March 23, 2025 • 38 mins
Special guest: Pamela Topjian
The Life Shift Rewind
I’m excited to share bonus episodes from Patreon, where I revisited past guests to discuss what has changed and the value of sharing their stories. Since I currently only have the lower tiers available, I wanted to make these conversations accessible to the public feed. If you'd like to support the show directly, please consider joining the $3 or $5 tier on Patreon – www.patreon.com/thelifeshiftpodcast.
Pamela Topjian joins us for this bonus episode, exploring the transformative power of storytelling and its role in healing. We discuss how sharing our narratives not only empowers us but also fosters connections with others who may relate to similar experiences. Pamela reflects on her own journey, highlighting how pivotal moments—like purchasing a bus ticket that changed her life—can often arise from seemingly small decisions. She emphasizes the importance of engaging in conversations that enable us to explore our past while looking toward the future. This honest chat serves as a reminder that everyone has a story worth sharing, and by doing so, we can inspire and support one another through life’s challenges.
Listen to Pamela's full episode: https://www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com/a-bus-ride-to-finding-hope-overcoming-childhood-trauma-to-start-anew-pamela-topjian/
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello my friends.
I just wanted to drop somespecial bonus episodes into the feed
that you probably have notheard unless you are a part or an
early part of the Patreon forthe Life Shift podcast.
If you don't know, I do have a Patreon.
It currently only has two tiers.
One is a three dollar a monthtier just to support what I'm doing,
(00:22):
helps cover production costs.
And then there's a five dollartier which will get you episodes
early and just the, I guess,warm fuzzies for help out with the
Life Shift podcast.
But I used to have other tierswhere people were so generous and
were offering additional moneyeach month to get bonus episodes
and possible winnings of Tshirts and all sorts of things.
(00:46):
And then I realized a couplemonths ago that I wasn't able to
deliver what I wanted to,especially for those of you that
were giving me the extra money.
So right now we're just kindof doing the early episodes.
You'll always get those.
So if you want to support theLife Shift podcast, please jump over
to patreon.comforward/thelifeshiftpod podcast and
you can find that information there.
(01:06):
But I come on here because Iwant to share a series of these bonus
episodes that I did early onin the Patreon journey.
There are like 20 plusepisodes in which I had bonus recordings
with previous guests.
So I would go back and wewould have a conversation about the
experience of sharing theirstory on the Life Shift podcast.
(01:28):
Catch up on anything.
And I think these are superimportant and I know most of them
did not see the light of dayfrom outside of the Patreon.
So I'm going to be droppingthese episodes.
Whatever you're listening tonow is another episode.
So I'm going to use the sameintro for all of them.
But here is one of the bonusepisodes with a former guest from
(01:49):
the Life Shift podcast.
And if you like this, let meknow because I'm thinking of bringing
some of this back and talkingto previous guests as I go into year
four.
So enjoy this bonus episodethat was once released on the Patreon
feed.
I'm Matt Gilhooley and this isthe Life Shift candid conversations
(02:10):
about the pivotal moments thathave changed lives forever.
Hello, my friends.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great, Matt.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for coming back andbeing willing to engage in the after
(02:34):
the recording conversations.
And I know you're familiarwith them because you are a Patreon
supporter and you do listen tothose and I actually Remember a couple
times where you were like, oh,I haven't heard that episode before,
but I heard their, theirfollow up and I want to go back and
listen.
Right, right, absolutely.
And, you know, so often we,whenever we listen or watch any P.O.
(02:58):
with somebody else, a lot oftimes a lot of people are like, I
wonder what's going on withthem now, or I wonder what happened
after.
And so that's so awesome thatyou do this, because I haven't heard
of others doing this, and Ithink it's.
Yeah, I think it's a really great.
Addition, if we're beinghonest here.
It's very selfish of mebecause I love to come back because,
you know, with the Life Shiftpodcast, these conversations, a lot
(03:22):
of them are really deep conversations.
Right.
And yours included.
And after the recording, eventhough it was only like an hour of
time together, I feel likewe're all connected now, you know,
or like I'm connected witheach person, so it's kind of just
like following up with an oldfriend, you know, even though technically
we only spent an hour together.
(03:43):
Right, right.
So.
And that was the same with you.
Yeah.
And, and you know, for methough, too.
And you know, we've mentionedthis before or, you know, on Twitter
and social media and am onethat likes to watch YouTube.
And so many people think ofpodcasts as just, you know, your
Spotify or your Apple or yourGoogle podcast, all of that, you
(04:05):
know, which is awesome.
And I totally understandpeople walking and doing other things
while they're listening, but Ireally like to look at somebody's
face when they're having aconversation, and that just might
be my age or it just might besomething with my brain that it connects
better, but I really like tosee that.
So the funny thing is, is Ifeel a little more because I watch
(04:27):
you every week in aconversation with somebody, so I
do feel a little bit of aconnection that way too.
Besides just being, you know,social media friends and having that
hour together, I'm alsowatching your conversations every
week.
I had a friend once say thatsometimes I talk back to you, Matt.
Oh, I do too.
(04:48):
I do too.
Not just you, but your guests.
Like, I'll have to stopsometimes and be like, can ponder
or, you know.
That's good.
Yeah, it is.
That's the power of storytelling.
I, I, when I make my videos, Imake them with you in mind because
I know that you're a regularwatcher and I really appreciate that.
Thank you.
(05:08):
Thank you.
I also know as a podcaster,that's kind of what we've been told
is the next thing that weshould be doing.
However, when I, when I lookat them, the faces that I make are
really not desirable.
Like, I just look.
(05:29):
You'Re just listening.
You're just listening.
But you know, and speaking ofthat, that's one thing that I noticed
when I, because I, you know, Iknow others have said this, that
they go back and watch theirepisode or listen again before they
do the follow up with you.
And so I did the same thingand I was a little surprised at my
expressions and how much I usemy hands.
(05:51):
And I'm sure you were like,man, her hands are all over in that
screen.
Didn't even notice.
And I'm not even any Italian,but my, I use my hands so much and
my expressions were kind ofcrazy too.
So it's just human.
Like you always say we're just human.
So.
Yeah, we are.
And you know, there we.
I was having a debate theother day with someone of like, is
(06:13):
it still a podcast if it's on YouTube?
I don't know.
But you know, I have theoption to do it and I do it and I
appreciate that you watch itand other people leave comments and
you leave comments and it'sjust really, really wonderful that
you are willing to kind of bea part of this community and just
seemingly like it.
(06:33):
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
Oh, well, thank you.
Thank you for this.
Absolutely.
I mean, it's.
These stories are so importantand one thing that I found that was
really, really kind ofsurprises me is that no matter what
the story is, no matter whatthe lifestyle is, the person, what
they've been through, whatthey haven't been through, whatever,
(06:56):
there's always something thatyou can relate with and isn't that,
I'm sure you have found that too.
That's really interesting.
It's like the human emotionsand just our human experience is
so much more connected than wethink, you know?
Yeah, I agree.
It's.
It's very interesting.
(07:17):
It's kind of this.
I, I think a lot of peoplehave this story too, where something,
even in your story, it wassomething someone said really that
kind of triggered something.
And the funny thing is a lotof times we could have heard that
thing a thousand times before that.
Right.
But it's like right moment,right time, and I think there's something
about listening to podcasts aswell, in which you hear something
(07:40):
on that particular.
In whatever kind of stateyou're in and it hits you in a way
that maybe it wouldn't havethree Months ago.
And so I agree.
We are far more connected andhave far more similarities than we
have differences.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that's what really strikesme with listening to all of them.
(08:01):
And even if there's one thatyou think, oh, I have absolutely
nothing in common with thisperson, the little blurb about what's
going on in their life or whattheir life shift is about or anything,
you know, I can't relate witheven in those.
Some of the feelings that theyhave had through some of it is really
(08:21):
relatable, and it's just interesting.
Yeah.
And I think, too, before we gointo your story, I think we naturally
resonate more with the storiesthat are not necessarily the same
story, but thematically connected.
So in my case, I personallyrelate more to stories that are an
(08:47):
external force or an externalsomething that was out of my control,
changed my life.
