Best of Recap Episodes: Unveiling Galectin 3: A Key Player in Chronic Illness | Dr. Myriah Hinchey - The Lindsey Elmore Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:28):
healthier you with econogenics, pectosol, and glyphodtox which can be
effective and natural solutions that you can trust. And now
let's get back to the show. Chronic lime disease refers
to a cluster of symptoms that start after the initial

(01:53):
infection of lime and persist despite having received a course
of antibiotic treatment that is recommended by the Infectious Disease
Society of America. Some patients say that they simply don't
feel cured. They don't feel the same as they did
before lime. They experience fatigue, muscle aches, brain fog, inability

(02:18):
to make decisions with ease, supersensitivity to light, and a
lot of people even get chronic symptoms that just persist
for years and years and years. The term post treatment

(02:38):
lime disease syndrome also describes this persistent infection, the persistent
immune activation and damage that did not exist before the
index infection of lime. It affects about five to twenty
percent of patients following lime disease and can be disabled.

(03:00):
My guest today is Mariah Henschey, and we are going
to be talking all about lime disease and chronic lime
disease and why it's not always acknowledged by the medical community,
and how people can overcome it naturally. This is The

(03:21):
Lindsay Elmore Show. Welcome to The Lindsay Elmore Show, a
podcast for people who deserve to be healthy. With honest,
open and enlightening conversations with doctors, thought leaders, creatives and
spiritual gurus. You'll walk away with simple and tangible tips
and tricks that allow you to live your healthiest life

(03:43):
so you can pursue your dreams, overcome obstacles, and leave
your mark. Doctor Mariah Henshey is a naturopathic physician whose
career has been devoted to the treatment of tick worn illnesses,
most notably lime disease. Her singular dedication to this specific
area of medicine has endowed her with unparalleled knowledge and

(04:08):
understanding of the intricacies surrounding chronic lime and other tickborn illnesses.
Throughout her illustrious career, doctor Henshey has touched the lives
of thousands of patients afflicted by chronic tick born diseases,
encountering diverse presentations and challenges associated with those conditions. Her

(04:31):
clinical experience, coupled with her tireless research on going study
and her personal triumph over chronic tickborn disease has established
her as an authoritative figure in the field. In pursuit
of excellence, doctor Henschey continually keeps abreast of the latest research,

(04:52):
treatment protocols, and emerging therapies, encompassing both allopathic and natural
approaches to chronic life lime disease. Collaborating with other esteemed experts,
she actively participates in various conferences and professional events, annually
constantly refining her approach to patient care. Her dedication has

(05:14):
earned her memberships in esteemed organizations like the International Lime
and Associated Diseases Society and the Medical Academy of Pediatric
Special Needs, where she frequently shares her unique insights to
captivated audiences. Doctor Mariah Henshe, Welcome to the Lindsay Elmore Show.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
I am so excited too, because this is a topic
that we have absolutely never even touched on. We have
talked about lime, but my audience is going to be
brand new to galectin three. So we're going to start
by just kind of talking about some lime disease and
the co infections and why it's been ignored by the

(06:03):
medical community for so many years and all of the things,
and then we're going to dive into this brand new
supplement and how it works and how it functions in
the body all of the thing. So start us out
by talking about lime and the co infections and the
relationship between the two.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Sure, so I would think most people know that. You know,
lime is caused by aspirakeet, which is a type of bacteria.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
The original species.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Is Brellia burg deafray, which was isolated in Lime, Connecticut.
You know, there's definitely conspiracies around how it came about
or became more prevalent, as well as you know, why
it's not really being properly diagnosed or treated in the
conventional medicine community.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't really want to.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Get into any of that, and I don't even know
my full feelings on that, So that's like a completely
different show with a different person.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Basically, the co infections, there's a multitude of co infections,
and really that term just means when the tick bites
the host or the animal and it takes its blood meal,
it's going to really you know, suck out every bacteria, parasite, virus,
anything else that lives inside of that host animal. And

