December 27, 2024 • 69 mins
Transformational Coaching and the Power of Resilience with Michele Capots
Join Christine and Sarah on this heartfelt and laughter-filled episode as they welcome transformational coach and international speaker Michele Capots. Michele delves into her personal journey of overcoming mental health challenges and shares profound insights on coaching, resilience, and mental wellness. Learn about her innovative techniques including meditation, tapping, and the Mastery Method. The Gaster Girls also share their personal stories and aspirations, creating a deeply inspirational and emotional narrative. This episode shines a light on the importance of mental wellness, the power of community, and the impact of simply being present for one another.
How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!
Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:03):
Always.
Sarah (00:05):
the intro.
So there you go.
Chris (00:09):
Sorry.
Sarah (00:09):
to bare bones banter with a gaster girls.
We have a very special guestthis evening.
Michelle Kapats is here to joinus.
Welcome to the show, Michelle
Michele (00:19):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Sarah (00:21):
and Michelle is with us.
She is a transformational coachand international speaker.
That sounds so fancy.
I love it.
Before,
Chris (00:29):
just also jump in and say that Michelle is my friend from
college and I loved her andadmired her and I continue to
love her and admire her.
Kapats! It's so good to haveyou.
Michele (00:40):
Thank you.
I love you, Gaster.
Sarah (00:43):
I was fortunate enough to meet Michelle when I was in high
school.
Or was I in I was little and shewas super fancy to me then.
I always thought she was thecoolest.
So anyway,
Michele (00:55):
here more often.
I'm just getting so manycompliments.
Sarah (00:59):
there you go.
To make you feel even better.
I want to open up with sometestimonials from your website,
from some of your clients, andthen we'll get started.
Once I read these, I'm going tohand it over to you, Michelle,
to give us your story and tellus a bit more about how you got
where you are today.
The first testimonial is fromDavid in Sacramento and he
states, Michelle is rich in bothwisdom, compassion, and endears
(01:23):
herself to those she serves.
I can't imagine anyone moreskilled and selfless in the
world of healing practices.
next is from Tara in Annapolis,Michelle's transformational
coaching is life changing andlife fulfilling.
I was stuck professionally dueto old thoughts, patterns, and
habits.
Michelle was able to help me digdeep to release these old ways
(01:44):
of living and thinking so that Icould step into my personal
power and have the confidenceneeded to create and live all of
my dreams.
Her coaching program is so worththe time and money that you put
into it, as you will reap therewards tenfold.
And lastly, I chose this onebecause my work has a plant in
Alexandria, Louisiana.
(02:05):
So I thought that was cool.
Michele (02:06):
Ah,
Sarah (02:07):
And I just liked it.
This is Robert from Alexandria,Louisiana.
And he says, Michelle has astory, which is both captivating
and inspirational.
I was engaged and enlightened byMichelle's talk concerning
mental illness, alcoholism, andinteraction with those whom We
care about most importantly, sheemphasizes the fact that there
(02:28):
are no words to be said thatwill outperform the act of just
being present for those in need.
She is a most incredible andoutstanding woman.
And I wanted to lead, I thoughtthat was.
That's a good one to end withand lead into your story since
Robert had mentioned it and Ialso love the mention of just
(02:48):
the act of being present.
And I think we forget howimportant that is, but I'll hand
it over to you, Michelle.
Go for it.
Michele (02:55):
Okay.
Thank you.
It warms my heart to hear those.
And it's in the last decade, Ihave supported more than a
thousand men and women to reachtheir goals.
And I'm amazed that my wordshave been published in national
publications that reach 20million subscribers globally.
(03:19):
But the thing I'm most proud ofis the way my life has
transformed from someone who wasuncomfortable in her own skin
into someone that truly lovesthemself today.
Because that wasn't always thecase.
(03:39):
It was the summer of 2005 let mepreface that by saying at that
time, I was working at anational magazine.
I had overcome a clinicaldepression.
My boyfriend and I had justmoved in together.
I was in my early thirties.
(04:00):
And I was checking off the boxesin my head.
I felt like my life was justtaking off.
But on a sweltering hot Augustday, I found myself wandering
back and forth, wondering, whatam I going to do?
(04:21):
What am I going to do?
My heart was beating about aminute.
The only thing I could hear wasthe cars whizzing by me on the
Route 68 interstate.
My Tasmanian Devil boxer shortswere sliding off my sweaty legs.
I used my t shirt to wipe thesweat from my brow, not even
(04:45):
caring that I was exposing mybreasts, and the hot gravel
beneath me pierced my bare feet.
And then, I did something that Ihad no idea if it was going to
work.
I'd only seen it work in themovies and I stuck out my thumb.
But no one would stop.
(05:08):
And that day I went down.
Have you ever gone down to aplace you've never been before?
Down to a place of despair anddown to a place of shame.
I did that, but I also climbedback up after being out there
(05:31):
for what felt like hours.
I was picked up by a fire truckand taken to the hospital, and
that's when I first started tocrawl.
And then as my confidence grew,that crawl turned into a walk.
And then what felt like adecade, but it was only two
(05:53):
years into a run.
And now I stand proud and tall.
I'm not ashamed of that storybecause what it taught me is
just how resilient I am.
I've learned that there's an Iin illness and a we in wellness.
(06:15):
I didn't know that.
And I've learned that Mentalwell being, my mental being, had
to be my number one priority.
And that created a mission and acommitment in me to want to help
others do the same.
That's it.
Sarah (06:35):
Wow,
Michele (06:36):
it.
Sarah (06:38):
you could say to that story and it's just amazing how
far that you've come and yourwillingness to share that with
all of us is and with all thepeople that you've reached.
It's amazing because there's nota lot of people who want to do
that and have the love for otherpeople to share their story to
help them.
So thank you for doing this fordoing what you do for all the
(07:03):
people that you help.
Christine, any, I don't, I wantto give you the chance to talk.
Cause I end up talking too muchon these.
Chris (07:09):
No you're much better.
You're much better at these thanI am for sure.
I think Michelle, I think thatthe part of your story that I
like the best because I've heardit once before, is the way that
you come out that liking theperson that you are and wanting
to share, liking the person thatyou are.
And.
(07:29):
Just to relate it back to alittle bit of, my story.
When Olivia had her suicideattempt and she ended up
inpatient for 10 days, when shecame out, we we sat in the car.
I had to give her a ride homebecause she was only 14, right?
So we sit in the car and I'mlike, you want to talk about it?
And she's I don't even know whoI am.
(07:49):
I don't know how I can talkabout this.
She's I don't know who you are.
I don't know how we interact.
And the process of building backup from that down, down place is
crazy.
So inspirational.
And I talked to her thisafternoon and she had a rough
week.
She's got midterms and soccer'sa bit of a bitch right now.
(08:10):
And she's just going through it.
Seasonal depression starting,all of this stuff.
And she's thank you for forhelping me be resilient.
for helping me understand a wayto not let the stuff that's
bothering me bother me in such away that pulls me back down into
(08:30):
that place.
So I love the message offiguring out who you are again,
and figuring out that the onlyway you go from the place of
just being a shell really, andbeing the person you want to be
is building that kind ofResilience to stuff that happens
to you and every time you haveto go through that cycle it's
(08:52):
reinforced that Yeah, things aregoing to get tough and things
are going to get bad, but I cankeep going through it So I
appreciate that part.
Michele (09:01):
I'm so happy that she's doing so well and I'm so happy
that she thanked you for beingthat support for her.
But when it comes to resilience,if you look it up in the
dictionary, there are twodefinitions of resilience.
(09:24):
And one says, Something alongthe lines of the capacity to
withstand Hardship, I think it'sthe capacity to withstand
hardship.
And the 2nd definition is theability of an object to spring
(09:48):
back into shape, but I likecombining them because so many
people, when they think ofresilience, they think of.
Bouncing back that it's bouncingback from difficult situations,
but it's actually bouncingforward.
It's using that lesson to propelyou forward.
(10:13):
forward.
Resilience is not something thatyou're born with.
It's a skill.
But even more than that, I thinkit's a choice.
I think we have that choice asto whether we're going to use an
experience to keep us stuck inthat despair that I mentioned,
in that space, or use it as away to propel us forward and
(10:39):
help us grow.
Chris (10:41):
Yeah, 100 percent.
Couldn't agree.
Couldn't agree more like You canhave all the tools you can have
all the medication you can haveall the therapy But if you're
not really willing to put in theeffort to look at how to best
use those things and how to moveforward if you don't understand
that.
Yeah, those things are there tohelp you, but it's still going
(11:03):
to be up to you to do a lot ofthat work.
Yeah and choosing to, to do thatwork and to move forward, to
take the lessons that life isgiving you, even if they suck,
like a lot of them just suck.
Sorry, Sarah.
Sarah (11:17):
Why are you sorry?
Chris (11:19):
Because you giggled at me.
Sarah (11:22):
No, I just smiled because it's true.
Michele (11:24):
But some people don't even realize, some people miss
that lesson entirely.
because they're so committed tostaying where they are and
staying in that space that theycan't even grasp the lesson
because they're just committedto, to, to being at that's where
(11:49):
they are.
I
Sarah (11:52):
so talking about and I'm already going to go off script.
I'm looking at my questions andI'm already asking one that's
not even there.
But talking about love foryourself And everything that you
do, Michelle, and working withyour clients and helping people,
how do you make sure that youcontinue your mental well being
journey?
(12:13):
I know when we had talked beforeyou had made a statement about a
recovery of sorts, like it's notmental illness or you're looking
more at mental being and.
Yeah.
And being in more of a recoverystate.
So I guess the question is, howdo you make sure that you're
always staying on top of yourown mental wellbeing?
Yeah,
Michele (12:35):
And between mental health and mental wellness, and
they get lumped together anawful lot.
They're interchanged, but I seethem distinctly different.
Mental health, in my opinion,involves doctors, therapy,
medication.
It's about the diagnosis.
(12:56):
Or struggle and mental wellness,on the other hand, is the
journey.
It's a lifelong process thathelps us build resilience and
grow.
You don't have to have a mentalhealth challenge to strive for
mental wellness.
(13:17):
For some people, it's eatinggetting enough sleep meditation.
But it's even more than that forme.
It's a complete alignment of thebody and mind and an awareness
of our thoughts.
Because if we think, I thinkit's, I'm going to get these
(13:38):
numbers wrong, but I think it'ssomething like.
65, 000 thoughts a day and 75percent of them are negative and
95 percent are repetitive.
So that doesn't really give us achance to be aware of them.
(14:02):
We can easily latch on to athought without even realizing
that we're doing it.
And that thought just becomes.
Part of us and so one of thethings that I do meditation.
I saw you smile, Sarah.
So are you a big meditator?
Sarah (14:25):
not yet.
It's something that we juststarted talking about, or we've
actually been talking about forquite some time on throughout
our regular episodes.
We just started reading anddiscussing 10 percent Happier by
Dan Harris.
And it's all about his quietingthe voice in his mind and his
journey.
To meditation and I myself, Ifeel a lot like Dan Harris did
(14:48):
in the beginning and feel like Ihave no hope in meditation.
So it's something that I reallywant to explore, but I'm already
against myself.
So we're supposed to actuallystart tomorrow.
Tomorrow's our first day ofmeditation.
We have committed to doing fiveminutes of meditation.
So that I just wrote it down,Michelle meditation.
(15:11):
So I was going to ask you forsuggestions on how you take this
extremely loud and nonstop mindand quiet it.
Because I find that sooverwhelmingly challenging.
Michele (15:26):
I would love to share with you very briefly about
meditation because I meditateevery day, but when I started,
it was after I came out of aclinical depression and everyone
kept saying, you need tomeditate.
You need to meditate.
I suggest meditation.
(15:47):
And.
I sat there, I sat cross legged,I put my hands like this, I
played the music and my mindsped up and started thinking
about what I was going to havefor dinner, a conversation with
a colleague, and I thought,
Sarah (16:05):
Yep.
Michele (16:06):
this doesn't work.
And then I went to a meditationclass.
It was 20 people sitting in thedark by candlelight.
Around a table and someone tookus through a guided meditation
and then you spent the rest ofthe class talking about it.
(16:27):
Somebody would walk in the doorlate and I was sitting there, my
eyes wide open, waving.
Come on over here.
There's a seat over here.
It didn't work.
But in that class, I heardsomeone talk about nature as
their form of meditation, awalking meditation.
(16:50):
And this person said when he wasin the great outdoors, his mind
was completely silent.
He wasn't thinking aboutanything.
I made a note of it.
I didn't necessarily believe it,but I made a note of it.
And then I realized when I waswalking my dog one day.
That I wasn't thinking aboutanything.
(17:12):
I wasn't worried about thefuture.
