April 14, 2025 • 28 mins
What child doesn't want to be a princess at some point or other, we know we both did! Sara Crewe is a great example to us for how to be a princess, no matter our circumstances, and how we can use our princess power for good.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
When I was a kid, I loved pink.
I loved long flowy dresses.
I loved sparkles and jewelry andtiaras.
Can you guess what I wanted tobe a princess?
Princess Primrose actually hi,and welcome to the Literary That
(00:21):
Post podcast where we analyzebooks and see what we can learn
from them.
I'm Caitlin.
I'm a math grad student, but Ilove English and I love
analyzing literature.
This is such a tongue twister.
And I'm Ashley, an assistanteditor for a magazine and a
writer.
Today we're going to be talkingabout one of our favorite books
from childhood, A LittlePrincess, which was written in
1905 by France Hodgson Burnett.
(00:43):
I really loved it because likeyou had at the beginning, I
wanted to be a princess when Igrew up, and I think many go
through a princess phase whenthey are kids.
Did you?
I did, but I don't think, no,you went through a tree phase.
Let's not talk about my treeface.
That's not, let's not, let's nottalk about my tree face.
I, I did go through a bit of aprincess phase, but I don't
think quite to the extent thatyou did.
(01:04):
Look, I don't think I'm out ofmy princess face to be honest.
No, no.
I still wear glitter on my faceevery day and ribbons in my
hair, and I still love longflowy pink dresses, so that is
true.
Anyway, but no, a littleprincess is really just a
beautiful, heartwarming story,and I think it's impossible to
grow out of it, to be honest.
I will be reading this bookuntil the day I die.
(01:27):
It's just beautiful.
So a good place to start whenthinking about this book is to
ask the question, what makes aprincess a princess?
And if any of you have watchedPrincess Diaries two, which is
in my opinion, a masterpiece ofcinema.
Yes, definitely.
Um, we have Anne Hathawaytelling a group of Little Orphan
(01:48):
Girls Now, in order to be aprincess, you have to believe
you are a princess.
And that sounds a little bitcliche, but that's actually kind
of the whole point of the book,A little princess, because guys
listen to this podcast too abouta question might be what makes a
person royalty?
So there is a specificdefinition of royalty.
(02:10):
You know, we have the royalfamily, the monarchs, kings and
queens, whatever.
But there's this longstandingidea that royalty is not just a
position, but.
I don't wanna say that lifestyleway of acting, but No, no.
It's a lifestyle.
It's a lifestyle choice.
I choose to be a princess in mylifestyle, but including
(02:32):
character traits, like beingnoble, which means having high
moral principles, havinghumility, listening to those who
have less than you, trying toimprove the lives of those
around you.
Defending the weak, standing upfor what's right.
They have dignity, courage, etcetera, et cetera.
So this book looks into thisidea of how you act matters no
matter what rank you were borninto.
I have a quote from our maincharacter in the book, Sarah.
(02:55):
She says, I'm a princess.
All girls are, even if they livein tiny old attics, even if they
dress in rags, even if theyaren't pretty or smart or young,
they're still princesses.
So.
Looking through this lens ofwhat it means to be royalty.
We're gonna be talking aboutthree main things.
First one is less of a theme,more of a little history lesson.
(03:16):
We're going to be going oversome of the British colonization
in India.
Then we're going to be talking alittle bit about the privilege
that some people have and how itcan actually be used for good.
And we're going to be touchingon ideas surrounding poverty.
Let's go into a little summaryof this book.
We are going to be pretty muchoutlining the entire story,
missing most of the details.
So even if you haven't read thisbook and you learn what happens
(03:39):
in the end, it is still awonderful read.
So let's get into it.
We have our main character,Sarah Crew.
I think she's seven years old inthe beginning.
Yeah.
She's sent to boarding school inEngland after having grown up in
India.
She's very wealthy.
Never wanted for anything.
Her father, who loves her verymuch, gives her everything that
(04:01):
she wants at this school.
She's treated like a princess.
She has the best room, the bestclothes.
She receives special treatmentfrom.
She has a French maid.
Oh yeah, she has a French maid,everything, but she remains very
kind and humble.
Like from the beginning we seethat she's just this beautiful
little girl, beautifulcharacter, and she befriends the
(04:23):
outcasts at her school.
A girl named Erman Guard who.
Really struggles with academicsand is bullied for it.
And a girl named Becky, who'sactually the scullery maid, few
years pass and Sarah's fatherdies when he's overseas.
And the headmistress of theschool, miss Minchin strips
Sarah of all her privileges andforces her to work as a servant
(04:47):
at the school because withSarah's father's death, it's
found out that the fortune hehad accrued was lost.
And so Sarah's status plummetsand she receives very harsh
treatments from the school.
She's often cold, she's hungry.
She has to work really hard allday.
She lives in the attic with therats whom she befriends.
(05:10):
She even names one Mel Eck.
Yet, you know, she endures allof this with kindness and grace,
and she's still kind andgenerous to those who have less
than she does.
She stays close with Becky andErman garde, and she chooses to
create this imaginary world andsee the best in things and bring
her friends up rather thanwallow in her situation.
(05:30):
Long story short, she's restoredto her wealth in the end through
a series of events that we won'tgo into.
But she's adopted by a friend ofher late father and her spirit.
The way she interacts withothers doesn't change.
And she even rescues Becky, whowas the scullery maid from her
situation.
It's kind of a happily everafter sort of story, but
honestly, there's so much tounpack from.
(05:53):
The events and the ideas.
So this book was actually myintroduction to the history of
British colonization in India.
And I think that this book mighthave been the only time I
learned about it and one of theonly reasons that I knew that it
had happened as a kid.
And the history is prettyinteresting because.
It started out as just a Britishcompany.
(06:15):
The British East Indian Companywas established in India in 1600
and began trading with variousIndian rulers, and it gradually
gained commercial influence andbegan setting up various trading
posts in different cities inIndia.
And then from the 1760s to the1850s, they started fighting for
control of territory.
(06:36):
They legit had their own armylike.
A company that has an army andthrough a bunch of different
wars and alliances andannexations and taking advantage
of the divides between differentIndian states, they were able to
take control of a lot ofterritory in India.
