Bare Bones Banter with Sam Leibhart

Fan Mail Goes Here!!

In this episode of Bare Bones Banter, Sarah and Christine interview Sarah's sister-in-law, ICU nurse Sam Leibhart, about healthcare workers' mental health and well-being. They explore Sam's experiences, the stresses and traumas faced by nurses, and discuss the supportive measures being put in place for medical staff. The group shares laughs, anecdotes, and personal stories alongside their serious conversation, making for a heartfelt and engaging dialogue about an important topic.

How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!

Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/

Episode Transcript

Sarah (00:02):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to anotherinstallment of Bare Bones
Banter.
Why are you, why are you hidingyour face, Christine?

Chris (00:09):
cause I can't look at you while you do the introduction.
It makes me laugh.

Sarah (00:12):
Fuck you.
Okay.
Um, okay, so yeah, so we're,we're doing a, it's fine.
We're doing an interview todayand we're interviewing my
sister-in-law, Sam Lebar.
See we have the same last name.
She's my sister-in-law and Iwould love to tell you her
title, but I don't know it.
She's a nurse and we are gonnatalk about mental health and
mental wellbeing of ourhealthcare workers.

(00:33):
This is interesting for me'causeI don't know shit about it, so I
think I'm excited to learn aboutit.
Sam, why don't you give us yourtitle and tell us what that
means, like what you actually doin a normal day.
I'm fairly certain there's nevera normal day in what you do,
but.
Go ahead and give it a shot.

Sam (00:50):
All right, so I'm Sam.
I am Sarah's sister-in-law.
Um, I did marry into the LeePark family.
Um, I have been an ICU nurse forthe last eight years, and of the
last three I have been what'sconsidered a clinician in our
hospital system, which is middlemanagement.
So.
My normal day changes all thetime.
Um, either in the office or I'mclinical facing or I'm a little

(01:13):
bit of both.
I'm a charge nurse.
I'm just a re Christine, I feellike that

Sarah (01:16):
should strike an interest with you just because she said
clinical more than once.
Right.
And I feel like I hear the wordclinical all the time when you
talk about your nerd shit.

Chris (01:24):
Yeah, but it's different.
It's clinical research.
The way Sam and I wouldintersect is if, uh, Sam's
Hospital decided to do someclinical research studies.
Well, for

Sarah (01:35):
anybody who's not watching on the YouTubes, we
decided to make, we decided tomake this a, a drinking
interview.
Sam showed up with a white clawand not to be outdone.
I went and got a Miller L anduh, I forced Becca to go get a
White Claw.
My sister will not participatebecause she has, I have things
clinical research to do

Chris (01:55):
later.

Sarah (01:57):
Lame.

Chris (01:58):
Lame.
Yeah.
I love what Sam does'cause itgives me all the data to do what
I do.
So

Sarah (02:03):
nerd.
Nerds.
Nerds.
Fucking nerds.
Nerds.
Yeah.

Chris (02:07):
Um, but here's the thing I'm more curious about right
now, Sam.
Are there, are there bones onyour shirt?
Does it say human bones?
Stick your boobs out.
Show us your ticks.
Yeah.
Woo.

Sam (02:20):
Well those are all the bones.
Yeah, it's a skeleton.
It's uni.
Ironically, I put this shirt ontoday and didn't even think
about it and didn't change.
'cause I was like, oh, we're notgonna be on camera.
Here we are.

Sarah (02:32):
Well, here we are.

Chris (02:33):
Well,

Sarah (02:33):
there's only like a couple of us on camera.
No one looks, yeah.
And it's nobody, nobody watcheson YouTube.
I think maybe one or two peopledo.
So it's really not that big of adeal now that we've made that
statement.
They might, I mean, I stoppedputting makeup on for these
myself.
Um, yeah.
So we're good.

Chris (02:52):
For the person who has problems with noises, it happens
every episode.
I feel like that's the best

Sarah (02:59):
one thus far.
It was really good.
It was a pretty good one.
I had one yesterday that likemacho looked up and was like,
and I said, I know macho.
Sometimes I even impress myself.
Okay, back to Sam and actualinterview questions.
So as far as mental health goeswith, uh, our healthcare
workers, I don't know why I findthat so hard to say.

(03:22):
Healthcare workers and mentalhealth in the same, it doesn't
roll off the tongue anyway.
What parts of your job take thebiggest toll on your mental and
and emotional wellbeing, you,yourself and what you might see
with other people?

Sam (03:34):
I'd say the families, especially in like a critical
care setting, so we get thesickest of the sick.
They're for all intents andpurposes on their death beds
when they come to us.
So a lot of times the familiesare either super overbearing or
the case is just really sad andit's kind of hard to be a
participant.
Watch all of this happen andwatch it, you know, the bad news

(03:56):
roll in and sometimes wedisagree with the family's
decisions to keep a patient afull code.
For those of you that don'tknow, that means we do CPR, we
put'em on a ventilator, webreathe for them, we help their
blood pressure, we do all ofthese things and at what cost.
So sometimes I would think thefamilies are the worst part of
the job.

Sarah (04:13):
Yeah.
I feel like it's, uh, dealingwith parents when, nevermind,
that's not even remotelycomparable.
Um, it's just like it.
My next, my next like itquestion.
I was gonna say, dealing withparents when you're coaching
son,

Chris (04:27):
it's the same.
It's the same.
If the parents were killing thechildren, it would be exactly
the same.

Sam (04:33):
But I mean, it's not wrong though.
Like the comparison is if youreally think about it, they
think they know what's best andthey don't to listen to someone
who is a trained professionalRight.
And knows what they're talkingabout, and they're like, no, no,
I know better.
Uh, the Google, the Googlemachine told me it's like, no,
the

Sarah (04:49):
Googles no,

Sam (04:50):
no,

Sarah (04:50):
you're wrong.
Googles.
So I just thought of something.
This is something else that willhappen throughout interviews.
Like I have all these questionswritten down and then I won't
ask any of those.
I'll just ask random ones.
This is a fun one though.
Are you watching The Pit?
Oh my God, yes.
Right.
Okay.
Are, is anybody else watchingthe Pit

Chris (05:07):
already watched

Sarah (05:08):
it when it was er?
Yeah, no.
This is way better.
Yes.
This, this kicks, this takes erand just, it just shreds it.
Fucking shreds it.

Sam (05:16):
So it's the

Chris (05:17):
same

Sam (05:17):
guy?

Sarah (05:18):
Yes.
No.
Yeah, same guy.
Whatever.

Sam (05:21):
The same gentleman, I believe that was on ER wrote.
Mm-hmm.
Not just Noah Wiley, but likethere were other people in,
okay.
The original er, excuse me,that, I'll tell you what.
So

Chris (05:32):
if they bring George Clooney back, I'm in a percent.

Sarah (05:38):
So like Back to the Pit though, for real?
Sorry.
Like how accurate, I mean that'san, that's an ER though, so it's
not like the same shit.
But what do you think of, of thepit?

Sam (05:49):
I think between both ER and ICU to some extent, like being
outside of a television show,there's a lot of crossover
between what we do and the ICUand what the ER does.
They're their own breeds forsure, but I will say like when
the Pit very first episode,their superior comes down and
talks about the Press Ganeyscores and the, the surveys, the
patient satisfac, like that'sreal.

(06:10):
That's a real thing that we hearabout, not so much in the ICU
'cause they don't really do, uh,surveys on dead people, but.

Sarah (06:17):
I mean,

Sam (06:18):
oh,

Sarah (06:20):
like, I dunno how to react to that.
Should I laugh?
Should I not laugh?
Yes.
I don't know.
So I'll just laugh.

Sam (06:26):
I mean, it, it, it is, to be fair, we do discharge people.
They survive.
They are not always dead, butit's true.
Like the ER and the pit says atbest, like, this is not a fast
food restaurant.
Patients are satisfied becausethey're not dead.
That's the end goal.
There's a lot of accuracies inthe pit and I am a hundred
percent on board with anotherseason, which I think they just

(06:48):
signed up for.
I mean,

Sarah (06:49):
I feel like it's, yeah, Becca's shaking her head and she
would know.
I feel like it's popular.
I like it.
So of course everybody elselikes it.
How about that lady and her, thebaby coming out of her vagina
the other day?
No, no, no.
Wow.
Who saw that coming?
Jesus.

Sam (07:03):
I watched.
I was like, oh my God.
I watched that with Dan and Idon't think he was like a
hundred percent ready for it.
He was like, looking at me.
I was like, yeah, this is howbabies are born, hun.

