261. How To Love Your Enemy With Isaac Brown

Episode Transcript
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Chris Grainger (00:03):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, guys, meet up a sotime.
This is going to be a go one.
Before we go too far, though,let's get into our scripture
this week.
So we got one verse this weekin the book of Romans, chapter
eight, verse 18.
I consider that our presentsufferings are not worth

(00:24):
comparing with the glory thatwould be revealed in us.
So, guys, if you missed thespiritual kickoff, go back,
check that out.
It's been a lot of timeunpacking that one verse.
Okay.
Now today's episode is going tobe a little different.
Okay, I was able to connectwith Sergeant Ike Brown and had
a wonderful conversation withhim.
I'll tell you what he is just ajust a warm soul.

(00:46):
Guys, I'm telling you his storyis going to shock you.
It's going to be one of thestories that you're just not
going to believe, and I'mtelling you, saying that here in
him, tell it, and the way thathe has just full of joy, even
when he gets through the darkparts of the story.
There's no words to put aroundit.
I mean, ike is a man in lawenforcement.
For 38 years, guys.
He has been out there on thestreets of Jacksonville doing

(01:08):
his thing, keeping people safe,and what he went through I pray
no one ever has to walk throughthat losing a child, in
particular the way that Ike losthis child.
So, fellas, sit back, becauseit's not just the way he lost
his child but how he respondedin that loss that really makes
an impact.
We have a choice.
So you may be going through adark season of life right now,

(01:30):
or going through some serioustrials, or recently had some
losses.
This is going to be aconversation that should
encourage you.
This should actually give yousome hope.
That should be able to lift youup.
Is it going to answer all yourquestions?
No, it's not, but at least itwill show you how one individual
chose to follow God and tolisten and be obedient to the

(01:51):
Holy Spirit and how that has ledto taking from that point of
loss to so much joy in his life.
So enjoy this conversation withSergeant Ike, all right.
So, ike, welcome to the Lionwith them is how you doing today
.
I am fantastic, fantastic.
That is a good day.

(02:13):
It is a good day.

Isaac Brown (02:14):
there in Florida it is just about 95 degrees right
about now, so it's wonderful.

It's wonderful I hear you, I hear you.
I have been looking forward tohaving a conversation with you,
ike, and just your story.
It moved me greatly.
When I met with Pastor Joby, wetalked about it a lot and
before we get into all that theheavy stuff, maybe give us a fun
fact about you that not manypeople know, ike.
So what's something that youenjoy doing or a fun fact that's

(02:42):
getting?

our list started.
I'll tell you, yesterday wasour 31st wedding anniversary and
we love Orlando, me and my wife.
So we spent the weekend, anddaughter and some friends, in
Orlando at the water park.
Now, I can't swim, but I lovethat water, and so I'm the only

(03:06):
guy in this big old pool andwave with this big vest on.
But, man, I'm having a blastand they get a kick out of it
every time they see me with thatvest on.
But I can't swim, but I lovethe water.

And something like you got a good wife too.

31 years, that's a good milestone 31 years together
and I'm like who would haveimagined?
You know, we've been togetherfor 33, married for 31, and it's
just been a joy, absolute joy,that is wonderful, that is
absolutely wonderful.

Well, you know, I know we're going to get into a
lot of things here with yourtestimony, but maybe even before
you get into everything thatPastor Joby wrote about in the
book, give us a little bit aboutyour personal testimony how you
came to find the Lord and whatdid that look like for you
growing up.

Well, you know, growing up, my mother always
made sure we was in church.
I mean, before she was bornagain.
She made us go.
You know she would drop us offand tell us we've been that,
come out until the third wasover.
So I grew up in church.
You know pretty much, you knowall my life.
Then, thank God, my mom, youknow, accepted Christ and she

(04:19):
was born again.
And you know, I grew up in a, ina Pentecostal church.
You know, we got there early inthe morning and we stayed till
late in the evening and then wehad night service.
So we'd come back at seven atnight and, man, sometimes we
were in there till midnight.
You know, I mean all day, everyday we'd fall asleep.

(04:44):
But man, we just, we just grewup in church, you know, loving
and praising God.
And so I accepted Christ at anearly age.
And I tell people I've beenborn again just about all my
life, but I really got bornagain.
I would, I would say in 2000,.
You know that, that I reallyfound my way, you know, and

(05:05):
really established arelationship with God.
You know, I knew, I knew who hewas and and but I just didn't
have that relationship, like somany of us I would.
I would call on him when Ineeded him, when I was in a
little trouble and then whenthings were going good.
Well, you know he was, I knewhe was there, you know, but a

(05:25):
lot of times it's it's it's whenwe're in trouble or we need
something, and we, we called.
And it didn't dawn on me, untilI really established a
relationship, that every time Iwent to the God, it was give me,
lord.
I need you know, lord, I needthis Lord, I need that Lord, I
need finances, lord, you know,and I was just sitting one day

(05:48):
and I'm like man, every time Igo to God I'm begging for
something, you know, begging forsomething.
Not once have I said thank youfor what you've already done,
thank you for what you're doing.
You know it was.
It was like he was like the Godof, of give me, you know, and.
And once I really I foundmyself in a Bible based church

(06:09):
and really got to listen andhear that word, and and I tell
you, it was like the words werejumping off the pages and and I
realized that man, you know, Ijust and and you know, I grew up
.
You know my pastor, you know hewas as we say, he was old
school and you know they mainlypreached fine brimstone and, and
they really preach you knowthat word of.

(06:32):
You know how to live and neverreally taught it.
You know they would.
We would jump and scream andshout and run and and, and
somebody would say, man, how wasservice?
And I was like man, pastorkilled it.
Today, you know what do youpreach on man?
I don't know, but it was good,you know.
You know it was, you know itwas, it was real good, you know,
you know.
But we jumped and ran and shoutall day, you know, but nothing

(06:54):
was really settling in the heart.
You know the really listening.
And early 2000,.
My former pastor, michael TSmith.
He started a church here inJacksonville and a friend of
mine.
Every time I would talk withhim on the phone he was, I could
hear the CD playing and I andI'm like man, you listening to
this, this Michael T again.

(07:15):
And he said, yeah, man, he saidyou got to come and visit.
This is how he described it.
He said he is the baddest whiteboy in town.
He's 27 years old and and Isaid, okay, I'll come and visit.
And I walked in one Sunday inthe church, was about three
months old and they still hadsheet rock on the wall, we had

(07:36):
beach chairs to sit in, we had aboombox for the, for the praise
team.
And here comes this young guyout there and the first thing he
says is I love good preacherand I love the jumping shot, but
if I don't share somethingthat's going to change in here,
you saw a failure as a pastorthat, right there, blew my, blew

(07:57):
my mind, you know.
And then he opened that wordand he taught the word and I'm
telling you, chris, I heard it.
I mean, the words jumped offand I was blown away from that
moment.
You know, he didn't.
He didn't yell and scream, hedidn't jump on the pews, he
didn't go to his knees and puthis hand behind his ear like we

(08:21):
like to do.
He taught that word and I wasblown away and I couldn't wait
to get home and my wife was outof town and when she come back
I'm like hey, you got to go tothis, this church, with me and
we went with the kids.
She was ready to join the firstday.
You know.
She said let's join.