(07:31):
then when the tick drops off and then comes along
and attaches to you later on, it's going to inject
all of those bacteria, parasites, viruses, whatever was in that
deer or that white footed mouse or the chipmunk or whatever,
and it's going to put.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
It into the person.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
So the term co infections really came along because they
are passed along with lime disease, and so the co
infections are not going to show up on any lime
disease test, and the testing for lime alone is already
very very troublesome and unreliable, and that's a whole other

(08:14):
topic as well. So you know, if you've been tested
for lime disease and your negative and you have every
sign and symptom, make sure that you use, you know,
a credible lab that really specializes in testing for lime
and tick borne diseases. The most common co infections are

(08:36):
Bibizia bartanella or Likia anaplasma, and then there's a handful
of viruses, including the poacin virus, but there are other
co infections as well, And really the trouble is is
the more organisms that you have inside of your body,
the more I compromised You're going to become, or the

(08:57):
more dysregulated your immune system is going to be, the
more inflamed you're going to be. I kind of think
of straws on camel's back, right, So the more co
infections you have, the higher your bacterial parasthetic viral load is,
the more inflamed, the more toxic, and the more dysfunctional
your immune system is going to be. And then they

(09:20):
all kind of work synergistically to help each other live there.
So you're going to have a lot more symptoms, and
I would say more severe symptoms the more co infections
that you have.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
I'm interested if we have this high infectious load of
all these co infections that get re that get deposited
into you following a tick bite where they have effectively
taken it out of something else and now they're giving
it all to you. It seems like a lot of

(09:55):
these co infections are almost they're just on that barrier
of clinical, they're a little bit subclinical. And so my
curiosity is peaud as to like, how often does this
lead to like an overt sepsis or like an overt
really frank presentation of an infection, because what's so what

(10:20):
the conundrum and what's so befuddling is that people live
years and years and years with just these low grade
infections going on. And I love what you said about
them all working together to live in that same space,
because while we haven't talked a lot about lime and

(10:44):
co infections, we certainly have talked about the microbiome a
lot on the show, and we know that the microbiome,
all those healthy bacteria also work together to survive. And
so this is the dastardly opposite side of that. So
what is the fundamental difference? Like why are we not
progressing to an overt sepsis and why do these just

(11:07):
kind of linger for so many years?

Speaker 3 (11:11):
So I would say number one is that if they
kill us, they die, right, So they don't want to
kill us, They just want to rob all of our nutrients,
break down the extracellular matrix, eat all of our collagen, right,
So I would say that's kind of number one. I
don't know, And it sounds so crazy to talk about
bacterium parasites like they're so intelligent, but they really really are,
you know. So it's like they know how to push

(11:33):
it enough to cause major breakdown and disaster, but not
actually kill us. Again going back to the straws on
the camel's back analogy. So a lot of times we
can get along fine with them, but then when something
happens and you get like that last infection, and it's
like the straw that breaks the camels back, that's when

(11:55):
the immune when the immune system becomes so compromised that
now the infections just start to multiply out of control.
So a lot of people, for whatever reason, understand like
acute chicken pox and then shingles, and so I kind
of use this analogy to describe it with patients because
I have a lot of patients who probably have had

(12:17):
lime and or co infections for years and it's not
until something else happens that lowers their immunity, and then
all of a sudden they have you know, their symptoms
go from just you know, very mild to off the
charts severe and the diseases become debilitating. So it's kind

(12:38):
of like when you have chicken pox, right like you
have the malaise, you have the fever, you have the rash,
and then chicken pox doesn't or vericella, the virus never
actually leaves the body. It stays inside of the body,
but our immune system does a really good job of
keeping it, you know, from replicating, and it's not until
you become imm comp right or very very stressed out,

(13:02):
or whatever the case may be, and then you end
up with shingles, which is like that secondary infection that happens,
you know, sometimes years or even multiple decades later. So
people tend to understand that analogy. So I use that
a lot. So I mean, I can't even count how
many patients I've had where it was after having a

(13:22):
severe car accident, going through a terrible divorce, losing a
spouse or a parent or a child, or getting COVID
or getting vaccinated for COVID, or you know, contracting some
other illness that is kind of like that that straw
on the camel's back that then just allows everything to

