June 2, 2025 • 49 mins
In this powerful episode, Lindsey Elmore sits down with intuitive leadership coach and author Mory Fontanez to unpack why so many of us are burned out, reactive, and disconnected from ourselves. The culprit? We've outsourced our intuition. Mory explains how fear hijacks decision-making and shares her signature TRUST framework to help us shift from survival mode to self-trust.
Whether you're a leader navigating crises, a parent struggling to tune in, or someone simply trying to quiet the noise of the world, this episode gives you the tools to stop second-guessing and start listening to your inner wisdom.
Key Takeaways:
- Outsourcing intuition leads to burnout, poor leadership, and decision regret.
- Self-trust is a skill that can be developed through intentional awareness and practice.
- Inner child work involves noticing contracted beliefs and replacing them with compassionate truth.
- Leaders must stop hoarding information and empower team-level decision-making.
- Stress isn’t required for productivity—purpose is
- 05:49 – Why we outsource our intuition
- 11:35 – How to begin simple, practical inner child work
- 20:02 – Leaders must empower, not control
- 27:12 – Burnout and the parasympathetic nervous system
- 32:48 – You don’t need stress to be productive
- 37:07 – Maury’s TRUST method explained
- 42:04 – The media, fear, and distraction from inner wisdom
- 46:09 – Focus on local connection and empathy
- Book: Higher Self: Reclaiming the Power of Your Intuition by Maury Fontanez
- Connect with Maury: www.moryfontanez.com
- Follow Maury on Instagram: @moryfontanez
Related Episodes:
- From Surviving to Thriving: Nurturing Your Vagus Nerve | Dr. Navaz Habib
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-surviving-to-thriving-nurturing-your-vagus-nerve/id1496692066?i=1000651141255 - Best of Recap Episodes: Cultivating Self-Compassion and Resilience: Shifting Your Stress from Fight or Flight | Dr. Aditi Nerurkar
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/best-of-recap-episodes-cultivating-self-compassion/id1496692066?i=1000697559203
Listen & Watch:Apple Podcasts | YouTube | Spotify
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back everybody to this week's edition of The Lindsay
Elmore Show. Today, we're going to be talking about burnout,
about reactivity, and about how we can get to true
self trust. Reactivity and being in fight or flight is
leading to burnout, division, and oftentimes making decisions that lead
(00:21):
to regret. We talk about how we can slow down,
tune in, and respond with clarity instead of simply reacting
to the situation around us. Crises are everywhere, and we
all get fatigued from them. When we live in a
(00:42):
constant state of stress, we tend to either lash out
or completely shut down. Our political climate isn't helping, it's
creating a similar effect where people simply feel like they
are out of control. Let's talk today about how we
(01:02):
are outsourcing our intuition and how we can move towards
true self trust. We're going to talk about what is
intuition and how it can be used. We're going to
talk about some of the biggest mistakes that leaders make
when they distrust their intuition, and how they can ask
(01:24):
very smart questions to help people discover whether their own
innate intuition is something that should be followed or whether
that first idea can be re thought. Let's talk about
how fear is the absolute opposite of intuition. With Maury Fontanez.
(01:46):
We're going to talk about how we can help ourselves
and our organizations to help elevate our consciousness. Maury has
written a book Higher Self, Reclaiming the Power of your Intuition,
and the book gives guiding principles not only for executives
(02:07):
and entrepreneurs, but for people in general, especially those who
feel like they're constantly living in fight or flight, and
it helps them to shift into better decision making capacities.
This is the Lindsay Elmore Show.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Welcome to The Lindsay Elmore Show, a podcast for people
who deserve to be healthy. With honest, open and enlightening
conversations with doctors, thought leaders, creatives and spiritual gurus, you'll
walk away with simple and tangible tips and tricks that
allow you to live your healthiest life so you can
(02:44):
pursue your dreams, overcome obstacles, and leave your mark. Marie
Fontanez is a.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Sought after intuitive life and leadership coach and the founder
of eight twenty two Group, a consultancy that helps organizations
elevate their consciousness. After a notable career as a crisis
manager for Fortune five hundred companies, Maury realized that many
leaders fail because they are disconnected from their intuition and purpose.
(03:15):
As an intuitive coach, Maury guides c suite leaders, performers,
and other public personalities to reconnect with their inner wisdom
to successfully navigate change, challenges, and growth. Her work is
essential today to help move our society away from divisiveness
(03:36):
towards empathy, empowerment, and unity. Her first book, Higher Self,
Reclaiming the Power of Your Intuition is published by HarperCollins
and is available anywhere where you purchase books. Maury Fontanez,
Welcome to the Lindsay Elmore Show.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Hi, Lindsay, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm so excited to talk to you because this is
so such a timely topic that we are going to
be discussing today. This morning, when I was in therapy,
we started with a three hour long rip on shame
and how we process shame and healthy ways of processing
shame include just saying like, dang it, I really messed up.
(04:19):
I hurt that person's feelings. I'm gonna apologize and not
do that again. But more often we tend to either
fight flight, freeze or fawn just to make other people
either happy or to tell them I'm going to make
you feel as bad as I do, or we just go.
I don't know what to do. And this morning I
(04:40):
was very upset that everyone told me I am the
type of person who tends to fawn, and I was like,
no way, you guys, this makes me so angry. And
this is a group that I've been in for a
very long time. We all know each other very well,
the trust is very deep. And they proceeded to list
(05:01):
dozens and dozens of ways that I neglect my inner
truth and that I do not trust myself. And in
your new book, Higher Self, one of the things that
you talk about is the self trust revolution. And you've
advised some really top executives through some intense crises, and
(05:27):
you've noticed some mistakes about outsourcing intuition, outsourcing power and
really just getting stuck in either fight flight freeze or
fawn or what have you learned along the way about
how people look for that external validation versus trusting their
internal compass.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
First of all, Lindsay, I have to tell you I'm
in the fawn club with you, there's no shame in
there at all. I absolutely have people pleasing as part
of my system of survival. And that's what's important to
know that these are strategies for survival that very very
young versions of us create to just understand the world,
(06:10):
because the world is so big and complicated and beyond
our understanding when we're younger, and so we have to
build limiting beliefs about ourselves to make sense of why
mom is acting this way, or Dad seems that way,
or my friends are treating me this way. And so,
you know, I think that all of us fall into
fight fight freeze are fun, and the awareness of it
(06:33):
is truly the unluck. And so I think to answer
your question, you know, when I say we're in the
self trust revolution, really what I mean is that every
single answer that you seek exists within you, every single answer.
You have the wisdom within you to know what to
(06:54):
do next at all times. And if something about my
words is surprising or shocking or uncomfortable, then there's your
evidence right there that you've been trained to externalize your wisdom.
If you are surprised that I'm telling you you know
the answers within you, that's proof that you've been part
(07:18):
of a larger programming that tells us that intelligence and
wisdom comes from outside sources. And that happens for a
lot of reasons we don't have to get into and
it's happened for so long that we don't really know
how to stop and pause and notice that we're not
(07:39):
being taught to trust ourselves. But one way I even
notice in raising my own kids I have teenagers, is
having to stop myself from give them advice and just
start with, well, what do you think I really trust
your wisdom? What do you think about this? I'm not
saying that means let them go do what they want
to do. I'm saying, just eat. Even in that conversation,
(08:01):
you're training their brain to start to believe, oh, I've
got wisdom in me. So there's a million things that
we run into as we grow up where we could
be taught to look inward, but we're taught instead to
trust the authority, figure, to trust the news, to trust
the teacher, to trust whatever is external instead of the
(08:23):
and model I'm trying to preach, which is look internal
first and then from their seek guidance and wisdom from
others instead of handing all of that wisdom and outsourcing
it all to others. And I think to answer your
question about leaders, you know, leaders do this a lot
because they have a lot of noise that they have
(08:43):
to manage. They have board members, they have shareholders, they
have customers, they have employees, And often when I'm called
in on a crisis, it's because what's happening is the
noise of all of those people and their needs and
their expectations is outweighing the inner knowing of that leader.
And what I'm there to just remind them is you're
(09:05):
here for a reason. You're leading this company, this brand,
this organization for a reason. Can we get back to
what that is and what you truly know at the
core of your being, and then we can talk about
why you didn't listen to that self, because that usually
is why we end up in a crisis situation.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It leads me to two to two questions, and I
think they can kind of come together. Oftentimes, when I
read quote self help books or I really do a
deep dive into my own personal development, a lot of
things come back to this very young version of ourselves
(09:44):
where we don't have the vocabulary, the tools, the skill sets.
