January 9, 2025 • 52 mins
Join Sarah and Christine as they kick off the New Year with laughter and mental wellness in the first episode of 2025! They delve into personal stories about meditation challenges during the holiday season, hilarious Christmas mishaps, and the unforgettable chaos of New Year’s Eve 2000 in Vegas. The duo also tackles the concept of FOPO (Fear of Other People's Opinions) using insights from Michael Gervais’ book 'The First Rule of Mastery.' Gain a deeper understanding of how FOPO impacts our lives and learn strategies to overcome it while laughing along the way. This episode is the perfect blend of humor and valuable mental wellness insights to start your year off right!
How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!
Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah (00:03):
Hello and welcome to the mental funny bone.
I'm Sarah
Chris (00:07):
And I'm Christine.
Sarah (00:10):
we are not mother.
We are not mental healthprofessionals.
If you need professional mentalhealth assistance, please take a
look at our show notes for somelinks or, dial nine eight eight
on your cellular telephone onyour mobile.
to episode one of 2025.
Chris (00:30):
whoop, whoop.
Here we are.
Sarah (00:32):
I feel like we've really entered into a new phase of the
podcast because we can startsaying shit like, but we're
recording this, like by the timethis
Chris (00:42):
By the time this drops, we will be well into the new
year.
Sarah (00:47):
I'm yeah.
Anyway.
So I think that's really fun.
Chris (00:52):
All right, before we get into, get into this, tell me how
your meditation's going.
it's Christmas time.
have you been doing, have youbeen doing it?
Sarah (01:00):
Again, I really suck if other people are in this house.
this is where I need to make aneffort.
Because at the beginning, Iwould, even when no one owned
here, I'd go downstairs and doit.
and now I, If they're in thishouse, I just don't do it.
I don't know why that's veryweird.
So I had a few days off, but Iam using the, wake up.
(01:21):
Is that what it is?
The wake up
Chris (01:22):
Waking up with Sam Harris?
Sarah (01:24):
Yes.
Yes.
I do.
I do love.
That app.
I find it fantastic.
especially the talking afterokay, this is what we just did.
Here's, let's talk a little bitabout this.
so I really do like that.
and I have not yet increased to2 times a day of meditating,
which I believe will be, on my.
(01:46):
List of things to do in 2025.
Chris (01:48):
Like, when you get back into a routine.
right now, it's Christmas break.
it's the Wild West around here.
I haven't sat down to have ameal since Christmas Eve.
I've just been eating hamliterally by the handful.
Sarah (02:00):
Yeah, as you pass the refrigerator like just, sticking
your hand into the handbag inthe refrigerator and walking
like stuffing it in your face Istopped for five seconds and was
like, hey, we have somehorserad.
Nope.
We don't all right
Chris (02:13):
nope, alright, I've seen
Sarah (02:15):
fistful of ham I got
Chris (02:16):
it's amazing.
I ate, I think maybe four timesyesterday, like four separate
times.
I got all the containers out andmade a plate.
the last one being just a plateof cookies at, 1030 last night,
cause I needed that.
Sarah (02:30):
I mentioned you, I did mention you yesterday at
Christmas dinner.
my brother in law made, filetand, prime rib.
And they were fucking unreal.
Like he got this new to, no, nottoaster, but as a smoker thing.
and we also had Brussels sproutsand scalloped potatoes, all
smoked, everything was smoked.
(02:50):
It was so freaking delicious.
And as we were eating, I waslike, we need to take a video
and send this to my sister, toshow her what we're eating while
she's eating cold fucking ham,but we didn't, it
Chris (03:04):
It was
Sarah (03:04):
was very nice.
I had a very good time.
I like the games that we played.
we might need to work on ourcompetitiveness.
I feel like as we get older, itgets worse.
Chris (03:13):
We're fine.
Sarah (03:14):
there's yelling.
And there, it's not like we wereever quiet.
But,
Chris (03:18):
there's also a fair amount of mocking, too, which.
Sarah (03:22):
Yeah.
And sometimes we have to explainwhat we're doing.
Chris (03:26):
to outsiders who didn't grow up playing Monopoly with
your father.
yeah, we had game nights when wewere little, your dad would play
Monopoly with us and just whoopour asses.
Sarah (03:38):
and make us feel bad about it, like on purpose.
And I feel like that, that thathas made me who I am today.
One of my proudest moments in mylife.
parenthood journey was beatingOwen at Monopoly.
Like I have proof of it.
I took pictures of it.
I shared them with people.
and I made him feel like shitabout it.
(03:58):
He was six.
Chris (04:00):
I feel like when I go into a competitive situation, to
this day, I will chooseviolence.
if it were possible to hitpeople during a board game, I
would do that.
I would
Sarah (04:11):
throw those little sorry pieces at them and hope it pokes
them in the eye
Chris (04:15):
Eight skate and donate is what our father would say while
we were, I don't know thecontext, but it might've
Sarah (04:24):
an eight didn't have any special meaning like it was just
eight.
But as soon as you got an eight,eventually all of us would just.
At the same time, eight, skateand donate.
Chris (04:37):
I think it goes back to his, undiagnosed attention
deficit problems.
Thank you.
Sarah (04:42):
but it drives Noah insane
Chris (04:45):
bright.
and just to set the recordstraight, I lost, you and I lost
to, a team comprised of ourchildren and David, my husband.
Sarah (04:56):
so I am not claiming defeat.
I don't, I refuse.
I fucking refuse.
I want to recount We gave himtoo much time for that last
fucking question.
He didn't know it.
We should have cut him off.
Daddy was real pissed off aboutit.
I'm not sure daddy will comeback to Christmas Eve because of
it.
Yeah.
Chris (05:14):
one of the things I admire most about David is he's
not nearly as competitive as Iam.
he recognizes thecompetitiveness and he sees it
as a weakness and he will puthis thumb on it like a bruise
and keep pushing.
So as soon as we lost, he's, helike threw his hands up in the
air.
There was a celebration dance,like Icky Woods getting cold
(05:38):
cuts in that commercial forGeico.
was, and it continued.
Like yesterday, I'm like, Hey,let's play some trivia.
And he was like, Why, loser?
You wanna go back?
no, this is it.
This is it.
I will never have anotherchance.
and he is also bringing up thelast time I lost in trivia,
which was when Olivia was two.
Sarah (06:00):
Yeah, you need to somehow rope him into a game of
Chris (06:05):
Harry Potter trivia.
Oh my
Sarah (06:08):
am 100 percent certain you are the only person that
will ever fucking win that gamelegitimately.
Chris (06:16):
I can't wait.
I know what I'm doing tonight.
yeah, Christmas Eve was lovely.
Yesterday I sat on the couch forliterally 18 hours.
I found a
Sarah (06:24):
was nice.
Chris (06:25):
for present opening and did not move.
Sarah (06:29):
Yeah,
Chris (06:29):
Not a, I got up to get plates of food and that was it.
I didn't even empty thedishwasher from Christmas Eve.
Sarah (06:36):
yeah, our house is a mess like normally by now I have the
presents organized back underthe tree before they have to be
sent to rooms.
Literally all of Owen's likepile of shit is just in the
middle of the living room.
Like we've been stepping overit.
and there's some shit on thedining room table.
There's some shit on the island.
(06:57):
there's just piles of Christmasshit everywhere.
But I can say that this year wasprobably one of the best.
We, everybody got really goodgifts.
Yeah.
Chris (07:07):
I, I was telling Olivia that on Christmas Eve we would
go to, Nanny and Pappy's andthen we'd go to Grandma Carla's
and then it would be like two inthe morning by the time we got
home and got her settled intobed while she was terrified
waiting for a giant elf to dropoff presents.
and then I would start rapping.
Sarah (07:26):
Yeah, that's you
Chris (07:29):
I wouldn't finish until 15 minutes before she woke up.
And then I would cook all daylike I was so filled with joy at
doing this stuff though that Iwas super happy about it.
I was exhausted.
And I think on Christmas Day, Iwould cook and feed, for your
parents, for Carla, we would getthrough dinner, I would clean
(07:49):
up, and then I would pass outuntil, I was like a bear, I
would pass out until New Year'swhen I had to put all the
decorations away.
I would just hibernate untilthen, eat cheese and play games
with Olivia until I had to putaway the decorations.
Sarah (08:04):
it makes sense.
It definitely makes sense.
I
Chris (08:08):
Yeah, and I miss it.
Sarah (08:09):
normally, I, this is the first year we brought gifts out
before Owen went to bed.
Chris (08:15):
Awww.
Sarah (08:16):
That was like, I just came out with a stocking shit
just to get the stockings ready.
Cause Noah's normally the onewho gets up in the middle of the
night and does all the shit.
And as I was getting thestockings ready, he started
carrying the shit out and I waslike, what are you doing?
He's still in the bathroom.
And Noah was like, I just, Idon't, why can't we just put him
out?
(08:36):
Now, Is he waiting for Santa toget here?
Are we putting cookies out?
I don't know, what do we, and Iwas like, fuck, all right, do
what you want to do.
Fine.
Chris (08:45):
still put the cookies out.
I made myself a plate of cookiesis what
Sarah (08:49):
Yeah, that's what happened.
Oh, Owen's other gift was the,the human dog bed.
Chris (08:55):
Oh, I loved it.
I loved it.
Sarah (08:57):
Yes.
And it is,
Chris (08:59):
his brother.
Sarah (09:00):
it's, he comes home from school and I have Macho's bed in
the office here.
And he will come home fromschool and come in to talk to me
and lay on, put his head onMacho's bed.
Cause Macho's normally in thereand he'll And sometimes he might
fall asleep in there, just hishead on it.
But, I saw this on probablyFacebook and Mary was asking me
(09:24):
for ideas on what to get him.
And I was like, get him a dogbed.
She was like, what?
I was like, it's a human dogbed.
here's what it is.
Here's how much it costs.
I'll order it for you.
So yeah, he, as soon as we weredone with, opening gifts, we got
that sucker out, got it set upfor him.
He fell asleep in there until wehad to leave for dinner.
And then last night we camehome, he carried it downstairs,
(09:45):
which was my intent is that hewould have it downstairs.
That's where he slept lastnight.
Chris (09:50):
In the dog bed.
Sarah (09:52):
Yeah.
I got up this morning and wentin his room to wake him up for
work and he wasn't there.
I was like, huh, what, wentdownstairs and, there he was in
his dog bed.
I might get one for myself,actually.
Chris (10:04):
Amazing.
Amazing.
Sarah (10:05):
it's the pluffle, I think is what it's called.
So check it out, folks.
It's wonderful.
Chris (10:10):
Ridiculous.
All right.
We should probably do a podcast.
Sarah (10:13):
Okay.
All right.
Let's start with the fan mail.
so I, we're going to try tochange some things up here in
the new year and, just focus onone fan mail for the week, but
I'm already fucking shit up.
Cause I'm going to mention two,because they're the only two we
got and they're from Ryan andShauna and their husband and
wife.
So I feel like we have tomention both of them because I
do believe that they've been,two of our top fan mailers it's
(10:36):
been them and Kim D pretty muchkeeping us afloat here.
Chris (10:40):
Yeah.
oh, just a quick point of factthat I might've forgotten.
Ryan and Shauna are married toeach other and, they have
provided, some, amusing storiesand also, did they try to leave
bags of cookies around yourhouse?
Is that the story I rememberfrom prior episodes?
Sarah (10:56):
Yeah.
They didn't try.
They did.
Yeah.
It was them and our otherfriends, another couple, and we
traded.
I don't ever remember leavingthe cookies at the other
couple's house though.
So I think it really, they maybejust knew about it or they
started it.
And then we were really into it.
And I don't know, but like oneof the, one of the most
(11:19):
satisfying things was, Shawnacame over with her son and we
went somewhere and.
They had left, she left her carat our house and Noah sent me a
text because he had the keys.
She gave him the keys and he wasso excited about putting the,
cookies in her middle console.
Chris (11:36):
I love it.
I love it.
Ryan and Chana have madeprevious appearances in the
podcast, so welcome back.
Welcome back.
Sarah (11:43):
What I really like about their two emails is they share
Not just Hey, you guys are doingawesome, but Hey, you were
talking about this, let me tellyou about what I do and let me
suggest some of this stuff.
Ryan is a lover of the vitamins.
We were talking about vitamin Dthe other day and he is on D
three.
I am on D two.
I don't.
Owen used to go to the workoutplace D1.
(12:04):
So I don't like, I don't,
Chris (12:05):
I don't know.
Sarah (12:07):
and we're not playing college sports, so it has
nothing to do with that.