(13:42):
go haywire because the immune system can no longer control it.
Mico talks and illness is a big one too. People
live along, you know, okay with lime and co infections.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Then they get exposed.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
To a water damage damaged building and have a micro
talk an issue, and then all hell breaks loose.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
I mean it it really in in functional medicine, this
is the trigger where we're looking for that triggering event
that never been well since moment. And so what what
you've so elegantly described so far is that we have
the antecedents where we've got the babcia or we've got
whatever parasite came along as a coinfection, but then something

(14:26):
triggers it and then it becomes a full blown problem.
And then and then what do you do? Because as
we've i mean, we've mentioned that the testing for lime
is not great, that the faults, the Faulse negative rate
is very very high. They're just not they're not accurate

(14:47):
and precise tests and so and neither is the treatment.
The treatment is not great. So what happens when there
is some sort of triggering event then throws people into
a full on It sounds like it's not truly like
an infectious state where they're running a high fever, et cetera.

(15:11):
It sounds like more it's just this hyper inflamed state.
Is that correct? Or is it more of the classic
presentation of an infection?

Speaker 3 (15:22):
So it's not a classic presentation. Once you've had it
and it's disseminated and you now have like these chronic
tick born infections. Really, what happens is it's a cycle
between like the immune disregulation causing the inflammatory side a kinds,
the inflammatory side of kinds worsening the immune dysregulation, and

(15:42):
what happens is is it ends up making the body
hospitable to these infections. So the body and what is
created inside of the body not only allows these organisms
to survive and evade the immune system, but it actually
helps them to thrive. And this really comes down to
the inflammatory cytokine cascade kicked off by nuclear factor cappa beta.

(16:07):
So nuclear factor cappa beta ignites IL six, IL one beta,
tuminicrosis factor alpha, the MMPs, which are like the collagen
ases that break down collagen and feed the organism.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
And so a lot of this is also.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Going to go into like why patients with Tickborn disease
end up with such bad gut dysfunction. So this inflammation,
it happens at every single cell in the body, and
I think a lot of people don't realize that line
infects every single cell of the body, and so you're

(16:44):
going to have dysfunction in all of your organs and
your organ systems, and it's going to lead to what
can look like, you know, multisystem failure in the body.
And so anyways back to the gut, you're going to
end up with the break down of the tight junctions,
which increases permeability. And now you're leaking toxins back in.

(17:06):
You're letting in you know, undigested food or partially digested food,
polypeptides in.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Now you're going to create a bunch of food sensitivities.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
You're going to have histamine levels go up, and it's
just this vicious cycle. So when I'm working with a patient,
I always say, you know, there is no one size
fits all treatment protocol because I now have to figure
out what is going on inside of you as an individual,
like how have these infections played on your genetic and

(17:40):
physical weaknesses that have now made you have like this
puzzle that we have to go in and figure out
what all the pieces are. And then if we can
figure out what the pieces are, we can help to
make you inhospitable to the infection. We can lower the
cytokine cascade, we can try to rebuild and back balance

(18:00):
the immune system while we're shrinking the infectious load. Because
in the end, it's our immune system that always has
to either completely eradicate an infection or get it to
the point where it's not replicating, like into like sort
of a remission. So we can use herbal or prescription antibiotics.

(18:24):
But if we're only using antibiotics, not only are we
going to mess up the microbiome and our immune system
is dependent on our microbiome, but if we only focus
on killing the infection, you're never going to have a
chance of eradicating it because you're not fixing the immune system.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I was just about to say the exact same thing,
like you can use antibiotics, you can use anti virals,
but you're not fixing the problem. Like you're not reversing
this inflammatory this you're not in you're not reversing the
inflamed state that is leading to this hospitable environment. And