Sarah (07:15):
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
And then I thought like afterthe first shot, like, okay, it's
over.
Nope.
And then they, oh my, it was, itwas a lot.
There was a lot, like the

Chris (07:24):
whole, whole video, like the video they show you at, at
child, baby class?
No, like

Sarah (07:29):
all at

Chris (07:30):
once.
They

Sarah (07:30):
was, you know, they'd go back up for a, and then they'd
go back down.
Yeah, yeah.
David, David passed out.
Yeah.
I didn't have my, my baby wasjust cut outta my belly, which I
imagine didn't look much better.
Like,

Chris (07:45):
um, I mean, not when, not when I was having, just watching
the vi, like getting ready tohave like the training.
I was like

Sam (07:51):
two passing out at the birth.
It was just the training video.

Chris (07:55):
Yeah.
At least he got.
I mean there we were there andhe was like patting me on the
back of the head and he's like,come on one little girl, you're
okay.
Come on.
And I was like, get off.
You push for a little bit.
David's like, David's like a bigguy too.
If he went down while I wasactually giving birth, like he
would hurt somebody.

Sarah (08:13):
Yeah.
Nobody would be able to give himthe fuck out of there.
Hi Dan.
How are you man?
Look Dan a mental funny bone,little Dan.
He's like, yeah, get, get thefuck outta here.
Just for reference, I think whenI met Dan e he was, uh, 10 maybe
at the wedding.
He was, he was, uh, 15 at thewedding.

Chris (08:32):
I remember thinking, why are these babies

Sarah (08:34):
here?
Whose children are these?
It was a good wedding, man.
It was a good wedding.
Anyway, okay, so that's, let'sstop talking about the vagina
and the baby.
Actually, no, I have one morething to say about it.
'cause what I thought was reallyfunny is like the one girl like
lifts up the little thing andthey're like, how, how's, how's
it look down there?
Or something?
And she was like, I see hair.
And everybody was like.

(08:56):
And she's like the baby's hair.

Sam (08:58):
The writing of this is phenomenal.
Like yeah, pretend it does blower to some extent out of the
water.
But I always say to Dan, I'mlike, it's the modern day er.

Sarah (09:07):
Yeah, Christine, you have to watch it.
You really do.
It's a very good, and I thinkthat we're coming up on the
final episode.
Yes.
Pretty soon.
So you'll be able to just bingeit.
I

Chris (09:16):
have to watch Reacher, like I have a whole lot of
things

Sarah (09:19):
to watch.
It'll change those.
'cause then you could like thinkabout making out with reacher
and then think about making outwith the Noah Wiley a little
bit.
And then maybe going back toreacher like, you

Chris (09:27):
know, that same time or No, I'm reading a lot of books
that floats your boat.
I'm reading a lot of books wherethat is the plot line.
And maybe I should like switchthat up with like some
nonfiction.
Not the smut.

Sarah (09:39):
Mm-hmm.
That's what we look for.
I mean,

Chris (09:41):
I,

Sarah (09:41):
I read the same book every fucking day because I read
like one of them a day.
'cause they're so easy to readand I skip through most of them.
'cause once you've read so manyspicy scenes, it's like, Jesus.
All right.
Then what am I reading it for?
Like, it's the same story,right?

Chris (09:56):
Basically it's comforting.
It's like watching a Hallmarkmovie except with Mar Ween.
Okay, next question.
We're gonna have to cut thiswhole episode out.
The

Sarah (10:05):
whole episode.
No, I feel like Becca's gonna doa great job at peppering in some
of this.
I feel like it's necessary.
We definitely need to talk aboutthe pit vagina.
I feel like that's, or the,okay.
Um, okay, so let's get back toquestions and let's see which
one do I like.
Now, do you feel that healthcareworkers are expected to tough it
out emotionally and how doesthat pressure show

Sam (10:27):
up?
I think to some extent theexpectation is that we carry a
lot of the burden because we'rethe ones advocating for the
patient when, you know, family'snot around.
And um, but I feel like we areexpected to some extent, to just
tough it out.
It's a bad situation.
It's a cardiac arrest, it's acode, whatever you wanna call
it, you know, we are thatpatient's voice.

(10:50):
So the expectation is set veryhigh.
For us to just kind of grin andbear it and deal with the worst
of the situations and just moveon to the next room.
I think it shows up a lot of thetime in our break rooms in my
office when my staff need thatreprieve and it shows up with
tears, it shows up withfrustrations with providers.

(11:10):
It shows up with a lot ofexpletives and you know, and
then it's suck it up and thenyou go back out there and you.
Get your other patient a warmblanket and a bottle of water.
Like we just have kind ofprogrammed ourselves to
compartmentalize.

Sarah (11:23):
And that's scary to me.
That's scary.
I don't, um, and I, I don't knowhow you do it.
I don't know how it's possible.
I cried on the way home theother day thinking about the dog
that was in the stolen car backin September in Pittsburgh.
I don't know if you guysremember the thing.
I was like, oh my God, wehaven't heard about him lately.
Oh no.
He is probably dead by now.
Like, I literally did exactlywhat I know that we shouldn't be

(11:45):
doing.
And I made up a whole storyabout this dog and cried on the
way home.
I don't know how you see thethings that you see and are able
to Yeah, I, I, it's, it'samazing to me, and I'm saying
that as a compliment, like I,like we obviously need people
like you and it's justincredible that you can do that
and kind of keep your wits aboutyou.

Sam (12:05):
I mean, I think the funniest part about healthcare
is, is that we stop.
And this is terrible to say, butwe stopped seeing you as a
person once you hit the door.
Mm-hmm.
And we see you as like a puzzleand you know, putting the pieces
back together and getting youwhole again.
You look so excited because Isaid that, and it sounds really
shitty to say, oh, am I allowedto swear?

Sarah (12:23):
No.

Sam (12:23):
You can't fucking swear on our podcast.
Oh my God.
I just

Chris (12:26):
peed a little.

Sarah (12:27):
Can I swear?
I gotta go get another beer.

Chris (12:31):
I dunno the rules.
It's not broadcast tv.
We could do what we want.
We're like Sarah, when she was ateenager.

Sarah (12:38):
Yeah.
Do what you want.
Unless you have to be home bymidnight Fair.

Sam (12:42):
But it's really shitty to say you sounded very excited by.

Chris (12:45):
Well, I mean, it's the, it's the same, it's the same
thing, like right, looking at, Iam looking at patient after
patient after patient and all ofthis research and I'm like, oh,
that guy died.
I gotta do a form.
I gotta, that guy died.
Uh, these people, this wholecollection of people are now
bleeding out of their noseuncontrollably.
But that's a weird side effect.
I would like to be the person,like on the Viagra study and

(13:07):
just go through the adverseevents and be like, um, you
guys, this guy's had a boner for17 days.

Sarah (13:15):
You guys, you gotta come and look at this.
It's kind of like Jeff Foxworthytalking about poop.
God, you guys gotta come in hereand look at this.
So

Sam (13:24):
every day in my house, pretty much.
Right?
Absolutely.

Chris (13:28):
Oh

Sam (13:28):
my

Chris (13:28):
God.

Sam (13:28):
Alright.
Yeah.

Chris (13:29):
Sorry.
Sorry.
Distracting.
But yeah, I mean it's, that'sthe, and I think a dark sense of
humor helps.
Yes,

Sam (13:34):
it most certainly does.
I think I wouldn't have beenable to develop my brain in the
way that it is now if I didn'thave a dark sense of humor prior
to going into healthcare.

Sarah (13:43):
So do you think, this is another random question.
So the statement you just madeis.
Prior to going into healthcare,like you had that, you've always
had that dark sense of humor,but do you think it's something
that you had to, um, hone in onor work on further once you got
into healthcare?
Do you think that that's like a,a big key thing like that needs
to be the be there prior to youdeciding to go into healthcare?

Sam (14:07):
Well, I was kind of an anomaly'cause I went in a
nursing leader in life, so I wasprobably one of the older kids
in my class and a lot of themwere like fresh out of high
school with no life experience.
So by like dark humor comes withlife experience.
Yeah.
So I think to some extent itshouldn't be a prerequisite to
get into healthcare, but itdoesn't hurt if you've got life

(14:28):
experience behind you.

Sarah (14:29):
How do you put that on a, a job listing?
You've gotta have fucked up darkhammer.
That's the only way you can dothis.