So I'm whatever, I'll have to,I'll have to figure that out.
And Ryan also mentioned, thateveryone needs the D and that he
gets his vitamin D from chickenand.
Brian loves the chicken
Chris (12:28):
I wish everyone could see my face.
Sarah (12:30):
and his mom used to call it the monkey
Chris (12:33):
Oh god.
Sarah (12:34):
and he loves monkeys and then Shauna would call their son
monkey.
Chris (12:39):
Oh.
Oh.
See, parents, just take a note.
Just call it a penis.
Sarah (12:45):
Just call it peanut, vagina, Yeah.
Chris (12:48):
It's not a dirty word.
Sarah (12:51):
or Vajayjay.
that's what I would say to Livbecause I still wasn't okay with
saying vagina to her because shewas a baby, but, whatever.
Chris (12:58):
so much better than vagina.
You're right.
Clearly.
Carry on.
Sarah (13:05):
someone said penis the other day and I was like, why
did they say, oh, the groomer ordog groomer.
And I was like, oh, I wish youwould have said weiner.
Makes so much more sense to me.
Chris (13:16):
You are like penis.
Sarah (13:20):
I was like, what?
Oh, it's weiner.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I'm, 46 years old.
anyway, so the thing that Ryantaught me is the form of
vitamin.
So do, are you familiar with themethylated form of vitamins?
Neither was
Chris (13:37):
vitamins or nutrition, obviously.
Sarah (13:40):
I still don't know a lot about the methylated form.
I have written down here thedefinition of, but I'm not going
to read it because.
yeah, I read it earlier tomyself and was like, that's
still.
Doesn't I, so
Chris (13:58):
Adenosylmethionine.
Sarah (14:02):
it's called Sammy.
and it's actually the mastermethylator, which is the only
thing I took of that because allI could think of was master
baiter.
That's the only and I was like,fuck things that sound bad.
Dirty, but art
Chris (14:18):
aren't.
Sarah (14:19):
so I've, I'll have to come back to that.
I trust, I trust, Ryan andthere's some studies that have
been done.
and it's all about a genemutations and how they prevent
our body from processing certainvitamins and minerals and this
form of vitamin, it's the mastermethylator and that apparently
helps us.
Anyway, so that was from Ryan.
(14:41):
He also mentioned, the consciousmind, which we've talked about
and
Chris (14:44):
I love it.
The concept of the consciousmind is amazing.
Sarah (14:48):
we'll continue to discuss the conscious mind of course,
and live, live probiotics.
I don't, do I take deadprobiotics?
Chris (14:57):
what was the culture that was in the yogurt?
Sarah (15:00):
Oh, yes.
Spon Bifidus Regularis.
I was going to say SponusBifidus, but that's like Bifidus
Regularis.
It was the my mom used to eatthe Activia because her belly
would hurt her.
Mom, we love you.
And I was reading, I justhappened to read the label of
the Activia.
I normally don't do that, but inthis case I did and found out
(15:22):
that it contains a bifidusregularis.
Somebody made that fucking
Chris (15:28):
Some marketing guy was like, what do we call it?
It's gotta have a scientificname.
What family name can we, whatgenus does this biotic that we
made up?
what species?
Oh, it's a bifidus
Sarah (15:42):
It's a bifidus.
It's a bifidus that makes youregular.
So we'll just throw us on theend of it.
Chris (15:50):
It's like naming a goddamn dinosaur.
Anyway, live
Sarah (15:55):
All right.
So
Chris (15:57):
probiotics.
Good for your belly.
Sarah (15:59):
Yeah, back to fan mail.
We're gonna switch over toShauna now.
Shauna listens to a lot ofpodcasts, which I appreciate and
love and She told us to checkout dr.
Daniel Amen.
Amen.
I think it,
Chris (16:13):
Yeah, whatever.
Sarah (16:15):
he speaks about brain health and the things that
interfere with it and how itaffects mental health.
And he talks about ants, whichthis is really what I want to
dig into because I definitely amovertaken by this.
ants is a huge problem that Ihave and it's automatic negative
thoughts.
I really want, we always jokeabout my brain voice, but I
(16:38):
really wish that I could recordmy brain voice and have
everybody else listen to itevery once in a while.
Cause you would be like, wow,are you fucked up?
Like the shit I make up in myhead is Unreal.
And now that I'm trying to bemore,
Chris (16:53):
Mindful?
Sarah (16:54):
yes.
And realize, wow, it's prettyfucking ridiculous.
I also appreciate that Shaunasaid, Sarah will not like him
because he is very much againstthe weed and the booze.
I can't say that's going to makeme not like him.
Chris (17:11):
It's just going to make you reject part of his theory.
Sarah (17:14):
I, it's not even that I reject it.
It's like smoking cigarettes.
I know it's bad.
Like I know the weed and thebooze are not helping my mental
health.
but I continue to do them.
I have committed to dry Januaryagain.
I will be doing dry January andI even have shit planned like
going out plans for January, butI will be doing them sober.
Chris (17:39):
want to do Dry January.
Sarah (17:41):
Last time I did dry January, number one, I lost a
shitload of weight.
Number two, I ended up doing dryJanuary, February, and half a
March until St.
Patrick's day.
So maybe we'll do that again.
I am, I'm committing to dryJanuary.
Chris (17:56):
I'm going to do Dry January.
I think it,
Sarah (17:59):
Last time I did it, I also, I just hid, I just didn't
go
Chris (18:03):
Oh, don't do that.
Sarah (18:05):
This time I'm going to make an effort to actually still
do things, and just do them dry.
And I also wrote down here thatI need to look up Tom Holland's
non alcoholic beer and where Ican get it.
Chris (18:18):
Wait, who's Tom Holland?
Is he Spider
Sarah (18:19):
Spider Man.
Yeah, he was an alcoholic.
I haven't really looked up a lotof, he's five, I
Chris (18:25):
He's barely, he's a child.
Sarah (18:28):
yeah.
So that's his, I just saw him,it was a prerecorded episode,
but it was on live and Iactually watched it months back
when it was actually new.
yeah, but that was one of histhings.
He was like, I just wanted, Iwanted to be able to partake in
that and, but there was nothingreally that was good out there
that tasted like beer.
(18:48):
But, it didn't make me an idiotor an asshole, yadda.
so I want to check that out andstart looking into ways that,
Maybe I'll learn how to besocial without being drunk.
Chris (18:57):
Love it.
We'll give it a go.
Sarah (19:00):
so yeah, so there's that.
So thanks Ryan and Shauna.
Appreciate it.
My Gaster story.
Do you want to, I have to pullmy screen down here to be able
to look at my Gaster story.
Okay.
Chris (19:12):
It's been so long since I've used my mouse, it won't
even click.
There we go.
Oh! ha! I've just looked at thetab.
Sarah (19:18):
Yeah, Out of water.
Chris (19:20):
Classic.
Classic Gaster Girl story.
Sarah (19:24):
The Gaster Girls story of the week is about our New Year's
Eve 2000.
Y2K.
Everybody,
Chris (19:30):
Y2K.
Sarah (19:31):
Everywhere, the world was just gonna It was abdink.
Chris (19:35):
Can I set the stage?
Sarah (19:37):
it.
Absolutely, go for it.
Yes.
Chris (19:42):
I, I was married, to my first husband, Mike, and we were
living in Arizona in a lovelytwo bedroom apartment.
and you were living in the otherbedroom, right?
You were living there.
So you didn't just come out tovisit.
Sometimes I get a little fuzzyon when you were there and when
(20:02):
you weren't.
and Mike had made friends, Ithink, I don't know how, I can't
remember.
but he had work, work friendswith, with this cluster of
people who had been friends fora considerable amount of time.
Sarah (20:17):
I'm going to interrupt because my memory, it wasn't a
cluster of people.
He made friends with one
Chris (20:23):
Oh no.
He made friends with one personin the cluster.
Sarah (20:26):
their, in my understanding, their friendship
was they invited you guys to aHalloween party every year.
That
Chris (20:34):
don't even think I had never met him.
Sarah (20:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
that might be the case.
I feel like we did go to theHalloween party prior to
Chris (20:43):
Was it, was Steve, so Hobbit Steve?
Was this the Halloween party?
I can't remember.
No.
Oh, so confused.
Halloween, Hobbit Steve was NewYear's Eve party, right?
Sarah (20:53):
yeah, I don't know.
I think Hobbit Steve was arandom Wednesday night at
Anderson's.
I don't know.
Chris (20:58):
Ew, I just threw up in my mouth.
Sarah (21:01):
anyway, go ahead.
Chris (21:02):
So Mike makes friends with this one guy.
whose name I can't remember now.
but, they were a married coupleand, they had a couple of other
married friends, couples, andthey had been friends for since
college and we're like maybe 10years, like they had a whole
history, this group of people.
And, and they had madearrangements.
to stay Airbnb like before thatwas a thing.
(21:24):
they were staying, somebody inthe group had a relative, like
an aunt,
Sarah (21:28):
But that relative was still in the house, but go
ahead.
I,
Chris (21:33):
It had a, it was the, now, I might be misremembering.
But I feel like this was like aluxury mansion that they
couldn't afford and had falleninto some disrepair.
there were bedrooms aplenty andthere was like an indoor pool
with a room to go with it.
Sarah (21:53):
that's vaguely what I remember as well, but I'm not
really sure.
I don't know if we made that up,but anyway, go ahead.
Chris (21:58):
that's the memory I have.
And, we, the group of people wasmade up of people from all ages
and all walks of life.
Again, I knew this guy maybefrom meeting him at a party
once, like I'd probablyinteracted, I'd add maybe five
minutes of conversation and, Idon't know this for sure.
But what I suspect happened ishe was talking about it with
(22:21):
Mike and Mike said, Oh, thatsounds like a lot of fun.
And he was like, yeah, youshould come.
And Mike said, we would love to.
Sarah (22:29):
Yeah.
Chris (22:29):
And this guy went, oh my, so now we're going, me, you, and
Mike.
And I had been sick.
I had a horrible fever, and Ithink I had the flu.
leading up to, between Christmasand New Year's.
So I was laying on the couchwatching, watching old 70's
reruns on TV.
Until the day we packed andleft.
Sarah (22:52):
Yeah.
Chris (22:53):
There you go, that's the background.
I've set the stage.
Sarah (22:56):
you've set the stage.
this couple had a van.
Chris (22:59):
Oh, they did, yeah.
I don't think it was their van.
Sarah (23:03):
maybe they borrowed it, but we drove with them
Chris (23:09):
All of us.
Yeah, we got to know each otherin the van.
Sarah (23:11):
in the van.
and then we met these otherpeople at this house that we, I
could not figure out who thefuck owned the house and what
she was doing.
She, for some reason in my headwas Mrs.
Roper.
Chris (23:25):
Yes, because her hair was super curly and blonde.
Sarah (23:28):
yeah, like it was, I don't see, there was, okay, so
we get there, we go inside, it'sweird, there's like sleeping
bags, the sleeping arrangement'sreally weird, and it's not very
comfortable, let me tell you,it's really not.
I don't know exactly how ithappened, but you and I ended up
sleeping in the van, in thedriveway.
Chris (23:50):
I think Mike did too.
I think that was the deal.
they were like, happy to haveyou.
There's no place to sleepinside.
So yeah, definitely come on ourpre planned vacation that we,
you just invited yourself tolast week.
there's nowhere to sleep.
So you guys are going to be inthe van.
And Mike was like, yeah, soundsgreat.
And.
Sarah (24:09):
And.
Vegas or not, it was chilly.
It was, for us, cause we livedin Arizona, so it was cold and
we were sleeping
Chris (24:17):
In a
Sarah (24:18):
van.
in a van and as we weresleeping, trying to get to sleep
the first night, you realize youhave a cold sore.
Chris (24:26):
I do, yeah.
Sarah (24:26):
The first cold sore ever after me living 21 years
attempting to give her a coldsore.
She finally developed one on herown and was extremely upset
about it.
We named it Steve.
It was quite
Chris (24:41):
know what to do.
Sarah (24:43):
Yeah.
And I did nothing but fuckinglaugh
Chris (24:47):
It was awful.
I'm trying to meet new people.
I'm like, hey, how's it going?
don't look at it.
And, to go along with what wewere learning, what we're
learning today.
I was so afraid of what peoplewere thinking about this cold
sore.
Sarah (24:59):
And it wasn't even, for those of you, for my fellow
herpes sufferers, it wasn't eventhat bad of a cold sore.
