January 31, 2025 • 61 mins
In this lively episode of 'The Mental Funny Bone,' hosts Sarah and Christine introduce their podcast's mission to de-stigmatize mental health through humor, even as interruptions from Sarah's noisy dog, Macho, add a comedic touch. They revisit their podcast journey, discussing their early days, some family anecdotes involving a pet dog named Jigs, and navigating fan mail—or the lack thereof. The duo also explores mental health topics from Michael Gervais's book 'The First Rule of Mastery,' delving into concepts like the spotlight effect, FOPO (Fear of Other People’s Opinions), and ways to combat these psychological phenomena. They share personal stories to highlight these concepts, encourage open-mindedness, and stress the importance of asking questions instead of making assumptions about others' thoughts. The episode blends humor and introspection, making for an entertaining and enlightening listen.
How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!
Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to the mental funny bone, where we aim
to create a safe andentertaining space where
listeners can explore mentalhealth topics, find solace and
enjoy laughter.
This podcast aims to destigmatize mental health
discussions and empowerindividuals to approach their
own.
being with humor and openness.
I'm Sarah.
Chris (00:27):
And I'm Christine.
We are not mental healthprofessionals.
So if you feel like you wouldbenefit from talking to a mental
health professional, there areseveral links available in our
show notes.
So please avail yourself of theavailable resources.
Sarah (00:46):
damn it, macho.
Chris (00:48):
dog.
Sarah (00:50):
had, we, that was such a great intro.
I feel like we could shut itdown right now.
That's our whole fuckingepisode.
That's it.
Chris (00:56):
That's it.
Send us a congratulations.
we finally nailed an intro,
Sarah (01:02):
Except for the dog toy in the background.
Yes.
Chris (01:05):
40 episodes into it.
Sarah (01:07):
Is this 40?
Are We 40 episodes in?
Chris (01:10):
something like 42.
Maybe I lost count.
Like at the beginning, I waslike, we did 15 episodes and it
was like a super big deal.
Now I'm like, I don't know, 44,43, how many downloads, like a
much more into the content thanthe numbers this
Sarah (01:26):
a lot.
Oh Becca's giving us signs.
She's throwing up gang signs.
Chris (01:33):
she said zero four.
We've done four episodes is whatBecca says.
no, she's, she's telling me thatit's 40 because it's, that's
what that was.
Her internet, for me, looksreally crappy, so I can't see
what she's doing.
Sarah (01:51):
Whatever she's doing, it's fucking fantastic.
Chris (01:53):
she's brilliant.
I don't know how we livedwithout her, really.
Sarah (01:58):
fuck.
All right.
So we got an intro.
Sorry about the dog.
I can't close the door becauseOwen can't take the dog out
right now.
Chris (02:05):
Oh, he has a broken hip.
Sarah (02:08):
whatever.
Chris (02:09):
I'm sorry, hip a violation.
I'll be quiet now.
Sarah (02:12):
HIPAA violation on the broken hip.
All right.
Chris (02:18):
can you give him a non squeaky toy?
Sarah (02:21):
Hold on.
He's got several of them.
I
Chris (02:23):
wrong with you?
Sarah (02:24):
Hold on.
Macho, how about you chew on abone?
Chris (02:27):
you hear her?
Sarah (02:28):
chew on a bone?
Here,
Chris (02:31):
god, dear listener, I am so sorry.
The next thing you know, she'sgonna be making Squeaking noises
herself or chewing noises,whichever.
What is that?
Sarah (02:43):
dinosaur.
Or no, it's a dragon.
This is a dragon.
Oh, and he's looking at me asthough, cause I normally squeeze
his head, and then throw him.
So you can see Macho, he'ssitting there
Chris (02:54):
Ready?
Ready.
Sarah (02:55):
throw it.
She's going to throw it.
She normally doesn't play withme from that chair.
So I'm excited.
I'm excited.
going to squeak in a second.
Chris (03:04):
I heard him run away.
Sarah (03:06):
he was so excited.
right, we're done.
Okay.
Chris (03:18):
Okay.
as
Sarah (03:19):
wish you could see him cause he's literally laying on
top of her.
Chris (03:23):
know, no humper.
Sarah (03:25):
Okay.
Chris (03:26):
Oh,
Sarah (03:28):
he's giving Humper a little lick on the ear.
A little special love.
Whoo.
Chris (03:33):
up.
Sarah (03:35):
All right.
Chris (03:36):
Okay.
Seriously.
Sarah (03:37):
Okay.
Chris (03:39):
we've.
We've gone into the new yearwith a bunch of vim and vigor,
attacking the new year, if youwill, making it our bitch,
calling the new year our humper
Sarah (03:49):
Yeah.
Chris (03:49):
to draw out an analogy, maybe, and, so far, that has
resulted in us having a zero fanmail.
today's fan mail segment is.
in that there is none.
even because I've been, busytrying to get down here and get
Olivia to school.
I haven't talked to yourparents.
(04:11):
I've been sending Olivia as adelegate.
So I haven't even heard if yourmom likes the podcast anymore.
Sarah (04:18):
I don't think anybody's listening.
I think that they've justabandoned us.
Chris (04:21):
it could be, and,
Sarah (04:23):
They were like, wow, you guys made a decision to do shit.
And so now here's double middiesfor you.
Bye.
Chris (04:30):
middies, enjoy developing a thick skin, you two, here's
zero fan mail for you, carry on,
Sarah (04:36):
That's what's happened.
Chris (04:37):
fair enough,
Sarah (04:38):
We're gonna keep going.
Fuck
Chris (04:39):
you think you can stop me, 2025, you think you can stop
me with no fan mail, fuck you.
still my bitch.
Sarah (04:47):
there are true boners out there.
There are true boners out there.
They're gonna step up.
Chris (04:51):
Kim D.
Sarah (04:52):
it.
Chris (04:54):
Kim?
Bueller?
Sarah (04:57):
Hello?
Chris (04:59):
Is it me you're looking for?
Sarah (05:02):
No, I'll be so excited we put a little bit of lino in
there just for you Noah just foryou Oh and Aaron for you and
Aaron,
Chris (05:11):
good gravy.
Alright, moving on, to the,gaster story of the week, and I
would like to tell the story ofhow the gaster girls got a pet.
Sarah, you remember, our dogJigs.
second time we got a pet, notthe first time.
The first time was a bit of aExercise and grief, I think, for
(05:34):
both of us.
Sarah (05:36):
we had those gerbils or hamsters or whatever they were
called.
And
Chris (05:39):
Those don't count.
Those
Sarah (05:41):
lot of fish, a lot of fish, they all ended up in the
toilet.
I think that's what they do withthe gerbils too.
Chris (05:47):
I'm not
Sarah (05:48):
like the size of a turd just flushing on down there.
Chris (05:51):
Those don't count.
they're not real pets.
you don't have to take a gerbilout.
Yeah, you don't have to take thefish out.
walking the fish is discouraged.
this is the very first time wegot a dog.
he was a purebred dog and he wasreally cute and he
Sarah (06:04):
He was a miniature schnauzer just like Macho.
Chris (06:07):
And then he died.
Sarah (06:09):
And then he died when he was five months old.
Chris (06:11):
I think it was that quickly too.
we got him, we cuddled him for alittle bit, and then he just
flopped over
Sarah (06:16):
yeah, we cuddled him for a month, maybe two weeks, and
then he started having theseseizures and then the doctor was
like, yeah, we could do thissurgery on him that will, that
might help him.
It might not help him.
it might just land him in painforever and it's going to cost
you a bazillion dollars.
And daddy was like.
Chris (06:36):
We'll miss you.
Sarah (06:37):
He's going to the farm.
Bye bye puppy.
I
Chris (06:42):
the only one super grief stricken by this development was
Jumbo.
so Jumbo took it pretty
Sarah (06:49):
mean, I was pretty sad.
Chris (06:51):
I don't, I barely remember.
Sarah (06:53):
don't have a fucking heart.
That is why, but go ahead.
Chris (06:56):
Obviously.
Sarah (06:58):
It's missing.
There's just a black hole
Chris (07:01):
So I will tell the story the way I remember it.
Sarah (07:04):
and I will interrupt and everything you get wrong.
Chris (07:07):
Excellent.
So I think I had to be likeeighth grade, maybe like teen
years, but before driving.
Sarah (07:16):
I was probably 11.
Chris (07:18):
yep.
This makes sense.
This makes sense.
Sarah (07:20):
I was probably 10 or 11 cause we were downtown already.
And I was still in grade school.
Chris (07:27):
I love that you call Elizabeth downtown.
Sarah (07:29):
Dantan.
We're in Dantan already.
Chris (07:31):
We were living, we were part of the Elizabeth gang at
this
Sarah (07:34):
we were in the burrow.
Chris (07:36):
Yes, we were.
and, I remember that it wasValentine's day and I was very
sad because I was a teenager.
Sarah (07:43):
Not because the dog died, but because you, a boy asked you
out and you were too dumb torealize he asked you out and you
told him you had to go dohomework.
Chris (07:53):
It was a year before.
Sarah (07:54):
Oh, okay.
Anyway, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Chris (07:57):
You shut up.
I had friends.
I had lots of friends.
Sarah (08:00):
You
Chris (08:00):
covered this already.
Sarah (08:01):
did.
Chris (08:03):
so I was sad.
because no one would ever loveme, because I was, I was a
teenager with, braces
Sarah (08:10):
Yeah.
Chris (08:10):
and, an affinity for, epic fantasy novels and
mathematics.
Sarah (08:16):
There's your roommate.
Hi, Becca's roommate.
Go ahead.
Chris (08:22):
you're so easily distracted.
Anyway, so
Sarah (08:25):
it.
Chris (08:25):
I was sad and it was valentine's day and that didn't
help me at all in any of thisand I remember your dad Brought
this puppy home from the poundout on simpson howell road.
I believe in elizabeth ifanyone's familiar with the area
and he set this little blackball of fur down and it was love
(08:47):
at first sight And I, I lovedthis dog for the next 15 minutes
and I was so excited to, that mydad had bought me a dog for
Valentine's day.
And then Sarah came downstairs
Sarah (09:05):
Yeah.
Chris (09:06):
and then I realized it wasn't just a dog for me.
It was a dog for both of us.
And then I didn't like it asmuch,
Sarah (09:11):
He was just a tiny little ball of fur and he had paws like
the size of dinner plates.
Chris (09:20):
seriously.
Sarah (09:21):
And Daddy asked at the pound, I want one that's going
to stay small.
And they were like, yeah, thisone for sure.
Chris (09:27):
sure he's going to be tiny and he had like little
spindly legs and giant paws.
giant paws.
And, Jumbo's not dumb.
he's looking at him and he'sthis isn't a small dog at all.
This is
Sarah (09:41):
out.
Chris (09:41):
what Jigs looks like, look like when he grew up, was,
Santa's little helper from theSimpsons, like the dog from the
Simpsons.
Or Satan's Little Helper.
I can't remember which is right.
Sarah (09:54):
little help, one or the other, I
Chris (09:56):
remember which is the right name for the dog.
but that is exactly what Jigslook like.
And Becca, if you could justmake a note to find me a picture
of the Simpsons dog, that wouldbe amazing.
I will not do a thing with it.
I will not put it anywhere whereanyone can see it.
But I would like to have it forreference.
Sarah (10:15):
And I think that he should be in the Guinness Book
of World Records.
Chris (10:19):
It's for the dog that lived the longest and smelled
the worst,
Sarah (10:22):
I think so.
Wait, did he smell bad or was itjust his farts that smelled, I
know his farts smelled bad ordid he smell, I don't think he,
his breath was really bad at theend there.
I mean we never, it was likenever dog dental hygiene never
existed and he was alive for 19years.
So can you like.
His teeth just rotted for
Chris (10:43):
right?
He was dead inside before hefinally laid down years.
We had this dog.
Sarah (10:50):
Mommy and daddy are still finding hair in there, and
that's not even the house theylived in when they had him.
Like they've moved since hepassed, and they're still
finding Jig's hair.
Cuz that, he was the hairiestmotherfucker ever.
You'd wake up, and there's hairin your mouth like that.
Chris (11:07):
would get scared all the time because he was just a, he
was a very nervous, anxious dog.
And when he did his defensemechanism was just to shoot hair
everywhere, like some kind of
Sarah (11:16):
a porcupine.
Chris (11:17):
Labrador porcupine mix.
Just poof and there would behair everywhere,
Sarah (11:24):
And then he got One time he was real anxious about
something.
This is when we lived withgrandma.
So this is, I was in my lateteens, and he chewed his ass.
So like on the back, like he hadlike scabs, like right above
his, I'm showing you so you cansee right?
above his tail and he was reallydoing a doozy on himself.
(11:46):
So I, and it was myresponsibility.
I had to take him up to the vetand they had to shave.
had to shave him and give himointment and shit.
We walked out of there and Iwish we had cell phones at that
point.
Cause I would have loved, it waslike a big butterfly on his ass
and went down around his
Chris (12:03):
tattoo
Sarah (12:05):
It was huge.
Like all around his tail andthen down.
Yeah.
Chris (12:09):
Like a tattoo.
Sarah (12:10):
That's what it looked like.
He looked like he had a trampstamp.
Chris (12:13):
Becca and everyone else, this dog lived through Me
learning to drive, Sarahlearning to drive me going to
college, Sarah going to college,me moving 3, 000 miles away, me
getting married, me gettingdivorced,
Sarah (12:26):
me, moving 3, 000 miles away.
Me coming back.
Chris (12:29):
Nita and Jumbo, moving, to where we live now.
this poor dog was just aroundall the time and his name, did
we say the name of the dog?
I don't think we did.
Just the Simpsons dog.
His name was Jigs.
Sarah (12:43):
Yeah, we did.
Yeah.
He was a good dog.
Chris (12:47):
Named after my dad's uncle, who I heard stories about
last night, Uncle Jigs.
Sarah (12:51):
Oh, did you?
Chris (12:52):
Yes, I did because I went to see your aunt Albina
Sarah (12:56):
Oh, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
How did that go?
Chris (12:58):
it was fun.
It was fun I talked non stop forabout an hour and 10 minutes
Sarah (13:03):
Yep.
Chris (13:04):
and then I Paused to take a sip of water and then she
talked for an hour and 10minutes
Sarah (13:09):
Oh,
Chris (13:09):
about everyone that lived in the patch when she was
growing up.
Sarah (13:14):
That's exactly what we did when we went down to the
house to say goodbye.
That's exactly, that's, yep.
Chris (13:19):
It was nice.
She told uncle Sam to shut upthree times.
Shut up, Sam,
Sarah (13:23):
nothing new.
Nothing new.
Chris (13:26):
the best.
our aunt Albina is a, is anelderly lady, who is actually
our great aunt.
Sarah (13:31):
Yeah.
Chris (13:32):
so she is our grandpap's sister and, she is 90.
86.
She's older.
I'm
Sarah (13:43):
yeah, she's definitely, I think she's 92 and Uncle Sam's
90,
Chris (13:48):
sure.
they are both, they're bothgetting up there.
but it was so nice.
