June 16, 2025 • 51 mins
What happens when you stop forcing a business model that doesn’t fit—and start building one that actually reflects who you are?
In this bold and honest conversation, Richelle Gamlam shares her journey from struggling entrepreneur to founder of Move Abroad Coach, a thriving international coaching business helping people design lives they actually want to live—abroad.
We dive into:
- How she grew from $4K a year to a million by ditching the standard "webinar-to-course" formula
- The moment she realised her worst-case scenario was already happening—so why not bet on something better?
- The personal fears she faced relocating her family to Spain after five years in Tbilisi Georgia
- How she now helps others create personalised relocation plans that address mindset and logistics
- The behind-the-scenes of living internationally in China, Vietnam, Tanzania, and beyond
- Why bootcamps, not blueprints, helped her clients finally move
Richelle’s story is a masterclass in alignment, courage, and creating freedom on your own terms. Whether you’re dreaming of living abroad or ready to rewrite the rules in your business or life—this episode is your permission slip.
Join Richelle's next Escape Plan Bootcamp HERE
Instagram: @MoveAbroadCoach
Follow me on Instagram: @merilyn
Website: merilyn.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hello there, welcome to my show.
This is where I love to chatwith people who are out there
leading their own worlds, andtoday I'm chatting with Rochelle
Gamlin.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I climbed into bed and I cried for I don't know
hours.
My heart was broken because Iwas like this isn't working,
like I have to be done.
You keep saying that you wantto, you want to get out of the
kiddie pool and go swim with thebig kids.
Well, take your hand off thebeeping edge of the pool and go
swim.
I made in that month profitwhat I made the entire year
(00:36):
before.
So if you find the right model,it can take off.
And my biggest fears was wakingup at eight years old and
realizing I never actually livedmy life for and realizing I
never actually lived my life forme.
I never actually did anythingthat I wanted to do.
I never moved abroad, I neverbuilt a business.
I just lived my whole life onautopilot, doing everything that
I should do rather than what Iwanted.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Welcome back to the show Rochelle.
This is actually the third timewe have chatted on my podcast.
We originally met online, Ithink, just as COVID started out
, and you had a slightlydifferent business than you have
now.
So tell us in your words whatis it that you actually do?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I run Move Abroad Coach so I help people create
their dream lives overseas andreally step into that life of
freedom and build a life that'struly aligned to you.
So not only do we help with thelogistics in terms of the, you
know, the visas and how to getsettled and find an apartment
and downsize, we also work a loton the mindset, the fears of,
like, what if I move abroad andI I hate it?
(01:46):
You know, what if it's not theright country for me?
What if I blow my life up andthen I can't get it back?
Um, you know, we help.
We help families and couples,people with pets, like really,
you know, disentangle themselvesfrom this life that they felt
like they should have to a lifethat they actually want.
So there's a lot of yeah, moveabroad strategy, but also life
(02:06):
and business coaching allcombined into one Um, but it's.
It's been incredible and this isnot the business that I first
came to Maryland with no, andthat was very different.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
When we met.
You were in a bit of a quandarybecause the world was in
lockdown and you were teachingpeople basically to.
I think move to China or uh, orat least even moving abroad was
difficult back then.
So when I started coaching withyou, it was right before COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I remember I did.
It was, uh, it was like ayearly, maybe leader year or
something.
It was a planning.
Um, maybe lead your year orsomething.
It was a planning, I guess,like launch that you did, and it
was December of 2019.
And I was like 2020 is going tobe the year that my business
(02:58):
helping people move to Chinatakes off.
A couple months later, after Ijoined your program I guess your
program was lead your year atthat point.
So my I joined your year longprogram and was like yes, all in
.
I'd never invested in coachinglike that before, but I was like
Marilyn's going to help me takeit to the next level, like
let's do this.
And then COVID happened veryshortly after.
(03:20):
So whoops.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
No one was going anywhere, were they?
But I must say, rochelle, youalways stood out.
You stood out as someone.
You threw yourself into it andI could see that it was beyond
ambition.
Ambition feels too cheap to usethat.
There was something in you thatknew you had a dream and you
wanted to see it happen.
(03:46):
And you were already livingthat dream and you had the
lifestyle.
You just wanted to share thatlifestyle with people.
Fortunately, I saw that and wegot to work together a little
bit and into sort of in waitingzone until the world opened back
up.
So we're recording this inEurope time zone, but I know you
(04:06):
don't live in the US.
So tell us about theinternationalness, if that's a
word of your family and whereyou're living right now.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yes, so I'm originally from Seattle in the
US, but I haven't lived in theUS since I graduated university
when I was 22.
So I've been back to visit, butI haven't lived there since.
So I originally got started inChina.
So I lived in China for justover five years, taught English,
got my master's there, workedas a college counselor, but then
(04:37):
I embarked on being a digitalnomad, lived in Vietnam,
tanzania, for a bit.
I've spent a lot of time inAustralia because I met my
Australian husband Right at thebeginning of 2020, I had moved
to Tbilisi, georgia, the country, not the state.
(04:59):
So if you don't know where thatis which I mean, let's be real,
I didn't until a few yearsbefore I moved here.
It is by, like Russia, turkey,armenia, azerbaijan, black Sea
kind of area in the Caucasusregion, and our plan was to only
be here for a couple months.
Then COVID happened and weadopted two cats, and then we
had a baby, and so now she'salmost two, and now we're
(05:22):
finally looking at movingsomewhere else, and so we will
be moving to Spain southernSpain at the beginning of 2026
what's the fascination withliving abroad, do you think?
I've always been interested inother countries and other
cultures.
I was the weird kid we had thechildren's encyclopedia and I
would flip through before Icould even read and look at the
(05:45):
pictures of like foods andcultures from around the world
and like, try to imagine myselfeating them at like four years
old.
Like that was me always.
And I was lucky enough to beborn into a family that also
loved travel.
I think my parents theytraveled a lot before we were
born but they thought, oh, withlittle kids, like we can't.
(06:05):
You know the typical kind ofAmerican mentality of like it's
very difficult and expensive totravel.
But then we were lucky enough,we were going to Disney World
and the flight was overbookedand they were offering an insane
amount of miles if you pushedyour flight back to the next day
.
And my parents were like thisis almost enough to get us to
(06:25):
Europe for free, all four of us.
And so they took it and ofcourse I'm crying because I
think we're not going to Disneyworld.
We were just the next morning,um, but uh, but yeah.
So then when I was in fourthgrade or year four, um for the
Australians when I was in fourthgrade, we, um, we went to
France and Italy and my parentsrealized, just for two weeks my
(06:46):
parents realized like, wow, this, this doesn't have to be super
expensive, like we could do this.
So throughout my childhood Ihad the opportunity to travel.
You know, every two years we'dtake a trip and go somewhere, um
, with a little bit of travel,hacking and stuff like that.
So when I, when I would visitthese countries, growing up as I
got older, gearing towards highschool, I would imagine what it
(07:10):
would be like to live there.
I'd say maybe I imagine myself.
