November 13, 2025 • 13 mins
We explore trust as a biological state, not just a feeling, showing how oxytocin lowers stress and unlocks better thinking while empathy rebuilds alignment. We end with a simple daily practice to boost safety, clarity, and connection through microconnections.
• oxytocin as an off switch for anxiety
• cortisol downregulation and prefrontal clarity
• microconnections that trigger safety signals
• amygdala activation when trust breaks
• cognitive narrowing under threat
• empathy creating neural resonance
• social flow via oxytocin and serotonin
• health benefits including HRV and immunity
• dopamine and endorphins rewarding compassion
• daily practice of specific appreciation
Commit to offer just one genuine specific expression of appreciation or empathy each day
This podcast is created by Ai for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute professional medical or health advice. Please talk to your healthcare team for medical advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome back to the deep dive.
Today we're digging intosomething really core to well,
being human, trust.
We tend to think of it as, youknow, emotional, maybe
psychological, something fragileyou build up over time.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Right.
Abstract.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Exactly.
But what if trust isn't just afeeling?
What if it has like an actualchemical signature in our
bodies?
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Aaron Powell That's precisely the angle our sources
take today.
We've got some amazing researchfrom neurobiology, relationship
science.
Okay.
And it really forces us to seetrust differently.
Not as some vague idea, but as auh specific biological state,
something happening in yournervous system.
SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
A biological state, I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Yeah.
So our mission really for thisdeep dive is to get past the
feeling of trust and look at theactual molecules, the chemistry
that signals safety, connection,how your body literally writes
the story of whether you feelconnected or not.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Aaron Powell That makes sense.
Because if we know themechanism, maybe we can, I don't
know, work with it moreintentionally.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
That's the hope.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Okay, so let's unpack that.
If there's one key molecule,like the linchpin for feeling
safe and connected, where do westart?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
We absolutely have to start with oxytocin.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Ah, the bonding hormone.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Aaron Powell That's a famous name, yeah.
But for this discussion, what'sreally critical is its role as
like the biological off-switchfor anxiety.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Off switch for anxiety.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Its job isn't just vaguely making us feel good or
connected.
Its immediate primary functionis to tell the body, hey, you
can stand down now.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Right.
So it's not just a bonusfeel-good chemical.
It's more like a safety protocolkicking in.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Exactly.
A security protocol.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Aaron Powell, How does it actually do that
physically?
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Aaron Powell Well, it targets the stress axis
directly.
As soon as oxytocin shows up, itsuppresses the release of
cortisol.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
The main stress hormone.
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
The main one, yeah.
And it just calms that wholeunderlying fight or flight
system.
When your brain detectsoxytocin, the nervous system
relaxes because basically thethreat detector has been
switched off.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Aaron Powell So the state of trust is the state of
low stress hormones.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Fundamentally, yes.
That's the biochemical reality.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
Aaron Powell Okay.
And if the stress hormones aredown, what's the upside
cognitively?
Does it help us think better?
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
Aaron Ross Powell Oh, significantly.
Look, when cortisol is high, allyour body's resources are
diverted to survival, right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Right.
Run or fight.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
Exactly.
But when oxytocin is present,those resources can flow back to
the prefrontal cortex.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Aaron Powell That's the uh executive function part,
logic, decisions.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Precisely.
Reasoning, self-control,emotional regulation.
So essentially, trust makes yousmarter.
No, really.
It shifts you from that reactiveemotional space into more
considered complex thinking.
Think about any situation whereyou need creativity or
compromise or planning.
You actually need oxytocinflowing to access your best
(02:50):
cognitive self.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Aaron Powell That reframes trust completely.
It's not just about feelingcomfortable, it's like a
prerequisite for highperformance.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
It really is.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
And the sources kept mentioning that this chemical
kick isn't just for, you know,huge emotional moments, like
weddings or something.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Aaron Powell No, not at all.
Actually, the research point'ssomewhere much more mundane but
powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
It points to what the researchers call
microconnections.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Aaron Powell Microconnections.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Tiny, brief, but frequent positive interactions.
They add up fast.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Aaron Powell Like what kind of things?
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
Things like um holding eye contact for a beat
longer when someone's talking,even on a video call.
Or offering a genuinecompliment, not sarcasm, just
hey, nice job.
Shared laughter over somethingsmall, even just nodding
attentively while someonespeaks.
Those are the triggers.
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
Aaron Powell Wow.
