October 6, 2021 • 22 mins
If the 13th Ward on Chicago’s Southwest Side was Madigan’s political base, then Springfield was his political playground. In Springfield the machinery of state government grinds quietly, conveying wealth and power in equal measure.
Featuring conversations with former governors Jim Edgar, Pat Quinn and George Ryan along with State Representative Will Guzzardi (39th), Amanda Vinicky, Ray Long, Rick Pearson and David McKinney, this episode explores how Madigan came to control the machinery of state government--and came to rule for half a century.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In 1970, Mike Madigan was chosen by Mayor Richard J
Daley as the delegate for theIllinois Constitutional
Convention.
He literally wrote the rulesthat govern Illinois today.
That was the beginning of hiscareer in Springfield.
He was elected to serve the 22nddistrict in 1971, a seat he kept
(00:21):
for 50 years.
He quickly rose through theranks of the Democratic caucus
and thanks to some good oldfashion horse trading became
part of the democraticleadership team in the house.
And after the cutback amendmentthat took the house from 177
members to 118, Madigan claimedthe speakership and he would
hold on to that post for 36 of38 years.
(00:43):
It's the Madigan Rule.
I'm Justin Kaufmann.
This podcast is a production ofthe Better Government
Association.
Episode two, Magic Mike.
(00:55):
If the 13th ward on Chicago's south side was Madigan's
political base, then Springfieldwas his political playground.
Springfield is located incentral Illinois, about a t
hree- hour drive southwest ofChicago.
It's the state Capitol and theplace where in 1859, a young
Abraham Lincoln delivered hisfamous"A House Divided" speech.
(01:15):
More than 150 years later,Springfield i s also the place
where a young Barack Obamalaunched his campaign for the
presidency
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I stand before you today to announce my candidacy
for President of the UnitedStates of America.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But despite those historic moments, Springfield is
mostly a sleepy Illinois townwhere the machinery of state
government grinds quietly behindthe scenes.
For 50 years, the master of thatmachinery has been Mike Madigan.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
He's this short guy.
You could see him walking on thestreet.
He doesn't particularly have,it's not like Ed Burke with a
fedora.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Amanda Vinicky spent more than two decades covering
Springfield.
First for Illinois Public Radioand now for Chicago's PBS
station WTTW.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
But within the capital, oh no.
I mean, he's, he's faunted.
I almost imagine him like acartoon with beams of, of
political power.
My first true interaction withhim was during the Blagojevich
years.
So toward the end of May.
(02:23):
So when session really heats up.
This is when you have the end ofMay deadline to pass a budget.
Legislatures supposed toadjourn.
Things are heated negotiations,and then there's a tornado
warning.
(02:43):
All of anybody at the Capitolhas to go down to the basement,
the dungeon.
In these hallways that are veryeerily creepily.
It looks like something out ofThe Shining.
They are blood red in color,very bizarre, and it's crowded
(03:04):
and it's hot.
And I had my recorder.
I see Speaker Madigan by hislonesome.
Had nowhere to go.
He couldn't escape.
And I went up and interviewedhim.
I wish I could go back.
I wish I still had that tape,but yeah, that's sort of was for
(03:25):
a while my cover letter story.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
The interaction might not sound like much, but it was
unusual because Madigan rarelygave interviews to the press.
Especially as his power grew andhis tenure lengthened.
The Chicago Tribune's, RickPearson.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
It's immense part of, of his personality that is just
pure discipline.
And that you know thatdiscipline kind of shows itself
in the fact that here's this guywith all this power.
And the fact is like, we'redoing here.
You have to rely on other peopleto talk about them because he
never really said much inpublic.
And so you were always kind oflooking for wisps of smoke or
(04:01):
something to divine what wasgoing on with, with, with
Madigan.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Once in a while he would really show his character.
He's funny, he's witty.
He sort of has that wink and youcan see it.
He is a student and not just ofIllinois history, but of history
period.
And he would show that off aswell.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
But Madigan didn't just pay attention to history.
He paid close attention to whatpeople wrote and said.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I mean, he clearly read the paper.
He, you know, he, he, that waspart of the homework.
He would get upset about whatthe Tribune had in his editorial
pages.
He listened to public radio.
He called me a couple of times.
I have to say I didn't pick upbecause it was a blocked number.
And you're like, uh uh, this isspam.
(04:52):
And leave me a message thatwould not take issue.
Generally.
It was more, I learned this fromyour interview.
I mean, not often, but a coupleof times it was like, oh no, th
th the speaker called he'spaying attention.
He listened.
And he had thoughts,perspective, compliments,
umbrage with whatever story Ihad done.
(05:16):
I will certainly say that thatdidn't happen to me with any of
the governors that I've covered.
Their press people, sure.
Constantly.
But the actual official no.
And Madigan did.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Rick Pearson started covering Madigan in the early
eighties.
Historically, the Tribune'seditorial page has been
staunchly Republican.