I wasn't thinking about thepast.
I was fully in that moment.
And nature became my form ofmeditation for a number of
years.
Then eventually I got intoguided meditations and now I'm
(17:33):
practicing silent meditations,which I find very challenging.
But all it really isfamiliarizing yourself with the
present moment.
So it's not trying to empty yourmind of those thoughts.
It's observing them and lettingthem pass like it's a parade.
(17:55):
So you're thinking about whatyou're going to have for dinner.
Don't latch on to that thought.
Let it go right by.
And it's just being in the hereand now.
Everyone thinks it's, completelyemptying the mind, but I haven't
found that to be true.
It's more observing and lettinggo.
Sarah (18:17):
That makes a little more sense than just emptying it
because I don't I really, Ican't just stop it.
But yeah that, it's a lot ofwhat we've been reading,
Christine, the
Chris (18:29):
All of it.
All of it.
Sarah (18:31):
it pass and being in the moment
Michele (18:33):
it's more observing your thoughts and not getting
absorbed by them.
So not.
Not getting observed by them,but just observing them as they
go.
Sarah (18:49):
so what am I going to have for dinner that passes and
then I go on to the next slot.
I don't do, what am I going tohave for dinner?
Okay.
Chris (18:54):
We should have chicken.
Do we have broccoli?
We should get broccoli.
What if cheese?
Broccoli and cheese, they'regood.
Should we have potatoes?
I bet there's potatoes in there.
My thighs look like potatoes.
Yeah, that's, just don't dothat.
Sarah (19:09):
Do you have any what's the word?
Recommendations for like apps oranything to use to guide us and
help us get started.
Michele (19:20):
I love Insight Timer.
Are you familiar with InsightTimer?
They have, I'm pretty sure it'sfree.
They have,
Sarah (19:30):
what I like.
Michele (19:32):
A wide variety of different meditations on tons of
different things.
Tara who we went to collegewith, has a meditation, has
meditations of her own.
on Insight Timer.
But there's tons on stress,depression, confidence.
(19:55):
There's also many masterclassesin there.
And I listen to it every nightfor the music.
I listen to a very low, I need.
I can't go to sleep to sound,but I can't go to sleep to
silence either.
Like I need just a little bit ofsomething.
Sarah (20:16):
Yep.
Yeah, I'm the same way.
And I just had a brilliantthought because I can't just let
them pass by.
Chris (20:23):
It's a
Sarah (20:25):
I'm not actively meditating now, so I feel like I
can go ahead and do that.
The Peloton, we have the Pelotondownstairs and they actually
have meditation classes.
Michele (20:34):
Absolutely.
Chris (20:36):
There you go.
Sarah (20:36):
use that.
Chris (20:38):
It's everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Everybody I know is verysuccessful.
Everyone that I went to collegewith is very successful at
helping other people with theirmental illnesses.
Michele (20:49):
Lovely shout outs.
But it's, wait, you just saidsomething I was going to comment
on.
The meditation
Chris (20:57):
everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Sarah (20:57):
It's everywhere.
Michele (21:00):
Oh, but it's when you don't meditate on a regular
basis, you can put so muchpressure on yourself to do it.
Or am I doing it?
Or this isn't right.
Or maybe I should be doing thisand there is no right or wrong
(21:21):
way.
It's however, for some people,it's prayer.
For other people, it might bemantras.
It's, it looks different foreveryone.
So I think we get caught up inyou have to sit cross legged and
you have to have incense and youhave to have your hands open and
(21:44):
you don't have to do that.
It's just getting quiet.
Sarah (21:47):
Yeah.
I think that everybody that'sexactly what everybody sees.
That's what Dan Harris saw.
That's what I see.
That's how we get delayed, inour starting of it, but there's
just entirely too much evidenceof the awesome things that
meditation does for your mentalwellbeing out there for us to
ignore it any longer.
Like it's, there's somethingthere.
(22:08):
Science says so.
Michele (22:10):
Absolutely.
So meditation is something thatI do.
Tapping is also something I do.
Are you familiar with tapping?
Either one of you?
Sarah (22:21):
Do you tap dance?
Cause I'd like you to do that.
That would be fun.
Michele (22:25):
No.
Could you imagine
Sarah (22:27):
Okay.
Michele (22:27):
me,
Sarah (22:28):
In a little tutu,
Michele (22:29):
tap dancing actually?
Sarah (22:32):
with a
Chris (22:32):
Yes, I could.
Michelle.
Yes, I could.
It makes my eye twitch a littlebit to imagine you tap dancing,
but I can see it In, in anynumber of situations or
locations at Bethany
Michele (22:45):
That's a problem.
Chris (22:46):
The round, round building, like in the front
steps of there.
So tapping, tell us about it,Michelle.
Michele (22:55):
it's a stress reduction tool and it balances the energy
systems of the body.
So there's tons of videos onlineabout tapping, but basically it
works on the same points thatacupuncture does, but instead of
using needles, you're using yourfingers.
(23:18):
like two fingers and you tap onthese nine meridian points of
the body while saying, the ideais you're tapping out negative
emotion and tapping in positiveones.
So it starts on the karate choppart of the hand and I'd say
(23:41):
something like, this lack ofconfidence.
don't feel confident.
And then I go, and it's the topof the head, the top of the eye,
the side of the eye, under theeye, the nose, the chin, right
under your collarbone.
(24:02):
And then for women, right underthe arm, under the bra strap.
And then I like to end on thewrist, not everybody does that,
but you go through a negative.
Like calling out the negativeemotion.
And then I would tap in and say,I am so confident.
(24:24):
And then I would go through thewhole thing several times of
confidence, but it's not just,there's tons of videos out there
on everything from.
Tapping to find your true loveto get abundance, but therapists
use it with their clients intrauma.
(24:47):
Students teachers have used itwith their students for test
anxiety and athletes have usedit before going out.
So it's been used in a widevariety of things.
But anyway, the point of thismonologue is I tap after I
(25:08):
meditate every day.
Sarah (25:11):
Okay.
So that's something you do dailyas a part of the meditation
Michele (25:15):
After my meditation, I have a tapping routine.
So I go through a meditation.
Then I go through a tappingroutine after I do that.
Sarah (25:25):
Okay.
I'll have to look into that.
Cause I've never heard of that.
So that sounds interestingbecause I can see myself tapping
and laughing at myself.
This is where I have to beserious and I'm not good at it
because
Michele (25:40):
If you're doing it by yourself, looking it up online,
I think I have, I used to have atapping video on my website.
I don't think I still do.
But you can find tapping videosonline.
And if you're by yourself, andyou find one that appeals to
(26:02):
you.
And you're all alone.
You may not laugh at yourself asyou go through it.
The only one, when I firstlearned it, the only one that I
got that, that I was a littlebit like, okay.
was the under the arm one goinglike this.
Sarah (26:24):
yeah,
Michele (26:25):
That one, I felt a little ridiculous.
And obviously if you're in themiddle of something or you're
stressed out or you're in themiddle of something and you're
out somewhere, you can't sitthere and go like this.
But what you can do is justfocus on the breath.
and tap on the chest.
(26:46):
And even that can have a calmingeffect and bring someone back in
their body in a moment ofstress.
Sarah (26:56):
Yeah, I'm definitely, I, okay.
Let's do one thing at a time.
Let's start with meditation.
Michele (27:03):
Start with meditation.
Sarah (27:05):
And then we can explore other things.
Michele (27:07):
Absolutely.
I
Sarah (27:09):
it's good to know there are other things too.
So this is exciting.
This is a fun little journey forus.
We'll keep you posted, Michelle,on how it goes.
Chris (27:18):
You're allowed to laugh too.
Like you can tap and giggle atthe same time.
I would imagine that
Michele (27:23):
Google.
Sarah (27:24):
Yeah, I don't think, I think it's I'm imagining that
tapping is like meditation andall of this, you have to make it
your own and what's going tohelp you.
And I get like making it yourown is the most important thing.
So
Chris (27:38):
right.
Sitting crisscross applesaucewas just impossible for me when
I was trying meditation duringCOVID because I just was too
chubby to sit crisscrossapplesauce.
So I would have to sit criss,one leg out.
And I was like, I guess that'sgood enough.
That's good enough.
But yeah, these are great.
Michelle, what else you got forus?
(27:59):
I
Michele (28:00):
meditation, tapping.
What else do I do to maintain mymental well being?
I've also I'm, journaling is abig one for me.
Journaling has always been, I'vekept a journal since I was a
sophomore in high school, soI've always written and I think
(28:20):
that became my love of writingstarted from that all those
years ago.
But breath work is another onethat I am, do.
I've tried different types ofbreath work and I'm still
familiarizing myself with itbecause there are moments when
(28:45):
I'm doing it that I feel likeI'm going to have a panic
attack.
I'm not, but it has that, itbrings about that same,
Sarah (28:58):
Yeah.
Michele (28:59):
just I'm trying to get better at that.
Sarah (29:02):
Okay.
If you're trying to get betterat that, I'm going to that, but
that's years down the road forme years.
Chris (29:09):
think you're better than you think, knucklehead.
Michele (29:11):
I think you're better than you think too.
I think you're going to surpriseyourself tomorrow when you
meditate.
Sarah (29:17):
I'm excited about it.
Like I was I think a coupleepisodes we brought it up and I
was like, Oh shit, my hands aresweating.
Like just talking about it, butnow I'm excited about it.
We'll see.
And I think Sissy, you weresupposed to send me something.
Chris (29:31):
Oh, yeah, I forgot
Sarah (29:32):
I'll check out insight timer though.
When we're done here, I'll checkthat
Michele (29:36):
There's tons of different, tons of
Sarah (29:38):
I'll check up my Peloton app.
and see what's in there.
I always forget about that.
There's so much shit in there.
That's awesome.
All right.
How about we take on one ofthese questions that I actually
wrote down on this piece ofpaper?
Let's go.
You are trained in the masterymethod.
What exactly is the masterymethod and why is this the
(29:59):
method you chose to pursue?
I'm assuming that there areother methods.
Michele (30:04):
There are other methods.
When I first Set out to be acoach.
Learned a lot of differentthings.
I learned a little bit aboutneuro linguistic programming,
which deals with a subconsciousmind.
I learned about hypnosis, but Iwas very I was still figuring
(30:31):
out how I wanted to servepeople.
And.
The hypnosis didn't set with mebecause what am I going to do?
Hypnotize you to be mentallywell?
Like I just, I didn't feel, Ididn't feel aligned with it like
I thought I would.
At the time.
(30:52):
So the mastery method deals withfive areas.
It's somatic, which is mindbody, your mind body connection,
unconscious mindset, somatic,emotional mindset, behavioral.
(31:18):
I'm missing one.
Unconscious.
And it focuses on all those.
A lot of people just come fromthe mindset, so just work with
you on changing your mindset,but this really looks at a
variety of different issuesemotionally, behaviorally,
unconsciously, and somatically,and how all of those play a part
(31:44):
In what it is, you're trying toachieve.
So my programs are broken downin there, either 3 or 6 month
programs, and they're reallybroken down into 3 phases, which
is awareness.
Which is what we talked aboutearlier.
You have to know what thosestories are the ones that are
(32:08):
keeping you that keep playing inthe mind.
So it's 1st, becoming aware ofthose thoughts that are tripping
you up.
And then it's really acceptance.
So digging a little deeper andseeking where those stories came
from and how they came about.
(32:29):
And then the last part isaligned action, but you're
taking action every step of theway.
So there's a big difference intaking action and taking aligned
action because you can.
Take action in doing anything.
(32:49):
I'm going to exercise.
I'm going to, but is it alongthe lines and congruent with
where you're trying to go?
What your goal is where you'retrying to get to.
It's taking aligned action, soit's awareness, acceptance,
aligned action.
Chris (33:05):
This is amazing because michelle, sarah and I have been
working on ourselves so to speakfor a little bit and part of how
we've been going about that isreading books, right?
The subtle art of not giving afuck.
I was like, this is an amazingbook.
I love This orange book that hasa swear word on it And I bought
in the airport so I could readit on the plane like a badass.
(33:28):
So that one is all about findingout who you are.
Like what are your values,right?
What's the stuff that you reallyshould give a fuck about and
what should you just cast aside?
Then we shifted into atomichabits and that's like that
action part.
But it's hard to, it's hard toknow what actions to take.
What do I, what tiny things do Ichange if I don't know what my
(33:50):
values are?
So if I'm not lining up myactions with who I want to be as
a person, then this is a, it's awasted kind of activity.
And then sliding, carrying onthat from meditation and trying
to give yourself the space to dothe action, right?