I heard doctor Keisha Rrs one time say anything that
you've never experienced, you initially experience as a trauma, just
because you've never been through it before. So everything in
this very young version of ourselves can be quite traumatic.
(10:07):
Now that leads me to the question of, well, if
everything got messed up in childhood, how do I repair
it now? And kind of as an add on to that,
what you are doing in asking your children what do
you think? Is fundamentally different than the because I said
(10:29):
so model, which I think a lot of executive leaders
also fall into when they think they've got that intuition,
but they're not communicating a mission, a vision, a plan,
whatever it is. So talk to us first about, like, well,
that inner child work that we know we're supposed to
(10:51):
be doing but seems so fundamentally hard. And where's the
balance between this what do you think? And the seven
hour long meetings that never come to an end and
the do it because I said so?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Model?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Or are both valid at some points?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, two really good questions. Let's start with the inner
child work. I think that anytime a phrase is repeated
too much in a self help space, it loses its power.
And I think right now, inner child work is cant
follow in that category. So I'm gonna just make it
really simple for you. This quote unquote work is really
(11:33):
just about three things. When you notice yourself believing something
that feels bad in your system, and you know what
that means. I'm not gonna tell you whatever bad feels
like to you. For me, it feels like pressure on
my chest, shortness of breath, stress. You know, it shows
(11:53):
up in most of the time a contracted way. That
just means you're pulling inWORD. There's heaviness when a thought
creates that contracted feeling. The first part of this is
just to ask who believes this? Which part of me
believes this thing that's making me feel small? Period? And
(12:18):
I'm telling you your consciousness is so connected to you,
obviously it will deliver the answer pretty quickly if you
don't consternate on it, if you don't put pressure on yourself.
But if you're just calm, who believes this? Oh? Okay,
this is like me when I'm five and I'm home
alone a lot, so I'm believing something about like being lonely,
for example. Okay, that's just the first step. The second
(12:42):
is I ask people how would you talk to a daughter,
a son, a sister, a nephew, a niece at that
age about believing that about themselves, I'm not good enough
for someone to want to spend time with me. How
would you talk to that kid? Talk to yourself that way?
Just literally inner dialogue. Hey, like, this feels really like
(13:03):
I can see you're really sad, But it has nothing
to do with you that you're home alone. It has
to do with X, Y and Z. Like it's truly
a dialogue as if you're talking to a child. And
then the third part is what is the opposite of
this belief? What is the opposite belief I'm not good
enough to spend time with I'm not capable of this thing,
(13:23):
I'm too lazy, I want too much. What is the
opposite of that contracted belief that this child is holding.
Start to just state that to yourself, because what it
does when we do that, science has shown it creates
new neural pathways in our brain. When you believe a
belief over and over again. Think about walking a path
(13:46):
through the forest, It's like you're treading this path over
and over. That's what a neural pathway is. It's how
a thought travels in your mind. When you believe that
contracted belief, you've built a pathway that's well trodden. When
you ask yourself, well, what's the opposite, you're introducing a
new pathway. And when you start to just think about
that thought, I'm not even asking you to believe it,
(14:07):
just think the thought, you're already starting to build the
new path. So I just want to encourage us, when
we think of inner child work, to set that aside
and say, you know what, Actually, it's identifying that I
am not the belief. There's another part of me that
has it. And it's a compassionate dialogue with this part,
as though I'm speaking to a child, because guess what
(14:28):
you are. That child still exists inside you, is still
making decisions for you, and it's still helping you see
the world in a really contracted way.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's interesting that you use the word contracted, because when
you first said it, my brain went to contracts, legal contracts.
And what you're saying is that it's a collapse, it's
an inward collapse. But I also go back to what
you said about this. When we deny our inner voice,
(14:58):
we've bought in this larger programming that we outsource our power,
so we have contracted with the programming, which causes us
to inwardly, you know, contract and so that we're not
feeling our own our own feelings.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Let's compare.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let's compare and contrast next the because I said so
and the what do you think mentalities as it relates
to people in general and to leaders.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I think that you know, I have had the opportunity
of coaching a lot of CEOs, some in the midst
of some really really stressful crises, some in a beautiful
moment of founding their business and building something that is
genuinely based off of an amazing idea. Many of the
products I'm sure you guys are using today. And I
will tell you that when the leader is actually tapped
(15:55):
into their inner wisdom to that intuitive knowing, it's a
lot calmer than because I said so. Because I said
so is an ego response. When I come in, you know,
I get asked a lot to come into organizations that
are just unhappy or not performing well. Usually that goes
(16:16):
back to the leader. This is not a blame game.
It's just that everything spills out and downward from the
authority figure. When I come into an organization like that,
and I notice one of two things. Either the leader
is operating from a place of not trusting themselves and
so they're frenetic, They're frantic, they're reactive, they're reacting to
(16:41):
whatever's coming to them. Or they do have a really
good clear vision but they are afraid of communicating it.
They are afraid of communicating why it matters, or they
don't know how they don't have the skills to connect
the dots for people. But in the situation where they
(17:05):
are frantic, that is when I noticed, because I said,
so happening more, Because what's happening is if you feel
destabilized as a human being and you still are in
a position of authority right there, there's a counter action happening.
(17:25):
Right You've got to lead people and inspire them to
follow you. But holy crap, you don't even know if
you could follow you right now because you don't believe
in the thing you're saying you are. You are doubting yourself.
In that moment when we are in that moment of
panic of destabilization and we still have to lead, what
happens is our ego jumps into high gear. It says, fine,
(17:50):
you can't handle this. You don't even trust yourself. I'm
going to perform. I'm going to project authority, and usually
I'm going to perform and project this authority by mimic,
mimicing things I've seen in the past, mimicking authority that
I've seen others present. Well, that's not authentic, right, that's
a performance. And so what happens is because I said so,
(18:15):
shows up to say, don't ask me any other questions
about this. I'm performing this thing. You have to buy
into what I'm performing. There's no there there. I haven't
done the work to figure out why I'm saying so.
When it's coming from an intuitive knowing, they know why
they're saying so, and they can explain it, then they
just need It's a second scenario of they might just
need the tools for how to communicate their why in
(18:37):
a way that's effective, but it's way calmer and it
doesn't come out with that defensive I said, do it
m hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It reminds me of my interview with Stephen Covey where
we talked about how the best leaders inspire trust and
it causes people to want to follow their leadership. Like
I think about to the John Maxwell Leadership podcast all
of the time, and he talks about empowered leaders And
(19:05):
if you are the only decision maker, or you're the
only person that is giving orders, or you're the only
person that everything has to get checked a box by,
you're not empowering others to be leaders. Do you agree
that leadership decisions and decisions in general within an organization,
(19:28):
if the leader at the very top, the CEO, is
truly empowering their team. Do you agree that decisions can
be made at the lowest common denominator, maybe at the
manager level or the director level. And if a CEO
or someone who's an entrepreneur is listening to this right now,
(19:50):
and they're going like, but what if they make the
wrong decision? How do you inspire people to trust their
own inner knowing and teach others to trust their own
inner knowing.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, decisions can only be made with the information and
the tools you have available to you. So think about
this like a step system or a mountain. Right if
someone is standing in the middle of that mountain, they're
able to see a certain view. They're only able to
see let's just say one thousand feet of circumference. So
(20:26):
in that thousand feet view that they have around them,
they can make decisions about what they need to do
to get from here to there. Then you go a
step higher. That person has a bigger view, a more
birds eye view. You go all the way to the
top of the mountain. That person can see the entire
city and how it's all connected. So when I help
(20:46):
with withinpowered decision making with leaders, the first thing I
look at is what information do they have to make
these decisions with? Because often what's happening is out of
a place of fear and can control. Leaders are hoarding information,
They're holding it close to the chest. Why I just
(21:07):
had had a CEO say this to me this week,
Well because other people won't understand it. And what I
say is, isn't it your job to help your leaders
understand it? And let me explain why. If you don't,
you don't have a succession plan, You're no good to
an acquirer, You're no good to your investors if you
(21:27):
don't have a succession plan, because if something happens to
you tomorrow, then they're investing in something that is going
to poof go away with you. And this happens in
founder cultures a lot where the founder is holding it
all so close because they're afraid that people won't know
what to do with the information, that they'll make bad decisions.
But usually people make bad decisions because they don't have
(21:49):
all the info. So that's first and foremost. Second, there's
appropriate decisions for appropriate levels. One of the things I
see leaders get into a lot is CEOs making decisions
for junior staff and leaving middle management out of it.