Sam (14:35):
I mean, to be fair, I wrote one of, you know, you do your
whole resume and my little essaything that says like why I wanna
become a nurse.
'cause they always ask you thatquestion.
And I had lost an aunt to abrain bleed and you know, core,
which is the Center for OrganDonation and Recovery.
They came in, they scooped upher liver and no pun intended.
And the whole reason that Iwanted to become a nurse was

(14:58):
because that core nurse pulledmy mom aside and said, Hey, I
know you promised her that youwould be there for her last
breath.
Like let's go into the or whenwe extubate her, you can be
there and she will take her lastbreath with you by her side.
So that's why I wanted to becomea nurse.
And I was 14 at the time, but Ididn't wanna accept the fact
that I had to do all theschoolwork'cause I was a lazy
kid.

(15:18):
I didn't wanna do theschoolwork.

Sarah (15:19):
Yeah.
This is a family trait, eventhough we're not related by
blood.

Chris (15:24):
It's a family trait.

Sarah (15:26):
Well I feel like it is.
Oh, okay.
Well now I'm crying, not'causelaughing.
Yeah, that's I.

Chris (15:32):
Right

Sarah (15:32):
at the age of 14, that's when you know, and this is what,
that's a hell of a story.
I

Sam (15:36):
like the plague to be honest.
I went to art school, I went tocommunity college, and I finally
was like, well, shit, I guess Icould get my shit together.

Sarah (15:44):
You got a few crowns along the way.
You were a dancer.
Just so everybody knows, Sam wasmiss what kind of dancer?
Woo.
D three College basketball.
Yeah.
She wasn't, she wasn't a dancerat, what's the name of it?
Club Erotica.
Club Erotica.
She was a laroche dancer.
Where do you, didn't you get alaroche?

(16:05):
Yes.
Okay.
Um, but more importantly, Sam isa former beauty queen.
So true.

Sam (16:11):
Currently she looks great.
I think you

Sarah (16:12):
always look beautiful.
Yeah.
I heard when, when her and Danistarted dating, Noah said, yeah,
Dani has a girlfriend, which isweird to begin with.
And then it was like, yeah,she's a, she's a beauty queen.
I was like, oh, this is gonna goover really fucking well.
And then you showed up and I waslike, wow, that's a pleasant
surprise.
She burped loudly.
So yeah, so it all worked out inthe end.

Sam (16:35):
It's weird when the family acknowledges that, like, again,
having a girlfriend is weird.
Mind you together for 12 years.
I feel like Steve, out of all ofthe siblings is one that we're
all like, Hmm, you got agirlfriend, huh?

Sarah (16:47):
Yeah.
I mean I think for me weird wasthe fact that Danny is 10.
That's fair.
I was like, he's just little.
So are they going together?
Like who's driving them to themovies?
There you go, Sam.
Mm-hmm.
He's driving them to

Chris (17:02):
the

Sarah (17:02):
movies.
Yeah.
Like I was like, it's weird.
He is just little.
But yeah.
Now you, now everybody's grownand that's way better.
'cause you guys are way more funto hang out with when you can
legally drink.

Sam (17:13):
Yeah.
I'm gonna second that.
We legally drank, we weredrawing dicks on your chalkboard
in your basement.
So

Sarah (17:19):
Yeah.
Um, Owen noticed them, what wasit yesterday?
He said, have they been downthere the whole time since the
party?
He said, yeah, yeah.
I'm fairly certain Uncle Dannydid that.
And he was like, huh, I'm notsurprised.

Sam (17:32):
Meanwhile, Dan's literally sitting in the living room, I'm
sure just.
All comments in the whole wideworld.
Yeah.
And when

Sarah (17:39):
you draw dick pictures, dick cartoons, dick, whatever,
when you draw dicks in ourhouse, we just leave them.
We let'em roll where they live.
Yeah, and I didn't even noticethem, but when Owen yesterday
was like, have these been herethe whole time?
I was like, have what?
Has what been there?
I just, I've walked past them athousand times.
I'd love to say it was the firsttime there was, uh, a penis

(18:00):
drawing on that chalkboard, butit's not, I think it was
actually the first thing thatwas on that chalkboard.

Sam (18:05):
That's

Sarah (18:06):
fair.
That's fair.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Back to real stuff.
Talking about compartmentalizingand how you guys are able to
deal with the things that, thatyou see outside of, in your
break room and coming to you,what type of resources are
available for all of you to beable to manage all of this?

Sam (18:23):
Well, I think it starts at home.
A lot of the times.
Surrounding yourself with a verysupportive group of people is
key.
Um, they don't have to work inhealthcare.
I think sometimes when wecongregate as healthcare
workers, we can't stop and nottalk about work.
We overanalyze and do all thethings.
I'll come home and I'll call Danand I'm like, this was a
horrible situation.
I need to cry about it for fiveminutes and then we'll go back

(18:44):
to like talking about somerandom thing he sent me on off
of Reddit's website.
Like, I think surroundingyourself with people that bring
you that normalcy is superimportant to the ability to be
able to compartmentalize andexpress it appropriately.
If that makes sense.
Yeah,

Sarah (18:59):
that makes sense to me.
I mean, what the fuck do I know?

Sam (19:02):
I mean, there are resources outside of that available.
I know that the system that Iwork for, they have different
hotlines that we can call.
There's a wellness committeethat we've started.
In fact, I'm part of thewellness committee at our level
and at the system level.
So like they're really shiftingtheir focus to the wellness of
their bedside staff.
Not just nurses, not justdoctors, but respiratory

(19:23):
therapists.
EVS, like it is all encompassingbecause we all have trials and
tribulations at the bedside.
Doesn't matter what positionthat you're in.
So there are resources, likeresources like that.
And then one of the ones that Istarted following during covid,
um, I just screenshot of theirwebsite'cause I don't remember
anything half the time it's dedebriefing the front lines.

(19:44):
They have one-on-one sessions,they've got group sessions,
they've got CEUs, they do a lotof advocacy for the bedside
staff.
And it's a nonprofit, so it'snot controlled by any healthcare
system.
It is just a bunch of nursessupporting nurses.
So there are apps that's awesometo find outside.
What was that website?
It is called

Chris (20:05):
If.
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead Sam.
And then I'll make my joke.
Um, it's debriefing the frontlines

Sarah (20:13):
just made sure.
I just wanted to make sure thatour intern got it.

Chris (20:16):
If only we had a mechanism like notes about the
show where we could putreferences like this.

Sarah (20:23):
Listen, I don't wanna hear you talking about notes.
The one time we did aninterview, it said that the
person we were interviewing wasthe co-host, Christine and
Heather, co-host Christine andHeather host this, like, what
the fuck?
So you take your show, was thatyour phone?
Yeah, Olivia's calling.

Chris (20:41):
At

Sam (20:41):
least I put mine on silent.
My mom texted me three times,but, alright, so let me look at
my question.

Chris (20:46):
Wait, wait, what?
Wait.
Oh, you have something?
Wait, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Wait, go ahead.
So go ahead Sam.
The approach that that you guystake to supporting each other,
do you think that that's changedin the last 10 years, 15 years?
'cause I can remember when Istarted doing the job that I
have now.
I worked in a hospital with allof the ER doctors and nurses.

(21:08):
And those people were hardcore.
And if you even mentionedsomething like I, you know, felt
kind of sad.
Then there was just a wholebunch of like shit that you had
to deal with, like hardcore.
Like they would take me todinner or lunch and try to make
me gag, like the first one whowould say something disgusting
enough for me to actual realgag.
Then that person got their lunchfor free.

(21:29):
So there wasn't a whole lot of,oh yeah, this is hard and kind
of traumatic.
And there would be people whowould be in their car crying and
everyone would just walk pastand be like, well, we don't see
you.
Do you think that's movedforward at all, or do you think
there's still a lot of, uh oh,we don't wanna talk about it,
we're just gonna act real toughand make jokes about eyeballs?
I do think it's

Sam (21:48):
changed.
I think that the newergeneration of nurses are a lot
more vocal about.
Their struggles.
I've had staff come into myoffice and say, I'm really
anxious today, or I'm having abad day.
I'm not okay.
Whereas my older nurses don'tnecessarily say those things out
loud.
So I think it's the generationof nursing and with the influx

(22:08):
of the newer nurses, we'reseeing a lot more of that
openness.
I will say it was kind of a partof both generations of nurses
because when I started, all ofthe people that precepted me
were the older generationnurses.
And then as I've progressedthrough Covid, we all were a lot
more open because there was nofilter.
We could say what we wantedbecause there were no visitors
in the hospital, there were nofamily members.