A lot of people have thesemore internal fires.
Like yours was a bit more inter.
It came from the inside to,like, make happen.
I mean, you had other externalthings that obviously changed your
life, but the one we talkedabout and the one we really dove
(09:09):
into was more of this internal fire.
And so I think we naturallykind of gravitate towards one or
the other.
But to your point, there's somuch that we can learn from each
other if we just listen.
I think that's kind of thewhole exercise here is just listen
to each other.
Right.
And to not feel so divided andso disconnected from everybody that
(09:29):
we maybe don't think we canrelate with.
Exactly.
So, you know, we were talkingbefore we recorded that.
We recorded your episode inDecember of 2022, and then your episode,
which was number 48 for anyonelistening, came out on February 7,
2023.
And that feels like it was areally long time ago at this point.
(09:53):
Yeah, it does.
And before we startedrecording, I said, a lot hasn't happened
since then, other than, youknow, I've started another book I'm
working on.
But in my episode, I barelyment mentioned the book.
And I realized because werecorded in December and it was published
in January.
So that's why.
I mean.
No, am I.
(10:14):
Am I mistaken?
No, you had your book out.
Your book.
Okay.
Because it was published.
So it's been out over a year now.
So I know it was January, thatit was.
Okay.
So it had been out a year.
Yeah.
You know, and.
And to be fair, I.
When I.
I have other people that havewritten books on the show and, you
know, like, this is.
I know your book is definitelyentwined with your life.
(10:34):
It Is your life.
It is my life.
Yeah.
But the show's not aboutbooks, right?
No.
And it's not about pluggingwhat you're doing either.
It's your story.
And a lot of times that.
Yeah, yeah.
And a lot of times a lot ofpeople are used to going on and sort
of, okay, I'm doing another plug.
Okay.
They want to hear about what Ihave out there or what I service,
(10:55):
I offer or whatever that else.
But a lot of times I noticed,too, that they're from maybe for
the first time, even thoughthey might be sort of, you know,
out there with whatever they do.
Even a lot of them have theirown podcasts, but this is the first
time they're really delvinginto their own story or bits of their
story that are really deep andreally in there.
(11:17):
And.
And that's, you know, you givethem the platform to.
To finally sort of just let itout if they, you know, whatever they're
comfortable letting out.
But, yeah, to tell their story.
Yeah.
How did you feel once westopped recording?
Like, you were.
We had the conversation.
You didn't really.
I mean, we didn't really knoweach other.
We had interacted a little biton Twitter, and then we came in and
(11:39):
you shared a really deep,personal story.
How did you feel after westopped recording?
It was one of the first onesthat I felt like I didn't get real
graphic.
So I had been on others, andit seems like almost some people
really like that shock value,and you didn't seem to be that way.
You wanted more of, like, youknow, you could tell the story and
(12:01):
you could really get a realgood idea of the story without getting
really kind of gross andgraphic, you know, and so it was
one of the first ones that Ithought, oh, this is one that I might
be able to share with my kids,you know, or other people, friends
or whatever, that it justseemed to be a little more smooth
(12:21):
and.
And on level, you know what I mean?
Not.
It didn't go way off.
You know, I don't know how toexplain that, but.
But yeah, it just didn't getso graphic, you know?
You know, discussing abuse or.
Or anything.
You know, I don't know thatthat was intentional on either of
our sides.
I think we were really havingthe conversation about, I mean, you.
(12:45):
To remind people your story.
I mean, we essentially saidthat you buying a bus ticket basically
saved your life and got youout of suicidal feelings and abuse
and toxic relationships andstruggling hardcore and really turned
your life around.
And so in that conversation, Ithink our Goal was really like, look
(13:08):
what's possible.
Right.
Look how we can reflect onsuch terrible.
No one should ever go throughthese times.
But also, look how I evolved.
Look how it's possible.
And I think that's probablywhy we didn't go down those graphic
pieces, because we werefocused on who you are now and how
(13:29):
those moments made you who youare now.
Yeah.
And another thing that you hadmentioned, and you were the first
one to mention this, and nowwhenever I see myself on others,
I notice it, too.
But how you said that you cantell from my expressions and the
way I talked that, the way Italked about my past compared to
my life now that it's just,you know, you could tell from looking
(13:52):
at me the difference in mylife and how I talk about it.
The level of your voice, too.
Yeah.
The way, like, I feel like the old.
It almost is the dark and the light.
I feel like when you tell yourstory of your upbringing and the
situations you were in in yourearly life and then your marriages
and all the pieces that camealong with that, it felt very dark
(14:15):
because it was.
But the way you delivered itwas also very.
Yeah.
Like, the sound of your.
Everything was dark about it.
And as soon as we startedtalking about current day Pamela,
like, and what you do and thejoy that you find in the things around
you and the things that you'recreating, it's a higher.
There's a higher pitch.
There's, you know, like, there's.
Yeah, there's just more joybehind it.
(14:37):
And so, I mean, that's.
That's awesome.
But it's also awesome that youdidn't even realize you were doing
that, because I think it saysa lot, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I loved that you mentionedit, because now I notice it, and
it's just like.
Well, yeah, of course.
But it's just.
It is.
It's kind of fun to see that the.
The evolution of.
Of our growth.
You know, I think it's.
I think it's important.
And that's kind of.
(14:59):
Sometimes I have guests that will.
Or people that want to beguests on the show, and you can tell
that they haven't yet reachedthe point in which they've reflected
enough on that moment and seehow it's changed them or even that
they've identified thatmoment, that specific moment.
And, you know, so with yourstory, it's like you were able to
(15:21):
pinpoint it and we were ableto see, like, the two different versions
of you.
Yeah.
And all that.
Yeah.
And that's another thing, too,is that with the, you know, you had
pointed out like that thephone call from the landlord, you
know, or, you know, I hadcalled them and them saying, can
you be out in two weeks?
Or you know, just my friendasking me, you know, maybe you want
(15:44):
to do that.
Just one little sentence.
And I know you have said thisin other ones, but one little sentence
or one tiny little thing canreally change your whole life.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe getting on the bus and going for
a three day ride or it doesn'thave to be some big moment like,
like a death in the family or something.
(16:04):
Sometimes it's these littlethings that really are life changing,
you know, and you don't reallythink of those things when you're
asked or when you think aboutwhat was a pivotal moment for me
in my life.
But yeah, definitely, it's afun exercise too.
I've also had interactionswith people before they come on the
show where I challenge them toreally try to pinpoint that.
(16:25):
Because truthfully, ithappened for me too, in the sense
that when I started the show,I really thought, okay, when my mom
died, it was right, that wasthe moment.
But it wasn't.
It was really when my dad satme down and was like, she's dead.
Because truthfully, she wasdead for like five hours and I was
still living the same lifebecause I didn't know.
Right.
(16:45):
It can be, as, you know, takenout of context.
It's a very innocuous, likemoment of someone just talking to
you.
It's a couple words.
Or the conversation with yourlandlord that was almost like your
freedom pass.
Like, yeah, all right, here'syour permission to get the hell out
of here and start anew.
How about when you listened tothe first.
To it the first time orwatched it?
(17:07):
I mostly focus on the times,like just now, all the ums and the
times I couldn't find thewording and, and things.
Wish I would have saiddifferently or like I said, my, my
hands were all over the place.
That's because you watch thevideo, if you listen to the audio,
you didn't have any ums.
I took them all out.
(17:29):
Well, good.
Thank you.
It had to be pretty hard foryou, so I apologize.
It's a natural thing.
And I noticed too, which is,which is interesting.
When people are getting deepin their story, in their own personal
story, there's far more fillerwords because they're.
I think they're searching, Ithink they're looking around in that
experience to find the wordsthat accurately depict what that
(17:54):
Experience was like.
So I noticed that because I'llhave people that are seasoned presenters
that can sell whatever, zerofiller words.
Right.
But as soon as they get intosomething that is very personal,
it's a lot of ums or like, youknow, those kind of things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(18:14):
So I noticed that the life ofbeing a human.
Yeah.
And I.