What's the problem there, middle management? Let's look at this
(22:11):
view perspective is in the forest looking at the trees. Oh,
this one needs that, this one needs that. This is
how this is growing in the shade. This one needs
more sun. If you're not able to see it close up,
you don't have the data. So it goes in reverse too,
when you're a leader making decisions that you shouldn't be
making because you're not in the day to day with people.
(22:32):
So it's really about understanding what purview do they have,
what are they experiencing every day? What are decisions that
are appropriate for their level? And am I arming them
with the right information and context to make those decisions
in a smart, empowered way. And then to answer your
question about intuition, First, of all you lead by example.
(22:54):
I'm on a mission to get everyone to talk about
intuition in a very practical, pragmatic way. It is not
woo woo. It's just a skill you have that you
use a thousand times a day. We just don't talk
about it because there's been a pr campaign against intuition
from the beginning of the scientific revolution and before that.
So just know that intuition is something that we all use.
(23:16):
Start talking about it. You know something's telling me we
got to go this way, my gut, whatever you're comfortable with,
start using the language of intuition, Start showing that you
trust your own inner wisdom, and then start helping other
people trust theirs by asking them smart questions that help
to get to the bottom of what they're really thinking
(23:37):
and help them decipher between a fear anxiety thought and
just a knowing wise thought when they're making a decision.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Talk to us about what you consider to be a
smart question good question.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
So smart questions are not leading questions. Oftentimes, we as
leaders already have a desired outcome we want to get
people to and so we're leading the witness. A smart
question is genuinely out of curiosity what makes you think
that way? What experience are you having right now that's
(24:12):
bringing that perspective forward. Then it's about helping the person
extrapolate forward, project forward from that decision. Okay, interesting, so
we make this move, how does that affect the team?
What happens in a year from now when we want
to grow, Like smart questions about taking that decision and
(24:32):
moving it forward and what might happen there. And then third,
it comes with a little bit of accountability back to
the person to say, let's make sure that this decision
has detail and specificity to it. So smart questions help
(24:53):
people get down to the specifics things that maybe they
didn't consider when they're making this decision. But you're not
doing all of that with the intent of talking them
out of it. You're doing it with the intent of
actually listening. So what I tell people is like put
on your investigative journalist hat, like you're really asking questions
(25:14):
to get answers and what will happen. Usually, if it's
not a good decision, people will talk themselves out of
it in ten minutes if you're good enough at guiding
them through it.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, you're not a detective, you're a journalist. Like, I
like that because that leading the witness statement is very
true in detective work. But if you're doing that in journalism,
then you're not actually going to get the real story,
which is really what you want, right.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
That's right. People hear themselves out loud and they haven't
thought something through, or they or they they can tell
it's not their wisdom, and then they'll sort of be like,
oh wait a minute, I need to now rethink this,
so help them. That's what I mean about deciphering between
is this truly your intuitive with or is this just
a reactive for your place that you're presenting this idea from.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I love that. Now let's let's shift gears a little bit.
Burnout crisis. We have all been through so much burnout
and really since the pandemic, it's almost like things are
kind of frozen in time. One of my friends this
morning said, I just feel like I really haven't truly learned, explored,
(26:32):
grown since twenty twenty, because you know, either everything's online
or it's just what's the what's It's kind of like
a what's the point When you get so burned out
and when you're in a leadership position, crises are going
to arise and crises. Fatigue is very very real. What
(26:54):
happens to people who are constantly under stress us that
can make them feel out of control or make them
feel like they have to have total control. And how
do we get people to re engage and reconnect authentically.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, you set it up top in. When your nervous
system is constantly triggered by stress, you're in fight or
flight all of the time. And your nervous system, we
as a species that were not built to be in
fight or flight consistently. Fight or flight is a survival
mechanism that was meant to kick in to make you
(27:35):
run away from whatever was going to harm you and
then go back to homeostaates go back to a steady state.
But right now, in the way that obviously society and
culture has evolved, we are constantly faced with stressors. So
we are at fight or flight all the time, which
means that your parasympathetic nervous system, the part of you
(27:57):
that triggers rest, that triggers groundedness, clarity, just you know,
a sense of well being. That's what your parasympathetic It
does not go online because we are constantly in this
stress mode. So you know, this is why I moved
away from just crisis management to being an intuitive leadership
(28:20):
coach because for me, the person the leader is a
whole human being. They're one system. Their life is inclusive
of their partnerships and their family and the companies they lead,
And so what I want to look at with them
is how can we look at you as a whole
human being and make sure you have a strategy in
(28:41):
place where stress is not your day to day living,
but that you're able to notice when stress is present,
that you're able to activate your parasympathetic so you can
get back to a place of calm, so we can
get you to think from clarity. When people learn how
to activate their parasympathetic that can be through breathing. Nature
(29:05):
is a fabulous antidote to stress. It can be just
going outside. It can be from spending little micro moments
on the things you enjoy, pausing and just doing something
you love for five minutes, whatever that is. But when
you build a strategy to activate your parasympathetic you won't
be in stress all the time and you won't be
(29:28):
in burnout. So it's really about learning that kind of
balance in your own life. Whatever makes sense for you.
And then this is the part that's hard, having the
discipline to stop yourself from feeding the stress. So when
you notice the stress and you know what the antidote is,
(29:51):
you know that it's a five minutes of breathing or
going outside, but you keep doing the thing that's stressing
you out. That's a habit you've gotten into, right, So
having the discipline to break the habit and say nope,
I have to do the other thing that's going to
activate my parasympathetic and then I see, I'm telling you
just start, all of you. One tool I'll give you
(30:12):
is the four to seven eight breath. All that is
is you breathe in for four through your nose, hold
your breath for seven seconds, exhale through your mouth for
eight seconds. Do that three times. You would be shocked.
The CEOs I sit across from Zoom and I have
them start a session like that, and the whole thing shifts.
Their whole energy shifts because the parasympathetic came online. So
(30:35):
even if you do that, you'll find a way to
avoid stress being your constant.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And I remember back when I first started meditating and
first started doing intuitive breathing and all of these box
breaths and four seven eight breaths and all of that.
It actually caused a lot of stress because for many people,
being able to do that big inhale and fill up
the lungs exhale and that pause is often, I think
(31:07):
the hardest part of just like nothing's happening. Nothing's happening,
something's supposed to be happening.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
But that's why it's a practice.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
That's why it is a practice that takes time to craft.
Practicing getting into the parasympathetic nervous system is something that
I think can be culture wide within corporations. When I
worked at Kaiser Permanente, we had prompts that would come
up on our computer and just say like, hey, it's
(31:38):
time to stretch your wrists, time to stand up, time
to go take a walk, you came back from lunch
twenty minutes early, Like what's going on? Oftentimes I think
leaders can kind of consider that to be why aren't
they being more productive? And so how do you encourage
a balance that allows people to stay in this right
(32:02):
mindedness of you need a little bit of sympathetic because
we need a little bit of stress to get the
job done. But the balance of the parasympathetic to the sympathetic.
The parasympathetic is winning because that is where not only
good decision making and clarity and consciousness can come from,
(32:23):
but it's also where compassion and empathy and trust in
your fellow man versus like being panicked that so and
so is not doing their job, so I can't do
my job. Where do you think that balance lies and
how can leaders better craft it?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I'm going to push back on one thing you said
that I think is a limiting belief system of corporate
cultures which need a little bit of stress to get
the job done.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh tell me more.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You need purpose to get the job done. And I
don't mean capital p purpose, I mean why does this matter?
That's what gets the job done. When you, as an individual,
can connect your responsibilities, your tasks for that day, to
(33:11):
something greater, and when you can connect that something greater
to your own values, that is motivation enough. It's about
understanding why you're doing it. If you can connect why
you're doing it to something that fulfills you, you will
be motivated. You don't need to be stressed out to
(33:32):
be motivated. So that's the first thing. Now ask me
your question again.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Wow, Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
What I was saying was when I worked at Kaiser,
we had breaks, but breaks and parasympathetic can often seem
like lack of productivity.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Productivity.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes, let's go there.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yes, okay, so listen, I want all of you leaders
to know. Take it from someone who first of all
sat inside a massive organization, but also then is now
talking to your employees. A lot of this productivity is
not real. It's a performance. It's a lot of pretending
(34:13):
that they're being productive. You do not want quantity, you
want quality. So I'm going to challenge you all to
really look at that word productivity. What do you want
them to produce? Why? And is the timeline that you've
(34:34):
created a strategic timeline or is it coming out of
a reactive place from you. Usually pressurized timelines are to
me a sign of anxiety from the leader, not always
connected to an actual need. This obviously is different different industries.
