August 19, 2024 • 22 mins
Angry Young Men, the three-part documentary about writers Salim Khan and Javed Akhtar’s partnership, is a massive missed opportunity.
We discuss the show’s cagey approach to its legendary subjects, the overwhelming feeling of self-satisfaction, and the unearned points it tries to score for highlighting the plight of writers in the film business.
We also discuss the superficial filmmaking, the lack of insight provided by everybody involved, and more than anything else, express our shock at the creative decision not to put Salim-Javed in the same room together.
—
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Hi, I'm Beckham. To the log take this week we're
discussing the new Amazon primitive docu series Angry
Young Men, which is about the serene Javed partnership, what I
went through, what the highs andthe lows and how they fell apart
and stuff like that. It's our first docu series in a
while, in a few years, yeah. What do you make of Withdraw?
Do you feel like it's adds to your knowledge about what you
(00:37):
knew about them? Absolutely not, but that could
also be because, you know, my work requires me to do like.
Already read about it but like you would still imagine that if
you have access to like literally everyone, you would
unearth something. New I mean, see a show like this
is anyway going to aim at, you know, fans, people who are
(00:57):
already familiar with these two,you know, to a degree.
And I think if you're familiar with with them and their work,
then the information that the show offers is something that
you know you you'll probably already know.
It's not it's not really introducing people.
I mean, it is introducing peopleto them.
But then I don't know if anybodyI.
Don't want to be. I was actually like, I was going
(01:19):
to get to that at some point, but I guess kicking off at that
is like this is basically for a very like select audience.
I didn't it was like 2 generations of ours in some way
because like who even like people who are born after a
certain and have probably have no idea who these people are.
Probably, which is what is confusing, right?
So who are you kind of making this show for?
Is it like a is it, is it for the audience that already knows
(01:43):
them and and their work and their stories?
Because then it's not really giving you much or is it for
people who have no idea? To them, all of this is new, but
then would they even be interested, you know?
And no, even if let's say, you know, like, sure, let's say put
myself in a place that I'm I don't know these people are, but
I'm interested to, you know, learn about these people who
already like change Bollywood inthis era.
(02:04):
It it is not made in a fashion that it would make a lot of
sense to me, right. Like you haven't actually seen
some of their work. The way like the episode, first
episode throws you into it and like just starts like jumping
into stuff. Like it doesn't even set the
stage of why where Bollywood wasand how they change it was.
It's almost like throw away lines.
Like, yeah, we were making 500 movies about, like, people going
(02:24):
on holidays and movies, and thensuddenly I did something
different. Like that doesn't really set the
stage. Yeah, I suppose it doesn't
really give you much context about what was happening or why
they were so. Yeah, because I remember that
Karanju overcomed and says that,you know, it was like all fluff
before this. But then that's also not
entirely true because, you know,it's like the the Indian film
(02:47):
industry has been, you know, it's like 100 years old and
we've had like multiple waves. So I got to skip Bansal Pele.
The mainstream was doing one something doesn't really define
what the entire country was. So anyway, there's one of those
things where, you know, every kind of scene is designed to
just be like nothing greater hasever happened on the planet than
(03:08):
these two, which I found. After the point, because he's
like that you need like a different angle on it, right?
Which like, I think Anju Rajabali is probably the only
person who gets to do that. Like in possibly in episode 3
where he starts pointing out that, you know, like, hello,
they weren't actually the greatest that female characters
had problems and this was a problem.
But then we scale like 10 seconds, but it's like bring in
some family member and some Betty or Beta and they're like
(03:30):
then it's upgrade. I'm like, who do you think I
want to trust the the daughter or some random outsider?
Yeah, it's just tokenism, right?It's like we can't.
Like it's in fact it's it reeks or something that Zoya Akhtar
and Farhan Akhtar themselves might have just come up with
that we need like a voice to counter everything that's
already entirely. Possible because like the kids
(03:50):
are producing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it reeks. It's just one of those things
that hard Dal Nikki just for thesake of it.
We have that one throwaway line,which is fully possible that,
you know, you might just miss itbecause it's so like tiny and so
buried in like a different story.
But then when you immediately counter it with like Rima Gagti
defending and literally having adifficult time defending it
(04:10):
because she can't really find the correct words to be like,
haha, but you know, it's fine. Context.
How was time message which is a good?
Offense because like, there wereenough people just, you know,
offering something. Different at that time itself.
Yeah, right. So exactly so this the entire
series, it's very unfortunate that they chose to kind of make
it in this fashion because firstly, you're it comes across
(04:34):
as like a, you know, just like avanity thing that.
Like a whole movie, almost like it's imagined, like Faridabad
Pass one day, like Karpe, like, you know, like Zoya and Varan
and Salman need something to play them.
Like, yeah, let's play our tribute to our parents.
I just like, it's not really incisive, right?
You don't really get to understand who these people were
beyond just like, you know, we had a difficult, we had
(04:55):
difficult beginnings and then just we stumbled into this and
all that. You know, it's not like
psychologically penetrate. Nick Arango.
Yeah. And.
The one thing that you would want to eventually parrot it is
like, you know why they walk their separate ways?