Whenever I'm on one of anypodcast, I'm always very critical
the first time I listen.
Like, I don't.
When I first did a First.
The first few that I did, Iwanted to listen right away.
And I was like, I couldn't doanything else but listen.
You know, like, I had to hangup and I had to listen.
(18:36):
Or like as soon as I got it, Ihad to listen.
But then it's like I have tobe in the right mindset.
It's like I want to now I haveto wait a little while.
I still haven't listened to that.
I'll say to myself, I got tolisten to that.
I'm almost afraid because Iknow I'm going to be very critical
of just.
Did I say that correctly?
Did that come across right or.
You know, I'm searching forwords sometimes that I would.
(18:58):
If I was in a conversationjust with a friend or with my husband,
I would just.
It would just come out, butyou can't find it sometimes when
you're, you know, talking tosomebody on camera or even.
Did you.
Was there anything you saidthat kind of surprised you on the
listen back?
Yeah, I.
Yours was the first one that Imentioned about how I hid, you know,
(19:20):
like E.T.
like you said, which.
Which really.
That's all I pictured.
It still just cracks me upbecause it's.
It is what it.
What it was.
But yours is the first onethat I sort of said that out loud.
And I think that that is in my book.
I'm not 100% positive if iteven is, but that's a part of my
(19:41):
childhood, a part of me thatwas, I don't want to say ashamed,
but it seemed so odd.
It seemed like such an oddbehavior that I kind of just never
really said it out loud or itseemed so.
It seemed so odd, but it alsoseemed kind of really small.
Like, this is something that Idid when I was little.
I hid and I hid in the treeand I just was, as you said, you
(20:05):
know, blending in with my surroundings.
Like I didn't exist, really,almost, which is very sad, you know.
And that's another thing.
Listening back is trying tolisten back after the first time
of Listening back andlistening again.
I felt a little more for herthan I did.
I wasn't critiquing myself anymore.
(20:25):
It had been out a while, andI'm like, you know, I could feel
the emotions more so than whenI was telling it.
You shared parts that wereimportant, I think, because as kids,
when we have childhood trauma,I think sometimes we absorb, like,
we almost take, like, shame orblame for that or, like, some kind
of weird, like.
(20:46):
But all of that was out of our control.
We were just doing what wecould to feel safe, as safe as possible.
And in your case, blending inand not standing out might have been
the safest route for thatlittle version of you.
You know, I think it's alwaysinteresting, though, like, because
in conversations that arerecorded now, we can know, like,
(21:07):
what rabbit hole we actuallywent down, whereas in a regular conversation,
we don't have that recorded.
And sometimes I'll be like,oh, wow, I said that out loud.
And I don't think I've eversaid that out loud before in that
way.
And now it makes a little bitmore sense.
Exactly.
And it's almost a goodexercise in reflection for your guests.
You know, they can listen back and.
(21:27):
Yeah.
If they haven't told it before.
Yeah.
So what's changed since.
Since we recorded in your.
In your life?
Well, I'm still.
You know, I was takingclasses, so I'm getting closer to
done, which is very exciting.
I have.
January 24th is my first.
Is my last class.
Awesome.
(21:47):
Yeah.
And I don't know how life willchange after that.
I think that I'm, you know,I'm going to totally revamp my business
and that.
I mean, I have to, with allI've learned, but I don't know what
that looks like, so I'm kindof waiting for that to show itself
to me.
But I've started writing asecond book, and it's actually almost
(22:08):
done.
My goal for that is January24th, and that's just on the nursing
career, which is another thingthat when we talked, it was just
like, just a little blip inthere, but it wasn't a big part of.
I didn't realize, I think, howmuch of my life really was being
(22:28):
a nurse.
And in my book, there's stillnot a whole lot about it.
In my own.
My other book, people haveasked me more about that, and I thought,
you know what?
I can write a whole memoir onmy nursing career and why I quit
that and how I went aboutquitting that, and then segue at
the end of the book.
Into, you know, hypnotherapy,what I do now.
(22:51):
So that's probably the biggestthing that's changed or that's different.
That wasn't even in there whenwe talked.
I mean, I know we brieflymentioned it and I always thought.
And this.
If you can tell me if I'mtotally wrong, but I often see there
are a lot of people in thenursing profession that put all the
(23:13):
energy in taking care ofsomeone else and very little energy
in taking care of themselvesand doing things to protect themselves.
And I would imagine that youmight have done some of that.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It was very.
I think, which is not a badthing, but it's also a bad thing.
You know, like, it's like,it's great.
You're helping other people, but.
(23:35):
Right.
It was a good thing thoughtoo, that you, it gave you purpose,
it gives you something to do,you know, when you're feeling like,
you know, you don't know whatis going on in your life, you know,
when it feels so out ofcontrol, that's one piece that you
feel like, okay, I'm on thejob, I know what to do.
I can help this person, personwith this.
(23:55):
I can read these doctor's orders.
I can, you know, I know whateverything means and I can just go
and do it.
You know, just having thatconfidence in something and you know,
just the ability.
Yeah, but I mean, save lives.
Well, yeah, I mean savepeople, we hope.
Yeah.
Right.
Or like help people feelbetter in some way.
(24:15):
Right, yeah, helping peoplefeel better in some way and more
so.
I mean, I was never any kind of.
Of life saving nurse I was in.
I never worked in any kind ofER or anything.
I was mostly Alzheimer's andhome health.
That's a big lift.
That's a big important lift aswell because there's a lot of challenges
that come with that.
(24:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, that is.
I'm glad to hear it because I know.
I don't think you weren't.
I don't think you were workingon that, that second book by the.
When we started recording.
I don't think I was either.
And I think it was kind of anidea that you were percolating like
on Twitter and you're like,I'm thinking about this.
And then you kind of made itthing and so good for you putting,
putting that stuff into action.
(24:56):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome.
I know you listen to a lot orwatch a lot of the episodes.
Are there any types of storiesthat you resonate with more or any
that stand out to you thatwere like.
Oh, so I.
I don't.
You know, it's hard to.
Since I listen to them all andI listen to other podcasts as well.
It's hard to remember exactlywhich ones and that.
(25:16):
But I know that, like, theChristy Olinger with the journaling
and reading her brother's bookand that and her talking about parenting
being so hard and how we don'ttalk about it, that was really.
That really stuck out to me.
I felt like I had nobody in myparenting either, you know, and then
journaling is something alsothat's very important in my life
(25:38):
and how my first book started.
So that one really stuck outto me.
And plus, I don't knowsomething about her.
And just.
I mean, I would suggest peoplewatch more than maybe they do, because
I don't.
You probably got this fromher, too, or.
I don't know, were you guysfriends before or something?
I was on their podcast.
Okay.
But that was really the secondtime that I had spoken to her.
(26:00):
Okay.
Because there's somethingabout the way she looks and the way
she talks.
It's just.
She's just enjoyable to watch,you know, so it's just very.
Well, it's a good thing she'sin communications.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
There you go.
Yes.
Yeah.
And you know what'sinteresting about that episode?
That's one in which I didn'tresonate with personally because
(26:25):
it's just not something that'sin my practice.
It's not something that I.
It's not really related towhat my life shift was, kind of like,
how it.
How it triggered me.
But I got so many messagesbehind the scenes about her episode
and how people wanted to startjournaling or they needed to shed
these bad habits or do these things.
(26:46):
And so it goes all the wayback to what you were saying first.
You just don't realize how youknow somebody's story, even if it's
not your same experience.
They might not be parents.
They might not be doing whatever.
Something can connect with youat the right moment to.
To.
To connect with you.
So I don't know why I justsaid connect and connect.
But, you know what I'm sayingis that you never know what piece
(27:08):
of someone's story is goingto, like, ding, you know, something
go off in your brain.
So, yeah, that episode wasvery, very popular for a lot of people.
And then Daniel Rinaldi abouthis brother, and it kind of made
me realize, I don't.
I don't know that I've reallygrieved so much for my sister, how
(27:31):
much I've given thought to that.
That really made me realize hehad a whole bunch around his brother
passing, and I had lost asister as a teenager.