So we're kind of constantlyadjusting each other's
biochemistry without evenrealizing it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
All the time, co-creating it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
So sending a quick, kind text, or just like really
listening to my partner for 30seconds.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
That's not just being nice.
I'm actually potentially givingtheir system a little hit of
oxytocin.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
You are.
And likely your own system too,through the feedback loop.
It's the body's internal signalsaying, you're safe here,
connection is happening.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
The accessibility of that is kind of amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
It really is.
You can nudge your ownneurochemistry and someone
else's towards safety multipletimes an hour just by being
present and attentive.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
But that also means it must be incredibly fragile.
If oxytocin means safety, whathappens when that safety gets
yanked away?
Let's talk about the flip side,the biological cost when trust
is broken.
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
Right.
And it flips fast.
When trust is violated or evenjust seriously challenged, think
disrespect, being dismissed,feeling betrayed.
The chemistry reverses almostinstantly.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
How?
What takes over?
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
The brain's core threat systems jump online and
they basically bypass therational brain.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
Aaron Powell Which parts are we talking about?
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
The amygdala, primarily.
That's the brain's smokedetector, its alarm center.
And it treats threats, whetherit's a physical danger or say
serious social rejection isequally urgent.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Aaron Powell Okay, so feeling betrayed feels like a
physical threat to the brain.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
Aaron Powell Pretty much, yeah.
So cortisol levels shoot up,adrenaline gets released, heart
rate climbs, muscles tense.
Your whole system shifts fromsafe and connect mode into
survival mode.
You're locked into a defensivepattern.
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Aaron Powell And this is where the sources got
really interesting for me.
Because it's not just aboutfeeling bad, right?
It actually changes what we canperceive.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
It absolutely does.
There's a real cognitive costwhen the amygdala is running the
show like that.
Oh so the research shows thatwhen someone feels unsafe, their
uh their perceptual fieldnarrows drastically.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Fair hose, you mean like a tunnel vision?
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
In a way, yes.
We literally see lesspossibility, less nuance.
Think about um a tensenegotiation at work.
Oh yeah.
If one person feels underminedor betrayed, they aren't just
being stubborn.
Their brain is physicallyblocking them from seeing
potential win-win outcomesbecause it's biologically wired
for defense.
Protect myself, guard againstmore harm.
(05:54):
That's the only priority.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Wow, that's a huge reframing.
So if you're in a conflict andyou haven't rebuilt that basic
chemical safety, you'rebasically asking someone who's
in a defensive, impaired stateto solve a complex social
problem.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
You got it.
You're seeing a physiologicalstate literally override
psychological capacity.
Until those cortisol levels dropand the prefrontal cortex can
get back online, communicationstays reactive, short-sighted,
often totally stuck.
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
That lack of trust makes people rigid.
SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
Exactly.
Rigidity is a survival tactic, aprotective structure.
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
Aaron Powell Okay, so if that defensive state is
the enemy of problem solving,how do we consciously shift
someone or maybe ourselves backtowards safety?
This seems to lead us straightto empathy.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
Empathy is the key tool.
It's the active practice ofbuilding trust back
biochemically.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
How does it function biologically?
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Its function is to create alignment.
When you genuinely try tounderstand and uh reflect
someone else's emotional state,critically you're not trying to
fix it, just see it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Just acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Right.
Their brain gets this powerfulsignal, okay, no threat here,
I'm being seen.
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
And what's happening neurologically when that
happens?
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
It creates something researchers call neural
synchronization or resonance.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Resonance, okay.
unknown (07:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
When two people are locked in, really listening
empathetically, you can actuallysee on brain scans their neural
activity starting to mirror eachother.
Their brains literally light upin rhythm.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Whoa.
So you're moving from twoseparate, potentially defensive
systems.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Into a single, unified, aligned biostate.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
That image, two minds lighting up together is
really powerful.
That state must feel totallydifferent.
What's the chemistry behind thatkind of effortless alignment?
Is it just more oxytocin?
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
Oxytocin is crucial for the safety part, definitely.
But this deeper alignment state,which some call social flow,
seems to need something elsetoo.
Serotonin.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Serotonin.
Okay, mood stabilizer, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Exactly.
It's essential for stabilizingmood, creating that sense of
well-being, and really enhancingfeelings of belonging, feeling
significant within the group.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
So oxytocin is like, I'm safe with you, but serotonin
adds, and I feel good and valuedbeing part of this interaction.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
You've got it.
You need both for that reallysmooth, sustained cooperation.
Oxytocin lowers the defenses.
Serotonin brings the stabilityand the sense of shared purpose.