(08:41):
I said, well, let's come acouple more times and make sure
you know this is it.
And I tell you, after about amonth we went up to join, you
know, and for 13 years we servedunder Pastor Mike.
We grew, I just learned so much.
He was there for me, even withmy son and stuff going on, when

(09:03):
the trial and stuff started hewas there and it was just
wonderful.
And we were there one Sunday andhe was preaching and he said
and Paul was, was here for ashort period of time and then he
moved somewhere else.
And then he preached here forsix months and he moved
somewhere else.
And I looked at my wife and Isaid I said Pastor Mike, for the

(09:24):
leave us.
She's like what are you talkingabout?
I'm like he's from the leave us.
I say I hear it, you know.
And after the end of that sermonhere now, as they were moving
back to Atlanta, and I tell youI was crushed, I'm like what am
I going to do?
You know where can I go?
I know I'm getting this wordand I'm asking God and I kind of

(09:48):
would just look at the DVDs orpast sermons.
You know, nobody could just doit like him and I would see
church 1122 everywhere.
I'd see it on the stickers onthe back of cars and I'm like,
what is?
What is this 1122?
And I'm like, what is this 1122?
And, lord and behold, on thesame street I live on, they

(10:10):
started a church there.
It was a it was an emptybuilding there.
It looked like it used to be aschool or something, and I saw
the sign said 1122.
And I'm like, well, I not onlyput it right here on my street,
I'm talking two minutes if Idrive, six minutes if I walk.
And I tell you, I stepped inthere and I heard Pastor Jobe

(10:34):
and he reminded me so much ofPastor Mike where he taught, he
teaches that word.
And I mean you, you understandit and I'm like you got it, he
got it.
You know, he got it, he got it.
It was, it was fantastic and Iwas.
I was hooked from then on, youknow, and so it's been an
absolute joy, it's been amazing.

Absolutely.
And I tell you what, as a as afellow Pastor Jobe follower, I
think I was hooked.
After about five minutes of thefirst sermon I ever heard
improved I mean, it's just now Ilisten on an average of
probably two to three sermonsper week of his.
I'm back in 2016 in thearchives, you know so you.
I am curious.

(11:16):
I'm curious for you.
You mentioned 2000.
Something changed with yourrelationship.
So what, what was it?
And around 2000, it changed foryou.

Well, you know, I think that was when the Pastor
Mike started the church ofJacksonville my former pastor,
okay, and it was.
It was the day I I walked inthere and I really began to to
hear that word and I realizedthat, you know, I knew God, but
I don't know if he knew me.

(11:45):
You know, I knew about him, youknow, I knew he, I could call
on him.
I knew certain things in theword, like you know, he said
he'd never leave us and he'dnever forsake us and I knew that
when I was in trouble, you knowas bad as I was, he loved me

(12:07):
and he always bailed me out, youknow.
And then I would feel guilty,you know, I'm like man, you know
I haven't prayed all week andlittle trouble come and I mean
I'm laid out like David, youknow, I'm God, I'm screaming,
I'm, you know, and I could onlyimagine him sitting there
shaking his head like let mehelp this boy out again.

(12:29):
You know, maybe he'll get itsooner or later, you know, and
he just always sold me mercy andthat's when I began to really
have a relationship, to reallycall on him, and I think one of
my finest moments I was prayingand I said, lord, today, I'm not
asking you for anything.
I said today, I'm just sayingthank you, you know, for your

(12:51):
goodness and your grace.
And I tell you that that reallyjust touched me.
You know I was so excited Justto say God, I thank you.
You know, I was.
You know, instead of asking.
You know my prayer.
You know it's saying enter intothe courts with thanksgiving
and you know just praise and thegates of praise and the courts.
And you know, and I alwaysenter with Lord, I need

(13:14):
something.
Lord, give me this, Lord.
You know this.
You know, lord, you know I needrent money.
And Lord, you know what.
I was always asking forsomething.
I never started with praise andthanksgiving.
I was praying wrong, you know,and you know I wouldn't, I
wouldn't follow in that, thatscripture.

(13:34):
You know, I just jump head inwith I need this, I need that.
You know, and I was so excitedwhen I say to the day, lord, I
just want to say thank you, youknow, for all you did.
And I tell you, from that dayto this one, he has really been
with me.
We have a relationship.

(13:54):
I could talk to him while I'mcutting the grass.
I can talk to him while I'm ona run.
I can talk to him when I'mwalking, even when I'm at work.
You know, I didn't.
I don't have to go in and hidea minute, I can be conducting my
business and I just take amoment to remember him and let
him know.
I thank him and I tell youthat's when I really begin to

(14:15):
grow in Christ.

That's a beautiful story and it speaks to
the importance of having thatrelationship, I mean, and it
also speaks to the importanceguys out there that are
listening If you don't have achurch body that you're
connected with, you can't dothis alone.
I mean, why do you keep tryingto be disconnected from the body
?
You know, if you need to have alocal group of men and a local
church that are helpful and youcloser to God and I'm just

(14:38):
blessed by what you're sharinghere because so many of us treat
God as that vending machine.
We want to pop that prayer upwhen we need something and we're
going to roll on with itbecause we got this, the rest of
them, we got this right and heis not vending machine.

I heard the pastor say he ran into a member in
church and he said you know, hey, I haven't seen you in a while.
And the member said yeah, I'mgoing through something right
now, but when I get it togetherI'm going to come back.
And he said well, see, that'swhere you're wrong.
You ain't never going to get ittogether.
That's right.
You come on back in this churchand together we'll get it

(15:13):
together.
But so many times we try to fixit and I never forgot that he
said when I get it together, I'mcoming right back.
But realizing that the answeris back in that fold Because,
like you just said, we can't doit alone.
You need help along the way inthis journey.

Whenever I hear people say that, I always point
them to the first word in theirsentence, because you said, the
guy says I got to get ittogether, but then you started
to send us with I.
You missed it, it ain't by us.
That's right, it's by him.
So stop trying to figure yourstuff out, because you ain't
never going to get this thingtogether called life while
you're here.

So you got that right.
I'm like God, you don'tunderstand.
I got to do this, that's right,that's right.
Now.
I just laugh at myself and I'mlike, oh my God, it's a wonder I
got anything answered.

I know, I know he got to yell at me sometimes I
get death it seems like but Iknow you have a powerful story.
We're going to take a quickbreak and we're going to get in.
Guys, you're not going tobelieve this story.
So I mean, this is not to getyou to come back, because you
should be hanging out anyway,but seriously, hang out from
this break and we'll be rightback with Ike and it's going to

(16:27):
really get real.
So be right back.
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(17:31):
Thank you for sharing about yourtestimony.
It was great to hear that.
I totally get where you're atnow.
I can see the spirit and itspeaks to importance of a Bible
teaching and preaching churchand pastor.
So you got to make sure youprioritize that.
But, if you don't mind, youhave a powerful story of
testimony that I know that youshare with a lot of people.
I just wanna get out the waypersonally and just to give you

(17:55):
the platform you share with howthe spirit leads you and I'm
just thankful for you taking thetime to do this with us.

Oh, absolutely.
Let me say in the beginning andI tell people before I talk if
I get the opportunity to speakor share with that trust me, I'm
not special, I'm like everybodyelse.
I've been in law enforcement.
Last month was 38 years and I'mstill in law enforcement.