It was like one that was in thecorner that you could barely
even see unless you
Chris (25:09):
It was right here.
Sarah (25:11):
no, it was here.
Chris (25:12):
No, it was here.
Sarah (25:14):
regardless, it wasn't up in your fucking
Chris (25:16):
no.
It was tiny.
It was
Sarah (25:18):
it was a baby.
Baby Steve is what it was.
It was baby Steve.
That's what it was.
Anyway.
So this is Las Vegas, 2000.
We're going into 2000.
We had some crazy fuckingoutfits on.
We had to get dressed up.
I think there were silk blousesinvolved, some skirts, some
chunky heels that of course weregoing to be wonderful as we're
(25:42):
walking up and down the stripfor the next 12 hours.
The strip shut down, I'm goingto tighten it up here.
Just make it pretty quick.
the strip there was there werethe army guys or police officers
on horses all over the place.
and.
It was insane at 1130.
They shut the doors to all thecasinos.
if you were outside.
(26:02):
Like they were so worried aboutshit, all the machines going
fucking crazy at midnight.
So if you were inside.
If you were outside.
That's the way it was.
So we decided to hang out on thestrip.
Asses to fucking elbows.
Like today, Sarah would lose herfucking mind.
I was losing it then, I think,
Chris (26:20):
Pretty
Sarah (26:20):
but the thing I very specifically remember is some
guy walking towards us.
He had a backpack on and he wasscreaming and yelling.
And I think they were all greatthings.
He was happy new year, superexcited before midnight.
And he was taking sips of beerand spinning it up in the air.
(26:40):
That seemed.
To be okay.
And I was like, wow, look atthis guy.
He's going to get fuckingkilled.
And do you remember this
Chris (26:47):
enough.
Sarah (26:48):
The guy, I think it was a guy like in front of us or a
couple of people in front of usjust sucker punched him right in
the face and knocked him thefuck out.
Chris (26:58):
It was a whole evening of horrific things happening.
Sarah (27:02):
Oh, no, it was behind us.
Cause one of the guys we werewith tried to grab his backpack
and help him out.
Hey dude.
And he was like, fuck you.
And obligerate.
And he was like, all right, goahead.
And then the next group ofpeople.
Somebody just flattened him.
It was,
Chris (27:20):
again, you're If you've ever been to Vegas, the Strip,
that street is like a six lanehighway.
With a divider in the middle.
It is huge, and there is a noplace to walk.
there's no cars.
They've shut it down.
So we're just asses to elbows,nightclub like atmosphere for
(27:43):
however many blocks the stripis.
And they locked you out of thecasino, and you had to have a
key to get in, and I had to pee.
Sarah (27:52):
yeah, there was,
Chris (27:53):
Everybody had to pee.
Sarah (27:54):
we were stepping in a lot of pee.
There were people who were justhanging out with pee in their
pants.
I guarantee It And then gettingoff the strip.
you couldn't fucking get off thestrip and we weren't staying on
the strip.
Remember we were staying at,Mrs.
Roper's van or driveway.
so we had to find a way to getthere and we somehow were by
(28:18):
ourselves.
Like you and I got disconnectedfrom everyone.
Chris (28:22):
It was just the two of us.
Sarah (28:23):
Yeah.
I don't know where Mike was.
It was definitely just the twoof us.
Chris (28:28):
And we were with like the old lady and like a young person
that I might be making up theyoung person, but definitely
somebody like we were 24.
I was 24, maybe.
Sarah (28:39):
21.
Chris (28:40):
oh, I had to be older than 24.
we were young
Sarah (28:43):
Yeah.
Chris (28:45):
We were young and somebody younger than us was
with us.
I remember right.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Sarah (28:52):
don't remember that.
Chris (28:53):
Anyway, there was an older lady.
How
Sarah (28:55):
It was fucked up.
We had to find a way off, offthe strip.
You couldn't, taxis and shit.
Yeah,
Chris (29:02):
did we get there?
Did we take a bus?
Sarah (29:06):
I vaguely remember being on some sort of train or bus or
something.
Ubers didn't exist.
We didn't take a taxi there.
So
Chris (29:14):
I think we took a bus.
Which is how we ended up at thebus station trying to get a bus
back.
Sarah (29:20):
Yeah.
And that was in fuckingpossible.
You couldn't do it.
Eventually we got back to Mrs.
Roper's house.
I, it might've been me, but Ithink it was you who basically
ran in front of a taxi.
Like we were off the strip.
Like we were like, fuck it onthe strip.
We're not getting dick.
So we need to fucking get offthe strip.
(29:40):
So we like, went right beyondthe strip and we were trying to
flag taxis down.
Like we were in New York city.
Chris (29:47):
right.
Sarah (29:48):
Which is impossible, they were giving us the bird and I'm
fairly certain, this is back inthe day when you had cash, we
just emptied our purses of cashand we're like, just get us,
please.
But you almost died.
Yeah, you almost died
Chris (30:02):
I think the taxi was going to run me over.
Like it had no, and then I thinkI held up like a handful of
cash.
And we shared a cab withsomebody else who couldn't find
it, who couldn't find a taxi.
Horrific.
Sarah (30:15):
point, it was a blur because I think it was like
three o'clock in the morning andwe had literally been trying to
get off the strip sincemidnight.
Chris (30:22):
Bright.
Sarah (30:22):
said, Happy New Year.
See ya.
Chris (30:24):
Peace out.
Sarah (30:26):
Anyway,
Chris (30:27):
we were the last ones to make it back too.
Sarah (30:30):
yeah.
Yeah.
So we should have just, I thinkwe thought we were smarter and
we were going to get somewherequicker.
So we took off from the group,but yeah.
And then we spent another nightin the van, and then we drove
home and I don't think we eversaw those people again.
Chris (30:45):
I don't think we did.
Sarah (30:47):
The next day we did go back to the strip because I
remember this vividly because itwas one of my best, one of the
best experiences.
I had zero money because I was21 and I just given any bit of
money that I had to the
Chris (30:58):
To the taxi.
Sarah (31:00):
and we go into a casino and I'm like, fuck, I don't have
any money to fucking drink.
I don't know.
All right.
So I find this video blackjackmachine and I sit down there and
I put my last 5 in it.
I think it was something like, Idon't know, two, three, four, I
don't know.
Hours later, I walked away fromthat machine fucking hammered
(31:21):
with 7.
Chris (31:24):
You're like Vegas is the best place ever.
Sarah (31:27):
amazing.
Do you know the next time I wasable to do that?
Chris (31:30):
Never.
Sarah (31:32):
never.
It just was that one lucky day Imade two bucks and got wasted.
And I told this story before andsomebody was like, but you only
made two bucks.
I was like, I was hammered.
De runk, drunk.
I stood up and fell over alittle bit drunk.
So no, I made way more than 2that day.
Chris (31:51):
Ugh.
what would make it?
Like.
what would make us run to chaoslike that?
what in a 20 year old's mindsetis I'm sure that'll be fine.
why would we be worried abouthow we're getting back to the
place where we don't have aplace to sleep?
what?
Sarah (32:06):
I don't think that was, you weren't, we weren't thinking
about any of that.
We were just, we wanted
Chris (32:10):
Hey, we're going to Vegas with this troupe of people.
We don't know
Sarah (32:13):
yeah, I'm fairly certain you and I were uncomfortable for
90 percent of
Chris (32:18):
the whole time.
Sarah (32:19):
unless we were really drunk.
And even then we were still abit
Chris (32:22):
a little bit uncomfortable, right?
I'm like, Hey, we have
Sarah (32:25):
but we didn't realize that Mike invited us until we
were already on our way.
Like we, we were under theimpression that we had been
invited.
There was a place for us tosleep.
There was Like
Chris (32:36):
whole plan.
Sarah (32:37):
yeah, we were under the impression that we were included
in the planning from the start.
Chris (32:42):
yeah.
Sarah (32:42):
We didn't realize until we got there that,
Chris (32:46):
Hey! I think we're the third, fourth, and fifth wheel
here.
Sarah (32:50):
yeah.
So it was rough.
Anyway, that's our new yearstory.
New year's 2000.
One of the,
Chris (32:55):
So fun.
Oh my god.
Sarah (32:59):
It was a good
Chris (32:59):
Terrifying.
It is one of those ones whereyou look back on it, and you're
like, how did I end up at a busshelter watching people do
heroin while trying to find acab?
Sarah (33:11):
yeah.
It was rough.
It was fucking rough.
It
Chris (33:13):
How do we not die?
How do we not, how do we notdie?
Also, think about how mucheasier these kids have it.
they could just call theirfriends and be like, Hey, did
you find a way home?
Can you stop by this busshelter?
You'll know it by all thecrackheads.
can you pick up, pick me up?
Sarah (33:28):
Yeah.
There was no texting asking,Hey, where are you guys?
Where were you able to find aride?
Where were you?
There was nothing like that.
Even if we could find a payphone, where the fuck are we
calling anybody?
We didn't know Mrs.
Roper's fucking number.
Chris (33:39):
We barely knew Mrs.
Roper's address.
I think I had it written on my
Sarah (33:43):
the other thing.
No, like how did we even getback?
that's insane.
Insane.
Chris (33:48):
my hand.
Cause I didn't have a purse.
I don't know where I broughtcash from.
did I have it in my bra?
Cause I wasn't going to carry apurse and wear those heels at
the same
Sarah (33:58):
I had to have a purse because I was smoking cigarettes
at the time.
So I always had to have acigarette carrying receptacle.
Chris (34:05):
And my feet were like hamburger meat.
Sarah (34:07):
Yeah.
Chris (34:08):
So many blisters.
New shoes, of course.
Cause why not?
Woo.
All right.
Should we get into some, shouldwe get into, some mental
wellness shit?
Sarah (34:19):
Yeah.
Chris (34:20):
Alright, finally at this point of reading the book, I
have remembered the name of thebook.
And that the author isn't, RickyGervais.
it's, the first rule of masteryby Michael Gervais.
He doesn't pronounce the S.
I don't know if you guysremember, but, a few weeks ago,
we talked about our boy, beefoven and how he was quiet about
(34:40):
his deafness because he wasafraid that he would lose his
place in society.
And that was our introduction toFOPO, the fear of other people's
opinions.
This week, we're going to jumpinto part one, of the book.
part one is chapters one throughsix, and we're going to cover
chapters one through four thisweek.
(35:00):
There's a lot of material hereupfront that we're going to need
as like the basis for the booklater.
so in, in the early parts herein chapter one, MG, Michael
introduces the concept of FOPO,and we've talked about this one
pretty extensively on the showalready, and also in our lives.
It's in our dad's, near famoustop five rules for life.
(35:22):
so quick shout out to Jumbo, forencouraging us all to pee before
we leave.
this is a different rule thanthat one though.
So our dad taught us fairlyearly on in life that, no one
gives a shit about you.
And although that sounds crueland unkind and like it might,
provoke thoughts of sadness,isolation, and loneliness, that
couldn't be further from thetruth.
(35:44):
so FOPO, Fear of Other People'sOpinions, kept us safe in
ancestral times and also inmiddle school.
So if, if anyone out there was amiddle school girl, FOPO is that
feeling of, stressing out overwhether or not to wear three
pairs.
of layered scrunchie socks, orif two would be enough to keep
(36:05):
you in the cool group.
so, these are, FOPO is, isimportant because it's able to,
keep us a part of the herd, andour instincts make it so that we
want to be part of the herd,because that's how we survived,
years and years ago.
Kind of the important thing isas we grow up and as we evolved,
it's less important to be partof the herd, and more important
(36:28):
to evaluate where those thoughtsare coming from.
So Michael Gervais mentions thatFOPO is our cue to look at what
we're thinking about.
and whether or not we're lettingthat fear of other people's
opinion, keep us from doingsomething that is important or
something that lines up with ourvalues.
And the trick is that Fopo isthe future looking piece of it.
(36:54):
So it's not understanding thatOh my god, I just said something
that was really out of place inthis context and being able to
learn from that Fopo is the fearof saying something out of place
and then not doing somethingthat's consistent with who you
are as a person so fopo is alying bitch, that needs kicked
in the dick is what I wrote Theability to read the room is
(37:16):
important, but it's also equallyimportant to understand that
allowing fear, to control ourlives is really unhealthy.
So there is a big difference of,valuing other people's opinions
and being aware of the contextin which you're speaking and
letting external forces, drivewhat you do in your day to day
life.
bringing it back to Jumbo'sadvice is, It's really thinking,
(37:39):
no one else is really thinkingabout us as much as we think
they are.
no one gives a shit about you.