When I was in Dubrovnik, I waslike, wow, how cool would it be
to have an apartment right there.
And that was already in my mindas a high schooler.
So, when I well, I studiedabroad in China in university.
But when I went to move back at22, when I went to move abroad,
(07:31):
no one was surprised.
So yeah, I majored ininternational relations, like
I've always been like that.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So it was inevitable that you were going to live
abroad and have a very globalmindset abroad and have a very
global mindset, which is unusual, I think.
But these days, I think peopleare really challenging, perhaps
living in the US, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, yes, especially with you know, I don't know how
much you want to get intopolitics, but especially with
how things are going in the USright now, I am definitely
seeing an increase in interest.
We can just put it that way.
But a lot of the people whowork with me, they've always
wanted to do this.
They've wanted to do it forfive years, 10 years, 15 years,
(08:15):
some people say 20 years,forever, since I was a little
kid, and they just haven'tallowed themselves to until now.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You're very different , though, to say, the influencer
model or the travel influencer.
You started in a verytraditional blogging sort of
field, which has kind of morphedinto influencing now, hasn't it
?
Can you talk to that?
A little bit.
Can you talk to that a littlebit?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, so I started as a travel blogger.
Yeah, so I had my blogAdventures Around Asia, which
still exists.
I don't update it anymore, butit still exists.
But the way I got started withthat was when I studied abroad
in China in university.
I started a study abroad blogand my study abroad company they
(08:58):
would share people's blogs andthings like that who wrote
consistently, and I just wantedto share my stories, my
experience and what I waslearning, because I felt like
China was really misunderstood,especially in the US, and there
were a lot of stereotypes.
So I'm like this is very me.
I'm going to go to China, aplace that's super, super
different from where I'm from,and I want it to be hard and I
(09:22):
want to learn about a newculture and ask them questions
and share what I learn withpeople.
So I started writing about myexperience and I was one of the
only people on this program thatconsistently updated their blog
, and so, of course, my studyabroad company was constantly
sharing my posts on their socialmedia and on their website and
stuff like that.
(09:42):
I went back to university foranother year, graduated and then
decided to teach Englishoverseas just for a year or two
and then I'll come back to theUS.
That was almost 13 years ago.
I had a teacher broad blog Icall it my crappy teacher broad
blog and so I was just sharingmy experience teaching abroad,
living in like a rural area inChina.
And then, about halfway throughthat first year, I learned that
(10:04):
travel blogs were a thing.
I had stumbled upon the worldof travel blogs and I saw them
and I was like, well, if otherpeople can do that, like why
can't I make my blog look likethat?
And I had this feeling of like,well, I wouldn't want to do it
professionally, but I can atleast make mine look nice.
And then, of course, as I gotinto the travel blogging world
(10:24):
and I started meeting people, Irealized like, hey, why can't I
just do that?
Why can't I make money with mytravel blog?
But by the time that dawned onme, I had already invested a lot
of money in a master's degreeat a British university in China
.
So I had to pay off my studentloans and so I did take a job in
Beijing for two years, paid offall my student loans, and at
(10:49):
that point I was loving travel,blogging, but I had that call to
be more of an entrepreneur.
I learned that online courseswere a thing and I thought, well
, what if I could help peoplemove to China via online course?
I had so many people reachingout to me, I was drowning in
emails and I successfully helpeda lot of people land really
amazing jobs in China and theindustry.
(11:10):
This was kind of my mission.
The industry bothered me inthat a lot of people took these
horrible jobs their first yearbecause that's what was
available, that's what hadbetter marketing, if that makes
sense.
So, for example, my first yearin China was not great.
(11:32):
I was alone on this factory linehighway where I was the only
non-Chinese person for miles,and I signed this contract that
said, if I wanted to leave myschool early, I could owe them
up to 8,000 US dollars, which ismy entire salary for the year.
And I was stuck there and ofcourse, you know, read your
contracts.
But I just kind of thoughteverything was standardized.
I thought this program wouldtake care of me.
I was like I'm not going toleave early.
(11:53):
But it was not the experiencethat was promised at all and I
met so many people who had thatkind of situation or worse, or
they'd sign on for jobs withthese big companies that would
underpay them and had all theserules, and I'm like there are
really good jobs in China, butyet no one knows they exist
because they don't have goodmarketing, they don't know how
(12:14):
to find the foreign teachers,and so I was like what if I
could provide all of thebenefits of going on something
like a program without the lowsalary, without the crappy job,
without being in the benefits ofgoing on something like a
program without the low salary,without the crappy job, without
being in the middle of nowhere.
What if I could provide thecommunity, the support, the
guidance and then connect peoplewith incredible jobs?
(12:36):
And then also the cultural sideof it as well, like everything
that scares people about movingto China.
What if I could give them likean intro to Chinese, like
survival Chinese?
That's like what if I couldtell them about Chinese culture
before they go?
So that's the signature courseprogram that I created, called
Teach Abroad Squad, that now nolonger exists, and I've created
(12:58):
something much better.
That's way more aligned, butthat's how I got started.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And I love that, because you're a great example
of what you start off with.
You're going to evolve, you'regoing to shape, you're going to
change.
Yes, one of the things thatreally connects you know, I
think we connect around is thechallenging the rules, the
challenging of the rules, thepath where you have to go to
think differently, dismantlingthe old rules in career and
(13:22):
business and life.
What changed, basically, sinceour last chat?
What happened with you?
Because which is unusual adviceNormally people say niche down,
just focus on China.
You've probably gone broadly andyet become more successful.
That's just so exciting thatyou've done that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I released the shackles of my niche and I am so
much better for it.
Yes, you did Like so muchbetter.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And I can remember having conversations with you
and you were just, there wasjust this.
I mean, covid didn't help, itdidn't help, but there was this,
there was this.
We use that as an excuse, butthere was a locking in your
thinking.
No, I have to do it this wayand I think a lot of the
training that we both had gotbefore that was you niche down
and you have a very small thing.
(14:08):
What changed, what released, Iguess, what mindset, what helped
you be brave in that area?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
This is something where that is a silver lining of
COVID.
Covid was awful but that was asilver lining in that it gave me
permission to release thatbusiness model that I thought I
had to do.
And I think this is where it'syeah, doing something different,
doing something against thegrain.
I you know, I built thebusiness that everybody asked me
(14:38):
for and it wasn't successful.
I built the business that Ithought I should create based on
my audience, based on theamount of emails I was getting.
That was just so crazy.
I had to hire a virtualassistant just to help me manage
my inbox, right, Like?
I had so many people reachingout to me asking for help and
then, and then there's also thatresentment there, right?
So many people asking for freehelp.
(14:59):
I finally create something andpeople don't want to pay me for
it and I'm like what.
And I think, honestly, I'm soglad that that business never
took off, because even by thetime that I came to you, I had
been struggling to sell thiscourse that I created, because
that's what it was.
It was a course, and then, ofcourse, I had poor boundaries
(15:20):
and started adding coaching toit without charging extra.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
That's because that's how you're wired.