(18:24):
I'm a police sergeant and Ialways said if you hurt one of
my children, it didn't matterthat I was the police, it didn't
matter that I was born again, Iwas gonna get you.
I convinced myself that's whatGod wanted.
I'm gonna pay you back.
And so I'm pretty much, Iimagine, just like everybody

(18:48):
else.
They say the same thing man,you hurt one of mine.
And, being an officer, I've beenon scene after scene where a
young man or a young woman havelost their life.
I don't care if we're in themiddle of the city or the middle
of the woods.
People show up and usually theword is gonna get to the family
and the family is gonna show upand of course we have a

(19:10):
perimeter and we have to keepthem back.
And you see that family thereand my job is to try to preserve
the scene and collect evidenceor talk to witnesses.
And that mother is looking ather child laying in the middle
of the road and I could hear hersaying why is he laying there?
And we can't cover him up, wecan't move him on a mattress or

(19:39):
spread, he has to lay there.
And I could hear them sayingthat asphalt is hot.
It's hot, although he's nolonger and it's heartbreaking.
And I've heard some say hedon't even care, he's just doing
his job, he don't care, andit's heartbreaking.
So I've seen that time and timeagain.

(20:02):
And when I lost my son, Ilearned that I don't care if
your son was killed robbing theconvenience store, that's still
somebody's child, that's theirbaby.
No, he wasn't raised like that,but that's still your baby and
you love him just like I lovemine.
So, but I never thought thatknock would come at my door.

(20:24):
This is stuff that happens toother people, it happens in
other cities, but I was exempt.
I just never even imagined it.
And my son me and his motherwas a previous relationship and
the first one he was to go offin college and I'll never forget

(20:45):
, before he left, me and himplayed a game of Madden on the
video game, madden football andhe beat me 100 to nothing and I
could still right now hear himlaugh.
And I mean he laughed and Ilooked at him with a straight,
stern face and I said, son, aslong as you live you would never

(21:07):
beat me like that again.
So he goes back to college, I gobuy me a video game and I'm
practicing.
You know, I'm getting ittogether, you know, and you know
when he would come home, youknow, and he'd love to get
together and go visit some ofhis friends in high school
buddies.
And I said, you know, hey, whenyou come back you wake me up.

(21:28):
I don't care if it's 3 am, Idon't care, whatever I say, we
got a game to play and he wouldlaugh and he's like you act,
like you know how to play.
And he didn't know I had boughtme a video game and I was
practicing.
You know, and Lord of the Holes, you know, we never got to
finish that game, we never gotto play it again.
But hopefully, you know, maybethey got a old video game

(21:50):
sitting in the corner of heaventhat maybe we can go at it one
more time.
You know, but that's right.
But sure enough, you know earlyone Wednesday morning, may 27th,
that that knock was on my door.
You know, you kind of halfwaywaking up, because I'd get up
around about that time to go towork, you know, and I'm like,
who is?
Who is at the door, you know?
And I open the door and I seemy sergeant, and I see my

(22:13):
lieutenant and I see my chiefand I'm telling you, nothing
really dawned on me.
But behind my chief I saw ourchaplain, the police chaplain,
and when I saw the chaplain, thefirst thing I said was hey,
chaplain, why are you here?
And I remember going through theacademy.
They had a block in there wherethe chaplain would come out and

(22:36):
he would speak.
And I'm talking 20 years hadpassed, but I remember him
coming out speaking to us in theacademy and he talked about
death notices.
You know, I've made a thousanddeath notices in my career and
when you see me come, you knowI'm the messenger of death.
And even when he retired theywrote a big story on him.

(23:01):
You know, a great, great man,but it was called the messenger
of death.
And so when I saw him, that wasthe first thing, you know,
popped in my mind.
You know, the messenger ofdeath, you know.
And that's when I said why areyou here?
Why are you here, chaplain?
And then my sergeant, you know,spoke and he told me you know,
my son was killed.

(23:21):
And you know, when I tell you,you're kind of standing there
like what did you just say, yeah, you know, my son was killed,
no, he just went.
You know he doesn't have hisfriends, you know he's with his
mom and you know he's a good boy.
You know what do you mean.
He's killed, you know.
And of course you know, I getmy wife and you know I wake her

(23:42):
up and tell her and we're justin unbelief.
You know that this could happen.
You know, it's like it's notsupposed to happen to us.
So I'm kind of like in shockand I'm kind of like staring off
in space.
And of course, you know, we'reovercome with emotions and tears
and you know, and I'm like, oh,my God, you know, what are we

(24:04):
going to do?
And I thought about his mother,you know, you know that was.
That was her only son, you know.
And my sergeant said, you know,they hadn't notified her.
So they took me to notify herand she was at work and you know
we would communicate.

(24:24):
But she knew, when she saw meat work, you know, I mean the
minute she saw me.
She said you know, is it easy?
You know, and I think just tolook on my face I couldn't even
probably get the words out andshe collapsed and it was just so
heartbreaking.
You know to when you're tellinga mother that her child has been

(24:44):
killed, you know, and I tellpeople, you know, if it was a
car accident it's moreunderstandable.
If it was a sickness, you knowyou could kind of deal with it a
little better.
You know.
But to be shot, you know my sonnever, you know, messed with

(25:04):
guns and I'd never been introuble and you know I never
thought gun violence, you know,to die such a terrible way.
Visiting a friend playing avideo game, you know when he
passed, you know he diedimmediately and still sitting in
a chair and the remote is stillin his hand.
You know, and that's how quickyou know it was over, you know.

(25:27):
So you get this news and I tellyou man, it is just, it is a
mess and I don't know what toexpect.
I do know in law enforcementnothing happens in a hurry.
You know you're charged with acrime and they have a lot of
hearings and the hearing can befive minutes.

(25:48):
You come out, they put it allfor too much, you know, and
that's it.
You know, two months later youshow back up.
They ask for a continuance.
You know another two months.
So literally this went on.
Most of the time he didn't even.
You know, he stayed in the cell.
His attorney would stand in forhim because it was gonna be

(26:10):
quick.
They wasn't discussing anything.
You know and I know the process.
But the other families, youknow, they don't know.
You know they want justice,they want it right now.
You know, but it took, you know, over three years before it
actually went to trial.
You know, and so I'm sittingthere.

(26:31):
You know, I was there for everyhearing and because I'm in law
enforcement, you know, everytime I would come to the
courthouse, you know all theguys, the supervisors, they all
love me, but they would have topull me aside, they would have
to pat me down.
You know, make sure I didn'thave any weapons and I
understood that and you know,then we'd go into the courtroom.

(26:53):
You know, and I tell you I wasset on revenge.
I was thinking about okay, howam I gonna jump across this
counter?
Can I get to him?
You know, before they get me,you know, I know I'm gonna end
up getting arrested.
I mean all kind of stuff justrunning through your mind.
And I'm telling you, chris, I'msitting in that courtroom and he

(27:15):
walks out and you know he's 19years old.
He is now at the time of thetrial.
He was 19 when it started.
He's now 22, 23 years old andhe's clean-shaven.
You know, when this happened hehad, you know, long, long
dreads.
You know, not a bad kid, not abad kid, never really been in

(27:37):
any trouble.
He graduated high school.
He was running back in highschool.
He had football.
You know scholarship offers.
You know football didn't have afather in his life.
Great mother, you know, didn'thave to be out doing anything
wrong.
You know, just overall good kid.
But I'm telling you, he walksout and I look at him and I

(28:00):
loved him.
I loved him immediately.
It was no years later.
I loved him, it was immediate.
I could not explain it.
I still can't explain it.
You know, in the beginning theywere talking.
You know death penalty anddifferent things they were gonna

(28:22):
do and.
I didn't want that.
I remember talking to the stateand I said you know, I don't
want him to die.
And they said we love you,we're gonna get him.
And I said, well, he's alreadygot, you know.
But you know, if he had afamily, you know they could come
visit him, you know.