It isn't about other people'slack of empathy, caring, or
understanding.
It's about putting otherpeople's opinions in
perspective.
they might look at your coldsore and, pity you for a second.
Ooh, that's too bad.
Ugh, it's so gross.
but their thoughts quickly moveon to what they're going to have
(38:01):
for dinner.
And why in the world would wethink it is a good idea to waste
our time and energy worryingabout what other people might
think when it's a scientificfact that they don't, that
they're not really thinkingabout you at all.
so do you remember the contextin which Jumbo first gave you
the advice?
Sarah (38:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was actually 23.
I feel like he probably tried togive me some sort of this, or
both of us, this advice earlierthan that, but the instance
where it literally came out ofhis mouth as no one gives a shit
about you, what, and I rememberalmost the date.
It was the week before September11th, 2001.
Chris (38:44):
Oh, wow.
Sarah (38:45):
the date.
yeah, I was, I, it was weddingtime.
We were going to a familywedding and my boyfriend at the
time, he was my ex boyfriend atthis time cause he had dumped
me,
Chris (38:56):
Dick,
Sarah (38:56):
his, I mean his loss, whatever.
but yeah, so I had been dumpedand it was wedding time and I
wasn't gonna have a date.
And I was very upset about thisand I was crying about it.
And I was like, I can't keepgoing to these weddings by
myself.
Like everybody in the family isgoing to think I'm not good
enough to get married.
Like that.
I never have a boyfriend.
(39:17):
everybody's going to see mesingle and alone again.
And they're going to think blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
And he was like, stop.
Just stop.
And at this point it wasirritated, daddy.
It wasn't like I'm gonna reallytry to help you out and be, talk
to you.
It was shut the fuck up.
Not what he said, but just stop.
just stop.
(39:38):
Listen to yourself.
Listen to yourself.
Do you think anybody gives ashit about you?
Nobody gives a shit about you.
And I was like, Oh my God,excuse me.
Chris (39:51):
That's
Sarah (39:51):
And he said, in this context, nobody gives a shit
about you.
Do you think we're going to awedding and people are going to
look at you and say, Oh my God,Sarah doesn't have a date.
They're not there for you.
They're there for this wedding.
And they're more worried aboutthe clothes they're putting on
their back or the date theydon't have.
So they're not thinking aboutyou.
It's not about you.
Chris (40:12):
It's
Sarah (40:12):
And, that was extremely powerful, and still plays a huge
part in my life, probably on adaily basis.
Because I get, I'm like, Oh God,what about, what are they going
to think?
And I'm like, they might look atme and be like, Hey, cold sore.
Nice.
Sorry about your luck.
And then again, and then they'removing on worried about the zit
that they have on their cheekwhere they don't even see the
(40:35):
cold sore.
that's, they're doing the samething we're doing and worrying
about themselves.
Chris (40:41):
like further along in this book, there's an entire set
of chapters about science willtell you, this isn't just
jumbo's theory of other people'sthinking.
there have been studies andstudies.
There's a really famous one withBarry Manilow.
You know who I honestly, I wouldgo see him in concert.
So FOPO is this, anticipation ofthe rejection.
(41:03):
So the fear is that if I do thisor say this, somebody is going
to react negatively and yourbody goes through a fear
response, FOPO is actual fearAnd once you're in it, it's hard
to get out of it.
So we are constantly goingthrough like a cycle The
mechanics of FOPO is you havethe anticipation part where, the
(41:26):
best example I think thateveryone can relate to is being
in a meeting and you're like, Ithink I have something to say,
and you're like adjusting yourposition and you're like, I have
something to say and then assoon as you think you have
something to say, you startanticipating the reaction of the
other people in the meeting andI'm like, Oh, I can't say it
because they're going to thinkI'm an idiot.
(41:46):
Oh, I can't say it because it'sprobably irrelevant.
I can't say it.
And then you start like creatingall of these scenarios for
yourself.
So you spend a lot of time inthis.
awareness and fear of whatpeople are going to think when
you say something and it mightbe a situation where you do have
(42:07):
something important tocontribute and now you're
instead of being engaged in thismeeting where you might a learn
something, You might be able toengage in the conversation in a
way that isn't, Hey, I have thisbest idea.
Look at me.
you might be able to work youridea in a way that's a little
more natural.
you shut that part of your braindown because you can't, you
(42:29):
literally can't pay attention totwo things at one time.
So instead of paying attentionto the conversation and context
of the meeting, you are nowfocused on 18 scenarios that
might happen when you mightspeak up.
So you're just in thisanticipation thing for forever
and ever.
And then when you finally see anopportunity to jump in and yell
(42:49):
out your idea.
you've moved into like thechecking phase where you're
constantly scanning, if you'reon a zoom call, you're looking
at the people in the zoom call,if you're just on the phone,
you're listening to reactionsinterpreting everything that's
happening.
Everything that you're seeing,like every pause, you're
interpreting that as arejection.
your fear response is making itso that you're seeing things
(43:12):
that may or may not be there.
and you're thinking about thenext phase, which is the
response phase.
when you're in that checkingphase, you're like, okay, does
that make sense?
and then you move into theresponding phase, which is where
you either pull back yourstatement.
Michael Gervais goes into, Ithink, five different responses
when you're going through FOBO.
(43:32):
what are they?
contort, conform, confrontcritique, This is the most
damaging phase because you'retaking who you are, your
identity, and you're making itinto whatever, eases the
conversation from that point.
Like you're so afraid of whatsomebody might be thinking or
might be doing, that you change,what you're doing.
(43:52):
you're trying to preempt aresponse, and you can see how
dangerous this can be when wethink about it in the context of
bad behavior.
So if you're in a group that'sengaging in some bad behavior,
again, going back to that13-year-old middle school girl
example, and you're like, Idon't necessarily agree with
what's happening and I probablyshould say something that lines
up with my values of being adecent human being and you just
(44:14):
don't, because if I do that,then, Kim's not going to want to
be my friend.
And it's really important for meto be popular because it's the
only thing I care about rightnow.
so it, it might be harmless as a13 year old girl, until you
start thinking about howfrequently you see that behavior
in true crime.
Sarah (44:33):
Right.
Chris (44:34):
I know that you can probably name at least three
examples where people havegotten murdered.
Because, other people are afraidto say anything.
And I know you've been in asituation where you've thought
about saying something in ameeting and you've not said it
and then you just ruminate on itfor the next five days.
Oh, I should have said it.
Why didn't I say it?
I should have said it.
Sarah (44:55):
or worse when I don't say it and then somebody else does
and everybody's wow, what agreat idea.
Like
Chris (45:02):
Fuck.
Each of those phases involves acost, you can't pay attention to
two things.
So you're missing the point ofthe meeting.
You're missing an opportunity toengage with someone else.
You're missing an opportunity toshow who you are as a person.
There's a, there's an energyinvolved with being in this kind
of loop that takes away fromyour ability to perform at a
(45:24):
higher level.
chapter two is these are thethings that are happening and
they happen all the time withoutyou thinking about it.
So what we're going to try to doin other chapters is recognize
when this is happening and comeup with some strategies for how
to break that cycle, how to getout of that loop and, ways that
we can protect ourselves fromgetting in that loop in the
(45:46):
first place there's a few fasttracks to get yourself in this
loop one of them is notunderstanding who you are as a
person.
So this is why 13 year old girlsfall into this all the time
because you just don't know whoI am as a person and then the
performance based identities.
So we'll talk a ton aboutperformance based identities
(46:08):
here before we wrap up, but,that's one of the sort of short
tracks to ending up in, in FOPO.
the chapter three is fearfactors, and it's really all
about being afraid, and whatsets us up to engage in this
cycle.
So we learned to be afraid, likePavlov's dog, you've been
afraid, right?
Everyone's been afraid.
(46:29):
You,
Sarah (46:29):
been afraid?
Chris (46:31):
I'm afraid right now.
Um, there's just a higher level
Sarah (46:35):
my natural state.
Chris (46:37):
There's just a higher level of stress in the body.
not only when you're in this,loop, mechanics of FOPO, or
you're taking yourself away fromengaging in, meaningful things
that are gonna happen, you'realso raising your stress levels
up high, and you're gonna findit hard to perform if you're, if
you feel like you're dying, allthe time.
go back to that instinct of, Iwant to be part of the group.
(46:59):
I don't want to be the personwho is, saying inappropriate
things at the company dinner.
I don't want to be the personwho's saying, old timey racist
stuff you want to be able tounderstand those kinds of clues.
that's an adaptation, that'sgood.
That you can engage in, and readthe room.
the problem is when it starts toencourage maladaptive behaviors,
(47:23):
and I wrote maladaptive incapital letters because I just
like it,
Sarah (47:27):
It is a good word.
It is a good word.
Chris (47:29):
like maladaptive behaviors are when you start to
get into that FOPO cycle whereyou're so afraid of what's going
to happen or what might happenor what crazy scenario you've
built up in your head that youcan't move forward.
so an important distinction hereis that, FOPO is a nonclinical
disorder.
this is just shit that happens.
you're not, to the level ofhaving, a social anxiety
(47:52):
disorder, which is a clinicaldiagnosis and might require some
professional help.
And he gives an example in achapter about a baseball player
who's really scared, and how hewent to see a therapist and,
Michael Gervais is apsychologist.
So he worked with him in a waythat was able to draw him out of
his fear.
Just as a note, FOPO issomething that we can work on,
(48:13):
on our own.
when you start to, develop thosemaladaptive behaviors, they need
to be addressed.
And sometimes you need toaddress them with a therapist.
So I will say again, Youprobably don't need a therapist
to deal with your FOBO, buthaving a therapist never hurts.
And they have some really goodideas about how to distinguish,
a little bit of fear of otherpeople's opinions and a clinical
(48:37):
diagnosis that could benefitfrom professional help.
So Um, I'm going to ask you aquestion.
should we, uh, keep going Andtalk about identity
Sarah (48:50):
I think identity is one that we should keep for next
time.
Chris (48:53):
Yeah, I do too.
I do too.
So what do you think about,FOPO?
what do you think about themechanics of it?
did you have any thoughts as Iwalked through all of that?
Sarah (49:03):
nothing different than what you already talked about.
I find it amazing, how faux pasis most likely a part of all of
our lives in the most, incognitoway, And we don't even realize
it.
and being able to finally,realize that this is going on
(49:25):
and this is something that we'recausing internally and that we
have control over this and wecan change this and also
discussing how it negativelyaffects us in our ability to
perform to the best of ourability.
I think that's something that wealso don't realize.
Like we might think Oh yeah,FOPO, like I probably shouldn't
do that, but we're not fullythinking of the.
(49:48):
negative effects that it canhave, and the extent of those
and how we can change our livesfor the better.
If we learn how to have a bettergrasp on the FOPO.
Chris (49:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
one of the things that I foundsurprising was that, Oh, we toss
out FOMO and FOPO and Oh,they're so cute.
They're so cute.
But when you really put somethought behind it, you really
are taking away from yourability to engage because the
fear is real.
Sarah (50:17):
Yeah.
Chris (50:18):
Your body's response, your body has no idea whether
it's being attacked by a tigeror you're worried about speaking
up in a meeting.
Like the reaction is the same.
Cortisol levels go up, stressgoes up, and you're really
taking a toll on yourself thatyou don't, that you don't have
to.
Sarah (50:35):
It's that science shit again.
That's awesome.
Chris (50:38):
it is pretty cool.
worrying about what people mightthink is hard.
Like worrying about what peopleactually think.
Sarah (50:46):
Yeah.
It's exhausting.
It's exhausting
Chris (50:49):
Looking at looking ahead and understanding the ways that,
that you can prevent that fromhappening is understanding that
it's happening in the firstplace and understanding how
detrimental it is to, torelationships that you're trying
to establish.
And.
it's gonna pop up in places thatyou probably don't even
recognize right now.
And being able to tease outwhat's good and what's bad about
(51:11):
being afraid of what otherpeople think about you is really
important.
It's an interesting thing forme.
Just like everything else we'regoing to try to do on this
podcast.
It's hard,
Sarah (51:20):
Yeah.
It's not easy, but, that's whywe're doing this so we can do it
together and help each other andhelp you guys.
Chris (51:29):
right?
Exactly.
next time we're going to talkabout identity and I know early
on in the podcast, we talk aboutperformance based identity and a
purpose driven identity and howthose two can trust and how one
is potentially better than theother one.
But there's also, a step by stepguide here to help us figure it
out.
You do love a step by stepguide.
(51:50):
All right, so we'll
Sarah (51:51):
Then let's wrap it up.