I.
And with this came a whole bunchof different social effects.
(06:58):
So the East India company endedup taking the role of ruler of
the territory.
So once the company took thatrole of ruler, the dynamics
between the British people andthe Indian people changed.
Before that time, there wassome.
Albeit limited mixing betweenBritish people and the Indian
people, but there wasn't thissense of superiority from the
(07:22):
British people.
But after the company startedfunctioning as a ruler.
This idea of superiority of theBritish people coming into what
they saw as this savage andheathen culture.
They really brought in thissense of superiority, that they
were better, that they werecivilized and Christian, and
they needed to do away with theIndian cultures and religion
(07:45):
and.
It's interesting because WilliamWilberforce, who was a
parliamentary leader and foughtagainst the slave trade in
England, actually felt Hinduismwas a greater evil than slavery.
And that was really to do withthat sense of superiority and
the idea that they had all theanswers and everyone else in the
(08:06):
world did not.
And as a result, India became asource of raw materials and a
market for British goods.
And it was kind of seen assomething to be exploited and
taken over.
And these ideas of socialDarwinism and imperialism really
thrived in this culture becauseit gave them this feeling of
they have a right to do this tonon-white, non-Christian
(08:29):
countries.
we will come back to that ideaof social dualism a little bit
later, So with this came a bunchof social and cultural changes,
the British forced a morewestern way of life onto the
culture.
British missionaries andofficials introduced Western
education and legal systems andChristian mission work, and they
often did this disregardingIndian traditions, and this
(08:52):
ended up fueling a lot ofresentment in the Indian people.
The whole idea was to remake andreform India into a more western
nation.
And now you might be thinking,Hey, that's good.
They got the benefits oftechnology and trade and
education and Christianity.
A couple points about that.
When Christianity was brought toIndia, it was done in a way that
reinforced the superiority ofmissionaries and the shaming and
(09:15):
degradation of people whopractice their traditional
religions.
And there were actually lawsthat were passed that allowed
Hindus to convert toChristianity, but forbade people
to return to Hinduism, and thatwas not good.
The problem with all of this isthat it did a lot of damage.
It disrupted the way of life fora lot of people, and it bred
intense anger and resentment,which pretty much counteracted
(09:36):
any kind of positive influenceand.
A note on religion.
We've talked some about howreligion being forced onto a
society is never a good thing.
In our episode on the book,Elantra, and we talked a lot
about how the end does notjustify the means, you can't try
to save someone by forcing them.
It just destroys the messageyou're trying to share.
(09:57):
Anyway, so all of this led up toa revolt in 1857, which was
called The First War ofIndependence, and it was a major
uprising by Indian soldiers andcivilians against this British
rule, and it was sparked bycultural and political
grievances.
It was.
Brutally suppressed, and itmarked a major turning point in
(10:18):
British rule in India becauseafter that revolt, the Indian
government actually dissolvedthe East India company and took
control of India directly.
And this happened under QueenVictoria and is referred to as
the British Raj or the BritishRulership.
In the late 18 hundreds, early19 hundreds, educated Indians
began organizing.
(10:39):
For political rights, formingthe Indian National Congress in
1885 and pushing for reform,self-rule and independence, and
then that led into Gandhi andhis mass nonviolent resistance
against British rule.
This then led into Britaingranting independence to India
in 1947.
(10:59):
After that, the subcontinent waspartitioned into two nations,
India and Pakistan, which causeda whole bunch of violence and a
whole bunch of displacement outof a lot of people.
And a little princess waspublished in 1905, so it was
just during that time whenBritish Rule was pretty
entrenched, but the resistancewas just beginning.
And it's interesting readingthis book, how it really
(11:20):
diminishes the impact of thisBritish rule.
It was just normal at the time,and.
In many ways, this bookcritiques society with themes of
poverty and class, but theeffect of colonialism, those
generational traumatic effectsthat we talked about a bit more
in our episode on WeatheringHeights was not really touched
on, and Sarah's restoration toher wealth and her privilege at
(11:43):
the end of the book actuallydirectly descends from Britain's
domination over India and herchildhood in India is idealized.
She talks about having hadIndian servants and an Indian
ia.
Which is a nursemaid or nanny.
And in fact, the only timeIndians are mentioned in the
book is in the context ofservants.
It to me seems like maybe thiswas a bit of a blind spot for
(12:06):
France.
Hodgson Burnett, and that'sinteresting because it seems
like she genuinely wanted totake on themes of inequality and
poverty, et cetera.
But she just missed this area,and I think that that's why it's
important to be continuouslylearning and growing your
understanding of the worldaround you.
And also when looking at peoplein history, I think it's
important that we neithercompletely condemn them for the
(12:28):
harmful attitudes that they maynot have been aware of.
Nor completely absolve them ofthe things that they may have
done in their culture.
We need to understand that theywere a product of their time,
but be aware that they couldhave and probably should have
done better.
So this makes me wonder whatmight be some of our blind spots
that we have, and I think thatmaybe one of those blind spots
(12:50):
that we have is we don't alwaysrecognize the advantages that we
might have in our society and.
A good word to use to talkabout, this is actually the word
privilege.
Now.
Privilege is a word that people.
Often shy away from people don'tlike using the word privilege
and conversations aroundprivilege often end in conflict.
(13:12):
People have this misconceptionthat having privilege means the
following three things.
You are a bad person, you arerich, and you have always had it
easy.
It's more nuanced than that.
Across history and literature.
We see countless heroes who comefrom privileged backgrounds and
who go through tough times.
(13:33):
It's unfortunately true thatsome have more advantages than
others and it's not anyone'schoice that that happens, and
you might immediately think ofwhite privilege or male
privilege, but there are otherways that privilege exists.
For example, you have privilegeif your parents are still
together.
Your privilege, if your parentsmade you lunch for school, your
privileged if you were born in awealthy country.
(13:54):
A little princess is a goodexample of.
A book that has a privilegedhero.
We have discussed colonialism,how it contributes to Sarah's
wealth.
She's in a private school.
She wants absolutely nothingwhen it comes to material
possessions, but she's a verykind and empathetic person.