It was so nice to see them andbe reminded that I had an uncle
jigs, which then in turnreminded me of the dog.
And
Sarah (13:57):
the dog.
And here we are today.
Chris (13:59):
telling stories, that is how we ended up having this as
our gastro story of the week.
And I was so touched that yourdad would think to buy us a
Valentine's date.
Because usually at that time inour lives, it was more about
listening to your dad breathethrough his nose and telling us
to turn the lights out.
Sarah (14:18):
Yeah.
Chris (14:19):
Girls, are these lights on?
Is anyone in this room?
The lights in the thermostat, Ithink is universal.
Sarah (14:27):
I never touched the thermostat.
Chris (14:29):
I don't, I didn't even know what it was.
Sarah (14:30):
Yeah, I'm not sure I knew where it was in that house.
Chris (14:33):
I think your mom did and blamed it on us.
Sarah (14:36):
guarantee it.
Chris (14:37):
This is going to be a good way for her to give us
feedback because she's going tobe like, incorrect.
Sarah (14:41):
Yeah.
Talk shit on mommy.
That's how we'll get fan mail.
Damn it.
Chris (14:48):
Absolutely.
And I bet Elaine C, up inBoston.
I bet her dad breathed throughhis nose and complained about
the lights and the, and thethermostat.
I think that's how we're justgoing to do these little mini
shout outs until someone saysthey like us.
Sarah (15:02):
someone sends us an email.
Right.
Chris (15:06):
what other good jigs stories do I have?
there was a party at our house,and I know you'll remember this
with.
And, the nice lady that I workedwith at the 5 and 10 in downtown
Elizabeth, C.
D.
C.
D.
had a daughter.
And, they brought the daughterover to the house, the little
toddler, like four, three orfour, and she's walking around,
(15:26):
and she sees jigs and jigs has,jigs had a tail that stood at
attention all the time.
Like it was pointed up over hisback.
Sarah (15:34):
He had a bone or a tail.
Chris (15:36):
he did have a boner tail.
It was pretty funny to it.
See what I did there.
and what it did was just,provide a very targeted, pink
space on his backside.
So you could clearly see hisbutthole at all times.
And, what this little girl,Doralee wasn't her name, but
(15:58):
that's what her mom told us thatshe was going to name her, took
her pointer finger and kepttrying to point at the dog's
butthole and then pointingwasn't enough.
So she kept trying to.
Get closer and closer totouching jigs his
Sarah (16:12):
Drink the bottle.
Chris (16:13):
butthole
Sarah (16:17):
Everybody can picture this.
You can picture this.
The pink target.
Chris (16:21):
right and she's just like the perfect height like to
directly touch the A fleshy skinpart of his butthole.
she's wearing like a littlechristmas dress because I think
this was a christmas party Andthat is all I can remember from
that party is I think then thatit was my group of teen friends
It was our job to make sure thatno one touched jigs's butthole.
Sarah (16:44):
I vaguely, I don't remember the butthole touching,
but I remember this party, and Icould see vividly pictures of
it, like everybody in thekitchen and everybody was
wearing a Hanes sweatshirt witha poinsettia on the front of it
that was outlined in gold puffypaint, right?
(17:04):
This is the time we're talkingabout, right?
Chris (17:06):
Yes.
Oh my god Yes, and how those gotattached to the sweatshirt?
you bought you bought somefabric and then you cut out the
poinsettia with tiny scissors
Sarah (17:18):
huh.
Chris (17:18):
And then you glued it on with Eileen's
Sarah (17:22):
Schnetta Scissors.
Mommy, you've got to tell us.
You've got to give us You Ah.
The Sheeran Schnetta.
I gotta look it up.
I gotta look it
Chris (17:30):
it was a German craft, that you would do by cutting
paper.
And the scissors, you would buya kit.
Schirrenschnitte.
Sarah (17:38):
It just blew boogers out my nose.
Chris (17:42):
this has gone off the rails.
This is no longer about our dogjigs.
Schirrenschnitte.
Yeah, it was like a craft kit.
And, it came with like tinyscissors and you would
Sarah (17:53):
do you think you spell that?
Chris (17:55):
S C H.
E R, E I N, S C H, Schnitta,Mitta.
Sarah (18:04):
Oh, I found it.
I found it.
Chris (18:05):
Stop it! is a, it's, tell me what it is.
It's the tiny scissors.
Sarah (18:13):
it is spelled S C H E R N A E N S C H I T E,
Chris (18:20):
Mita.
Sarah (18:21):
which means scissor cuts in German.
It's an art of paper cuttingdesign.
The artwork often has rotationalsymmetry within the design and
common forms includesilhouettes, valentines, and
love letters.
like she had sheer and schnittakits to your mouth, like they
were kits and I always wanted todo one.
(18:42):
And then I'd like, I tried tostart and then I didn't have the
correct motor skills that youneeded to do such a craft.
Chris (18:48):
No one did.
No one did.
It was, you traced it and thenyou had to cut out a piece of
paper that was the size of aatom,
Sarah (18:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris (18:58):
right?
You had to get in
Sarah (18:59):
straight pin, the top on the straight pin.
That's what you had to cut out.
Chris (19:02):
You needed an electron microscope to see what you were
supposed to cut out with thesescissors, but that's what you
would use to cut the poinsettiaout of the poinsettia fabric.
And the, not a small poinsettia,a really
Sarah (19:15):
Huge.
It takes up the whole front ofthis sweatshirt.
Chris (19:18):
all over that and then you would get Eileen's fabric
glue and you would soak thisbitch and Eileen's fabric Glue
and you would press that to thesweatshirt, but it had a rough
look so you had to clean it upby using gold or silver puffy
paint
Sarah (19:36):
Yeah.
Chris (19:36):
to outline it and not just outline it.
Like you had to get
Sarah (19:40):
on the inside of the
Chris (19:41):
the design.
Yeah.
Sarah (19:44):
it was very pretty and took talent to do it because I
know a lot, can you imagine medoing something like that now
with my shaky ass hands?
shits for real.
We're going to have to find oneof those pictures too.
I know that they definitelyexist.
Chris (19:55):
pictures to find the Sharon Schnitta
Sarah (19:57):
Sharon Schnitta,
Chris (20:00):
a picture of the Simpsons dog.
A picture of everyone at aChristmas party in 1988.
Sarah (20:07):
with the Sharon Schnitta shirts on, Sharon Schnitta
shirts.
Chris (20:13):
know I have pictures of it.
I
Sarah (20:14):
Oh, I definitely do.
I can see it.
I can see it.
And I can see there's one wherethey're standing in the laundry
rooms behind them.
And then there's one wherethey're turned a little bit and
it's where that, where the bigTV was supposed to be, but we
had the tiny TV in it and it hada basket that was cross stitched
on it that said Anita's kitchen.
Chris (20:31):
Yes.
Oh.
Sarah (20:33):
It's, yeah, I can't remember what my own kitchen
looks like, but I can rememberthat kitchen.
And it was carpeted.
Chris (20:40):
Oof.
Yes, it was.
I wish I could find thatpattern.
I wish Chad could find thecarpet from our kitchen in the
80s.
can you generate brown?
Kitchen carpet
Sarah (20:56):
kitchen carpet.
Kitchen carpet.
I'd like to see your kitchencarpet, please.
What?
Fuck.
Chris (21:02):
Where are you shopping?
Sarah (21:04):
Sounds great.
Chris (21:05):
Yes.
madam.
Come on
Sarah (21:06):
we're at it, if we could get the wallpaper with the
little, horse racers on it.
Chris (21:12):
They weren't horse racers.
They were English foxhounds.
God's sake.
Sarah (21:19):
Okay.
Okay.
So Jigs, so we had a dog namedJigs
Chris (21:24):
We had a dog named Jigs.
And then my mom did a bunch ofcrafts.
Amen.
Sarah (21:28):
and there was a little girl and she stuck her finger in
Jigs's butthole because it was apink target.
the synopsis of this show.
Chris (21:38):
Great.
Hashtag butthole.
Sarah (21:43):
Pink target.
That's what I'm going to call abutthole from now on.
Chris (21:47):
My pink target is swollen and irritated.
Sarah (21:49):
You're a pain in my pink target.
Chris (21:53):
Not a place for girls, not a very feminine target.
Sarah (21:57):
fuck.
Okay.
Chris (21:58):
Anyway.
All right.
I think I'm done.
can you carry us on to somemental wellness stuff so we can
mercifully stop butthole?
Sarah (22:07):
I honestly don't think that I can, I'm not sure that I
can, I'm not sure I can followany of this.
I feel like anything thathappens now is just,
Chris (22:17):
take solace.
We're keeping with the 1988theme and you're going to talk
about Barry Manilow first, I
Sarah (22:22):
yes I am.
so let's get into our book.
The first rule of mastery byMichael Gervais, who
Chris (22:30):
better than I am.
Sarah (22:31):
I had to look, I had to find a video that someone else
said his name in it.
So I would say his name, right?
And then that led to me watchinga video of him today, which was
really nice.
it led to me writing a letter tohim to ask him to come on to our
podcast.
I didn't send it because thatwould be insane.
Chris (22:52):
send it! Why wouldn't someone want to come on our
Sarah (22:54):
I also wrote a letter to Dan Harris to see if he would
like to come on our podcast.
Chris (22:58):
He definitely would! He loves us.
He just doesn't
Sarah (23:01):
Then I sent a letter to Good Morning America just to see
if we could go on their show.
Chris (23:06):
Because You
Sarah (23:07):
while I'm throwing it all out there.
Chris (23:09):
wanna go skydiving.
Sarah (23:10):
no, I've already taken that off the fucking table, off
the table.
Okay, so let's get into chapterseven and it is, not Ricky, it
is Michael Trevay and I lovehim.
It's not like I don't know whohe is.
I just want to call him Ricky.
okay.
So chapter seven, it's a BarryManilow and the spotlight
(23:32):
effect, and poor Barry Manilow.
right off the bat, he's deemedthe patron saint of uncool.
Chris (23:39):
He writes the songs that makes the whole world sing.
Sarah (23:42):
see, I don't know the Barry Manilow songs.
I'm assuming that's a BarryManilow song.
Chris (23:48):
Yes,
Sarah (23:49):
I get him and Rod Stewart confused,
Chris (23:52):
similar hair.
Sarah (23:54):
right?
but then I was like, there'sgotta be someone else that's
uncool.
And I was thinking Kenny G.
Chris (24:01):
Oh, yes,
Sarah (24:02):
I feel like he would have been like, I feel like he should
share the patron saint ofuncool.
I don't know.
I felt like that was, I don'tknow who that is.
Chris (24:11):
master of the pan flute.
Sarah (24:15):
I, I'm concerned that you know who that is.
Chris (24:21):
had a unique group of friends in high school.
Everyone that I went to highschool with gets that reference.
Everyone that hung out with me.
Sarah (24:27):
Oh, okay.
I'm, oh, okay.
Chris (24:31):
Jenny's back me up,
Sarah (24:33):
that's interesting.
What is a pan flute?
Chris (24:37):
Becca, look it up.
We're going to need a picture ofa pan flute.
if you picture like a littlesprites or a little forest
nymph, it's the little flutethey play while they're
frolicking in the forest.
That's a pan flute.
Sarah (24:50):
it's mythical.
Chris (24:52):
No, it's a real instrument.
real instrument.
Sarah (24:57):
Speaking of mythical things, Owen said that the
national, oh, there it is.
I see.
Okay.
I know what it is now.
I know what it is.
Okay.
so Owen said that the nationalanimal of fuck, I can't
remember.
I
Chris (25:12):
this is a great story.
Sarah (25:13):
but it doesn't, anyway, he said it was the unicorn.
And I was like, that's not ananimal.
Chris (25:18):
It's not real.
Sarah (25:21):
It makes no sense.
Anyway.
Okay.
So we're looking at chapterseven.
Okay.
and the Barry Manilow and thespotlight effect.
So in chapter seven, it startsout.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Chris (25:34):
when I was really into being physically fit, I joined a
website called a nerd fitness.
might remember because I wasreally excited about it when I
found it.
I was like, this is amazing.
Somebody wrote a website justfor me
Sarah (25:47):
Yeah.
Chris (25:48):
and Steve Kam is the guy who runs Nerd Fitness and he
sends me an email once a week totell me all kinds of good nerd
fitness stuff and because Inever ever unsubscribe from
anything.
Sarah (26:00):
Yeah.
Chris (26:01):
He mentioned today The debilitating effects of the
spotlight effect was the subjectof his email.
So if you think the universedoesn't align on occasion and
give you, some good pointers insome direction, like Christine,
please do something other thansit on the couch and crochet.
(26:21):
You're not going to have musclesif you do that.
Sarah (26:24):
bam, it all aligns,
Chris (26:25):
There it is.
Steve cam.
Thank you so much.
Spotlight effect.
Now you should tell the peoplewhat that is.
Sarah (26:32):
so the spotlight effect, let's start out with in chapter
seven starts out with a studythat was done on a college
campus and they had, X number ofstudents that had to wear a
t-shirt that had Barry Manolo'sface on it, and they had to go
into a classroom and before theywent into the classroom, they
had to predict how many peoplewould be able to remember that
(26:54):
they had that awful BarryManalow shirt on.
Chris (26:58):
Aw.
Sarah (26:58):
So after they went in and they did what, blah, blah, blah,
they asked the people who saw.
These students with the BarryManilow shirts to recall what
they were wearing.
the students that had the BarryManilow shirts on, that would be
embarrassed to have the BarryManilow shirts on, said that at
least 50 percent of the peoplethat saw them would remember
(27:19):
that.
Actually, less than 25 percentof the people that saw them
remembered that they had a BarryManilow t shirt on.
is essentially the spotlighteffect.
It's, but, I
Chris (27:34):
it's a vomit noise.
What?
Sarah (27:36):
skipped ahead forgot what I was saying.
Okay.
Chris (27:41):
you go back to it.
Just go back to it.
You were doing great.
Spotlight effect.
I was getting distracted becauseI think Becca was trying to tell
her roommate that she waspregnant.
Sarah (27:51):
a lot.
Woo mama.
All right.
at least we know where we needto cut out.
Okay.
Becca, mark it down.
We're cutting out a lot of this.
Okay.
Chris (27:58):
Becca went,
Sarah (28:01):
it.
Chris (28:04):
Sorry, I was 100 percent paying attention to what you
were saying.
Sarah (28:07):
So the spotlight effect.
spotlight effect is apsychological phenomenon where,
and I'm so excited that I saidthat properly, I think, where we
overestimate how much peoplenotice or remember of what we're
doing.
So this is pretty much, thatnobody gives a shit about you.
We're always thinking thatpeople are paying attention to
us.
We think that all eyes are onus, but honestly, Everybody's
(28:30):
too worried about themselves andcaught up in their own Barry
Manilow crazy moments to evennotice that we've got a Barry
Manilow t shirt on
Chris (28:40):
great.