(22:29):
So we could talk about thisstuff at the nurses station
without the shame of it, Iguess, is kind of really where
we have a hard timetransitioning into that new
phase where we're open aboutthings.

Chris (22:40):
Yeah, I think it just in general, I think that that's
exactly the case in, in a lot ofplaces that, you know, we are,
we are seeing it kind of, uh,kind of move in a positive
direction, which I love.
So we can start talking about,wow, I do not feel okay today.
I do not feel like I am on topof it and I'm not gonna cover
that up with 18, uh, penisjokes, which I like better than

(23:02):
the eyeball jokes myself, but.
Fucking

Sarah (23:05):
penis jokes are funny, man.
They are,

Sam (23:07):
eyeballs are my boss's ick.
He came, he doesn't like theeyeballs.
He doesn't like working with theeyeballs, and he was a trauma
nurse, so, oh God.
I bet he saw a lot of hangingeyeballs.
He did see a lot of hangingeyeballs.
That's probably why he doesn'tlike it.
Yep.
Not for me.
No, thank you.
Yeah.

Sarah (23:23):
No, no, there's nothing.
Nothing about being a nurse.
The two things I know I couldnever do nursing and teaching.
I was actually majoring ineducation when I first went to
school.
Talk about not knowing yourself.
Jesus.

Sam (23:39):
Get, uh, both of those degrees because my master's is
in nursing education and I'm anurse, so why not take the best
of both worlds

Sarah (23:46):
baffling to me, fucking baffling.
So since you're the manager,like what going, staying on the
same lines as how copingmechanisms and how, how you guys
are able to cope, andspecifically the older nurses
and the younger nurses comingin, how do you manage them
differently?
Is there certain, do you have toreally, I don't know what I'm

(24:09):
trying to say.
The older ones who are justlike, no, I'm a tough bitch.
I could deal with this.
Do you have to be like, okay,you don't have to deal with it,
or do you just let them go?
It's

Sam (24:19):
a little bit of both.
Um, with the older nursesspecifically, there's that fine
line of I'll offer you resourcesand I'll be your sounding board
if you need it.
I'm always here, but don't feelobligated if you have other
outlets of your own to take careof these things, because a lot
of them do.
A lot of them have that outsideof work, which I think a lot of
our new nurses also do, but theyjust don't know how to hone in

(24:42):
on those resources just yet.
So with them, I tend to walkthat line where I'm here, I'm
always an ear, let me know andyou rhyme.
Other that I don't typically,um, I'm here and I have an ear.
Oh, that's gonna be my newslogan.
I wanna put it on a t-shirt

Sarah (24:58):
as you should.

Sam (24:59):
But no, really, honestly, I, I give them that outlet if
they need it, but I know myself,I didn't take that when I
started in nursing and I left alot of that stuff internal,
which I think slowed me down tosome extent as I learned to be
an ICU nurse.
And then my newer nurses, theyjust come in and they just,
yeah, pull their guts.
And I'm like, okay, this, I canwork with this.
I can tell you how to fix this.

(25:20):
I can help you find a fix for.
So it's a little bit easier towork with the newer nurses.
No offense to my older, my oldergeneration nurses.
We love

Sarah (25:29):
you.
Older generation.
You're not old, you're just partof the older generation.
That's how we talk aboutourselves.
'cause I'm in that generation,I'm pretty sure.
Anyway, I'm, I'm gonna go, I'mactually gonna go personal Okay.
From, uh, nursing shit.
So I know that you have anxietylike I do and we love the Xanax.
We love the Xanax, but you knowwhat I, I don't know when you

(25:52):
figured that out.
Have you always suffered fromanxiety?
When did you,'cause I knowmedication was new for you, so I
don't know, give us your storywhen it comes to personal mental
health.

Sam (26:03):
So for me, I think around six or seven was when I really
realized that like I had anaversion to certain things that
would like make me feeldifferent.
I had a healthcare experienceunironically when I was a kid,
that I had to have a colonoscopyvery young.
Yeah, it was terrible.
And I was also, for all intentsand purposes, every time I would

(26:25):
use the restroom, I would bleed.
And I'm six at the time, sofairly traumatic.
Now as an adult looking at it,I'm like, that's not that bad.
But when you're six, it's.
Part of, you know, yourdeveloping brain and that should
suck to, and I still think aboutit to some extent as an adult,
which is why I have a tendencyto not pursue healthcare and not

(26:45):
get my labs done.
And my husband will yell at meall the time about it.
And you know, I'm the worstpatient as a nurse on top of it
too.

Sarah (26:51):
Y'all are, y'all are.
We really are.

Sam (26:53):
Mm-hmm.
I think it's collectively, thoseof us in healthcare don't like
to seek out healthcare, but thatwas the first time I really
noticed that it started.
I grew up in a single parenthousehold, so.
My mom has always been supersupportive.
She's always helped me try tofind outlets.
And then as I got throughschool, you know, junior high,
high school, I lost my aunt.
She was not technically my auntby blood.
She was just my mom's bestfriend of 36 years.

(27:15):
So I grew up with her.
So it was traumatic to watchthat.
And then every little piece ofmy life had some kind of trauma
attached to it that I think justformulated this.
Portion of my brain that alreadyexisted because anxiety is
hereditary and my, there arepeople in my family that
struggle with anxiety.
So I think it kind of justblossomed from there with
traumatic events in to, and notto say that my life was

(27:36):
terrible.
I have a wonderful mother and Igrew up in a wonderful household
and my family's super supportiveand my husband's family's super
supportive.
Though they may not understandit completely, Dan took the time
to like learn about it when wefirst started dating and did
research on it and understood itat that level so that now when I
have those moments of anxiety,he's able to support me in the

(27:56):
best way possible.
For me, it's always kind of beenlingering.
It was just, I think traumaticevents as I grew up really
formed how I am today.

Sarah (28:05):
When did you start meds?
Because I feel like that's afairly recent, or am I just a
terrible sister-in-law and Ijust never paid attention.

Sam (28:11):
No.
So I originally, I had alwaysneeded something PRM or as
needed when I would go to likethe dentist or whatever.
Mind you, my mom works in adental office, so Yeah, that's
right.
Somehow my biggest fear is thedentist.
So she would, um, when I, whenshe would make me appointment,
she would get me to make sure Ihad my meds and something just
to kind of ease the anxiety ofgetting a cavity filled or

(28:33):
whatever.
And then as I started toprogress through Covid and
towards the end of Covid when itreally started to slow down, is
when I started Zoloft.
And, you know, no offense toanybody that takes Zoloft, it
just wasn't for me.
I didn't like it.
I liked that it quieted my braina lot of the time, but I just
didn't feel like I was gettingbetter.
So we, I talked to my PCP, whois a great friend of mine, takes

(28:54):
care, really great care of meand my family.
I had asked him, I said, youknow, I just don't, I'm still
having these moments of whereI'm backsliding and I'm having
these anxiety attacks.
And then you, you know, if youhave anxiety, you slide into
that depression because you'relike, what's wrong with my
brain?
Why am I broken?
When in reality you're notbroken, you're just, you just
think different.

Sarah (29:12):
Mm-hmm.

Sam (29:12):
And he had suggested trying Xanax and he gave me a really
low dose of it and one script.
And I don't rely on it unlessI'm flying or I'm having an
absolute meltdown, which I hadrecently.
And poor Dan got the brunt ofit, but he handled it like a
champ.
But I just, I never wanted torely on medication and not
saying that there's anythingwrong with that, I just felt
like, yeah.

(29:33):
I wasn't connecting the piecesof what made me anxious when I
was medicating with things.

Sarah (29:39):
Yeah.
And that makes sense.
And, and I think that's veryvalid.
It's, I think most of us don'twanna rely on the meds, but I
think we all realize that that'snot the same for everybody.
And it's, it's also part of themajor challenge with mental
health in general, and we talkedabout that a lot earlier in the
podcast, is how much it sucksthat it takes so long to find

(29:59):
that balance.
If you are someone who's goingto take meds and the meds are
really what can help you just tofind the right medication, the
balance of the medications, it'sa, it's a tough road.