(19:09):
I mean, I love how you talked about how we
have these collagen aases and the breakdown and the tight
junctions and this increase of histamine, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
It also.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
I'm wondering too, are there other mechanisms that are like
that create hospitable environments, that are more like walling off or.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Creating the biofilms.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yes, let's talk about when we start.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Talking about galactin three because that plays a role in
the biofilm formation.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Okay, well, let's talk about galectin three because you have
been researching its upstream role in lime and other inflammatory diseases.
So teach us about this protein and why you think
it's so important.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Sure, so it's a carbohydrate binding protein and it's actually
it's not a bad thing in an acute situation. So
it acts as an alarmin. And so what that means
is when you have an infection or an injury, it's
going to recruit and bring in all of the immune
cells that your body needs to either kill the organisms

(20:18):
or heal the wound. And it's supposed to be short lived,
so it calls in all of the pertinent cells and
you kill and you repair, and you heal, and you know,
you maybe form a scar and then that's it. Levels
are supposed to go down and then you move on.
When you have a chronic infection, it's like that fire
alarm that just never gets turned off. So it's like

(20:40):
this constant signaling of pro inflammatory cido kinds and immune cells,
and it can actually lead to the breakdown of collagen
and excessive amounts of fibrosis, So really it's going to
lead to inflammation fibrosis. It plays a huge role in
the progression of cancer, and it causes immune dysregulation when

(21:04):
it has been chronically elevated. Let me think for a sex,
so did I forget anything? It increase mass cells, it
builds biofilms, and then also it increases the MMP nine
so or the collagen ass which are the enzymes that
spirakeets use to break down our collagen in our joints,

(21:26):
our tendons, our ligaments, our blood vessels, our skin, our
organs and feed because a strand of collagen has the
exact nutrient profile that spira keets need to live. So
it's interesting how these inflammatory cytokines work for the infection.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yes they do. They actually feed it along the way.
And so we talked a little bit about these specific roles,
and let's talk about We'll be right back after a
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(24:05):
order and now let's get back to the show. Let's
talk a little bit more about biofilms. You said that
you know, galectin three can really lead to some of
the creation of the biofilms. But how does lime disease
specifically interact with galctin three to create the biofilms? And

(24:28):
what happens when patients are just coded in these biofilms.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
So, really what happens is the biofilms I think of
them as like forts, and so really it gives a
shielding and the bacteria kind of adhere inside of them
and build this biofilm around them. So if you look
at the structure of galactin three, it looks like a
little sort of like c with a poll on the

(24:56):
end of it, and that's a monomer. When it becomes active,
it turns into a pentomer.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
So if you picture.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Five of them together and then these little sort of
like handles bind to each other and they form a lattice.
So you picture that lattice, and that's what actually gives
the structure to the biofilm, and then it can incorporate
heavy metals and iron and a whole bunch of other things.
But really what happens is is it hides from the

(25:23):
immune system, so it decreases immune surveillance.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Right, yes, exactly, it shields itself off. That's what I
was That's what we were talking about just a minute
ago about like it's like that classic aspergeloma that is
so hard to treat, which is not a coinfection of lime,
but still is another way that the body very effectively
walls itself off. And I love the way that you

(25:48):
described the galectin three transforming from a monomer to a pentomer,
because if you think about it creating a lattice work,
what we've really got is almost like a crystalline structure.
And really, truly, that's what it is. And so even
rocks have this exact same approach. It's just their bonds

(26:11):
are tighter than what we're seeing in this biofilm, so
you know, we're seeing less, less sticky forces, but forces
nonetheless that are very similar to the exact way that
rocks and crystals are are put together as well. And
so what are we going to do about galectin three?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
So what I do that I learned from doctor Elias
is to use a very special form of modified cetrispectum.
So the form that I use is called pactasol, and
it's the only form of modified cetris pact in that
is patented and has gone through this special estrofurcation and

(26:57):
is lowered to or is modified to a lower molecular weight,
and that actually allows it to be absorbed. So regular
modified citrus pectin is just going to stay in the
gut and act as a binder. This actually gets absorbed
into the bloodstream so that it can go systemically throughout
the body and decreased galactin three levels as well as

(27:18):
bind heavy metals, toxins endotoxins, which is super important when
you're really trying to kill any sort of bacteria or
fungus because of this Herkzheimer reaction, so it allows the
binding ability to come inside of the body instead of
just being in the gut like it would with regular