While that's soften somewhatover the years, the editorial
board still loves to criticizeMadigan.
Again, Rick Pearson.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
I remember getting out of bed in Springfield and
hearing on the radio about MikeMadigan is poised to move an 18%
temporary income tax increasethrough the, through the
legislature.
And he had been fighting withThompson on a tax increase for a
long time, and I'm going, oh,please, this has gotta be wrong,
(06:04):
please, please, please.
It's gotta be wrong.
Well, it became known asOperation Cobra and Madigan was
so irritated with the editorialboard of the Chicago Tribune
that he had it selectivelyleaked to every media outlet in
the state of Illinois, exceptfor the Chicago Tribune.
He later came up to me and, andwith a smile curled on his face
(06:26):
said, that's how the game works.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
No one has played the game of politics and Springfield
better than Mike Madigan.
Where others play checkers,Madigan plays chess.
From legislative maneuvers topolitical favors he relishes the
art of the legislative battle.
Just ask Ray Long.
He covered Madigan for almost 40years.
And one of his favorite memoriesis of the night in 1988, when
(06:54):
Madigan and then Governor JimThompson worked feverously to
put together a stadium deal tokeep the Chicago White Sox from
relocating to Florida.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
I mean, it was one of the most amazing scenes you'll
you'll see in Springfield.
Uh, it looked completely likeSt.
Petersburg, Florida was gonnawin the right to have the, the
White Sox move from Chicago andThompson, uh, Governor Thompson
came storming in about 4:00 PM,looked at some of the glum,
(07:23):
faces around his office andsaid, no, this is not going to
happen.
He went up to sit with PatePhillip, his minority leader in
the Senate, and brought inRepublican votes.
They pushed it through theSenate, then Thompson tears
across, uh, the rotunda with thecrowds out there.
And they opened up the bigwooden doors of the house
(07:44):
chamber.
And he goes roaring in and he'sgot spotters from his staff
pointing to lawmakers that hehas to come around and twist
arms.
And Madigan's on the other side.
And he's working a sheet ofpaper that he's got with all the
names of potential swing votesthat he could talk to go in and
sooner or later, you know, it'scoming down to like three
(08:04):
minutes before midnight.
And they've, they're still likefour or five votes short.
Well, they pick up a couplemore.
Then they pick up a couple moreand they're pointing back and
forth.
And then Thompson is standingover guy named, uh Steng or
Representatives Steng.
And he convinces Steng to go forit.
And they pushed the 60th button.
(08:26):
And then the, uh, majorityleader says at 11:59, the bill
passes, they started printingout the roll calls.
Everybody knew it was pastmidnight and they started
printing out the roll calls andthe roll calls said 12:03 on
them.
So they started grabbing allthese roll calls and whiting out
12:03, but they forgot to markout July 1st.
(08:50):
And all the Florida TV cameramen were going, the Sox are
going to Florida.
The Sox are going to Florida,but Thompson is practically
levitating off the floor.
And then he gets hit up with abunch of reporters.
And he says, no way, the speakersaid it was 11:59 when it
passed.
And no court in the nation isgoing to say it, it wasn't.
That was the time that Madiganheld the clock back.
(09:14):
And, uh, he made time standstill.
And that was one of the greatmoments of his legend
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Madigan's power didn't just come from clock
management or manipulation.
It also came from masteringparliamentary procedure and from
counting votes.
Former Republican Governor JimEdgar got his start in state
politics in the Illinois housein the seventies working across
the aisle from Mike Madigan.
Speaker 6 (09:43):
My first recollection of dealing with him was my
freshman year as a state rep.
At that point, the Democratswere in control of the house.
And while Redmond was speaker,for all practical purposes,
Madigan was speaker, but he wasalso chairman of the assignment
committee of bills.
I mean, he knew very early onwhere the power was.
(10:05):
We always used to think asRepublicans, if we could extend
the voting hour from six toseven, we'd pick up a lot more
votes because a lot ofsuburbanites coming back would
have time to vote.
Well, the Democrats thought thesame thing and they were
adamantly opposed to extendingthe voting hour from six to
seven and someway they got anamendment put on in the Senate
(10:27):
and it came back to the house,,well I'm the sponsor.
Well, I'm getting all thispressure from the governor's
office and everybody's got toget that bill passed, got to
call that bill.
I can't get the bill called.
So I went up to see Redmond, whowas a nice guy.
I went up and I said, you got atleast give me a shot.
It's not fair enough to let meat least have the bill call.
He said, all right, I promiseyou you'll get a call.
(10:48):
Well, we're coming down to thedeadline of midnight and it's
about 10 o'clock.
And I still haven't got a calland about 11 o'clock, I go up to
Madigan and I said, Mike, whenare you going to call my bill?
I said, Redmond promised me Iget a call my bill.
And he looked at me and I cannotrepeat exactly what he said is
going to happen to me.
(11:08):
So I went and found Redmond andI just chewed on Redmond.