Might be a few reasons why.
First of all, you know, theauthor wanted a likable hero,
(14:15):
but she grew up in India,potentially saw poverty and felt
the injustice of it.
She was raised with a widerworldview and with a
compassionate father too.
For whatever reason, Sarah's nota spoiled brat who hates on
those who have less than shedoes.
Her privilege causes her to bevery naive.
It causes some of the adults inthe story to look at her very
(14:35):
cynically.
Like Ms.
Minchin who says, I guess that'seasy for a girl who has
everything.
See, privilege can be used.
In two ways, power orcompassion.
Unfortunately, using privilegefor power is very common today.
We see it in domestic violence,patterns in politics, career
opportunities, et cetera.
But privilege also has theability to close gaps.
(14:57):
While Sarah is still rich in thebeginning, she's very kind to
Becky, the scullery maid.
She treats her as an equal.
She invites her into her room toeat cake to talk.
She has the freedom as someonein a higher class to extend
kindness to someone consideredby society as lower.
Sarah's also very kind to HermanGuard who struggles.
(15:18):
A lot in school and is bullied.
Sarah patiently helps her.
She doesn't mock her, but sheuses her intellectual privilege
to uplift her and byintellectual privilege, you
know, she was able to learnFrench at home from her father.
Whereas Erman Guard has tostruggle through her French
books.
And so Sarah has had thisopportunity of learning at home
(15:41):
in a way that Erman guard maybedidn't.
And Sarah is also more naturallyinclined towards academics than
Erman Guard is.
Sarah is really smart, but she'salso very humble about it.
She actually says.
Perhaps to be able to learnthings quickly isn't everything.
To be kind is worth a great dealto other people.
Lots of clever people have doneharm and have been wicked.
(16:02):
Sarah also stands up to theinjustices that she sees around
her.
When one of the bullies, Laviniais really mean, Sarah stands up
to her.
Sarah's father actually saysabout her.
If Sarah had been a boy andlived a few centuries ago, she
would've gone about the countrywith her sword drawn, rescuing,
and defending everyone indistress.
She always wants to fight whenshe sees people in trouble.
(16:24):
And then, you know we have thesecond part of the story where
Sarah is stripped of her wealthand lives in the attic with the
rats.
As a scholy maid, she sayswhatever comes cannot alter one
thing.
If I am a princess in rags andtatters, I can be a princess
inside.
It would be easy to be aprincess if I were dressed in
(16:44):
cloth of gold, but it is a greatdeal, more of a triumph to be
one all the time when no oneknows it.
You know, she's hungry, she'swet, cold and tired constantly.
But yet she has chosen to have acertain attitude towards her
circumstances and to still bekind to other people around her.
(17:05):
Two, in her words, be aprincess.
'cause that's what it means tobe a princess for Sarah, one
time she finds a coin in thestreet and she buys some buns
with it, but.
She finds a girl sitting outsidethe bakery and she gives her
five of the six buns that shehas bought'cause she still
recognizes that.
(17:25):
She has more than this girl, andeven though she herself is
hungry, she still extends thatkindness to someone beneath her.
Sarah also creates thisbeautiful imaginative world for
her and Becky up in the attic,and even when she's tied and
weary, she puts the effort infor Becky because she realizes
that Becky has never had orexperienced anything like this
(17:46):
before.
They set up these little dinnerstogether, and Sarah always.
Describes what their table wouldlook like, what kind of food
they are eating, even thoughthey're eating dry crusts of
bread or whatever, what the roomlooks like and all these
beautiful things.
And honestly, it really changesBecky's life just to have Sarah
in the next room over being kindto her.
(18:09):
And when Sarah's restored to herstatus, she gets Becky out of
her situation.
We can see that she doesn'tleave others in the dust when
she's elevated.
That being said, going back tothe idea that maybe France,
Hodgson Burnett had a coupleblind spots.
Becky goes with Sarah to be hermaid rather than her equal.
So there were still these ideasof maybe preserving the
(18:33):
different ranks of classes.
It was ultimately a much, muchbetter place for Becky to be.
But it is interesting to notethat there was still that idea
that the whole master andservant dynamic was preserved in
the movie that was made aboutthis book.
Becky is actually adopted as hersister.
That's interesting that theychose to update that for a more
(18:55):
modern audience.
Yeah, and it's interesting howsociety does change and we need
to be aware of that.
Yeah, for sure.
So back to Sarah, we see thatshe has enormous privilege,
especially when paralleled withsomeone like Becky.
Yet she uses it for good, forkindness, and she's able to
fight against injustice becauseshe has the resources and you
(19:17):
know, all this Fighting forjustice is limited because she's
a child.
It consists on sharing what shehas on making a conscious effort
to be kind.
Thinking through her actionsbefore she acts and speaks, and
I thought that was actuallyreally interesting that the
author doesn't portray Sarah asthis perfect little being for
whom all of this comesnaturally.
She sometimes has to reallyfight against her circumstances,
(19:42):
her hunger, her pain.
And put a real conscious effortinto how she's going to react.
You know, that's a really goodreminder for us when we feel
discouraged because we can'ttake on a whole world problem or
a whole system problem.
It's a good reminder that alittle bit can go a long way and
can make these ripple changes.
(20:03):
Yeah, maybe the world would beeasier if people recognized that
they have privilege.
In multiple ways and use it forgood, such as showing empathy
for others.
It's almost like having thislittle bit of a superpower that
you maybe didn't ask for, andyou can use that to make some
real change in the world.
(20:24):
It's also important to note thatprivilege is completely separate
from character and it's justluck of the draw, as Sarah says
in the book, why we are just thesame.
I'm only a little girl like you.
It's just an accident that I'mnot you and you are not me.
The same concept can be appliedto a lack of privilege, such as
poverty.
Yeah.
Who is born into poverty and whois not really is just luck of
(20:47):
the draw.
And there seems to be thissubconscious idea that's
floating around out there thatpoverty is a reflection of
character, which.
Is the result of the idea thatyou should just have to pull
yourself up by your ownbootstraps.
Meaning if you're poor, youshould pull yourself out of
poverty by your own efforts.