(28:43):
And so I didn't want that.
What I wasn't thinking aboutwas three other families in that
courtroom, you know, it was notjust me.
There was Jeffrey, one of myson's, you know, best friend
Jeffrey, jeffrey Hicks, you know, and Jeffrey was an only child,
you know, so his family's inthere.
And then Gavin, gavin Barry,that was the one they were

(29:06):
visiting, and you know so hisfamily in that courtroom.
And of course there's DeCoria,so his family's in there.
So that's three families plusmine.
So you got four families.
You got a lot of emotions, yougot all kinds of stuff going on
in your head.
So it was tough and everythingI did, you know, from

(29:29):
forgiveness, I was hurtingsomebody, you know, I was
hurting my family and I didn'trealize it, you know, and they
were angry and I was asking God,you know what's wrong with me.
You know what kind of father amI.
You know, how can I love him?

(29:51):
You know he killed my son, youknow, and what do I mean?
I forgive him.
What do I mean?
I love him and I could not helpwhat was happening in here.
But the hurt part was I washurting my family, you know.
My children were upset, youknow, my wife was upset, you

(30:13):
know, and I would literally gosit by myself and I'm asking God
.
You know, god, I'm hurtingeverybody.
You know, if I ask not to getthe death penalty, I'm hurting
these other families.
You know, and I'm like you know, everything I do is wrong.
You know what is going on, youknow, and I would literally, you

(30:34):
know, and I tell people I neverasked why, I never, you know,
blame God.
I never said God, why did youallow it to happen?
The only why I had was why haveI forgiven him?
Why do I feel the way I feel?
Why do I love him?
Why do I wanna let him live?
Why do I wanna go up and hughim?

(30:54):
You know, that was my only why.
You know, god, I'm hurting allthe people I love, you know, and
I don't even, I can't evenexplain it.
You know, and you know, as timewent on, and I would go visit,

(31:14):
you know, and my wife would sayyou just honor our son, you just
honor him.
You know he doesn't deserve tobreathe the air and it broke my
heart.
You know, because you know, I'mgoing to visit him and I know
it's hurting her, you know, andshe's a step mom, you know, I

(31:36):
can only imagine how his motherfelt, you know, and all I could
say was I'm sorry, you know, andI would go visit and we would
have, you know, a greatrelationship.
But before we got to that part,you know, he's found guilty two
counts of first degree murder,one count of a tipped first

(31:57):
degree murder, the third boy,the one they were visiting, he
lived, and so they let thefamilies get up and speak.
You know, one after the otheryou know, I'm sitting there and,
and you know, you know Gavin'sfamily get up and speak, and
Jeffery's family, and one afterthe other.
You know I hate you.

(32:17):
You know I, you know I want youdead, I want you to burn in
hell.
You know I want to kill you andand and you have a young, a
young man sitting there on thatstand and and everybody getting
up hate you.
You know, they scream it outand he's sitting there with
tears in his eyes and I'mtelling you, the more I, the

(32:40):
more I looked at him, the more Iloved him, the more they said I
, I hate you, the more I lovedhim, the more they said I want
you to die, the more I wanted to, to hug him.
It was like I wanted to shieldhim, you know, from all of this,
and I couldn't.
I couldn't even explain it.
You know, I couldn't evenexplain it.
You know when I'm sitting thereand and you know some of the

(33:00):
headlines, you know, as a, youknow a police officer's son was,
was killed.
So there's cameras in the inthe courtroom, and then you know
I get up to to speak.

Mr, hold on before you.
Before you get this far, let'stake a quick break and be right
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So I keep going.
So you're getting up to the micto speak.
What would you say?

I get up to the mic to speak and I tell him.
I said, first of all, I wantyou to know that forgiveness was
not even an issue that's dark,you know.
I said, unfortunately, man,it'll be a long time, you know.
But I say, as long as you makeit right with God, you're all
right.
You know, you ask forgivenessof him.
He's going to forgive you.

(34:55):
You do it from a sincere heartand you're good to go.
You know, I said, but, but yourchoice landed us in the
courtroom.
Choices have consequences.
What a good or bad.
So you know, we.
That's why we're here today,you know.
But I wanted him to know that,that I loved him.
I wanted him to know that Iwould always be mindful and

(35:17):
praying for him.
And you know, I wished him welland the judge let me hug him,
and that pretty much was, was it, you know?
And then then he goes off toprison.

Okay.

And I'm not even sure where he he went.
You know he goes off to prisonand you know I think about him.
And you know, a year passed,you know I would write letters
and I'm like, do I?
Do I mail it?
You know, do he want to hearfrom me?
You know what do I really say?
Right, you know, and it tookaround about about three years

(35:55):
before I finally got the courage.
And you know I wrote a letterand I tried to encourage him
with some scripture about Josephand and even in prison, how God
, you know, blessed him and tookcare of him and, you know,
promoted him and and, you know,blessed him with favor.
So I shared those scripturewith him to let him know that it
doesn't matter where you at,you know, god is with you, you

(36:17):
know.
And a lot of people say, yeah,well, they all get, get saved in
prison, you know, but I don'tcare, as long as you get it, I
don't care where you at, youknow.
And so that was all I wanted,you know.
And so I I'm writing thisletter and at the end of the
letter I said I need a favorfrom you.
I said I really miss my son,ike Jr, and I say but I'd like

(36:37):
you to fill in for him till weall get to heaven, you know, and
I say if not, I understand.
So I mailed the letter rightquick, before I chicken out
again.
You know, I mailed the letterand and it takes about three
weeks to a month I get aresponse.
And I'm literally at work in mypolice car.

(36:59):
I'm sitting on the corner ofKings Road and Bertle Avenue.
It's a auto park store thereand I'm sitting in there and and
I'm looking at the letter onthe seat and I'm scared to open
it because I don't know whatit's going to say.
You know email on.
You know, kershmiah, I don't, Idon't know what to expect, but
I, I sit there and I opened thatletter and that letter said

(37:21):
dear Mr Brown, I now know thatGod is real.
He said I told God that if youmeant what you said in the
courtroom, if you really forgaveme, if you really loved me.
I told God, I wanted to hearfrom you and I told God that if
I heard from you I would give mylife to him.
Well, that, right there, justtook my breath away.

(37:43):
You know, now I'm, I'm sittingin the car and you know, tears
are running down and and I'mtrying to peep around to make
sure nobody's looking at me.
You know I supposed to be the.
You know I'm the cop, you know.
And here I'm sitting in the carjust bawling, you know, and it
just was such a blessing, youknow, to hear that.
You know, and I was like man, Ishould have mailed that first

(38:05):
letter years ago.
You know, I should have, Ishould have did this, I should
have did that, you know.
And, and he writes the mostbeautiful letter, he has the
best handwriting in it.
At the end of the letter hesays Mr Brown, you asked me for
a favor.
I said you asked me if I couldfill in.
I joined you.
He said in no way am Iqualified for what I've done,

(38:26):
but if you have me, from thispoint on, you're my dad and I'm
your son.
And I tell you, chris man, thatthat did it.
When I tell you, I mean ugly,ugly, crying.
You know I'm bawling, but theywere all tears of joy.
You know, I'm so great for theGod, I'm praising God in that
car and it was just beautifuland that was the.

(38:49):
That was the first letter, youknow.
And when I wrote again this one, you can see the sincerity in
it.
You know, when I wrote thesecond letter and I said, hey,
do you need anything?
You know I don't know.
You know, can I send something?
And do you need money?
Or what do I do?
What can I do?
And when he responded back, Iwas so excited to get a letter

(39:11):
back.
If he said, he said I don'tneed anything.
He said I don't need money, Ijust need you to not stop loving
me.
And I tell you that that did it.
You know, now I'm bawling again.
I don't know what is going onin my life, but, man, I'm crying
over on commercials.
Now I don't even know what'shappening.
You know it is anything.