And finally Redmond came out onthe podium, five minutes to 12
and called my bill.
Of course, every Democrat waslined up to talk about my bill.
Five minutes later, he said,it's now midnight.
And all these bills are dead.
My bill died.
And that was Madigan.
And he was, oh, but he was veryhonest with me up front.
(11:30):
We're going to stick it to youin so many words.
And they did.
So, Madigan I learned early on,he never would lie.
I mean, he he'd always tell youthe truth.
Usually you didn't want to hearit, but he'd tell you that he
seemed to take some delight whenhe stuck it to me though.
He always smiled, you know, butI also knew even then, I mean, I
bet he was the power in thehouse.
(11:51):
And you know, you had to, youknow, you had to deal with it
and I didn't find him evil, or Ididn't find him distasteful.
He just was a tough negotiatorand a tough guy to do business
with.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Madigan's toughness didn't just come from mastering
his side of the aisle.
It also came from knowingeverything he possibly could
about his opponents, theRepublicans, again, Governor Jim
Edgar.
(12:12):
Madigan we start working the roll call on the house.
I talk George Reiners is theRepublican leader in the house.
And he told me how many votes hehad.
Madigan told me how many voteshe had.
And he said, what George tellyou?
And I said, this is how manyvotes he doesn't have that many
votes.
He's I didn't have those votes.
He says, and he went through theroll call that Brian had given
me.
And he says, no, no, this iswrong.
Now you might be able to getthis.
And he went through that rolland he had exactly how the
(12:37):
Republican better than Georgedid the leader.
I learned that day.
Nobody counts better than MikeMadigan and Phil Rock great guy,
but he can't count George Ryan,great guy.
He can't count that point on.
I always had a great deal ofrespect for Mike Madigan and his
ability to understand theprocess and get things done.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Madigan's mastery of vote counts, legislative
assignments and parliamentarymaneuver set him apart from most
other lawmakers.
After all being a staterepresentative or state Senator
is technically a part-time job,but Madigan never treated it
that way.
As a young lawmaker, Madiganmastered the art of the
legislative process, but he alsobenefited from something else.
(13:18):
Again, the Chicago Tribune'sRick Pearson.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
It happened in 1982 effective with that election was
that the F that was the firstyear of the smaller Illinois
house.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
This was the cutback amendment, the only citizen
driven initiative that made itsway into the state constitution.
It reduced the size of theIllinois house from 177 members
to 118 and implemented singlemember districts, just like we
have in the us Congress, the manbehind the cutback amendment,
then concerned citizen, PatQuinn.
Speaker 7 (13:50):
Madigan was very much opposed to the cutback
commandment.
Well, he led booing of the statelegislature, the house we had
done this petition drive againstadvanced pay and, uh, Jim
Houlihan, who was arepresentative introduced me.
I was sitting in the gallery and, uh, when they saw that I was
there in the gallery of thehouse, the entire house stood up
(14:14):
Democrat and Republican andbooed me for three minutes.
Standing boovation led byMadigan.
So who Houlihan said to Madigan,um, you know, this is a terrible
thing.
You're booing a fellow Irishmanand Madigan said he's not worthy
of being called an Irishman.
So he was definitely not mysupport or friend.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Cut back amendment ultimately became the law of the
land in Illinois.
And the structure of the generalassembly changed while Madigan
may not have realized that atthe time, the cutback amendment
proved to be a good thing forhim.
It consolidated power among theparties' legislative leaders,
and that helped Madigan draw thedistrict boundaries for the all
important political maps.
When Jim Edgar ran for governoras a Republican in 1992, he
(14:56):
learned the hard way, just howimportant those maps were.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
People got to understand that's the bottom
line and Springfield, the map,uh, this idea that Republicans
are going to be fair.
Democrats going to be fair.
That's just not true.
Not on this issue, this, this,they might be fair on everything
else, but not on a map.
And he wanted the map.
So he did everything he could tobeat me.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Edgar ultimately won that election.
After his victory, he reachedout to have lunch and mend
fences with Phil Rock, who wasthe Senate president, Richard M
Daley, the mayor of Chicago andMichael Madigan, the speaker of
the house
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Within a week.
I had a lunch with both PhilRock and Rich Daley who was then
mayor.
I didn't get a reply fromMadigan.
We kept calling and calling.
This was, this is November.
We kept calling in December.
Ah, just kind of busy right now.
You know, too busy called him inJanuary.
No reply, no February, no reply.
You know, we're in the session.
(15:49):
And I thought of all the guys, Ithought I'd be able to work with
Madigan because we'd worked welltogether.
I think Madigan figured one Ithink he was ticked that I won
because that's going to screw uphis map points that secondly, I
think he figured out he's, he'sa new kid.
I'm going to teach him a lessonand you're just going to show
him who's, you know, who's theboss.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And you're finally got that meeting with Madigan,
but it took him five months.
Here's democratic staterepresentative Will Guzzardi.
He represents the 39th districtin Chicago.