(27:42):
citrus pectum.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
We haven't talked about what the Herkzheimer reaction is on
the show. Give us just a couple of sentences about
this really radical inflammatory response known as the Herkzheimer reaction.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Sure so typically so I think it was originally sort
of coined. The term was coined with killing syphilis, and
so syphilis is also the cause in two lime disease.
They're in or to sparracates. They they're in the same family.
And basically, when you kill bacteria, they release their toxins,

(28:17):
their LPs, which is lipopolysaccharide, and so that is actually
going to ignite the release of nuclear factor kappa beta,
which again is going to ignite that same inflammatory cytokine
cascade that causes massive inflammation. It also causes histamine to
be released, and you basically have this exacerbation of all

(28:43):
of your symptoms, and some patients will actually get new symptoms.
So in my opinion, it is very, very important to
make sure that that patient is able not only to
properly detoxify, but to eliminate. Right, So the routes of
a lifeination have to be working before you can get

(29:03):
them detoxing, and they have to be detoxing before you
can start killing things. And if somebody has increased intestinal
permeability or leaky gut, they are not going to detoxify properly,
They're just going to leak everything back in. So in
my opinion, it is very important to do the things
that we need to do from a functional medicine perspective

(29:25):
to get that patient detoxing and eliminating so that when
we start killing things, they're not just reabsorbing all of
these endotoxins, because that's just going to increase the inflammatory
cytokind cascade and cause further immune dysregulation and make them
feel worse, but also feed their infection.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
You know, you've added another layer. We talk a lot
about how important having open drainage pathways and being able
to detoxify. But what I I honestly have never really
thought about in as clear as terms as you just
put it. It's not only about draining the stuff out.

(30:10):
It's about it not going through the recirculation, through all
the leaky gut, through all the pathways that continue to
feed the inflammation. And so I want us to come.
I want to I want to learn more about this
modified citrus pectin. But I would love to hear a

(30:31):
timeline of an approach. If you've got somebody in your
office who is sick of stinc inflamed, you know as
as one can be leaky gut, where do you start
with the with those people? And then how do you
progress into introducing supplements, introducing whatever that it is that

(30:54):
you do. But how do you ensure that these drainage
pathways are open and that really the leaky gut is
sealed up first.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
It's a long story.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
I mean, I can tell you my typical approach with
a patient and maybe that will answer so all right,
So basically I will do a white lets cell micronutrient
panel with all of my patients. Point being, you know,
we are a bunch of biochemical reactions. You know, our
physical body as well as our chemical bodies, right our neurotransmitters,

(31:27):
our hormones.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Et cetera.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
So you know, we're basically we eat something, we convert
it from A to B, T, C to D. They're
all enzymatic reactions. Every single enzyme is going to depend
on a vitamin or a mineral cofactor. So I don't
just put people on supplements willy nilly. I find out
what they are borderline deficient or deficient in, and that
is what we focus on for supplementation. And you know,

(31:52):
obviously we want to make sure that like you know,
phase one and phase two of their liver is detoxifying
and that they're balanced so that we're not making those
toxic intermediates that are even more inflammatory. We want to
make sure that they have adequate amounts of you know,
methal folly and B twelve and all of the things
that you need to run your methylation cycle or you

(32:13):
can't detox. And I mean I could go on and
on just about you know, the micronutrient panel alone, but basically,
I want to replenish the things that they are not
currently getting in their diet or from their current supplements.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
And it's a.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Nice check too to see if what they're taking is
actually working. So I do that with almost every patient.
I also do an IgG and an IgA food sensitivity
panel and through that because basically what I'm looking for
is what internally and externally is going to be causing
inflammation because inflammation feeds the infection. So if you're eating

(32:52):
foods that you are making IgG or IgA antibodies too,
you are going to be increasing in FLAM. You are
going to be increasing histamine as well, a lot of times,
and you're going to be distracting the immune system at
least if your immune system is busy making antibodies to

(33:12):
the foods that you're eating, then that is a drain
on your immune system. In some cases, it can actually
be a trigger to an overreaction and autoimmunity. So those
are two tests that I do on every single patient.
Depending on how bad their food sensitivity panel comes back,
I can kind of judge what their intestinal permeability is.