And I don't really.
I don't know if I need moretherapy around that or I.
I think there's somethingstill in me that hasn't.
I haven't really grieved about it.
(27:52):
You know, I was never giventhat opportunity as a kid, you know,
and so many other things comeup that were, you know, almost pushed
it down.
Yeah, that pushed it down, exactly.
So that one was, you know,something that really struck me.
A little trigger.
Yeah, a little trigger andanother little trigger.
And I don't know who said it.
(28:13):
And I was kind of searchingaround, and I thought it was Beth
Booker, but it might not havebeen her.
But somebody was talking aboutthe grief of miscarriage and how
it's something that we don'ttalk about too much because having
a miscarriage, especiallyearly on, is really very common,
(28:34):
and everybody knows that it'sthe body's way of expelling something
that's not going to developnormally anyway.
And it's.
You know, it is what it is.
But once you know, you'repregnant, whether it was intentional
or not, it's still a loss, andyou still feel that.
And that was something, too, that.
(28:55):
I don't know that I.
I know that.
I mention it in my book, and Iknow that it was.
I mean, thank goodness I didnot have a baby with that man, you
know, my second husband.
But at the same time, it does hurt.
It hurts you.
It's a.
It's a grieving, and it's a loss.
And so somebody had broughtthat and said, you know, that's something
(29:16):
we need to talk about, becauseall these women are feeling this,
and they just don't talk aboutit because it's not really.
It doesn't seem like it's thatbig of a thing because it's so common,
but it is.
It's still.
Yeah.
And it's also.
I think there's a lot ofsocietal shame about it where there
shouldn't be.
Right.
Because I think that, youknow, people are afraid to tell people
(29:39):
it happened because they thinkit's like something they did or something,
you know, like to be blamed for.
And I don't know who said it either.
I know Beth talked a lot abouthow new mothers feel and thinking
about, like, sometimes it'sreally, like, terrible those first.
Right.
Couple months, just the wayyou feel as a human, whether that's
(30:01):
Physically, emotionally, allof it.
And I know in her, she waslike, you just like, your baby's
cute, but how are you.
Right.
Like, really thinking aboutthe mother in that sense.
But I don't.
I'm not.
I'd have to go back and lookand see who said that specific.
She may have said that as well.
But I think you're right.
I mean, I think that is kindof why the life shift exists.
(30:22):
I think we, you know, we wantto share things that are so common,
but I think a lot of timeswe're just, like, ashamed because
society has told us that we shouldn't.
We should only talk about thegood things and the things that.
The awards that we win and thepromotions that we get.
But.
But that's not what connects us.
You know, it's these.
(30:42):
It's these tougher moments.
I had early.
Early on, I had a guest,Lauren, who talks about her journey
through infertility and thechallenges and how much shame she
felt.
And this was like, the firsttime she had talked to someone outside
of her immediate family about it.
And since then, she's felt somuch like, confidence and she's found
(31:06):
her voice, and she feels.
She even went to her company'sHR and got family help for, like,
the rest of the company, youknow, and because just sharing your
story and so I think the powerof storytelling is really strong.
Do you feel a strength in whenyou tell your story now?
Now that you've told itmultiple times in many different
(31:28):
ways?
I feel like every time I do,it's another opportunity for somebody
who needs to hear it, to hear it.
And I do feel a little moreconfident in being able to share
it with some expression.
Like, I remember some of thefirst few times I did, it was very
much like almost like rotememory, like just blah, blah, blah,
(31:50):
blah, blah.
This happened, this happened,this happened.
And there was a couple peoplethat said to me, you know, that were,
like, shocked at some of it.
And I was just, like, goingover, like, a list and not really
allowing myself to even feelit while with talking with somebody.
And I think I'm getting alittle better at that.
So that's.
(32:11):
That's one difference, Ithink, in telling it.
And I think there.
That's probably common forpeople that have experienced things
that you've experienced that,you know, you kind of try to make
it as bulleted of a list aspossible to just kind of get through
the conversation because it'sa lot harder to sometimes live in
(32:32):
that space if you haven't fully.
I Don't think you ever fully.
But if you haven't, like,processed it enough that you feel
confident in visiting but notgetting stuck back there, because
there's, you know, if you'veever had any kind of depression or
something like that, you know,how easily you could very well get
(32:53):
stuck back in there.
And so I think there is aprotection that comes with that.
So that makes sense.
Right.
And I've had people say to methat they had, like, in reading the
book or listening to one ofthe podcasts, they would say, I had
to take a break.
Like they were.
That.
I don't know if it's moved or,you know, felt.
(33:16):
I don't want to say bad forme, but they were just.
Empathy.
Yeah, it's empathy, I guess.
Yeah.
And they just kind of werelike, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize,
you know, and it's amazingthat you're just living and living
well, but I don't.
And then I don't.
I didn't realize how much itwas until I started telling my story,
(33:38):
you know, even through goingthrough therapy and hearing all those
words of neglect and PTSD andhearing those words from the therapist
and realizing so much from thechildhood, I still didn't.
Didn't realize that it wasthat big of a deal, you know?
Well, I.
I found this experience aswell, of, like, there aren't too
(34:02):
many opportunities in which wehave a chance to tell our story without
interruption from someone thatwas there from beginning to end.
Right.
And I think when you do that,you're like, oh, you know, like,
even in a therapy session,you're probably just telling a chunk.
You're probably just telling,like, at this point, to this point,
(34:22):
it's not, you know, and sothat seems, like, terrible, but manageable.
But if you.
But telling that story frombeginning and going and this happened
and this happened, then youstart to realize, oh, it is a big
deal.
And, you know, I think.
I think it's wonderful to seethat you took your power back and
you, you know, you arecreating the life that you want to
(34:44):
live.
And I'm sure it's not perfect in.
In certain ways, and, youknow, but that's life, too.
Yeah.
But at the same time, you'rethings on your own terms now and
creating the things that youwant to do.
You're now part of this LifeShift Community 1 in Patreon, and
I super appreciate that.
But just being a part of thisjourney for me, if there's someone
(35:04):
out there that's like, I kindof want I don't know.
Is there anything that youcould say to someone that maybe is
on the fence about sharingtheir story or just like trusting
me with their story oranything like that?
Yeah.
So I think that, that, youknow, it's said so often, and you
have said it so often, but itreally needs to be, you know, put
out there that there is a lotof power in telling your story.
(35:26):
There is a lot that would comefrom it, from within you that you
don't even realize.
It's not only empowering, butit's reflective and that's so important.
You gain so much of your ownself discovery through reflecting
on your own story.
And people.
I know people will say, youknow, I don't need to hash out my
(35:48):
whole past.
And.
But it's not like that.
You know, it's more of aconversation about it, getting it
out of you so it doesn't getstuck in there like I was talking
about the grief of my sister.
It's stuck in there.
I know it is.
And you have to get thesethings out of you to process them
a little better.
And sometimes just having thiscasual conversation.
(36:08):
And as far as the Life Shiftpodcast, you are such a person, and
I know others have said thistoo, and I also know that you don't
take compliments well, but,you know, you do definitely have
this very soothing way about you.
Like, it's almost like itcould be a counseling session.
It's almost like just havingsomebody to listen and you do, you
(36:31):
know, genuinely care and thatcomes across.
And I think that for yourpodcast especially, that's something
that is an experience initself that not.
You might not get with other podcasts.
You know, I appreciate that.
Yes, I'm terrible atcompliments, but I will accept that.
And thank you.
(36:51):
I think there is somethingabout everyone's story or having
these conversations thatsomehow heals a little part of me
that I didn't realize neededthat healing.
And so this journey, like Isaid, even these Patreon bonus episodes
are little bit selfish.
Like, there is a little bit ofselfish piece to having these conversations.
(37:13):
I hope that other people areinspired to have these conversations
with the people around them,because I think the deeper the conversations
and the more real we are witheach other, I think the better experience
we're going to have as a whole.
Right?
Absolutely.
And I think it opens that upfor other people to know that you
can have these conversations.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
Well, thank you for being apart of the Life Shift podcast, being
(37:37):
a part of the Patreoncommunity If you are listening to
this bonus episode and youhaven't heard Pamela's story, Check
out episode 48 to listen to that.