Sarah (28:41):
Gervais talks about what causes the spotlight effect And
he talks about egocentric bias.
I'm saying lots of big words
Chris (28:51):
I love it.
Sarah (28:52):
about it.
It's very excited about it.
So this is basically where welive in the center of our own
world.
It's just how we're wiredbecause we're normal ass human
beings.
The thing I like about this isit doesn't mean that we're
arrogant or self absorbedbecause I've been very much
aware that I have lived inmyself centered, focused world
(29:15):
for a while now.
And it made me feel bad, but nowI feel better because I'm not
arrogant or self absorbed.
Chris (29:21):
You're just person.
You're just a person Constantlyoverestimating how much people
care about you
Sarah (29:27):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's the amazing thing ofall of this is the gap in how
much we think people arethinking about us and how much
they're really not thinkingabout us, regardless of the
situation, whether it's apositive and negative.
Or a ridiculously embarrassingsituation that you, Christine,
would find yourself in.
Chris (29:48):
100 100 this Again, This is the best part about having
Jumbo as my dad, because Ilearned early on that no one
really cares what's happening tome, like, when I am walking
through the airport and I trip alittle bit and spill coffee all
down the front of my whiteshirt, I have a little bit of
(30:10):
perspective in that, nobodycares that just happened to me.
Somebody saw and they were like,
Sarah (30:14):
Yeah.
And that's the other thing.
Like somebody saw, somebodynoticed, like even in the Barry
Manilow things, like of those 25percent that remembered that
they saw Barry Manilow t shirts.
How long did they remember that?
It's certainly not a lifetime.
And there are certainly 20 yearsdown the road, not saying, Hey,
(30:35):
remember that dick that walkedinto class with a Barry Manilow
shirt?
no, nobody, no, it doesn'tmatter
Chris (30:41):
unless it was Barry Manilow.
Sarah (30:43):
where that might be.
It might be.
Chris (30:46):
Then you would remember.
So again, we're back to thejumbo rule.
Sarah (30:50):
Yeah.
I feel like that's, it'severything.
It truly is everything, andthat's what I wanted to write,
in my Michael Gervais requestfor interview about how my dad
is the one who really came upwith FOPO.
Chris (31:04):
think that's
Sarah (31:04):
And then I felt that we should have both of them on.
I think that's what we shoulddo.
And we should have nobody givesa shit about you and FOPO man.
Chris (31:14):
Like what would they do?
Would they just chatter awayabout how much they both like
Bruce Springsteen?
Sarah (31:19):
Yeah.
They would just chat.
They would, they could, they'relike superheroes.
We would get them littlecostumes, man.
And no one gives a shit.
There you go.
Anyway.
So I, created that.
Chris (31:33):
I don't think you're making a big, strong case for
Michael Jervais to join our veryserious and helpful podcast,
Sarah (31:41):
I don't know.
He seems fun.
He seems like he would dig it.
I feel like Dan Harris would.
Chris (31:46):
Please wear this leotard
Sarah (31:49):
okay.
That might be going too far.
Okay.
We won't do it.
We won't do costumes.
Chris (31:53):
Fobo man.
Wait,
Sarah (31:56):
It sounds scary.
All right.
Anyway.
Okay.
Chris (31:59):
wait.
I have another question.
what's the title of, the secondpart of the book?
Cause we wrapped up part
Sarah (32:05):
Oh,
Chris (32:06):
part one was called something and I can't remember
what it was called, but I alsocan't remember what part two is
called.
Sarah (32:11):
I want to say part 1 was something about identifying.
let me see.
Unmask.
So you unmask, and that's whatyou covered already.
Now, we are on to the assessingpart.
unmask, assess, redefine.
So it's I know I've said itbefore, catch, change, catch,
(32:32):
Shit.
Chris (32:32):
Catch shit.
Sarah (32:34):
there's a C in the middle there that I can't remember.
Okay.
Nevermind.
Cut that out too.
Okay.
moving on
Chris (32:43):
So part two is assess.
Sarah (32:45):
assess right now we are assessing.
So
Chris (32:48):
to have the base of the jumbo rule in order for us to
assess.
Okay.
Sarah (32:53):
Exactly.
Absolutely.
So the next thing he talks aboutis false consensus effect, which
makes a lot of sense.
Once you start reading about it,and this is our tendency to,
overestimate how much otherpeople share our beliefs and our
habits and our preferences.
and this is reinforced bysomething called selective
(33:14):
exposure.
this is, something that I havewrestled with for, I'm guessing,
fucking macho, I'm guessing mywhole life, but I really only
noticed it like a few years ago,which is embarrassing, but not
everybody agrees with me.
Chris (33:32):
Weird.
Sarah (33:33):
I don't, why would, I'm right, obviously, so I don't
understand why you want to argueor disagree with what I have to
say.
Chris (33:41):
How can you possibly believe that dumb shit you
believe?
Sarah (33:44):
So this is something I'm working on.
I have been working on this.
but yeah, I'm gonna kill thefucking dog.
Chris (33:50):
Don't do that.
so this one is funny for mebecause since I, since last year
and all of my ADHD stuff and I'mlike, oh, look at me.
I'm such a special littlesnowflake because I have ADHD.
Now everyone I meet has ADHD
Sarah (34:05):
Yeah, of
Chris (34:07):
I just project that on to other people.
I'm like, look at you.
I know what's wrong with you.
You have the same thing I have.
We're the same.
sometimes I'm right.
Sarah (34:18):
it's it seems right.
Yeah, it seems that you wouldbe.
I feel like that's just,
Chris (34:21):
Just people.
Sarah (34:22):
odds.
don't know.
Chris (34:26):
Just the people I like to hang out with.
Sarah (34:28):
you're just, you're pulling in the people that,
yeah, that you feel are justlike you.
there you have it.
So all of this psychological funshit that I've spit at you, like
all these fun terms.
I was super excited to have funterms and like actually say
things that exist and say thingslike psychological phenomenon.
(34:49):
Go ahead, Christine.
Chris (34:51):
I'm not gonna let you do it.
Pretend like you don't know bigwords.
Sarah (34:57):
I do know big words, but I normally fuck them up and I
won't say them because I feellike, I don't deserve to say
them because I'm dumb.
I am not dumb, which is why I'mbringing it all in this week
because I'm not fucking dumb.
I'm fucking smart.
And I'm going to show you guyshow fucking smart I am by saying
psychological phenomenon overand over again.
The next thing I'm going to talkabout is a psychological concept
(35:20):
though, and it.
is, I like, I'm getting the headshake too.
The psychological concept ofanchoring and adjustment.
So this is all all this shitwe've talked about is kind of
part of this.
a concept that when we'reintroduced to something new, the
first thing that we'reintroduced to about that, like
the first thing we learn aboutit is what we grab onto.
(35:43):
And we make that our anchor andanchors are hard to move.
But
Chris (35:49):
they're heavy.
Sarah (35:50):
yeah, if we want to keep moving on, we need to make
adjustments to the anchor.
it's hard to do that.
It's really hard to do that.
I know I do that and that's whatthat's.
Something that we've beenlearning and something that has
been new for me is to be able tosay, Oh, maybe that's not exact.
Oh, all I got to pick up myanchor a little bit dragging
(36:13):
along Maybe you think somethingelse?
Okay So anyway, I thought thatwas a pretty, pretty decent, a
pretty fun concept.
Chris (36:23):
So it's about having a little bit more of an open mind.
So it pulling it back to somemindfulness is the ability to
understand and recognize thatmaybe I've just developed an
anchor here and this isn't thefinal end all and be all to
everything that is true.
So maybe I open my mind up,maybe I take my little mindful
(36:45):
pause, open my mind up and thinksomething else.
Sarah (36:48):
Lift my anchor a little bit.
it along, if you will.
Sorry, I had a cough.
dog is, yeah, the dog is thedog.
All right, so towards the end ofchapter 7, he talks about what
we do with the moments when wereally are in the spotlight.
the big thing that I thoughtabout was a job interview.
Chris (37:11):
Oh,
Sarah (37:12):
So do we treat these as, it's just another moment or are
we treating it as the bigmoment?
and pretty much he says thatboth approaches are correct And
I think it just really dependson you as an individual and what
is gonna work out for you bestThe big part of this is that you
need to make a decision of whichway you're gonna handle it and
(37:32):
stick with it And mentallyprepare for that situation.
So if you're going to do, you'regoing into the interview and
you're just treating it like asany other day, then you're
you're chill about it.
You're not doing like a ton ofprep.
You're just, you're going inlax.
And when you go in there, youneed to make sure that you
remember that's the decisionthat you made.
(37:53):
And you need to keep that mentalcoolness state to you.
you.
can't go in there and twoseconds before the interview
starts, go,
Chris (38:01):
fuck.
Sarah (38:02):
what if this happened?
what
Chris (38:03):
Oh my god, I didn't prepare.
I didn't prepare.
This is the most important thingthat ever happened to me and I
haven't prepared.
Sarah (38:09):
Yeah.
You needed to make that decisiona little bit earlier.
So if you treat the interviewlike the big moment, which.
how I do interviews and obsessabout it.
Maybe obsessing isn't the bestthing, but I practice, I do the
mirror practice.
I do all of that.
I have all the questions.
Basically what you do is ifyou're treating it as the big
(38:30):
moment, you're practicing thosestressful situations.
You're putting yourself in thosesituations to make sure when
they do come about that you'reable to handle them, and show
everybody how bad ass you are.
Chris (38:44):
You, you, I completely lost a thought.
I was like, yeah, you justprepare like you're going to
present.
Sarah (38:51):
You just prepare like, you're gonna prepare.
You just prepare.
Chris (38:55):
fuck, what am I?
I'm John Madden.
Football is football.
And it's good because it'sfootball.
Red Favre.
Nobody knows who John Madden is.
Sarah (39:05):
I do.
don't people know who JohnMadden is?
Chris (39:10):
He's old,
Sarah (39:12):
Yeah, he's dead, isn't he?
Chris (39:13):
dead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's why he's not on TVanymore.
Sarah (39:16):
Yeah, okay.
Anyway.
Chris (39:18):
Anyway, yes, I love this concept of choosing, choosing a
way to approach it and thenpreparing appropriately.
If you think this is going to bea stressful situation, and it's
also about knowing yourself,right?
if I know that I have to feelnervous or I'm not going to feel
okay going into a meeting, thenI got to prepare like it's an
(39:39):
important thing.
Sarah (39:40):
Yeah.
Chris (39:41):
And I have to put myself in those nervous, stressful
situations every once in awhile, or I lose focus and end
up shaky voiced in a meeting.
Sarah (39:50):
And I, the, the talk I was listening to today that
Michael Gervais did, hementioned something about this,
like going into presentationsand public speaking and things
of that nature where you're, oran interview, anything really
where you're nervous and youhave that like anxiety built up.
It's people who are living aPurpose driven life versus the
(40:15):
performance driven life.
That feeling is because whatyou're doing that purpose, that
the outcome of what you're doingis going to have something, an
outcome.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Effects.
Yeah.
It has an impact on the purposethat you have committed to.
So that's where your nervousnessis coming from.
(40:37):
Whereas if you're a performancebased, you're going into it
like, fuck, I'm going to fuck ifI fuck up, if I don't do it
exactly right, this is whatpeople are going to think.
So there's the difference.
so I thought that was prettycool.
Chris (40:52):
it really is.
Cause I'll give you a story fromtoday.
Like I got a phone call lastnight.
Hey, these clients are upset.
can you get on the phone withthem?
Yeah, sure.
It's what I do.
It's my job.
Yes.
Obviously I can get on the phonewith them.
And then it comes time to get onthe phone with them.
And I'm like, this is the firsttime this client has seen you in
action in front of, this is thefirst time that this group of
(41:16):
people has seen you in action infront of a client.
And then I got in my own headand had a shaky voice first
three minutes until I went,Christine,
Sarah (41:30):
Christine.
Chris (41:31):
don't be a dick.
You have everything you need tomake this meeting successful
right in front of you.
Stop it.
And then he went,
Sarah (41:41):
fine.
Chris (41:45):
meeting turned out great.
Client
Sarah (41:47):
you go.
Congratulations.
Chris (41:50):
but it was being able to recognize that, You have
everything that you need to do.
Like you, you prepared you, youhave bullet points to talk
about.
You are not going to be caughtwith your pants down.
And even if you are caught withyour pants down,
Sarah (42:03):
You got a big dick.
Chris (42:05):
I don't have
Sarah (42:06):
don't know.
I feel like that's, I feel likethat's where we were going.
It was, caught with your pantsdown, it's totally fine because
you got a big dick
Chris (42:14):
it wasn't.
It was that, it was simply thatI don't need the validation of,
of being unprepared or ofhaving, yeah, I don't need the
validation of having a big dick.
I am fine and enough, in thesesituations and, if I have to
apologize and start over then,so what?
(42:34):
Who gives a shit?
Nobody cares.
Nobody cares.
Sarah (42:37):
Nobody cares.
Chris (42:39):
the client cares because they're losing millions of
dollars every day, but
Sarah (42:42):
but there's a whole difference there.
It's not, yeah, when you'resaying like, nobody gives a shit
again, it goes back to the.
Performance versus the purpose.
we care about the purpose.
Of course, we care about thepurpose.
Okay, let's move on to chaptereight.
You ready?
Chris (42:59):
I'm ready.
What is it?
Sarah (43:00):
eight.
Hi, Macho.
Do you want to just sit here andlet me scratch you so you'll
stop barking?
How about that?
Okay.
That was my Macho voice.
I hate my kid for having a hipproblem now, so he can't take
the Fucking dog out.
Stupid crutches.
Okay.
anyway, so now on to
Chris (43:18):
so much to cut out so much
Sarah (43:21):
It's
Chris (43:21):
chapter 8 carry on
Sarah (43:23):
Chapter eight.
We talk about the birth of Fopo.
So we talk about where, rightout the chicken.
wonder how big Fopo was.
Chris (43:31):
Stop it PZ out of me.
Let's just throw them all outthere.
Sarah (43:35):
so we talk about the birth of Fopo and discuss the
question, do we really know whatsomeone else is thinking?
So the birth of Fopo, What youhad something to say?
Chris (43:46):
I like that.
I like this I read it and Iforgot that I read it and now
that you said it I remember andI liked it
Sarah (43:52):
Oh, okay.
Good.
Yeah.
I like this too.
It's, Gervais talks about whereFOPO came from and his
background.
he mentioned at the beginning,it was at the, it started with
his, psychology studies, but onthe call or on the, Interview I
watched today.
He had mentioned that FOPO issomething that he started
recognizing like his teensanyway
Chris (44:20):
FOPO in your teens.
Got it
Sarah (44:21):
Okay, so he starts out in his studies of psychology and at
this time there was still thatmajor stigma that Psychology was
more of a reactive tool forfixing things that are broken
and whatever you're fixing thatneeds to be done behind closed
doors.
It's not discussed anywhereelse.
It wasn't considered psychologywasn't considered to be a
(44:45):
proactive practice where youinvest in your own well being
and where you can use it toimprove your performance.