Sam (30:09):
And I also think that there's not enough resources out
there to, for the people thatdon't wanna take meds or maybe
don't mm-hmm.
The same benefits frommedications.
There's not enough mental healthresources out there to really
hone in on what are the thingsthat we can do to improve it.
Not just your standard talktherapy.

(30:29):
There's not enough studies,there's not enough information
because I feel like anxiety andmental health in general got
swept under the rug for a reallylong time and now it's kind of
back in the forefront of things.
So I think that's a big thingtoo, is that it's either
medication or nothing.
You're right.
Raw dogging life or you're can'tsee your hand in front of your
face.
I mean, I don't know.

(30:50):
Yeah,

Sarah (30:50):
I mean it's, it's, that's the shit we talk about because I
mean, I'm 46 years old.
I've been on medication for avery long time and I've gone on
and off the meds and my poorsister can attest to this.
I should never go off the meds.
Me going off the meds is not agood idea.
And the last time I went off themeds was 16, almost 16 years
ago, right when I had Owen.

Sam (31:11):
Yeah.
So like you shouldn't have tofeel like you can't.
Function with that.
Yeah.
Like I feel like society as awhole, and this is kind of like
my soapbox, I think society hasmade it so that we feel like we
can't get better.
And if make it better for you,that's awesome and I'm happy for
you.
'cause I love the person thatyou are on or off the meds.

(31:32):
So that's, that's what you wannado.
But there's no resources forsomebody like me who's maybe
like, I don't know if I wanna, Idon't wanna

Sarah (31:38):
do that.
Right.
But, and that's what, and I takethe long way of getting thing,
getting to things because I wasalways just given meds.
Mm-hmm.
And they work for me and that'sgreat.
And I will continue to do them.
But honestly, in the last yearI've been, I've lessened, I've
taken one of my meds out.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's because of whatwe're doing here and because I'm
finding alternative ways ofdealing with stuff and I don't

(32:01):
know if that has to,'cause I'veheard of meditation and all of
that shit, you know, prior todoing this podcast.
But I also thought it was a jokebecause that's just, just how I
was.
So I don't know if that'smaturity that you get in there,
but there's, there's a ton ofdifferent ways.
It's not just meditation, thatseems to be one of the things
that has helped me.
But I 100% agree with youbecause I have a thousand

(32:22):
pamphlets on medication.
I don't have one pamphlet onwhat I can do outside of
medication.
Yeah, I can go to therapy and Ido go to therapy.
But honestly now that, and it'sweird that we never talked about
this before, but just now I'mthinking, I don't think my
therapist ever gives me likealternative ways of dealing with
it.
Like we just talk.

Sam (32:42):
And for some people that work super well, like, yeah,
yeah.
Medi meditation, medicationdoesn't matter what it is.
And like as a nurse, it's hardto sit here and say, oh no, I
don't necessarily love the ideaof medication because.
I'm a legal drug dealer for allintents and purposes of, of
meds.
No, I I think that there areways to heal yourself from

(33:03):
within because the wounds aren'toutside and to acknowledge them,
the wounds that are inside aretend, they tend to be the
deepest and the hardest torecover from.
But you need more than just amedication or an antibiotic or
whatever.
You need that buffer of thingsto help you heal from a wound
internally.
So it doesn't mean thatmedication is the end all be

(33:24):
all.
Yeah,

Sarah (33:24):
for sure.
I love how you put that.
Damn.
You should have a podcast.

Chris (33:31):
Turns out it's easy to do

Sarah (33:32):
shit seriously for a whole year.
That's real for the love.
So kind of going on that backinto the nursing line of things,
do you have any personal ritualsor hacks or anything like that
that you do specifically whenyou're heading into work, when
you know that there's a specificrough thing that might be
coming?
I say rough thing A, a terrible,I don't, how do you put that?

(33:55):
A dying human being coming yourway.
What?
What do you do to prepareyourself and your team in
situations like that?

Sam (34:02):
Well, I think the nice thing about healthcare, well for
some people it's not nice, butfor us in the ICU that every day
is like a choose your ownadventure day.
So I never go in expecting theexact same thing to happen
yesterday that happened the daybefore.
The day after.
Mm-hmm.
Like I never go in expectingthings to be okay.
I don't expect the worst.
I kind of expect that middleground of, if nobody dies today,

(34:24):
it was a good day.
If somebody dies today, maybe itwas their time, but did my team
facilitate it in a comfortablemanner?
Did we make sure the family wassupported?
Did I make sure my team wassupported when I go into work?
Those are the things I thinkabout.
It's like, how can I show up foreveryone else when things get
hard?
So, no, today might not be thegreatest day, but did I show up

(34:45):
for my team?
Did I show up for my, mypatients?
Did I show up for the hospitalthat I work for and did I.
Exude what it is that they lookfor in leadership and management
and as a bedside nurse.
And then, you know, I thinkabout my family to some extent
too, and it's terrible to say,but if my family were in that
ICU would I want me as themanager or me as the bedside

(35:07):
nurse.
Am I teaching my team the rightthings?
Am I showing them the right waysto do these things?
So my hack isn't, there is nohack.
It's just reflecting on the mostimportant things that you can
bring to the table as a bedsidenurse and what you can do to
positively impact your patientsand their families.
Because sometimes you're thelast space that they'll ever

(35:27):
see.
And it's really sad and itbreaks our hearts and it breaks
their heart.
But as long as they left therewith some peace in a terrible
situation, that's how I go intomy day.
How can I make my team peaceful?
How can I make my patientspeaceful?
And how do I bring myself peaceat the end of the day?

Sarah (35:42):
I think it, I think that you are older than me and we
don't know it.
Like the, just the level ofmaturity and resilience that you
speak with is, it's not that Ididn't know this shit about you
before, but I don't know, you'rewhat, like 15 years younger than
me?

Sam (35:58):
33 in July, so close to it.
Yeah.

Sarah (36:01):
Yeah.
No, I'm not doing the math,

Sam (36:02):
but yeah, that's, it's

Sarah (36:04):
very, you are an, an impressive individual, Samantha.
Yeah.
That's, that's just a level ofshit that I would never think of
before the last year, honestly.
You talk about bringing thesepeople, other people piece and
the people that work for youpiece and the family's piece and
yourself piece, and I'm like,man, I'm real fucking sad.
Like sucks.
I make no

Sam (36:24):
mistake.
It took me a long time to gethere jokingly, you know, say
that.
Well, I don't even say itjokingly.
You know, Dan is my person andif you're a Grey Anatomy fan,
you get the reference of they'remy person.
But like when Dan came in intomy, are you shaking your head?
Watch I it when it was er

Sarah (36:43):
a dick need.

Sam (36:45):
For those of you who don't know the reference, there's two
characters and they talk abouthow they're each other's person.
And when I met Dan, I had juststarted.
I was getting ready to startnursing school, so he has been
through some of the highest ofhighs and the lowest of lows
with me.
And for me, when I think aboutall of the things that bring me
peace, it centers around him, itcenters around my mom, it

(37:06):
centers, centers around myfamily dynamics.
So to be able to adjust myselfthroughout the years and move
forward with someone in TOW thatunderstands what I'm going
through has made me come to therealization that I need to do
that for other people too, ifthat makes sense.
I'm rambling

Sarah (37:23):
100%.

Chris (37:23):
No, no, no.
You're not rambling at all.
I mean, a part of We're the

Sarah (37:27):
of rambling.

Chris (37:27):
Oh my God.
We have a whole podcast aboutit.
We, we could have done this awhole year's worth of podcasts
probably in like four sentences.
And, and yet, here we are.
Right?
Can't shut us up.
But I think some of what you'resaying, Sam, is a lot of what,
like the conclusions that we'vecome to is like lining yourself
up for, you know, be where,where you are with your, with

(37:49):
your values.
This stuff is important to me.
So what I'm gonna do is I'mgonna show up in the way that
that makes it so that everybodycan do what, what they have to
do.
These are the people that areimportant to me.
These are the things that areimportant to me.
And being able to, um.
You know, approach your lifewhere, uh, where you have those
things kind of lined up makes iteasier for you to keep your eye

(38:12):
on your mental wellbeing.
I think.
And I think in certainprofessions, a lot of that is,
uh, is really in front of youall the time, right?
In order to get through the day,I have to have this dark sense
of humor.
But I also have to have peoplewho will underneath that really
understand support and help meto, to do this thing that I,
that I really love to do.