Chris (51:53):
Alright, happy Christmas break.
Love you.
Sarah (51:56):
Yeah.
And happy 2025.
Here we go.
Bam.
Chris (52:00):
let's make this year our bitch.
Sarah (52:02):
Yeah.
Amen.
Love you.
Chris (52:04):
Love you.
Hello and welcome to the mental funny bone.
I'm Sarah
Chris (00:07):
And I'm Christine.
Sarah (00:10):
we are not mother.
We are not mental healthprofessionals.
If you need professional mentalhealth assistance, please take a
look at our show notes for somelinks or, dial nine eight eight
on your cellular telephone onyour mobile.
to episode one of 2025.
Chris (00:30):
whoop, whoop.
Here we are.
Sarah (00:32):
I feel like we've really entered into a new phase of the
podcast because we can startsaying shit like, but we're
recording this, like by the timethis
Chris (00:42):
By the time this drops, we will be well into the new
year.
Sarah (00:47):
I'm yeah.
Anyway.
So I think that's really fun.
Chris (00:52):
All right, before we get into, get into this, tell me how
your meditation's going.
it's Christmas time.
have you been doing, have youbeen doing it?
Sarah (01:00):
Again, I really suck if other people are in this house.
this is where I need to make aneffort.
Because at the beginning, Iwould, even when no one owned
here, I'd go downstairs and doit.
and now I, If they're in thishouse, I just don't do it.
I don't know why that's veryweird.
So I had a few days off, but Iam using the, wake up.
(01:21):
Is that what it is?
The wake up
Chris (01:22):
Waking up with Sam Harris?
Sarah (01:24):
Yes.
Yes.
I do.
I do love.
That app.
I find it fantastic.
especially the talking afterokay, this is what we just did.
Here's, let's talk a little bitabout this.
so I really do like that.
and I have not yet increased to2 times a day of meditating,
which I believe will be, on my.
(01:46):
List of things to do in 2025.
Chris (01:48):
Like, when you get back into a routine.
right now, it's Christmas break.
it's the Wild West around here.
I haven't sat down to have ameal since Christmas Eve.
I've just been eating hamliterally by the handful.
Sarah (02:00):
Yeah, as you pass the refrigerator like just, sticking
your hand into the handbag inthe refrigerator and walking
like stuffing it in your face Istopped for five seconds and was
like, hey, we have somehorserad.
Nope.
We don't all right
Chris (02:13):
nope, alright, I've seen
Sarah (02:15):
fistful of ham I got
Chris (02:16):
it's amazing.
I ate, I think maybe four timesyesterday, like four separate
times.
I got all the containers out andmade a plate.
the last one being just a plateof cookies at, 1030 last night,
cause I needed that.
Sarah (02:30):
I mentioned you, I did mention you yesterday at
Christmas dinner.
my brother in law made, filetand, prime rib.
And they were fucking unreal.
Like he got this new to, no, nottoaster, but as a smoker thing.
and we also had Brussels sproutsand scalloped potatoes, all
smoked, everything was smoked.
(02:50):
It was so freaking delicious.
And as we were eating, I waslike, we need to take a video
and send this to my sister, toshow her what we're eating while
she's eating cold fucking ham,but we didn't, it
Chris (03:04):
It was
Sarah (03:04):
was very nice.
I had a very good time.
I like the games that we played.
we might need to work on ourcompetitiveness.
I feel like as we get older, itgets worse.
Chris (03:13):
We're fine.
Sarah (03:14):
there's yelling.
And there, it's not like we wereever quiet.
But,
Chris (03:18):
there's also a fair amount of mocking, too, which.
Sarah (03:22):
Yeah.
And sometimes we have to explainwhat we're doing.
Chris (03:26):
to outsiders who didn't grow up playing Monopoly with
your father.
yeah, we had game nights when wewere little, your dad would play
Monopoly with us and just whoopour asses.
Sarah (03:38):
and make us feel bad about it, like on purpose.
And I feel like that, that thathas made me who I am today.
One of my proudest moments in mylife.
parenthood journey was beatingOwen at Monopoly.
Like I have proof of it.
I took pictures of it.
I shared them with people.
and I made him feel like shitabout it.
(03:58):
He was six.
Chris (04:00):
I feel like when I go into a competitive situation, to
this day, I will chooseviolence.
if it were possible to hitpeople during a board game, I
would do that.
I would
Sarah (04:11):
throw those little sorry pieces at them and hope it pokes
them in the eye
Chris (04:15):
Eight skate and donate is what our father would say while
we were, I don't know thecontext, but it might've
Sarah (04:24):
an eight didn't have any special meaning like it was just
eight.
But as soon as you got an eight,eventually all of us would just.
At the same time, eight, skateand donate.
Chris (04:37):
I think it goes back to his, undiagnosed attention
deficit problems.
Thank you.
Sarah (04:42):
but it drives Noah insane
Chris (04:45):
bright.
and just to set the recordstraight, I lost, you and I lost
to, a team comprised of ourchildren and David, my husband.
Sarah (04:56):
so I am not claiming defeat.
I don't, I refuse.
I fucking refuse.
I want to recount We gave himtoo much time for that last
fucking question.
He didn't know it.
We should have cut him off.
Daddy was real pissed off aboutit.
I'm not sure daddy will comeback to Christmas Eve because of
it.
Yeah.
Chris (05:14):
one of the things I admire most about David is he's
not nearly as competitive as Iam.
he recognizes thecompetitiveness and he sees it
as a weakness and he will puthis thumb on it like a bruise
and keep pushing.
So as soon as we lost, he's, helike threw his hands up in the
air.
There was a celebration dance,like Icky Woods getting cold
(05:38):
cuts in that commercial forGeico.
was, and it continued.
Like yesterday, I'm like, Hey,let's play some trivia.
And he was like, Why, loser?
You wanna go back?
no, this is it.
This is it.
I will never have anotherchance.
and he is also bringing up thelast time I lost in trivia,
which was when Olivia was two.
Sarah (06:00):
Yeah, you need to somehow rope him into a game of
Chris (06:05):
Harry Potter trivia.
Oh my
Sarah (06:08):
am 100 percent certain you are the only person that
will ever fucking win that gamelegitimately.
Chris (06:16):
I can't wait.
I know what I'm doing tonight.
yeah, Christmas Eve was lovely.
Yesterday I sat on the couch forliterally 18 hours.
I found a
Sarah (06:24):
was nice.
Chris (06:25):
for present opening and did not move.
Sarah (06:29):
Yeah,
Chris (06:29):
Not a, I got up to get plates of food and that was it.
I didn't even empty thedishwasher from Christmas Eve.
Sarah (06:36):
yeah, our house is a mess like normally by now I have the
presents organized back underthe tree before they have to be
sent to rooms.
Literally all of Owen's likepile of shit is just in the
middle of the living room.
Like we've been stepping overit.
and there's some shit on thedining room table.
There's some shit on the island.
(06:57):
there's just piles of Christmasshit everywhere.
But I can say that this year wasprobably one of the best.
We, everybody got really goodgifts.
Yeah.
Chris (07:07):
I, I was telling Olivia that on Christmas Eve we would
go to, Nanny and Pappy's andthen we'd go to Grandma Carla's
and then it would be like two inthe morning by the time we got
home and got her settled intobed while she was terrified
waiting for a giant elf to dropoff presents.
and then I would start rapping.
Sarah (07:26):
Yeah, that's you
Chris (07:29):
I wouldn't finish until 15 minutes before she woke up.
And then I would cook all daylike I was so filled with joy at
doing this stuff though that Iwas super happy about it.
I was exhausted.
And I think on Christmas Day, Iwould cook and feed, for your
parents, for Carla, we would getthrough dinner, I would clean
(07:49):
up, and then I would pass outuntil, I was like a bear, I
would pass out until New Year'swhen I had to put all the
decorations away.
I would just hibernate untilthen, eat cheese and play games
with Olivia until I had to putaway the decorations.
Sarah (08:04):
it makes sense.
It definitely makes sense.
I
Chris (08:08):
Yeah, and I miss it.
Sarah (08:09):
normally, I, this is the first year we brought gifts out
before Owen went to bed.
Chris (08:15):
Awww.
Sarah (08:16):
That was like, I just came out with a stocking shit
just to get the stockings ready.
Cause Noah's normally the onewho gets up in the middle of the
night and does all the shit.
And as I was getting thestockings ready, he started
carrying the shit out and I waslike, what are you doing?
He's still in the bathroom.
And Noah was like, I just, Idon't, why can't we just put him
out?
(08:36):
Now, Is he waiting for Santa toget here?
Are we putting cookies out?
I don't know, what do we, and Iwas like, fuck, all right, do
what you want to do.
Fine.
Chris (08:45):
still put the cookies out.
I made myself a plate of cookiesis what
Sarah (08:49):
Yeah, that's what happened.
Oh, Owen's other gift was the,the human dog bed.
Chris (08:55):
Oh, I loved it.
I loved it.
Sarah (08:57):
Yes.
And it is,
Chris (08:59):
his brother.
Sarah (09:00):
it's, he comes home from school and I have Macho's bed in
the office here.
And he will come home fromschool and come in to talk to me
and lay on, put his head onMacho's bed.
Cause Macho's normally in thereand he'll And sometimes he might
fall asleep in there, just hishead on it.
But, I saw this on probablyFacebook and Mary was asking me
(09:24):
for ideas on what to get him.
And I was like, get him a dogbed.
She was like, what?
I was like, it's a human dogbed.
here's what it is.
Here's how much it costs.
I'll order it for you.
So yeah, he, as soon as we weredone with, opening gifts, we got
that sucker out, got it set upfor him.
He fell asleep in there until wehad to leave for dinner.
And then last night we camehome, he carried it downstairs,
(09:45):
which was my intent is that hewould have it downstairs.
That's where he slept lastnight.
Chris (09:50):
In the dog bed.
Sarah (09:52):
Yeah.
I got up this morning and wentin his room to wake him up for
work and he wasn't there.
I was like, huh, what, wentdownstairs and, there he was in
his dog bed.
I might get one for myself,actually.
Chris (10:04):
Amazing.
Amazing.
Sarah (10:05):
it's the pluffle, I think is what it's called.
So check it out, folks.
It's wonderful.
Chris (10:10):
Ridiculous.
All right.
We should probably do a podcast.
Sarah (10:13):
Okay.
All right.
Let's start with the fan mail.
so I, we're going to try tochange some things up here in
the new year and, just focus onone fan mail for the week, but
I'm already fucking shit up.
Cause I'm going to mention two,because they're the only two we
got and they're from Ryan andShauna and their husband and
wife.
So I feel like we have tomention both of them because I
do believe that they've been,two of our top fan mailers it's
(10:36):
been them and Kim D pretty muchkeeping us afloat here.
Chris (10:40):
Yeah.
oh, just a quick point of factthat I might've forgotten.
Ryan and Shauna are married toeach other and, they have
provided, some, amusing storiesand also, did they try to leave
bags of cookies around yourhouse?
Is that the story I rememberfrom prior episodes?
Sarah (10:56):
Yeah.
They didn't try.
They did.
Yeah.
It was them and our otherfriends, another couple, and we
traded.
I don't ever remember leavingthe cookies at the other
couple's house though.
So I think it really, they maybejust knew about it or they
started it.
And then we were really into it.
And I don't know, but like oneof the, one of the most
(11:19):
satisfying things was, Shawnacame over with her son and we
went somewhere and.
They had left, she left her carat our house and Noah sent me a
text because he had the keys.
She gave him the keys and he wasso excited about putting the,
cookies in her middle console.
Chris (11:36):
I love it.
I love it.
Ryan and Chana have madeprevious appearances in the
podcast, so welcome back.
Welcome back.
Sarah (11:43):
What I really like about their two emails is they share
Not just Hey, you guys are doingawesome, but Hey, you were
talking about this, let me tellyou about what I do and let me
suggest some of this stuff.
Ryan is a lover of the vitamins.
We were talking about vitamin Dthe other day and he is on D
three.
I am on D two.
I don't.
Owen used to go to the workoutplace D1.
(12:04):
So I don't like, I don't,
Chris (12:05):
I don't know.
Sarah (12:07):
and we're not playing college sports, so it has
nothing to do with that.
So I'm whatever, I'll have to,I'll have to figure that out.
And Ryan also mentioned, thateveryone needs the D and that he
gets his vitamin D from chickenand.
Brian loves the chicken
Chris (12:28):
I wish everyone could see my face.
Sarah (12:30):
and his mom used to call it the monkey
Chris (12:33):
Oh god.