Gervais says, another, FightClub reference.
It's like Fight Club.
The first rule of psychology iswe don't talk about psychology.
Chris (45:04):
Ugh, this is everything this podcast is against.
Sarah (45:08):
yes, and he didn't like that.
He was like, no, I don't thinkthat's how it should be.
And he wondered from the verybeginning of his studies in
psychology, like what couldthings be like if we started
talking about it, if wechallenged that, if we drew a
little bit outside the lines,and he wanted to change that
conversation.
But He had an internal dilemmaif he did that, what was that
(45:35):
going to say about him?
What were his peers going tothink?
How would he be judged on aprofessional level?
And that kind of Was in the backof his head constantly and
probably slowed down hisprogress to getting where he did
eventually get to and Upongraduation, he decided to go
into, sports psychology anddecided to go into the extreme
(45:59):
sports because he wanted to,draw outside the lines and kind
of change things around andextreme sports at that time.
that's what was happening in
Chris (46:07):
he's a rebel.
He's a rebel and he never everdoes what he should.
Sarah (46:12):
Wow.
Did you just make that up?
What song is that?
Chris (46:15):
No, it's from the fifties.
Sarah (46:16):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
So yeah.
So extreme sports was rewritingthe rules on regular sports.
So he wanted to do that inpsychology.
So that's what he got into.
So this is where he, Startsworking with M.
A.
M.
A fighters gonna kill thefucking dog really?
(46:38):
Okay, so he starts working withan MMA fighter a well known MMA
fighter and He has theopportunity to work with this
guy prepare for like big fightAnd there's a lot of psychology
behind that if you think aboutit, and a lot of sports It's all
about psychology.
especially when you get on thatelite level, it's really, your
(47:00):
body becomes just the extensionof what you can do in your mind.
So that's what he was all aboutand working with this guy and,
coming out for that fight, wason the coaching staff.
when they come out for the MMAfight, they're walking out and
they have the coaches behindthem and everything.
He was, he was a part of that.
And after the fight, everythingwent awesome.
(47:22):
He won the fight.
He was all excited about it.
He was super excited abouteverything that he was learning
about psychology and, sports andthe things he was going to be
able to do.
And after that fight, he got acall from his mentor and his
mentors said, Hey, what are youdoing?
What are you doing?
Walking behind an MMA fighter ontelevision.
(47:43):
And he was like, what, like allthe excitement that he had.
He was.
He lost it.
He was done.
was gone.
He called his wife, who I havenow, I now love.
Her name is Lisa.
And he called his wife and hetold her, and she was like, you
know what?
You should tell him, fuck off,
Chris (48:03):
Suck a bag of dicks.
Sarah (48:04):
suck a bag of dicks mentor.
thank goodness for all of us,cause what would we do without
the concept of FOPO?
He continued to go on his wayand, wrote off his mentor and
continued to do what he wasdoing.
And working with the elitesports and talking about things,
(48:24):
making it, helping it D stick,you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
talking about mental health andbringing it out there, along the
way, he's still internallystruggled with, what his mentor
really meant because he justtook it for what he thought it
was.
And that's what he thought hismentor was saying.
No, you need to get back in yourlane.
(48:44):
You need to get back behind theclosed door.
And he struggled with that forquite some time.
And he eventually got theopportunity to talk to his
mentor.
He had come to one of his talksand when he got the opportunity
to ask him, what did you mean bythat?
He decided he didn't care he wasgoing to continue on with what
he was doing.
(49:05):
And the major lesson he took outof that for himself was had.
Had I just asked at that time, Iprobably wouldn't have lost that
friendship.
And that would have been arelationship that could have
been an awesome professionalrelationship, whatever.
But in addition to that, I couldhave learned something more
(49:26):
about myself.
So instead of questioning, hejust went on and said, this is,
I know exactly what he'sthinking.
So this leads us into how do weknow what people are thinking?
And are we really able to.
Decipher what people arethinking.
Chris (49:40):
I love this.
Sarah (49:42):
So this, if you think about it, I mean on a daily
basis we're constantly trying tofigure out what people are
thinking and we think that we'rereally good at it.
I think I'm really good at it.
Like I could walk away and belike that's what a bitch.
Meanwhile, she's not a bitch atall and I'm just making that up.
Yeah.
Anyway, so we come to anotherstudy that was done with
(50:05):
couples.
they took couples, they put themin separate rooms, they asked
the one partner a bunch of, or20 questions, and then they
asked the other partner topredict what the other one was
going to answer.
They also asked that partner toestimate how many questions they
would get right, how many theywould predict properly.
(50:28):
every day they do thisexperiment and they find that
the couples They are able topredict a little bit better than
just random, not really by thatmuch.
Chris (50:41):
hilarious.
Sarah (50:42):
they were able to predict 5 out of 20 answers.
On the random side of things,three out of 20 were answered.
So they only answered two morethan the random.
What's even more surprisingabout it is that they estimated,
and I'm, they were like, therewere decimals and shit in the
book.
I just rounded
Chris (51:02):
They're decimal.
Sarah (51:03):
fuck that.
Anyway, they estimated, this iswhat's crazy.
they estimated on average thatthey would be able to answer at
least 13 questions properly.
Like they would be able topredict 13 questions when all
they predicted properly wasfive.
So it,
Chris (51:21):
And these are the people that you're supposed to know
better than anybody else, right?
So
Sarah (51:26):
So we think that we know what they were thinking and it's
Not at all.
All we're doing is we're wastinga shit ton of mental energy and
overthinking and overstimulatingourselves trying to figure out
what other people are fuckingthinking and it's really just a
waste of our time and energy andUltimately, it's really it's
(51:47):
impossible think about yourbrain There's lots of shit going
on up there.
Like lots of shit.
It's super complicated and wethink that we're gonna go ahead
and decode it by guessing whatsomeone is thinking.
And it's just not possible.
Chris (52:02):
this would have been really valuable information when
I was dating,
Sarah (52:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is still valuable.
I'm starting to learn now likeNoah and I will be talking about
something.
I'm like, you didn't do thatbecause blah blah blah and he's
what?
I was like, yeah.
I know that's what you werethinking.
and this was like 15 years ago.
Like I'm talking now and I'mtalking about something 15 years
(52:27):
ago.
And that's what I havefunctioned of the last 15 years
thinking he thought this onething and he was like, no,
that's not you made that up.
yeah, it happens.
And you might be sitting therelistening right now thinking, I
don't do that.
I don't do that.
I'm right though.
I'm right.
I know my partner.
Start asking questions.
(52:47):
See how it goes.
Cause I guarantee you're goingto be a little surprised.
Chris (52:52):
Take the quiz.
I'm sure the quiz from thatstudy is online somewhere.
Just take it.
Sarah (52:56):
Yeah.
See how it.
comes out.
Chris (52:58):
I, know for sure, David and I don't think the same thing
ever.
Not even once we would predicteach other's answers.
Zero out of 20 times,
Sarah (53:06):
Yeah.
Chris (53:07):
accidentally we would get it right.
Sarah (53:09):
Yeah.
We would definitely do random.
We might get two.
Chris (53:13):
idea what that cat's thinking at all ever, which is
why I like keeping them around.
Sarah (53:18):
Yeah.
thought you were talking aboutlike your actual cat and I was
like, you know what your cat'sthinking?
meow.
Meow.
That's what your cat's thinking.
Maybe David's thinking that too.
I think that's what Stets isthinking.
Sometimes.
Oh, I shouldn't say that.
We'll have to cut that out.
Meow.
Meow.
Meow.
Anyway.
Chris (53:36):
yeah, the cats are thinking this bitch all the
time.
Sarah (53:39):
You fucking
Chris (53:40):
Put me down.
Sarah (53:41):
Right now Macho is thinking my bladder
Chris (53:45):
Get off the phone.
All right,
Sarah (53:47):
him out right before we started.
Okay.
Anyway, so going from thisinstead of just assuming that we
know and trying to guess what weknow, what's the better option?
What's the best way to fightFOPO?
Chris (53:57):
ask
Sarah (53:58):
Amen!
Chris (53:59):
opinion is.
don't be afraid of it.
Just ask.
Sarah (54:04):
the answer is super simple.
Inquiry.
Ask, listen.
When you ask, actually listen.
that's always a good idea.
So instead of assuming, take thetime to ask somebody else for
their perspective directly.
if you think about Gervaisinteraction with his mentor,
like we said, like there couldhave been, he could have saved
(54:26):
himself a lot of inner turmoilfor years that he over thought
that if he had just come out andasked him what he meant by that,
instead of just taking thisdefensive stance on it.
Chris (54:42):
Yeah.
I'll tell you a quick story ifyou want about my early career
Sarah (54:48):
yeah.
Chris (54:48):
when when I got my first Data manager job and I was
convinced I had tricked everyoneinto giving me this job like I
I, I don't have a, I didn't atthe time have a lot of self
worth, right?
So I, I think that I've trickedpeople into giving me this job.
I'm definitely not qualified todo it and I'll obviously never
(55:09):
be able to learn it.
the same day they hire me, thesame day I start, another girl
starts and she's got Five yearsof experience.
Sarah (55:17):
Oh, yikes.
Whoo.
Chris (55:19):
she's, she's very confident in her presentation
and, for the rest of the timethat she and I worked together,
I was consistently.
just assuming that I was second,like I'm second, I'm the second
one.
we're ranking people, we'regoing to rank her first and then
you're going to, and then you'regoing to get to me.
(55:41):
and that's cool.
I accept my position as secondbecause, obviously I tricked
people into being here and she'sreally qualified.
So cool.
and it would turn out thatwasn't the case at all.
I didn't trick people intohiring me.
I got hired because I'm a hardworker and I'm good at what I
do.
and if I would have, if I wouldhave stopped thinking like that,
(56:01):
I probably could havecontributed more.
I probably could have, insteadof just assuming that
everybody's opinion was exactlywhat my opinion was about
myself.
And, instead of just assumingthat when they asked for
volunteers, they didn't want meto volunteer, they wanted her to
volunteer, think of the thingsthat I could have potentially
done so much sooner in my careerif I just would have smartened
(56:24):
up a bit sooner.
And, eventually I got there.
Eventually, you start lookingat.
You just start believing inyourself a little bit more and,
yeah, but what a waste.
What a waste.
Sarah (56:36):
Yeah.
But it happens and we'relearning and that's why we're
doing this.
Chris (56:40):
Yes.
Don't you be like me.
Don't you be like me.
Sarah (56:44):
yeah.
Don't do those.
don't make those sillydecisions.
Be more open minded and be morewilling to ask questions.
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
And that's really how we're ableto combat FOPO and move forward
from it.
One of course, one of myfavorites, Be Curious, Not
Judgmental, which I thought wasan actual Ted Lasso quote, but
(57:04):
that was actually Walt Whitmanquote.
Chris (57:06):
even Walt
Sarah (57:07):
It wasn't?
Okay, who was it?
Chris (57:09):
I don't know.
It's misquoted.
it's not Walt,
Sarah (57:12):
I, you know what?
I fucking said it.
That's who said it.
Sarah Lee Ward.
Chris (57:16):
on my, it's on my water bottle.
It was last year's mantra.
Be curious, not judgmental.
Sarah (57:20):
And it's huge.
Chris (57:21):
choose violence.
Sarah (57:23):
Okay, we're not choosing violence.
We're gonna be curious insteadof being judgmental or
defensive, and we're gonna,
Chris (57:31):
then we're going to choose violence.
Sarah (57:33):
no, no, nope, no.
We're gonna spend less timejudging others or worrying about
their judgment to us.
just in case you're thinking, Idon't judge others, fuck you.
You're lying.
Just wanted to let you knowyou're lying.
You're lying.
Chris (57:54):
kindest hearted person anyone has ever met.
Sarah (57:56):
Yeah.
If you're saying you don't judgeothers, you're probably a
psychopath,
Chris (58:00):
you have very little self awareness.
Sarah (58:02):
You're, or you're incredibly enlightened.
I don't know, whatever, butyeah, just no, absolutely not.
And you just have to, the key isto recognize it and not let the
judgment.
Dictate what you're doing anddictate your actions.
I think that's, no, I have acouple more points.
(58:25):
I have one more, I haveactually, in closing, I have a
closing point.
FOPO is a powerful force, but itdoesn't have to control us.
By embracing curiosity andasking questions and staying
open to new perspectives, we canbreak free from the fear of,
that's a lot of F's, otherpeople's opinions.
And if all fails, if all elsefails, channel your inner Barry
(58:47):
Manilow and own your uncoolness.
Own that shit.
Own that shit.
Chris (58:54):
Story of my life.
Sarah (58:55):
And I lied.
I lied.
I have One last thing.
we're not going to, we're notgoing to choose violence.
Side note, I just, because wetouched upon it and we talked
about athletes and eliteathletes, I just had a side note
that, the public conversations,about mental health in sports.
Have really been helping destigmatize the field and I'm
really hoping that continuesbecause we've seen it.
(59:17):
We've talked about, SimoneBiles.
there are several other, I knowthere's some NFL guys like, and
these are the people that, thatwe really need to continue to
speak out.
It really helps everybodyrecognize that this isn't, it's
for real, it's here and weshould talk about it and help
each other.
Chris (59:38):
Yep.
100%.
100%.
There's, we protect our bodiesin different ways by taking care
of them.
And we should take as much time,dedication, effort and support
to take care of our minds aswell.
And the more we speak out aboutit, the more we tell each other
to go get therapy, the more weencourage each other to take a
(01:00:00):
break.
even if that is, hey, why don'tyou just take a little bit of a
deep breath there and, grab somecoffee.
let's go have a talk about thisinstead of choosing violence.
Sarah (01:00:12):
Yeah, I think that's way better.
I really like that.
Instead of choosing violence, Ithink that's the better way to
go.
But it's really nice to seethat, this is continuing to
become, a more talked aboutsubject and we just need to keep
pushing it.
Chris (01:00:27):
No, I love it.
I love that.
we talked about mindfulness as away to combat FOPO and now we're
talking about having an openmind and being curious.
And again, going back to insteadof protecting your performance
based identity, taking theopportunity to look at a
learning opportunity, right?
(01:00:48):
And do that.
you go.
That's it.
That's all I got for you.
Sarah (01:00:55):
I got distracted by the chat.
I
Chris (01:00:58):
I don't even see it.
Sarah (01:01:00):
don't know.
Chris (01:01:02):
Is Chad here?
Sarah (01:01:04):
backstage.
Oh, no.
It was just alerting me that Icould whisper to you guys
backstage via chat becausethat's yeah This is not gonna
help me or maybe there is achat.
I'm Confused.
Okay right.
Anyway, that's all I have forthe week.
Chris (01:01:20):
Thank goodness, because I have to pee.
Sarah (01:01:22):
Yeah, I think the dog might have to pee too.
I'm not sure.
Chris (01:01:27):
is how we end every episode now.
Oh, thank god, I have to pee.
Sarah (01:01:30):
but so next week we are going to finish up the assess
portion and we are going to lookat, chapter nine.