Speaker 8 (16:17):
I had dinner with him one time.
And Madigan said to me, I'veworked with democratic
governors.
I've worked with Republicangovernors and it's always the
same.
They come in and they talk a biggame.
And then late may, right towardthe end of session, I sit down
with them and I say, listen,governor, here's what you're
going to get.
Here's what you're not going toget.
(16:38):
Here's what you might get.
If you're a good boy.
And then, and then we hash itout and that, you know, so
they'll come in.
He talks this big game, butwe're eventually we're going to
sit down and get it done.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
Came to my office was very cordial.
I mean, we didn't anythingagreed on, but we had a nice
frank discussion.
This was late March.
I've been soaring asgoveGovernorrnor in the middle
of January, the rest of my termas governor, anytime I wanted to
meet with a speaker, he wouldalways insist I'm coming to your
office.
You're the governor.
He would come down, we'd havemeetings.
The two of us said that oftenwe'd have lunch.
(17:11):
And I'd always say, he's a cheapdate.
All he easts is an apple.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Imagine that regular lunch meetings between leaders
of both parties.
Here's another Republicangovernor, Governor George Ryan.
Speaker 9 (17:20):
I've never had a bad experience with Mike Madigan.
He was always a gentleman and henever had asked me to do
anything wrong.
We, we discussed a lot of thingsand worked together to zip.
I think there's some good thingsfor the state of Illinois.
Mike was a very meticulous guyabout what he did.
He, when he, when he was the,when he was a leader and the
(17:42):
speaker, I can recall he, uh,read every bill.
I think that came through hisoffice and made some very
conscious decisions about all ofit.
And didn't pass it off in mostcases.
And every time I worked with him, um, he knew what he was
talking about and knew what hewanted.
And, uh, uh, he was notdifficult to work with.
(18:04):
If he told you he was going todo something he did, as you
know, we didn't always agree onthings, but major things.
We did, you know, the thingsthat the city of Chicago needed
do, I they'd kept to.
And of course I had to appease alot of the downstate guys, but
we always managed to get thingsworked out for the benefit of
the state.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And if winning is everything, what made Madigan
stand apart was his ability todeal.
Former Sun-Times statehousebureau, chief, and now WBZ
statehouse reporter DaveMcKinney.
Speaker 10 (18:38):
If Madigan thinks that he's got somebody who will
deal with him, it wouldn'tmatter what political stripes
they had.
You know, George Ryan is a goodexample, a Republican, and they
served together in the Illinoishouse.
And you would think that theywould have been natural rivals,
but I would argue that probablynext to Thompson and George
(18:58):
Ryan.
I mean, he had no better friendsin Springfield, you know, the
two Republican governors.
And in fact, in his office, youknow, when he was still kind of
allowing reporters into hisoffice, there was a picture
hanging on the wall of, of apress conference where Madigan
was standing in the backgroundand, and Ryan was at the podium.
And it was almost as if that wassort of just a picture of
friends hanging on his wall inhis office, in the, in the state
(19:22):
house, don't forget Madigan had,he had an interest.
He had so many people layeredinto state government in jobs
and contracts and things likethat.
It's helpful to have, you know,a supportive government for
those types of people.
So they don't get hassled intheir jobs or moved around or
fired or whatever.
And so, you know, just keepingthat running and keeping that
(19:44):
machinery operating was in hisinterest.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Madigan's influence came not just from his mastery
of the details or hiswillingness to take care of his
friends.
It also came from how he treatedhis opponents.
He selectively wielded power toreward and to punish, but above
all, Madigan was a master atplaying the long game.
Thinking not just one stepahead, but three again, State
(20:07):
Representative Will Guzzardi.
Speaker 8 (20:09):
I learned a ton from the speaker.
You can conduct fight overpublic policy, or you can work
really hard to achieve alegislative outcome in a way
that is ruthless and relentlessand burns bridges.
But man, in the legislature,there's always another fight the
next day.
(20:29):
I've seen it over the years withcolleagues who engage in that
kind of behavior.
And pretty soon they findthemselves with very few friends
and an awful lot of enemies andunable to accomplish the stuff
that their constituents sentthem there to do that
legislating it's a team sportand it requires building
consensus.
And it doesn't mean you have toagree with folks or compromise
(20:51):
on your values, but it meansthat you have to engage in that
process in such a way that isabout addition and not
subtraction.
And he was really truly a masterof addition.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
State representative Will Gizzardi, Governor E dgar,
Governor Quinn, Governor Ryan, I'm g oing to come i n this
podcast, the Madigan rule,including a conversation with
another governor.
Speaker 11 (21:18):
Did Mike Madigan want good government?
Hell no.
He wanted the political powerand he wanted me gone.
And he succeeded.
He by blocking me out, theycould say, well, he was a do
nothing governor.
He should be tossed in the endwe took each other out.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
The Madigan rule is produced by me, Justin Kaufmann,
in association with the BGA, theexecutive producer, David
Gresing.