And I'm sure she would love toconnect with you on social media,
so we'll include those in thein the information as well.
Thank you for for doing this, though.
Thank you.
(37:57):
Thank you.
Was it as scary as you thoughtit might be?
No, no, of course not.
All right.
And everyone listening, we'llbe back in a weeks with another after
the recording Patreon bonus episode.
Thanks again, Pamela.
(38:24):
For more information, pleasevisit www.thelife shift podcast.com.
Hello my friends.
I just wanted to drop somespecial bonus episodes into the feed
that you probably have notheard unless you are a part or an
early part of the Patreon forthe Life Shift podcast.
If you don't know, I do have a Patreon.
It currently only has two tiers.
One is a three dollar a monthtier just to support what I'm doing,
(00:22):
helps cover production costs.
And then there's a five dollartier which will get you episodes
early and just the, I guess,warm fuzzies for help out with the
Life Shift podcast.
But I used to have other tierswhere people were so generous and
were offering additional moneyeach month to get bonus episodes
and possible winnings of Tshirts and all sorts of things.
(00:46):
And then I realized a couplemonths ago that I wasn't able to
deliver what I wanted to,especially for those of you that
were giving me the extra money.
So right now we're just kindof doing the early episodes.
You'll always get those.
So if you want to support theLife Shift podcast, please jump over
to patreon.comforward/thelifeshiftpod podcast and
you can find that information there.
(01:06):
But I come on here because Iwant to share a series of these bonus
episodes that I did early onin the Patreon journey.
There are like 20 plusepisodes in which I had bonus recordings
with previous guests.
So I would go back and wewould have a conversation about the
experience of sharing theirstory on the Life Shift podcast.
(01:28):
Catch up on anything.
And I think these are superimportant and I know most of them
did not see the light of dayfrom outside of the Patreon.
So I'm going to be droppingthese episodes.
Whatever you're listening tonow is another episode.
So I'm going to use the sameintro for all of them.
But here is one of the bonusepisodes with a former guest from
(01:49):
the Life Shift podcast.
And if you like this, let meknow because I'm thinking of bringing
some of this back and talkingto previous guests as I go into year
four.
So enjoy this bonus episodethat was once released on the Patreon
feed.
I'm Matt Gilhooley and this isthe Life Shift candid conversations
(02:10):
about the pivotal moments thathave changed lives forever.
Hello, my friends.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing great, Matt.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for coming back andbeing willing to engage in the after
(02:34):
the recording conversations.
And I know you're familiarwith them because you are a Patreon
supporter and you do listen tothose and I actually Remember a couple
times where you were like, oh,I haven't heard that episode before,
but I heard their, theirfollow up and I want to go back and
listen.
Right, right, absolutely.
And, you know, so often we,whenever we listen or watch any P.O.
(02:58):
with somebody else, a lot oftimes a lot of people are like, I
wonder what's going on withthem now, or I wonder what happened
after.
And so that's so awesome thatyou do this, because I haven't heard
of others doing this, and Ithink it's.
Yeah, I think it's a really great.
Addition, if we're beinghonest here.
It's very selfish of mebecause I love to come back because,
you know, with the Life Shiftpodcast, these conversations, a lot
(03:22):
of them are really deep conversations.
Right.
And yours included.
And after the recording, eventhough it was only like an hour of
time together, I feel likewe're all connected now, you know,
or like I'm connected witheach person, so it's kind of just
like following up with an oldfriend, you know, even though technically
we only spent an hour together.
(03:43):
Right, right.
So.
And that was the same with you.
Yeah.
And, and you know, for methough, too.
And you know, we've mentionedthis before or, you know, on Twitter
and social media and am onethat likes to watch YouTube.
And so many people think ofpodcasts as just, you know, your
Spotify or your Apple or yourGoogle podcast, all of that, you
(04:05):
know, which is awesome.
And I totally understandpeople walking and doing other things
while they're listening, but Ireally like to look at somebody's
face when they're having aconversation, and that just might
be my age or it just might besomething with my brain that it connects
better, but I really like tosee that.
So the funny thing is, is Ifeel a little more because I watch
(04:27):
you every week in aconversation with somebody, so I
do feel a little bit of aconnection that way too.
Besides just being, you know,social media friends and having that
hour together, I'm alsowatching your conversations every
week.
I had a friend once say thatsometimes I talk back to you, Matt.
Oh, I do too.
(04:48):
I do too.
Not just you, but your guests.
Like, I'll have to stopsometimes and be like, can ponder
or, you know.
That's good.
Yeah, it is.
That's the power of storytelling.
I, I, when I make my videos, Imake them with you in mind because
I know that you're a regularwatcher and I really appreciate that.
Thank you.
(05:08):
Thank you.
I also know as a podcaster,that's kind of what we've been told
is the next thing that weshould be doing.
However, when I, when I lookat them, the faces that I make are
really not desirable.
Like, I just look.
(05:29):
You'Re just listening.
You're just listening.
But you know, and speaking ofthat, that's one thing that I noticed
when I, because I, you know, Iknow others have said this, that
they go back and watch theirepisode or listen again before they
do the follow up with you.
And so I did the same thingand I was a little surprised at my
expressions and how much I usemy hands.
(05:51):
And I'm sure you were like,man, her hands are all over in that
screen.
Didn't even notice.
And I'm not even any Italian,but my, I use my hands so much and
my expressions were kind ofcrazy too.
So it's just human.
Like you always say we're just human.
So.
Yeah, we are.
And you know, there we.
I was having a debate theother day with someone of like, is
(06:13):
it still a podcast if it's on YouTube?
I don't know.
But you know, I have theoption to do it and I do it and I
appreciate that you watch itand other people leave comments and
you leave comments and it'sjust really, really wonderful that
you are willing to kind of bea part of this community and just
seemingly like it.
(06:33):
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
Oh, well, thank you.
Thank you for this.
Absolutely.
I mean, it's.
These stories are so importantand one thing that I found that was
really, really kind ofsurprises me is that no matter what
the story is, no matter whatthe lifestyle is, the person, what
they've been through, whatthey haven't been through, whatever,
(06:56):
there's always something thatyou can relate with and isn't that,
I'm sure you have found that too.
That's really interesting.
It's like the human emotionsand just our human experience is
so much more connected than wethink, you know?
Yeah, I agree.
It's.
It's very interesting.
(07:17):
It's kind of this.
I, I think a lot of peoplehave this story too, where something,
even in your story, it wassomething someone said really that
kind of triggered something.
And the funny thing is a lotof times we could have heard that
thing a thousand times before that.
Right.
But it's like right moment,right time, and I think there's something
about listening to podcasts aswell, in which you hear something
(07:40):
on that particular.
In whatever kind of stateyou're in and it hits you in a way
that maybe it wouldn't havethree Months ago.
And so I agree.
We are far more connected andhave far more similarities than we
have differences.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that's what really strikesme with listening to all of them.
(08:01):
And even if there's one thatyou think, oh, I have absolutely
nothing in common with thisperson, the little blurb about what's
going on in their life or whattheir life shift is about or anything,
you know, I can't relate witheven in those.
Some of the feelings that theyhave had through some of it is really
(08:21):
relatable, and it's just interesting.
Yeah.
And I think, too, before we gointo your story, I think we naturally
resonate more with the storiesthat are not necessarily the same
story, but thematically connected.
So in my case, I personallyrelate more to stories that are an
(08:47):
external force or an externalsomething that was out of my control,
changed my life.
A lot of people have thesemore internal fires.
Like yours was a bit more inter.
It came from the inside to,like, make happen.
I mean, you had other externalthings that obviously changed your
life, but the one we talkedabout and the one we really dove
(09:09):
into was more of this internal fire.
And so I think we naturallykind of gravitate towards one or
the other.
But to your point, there's somuch that we can learn from each
other if we just listen.
I think that's kind of thewhole exercise here is just listen
to each other.
Right.
And to not feel so divided andso disconnected from everybody that
(09:29):
we maybe don't think we canrelate with.