Like you thought like in the end, the second episode like
that I'm like, oh great, fine, maybe episode dig into it.
Now the first half of the third episode is like, forget about
(05:16):
the clear. Fact.
Forget that they laid that. Yeah, yeah, I think.
How we get to it like these, they don't even return to that
point. And when they return to it,
they're like, well, these guys never really talk about it.
And so we will also not try to like push it the button.
Too much, yeah, which is the weirdest thing which I baffles
me that by this thing even exists.
Right, because the entire part of a documentary should be that
(05:37):
press the thing that people are on, you talk about, you have to
get someone to talk about it, but you just like, let's just
leave it at that. So it's one thing to watch this
three episode thing and then wonder why in like Deep in
episode 3 is the first time someone actually talks about Oh
yeah, split happened. But then it's a whole different
thing all together to realize isthat the entire world or people
(05:59):
you know who would be familiar with this stuff have known about
the split for like, 50 years. Yeah.
So people who tune into this already know that these people
split. And it was, if nothing else,
that's the only thing they know about these people, right?
They were like this dream team, that split.
It's like the Mahesh Leander thing, right?
Even if you don't want to watch tennis, you know that it.
(06:20):
Was very acrimonious. Exactly.
So in fact, he should have opened with like, listen, you
guys split why like? Why does the team which deliver
like 20 movies which are great great of the box of a split like
that should be our opening 3 minutes.
And The thing is that over the years, both of them have spoken
extensively about what happened,right?
(06:43):
Not to say that they provided any insight of what happened,
but they've spoken about it extensively.
Now the problem is that since somuch of their comments are in
the public domain, it's your responsibility when you're
making a documentary film to provide something beyond what
already exists right now. The issue is they simply repeat
themselves in the show and what they say is so obviously Juta
(07:05):
like it's like it reeks of also you don't want to talk about it
then why? It's like old people who I just
wonder like, you know, like justremember the good times.
And like, yeah, that doesn't make for a good documentary and
great for your personal lives, but that's not making me like
this. Me turns into a good watch.
Same thing. The other problem and I think
one of the reasons why it feels like this, the entire show is
(07:27):
that the people being interviewed did not give much
time. I don't know how long they shot
this for maybe many years because we have like COVID
footage, masks and all. So that's kind of telling.
Then in one thing, one scene, I think Salman Khan's family is
like having lunch or something. And like I noticed that Arbaaz
Khan's new wife is in that scene, which has to be like this
(07:50):
year, you know? So that's like two years at
least, right? Is your filming period?
Yeah, But USME, the interviews, like Salman Khan appears once.
He must have probably sat for like 15 minutes.
Yeah, right. Farhan appears maybe in two
different settings, I'm not sure.
But not more than two. Even Javed Akhtar and Salim Khan
not more than two or three different interviews.
(08:12):
Possible like I think 4. I think with Javed I could.
Maximum, Yeah, but that's not enough, right?
If you have access to all these people and some some of them
don't really talk much anymore, which is Salman Khan, then you
brought them, right? You get someone who can prod
them you. And if you sense like there are
so many moments where Java doctor particularly just pauses
(08:33):
and tears up at some memory. But this shows like how hard he
get he get done and then moves on to something else
immediately. They're like, OK, so you had a
moment there rare and you didn'tlike do anything with it and you
just moved on. Like I can get more insight out
of like Barkhart, that's interview of this guy than the
show produced by his own children.
So that should be telling. Yeah.
It is like, I mean very rare, like inside, you know, like when
(08:54):
in the first episode, they're not like I think I mean the
second one, there's the second one, sorry, where like they're
all talking about, you know, howtheir movies and the scripts
were like tapping into like, youknow, like whatever the rage of
the social particular shows. And it's get teen saying about,
which is like probably the one of the good edits, like Java
comes in and he's like, we weren't thinking about any of
that. And it's like that's how I love
like that's what you want. You know, like these guys just
like they were just there because these are the kind of
(09:16):
people they were. But yeah, I think the real stuff
where you actually like dig intolike why they did something like
just like mostly just either, asyou said, brush stalls or not
even like explode. Yeah.
I mean, now that they've the show has introduced this angle
itself and it has said that, oh,but it wasn't by design.
It was just like they were just products of that period.
And perhaps that is why those ideas were in their movies.
(09:39):
Then you need to have like some sort of scholar or someone
knowledgeable pop in and be like, here's what you know.
At that time, yeah. And which happens once they
there is some JNU person, Yeah, if I'm not wrong.
But then but it's just one of those talking points like you
have a bath to Karnithi because counter like we this was
happening in the country, emergency was happening.
(10:00):
We need to address this point. But then they just move on from
it, which is like. Reflective of like The funny
thing like is of their like their own movies is that you
give like 3 minutes of your whatever.
I'm guessing total 1120 minute docu cities to like the actual
like experts can talk about it and then 105 minutes are given
to like family members, which isreflective of basically like
(10:22):
them making these, you know, like calling like oh be hard
movies that strong women, but they had no.
Role to play. They had like professions, which
is sure. But then they were like
unnecessary to the plot. It is like a rolled over.