Like for me, that's whatmeditation should do, is give me
(34:10):
the ability to slow the thoughtsdown long enough to be like, Hey
this rational, impulsive thingthat you're about to do, maybe
take a heartbeat and think aboutwhether or not you need to eat a
whole pie'cause you don't likeand The I could eat a whole pie
though.
Fucking delicious.
Michele (34:27):
but you have a really good point in that.
A lot of times, you don't knowyou have to know where you're
going, who you are, and what thegoal is where you're going,
where you want to go.
And a lot of people, strugglewith that.
(34:48):
They don't know where they wantto go.
So that's part of the work isfiguring that out is figuring
out where you want to go and howwe can get there better, faster.
Sarah (35:06):
So far we've discovered that the books we read don't
give you that answer.
And I, it's very disappointingthat nobody is telling me
exactly where I'm going.
Apparently I have to do Thatmyself.
Chris (35:20):
Upsetting,
Michele (35:21):
Good book.
The subtle art of not giving afuck is a good book.
You are a badass.
Have you guys read that one?
Sarah (35:29):
Sissy, I think you gave me that one.
I think it's in a drawer.
I never read it.
I'll add That to my list.
Michele (35:35):
That's another good one.
But there's, also trying tothink the book that I'd love.
Happy pocket full of money.
Is that the name of it?
Chris (35:50):
That sounds like something on a Chinese food
menu.
But
Michele (35:57):
money.
Chris (35:58):
I will take that.
Michele (36:01):
going to have to text you, I'm going to have to let
you know the name of this book,but it's a phenomenal book and
it's not about money.
The book is not about money.
It's about being abundant andbecoming abundant and living
abundantly by breaking that downinto gratitude and abundance.
(36:26):
And I, why can't I remember thename of this book?
It's going
Sarah (36:29):
You got it.
You got it.
It's a happy pocket full ofmoney.
that's the name of it.
Michele (36:34):
the book I meant though.
Sarah (36:36):
Okay.
Oh, okay.
That's a book, but that's
Michele (36:39):
know that's a book, but I don't think that's the book I
meant.
Chris (36:44):
Quit trying to Google it, Sarah.
Michelle, I think I interruptedyou.
Do you have more mastery stuffto talk about?
I feel like I jumped in and waslike, we like that.
Yeah.
Michele (36:52):
no, I know.
I'm good.
Chris (36:55):
Alright.
Sarah (36:57):
The thought I had was, so you were talking about the
master method and your style ofcoaching.
And in my head, I'm thinkingthat sounds so awesome.
I feel like I want to do that.
Do that job.
But of course I'm not, I have towork on myself first.
Do you have any clients of yoursthat have gone on to be coaches
themselves?
Michele (37:17):
Not my current clients, not my current clients.
Have they gone on to be coachesthemselves?
Sarah (37:25):
I just thought that was I, feel like everybody should
come out of this.
Wow, this is amazing.
I want to do it.
Michele (37:31):
It was, I don't know what year it was, 2019, 2018,
2019.
And I was at a crossroads.
I had ended up that job at thenational magazine that I love so
much and quit writing for awhile and ended up working for a
(37:54):
variety of different, Governmentcontractors.
And I was just very far awayfrom what I wanted to do.
So I hired a life coach.
I got a life coach and it wasin.
So my, your question, have I hadany clients become a life coach?
My answer to that is no, but itwas my work with my life coach
(38:21):
that made me want to go on thisjourney.
Yeah, and you don't, so it's notthe, I'm trained in the mastery
method.
I would never ask a client to gosomewhere that I haven't gone
(38:41):
myself.
So everything that I learned inthe mastery method.
I went through, I experienced.
I would never ask someone to gosomewhere that, that I
personally, that I haven't gonemyself.
In some of these exercises andmodalities.
(39:07):
But it's not.
There's such a differencebetween coaching and therapy and
a lot of people don't real, alot of people don't know what
coaches do and you don't, it'sforward thinking, it's forward
looking where therapy looks alot and we look at where you've
(39:30):
been, but we look at whereyou've been in order to get
where you're going.
And I think therapy can send,tend to look at the past and
look at the childhoods maybemore intensely than, I do.
But we do, we also go there, butit's only in service to where
(39:54):
you're going and your goals.
Sarah (39:57):
Yeah.
Chris (39:57):
and just so you guys know I would never want to be a life
coach.
That's too much people.
Too
Michele (40:04):
Too much.
people,
Chris (40:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, there's that.
I like to sit in front of thecomputer and look at
spreadsheets.
That's my jam.
Sarah (40:12):
to do that too, but this sound, this just sounds so
Chris (40:15):
Uplifting and positive?
Sarah (40:17):
Like I, again, I have a lot of work to do on myself.
I'm not going to go out and
Chris (40:21):
It's still Michelle's
Sarah (40:22):
school tomorrow.
But it just, it's, it just seemslike such an uplifting thing to
do.
And once you dig yourself out ofthat, once you dig yourself out,
you're crawling and you'relearning who you are.
Especially when you've gone downpretty far, it's to me, this is
(40:44):
a great way to share thatjourney with somebody else and
help them lift themselves out.
And I feel like if somebodycould do it for me, I would want
to do it for someone else.
Michele (40:59):
It is, let me preface, it is the best profession and
it's so fulfilling.
That's the biggest thing is it'sso fulfilling.
But let me say, it doesn't meanthat you have it all figured
out, that you have the answersand you just have to be a few
steps ahead of who you'recoaching.
(41:21):
So like when You're in the thirdgrade and you look up at the
fourth graders like the fourthgraders got it going on.
You just have to be a little bitahead.
And I am a coach who always hasa coach.
I have a coach.
Sarah (41:41):
Sense.
Yeah,
Michele (41:42):
I'm always.
Want to be growing and evolvingand changing and learning.
So what I learn, I can then takeback and share with the people
I'm helping.
Sarah (41:58):
yeah, that bit that makes sense.
And yeah, that's all I'll say.
Sis, what's, what did you haveto say?
You want me to be Olivia'scoach?
Chris (42:06):
No, you've already done enough, thank you.
We're good.
On Aunt Sarah.
Thank you.
She is already the small versionof you, and it's terrifying.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, so being a step ahead islike when I read the book, and
then you don't read the book.
Sarah (42:23):
I don't like, but I don't like that.
I want you to, I just want youto be on the book level that I
am, or at least act like you'reon the book level as me.
So you should work on that.
I'll be a great, You should workon that,
Michele (42:35):
on that.
Get back to me.
Sarah (42:39):
Y'all be a great coach.
I could hear people listeningthis what the fuck is she
talking about?
What kind of coach would she be?
That's exactly what she'd say.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Like that?
yeah, okay.
Thanks for bringing me back toreality.
Chris (42:52):
You're amazing.
Sarah (42:54):
Okay, one.
Chris (42:55):
somewhere in there too.
Sarah (42:57):
Oh, I like it.
I have one more question oncoaching.
So you offer a 60 minute free.
What is it called?
Free clarity call.
What can someone expect in thatcall, or at least can you give
us an idea of what that call isall about?
Maybe I want to make a call that
Michele (43:19):
In the clarity call, so the clarity call is really
figuring out.
So 1 of the questions, and I'llgo ahead and give you a thought
provoking.
Consideration.
Say it is December 31st, 2025,and you were to look back on the
(43:44):
year and say, that was the bestyear of my life.
What happens?
What would you want to happen inthat year?
Sarah (43:59):
makes my heart palpitate because I don't have a good
answer.
I guess there's no good answer.
Michele (44:06):
It's whatever it is for you.
It can be, it's anything.
If you, what would make thatyear feel like that was a great
year?
Sarah (44:20):
Yeah.
And it's, it is thoughtprovoking.
Cause I feel like, but then Ifeel like if I take too much
time, then I'm probably justmaking something up that sounds
good.
Chris (44:32):
You'll know if you're making it up.
Michele (44:34):
up.
You want, like what was, and youdon't have to tell me, but I go
with when I said that The firstthing that came to your mind or
the thing that you want to say,but you don't think you can say,
(44:55):
or
Sarah (44:56):
came, the first thing that came to mind, I'll answer
if that's okay.
Cause the first thing that cameto mind, which I thought was
selfish and was like but maybenot is our podcast.
I'd like to make that asuccessful for us.
Chris (45:11):
Yes.
Sarah (45:11):
saying that out loud kind of makes me want to vomit
because we continue to do this.
We're not making any money.
We continue to say that we'redoing this just for us, which we
really are, but.
It's also been a super rewardingthing for us.
And that reward comes exactlyfrom what we were talking about.
(45:32):
If we can just get we, we get anemail here and there from
somebody that we've helped insome way, we've opened them up
to going to a therapist.
We've gotten several emails likethat.
We've gotten several commentsthat we've helped people move on
and deal with things and get thehelp that they need.
And that's.
If I can make this a full timejob, that's what I would want
(45:54):
that year to look like.
I would want it to be makingthis what we do and helping
people and making thissuccessful and being able to do
this all the time because I feellike I don't put enough into it.
I feel like Sissy puts in a bitmore.
But it just, yeah, I'd like todo a lot more with what we're
(46:14):
doing here.
I think we're doing greatthings, but we don't have the
time because of our real jobs toreally push it.
So there, that was long.
Sorry.
Michele (46:26):
what would it mean?
What would it mean if thathappened?
What would that mean?
If that, if it was successful,you're doing this full time.
What does that mean for you?
Sarah (46:39):
And this is where I got caught up.
Cause the first thing I want tosay sounds really dumb.
It makes my heart happy.
And It's an emotional thing.
Now I'm going to cry, but,
Chris (46:51):
Oh, no.
Sarah (46:52):
but that's what it is.
It's,
Chris (46:54):
Your first responses are neither selfish nor dumb.
Dummy
Sarah (46:58):
but that's what it does.
That's what it's an emotionalthing.
And being able to share my storyand that helping other people
and being able to make that whatI do.
That would be, I think that'swhat it does.
It makes my heart happy.
Damn you, Michelle.
Michele (47:19):
you one more question.
What's stopping you?
What's stopping you from doingthat?
Sarah (47:29):
I'm good.
I'm good.
I have, I just did one littlemeltdown.
It's fine.
It's fine.
What's stopping us from it's
Chris (47:35):
par for the course for this show.
Michele (47:37):
Stopping you.
I'm talking to you.
What's stopping you?
Chris (47:47):
Okay, two breakdowns.
Sarah (47:49):
I've had so many ideas of what I want to do with my life
and they've all been wrong.
Chris (47:56):
Of course they have.
Sorry, I'll just sit behind youand say encouraging things.
Everyone feels that way.
Until you find the one that'sright.
Sarah (48:04):
Yeah, I, that, and it's not like I can quit my job.
There's always a, Money aspectto it and finding the time to
put into it that would get us tothe next level.
So those are the things thatstopped me.
But that initial one is big one.
Michele (48:28):
So you feel like you've made a lot of wrong choices?
Sarah (48:33):
Feel like the wrong choices I made are part of my
story, which makes it me.
And I hate when people are like,I have no regrets because it
made me, like there's a ton ofshit I'd go back and do
different.
But those big choices, I don'tthink that I would change even
though they've led me to a pointwhere I'm 46 and still trying to
(48:54):
figure out what I want to bewhen I grow up.
I wouldn't say they were wrongchoices or bad choices, it just
didn't work out the way I wantedit to.
It didn't work out the way I sawit.
You're scaring me the way you'relooking at me, Michelle.
Michele (49:10):
No, I'm thinking, and when I think I
Sarah (49:15):
sorry.
I feel bad.
I, cause I took over the callwith
Chris (49:18):
That's okay.
Sarah (49:19):
Clarity call with you.
Michele (49:21):
and you are more than welcome to give me a call for a
clarity call.
You both are clarity call isabsolutely free and it's just to
delve deeper and really figureout where you are and where you
want to go and how you can getthere.
Chris (49:41):
see Michelle can help you with your values.
Sarah (49:44):
Yeah.
And that's, that's where Ialways get stuck.
That's where the book stops andit doesn't tell me how to do it.
Chris (49:52):
It tells you how to do it, you just don't want to.
Sarah (49:54):
Okay, it doesn't tell me exactly what to do and it
doesn't give me a step by stepexactly what I need to move on.
Chris (49:59):
Write down
Michele (50:00):
not going to give you step by step exactly what
Sarah (50:04):
know.
Michele (50:06):
but I will, in coaching or in my coaching, there are
exercises and there are thingsthat help you explore.
Because the answers are in you.
You got that answer like that.
Like, when I asked thosequestions, something came to
(50:29):
your mind like that.
All the answers are in you.
And in coaching, we just helpyou, guide you, to uncover those
answers.
Alright,
Sarah (50:46):
I read things that ask these questions, because I feel
like I've read things that askthese same questions.
I'm meh.
I go through in my head and I'mlike, alright, whatever, next
page.