Sarah (12:34):
and he loves monkeys and then Shauna would call their son
monkey.
Chris (12:39):
Oh.
Oh.
See, parents, just take a note.
Just call it a penis.
Sarah (12:45):
Just call it peanut, vagina, Yeah.
Chris (12:48):
It's not a dirty word.
Sarah (12:51):
or Vajayjay.
that's what I would say to Livbecause I still wasn't okay with
saying vagina to her because shewas a baby, but, whatever.
Chris (12:58):
so much better than vagina.
You're right.
Clearly.
Carry on.
Sarah (13:05):
someone said penis the other day and I was like, why
did they say, oh, the groomer ordog groomer.
And I was like, oh, I wish youwould have said weiner.
Makes so much more sense to me.
Chris (13:16):
You are like penis.
Sarah (13:20):
I was like, what?
Oh, it's weiner.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I'm, 46 years old.
anyway, so the thing that Ryantaught me is the form of
vitamin.
So do, are you familiar with themethylated form of vitamins?
Neither was
Chris (13:37):
vitamins or nutrition, obviously.
Sarah (13:40):
I still don't know a lot about the methylated form.
I have written down here thedefinition of, but I'm not going
to read it because.
yeah, I read it earlier tomyself and was like, that's
still.
Doesn't I, so
Chris (13:58):
Adenosylmethionine.
Sarah (14:02):
it's called Sammy.
and it's actually the mastermethylator, which is the only
thing I took of that because allI could think of was master
baiter.
That's the only and I was like,fuck things that sound bad.
Dirty, but art
Chris (14:18):
aren't.
Sarah (14:19):
so I've, I'll have to come back to that.
I trust, I trust, Ryan andthere's some studies that have
been done.
and it's all about a genemutations and how they prevent
our body from processing certainvitamins and minerals and this
form of vitamin, it's the mastermethylator and that apparently
helps us.
Anyway, so that was from Ryan.
(14:41):
He also mentioned, the consciousmind, which we've talked about
and
Chris (14:44):
I love it.
The concept of the consciousmind is amazing.
Sarah (14:48):
we'll continue to discuss the conscious mind of course,
and live, live probiotics.
I don't, do I take deadprobiotics?
Chris (14:57):
what was the culture that was in the yogurt?
Sarah (15:00):
Oh, yes.
Spon Bifidus Regularis.
I was going to say SponusBifidus, but that's like Bifidus
Regularis.
It was the my mom used to eatthe Activia because her belly
would hurt her.
Mom, we love you.
And I was reading, I justhappened to read the label of
the Activia.
I normally don't do that, but inthis case I did and found out
(15:22):
that it contains a bifidusregularis.
Somebody made that fucking
Chris (15:28):
Some marketing guy was like, what do we call it?
It's gotta have a scientificname.
What family name can we, whatgenus does this biotic that we
made up?
what species?
Oh, it's a bifidus
Sarah (15:42):
It's a bifidus.
It's a bifidus that makes youregular.
So we'll just throw us on theend of it.
Chris (15:50):
It's like naming a goddamn dinosaur.
Anyway, live
Sarah (15:55):
All right.
So
Chris (15:57):
probiotics.
Good for your belly.
Sarah (15:59):
Yeah, back to fan mail.
We're gonna switch over toShauna now.
Shauna listens to a lot ofpodcasts, which I appreciate and
love and She told us to checkout dr.
Daniel Amen.
Amen.
I think it,
Chris (16:13):
Yeah, whatever.
Sarah (16:15):
he speaks about brain health and the things that
interfere with it and how itaffects mental health.
And he talks about ants, whichthis is really what I want to
dig into because I definitely amovertaken by this.
ants is a huge problem that Ihave and it's automatic negative
thoughts.
I really want, we always jokeabout my brain voice, but I
(16:38):
really wish that I could recordmy brain voice and have
everybody else listen to itevery once in a while.
Cause you would be like, wow,are you fucked up?
Like the shit I make up in myhead is Unreal.
And now that I'm trying to bemore,
Chris (16:53):
Mindful?
Sarah (16:54):
yes.
And realize, wow, it's prettyfucking ridiculous.
I also appreciate that Shaunasaid, Sarah will not like him
because he is very much againstthe weed and the booze.
I can't say that's going to makeme not like him.
Chris (17:11):
It's just going to make you reject part of his theory.
Sarah (17:14):
I, it's not even that I reject it.
It's like smoking cigarettes.
I know it's bad.
Like I know the weed and thebooze are not helping my mental
health.
but I continue to do them.
I have committed to dry Januaryagain.
I will be doing dry January andI even have shit planned like
going out plans for January, butI will be doing them sober.
Chris (17:39):
want to do Dry January.
Sarah (17:41):
Last time I did dry January, number one, I lost a
shitload of weight.
Number two, I ended up doing dryJanuary, February, and half a
March until St.
Patrick's day.
So maybe we'll do that again.
I am, I'm committing to dryJanuary.
Chris (17:56):
I'm going to do Dry January.
I think it,
Sarah (17:59):
Last time I did it, I also, I just hid, I just didn't
go
Chris (18:03):
Oh, don't do that.
Sarah (18:05):
This time I'm going to make an effort to actually still
do things, and just do them dry.
And I also wrote down here thatI need to look up Tom Holland's
non alcoholic beer and where Ican get it.
Chris (18:18):
Wait, who's Tom Holland?
Is he Spider
Sarah (18:19):
Spider Man.
Yeah, he was an alcoholic.
I haven't really looked up a lotof, he's five, I
Chris (18:25):
He's barely, he's a child.
Sarah (18:28):
yeah.
So that's his, I just saw him,it was a prerecorded episode,
but it was on live and Iactually watched it months back
when it was actually new.
yeah, but that was one of histhings.
He was like, I just wanted, Iwanted to be able to partake in
that and, but there was nothingreally that was good out there
that tasted like beer.
(18:48):
But, it didn't make me an idiotor an asshole, yadda.
so I want to check that out andstart looking into ways that,
Maybe I'll learn how to besocial without being drunk.
Chris (18:57):
Love it.
We'll give it a go.
Sarah (19:00):
so yeah, so there's that.
So thanks Ryan and Shauna.
Appreciate it.
My Gaster story.
Do you want to, I have to pullmy screen down here to be able
to look at my Gaster story.
Okay.
Chris (19:12):
It's been so long since I've used my mouse, it won't
even click.
There we go.
Oh! ha! I've just looked at thetab.
Sarah (19:18):
Yeah, Out of water.
Chris (19:20):
Classic.
Classic Gaster Girl story.
Sarah (19:24):
The Gaster Girls story of the week is about our New Year's
Eve 2000.
Y2K.
Everybody,
Chris (19:30):
Y2K.
Sarah (19:31):
Everywhere, the world was just gonna It was abdink.
Chris (19:35):
Can I set the stage?
Sarah (19:37):
it.
Absolutely, go for it.
Yes.
Chris (19:42):
I, I was married, to my first husband, Mike, and we were
living in Arizona in a lovelytwo bedroom apartment.
and you were living in the otherbedroom, right?
You were living there.
So you didn't just come out tovisit.
Sometimes I get a little fuzzyon when you were there and when
(20:02):
you weren't.
and Mike had made friends, Ithink, I don't know how, I can't
remember.
but he had work, work friendswith, with this cluster of
people who had been friends fora considerable amount of time.
Sarah (20:17):
I'm going to interrupt because my memory, it wasn't a
cluster of people.
He made friends with one
Chris (20:23):
Oh no.
He made friends with one personin the cluster.
Sarah (20:26):
their, in my understanding, their friendship
was they invited you guys to aHalloween party every year.
That
Chris (20:34):
don't even think I had never met him.
Sarah (20:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
that might be the case.
I feel like we did go to theHalloween party prior to
Chris (20:43):
Was it, was Steve, so Hobbit Steve?
Was this the Halloween party?
I can't remember.
No.
Oh, so confused.
Halloween, Hobbit Steve was NewYear's Eve party, right?
Sarah (20:53):
yeah, I don't know.
I think Hobbit Steve was arandom Wednesday night at
Anderson's.
I don't know.
Chris (20:58):
Ew, I just threw up in my mouth.
Sarah (21:01):
anyway, go ahead.
Chris (21:02):
So Mike makes friends with this one guy.
whose name I can't remember now.
but, they were a married coupleand, they had a couple of other
married friends, couples, andthey had been friends for since
college and we're like maybe 10years, like they had a whole
history, this group of people.
And, and they had madearrangements.
to stay Airbnb like before thatwas a thing.
(21:24):
they were staying, somebody inthe group had a relative, like
an aunt,
Sarah (21:28):
But that relative was still in the house, but go
ahead.
I,
Chris (21:33):
It had a, it was the, now, I might be misremembering.
But I feel like this was like aluxury mansion that they
couldn't afford and had falleninto some disrepair.
there were bedrooms aplenty andthere was like an indoor pool
with a room to go with it.
Sarah (21:53):
that's vaguely what I remember as well, but I'm not
really sure.
I don't know if we made that up,but anyway, go ahead.
Chris (21:58):
that's the memory I have.
And, we, the group of people wasmade up of people from all ages
and all walks of life.
Again, I knew this guy maybefrom meeting him at a party
once, like I'd probablyinteracted, I'd add maybe five
minutes of conversation and, Idon't know this for sure.
But what I suspect happened ishe was talking about it with
(22:21):
Mike and Mike said, Oh, thatsounds like a lot of fun.
And he was like, yeah, youshould come.
And Mike said, we would love to.
Sarah (22:29):
Yeah.
Chris (22:29):
And this guy went, oh my, so now we're going, me, you, and
Mike.
And I had been sick.
I had a horrible fever, and Ithink I had the flu.
leading up to, between Christmasand New Year's.
So I was laying on the couchwatching, watching old 70's
reruns on TV.
Until the day we packed andleft.
Sarah (22:52):
Yeah.
Chris (22:53):
There you go, that's the background.
I've set the stage.
Sarah (22:56):
you've set the stage.
this couple had a van.
Chris (22:59):
Oh, they did, yeah.
I don't think it was their van.
Sarah (23:03):
maybe they borrowed it, but we drove with them
Chris (23:09):
All of us.
Yeah, we got to know each otherin the van.
Sarah (23:11):
in the van.
and then we met these otherpeople at this house that we, I
could not figure out who thefuck owned the house and what
she was doing.
She, for some reason in my headwas Mrs.
Roper.
Chris (23:25):
Yes, because her hair was super curly and blonde.
Sarah (23:28):
yeah, like it was, I don't see, there was, okay, so
we get there, we go inside, it'sweird, there's like sleeping
bags, the sleeping arrangement'sreally weird, and it's not very
comfortable, let me tell you,it's really not.
I don't know exactly how ithappened, but you and I ended up
sleeping in the van, in thedriveway.
Chris (23:50):
I think Mike did too.
I think that was the deal.
they were like, happy to haveyou.
There's no place to sleepinside.
So yeah, definitely come on ourpre planned vacation that we,
you just invited yourself tolast week.
there's nowhere to sleep.
So you guys are going to be inthe van.
And Mike was like, yeah, soundsgreat.
And.
Sarah (24:09):
And.
Vegas or not, it was chilly.
It was, for us, cause we livedin Arizona, so it was cold and
we were sleeping
Chris (24:17):
In a
Sarah (24:18):
van.
in a van and as we weresleeping, trying to get to sleep
the first night, you realize youhave a cold sore.
Chris (24:26):
I do, yeah.
Sarah (24:26):
The first cold sore ever after me living 21 years
attempting to give her a coldsore.
She finally developed one on herown and was extremely upset
about it.
We named it Steve.
It was quite
Chris (24:41):
know what to do.
Sarah (24:43):
Yeah.
And I did nothing but fuckinglaugh
Chris (24:47):
It was awful.
I'm trying to meet new people.
I'm like, hey, how's it going?
don't look at it.
And, to go along with what wewere learning, what we're
learning today.
I was so afraid of what peoplewere thinking about this cold
sore.
Sarah (24:59):
And it wasn't even, for those of you, for my fellow
herpes sufferers, it wasn't eventhat bad of a cold sore.
It was like one that was in thecorner that you could barely
even see unless you
Chris (25:09):
It was right here.
Sarah (25:11):
no, it was here.
Chris (25:12):
No, it was here.
Sarah (25:14):
regardless, it wasn't up in your fucking
Chris (25:16):
no.
It was tiny.
It was
Sarah (25:18):
it was a baby.
Baby Steve is what it was.