Like when you're producing a product, there's a whole supply
(34:57):
chain that's waiting on you. Timelines matter. Saying they don't,
I'm just saying, check in with yourself first to understand, like,
why have I decided that this has to happen in
this amount of time? Is that strategic? What do I
want my employees to produce? And do they have the
resources to produce it? Oftentimes those questions and answers create
(35:25):
better productivity than you need to be sitting at your
desk nine hours a day. Why aren't you here at
eight am? Why did I see you leave at five?
We're looking at the wrong symptoms. What we need to
be looking at is do they understand their jobs? Do
they know why they're doing it? Do we have appropriate timelines?
Do they have what they need? If you can answer
those things and then just watch watch your team produce,
(35:49):
watch them be motivated, and don't forget I said they
need to be connected to the purpose. So if you're
not articulating your why, they don't.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Know why they're there, well, it's a I wouldn't exactly
call it an age, old adage, but it's that whole
thing of you take two stonemasons and one's just building
bricks and one's building a cathedral, and one's feeding their
family because they are building a cathedral, you know, and
so there is that purpose behind what they're getting. Professionally, like, Okay, yeah,
(36:24):
I'm going to see that we got this product to market.
But because we got that product to market, my kids
can go to summer camp, or my I can go
back and get my master's or whatever. That bigger picture
is that allows people to kind of you know, it's
kind of cliche, but that vision board of like, I
really do want that home in Hawaii one of these days.
(36:48):
And therefore, even though I don't like doing taxes, doing
taxes matters those types of things.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
That's way more motivating than cracking a whip around the
number of hours someone is clocking in.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, talk to us about your trust acronym.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, So I created this acronym just to help people
really understand that they are intuitive and help them decipher
between fear and intuition, which, by the way, is the
number one unlocking tool to trusting and hearing your intuition.
More is telling the difference between a fear thought and
(37:28):
an intuitive thought. So trust is about one tuning in
to the thought. Just recognize when something intuitive comes up,
tune in. Then recognize what that feeling feels like in
your body, in your system. When something just drops in
(37:48):
like a knowing, recognize the feeling. Is it calm? Is
it expansive. What does it feel like when something intuitive
shows up? Recognize that feeling. Then understand when fear pops
up and what it's trying to do. It's just trying
to protect you. So the fear thought is going to
(38:11):
show up even when you have intuition about something. I,
for example, left a very long career in crisis management
and pr to start my own thing. That was intuitive,
but you better believe the fear thought was like, are
you crazy, You're a single mom, how are you going
to provide? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So understand what the fear
thought is trying to do. Oh, you're just trying to
(38:32):
protect me, and then start following the intuitive thought even
when you feel the fear. Just start just when you
understand this is an intuitive thought because I've recognized the
difference between the fear. I know what the fear is
trying to do, but I know this is a calm thought.
I'm just going to start following it. And then tea
(38:55):
is really about taking your power back, because the minute
that you start following that and tuition, you start feeling
more powerful. You start understanding that you truly have all
the answers that you need, and you start trusting yourself
more and that feels more empowering in your system.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I love that so much, following that intuitive thought. A
lot of people know about paying things forward, but you've
already mentioned it one time, and I'll just hammer it
home here playing things through and just playing through, like, well,
I think this might work. What might it look like?
(39:39):
What resources would I need? What people would I need?
Let me just play through this scenario and it almost
becomes it almost becomes a creative venture at that point,
And I love I love that idea so much of
just like just follow the path, see where it goes, because,
(40:02):
as you've already told us, if it is truly a
bad idea that's in your gut, you're gonna figure it
out pretty dang quick, because you're gonna go like, wow,
we don't have the capital to do that, or I
don't have the resources as a human being or as
a parent or as a colleague to accomplish that task
on that timeline, whatever it may be. I love how
(40:26):
you have mentioned that the opposite of intuition is fear
and not to get to spiritual. But my friend and
I were debating the other day, like what is a sin.
You know, if we talk about like sin, and we
ultimately came down to when you know that you have
something in your gut that is God given intuition and
(40:47):
you just deny it, what could be worse because that's
gonna lead to that shame, the regret, the guilt, the
and ultimately you look back on it and.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
You go, why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Why did I do that? So for those of you
that want to do a little bit of a deeper
dive into politics, let's dive into it. The political landscape
is ugly, is one way to put it. A deep breath,
deep breath, deep breath. It's polarizing, to say the least,
(41:25):
and the twenty four hour news cycle has done so
much detriment I think to our brains and to our culture.
I was recently, I was recently on a retreat and
the housekeepers that sat overnight, one of them we would
wake up and CNN would be on, and one we
(41:46):
would wake up in Fox News would be on and
we'd be like, can you turn that off? It's like
five point thirty in the morning, you know what I mean? So,
how do you think that the political landscape has caused
people to look outward instead of inward for answers.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Oh, lindsay, where do I start at the beginning? Yeah, listen,
my family is from Iran. It is now the Islamic
Republic of Iran. They obviously fled before it became that.
So I'm going to tell you something about a very
old playbook, which is that any system that wants to
(42:26):
have power is going to teach people to fear one
another period because it's so distracting. It so taps into
a visceral part of us as humans, which is, oh
my god, if I don't understand it, it could hurt me.
(42:47):
And people play on that to make you feel that
you are in more danger than you are, so that
you can be distracted. And what are you distracted from
listening into your own inner knowing? Because when you listen in,
actually look at that person and you think, oh, you're
just human like me, You're not scary, or hey, this
(43:08):
thing you're telling me authority figure, that's not good for me.
I know that in my soul. But you don't listen in,
you don't trust. And I think that the twenty four
hour media feeds this because where do they make their money?
They make their money from you tuning in. And so
there is something called a negativity bias where when we
(43:31):
believe something like fear, we look for more things that
will look like that. And so if you're already in
the programming that says fear each other, so you can
get distracted, what is the media going to play on
It's going to also play on your fear. It's going
to continue to present information in a way. You know,
(43:51):
like we always laugh about the breaking news headline on
these cable news shows, and it's like, that's not breaking news.
There used to be a time when there was breaking news.
I've left that time. But that is to get your
attention and startle you. We talked in your episode about
fight or flight and triggering the stress response. I tell
people now all the time. Look, I did crisis management
for twenty years. I know what happens. I know what
(44:13):
it looks like to be purposely triggered into a crisis.
We are being purposely triggered into being in a fair state.
And so I think that what I ask of people
is this, do you have to be tuned in all
the time? And if the answer is yes, what is
that doing for you? There was a time for me
(44:36):
around the election, where what it was doing was like
assuaging my anxiety with the story, the belief that if
I knew every single detail, I was somehow in control.
Guess what I was not. So the awareness of why
why am I tuning in so much to something that
does not feel good is a really good question to
ask yourself. And then I want people to know that actually,
(44:58):
when you look through history, and I'm a big history nerd,
I could talk to a whole other episode with you
on history, because I believe that history is a road map.
It's showing us don't do this, do that. We're meant
to learn from it. But if you look back in
history at any moments that were chaotic, that created harm
(45:21):
in any way, the pathway out of it started in community.
It started in neighborhoods. It started locally. So rather than
focus your energy on, oh my god, it's the end
of days out there somewhere in the world, and make
no mistake, harm is happening. That's true, and in every
way all the time, turn your attention to what how
(45:45):
do I show up in my family, in my neighborhood,
in my community that honors things like connection, empathy, you know,
being together in a way that feels good. Those kinds
of things throughout history have gotten us through the darkest moments,
(46:06):
darker moments than this is just focusing locally.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
It reminds me so I was I am a Christian,
was raised Christian, and I remember when my my church
doesn't do much missionary work, but for whatever reason, there
was a group of preachers that were called to East
Africa and there was a group of Muslims in the neighborhood,
(46:33):
in the village, and they one of the preachers said,
just go offer them a meal, offer them the opportunity
to come and sit with us and eat with us.
And I remember in post nine to eleven there was
a protest and there was a Muslim woman who was
holding up a sign that says, you can't be mad
(46:55):
at us, we gave you full offel. And I just thought,
what a perfect way to summarize what you're just saying.
My listeners have heard me say this so many times,
and it's not my own quote. I can't claim it.
