All Episodes

November 15, 2025 8 mins

Send us a text

We trace how unforgiveness becomes a biological cost: rumination keeps the body in a stress loop, and the brain treats vivid memories like present threats. We reframe forgiveness as a pragmatic relief strategy that calms chemistry, restores focus, and invites repair through a simple writing practice.

• what rumination is and why replays intensify pain
• how stress hormones and inflammation rise with mental looping
• the toll on sleep, immunity and cardiovascular strain
• the tether paradox of holding on for protection
• survival mode overshadowing prefrontal regulation
• reframing forgiveness as biological relief, not moral duty
• an awareness exercise to locate tension in the body
• a step-by-step writing prompt to name the weight

Choose one memory or resentment. Just one. Write what happened, how it made you feel, and how carrying it affects your life today.


This podcast is created by Ai for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute professional medical or health advice. Please talk to your healthcare team for medical advice.

Never miss an episode—subscribe on your favorite podcast app!

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to the deep dive.
Today we are analyzing a stackof sources focused on uh an
incredibly common, yet deeplycorrosive human experience.
Unforgiveness.
And we're not just talking aboutminor annoyances here.
We're talking about those bighurts, you know, the betrayals
that don't just pass through us.

SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
They set up shop.

SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
They set up shop.

SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
And they can linger for, I mean, decades.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
And our mission in this deep dive is to really
break down what that lingeringpresence costs you.
We've been looking at theresearch to understand the uh
the high neurological andphysical price tag of holding on
to that resentment.

SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
So why is the cost so great?
The sources make it really clearthat this isn't just an abstract
thought.

SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
No, not at all.
It settles into your actualphysical system.
It comes down to a coremechanism the mind uses to
process pain, which is um mentallooping.

SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
Mental looping.

SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
Yeah, when we're hurt, the mind just constantly
revisits the memory.
It rehearses the story over andover, trying to find meaning or
justice.

SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Or just trying to make it make sense.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Exactly.
But this internal rehearsal,most of the time, just recreates
the pain.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Okay, let's unpack that constant replay.
What does neuroscience call itwhen the mind gets stuck like
that, replaying a past moment?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Aaron Powell That's rumination.
It's when the mind grabs thatold wound and just keeps trying
to process it.
It's like running brokensoftware on a loop.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
I think we all know that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Oh, absolutely.
Even with tiny things.
Think about a frustrating emailyou got or a, you know, a tense
conversation you had thismorning.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Right.
The conversation is over, buthours later you're in the
kitchen making dinner andsuddenly you're having the
perfect argument in your head.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
With all the best comebacks.
Of course.
Exactly.
And that repetition is where thephysical cost really begins.
Every time you replay that, youstrengthen the neural pathways
for stress and uh emotionalreactivity.

SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
So you're basically paving a mental highway for
anger.

SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
A super highway.
It makes it easier and fasterfor your brain to trigger that
same reaction next time.

SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
But hold on.
If the argument is over and I'mliterally just chopping
vegetables, why is my brainacting as if the threat is
happening right now?

SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
That's the critical insight here.
The brain, you know, it doesn'treally distinguish between a
vivid replayed memory and apresent threat.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
So there's no difference to my body.

SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
None.
If you are vividly running thatloop, your brain is reacting to
your internal reality, not theexternal clock.

SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
So every time I think about that unfair
criticism from my boss a yearago, my body thinks it's
happening again.

SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Precisely.
Every single replay reactivatesthe same emotional chemistry.
Wow.
That means your cortisol rises,your heart rate increases, and
the amygdala, your brain'slittle alarm center, it just
goes off.

SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Aaron Ross Powell As if the threat is right there in
the room with you.

SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
All over again.
So unforgiveness, it keeps yournervous system locked in a state
of hypervigilance.

SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Long after the actual harm is gone.
Long, long after.
That paints such a clearpicture.
The body is stuck paying thisenormous ongoing chemical price
for something that happenedweeks or maybe even years ago.

SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
The sources call it an emotional tax.
And it is costly.
This constant state ofvigilance, it drains your
energy, it disrupts your sleep.

SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
And it floods your body with what?

SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
With inflammatory chemistry.
Your nervous system is justperpetually on high alert.

SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
And living in that state of sort of low-grade
chemical stress, our sourcesshow there are serious long-term
physical consequences.

SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Without a doubt.
The sources detail it as a slowerosion of well-being.
Over time, it's tied to thingslike weakened immune function.

SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Which makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
And significant strain on your cardiovascular
system.
But what's really crucial is howit hits your cognitive
performance.

SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
How so?

SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Well, when your brain is constantly dedicating
precious resources to fighting ahistorical threat.

SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
It doesn't have those resources for what's
happening now.

SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Exactly.
It just can't focus.
Your attention and your memorysuffer.

SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Okay, so we've established the chemical and the
physical cost, but let's shiftto the psychological reality of
it.
Unforgiveness really tethers usto the very thing we want to
escape, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Aaron Powell And what's fascinating here is the
discussion around why we holdon.
If it's so physically painful,why do we do it?

SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
I think we all feel we hold on because we have to.
It feels justified.

SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
It feels like self-protection.

SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
Yeah, like we're protecting our dignity or
guarding against it happeningagain.

SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
And that is the central paradox.
The sources highlight that whileit feels protective, what we're
really doing is protecting awound by keeping it open.

SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Say that again.
Protecting a wound by keeping itopen.

SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
We think letting go means we're giving up on justice
or saying the hurt didn'tmatter.
But psychologically,unforgiveness is described as a
tether.

SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
A cord.

SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
A cord, exactly.
And as long as that cord ispulled tight, the past is
actively shaping your present.

SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Aaron Powell So if you're tethered to a moment of
betrayal from the past, how doesthat actually show up in your
life today?

SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
It makes it incredibly difficult to
experience joy withoutreservation or openness.
Your brain is uh it's primed fordisappointment.

SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
You're always scanning for the next threat.

SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
You are living in survival mode.

SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
And when you're in survival mode, what happens to
the parts of your brain we relyon for perspective, for rational
thought?

SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
Well, the prefrontal cortex, that's the area for
reflection and regulation andlogic.
It gets overshadowed.

SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
By what?

SPEAKER_01 (05:23):
By the limbic system.
The part that controls yourimmediate threat response, it
just takes over.

SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
So the part of our mind that can step back and say,
hey, this isn't helpful, isbasically being muted by the
part that just wants to fight orrun away.

SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
Precisely.
And this shift creates anintense rigidity in thinking.

SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
It narrows your world.

SPEAKER_01 (05:43):
It narrows your ability to see others clearly
and maybe most importantly, tosee yourself clearly.
Unforgiveness structurally keepsyour mind from evolving past the
injury.

SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
Aaron Powell So the solution isn't about changing
the past because that'simpossible.

SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
It's about choosing not to keep reliving it
chemically.

SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Aaron Powell And that choice is what the sources
are calling a kind of biologicalrelief.

SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Aaron Powell It is.
Forgiveness doesn't rewrite theexternal history of what
happened.
What it does, and this isprofound, is it rewires the
brain's internal response to it.

SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Aaron Powell, which is why the sources stressed this
crucial distinction.
Forgiveness isn't necessarilysome moral or religious
obligation.

SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Aaron Powell Not at its core.
It is, first and foremost, apragmatic biological relief
strategy.

SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
It's for you.

SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
It's for you.
It releases that massivephysiological burden.
When your body no longer has tomaintain the chemistry of anger
and vigilance, it can shift itsresources.

SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
It goes from defense straight into repair.

SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
Exactly.
When you consciously stopfighting the battle that
happened five years ago, yoursystem finally gets permission
to stand down.

SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
The chemical storm subsides.

SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
It does.
The elevated cortisol, theinflammatory response, it all
calms down.
And the prefrontal cortex cancome back online.
The wound finally gets theenvironment it needs to close.

SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
So let's wrap up by reconnecting those physical
costs, the cortisol, thevigilance, to that idea of a
rewired brain.
If you've listened this far, youprobably have a specific hurt
that's come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Think of that specific moment or that word or
that injustice that stillechoes.
We're not asking you to judgeit, and we're not asking you to
magically let it go right now.

SPEAKER_00 (07:21):
Not at all.
We're just asking you to see itand to name the physical feeling
of carrying that weight.

SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Feel where that unforgiveness actually lives in
your body.
Is it a tightness in yourshoulders?

SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
A heaviness in your chest.
Or that tension you always havein your jaw.

SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
Awareness is the absolute first step.
Nothing changes until weacknowledge the precise weight
we're carrying and where itlives.
That is your prefrontal cortexstarting to take back control.

SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
And we have a very specific practical action step
for you this week, drawndirectly from the research we
analyzed.

SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Choose one memory or resentment.
Just one.
Something you feel ready toexamine gently.

SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
Then simply write it down.
Write what happened.
Write how it made you feel.
And this is the most importantpart.

SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
Write down clearly how carrying that memory affects
your life today.

SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
The energy drain, the bad sleep, the constant low
level anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 (08:12):
You're not trying to force forgiveness yet.
You are simply naming theweight.

SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
And what happens when you name it?

SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Once a weight is named, the research shows it
becomes lighter.
And that offers the first truestep toward biological relief.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!

Ruthie's Table 4

Ruthie's Table 4

For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

The Joe Rogan Experience

The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.