(39:32):
Get me all the motion.
I'm like what is going on withme?
You know, but I'm bawling again.
You know, and you know mostpeople, especially the prison.
You know, yes, send me somemoney, send me some money, you
know.
And he's like right, all Ineeded you to not stop loving me
.
And you know, from that day tothis one, I've not stopped
loving him.
You know, we, we communicate, wevisit we, you know, we

(39:55):
fellowship.
He's big, like I say, footballfan.
Unfortunately, you know, he's acowboy fan, you know, and so we
have a good time with that.
You know, with the sports, andof course I'm here at
Jacksonville, so I'm a Jaguar.
I want to lose, you know we, we, we go and for it, you know, so
we have a good time, you know,talking sports and and we talk

(40:15):
of God's love and his blessing.
You know, and it's just been,it's just been a beautiful,
beautiful relationship.
And I tell people, the miracleis not with me, the miracle is
my wife.
You know, my wife, you knowthat that first video we did I

(40:36):
don't know how it made it way toKansas City, but a man in
Kansas City saw that video andthey were having a weekend of
forgiveness and remembrance inKansas City and he found me here
in Jacksonville and invited meand the wife up to speak for
that weekend.

(40:57):
And, man, we went to KansasCity I'd never been to Kansas
City and we stepped off of thatplane and they were waiting and
our first stop was the KansasCity Royals Major League
Baseball Park.
We pull up to the park and andthe president, the team and
they're all standing there andthey got all you know duffel

(41:21):
bags of Kansas City.
You know, you know sweatshirts,baseball, you had, you name it.
They welcomed us there.
We enjoyed a game in KansasCity.
If you would have told me I'dhave been standing at about five
that evening on the on themound of the Kansas City Royals
baseball team, I never wouldhave believed it, you know.
But there I was, you know, Ihave, I tell people, I have the

(41:42):
pitch of the proven.
You know, I was there, we, weenjoyed that game.
It was, it was just wonderful,you know.
And that whole weekend I spokeat a couple of different venues
and one of the venues when Ifinished speaking, and a lot of
the mothers, they were gathered,a lot of people.
They had lost the love one, theviolence, or lost the child to

(42:04):
the violence, and I saw my wifeIn the corner holding hands with
a group of mothers Leading themin prayer.
And I'm kind of standing thereand I'm looking and I'm like wow
, look, what God did.
That was, that was the.
The woman who said you justhonored your son.
That was the woman who said hedon't deserve the breeze of the

(42:28):
air would breathe.
You know that was the woman whosaid you know you're an
embarrassment.
You know what's wrong with you.
You know how could you hurt uslike this.
You know, and I'm looking atwhat God did and I was just so
blown away Away because I never,I never, preached to her.
You know you have to heal inyour own way, in your own time.

(42:49):
You know, when you've lost thelove one, you know so I never,
you know, like, preachforgiveness to her.
The Bible says this that you,you have to Deal with that, you
and God, you know, and and Ilike them, the Bible say his
word or never come back, boy,it's gonna do, but it's sent out
to do.
You know, right, and over time,you know, over the years, he

(43:12):
slowly, you know, touched theheart and he changed that heart,
you know, and I saw it.
You know, I saw it.
You know, and now you know, ifI go to visit it, it's telling
him hello, you know.
You know, do we need anythingthat you do?
Put a little something in theaccount.
You know it is.
It's just funny now, you know.

(43:32):
You know what I you to myself,you know, I just smile and I'm
like, wow, you know, look what,look what God did.
Now that was the, that was themiracle cuz.
For a while there, I thought IDidn't think we would celebrate
yesterday which was our 31stwedding anniversary.
You know that was it was.
It was ugly, you know it was.

(43:53):
It was ugly there, you know.
But I thank God that that Istayed in his word and I thank
God that he was doing somethingin me that I didn't even know
what's going on, and I thank Godthat the word is the word, you
know, and I see how it itchanged the heart.

(44:13):
You know the word.
So he has the heart of the kingin his hand, you know, and and
he has our heart in his hand andif you just allow him, you know
he will, he would, he will workit out, you know.
Yeah, and I tell you it's kindof an awesome blessing, awesome
blessing.

Well, I mean just that.
That story, that testimony IDon't have words for.
I am curious, just to make sureI get the facts right.
You were, it was three years.
So what what?
He killed your son.
He was 19.
Was it three years before yousaw him?

Well, I would.
I saw a couple of three minute.
You know, if he came to thecourtroom, you know he never
spoke, he literally would walkoutside in front of the podium,
they'd pass it and they'd takehim right back.
I mean, he never, he was neverthere.
You know, no more.
Five, five minutes.
You know it was just hearings,and a lot of those hearings the

(45:12):
attorney would show up, yeah,and he would just, he would just
stand in.
You know, just, we'd like acontinuance.
You know I need more, more time, and so it was a lot of that.
And you know, but when I lookedat him, you know, it was like
he was like, look like my boy.
You know, he was bigger, he was, he was a bigger version.
You know, he just, and you know, I just, I Just loved him.

(45:35):
You know, I never had thosefeelings, I never, you know.
And I'm, you know, I'm like I'msupposed to, I'm supposed to
Hurt him, I supposed to want tohurt him.
You know, and and I would talkto you know, different ones and
and you know they like damn,which, you know, you know, I
don't, I don't know how you cando that and and I would joke
with him, you know, as the yearswent on and I said, well, I say

(45:58):
the truth is, I say I'm aboutfive, three, five, four if I
wear my boots.
I say he's about six feet twohundred sixty five pounds worth
solid muscle.
I say I don't know if I couldhave took him.
I say I don't know if he didn'tfelt me around his neck.
You know we, you know we laughabout, about that, you know, but

(46:19):
he's always just been a humblekid and and you know I Done my,
our conversation, and I reachout and visit you know, I say,
hey, you know I'm, I'm talkingto the Football team at this
high school or that high school,I'm speaking somewhere.
And I say, hey, what, what doyou want me to tell him?
You know, and he would, hewould, you know, Write letters,

(46:43):
or he would tell me, you knowwhat, what to tell him?
You know that, that, that, whatprison is really like, you know
?
And and I tell you what, it'sone thing to hear me, but when
you hear his words, you know,and I would speak to the, the
varsity football team, and andhe would tell him, you know, if
you decide you no longer want toobey your parents, if you

(47:04):
decide you no longer want toobey the law.
He says if you insist on comingin here with me?
He said I want you to knowevery day.
I'm told when to eat, I'm toldwhen to sleep, I'm told if I
could go outside.
He said imagine Listening toofficers younger than me.
Tell me what to do, right?
He said using the bathroom andneeding tissue.

(47:25):
If the officers in a bad mood,you don't get no tissue, you
know, right?
He said this is what it'sreally like.
He said you know I'll never getto drive that car again.
I'll never get to.
You know, walk down that aisleand and you know, those are the
things that that I don't.
I don't get anymore.
You know.
And and so he.
They hear him.

(47:45):
You know when he speak, youknow those, those words, you
know.
And he says I know you thinkyou're, you're down with the
boys and you you're keeping itreal.
He said because it was two moreboys with him, they stayed
outside.
Yeah, he said I want you toknow.
None of my boys have ever cometo see me yeah, we're in the
letter or sent me a dollar for asnack.