What's it's baffling to be like someone like someone who is
included or someone who's just tangentially, like, interested
in all this, could watch this and just walk away thinking
(10:43):
that, you know, Satyajit Ray didn't exist.
Yeah, 20 years, 25 years before these two.
Yeah, exactly. I noticed, you know, like that
when they like talk in that third episode when they're
mentioning that shark all thing,I'm like, how are you not
mentioning a single Hollywood movie that this is like Rev
Dostrom right now. But they do address that one
again. They just address it once.
Oh, we just copied it with the because we thought that we have
(11:06):
like previous episode. Like previous episode.
Like 40 minutes earlier, like the distance is deliberate.
They warned the audience to not like, have that memory when
they're showing. And I'm like, either fooled Dr.
Noah Jims. One word.
What? What?
Are you fooling me right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the weird thing is, and I'm sure like for a lot of Indian
people, they watch Sholay beforethey watch all the 15 movies
(11:27):
that they've copied, right, to make Sholay, which is what
happened with me. I watched Sholay and like
everybody else sound like, wow, fun movie, you know?
And then when you grow up, you watch all the other, like Once
Upon a Time in the West and stuff.
You're like, Oh my God. So there are entire scenes that
you've got me frame to frame in this whole way.
I mean, it doesn't really impactyour memory of shoulder because
(11:48):
that's attached to 15 different things.
But then it does kind of recontextualize the film itself,
right? Yeah, Which they mentioned only
in passing. And then they brush it off
almost like a little arrogantly.I was like, bro, it's like.
Even then, like that was the first moment I think, in that
obviously where I was like, oh, like the most things they've
grown up on, right? They're like 9A's Kabura
(12:09):
neighbours there. We have like I admit my mistake,
we made an error, but this is the one thing they were like 999
like they hadn't seen. Which just goes to show, right,
because sure, in 2024, a lot more people are talking about
women's agency, especially in Hindi cinema, but nobody's
really talking about plagiarism,right?
(12:30):
Yeah. So I'm guessing like in 2034,
when plagiarism it becomes more of an issue, they might look
back and be like, Oh yeah, but that was a mistake.
I think I want someone in 20 years to open up this docu
series and then comment on everystar who comes in and praises
writers and is the same guy responsible for not having
scripts in his own things like that.
Lack of self-awareness is the most annoying thing.
(12:51):
I could not stand armor and the thick and Karan George showing
up and this. Show end in this very bizarre
fashion where they have like, I don't sound mean, but like
nobody's right. And they pop up and they're like
aspiring writer. I'm like OK.
Yeah, writer. Yeah, so I understand what
(13:12):
you're going for, but so this isnot the place.
The show wasn't leading up to this, no.
Did you build up to this to haveyour cake?
Because the entire like that given to other people, you let
them have a field like I love these guys.
You would know. But listen man, like so you have
(13:35):
chosen to end your show with people were struggling in the
industry and complaining about bears on air.
But that would make sense if it comes at the tail end of a three
episode thing in which the protagonist Salim and Javed were
also underpaid and undervalued for the entire careers.
Which is not true. They want more.
They were highly eight people. They are the anomaly.
(13:55):
Exactly like that's the issue, right?
They're like because the desire like what we have to have three
or four other jobs like that shows you like the industry has
gone nowhere. Like the bigger like issue where
like you're celebrating angry young men and these two guys.
But the big thing is finally what came out of this is that
Amitabh Bachchan became a star. You know, like and it would like
you'll be more star actors became stars.
(14:17):
It writers did not become a big thing.
It ended with them. Which is, you know, which is the
unfortunate situation when you have like a show in which 15
talking heads exist in all of them serve just one purpose,
which is to synthesis of Salim and Javed everybody, which I'm
getting increasingly tired of, right, because it a, there's no
drama then and B comes across assomething that, you know, it's
(14:39):
like a pat on the back situationand you.
Exactly. It's part of the back and it's
operating in a vacuum, right? Like if you're making a doctor
24 about these two, you're not making in 1985, right?
It's not like doteen saliva inkobreakup where you're making it
40. You have to talk about what
writers are facing today. You do.
And this is this. I mean, we saw this problem with
the recent s s Rajamouli thing. You know where it was similar in
(15:04):
the sense that there are 15 people talking about how great s
s Rajamouli is and Junior NTR mentions that.
Oh, but he's also a bit of a dictator, and nobody kind of
investigates that at all. Yeah, and there is one other
moment where like they try to investigate, like, you know, the
cost of some in his movies, but he gives he gives some tone deaf
reply and then they move. On from it.
He gives a terrible reply to that.
(15:26):
Yeah. He's like, those people don't
know what they're talking about.They don't understand drama,
they don't understand movies. I just saw life you get.
Something if you like and why he's saying that I'm just like,
this is next level like privilege right now.
To see all of that and then, youknow, did the Wiref people made
a documentary which was just, itwas a million times worse than
this, you know? People should say that it should
(15:48):
have been called Wiref presents the romantic.
Yeah, yeah, because it's like itwas like an orientation.
My joke was a little orientationfilm that you showed the Wiref
employee. Like this is what we believe.
This is what you have to like. This is the Kool-aid.