You needed that.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, yes, I needed that people piece, and so it
took me a while to figure thatout.
But basically, that firstbusiness was the business that I
thought I should create, basedon logic, based on what
everybody was telling me, basedon my audience, and I created it
and it wasn't successful.
So when I finally allowedmyself and when COVID came in
and just blew the whole thing upand I said, okay, if I'm going
to start over, what do Iactually want?
(15:51):
What do I want my business tolook like?
What do I want to help peopledo, and I found myself saying,
if you're listening to this andyou found yourself saying
something similar, pay attention.
I found myself saying I don'twant to only write boring teach
abroad blog posts.
If you're saying that yourbusiness writing about what you
(16:14):
teach is boring, then probablyyou should not be teaching that,
because I felt limited.
I am more than happy to helppeople teach abroad because you
can make real good money in Asiaand Middle East, but typically
what I do now is if I'm helpingpeople teach abroad, it's in
service of something else.
(16:35):
You know.
They're like yeah, I'm going toteach abroad and I'm going to
use this money to pay off mydebt and at the same time, I'm
going to be starting my own likefreelancing business on the
side, and teaching will allow meto do that.
It's a stepping stone tosomething else.
So I just felt so limited andso shackled to this niche that I
(16:55):
just I want how do I say this?
Only working on one country,and not even just one country,
but one specific field in onespecific country.
It was so niche and sorepetitive that I felt bored.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And then also yeah, restrained.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And then also it was the business model really easily
lent into done for you, whichis not my style either, into
done for you, which is not mystyle either, and that's not
aligned to my like.
(17:34):
I need to pay attention to mypersonality, my business model
and me reviewing people'scontracts for them is not my
zone of genius.
I should never be doing thatLike that's, that's the last
place you want me, so it wasthings like that, or I would
kind of get shoved into like arecruiter role where I'm
matching people with jobs.
And none of that was what Iwanted to be doing.
I wanted to be teaching, Iwanted to be inspiring, and
(17:54):
that's where Karen, who you knowshe works a lot with Wealth
Dynamics and I took WealthDynamics and got Star.
And the second I read thatprofile, I was like, oh my God,
that's what I need to do.
I need to be speaking on stage.
I need to be the face of apersonal brand.
I need to be sharing my messagewith a broader audience.
(18:15):
I need to be a little lessaccessible.
Stars can't shine if they'redown on the ground.
They need to be up in the skyso everyone can see them.
I was like, wow, okay, so withthat kind of knowledge, in my,
in our, in my language.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's passion maker, remember, yeah that was also
very helpful I remember yousaying to me and I've never
forgotten it, and I, I I havenot fully, fully, no, I haven't.
Let's admit it, I have notfollowed thread, but it's
tugging at me now is you saidit'd be great, marilyn, if you
could use your wow archetypes tohelp people guide into the
(18:51):
business model that's right forthem.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I mean, that sounds like something I'd say yeah, and
really into personalitytypology.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So it's yeah, and you and I have been into the
Enneagram and all of that, andit's so, so, so true, and I
think we have come out of thatand it's look, it's dismantling
and we're seeing it dismantledand it's not working like it
used to.
But that model that we're alltrained in as to you know, the
ultimate is you have yourfreebie and then you have your
do-it-yourself course and thenbut some of us need that contact
(19:20):
with people.
But some of us need thatcontact with people.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
We need a different model a different model that
works for how we're hardwiredand that's not an, instead of,
it's a system that's packagedand sold to us that may not work
for us.
That's what I always tell mycurrent clients too, because a
lot of people you know, oncethey start working with me, they
(19:47):
drink the entrepreneurialKool-Aid and then I kind of how
do I say this?
Slowly but surely, everybodycomes over to work it for
themselves.
But anyway, that's what I tellpeople is you have to build a
business that's actually alignedto you and your personality,
and evergreen funnels to DIYonline courses where you have no
contact with the people who aregoing through them.
That was never going to bealigned to my personality.
(20:09):
That stopped me and I struggledand it wasn't successful.
And the current business modelthat I have now has done much
better because I found somethingwhere I'm like, ooh, this is
where I can shine.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And also.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I worked on my money mindset and changed my pricing.
So there is that.
But it's funny when you do that, people take you so much more
seriously and more people areinterested now that I'm charging
much higher prices than theyever were when I had a $200
online course, so that's beenincredible.
But, yeah, just finding astrategy that aligns with your
(20:47):
personality and I'm sure we'llget into some of the strategies
I've been using.
But, for example, I run thesepaid boot camps $37 boot camps
and right now we have a goal toget a thousand people into our
next bootcamp.
I think the highest we've everhad is 600 something.
But I'm running these like veryintensive bootcamps with mindset
(21:07):
training each day and like themain training days and things
like that.
And some of my clients say tome that is my worst nightmare.
I loved attending yours, but Iwould never want to do something
like that and I'm like cool, solet's not do that.
That's not aligned to you.
If you're more introverted, ifthe idea of standing up in front
of a thousand people andtalking doesn't energize you,
(21:30):
maybe let's find you a modelthat's better for your
personality than that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Talking to you just
energizes me so much becauseyou're just a round peg in a
round hole now and I remember ustalking about you.
I don't know.
I remember now thinking I wantRochelle working for me and
being a coach, but there waspart of me that said no, she's
going to run her own empire,she's got her own race to run
(21:56):
and I'm so race to to run andI'm so excited for you.
And where and where this?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
you've only just begun, so you thank you for not
hiring me as a coach, because Imight have been so you're, I
would say, one of you.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
one of your strongest values is freedom, so and same
with mine.
So, being told that this is thesystem that you must follow,
how did you get to that placewhere you gave yourself
permission to follow anothermodel or adopt another model in
your business, and also toexpand and broaden your
(22:37):
so-called niche?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
This was.
It took a while.
I want to say it was easy.
It was not.
I remember, you know, workingwith you and you had I forget
what it was called, but it was.
It was part of your program,something that I could download
to kind of work through myskills.
It was like a whole workbookand I was writing about things
that I was interested in.
I'm like travel, living abroad.
You know the Enneagram like Ihad this whole.
(23:01):
It was really hard for me to getclear on what I should do next,
because I felt like my firstbusiness was kind of handed to
me on a silver platter.
It was obvious if that makessense, and so eventually I did
settle on creating an onlinecourse called the freedom life
that helps people move overseas,but not just limited to one
country and also incorporatingsome mindset elements.
(23:23):
And so I kept trying to followthe model that I saw that
everyone and I say that inquotation marks everyone was
successful with, which was do afree webinar, pitch your program
, pitch your course, maybe runsome sales calls, and then you
know then that's your course andyou run it Right and you just
(23:43):
do these webinars and you haveto get and this is where your
help came in, where you're likeRochelle, your webinars aren't
converting because you don'thave enough people in the door
and actually teaching me themath behind.
You know the percentages andthings like that.
Where it's like okay, 3% ofpeople buy this, is how many you
need, because nobody teachesyou that.