It was baby Steve.
That's what it was.
Anyway.
So this is Las Vegas, 2000.
We're going into 2000.
We had some crazy fuckingoutfits on.
We had to get dressed up.
I think there were silk blousesinvolved, some skirts, some
chunky heels that of course weregoing to be wonderful as we're
(25:42):
walking up and down the stripfor the next 12 hours.
The strip shut down, I'm goingto tighten it up here.
Just make it pretty quick.
the strip there was there werethe army guys or police officers
on horses all over the place.
and.
It was insane at 1130.
They shut the doors to all thecasinos.
if you were outside.
(26:02):
Like they were so worried aboutshit, all the machines going
fucking crazy at midnight.
So if you were inside.
If you were outside.
That's the way it was.
So we decided to hang out on thestrip.
Asses to fucking elbows.
Like today, Sarah would lose herfucking mind.
I was losing it then, I think,
Chris (26:20):
Pretty
Sarah (26:20):
but the thing I very specifically remember is some
guy walking towards us.
He had a backpack on and he wasscreaming and yelling.
And I think they were all greatthings.
He was happy new year, superexcited before midnight.
And he was taking sips of beerand spinning it up in the air.
(26:40):
That seemed.
To be okay.
And I was like, wow, look atthis guy.
He's going to get fuckingkilled.
And do you remember this
Chris (26:47):
enough.
Sarah (26:48):
The guy, I think it was a guy like in front of us or a
couple of people in front of usjust sucker punched him right in
the face and knocked him thefuck out.
Chris (26:58):
It was a whole evening of horrific things happening.
Sarah (27:02):
Oh, no, it was behind us.
Cause one of the guys we werewith tried to grab his backpack
and help him out.
Hey dude.
And he was like, fuck you.
And obligerate.
And he was like, all right, goahead.
And then the next group ofpeople.
Somebody just flattened him.
It was,
Chris (27:20):
again, you're If you've ever been to Vegas, the Strip,
that street is like a six lanehighway.
With a divider in the middle.
It is huge, and there is a noplace to walk.
there's no cars.
They've shut it down.
So we're just asses to elbows,nightclub like atmosphere for
(27:43):
however many blocks the stripis.
And they locked you out of thecasino, and you had to have a
key to get in, and I had to pee.
Sarah (27:52):
yeah, there was,
Chris (27:53):
Everybody had to pee.
Sarah (27:54):
we were stepping in a lot of pee.
There were people who were justhanging out with pee in their
pants.
I guarantee It And then gettingoff the strip.
you couldn't fucking get off thestrip and we weren't staying on
the strip.
Remember we were staying at,Mrs.
Roper's van or driveway.
so we had to find a way to getthere and we somehow were by
(28:18):
ourselves.
Like you and I got disconnectedfrom everyone.
Chris (28:22):
It was just the two of us.
Sarah (28:23):
Yeah.
I don't know where Mike was.
It was definitely just the twoof us.
Chris (28:28):
And we were with like the old lady and like a young person
that I might be making up theyoung person, but definitely
somebody like we were 24.
I was 24, maybe.
Sarah (28:39):
21.
Chris (28:40):
oh, I had to be older than 24.
we were young
Sarah (28:43):
Yeah.
Chris (28:45):
We were young and somebody younger than us was
with us.
I remember right.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Sarah (28:52):
don't remember that.
Chris (28:53):
Anyway, there was an older lady.
How
Sarah (28:55):
It was fucked up.
We had to find a way off, offthe strip.
You couldn't, taxis and shit.
Yeah,
Chris (29:02):
did we get there?
Did we take a bus?
Sarah (29:06):
I vaguely remember being on some sort of train or bus or
something.
Ubers didn't exist.
We didn't take a taxi there.
So
Chris (29:14):
I think we took a bus.
Which is how we ended up at thebus station trying to get a bus
back.
Sarah (29:20):
Yeah.
And that was in fuckingpossible.
You couldn't do it.
Eventually we got back to Mrs.
Roper's house.
I, it might've been me, but Ithink it was you who basically
ran in front of a taxi.
Like we were off the strip.
Like we were like, fuck it onthe strip.
We're not getting dick.
So we need to fucking get offthe strip.
(29:40):
So we like, went right beyondthe strip and we were trying to
flag taxis down.
Like we were in New York city.
Chris (29:47):
right.
Sarah (29:48):
Which is impossible, they were giving us the bird and I'm
fairly certain, this is back inthe day when you had cash, we
just emptied our purses of cashand we're like, just get us,
please.
But you almost died.
Yeah, you almost died
Chris (30:02):
I think the taxi was going to run me over.
Like it had no, and then I thinkI held up like a handful of
cash.
And we shared a cab withsomebody else who couldn't find
it, who couldn't find a taxi.
Horrific.
Sarah (30:15):
point, it was a blur because I think it was like
three o'clock in the morning andwe had literally been trying to
get off the strip sincemidnight.
Chris (30:22):
Bright.
Sarah (30:22):
said, Happy New Year.
See ya.
Chris (30:24):
Peace out.
Sarah (30:26):
Anyway,
Chris (30:27):
we were the last ones to make it back too.
Sarah (30:30):
yeah.
Yeah.
So we should have just, I thinkwe thought we were smarter and
we were going to get somewherequicker.
So we took off from the group,but yeah.
And then we spent another nightin the van, and then we drove
home and I don't think we eversaw those people again.
Chris (30:45):
I don't think we did.
Sarah (30:47):
The next day we did go back to the strip because I
remember this vividly because itwas one of my best, one of the
best experiences.
I had zero money because I was21 and I just given any bit of
money that I had to the
Chris (30:58):
To the taxi.
Sarah (31:00):
and we go into a casino and I'm like, fuck, I don't have
any money to fucking drink.
I don't know.
All right.
So I find this video blackjackmachine and I sit down there and
I put my last 5 in it.
I think it was something like, Idon't know, two, three, four, I
don't know.
Hours later, I walked away fromthat machine fucking hammered
(31:21):
with 7.
Chris (31:24):
You're like Vegas is the best place ever.
Sarah (31:27):
amazing.
Do you know the next time I wasable to do that?
Chris (31:30):
Never.
Sarah (31:32):
never.
It just was that one lucky day Imade two bucks and got wasted.
And I told this story before andsomebody was like, but you only
made two bucks.
I was like, I was hammered.
De runk, drunk.
I stood up and fell over alittle bit drunk.
So no, I made way more than 2that day.
Chris (31:51):
Ugh.
what would make it?
Like.
what would make us run to chaoslike that?
what in a 20 year old's mindsetis I'm sure that'll be fine.
why would we be worried abouthow we're getting back to the
place where we don't have aplace to sleep?
what?
Sarah (32:06):
I don't think that was, you weren't, we weren't thinking
about any of that.
We were just, we wanted
Chris (32:10):
Hey, we're going to Vegas with this troupe of people.
We don't know
Sarah (32:13):
yeah, I'm fairly certain you and I were uncomfortable for
90 percent of
Chris (32:18):
the whole time.
Sarah (32:19):
unless we were really drunk.
And even then we were still abit
Chris (32:22):
a little bit uncomfortable, right?
I'm like, Hey, we have
Sarah (32:25):
but we didn't realize that Mike invited us until we
were already on our way.
Like we, we were under theimpression that we had been
invited.
There was a place for us tosleep.
There was Like
Chris (32:36):
whole plan.
Sarah (32:37):
yeah, we were under the impression that we were included
in the planning from the start.
Chris (32:42):
yeah.
Sarah (32:42):
We didn't realize until we got there that,
Chris (32:46):
Hey! I think we're the third, fourth, and fifth wheel
here.
Sarah (32:50):
yeah.
So it was rough.
Anyway, that's our new yearstory.
New year's 2000.
One of the,
Chris (32:55):
So fun.
Oh my god.
Sarah (32:59):
It was a good
Chris (32:59):
Terrifying.
It is one of those ones whereyou look back on it, and you're
like, how did I end up at a busshelter watching people do
heroin while trying to find acab?
Sarah (33:11):
yeah.
It was rough.
It was fucking rough.
It
Chris (33:13):
How do we not die?
How do we not, how do we notdie?
Also, think about how mucheasier these kids have it.
they could just call theirfriends and be like, Hey, did
you find a way home?
Can you stop by this busshelter?
You'll know it by all thecrackheads.
can you pick up, pick me up?
Sarah (33:28):
Yeah.
There was no texting asking,Hey, where are you guys?
Where were you able to find aride?
Where were you?
There was nothing like that.
Even if we could find a payphone, where the fuck are we
calling anybody?
We didn't know Mrs.
Roper's fucking number.
Chris (33:39):
We barely knew Mrs.
Roper's address.
I think I had it written on my
Sarah (33:43):
the other thing.
No, like how did we even getback?
that's insane.
Insane.
Chris (33:48):
my hand.
Cause I didn't have a purse.
I don't know where I broughtcash from.
did I have it in my bra?
Cause I wasn't going to carry apurse and wear those heels at
the same
Sarah (33:58):
I had to have a purse because I was smoking cigarettes
at the time.
So I always had to have acigarette carrying receptacle.
Chris (34:05):
And my feet were like hamburger meat.
Sarah (34:07):
Yeah.
Chris (34:08):
So many blisters.
New shoes, of course.
Cause why not?
Woo.
All right.
Should we get into some, shouldwe get into, some mental
wellness shit?
Sarah (34:19):
Yeah.
Chris (34:20):
Alright, finally at this point of reading the book, I
have remembered the name of thebook.
And that the author isn't, RickyGervais.
it's, the first rule of masteryby Michael Gervais.
He doesn't pronounce the S.
I don't know if you guysremember, but, a few weeks ago,
we talked about our boy, beefoven and how he was quiet about
(34:40):
his deafness because he wasafraid that he would lose his
place in society.
And that was our introduction toFOPO, the fear of other people's
opinions.
This week, we're going to jumpinto part one, of the book.
part one is chapters one throughsix, and we're going to cover
chapters one through four thisweek.
(35:00):
There's a lot of material hereupfront that we're going to need
as like the basis for the booklater.
so in, in the early parts herein chapter one, MG, Michael
introduces the concept of FOPO,and we've talked about this one
pretty extensively on the showalready, and also in our lives.
It's in our dad's, near famoustop five rules for life.
(35:22):
so quick shout out to Jumbo, forencouraging us all to pee before
we leave.
this is a different rule thanthat one though.
So our dad taught us fairlyearly on in life that, no one
gives a shit about you.
And although that sounds crueland unkind and like it might,
provoke thoughts of sadness,isolation, and loneliness, that
couldn't be further from thetruth.
(35:44):
so FOPO, Fear of Other People'sOpinions, kept us safe in
ancestral times and also inmiddle school.
So if, if anyone out there was amiddle school girl, FOPO is that
feeling of, stressing out overwhether or not to wear three
pairs.
of layered scrunchie socks, orif two would be enough to keep
(36:05):
you in the cool group.
so, these are, FOPO is, isimportant because it's able to,
keep us a part of the herd, andour instincts make it so that we
want to be part of the herd,because that's how we survived,
years and years ago.
Kind of the important thing isas we grow up and as we evolved,
it's less important to be partof the herd, and more important
(36:28):
to evaluate where those thoughtsare coming from.
So Michael Gervais mentions thatFOPO is our cue to look at what
we're thinking about.
and whether or not we're lettingthat fear of other people's
opinion, keep us from doingsomething that is important or
something that lines up with ourvalues.
And the trick is that Fopo isthe future looking piece of it.
(36:54):
So it's not understanding thatOh my god, I just said something
that was really out of place inthis context and being able to
learn from that Fopo is the fearof saying something out of place
and then not doing somethingthat's consistent with who you
are as a person so fopo is alying bitch, that needs kicked
in the dick is what I wrote Theability to read the room is
(37:16):
important, but it's also equallyimportant to understand that
allowing fear, to control ourlives is really unhealthy.
So there is a big difference of,valuing other people's opinions
and being aware of the contextin which you're speaking and
letting external forces, drivewhat you do in your day to day
life.
bringing it back to Jumbo'sadvice is, It's really thinking,
(37:39):
no one else is really thinkingabout us as much as we think
they are.
no one gives a shit about you.
It isn't about other people'slack of empathy, caring, or
understanding.
It's about putting otherpeople's opinions in
perspective.
they might look at your coldsore and, pity you for a second.
Ooh, that's too bad.
Ugh, it's so gross.
but their thoughts quickly moveon to what they're going to have
(38:01):
for dinner.