I just have forgotten who said it. Your soul is
village sized. We're not meant to know the breaking news
(47:19):
that's happening all over the world. We're meant to handle
how we show up for ourselves, our family, our colleagues,
and in our community. I think that that is such
a beautiful way that we can actually unite instead of
doing stunts intended to unite us. Mari this has been
(47:43):
such a fascinating conversation. I am so grateful that I
got to know you a little bit better. Listeners, please
go pick up a copy of Higher Self, How to
shift from overwhelmed to inner agency, how and why people
are disengaging, and how to reconnect with the authentically, and
how we can move beyond all of these external experts
(48:05):
and political narratives into self trust. To find out more
about Maury and all of the work that she does
with eight twenty two, please go to www dot Moriyfontanez
dot com and follow her on Instagram. Mariyfontanez, Maury, thank
you so much for coming in today and being a
(48:26):
guest on The Lindsayelmore Show.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Lindsay, thank you for having me. It was a great conversation.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
The Lindsaylmore Show is written and produced by me. Lindsey
Elmore Show segments are produced by Sue Froco and Mike Martin.
Sound design and editing is by Jive Media. You can
donate to our show by heading to Lindsaylmore dot com
slash podcast, or if you would like to be a
(48:53):
supporter of the show, head to Lindsaylmore dot com slash Supporter.
Your contribution helps us to bring the best guests into
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wherever you listen to podcasts. Share this episode and all
(49:18):
of your favorite episodes with a friend and on social media,
be sure to tag at Lindsay Elmore Show and help
us bring the pod to more people.
Welcome back everybody to this week's edition of The Lindsay
Elmore Show. Today, we're going to be talking about burnout,
about reactivity, and about how we can get to true
self trust. Reactivity and being in fight or flight is
leading to burnout, division, and oftentimes making decisions that lead
(00:21):
to regret. We talk about how we can slow down,
tune in, and respond with clarity instead of simply reacting
to the situation around us. Crises are everywhere, and we
all get fatigued from them. When we live in a
(00:42):
constant state of stress, we tend to either lash out
or completely shut down. Our political climate isn't helping, it's
creating a similar effect where people simply feel like they
are out of control. Let's talk today about how we
(01:02):
are outsourcing our intuition and how we can move towards
true self trust. We're going to talk about what is
intuition and how it can be used. We're going to
talk about some of the biggest mistakes that leaders make
when they distrust their intuition, and how they can ask
(01:24):
very smart questions to help people discover whether their own
innate intuition is something that should be followed or whether
that first idea can be re thought. Let's talk about
how fear is the absolute opposite of intuition. With Maury Fontanez.
(01:46):
We're going to talk about how we can help ourselves
and our organizations to help elevate our consciousness. Maury has
written a book Higher Self, Reclaiming the Power of your Intuition,
and the book gives guiding principles not only for executives
(02:07):
and entrepreneurs, but for people in general, especially those who
feel like they're constantly living in fight or flight, and
it helps them to shift into better decision making capacities.
This is the Lindsay Elmore Show.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Welcome to The Lindsay Elmore Show, a podcast for people
who deserve to be healthy. With honest, open and enlightening
conversations with doctors, thought leaders, creatives and spiritual gurus, you'll
walk away with simple and tangible tips and tricks that
allow you to live your healthiest life so you can
(02:44):
pursue your dreams, overcome obstacles, and leave your mark. Marie
Fontanez is a.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Sought after intuitive life and leadership coach and the founder
of eight twenty two Group, a consultancy that helps organizations
elevate their consciousness. After a notable career as a crisis
manager for Fortune five hundred companies, Maury realized that many
leaders fail because they are disconnected from their intuition and purpose.
(03:15):
As an intuitive coach, Maury guides c suite leaders, performers,
and other public personalities to reconnect with their inner wisdom
to successfully navigate change, challenges, and growth. Her work is
essential today to help move our society away from divisiveness
(03:36):
towards empathy, empowerment, and unity. Her first book, Higher Self,
Reclaiming the Power of Your Intuition is published by HarperCollins
and is available anywhere where you purchase books. Maury Fontanez,
Welcome to the Lindsay Elmore Show.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Hi, Lindsay, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm so excited to talk to you because this is
so such a timely topic that we are going to
be discussing today. This morning, when I was in therapy,
we started with a three hour long rip on shame
and how we process shame and healthy ways of processing
shame include just saying like, dang it, I really messed up.
(04:19):
I hurt that person's feelings. I'm gonna apologize and not
do that again. But more often we tend to either
fight flight, freeze or fawn just to make other people
either happy or to tell them I'm going to make
you feel as bad as I do, or we just go.
I don't know what to do. And this morning I
(04:40):
was very upset that everyone told me I am the
type of person who tends to fawn, and I was like,
no way, you guys, this makes me so angry. And
this is a group that I've been in for a
very long time. We all know each other very well,
the trust is very deep. And they proceeded to list
(05:01):
dozens and dozens of ways that I neglect my inner
truth and that I do not trust myself. And in
your new book, Higher Self, one of the things that
you talk about is the self trust revolution. And you've
advised some really top executives through some intense crises, and
(05:27):
you've noticed some mistakes about outsourcing intuition, outsourcing power and
really just getting stuck in either fight flight freeze or
fawn or what have you learned along the way about
how people look for that external validation versus trusting their
internal compass.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
First of all, Lindsay, I have to tell you I'm
in the fawn club with you, there's no shame in
there at all. I absolutely have people pleasing as part
of my system of survival. And that's what's important to
know that these are strategies for survival that very very
young versions of us create to just understand the world,
(06:10):
because the world is so big and complicated and beyond
our understanding when we're younger, and so we have to
build limiting beliefs about ourselves to make sense of why
mom is acting this way, or Dad seems that way,
or my friends are treating me this way. And so,
you know, I think that all of us fall into
fight fight freeze are fun, and the awareness of it
(06:33):
is truly the unluck. And so I think to answer
your question, you know, when I say we're in the
self trust revolution, really what I mean is that every
single answer that you seek exists within you, every single answer.
You have the wisdom within you to know what to
(06:54):
do next at all times. And if something about my
words is surprising or shocking or uncomfortable, then there's your
evidence right there that you've been trained to externalize your wisdom.
If you are surprised that I'm telling you you know
the answers within you, that's proof that you've been part
(07:18):
of a larger programming that tells us that intelligence and
wisdom comes from outside sources. And that happens for a
lot of reasons we don't have to get into and
it's happened for so long that we don't really know
how to stop and pause and notice that we're not
(07:39):
being taught to trust ourselves. But one way I even
notice in raising my own kids I have teenagers, is
having to stop myself from give them advice and just
start with, well, what do you think I really trust
your wisdom? What do you think about this? I'm not
saying that means let them go do what they want
to do. I'm saying, just eat. Even in that conversation,
(08:01):
you're training their brain to start to believe, oh, I've
got wisdom in me. So there's a million things that
we run into as we grow up where we could
be taught to look inward, but we're taught instead to
trust the authority, figure, to trust the news, to trust
the teacher, to trust whatever is external instead of the
(08:23):
and model I'm trying to preach, which is look internal
first and then from their seek guidance and wisdom from
others instead of handing all of that wisdom and outsourcing
it all to others. And I think to answer your
question about leaders, you know, leaders do this a lot
because they have a lot of noise that they have
(08:43):
to manage. They have board members, they have shareholders, they
have customers, they have employees, And often when I'm called
in on a crisis, it's because what's happening is the
noise of all of those people and their needs and
their expectations is outweighing the inner knowing of that leader.
And what I'm there to just remind them is you're
(09:05):
here for a reason. You're leading this company, this brand,
this organization for a reason. Can we get back to
what that is and what you truly know at the
core of your being, and then we can talk about
why you didn't listen to that self, because that usually
is why we end up in a crisis situation.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It leads me to two to two questions, and I
think they can kind of come together. Oftentimes, when I
read quote self help books or I really do a
deep dive into my own personal development, a lot of
things come back to this very young version of ourselves
(09:44):
where we don't have the vocabulary, the tools, the skill sets.
I heard doctor Keisha Rrs one time say anything that
you've never experienced, you initially experience as a trauma, just
because you've never been through it before. So everything in
this very young version of ourselves can be quite traumatic.
(10:07):
Now that leads me to the question of, well, if
everything got messed up in childhood, how do I repair
it now? And kind of as an add on to that,
what you are doing in asking your children what do
you think? Is fundamentally different than the because I said
(10:29):
so model, which I think a lot of executive leaders
also fall into when they think they've got that intuition,
but they're not communicating a mission, a vision, a plan,
whatever it is. So talk to us first about, like, well,
that inner child work that we know we're supposed to
(10:51):
be doing but seems so fundamentally hard. And where's the
balance between this what do you think? And the seven
hour long meetings that never come to an end and
the do it because I said so?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Model?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Or are both valid at some points?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, two really good questions. Let's start with the inner
child work. I think that anytime a phrase is repeated
too much in a self help space, it loses its power.