Exactly.
So, you know, we were talkingbefore we recorded that.
We recorded your episode inDecember of 2022, and then your episode,
which was number 48 for anyonelistening, came out on February 7,
2023.
And that feels like it was areally long time ago at this point.
(09:53):
Yeah, it does.
And before we startedrecording, I said, a lot hasn't happened
since then, other than, youknow, I've started another book I'm
working on.
But in my episode, I barelyment mentioned the book.
And I realized because werecorded in December and it was published
in January.
So that's why.
I mean.
No, am I.
(10:14):
Am I mistaken?
No, you had your book out.
Your book.
Okay.
Because it was published.
So it's been out over a year now.
So I know it was January, thatit was.
Okay.
So it had been out a year.
Yeah.
You know, and.
And to be fair, I.
When I.
I have other people that havewritten books on the show and, you
know, like, this is.
I know your book is definitelyentwined with your life.
(10:34):
It Is your life.
It is my life.
Yeah.
But the show's not aboutbooks, right?
No.
And it's not about pluggingwhat you're doing either.
It's your story.
And a lot of times that.
Yeah, yeah.
And a lot of times a lot ofpeople are used to going on and sort
of, okay, I'm doing another plug.
Okay.
They want to hear about what Ihave out there or what I service,
(10:55):
I offer or whatever that else.
But a lot of times I noticed,too, that they're from maybe for
the first time, even thoughthey might be sort of, you know,
out there with whatever they do.
Even a lot of them have theirown podcasts, but this is the first
time they're really delvinginto their own story or bits of their
story that are really deep andreally in there.
(11:17):
And.
And that's, you know, you givethem the platform to.
To finally sort of just let itout if they, you know, whatever they're
comfortable letting out.
But, yeah, to tell their story.
Yeah.
How did you feel once westopped recording?
Like, you were.
We had the conversation.
You didn't really.
I mean, we didn't really knoweach other.
We had interacted a little biton Twitter, and then we came in and
(11:39):
you shared a really deep,personal story.
How did you feel after westopped recording?
It was one of the first onesthat I felt like I didn't get real
graphic.
So I had been on others, andit seems like almost some people
really like that shock value,and you didn't seem to be that way.
You wanted more of, like, youknow, you could tell the story and
(12:01):
you could really get a realgood idea of the story without getting
really kind of gross andgraphic, you know, and so it was
one of the first ones that Ithought, oh, this is one that I might
be able to share with my kids,you know, or other people, friends
or whatever, that it justseemed to be a little more smooth
(12:21):
and.
And on level, you know what I mean?
Not.
It didn't go way off.
You know, I don't know how toexplain that, but.
But yeah, it just didn't getso graphic, you know?
You know, discussing abuse or.
Or anything.
You know, I don't know thatthat was intentional on either of
our sides.
I think we were really havingthe conversation about, I mean, you.
(12:45):
To remind people your story.
I mean, we essentially saidthat you buying a bus ticket basically
saved your life and got youout of suicidal feelings and abuse
and toxic relationships andstruggling hardcore and really turned
your life around.
And so in that conversation, Ithink our Goal was really like, look
(13:08):
what's possible.
Right.
Look how we can reflect onsuch terrible.
No one should ever go throughthese times.
But also, look how I evolved.
Look how it's possible.
And I think that's probablywhy we didn't go down those graphic
pieces, because we werefocused on who you are now and how
(13:29):
those moments made you who youare now.
Yeah.
And another thing that you hadmentioned, and you were the first
one to mention this, and nowwhenever I see myself on others,
I notice it, too.
But how you said that you cantell from my expressions and the
way I talked that, the way Italked about my past compared to
my life now that it's just,you know, you could tell from looking
(13:52):
at me the difference in mylife and how I talk about it.
The level of your voice, too.
Yeah.
The way, like, I feel like the old.
It almost is the dark and the light.
I feel like when you tell yourstory of your upbringing and the
situations you were in in yourearly life and then your marriages
and all the pieces that camealong with that, it felt very dark
(14:15):
because it was.
But the way you delivered itwas also very.
Yeah.
Like, the sound of your.
Everything was dark about it.
And as soon as we startedtalking about current day Pamela,
like, and what you do and thejoy that you find in the things around
you and the things that you'recreating, it's a higher.
There's a higher pitch.
There's, you know, like, there's.
Yeah, there's just more joybehind it.
(14:37):
And so, I mean, that's.
That's awesome.
But it's also awesome that youdidn't even realize you were doing
that, because I think it saysa lot, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I loved that you mentionedit, because now I notice it, and
it's just like.
Well, yeah, of course.
But it's just.
It is.
It's kind of fun to see that the.
The evolution of.
Of our growth.
You know, I think it's.
I think it's important.
And that's kind of.
(14:59):
Sometimes I have guests that will.
Or people that want to beguests on the show, and you can tell
that they haven't yet reachedthe point in which they've reflected
enough on that moment and seehow it's changed them or even that
they've identified thatmoment, that specific moment.
And, you know, so with yourstory, it's like you were able to
(15:21):
pinpoint it and we were ableto see, like, the two different versions
of you.
Yeah.
And all that.
Yeah.
And that's another thing, too,is that with the, you know, you had
pointed out like that thephone call from the landlord, you
know, or, you know, I hadcalled them and them saying, can
you be out in two weeks?
Or you know, just my friendasking me, you know, maybe you want
(15:44):
to do that.
Just one little sentence.
And I know you have said thisin other ones, but one little sentence
or one tiny little thing canreally change your whole life.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe getting on the bus and going for
a three day ride or it doesn'thave to be some big moment like,
like a death in the family or something.
(16:04):
Sometimes it's these littlethings that really are life changing,
you know, and you don't reallythink of those things when you're
asked or when you think aboutwhat was a pivotal moment for me
in my life.
But yeah, definitely, it's afun exercise too.
I've also had interactionswith people before they come on the
show where I challenge them toreally try to pinpoint that.
(16:25):
Because truthfully, ithappened for me too, in the sense
that when I started the show,I really thought, okay, when my mom
died, it was right, that wasthe moment.
But it wasn't.
It was really when my dad satme down and was like, she's dead.
Because truthfully, she wasdead for like five hours and I was
still living the same lifebecause I didn't know.
Right.
(16:45):
It can be, as, you know, takenout of context.
It's a very innocuous, likemoment of someone just talking to
you.
It's a couple words.
Or the conversation with yourlandlord that was almost like your
freedom pass.
Like, yeah, all right, here'syour permission to get the hell out
of here and start anew.
How about when you listened tothe first.
To it the first time orwatched it?
(17:07):
I mostly focus on the times,like just now, all the ums and the
times I couldn't find thewording and, and things.
Wish I would have saiddifferently or like I said, my, my
hands were all over the place.
That's because you watch thevideo, if you listen to the audio,
you didn't have any ums.
I took them all out.
(17:29):
Well, good.
Thank you.
It had to be pretty hard foryou, so I apologize.
It's a natural thing.
And I noticed too, which is,which is interesting.
When people are getting deepin their story, in their own personal
story, there's far more fillerwords because they're.
I think they're searching, Ithink they're looking around in that
experience to find the wordsthat accurately depict what that
(17:54):
Experience was like.
So I noticed that because I'llhave people that are seasoned presenters
that can sell whatever, zerofiller words.
Right.
But as soon as they get intosomething that is very personal,
it's a lot of ums or like, youknow, those kind of things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(18:14):
So I noticed that the life ofbeing a human.
Yeah.
And I.
Whenever I'm on one of anypodcast, I'm always very critical
the first time I listen.
Like, I don't.
When I first did a First.
The first few that I did, Iwanted to listen right away.
And I was like, I couldn't doanything else but listen.
You know, like, I had to hangup and I had to listen.
(18:36):
Or like as soon as I got it, Ihad to listen.
But then it's like I have tobe in the right mindset.
It's like I want to now I haveto wait a little while.
I still haven't listened to that.
I'll say to myself, I got tolisten to that.
I'm almost afraid because Iknow I'm going to be very critical
of just.
Did I say that correctly?