We see things as we are.
Chris (01:01:41):
Ah, yes.
Sarah (01:01:42):
social beings masqueraded as separate selves.
Chris (01:01:46):
Everybody has ADD.
Love you, bye!
Sarah (01:01:50):
that's it.
All right.
I guess we can say goodbye.
Love you.
Bye.
We got to come up with a bettersign off.
I had.
Hello, and welcome to the mental funny bone, where we aim
to create a safe andentertaining space where
listeners can explore mentalhealth topics, find solace and
enjoy laughter.
This podcast aims to destigmatize mental health
discussions and empowerindividuals to approach their
own.
being with humor and openness.
I'm Sarah.
Chris (00:27):
And I'm Christine.
We are not mental healthprofessionals.
So if you feel like you wouldbenefit from talking to a mental
health professional, there areseveral links available in our
show notes.
So please avail yourself of theavailable resources.
Sarah (00:46):
damn it, macho.
Chris (00:48):
dog.
Sarah (00:50):
had, we, that was such a great intro.
I feel like we could shut itdown right now.
That's our whole fuckingepisode.
That's it.
Chris (00:56):
That's it.
Send us a congratulations.
we finally nailed an intro,
Sarah (01:02):
Except for the dog toy in the background.
Yes.
Chris (01:05):
40 episodes into it.
Sarah (01:07):
Is this 40?
Are We 40 episodes in?
Chris (01:10):
something like 42.
Maybe I lost count.
Like at the beginning, I waslike, we did 15 episodes and it
was like a super big deal.
Now I'm like, I don't know, 44,43, how many downloads, like a
much more into the content thanthe numbers this
Sarah (01:26):
a lot.
Oh Becca's giving us signs.
She's throwing up gang signs.
Chris (01:33):
she said zero four.
We've done four episodes is whatBecca says.
no, she's, she's telling me thatit's 40 because it's, that's
what that was.
Her internet, for me, looksreally crappy, so I can't see
what she's doing.
Sarah (01:51):
Whatever she's doing, it's fucking fantastic.
Chris (01:53):
she's brilliant.
I don't know how we livedwithout her, really.
Sarah (01:58):
fuck.
All right.
So we got an intro.
Sorry about the dog.
I can't close the door becauseOwen can't take the dog out
right now.
Chris (02:05):
Oh, he has a broken hip.
Sarah (02:08):
whatever.
Chris (02:09):
I'm sorry, hip a violation.
I'll be quiet now.
Sarah (02:12):
HIPAA violation on the broken hip.
All right.
Chris (02:18):
can you give him a non squeaky toy?
Sarah (02:21):
Hold on.
He's got several of them.
I
Chris (02:23):
wrong with you?
Sarah (02:24):
Hold on.
Macho, how about you chew on abone?
Chris (02:27):
you hear her?
Sarah (02:28):
chew on a bone?
Here,
Chris (02:31):
god, dear listener, I am so sorry.
The next thing you know, she'sgonna be making Squeaking noises
herself or chewing noises,whichever.
What is that?
Sarah (02:43):
dinosaur.
Or no, it's a dragon.
This is a dragon.
Oh, and he's looking at me asthough, cause I normally squeeze
his head, and then throw him.
So you can see Macho, he'ssitting there
Chris (02:54):
Ready?
Ready.
Sarah (02:55):
throw it.
She's going to throw it.
She normally doesn't play withme from that chair.
So I'm excited.
I'm excited.
going to squeak in a second.
Chris (03:04):
I heard him run away.
Sarah (03:06):
he was so excited.
right, we're done.
Okay.
Chris (03:18):
Okay.
as
Sarah (03:19):
wish you could see him cause he's literally laying on
top of her.
Chris (03:23):
know, no humper.
Sarah (03:25):
Okay.
Chris (03:26):
Oh,
Sarah (03:28):
he's giving Humper a little lick on the ear.
A little special love.
Whoo.
Chris (03:33):
up.
Sarah (03:35):
All right.
Chris (03:36):
Okay.
Seriously.
Sarah (03:37):
Okay.
Chris (03:39):
we've.
We've gone into the new yearwith a bunch of vim and vigor,
attacking the new year, if youwill, making it our bitch,
calling the new year our humper
Sarah (03:49):
Yeah.
Chris (03:49):
to draw out an analogy, maybe, and, so far, that has
resulted in us having a zero fanmail.
today's fan mail segment is.
in that there is none.
even because I've been, busytrying to get down here and get
Olivia to school.
I haven't talked to yourparents.
(04:11):
I've been sending Olivia as adelegate.
So I haven't even heard if yourmom likes the podcast anymore.
Sarah (04:18):
I don't think anybody's listening.
I think that they've justabandoned us.
Chris (04:21):
it could be, and,
Sarah (04:23):
They were like, wow, you guys made a decision to do shit.
And so now here's double middiesfor you.
Bye.
Chris (04:30):
middies, enjoy developing a thick skin, you two, here's
zero fan mail for you, carry on,
Sarah (04:36):
That's what's happened.
Chris (04:37):
fair enough,
Sarah (04:38):
We're gonna keep going.
Fuck
Chris (04:39):
you think you can stop me, 2025, you think you can stop
me with no fan mail, fuck you.
still my bitch.
Sarah (04:47):
there are true boners out there.
There are true boners out there.
They're gonna step up.
Chris (04:51):
Kim D.
Sarah (04:52):
it.
Chris (04:54):
Kim?
Bueller?
Sarah (04:57):
Hello?
Chris (04:59):
Is it me you're looking for?
Sarah (05:02):
No, I'll be so excited we put a little bit of lino in
there just for you Noah just foryou Oh and Aaron for you and
Aaron,
Chris (05:11):
good gravy.
Alright, moving on, to the,gaster story of the week, and I
would like to tell the story ofhow the gaster girls got a pet.
Sarah, you remember, our dogJigs.
second time we got a pet, notthe first time.
The first time was a bit of aExercise and grief, I think, for
(05:34):
both of us.
Sarah (05:36):
we had those gerbils or hamsters or whatever they were
called.
And
Chris (05:39):
Those don't count.
Those
Sarah (05:41):
lot of fish, a lot of fish, they all ended up in the
toilet.
I think that's what they do withthe gerbils too.
Chris (05:47):
I'm not
Sarah (05:48):
like the size of a turd just flushing on down there.
Chris (05:51):
Those don't count.
they're not real pets.
you don't have to take a gerbilout.
Yeah, you don't have to take thefish out.
walking the fish is discouraged.
this is the very first time wegot a dog.
he was a purebred dog and he wasreally cute and he
Sarah (06:04):
He was a miniature schnauzer just like Macho.
Chris (06:07):
And then he died.
Sarah (06:09):
And then he died when he was five months old.
Chris (06:11):
I think it was that quickly too.
we got him, we cuddled him for alittle bit, and then he just
flopped over
Sarah (06:16):
yeah, we cuddled him for a month, maybe two weeks, and
then he started having theseseizures and then the doctor was
like, yeah, we could do thissurgery on him that will, that
might help him.
It might not help him.
it might just land him in painforever and it's going to cost
you a bazillion dollars.
And daddy was like.
Chris (06:36):
We'll miss you.
Sarah (06:37):
He's going to the farm.
Bye bye puppy.
I
Chris (06:42):
the only one super grief stricken by this development was
Jumbo.
so Jumbo took it pretty
Sarah (06:49):
mean, I was pretty sad.
Chris (06:51):
I don't, I barely remember.
Sarah (06:53):
don't have a fucking heart.
That is why, but go ahead.
Chris (06:56):
Obviously.
Sarah (06:58):
It's missing.
There's just a black hole
Chris (07:01):
So I will tell the story the way I remember it.
Sarah (07:04):
and I will interrupt and everything you get wrong.
Chris (07:07):
Excellent.
So I think I had to be likeeighth grade, maybe like teen
years, but before driving.
Sarah (07:16):
I was probably 11.
Chris (07:18):
yep.
This makes sense.
This makes sense.
Sarah (07:20):
I was probably 10 or 11 cause we were downtown already.
And I was still in grade school.
Chris (07:27):
I love that you call Elizabeth downtown.
Sarah (07:29):
Dantan.
We're in Dantan already.
Chris (07:31):
We were living, we were part of the Elizabeth gang at
this
Sarah (07:34):
we were in the burrow.
Chris (07:36):
Yes, we were.
and, I remember that it wasValentine's day and I was very
sad because I was a teenager.
Sarah (07:43):
Not because the dog died, but because you, a boy asked you
out and you were too dumb torealize he asked you out and you
told him you had to go dohomework.
Chris (07:53):
It was a year before.
Sarah (07:54):
Oh, okay.
Anyway, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Chris (07:57):
You shut up.
I had friends.
I had lots of friends.
Sarah (08:00):
You
Chris (08:00):
covered this already.
Sarah (08:01):
did.
Chris (08:03):
so I was sad.
because no one would ever loveme, because I was, I was a
teenager with, braces
Sarah (08:10):
Yeah.
Chris (08:10):
and, an affinity for, epic fantasy novels and
mathematics.
Sarah (08:16):
There's your roommate.
Hi, Becca's roommate.
Go ahead.
Chris (08:22):
you're so easily distracted.
Anyway, so
Sarah (08:25):
it.
Chris (08:25):
I was sad and it was valentine's day and that didn't
help me at all in any of thisand I remember your dad Brought
this puppy home from the poundout on simpson howell road.
I believe in elizabeth ifanyone's familiar with the area
and he set this little blackball of fur down and it was love
(08:47):
at first sight And I, I lovedthis dog for the next 15 minutes
and I was so excited to, that mydad had bought me a dog for
Valentine's day.
And then Sarah came downstairs
Sarah (09:05):
Yeah.
Chris (09:06):
and then I realized it wasn't just a dog for me.
It was a dog for both of us.
And then I didn't like it asmuch,
Sarah (09:11):
He was just a tiny little ball of fur and he had paws like
the size of dinner plates.
Chris (09:20):
seriously.
Sarah (09:21):
And Daddy asked at the pound, I want one that's going
to stay small.
And they were like, yeah, thisone for sure.
Chris (09:27):
sure he's going to be tiny and he had like little
spindly legs and giant paws.
giant paws.
And, Jumbo's not dumb.
he's looking at him and he'sthis isn't a small dog at all.
This is
Sarah (09:41):
out.
Chris (09:41):
what Jigs looks like, look like when he grew up, was,
Santa's little helper from theSimpsons, like the dog from the
Simpsons.
Or Satan's Little Helper.
I can't remember which is right.
Sarah (09:54):
little help, one or the other, I
Chris (09:56):
remember which is the right name for the dog.
but that is exactly what Jigslook like.
And Becca, if you could justmake a note to find me a picture
of the Simpsons dog, that wouldbe amazing.
I will not do a thing with it.
I will not put it anywhere whereanyone can see it.
But I would like to have it forreference.
Sarah (10:15):
And I think that he should be in the Guinness Book
of World Records.
Chris (10:19):
It's for the dog that lived the longest and smelled
the worst,
Sarah (10:22):
I think so.
Wait, did he smell bad or was itjust his farts that smelled, I
know his farts smelled bad ordid he smell, I don't think he,
his breath was really bad at theend there.
I mean we never, it was likenever dog dental hygiene never
existed and he was alive for 19years.
So can you like.
His teeth just rotted for
Chris (10:43):
right?
He was dead inside before hefinally laid down years.
We had this dog.
Sarah (10:50):
Mommy and daddy are still finding hair in there, and
that's not even the house theylived in when they had him.
Like they've moved since hepassed, and they're still
finding Jig's hair.
Cuz that, he was the hairiestmotherfucker ever.
You'd wake up, and there's hairin your mouth like that.
Chris (11:07):
would get scared all the time because he was just a, he
was a very nervous, anxious dog.
And when he did his defensemechanism was just to shoot hair
everywhere, like some kind of
Sarah (11:16):
a porcupine.
Chris (11:17):
Labrador porcupine mix.
Just poof and there would behair everywhere,
Sarah (11:24):
And then he got One time he was real anxious about
something.
This is when we lived withgrandma.
So this is, I was in my lateteens, and he chewed his ass.
So like on the back, like he hadlike scabs, like right above
his, I'm showing you so you cansee right?
above his tail and he was reallydoing a doozy on himself.
(11:46):
So I, and it was myresponsibility.
I had to take him up to the vetand they had to shave.
had to shave him and give himointment and shit.
We walked out of there and Iwish we had cell phones at that
point.
Cause I would have loved, it waslike a big butterfly on his ass
and went down around his
Chris (12:03):
tattoo
Sarah (12:05):
It was huge.
Like all around his tail andthen down.
Yeah.
Chris (12:09):
Like a tattoo.
Sarah (12:10):
That's what it looked like.
He looked like he had a trampstamp.
Chris (12:13):
Becca and everyone else, this dog lived through Me
learning to drive, Sarahlearning to drive me going to
college, Sarah going to college,me moving 3, 000 miles away, me
getting married, me gettingdivorced,
Sarah (12:26):
me, moving 3, 000 miles away.
Me coming back.
Chris (12:29):
Nita and Jumbo, moving, to where we live now.
this poor dog was just aroundall the time and his name, did
we say the name of the dog?
I don't think we did.
Just the Simpsons dog.
His name was Jigs.
Sarah (12:43):
Yeah, we did.
Yeah.
He was a good dog.
Chris (12:47):
Named after my dad's uncle, who I heard stories about
last night, Uncle Jigs.
Sarah (12:51):
Oh, did you?
Chris (12:52):
Yes, I did because I went to see your aunt Albina
Sarah (12:56):
Oh, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
How did that go?
Chris (12:58):
it was fun.
It was fun I talked non stop forabout an hour and 10 minutes
Sarah (13:03):
Yep.
Chris (13:04):
and then I Paused to take a sip of water and then she
talked for an hour and 10minutes
Sarah (13:09):
Oh,
Chris (13:09):
about everyone that lived in the patch when she was
growing up.
Sarah (13:14):
That's exactly what we did when we went down to the
house to say goodbye.
That's exactly, that's, yep.
Chris (13:19):
It was nice.
She told uncle Sam to shut upthree times.
Shut up, Sam,
Sarah (13:23):
nothing new.
Nothing new.
Chris (13:26):
the best.
our aunt Albina is a, is anelderly lady, who is actually
our great aunt.
Sarah (13:31):
Yeah.
Chris (13:32):
so she is our grandpap's sister and, she is 90.
86.
She's older.
I'm
Sarah (13:43):
yeah, she's definitely, I think she's 92 and Uncle Sam's
90,
Chris (13:48):
sure.
they are both, they're bothgetting up there.
but it was so nice.
It was so nice to see them andbe reminded that I had an uncle
jigs, which then in turnreminded me of the dog.
And
Sarah (13:57):
the dog.
And here we are today.
Chris (13:59):
telling stories, that is how we ended up having this as
our gastro story of the week.
And I was so touched that yourdad would think to buy us a
Valentine's date.