(33:32):
You know, if someone only has one or two things
and they're not terrible, then I would assume that their
gut is in pretty good shape.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
You know, if they have.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
A multitude of food sensitivities, then we can assume that
they have increased intestinal permeability. So that's kind of like
the basic groundwork that I do. I put everybody on
some sort of healthy, anti inflammatory diet. I make very
few blanks statements in my practice, but one is.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
No gluten, no dairy, no sugar.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
If you have an infection, you should not be eating
pro inflammatory foods and sugar because sugar is going to
suppress your immune system and feed the infections.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
So that's like my one blanket statement.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
So once I've done the white blood cell micronutrient panel,
I've done the food sensitivity panel, I kind of have
my gut analysis, which a lot of that comes from
their history. I should point out I sit with every
patient for at least an hour, if not more, and
we do a very detailed history, because that's where I
get most of my clues. And you know, a lot
of patients come in and they if they know they

(34:38):
have tickborne disease, and they've accepted that that's their underlying cause.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
And for years I thought that.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Was the underlying cause of their current state. But now
I've realized it's not their underlying cause. It has created
other underlying causes. And again that's what I'm going out after,
like what are the things that are causing their inflammation,
their immune dysregulation beyond the infection.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (35:06):
So I have to make sure they're detoxing, we have
their inflammation under control, we're trying to balance their immune system,
and we're healing their gut. So I'll kind of start
there for the first thirty days, and I use a
lot of herbs as well, So I might pick herbs
that aren't really killers but are going to help to

(35:26):
modulate the inflammatory cytokine cascade. Japanese not weed is antimicrobial,
but the combination of Japanese not weed and Chinese skull
cap together actually inhibits all of the pro inflammatory side
a kind so nuclear factor cap of beta tuminicrosis factor
alpha aisle six, aisle one beta MMP nine. So just

(35:52):
those two herbs alone do a lot. It's not a
complete treatment, but they do a lot. And then if
you throw will Ganda in that helps to modulate THH
one THH two and bring it back into balance. So
now just those three orbs can do a lot. And
remember the inflammatory cytokines and specifically MMP nine break down

(36:14):
the collagen and feed them. So if you're blocking their
ability to break down the extracellular matrix and eat our collagen,
you effectively start to starve them. So you can start
to make a difference just by making those changes in
the beginning, and all of that is actually going to
start to heal their gut. And I put everyone pretty

(36:37):
much at that point on pactasol because the pack tosol
is going to decrease. Let's see, it decreases MMP nine,
it decreases interluken six, it decreases interlucn one beta, and
it helps to start healing back up the tight junctions.

(36:57):
It also protects collagen.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
The thing I like about your approach is that you're
not only looking at what's the current picture. You're actually
looking for all the antecedents that kind of led to
this point and trying to go all the way back
up to back up to the top. Now, these these
inflammatory mediators that are affected by modified citrus pectin. Just

(37:21):
can you can you elaborate on the research that has
gone into modified citrus pectin and what is it about
pecticol that makes you believe in it so strongly?

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, that would definitely be doctor Elias many years that
I spent.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
He's such an amazingly smart kind man.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Who just an amazing human.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
He's such a good human. Yes, absolutely, and conveys so
much information just so clearly and succinctly. I love doctor Elias. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
So this, this particular pactasol C, to my knowledge, is
the only modified centris pectin that has been studied. So
I'm talking like the original has been patented. I think
that it was developed like over twenty five years ago.
So there's a multitude of studies that have been done
showing its effectiveness. There is one study to my knowledge

(38:20):
on modified citris pectin showing that it didn't do anything
that it claims to do and that it did not
affect galactin three levels.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
But that was that was not.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
On pactasol, that was on a different, inferior type of
modified centris PACTN. So this particular pactasol, the estrification is
like less than ten percent, and I believe its size
is like five kil adultans, So it's very very small