Also, the fun thing about that, our Arab documentary was
essentially Aditya Chopra revealing himself to the world
for the first time, only to kindof erase the legacy of his own
(16:12):
father, which was insane. So a bit actual at least.
How many Hadagni Bongiere Faranatar is coming on screen
and being like, listen, Javed ruined the family name.
But I was here to say, but you know, everything's possible, but
this one thought it's like just a little weird, man.
Like so we've spoken about like,you know, all the missed
(16:33):
opportunities and stuff and thisthe gentle kind of superficial
nature of it. I was also kind of dismayed by
just how an ambitious documentary film making is in
our country. So we talk about like whatever,
you know, like insert random sort of it are three type movie
that we do, but we don't often speak about documentaries.
(16:55):
And the problem with documentaryfilm making of this kind is it's
it's indistinguishable from likea film companion interview.
And some film companion interviews are more insightful
because who can't take a leave? Yeah, sure.
It's like a collection of film companion interviews.
So I won't even see that. It's collection of pink Willa
interviews that isn't kind of stitched together and said key
(17:16):
the documentary, it's not right.Yeah.
We aren't seeing these people. The the most obvious thing to do
when you're coming up with selling Java documentary on
paper, the first idea that I would have, and I'm sure a
million other people would have,is put them in a room together,
switch the camera on and let's see what happens.
I wanted to talk about us waiting.
How is a documentary of our two people who worked together and
(17:37):
fell apart brings them together in the last 120 seconds for a
portrait shoot and never actually places any mics in that
room? What is wrong with the people
who made this? It's very, very strange because
it's so obvious that Salim Khan has resentments, and it's so
obvious that Javed Akhtar has guilt, right?
Because Javed Akhtar was the onewho did the breaking up, and
(18:00):
Salim Khan's career suffered while Javed Akhtar thrived.
You have to put them in the room, in the neck. 1st 10
minutes of this docu series. I need to see that scene.
I need to see them interact. I need to see them.
They have to talk about 10 movies together.
You know, like when say yes once, say there's a comment
about Sholia Zanji, I want to see the other react.
What he says. Yeah.
Then it's inside. Yeah, you have to let them talk.
(18:22):
You have to let them drive the narrative.
Yeah, you have to expose them for what they're concealing.
But University of the Ironing table, yeah.
It's so interesting to watch twopeople in a room and you can
sense the friction between them,but you can sense the bond.
You can sense the memories that they share.
You can you everything is so obvious right when when people
(18:43):
what they choose to reveal, whatthey choose not to reveal how
they kind of address certain situations, the words that they
choose the faces. Exactly because when someone
will make a live like how is scriptman many year Mikata like
you will see some reaction on the other guy like you.
That is the entire forget missedopportunity we're talking about.
This is the biggest things they have been.
Lacking. But that also being said, like
(19:05):
I'm sure they thought about it. So there is It's ever
interesting to kind of wonder why it didn't happen like they
do. Yeah, the documentary on this
documentary about why they couldnot put them in their room
together and. Think something that's more
interesting. That is the bigger.
Issue in the game. I'm sure everybody must have
wanted this to happen, but one of them but like.
Who blocked it, where it got halted?
(19:28):
What were the thoughts? I want to be in that room, you
know, like Zoe and discussing it.
Salman like, but like Papa, that's the real thing.
The thing? But no one shows.
Very strange because Arbas Khan himself has a talk show and he
has interviewed both Javed Akhtar and Salim Khan
separately. It's almost like they live in
(19:53):
two separate contents. These females, you can't get
them together. Like they're literally in the
same city. They're in the same city,
they're very close to each otherand they keep saying doors are
always open. Children were always meeting
this that life didn't change much.
But they are clearly never meeting.
Yeah, they obviously don't want to sit together and hash it out
because that's the thing, right?Because they're selling us like
(20:16):
insightful like never before seen.
We'll see these two people, but it's not actually that.
And yeah, I'm sure people will kind of catch on to it, like.
The office is called Angry Man and is making viewers angry
about You're not giving, Yeah. It's very sad.
It's very sad to see like a missed opportunity like because
it could have been so much more interesting without really much
(20:38):
of A. Imagine like if you like watch
the Last Dance and Michael Don was like, I won't show you any
of the footage. I've been high for 20 years and
then he is like cut like what? Why did he make?
It, it needs to be, you need to push boundaries a little bit
more in terms of how to kind of document reality, right?
Because I don't know if you remember that Mike Tyson
documentary, which was the entire documentary was Mike
(21:00):
Tyson and nobody else looking into a camera and literally
confessed his deepest secrets directly to your face.
Even that can be dramatic, right?
You don't need 15 people, just need one person being honest.
But he is, you know, So it's me you have to rely on like.
Being at least being willing to be honest, right?
Like is everyone feels distant. It's almost a point of like
(21:21):
about our like beloved uncle or dad or whatever it is to us and
we will stop. It's very cagey and it's very
like superficial and it's very like.
I don't need Salman making, you know, observations about when he
was like 1518 years old thinkingI want to be hear it from them.
And yeah, but it's all like, so we met one day and like, we
(21:43):
decided let's just give it a shot.
And we just followed the formula.
And then one day we decided to end it.
And then we're like, huh, OK. OK, like what is this?