Like I don't really, I'm notforced.
I don't know if that's the word.
I'm not guided to dig deeper.
And so that's something thatcoaching would probably help.
Chris (51:10):
You're so smart.
Sarah (51:11):
All right.
I'm done.
I'm I've cried.
I'm now sleepy.
I don't have, yeah.
Huh.
Chris (51:20):
All right, I got a couple of questions.
So
Michele (51:23):
go for it, Gaster.
Chris (51:24):
Michelle a lot of what a lot of what sarah and I are
trying to do on the podcast isget people to accept that
Working on who you are as aperson is part of that mental
wellness.
That's part of You Enjoying agood life and enjoying a being
the person that you want to bethe person who who wants to get
(51:45):
up out of bed and who, goes outand does the things that they
want to do.
So I think having you on hereand helping us talk about that
wellness.
Transcripts provided in thisvideo are made possible by the
members of the Resource Club atwww.
(52:10):
resourceclub.
org.
mental health challenges thatyou have, right?
Because people have forever beenshying away from Oh, I don't
want anyone to know about mydiagnosis.
I don't want anyone to knowabout how I struggle with this
or how I struggle with that.
And I think a big part of whatwe'd like to get the guests take
(52:32):
on is how do we change that?
How do we change that as a groupof people who are trying to push
forward the idea that there'snothing wrong with going to the
hospital and having to take careof yourself mentally the same
way you would go to the hospitaland get yourself taken care of
if you have a broken arm?
How do we move things forwardthere?
Michele (52:51):
It's interesting because no there's a lot of
things that come to mind.
And one of the things I talkabout a lot is self stigma,
because it's something that Isuffered with for such a long
time.
And even though.
I have been in what I would callmental health recovery for the
(53:15):
last few decades.
And all I mean by that is Ihaven't been manic or depressed
or been in the hospital oranything along those lines.
So that to me is mental healthrecovery.
So even though For two decades,I've been there, still, under
(53:38):
the surface, just a little bit.
There's been that, I didn'trealize it was still present.
We, so many people that suffercan hold on to that shame and
not feeling good enough.
Or, In my case, I lowered myexpectations of myself when I
(54:03):
lost that job because my mentalhealth was so For three years,
from 2002 to 2005, once a year Iwas back on the psych ward.
I went through this three yearperiod that I couldn't break
(54:24):
that cycle, and I really startedto wonder, is this what the rest
of my life is gonna look like?
And as a result of that.
I lowered my expectations ofmyself and my place in the
world.
We talk about our goals and ourdreams.
I pushed mine down.
(54:46):
I no longer felt that perhaps Icould achieve them.
And even though it had been twodecades, It was only through my
own work, my own personaldevelopment work that I realized
that was still present andmoreover that it wasn't true,
(55:07):
that it was only that I wasnever broken.
It was only my perception thatwas broken.
And when I realized that andrealized that, I can do that
too.
I see you and I admire you.
There's no reason I can't dothat.
(55:29):
I can do that and have thecourage to go after these things
again and dust off those dreamsand make them 10 times bigger.
But when we talk about that andwe talk about what we can do as
a society, even today.
(55:51):
And it's been 2 decades, buteven today, I was at a
conference last weekend and thespeaker was talking about
something and made 2 references.
And in 1, she was talking andshe referred to something as
cray cray.
(56:11):
And everybody laughed.
And then there was anothercomment.
about someone being unstable.
These comments were not directedat me.
These comments, everybodylaughed at.
They're funny comments.
I may have smiled, but even allthis time later, there was a
(56:33):
little, just a tiny little turnin my stomach.
Just a little bit, just a tinylittle bit So it's being mindful
of the language we use, beingmindful of the way we talk about
mental illness.
And that also goes in the waypeople that have it talk about
(56:57):
themselves.
So for example, There are a lotof healers that believe whatever
you put on the other side of Iam, you tend to embody.
So I will never say I amdepressed or I am bipolar.
Instead, I would say I'm someonewho has Depression.
(57:23):
I'm someone who has and it'ssuch a subtle shift, but when
you do it long enough, it startsto have a positive impact.
You are not depression.
You are not your illness.
And when you say that, you'retaking that on.
(57:44):
So watching the language we usewhen we talk about mental
illness as a society andwatching the way we talk about
mental illness when we aresomeone that has that illness
and are talking about ourselves.
Chris (58:02):
No, I love that.
I think it's so important.
It, just to share a little more,when Olivia came out of the
psych ward, she was like, don'ttell anybody, don't tell
anybody.
And I was like, it's your storyto tell.
I won't tell anybody.
But the only thing worse thanhaving everyone know that you
were in the psych ward is beingthe only person that knows you
were in the psych ward.
You gotta share your story.
(58:23):
You gotta kind of claim who youare.
And when you're ready to dothat, we'll do it.
And until then we'll keep itbetween us and we'll keep
working on it.
And it, now she's yeah, this ismy story.
This is what I, this is what Ifaced and this is how I came out
on the other side of it.
And this is how I continue tobattle as somebody who faces
these issues.
Yeah, I, I really look forwardto being in a world where these
(58:45):
sorts of challenges anddisorders are treated as
challenges and disorders, not assomething that's a character
flaw.
Because it's not a characterflaw to have a spicy neuro typ,
neuro atypical brain.
It's a challenge.
And it's not something that,that makes you less or makes
you.
Not worthy of Having all of thedreams that you could possibly
(59:09):
have.
So yeah, I appreciate that takeon it
Michele (59:12):
I just did an Instagram post today for World Mental
Health Day and on it, in it, Italked about You are not alone.
So it's when we share our storythat it's cut in half.
We think that when we're goingthrough something, or when we're
(59:34):
in the middle of something, orwhen we're uncomfortable, we
feel like we're the only person.
And that's when And as I said inthe post and I'll speak for
myself, when I feel that way, Iwant to isolate.
I don't want to be aroundpeople.
I want to be by myself.
I want to get through this.
(59:55):
It's I got this.
I can do this.
I got this.
You say, I got this.
But.
It's when we share our storythat we realize we're not alone.
And when you know that on acellular level, that's when your
story, there's power in sharingyour experience, and it can be
(01:00:18):
used to help somebody and totruly know that you're never
alone.
Chris (01:00:27):
That's the that's the whole basic message of the
entire podcast Is that there's aton of us who go through this
stuff every day.
There's a ton of us who haveWho, who want to talk about it
and want to share it and want tobe part of your community and
want to be the person that youcan look to and be like, Hey,
sorry about the spicy brain.
Sorry that you sorry that youhave challenges and sorry that
(01:00:49):
you have people who have, gonethrough.
Horrible, bad places in theirlife, but you're, you have us
and we'll at least make youlaugh once or twice an episode
and you can look to that as alittle bit of comfort, but yeah,
that's the, that's, there's somuch power in that kind of
community and extending it out.
I think that is why Sarah and Icontinue to reach out to our
(01:01:10):
tens and tens of listeners everyweek.
Michele (01:01:13):
The other thing, too, and that you've you're doing in
doing that, the laughter is soimportant because you feel like
You can't laugh, but when youlaugh, you were.
It, when you smile, you'resending signals to your brain.
(01:01:38):
So when you laugh, as soon asyou laugh, you realize it's
going to be okay.
As soon as you laugh, you knowit's going to be okay.
Chris (01:01:51):
100%.
That is the whole basis of ourfamily and the whole basis of
everything that we're trying todo here.
Yeah, I think, just to wrap itup, Michelle, do you have
anything any advice for ourlisteners who this is the
question I ask all the time.
We've got people who are goingthrough like pretty big
challenges who have gone throughpretty big challenges and then
there's those of us who are onthe sidelines.
It's we're just like supportingour friends and relatives who
(01:02:15):
have a lot of challenges.
Do you have any advice for kindof those of us helping to
support people going throughthose dark times?
Michele (01:02:23):
The biggest thing that appreciated the most were the
people who just sat with me whenI was in my depression, I, and
we didn't talk about that.
But I went through a clinicaldepression.
I was off work for 2 months.
(01:02:44):
I barely got out of bed.
I didn't want to talk.
I had nothing to say.
I didn't want to talk toanybody.
I didn't have anything to say.
And those people who came andjust sat with me, it was okay
(01:03:05):
that I didn't have anything tosay.
You didn't try to fix it.
You didn't try to ask what waswrong.
You just were present.
And that meant so there's somuch that there's such a power.
In knowing somebody is there, oragain, back to my you are never
(01:03:29):
alone, when someone is justbeside you, you're not trying to
make it better, you're nottrying to ask what's wrong,
you're just there.
You don't have to say anything.
When I I had an aunt that usedto show up on her lunch hour
(01:03:49):
every day to try to get me to gofor a walk when I wouldn't get
out of bed.
And I would hear the doorbelland I'd look out the window and
I'd see her and I'd duck downand hope she didn't see me.
And I'd wait until she left.
I did not want to talk to her.
But she came back every singleday.
And one of those days, I openedthe door.
(01:04:12):
And we went for a walk.
We didn't talk on those walks,but my legs moved.
I felt the sun on my face.
Those were my first steps towardhealing.
And I appreciated so much thatshe didn't.
It was okay that we just walkedin silence.
(01:04:34):
It was okay that I didn't haveanything to say.
It was okay.
She was just there and thatmeant the world to me.
Chris (01:04:46):
Yeah, I love that.
It, because, it I've never beensad like that.
Sarah's been sad like that,Olivia's been sad like that,
lots of people have been sadlike that, but I've never been
sad like that.
And it's hard for someone whodoesn't have that experience to,
not want to fix it.
Just just maybe try not beingsad.
Just maybe do that.
(01:05:07):
But to hear that all it takesfor us to help you in Support
you during those times is justto be there is great news
because I can do that all dayLike it's the talking where I
run into challenges.
So For me, this is happy.
I can show up and knock on yourdoor all you want Like we can go
for a walk.
We can hang out we can pet cats.
Whatever.
I'm in and it's so nice to youknow understand That's enough.
(01:05:31):
Sometimes that's enough just tobe there and to make sure that
you know you're not alone.
And it's hard for me to realizethat, that's enough, because I'm
just a natural person that justwants to fix it.
Let me fix it.
Do you want to talk about it?
We should talk about it.
I'm
Sarah (01:05:44):
Also it's your daughter that you're, it's your daughter
is your main focus and That'shard to not fix that.
So
Chris (01:05:55):
It was a
Sarah (01:05:55):
always going to be your gut instinct to try to fix it.
But just know that, that.
You don't have to.
Chris (01:06:03):
It was a lesson, and just in general, you can, when I
think to go back to the stigmapiece of it, it's, we've got a,
we've got a couple of friendswho have lost children to
suicide and their stories areheartbreaking, right?
Not they're completelyheartbreaking, but compounding
it is people don't know how totalk to them about it and don't
know how to.
(01:06:24):
To support them and to the pointwhere these guys are in the
grocery store and people whohave known them for years and
years are just like, and willtake off in the other direction
because they don't want to havean interaction and have it be
awkward.
And it, that's hard on theperson that's doing that, I
would imagine, and that's hardon, on them because they're like
I wouldn't mind talking aboutit.
(01:06:45):
I don't mind not talking aboutit.
I just want to interact withpeople like normal at the
grocery store.
Michele (01:06:51):
And the biggest thing that would make a difference is,
and obviously I've had, I'velost friends to suicide, but I
don't, I've never lost a child.
But in those situations, justsaying to someone, I don't know
what to say, but I want you toknow I'm here.
(01:07:15):
And that's all you have to say.
I don't know the words.
I'm not going to pretend I do.
I can't imagine, but I'm here.
And that's all you have to say.
Gaster
Chris (01:07:35):
you take the whispers that happen behind closed doors
and you take the, the gossipypart of it and be like, nah, we
don't have to do that, y'all.
I know that I'm suffering andyou know that I'm suffering and
we might as well just talk aboutit.
You know give each other alittle nod about it.
It's fine.
Sarah Do you have anythingbecause I think I've squeezed
all I can squeeze out ofMichelle kapats here,
Sarah (01:07:54):
Feel like she's got hours to go.
I feel like we could do thisforever.
But instead, we'll go
Chris (01:08:01):
do want her to get a rest
Sarah (01:08:03):
then we will we'll go ahead and wrap it up.
In our show notes, we will putMichelle's website, which is
michellecapotts.
com.
Pretty simple.
One L in the Michelle.
I always get it confused.
Always.
Chris (01:08:18):
Tres French.
Tres
Sarah (01:08:19):
know why, I don't know why, but as you saw the the 60
minute free clarity call
Chris (01:08:27):
That's going to be an emotional thing.
Sarah (01:08:29):
Yeah, check it out.
Check it out.