And if you don't or can't, thenthat's a reflection of your
(21:09):
character.
You're not brave enough, smartenough, you don't have enough
perseverance, et cetera.
This is a dangerous ideology.
It completely absolves those whoare more wealthy of any
responsibility to help others,and makes way for the hoarding
of wealth to not be questioned.
It ties people's value to theamount of money they have and
(21:30):
contributes to this idea that weshouldn't help the poor because
they deserve to be poor.
And I think a lot of the time,this is subconscious.
I think that if you askedsomebody, then they would not
necessarily agree with thatstatement, but they might have
this subconscious.
Idea in the back of their minds.
And this can lead to disdain forpeople trapped in poverty and an
(21:50):
unwillingness to help them withthe resources you might have.
And this leads back into thisidea of social Darwinism that
was mentioned at the beginning.
So social Darwinism.
A pseudoscientific field, whichaccording to the Encyclopedia
Britannica held that the life ofhumans in society was a struggle
(22:11):
for existence, ruled by quoteunquote the survival of the
fittest.
And this idea, if it's taken tothe extreme, can lead to the
extermination of one group ofpeople by another, because they
weren't strong enough tosurvive.
But in day-to-day life.
The most common expression of itis just that the poor deserve to
(22:32):
be poor and they don't deserveany help because they are just
unfit.
And this leads to the idea thatwelfare programs should be
dismantled because it'sinterfering with this natural
process of selection.
And a really common expressionof social Darwinism I've heard
in culture is, well, why shouldmy tax dollars be used to help
(22:55):
someone else?
There's this idea that if peopleare poor, it's through their own
choosing, which is not usuallythe case.
There's usually a lot of factorsthat go into poverty.
And it's very easy to be trappedwithin a cycle of poverty
because sometimes it can be moreexpensive to be poor.
Hear me out, author Terry prtputs it this way, if you are
(23:17):
wealthy, you can afford a reallygood pair of boots, say costing
$50 and they will last you 20years.
But if you can't afford a pairof boots that's that expensive,
you'll buy a cheaper pair, sayfor$10, but they'll give out
within six months, and thenyou'll have to buy another pair
and another pair and anotherpair.
In the end, the poor person willhave spent a lot more on boots
(23:39):
than the richer person who wasable to pay$50 upfront to have
good boots.
And this dynamic is somethingthat traps poor people in
poverty.
And poverty is actually reallyhard to escape despite.
Factors like hard work and otherthings.
It's not something that can beeasily just, oh, you work hard
(24:01):
and you won't be poor anymore.
There's, it's not nearly assimple as that.
There's a really good quote byAnand GI Harris, which says,
when we confuse wealth withvirtue, the poor can be blamed
for their own poverty, and therich can be seen as deserving of
their fortunes.
And you know, this leads to thevaluing of people based on their
wealth.
(24:22):
And this has taken on reallywell in a little princess.
The head mistress, miss Minchin,treats Sarah like a pet, the
favorite, the princess, untilshe's stripped of all her
wealth.
Then she stops treating Sarahlike a cherished little girl,
and demotes her to servantstatus, treating her incredibly
harshly.
It's interesting that the levelof quote unquote kindness that's
(24:44):
being showed was really based onthe class of the person
receiving it.
And with that comes this ideathat.
If you're wealthy, you should berespected and treated well.
And when you're poor, you shouldbe treated like dirt.
And I have to wonder where thisattitude came from.
And we talked a bit about socialDarwinism and how that led to
(25:05):
this attitude, but I do wonderhow it became so entrenched in
our society and how has it eveninfiltrated religions that are
supposed to be about helpingpoor people.
That's something to think about.
It's almost as if Sarah is beingpunished by Miss Minchin for her
poverty, which ties back to thisidea of poverty being a moral
(25:26):
issue.
There's this shallowness ofSarah being called a princess at
the beginning when she's reallyrich and the real meaning.
Really only comes through whenshe has nothing and still
insists that she's a princessand it's not based on anything
other than her actions towardsothers.
So our lovely listeners, what doyou think about being a princess
(25:46):
or a prince?
What do you think about it beingabout our actions rather than
our money?
Society sort of glorifies theidea of climbing the ladder,
being wealthy, being upperclass, not being kind or
empathetic because that won'tget you anywhere in life.
But how we treat other peopleactually matters most in this
world, and also not for the showof others, but just doing it
(26:08):
because it's the right thing todo.
And not only that, but.
That's what makes for ameaningful life.
The relationships that we formwith others and the community
around us, making life betterfor those around us brings
meaning to life in a way thatwealth just can't.
There was a popular bumpersticker in the 1980s.
It said he who dies with themost toys wins, and.
(26:31):
I know that's a kind of darklyfunny way of looking at it, but
it's a good reminder that reallywe will all die, and it's the
people in our life that matterand the impact that we can make
in their lives that reallymatters.
And a little princess emphasizesthat it wasn't Sarah's wealth
that made her a princess.
Rather, she's a princess allalong because of her kindness
(26:53):
and the way that she treatspeople and the way that she
holds onto her own intrinsicvalue.
So let's be princesses andprincess in that way.
Let's be kind to others.
Stand up for those lessfortunate than ourselves like
Sarah.
Let's recognize the privilegethat we might have and use it
for good in the world.
Honestly, it all boils down toLily James' famous phrase in the
2015 Cinderella.
(27:14):
Have courage and be kind.
And on that note, thank you somuch for joining us for this
episode of The LiteraryLamppost.
Join us on Instagram and shareyour thoughts with us.
We'll be posting a few communitythings this coming week, so keep
an eye on both our posts and ourstory.
We'd love to hear what youthink.
We would also love it if youjoined us for discussion on
Discord.
The link for that is in ourdescription.
(27:34):
Also, share this podcast withsomebody you think would enjoy
it.
And stay tuned for our nextepisode, which will be on the
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Thanks for listening and see younext time.
This podcast includes briefexcerpts from literary works for
(27:56):
the purpose of commentary,criticism, and analysis, which
we believe constitutes fair useunder copyright law.
Our theme music was created byJoshua Ibit for exclusive use by
the literary Lamppost podcast.