Special thanks to Steve Edwardsfor story consulting and to Alex
Sugihara for the music to findout more about the Better
Government Association,investigative reporting and
watchdog efforts go tobettergov.org.
Speaker 12 (21:58):
Um,
In 1970, Mike Madigan was chosen by Mayor Richard J
Daley as the delegate for theIllinois Constitutional
Convention.
He literally wrote the rulesthat govern Illinois today.
That was the beginning of hiscareer in Springfield.
He was elected to serve the 22nddistrict in 1971, a seat he kept
(00:21):
for 50 years.
He quickly rose through theranks of the Democratic caucus
and thanks to some good oldfashion horse trading became
part of the democraticleadership team in the house.
And after the cutback amendmentthat took the house from 177
members to 118, Madigan claimedthe speakership and he would
hold on to that post for 36 of38 years.
(00:43):
It's the Madigan Rule.
I'm Justin Kaufmann.
This podcast is a production ofthe Better Government
Association.
Episode two, Magic Mike.
(00:55):
If the 13th ward on Chicago's south side was Madigan's
political base, then Springfieldwas his political playground.
Springfield is located incentral Illinois, about a t
hree- hour drive southwest ofChicago.
It's the state Capitol and theplace where in 1859, a young
Abraham Lincoln delivered hisfamous"A House Divided" speech.
(01:15):
More than 150 years later,Springfield i s also the place
where a young Barack Obamalaunched his campaign for the
presidency
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I stand before you today to announce my candidacy
for President of the UnitedStates of America.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But despite those historic moments, Springfield is
mostly a sleepy Illinois townwhere the machinery of state
government grinds quietly behindthe scenes.
For 50 years, the master of thatmachinery has been Mike Madigan.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
He's this short guy.
You could see him walking on thestreet.
He doesn't particularly have,it's not like Ed Burke with a
fedora.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Amanda Vinicky spent more than two decades covering
Springfield.
First for Illinois Public Radioand now for Chicago's PBS
station WTTW.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
But within the capital, oh no.
I mean, he's, he's faunted.
I almost imagine him like acartoon with beams of, of
political power.
My first true interaction withhim was during the Blagojevich
years.
So toward the end of May.
(02:23):
So when session really heats up.
This is when you have the end ofMay deadline to pass a budget.
Legislatures supposed toadjourn.
Things are heated negotiations,and then there's a tornado
warning.
(02:43):
All of anybody at the Capitolhas to go down to the basement,
the dungeon.
In these hallways that are veryeerily creepily.
It looks like something out ofThe Shining.
They are blood red in color,very bizarre, and it's crowded
(03:04):
and it's hot.
And I had my recorder.
I see Speaker Madigan by hislonesome.
Had nowhere to go.
He couldn't escape.
And I went up and interviewedhim.
I wish I could go back.
I wish I still had that tape,but yeah, that's sort of was for
(03:25):
a while my cover letter story.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
The interaction might not sound like much, but it was
unusual because Madigan rarelygave interviews to the press.
Especially as his power grew andhis tenure lengthened.
The Chicago Tribune's, RickPearson.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
It's immense part of, of his personality that is just
pure discipline.
And that you know thatdiscipline kind of shows itself
in the fact that here's this guywith all this power.
And the fact is like, we'redoing here.
You have to rely on other peopleto talk about them because he
never really said much inpublic.
And so you were always kind oflooking for wisps of smoke or
(04:01):
something to divine what wasgoing on with, with, with
Madigan.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Once in a while he would really show his character.
He's funny, he's witty.
He sort of has that wink and youcan see it.
He is a student and not just ofIllinois history, but of history
period.
And he would show that off aswell.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
But Madigan didn't just pay attention to history.
He paid close attention to whatpeople wrote and said.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I mean, he clearly read the paper.
He, you know, he, he, that waspart of the homework.
He would get upset about whatthe Tribune had in his editorial
pages.
He listened to public radio.
He called me a couple of times.
I have to say I didn't pick upbecause it was a blocked number.
And you're like, uh uh, this isspam.
(04:52):
And leave me a message thatwould not take issue.
Generally.
It was more, I learned this fromyour interview.
I mean, not often, but a coupleof times it was like, oh no, th
th the speaker called he'spaying attention.
He listened.
And he had thoughts,perspective, compliments,
umbrage with whatever story Ihad done.
(05:16):
I will certainly say that thatdidn't happen to me with any of
the governors that I've covered.
Their press people, sure.
Constantly.
But the actual official no.
And Madigan did.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Rick Pearson started covering Madigan in the early
eighties.
Historically, the Tribune'seditorial page has been
staunchly Republican.
While that's soften somewhatover the years, the editorial
board still loves to criticizeMadigan.
Again, Rick Pearson.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
I remember getting out of bed in Springfield and
hearing on the radio about MikeMadigan is poised to move an 18%
temporary income tax increasethrough the, through the
legislature.