We keep your article. Good hearts.
I guess. OK then that's all for this
episode of the Dontech. You can follow us on Facebook,
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(22:06):
Please give us a rating and a review episode and we will see
you next week. Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Beckham. To the log take this week we're
discussing the new Amazon primitive docu series Angry
Young Men, which is about the serene Javed partnership, what I
went through, what the highs andthe lows and how they fell apart
and stuff like that. It's our first docu series in a
while, in a few years, yeah. What do you make of Withdraw?
Do you feel like it's adds to your knowledge about what you
(00:37):
knew about them? Absolutely not, but that could
also be because, you know, my work requires me to do like.
Already read about it but like you would still imagine that if
you have access to like literally everyone, you would
unearth something. New I mean, see a show like this
is anyway going to aim at, you know, fans, people who are
(00:57):
already familiar with these two,you know, to a degree.
And I think if you're familiar with with them and their work,
then the information that the show offers is something that
you know you you'll probably already know.
It's not it's not really introducing people.
I mean, it is introducing peopleto them.
But then I don't know if anybodyI.
Don't want to be. I was actually like, I was going
(01:19):
to get to that at some point, but I guess kicking off at that
is like this is basically for a very like select audience.
I didn't it was like 2 generations of ours in some way
because like who even like people who are born after a
certain and have probably have no idea who these people are.
Probably, which is what is confusing, right?
So who are you kind of making this show for?
Is it like a is it, is it for the audience that already knows
(01:43):
them and and their work and their stories?
Because then it's not really giving you much or is it for
people who have no idea? To them, all of this is new, but
then would they even be interested, you know?
And no, even if let's say, you know, like, sure, let's say put
myself in a place that I'm I don't know these people are, but
I'm interested to, you know, learn about these people who
already like change Bollywood inthis era.
(02:04):
It it is not made in a fashion that it would make a lot of
sense to me, right. Like you haven't actually seen
some of their work. The way like the episode, first
episode throws you into it and like just starts like jumping
into stuff. Like it doesn't even set the
stage of why where Bollywood wasand how they change it was.
It's almost like throw away lines.
Like, yeah, we were making 500 movies about, like, people going
(02:24):
on holidays and movies, and thensuddenly I did something
different. Like that doesn't really set the
stage. Yeah, I suppose it doesn't
really give you much context about what was happening or why
they were so. Yeah, because I remember that
Karanju overcomed and says that,you know, it was like all fluff
before this. But then that's also not
entirely true because, you know,it's like the the Indian film
(02:47):
industry has been, you know, it's like 100 years old and
we've had like multiple waves. So I got to skip Bansal Pele.
The mainstream was doing one something doesn't really define
what the entire country was. So anyway, there's one of those
things where, you know, every kind of scene is designed to
just be like nothing greater hasever happened on the planet than
(03:08):
these two, which I found. After the point, because he's
like that you need like a different angle on it, right?
Which like, I think Anju Rajabali is probably the only
person who gets to do that. Like in possibly in episode 3
where he starts pointing out that, you know, like, hello,
they weren't actually the greatest that female characters
had problems and this was a problem.
But then we scale like 10 seconds, but it's like bring in
some family member and some Betty or Beta and they're like
(03:30):
then it's upgrade. I'm like, who do you think I
want to trust the the daughter or some random outsider?
Yeah, it's just tokenism, right?It's like we can't.
Like it's in fact it's it reeks or something that Zoya Akhtar
and Farhan Akhtar themselves might have just come up with
that we need like a voice to counter everything that's
already entirely. Possible because like the kids
(03:50):
are producing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it reeks. It's just one of those things
that hard Dal Nikki just for thesake of it.
We have that one throwaway line,which is fully possible that,
you know, you might just miss itbecause it's so like tiny and so
buried in like a different story.
But then when you immediately counter it with like Rima Gagti
defending and literally having adifficult time defending it
(04:10):
because she can't really find the correct words to be like,
haha, but you know, it's fine. Context.
How was time message which is a good?
Offense because like, there wereenough people just, you know,
offering something. Different at that time itself.
Yeah, right. So exactly so this the entire
series, it's very unfortunate that they chose to kind of make
it in this fashion because firstly, you're it comes across
(04:34):
as like a, you know, just like avanity thing that.
Like a whole movie, almost like it's imagined, like Faridabad
Pass one day, like Karpe, like, you know, like Zoya and Varan
and Salman need something to play them.
Like, yeah, let's play our tribute to our parents.
I just like, it's not really incisive, right?
You don't really get to understand who these people were
beyond just like, you know, we had a difficult, we had
(04:55):
difficult beginnings and then just we stumbled into this and
all that. You know, it's not like
psychologically penetrate. Nick Arango.
Yeah. And.
The one thing that you would want to eventually parrot it is
like, you know why they walk their separate ways?
Like you thought like in the end, the second episode like
that I'm like, oh great, fine, maybe episode dig into it.
Now the first half of the third episode is like, forget about
(05:16):
the clear. Fact.
Forget that they laid that. Yeah, yeah, I think.
How we get to it like these, they don't even return to that
point. And when they return to it,
they're like, well, these guys never really talk about it.
And so we will also not try to like push it the button.