When I was a kid, I loved pink.
I loved long flowy dresses.
I loved sparkles and jewelry andtiaras.
Can you guess what I wanted tobe a princess?
Princess Primrose actually hi,and welcome to the Literary That
(00:21):
Post podcast where we analyzebooks and see what we can learn
from them.
I'm Caitlin.
I'm a math grad student, but Ilove English and I love
analyzing literature.
This is such a tongue twister.
And I'm Ashley, an assistanteditor for a magazine and a
writer.
Today we're going to be talkingabout one of our favorite books
from childhood, A LittlePrincess, which was written in
1905 by France Hodgson Burnett.
(00:43):
I really loved it because likeyou had at the beginning, I
wanted to be a princess when Igrew up, and I think many go
through a princess phase whenthey are kids.
Did you?
I did, but I don't think, no,you went through a tree phase.
Let's not talk about my treeface.
That's not, let's not, let's nottalk about my tree face.
I, I did go through a bit of aprincess phase, but I don't
think quite to the extent thatyou did.
(01:04):
Look, I don't think I'm out ofmy princess face to be honest.
No, no.
I still wear glitter on my faceevery day and ribbons in my
hair, and I still love longflowy pink dresses, so that is
true.
Anyway, but no, a littleprincess is really just a
beautiful, heartwarming story,and I think it's impossible to
grow out of it, to be honest.
I will be reading this bookuntil the day I die.
(01:27):
It's just beautiful.
So a good place to start whenthinking about this book is to
ask the question, what makes aprincess a princess?
And if any of you have watchedPrincess Diaries two, which is
in my opinion, a masterpiece ofcinema.
Yes, definitely.
Um, we have Anne Hathawaytelling a group of Little Orphan
(01:48):
Girls Now, in order to be aprincess, you have to believe
you are a princess.
And that sounds a little bitcliche, but that's actually kind
of the whole point of the book,A little princess, because guys
listen to this podcast too abouta question might be what makes a
person royalty?
So there is a specificdefinition of royalty.
(02:10):
You know, we have the royalfamily, the monarchs, kings and
queens, whatever.
But there's this longstandingidea that royalty is not just a
position, but.
I don't wanna say that lifestyleway of acting, but No, no.
It's a lifestyle.
It's a lifestyle choice.
I choose to be a princess in mylifestyle, but including
(02:32):
character traits, like beingnoble, which means having high
moral principles, havinghumility, listening to those who
have less than you, trying toimprove the lives of those
around you.
Defending the weak, standing upfor what's right.
They have dignity, courage, etcetera, et cetera.
So this book looks into thisidea of how you act matters no
matter what rank you were borninto.
I have a quote from our maincharacter in the book, Sarah.
(02:55):
She says, I'm a princess.
All girls are, even if they livein tiny old attics, even if they
dress in rags, even if theyaren't pretty or smart or young,
they're still princesses.
So.
Looking through this lens ofwhat it means to be royalty.
We're gonna be talking aboutthree main things.
First one is less of a theme,more of a little history lesson.
(03:16):
We're going to be going oversome of the British colonization
in India.
Then we're going to be talking alittle bit about the privilege
that some people have and how itcan actually be used for good.
And we're going to be touchingon ideas surrounding poverty.
Let's go into a little summaryof this book.
We are going to be pretty muchoutlining the entire story,
missing most of the details.
So even if you haven't read thisbook and you learn what happens
(03:39):
in the end, it is still awonderful read.
So let's get into it.
We have our main character,Sarah Crew.
I think she's seven years old inthe beginning.
Yeah.
She's sent to boarding school inEngland after having grown up in
India.
She's very wealthy.
Never wanted for anything.
Her father, who loves her verymuch, gives her everything that
(04:01):
she wants at this school.
She's treated like a princess.
She has the best room, the bestclothes.
She receives special treatmentfrom.
She has a French maid.
Oh yeah, she has a French maid,everything, but she remains very
kind and humble.
Like from the beginning we seethat she's just this beautiful
little girl, beautifulcharacter, and she befriends the
(04:23):
outcasts at her school.
A girl named Erman Guard who.
Really struggles with academicsand is bullied for it.
And a girl named Becky, who'sactually the scullery maid, few
years pass and Sarah's fatherdies when he's overseas.
And the headmistress of theschool, miss Minchin strips
Sarah of all her privileges andforces her to work as a servant
(04:47):
at the school because withSarah's father's death, it's
found out that the fortune hehad accrued was lost.
And so Sarah's status plummetsand she receives very harsh
treatments from the school.
She's often cold, she's hungry.
She has to work really hard allday.
She lives in the attic with therats whom she befriends.
(05:10):
She even names one Mel Eck.
Yet, you know, she endures allof this with kindness and grace,
and she's still kind andgenerous to those who have less
than she does.
She stays close with Becky andErman garde, and she chooses to
create this imaginary world andsee the best in things and bring
her friends up rather thanwallow in her situation.
(05:30):
Long story short, she's restoredto her wealth in the end through
a series of events that we won'tgo into.
But she's adopted by a friend ofher late father and her spirit.
The way she interacts withothers doesn't change.
And she even rescues Becky, whowas the scullery maid from her
situation.
It's kind of a happily everafter sort of story, but
honestly, there's so much tounpack from.
(05:53):
The events and the ideas.
So this book was actually myintroduction to the history of
British colonization in India.
And I think that this book mighthave been the only time I
learned about it and one of theonly reasons that I knew that it
had happened as a kid.
And the history is prettyinteresting because.
It started out as just a Britishcompany.
(06:15):
The British East Indian Companywas established in India in 1600
and began trading with variousIndian rulers, and it gradually
gained commercial influence andbegan setting up various trading
posts in different cities inIndia.
And then from the 1760s to the1850s, they started fighting for
control of territory.
(06:36):
They legit had their own armylike.
A company that has an army andthrough a bunch of different
wars and alliances andannexations and taking advantage
of the divides between differentIndian states, they were able to
take control of a lot ofterritory in India.
I.
And with this came a whole bunchof different social effects.
(06:58):
So the East India company endedup taking the role of ruler of
the territory.