That's when social flow reallykicks in.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
How would someone know if they're in that state?
What does social flow feel like?
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
Well, it's usually marked by a few things.
Communication feels almosteffortless, right?
You just get what the otherperson means, even if they don't
say it perfectly.
Time can feel a bit weird,sometimes slowing down,
sometimes speeding up.
And cooperation just feelsnatural, easy, intrinsically
motivating.
It's really the peak state ofhuman interaction where you get
(08:45):
both deep connection and highproductivity.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Aaron Powell, which really drives home that empathy
isn't just some soft skill orpassive feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (08:52):
Not at all.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
It's an active mechanism.
We're actually building theneural pathways for connection
every time we do it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Aaron Powell Absolutely.
Every single act of compassion,every genuine attempt to
understand another person isphysically rewiring the neural
circuits for calmness andunderstanding.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
So the more you practice.
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
The stronger and more automatic those pathways
become.
Trust really is built moleculeby molecule, moment by moment.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Aaron Powell Which leads us to the bigger picture,
the sort of widespread payoff.
This isn't just about bettermeetings or happier home lives,
is it?
This core chemistry seems toripple out into our overall
health.
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Aaron Powell It absolutely does.
And it's really fascinating hereis how deeply our relational
health is tied to our physicalhealth.
How so?
Well, emotional openness, thatability to create and recede
safety, it stabilizes the wholenervous system.
And that stability doesn't justfeel good, it directly boosts
immune function.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
How does it boost immunity?
SPEAKER_00 (09:47):
Mainly by lowering the chronic inflammation that
comes with persistently highcortisol levels.
Less stress hormone bathing yoursystem means your immune cells
can function better.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Okay, that's huge.
And the source is alsospecifically mentioned the
heart, right?
There was a metric.
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
Yes.
Heart rate variability or HRV.
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
Right.
HRV.
What is that exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
In simple terms, it's a measure of the tiny
variations in time between eachof your heartbeats.
High HRV means your nervoussystem is adaptable, resilient.
Your heart and brain arecommunicating well, letting your
body respond flexibly to stress.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
And high trust environments improve that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
Yes, consistently.
A stable, safe, high trustenvironment biologically
strengthens that heart-brainconnection, making you
physically more resilient, lesssusceptible to stress-related
problems.
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Aaron Powell So connecting authentically with
people, it's basically like along-term investment in your
cardiovascular and immunehealth.
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
That's a great way to put it.
It's a tangible health benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
And our bodies actually reward us for doing it,
don't they?
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Instantly.
That's the beauty of the design.
When we offer care or showcompassion, we activate the
brain's built-in reward system.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Which chemicals are involved there?
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
That's primarily dopamine, giving you that hit of
motivation and pleasure andendorphins, the natural mood
elevators.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
So kindness literally feels good.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
It feels good because evolution wanted it to
feel good.
Cooperation wasn't just a niceidea.
It was critical for survival.
Our internal chemistry makessure we seek out connection.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
It completely reframes why we help each other,
doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
Okay, so wrapping this part up, the work of
building or repairingrelationships isn't just like
vague psychological effort.
Not at all.
It's tangible.
It's immediate.
It's biochemical work thatchanges our physical state.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
That synthesis is really the core insight from all
this research.
Your social environment shapesyour biology, and your biology
is fundamentally driven byconnection.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
So for everyone listening, what's the big
takeaway here?
I think it's that trust isn'tthis fragile, mystical thing we
need to hoard.
It's really the chemistry offeeling calm, isn't it?
And the rhythm of understandingbetween people.
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Oh said.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
And when you choose to offer empathy, when you
really listen just to understanda line, you're literally making
biology.
You're not just expressing anice thought, you're actively
boosting your own resiliencetoo.
Based on that, the sources had areally simple practical action
step.
It was about committing to offerjust one genuine specific
(12:13):
expression of appreciation orempathy each day.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Yeah, really small things count.
SPEAKER_01 (12:18):
Right.
Could be a quick text, a fewwords to a coworker, maybe just
putting your phone down andreally listening to someone at
home.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
And the crucial part was notice how your own body
feels afterwards.
Do you feel a bit softer?
Is your breathing calmer?
Do you feel more open?
Use your own body's feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
That internal check-in is key.
And building on that, if weaccept that compassion feels
good because it triggers ourreward system, that dopamine,
those endorphins, all designedto promote cooperation, it does
raise kind of a provocativequestion, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
Go on.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Well, what if we started viewing acts of kindness
less as some kind of selflessduty we should do and more as a
really crucial proactive toolfor our own biological
self-regulation?