So what ended up happening forme to get to where I am now is
(24:06):
it had to get so bad that Ialmost quit.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It had to get so bad that it was honestly like this.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I didn't want to quit , but here's what happened.
So I was struggling so much andI was also freelancing, you know
, partially for you and thenlater for some other people as
well.
But of course I had horriblemoney mindset issues.
I wasn't making much moneyfreelancing either.
And so then doing thesewebinars and I every month I
would go in being like, okay,I'm going to do this webinar and
(24:36):
if I can just get X amount ofpeople to sign up, that'll be an
extra $2,000 in our account.
Because we were struggling, wewere super stressed about money,
I was completely burnt outtrying to, yeah, square peg,
round hole, force it to work.
And I've realized that's mygo-to is that when things get
hard, I just push harder and I'mlike, oh, if I just work harder
(24:57):
, if I like, oh, if I just workharder, if I just try again,
it'll work.
But then I tell my own clientsit's like the equivalent of
banging your head against a walland hoping the wall will just
go away At a certain point.
You need to take a couple stepsback and look around and be
like, hmm, is there another paththat I can go around this wall,
where this wall is not here ifit's not working.
But that's always been my go-tois just work harder and it'll
(25:20):
work out.
If you just try again, if youjust tweak one little thing, it
could work.
No, it was 2021.
Towards the end of 2021, I didmy final free webinar and I knew
on that webinar, yeah, we had abunch of people sign up but
almost no one showed up live.
And the people who showed uplive, they weren't my ideal
clients and a lot of them werethe same faces who'd come to
(25:42):
everything.
And after I got off that webinar, I was like I'm not going to
make any money from this and Iclimbed into bed and I cried for
I don't know hours because myheart was broken, because I was
like this isn't working, like Ihave to be done, I can't do this
anymore, like I cannotphysically do this anymore, and
(26:04):
I was devastated.
And every time I ran a launchor did a webinar, my husband
would internally like bracehimself for the meltdown
afterwards with disappointment.
He would brace himself tocomfort me in my disappointment
because he wanted it for me, andhe was like it's just
devastating to see you putyourself through that.
And I, yeah, I just cried andcried and cried because I just
(26:27):
felt like I had to.
Let's be real, I was nevergoing to give up on my dream,
but I had to put it on pausebecause I couldn't physically do
it anymore.
I was so stressed about money.
I've been trying and I've beentrying, and I've been trying and
it wasn't working.
And so I decided you know what?
I need to take a break.
I need to stop for just twoseconds.
And then, two weeks later, I sawan ad.
(26:49):
It was for this paid launchformula, so it was teaching you
how to run a paid bootcamp thatthen had a signature program on
the back of it.
And I'd seen them around before.
I'd even joined their bootcamps, but they were always in the
middle of when I was launching,so I could never go.
But this time they were hostinglike a weekend masterclass and
(27:09):
I was like and you had to applyto be admitted to the
masterclass, they wanted peoplewho already had like some sort
of established business.
And so I was like well, youknow what?
I'll just go in.
This is how you know.
I didn't want to quit.
I'll just go and I'll justlearn, and I'm not going to join
their program on the back of itLike there's no way.
And then I show up to themasterclass.
(27:30):
They let me in.
I don't know how they let me in, but they let me in.
Show up to the masterclass andI'm like, oh, this is my
business model, yes.
Show up to the masterclass andI'm like, oh, this is my
business model, yes.
And I immediately knew in mygut that that was the business
model that I needed, likeintuitively, and sometimes
Enneagram 7 head type, I'm outof touch with my gut, but
(27:52):
whenever I listen to it it'salways right.
And so something in my gut waslike Rochelle, you can't even
afford the payment plan for this, but you have to do it.
And so I borrowed the money andI joined that program and I did
it.
And then that's what I needed.
So I just needed to change mywhole business model Crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
And it's crazy because like and this really
works me up talking about thisand it's like okay, I want to
help people know about as manydifferent models as they can so
that they can chooseappropriately, because I was
trained the same, you know, itwas almost like I had decades in
(28:33):
branding and business strategyand all of that.
But when you move online andyou start being educated, it's
almost like there's a culturewould you agree?
Of like we'll follow this andit'll, it'll work but it doesn't
, and so you can't.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Every guru has their own version of like you throw
out your common sense.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
you throw out your own experience and and and
ability to trust your gut.
We're so not used to it.
We're so used to following astep-by-step guide of being told
what to do, and I'm loving thefact that people are having
these conversations more abouthaving permission to go the way
that suits you.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, and I see this all the time with my own clients
as well, even in like other.
You know areas like freelancingand things like that, where
people come to me and they'relike what skills do I need to go
remote?
I see this VA course.
Or one person who works for menow.
She took a course on how tobecome like a court
transcription writer so shecould do that virtually and move
(29:37):
abroad.
She had no interest in that.
She never even finished thecourse and I'm like why, knowing
her personality?
I'm like why would you everthink that that was the right
fit for you?
And she's like well, I justthought I typed quickly I could
do it.
And so we see this, especiallyas entrepreneurs.
We see, oh, you've got to havethe evergreen funnel or you've
got to be on TikTok.
I remember when it was Circleand I was just like I'm not
(29:57):
going to be on Circle, I don'tcare Whatever it is.
So it's like we see thesemodels and it's like if you're
not doing this, you're missingout, it's a missed opportunity.
Everybody has to do this andthis is what's successful for me
.
But if you pay attention, thereare so many different models
and there are so many peoplesaying different things.
So it's all about okay, yeah,that model worked for them, what
(30:20):
works for you, and so thismodel worked for me and I've
done it a bunch of times now andjust I have the numbers
actually written on a whiteboardto inspire me.
So in 2021, okay, in 2021, mybusiness revenue for the entire
year was less than $4,000.
Okay, that's where we were,that's what we were dealing with
(30:40):
.
Okay, in 2022, I found thisbusiness model.
I ran my first paid bootcamp.
43 people signed up and fourpeople joined my 997 signature
program.
Cool, I made in that monthprofit what I made the entire
year before, and by the end of2022, I had made over a hundred
(31:02):
K.
It was 121 K revenue in mybusiness when it was 4K the year
before, and then the next yearI doubled it.
In 2024, it was almost 500 K,and now we're trying to hit a
million revenue this year.
So if you find the right model,it can take off, but you have
to find what actually works foryou and for me.
(31:24):
Reinventing the wheel each timedoesn't work.
I do the same boot camp.
Of course, I make adjustments.
Yeah, you improve it Boot campworks, the format that I've
created.
it works to get people started,and so why would I reinvent the
wheel and do a new topic forevery single bootcamp and make
my life revamping?
(31:45):
And reinventing the wheel everytime when I found something
that actually works.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
So, if I could sum up what we've talked about so far,
I think you've really zonedinto your value of freedom and
teaching freedom and helpingpeople have freedom, but also
living free outside of thesystem yourself.
You also locked into a businessstrategy and a model that
(32:14):
worked with your personality.