Because usually at that time inour lives, it was more about
listening to your dad breathethrough his nose and telling us
to turn the lights out.
Sarah (14:18):
Yeah.
Chris (14:19):
Girls, are these lights on?
Is anyone in this room?
The lights in the thermostat, Ithink is universal.
Sarah (14:27):
I never touched the thermostat.
Chris (14:29):
I don't, I didn't even know what it was.
Sarah (14:30):
Yeah, I'm not sure I knew where it was in that house.
Chris (14:33):
I think your mom did and blamed it on us.
Sarah (14:36):
guarantee it.
Chris (14:37):
This is going to be a good way for her to give us
feedback because she's going tobe like, incorrect.
Sarah (14:41):
Yeah.
Talk shit on mommy.
That's how we'll get fan mail.
Damn it.
Chris (14:48):
Absolutely.
And I bet Elaine C, up inBoston.
I bet her dad breathed throughhis nose and complained about
the lights and the, and thethermostat.
I think that's how we're justgoing to do these little mini
shout outs until someone saysthey like us.
Sarah (15:02):
someone sends us an email.
Right.
Chris (15:06):
what other good jigs stories do I have?
there was a party at our house,and I know you'll remember this
with.
And, the nice lady that I workedwith at the 5 and 10 in downtown
Elizabeth, C.
D.
C.
D.
had a daughter.
And, they brought the daughterover to the house, the little
toddler, like four, three orfour, and she's walking around,
(15:26):
and she sees jigs and jigs has,jigs had a tail that stood at
attention all the time.
Like it was pointed up over hisback.
Sarah (15:34):
He had a bone or a tail.
Chris (15:36):
he did have a boner tail.
It was pretty funny to it.
See what I did there.
and what it did was just,provide a very targeted, pink
space on his backside.
So you could clearly see hisbutthole at all times.
And, what this little girl,Doralee wasn't her name, but
(15:58):
that's what her mom told us thatshe was going to name her, took
her pointer finger and kepttrying to point at the dog's
butthole and then pointingwasn't enough.
So she kept trying to.
Get closer and closer totouching jigs his
Sarah (16:12):
Drink the bottle.
Chris (16:13):
butthole
Sarah (16:17):
Everybody can picture this.
You can picture this.
The pink target.
Chris (16:21):
right and she's just like the perfect height like to
directly touch the A fleshy skinpart of his butthole.
she's wearing like a littlechristmas dress because I think
this was a christmas party Andthat is all I can remember from
that party is I think then thatit was my group of teen friends
It was our job to make sure thatno one touched jigs's butthole.
Sarah (16:44):
I vaguely, I don't remember the butthole touching,
but I remember this party, and Icould see vividly pictures of
it, like everybody in thekitchen and everybody was
wearing a Hanes sweatshirt witha poinsettia on the front of it
that was outlined in gold puffypaint, right?
(17:04):
This is the time we're talkingabout, right?
Chris (17:06):
Yes.
Oh my god Yes, and how those gotattached to the sweatshirt?
you bought you bought somefabric and then you cut out the
poinsettia with tiny scissors
Sarah (17:18):
huh.
Chris (17:18):
And then you glued it on with Eileen's
Sarah (17:22):
Schnetta Scissors.
Mommy, you've got to tell us.
You've got to give us You Ah.
The Sheeran Schnetta.
I gotta look it up.
I gotta look it
Chris (17:30):
it was a German craft, that you would do by cutting
paper.
And the scissors, you would buya kit.
Schirrenschnitte.
Sarah (17:38):
It just blew boogers out my nose.
Chris (17:42):
this has gone off the rails.
This is no longer about our dogjigs.
Schirrenschnitte.
Yeah, it was like a craft kit.
And, it came with like tinyscissors and you would
Sarah (17:53):
do you think you spell that?
Chris (17:55):
S C H.
E R, E I N, S C H, Schnitta,Mitta.
Sarah (18:04):
Oh, I found it.
I found it.
Chris (18:05):
Stop it! is a, it's, tell me what it is.
It's the tiny scissors.
Sarah (18:13):
it is spelled S C H E R N A E N S C H I T E,
Chris (18:20):
Mita.
Sarah (18:21):
which means scissor cuts in German.
It's an art of paper cuttingdesign.
The artwork often has rotationalsymmetry within the design and
common forms includesilhouettes, valentines, and
love letters.
like she had sheer and schnittakits to your mouth, like they
were kits and I always wanted todo one.
(18:42):
And then I'd like, I tried tostart and then I didn't have the
correct motor skills that youneeded to do such a craft.
Chris (18:48):
No one did.
No one did.
It was, you traced it and thenyou had to cut out a piece of
paper that was the size of aatom,
Sarah (18:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris (18:58):
right?
You had to get in
Sarah (18:59):
straight pin, the top on the straight pin.
That's what you had to cut out.
Chris (19:02):
You needed an electron microscope to see what you were
supposed to cut out with thesescissors, but that's what you
would use to cut the poinsettiaout of the poinsettia fabric.
And the, not a small poinsettia,a really
Sarah (19:15):
Huge.
It takes up the whole front ofthis sweatshirt.
Chris (19:18):
all over that and then you would get Eileen's fabric
glue and you would soak thisbitch and Eileen's fabric Glue
and you would press that to thesweatshirt, but it had a rough
look so you had to clean it upby using gold or silver puffy
paint
Sarah (19:36):
Yeah.
Chris (19:36):
to outline it and not just outline it.
Like you had to get
Sarah (19:40):
on the inside of the
Chris (19:41):
the design.
Yeah.
Sarah (19:44):
it was very pretty and took talent to do it because I
know a lot, can you imagine medoing something like that now
with my shaky ass hands?
shits for real.
We're going to have to find oneof those pictures too.
I know that they definitelyexist.
Chris (19:55):
pictures to find the Sharon Schnitta
Sarah (19:57):
Sharon Schnitta,
Chris (20:00):
a picture of the Simpsons dog.
A picture of everyone at aChristmas party in 1988.
Sarah (20:07):
with the Sharon Schnitta shirts on, Sharon Schnitta
shirts.
Chris (20:13):
know I have pictures of it.
I
Sarah (20:14):
Oh, I definitely do.
I can see it.
I can see it.
And I can see there's one wherethey're standing in the laundry
rooms behind them.
And then there's one wherethey're turned a little bit and
it's where that, where the bigTV was supposed to be, but we
had the tiny TV in it and it hada basket that was cross stitched
on it that said Anita's kitchen.
Chris (20:31):
Yes.
Oh.
Sarah (20:33):
It's, yeah, I can't remember what my own kitchen
looks like, but I can rememberthat kitchen.
And it was carpeted.
Chris (20:40):
Oof.
Yes, it was.
I wish I could find thatpattern.
I wish Chad could find thecarpet from our kitchen in the
80s.
can you generate brown?
Kitchen carpet
Sarah (20:56):
kitchen carpet.
Kitchen carpet.
I'd like to see your kitchencarpet, please.
What?
Fuck.
Chris (21:02):
Where are you shopping?
Sarah (21:04):
Sounds great.
Chris (21:05):
Yes.
madam.
Come on
Sarah (21:06):
we're at it, if we could get the wallpaper with the
little, horse racers on it.
Chris (21:12):
They weren't horse racers.
They were English foxhounds.
God's sake.
Sarah (21:19):
Okay.
Okay.
So Jigs, so we had a dog namedJigs
Chris (21:24):
We had a dog named Jigs.
And then my mom did a bunch ofcrafts.
Amen.
Sarah (21:28):
and there was a little girl and she stuck her finger in
Jigs's butthole because it was apink target.
the synopsis of this show.
Chris (21:38):
Great.
Hashtag butthole.
Sarah (21:43):
Pink target.
That's what I'm going to call abutthole from now on.
Chris (21:47):
My pink target is swollen and irritated.
Sarah (21:49):
You're a pain in my pink target.
Chris (21:53):
Not a place for girls, not a very feminine target.
Sarah (21:57):
fuck.
Okay.
Chris (21:58):
Anyway.
All right.
I think I'm done.
can you carry us on to somemental wellness stuff so we can
mercifully stop butthole?
Sarah (22:07):
I honestly don't think that I can, I'm not sure that I
can, I'm not sure I can followany of this.
I feel like anything thathappens now is just,
Chris (22:17):
take solace.
We're keeping with the 1988theme and you're going to talk
about Barry Manilow first, I
Sarah (22:22):
yes I am.
so let's get into our book.
The first rule of mastery byMichael Gervais, who
Chris (22:30):
better than I am.
Sarah (22:31):
I had to look, I had to find a video that someone else
said his name in it.
So I would say his name, right?
And then that led to me watchinga video of him today, which was
really nice.
it led to me writing a letter tohim to ask him to come on to our
podcast.
I didn't send it because thatwould be insane.
Chris (22:52):
send it! Why wouldn't someone want to come on our
Sarah (22:54):
I also wrote a letter to Dan Harris to see if he would
like to come on our podcast.
Chris (22:58):
He definitely would! He loves us.
He just doesn't
Sarah (23:01):
Then I sent a letter to Good Morning America just to see
if we could go on their show.
Chris (23:06):
Because You
Sarah (23:07):
while I'm throwing it all out there.
Chris (23:09):
wanna go skydiving.
Sarah (23:10):
no, I've already taken that off the fucking table, off
the table.
Okay, so let's get into chapterseven and it is, not Ricky, it
is Michael Trevay and I lovehim.
It's not like I don't know whohe is.
I just want to call him Ricky.
okay.
So chapter seven, it's a BarryManilow and the spotlight
(23:32):
effect, and poor Barry Manilow.
right off the bat, he's deemedthe patron saint of uncool.
Chris (23:39):
He writes the songs that makes the whole world sing.
Sarah (23:42):
see, I don't know the Barry Manilow songs.
I'm assuming that's a BarryManilow song.
Chris (23:48):
Yes,
Sarah (23:49):
I get him and Rod Stewart confused,
Chris (23:52):
similar hair.
Sarah (23:54):
right?
but then I was like, there'sgotta be someone else that's
uncool.
And I was thinking Kenny G.
Chris (24:01):
Oh, yes,
Sarah (24:02):
I feel like he would have been like, I feel like he should
share the patron saint ofuncool.
I don't know.
I felt like that was, I don'tknow who that is.
Chris (24:11):
master of the pan flute.
Sarah (24:15):
I, I'm concerned that you know who that is.
Chris (24:21):
had a unique group of friends in high school.
Everyone that I went to highschool with gets that reference.
Everyone that hung out with me.
Sarah (24:27):
Oh, okay.
I'm, oh, okay.
Chris (24:31):
Jenny's back me up,
Sarah (24:33):
that's interesting.
What is a pan flute?
Chris (24:37):
Becca, look it up.
We're going to need a picture ofa pan flute.
if you picture like a littlesprites or a little forest
nymph, it's the little flutethey play while they're
frolicking in the forest.
That's a pan flute.
Sarah (24:50):
it's mythical.
Chris (24:52):
No, it's a real instrument.
real instrument.
Sarah (24:57):
Speaking of mythical things, Owen said that the
national, oh, there it is.
I see.
Okay.
I know what it is now.
I know what it is.
Okay.
so Owen said that the nationalanimal of fuck, I can't
remember.
I
Chris (25:12):
this is a great story.
Sarah (25:13):
but it doesn't, anyway, he said it was the unicorn.
And I was like, that's not ananimal.
Chris (25:18):
It's not real.
Sarah (25:21):
It makes no sense.
Anyway.
Okay.
So we're looking at chapterseven.
Okay.
and the Barry Manilow and thespotlight effect.
So in chapter seven, it startsout.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Chris (25:34):
when I was really into being physically fit, I joined a
website called a nerd fitness.
might remember because I wasreally excited about it when I
found it.
I was like, this is amazing.
Somebody wrote a website justfor me
Sarah (25:47):
Yeah.
Chris (25:48):
and Steve Kam is the guy who runs Nerd Fitness and he
sends me an email once a week totell me all kinds of good nerd
fitness stuff and because Inever ever unsubscribe from
anything.
Sarah (26:00):
Yeah.
Chris (26:01):
He mentioned today The debilitating effects of the
spotlight effect was the subjectof his email.
So if you think the universedoesn't align on occasion and
give you, some good pointers insome direction, like Christine,
please do something other thansit on the couch and crochet.
(26:21):
You're not going to have musclesif you do that.
Sarah (26:24):
bam, it all aligns,
Chris (26:25):
There it is.
Steve cam.
Thank you so much.
Spotlight effect.
Now you should tell the peoplewhat that is.
Sarah (26:32):
so the spotlight effect, let's start out with in chapter
seven starts out with a studythat was done on a college
campus and they had, X number ofstudents that had to wear a
t-shirt that had Barry Manolo'sface on it, and they had to go
into a classroom and before theywent into the classroom, they
had to predict how many peoplewould be able to remember that
(26:54):
they had that awful BarryManalow shirt on.
Chris (26:58):
Aw.
Sarah (26:58):
So after they went in and they did what, blah, blah, blah,
they asked the people who saw.
These students with the BarryManilow shirts to recall what
they were wearing.
the students that had the BarryManilow shirts on, that would be
embarrassed to have the BarryManilow shirts on, said that at
least 50 percent of the peoplethat saw them would remember
(27:19):
that.
Actually, less than 25 percentof the people that saw them
remembered that they had a BarryManilow t shirt on.
is essentially the spotlighteffect.
It's, but, I
Chris (27:34):
it's a vomit noise.
What?
Sarah (27:36):
skipped ahead forgot what I was saying.
Okay.
Chris (27:41):
you go back to it.
Just go back to it.
You were doing great.
Spotlight effect.
I was getting distracted becauseI think Becca was trying to tell
her roommate that she waspregnant.
Sarah (27:51):
a lot.
Woo mama.
All right.
at least we know where we needto cut out.
Okay.
Becca, mark it down.
We're cutting out a lot of this.
Okay.
Chris (27:58):
Becca went,
Sarah (28:01):
it.
Chris (28:04):
Sorry, I was 100 percent paying attention to what you
were saying.
Sarah (28:07):
So the spotlight effect.
spotlight effect is apsychological phenomenon where,
and I'm so excited that I saidthat properly, I think, where we
overestimate how much peoplenotice or remember of what we're
doing.
So this is pretty much, thatnobody gives a shit about you.
We're always thinking thatpeople are paying attention to
us.
We think that all eyes are onus, but honestly, Everybody's
(28:30):
too worried about themselves andcaught up in their own Barry
Manilow crazy moments to evennotice that we've got a Barry
Manilow t shirt on
Chris (28:40):
great.
Sarah (28:41):
Gervais talks about what causes the spotlight effect And
he talks about egocentric bias.
I'm saying lots of big words
Chris (28:51):
I love it.
Sarah (28:52):
about it.
It's very excited about it.
So this is basically where welive in the center of our own
world.
It's just how we're wiredbecause we're normal ass human
beings.
The thing I like about this isit doesn't mean that we're
arrogant or self absorbedbecause I've been very much
aware that I have lived inmyself centered, focused world
(29:15):
for a while now.