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Like taking care of our own nervous system by being
kind.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Exactly.
Could reframing it that way asbiological maintenance almost
fundamentally shift how much weprioritize connection and
empathy in the rush of dailylife?
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
That's definitely something to think about.
Treating kindness not just asvirtue, but as vital biological
practice.
A really powerful thought to endon.
Welcome back to the deep dive.
Today we're digging intosomething really core to well,
being human, trust.
We tend to think of it as, youknow, emotional, maybe
psychological, something fragileyou build up over time.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Right.
Abstract.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Exactly.
But what if trust isn't just afeeling?
What if it has like an actualchemical signature in our
bodies?
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Aaron Powell That's precisely the angle our sources
take today.
We've got some amazing researchfrom neurobiology, relationship
science.
Okay.
And it really forces us to seetrust differently.
Not as some vague idea, but as auh specific biological state,
something happening in yournervous system.
SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
A biological state, I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Yeah.
So our mission really for thisdeep dive is to get past the
feeling of trust and look at theactual molecules, the chemistry
that signals safety, connection,how your body literally writes
the story of whether you feelconnected or not.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Aaron Powell That makes sense.
Because if we know themechanism, maybe we can, I don't
know, work with it moreintentionally.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
That's the hope.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Okay, so let's unpack that.
If there's one key molecule,like the linchpin for feeling
safe and connected, where do westart?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
We absolutely have to start with oxytocin.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Ah, the bonding hormone.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Aaron Powell That's a famous name, yeah.
But for this discussion, what'sreally critical is its role as
like the biological off-switchfor anxiety.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Off switch for anxiety.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Its job isn't just vaguely making us feel good or
connected.
Its immediate primary functionis to tell the body, hey, you
can stand down now.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Right.
So it's not just a bonusfeel-good chemical.
It's more like a safety protocolkicking in.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Exactly.
A security protocol.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Aaron Powell, How does it actually do that
physically?
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Aaron Powell Well, it targets the stress axis
directly.
As soon as oxytocin shows up, itsuppresses the release of
cortisol.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
The main stress hormone.
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
The main one, yeah.
And it just calms that wholeunderlying fight or flight
system.
When your brain detectsoxytocin, the nervous system
relaxes because basically thethreat detector has been
switched off.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Aaron Powell So the state of trust is the state of
low stress hormones.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Fundamentally, yes.
That's the biochemical reality.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
Aaron Powell Okay.
And if the stress hormones aredown, what's the upside
cognitively?
Does it help us think better?
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
Aaron Ross Powell Oh, significantly.
Look, when cortisol is high, allyour body's resources are
diverted to survival, right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Right.
Run or fight.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
Exactly.
But when oxytocin is present,those resources can flow back to
the prefrontal cortex.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Aaron Powell That's the uh executive function part,
logic, decisions.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Precisely.
Reasoning, self-control,emotional regulation.
So essentially, trust makes yousmarter.
No, really.
It shifts you from that reactiveemotional space into more
considered complex thinking.
Think about any situation whereyou need creativity or
compromise or planning.
You actually need oxytocinflowing to access your best
(02:50):
cognitive self.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Aaron Powell That reframes trust completely.
It's not just about feelingcomfortable, it's like a
prerequisite for highperformance.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
It really is.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
And the sources kept mentioning that this chemical
kick isn't just for, you know,huge emotional moments, like
weddings or something.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Aaron Powell No, not at all.
Actually, the research point'ssomewhere much more mundane but
powerful.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
It points to what the researchers call
microconnections.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Aaron Powell Microconnections.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Tiny, brief, but frequent positive interactions.
They add up fast.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Aaron Powell Like what kind of things?
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
Things like um holding eye contact for a beat
longer when someone's talking,even on a video call.
Or offering a genuinecompliment, not sarcasm, just
hey, nice job.
Shared laughter over somethingsmall, even just nodding
attentively while someonespeaks.
Those are the triggers.
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
Aaron Powell Wow.
So we're kind of constantlyadjusting each other's
biochemistry without evenrealizing it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
All the time, co-creating it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
So sending a quick, kind text, or just like really
listening to my partner for 30seconds.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
That's not just being nice.
I'm actually potentially givingtheir system a little hit of
oxytocin.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
You are.
And likely your own system too,through the feedback loop.
It's the body's internal signalsaying, you're safe here,
connection is happening.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
The accessibility of that is kind of amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
It really is.