Check it out.
We will put all the links in theshow notes and just a huge thank
you to you, Michelle, for allthat you do for your clients,
for all of us in general.
And thank you so much for takingthe time to hang out with us,
crazy gaster girls and join usfor our little journey here
Michele (01:08:50):
It was so much fun.
Thank you guys for having me.
Always.
Sarah (00:05):
the intro.
So there you go.
Chris (00:09):
Sorry.
Sarah (00:09):
to bare bones banter with a gaster girls.
We have a very special guestthis evening.
Michelle Kapats is here to joinus.
Welcome to the show, Michelle
Michele (00:19):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Sarah (00:21):
and Michelle is with us.
She is a transformational coachand international speaker.
That sounds so fancy.
I love it.
Before,
Chris (00:29):
just also jump in and say that Michelle is my friend from
college and I loved her andadmired her and I continue to
love her and admire her.
Kapats! It's so good to haveyou.
Michele (00:40):
Thank you.
I love you, Gaster.
Sarah (00:43):
I was fortunate enough to meet Michelle when I was in high
school.
Or was I in I was little and shewas super fancy to me then.
I always thought she was thecoolest.
So anyway,
Michele (00:55):
here more often.
I'm just getting so manycompliments.
Sarah (00:59):
there you go.
To make you feel even better.
I want to open up with sometestimonials from your website,
from some of your clients, andthen we'll get started.
Once I read these, I'm going tohand it over to you, Michelle,
to give us your story and tellus a bit more about how you got
where you are today.
The first testimonial is fromDavid in Sacramento and he
states, Michelle is rich in bothwisdom, compassion, and endears
(01:23):
herself to those she serves.
I can't imagine anyone moreskilled and selfless in the
world of healing practices.
next is from Tara in Annapolis,Michelle's transformational
coaching is life changing andlife fulfilling.
I was stuck professionally dueto old thoughts, patterns, and
habits.
Michelle was able to help me digdeep to release these old ways
(01:44):
of living and thinking so that Icould step into my personal
power and have the confidenceneeded to create and live all of
my dreams.
Her coaching program is so worththe time and money that you put
into it, as you will reap therewards tenfold.
And lastly, I chose this onebecause my work has a plant in
Alexandria, Louisiana.
(02:05):
So I thought that was cool.
Michele (02:06):
Ah,
Sarah (02:07):
And I just liked it.
This is Robert from Alexandria,Louisiana.
And he says, Michelle has astory, which is both captivating
and inspirational.
I was engaged and enlightened byMichelle's talk concerning
mental illness, alcoholism, andinteraction with those whom We
care about most importantly, sheemphasizes the fact that there
(02:28):
are no words to be said thatwill outperform the act of just
being present for those in need.
She is a most incredible andoutstanding woman.
And I wanted to lead, I thoughtthat was.
That's a good one to end withand lead into your story since
Robert had mentioned it and Ialso love the mention of just
(02:48):
the act of being present.
And I think we forget howimportant that is, but I'll hand
it over to you, Michelle.
Go for it.
Michele (02:55):
Okay.
Thank you.
It warms my heart to hear those.
And it's in the last decade, Ihave supported more than a
thousand men and women to reachtheir goals.
And I'm amazed that my wordshave been published in national
publications that reach 20million subscribers globally.
(03:19):
But the thing I'm most proud ofis the way my life has
transformed from someone who wasuncomfortable in her own skin
into someone that truly lovesthemself today.
Because that wasn't always thecase.
(03:39):
It was the summer of 2005 let mepreface that by saying at that
time, I was working at anational magazine.
I had overcome a clinicaldepression.
My boyfriend and I had justmoved in together.
I was in my early thirties.
(04:00):
And I was checking off the boxesin my head.
I felt like my life was justtaking off.
But on a sweltering hot Augustday, I found myself wandering
back and forth, wondering, whatam I going to do?
(04:21):
What am I going to do?
My heart was beating about aminute.
The only thing I could hear wasthe cars whizzing by me on the
Route 68 interstate.
My Tasmanian Devil boxer shortswere sliding off my sweaty legs.
I used my t shirt to wipe thesweat from my brow, not even
(04:45):
caring that I was exposing mybreasts, and the hot gravel
beneath me pierced my bare feet.
And then, I did something that Ihad no idea if it was going to
work.
I'd only seen it work in themovies and I stuck out my thumb.
But no one would stop.
(05:08):
And that day I went down.
Have you ever gone down to aplace you've never been before?
Down to a place of despair anddown to a place of shame.
I did that, but I also climbedback up after being out there
(05:31):
for what felt like hours.
I was picked up by a fire truckand taken to the hospital, and
that's when I first started tocrawl.
And then as my confidence grew,that crawl turned into a walk.
And then what felt like adecade, but it was only two
(05:53):
years into a run.
And now I stand proud and tall.
I'm not ashamed of that storybecause what it taught me is
just how resilient I am.
I've learned that there's an Iin illness and a we in wellness.
(06:15):
I didn't know that.
And I've learned that Mentalwell being, my mental being, had
to be my number one priority.
And that created a mission and acommitment in me to want to help
others do the same.
That's it.
Sarah (06:35):
Wow,
Michele (06:36):
it.
Sarah (06:38):
you could say to that story and it's just amazing how
far that you've come and yourwillingness to share that with
all of us is and with all thepeople that you've reached.
It's amazing because there's nota lot of people who want to do
that and have the love for otherpeople to share their story to
help them.
So thank you for doing this fordoing what you do for all the
(07:03):
people that you help.
Christine, any, I don't, I wantto give you the chance to talk.
Cause I end up talking too muchon these.
Chris (07:09):
No you're much better.
You're much better at these thanI am for sure.
I think Michelle, I think thatthe part of your story that I
like the best because I've heardit once before, is the way that
you come out that liking theperson that you are and wanting
to share, liking the person thatyou are.
And.
(07:29):
Just to relate it back to alittle bit of, my story.
When Olivia had her suicideattempt and she ended up
inpatient for 10 days, when shecame out, we we sat in the car.
I had to give her a ride homebecause she was only 14, right?
So we sit in the car and I'mlike, you want to talk about it?
And she's I don't even know whoI am.
(07:49):
I don't know how I can talkabout this.
She's I don't know who you are.
I don't know how we interact.
And the process of building backup from that down, down place is
crazy.
So inspirational.
And I talked to her thisafternoon and she had a rough
week.
She's got midterms and soccer'sa bit of a bitch right now.
(08:10):
And she's just going through it.
Seasonal depression starting,all of this stuff.
And she's thank you for forhelping me be resilient.
for helping me understand a wayto not let the stuff that's
bothering me bother me in such away that pulls me back down into
(08:30):
that place.
So I love the message offiguring out who you are again,
and figuring out that the onlyway you go from the place of
just being a shell really, andbeing the person you want to be
is building that kind ofResilience to stuff that happens
to you and every time you haveto go through that cycle it's
(08:52):
reinforced that Yeah, things aregoing to get tough and things
are going to get bad, but I cankeep going through it So I
appreciate that part.
Michele (09:01):
I'm so happy that she's doing so well and I'm so happy
that she thanked you for beingthat support for her.
But when it comes to resilience,if you look it up in the
dictionary, there are twodefinitions of resilience.
(09:24):
And one says, Something alongthe lines of the capacity to
withstand Hardship, I think it'sthe capacity to withstand
hardship.
And the 2nd definition is theability of an object to spring
(09:48):
back into shape, but I likecombining them because so many
people, when they think ofresilience, they think of.
Bouncing back that it's bouncingback from difficult situations,
but it's actually bouncingforward.
It's using that lesson to propelyou forward.
(10:13):
forward.
Resilience is not something thatyou're born with.
It's a skill.
But even more than that, I thinkit's a choice.
I think we have that choice asto whether we're going to use an
experience to keep us stuck inthat despair that I mentioned,
in that space, or use it as away to propel us forward and
(10:39):
help us grow.
Chris (10:41):
Yeah, 100 percent.
Couldn't agree.
Couldn't agree more like You canhave all the tools you can have
all the medication you can haveall the therapy But if you're
not really willing to put in theeffort to look at how to best
use those things and how to moveforward if you don't understand
that.
Yeah, those things are there tohelp you, but it's still going
(11:03):
to be up to you to do a lot ofthat work.
Yeah and choosing to, to do thatwork and to move forward, to
take the lessons that life isgiving you, even if they suck,
like a lot of them just suck.
Sorry, Sarah.
Sarah (11:17):
Why are you sorry?
Chris (11:19):
Because you giggled at me.
Sarah (11:22):
No, I just smiled because it's true.
Michele (11:24):
But some people don't even realize, some people miss
that lesson entirely.
because they're so committed tostaying where they are and
staying in that space that theycan't even grasp the lesson
because they're just committedto, to, to being at that's where
(11:49):
they are.
I
Sarah (11:52):
so talking about and I'm already going to go off script.
I'm looking at my questions andI'm already asking one that's
not even there.
But talking about love foryourself And everything that you
do, Michelle, and working withyour clients and helping people,
how do you make sure that youcontinue your mental well being
journey?
(12:13):
I know when we had talked beforeyou had made a statement about a
recovery of sorts, like it's notmental illness or you're looking
more at mental being and.
Yeah.
And being in more of a recoverystate.
So I guess the question is, howdo you make sure that you're
always staying on top of yourown mental wellbeing?
Yeah,
Michele (12:35):
And between mental health and mental wellness, and
they get lumped together anawful lot.
They're interchanged, but I seethem distinctly different.
Mental health, in my opinion,involves doctors, therapy,
medication.
It's about the diagnosis.
(12:56):
Or struggle and mental wellness,on the other hand, is the
journey.
It's a lifelong process thathelps us build resilience and
grow.
You don't have to have a mentalhealth challenge to strive for
mental wellness.
(13:17):
For some people, it's eatinggetting enough sleep meditation.
But it's even more than that forme.
It's a complete alignment of thebody and mind and an awareness
of our thoughts.
Because if we think, I thinkit's, I'm going to get these
(13:38):
numbers wrong, but I think it'ssomething like.
65, 000 thoughts a day and 75percent of them are negative and
95 percent are repetitive.
So that doesn't really give us achance to be aware of them.
(14:02):
We can easily latch on to athought without even realizing
that we're doing it.
And that thought just becomes.
Part of us and so one of thethings that I do meditation.
I saw you smile, Sarah.
So are you a big meditator?
Sarah (14:25):
not yet.
It's something that we juststarted talking about, or we've
actually been talking about forquite some time on throughout
our regular episodes.
We just started reading anddiscussing 10 percent Happier by
Dan Harris.
And it's all about his quietingthe voice in his mind and his
journey.
To meditation and I myself, Ifeel a lot like Dan Harris did
(14:48):
in the beginning and feel like Ihave no hope in meditation.
So it's something that I reallywant to explore, but I'm already
against myself.
So we're supposed to actuallystart tomorrow.
Tomorrow's our first day ofmeditation.
We have committed to doing fiveminutes of meditation.
So that I just wrote it down,Michelle meditation.
(15:11):
So I was going to ask you forsuggestions on how you take this
extremely loud and nonstop mindand quiet it.
Because I find that sooverwhelmingly challenging.
Michele (15:26):
I would love to share with you very briefly about
meditation because I meditateevery day, but when I started,
it was after I came out of aclinical depression and everyone
kept saying, you need tomeditate.
You need to meditate.
I suggest meditation.
(15:47):
And.
I sat there, I sat cross legged,I put my hands like this, I
played the music and my mindsped up and started thinking
about what I was going to havefor dinner, a conversation with
a colleague, and I thought,
Sarah (16:05):
Yep.
Michele (16:06):
this doesn't work.
And then I went to a meditationclass.
It was 20 people sitting in thedark by candlelight.
Around a table and someone tookus through a guided meditation
and then you spent the rest ofthe class talking about it.
(16:27):
Somebody would walk in the doorlate and I was sitting there, my
eyes wide open, waving.
Come on over here.
There's a seat over here.
It didn't work.
But in that class, I heardsomeone talk about nature as
their form of meditation, awalking meditation.
(16:50):
And this person said when he wasin the great outdoors, his mind
was completely silent.
He wasn't thinking aboutanything.
I made a note of it.
I didn't necessarily believe it,but I made a note of it.
And then I realized when I waswalking my dog one day.
That I wasn't thinking aboutanything.
(17:12):
I wasn't worried about thefuture.
I wasn't thinking about thepast.
I was fully in that moment.
And nature became my form ofmeditation for a number of
years.
Then eventually I got intoguided meditations and now I'm
(17:33):
practicing silent meditations,which I find very challenging.
But all it really isfamiliarizing yourself with the
present moment.
So it's not trying to empty yourmind of those thoughts.