So once the company took thatrole of ruler, the dynamics
between the British people andthe Indian people changed.
Before that time, there wassome.
Albeit limited mixing betweenBritish people and the Indian
people, but there wasn't thissense of superiority from the
(07:22):
British people.
But after the company startedfunctioning as a ruler.
This idea of superiority of theBritish people coming into what
they saw as this savage andheathen culture.
They really brought in thissense of superiority, that they
were better, that they werecivilized and Christian, and
they needed to do away with theIndian cultures and religion
(07:45):
and.
It's interesting because WilliamWilberforce, who was a
parliamentary leader and foughtagainst the slave trade in
England, actually felt Hinduismwas a greater evil than slavery.
And that was really to do withthat sense of superiority and
the idea that they had all theanswers and everyone else in the
(08:06):
world did not.
And as a result, India became asource of raw materials and a
market for British goods.
And it was kind of seen assomething to be exploited and
taken over.
And these ideas of socialDarwinism and imperialism really
thrived in this culture becauseit gave them this feeling of
they have a right to do this tonon-white, non-Christian
(08:29):
countries.
we will come back to that ideaof social dualism a little bit
later, So with this came a bunchof social and cultural changes,
the British forced a morewestern way of life onto the
culture.
British missionaries andofficials introduced Western
education and legal systems andChristian mission work, and they
often did this disregardingIndian traditions, and this
(08:52):
ended up fueling a lot ofresentment in the Indian people.
The whole idea was to remake andreform India into a more western
nation.
And now you might be thinking,Hey, that's good.
They got the benefits oftechnology and trade and
education and Christianity.
A couple points about that.
When Christianity was brought toIndia, it was done in a way that
reinforced the superiority ofmissionaries and the shaming and
(09:15):
degradation of people whopractice their traditional
religions.
And there were actually lawsthat were passed that allowed
Hindus to convert toChristianity, but forbade people
to return to Hinduism, and thatwas not good.
The problem with all of this isthat it did a lot of damage.
It disrupted the way of life fora lot of people, and it bred
intense anger and resentment,which pretty much counteracted
(09:36):
any kind of positive influenceand.
A note on religion.
We've talked some about howreligion being forced onto a
society is never a good thing.
In our episode on the book,Elantra, and we talked a lot
about how the end does notjustify the means, you can't try
to save someone by forcing them.
It just destroys the messageyou're trying to share.
(09:57):
Anyway, so all of this led up toa revolt in 1857, which was
called The First War ofIndependence, and it was a major
uprising by Indian soldiers andcivilians against this British
rule, and it was sparked bycultural and political
grievances.
It was.
Brutally suppressed, and itmarked a major turning point in
(10:18):
British rule in India becauseafter that revolt, the Indian
government actually dissolvedthe East India company and took
control of India directly.
And this happened under QueenVictoria and is referred to as
the British Raj or the BritishRulership.
In the late 18 hundreds, early19 hundreds, educated Indians
began organizing.
(10:39):
For political rights, formingthe Indian National Congress in
1885 and pushing for reform,self-rule and independence, and
then that led into Gandhi andhis mass nonviolent resistance
against British rule.
This then led into Britaingranting independence to India
in 1947.
(10:59):
After that, the subcontinent waspartitioned into two nations,
India and Pakistan, which causeda whole bunch of violence and a
whole bunch of displacement outof a lot of people.
And a little princess waspublished in 1905, so it was
just during that time whenBritish Rule was pretty
entrenched, but the resistancewas just beginning.
And it's interesting readingthis book, how it really
(11:20):
diminishes the impact of thisBritish rule.
It was just normal at the time,and.
In many ways, this bookcritiques society with themes of
poverty and class, but theeffect of colonialism, those
generational traumatic effectsthat we talked about a bit more
in our episode on WeatheringHeights was not really touched
on, and Sarah's restoration toher wealth and her privilege at
(11:43):
the end of the book actuallydirectly descends from Britain's
domination over India and herchildhood in India is idealized.
She talks about having hadIndian servants and an Indian
ia.
Which is a nursemaid or nanny.
And in fact, the only timeIndians are mentioned in the
book is in the context ofservants.
It to me seems like maybe thiswas a bit of a blind spot for
(12:06):
France.
Hodgson Burnett, and that'sinteresting because it seems
like she genuinely wanted totake on themes of inequality and
poverty, et cetera.
But she just missed this area,and I think that that's why it's
important to be continuouslylearning and growing your
understanding of the worldaround you.
And also when looking at peoplein history, I think it's
important that we neithercompletely condemn them for the
(12:28):
harmful attitudes that they maynot have been aware of.
Nor completely absolve them ofthe things that they may have
done in their culture.
We need to understand that theywere a product of their time,
but be aware that they couldhave and probably should have
done better.
So this makes me wonder whatmight be some of our blind spots
that we have, and I think thatmaybe one of those blind spots
(12:50):
that we have is we don't alwaysrecognize the advantages that we
might have in our society and.
A good word to use to talkabout, this is actually the word
privilege.
Now.
Privilege is a word that people.
Often shy away from people don'tlike using the word privilege
and conversations aroundprivilege often end in conflict.
(13:12):
People have this misconceptionthat having privilege means the
following three things.
You are a bad person, you arerich, and you have always had it
easy.
It's more nuanced than that.
Across history and literature.
We see countless heroes who comefrom privileged backgrounds and
who go through tough times.
(13:33):
It's unfortunately true thatsome have more advantages than
others and it's not anyone'schoice that that happens, and
you might immediately think ofwhite privilege or male
privilege, but there are otherways that privilege exists.
For example, you have privilegeif your parents are still
together.
Your privilege, if your parentsmade you lunch for school, your
privileged if you were born in awealthy country.
(13:54):
A little princess is a goodexample of.
A book that has a privilegedhero.
We have discussed colonialism,how it contributes to Sarah's
wealth.
She's in a private school.
She wants absolutely nothingwhen it comes to material
possessions, but she's a verykind and empathetic person.
Might be a few reasons why.
First of all, you know, theauthor wanted a likable hero,
(14:15):
but she grew up in India,potentially saw poverty and felt
the injustice of it.