And I think right now, inner child work is cant
follow in that category. So I'm gonna just make it
really simple for you. This quote unquote work is really
(11:33):
just about three things. When you notice yourself believing something
that feels bad in your system, and you know what
that means. I'm not gonna tell you whatever bad feels
like to you. For me, it feels like pressure on
my chest, shortness of breath, stress. You know, it shows
(11:53):
up in most of the time a contracted way. That
just means you're pulling inWORD. There's heaviness when a thought
creates that contracted feeling. The first part of this is
just to ask who believes this? Which part of me
believes this thing that's making me feel small? Period? And
(12:18):
I'm telling you your consciousness is so connected to you,
obviously it will deliver the answer pretty quickly if you
don't consternate on it, if you don't put pressure on yourself.
But if you're just calm, who believes this? Oh? Okay,
this is like me when I'm five and I'm home
alone a lot, so I'm believing something about like being lonely,
for example. Okay, that's just the first step. The second
(12:42):
is I ask people how would you talk to a daughter,
a son, a sister, a nephew, a niece at that
age about believing that about themselves, I'm not good enough
for someone to want to spend time with me. How
would you talk to that kid? Talk to yourself that way?
Just literally inner dialogue. Hey, like, this feels really like
(13:03):
I can see you're really sad, But it has nothing
to do with you that you're home alone. It has
to do with X, Y and Z. Like it's truly
a dialogue as if you're talking to a child. And
then the third part is what is the opposite of
this belief? What is the opposite belief I'm not good
enough to spend time with I'm not capable of this thing,
(13:23):
I'm too lazy, I want too much. What is the
opposite of that contracted belief that this child is holding.
Start to just state that to yourself, because what it
does when we do that, science has shown it creates
new neural pathways in our brain. When you believe a
belief over and over again. Think about walking a path
(13:46):
through the forest, It's like you're treading this path over
and over. That's what a neural pathway is. It's how
a thought travels in your mind. When you believe that
contracted belief, you've built a pathway that's well trodden. When
you ask yourself, well, what's the opposite, you're introducing a
new pathway. And when you start to just think about
that thought, I'm not even asking you to believe it,
(14:07):
just think the thought, you're already starting to build the
new path. So I just want to encourage us, when
we think of inner child work, to set that aside
and say, you know what, Actually, it's identifying that I
am not the belief. There's another part of me that
has it. And it's a compassionate dialogue with this part,
as though I'm speaking to a child, because guess what
(14:28):
you are. That child still exists inside you, is still
making decisions for you, and it's still helping you see
the world in a really contracted way.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's interesting that you use the word contracted, because when
you first said it, my brain went to contracts, legal contracts.
And what you're saying is that it's a collapse, it's
an inward collapse. But I also go back to what
you said about this. When we deny our inner voice,
(14:58):
we've bought in this larger programming that we outsource our power,
so we have contracted with the programming, which causes us
to inwardly, you know, contract and so that we're not
feeling our own our own feelings.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Let's compare.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Let's compare and contrast next the because I said so
and the what do you think mentalities as it relates
to people in general and to leaders.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I think that you know, I have had the opportunity
of coaching a lot of CEOs, some in the midst
of some really really stressful crises, some in a beautiful
moment of founding their business and building something that is
genuinely based off of an amazing idea. Many of the
products I'm sure you guys are using today. And I
will tell you that when the leader is actually tapped
(15:55):
into their inner wisdom to that intuitive knowing, it's a
lot calmer than because I said so. Because I said
so is an ego response. When I come in, you know,
I get asked a lot to come into organizations that
are just unhappy or not performing well. Usually that goes
(16:16):
back to the leader. This is not a blame game.
It's just that everything spills out and downward from the
authority figure. When I come into an organization like that,
and I notice one of two things. Either the leader
is operating from a place of not trusting themselves and
so they're frenetic, They're frantic, they're reactive, they're reacting to
(16:41):
whatever's coming to them. Or they do have a really
good clear vision but they are afraid of communicating it.
They are afraid of communicating why it matters, or they
don't know how they don't have the skills to connect
the dots for people. But in the situation where they
(17:05):
are frantic, that is when I noticed, because I said,
so happening more, Because what's happening is if you feel
destabilized as a human being and you still are in
a position of authority right there, there's a counter action happening.
(17:25):
Right You've got to lead people and inspire them to
follow you. But holy crap, you don't even know if
you could follow you right now because you don't believe
in the thing you're saying you are. You are doubting yourself.
In that moment when we are in that moment of
panic of destabilization and we still have to lead, what
happens is our ego jumps into high gear. It says, fine,
(17:50):
you can't handle this. You don't even trust yourself. I'm
going to perform. I'm going to project authority, and usually
I'm going to perform and project this authority by mimic,
mimicing things I've seen in the past, mimicking authority that
I've seen others present. Well, that's not authentic, right, that's
a performance. And so what happens is because I said so,
(18:15):
shows up to say, don't ask me any other questions
about this. I'm performing this thing. You have to buy
into what I'm performing. There's no there there. I haven't
done the work to figure out why I'm saying so.
When it's coming from an intuitive knowing, they know why
they're saying so, and they can explain it, then they
just need It's a second scenario of they might just
need the tools for how to communicate their why in
(18:37):
a way that's effective, but it's way calmer and it
doesn't come out with that defensive I said, do it
m hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It reminds me of my interview with Stephen Covey where
we talked about how the best leaders inspire trust and
it causes people to want to follow their leadership. Like
I think about to the John Maxwell Leadership podcast all
of the time, and he talks about empowered leaders And
(19:05):
if you are the only decision maker, or you're the
only person that is giving orders, or you're the only
person that everything has to get checked a box by,
you're not empowering others to be leaders. Do you agree
that leadership decisions and decisions in general within an organization,
(19:28):
if the leader at the very top, the CEO, is
truly empowering their team. Do you agree that decisions can
be made at the lowest common denominator, maybe at the
manager level or the director level. And if a CEO
or someone who's an entrepreneur is listening to this right now,
(19:50):
and they're going like, but what if they make the
wrong decision? How do you inspire people to trust their
own inner knowing and teach others to trust their own
inner knowing.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, decisions can only be made with the information and
the tools you have available to you. So think about
this like a step system or a mountain. Right if
someone is standing in the middle of that mountain, they're
able to see a certain view. They're only able to
see let's just say one thousand feet of circumference. So
(20:26):
in that thousand feet view that they have around them,
they can make decisions about what they need to do
to get from here to there. Then you go a
step higher. That person has a bigger view, a more
birds eye view. You go all the way to the
top of the mountain. That person can see the entire
city and how it's all connected. So when I help
(20:46):
with withinpowered decision making with leaders, the first thing I
look at is what information do they have to make
these decisions with? Because often what's happening is out of
a place of fear and can control. Leaders are hoarding information,
They're holding it close to the chest. Why I just
(21:07):
had had a CEO say this to me this week,
Well because other people won't understand it. And what I
say is, isn't it your job to help your leaders
understand it? And let me explain why. If you don't,
you don't have a succession plan, You're no good to
an acquirer, You're no good to your investors if you
(21:27):
don't have a succession plan, because if something happens to
you tomorrow, then they're investing in something that is going
to poof go away with you. And this happens in
founder cultures a lot where the founder is holding it
all so close because they're afraid that people won't know
what to do with the information, that they'll make bad decisions.
But usually people make bad decisions because they don't have
(21:49):
all the info. So that's first and foremost. Second, there's
appropriate decisions for appropriate levels. One of the things I
see leaders get into a lot is CEOs making decisions
for junior staff and leaving middle management out of it.
What's the problem there, middle management? Let's look at this
(22:11):
view perspective is in the forest looking at the trees. Oh,
this one needs that, this one needs that. This is
how this is growing in the shade. This one needs
more sun. If you're not able to see it close up,
you don't have the data. So it goes in reverse too,
when you're a leader making decisions that you shouldn't be
making because you're not in the day to day with people.
(22:32):
So it's really about understanding what purview do they have,
what are they experiencing every day? What are decisions that
are appropriate for their level? And am I arming them
with the right information and context to make those decisions
in a smart, empowered way. And then to answer your
question about intuition, First, of all you lead by example.
(22:54):
I'm on a mission to get everyone to talk about
intuition in a very practical, pragmatic way. It is not
woo woo. It's just a skill you have that you
use a thousand times a day. We just don't talk
about it because there's been a pr campaign against intuition
from the beginning of the scientific revolution and before that.
So just know that intuition is something that we all use.