(38:32):
There are some professions whereyou can kind of fake the funk
for a little bit, but there areothers where you have to pay a
lot of attention to your mentalhealth'cause it's being attacked
all day.
And if you're not in a placewhere, where you're able to find
that support, then it is a, itis a big struggle, right?
So most definitely, definitely.
Yeah.
Definitely.
I feel like Sarah's gettingthere.

Sarah (38:53):
Yeah.
I mean she, she had all thisshit figured out and I Right.
You were like, I don't, I don'tknow what's important to me.
She didn't even have to do apodcast or coaching.
No.
I had to start my own fuckingpodcast, get a personal coach,
and I still don't know what thefuck I'm doing.
I still don't know what mypurpose is.

Sam (39:11):
Listen, there are times I come home from work and I'm
like, what the fuck did I justdo all day?
Why do I do it?
I think there are moments wherein time where you find your
purpose and it makes sense andyou're ready to go, and you
greet the day with that attitudeand then you get home and you're
like, Nope, what

Sarah (39:26):
just happened?
But that, I mean, that's theother thing that we talk about
is that, that these thingschange.
Mm-hmm.
I am always jealous of someonelike yourself who seems, who are
passionate about their job andthey really enjoy their job.
And, and this is, this is trulytheir purpose and, and they love
what they do and they have acommitment to it.
'cause I've just never been thatexcited about railroad ties.

(39:48):
Like, I mean, I, I can't get itup for the railroad ties.
I'm sorry.
So I'm just, yeah.
It's, it's amazing to me.
I get jealous, but it's alsoinspirational to me because it
doesn't matter how old I am, Ican still change and find
things.
So I'm fine and then I'll getthere one of these days

Sam (40:05):
we, I'll get there.

Sarah (40:07):
I don't know.
I like myself.
That's like what I figured outso far.

Chris (40:11):
Right.
The things that I like and I'mpassionate about, me being
happy.
Me, me,

Sarah (40:18):
me.

Sam (40:18):
It's okay.
Me, you gotta be selfishsometimes

Sarah (40:22):
macho, like, I don't know.
Okay.

Sam (40:26):
Real sound.
He wasn't at the St.
Patty's Day party.

Sarah (40:29):
We're having some problems with Majo now.
Um, I'm gonna have to do someresearch.
He seems to have slipped on thehardwood floor or the fake
hardwood floor, whatever youcall that floor that we have.
And he is now afraid of thehardwood floor.

Chris (40:44):
She says So funny, Mary.
So he will,

Sarah (40:46):
Joseph, do you have to carry literal him

Chris (40:49):
everywhere now?

Sarah (40:50):
I'm trying to force him.
I, but it's so sad'cause he willliterally stand at the end of
the area rug and bark and getand like cry.
I tried to line up, like I gotold rugs that we had downstairs
and I tried to line the monsterwindow.
This is what I do.
I spoil the dog, but he doesn'tlike the new carpets or rugs.

(41:12):
They were a different texture.

Chris (41:14):
So my dog has autism.
It's okay.
Lots of pets do.
I think Uno does.
He's on the spectrum for sure.
That cat is

Sarah (41:20):
man.
Yeah.
I'm like, dude, what?
Like I thought at first baby hewas just having, I thought there
were some spirits in the house.
'cause I totally believe thedogs see that shit.
I know with our old dog, jigs,jigs was, he was in touch with
the spirits in both of ourhouses, and I knew it.
And so I thought that that'swhat it was.
But, um, unless, unless hethinks the spirits are coming

(41:41):
out of the hardwood floor, itit, to me, it appears that he
has, he has developed anaversion to the hardwood floor
and I don't know how to fixthat.
I'm gonna have to.
What's that?
He's not little enough for that,but maybe a backpack.
I don't know.

Sam (41:59):
There is, um, a dog that I have followed for years on
TikTok that they created abackpack for Maxine MCC Corgi.
So I might have to check it outby macho backpack.

Chris (42:14):
Maxine, how can

Sam (42:15):
you imagine

Chris (42:16):
for all everyday use?
Like, just how is he going toeat?
Well, we put the dog down whenhe gotta eat.
She won't.
Yeah, she won't.
Sam, you know, she won't, she'lljust carry ice just like

Sam (42:26):
this on the shoulder, right?
I mean, I'm pretty sure Maxinehas received treats while in the
back.

Sarah (42:31):
I'm fairly certain I have spoiled this dog.

Chris (42:34):
I'm picturing it more on the front.
Like

Sarah (42:36):
a, like a, yeah.
Wow.
And he could just lick yourface.
Mm-hmm.
If he's on the front.
Wow.
There you go.
God.
Yeah.
We have to bring the food intothe living room now on the
carpet.
Yeah.
Fuck that.
That dog's not getting.
Just

Sam (42:51):
get a baby backpack and put him in it.
That's refurbished ones I thinkon that website.
They do like the refurbishedones that like didn't
refurbished re Yeah, no punintended.
I think they literally say like,they may come with dog glitter.
So, wow.
Wow.
Space making my head hurt.

Sarah (43:08):
Sorry.
I was asking Sam if she knew ofany ways that I could deal with
my anxious dog.
She seems to be much moreknowledgeable and in tune than I
am.

Sam (43:17):
So one of my best is a vet tech, so let me know if he Nice.

Sarah (43:21):
Yeah, I'm gonna see what Google tells me.
Um, I just go out of sight andkeep yelling for him to come to
me and eventually I say treatand he's like, okay.
And then, but if you watch him,I'm gonna have to record it.
'cause he, now, it's like everytime the carpet comes or the,
the hardwood floor comes intoplace, like he hesitates and

(43:43):
he's like, and then when hislittle feet touch the hardwood
floor, he gets skittles likenow.
Yeah, it's rough.
It's rough.
He's definitely not living up tohis name at all.

Sam (43:56):
Opposite of macho.
Yep.

Sarah (43:58):
I guess that's like the calling the the big dog, tiny.
Right?
That's what's happened.
Alright, back to real things.
Let's see, let's see.
We're getting close to the endhere with my questions.
Which one of these do I want to,I wanna ask both of them.
I think if you had a, if youcould wave a magic wand and fix
one thing about how the systemtreats healthcare workers, what

(44:18):
would it be?

Sam (44:19):
That's a loaded question.
'cause there's a lot ofdifferent things that I would
like to change in the healthcaresystem as far as the healthcare
workers are concerned.

Sarah (44:26):
Let me restate the question.

Sam (44:28):
Name as many as you want.
I think the biggest thing isjust the overall acknowledgement
of how hard we work and how ourvoices need to be heard too.
Whether it's.
As far as like improving safetyin the hospital or improving the
units with, you know, when theycome in and do the, the fixing

(44:50):
of the lights or whatever.
Like, they don't ask nurses whatthey would like to see done in
some of our patient rooms.
They're small, there's notenough room for the equipment.
So I think just the overall ideathat let our voices be heard
too.
'cause we are the ones at thebedside for the longest.
You know, I love my docs.
I work with some of the greatestdoctors I have ever been around.

(45:12):
They're the smartest, they'rethe most knowledgeable, but
they're not at the bedside.
As long as my staff is and aslong as I've been, they don't
always hear us.
So I think just kind of thatrespect would be one of the
biggest things I'd change.

Sarah (45:23):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And I, I don't, I mean, me beingnot a healthcare worker or a
nurse, it, like, you don't thinkof those things though.
Like, you really don't like theamount of time that you're, you
are bedside, the amount of timethat you're in that environment
is way more than than.
What the doctors are seeing andyeah, that totally makes sense.
So kind of the same question,but out to us general public,

(45:44):
like what are the things, what'ssomething that you feel we
should know about you as anurse, your team, something that
we might not consider?
Does that make sense?

Chris (45:56):
Yeah, it makes sense.
You could

Sarah (45:57):
tell I made that question on myself.
I didn't ask chat sheet forthat, that GPD didn't help

Chris (46:01):
at

Sam (46:01):
all.

Sarah (46:03):
Because it didn't make any fucking sense.
But go ahead.

Sam (46:06):
I think the, the biggest thing for the general public is,
is that we're trained for this.
We are trained professionals.
And it's not to diminish, youknow, your fear as a family
member or the things that youare questioning because nine
times out of 10, like, you knowthat person better than we do
and you're gonna catch it.
But let us get through theprocess of getting them the
things that they need.
'cause we see it from adifferent angle.

(46:27):
I also wish to some extent thatthe general public would
understand that, you know, we,we carry this shit home.
At the end of the day, itdoesn't matter how good you are
at compartmentalizing or howgood you are at leaving work at
the door before you walk in thedoor of to your house, we still
think about that family member.
We still think like, what couldI have done differently?