She was raised with a widerworldview and with a
compassionate father too.
For whatever reason, Sarah's nota spoiled brat who hates on
those who have less than shedoes.
Her privilege causes her to bevery naive.
It causes some of the adults inthe story to look at her very
(14:35):
cynically.
Like Ms.
Minchin who says, I guess that'seasy for a girl who has
everything.
See, privilege can be used.
In two ways, power orcompassion.
Unfortunately, using privilegefor power is very common today.
We see it in domestic violence,patterns in politics, career
opportunities, et cetera.
But privilege also has theability to close gaps.
(14:57):
While Sarah is still rich in thebeginning, she's very kind to
Becky, the scullery maid.
She treats her as an equal.
She invites her into her room toeat cake to talk.
She has the freedom as someonein a higher class to extend
kindness to someone consideredby society as lower.
Sarah's also very kind to HermanGuard who struggles.
(15:18):
A lot in school and is bullied.
Sarah patiently helps her.
She doesn't mock her, but sheuses her intellectual privilege
to uplift her and byintellectual privilege, you
know, she was able to learnFrench at home from her father.
Whereas Erman Guard has tostruggle through her French
books.
And so Sarah has had thisopportunity of learning at home
(15:41):
in a way that Erman guard maybedidn't.
And Sarah is also more naturallyinclined towards academics than
Erman Guard is.
Sarah is really smart, but she'salso very humble about it.
She actually says.
Perhaps to be able to learnthings quickly isn't everything.
To be kind is worth a great dealto other people.
Lots of clever people have doneharm and have been wicked.
(16:02):
Sarah also stands up to theinjustices that she sees around
her.
When one of the bullies, Laviniais really mean, Sarah stands up
to her.
Sarah's father actually saysabout her.
If Sarah had been a boy andlived a few centuries ago, she
would've gone about the countrywith her sword drawn, rescuing,
and defending everyone indistress.
She always wants to fight whenshe sees people in trouble.
(16:24):
And then, you know we have thesecond part of the story where
Sarah is stripped of her wealthand lives in the attic with the
rats.
As a scholy maid, she sayswhatever comes cannot alter one
thing.
If I am a princess in rags andtatters, I can be a princess
inside.
It would be easy to be aprincess if I were dressed in
(16:44):
cloth of gold, but it is a greatdeal, more of a triumph to be
one all the time when no oneknows it.
You know, she's hungry, she'swet, cold and tired constantly.
But yet she has chosen to have acertain attitude towards her
circumstances and to still bekind to other people around her.
(17:05):
Two, in her words, be aprincess.
'cause that's what it means tobe a princess for Sarah, one
time she finds a coin in thestreet and she buys some buns
with it, but.
She finds a girl sitting outsidethe bakery and she gives her
five of the six buns that shehas bought'cause she still
recognizes that.
(17:25):
She has more than this girl, andeven though she herself is
hungry, she still extends thatkindness to someone beneath her.
Sarah also creates thisbeautiful imaginative world for
her and Becky up in the attic,and even when she's tied and
weary, she puts the effort infor Becky because she realizes
that Becky has never had orexperienced anything like this
(17:46):
before.
They set up these little dinnerstogether, and Sarah always.
Describes what their table wouldlook like, what kind of food
they are eating, even thoughthey're eating dry crusts of
bread or whatever, what the roomlooks like and all these
beautiful things.
And honestly, it really changesBecky's life just to have Sarah
in the next room over being kindto her.
(18:09):
And when Sarah's restored to herstatus, she gets Becky out of
her situation.
We can see that she doesn'tleave others in the dust when
she's elevated.
That being said, going back tothe idea that maybe France,
Hodgson Burnett had a coupleblind spots.
Becky goes with Sarah to be hermaid rather than her equal.
So there were still these ideasof maybe preserving the
(18:33):
different ranks of classes.
It was ultimately a much, muchbetter place for Becky to be.
But it is interesting to notethat there was still that idea
that the whole master andservant dynamic was preserved in
the movie that was made aboutthis book.
Becky is actually adopted as hersister.
That's interesting that theychose to update that for a more
(18:55):
modern audience.
Yeah, and it's interesting howsociety does change and we need
to be aware of that.
Yeah, for sure.
So back to Sarah, we see thatshe has enormous privilege,
especially when paralleled withsomeone like Becky.
Yet she uses it for good, forkindness, and she's able to
fight against injustice becauseshe has the resources and you
(19:17):
know, all this Fighting forjustice is limited because she's
a child.
It consists on sharing what shehas on making a conscious effort
to be kind.
Thinking through her actionsbefore she acts and speaks, and
I thought that was actuallyreally interesting that the
author doesn't portray Sarah asthis perfect little being for
whom all of this comesnaturally.
She sometimes has to reallyfight against her circumstances,
(19:42):
her hunger, her pain.
And put a real conscious effortinto how she's going to react.
You know, that's a really goodreminder for us when we feel
discouraged because we can'ttake on a whole world problem or
a whole system problem.
It's a good reminder that alittle bit can go a long way and
can make these ripple changes.
(20:03):
Yeah, maybe the world would beeasier if people recognized that
they have privilege.
In multiple ways and use it forgood, such as showing empathy
for others.
It's almost like having thislittle bit of a superpower that
you maybe didn't ask for, andyou can use that to make some
real change in the world.
(20:24):
It's also important to note thatprivilege is completely separate
from character and it's justluck of the draw, as Sarah says
in the book, why we are just thesame.
I'm only a little girl like you.
It's just an accident that I'mnot you and you are not me.
The same concept can be appliedto a lack of privilege, such as
poverty.
Yeah.
Who is born into poverty and whois not really is just luck of
(20:47):
the draw.
And there seems to be thissubconscious idea that's
floating around out there thatpoverty is a reflection of
character, which.
Is the result of the idea thatyou should just have to pull
yourself up by your ownbootstraps.
Meaning if you're poor, youshould pull yourself out of
poverty by your own efforts.
And if you don't or can't, thenthat's a reflection of your
(21:09):
character.
You're not brave enough, smartenough, you don't have enough
perseverance, et cetera.
This is a dangerous ideology.