(48:05):
He said my boys testifiedagainst me and they did.
You know they were locked upuntil the trial.
Yeah, when they got on thatstand there was like, yeah, he
did it.
And you know he ran back to thecar.
We didn't know he had a gun andyou know he told us what he did
.
I could see him sitting therelistening to his boys you know
my ride or die, you know andthey're like, and I tell you

(48:29):
they they gave their testimonyand they walked right out that
front door with me.
Yeah, you know and he tells them.
You know he says you know, whenyou're in that courtroom it's
no longer ride or die togetherfor life, it's everybody for
their self.
You know, right, he lets himknow.
So he said be mindful of whoyou call your friend, be mindful
of who you you're hangingaround with.

(48:50):
You know if you got a friendand you know he's doing
something wrong, you knowseparate from him.
You know, cut that relationshipoff.
You know, I mean he, he gives apowerful, powerful message.
You know, and just justrecently, the last Video we did,
and we have a section where Ijust asked some questions If you
he would share, and and one ofthe last things he said, he said

(49:13):
when I, when I first arrivedhere, my name was to core your
criner, and he said now I'm onlyknown as inmate J5892,.
You know you lose your identityin here.
I'm known as a number.
You know I have no name, I'minmate.
You know, and those are a verypowerful words.
You know he let them know that,that this is real and even with

(49:36):
Christ and even as big as he is, everyday your back is against
the wall.
I mean him and his cellmates.
You know they have been jumped,he has been stabbed, he has
been and you don't get theTreatment like you would get.
You know at home and you knowthe.
You know.
He said you have a guards arecoming but they're not running,

(49:57):
you know, to save you.
You know this is this is kindof like what you get for being
in here.
You know this is, this is reallife.
So you know.
And he said if I can just reachone, you know I'm coming in here
.
He said I'm so tired of seeingyoung man under the age of 20
Coming in here with me with lifesentences, you know, and and a
lot of them are not half hissize, so he know what the

(50:21):
outcome is gonna be.
You know he's seen him taketheir life.
He's held some of them up Afterthey wrap the sheet around in
there.
Can he screaming for the guardsto come get them?
So he's holding them up.
So they don't, you know, taketheir life.
You know.
But he says sometime in themiddle of the night, you're him
screen.
I guess it hits him that.

(50:42):
You know this is it?
Yeah, he says.
You know he.
He says I have a release date.
My release date is is 999, 9999.
He said this is where I'll bewhen I take my last breath, you
know, and so he, he, he tells itlike it is.
He hit home.

(51:02):
He tells him you know abouttheir decision-making, you know
about who you're you're hangingout with and that's really, you
know, my message, that's what Iwant them to know.
So I've had the opportunity tospeak to some of our High
schools around here I hope Ihave get some more, but just to
speak to the youth, to let themhear from him.

(51:22):
You know, if the video system isis working, you know they could
actually see him.
Yeah, you know, and he was fromhim live and in prison, you
know, and so his, his message is, is a powerful one, and just
the the end of last year he isnow an ordained minister.
You know that Leads praise, youknow, into prison and then

(51:45):
ministers to others andencourage.
You know, and I Tell people,you know the Bible say they
would have known what they weredoing, they never would have
crucified our Lord.
Yeah, and I tell people, ifSatan would have known what
really was gonna happen, hewould have left those boys alone
.
You know, if he would have, ifhe would have known how God was

(52:05):
gonna bring us together.
He would have known how wewould be able to you know, touch
lives.
He would have known that thatthe Coru would become an
ordained minister you know, hewould have.
He would have went mess withsomebody else.
You know he would have.
He would have messed those boysleft, left them alone.
You know, and I thank God thatyou know my son was.

(52:25):
You know he was born again.
I know I'll see him again and Ifind peace in knowing that.
You know, I believe that wordand I know in the resurrection,
you know, and you know, marytold Jesus yeah, yeah, we'll see
him again.
You know, in the resurrection,you know, but if you would have
been here, my brother wouldn'thave died, you know, and right,

(52:46):
and he said I am theresurrection.
So I hold on to that.
I know, I believe in it and,man, I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna
see him again, I'm looking, I'mlooking forward to it.
I said right now, you know he'sup there with mom and and my
sister and just lost my dad inin January, this past January,
and so you know, I know, youknow they're, they're all

(53:08):
together and I know it's gonnabe a great family reunion, you
know when I get there.
So I look forward to that.

Amen, amen.
Guys, we will take a quickbreak here.
We'll be right back with Ike.
We have a resource that allowsyou to test how strong of a
Christian leader you are.
We designed a short quiz so youcan see for yourself how
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Don't worry, it's multiplechoice and it's a lot of fun.

(53:34):
So, to access this freeresource, visit the lion within
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and see if you are ready tounleash the lion within Ike.
I wanted to ask you something.
You know it's again Powerful,testing only powerful what the

(53:57):
core is doing and and how he'ssharing the good news of the
gospel with others, even from ohyeah, inside the prison.
I'm just.
I want to go back to one thing,because I think a lot of guys
out there you know We've all gotsome types of trials or things
that we're dealing with in lifeand you know, prayerfully we're
not dealing with, you know,losing a son the way you do, the
way that you did, rather, butit all comes down to choices and

(54:20):
and, and you mentioned, youknow, you told, you told him in
that courtroom.
You know choices haveconsequences and then, but you
also had a choice.
You know you could.
You had a choice.
You could have followed rightin suit with everyone who's
going up to that microphone and,just, you know, just been
rebuking him and just and justpouring out hate on him.
But your choice was love, and Ican't help but think that was a

(54:40):
spirit led choice.
So what message would you givethem?
The men that are listeningright now, who maybe struggling
with something that you knowsomebody's taking something from
them?
Maybe they've lost a child,maybe they've lost jobs, been
even been hurting their career,maybe they've lost finance.
You know, business deals gowrong.
Right, you get stabbed in theback and you have choices in all
these situations, what, justwhat would you?

(55:02):
What would you offer?
What would your advice?
Be there because you had anultimate choice to make and you
were obedient to the spirits.

You know I would.
I would say you know, I saidyou know, one of my, my favorite
scriptures is you know, theBible tells us, jesus told us
that in this life we were gonnahave trouble.
He told us, he told us we weregonna be some bad days.
You know, he let us know thatstraight up and that that came
from, you know, being in thatword, getting in that word.

(55:31):
So I'm telling y'all this now.
So when it happened, you won't,you won't be surprised, you
know.
You know he tells us that inthe word.
And so you know I had that in me.
I didn't know it was in me, butit was.
It was, it was in me and Idon't know if I had much of a
choice, because it was likeinstant.

(55:53):
Right, you know it was, it wasinstant for me, but I did know
that I couldn't live my life andUnforgiveness, I couldn't live
my life being angry with you forsomething you've done.
I refuse to live like that andand I made up my mind from the

(56:13):
beginning I'm not going to livelike that.
I know the others are angry, Iknow they're hurting, I know I'm
hurting them, but I knew whatwas in here and so you know the
choice was.
The choice was immediate, thechoice was instant that I'm
going to do my best to Liveaccording to the word and to

(56:36):
trust God.
And I would say to the anybodyout there that that's struggling
with anything to To trust God,no matter what.
I know it looks bad, you know.
I know you messed up, you knowI know the marriage Didn't work
out.
You know right, but it's allright.
You know you can, you can takeit to God.