(46:47):
What could I have done better?
Could I have advocated harder?
Could I have pushed thisphysician to do different?
Tests or scans or whatever,we're still human and we still
carry that stuff home.
And we think about you guys andyou know, we think about you
when your family member haspassed and you know,

Sarah (47:02):
we

Sam (47:03):
send our condolences and we pray.
If you're a prayer person, wepray.
And if you're not someone whoprays and you just think about
them and hope that whatever istheir soul is, you know, in a
good place, we're still people.
So we're doing the best that wecan in the situations that we're
doubt.
It's not always pretty and it'snot always the best outcome.

(47:25):
But you can't, you can't get madat us.
You can get mad at us to someextent, but you can't lash out
at us.

Sarah (47:32):
Well, so now I have another question on top of that.
Sorry, Christine, if you haveany questions.
I'm, I'm on it now I'm intoRight,

Chris (47:38):
right.
You're in it a year and

Sarah (47:39):
a half.

Chris (47:40):
This is what we need and I'll never have to talk again.

Sarah (47:45):
So I imagine that there are times when you encounter
families who are trying to tellyou what to do and what is the
best way to go about, like they,they do know this person better
than you do, and they do really,they're very convicted that you
need to hear something.
What's the best way for thatperson to go about that and have
you guys here?
I guess

Sam (48:05):
So what's nice in, in our ICU, we have like a formalized
process with myself and mycounterpart and my boss.
We all are.
Trained in a, a certain style ofnursing, I guess, um, where
we're able to have these kind ofbridge conversations where we're
the advocate for the family aswell as the patient to our

(48:25):
physicians.
Now we're really lucky.
Like I said, we have a reallygreat physician team.
I work in a non-teachinghospital, so I don't have
residents, I don't have interns,I just have attendings and
that's it.
And a lot of them have beendoing this for a very long time.
So I don't get a lot of thepushback that maybe some of
these teaching facilities do.
So our job is to help kind offacilitate that conversation
between the physician or theother teams that are involved in

(48:47):
this patient's care and get thefamily members the answers to
the questions that they have.
A lot of the times inhealthcare, everything is slow,
just like everywhere else.
So we may not have all of theanswers, but we're able to kind
of corral the family and saylike, okay, we don't have the
answers right now, but let'smeet tomorrow at noon with the
critical care physician andpalliative care and bring them
both in and we can talk throughthe results of this test if we

(49:09):
have them.
By that time.
So I think leaning on moreexperienced in, for hospitals
that don't have this program,leaning more on your charge.
Nurses who have experience thatcan kind of handle those
conversations.
'cause that's what kind of leadsyou into leadership is being a
charge nurse.
So like I had a lot ofexperiences as a charge nurse.
Some of my most favorite nursesthat I work with, I've been in

(49:30):
charge nurses since I was born,lean on, just feel old to
facilitate those conversationsand kind of temper the, all the
flares of all the differentfires.

Sarah (49:41):
Gotcha.
Christine, do you have aquestion?

Chris (49:45):
No, I was listening to that and um, it's so interesting
to me, like all of, uh, like theway that people decide to get
into this and the way thatpeople decide to stay in this is
just amazing.
Do you, speaking of that,

Sarah (50:01):
do you see a lot of people that come in Sam and
they're like, fuck this shit,I'm out.
Like, or by the time they get toyou, they're pretty committed to

Sam (50:08):
it.
I would say a lot of the times,by the time my nurses get to me.
Now, that's not to say that likewe hired a ton of graduate
nurses, like fresh out ofcollege, brand new to the
healthcare field, not jaded, nota chip on their shoulders.
Sweet, shiny and bright,

Sarah (50:25):
sweet and shiny.

Sam (50:26):
Not so much me.
Um, but we do see a lot of them.
Like they're ready for ICU.
They, you know, they did theiryear of progressive care, they
did their year of floor nursing.
They know what it means to be anurse.
And then they come to the ICUand they're like, shit, did I
really wanna do this?
Yeah.
And then they, those like stringof good days where they feel
like they're helping and theyfeel like they're doing a lot,
which they are.
And then it kind of renews your,your faith in, in that

(50:49):
particular role.
But I will say when Covid hitsome of my most senior nurses
left, like truly.
And I know that we talk aboutCovid a lot in general in
healthcare, and it's four years,five years later and we're still
talking about it, but I lost alot of great nurses to covid.
Do you think it's a bad

Sarah (51:05):
thing that we're, I'm sorry, I interrupted.
Do you think it's a bad thingthat we're still talking about
covid?
Like I, I think that we need to,I think that we should

Sam (51:12):
be talking about like, or tired of, of hearing about it in
the sense that like, okay, we'veprogressed, we've gotten through
the worst of it.
It's still pretty bad, but it'snot as bad as it was in March of
2020 where people were dyingfaster than we could keep up
with.
Yeah.
So I think it's with anything,any pandemic, like you start to

(51:32):
see the light at the end of thetunnel and that's where we're
now.
So people are tired of hearingabout it because it was pretty
much beat over our heads.
'cause we had nothing better tolisten to.

Sarah (51:41):
Yeah.
I mean it was boring time.
Not for us.
I was just gonna say, so wherewere you?
Where were you?
When, where were you five yearsago?

Sam (51:51):
Um, I was in Vegas with Dan, uh, March of 2020.
We had flown, we flew, hello?
Flew, flown, flown, I think forlike, either one works,

Sarah (52:00):
I mean, whatever.

Sam (52:01):
We had been in Vegas with his company for like, you know,
a week or so.
Everything was kind of likefiltering into the United States
where they were like, oh, we'regonna shut down international
flights.
And then it was, oh, we may shutdown domestic flights.
And I looked at him in our hotelroom and I was like, how in the
hell are we getting home if theyshut down domestic flights?
Like, I need extra Xanax.

(52:22):
So luckily we were, we were ableto make it home and literally
days after we got home, theentire biggest trip was shut
down.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, the world wentdark.
We just gotten home.
Um, I stayed away from myfamily.
He stayed away from his family.
Like we didn't go out.
Um, yeah.
And then I walked into workright after my time off and we
had our first suspected Covidpatient, and it was a younger

(52:44):
kid, ended up having a.
Vaping injury, lung injury thatthey thought originally was
covid because we didn't know awhole lot about Covid at the
time.
So I mean, full stop.
We had the isolation room, wehad the negative pressure.
We thought that he had covid andeverything came back negative,
thankfully.
And then after him, it was likethe whole world exploded in our
ICU and we were typically a 16bed unit.

(53:07):
We opened up one of our extraICU pods that is like not really
functional.
It's functional in the sensethat we can see patients in it,
but we don't need it.
We became a 24 bed unit.
One side was like the cleaneverybody's, no, no covid.
One side was suspected and oneside was full.
So yeah,

Sarah (53:24):
that had to be, I mean, it was a crazy time for
everybody being in healthcarethough.
I can't even, it was wild.
I can't even imagine.
I mean, it may have almost beenlike living with your
mother-in-law in a, anapartment, but I mean, almost,

Sam (53:38):
I don't know.

Sarah (53:39):
My

Sam (53:39):
mother-in-law was so.

Chris (53:42):
It was the best of times for me.
It's okay.

Sarah (53:44):
I love the fact that there was nobody like out on the
road.
I like the fact that like Icould go pick up my groceries
and I didn't have to yell atpeople.
Everybody was living a

Chris (53:54):
hermit.
It was amazing.
Yeah.
I did puzzles and people werelike, wow, that'ss weird.

Sarah (53:59):
Yeah.
Remember you couldn't find apuzzle Like you could not,
right.
You had to

Chris (54:03):
like buy them at

Sarah (54:03):
Goodwill.

Chris (54:04):
It was insane thing.
Remember that?

Sarah (54:07):
Yes.
Yes.
I didn't, I did not watch theTiger King.

Chris (54:10):
Oh my God.
It was way better than er.

Sarah (54:15):
No.
I watched Chimp Crazy.
Did you watch that yet,Christine?
I know.
I told you to watch Chimp Crazy.
You gotta watch Chimp Crazy ifyou watch Tiger.
Haven't watched

Chris (54:23):
anything.
I haven't

Sarah (54:23):
watched anything.
It's on Sam, it's on Max.
And I really want you to watchChimp.
Crazy.
Isn't that like had, uh, amonkey and that ripped her face
off?
That's part of it.
Because that's part of talkingabout why we shouldn't own them.
Just a little bit about it.
But it's about a woman.
It's about they think thatthey're doing good for these
animals and they're, they'renot.