It completely absolves those whoare more wealthy of any
responsibility to help others,and makes way for the hoarding
of wealth to not be questioned.
It ties people's value to theamount of money they have and
(21:30):
contributes to this idea that weshouldn't help the poor because
they deserve to be poor.
And I think a lot of the time,this is subconscious.
I think that if you askedsomebody, then they would not
necessarily agree with thatstatement, but they might have
this subconscious.
Idea in the back of their minds.
And this can lead to disdain forpeople trapped in poverty and an
(21:50):
unwillingness to help them withthe resources you might have.
And this leads back into thisidea of social Darwinism that
was mentioned at the beginning.
So social Darwinism.
A pseudoscientific field, whichaccording to the Encyclopedia
Britannica held that the life ofhumans in society was a struggle
(22:11):
for existence, ruled by quoteunquote the survival of the
fittest.
And this idea, if it's taken tothe extreme, can lead to the
extermination of one group ofpeople by another, because they
weren't strong enough tosurvive.
But in day-to-day life.
The most common expression of itis just that the poor deserve to
(22:32):
be poor and they don't deserveany help because they are just
unfit.
And this leads to the idea thatwelfare programs should be
dismantled because it'sinterfering with this natural
process of selection.
And a really common expressionof social Darwinism I've heard
in culture is, well, why shouldmy tax dollars be used to help
(22:55):
someone else?
There's this idea that if peopleare poor, it's through their own
choosing, which is not usuallythe case.
There's usually a lot of factorsthat go into poverty.
And it's very easy to be trappedwithin a cycle of poverty
because sometimes it can be moreexpensive to be poor.
Hear me out, author Terry prtputs it this way, if you are
(23:17):
wealthy, you can afford a reallygood pair of boots, say costing
$50 and they will last you 20years.
But if you can't afford a pairof boots that's that expensive,
you'll buy a cheaper pair, sayfor$10, but they'll give out
within six months, and thenyou'll have to buy another pair
and another pair and anotherpair.
In the end, the poor person willhave spent a lot more on boots
(23:39):
than the richer person who wasable to pay$50 upfront to have
good boots.
And this dynamic is somethingthat traps poor people in
poverty.
And poverty is actually reallyhard to escape despite.
Factors like hard work and otherthings.
It's not something that can beeasily just, oh, you work hard
(24:01):
and you won't be poor anymore.
There's, it's not nearly assimple as that.
There's a really good quote byAnand GI Harris, which says,
when we confuse wealth withvirtue, the poor can be blamed
for their own poverty, and therich can be seen as deserving of
their fortunes.
And you know, this leads to thevaluing of people based on their
wealth.
(24:22):
And this has taken on reallywell in a little princess.
The head mistress, miss Minchin,treats Sarah like a pet, the
favorite, the princess, untilshe's stripped of all her
wealth.
Then she stops treating Sarahlike a cherished little girl,
and demotes her to servantstatus, treating her incredibly
harshly.
It's interesting that the levelof quote unquote kindness that's
(24:44):
being showed was really based onthe class of the person
receiving it.
And with that comes this ideathat.
If you're wealthy, you should berespected and treated well.
And when you're poor, you shouldbe treated like dirt.
And I have to wonder where thisattitude came from.
And we talked a bit about socialDarwinism and how that led to
(25:05):
this attitude, but I do wonderhow it became so entrenched in
our society and how has it eveninfiltrated religions that are
supposed to be about helpingpoor people.
That's something to think about.
It's almost as if Sarah is beingpunished by Miss Minchin for her
poverty, which ties back to thisidea of poverty being a moral
(25:26):
issue.
There's this shallowness ofSarah being called a princess at
the beginning when she's reallyrich and the real meaning.
Really only comes through whenshe has nothing and still
insists that she's a princessand it's not based on anything
other than her actions towardsothers.
So our lovely listeners, what doyou think about being a princess
(25:46):
or a prince?
What do you think about it beingabout our actions rather than
our money?
Society sort of glorifies theidea of climbing the ladder,
being wealthy, being upperclass, not being kind or
empathetic because that won'tget you anywhere in life.
But how we treat other peopleactually matters most in this
world, and also not for the showof others, but just doing it
(26:08):
because it's the right thing todo.
And not only that, but.
That's what makes for ameaningful life.
The relationships that we formwith others and the community
around us, making life betterfor those around us brings
meaning to life in a way thatwealth just can't.
There was a popular bumpersticker in the 1980s.
It said he who dies with themost toys wins, and.
(26:31):
I know that's a kind of darklyfunny way of looking at it, but
it's a good reminder that reallywe will all die, and it's the
people in our life that matterand the impact that we can make
in their lives that reallymatters.
And a little princess emphasizesthat it wasn't Sarah's wealth
that made her a princess.
Rather, she's a princess allalong because of her kindness
(26:53):
and the way that she treatspeople and the way that she
holds onto her own intrinsicvalue.
So let's be princesses andprincess in that way.
Let's be kind to others.
Stand up for those lessfortunate than ourselves like
Sarah.
Let's recognize the privilegethat we might have and use it
for good in the world.
Honestly, it all boils down toLily James' famous phrase in the
2015 Cinderella.
(27:14):
Have courage and be kind.
And on that note, thank you somuch for joining us for this
episode of The LiteraryLamppost.
Join us on Instagram and shareyour thoughts with us.
We'll be posting a few communitythings this coming week, so keep
an eye on both our posts and ourstory.
We'd love to hear what youthink.
We would also love it if youjoined us for discussion on
Discord.
The link for that is in ourdescription.
(27:34):
Also, share this podcast withsomebody you think would enjoy
it.
And stay tuned for our nextepisode, which will be on the
book a Little Prince.
Subscribe to our YouTube at theliterary lamppost, as well as
subscribing on Spotify or ApplePodcasts, or your preferred
podcast platform to make surethat you don't miss any of our
new episodes.
Thanks for listening and see younext time.
This podcast includes briefexcerpts from literary works for
(27:56):
the purpose of commentary,criticism, and analysis, which
we believe constitutes fair useunder copyright law.
Our theme music was created byJoshua Ibit for exclusive use by
the literary Lamppost podcast.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.