(56:58):
So I encouraged them to think,as we say to the youth, before
you act.
You know, a lot of times youknow it's like that, it's like
that email once you hit send,it's gone.
You know you can't you can'treach back and undo it.
So, you know, I encourageothers, before they make that
choice, to just take a minute,breathe and really Talk to God

(57:24):
and trust him.
And and the best thing was whenI Really establish a
relationship.
You know, because I was, I wasbroken.
You know, the Bible Says theHoly Spirit sometime and we
don't know what to say.
You know, in a fill in, for usthat's in, you know, and there
were some days I Didn't know howto pray.

(57:45):
Yeah, I didn't know what reallyto Say to God, but I would just
sit there and meditate and Iknew the Holy Spirit was
Communicating for me on mybehalf and I could, I could feel
it in here, you know, it's likeI felt his presence, I knew he
was, he was there, you know, andI would have a calmness, you

(58:07):
know, because Sometime we actreal fast and and I learned even
even being in law enforcement,you know you, you have to decide
, you know I'm, I'm the police,but I still have to make the
right choice, you know, and soyou have to, you have to think
before you act, you know, and soI would courage those as that

(58:28):
struggle into to really get inthat word and to really trust
God, like I said him again, isone thing.
You know we say we trust himand you know we, we talk good,
but when trouble come, how doyou, how do you respond?
And so the only thing I couldsay to others out there, it all
came down and all comes down toto do you really believe the

(58:53):
word of God?
Do you really believe that itwould do what it say?
Do you really believe that thatHoly Spirit is there for us?
It's a gift, it's free that itwill comfort you, it will guide
you.
You know I pray for wisdom.
I Tell people I don't speak, Idon't speak good English, I

(59:14):
don't have a fancy prayer, Idon't use big words.
That's the beauty of going toGod.
It's just simply me and him.
You know, sometimes it's Godhelp me.
You know Peter cried out Lordsave me.
That was, that was prayer.
You know it was then fancyabout it.
It was Lord save me.

(59:35):
You know, as he began to, as hebegan to sing, you know Jesus,
you know, called Lazarus, ourLazarus, come forth.
That was prayer.
You know it was it.
So it's simple, you know it's.
But you have to believe that,that he will do what he said he
would do, you know.
So, when it comes down tochoices, consequences, you know,
think a minute.

(59:55):
Sometimes you have to walk away.
Yeah, don't think it today isis good for me.
Don't think, you know, after 31years, it's been a better roses
most of them have, but, butthere have been days.
But I've learned to go sit in mygarage, to go sit in my garage,
right, it just kind of peddlearound a little bit out there.

(01:00:17):
I love yard work.
I'll go outside and startpeddling in the yard or planting
flowers or something you know,and, and I tell you, a calmness
on a peaceful will come over youas I begin to.
You know, talk to God and, yeah, you know, really, really trust
his word, you know.
So, in in that sense, I justencourage others that are that

(01:00:38):
are struggling that area to toreally Trust God, to really talk
to him.
It's a simple prayer.
Is that relationship, you know?
Yes, it's a conversation, youknow.
Just have a conversation withhim, you know, and you can be by
yourself and you can say itwithin yourself or if in the

(01:00:59):
yard you could, you could talkout loud.
It's just you and him and andthat's, that's the beauty of
Prayer.
I can pray it out loud, I canpray it within myself.
You cannot, no matter what youdo, stop me from from praying,
you know, and that that's justthe beauty of God.

Chris Grainger (01:01:15):
I love it.
And I think one thing too, justfor you guys listening out
there Don't forget the timing.
You know it's God's timing,it's not ours.
If you look at you know, likeyour story, there was that
three-year period in the trialand then there was an additional
three years, you know, gettingthat letter and sending that.
So there time.
Sometimes we try to forceforgiveness or we try to force
these things, and you know whatGod's timing is perfect.

(01:01:38):
He's just never early.
So we just need to make surethat we understand God's timing
in this.
And and if you're strugglingwith something right now, you
know what?
Just keep praying your waythrough it, because I mean, it's
not like.
You know, your son died thenight before the next day.
You, you were loving him and ittook some time and I think it's
just.
We don't want to glaze over thatportion of this either, mm-hmm.

Isaac Brown (01:01:59):
Yeah, it took.
It took time for my wife, youknow, uh, and the, the first
video.
My daughter, ebony, is in it,but prior to that I hadn't
spoken to her in in years, Ihadn't seen the, the grandkids.
That relationship was so brokenthat it wasn't even a prayer.

(01:02:20):
I didn't even ask God to, youknow, I just figured that's,
that's done.
You know I've hurt them, Imessed up, uh, I was never gonna
hear from her again, I wasnever going to see those
grandkids and I would say, maybea month before we did that
first video, I received the textfrom her.

(01:02:41):
It said hello, sir, yourgrandkids would like to meet you
.
They've only seen pictures.
And I tell you that did it, man, I was, I was blown away.
I was so excited.
And the man told my wife andshe said well, have you invited
over?
And I said not, yet I wanted toshow you the text.
So we, we invited her over.
She's only a few miles from me.

(01:03:03):
Uh, got to see the, thegrandkids, and I tell you it was
just a daughter, they called megrandpa and uh, man, I tell you
we, we had pizza and and drinksand and we just laughed and
talked and we Took pictures andand from that day to this one,
it's been an absolute Blessing.

(01:03:23):
She recently moved to Atlanta,but I I told her we were doing a
video and I said, you know, ifyou would like to be in it, you
know you could.
And I said, but I want you tobe you.
If you're angry, be angry.
You know, if you're mad, be mad.
I want, I want you in there, Iwant the real you.
And she said, she said I'm notangry, dad, and and I forgive

(01:03:45):
him, I just want to know why.
And I said, well, I never askedwhy.
I said never, it never matteredto me, uh, it was nothing I
needed to know.
Uh, what had happened hadhappened, and, and I was able to
Move past that, you knowimmediately.
And she said, well, if youdon't need to know why, then I

(01:04:07):
don't need to know why.
You know, and it was absolutelyBeautiful, you know, she was
able to be in the video.
She's, you know, spoke abouther brother, with just those two
, and uh, it's just beenabsolutely Absolutely amazing,
you know.
And and uh, you know, to see mywife.
You know she would go and pickthe kids up sometime from school

(01:04:29):
and we would do stuff.
And when I look at it, you know,if I'm at the house and they
come, I'll walk in and you knowthey run and greet me with a hug
and and all I do is I looktoward heaven and I don't even
have words, you know, to seewhat, see what God has has done.
You know, and you know if youjust allow him to To be God.

(01:04:51):
You know because, like I said,that wasn't even a prayer I
figured.
You know I blew that.
You know, and and and I justlet it, let it go.
I, like I said, I never evenprayed for God to fix it.
But you know, not only do hegive us our needs, he he gives
us.
I want some time he gives.
You know things sometimes, youknow, to bless us, and that

(01:05:14):
truly Was one of the highlights.
You know, to have my daughtercome and see the kids and and uh
, just been a joy.
You know I hate to move toAtlanta.
You know, because I don't getto see them as much now.

Well, I understand what I mean.
Like you said God, he wants usto have that life and have it
abundantly.
That john 10, 10 life.
So what an incredible story.
Before I let you go, I love todo a lightning round with you.
I have a couple questions.
It's like a quick fire.
We call it feeding time at thelion with Dennis.
Are you willing to to playalong with us here?
Let's go for it, all right,let's have a little fun here at

(01:05:49):
the end.
So what's what's your, what'syour favorite hobby?
I?

A favorite hobby?
Uh, I'm telling you, uh, I liketo run and work out.