You can nudge your ownneurochemistry and someone
else's towards safety multipletimes an hour just by being
present and attentive.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
But that also means it must be incredibly fragile.
If oxytocin means safety, whathappens when that safety gets
yanked away?
Let's talk about the flip side,the biological cost when trust
is broken.
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
Right.
And it flips fast.
When trust is violated or evenjust seriously challenged, think
disrespect, being dismissed,feeling betrayed.
The chemistry reverses almostinstantly.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
How?
What takes over?
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
The brain's core threat systems jump online and
they basically bypass therational brain.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
Aaron Powell Which parts are we talking about?
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
The amygdala, primarily.
That's the brain's smokedetector, its alarm center.
And it treats threats, whetherit's a physical danger or say
serious social rejection isequally urgent.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Aaron Powell Okay, so feeling betrayed feels like a
physical threat to the brain.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
Aaron Powell Pretty much, yeah.
So cortisol levels shoot up,adrenaline gets released, heart
rate climbs, muscles tense.
Your whole system shifts fromsafe and connect mode into
survival mode.
You're locked into a defensivepattern.
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Aaron Powell And this is where the sources got
really interesting for me.
Because it's not just aboutfeeling bad, right?
It actually changes what we canperceive.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
It absolutely does.
There's a real cognitive costwhen the amygdala is running the
show like that.
Oh so the research shows thatwhen someone feels unsafe, their
uh their perceptual fieldnarrows drastically.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Fair hose, you mean like a tunnel vision?
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
In a way, yes.
We literally see lesspossibility, less nuance.
Think about um a tensenegotiation at work.
Oh yeah.
If one person feels underminedor betrayed, they aren't just
being stubborn.
Their brain is physicallyblocking them from seeing
potential win-win outcomesbecause it's biologically wired
for defense.
Protect myself, guard againstmore harm.
(05:54):
That's the only priority.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Wow, that's a huge reframing.
So if you're in a conflict andyou haven't rebuilt that basic
chemical safety, you'rebasically asking someone who's
in a defensive, impaired stateto solve a complex social
problem.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
You got it.
You're seeing a physiologicalstate literally override
psychological capacity.
Until those cortisol levels dropand the prefrontal cortex can
get back online, communicationstays reactive, short-sighted,
often totally stuck.
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
That lack of trust makes people rigid.
SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
Exactly.
Rigidity is a survival tactic, aprotective structure.
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
Aaron Powell Okay, so if that defensive state is
the enemy of problem solving,how do we consciously shift
someone or maybe ourselves backtowards safety?
This seems to lead us straightto empathy.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
Empathy is the key tool.
It's the active practice ofbuilding trust back
biochemically.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
How does it function biologically?
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Its function is to create alignment.
When you genuinely try tounderstand and uh reflect
someone else's emotional state,critically you're not trying to
fix it, just see it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Just acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Right.
Their brain gets this powerfulsignal, okay, no threat here,
I'm being seen.
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
And what's happening neurologically when that
happens?
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
It creates something researchers call neural
synchronization or resonance.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Resonance, okay.
unknown (07:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:10):
When two people are locked in, really listening
empathetically, you can actuallysee on brain scans their neural
activity starting to mirror eachother.
Their brains literally light upin rhythm.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Whoa.
So you're moving from twoseparate, potentially defensive
systems.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Into a single, unified, aligned biostate.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
That image, two minds lighting up together is
really powerful.
That state must feel totallydifferent.
What's the chemistry behind thatkind of effortless alignment?
Is it just more oxytocin?
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
Oxytocin is crucial for the safety part, definitely.
But this deeper alignment state,which some call social flow,
seems to need something elsetoo.
Serotonin.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Serotonin.
Okay, mood stabilizer, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Exactly.
It's essential for stabilizingmood, creating that sense of
well-being, and really enhancingfeelings of belonging, feeling
significant within the group.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
So oxytocin is like, I'm safe with you, but serotonin
adds, and I feel good and valuedbeing part of this interaction.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
You've got it.
You need both for that reallysmooth, sustained cooperation.
Oxytocin lowers the defenses.
Serotonin brings the stabilityand the sense of shared purpose.
That's when social flow reallykicks in.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
How would someone know if they're in that state?
What does social flow feel like?
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
Well, it's usually marked by a few things.
Communication feels almosteffortless, right?
You just get what the otherperson means, even if they don't
say it perfectly.
Time can feel a bit weird,sometimes slowing down,
sometimes speeding up.
And cooperation just feelsnatural, easy, intrinsically
motivating.