That didn't tie you to thissort of passive income or this
quiet income where you weren'thaving contact with people.
You needed that liveliness, youneeded that contact and there's
a lot of.
You know whether you have thatmodel or not.
There's a lot of models thatbut you gave yourself permission
.
So there's freedom and there'spermission.
(32:34):
But you also got confidence.
So in having those, havingthose wins on your side
definitely brings thatconfidence.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
But you, you self.
Yeah, I was scared going intomy first bootcamp.
I had a meltdown, I had ameltdown on a group coaching
call where I cried in front ofeveryone about how scared I was.
And then the person leadingthat call, she called me out and
she's like you keep saying thatyou want to get out of the
kiddie pool and go swim with thebig kids.
Well, take your hand off thebeeping edge of the pool and go
(33:10):
swim.
And I cried in front ofeveryone and I needed to hear it
.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Wow.
You said at the beginning thata lot of what you do is mindset
training.
What would you now have said toRochelle of, say, a few years
ago?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
oh, that's it.
Well, if it were me, I would goback in time and and tell
myself like because now I havethe knowledge of how successful
this could be and you've had somany failures, so to speak,
where no one would turn up andthe wrong people would turn up.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So it feels absolutely justified that you
were clinging onto the edge ofthe pool.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, cause I had taken a loan for $6,000.
I didn't have, I couldn't evenput the payment plan on my
credit card without maxing mycredit card out.
I was scared that I wouldn't beable to pay it back.
And so, actually, what was saidto me, aside from take your
hand off the edge of the pool,what was said to me was what I
needed to hear.
So I'll tell you that and thenI'll tell you what I might tell
myself.
But what she said was okay.
(34:08):
So, yeah, let's say this launchis a complete, total failure and
you don't make any money.
Are you going to quit then?
Because I had said my husbandand I have this agreement If I
can't make this work, it'sJanuary now, if I can't make
this work by August, I have toquit and go get a job again.
And so she's like okay, so youdo this one boot camp.
(34:31):
It doesn't work out, you don'tmake enough money.
Will you quit?
Go get a job tomorrow?
And I said no, no, no.
Well, I get till August and Istill have like a few more
months in the program, like Iwould just do it again.
And she's like okay, and so,absolute worst case scenario,
you don't make your money back.
Then you go get a job, right.
And she said, okay, so you getyour job back, you go work in
(34:52):
the education industry in Asiaagain, how long do you think it
would take you to pay that$6,000 back?
And I'm like I don't know, acouple of months.
She's like then why are you soscared?
Because your worst casescenario is what's going to
happen if you don't try.
So you might as well just goall in then.
Right, like you might as welltake your hand off the edge of
the pool, go all in, invest themoney in ads.
(35:13):
Like go for it.
Because that was my fear, waslike putting money in ads
because ads hadn't worked for mebefore.
She's like you might as well gofor it then, because otherwise
your worst case scenario isgoing to happen anyway.
And it really just shifted mymindset of like I was keeping
myself small, I was afraid toinvest in coaching, I was afraid
to invest in ads, and it wascreating this cycle of playing
(35:37):
small.
I was afraid to charge moremoney for my programs and my
expertise, and so the wholething was a little cycle where I
was like I'm not making enoughmoney to invest in.
You know, invest in anything.
Therefore, I'm not making money.
And I had to trust my gut andinvest money that I didn't have
in coaching and go all in on noteven all in on ads, just spend
(36:00):
some money on ads.
You know, to actually get tothis point I had to.
I, like I had to kind of trustin the universe.
I had to trust that if I tookthat step, I wouldn't, I
wouldn't fall, and that was inthe back of my mind where it's
like, well, if I don't go for it, my worst case scenario is
happening anyway.
(36:20):
So what might as well just gofor it.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
So we're what happened.
Yes, you ran.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
What happened was yeah, I ran the boot camp I made
?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
yeah, I ran a bootcamp, well what?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
happened was yeah, I ran the bootcamp and you have
the dollars.
Yeah, I ran the bootcamp, I got40 something people in, which
doesn't sound very high.
However, when you have a paidlaunch model, there's a much,
usually much higher percentageof people who show up live and
who invest in your signatureprogram.
So, 40 people four peoplejoined right, so like 10%.
You know, I ended up makingback my ad spend with ticket
(36:53):
sales as well, so I, like I,self liquidated on the ads,
which is the goal of the modelis to make your ad spend free,
so I ended up doing that.
A lot of people, I think, mightsee a launch where you make
$4,000 profit as not that great.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Oh, for your first launch in a new business.
That's phenomenal for 10%conversion.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That was my thought exactly and I think this is
important to hear.
If anyone's like, oh my God,she only made 4K, that showed me
, wow, I could do this right, Ionly made 4K, the whole previous
year revenue.
I went back and did the math.
I was like in my mind I saidthe most successful webinar
(37:35):
launch that I'd ever had waslike $2,000.
And I made 4K doing this.
That's double.
That shows me that this modelworks for me.
Let's go all in and try again.
And the second one that I did Idoubled it.
It was like 9K.
And then the one after that, mygoal, that I did.
I doubled it, it was like 9K.
And then the one after that.
My goal, I think, was 20, but Imade 36K profit, like projected
(37:58):
profit, from that launch.
And I remember running into theliving room like halfway
through my sales cycle, my opencart, running into the living
room and screaming with myhusband Chris being like people
make this in a year, like I justmade like a year salary, like
having a party.
And of course there arebusiness expenses on top of that
and that kind of thing, butjust seeing that number come in.
(38:18):
You know I I've talked topeople who have tried this model
, or who are doing theselaunches, who are expecting more
and they see 4k and they'relike, oh, that's not that much,
but this is you know this is whyyou don't give up.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Everyone starts there unless they've got multiple
millions of an audience alreadythat they've built.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
And I needed to kind of build a new audience from
scratch, because a lot of my oldaudience were China you know on
Instagram that, yeah, they'reinterested in teaching in China,
and then COVID, they weren'teven interested anymore.
So I did like a whole email listpurge and like a lot of my
social media followers werefollowing me for travel content,
not because they wanted to moveabroad, and so I needed the ads
(38:58):
.
I know some people are not thatinto ads, but I needed them to
jumpstart and find my newaudience.
And when done correctly andthis was the issue is, I didn't
know my numbers.
I didn't know.
You know, like I didn't, Icouldn't look.
I would see the ads and be like, well, ads aren't working for
me, people aren't buying.
(39:20):
But it's like, actually, peoplewere clicking through to my
sales page and it was my salespage that was the problem and
not the ads, you know, andthings like that.
Or it wasn't clear that your adis to a paid thing.
And then you get to the paidthing and people are like, oh, I
don't want to pay $37 for thisand they click off.
So I needed to make it clear inthe ads it wasn't free, so
you've got to look at the actualnumbers of your app.
A lot of people think thatthese ads don't actually work
for them, when really knowingyour numbers is what makes the
(39:42):
difference right, because youcan see what's not working and
you can make adjustments.
And so that was like.