And he had been fighting withThompson on a tax increase for a
long time, and I'm going, oh,please, this has gotta be wrong,
(06:04):
please, please, please.
It's gotta be wrong.
Well, it became known asOperation Cobra and Madigan was
so irritated with the editorialboard of the Chicago Tribune
that he had it selectivelyleaked to every media outlet in
the state of Illinois, exceptfor the Chicago Tribune.
He later came up to me and, andwith a smile curled on his face
(06:26):
said, that's how the game works.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
No one has played the game of politics and Springfield
better than Mike Madigan.
Where others play checkers,Madigan plays chess.
From legislative maneuvers topolitical favors he relishes the
art of the legislative battle.
Just ask Ray Long.
He covered Madigan for almost 40years.
And one of his favorite memoriesis of the night in 1988, when
(06:54):
Madigan and then Governor JimThompson worked feverously to
put together a stadium deal tokeep the Chicago White Sox from
relocating to Florida.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
I mean, it was one of the most amazing scenes you'll
you'll see in Springfield.
Uh, it looked completely likeSt.
Petersburg, Florida was gonnawin the right to have the, the
White Sox move from Chicago andThompson, uh, Governor Thompson
came storming in about 4:00 PM,looked at some of the glum,
(07:23):
faces around his office andsaid, no, this is not going to
happen.
He went up to sit with PatePhillip, his minority leader in
the Senate, and brought inRepublican votes.
They pushed it through theSenate, then Thompson tears
across, uh, the rotunda with thecrowds out there.
And they opened up the bigwooden doors of the house
(07:44):
chamber.
And he goes roaring in and he'sgot spotters from his staff
pointing to lawmakers that hehas to come around and twist
arms.
And Madigan's on the other side.
And he's working a sheet ofpaper that he's got with all the
names of potential swing votesthat he could talk to go in and
sooner or later, you know, it'scoming down to like three
(08:04):
minutes before midnight.
And they've, they're still likefour or five votes short.
Well, they pick up a couplemore.
Then they pick up a couple moreand they're pointing back and
forth.
And then Thompson is standingover guy named, uh Steng or
Representatives Steng.
And he convinces Steng to go forit.
And they pushed the 60th button.
(08:26):
And then the, uh, majorityleader says at 11:59, the bill
passes, they started printingout the roll calls.
Everybody knew it was pastmidnight and they started
printing out the roll calls andthe roll calls said 12:03 on
them.
So they started grabbing allthese roll calls and whiting out
12:03, but they forgot to markout July 1st.
(08:50):
And all the Florida TV cameramen were going, the Sox are
going to Florida.
The Sox are going to Florida,but Thompson is practically
levitating off the floor.
And then he gets hit up with abunch of reporters.
And he says, no way, the speakersaid it was 11:59 when it
passed.
And no court in the nation isgoing to say it, it wasn't.
That was the time that Madiganheld the clock back.
(09:14):
And, uh, he made time standstill.
And that was one of the greatmoments of his legend
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Madigan's power didn't just come from clock
management or manipulation.
It also came from masteringparliamentary procedure and from
counting votes.
Former Republican Governor JimEdgar got his start in state
politics in the Illinois housein the seventies working across
the aisle from Mike Madigan.
Speaker 6 (09:43):
My first recollection of dealing with him was my
freshman year as a state rep.
At that point, the Democratswere in control of the house.
And while Redmond was speaker,for all practical purposes,
Madigan was speaker, but he wasalso chairman of the assignment
committee of bills.
I mean, he knew very early onwhere the power was.
(10:05):
We always used to think asRepublicans, if we could extend
the voting hour from six toseven, we'd pick up a lot more
votes because a lot ofsuburbanites coming back would
have time to vote.
Well, the Democrats thought thesame thing and they were
adamantly opposed to extendingthe voting hour from six to
seven and someway they got anamendment put on in the Senate
(10:27):
and it came back to the house,,well I'm the sponsor.
Well, I'm getting all thispressure from the governor's
office and everybody's got toget that bill passed, got to
call that bill.
I can't get the bill called.
So I went up to see Redmond, whowas a nice guy.
I went up and I said, you got atleast give me a shot.
It's not fair enough to let meat least have the bill call.
He said, all right, I promiseyou you'll get a call.
(10:48):
Well, we're coming down to thedeadline of midnight and it's
about 10 o'clock.
And I still haven't got a calland about 11 o'clock, I go up to
Madigan and I said, Mike, whenare you going to call my bill?
I said, Redmond promised me Iget a call my bill.
And he looked at me and I cannotrepeat exactly what he said is
going to happen to me.
(11:08):
So I went and found Redmond andI just chewed on Redmond.
And finally Redmond came out onthe podium, five minutes to 12
and called my bill.
Of course, every Democrat waslined up to talk about my bill.
Five minutes later, he said,it's now midnight.
And all these bills are dead.
My bill died.
And that was Madigan.
And he was, oh, but he was veryhonest with me up front.