(23:16):
Start talking about it. You know something's telling me we
got to go this way, my gut, whatever you're comfortable with,
start using the language of intuition, Start showing that you
trust your own inner wisdom, and then start helping other
people trust theirs by asking them smart questions that help
to get to the bottom of what they're really thinking
(23:37):
and help them decipher between a fear anxiety thought and
just a knowing wise thought when they're making a decision.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Talk to us about what you consider to be a
smart question good question.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
So smart questions are not leading questions. Oftentimes, we as
leaders already have a desired outcome we want to get
people to and so we're leading the witness. A smart
question is genuinely out of curiosity what makes you think
that way? What experience are you having right now that's
(24:12):
bringing that perspective forward. Then it's about helping the person
extrapolate forward, project forward from that decision. Okay, interesting, so
we make this move, how does that affect the team?
What happens in a year from now when we want
to grow, Like smart questions about taking that decision and
(24:32):
moving it forward and what might happen there. And then third,
it comes with a little bit of accountability back to
the person to say, let's make sure that this decision
has detail and specificity to it. So smart questions help
(24:53):
people get down to the specifics things that maybe they
didn't consider when they're making this decision. But you're not
doing all of that with the intent of talking them
out of it. You're doing it with the intent of
actually listening. So what I tell people is like put
on your investigative journalist hat, like you're really asking questions
(25:14):
to get answers and what will happen. Usually, if it's
not a good decision, people will talk themselves out of
it in ten minutes if you're good enough at guiding
them through it.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, you're not a detective, you're a journalist. Like, I
like that because that leading the witness statement is very
true in detective work. But if you're doing that in journalism,
then you're not actually going to get the real story,
which is really what you want, right.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
That's right. People hear themselves out loud and they haven't
thought something through, or they or they they can tell
it's not their wisdom, and then they'll sort of be like,
oh wait a minute, I need to now rethink this,
so help them. That's what I mean about deciphering between
is this truly your intuitive with or is this just
a reactive for your place that you're presenting this idea from.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I love that. Now let's let's shift gears a little bit.
Burnout crisis. We have all been through so much burnout
and really since the pandemic, it's almost like things are
kind of frozen in time. One of my friends this
morning said, I just feel like I really haven't truly learned, explored,
(26:32):
grown since twenty twenty, because you know, either everything's online
or it's just what's the what's It's kind of like
a what's the point When you get so burned out
and when you're in a leadership position, crises are going
to arise and crises. Fatigue is very very real. What
(26:54):
happens to people who are constantly under stress us that
can make them feel out of control or make them
feel like they have to have total control. And how
do we get people to re engage and reconnect authentically.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, you set it up top in. When your nervous
system is constantly triggered by stress, you're in fight or
flight all of the time. And your nervous system, we
as a species that were not built to be in
fight or flight consistently. Fight or flight is a survival
mechanism that was meant to kick in to make you
(27:35):
run away from whatever was going to harm you and
then go back to homeostaates go back to a steady state.
But right now, in the way that obviously society and
culture has evolved, we are constantly faced with stressors. So
we are at fight or flight all the time, which
means that your parasympathetic nervous system, the part of you
(27:57):
that triggers rest, that triggers groundedness, clarity, just you know,
a sense of well being. That's what your parasympathetic It
does not go online because we are constantly in this
stress mode. So you know, this is why I moved
away from just crisis management to being an intuitive leadership
(28:20):
coach because for me, the person the leader is a
whole human being. They're one system. Their life is inclusive
of their partnerships and their family and the companies they lead,
And so what I want to look at with them
is how can we look at you as a whole
human being and make sure you have a strategy in
(28:41):
place where stress is not your day to day living,
but that you're able to notice when stress is present,
that you're able to activate your parasympathetic so you can
get back to a place of calm, so we can
get you to think from clarity. When people learn how
to activate their parasympathetic that can be through breathing. Nature
(29:05):
is a fabulous antidote to stress. It can be just
going outside. It can be from spending little micro moments
on the things you enjoy, pausing and just doing something
you love for five minutes, whatever that is. But when
you build a strategy to activate your parasympathetic you won't
be in stress all the time and you won't be
(29:28):
in burnout. So it's really about learning that kind of
balance in your own life. Whatever makes sense for you.
And then this is the part that's hard, having the
discipline to stop yourself from feeding the stress. So when
you notice the stress and you know what the antidote is,
(29:51):
you know that it's a five minutes of breathing or
going outside, but you keep doing the thing that's stressing
you out. That's a habit you've gotten into, right, So
having the discipline to break the habit and say nope,
I have to do the other thing that's going to
activate my parasympathetic and then I see, I'm telling you
just start, all of you. One tool I'll give you
(30:12):
is the four to seven eight breath. All that is
is you breathe in for four through your nose, hold
your breath for seven seconds, exhale through your mouth for
eight seconds. Do that three times. You would be shocked.
The CEOs I sit across from Zoom and I have
them start a session like that, and the whole thing shifts.
Their whole energy shifts because the parasympathetic came online. So
(30:35):
even if you do that, you'll find a way to
avoid stress being your constant.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And I remember back when I first started meditating and
first started doing intuitive breathing and all of these box
breaths and four seven eight breaths and all of that.
It actually caused a lot of stress because for many people,
being able to do that big inhale and fill up
the lungs exhale and that pause is often, I think
(31:07):
the hardest part of just like nothing's happening. Nothing's happening,
something's supposed to be happening.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
But that's why it's a practice.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
That's why it is a practice that takes time to craft.
Practicing getting into the parasympathetic nervous system is something that
I think can be culture wide within corporations. When I
worked at Kaiser Permanente, we had prompts that would come
up on our computer and just say like, hey, it's
(31:38):
time to stretch your wrists, time to stand up, time
to go take a walk, you came back from lunch
twenty minutes early, Like what's going on? Oftentimes I think
leaders can kind of consider that to be why aren't
they being more productive? And so how do you encourage
a balance that allows people to stay in this right
(32:02):
mindedness of you need a little bit of sympathetic because
we need a little bit of stress to get the
job done. But the balance of the parasympathetic to the sympathetic.
The parasympathetic is winning because that is where not only
good decision making and clarity and consciousness can come from,
(32:23):
but it's also where compassion and empathy and trust in
your fellow man versus like being panicked that so and
so is not doing their job, so I can't do
my job. Where do you think that balance lies and
how can leaders better craft it?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I'm going to push back on one thing you said
that I think is a limiting belief system of corporate
cultures which need a little bit of stress to get
the job done.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh tell me more.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You need purpose to get the job done. And I
don't mean capital p purpose, I mean why does this matter?
That's what gets the job done. When you, as an individual,
can connect your responsibilities, your tasks for that day, to
(33:11):
something greater, and when you can connect that something greater
to your own values, that is motivation enough. It's about
understanding why you're doing it. If you can connect why
you're doing it to something that fulfills you, you will
be motivated. You don't need to be stressed out to
(33:32):
be motivated. So that's the first thing. Now ask me
your question again.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Wow, Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
What I was saying was when I worked at Kaiser,
we had breaks, but breaks and parasympathetic can often seem
like lack of productivity.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Productivity.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes, let's go there.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yes, okay, so listen, I want all of you leaders
to know. Take it from someone who first of all
sat inside a massive organization, but also then is now
talking to your employees. A lot of this productivity is
not real. It's a performance. It's a lot of pretending
(34:13):
that they're being productive. You do not want quantity, you
want quality. So I'm going to challenge you all to
really look at that word productivity. What do you want
them to produce? Why? And is the timeline that you've
(34:34):
created a strategic timeline or is it coming out of
a reactive place from you. Usually pressurized timelines are to
me a sign of anxiety from the leader, not always
connected to an actual need. This obviously is different different industries.
Like when you're producing a product, there's a whole supply
(34:57):
chain that's waiting on you. Timelines matter. Saying they don't,
I'm just saying, check in with yourself first to understand, like,
why have I decided that this has to happen in
this amount of time? Is that strategic? What do I
want my employees to produce? And do they have the
resources to produce it? Oftentimes those questions and answers create
(35:25):
better productivity than you need to be sitting at your
desk nine hours a day. Why aren't you here at
eight am? Why did I see you leave at five?
We're looking at the wrong symptoms. What we need to
be looking at is do they understand their jobs? Do
they know why they're doing it? Do we have appropriate timelines?
Do they have what they need? If you can answer
those things and then just watch watch your team produce,
(35:49):
watch them be motivated, and don't forget I said they
need to be connected to the purpose. So if you're
not articulating your why, they don't.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Know why they're there, well, it's a I wouldn't exactly
call it an age, old adage, but it's that whole
thing of you take two stonemasons and one's just building
bricks and one's building a cathedral, and one's feeding their
family because they are building a cathedral, you know, and
so there is that purpose behind what they're getting. Professionally, like, Okay, yeah,
(36:24):
I'm going to see that we got this product to market.