Another mindset thing that Ineeded to get over is this fear
of investing in ads that waskeeping me small, and not
everyone needs ads, not everyonewants to do ads, but that did
help me.
It did help me create anaudience that I didn't have
before.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So, rochelle, you're moving to another European
country.
What was the uh?
What was the motive behind that?
What was the prompt to make achange in living conditions?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
That's a good question.
So we never planned on being inTbilisi for as long as we have
been.
Our plan was to stay here forfour months.
Then COVID happened and nowit's been five years and so you
know, we actually were lookingat potentially moving to Mexico
just for the time zone andthings like that, because I was
doing a lot of evening calls,because I'm quite most of my
(40:36):
clients are based in the US andso I'm based quite a bit ahead
of them.
Then, right when we were, wewere visiting my family in the
US and we're like, let's do ascouting trip to Mexico just to
pick, like the destination thatwe want to move to.
A couple of weeks before ourscouting trip I find out I'm
pregnant and I'm like, oh man, Idon't necessarily want to move,
while second trimester like thetime that we were planning on
(40:59):
moving was like right around mydue date and I'm like, okay,
let's maybe not do that and stayin Georgia where I have support
and I have friends who havekids and you know
recommendations and things likethat.
But then it got to the pointwhere our daughter is now a year
and a half and you know alsothe political direction of
Georgia.
I'm not a huge fan of what'sgoing on politically here as
(41:22):
well.
You know my Australian husband.
He hates the winter and missesthe beach, and so we just got
talking where he was like look,I'm not loving being here, but I
had even though I've beenliving abroad for 12 and a half
years I had fear where I'm like.
I have friends here, I have acommunity here, I have a good
nanny here.
(41:42):
The idea of what if I it's sofunny, it's the same stuff I
talk about with my clients whatif I give all that up and go
move to another country and Istruggle to make friends?
Because there are times thatI've struggled to make friends
living abroad.
I can't find good childcare,it's more expensive, the taxes
are crazy, you know, and sothere's that fear there and it's
really this whole process hasgiven me this renewed sense of
(42:07):
like, real compassion for myclients, because a lot of the
people that I work with are moreestablished.
I don't want to throw my wholelife away and you know I, like
people, have partners, kids,pets, you know great, fantastic
on paper, jobs, own property,you know there's there's so many
things, you know keeping themthere and then even like, hey, I
(42:28):
struggle to make friends and Ihave friends here and I don't
want to give that up, you know.
So a lot of what I'm goingthrough is what my clients go
through and I'm supposed to bethe expert, and so it's really.
I've been sharing my journeypretty honestly on my own
podcast because and people arereally loving it that I'm like
(42:49):
opening up and being honestabout that, because it's like,
yeah, just because you helpother people do it, doesn't mean
that those fears completely goaway, even if you've been doing
this for 12 years.
Just like you could be runninga business for 12 years and
still get nervous before alaunch, or still have a meltdown
when it's like, oh my God, Ican't pay my business expenses
this month.
That you're like whatever it islike, things are always going
(43:10):
to come up.
And so just because someone'sbeen doing this for longer than
you doesn't mean they're perfect, doesn't mean they don't
struggle, and so I've.
I've really been open andhonest and sharing those things
with my community and and it'sit's yeah, it's it's it's helped
me be a better coach as well.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
It's so much more than just having the right
strategy, isn't it?
It's the emotional game, themental game is such it's
everything, it's everything.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, and I'm putting pressure on it too, because
it's not just me anymore.
I have a daughter, and so I'mdeciding that the place that I'm
moving to is going to be aplace that we live for a long
time and maybe even buy property.
And then I'm putting this extrapressure on myself where, when
people ask my daughter whereshe's from, this is probably
going to be the well, it's gotto be a whole complicated
(44:00):
explanation, but this is goingto be the country where she says
like, yeah, I grew up in Spainbecause she, she'll be two when
we move there.
And if I, if I, spend at leastfive years like those are some
formative years, it's not just,oh, I'll just figure it out.
And I lived in China for fiveyears and Georgia for five years
, but I kind of just fell intoit.
It wasn't a conscious decision,whereas this is like a real
(44:23):
conscious choice.
I'm applying for a digitalnomad visa, I'm paying to ship
my stuff there, I've got twocats, I've got a kid.
It's more pressure, and thathas really helped me relate to
my clients, who do have morepressure on them, because this
is the first time in my historyof living abroad where I've had
to move to another country andhad that kind of pressure on me.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
So, rochelle, this is .
We could talk forever because Ijust I just love hearing and a
big value of mine is travel, andtalking to you just gets me
itchy again to do that.
But I imagine there are a lotof people who are listening to
this, who it's scratching anitch for them, they want to do
(45:04):
something different, but I thinkwe've talked enough for people
to get that.
It's not just knowing what visaform to fill out.
There's a lot of an emotionalsupport and just that, the
bravery to do that, and, I guess, letting go of especially the
American dream that we've beenraised on you know Australians
(45:28):
have been too that you've got toget a steady job, you've got to
get a steady education, you'vegot to do something with the
education, and that's changed alittle bit, but it is still in
our psyche, isn't it?
You are living proof that, thatyou know you can think again
about those things.
So you've got a boot camp comingup, so this podcast will be
(45:49):
fairly eternal, but I thinkyou're going to be having this
sort of thing for the next fewyears, aren't you?
So if people want to taste andthis was another thing I was
going to say to you, michelle isbefore you were doing the
webinar model.
It was really just anintroduction, whereas now your
boot camps are really solid,aren't they?
They actually create acustomized, personalized plan
(46:10):
and make decisions, which hasbeen a bit of an obstacle for
people for moving, haven't they?
It's not just listening to thewebinar.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
No, and that's what was necessary.
I think a lot of people come tomy bootcamps and they're
curious about moving abroad.
They want to, but they don'tfeel like it's possible for them
, and so what we do is, over thecourse of four days, we create
your own personalized plan tomove abroad, so we figure out
what kind of lifestyle is goingto be right for you and what
country is most aligned to youand what kind of visa would you
(46:39):
need.
How are you going to make money?
Hopefully, if you're listeningto this podcast, it's more
entrepreneurial route, but howare you going to make money?
And then, how does all of thatfit together?
Because we have to make surethat the country matches the
visa and matches the job.
We have to make sure that thatall works together.
And then on the final day, wetalk about what you need to
(46:59):
actually put this plan intoaction.
And if it's working with us,great, you can join one of our
programs.
And if not, you can at leastleave with your plan on a piece
of paper and take it from dreamto reality.
And I also do a lot of mindsettraining as well.
I do like mindset lives everyday in the Facebook group to
really show people this ispossible.
And I think a lot of times,especially for Americans, when
(47:21):
it comes to the healthcare andthe fears of like, oh my God, if
I let go of my healthcare, my401k, like I could be destitute,
like I won't have healthcareanymore.
So there's a lot of fearsaround that as well, a lot of
limiting beliefs that we bust inour mindset.
Trainings as well.