(38:53):
compared to like if you were just looking at citris
pactin or even some of the other or modified centris
pectins that exist. So I don't know if that answers
your question.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I mean, it makes sense to me. I just want
to clarify it for my audience. I mean, people are
going to be like, what the heck is Adulton, you know,
And so what you're saying, Yeah, what you're saying is
that the esterification increases the size of the molecule, increasing
the number of kilodultins that the molecule is, increasing the
likelihood that it will stay inside of the lining of
the gut instead of getting into the bloodstream where we're

(39:29):
wanting it to be, which in my understanding is that's
one of the big differentiators between pectasol and other products
on the market. Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (39:40):
So the pactasol is actually going to be able to
be absorbed into the blood stream and into the body.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I yes, okay, and now we understand why that is
so so important and so how readily available is this
on the market, because I don't when I think of
like supplements that I've seen over the years modified such

(40:08):
respect and is not one of them, Like how emerging
is this research?

Speaker 3 (40:16):
So it's only been on my radar for probably the
past five years. I'm gonna say maybe six at this point.
It is the one thing besides like vitamin D and
epa DHA that I can say I literally put every

(40:37):
single patient on that has a tichborn disease.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
But I don't really know like how far back the research.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Goes, Okay, I mean it makes sense that you would
have people on vitamin D and epa DHA simply for
the gut healing properties of it. That's that's two of
the key supplements in the five R protocol for how
we tone down how we tone down leaky gut. And
so this one, you know, also is that's like your

(41:11):
trifecta for people who have these these lime infections. And
so we've mentioned heavy metals a little bit as far
as their incorporation into the biofilms. But I'd love to
know more about how heavy metals play into the symptomatology
and how maybe your approach is a little bit different

(41:34):
in people who also who have heavy metal burdens alongside
lime versus not a heavy metal burden and lime.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
So it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
So I'll start with talking about how heavy metals play
a role. So the presence of heavy metals is going
to suppress.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Or alter the immune system.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
They actually, like I had mentioned, are part of the biofilm,
so they can actually promote biofilm formation. There are some
studies that show that the bacteria become more virulent in
the presence of heavy metals, and so again like this
is just you know, further ammunition here for the importance
of detox. But when it comes to heavy metals, our

(42:15):
body likes to sequester them in the fat tissue. And
then obviously we just said biofilms, and I tend to
think as long as they're in the fat tissue, they're
somewhat safe there. So and I you know, this is
just my opinion. I'm sure you could find several other
doctors whose opinions differ, but I don't like to go

(42:35):
gung ho trying to kelate and pull heavy metals out,
because once we move them out of the fat tissue,
especially in a patient with poor detoxification and severe inflammation
and leaky gut, what are we potentially doing right, We're
pulling them out, we're dumping them into the bloodstream, and

(42:56):
now we're exposing all of our vital organs to them
instead of just having them be sequestered in the fat cells.
So I would rather use something very gentle like Packta saul,
also chlorilla, and there's a few others that just are
they're not really like huge mobilizers, but they're going to
bind what's being released. So the biggest concern when someone

(43:19):
has heavy metals for me is you know, breaking down
the biofilms and releasing those heavy metals and if you're
not doing something to you know, to bind them and
get them out of the body. So this is another
reason why I really really like this type of modified
centrospect and because it takes care of that.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, it just it reduces the ability of the toxins
to kind of reinflame everything, and so so much information here.
I want you to take us out because we're we're
talking about gallect and three. And we've talked a lot
about lime, but three is also implicated in in heart

(44:03):
disease and kidney disease and cancer and so much else.
Why does this protein have such a broad reaching potential
in all inflammatory conditions? And are there are there other
proteins that have this powerful an effect on the immune

(44:25):
system or is this kind of one of the mac
daddies of like triggering all of the inflammatory cascade.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Now, I would say from what I know, this is
one of the big ones. And again, like you hit
the nail on the head, it's because of the inflammation.
So you know when someone has a tick born disease
and they have inflammation, it's not like, oh, here's this
inflammation with my tickborn disease.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's massive.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
It's every cell, it's every system. And a lot of
these inflammatory cyto kinds promote cancer growth, tumor growth, and progression.
And so when the galactin three turns on nuclear factor
cappa beta and that whole downstream effect, you're just really
increasing your risk for cancer. Now, copel that with the