It's observing them and lettingthem pass like it's a parade.
(17:55):
So you're thinking about whatyou're going to have for dinner.
Don't latch on to that thought.
Let it go right by.
And it's just being in the hereand now.
Everyone thinks it's, completelyemptying the mind, but I haven't
found that to be true.
It's more observing and lettinggo.
Sarah (18:17):
That makes a little more sense than just emptying it
because I don't I really, Ican't just stop it.
But yeah that, it's a lot ofwhat we've been reading,
Christine, the
Chris (18:29):
All of it.
All of it.
Sarah (18:31):
it pass and being in the moment
Michele (18:33):
it's more observing your thoughts and not getting
absorbed by them.
So not.
Not getting observed by them,but just observing them as they
go.
Sarah (18:49):
so what am I going to have for dinner that passes and
then I go on to the next slot.
I don't do, what am I going tohave for dinner?
Okay.
Chris (18:54):
We should have chicken.
Do we have broccoli?
We should get broccoli.
What if cheese?
Broccoli and cheese, they'regood.
Should we have potatoes?
I bet there's potatoes in there.
My thighs look like potatoes.
Yeah, that's, just don't dothat.
Sarah (19:09):
Do you have any what's the word?
Recommendations for like apps oranything to use to guide us and
help us get started.
Michele (19:20):
I love Insight Timer.
Are you familiar with InsightTimer?
They have, I'm pretty sure it'sfree.
They have,
Sarah (19:30):
what I like.
Michele (19:32):
A wide variety of different meditations on tons of
different things.
Tara who we went to collegewith, has a meditation, has
meditations of her own.
on Insight Timer.
But there's tons on stress,depression, confidence.
(19:55):
There's also many masterclassesin there.
And I listen to it every nightfor the music.
I listen to a very low, I need.
I can't go to sleep to sound,but I can't go to sleep to
silence either.
Like I need just a little bit ofsomething.
Sarah (20:16):
Yep.
Yeah, I'm the same way.
And I just had a brilliantthought because I can't just let
them pass by.
Chris (20:23):
It's a
Sarah (20:25):
I'm not actively meditating now, so I feel like I
can go ahead and do that.
The Peloton, we have the Pelotondownstairs and they actually
have meditation classes.
Michele (20:34):
Absolutely.
Chris (20:36):
There you go.
Sarah (20:36):
use that.
Chris (20:38):
It's everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Everybody I know is verysuccessful.
Everyone that I went to collegewith is very successful at
helping other people with theirmental illnesses.
Michele (20:49):
Lovely shout outs.
But it's, wait, you just saidsomething I was going to comment
on.
The meditation
Chris (20:57):
everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Sarah (20:57):
It's everywhere.
Michele (21:00):
Oh, but it's when you don't meditate on a regular
basis, you can put so muchpressure on yourself to do it.
Or am I doing it?
Or this isn't right.
Or maybe I should be doing thisand there is no right or wrong
(21:21):
way.
It's however, for some people,it's prayer.
For other people, it might bemantras.
It's, it looks different foreveryone.
So I think we get caught up inyou have to sit cross legged and
you have to have incense and youhave to have your hands open and
(21:44):
you don't have to do that.
It's just getting quiet.
Sarah (21:47):
Yeah.
I think that everybody that'sexactly what everybody sees.
That's what Dan Harris saw.
That's what I see.
That's how we get delayed, inour starting of it, but there's
just entirely too much evidenceof the awesome things that
meditation does for your mentalwellbeing out there for us to
ignore it any longer.
Like it's, there's somethingthere.
(22:08):
Science says so.
Michele (22:10):
Absolutely.
So meditation is something thatI do.
Tapping is also something I do.
Are you familiar with tapping?
Either one of you?
Sarah (22:21):
Do you tap dance?
Cause I'd like you to do that.
That would be fun.
Michele (22:25):
No.
Could you imagine
Sarah (22:27):
Okay.
Michele (22:27):
me,
Sarah (22:28):
In a little tutu,
Michele (22:29):
tap dancing actually?
Sarah (22:32):
with a
Chris (22:32):
Yes, I could.
Michelle.
Yes, I could.
It makes my eye twitch a littlebit to imagine you tap dancing,
but I can see it In, in anynumber of situations or
locations at Bethany
Michele (22:45):
That's a problem.
Chris (22:46):
The round, round building, like in the front
steps of there.
So tapping, tell us about it,Michelle.
Michele (22:55):
it's a stress reduction tool and it balances the energy
systems of the body.
So there's tons of videos onlineabout tapping, but basically it
works on the same points thatacupuncture does, but instead of
using needles, you're using yourfingers.
(23:18):
like two fingers and you tap onthese nine meridian points of
the body while saying, the ideais you're tapping out negative
emotion and tapping in positiveones.
So it starts on the karate choppart of the hand and I'd say
(23:41):
something like, this lack ofconfidence.
don't feel confident.
And then I go, and it's the topof the head, the top of the eye,
the side of the eye, under theeye, the nose, the chin, right
under your collarbone.
(24:02):
And then for women, right underthe arm, under the bra strap.
And then I like to end on thewrist, not everybody does that,
but you go through a negative.
Like calling out the negativeemotion.
And then I would tap in and say,I am so confident.
(24:24):
And then I would go through thewhole thing several times of
confidence, but it's not just,there's tons of videos out there
on everything from.
Tapping to find your true loveto get abundance, but therapists
use it with their clients intrauma.
(24:47):
Students teachers have used itwith their students for test
anxiety and athletes have usedit before going out.
So it's been used in a widevariety of things.
But anyway, the point of thismonologue is I tap after I
(25:08):
meditate every day.
Sarah (25:11):
Okay.
So that's something you do dailyas a part of the meditation
Michele (25:15):
After my meditation, I have a tapping routine.
So I go through a meditation.
Then I go through a tappingroutine after I do that.
Sarah (25:25):
Okay.
I'll have to look into that.
Cause I've never heard of that.
So that sounds interestingbecause I can see myself tapping
and laughing at myself.
This is where I have to beserious and I'm not good at it
because
Michele (25:40):
If you're doing it by yourself, looking it up online,
I think I have, I used to have atapping video on my website.
I don't think I still do.
But you can find tapping videosonline.
And if you're by yourself, andyou find one that appeals to
(26:02):
you.
And you're all alone.
You may not laugh at yourself asyou go through it.
The only one, when I firstlearned it, the only one that I
got that, that I was a littlebit like, okay.
was the under the arm one goinglike this.
Sarah (26:24):
yeah,
Michele (26:25):
That one, I felt a little ridiculous.
And obviously if you're in themiddle of something or you're
stressed out or you're in themiddle of something and you're
out somewhere, you can't sitthere and go like this.
But what you can do is justfocus on the breath.
and tap on the chest.
(26:46):
And even that can have a calmingeffect and bring someone back in
their body in a moment ofstress.
Sarah (26:56):
Yeah, I'm definitely, I, okay.
Let's do one thing at a time.
Let's start with meditation.
Michele (27:03):
Start with meditation.
Sarah (27:05):
And then we can explore other things.
Michele (27:07):
Absolutely.
I
Sarah (27:09):
it's good to know there are other things too.
So this is exciting.
This is a fun little journey forus.
We'll keep you posted, Michelle,on how it goes.
Chris (27:18):
You're allowed to laugh too.
Like you can tap and giggle atthe same time.
I would imagine that
Michele (27:23):
Google.
Sarah (27:24):
Yeah, I don't think, I think it's I'm imagining that
tapping is like meditation andall of this, you have to make it
your own and what's going tohelp you.
And I get like making it yourown is the most important thing.
So
Chris (27:38):
right.
Sitting crisscross applesaucewas just impossible for me when
I was trying meditation duringCOVID because I just was too
chubby to sit crisscrossapplesauce.
So I would have to sit criss,one leg out.
And I was like, I guess that'sgood enough.
That's good enough.
But yeah, these are great.
Michelle, what else you got forus?
(27:59):
I
Michele (28:00):
meditation, tapping.
What else do I do to maintain mymental well being?
I've also I'm, journaling is abig one for me.
Journaling has always been, I'vekept a journal since I was a
sophomore in high school, soI've always written and I think
(28:20):
that became my love of writingstarted from that all those
years ago.
But breath work is another onethat I am, do.
I've tried different types ofbreath work and I'm still
familiarizing myself with itbecause there are moments when
(28:45):
I'm doing it that I feel likeI'm going to have a panic
attack.
I'm not, but it has that, itbrings about that same,
Sarah (28:58):
Yeah.
Michele (28:59):
just I'm trying to get better at that.
Sarah (29:02):
Okay.
If you're trying to get betterat that, I'm going to that, but
that's years down the road forme years.
Chris (29:09):
think you're better than you think, knucklehead.
Michele (29:11):
I think you're better than you think too.
I think you're going to surpriseyourself tomorrow when you
meditate.
Sarah (29:17):
I'm excited about it.
Like I was I think a coupleepisodes we brought it up and I
was like, Oh shit, my hands aresweating.
Like just talking about it, butnow I'm excited about it.
We'll see.
And I think Sissy, you weresupposed to send me something.
Chris (29:31):
Oh, yeah, I forgot
Sarah (29:32):
I'll check out insight timer though.
When we're done here, I'll checkthat
Michele (29:36):
There's tons of different, tons of
Sarah (29:38):
I'll check up my Peloton app.
and see what's in there.
I always forget about that.
There's so much shit in there.
That's awesome.
All right.
How about we take on one ofthese questions that I actually
wrote down on this piece ofpaper?
Let's go.
You are trained in the masterymethod.
What exactly is the masterymethod and why is this the
(29:59):
method you chose to pursue?
I'm assuming that there areother methods.
Michele (30:04):
There are other methods.
When I first Set out to be acoach.
Learned a lot of differentthings.
I learned a little bit aboutneuro linguistic programming,
which deals with a subconsciousmind.
I learned about hypnosis, but Iwas very I was still figuring
(30:31):
out how I wanted to servepeople.
And.
The hypnosis didn't set with mebecause what am I going to do?
Hypnotize you to be mentallywell?
Like I just, I didn't feel, Ididn't feel aligned with it like
I thought I would.
At the time.
(30:52):
So the mastery method deals withfive areas.
It's somatic, which is mindbody, your mind body connection,
unconscious mindset, somatic,emotional mindset, behavioral.
(31:18):
I'm missing one.
Unconscious.
And it focuses on all those.
A lot of people just come fromthe mindset, so just work with
you on changing your mindset,but this really looks at a
variety of different issuesemotionally, behaviorally,
unconsciously, and somatically,and how all of those play a part
(31:44):
In what it is, you're trying toachieve.
So my programs are broken downin there, either 3 or 6 month
programs, and they're reallybroken down into 3 phases, which
is awareness.
Which is what we talked aboutearlier.
You have to know what thosestories are the ones that are
(32:08):
keeping you that keep playing inthe mind.
So it's 1st, becoming aware ofthose thoughts that are tripping
you up.
And then it's really acceptance.
So digging a little deeper andseeking where those stories came
from and how they came about.
(32:29):
And then the last part isaligned action, but you're
taking action every step of theway.
So there's a big difference intaking action and taking aligned
action because you can.
Take action in doing anything.
(32:49):
I'm going to exercise.
I'm going to, but is it alongthe lines and congruent with
where you're trying to go?
What your goal is where you'retrying to get to.
It's taking aligned action, soit's awareness, acceptance,
aligned action.
Chris (33:05):
This is amazing because michelle, sarah and I have been
working on ourselves so to speakfor a little bit and part of how
we've been going about that isreading books, right?
The subtle art of not giving afuck.
I was like, this is an amazingbook.
I love This orange book that hasa swear word on it And I bought
in the airport so I could readit on the plane like a badass.
(33:28):
So that one is all about findingout who you are.
Like what are your values,right?
What's the stuff that you reallyshould give a fuck about and
what should you just cast aside?
Then we shifted into atomichabits and that's like that
action part.
But it's hard to, it's hard toknow what actions to take.
What do I, what tiny things do Ichange if I don't know what my
(33:50):
values are?
So if I'm not lining up myactions with who I want to be as
a person, then this is a, it's awasted kind of activity.
And then sliding, carrying onthat from meditation and trying
to give yourself the space to dothe action, right?
Like for me, that's whatmeditation should do, is give me
(34:10):
the ability to slow the thoughtsdown long enough to be like, Hey
this rational, impulsive thingthat you're about to do, maybe
take a heartbeat and think aboutwhether or not you need to eat a
whole pie'cause you don't likeand The I could eat a whole pie
though.
Fucking delicious.
Michele (34:27):
but you have a really good point in that.
A lot of times, you don't knowyou have to know where you're
going, who you are, and what thegoal is where you're going,
where you want to go.