But I really needed that timewith people, I think, with this
new model, to really show peoplethat this is possible and you
(47:45):
leave with a tangible plan thatyou can actually go and
implement.
And I oftentimes say to peopleyou know, if you could just
Google your way abroad, youwould have done it already.
Like you're smart.
And that's where the frustrationgoes from, where it's like I'm
smart, I'm capable.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I should be able to do this.
Why can't I do this and chatGDP too?
You know, we can figure outanything if we're clever and we
get the prompts right, but it'sthat emotional support and the
someone to ask the questions andto customize it to you that is
so crucial.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Don't.
Don't trust chat dbt for visaadvice.
I'm just gonna throw that outthere it's real wrong I'm just
gonna throw that out there.
Yeah, it's using the internet,and then the internet, like
websites, aren't always correcteither.
No, that's right.
So yeah, because it's using theinternet, and then the internet
, like websites, aren't alwayscorrect either.
No, that's right, so it's whereit's sourcing from is not always
correct.
But yeah, no, if you would liketo join.
I mean, we do have one comingup, but I'm not sure what this
(48:41):
episode is going to drop, but wedo have one coming up at the
end of June.
But this is something that I doa few times a year.
But if we aren't running abootcamp per se, you can always
reach out to us.
We always have something goingon.
So if you reach out at MoveAbroad Coach on Instagram, we'll
just let you know hey, this iswhat's available, this is what's
happening.
Here's how we can help you, andyou can even hop on a call with
(49:03):
someone from our team.
If you do want some moreintensive coaching, you can hop
on a call with one of ourprogram specialists on our team
and we'll walk you through ouroptions and we'll see what's
going to be the right fit foryou.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
So I guess the final statement is hook into that love
of freedom that you have andfollow it.
Let go of the edge of the pool.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I love that.
Let go of the edge of the pool.
You don't have to live life theway that you've been told ever
since you were a kid.
We only get one life why not?
One of my biggest fears waswaking up at 80 years old and
realizing I never actually livedmy life for me.
I never actually did anythingthat I wanted to do.
I never moved abroad, I neverbuilt a business.
(49:46):
I just lived my whole life onautopilot, doing everything that
I should do rather than what Iwanted.
But we only get one chance atthis Be the main character of
your own life.
It's kind of a cliche, but bethe main character of your own
life and actually go after whatyou want, because worst case
scenario is what you're livingright now.
(50:08):
You could just go back to that,so why not go after what you
actually want?
Speaker 1 (50:13):
What a great place to end, Rochelle.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so great to chat with youafter a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, we'll have to check in in a few more years to
see where you've gone since then.
So is there anything else you'dlike to share?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
You know, if you're listening to this and you're
like, oh, I would love to moveabroad, but it's not possible
for me, I don't.
You know other people can do it, but I can't because of insert
reason here, Just know that youcan and I have never not once
talked to someone and said, oh,I can't help you, Sorry, Like I
(50:52):
have never even medical issues,no matter what it is like we can
work through it.
So not once have I ever talkedto someone and been like, oh
sorry, I don't know how we'regoing to make this work, I can't
help you.
So if this is something thatyou actually want move abroad,
build a business, whatever it islike we can, it is, we can help
you.
Marilyn can help you with thebusiness as well.
(51:13):
We can help you make thishappen.
So don't count yourself out andmake excuses for why you can't
have what you want before youeven get started.
That's my advice, my two cents.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Brilliant two cents, yeah.
So if that got you interestedand you would like to move
abroad and come up with a planfor that, see if it's really for
you.
I highly recommend to join oneof Rochelle's boot camps.
I'll put the links in the notesattached to this episode, so
(51:45):
definitely dive in on that.
There'll be one coming up realsoon.
Thanks for listening.
See you next time.
Well, hello there, welcome to my show.
This is where I love to chatwith people who are out there
leading their own worlds, andtoday I'm chatting with Rochelle
Gamlin.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I climbed into bed and I cried for I don't know
hours.
My heart was broken because Iwas like this isn't working,
like I have to be done.
You keep saying that you wantto, you want to get out of the
kiddie pool and go swim with thebig kids.
Well, take your hand off thebeeping edge of the pool and go
swim.
I made in that month profitwhat I made the entire year
(00:36):
before.
So if you find the right model,it can take off.
And my biggest fears was wakingup at eight years old and
realizing I never actually livedmy life for and realizing I
never actually lived my life forme.
I never actually did anythingthat I wanted to do.
I never moved abroad, I neverbuilt a business.
I just lived my whole life onautopilot, doing everything that
I should do rather than what Iwanted.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Welcome back to the show Rochelle.
This is actually the third timewe have chatted on my podcast.
We originally met online, Ithink, just as COVID started out
, and you had a slightlydifferent business than you have
now.
So tell us in your words whatis it that you actually do?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I run Move Abroad Coach so I help people create
their dream lives overseas andreally step into that life of
freedom and build a life that'struly aligned to you.
So not only do we help with thelogistics in terms of the, you
know, the visas and how to getsettled and find an apartment
and downsize, we also work a loton the mindset, the fears of,
like, what if I move abroad andI I hate it?
(01:46):
You know, what if it's not theright country for me?
What if I blow my life up andthen I can't get it back?
Um, you know, we help.
We help families and couples,people with pets, like really,
you know, disentangle themselvesfrom this life that they felt
like they should have to a lifethat they actually want.
So there's a lot of yeah, moveabroad strategy, but also life
(02:06):
and business coaching allcombined into one Um, but it's.
It's been incredible and this isnot the business that I first
came to Maryland with no, andthat was very different.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
When we met.
You were in a bit of a quandarybecause the world was in
lockdown and you were teachingpeople basically to.
I think move to China or uh, orat least even moving abroad was
difficult back then.
So when I started coaching withyou, it was right before COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I remember I did.
It was, uh, it was like ayearly, maybe leader year or
something.
It was a planning.
Um, maybe lead your year orsomething.
It was a planning, I guess,like launch that you did, and it
was December of 2019.
And I was like 2020 is going tobe the year that my business
(02:58):
helping people move to Chinatakes off.
A couple months later, after Ijoined your program I guess your
program was lead your year atthat point.
So my I joined your year longprogram and was like yes, all in
.
I'd never invested in coachinglike that before, but I was like
Marilyn's going to help me takeit to the next level, like
let's do this.
And then COVID happened veryshortly after.
(03:20):
So whoops.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
No one was going anywhere, were they?
But I must say, rochelle, youalways stood out.
You stood out as someone.
You threw yourself into it andI could see that it was beyond
ambition.
Ambition feels too cheap to usethat.
There was something in you thatknew you had a dream and you
wanted to see it happen.
(03:46):
And you were already livingthat dream and you had the
lifestyle.
You just wanted to share thatlifestyle with people.
Fortunately, I saw that and wegot to work together a little
bit and into sort of in waitingzone until the world opened back
up.
So we're recording this inEurope time zone, but I know you
(04:06):
don't live in the US.