Did that come across right or.
You know, I'm searching forwords sometimes that I would.
(18:58):
If I was in a conversationjust with a friend or with my husband,
I would just.
It would just come out, butyou can't find it sometimes when
you're, you know, talking tosomebody on camera or even.
Did you.
Was there anything you saidthat kind of surprised you on the
listen back?
Yeah, I.
Yours was the first one that Imentioned about how I hid, you know,
(19:20):
like E.T.
like you said, which.
Which really.
That's all I pictured.
It still just cracks me upbecause it's.
It is what it.
What it was.
But yours is the first onethat I sort of said that out loud.
And I think that that is in my book.
I'm not 100% positive if iteven is, but that's a part of my
(19:41):
childhood, a part of me thatwas, I don't want to say ashamed,
but it seemed so odd.
It seemed like such an oddbehavior that I kind of just never
really said it out loud or itseemed so.
It seemed so odd, but it alsoseemed kind of really small.
Like, this is something that Idid when I was little.
I hid and I hid in the treeand I just was, as you said, you
(20:05):
know, blending in with my surroundings.
Like I didn't exist, really,almost, which is very sad, you know.
And that's another thing.
Listening back is trying tolisten back after the first time
of Listening back andlistening again.
I felt a little more for herthan I did.
I wasn't critiquing myself anymore.
(20:25):
It had been out a while, andI'm like, you know, I could feel
the emotions more so than whenI was telling it.
You shared parts that wereimportant, I think, because as kids,
when we have childhood trauma,I think sometimes we absorb, like,
we almost take, like, shame orblame for that or, like, some kind
of weird, like.
(20:46):
But all of that was out of our control.
We were just doing what wecould to feel safe, as safe as possible.
And in your case, blending inand not standing out might have been
the safest route for thatlittle version of you.
You know, I think it's alwaysinteresting, though, like, because
in conversations that arerecorded now, we can know, like,
(21:07):
what rabbit hole we actuallywent down, whereas in a regular conversation,
we don't have that recorded.
And sometimes I'll be like,oh, wow, I said that out loud.
And I don't think I've eversaid that out loud before in that
way.
And now it makes a little bitmore sense.
Exactly.
And it's almost a goodexercise in reflection for your guests.
You know, they can listen back and.
(21:27):
Yeah.
If they haven't told it before.
Yeah.
So what's changed since.
Since we recorded in your.
In your life?
Well, I'm still.
You know, I was takingclasses, so I'm getting closer to
done, which is very exciting.
I have.
January 24th is my first.
Is my last class.
Awesome.
(21:47):
Yeah.
And I don't know how life willchange after that.
I think that I'm, you know,I'm going to totally revamp my business
and that.
I mean, I have to, with allI've learned, but I don't know what
that looks like, so I'm kindof waiting for that to show itself
to me.
But I've started writing asecond book, and it's actually almost
(22:08):
done.
My goal for that is January24th, and that's just on the nursing
career, which is another thingthat when we talked, it was just
like, just a little blip inthere, but it wasn't a big part of.
I didn't realize, I think, howmuch of my life really was being
(22:28):
a nurse.
And in my book, there's stillnot a whole lot about it.
In my own.
My other book, people haveasked me more about that, and I thought,
you know what?
I can write a whole memoir onmy nursing career and why I quit
that and how I went aboutquitting that, and then segue at
the end of the book.
Into, you know, hypnotherapy,what I do now.
(22:51):
So that's probably the biggestthing that's changed or that's different.
That wasn't even in there whenwe talked.
I mean, I know we brieflymentioned it and I always thought.
And this.
If you can tell me if I'mtotally wrong, but I often see there
are a lot of people in thenursing profession that put all the
(23:13):
energy in taking care ofsomeone else and very little energy
in taking care of themselvesand doing things to protect themselves.
And I would imagine that youmight have done some of that.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It was very.
I think, which is not a badthing, but it's also a bad thing.
You know, like, it's like,it's great.
You're helping other people, but.
(23:35):
Right.
It was a good thing thoughtoo, that you, it gave you purpose,
it gives you something to do,you know, when you're feeling like,
you know, you don't know whatis going on in your life, you know,
when it feels so out ofcontrol, that's one piece that you
feel like, okay, I'm on thejob, I know what to do.
I can help this person, personwith this.
(23:55):
I can read these doctor's orders.
I can, you know, I know whateverything means and I can just go
and do it.
You know, just having thatconfidence in something and you know,
just the ability.
Yeah, but I mean, save lives.
Well, yeah, I mean savepeople, we hope.
Yeah.
Right.
Or like help people feelbetter in some way.
(24:15):
Right, yeah, helping peoplefeel better in some way and more
so.
I mean, I was never any kind of.
Of life saving nurse I was in.
I never worked in any kind ofER or anything.
I was mostly Alzheimer's andhome health.
That's a big lift.
That's a big important lift aswell because there's a lot of challenges
that come with that.
(24:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, that is.
I'm glad to hear it because I know.
I don't think you weren't.
I don't think you were workingon that, that second book by the.
When we started recording.
I don't think I was either.
And I think it was kind of anidea that you were percolating like
on Twitter and you're like,I'm thinking about this.
And then you kind of made itthing and so good for you putting,
putting that stuff into action.
(24:56):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome.
I know you listen to a lot orwatch a lot of the episodes.
Are there any types of storiesthat you resonate with more or any
that stand out to you thatwere like.
Oh, so I.
I don't.
You know, it's hard to.
Since I listen to them all andI listen to other podcasts as well.
It's hard to remember exactlywhich ones and that.
(25:16):
But I know that, like, theChristy Olinger with the journaling
and reading her brother's bookand that and her talking about parenting
being so hard and how we don'ttalk about it, that was really.
That really stuck out to me.
I felt like I had nobody in myparenting either, you know, and then
journaling is something alsothat's very important in my life
(25:38):
and how my first book started.
So that one really stuck outto me.
And plus, I don't knowsomething about her.
And just.
I mean, I would suggest peoplewatch more than maybe they do, because
I don't.
You probably got this fromher, too, or.
I don't know, were you guysfriends before or something?
I was on their podcast.
Okay.
But that was really the secondtime that I had spoken to her.
(26:00):
Okay.
Because there's somethingabout the way she looks and the way
she talks.
It's just.
She's just enjoyable to watch,you know, so it's just very.
Well, it's a good thing she'sin communications.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
There you go.
Yes.
Yeah.
And you know what'sinteresting about that episode?
That's one in which I didn'tresonate with personally because
(26:25):
it's just not something that'sin my practice.
It's not something that I.
It's not really related towhat my life shift was, kind of like,
how it.
How it triggered me.
But I got so many messagesbehind the scenes about her episode
and how people wanted to startjournaling or they needed to shed
these bad habits or do these things.
(26:46):
And so it goes all the wayback to what you were saying first.
You just don't realize how youknow somebody's story, even if it's
not your same experience.
They might not be parents.
They might not be doing whatever.
Something can connect with youat the right moment to.
To.
To connect with you.
So I don't know why I justsaid connect and connect.
But, you know what I'm sayingis that you never know what piece
(27:08):
of someone's story is goingto, like, ding, you know, something
go off in your brain.
So, yeah, that episode wasvery, very popular for a lot of people.
And then Daniel Rinaldi abouthis brother, and it kind of made
me realize, I don't.
I don't know that I've reallygrieved so much for my sister, how
(27:31):
much I've given thought to that.
That really made me realize hehad a whole bunch around his brother
passing, and I had lost asister as a teenager.
And I don't really.
I don't know if I need moretherapy around that or I.
I think there's somethingstill in me that hasn't.
I haven't really grieved about it.
(27:52):
You know, I was never giventhat opportunity as a kid, you know,
and so many other things comeup that were, you know, almost pushed
it down.
Yeah, that pushed it down, exactly.
So that one was, you know,something that really struck me.
A little trigger.
Yeah, a little trigger andanother little trigger.
And I don't know who said it.
(28:13):
And I was kind of searchingaround, and I thought it was Beth
Booker, but it might not havebeen her.