Too much, yeah, which is the weirdest thing which I baffles
me that by this thing even exists.
Right, because the entire part of a documentary should be that
(05:37):
press the thing that people are on, you talk about, you have to
get someone to talk about it, but you just like, let's just
leave it at that. So it's one thing to watch this
three episode thing and then wonder why in like Deep in
episode 3 is the first time someone actually talks about Oh
yeah, split happened. But then it's a whole different
thing all together to realize isthat the entire world or people
(05:59):
you know who would be familiar with this stuff have known about
the split for like, 50 years. Yeah.
So people who tune into this already know that these people
split. And it was, if nothing else,
that's the only thing they know about these people, right?
They were like this dream team, that split.
It's like the Mahesh Leander thing, right?
Even if you don't want to watch tennis, you know that it.
(06:20):
Was very acrimonious. Exactly.
So in fact, he should have opened with like, listen, you
guys split why like? Why does the team which deliver
like 20 movies which are great great of the box of a split like
that should be our opening 3 minutes.
And The thing is that over the years, both of them have spoken
extensively about what happened,right?
(06:43):
Not to say that they provided any insight of what happened,
but they've spoken about it extensively.
Now the problem is that since somuch of their comments are in
the public domain, it's your responsibility when you're
making a documentary film to provide something beyond what
already exists right now. The issue is they simply repeat
themselves in the show and what they say is so obviously Juta
(07:05):
like it's like it reeks of also you don't want to talk about it
then why? It's like old people who I just
wonder like, you know, like justremember the good times.
And like, yeah, that doesn't make for a good documentary and
great for your personal lives, but that's not making me like
this. Me turns into a good watch.
Same thing. The other problem and I think
one of the reasons why it feels like this, the entire show is
(07:27):
that the people being interviewed did not give much
time. I don't know how long they shot
this for maybe many years because we have like COVID
footage, masks and all. So that's kind of telling.
Then in one thing, one scene, I think Salman Khan's family is
like having lunch or something. And like I noticed that Arbaaz
Khan's new wife is in that scene, which has to be like this
(07:50):
year, you know? So that's like two years at
least, right? Is your filming period?
Yeah, But USME, the interviews, like Salman Khan appears once.
He must have probably sat for like 15 minutes.
Yeah, right. Farhan appears maybe in two
different settings, I'm not sure.
But not more than two. Even Javed Akhtar and Salim Khan
not more than two or three different interviews.
(08:12):
Possible like I think 4. I think with Javed I could.
Maximum, Yeah, but that's not enough, right?
If you have access to all these people and some some of them
don't really talk much anymore, which is Salman Khan, then you
brought them, right? You get someone who can prod
them you. And if you sense like there are
so many moments where Java doctor particularly just pauses
(08:33):
and tears up at some memory. But this shows like how hard he
get he get done and then moves on to something else
immediately. They're like, OK, so you had a
moment there rare and you didn'tlike do anything with it and you
just moved on. Like I can get more insight out
of like Barkhart, that's interview of this guy than the
show produced by his own children.
So that should be telling. Yeah.
It is like, I mean very rare, like inside, you know, like when
(08:54):
in the first episode, they're not like I think I mean the
second one, there's the second one, sorry, where like they're
all talking about, you know, howtheir movies and the scripts
were like tapping into like, youknow, like whatever the rage of
the social particular shows. And it's get teen saying about,
which is like probably the one of the good edits, like Java
comes in and he's like, we weren't thinking about any of
that. And it's like that's how I love
like that's what you want. You know, like these guys just
like they were just there because these are the kind of
(09:16):
people they were. But yeah, I think the real stuff
where you actually like dig intolike why they did something like
just like mostly just either, asyou said, brush stalls or not
even like explode. Yeah.
I mean, now that they've the show has introduced this angle
itself and it has said that, oh,but it wasn't by design.
It was just like they were just products of that period.
And perhaps that is why those ideas were in their movies.
(09:39):
Then you need to have like some sort of scholar or someone
knowledgeable pop in and be like, here's what you know.
At that time, yeah. And which happens once they
there is some JNU person, Yeah, if I'm not wrong.
But then but it's just one of those talking points like you
have a bath to Karnithi because counter like we this was
happening in the country, emergency was happening.
(10:00):
We need to address this point. But then they just move on from
it, which is like. Reflective of like The funny
thing like is of their like their own movies is that you
give like 3 minutes of your whatever.
I'm guessing total 1120 minute docu cities to like the actual
like experts can talk about it and then 105 minutes are given
to like family members, which isreflective of basically like
(10:22):
them making these, you know, like calling like oh be hard
movies that strong women, but they had no.
Role to play. They had like professions, which
is sure. But then they were like
unnecessary to the plot. It is like a rolled over.
What's it's baffling to be like someone like someone who is
included or someone who's just tangentially, like, interested
in all this, could watch this and just walk away thinking
(10:43):
that, you know, Satyajit Ray didn't exist.
Yeah, 20 years, 25 years before these two.
Yeah, exactly. I noticed, you know, like that
when they like talk in that third episode when they're
mentioning that shark all thing,I'm like, how are you not
mentioning a single Hollywood movie that this is like Rev
Dostrom right now. But they do address that one
again. They just address it once.