But because we got that product to market, my kids
can go to summer camp, or my I can go
back and get my master's or whatever. That bigger picture
is that allows people to kind of you know, it's
kind of cliche, but that vision board of like, I
really do want that home in Hawaii one of these days.
(36:48):
And therefore, even though I don't like doing taxes, doing
taxes matters those types of things.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
That's way more motivating than cracking a whip around the
number of hours someone is clocking in.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, talk to us about your trust acronym.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, So I created this acronym just to help people
really understand that they are intuitive and help them decipher
between fear and intuition, which, by the way, is the
number one unlocking tool to trusting and hearing your intuition.
More is telling the difference between a fear thought and
(37:28):
an intuitive thought. So trust is about one tuning in
to the thought. Just recognize when something intuitive comes up,
tune in. Then recognize what that feeling feels like in
your body, in your system. When something just drops in
(37:48):
like a knowing, recognize the feeling. Is it calm? Is
it expansive. What does it feel like when something intuitive
shows up? Recognize that feeling. Then understand when fear pops
up and what it's trying to do. It's just trying
to protect you. So the fear thought is going to
(38:11):
show up even when you have intuition about something. I,
for example, left a very long career in crisis management
and pr to start my own thing. That was intuitive,
but you better believe the fear thought was like, are
you crazy, You're a single mom, how are you going
to provide? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So understand what the fear
thought is trying to do. Oh, you're just trying to
(38:32):
protect me, and then start following the intuitive thought even
when you feel the fear. Just start just when you
understand this is an intuitive thought because I've recognized the
difference between the fear. I know what the fear is
trying to do, but I know this is a calm thought.
I'm just going to start following it. And then tea
(38:55):
is really about taking your power back, because the minute
that you start following that and tuition, you start feeling
more powerful. You start understanding that you truly have all
the answers that you need, and you start trusting yourself
more and that feels more empowering in your system.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I love that so much, following that intuitive thought. A
lot of people know about paying things forward, but you've
already mentioned it one time, and I'll just hammer it
home here playing things through and just playing through, like, well,
I think this might work. What might it look like?
(39:39):
What resources would I need? What people would I need?
Let me just play through this scenario and it almost
becomes it almost becomes a creative venture at that point,
And I love I love that idea so much of
just like just follow the path, see where it goes, because,
(40:02):
as you've already told us, if it is truly a
bad idea that's in your gut, you're gonna figure it
out pretty dang quick, because you're gonna go like, wow,
we don't have the capital to do that, or I
don't have the resources as a human being or as
a parent or as a colleague to accomplish that task
on that timeline, whatever it may be. I love how
(40:26):
you have mentioned that the opposite of intuition is fear
and not to get to spiritual. But my friend and
I were debating the other day, like what is a sin.
You know, if we talk about like sin, and we
ultimately came down to when you know that you have
something in your gut that is God given intuition and
(40:47):
you just deny it, what could be worse because that's
gonna lead to that shame, the regret, the guilt, the
and ultimately you look back on it and.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
You go, why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Why did I do that? So for those of you
that want to do a little bit of a deeper
dive into politics, let's dive into it. The political landscape
is ugly, is one way to put it. A deep breath,
deep breath, deep breath. It's polarizing, to say the least,
(41:25):
and the twenty four hour news cycle has done so
much detriment I think to our brains and to our culture.
I was recently, I was recently on a retreat and
the housekeepers that sat overnight, one of them we would
wake up and CNN would be on, and one we
(41:46):
would wake up in Fox News would be on and
we'd be like, can you turn that off? It's like
five point thirty in the morning, you know what I mean? So,
how do you think that the political landscape has caused
people to look outward instead of inward for answers.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Oh, lindsay, where do I start at the beginning? Yeah, listen,
my family is from Iran. It is now the Islamic
Republic of Iran. They obviously fled before it became that.
So I'm going to tell you something about a very
old playbook, which is that any system that wants to
(42:26):
have power is going to teach people to fear one
another period because it's so distracting. It so taps into
a visceral part of us as humans, which is, oh
my god, if I don't understand it, it could hurt me.
(42:47):
And people play on that to make you feel that
you are in more danger than you are, so that
you can be distracted. And what are you distracted from
listening into your own inner knowing? Because when you listen in,
actually look at that person and you think, oh, you're
just human like me, You're not scary, or hey, this
(43:08):
thing you're telling me authority figure, that's not good for me.
I know that in my soul. But you don't listen in,
you don't trust. And I think that the twenty four
hour media feeds this because where do they make their money?
They make their money from you tuning in. And so
there is something called a negativity bias where when we
(43:31):
believe something like fear, we look for more things that
will look like that. And so if you're already in
the programming that says fear each other, so you can
get distracted, what is the media going to play on
It's going to also play on your fear. It's going
to continue to present information in a way. You know,
(43:51):
like we always laugh about the breaking news headline on
these cable news shows, and it's like, that's not breaking news.
There used to be a time when there was breaking news.
I've left that time. But that is to get your
attention and startle you. We talked in your episode about
fight or flight and triggering the stress response. I tell
people now all the time. Look, I did crisis management
for twenty years. I know what happens. I know what
(44:13):
it looks like to be purposely triggered into a crisis.
We are being purposely triggered into being in a fair state.
And so I think that what I ask of people
is this, do you have to be tuned in all
the time? And if the answer is yes, what is
that doing for you? There was a time for me
(44:36):
around the election, where what it was doing was like
assuaging my anxiety with the story, the belief that if
I knew every single detail, I was somehow in control.
Guess what I was not. So the awareness of why
why am I tuning in so much to something that
does not feel good is a really good question to
ask yourself. And then I want people to know that actually,
(44:58):
when you look through history, and I'm a big history nerd,
I could talk to a whole other episode with you
on history, because I believe that history is a road map.
It's showing us don't do this, do that. We're meant
to learn from it. But if you look back in
history at any moments that were chaotic, that created harm
(45:21):
in any way, the pathway out of it started in community.
It started in neighborhoods. It started locally. So rather than
focus your energy on, oh my god, it's the end
of days out there somewhere in the world, and make
no mistake, harm is happening. That's true, and in every
way all the time, turn your attention to what how
(45:45):
do I show up in my family, in my neighborhood,
in my community that honors things like connection, empathy, you know,
being together in a way that feels good. Those kinds
of things throughout history have gotten us through the darkest moments,
(46:06):
darker moments than this is just focusing locally.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
It reminds me so I was I am a Christian,
was raised Christian, and I remember when my my church
doesn't do much missionary work, but for whatever reason, there
was a group of preachers that were called to East
Africa and there was a group of Muslims in the neighborhood,
(46:33):
in the village, and they one of the preachers said,
just go offer them a meal, offer them the opportunity
to come and sit with us and eat with us.
And I remember in post nine to eleven there was
a protest and there was a Muslim woman who was
holding up a sign that says, you can't be mad
(46:55):
at us, we gave you full offel. And I just thought,
what a perfect way to summarize what you're just saying.
My listeners have heard me say this so many times,
and it's not my own quote. I can't claim it.
I just have forgotten who said it. Your soul is
village sized. We're not meant to know the breaking news
(47:19):
that's happening all over the world. We're meant to handle
how we show up for ourselves, our family, our colleagues,
and in our community. I think that that is such
a beautiful way that we can actually unite instead of
doing stunts intended to unite us. Mari this has been
(47:43):
such a fascinating conversation. I am so grateful that I
got to know you a little bit better. Listeners, please
go pick up a copy of Higher Self, How to
shift from overwhelmed to inner agency, how and why people
are disengaging, and how to reconnect with the authentically, and
how we can move beyond all of these external experts
(48:05):
and political narratives into self trust. To find out more
about Maury and all of the work that she does
with eight twenty two, please go to www dot Moriyfontanez
dot com and follow her on Instagram. Mariyfontanez, Maury, thank
you so much for coming in today and being a
(48:26):
guest on The Lindsayelmore Show.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Lindsay, thank you for having me. It was a great conversation.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
The Lindsaylmore Show is written and produced by me. Lindsey
Elmore Show segments are produced by Sue Froco and Mike Martin.
Sound design and editing is by Jive Media. You can
donate to our show by heading to Lindsaylmore dot com
slash podcast, or if you would like to be a
(48:53):
supporter of the show, head to Lindsaylmore dot com slash Supporter.
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(49:18):
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Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.