(11:30):
We're going to stick it to youin so many words.
And they did.
So, Madigan I learned early on,he never would lie.
I mean, he he'd always tell youthe truth.
Usually you didn't want to hearit, but he'd tell you that he
seemed to take some delight whenhe stuck it to me though.
He always smiled, you know, butI also knew even then, I mean, I
bet he was the power in thehouse.
(11:51):
And you know, you had to, youknow, you had to deal with it
and I didn't find him evil, or Ididn't find him distasteful.
He just was a tough negotiatorand a tough guy to do business
with.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Madigan's toughness didn't just come from mastering
his side of the aisle.
It also came from knowingeverything he possibly could
about his opponents, theRepublicans, again, Governor Jim
Edgar.
(12:12):
Madigan we start working the roll call on the house.
I talk George Reiners is theRepublican leader in the house.
And he told me how many votes hehad.
Madigan told me how many voteshe had.
And he said, what George tellyou?
And I said, this is how manyvotes he doesn't have that many
votes.
He's I didn't have those votes.
He says, and he went through theroll call that Brian had given
me.
And he says, no, no, this iswrong.
Now you might be able to getthis.
And he went through that rolland he had exactly how the
(12:37):
Republican better than Georgedid the leader.
I learned that day.
Nobody counts better than MikeMadigan and Phil Rock great guy,
but he can't count George Ryan,great guy.
He can't count that point on.
I always had a great deal ofrespect for Mike Madigan and his
ability to understand theprocess and get things done.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Madigan's mastery of vote counts, legislative
assignments and parliamentarymaneuver set him apart from most
other lawmakers.
After all being a staterepresentative or state Senator
is technically a part-time job,but Madigan never treated it
that way.
As a young lawmaker, Madiganmastered the art of the
legislative process, but he alsobenefited from something else.
(13:18):
Again, the Chicago Tribune'sRick Pearson.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
It happened in 1982 effective with that election was
that the F that was the firstyear of the smaller Illinois
house.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
This was the cutback amendment, the only citizen
driven initiative that made itsway into the state constitution.
It reduced the size of theIllinois house from 177 members
to 118 and implemented singlemember districts, just like we
have in the us Congress, the manbehind the cutback amendment,
then concerned citizen, PatQuinn.
Speaker 7 (13:50):
Madigan was very much opposed to the cutback
commandment.
Well, he led booing of the statelegislature, the house we had
done this petition drive againstadvanced pay and, uh, Jim
Houlihan, who was arepresentative introduced me.
I was sitting in the gallery and, uh, when they saw that I was
there in the gallery of thehouse, the entire house stood up
(14:14):
Democrat and Republican andbooed me for three minutes.
Standing boovation led byMadigan.
So who Houlihan said to Madigan,um, you know, this is a terrible
thing.
You're booing a fellow Irishmanand Madigan said he's not worthy
of being called an Irishman.
So he was definitely not mysupport or friend.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Cut back amendment ultimately became the law of the
land in Illinois.
And the structure of the generalassembly changed while Madigan
may not have realized that atthe time, the cutback amendment
proved to be a good thing forhim.
It consolidated power among theparties' legislative leaders,
and that helped Madigan draw thedistrict boundaries for the all
important political maps.
When Jim Edgar ran for governoras a Republican in 1992, he
(14:56):
learned the hard way, just howimportant those maps were.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
People got to understand that's the bottom
line and Springfield, the map,uh, this idea that Republicans
are going to be fair.
Democrats going to be fair.
That's just not true.
Not on this issue, this, this,they might be fair on everything
else, but not on a map.
And he wanted the map.
So he did everything he could tobeat me.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Edgar ultimately won that election.
After his victory, he reachedout to have lunch and mend
fences with Phil Rock, who wasthe Senate president, Richard M
Daley, the mayor of Chicago andMichael Madigan, the speaker of
the house
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Within a week.
I had a lunch with both PhilRock and Rich Daley who was then
mayor.
I didn't get a reply fromMadigan.
We kept calling and calling.
This was, this is November.
We kept calling in December.
Ah, just kind of busy right now.
You know, too busy called him inJanuary.
No reply, no February, no reply.
You know, we're in the session.
(15:49):
And I thought of all the guys, Ithought I'd be able to work with
Madigan because we'd worked welltogether.
I think Madigan figured one Ithink he was ticked that I won
because that's going to screw uphis map points that secondly, I
think he figured out he's, he'sa new kid.
I'm going to teach him a lessonand you're just going to show
him who's, you know, who's theboss.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
And you're finally got that meeting with Madigan,
but it took him five months.
Here's democratic staterepresentative Will Guzzardi.
He represents the 39th districtin Chicago.
Speaker 8 (16:17):
I had dinner with him one time.
And Madigan said to me, I'veworked with democratic
governors.
I've worked with Republicangovernors and it's always the
same.
They come in and they talk a biggame.