It's really the peak state ofhuman interaction where you get
(08:45):
both deep connection and highproductivity.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Aaron Powell, which really drives home that empathy
isn't just some soft skill orpassive feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (08:52):
Not at all.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
It's an active mechanism.
We're actually building theneural pathways for connection
every time we do it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Aaron Powell Absolutely.
Every single act of compassion,every genuine attempt to
understand another person isphysically rewiring the neural
circuits for calmness andunderstanding.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
So the more you practice.
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
The stronger and more automatic those pathways
become.
Trust really is built moleculeby molecule, moment by moment.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Aaron Powell Which leads us to the bigger picture,
the sort of widespread payoff.
This isn't just about bettermeetings or happier home lives,
is it?
This core chemistry seems toripple out into our overall
health.
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Aaron Powell It absolutely does.
And it's really fascinating hereis how deeply our relational
health is tied to our physicalhealth.
How so?
Well, emotional openness, thatability to create and recede
safety, it stabilizes the wholenervous system.
And that stability doesn't justfeel good, it directly boosts
immune function.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
How does it boost immunity?
SPEAKER_00 (09:47):
Mainly by lowering the chronic inflammation that
comes with persistently highcortisol levels.
Less stress hormone bathing yoursystem means your immune cells
can function better.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Okay, that's huge.
And the source is alsospecifically mentioned the
heart, right?
There was a metric.
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
Yes.
Heart rate variability or HRV.
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
Right.
HRV.
What is that exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
In simple terms, it's a measure of the tiny
variations in time between eachof your heartbeats.
High HRV means your nervoussystem is adaptable, resilient.
Your heart and brain arecommunicating well, letting your
body respond flexibly to stress.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
And high trust environments improve that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
Yes, consistently.
A stable, safe, high trustenvironment biologically
strengthens that heart-brainconnection, making you
physically more resilient, lesssusceptible to stress-related
problems.
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Aaron Powell So connecting authentically with
people, it's basically like along-term investment in your
cardiovascular and immunehealth.
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
That's a great way to put it.
It's a tangible health benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
And our bodies actually reward us for doing it,
don't they?
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Instantly.
That's the beauty of the design.
When we offer care or showcompassion, we activate the
brain's built-in reward system.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Which chemicals are involved there?
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
That's primarily dopamine, giving you that hit of
motivation and pleasure andendorphins, the natural mood
elevators.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
So kindness literally feels good.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
It feels good because evolution wanted it to
feel good.
Cooperation wasn't just a niceidea.
It was critical for survival.
Our internal chemistry makessure we seek out connection.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
It completely reframes why we help each other,
doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
Okay, so wrapping this part up, the work of
building or repairingrelationships isn't just like
vague psychological effort.
Not at all.
It's tangible.
It's immediate.
It's biochemical work thatchanges our physical state.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
That synthesis is really the core insight from all
this research.
Your social environment shapesyour biology, and your biology
is fundamentally driven byconnection.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
So for everyone listening, what's the big
takeaway here?
I think it's that trust isn'tthis fragile, mystical thing we
need to hoard.
It's really the chemistry offeeling calm, isn't it?
And the rhythm of understandingbetween people.
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Oh said.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
And when you choose to offer empathy, when you
really listen just to understanda line, you're literally making
biology.
You're not just expressing anice thought, you're actively
boosting your own resiliencetoo.
Based on that, the sources had areally simple practical action
step.
It was about committing to offerjust one genuine specific
(12:13):
expression of appreciation orempathy each day.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Yeah, really small things count.
SPEAKER_01 (12:18):
Right.
Could be a quick text, a fewwords to a coworker, maybe just
putting your phone down andreally listening to someone at
home.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
And the crucial part was notice how your own body
feels afterwards.
Do you feel a bit softer?
Is your breathing calmer?
Do you feel more open?
Use your own body's feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
That internal check-in is key.
And building on that, if weaccept that compassion feels
good because it triggers ourreward system, that dopamine,
those endorphins, all designedto promote cooperation, it does
raise kind of a provocativequestion, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
Go on.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Well, what if we started viewing acts of kindness
less as some kind of selflessduty we should do and more as a
really crucial proactive toolfor our own biological
self-regulation?
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Like taking care of our own nervous system by being
kind.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Exactly.
Could reframing it that way asbiological maintenance almost
fundamentally shift how much weprioritize connection and
empathy in the rush of dailylife?
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
That's definitely something to think about.
Treating kindness not just asvirtue, but as vital biological
practice.
A really powerful thought to endon.
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