Oh, we just copied it with the because we thought that we have
(11:06):
like previous episode. Like previous episode.
Like 40 minutes earlier, like the distance is deliberate.
They warned the audience to not like, have that memory when
they're showing. And I'm like, either fooled Dr.
Noah Jims. One word.
What? What?
Are you fooling me right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the weird thing is, and I'm sure like for a lot of Indian
people, they watch Sholay beforethey watch all the 15 movies
(11:27):
that they've copied, right, to make Sholay, which is what
happened with me. I watched Sholay and like
everybody else sound like, wow, fun movie, you know?
And then when you grow up, you watch all the other, like Once
Upon a Time in the West and stuff.
You're like, Oh my God. So there are entire scenes that
you've got me frame to frame in this whole way.
I mean, it doesn't really impactyour memory of shoulder because
(11:48):
that's attached to 15 different things.
But then it does kind of recontextualize the film itself,
right? Yeah, Which they mentioned only
in passing. And then they brush it off
almost like a little arrogantly.I was like, bro, it's like.
Even then, like that was the first moment I think, in that
obviously where I was like, oh, like the most things they've
grown up on, right? They're like 9A's Kabura
(12:09):
neighbours there. We have like I admit my mistake,
we made an error, but this is the one thing they were like 999
like they hadn't seen. Which just goes to show, right,
because sure, in 2024, a lot more people are talking about
women's agency, especially in Hindi cinema, but nobody's
really talking about plagiarism,right?
(12:30):
Yeah. So I'm guessing like in 2034,
when plagiarism it becomes more of an issue, they might look
back and be like, Oh yeah, but that was a mistake.
I think I want someone in 20 years to open up this docu
series and then comment on everystar who comes in and praises
writers and is the same guy responsible for not having
scripts in his own things like that.
Lack of self-awareness is the most annoying thing.
(12:51):
I could not stand armor and the thick and Karan George showing
up and this. Show end in this very bizarre
fashion where they have like, I don't sound mean, but like
nobody's right. And they pop up and they're like
aspiring writer. I'm like OK.
Yeah, writer. Yeah, so I understand what
(13:12):
you're going for, but so this isnot the place.
The show wasn't leading up to this, no.
Did you build up to this to haveyour cake?
Because the entire like that given to other people, you let
them have a field like I love these guys.
You would know. But listen man, like so you have
(13:35):
chosen to end your show with people were struggling in the
industry and complaining about bears on air.
But that would make sense if it comes at the tail end of a three
episode thing in which the protagonist Salim and Javed were
also underpaid and undervalued for the entire careers.
Which is not true. They want more.
They were highly eight people. They are the anomaly.
(13:55):
Exactly like that's the issue, right?
They're like because the desire like what we have to have three
or four other jobs like that shows you like the industry has
gone nowhere. Like the bigger like issue where
like you're celebrating angry young men and these two guys.
But the big thing is finally what came out of this is that
Amitabh Bachchan became a star. You know, like and it would like
you'll be more star actors became stars.
(14:17):
It writers did not become a big thing.
It ended with them. Which is, you know, which is the
unfortunate situation when you have like a show in which 15
talking heads exist in all of them serve just one purpose,
which is to synthesis of Salim and Javed everybody, which I'm
getting increasingly tired of, right, because it a, there's no
drama then and B comes across assomething that, you know, it's
(14:39):
like a pat on the back situationand you.
Exactly. It's part of the back and it's
operating in a vacuum, right? Like if you're making a doctor
24 about these two, you're not making in 1985, right?
It's not like doteen saliva inkobreakup where you're making it
40. You have to talk about what
writers are facing today. You do.
And this is this. I mean, we saw this problem with
the recent s s Rajamouli thing. You know where it was similar in
(15:04):
the sense that there are 15 people talking about how great s
s Rajamouli is and Junior NTR mentions that.
Oh, but he's also a bit of a dictator, and nobody kind of
investigates that at all. Yeah, and there is one other
moment where like they try to investigate, like, you know, the
cost of some in his movies, but he gives he gives some tone deaf
reply and then they move. On from it.
He gives a terrible reply to that.
(15:26):
Yeah. He's like, those people don't
know what they're talking about.They don't understand drama,
they don't understand movies. I just saw life you get.
Something if you like and why he's saying that I'm just like,
this is next level like privilege right now.
To see all of that and then, youknow, did the Wiref people made
a documentary which was just, itwas a million times worse than
this, you know? People should say that it should
(15:48):
have been called Wiref presents the romantic.
Yeah, yeah, because it's like itwas like an orientation.
My joke was a little orientationfilm that you showed the Wiref
employee. Like this is what we believe.
This is what you have to like. This is the Kool-aid.
Also, the fun thing about that, our Arab documentary was
essentially Aditya Chopra revealing himself to the world
for the first time, only to kindof erase the legacy of his own
(16:12):
father, which was insane. So a bit actual at least.
How many Hadagni Bongiere Faranatar is coming on screen
and being like, listen, Javed ruined the family name.
But I was here to say, but you know, everything's possible, but
this one thought it's like just a little weird, man.