(45:12):
fact that it's disregulating your immune system, right, so now
your immune system can't do its job and you're kind
of just a ticking time bomb.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I hate to say that that sounded terrible.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
But you know what I mean, like down regulate the
immune system, up regulate inflammation and you know damage oxidative stress, right,
which these infections cause as well, decrease your inability to toxify,
to detoxify.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
And it's like the perfect storm.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
I mean, it is that classic, classic understanding of no
matter what you're doing in your in your life, you're
either walking towards disease or away from disease. And if
you have this body that that you know, the guns
already loaded with loads and loads and loads of inflammation,
it's just a matter of time until you hit that

(46:05):
triggering event. It's just a matter of time. And so
I completely get it, and you know it does. It
is harsh kind of to say it's like a ticking
time bomb, but I really think that we all need
to hear it, and it reminds us that we show
up every day to either walk towards the disease or
away from it. So, Mariah, it has been so great

(46:28):
to get to talk to you here today, and I
think you have just showered us with so much information
that probably very few of our audience members have ever heard,
so thank you for doing this research and really getting
out there and helping people who are marginalized because of
their you know quote fake lime disease, truly heal and

(46:51):
truly eliminate all of these co infections and resolve all
the antecedents that got them there in the first place.
I absolutely love your approach, So thank you so much
for coming in and being a guest today on the
Lindsay Elmore Show.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Thanks so much for having me. I want to throw
out there.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
So, the International Line and Associated Disease As Society or
EYELADS is doing their annual conference in October.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
I believe it starts on the.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Nineteenth, and these are all extremely knowledgeable, kind limeliterate doctors
who basically specialize in treating tickbore and disease. So if
your listeners want to learn more, they should definitely check
out check out that conference.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I love that and it is so good to be
seeing an evolution in medicine where people are truly remembering
the heart of medicine and the heart of pharmacy, which
is the empathetic care of patients and like truly trying

(47:57):
to figure out what's going on with patients instead of
kind of the factory mill based approach that we've had
for so many decades. So listeners, go and check it out.
And if you would like some modified citrus pectin, go
and check out pectasol, because I know I love it.
Do you take it every day? I'm sure you do

(48:18):
every single day.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
All I do anti aging?

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, oh see, there you go, there you go. And
so this is a powder, it's kind of a it's
a flavor, it's you know, it is what it is,
and so how do you dose it to make it
like as palatable and as enjoyable as you can?

Speaker 3 (48:37):
So interestingly, you can get it as a lime flavored
powder that actually tastes like lime aid. We actually call
it lime aid with the kids that we treat because
I hide their herbal medicine in there. For adults, we
call it a lime rita. But anyways, that one is very,
very tasty. They do also have, like I believe, orange
flavored chewables, and then they have capsules. So there's actually

(49:01):
a multitude of different preparations for it. I personally like
the lime powder on with my lime patients.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
No pun intended.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
We do a scoop three times a day. That's kind
of like the cancer and the severe infection dose. Myself,
I take like one scoop a day, sometimes two depending.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
All right, all right, well, we just got down another
rabbit hole. So I will say thank you once again
and let's chat again soon because it has been such
a joy to get to know you today.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Thank you. It's been great talking with you too. Thanks
for having me.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
The Lindsaylmore Show is written and produced by me. Lindsay
Olmore Show segments are produced by Soueproco and Derek Lugo.
Sound design and editing is by Jive Media. Support the
Lindsay Olmore Show by heading to Lindsayilmore dot com slash podcast.
Your contribution, no matter how big or how small, helps

(49:57):
us to bring the best guests to the interview chair.
Thank you so much for listening. Subscribe, rate and review
the show on Apple Podcasts. Share this and all of
your favorite episodes with a friend, and on social media,
be sure to tag at Lindsay Elmore Show and help
us bring the pod to more people.

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