And why in the world would wethink it is a good idea to waste
our time and energy worryingabout what other people might
think when it's a scientificfact that they don't, that
they're not really thinkingabout you at all.
so do you remember the contextin which Jumbo first gave you
the advice?
Sarah (38:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was actually 23.
I feel like he probably tried togive me some sort of this, or
both of us, this advice earlierthan that, but the instance
where it literally came out ofhis mouth as no one gives a shit
about you, what, and I rememberalmost the date.
It was the week before September11th, 2001.
Chris (38:44):
Oh, wow.
Sarah (38:45):
the date.
yeah, I was, I, it was weddingtime.
We were going to a familywedding and my boyfriend at the
time, he was my ex boyfriend atthis time cause he had dumped
me,
Chris (38:56):
Dick,
Sarah (38:56):
his, I mean his loss, whatever.
but yeah, so I had been dumpedand it was wedding time and I
wasn't gonna have a date.
And I was very upset about thisand I was crying about it.
And I was like, I can't keepgoing to these weddings by
myself.
Like everybody in the family isgoing to think I'm not good
enough to get married.
Like that.
I never have a boyfriend.
(39:17):
everybody's going to see mesingle and alone again.
And they're going to think blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
And he was like, stop.
Just stop.
And at this point it wasirritated, daddy.
It wasn't like I'm gonna reallytry to help you out and be, talk
to you.
It was shut the fuck up.
Not what he said, but just stop.
just stop.
(39:38):
Listen to yourself.
Listen to yourself.
Do you think anybody gives ashit about you?
Nobody gives a shit about you.
And I was like, Oh my God,excuse me.
Chris (39:51):
That's
Sarah (39:51):
And he said, in this context, nobody gives a shit
about you.
Do you think we're going to awedding and people are going to
look at you and say, Oh my God,Sarah doesn't have a date.
They're not there for you.
They're there for this wedding.
And they're more worried aboutthe clothes they're putting on
their back or the date theydon't have.
So they're not thinking aboutyou.
It's not about you.
Chris (40:12):
It's
Sarah (40:12):
And, that was extremely powerful, and still plays a huge
part in my life, probably on adaily basis.
Because I get, I'm like, Oh God,what about, what are they going
to think?
And I'm like, they might look atme and be like, Hey, cold sore.
Nice.
Sorry about your luck.
And then again, and then they'removing on worried about the zit
that they have on their cheekwhere they don't even see the
(40:35):
cold sore.
that's, they're doing the samething we're doing and worrying
about themselves.
Chris (40:41):
like further along in this book, there's an entire set
of chapters about science willtell you, this isn't just
jumbo's theory of other people'sthinking.
there have been studies andstudies.
There's a really famous one withBarry Manilow.
You know who I honestly, I wouldgo see him in concert.
So FOPO is this, anticipation ofthe rejection.
(41:03):
So the fear is that if I do thisor say this, somebody is going
to react negatively and yourbody goes through a fear
response, FOPO is actual fearAnd once you're in it, it's hard
to get out of it.
So we are constantly goingthrough like a cycle The
mechanics of FOPO is you havethe anticipation part where, the
(41:26):
best example I think thateveryone can relate to is being
in a meeting and you're like, Ithink I have something to say,
and you're like adjusting yourposition and you're like, I have
something to say and then assoon as you think you have
something to say, you startanticipating the reaction of the
other people in the meeting andI'm like, Oh, I can't say it
because they're going to thinkI'm an idiot.
(41:46):
Oh, I can't say it because it'sprobably irrelevant.
I can't say it.
And then you start like creatingall of these scenarios for
yourself.
So you spend a lot of time inthis.
awareness and fear of whatpeople are going to think when
you say something and it mightbe a situation where you do have
(42:07):
something important tocontribute and now you're
instead of being engaged in thismeeting where you might a learn
something, You might be able toengage in the conversation in a
way that isn't, Hey, I have thisbest idea.
Look at me.
you might be able to work youridea in a way that's a little
more natural.
you shut that part of your braindown because you can't, you
(42:29):
literally can't pay attention totwo things at one time.
So instead of paying attentionto the conversation and context
of the meeting, you are nowfocused on 18 scenarios that
might happen when you mightspeak up.
So you're just in thisanticipation thing for forever
and ever.
And then when you finally see anopportunity to jump in and yell
(42:49):
out your idea.
you've moved into like thechecking phase where you're
constantly scanning, if you'reon a zoom call, you're looking
at the people in the zoom call,if you're just on the phone,
you're listening to reactionsinterpreting everything that's
happening.
Everything that you're seeing,like every pause, you're
interpreting that as arejection.
your fear response is making itso that you're seeing things
(43:12):
that may or may not be there.
and you're thinking about thenext phase, which is the
response phase.
when you're in that checkingphase, you're like, okay, does
that make sense?
and then you move into theresponding phase, which is where
you either pull back yourstatement.
Michael Gervais goes into, Ithink, five different responses
when you're going through FOBO.
(43:32):
what are they?
contort, conform, confrontcritique, This is the most
damaging phase because you'retaking who you are, your
identity, and you're making itinto whatever, eases the
conversation from that point.
Like you're so afraid of whatsomebody might be thinking or
might be doing, that you change,what you're doing.
(43:52):
you're trying to preempt aresponse, and you can see how
dangerous this can be when wethink about it in the context of
bad behavior.
So if you're in a group that'sengaging in some bad behavior,
again, going back to that13-year-old middle school girl
example, and you're like, Idon't necessarily agree with
what's happening and I probablyshould say something that lines
up with my values of being adecent human being and you just
(44:14):
don't, because if I do that,then, Kim's not going to want to
be my friend.
And it's really important for meto be popular because it's the
only thing I care about rightnow.
so it, it might be harmless as a13 year old girl, until you
start thinking about howfrequently you see that behavior
in true crime.
Sarah (44:33):
Right.
Chris (44:34):
I know that you can probably name at least three
examples where people havegotten murdered.
Because, other people are afraidto say anything.
And I know you've been in asituation where you've thought
about saying something in ameeting and you've not said it
and then you just ruminate on itfor the next five days.
Oh, I should have said it.
Why didn't I say it?
I should have said it.
Sarah (44:55):
or worse when I don't say it and then somebody else does
and everybody's wow, what agreat idea.
Like
Chris (45:02):
Fuck.
Each of those phases involves acost, you can't pay attention to
two things.
So you're missing the point ofthe meeting.
You're missing an opportunity toengage with someone else.
You're missing an opportunity toshow who you are as a person.
There's a, there's an energyinvolved with being in this kind
of loop that takes away fromyour ability to perform at a
(45:24):
higher level.
chapter two is these are thethings that are happening and
they happen all the time withoutyou thinking about it.
So what we're going to try to doin other chapters is recognize
when this is happening and comeup with some strategies for how
to break that cycle, how to getout of that loop and, ways that
we can protect ourselves fromgetting in that loop in the
(45:46):
first place there's a few fasttracks to get yourself in this
loop one of them is notunderstanding who you are as a
person.
So this is why 13 year old girlsfall into this all the time
because you just don't know whoI am as a person and then the
performance based identities.
So we'll talk a ton aboutperformance based identities
(46:08):
here before we wrap up, but,that's one of the sort of short
tracks to ending up in, in FOPO.
the chapter three is fearfactors, and it's really all
about being afraid, and whatsets us up to engage in this
cycle.
So we learned to be afraid, likePavlov's dog, you've been
afraid, right?
Everyone's been afraid.
(46:29):
You,
Sarah (46:29):
been afraid?
Chris (46:31):
I'm afraid right now.
Um, there's just a higher level
Sarah (46:35):
my natural state.
Chris (46:37):
There's just a higher level of stress in the body.
not only when you're in this,loop, mechanics of FOPO, or
you're taking yourself away fromengaging in, meaningful things
that are gonna happen, you'realso raising your stress levels
up high, and you're gonna findit hard to perform if you're, if
you feel like you're dying, allthe time.
go back to that instinct of, Iwant to be part of the group.
(46:59):
I don't want to be the personwho is, saying inappropriate
things at the company dinner.
I don't want to be the personwho's saying, old timey racist
stuff you want to be able tounderstand those kinds of clues.
that's an adaptation, that'sgood.
That you can engage in, and readthe room.
the problem is when it starts toencourage maladaptive behaviors,
(47:23):
and I wrote maladaptive incapital letters because I just
like it,
Sarah (47:27):
It is a good word.
It is a good word.
Chris (47:29):
like maladaptive behaviors are when you start to
get into that FOPO cycle whereyou're so afraid of what's going
to happen or what might happenor what crazy scenario you've
built up in your head that youcan't move forward.
so an important distinction hereis that, FOPO is a nonclinical
disorder.
this is just shit that happens.
you're not, to the level ofhaving, a social anxiety
(47:52):
disorder, which is a clinicaldiagnosis and might require some
professional help.
And he gives an example in achapter about a baseball player
who's really scared, and how hewent to see a therapist and,
Michael Gervais is apsychologist.
So he worked with him in a waythat was able to draw him out of
his fear.
Just as a note, FOPO issomething that we can work on,
(48:13):
on our own.
when you start to, develop thosemaladaptive behaviors, they need
to be addressed.
And sometimes you need toaddress them with a therapist.
So I will say again, Youprobably don't need a therapist
to deal with your FOBO, buthaving a therapist never hurts.
And they have some really goodideas about how to distinguish,
a little bit of fear of otherpeople's opinions and a clinical
(48:37):
diagnosis that could benefitfrom professional help.
So Um, I'm going to ask you aquestion.
should we, uh, keep going Andtalk about identity
Sarah (48:50):
I think identity is one that we should keep for next
time.
Chris (48:53):
Yeah, I do too.
I do too.
So what do you think about,FOPO?
what do you think about themechanics of it?
did you have any thoughts as Iwalked through all of that?
Sarah (49:03):
nothing different than what you already talked about.
I find it amazing, how faux pasis most likely a part of all of
our lives in the most, incognitoway, And we don't even realize
it.
and being able to finally,realize that this is going on
(49:25):
and this is something that we'recausing internally and that we
have control over this and wecan change this and also
discussing how it negativelyaffects us in our ability to
perform to the best of ourability.
I think that's something that wealso don't realize.
Like we might think Oh yeah,FOPO, like I probably shouldn't
do that, but we're not fullythinking of the.
(49:48):
negative effects that it canhave, and the extent of those
and how we can change our livesfor the better.
If we learn how to have a bettergrasp on the FOPO.
Chris (49:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
one of the things that I foundsurprising was that, Oh, we toss
out FOMO and FOPO and Oh,they're so cute.
They're so cute.
But when you really put somethought behind it, you really
are taking away from yourability to engage because the
fear is real.
Sarah (50:17):
Yeah.
Chris (50:18):
Your body's response, your body has no idea whether
it's being attacked by a tigeror you're worried about speaking
up in a meeting.
Like the reaction is the same.
Cortisol levels go up, stressgoes up, and you're really
taking a toll on yourself thatyou don't, that you don't have
to.
Sarah (50:35):
It's that science shit again.
That's awesome.
Chris (50:38):
it is pretty cool.
worrying about what people mightthink is hard.
Like worrying about what peopleactually think.
Sarah (50:46):
Yeah.
It's exhausting.
It's exhausting
Chris (50:49):
Looking at looking ahead and understanding the ways that,
that you can prevent that fromhappening is understanding that
it's happening in the firstplace and understanding how
detrimental it is to, torelationships that you're trying
to establish.
And.
it's gonna pop up in places thatyou probably don't even
recognize right now.
And being able to tease outwhat's good and what's bad about
(51:11):
being afraid of what otherpeople think about you is really
important.
It's an interesting thing forme.
Just like everything else we'regoing to try to do on this
podcast.
It's hard,
Sarah (51:20):
Yeah.
It's not easy, but, that's whywe're doing this so we can do it
together and help each other andhelp you guys.
Chris (51:29):
right?
Exactly.
next time we're going to talkabout identity and I know early
on in the podcast, we talk aboutperformance based identity and a
purpose driven identity and howthose two can trust and how one
is potentially better than theother one.
But there's also, a step by stepguide here to help us figure it
out.
You do love a step by stepguide.
(51:50):
All right, so we'll
Sarah (51:51):
Then let's wrap it up.
Chris (51:53):
Alright, happy Christmas break.
Love you.
Sarah (51:56):
Yeah.
And happy 2025.
Here we go.
Bam.
Chris (52:00):
let's make this year our bitch.
Sarah (52:02):
Yeah.
Amen.
Love you.
Chris (52:04):
Love you.
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