Like so we've spoken about like,you know, all the missed
(16:33):
opportunities and stuff and thisthe gentle kind of superficial
nature of it. I was also kind of dismayed by
just how an ambitious documentary film making is in
our country. So we talk about like whatever,
you know, like insert random sort of it are three type movie
that we do, but we don't often speak about documentaries.
(16:55):
And the problem with documentaryfilm making of this kind is it's
it's indistinguishable from likea film companion interview.
And some film companion interviews are more insightful
because who can't take a leave? Yeah, sure.
It's like a collection of film companion interviews.
So I won't even see that. It's collection of pink Willa
interviews that isn't kind of stitched together and said key
(17:16):
the documentary, it's not right.Yeah.
We aren't seeing these people. The the most obvious thing to do
when you're coming up with selling Java documentary on
paper, the first idea that I would have, and I'm sure a
million other people would have,is put them in a room together,
switch the camera on and let's see what happens.
I wanted to talk about us waiting.
How is a documentary of our two people who worked together and
(17:37):
fell apart brings them together in the last 120 seconds for a
portrait shoot and never actually places any mics in that
room? What is wrong with the people
who made this? It's very, very strange because
it's so obvious that Salim Khan has resentments, and it's so
obvious that Javed Akhtar has guilt, right?
Because Javed Akhtar was the onewho did the breaking up, and
(18:00):
Salim Khan's career suffered while Javed Akhtar thrived.
You have to put them in the room, in the neck. 1st 10
minutes of this docu series. I need to see that scene.
I need to see them interact. I need to see them.
They have to talk about 10 movies together.
You know, like when say yes once, say there's a comment
about Sholia Zanji, I want to see the other react.
What he says. Yeah.
Then it's inside. Yeah, you have to let them talk.
(18:22):
You have to let them drive the narrative.
Yeah, you have to expose them for what they're concealing.
But University of the Ironing table, yeah.
It's so interesting to watch twopeople in a room and you can
sense the friction between them,but you can sense the bond.
You can sense the memories that they share.
You can you everything is so obvious right when when people
(18:43):
what they choose to reveal, whatthey choose not to reveal how
they kind of address certain situations, the words that they
choose the faces. Exactly because when someone
will make a live like how is scriptman many year Mikata like
you will see some reaction on the other guy like you.
That is the entire forget missedopportunity we're talking about.
This is the biggest things they have been.
Lacking. But that also being said, like
(19:05):
I'm sure they thought about it. So there is It's ever
interesting to kind of wonder why it didn't happen like they
do. Yeah, the documentary on this
documentary about why they couldnot put them in their room
together and. Think something that's more
interesting. That is the bigger.
Issue in the game. I'm sure everybody must have
wanted this to happen, but one of them but like.
Who blocked it, where it got halted?
(19:28):
What were the thoughts? I want to be in that room, you
know, like Zoe and discussing it.
Salman like, but like Papa, that's the real thing.
The thing? But no one shows.
Very strange because Arbas Khan himself has a talk show and he
has interviewed both Javed Akhtar and Salim Khan
separately. It's almost like they live in
(19:53):
two separate contents. These females, you can't get
them together. Like they're literally in the
same city. They're in the same city,
they're very close to each otherand they keep saying doors are
always open. Children were always meeting
this that life didn't change much.
But they are clearly never meeting.
Yeah, they obviously don't want to sit together and hash it out
because that's the thing, right?Because they're selling us like
(20:16):
insightful like never before seen.
We'll see these two people, but it's not actually that.
And yeah, I'm sure people will kind of catch on to it, like.
The office is called Angry Man and is making viewers angry
about You're not giving, Yeah. It's very sad.
It's very sad to see like a missed opportunity like because
it could have been so much more interesting without really much
(20:38):
of A. Imagine like if you like watch
the Last Dance and Michael Don was like, I won't show you any
of the footage. I've been high for 20 years and
then he is like cut like what? Why did he make?
It, it needs to be, you need to push boundaries a little bit
more in terms of how to kind of document reality, right?
Because I don't know if you remember that Mike Tyson
documentary, which was the entire documentary was Mike
(21:00):
Tyson and nobody else looking into a camera and literally
confessed his deepest secrets directly to your face.
Even that can be dramatic, right?
You don't need 15 people, just need one person being honest.
But he is, you know, So it's me you have to rely on like.
Being at least being willing to be honest, right?
Like is everyone feels distant. It's almost a point of like
(21:21):
about our like beloved uncle or dad or whatever it is to us and
we will stop. It's very cagey and it's very
like superficial and it's very like.
I don't need Salman making, you know, observations about when he
was like 1518 years old thinkingI want to be hear it from them.
And yeah, but it's all like, so we met one day and like, we
(21:43):
decided let's just give it a shot.
And we just followed the formula.
And then one day we decided to end it.
And then we're like, huh, OK. OK, like what is this?
We keep your article. Good hearts.
I guess. OK then that's all for this
episode of the Dontech. You can follow us on Facebook,
YouTube, Instagram and Threads at the Logtech pod.
You can direct to us at the Dontech pod@gmail.com.
(22:06):
Please give us a rating and a review episode and we will see
you next week. Thanks for listening.
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