And a lot of people, strugglewith that.
(34:48):
They don't know where they wantto go.
So that's part of the work isfiguring that out is figuring
out where you want to go and howwe can get there better, faster.
Sarah (35:06):
So far we've discovered that the books we read don't
give you that answer.
And I, it's very disappointingthat nobody is telling me
exactly where I'm going.
Apparently I have to do Thatmyself.
Chris (35:20):
Upsetting,
Michele (35:21):
Good book.
The subtle art of not giving afuck is a good book.
You are a badass.
Have you guys read that one?
Sarah (35:29):
Sissy, I think you gave me that one.
I think it's in a drawer.
I never read it.
I'll add That to my list.
Michele (35:35):
That's another good one.
But there's, also trying tothink the book that I'd love.
Happy pocket full of money.
Is that the name of it?
Chris (35:50):
That sounds like something on a Chinese food
menu.
But
Michele (35:57):
money.
Chris (35:58):
I will take that.
Michele (36:01):
going to have to text you, I'm going to have to let
you know the name of this book,but it's a phenomenal book and
it's not about money.
The book is not about money.
It's about being abundant andbecoming abundant and living
abundantly by breaking that downinto gratitude and abundance.
(36:26):
And I, why can't I remember thename of this book?
It's going
Sarah (36:29):
You got it.
You got it.
It's a happy pocket full ofmoney.
that's the name of it.
Michele (36:34):
the book I meant though.
Sarah (36:36):
Okay.
Oh, okay.
That's a book, but that's
Michele (36:39):
know that's a book, but I don't think that's the book I
meant.
Chris (36:44):
Quit trying to Google it, Sarah.
Michelle, I think I interruptedyou.
Do you have more mastery stuffto talk about?
I feel like I jumped in and waslike, we like that.
Yeah.
Michele (36:52):
no, I know.
I'm good.
Chris (36:55):
Alright.
Sarah (36:57):
The thought I had was, so you were talking about the
master method and your style ofcoaching.
And in my head, I'm thinkingthat sounds so awesome.
I feel like I want to do that.
Do that job.
But of course I'm not, I have towork on myself first.
Do you have any clients of yoursthat have gone on to be coaches
themselves?
Michele (37:17):
Not my current clients, not my current clients.
Have they gone on to be coachesthemselves?
Sarah (37:25):
I just thought that was I, feel like everybody should
come out of this.
Wow, this is amazing.
I want to do it.
Michele (37:31):
It was, I don't know what year it was, 2019, 2018,
2019.
And I was at a crossroads.
I had ended up that job at thenational magazine that I love so
much and quit writing for awhile and ended up working for a
(37:54):
variety of different, Governmentcontractors.
And I was just very far awayfrom what I wanted to do.
So I hired a life coach.
I got a life coach and it wasin.
So my, your question, have I hadany clients become a life coach?
My answer to that is no, but itwas my work with my life coach
(38:21):
that made me want to go on thisjourney.
Yeah, and you don't, so it's notthe, I'm trained in the mastery
method.
I would never ask a client to gosomewhere that I haven't gone
(38:41):
myself.
So everything that I learned inthe mastery method.
I went through, I experienced.
I would never ask someone to gosomewhere that, that I
personally, that I haven't gonemyself.
In some of these exercises andmodalities.
(39:07):
But it's not.
There's such a differencebetween coaching and therapy and
a lot of people don't real, alot of people don't know what
coaches do and you don't, it'sforward thinking, it's forward
looking where therapy looks alot and we look at where you've
(39:30):
been, but we look at whereyou've been in order to get
where you're going.
And I think therapy can send,tend to look at the past and
look at the childhoods maybemore intensely than, I do.
But we do, we also go there, butit's only in service to where
(39:54):
you're going and your goals.
Sarah (39:57):
Yeah.
Chris (39:57):
and just so you guys know I would never want to be a life
coach.
That's too much people.
Too
Michele (40:04):
Too much.
people,
Chris (40:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, there's that.
I like to sit in front of thecomputer and look at
spreadsheets.
That's my jam.
Sarah (40:12):
to do that too, but this sound, this just sounds so
Chris (40:15):
Uplifting and positive?
Sarah (40:17):
Like I, again, I have a lot of work to do on myself.
I'm not going to go out and
Chris (40:21):
It's still Michelle's
Sarah (40:22):
school tomorrow.
But it just, it's, it just seemslike such an uplifting thing to
do.
And once you dig yourself out ofthat, once you dig yourself out,
you're crawling and you'relearning who you are.
Especially when you've gone downpretty far, it's to me, this is
(40:44):
a great way to share thatjourney with somebody else and
help them lift themselves out.
And I feel like if somebodycould do it for me, I would want
to do it for someone else.
Michele (40:59):
It is, let me preface, it is the best profession and
it's so fulfilling.
That's the biggest thing is it'sso fulfilling.
But let me say, it doesn't meanthat you have it all figured
out, that you have the answersand you just have to be a few
steps ahead of who you'recoaching.
(41:21):
So like when You're in the thirdgrade and you look up at the
fourth graders like the fourthgraders got it going on.
You just have to be a little bitahead.
And I am a coach who always hasa coach.
I have a coach.
Sarah (41:41):
Sense.
Yeah,
Michele (41:42):
I'm always.
Want to be growing and evolvingand changing and learning.
So what I learn, I can then takeback and share with the people
I'm helping.
Sarah (41:58):
yeah, that bit that makes sense.
And yeah, that's all I'll say.
Sis, what's, what did you haveto say?
You want me to be Olivia'scoach?
Chris (42:06):
No, you've already done enough, thank you.
We're good.
On Aunt Sarah.
Thank you.
She is already the small versionof you, and it's terrifying.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, so being a step ahead islike when I read the book, and
then you don't read the book.
Sarah (42:23):
I don't like, but I don't like that.
I want you to, I just want youto be on the book level that I
am, or at least act like you'reon the book level as me.
So you should work on that.
I'll be a great, You should workon that,
Michele (42:35):
on that.
Get back to me.
Sarah (42:39):
Y'all be a great coach.
I could hear people listeningthis what the fuck is she
talking about?
What kind of coach would she be?
That's exactly what she'd say.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Like that?
yeah, okay.
Thanks for bringing me back toreality.
Chris (42:52):
You're amazing.
Sarah (42:54):
Okay, one.
Chris (42:55):
somewhere in there too.
Sarah (42:57):
Oh, I like it.
I have one more question oncoaching.
So you offer a 60 minute free.
What is it called?
Free clarity call.
What can someone expect in thatcall, or at least can you give
us an idea of what that call isall about?
Maybe I want to make a call that
Michele (43:19):
In the clarity call, so the clarity call is really
figuring out.
So 1 of the questions, and I'llgo ahead and give you a thought
provoking.
Consideration.
Say it is December 31st, 2025,and you were to look back on the
(43:44):
year and say, that was the bestyear of my life.
What happens?
What would you want to happen inthat year?
Sarah (43:59):
makes my heart palpitate because I don't have a good
answer.
I guess there's no good answer.
Michele (44:06):
It's whatever it is for you.
It can be, it's anything.
If you, what would make thatyear feel like that was a great
year?
Sarah (44:20):
Yeah.
And it's, it is thoughtprovoking.
Cause I feel like, but then Ifeel like if I take too much
time, then I'm probably justmaking something up that sounds
good.
Chris (44:32):
You'll know if you're making it up.
Michele (44:34):
up.
You want, like what was, and youdon't have to tell me, but I go
with when I said that The firstthing that came to your mind or
the thing that you want to say,but you don't think you can say,
(44:55):
or
Sarah (44:56):
came, the first thing that came to mind, I'll answer
if that's okay.
Cause the first thing that cameto mind, which I thought was
selfish and was like but maybenot is our podcast.
I'd like to make that asuccessful for us.
Chris (45:11):
Yes.
Sarah (45:11):
saying that out loud kind of makes me want to vomit
because we continue to do this.
We're not making any money.
We continue to say that we'redoing this just for us, which we
really are, but.
It's also been a super rewardingthing for us.
And that reward comes exactlyfrom what we were talking about.
(45:32):
If we can just get we, we get anemail here and there from
somebody that we've helped insome way, we've opened them up
to going to a therapist.
We've gotten several emails likethat.
We've gotten several commentsthat we've helped people move on
and deal with things and get thehelp that they need.
And that's.
If I can make this a full timejob, that's what I would want
(45:54):
that year to look like.
I would want it to be makingthis what we do and helping
people and making thissuccessful and being able to do
this all the time because I feellike I don't put enough into it.
I feel like Sissy puts in a bitmore.
But it just, yeah, I'd like todo a lot more with what we're
(46:14):
doing here.
I think we're doing greatthings, but we don't have the
time because of our real jobs toreally push it.
So there, that was long.
Sorry.
Michele (46:26):
what would it mean?
What would it mean if thathappened?
What would that mean?
If that, if it was successful,you're doing this full time.
What does that mean for you?
Sarah (46:39):
And this is where I got caught up.
Cause the first thing I want tosay sounds really dumb.
It makes my heart happy.
And It's an emotional thing.
Now I'm going to cry, but,
Chris (46:51):
Oh, no.
Sarah (46:52):
but that's what it is.
It's,
Chris (46:54):
Your first responses are neither selfish nor dumb.
Dummy
Sarah (46:58):
but that's what it does.
That's what it's an emotionalthing.
And being able to share my storyand that helping other people
and being able to make that whatI do.
That would be, I think that'swhat it does.
It makes my heart happy.
Damn you, Michelle.
Michele (47:19):
you one more question.
What's stopping you?
What's stopping you from doingthat?
Sarah (47:29):
I'm good.
I'm good.
I have, I just did one littlemeltdown.
It's fine.
It's fine.
What's stopping us from it's
Chris (47:35):
par for the course for this show.
Michele (47:37):
Stopping you.
I'm talking to you.
What's stopping you?
Chris (47:47):
Okay, two breakdowns.
Sarah (47:49):
I've had so many ideas of what I want to do with my life
and they've all been wrong.
Chris (47:56):
Of course they have.
Sorry, I'll just sit behind youand say encouraging things.
Everyone feels that way.
Until you find the one that'sright.
Sarah (48:04):
Yeah, I, that, and it's not like I can quit my job.
There's always a, Money aspectto it and finding the time to
put into it that would get us tothe next level.
So those are the things thatstopped me.
But that initial one is big one.
Michele (48:28):
So you feel like you've made a lot of wrong choices?
Sarah (48:33):
Feel like the wrong choices I made are part of my
story, which makes it me.
And I hate when people are like,I have no regrets because it
made me, like there's a ton ofshit I'd go back and do
different.
But those big choices, I don'tthink that I would change even
though they've led me to a pointwhere I'm 46 and still trying to
(48:54):
figure out what I want to bewhen I grow up.
I wouldn't say they were wrongchoices or bad choices, it just
didn't work out the way I wantedit to.
It didn't work out the way I sawit.
You're scaring me the way you'relooking at me, Michelle.
Michele (49:10):
No, I'm thinking, and when I think I
Sarah (49:15):
sorry.
I feel bad.
I, cause I took over the callwith
Chris (49:18):
That's okay.
Sarah (49:19):
Clarity call with you.
Michele (49:21):
and you are more than welcome to give me a call for a
clarity call.
You both are clarity call isabsolutely free and it's just to
delve deeper and really figureout where you are and where you
want to go and how you can getthere.
Chris (49:41):
see Michelle can help you with your values.
Sarah (49:44):
Yeah.
And that's, that's where Ialways get stuck.
That's where the book stops andit doesn't tell me how to do it.
Chris (49:52):
It tells you how to do it, you just don't want to.
Sarah (49:54):
Okay, it doesn't tell me exactly what to do and it
doesn't give me a step by stepexactly what I need to move on.
Chris (49:59):
Write down
Michele (50:00):
not going to give you step by step exactly what
Sarah (50:04):
know.
Michele (50:06):
but I will, in coaching or in my coaching, there are
exercises and there are thingsthat help you explore.
Because the answers are in you.
You got that answer like that.
Like, when I asked thosequestions, something came to
(50:29):
your mind like that.
All the answers are in you.
And in coaching, we just helpyou, guide you, to uncover those
answers.
Alright,
Sarah (50:46):
I read things that ask these questions, because I feel
like I've read things that askthese same questions.
I'm meh.
I go through in my head and I'mlike, alright, whatever, next
page.
Like I don't really, I'm notforced.
I don't know if that's the word.
I'm not guided to dig deeper.
And so that's something thatcoaching would probably help.
Chris (51:10):
You're so smart.
Sarah (51:11):
All right.
I'm done.
I'm I've cried.
I'm now sleepy.