But somebody was talking aboutthe grief of miscarriage and how
it's something that we don'ttalk about too much because having
a miscarriage, especiallyearly on, is really very common,
(28:34):
and everybody knows that it'sthe body's way of expelling something
that's not going to developnormally anyway.
And it's.
You know, it is what it is.
But once you know, you'repregnant, whether it was intentional
or not, it's still a loss, andyou still feel that.
And that was something, too, that.
(28:55):
I don't know that I.
I know that.
I mention it in my book, and Iknow that it was.
I mean, thank goodness I didnot have a baby with that man, you
know, my second husband.
But at the same time, it does hurt.
It hurts you.
It's a.
It's a grieving, and it's a loss.
And so somebody had broughtthat and said, you know, that's something
(29:16):
we need to talk about, becauseall these women are feeling this,
and they just don't talk aboutit because it's not really.
It doesn't seem like it's thatbig of a thing because it's so common,
but it is.
It's still.
Yeah.
And it's also.
I think there's a lot ofsocietal shame about it where there
shouldn't be.
Right.
Because I think that, youknow, people are afraid to tell people
(29:39):
it happened because they thinkit's like something they did or something,
you know, like to be blamed for.
And I don't know who said it either.
I know Beth talked a lot abouthow new mothers feel and thinking
about, like, sometimes it'sreally, like, terrible those first.
Right.
Couple months, just the wayyou feel as a human, whether that's
(30:01):
Physically, emotionally, allof it.
And I know in her, she waslike, you just like, your baby's
cute, but how are you.
Right.
Like, really thinking aboutthe mother in that sense.
But I don't.
I'm not.
I'd have to go back and lookand see who said that specific.
She may have said that as well.
But I think you're right.
I mean, I think that is kindof why the life shift exists.
(30:22):
I think we, you know, we wantto share things that are so common,
but I think a lot of timeswe're just, like, ashamed because
society has told us that we shouldn't.
We should only talk about thegood things and the things that.
The awards that we win and thepromotions that we get.
But.
But that's not what connects us.
You know, it's these.
(30:42):
It's these tougher moments.
I had early.
Early on, I had a guest,Lauren, who talks about her journey
through infertility and thechallenges and how much shame she
felt.
And this was like, the firsttime she had talked to someone outside
of her immediate family about it.
And since then, she's felt somuch like, confidence and she's found
(31:06):
her voice, and she feels.
She even went to her company'sHR and got family help for, like,
the rest of the company, youknow, and because just sharing your
story and so I think the powerof storytelling is really strong.
Do you feel a strength in whenyou tell your story now?
Now that you've told itmultiple times in many different
(31:28):
ways?
I feel like every time I do,it's another opportunity for somebody
who needs to hear it, to hear it.
And I do feel a little moreconfident in being able to share
it with some expression.
Like, I remember some of thefirst few times I did, it was very
much like almost like rotememory, like just blah, blah, blah,
(31:50):
blah, blah.
This happened, this happened,this happened.
And there was a couple peoplethat said to me, you know, that were,
like, shocked at some of it.
And I was just, like, goingover, like, a list and not really
allowing myself to even feelit while with talking with somebody.
And I think I'm getting alittle better at that.
So that's.
(32:11):
That's one difference, Ithink, in telling it.
And I think there.
That's probably common forpeople that have experienced things
that you've experienced that,you know, you kind of try to make
it as bulleted of a list aspossible to just kind of get through
the conversation because it'sa lot harder to sometimes live in
(32:32):
that space if you haven't fully.
I Don't think you ever fully.
But if you haven't, like,processed it enough that you feel
confident in visiting but notgetting stuck back there, because
there's, you know, if you'veever had any kind of depression or
something like that, you know,how easily you could very well get
(32:53):
stuck back in there.
And so I think there is aprotection that comes with that.
So that makes sense.
Right.
And I've had people say to methat they had, like, in reading the
book or listening to one ofthe podcasts, they would say, I had
to take a break.
Like they were.
That.
I don't know if it's moved or,you know, felt.
(33:16):
I don't want to say bad forme, but they were just.
Empathy.
Yeah, it's empathy, I guess.
Yeah.
And they just kind of werelike, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize,
you know, and it's amazingthat you're just living and living
well, but I don't.
And then I don't.
I didn't realize how much itwas until I started telling my story,
(33:38):
you know, even through goingthrough therapy and hearing all those
words of neglect and PTSD andhearing those words from the therapist
and realizing so much from thechildhood, I still didn't.
Didn't realize that it wasthat big of a deal, you know?
Well, I.
I found this experience aswell, of, like, there aren't too
(34:02):
many opportunities in which wehave a chance to tell our story without
interruption from someone thatwas there from beginning to end.
Right.
And I think when you do that,you're like, oh, you know, like,
even in a therapy session,you're probably just telling a chunk.
You're probably just telling,like, at this point, to this point,
(34:22):
it's not, you know, and sothat seems, like, terrible, but manageable.
But if you.
But telling that story frombeginning and going and this happened
and this happened, then youstart to realize, oh, it is a big
deal.
And, you know, I think.
I think it's wonderful to seethat you took your power back and
you, you know, you arecreating the life that you want to
(34:44):
live.
And I'm sure it's not perfect in.
In certain ways, and, youknow, but that's life, too.
Yeah.
But at the same time, you'rethings on your own terms now and
creating the things that youwant to do.
You're now part of this LifeShift Community 1 in Patreon, and
I super appreciate that.
But just being a part of thisjourney for me, if there's someone
(35:04):
out there that's like, I kindof want I don't know.
Is there anything that youcould say to someone that maybe is
on the fence about sharingtheir story or just like trusting
me with their story oranything like that?
Yeah.
So I think that, that, youknow, it's said so often, and you
have said it so often, but itreally needs to be, you know, put
out there that there is a lotof power in telling your story.
(35:26):
There is a lot that would comefrom it, from within you that you
don't even realize.
It's not only empowering, butit's reflective and that's so important.
You gain so much of your ownself discovery through reflecting
on your own story.
And people.
I know people will say, youknow, I don't need to hash out my
(35:48):
whole past.
And.
But it's not like that.
You know, it's more of aconversation about it, getting it
out of you so it doesn't getstuck in there like I was talking
about the grief of my sister.
It's stuck in there.
I know it is.
And you have to get thesethings out of you to process them
a little better.
And sometimes just having thiscasual conversation.
(36:08):
And as far as the Life Shiftpodcast, you are such a person, and
I know others have said thistoo, and I also know that you don't
take compliments well, but,you know, you do definitely have
this very soothing way about you.
Like, it's almost like itcould be a counseling session.
It's almost like just havingsomebody to listen and you do, you
(36:31):
know, genuinely care and thatcomes across.
And I think that for yourpodcast especially, that's something
that is an experience initself that not.
You might not get with other podcasts.
You know, I appreciate that.
Yes, I'm terrible atcompliments, but I will accept that.
And thank you.
(36:51):
I think there is somethingabout everyone's story or having
these conversations thatsomehow heals a little part of me
that I didn't realize neededthat healing.
And so this journey, like Isaid, even these Patreon bonus episodes
are little bit selfish.
Like, there is a little bit ofselfish piece to having these conversations.
(37:13):
I hope that other people areinspired to have these conversations
with the people around them,because I think the deeper the conversations
and the more real we are witheach other, I think the better experience
we're going to have as a whole.
Right?
Absolutely.
And I think it opens that upfor other people to know that you
can have these conversations.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
Well, thank you for being apart of the Life Shift podcast, being
(37:37):
a part of the Patreoncommunity If you are listening to
this bonus episode and youhaven't heard Pamela's story, Check
out episode 48 to listen to that.
And I'm sure she would love toconnect with you on social media,
so we'll include those in thein the information as well.
Thank you for for doing this, though.
Thank you.
(37:57):
Thank you.
Was it as scary as you thoughtit might be?
No, no, of course not.
All right.
And everyone listening, we'llbe back in a weeks with another after
the recording Patreon bonus episode.
Thanks again, Pamela.
(38:24):
For more information, pleasevisit www.thelife shift podcast.com.
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