(54:44):
And um, yeah.
It's about how fucking crazythis lady is.
Like she's fucking bonkers.
Yeah.
You would really like Tiger Kingthen.
I feel like I just can't withthat guy.
My

Chris (54:53):
God, it's the best part.
He makes the whole damn show.
I am never gonna financiallyrecover from this.
I

Sam (55:01):
said that all the time.

Sarah (55:02):
All right, well Noah and I are running out things to
watch, so maybe, maybe I'llsuggest that.
'cause I don't think he's everwatched it either.

Sam (55:09):
We just watched Barry on Max.
If you've not watched it.
So good.

Sarah (55:13):
So good.
Becca has seen it.
Becca, you're allowed to unmuteand participate.
It's fine.

Chris (55:18):
You could just delete yourself later.
I mean, not in a bad way.
Not in, not in a, oh God, it's

Sam (55:23):
terrible.
It was really good.
I was pleasantly surprised.
However, I was a littledisappointed in the last
episode.
Not gonna not dam it.
Damn it.

Sarah (55:32):
Yeah.
I'm gonna have to check it out.
I was miserable for like a yearafter Game of Thrones.
Yeah.
I didn't watch Game of Thronesand now I will never watch Game
of Thrones.
Not just because of you, butbecause of everybody else and
how it ended.
I'm like, well obviously I'm notinvesting the time in that.
It was worth the watch

Chris (55:47):
even with, do you want me just to tell you the plot of the
books?
'cause I could do that.

Sarah (55:51):
Well I think you started with the books and I started
reading the books like,'causeyou said you have to read the
books and it was ta like, thebeginning of it was terrible and
made me sad and there was death.

Chris (56:01):
It doesn't get any bad.
It's like having a, it doesn't

Sarah (56:03):
get better from there.
A lot.
There was a lot of bad stuffthat made me feel bad and I was
like, I can't, this is, I need,I need to read a nonsensical,
spicy novel.
It's also an option.
Or I need to read more aboutVampires and dogs.
Yes.
Or wolves, whatever you callthem.
Where was

Chris (56:22):
series So good.
That's why Sarah reads booksnow.

Sarah (56:26):
What?
Twilight.
Yeah, that's the first book.
That's the first series like Iever got into outside of school.
What about Harry Potter?
We're just gonna leave that oneout there.
I read that after I readTwilight.
'cause Twilight is literally thefirst series.
I was 30 years old.
I had just had Owen and that wasthe first time like that was.
It's a big deal in our marriage.
'cause Noah's like, when we gotmarried you didn't read.

(56:47):
Now that's all you do.
And I don't like it'cause Idon't read.
Yeah.
But twilight's what started it.
Yeah.
There you go.
This, this is the ne this isgonna be my next one.

Sam (56:55):
I have heard so many people read these books and I, I can't,
I can't bring myself to do it.
I'm actually right now reading abook about a girl that works in
the morgue sot escape thethings.
Yeah.
I mean,

Sarah (57:07):
hey, you're into it.

Sam (57:07):
Stick with what you know, what you like.
Right?
Yeah.
De always asks me, he's like,how do you go to work for 12
hours a day and come home andwatch the pit or watch er or
graze anatomy me?
I'm like, no, no, no.
It's probably'cause I like toyell at it and tell'em that
they're wrong, but.

Sarah (57:22):
That'll never happen.
I'm never making out with thatguy in the closet.

Sam (57:26):
Those closets are small myself.
You don't, you don't shockasystole.
You don't.
You don't, yeah.
No.
Okay.
Yeah.
So you're

Chris (57:34):
thinking different things than I am thinking.
Okay.
I'm like, I would definitelymake out with George Clooney in
a closet.

Sarah (57:40):
Yes.
Well, that's my problem with thelatest episode or latest
episode, latest season ofreacher.
Like, not like any of them arereally believable, but the
latest season of reacher islike, I've started to now look
at now and be like, no, itwouldn't happen.
It just wouldn't.
I don't, I can't even, I can'teven act like this is okay just
for film.
I can't, like, this is the mostridiculous thing I've ever seen.
Christine's stop.

(58:01):
I can't.
I am on mute then.
Yeah.
What's gonna trigger you?
Currently we're gonna, we'regonna wrap up.
Let's see.
I think I already asked thatone.
Um, all right, the last one,Sam, if someone is listening to
this and struggling right now,uh, from a nurse perspective,
what would you want them to hearfrom you?

Chris (58:22):
Cool.
That's a good

Sarah (58:23):
one.
That is a good one.
Provided somebody makes itthrough this whole thing and
listens to the end,

Sam (58:28):
Becca's gonna make it work.
I would have to say, if I wasthat nurse and I was that nurse
when I started as a gn, um, itwas really rough.
I had a really terrible unitdirector who made me feel like I
wasn't supposed to be where I'mat.
Um, I'd say to them like, truly,at the end of the day, it's the
impact that you have on yourpatients that matter.
It's not the formalities, it'snot the the surveys, it's not

(58:51):
the discharge surveys, it's notthe Press Ganey scores.
It's what you do for yourpatient in that moment when
they're at their most vulnerableand their most weak.
And if you can feel good aboutyourself and what you did for
them at the end of the day andgo home with your head up
knowing that you made an impact,whether they remember you or
not, but they remember the carethey received from you, if you
can go home knowing that, thenstick with it.

(59:13):
Because sometimes that's gonnabe the only thing that gets you
through a day.
Like, Hey, I changed, I changedthe trash bag in somebody's
room, but it had been unchangedfor days.
Now the room doesn't smell likefeet.
I don't know.
Like it's stupid shit.
Yeah.
That like I washed my patient'shair and braided it for them

(59:34):
Today.
The worst days can be horrible.
And you can see the worst thingshappen in a 12 hour shift and it
is unnerving.
But when you walk into anotherpatient's room and they're
smiling at you and you'vebraided their hair and you've
gotten them fresh water and youchanged the linens in their bed
and you gave them a bath becausethey haven't had a bath in days

(59:56):
and they can't bath themself,like, don't ever stop doing
those small things because thatwill make you feel like a super
per like a superpower at the endof the day.
Like you walk out and you'relike,

Sarah (01:00:06):
I'm a superhero.
I did it.
And I love that.
'cause I feel like most, mostnurses, I would guess, got into
it for those reasons to help.
I mean, that's what they wannado.
They want to be be the shininglight.

Sam (01:00:19):
I mean, we're often overlooked as the shining light
and a lot of, we're the punchingbags and like we've talked you
and I about

Sarah (01:00:27):
mm-hmm.

Sam (01:00:27):
Healthcare worker violence and, you know, not to dive into
that because I'm sure that'll bea whole other hour long
conversation that we can have.
Yeah.

Sarah (01:00:35):
It's a thing.

Sam (01:00:36):
We, we typically are the punching bags.
So like we don't go into itthinking that's what we're gonna
be, but if we can providesomething that impacts them in a
positive manner and they don'tfeel like they are alone or
scared, or no one cares aboutthem, then we've done our jobs.

Sarah (01:00:50):
Awesome.
Um, yeah, and I'll say again,you are more mature than I am
and.
Thank you for taking the time totalk to us today.
We really appreciate it.
Um, yeah, you continue to amazeme with how you deal with things
and we love it.
I love it.
I'm assuming that my sister andBecca also love it.

(01:01:10):
I'm just speaking for them, socheers.
And you

Chris (01:01:12):
deal with Sarah.
So, I mean, that is also, we onthe brightest

Sarah (01:01:15):
part of Sam and I are the brightest part of this

Sam (01:01:18):
family.
And let me tell you, I mean,Dan's standing in the kitchen.
He may disagree, I don't know.
He hurried up and away quietly.

Sarah (01:01:26):
We, we make this family fun, we make holidays.
This is true.
I mean, Noah and Danny andSteven are kind of funny
sometimes too on their own, but,and I, I mean, I guess you're
mom and, and Sue.
They're okay too, but, I mean,but, but really, and, and Jen,
Jennifer's great too.
Okay.
We'll just shut up.
Alright.
So Sam, what we're gonna do iswe're gonna stop recording, but
don't hang up yet.

(01:01:46):
Okay.
Stop the recording.