I don't have, yeah.
Huh.
Chris (51:20):
All right, I got a couple of questions.
So
Michele (51:23):
go for it, Gaster.
Chris (51:24):
Michelle a lot of what a lot of what sarah and I are
trying to do on the podcast isget people to accept that
Working on who you are as aperson is part of that mental
wellness.
That's part of You Enjoying agood life and enjoying a being
the person that you want to bethe person who who wants to get
(51:45):
up out of bed and who, goes outand does the things that they
want to do.
So I think having you on hereand helping us talk about that
wellness.
Transcripts provided in thisvideo are made possible by the
members of the Resource Club atwww.
(52:10):
resourceclub.
org.
mental health challenges thatyou have, right?
Because people have forever beenshying away from Oh, I don't
want anyone to know about mydiagnosis.
I don't want anyone to knowabout how I struggle with this
or how I struggle with that.
And I think a big part of whatwe'd like to get the guests take
(52:32):
on is how do we change that?
How do we change that as a groupof people who are trying to push
forward the idea that there'snothing wrong with going to the
hospital and having to take careof yourself mentally the same
way you would go to the hospitaland get yourself taken care of
if you have a broken arm?
How do we move things forwardthere?
Michele (52:51):
It's interesting because no there's a lot of
things that come to mind.
And one of the things I talkabout a lot is self stigma,
because it's something that Isuffered with for such a long
time.
And even though.
I have been in what I would callmental health recovery for the
(53:15):
last few decades.
And all I mean by that is Ihaven't been manic or depressed
or been in the hospital oranything along those lines.
So that to me is mental healthrecovery.
So even though For two decades,I've been there, still, under
(53:38):
the surface, just a little bit.
There's been that, I didn'trealize it was still present.
We, so many people that suffercan hold on to that shame and
not feeling good enough.
Or, In my case, I lowered myexpectations of myself when I
(54:03):
lost that job because my mentalhealth was so For three years,
from 2002 to 2005, once a year Iwas back on the psych ward.
I went through this three yearperiod that I couldn't break
(54:24):
that cycle, and I really startedto wonder, is this what the rest
of my life is gonna look like?
And as a result of that.
I lowered my expectations ofmyself and my place in the
world.
We talk about our goals and ourdreams.
I pushed mine down.
(54:46):
I no longer felt that perhaps Icould achieve them.
And even though it had been twodecades, It was only through my
own work, my own personaldevelopment work that I realized
that was still present andmoreover that it wasn't true,
(55:07):
that it was only that I wasnever broken.
It was only my perception thatwas broken.
And when I realized that andrealized that, I can do that
too.
I see you and I admire you.
There's no reason I can't dothat.
(55:29):
I can do that and have thecourage to go after these things
again and dust off those dreamsand make them 10 times bigger.
But when we talk about that andwe talk about what we can do as
a society, even today.
(55:51):
And it's been 2 decades, buteven today, I was at a
conference last weekend and thespeaker was talking about
something and made 2 references.
And in 1, she was talking andshe referred to something as
cray cray.
(56:11):
And everybody laughed.
And then there was anothercomment.
about someone being unstable.
These comments were not directedat me.
These comments, everybodylaughed at.
They're funny comments.
I may have smiled, but even allthis time later, there was a
(56:33):
little, just a tiny little turnin my stomach.
Just a little bit, just a tinylittle bit So it's being mindful
of the language we use, beingmindful of the way we talk about
mental illness.
And that also goes in the waypeople that have it talk about
(56:57):
themselves.
So for example, There are a lotof healers that believe whatever
you put on the other side of Iam, you tend to embody.
So I will never say I amdepressed or I am bipolar.
Instead, I would say I'm someonewho has Depression.
(57:23):
I'm someone who has and it'ssuch a subtle shift, but when
you do it long enough, it startsto have a positive impact.
You are not depression.
You are not your illness.
And when you say that, you'retaking that on.
(57:44):
So watching the language we usewhen we talk about mental
illness as a society andwatching the way we talk about
mental illness when we aresomeone that has that illness
and are talking about ourselves.
Chris (58:02):
No, I love that.
I think it's so important.
It, just to share a little more,when Olivia came out of the
psych ward, she was like, don'ttell anybody, don't tell
anybody.
And I was like, it's your storyto tell.
I won't tell anybody.
But the only thing worse thanhaving everyone know that you
were in the psych ward is beingthe only person that knows you
were in the psych ward.
You gotta share your story.
(58:23):
You gotta kind of claim who youare.
And when you're ready to dothat, we'll do it.
And until then we'll keep itbetween us and we'll keep
working on it.
And it, now she's yeah, this ismy story.
This is what I, this is what Ifaced and this is how I came out
on the other side of it.
And this is how I continue tobattle as somebody who faces
these issues.
Yeah, I, I really look forwardto being in a world where these
(58:45):
sorts of challenges anddisorders are treated as
challenges and disorders, not assomething that's a character
flaw.
Because it's not a characterflaw to have a spicy neuro typ,
neuro atypical brain.
It's a challenge.
And it's not something that,that makes you less or makes
you.
Not worthy of Having all of thedreams that you could possibly
(59:09):
have.
So yeah, I appreciate that takeon it
Michele (59:12):
I just did an Instagram post today for World Mental
Health Day and on it, in it, Italked about You are not alone.
So it's when we share our storythat it's cut in half.
We think that when we're goingthrough something, or when we're
(59:34):
in the middle of something, orwhen we're uncomfortable, we
feel like we're the only person.
And that's when And as I said inthe post and I'll speak for
myself, when I feel that way, Iwant to isolate.
I don't want to be aroundpeople.
I want to be by myself.
I want to get through this.
(59:55):
It's I got this.
I can do this.
I got this.
You say, I got this.
But.
It's when we share our storythat we realize we're not alone.
And when you know that on acellular level, that's when your
story, there's power in sharingyour experience, and it can be
(01:00:18):
used to help somebody and totruly know that you're never
alone.
Chris (01:00:27):
That's the that's the whole basic message of the
entire podcast Is that there's aton of us who go through this
stuff every day.
There's a ton of us who haveWho, who want to talk about it
and want to share it and want tobe part of your community and
want to be the person that youcan look to and be like, Hey,
sorry about the spicy brain.
Sorry that you sorry that youhave challenges and sorry that
(01:00:49):
you have people who have, gonethrough.
Horrible, bad places in theirlife, but you're, you have us
and we'll at least make youlaugh once or twice an episode
and you can look to that as alittle bit of comfort, but yeah,
that's the, that's, there's somuch power in that kind of
community and extending it out.
I think that is why Sarah and Icontinue to reach out to our
(01:01:10):
tens and tens of listeners everyweek.
Michele (01:01:13):
The other thing, too, and that you've you're doing in
doing that, the laughter is soimportant because you feel like
You can't laugh, but when youlaugh, you were.
It, when you smile, you'resending signals to your brain.
(01:01:38):
So when you laugh, as soon asyou laugh, you realize it's
going to be okay.
As soon as you laugh, you knowit's going to be okay.
Chris (01:01:51):
100%.
That is the whole basis of ourfamily and the whole basis of
everything that we're trying todo here.
Yeah, I think, just to wrap itup, Michelle, do you have
anything any advice for ourlisteners who this is the
question I ask all the time.
We've got people who are goingthrough like pretty big
challenges who have gone throughpretty big challenges and then
there's those of us who are onthe sidelines.
It's we're just like supportingour friends and relatives who
(01:02:15):
have a lot of challenges.
Do you have any advice for kindof those of us helping to
support people going throughthose dark times?
Michele (01:02:23):
The biggest thing that appreciated the most were the
people who just sat with me whenI was in my depression, I, and
we didn't talk about that.
But I went through a clinicaldepression.
I was off work for 2 months.
(01:02:44):
I barely got out of bed.
I didn't want to talk.
I had nothing to say.
I didn't want to talk toanybody.
I didn't have anything to say.
And those people who came andjust sat with me, it was okay
(01:03:05):
that I didn't have anything tosay.
You didn't try to fix it.
You didn't try to ask what waswrong.
You just were present.
And that meant so there's somuch that there's such a power.
In knowing somebody is there, oragain, back to my you are never
(01:03:29):
alone, when someone is justbeside you, you're not trying to
make it better, you're nottrying to ask what's wrong,
you're just there.
You don't have to say anything.
When I I had an aunt that usedto show up on her lunch hour
(01:03:49):
every day to try to get me to gofor a walk when I wouldn't get
out of bed.
And I would hear the doorbelland I'd look out the window and
I'd see her and I'd duck downand hope she didn't see me.
And I'd wait until she left.
I did not want to talk to her.
But she came back every singleday.
And one of those days, I openedthe door.
(01:04:12):
And we went for a walk.
We didn't talk on those walks,but my legs moved.
I felt the sun on my face.
Those were my first steps towardhealing.
And I appreciated so much thatshe didn't.
It was okay that we just walkedin silence.
(01:04:34):
It was okay that I didn't haveanything to say.
It was okay.
She was just there and thatmeant the world to me.
Chris (01:04:46):
Yeah, I love that.
It, because, it I've never beensad like that.
Sarah's been sad like that,Olivia's been sad like that,
lots of people have been sadlike that, but I've never been
sad like that.
And it's hard for someone whodoesn't have that experience to,
not want to fix it.
Just just maybe try not beingsad.
Just maybe do that.
(01:05:07):
But to hear that all it takesfor us to help you in Support
you during those times is justto be there is great news
because I can do that all dayLike it's the talking where I
run into challenges.
So For me, this is happy.
I can show up and knock on yourdoor all you want Like we can go
for a walk.
We can hang out we can pet cats.
Whatever.
I'm in and it's so nice to youknow understand That's enough.
(01:05:31):
Sometimes that's enough just tobe there and to make sure that
you know you're not alone.
And it's hard for me to realizethat, that's enough, because I'm
just a natural person that justwants to fix it.
Let me fix it.
Do you want to talk about it?
We should talk about it.
I'm
Sarah (01:05:44):
Also it's your daughter that you're, it's your daughter
is your main focus and That'shard to not fix that.
So
Chris (01:05:55):
It was a
Sarah (01:05:55):
always going to be your gut instinct to try to fix it.
But just know that, that.
You don't have to.
Chris (01:06:03):
It was a lesson, and just in general, you can, when I
think to go back to the stigmapiece of it, it's, we've got a,
we've got a couple of friendswho have lost children to
suicide and their stories areheartbreaking, right?
Not they're completelyheartbreaking, but compounding
it is people don't know how totalk to them about it and don't
know how to.
(01:06:24):
To support them and to the pointwhere these guys are in the
grocery store and people whohave known them for years and
years are just like, and willtake off in the other direction
because they don't want to havean interaction and have it be
awkward.
And it, that's hard on theperson that's doing that, I
would imagine, and that's hardon, on them because they're like
I wouldn't mind talking aboutit.
(01:06:45):
I don't mind not talking aboutit.
I just want to interact withpeople like normal at the
grocery store.
Michele (01:06:51):
And the biggest thing that would make a difference is,
and obviously I've had, I'velost friends to suicide, but I
don't, I've never lost a child.
But in those situations, justsaying to someone, I don't know
what to say, but I want you toknow I'm here.
(01:07:15):
And that's all you have to say.
I don't know the words.
I'm not going to pretend I do.
I can't imagine, but I'm here.
And that's all you have to say.
Gaster
Chris (01:07:35):
you take the whispers that happen behind closed doors
and you take the, the gossipypart of it and be like, nah, we
don't have to do that, y'all.
I know that I'm suffering andyou know that I'm suffering and
we might as well just talk aboutit.
You know give each other alittle nod about it.
It's fine.
Sarah Do you have anythingbecause I think I've squeezed
all I can squeeze out ofMichelle kapats here,
Sarah (01:07:54):
Feel like she's got hours to go.
I feel like we could do thisforever.
But instead, we'll go
Chris (01:08:01):
do want her to get a rest
Sarah (01:08:03):
then we will we'll go ahead and wrap it up.
In our show notes, we will putMichelle's website, which is
michellecapotts.
com.
Pretty simple.
One L in the Michelle.
I always get it confused.
Always.
Chris (01:08:18):
Tres French.
Tres
Sarah (01:08:19):
know why, I don't know why, but as you saw the the 60
minute free clarity call
Chris (01:08:27):
That's going to be an emotional thing.
Sarah (01:08:29):
Yeah, check it out.
Check it out.
Check it out.
We will put all the links in theshow notes and just a huge thank
you to you, Michelle, for allthat you do for your clients,
for all of us in general.
And thank you so much for takingthe time to hang out with us,
crazy gaster girls and join usfor our little journey here
Michele (01:08:50):
It was so much fun.
Thank you guys for having me.
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