And then late may, right towardthe end of session, I sit down
with them and I say, listen,governor, here's what you're
going to get.
Here's what you're not going toget.
(16:38):
Here's what you might get.
If you're a good boy.
And then, and then we hash itout and that, you know, so
they'll come in.
He talks this big game, butwe're eventually we're going to
sit down and get it done.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
Came to my office was very cordial.
I mean, we didn't anythingagreed on, but we had a nice
frank discussion.
This was late March.
I've been soaring asgoveGovernorrnor in the middle
of January, the rest of my termas governor, anytime I wanted to
meet with a speaker, he wouldalways insist I'm coming to your
office.
You're the governor.
He would come down, we'd havemeetings.
The two of us said that oftenwe'd have lunch.
(17:11):
And I'd always say, he's a cheapdate.
All he easts is an apple.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Imagine that regular lunch meetings between leaders
of both parties.
Here's another Republicangovernor, Governor George Ryan.
Speaker 9 (17:20):
I've never had a bad experience with Mike Madigan.
He was always a gentleman and henever had asked me to do
anything wrong.
We, we discussed a lot of thingsand worked together to zip.
I think there's some good thingsfor the state of Illinois.
Mike was a very meticulous guyabout what he did.
He, when he, when he was the,when he was a leader and the
(17:42):
speaker, I can recall he, uh,read every bill.
I think that came through hisoffice and made some very
conscious decisions about all ofit.
And didn't pass it off in mostcases.
And every time I worked with him, um, he knew what he was
talking about and knew what hewanted.
And, uh, uh, he was notdifficult to work with.
(18:04):
If he told you he was going todo something he did, as you
know, we didn't always agree onthings, but major things.
We did, you know, the thingsthat the city of Chicago needed
do, I they'd kept to.
And of course I had to appease alot of the downstate guys, but
we always managed to get thingsworked out for the benefit of
the state.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And if winning is everything, what made Madigan
stand apart was his ability todeal.
Former Sun-Times statehousebureau, chief, and now WBZ
statehouse reporter DaveMcKinney.
Speaker 10 (18:38):
If Madigan thinks that he's got somebody who will
deal with him, it wouldn'tmatter what political stripes
they had.
You know, George Ryan is a goodexample, a Republican, and they
served together in the Illinoishouse.
And you would think that theywould have been natural rivals,
but I would argue that probablynext to Thompson and George
(18:58):
Ryan.
I mean, he had no better friendsin Springfield, you know, the
two Republican governors.
And in fact, in his office, youknow, when he was still kind of
allowing reporters into hisoffice, there was a picture
hanging on the wall of, of apress conference where Madigan
was standing in the backgroundand, and Ryan was at the podium.
And it was almost as if that wassort of just a picture of
friends hanging on his wall inhis office, in the, in the state
(19:22):
house, don't forget Madigan had,he had an interest.
He had so many people layeredinto state government in jobs
and contracts and things likethat.
It's helpful to have, you know,a supportive government for
those types of people.
So they don't get hassled intheir jobs or moved around or
fired or whatever.
And so, you know, just keepingthat running and keeping that
(19:44):
machinery operating was in hisinterest.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Madigan's influence came not just from his mastery
of the details or hiswillingness to take care of his
friends.
It also came from how he treatedhis opponents.
He selectively wielded power toreward and to punish, but above
all, Madigan was a master atplaying the long game.
Thinking not just one stepahead, but three again, State
(20:07):
Representative Will Guzzardi.
Speaker 8 (20:09):
I learned a ton from the speaker.
You can conduct fight overpublic policy, or you can work
really hard to achieve alegislative outcome in a way
that is ruthless and relentlessand burns bridges.
But man, in the legislature,there's always another fight the
next day.
(20:29):
I've seen it over the years withcolleagues who engage in that
kind of behavior.
And pretty soon they findthemselves with very few friends
and an awful lot of enemies andunable to accomplish the stuff
that their constituents sentthem there to do that
legislating it's a team sportand it requires building
consensus.
And it doesn't mean you have toagree with folks or compromise
(20:51):
on your values, but it meansthat you have to engage in that
process in such a way that isabout addition and not
subtraction.
And he was really truly a masterof addition.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
State representative Will Gizzardi, Governor E dgar,
Governor Quinn, Governor Ryan, I'm g oing to come i n this
podcast, the Madigan rule,including a conversation with
another governor.
Speaker 11 (21:18):
Did Mike Madigan want good government?
Hell no.
He wanted the political powerand he wanted me gone.
And he succeeded.
He by blocking me out, theycould say, well, he was a do
nothing governor.
He should be tossed in the endwe took each other out.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
The Madigan rule is produced by me, Justin Kaufmann,
in association with the BGA, theexecutive producer, David
Gresing.
Special thanks to Steve Edwardsfor story consulting and to Alex
Sugihara for the music to findout more about the Better
Government Association,investigative reporting and
watchdog efforts go tobettergov.org.
Speaker 12 (21:58):
Um,
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