Okay, I love it, love it.
I'm gonna have to come.
When I come to Jacksonville,we're gonna have to hit a run
together and have some, havesome, have to do that.

We gotta do it.
I have a running group of menand it is Fantastic.

Love it, love it .
So after you finish that run,what's your favorite food?

My favorite food is my wife's macaroni and cheese.

Oh man All right , so I can't be touched Two
things on the list.
We're gonna we're gonna do arun and then we gotta hit some
mac and cheese ashwards Okay.

So you got it.

You got it.
That sounds good.
So, and when you think aboutGod I know we talked a lot about
God and his sovereignty intheir conversation today what's
your?
What's your favorite thing?
What jumps out is your favoritething about it?

My favorite thing about him is he never leaves me.
He is always there and I reallybelieve that now.
I believe I can call on him, Ibelieve he hears me, I believe
he's, he's ever present.
You know, I love it.
I believe that nobody can makeme doubt it.

Amen.
Now let's flip it.
What's your least favoritething about Satan?

man, I tell you, he just always messing with you.
You know, I can't, I can'tstand him, you know.
But I read the end of the bookand I tell you, uh, he's gonna
get his reward, you know, butthat's it.
He's just.
You know, I hate the fact he'she's.

(01:07:29):
He's always roaming around tosee who he can mess with.
You know, that's why we have tokeep our guard up.
I know it, I know it.

Now, how about any new habits that you've
started?
Anything you started recentlyor new habit, or something that
you think would you've enjoyed,could be a health habit or
eating habit, or just anythingin general.

Well, I haven't started anything, but I've been
thinking about starting a thing.
And you know I need to eat alittle better.
But I'm a I'm a sweet tea Cokezero guy.
Okay, I love me some sugar andhealth wise, I know I kind of
need to change that a little bit.

(01:08:09):
So, uh, that's that.
That's my next challenge, rightthere, okay, that's gonna be it
, but I never do a New Year'sresolution.

That's right.
That's right.
Well, the last question for youin our in our feeding time real
night, you know the guys thatare listening right now.
You know we have a lot oflisteners who I'm sure they're
dealing with with some strugglesin life.
You know what's one thing youhope they remember from our
conversation today.

Remember that whatever you're going through,
it will pass.
Don't let it consume you.
Uh, remember the word.
You know we're not exempt.
You know the suffering we'regoing through is nothing
compared to what, you know,christ suffered, you know, for
us.
Uh, he's given us this gift of,of salvation, he's given us the

(01:09:01):
gift of the Holy Spirit.
I'm telling you, ask him intoyour life, believe and receive
that Holy Spirit.
I'm telling you it is aconfeder, it, it will be there.
You know Christ is our mediator.
You know he goes straight tothe father.
You know, on our behalf, youknow, and I trust that, I tell

(01:09:22):
you to really trust the word andto study that word and study it
, and can just be by starting toread.
You know, read, get in that wordand read that word.
Of course, you know my pastor,pastor Jovi, I encourage you to
go on the, the 1122 website,catch some of those sermons, you
know, get some of those pastsermons, look through the, look

(01:09:44):
through all the, the box, andand you'll find the one that you
need for that moment.
You know, and I tell you hereally delivers that word.
You know that you canunderstand it.
I promise you it will be ablessing to you and you can also
tune him to him live.
You know, it's just just abeautiful thing, and and that's
what keeps me grounded in theword, Amen, I mean, this has

(01:10:09):
been phenomenal.

You mentioned the videos and stuff.
Is it anywhere you like topoint people to learn more about
you or your story or yourtestimony, or the things that
you're doing with your ministry?

Uh, actually you could.
You know, on the church website, church 1122, they have both
videos that you can actuallyactually Google.
Google my name.
Google Ike Brown.

Okay.

Ike Brown story and quite a bit of stuff of a pop
up, you know, to kind of let youknow who I am and and where I
come from and and how long I'vebeen in law enforcement.
You know I've been veryfortunate and, uh, you know,
very blessed.
Uh, I would like to say mydaughter.
You know we started the Isaac EBrown Foundation.
You know the scholarships for,for for youth.

(01:10:52):
You know we tried to, uh, youknow, encourage and help out a
little bit with, with a littlefunds for those going off to
college.
So, uh, feel free to look atthe Isaac E Brown, uh Junior
Foundation and and, uh, you know, if you feel led to to to
giving that area, you know, doso.
But you know, just the, themain thing is to trust, to

(01:11:14):
believe and to live for Christ.
You know I live my life now soI can live again.
You know, and, uh, it'sdefinitely gonna be worth it.

Amen, and we'll make sure we get links for for
those, the video as well as thefoundation for you guys out
there listening.
So check out the show notes.
We'll try to have links inthere for you guys to go
straight to that stuff.
But I this has been an honor.
I've been looking forward tothis conversation.
I knew it was gonna beemotional, but just your, your
energy, your, your, your joy forthe Lord, it came through.

(01:11:45):
So I just thank you for forbeing so open, honest and
transparent with us here todayon the Lion with Dennis.

Ah, it's been my pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me.

Every man needs to have a bunch of it is written
and their life.
When the attacks come, youbetter be ready to help you get
started.
I want to give you a free guideto get 10 scriptures that will
have you ready to fight like alion.
Along with the guide, there area series of messages designed
to come alongside you duringyour mission of committing these

(01:12:17):
verses to memory.
So get started by visiting thelion within dot US that's, the
lion within dot US and unlockyour free guide to fight like a
lion.
Alright, guys, so hopefully youenjoyed that.
Oh, sergeant Ike, he is just aphenomenal man.
I, I really, truly enjoyedevery minute I got to spend with

(01:12:41):
him.
The question I want you to thinkabout, going into this after
this conversation with with Ike,is how do you love your enemies
?
You know what does that looklike for you?
Can you?
Can you love them the way Ikedid?
I will tell you straight upthis is a hard one for me
because if I think through thatand think through that, my, my
daughters here, my son, somebodywere to take them out like that

(01:13:02):
man, I just don't know because,like I, ike mentioned vengeance
and most people want justiceand it.
It would be hard to get pastthat and by yourself you can't.
He shows you right there whatis possible when you let the
Holy Spirit do the guiding, dothe directing, and you're

(01:13:22):
obedient to it.
So if you know someone who'swho's maybe struggling, who's
had a setback or some loss, thisis a conversation you probably
want to share.
You know, not just going tomake their, their hurt any less,
but they there may be somethingin the words that Ike said that
would just be comforting tothem.
So take that time, take thatopportunity, send that out to
them.

(01:13:42):
Okay, if you can give us arating and review, that helps.
If you would just go to ourwebsite the lion with them, dot
us.
We have lots of resources therefor you guys, lots of resources
.
Check out the 30 days tounleash the lion with them.
That's a great way to getstarted.
Maybe you want to join ourcommunity.
We have tons of way to help youguys.
But I'm telling you, if you'redealing with with something and
you're struggling withforgiveness, conversations like

(01:14:04):
this matter.
They're important.
You know someone needs to sweepthem under a rug.
You need to listen and see how,how the Holy Spirit can, what
he's going to say to you andyour situation as you move
forward Alright, fellas, so getafter.
Come back for our fun.
Friday we're going to have alot of good tips for you that
you can hopefully start applyingand make that big impact on
your leadership skills.
Learn that you just keep beingobedient to the spirit, you keep

(01:14:28):
listening to Romans 8, 8, 18and what that promise that we
have right there, and thatfellas, keep unleashing the lion
with them.

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261. How To Love Your Enemy With Isaac Brown

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