And it made me feel bad, but nowI feel better because I'm not
arrogant or self absorbed.
Chris (29:21):
You're just person.
You're just a person Constantlyoverestimating how much people
care about you
Sarah (29:27):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's the amazing thing ofall of this is the gap in how
much we think people arethinking about us and how much
they're really not thinkingabout us, regardless of the
situation, whether it's apositive and negative.
Or a ridiculously embarrassingsituation that you, Christine,
would find yourself in.
Chris (29:48):
100 100 this Again, This is the best part about having
Jumbo as my dad, because Ilearned early on that no one
really cares what's happening tome, like, when I am walking
through the airport and I trip alittle bit and spill coffee all
down the front of my whiteshirt, I have a little bit of
(30:10):
perspective in that, nobodycares that just happened to me.
Somebody saw and they were like,
Sarah (30:14):
Yeah.
And that's the other thing.
Like somebody saw, somebodynoticed, like even in the Barry
Manilow things, like of those 25percent that remembered that
they saw Barry Manilow t shirts.
How long did they remember that?
It's certainly not a lifetime.
And there are certainly 20 yearsdown the road, not saying, Hey,
(30:35):
remember that dick that walkedinto class with a Barry Manilow
shirt?
no, nobody, no, it doesn'tmatter
Chris (30:41):
unless it was Barry Manilow.
Sarah (30:43):
where that might be.
It might be.
Chris (30:46):
Then you would remember.
So again, we're back to thejumbo rule.
Sarah (30:50):
Yeah.
I feel like that's, it'severything.
It truly is everything, andthat's what I wanted to write,
in my Michael Gervais requestfor interview about how my dad
is the one who really came upwith FOPO.
Chris (31:04):
think that's
Sarah (31:04):
And then I felt that we should have both of them on.
I think that's what we shoulddo.
And we should have nobody givesa shit about you and FOPO man.
Chris (31:14):
Like what would they do?
Would they just chatter awayabout how much they both like
Bruce Springsteen?
Sarah (31:19):
Yeah.
They would just chat.
They would, they could, they'relike superheroes.
We would get them littlecostumes, man.
And no one gives a shit.
There you go.
Anyway.
So I, created that.
Chris (31:33):
I don't think you're making a big, strong case for
Michael Jervais to join our veryserious and helpful podcast,
Sarah (31:41):
I don't know.
He seems fun.
He seems like he would dig it.
I feel like Dan Harris would.
Chris (31:46):
Please wear this leotard
Sarah (31:49):
okay.
That might be going too far.
Okay.
We won't do it.
We won't do costumes.
Chris (31:53):
Fobo man.
Wait,
Sarah (31:56):
It sounds scary.
All right.
Anyway.
Okay.
Chris (31:59):
wait.
I have another question.
what's the title of, the secondpart of the book?
Cause we wrapped up part
Sarah (32:05):
Oh,
Chris (32:06):
part one was called something and I can't remember
what it was called, but I alsocan't remember what part two is
called.
Sarah (32:11):
I want to say part 1 was something about identifying.
let me see.
Unmask.
So you unmask, and that's whatyou covered already.
Now, we are on to the assessingpart.
unmask, assess, redefine.
So it's I know I've said itbefore, catch, change, catch,
(32:32):
Shit.
Chris (32:32):
Catch shit.
Sarah (32:34):
there's a C in the middle there that I can't remember.
Okay.
Nevermind.
Cut that out too.
Okay.
moving on
Chris (32:43):
So part two is assess.
Sarah (32:45):
assess right now we are assessing.
So
Chris (32:48):
to have the base of the jumbo rule in order for us to
assess.
Okay.
Sarah (32:53):
Exactly.
Absolutely.
So the next thing he talks aboutis false consensus effect, which
makes a lot of sense.
Once you start reading about it,and this is our tendency to,
overestimate how much otherpeople share our beliefs and our
habits and our preferences.
and this is reinforced bysomething called selective
(33:14):
exposure.
this is, something that I havewrestled with for, I'm guessing,
fucking macho, I'm guessing mywhole life, but I really only
noticed it like a few years ago,which is embarrassing, but not
everybody agrees with me.
Chris (33:32):
Weird.
Sarah (33:33):
I don't, why would, I'm right, obviously, so I don't
understand why you want to argueor disagree with what I have to
say.
Chris (33:41):
How can you possibly believe that dumb shit you
believe?
Sarah (33:44):
So this is something I'm working on.
I have been working on this.
but yeah, I'm gonna kill thefucking dog.
Chris (33:50):
Don't do that.
so this one is funny for mebecause since I, since last year
and all of my ADHD stuff and I'mlike, oh, look at me.
I'm such a special littlesnowflake because I have ADHD.
Now everyone I meet has ADHD
Sarah (34:05):
Yeah, of
Chris (34:07):
I just project that on to other people.
I'm like, look at you.
I know what's wrong with you.
You have the same thing I have.
We're the same.
sometimes I'm right.
Sarah (34:18):
it's it seems right.
Yeah, it seems that you wouldbe.
I feel like that's just,
Chris (34:21):
Just people.
Sarah (34:22):
odds.
don't know.
Chris (34:26):
Just the people I like to hang out with.
Sarah (34:28):
you're just, you're pulling in the people that,
yeah, that you feel are justlike you.
there you have it.
So all of this psychological funshit that I've spit at you, like
all these fun terms.
I was super excited to have funterms and like actually say
things that exist and say thingslike psychological phenomenon.
(34:49):
Go ahead, Christine.
Chris (34:51):
I'm not gonna let you do it.
Pretend like you don't know bigwords.
Sarah (34:57):
I do know big words, but I normally fuck them up and I
won't say them because I feellike, I don't deserve to say
them because I'm dumb.
I am not dumb, which is why I'mbringing it all in this week
because I'm not fucking dumb.
I'm fucking smart.
And I'm going to show you guyshow fucking smart I am by saying
psychological phenomenon overand over again.
The next thing I'm going to talkabout is a psychological concept
(35:20):
though, and it.
is, I like, I'm getting the headshake too.
The psychological concept ofanchoring and adjustment.
So this is all all this shitwe've talked about is kind of
part of this.
a concept that when we'reintroduced to something new, the
first thing that we'reintroduced to about that, like
the first thing we learn aboutit is what we grab onto.
(35:43):
And we make that our anchor andanchors are hard to move.
But
Chris (35:49):
they're heavy.
Sarah (35:50):
yeah, if we want to keep moving on, we need to make
adjustments to the anchor.
it's hard to do that.
It's really hard to do that.
I know I do that and that's whatthat's.
Something that we've beenlearning and something that has
been new for me is to be able tosay, Oh, maybe that's not exact.
Oh, all I got to pick up myanchor a little bit dragging
(36:13):
along Maybe you think somethingelse?
Okay So anyway, I thought thatwas a pretty, pretty decent, a
pretty fun concept.
Chris (36:23):
So it's about having a little bit more of an open mind.
So it pulling it back to somemindfulness is the ability to
understand and recognize thatmaybe I've just developed an
anchor here and this isn't thefinal end all and be all to
everything that is true.
So maybe I open my mind up,maybe I take my little mindful
(36:45):
pause, open my mind up and thinksomething else.
Sarah (36:48):
Lift my anchor a little bit.
it along, if you will.
Sorry, I had a cough.
dog is, yeah, the dog is thedog.
All right, so towards the end ofchapter 7, he talks about what
we do with the moments when wereally are in the spotlight.
the big thing that I thoughtabout was a job interview.
Chris (37:11):
Oh,
Sarah (37:12):
So do we treat these as, it's just another moment or are
we treating it as the bigmoment?
and pretty much he says thatboth approaches are correct And
I think it just really dependson you as an individual and what
is gonna work out for you bestThe big part of this is that you
need to make a decision of whichway you're gonna handle it and
(37:32):
stick with it And mentallyprepare for that situation.
So if you're going to do, you'regoing into the interview and
you're just treating it like asany other day, then you're
you're chill about it.
You're not doing like a ton ofprep.
You're just, you're going inlax.
And when you go in there, youneed to make sure that you
remember that's the decisionthat you made.
(37:53):
And you need to keep that mentalcoolness state to you.
you.
can't go in there and twoseconds before the interview
starts, go,
Chris (38:01):
fuck.
Sarah (38:02):
what if this happened?
what
Chris (38:03):
Oh my god, I didn't prepare.
I didn't prepare.
This is the most important thingthat ever happened to me and I
haven't prepared.
Sarah (38:09):
Yeah.
You needed to make that decisiona little bit earlier.
So if you treat the interviewlike the big moment, which.
how I do interviews and obsessabout it.
Maybe obsessing isn't the bestthing, but I practice, I do the
mirror practice.
I do all of that.
I have all the questions.
Basically what you do is ifyou're treating it as the big
(38:30):
moment, you're practicing thosestressful situations.
You're putting yourself in thosesituations to make sure when
they do come about that you'reable to handle them, and show
everybody how bad ass you are.
Chris (38:44):
You, you, I completely lost a thought.
I was like, yeah, you justprepare like you're going to
present.
Sarah (38:51):
You just prepare like, you're gonna prepare.
You just prepare.
Chris (38:55):
fuck, what am I?
I'm John Madden.
Football is football.
And it's good because it'sfootball.
Red Favre.
Nobody knows who John Madden is.
Sarah (39:05):
I do.
don't people know who JohnMadden is?
Chris (39:10):
He's old,
Sarah (39:12):
Yeah, he's dead, isn't he?
Chris (39:13):
dead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's why he's not on TVanymore.
Sarah (39:16):
Yeah, okay.
Anyway.
Chris (39:18):
Anyway, yes, I love this concept of choosing, choosing a
way to approach it and thenpreparing appropriately.
If you think this is going to bea stressful situation, and it's
also about knowing yourself,right?
if I know that I have to feelnervous or I'm not going to feel
okay going into a meeting, thenI got to prepare like it's an
(39:39):
important thing.
Sarah (39:40):
Yeah.
Chris (39:41):
And I have to put myself in those nervous, stressful
situations every once in awhile, or I lose focus and end
up shaky voiced in a meeting.
Sarah (39:50):
And I, the, the talk I was listening to today that
Michael Gervais did, hementioned something about this,
like going into presentationsand public speaking and things
of that nature where you're, oran interview, anything really
where you're nervous and youhave that like anxiety built up.
It's people who are living aPurpose driven life versus the
(40:15):
performance driven life.
That feeling is because whatyou're doing that purpose, that
the outcome of what you're doingis going to have something, an
outcome.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Effects.
Yeah.
It has an impact on the purposethat you have committed to.
So that's where your nervousnessis coming from.
(40:37):
Whereas if you're a performancebased, you're going into it
like, fuck, I'm going to fuck ifI fuck up, if I don't do it
exactly right, this is whatpeople are going to think.
So there's the difference.
so I thought that was prettycool.
Chris (40:52):
it really is.
Cause I'll give you a story fromtoday.
Like I got a phone call lastnight.
Hey, these clients are upset.
can you get on the phone withthem?
Yeah, sure.
It's what I do.
It's my job.
Yes.
Obviously I can get on the phonewith them.
And then it comes time to get onthe phone with them.
And I'm like, this is the firsttime this client has seen you in
action in front of, this is thefirst time that this group of
(41:16):
people has seen you in action infront of a client.
And then I got in my own headand had a shaky voice first
three minutes until I went,Christine,
Sarah (41:30):
Christine.
Chris (41:31):
don't be a dick.
You have everything you need tomake this meeting successful
right in front of you.
Stop it.
And then he went,
Sarah (41:41):
fine.
Chris (41:45):
meeting turned out great.
Client
Sarah (41:47):
you go.
Congratulations.
Chris (41:50):
but it was being able to recognize that, You have
everything that you need to do.
Like you, you prepared you, youhave bullet points to talk
about.
You are not going to be caughtwith your pants down.
And even if you are caught withyour pants down,
Sarah (42:03):
You got a big dick.
Chris (42:05):
I don't have
Sarah (42:06):
don't know.
I feel like that's, I feel likethat's where we were going.
It was, caught with your pantsdown, it's totally fine because
you got a big dick
Chris (42:14):
it wasn't.
It was that, it was simply thatI don't need the validation of,
of being unprepared or ofhaving, yeah, I don't need the
validation of having a big dick.
I am fine and enough, in thesesituations and, if I have to
apologize and start over then,so what?
(42:34):
Who gives a shit?
Nobody cares.
Nobody cares.
Sarah (42:37):
Nobody cares.
Chris (42:39):
the client cares because they're losing millions of
dollars every day, but
Sarah (42:42):
but there's a whole difference there.
It's not, yeah, when you'resaying like, nobody gives a shit
again, it goes back to the.
Performance versus the purpose.
we care about the purpose.
Of course, we care about thepurpose.
Okay, let's move on to chaptereight.
You ready?
Chris (42:59):
I'm ready.
What is it?
Sarah (43:00):
eight.
Hi, Macho.
Do you want to just sit here andlet me scratch you so you'll
stop barking?
How about that?
Okay.
That was my Macho voice.
I hate my kid for having a hipproblem now, so he can't take
the Fucking dog out.
Stupid crutches.
Okay.
anyway, so now on to
Chris (43:18):
so much to cut out so much
Sarah (43:21):
It's
Chris (43:21):
chapter 8 carry on
Sarah (43:23):
Chapter eight.
We talk about the birth of Fopo.
So we talk about where, rightout the chicken.
wonder how big Fopo was.
Chris (43:31):
Stop it PZ out of me.
Let's just throw them all outthere.
Sarah (43:35):
so we talk about the birth of Fopo and discuss the
question, do we really know whatsomeone else is thinking?
So the birth of Fopo, What youhad something to say?
Chris (43:46):
I like that.
I like this I read it and Iforgot that I read it and now
that you said it I remember andI liked it
Sarah (43:52):
Oh, okay.
Good.
Yeah.
I like this too.
It's, Gervais talks about whereFOPO came from and his
background.
he mentioned at the beginning,it was at the, it started with
his, psychology studies, but onthe call or on the, Interview I
watched today.
He had mentioned that FOPO issomething that he started
recognizing like his teensanyway
Chris (44:20):
FOPO in your teens.
Got it
Sarah (44:21):
Okay, so he starts out in his studies of psychology and at
this time there was still thatmajor stigma that Psychology was
more of a reactive tool forfixing things that are broken
and whatever you're fixing thatneeds to be done behind closed
doors.
It's not discussed anywhereelse.
It wasn't considered psychologywasn't considered to be a
(44:45):
proactive practice where youinvest in your own well being
and where you can use it toimprove your performance.
Gervais says, another, FightClub reference.
It's like Fight Club.
The first rule of psychology iswe don't talk about psychology.
Chris (45:04):
Ugh, this is everything this podcast is against.
Sarah (45:08):
yes, and he didn't like that.
He was like, no, I don't thinkthat's how it should be.
And he wondered from the verybeginning of his studies in
psychology, like what couldthings be like if we started
talking about it, if wechallenged that, if we drew a
little bit outside the lines,and he wanted to change that
conversation.
But He had an internal dilemmaif he did that, what was that
(45:35):
going to say about him?
What were his peers going tothink?
How would he be judged on aprofessional level?
And that kind of Was in the backof his head constantly and
probably slowed down hisprogress to getting where he did
eventually get to and Upongraduation, he decided to go
into, sports psychology anddecided to go into the extreme
(45:59):
sports because he wanted to,draw outside the lines and kind
of change things around andextreme sports at that time.
that's what was happening in
Chris (46:07):
he's a rebel.
He's a rebel and he never everdoes what he should.
Sarah (46:12):
Wow.
Did you just make that up?
What song is that?
Chris (46:15):
No, it's from the fifties.
Sarah (46:16):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
So yeah.
So extreme sports was rewritingthe rules on regular sports.
So he wanted to do that inpsychology.
So that's what he got into.
So this is where he, Startsworking with M.
A.
M.
A fighters gonna kill thefucking dog really?
(46:38):
Okay, so he starts working withan MMA fighter a well known MMA
fighter and He has theopportunity to work with this
guy prepare for like big fightAnd there's a lot of psychology
behind that if you think aboutit, and a lot of sports It's all
about psychology.
especially when you get on thatelite level, it's really, your
(47:00):
body becomes just the extensionof what you can do in your mind.
So that's what he was all aboutand working with this guy and,
coming out for that fight, wason the coaching staff.
when they come out for the MMAfight, they're walking out and
they have the coaches behindthem and everything.
He was, he was a part of that.
And after the fight, everythingwent awesome.
(47:22):
He won the fight.
He was all excited about it.
He was super excited abouteverything that he was learning
about psychology and, sports andthe things he was going to be
able to do.
And after that fight, he got acall from his mentor and his
mentors said, Hey, what are youdoing?
What are you doing?
Walking behind an MMA fighter ontelevision.
(47:43):
And he was like, what, like allthe excitement that he had.
He was.
He lost it.
He was done.
was gone.
He called his wife, who I havenow, I now love.
Her name is Lisa.
And he called his wife and hetold her, and she was like, you
know what?
You should tell him, fuck off,
Chris (48:03):
Suck a bag of dicks.
Sarah (48:04):
suck a bag of dicks mentor.
thank goodness for all of us,cause what would we do without
the concept of FOPO?
He continued to go on his wayand, wrote off his mentor and
continued to do what he wasdoing.
And working with the elitesports and talking about things,
(48:24):
making it, helping it D stick,you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
talking about mental health andbringing it out there, along the
way, he's still internallystruggled with, what his mentor
really meant because he justtook it for what he thought it
was.
And that's what he thought hismentor was saying.
No, you need to get back in yourlane.
(48:44):
You need to get back behind theclosed door.
And he struggled with that forquite some time.
And he eventually got theopportunity to talk to his
mentor.
He had come to one of his talksand when he got the opportunity
to ask him, what did you mean bythat?
He decided he didn't care he wasgoing to continue on with what
he was doing.
(49:05):
And the major lesson he took outof that for himself was had.
Had I just asked at that time, Iprobably wouldn't have lost that
friendship.
And that would have been arelationship that could have
been an awesome professionalrelationship, whatever.
But in addition to that, I couldhave learned something more
(49:26):
about myself.
So instead of questioning, hejust went on and said, this is,
I know exactly what he'sthinking.
So this leads us into how do weknow what people are thinking?
And are we really able to.
Decipher what people arethinking.
Chris (49:40):
I love this.
Sarah (49:42):
So this, if you think about it, I mean on a daily
basis we're constantly trying tofigure out what people are
thinking and we think that we'rereally good at it.
I think I'm really good at it.
Like I could walk away and belike that's what a bitch.
Meanwhile, she's not a bitch atall and I'm just making that up.
Yeah.
Anyway, so we come to anotherstudy that was done with
(50:05):
couples.
they took couples, they put themin separate rooms, they asked
the one partner a bunch of, or20 questions, and then they
asked the other partner topredict what the other one was
going to answer.
They also asked that partner toestimate how many questions they
would get right, how many theywould predict properly.
(50:28):
every day they do thisexperiment and they find that
the couples They are able topredict a little bit better than
just random, not really by thatmuch.
Chris (50:41):
hilarious.
Sarah (50:42):
they were able to predict 5 out of 20 answers.
On the random side of things,three out of 20 were answered.
So they only answered two morethan the random.
What's even more surprisingabout it is that they estimated,
and I'm, they were like, therewere decimals and shit in the
book.
I just rounded
Chris (51:02):
They're decimal.
Sarah (51:03):
fuck that.
Anyway, they estimated, this iswhat's crazy.
they estimated on average thatthey would be able to answer at
least 13 questions properly.
Like they would be able topredict 13 questions when all
they predicted properly wasfive.
So it,
Chris (51:21):
And these are the people that you're supposed to know
better than anybody else, right?
So
Sarah (51:26):
So we think that we know what they were thinking and it's
Not at all.
All we're doing is we're wastinga shit ton of mental energy and
overthinking and overstimulatingourselves trying to figure out
what other people are fuckingthinking and it's really just a
waste of our time and energy andUltimately, it's really it's
(51:47):
impossible think about yourbrain There's lots of shit going
on up there.
Like lots of shit.
It's super complicated and wethink that we're gonna go ahead
and decode it by guessing whatsomeone is thinking.
And it's just not possible.
Chris (52:02):
this would have been really valuable information when
I was dating,
Sarah (52:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is still valuable.
I'm starting to learn now likeNoah and I will be talking about
something.
I'm like, you didn't do thatbecause blah blah blah and he's
what?
I was like, yeah.
I know that's what you werethinking.
and this was like 15 years ago.
Like I'm talking now and I'mtalking about something 15 years
(52:27):
ago.
And that's what I havefunctioned of the last 15 years
thinking he thought this onething and he was like, no,
that's not you made that up.
yeah, it happens.
And you might be sitting therelistening right now thinking, I
don't do that.
I don't do that.
I'm right though.
I'm right.
I know my partner.
Start asking questions.
(52:47):
See how it goes.
Cause I guarantee you're goingto be a little surprised.
Chris (52:52):
Take the quiz.
I'm sure the quiz from thatstudy is online somewhere.
Just take it.
Sarah (52:56):
Yeah.
See how it.
comes out.
Chris (52:58):
I, know for sure, David and I don't think the same thing
ever.
Not even once we would predicteach other's answers.
Zero out of 20 times,
Sarah (53:06):
Yeah.
Chris (53:07):
accidentally we would get it right.
Sarah (53:09):
Yeah.
We would definitely do random.
We might get two.
Chris (53:13):
idea what that cat's thinking at all ever, which is
why I like keeping them around.
Sarah (53:18):
Yeah.
thought you were talking aboutlike your actual cat and I was
like, you know what your cat'sthinking?
meow.
Meow.
That's what your cat's thinking.
Maybe David's thinking that too.
I think that's what Stets isthinking.
Sometimes.
Oh, I shouldn't say that.
We'll have to cut that out.
Meow.
Meow.
Meow.
Anyway.
Chris (53:36):
yeah, the cats are thinking this bitch all the
time.
Sarah (53:39):
You fucking
Chris (53:40):
Put me down.
Sarah (53:41):
Right now Macho is thinking my bladder
Chris (53:45):
Get off the phone.
All right,
Sarah (53:47):
him out right before we started.
Okay.
Anyway, so going from thisinstead of just assuming that we
know and trying to guess what weknow, what's the better option?
What's the best way to fightFOPO?
Chris (53:57):
ask
Sarah (53:58):
Amen!
Chris (53:59):
opinion is.
don't be afraid of it.
Just ask.
Sarah (54:04):
the answer is super simple.
Inquiry.
Ask, listen.
When you ask, actually listen.
that's always a good idea.
So instead of assuming, take thetime to ask somebody else for
their perspective directly.
if you think about Gervaisinteraction with his mentor,
like we said, like there couldhave been, he could have saved
(54:26):
himself a lot of inner turmoilfor years that he over thought
that if he had just come out andasked him what he meant by that,
instead of just taking thisdefensive stance on it.
Chris (54:42):
Yeah.
I'll tell you a quick story ifyou want about my early career
Sarah (54:48):
yeah.
Chris (54:48):
when when I got my first Data manager job and I was
convinced I had tricked everyoneinto giving me this job like I
I, I don't have a, I didn't atthe time have a lot of self
worth, right?
So I, I think that I've trickedpeople into giving me this job.
I'm definitely not qualified todo it and I'll obviously never
(55:09):
be able to learn it.
the same day they hire me, thesame day I start, another girl
starts and she's got Five yearsof experience.
Sarah (55:17):
Oh, yikes.
Whoo.
Chris (55:19):
she's, she's very confident in her presentation
and, for the rest of the timethat she and I worked together,
I was consistently.
just assuming that I was second,like I'm second, I'm the second
one.
we're ranking people, we'regoing to rank her first and then
you're going to, and then you'regoing to get to me.
(55:41):
and that's cool.
I accept my position as secondbecause, obviously I tricked
people into being here and she'sreally qualified.
So cool.
and it would turn out thatwasn't the case at all.
I didn't trick people intohiring me.
I got hired because I'm a hardworker and I'm good at what I
do.
and if I would have, if I wouldhave stopped thinking like that,
(56:01):
I probably could havecontributed more.
I probably could have, insteadof just assuming that
everybody's opinion was exactlywhat my opinion was about
myself.
And, instead of just assumingthat when they asked for
volunteers, they didn't want meto volunteer, they wanted her to
volunteer, think of the thingsthat I could have potentially
done so much sooner in my careerif I just would have smartened
(56:24):
up a bit sooner.
And, eventually I got there.
Eventually, you start lookingat.
You just start believing inyourself a little bit more and,
yeah, but what a waste.
What a waste.
Sarah (56:36):
Yeah.
But it happens and we'relearning and that's why we're
doing this.
Chris (56:40):
Yes.
Don't you be like me.
Don't you be like me.
Sarah (56:44):
yeah.
Don't do those.
don't make those sillydecisions.
Be more open minded and be morewilling to ask questions.
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
And that's really how we're ableto combat FOPO and move forward
from it.
One of course, one of myfavorites, Be Curious, Not
Judgmental, which I thought wasan actual Ted Lasso quote, but
(57:04):
that was actually Walt Whitmanquote.
Chris (57:06):
even Walt
Sarah (57:07):
It wasn't?
Okay, who was it?
Chris (57:09):
I don't know.
It's misquoted.
it's not Walt,
Sarah (57:12):
I, you know what?
I fucking said it.
That's who said it.
Sarah Lee Ward.
Chris (57:16):
on my, it's on my water bottle.
It was last year's mantra.
Be curious, not judgmental.
Sarah (57:20):
And it's huge.
Chris (57:21):
choose violence.
Sarah (57:23):
Okay, we're not choosing violence.
We're gonna be curious insteadof being judgmental or
defensive, and we're gonna,
Chris (57:31):
then we're going to choose violence.
Sarah (57:33):
no, no, nope, no.
We're gonna spend less timejudging others or worrying about
their judgment to us.
just in case you're thinking, Idon't judge others, fuck you.
You're lying.
Just wanted to let you knowyou're lying.
You're lying.
Chris (57:54):
kindest hearted person anyone has ever met.
Sarah (57:56):
Yeah.
If you're saying you don't judgeothers, you're probably a
psychopath,
Chris (58:00):
you have very little self awareness.
Sarah (58:02):
You're, or you're incredibly enlightened.
I don't know, whatever, butyeah, just no, absolutely not.
And you just have to, the key isto recognize it and not let the
judgment.
Dictate what you're doing anddictate your actions.
I think that's, no, I have acouple more points.
(58:25):
I have one more, I haveactually, in closing, I have a
closing point.
FOPO is a powerful force, but itdoesn't have to control us.
By embracing curiosity andasking questions and staying
open to new perspectives, we canbreak free from the fear of,
that's a lot of F's, otherpeople's opinions.
And if all fails, if all elsefails, channel your inner Barry
(58:47):
Manilow and own your uncoolness.
Own that shit.
Own that shit.
Chris (58:54):
Story of my life.
Sarah (58:55):
And I lied.
I lied.
I have One last thing.
we're not going to, we're notgoing to choose violence.
Side note, I just, because wetouched upon it and we talked
about athletes and eliteathletes, I just had a side note
that, the public conversations,about mental health in sports.
Have really been helping destigmatize the field and I'm
really hoping that continuesbecause we've seen it.
(59:17):
We've talked about, SimoneBiles.
there are several other, I knowthere's some NFL guys like, and
these are the people that, thatwe really need to continue to
speak out.
It really helps everybodyrecognize that this isn't, it's
for real, it's here and weshould talk about it and help
each other.
Chris (59:38):
Yep.
100%.
100%.
There's, we protect our bodiesin different ways by taking care
of them.
And we should take as much time,dedication, effort and support
to take care of our minds aswell.
And the more we speak out aboutit, the more we tell each other
to go get therapy, the more weencourage each other to take a
(01:00:00):
break.
even if that is, hey, why don'tyou just take a little bit of a
deep breath there and, grab somecoffee.
let's go have a talk about thisinstead of choosing violence.
Sarah (01:00:12):
Yeah, I think that's way better.
I really like that.
Instead of choosing violence, Ithink that's the better way to
go.
But it's really nice to seethat, this is continuing to
become, a more talked aboutsubject and we just need to keep
pushing it.
Chris (01:00:27):
No, I love it.
I love that.
we talked about mindfulness as away to combat FOPO and now we're
talking about having an openmind and being curious.
And again, going back to insteadof protecting your performance
based identity, taking theopportunity to look at a
learning opportunity, right?
(01:00:48):
And do that.
you go.
That's it.
That's all I got for you.
Sarah (01:00:55):
I got distracted by the chat.
I
Chris (01:00:58):
I don't even see it.
Sarah (01:01:00):
don't know.
Chris (01:01:02):
Is Chad here?
Sarah (01:01:04):
backstage.
Oh, no.
It was just alerting me that Icould whisper to you guys
backstage via chat becausethat's yeah This is not gonna
help me or maybe there is achat.
I'm Confused.
Okay right.
Anyway, that's all I have forthe week.
Chris (01:01:20):
Thank goodness, because I have to pee.
Sarah (01:01:22):
Yeah, I think the dog might have to pee too.
I'm not sure.
Chris (01:01:27):
is how we end every episode now.
Oh, thank god, I have to pee.
Sarah (01:01:30):
but so next week we are going to finish up the assess
portion and we are going to lookat, chapter nine.
We see things as we are.
Chris (01:01:41):
Ah, yes.
Sarah (01:01:42):
social beings masqueraded as separate selves.
Chris (01:01:46):
Everybody has ADD.
Love you, bye!
Sarah (01:01:50):
that's it.
All right.
I guess we can say goodbye.
Love you.
Bye.
We got to come up with a bettersign off.
I had.
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