So tell us about theinternationalness, if that's a
word of your family and whereyou're living right now.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yes, so I'm originally from Seattle in the
US, but I haven't lived in theUS since I graduated university
when I was 22.
So I've been back to visit, butI haven't lived there since.
So I originally got started inChina.
So I lived in China for justover five years, taught English,
got my master's there, workedas a college counselor, but then
(04:37):
I embarked on being a digitalnomad, lived in Vietnam,
tanzania, for a bit.
I've spent a lot of time inAustralia because I met my
Australian husband Right at thebeginning of 2020, I had moved
to Tbilisi, georgia, the country, not the state.
(04:59):
So if you don't know where thatis which I mean, let's be real,
I didn't until a few yearsbefore I moved here.
It is by, like Russia, turkey,armenia, azerbaijan, black Sea
kind of area in the Caucasusregion, and our plan was to only
be here for a couple months.
Then COVID happened and weadopted two cats, and then we
had a baby, and so now she'salmost two, and now we're
(05:22):
finally looking at movingsomewhere else, and so we will
be moving to Spain southernSpain at the beginning of 2026
what's the fascination withliving abroad, do you think?
I've always been interested inother countries and other
cultures.
I was the weird kid we had thechildren's encyclopedia and I
would flip through before Icould even read and look at the
(05:45):
pictures of like foods andcultures from around the world
and like, try to imagine myselfeating them at like four years
old.
Like that was me always.
And I was lucky enough to beborn into a family that also
loved travel.
I think my parents theytraveled a lot before we were
born but they thought, oh, withlittle kids, like we can't.
(06:05):
You know the typical kind ofAmerican mentality of like it's
very difficult and expensive totravel.
But then we were lucky enough,we were going to Disney World
and the flight was overbookedand they were offering an insane
amount of miles if you pushedyour flight back to the next day
.
And my parents were like thisis almost enough to get us to
(06:25):
Europe for free, all four of us.
And so they took it and ofcourse I'm crying because I
think we're not going to Disneyworld.
We were just the next morning,um, but uh, but yeah.
So then when I was in fourthgrade or year four, um for the
Australians when I was in fourthgrade, we, um, we went to
France and Italy and my parentsrealized, just for two weeks my
(06:46):
parents realized like, wow, this, this doesn't have to be super
expensive, like we could do this.
So throughout my childhood Ihad the opportunity to travel.
You know, every two years we'dtake a trip and go somewhere, um
, with a little bit of travel,hacking and stuff like that.
So when I, when I would visitthese countries, growing up as I
got older, gearing towards highschool, I would imagine what it
(07:10):
would be like to live there.
I'd say maybe I imagine myself.
When I was in Dubrovnik, I waslike, wow, how cool would it be
to have an apartment right there.
And that was already in my mindas a high schooler.
So, when I well, I studiedabroad in China in university.
But when I went to move back at22, when I went to move abroad,
(07:31):
no one was surprised.
So yeah, I majored ininternational relations, like
I've always been like that.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So it was inevitable that you were going to live
abroad and have a very globalmindset abroad and have a very
global mindset, which is unusual, I think.
But these days, I think peopleare really challenging, perhaps
living in the US, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, yes, especially with you know, I don't know how
much you want to get intopolitics, but especially with
how things are going in the USright now, I am definitely
seeing an increase in interest.
We can just put it that way.
But a lot of the people whowork with me, they've always
wanted to do this.
They've wanted to do it forfive years, 10 years, 15 years,
(08:15):
some people say 20 years,forever, since I was a little
kid, and they just haven'tallowed themselves to until now.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You're very different , though, to say, the influencer
model or the travel influencer.
You started in a verytraditional blogging sort of
field, which has kind of morphedinto influencing now, hasn't it
?
Can you talk to that?
A little bit.
Can you talk to that a littlebit?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, so I started as a travel blogger.
Yeah, so I had my blogAdventures Around Asia, which
still exists.
I don't update it anymore, butit still exists.
But the way I got started withthat was when I studied abroad
in China in university.
I started a study abroad blogand my study abroad company they
(08:58):
would share people's blogs andthings like that who wrote
consistently, and I just wantedto share my stories, my
experience and what I waslearning, because I felt like
China was really misunderstood,especially in the US, and there
were a lot of stereotypes.
So I'm like this is very me.
I'm going to go to China, aplace that's super, super
different from where I'm from,and I want it to be hard and I
(09:22):
want to learn about a newculture and ask them questions
and share what I learn withpeople.
So I started writing about myexperience and I was one of the
only people on this program thatconsistently updated their blog
, and so, of course, my studyabroad company was constantly
sharing my posts on their socialmedia and on their website and
stuff like that.
(09:42):
I went back to university foranother year, graduated and then
decided to teach Englishoverseas just for a year or two
and then I'll come back to theUS.
That was almost 13 years ago.
I had a teacher broad blog Icall it my crappy teacher broad
blog and so I was just sharingmy experience teaching abroad,
living in like a rural area inChina.
And then, about halfway throughthat first year, I learned that
(10:04):
travel blogs were a thing.
I had stumbled upon the worldof travel blogs and I saw them
and I was like, well, if otherpeople can do that, like why
can't I make my blog look likethat?
And I had this feeling of like,well, I wouldn't want to do it
professionally, but I can atleast make mine look nice.
And then, of course, as I gotinto the travel blogging world
(10:24):
and I started meeting people, Irealized like, hey, why can't I
just do that?
Why can't I make money with mytravel blog?
But by the time that dawned onme, I had already invested a lot
of money in a master's degreeat a British university in China
.
So I had to pay off my studentloans and so I did take a job in
Beijing for two years, paid offall my student loans, and at
(10:49):
that point I was loving travel,blogging, but I had that call to
be more of an entrepreneur.
I learned that online courseswere a thing and I thought, well
, what if I could help peoplemove to China via online course?
I had so many people reachingout to me, I was drowning in
emails and I successfully helpeda lot of people land really
amazing jobs in China and theindustry.
(11:10):
This was kind of my mission.
The industry bothered me inthat a lot of people took these
horrible jobs their first yearbecause that's what was
available, that's what hadbetter marketing, if that makes
sense.
So, for example, my first yearin China was not great.
(11:32):
I was alone on this factory linehighway where I was the only
non-Chinese person for miles,and I signed this contract that
said, if I wanted to leave myschool early, I could owe them
up to 8,000 US dollars, which ismy entire salary for the year.
And I was stuck there and ofcourse, you know, read your
contracts.
But I just kind of thoughteverything was standardized.
I thought this program wouldtake care of me.
I was like I'm not going toleave early.
(11:53):
But it was not the experiencethat was promised at all and I
met so many people who had thatkind of situation or worse, or
they'd sign on for jobs withthese big companies that would
underpay them and had all theserules, and I'm like there are
really good jobs in China, butyet no one knows they exist
because they don't have goodmarketing, they don't know how
(12:14):
to find the foreign teachers,and so I was like what if I
could provide all of thebenefits of going on something
like a program without the lowsalary, without the crappy job,
without being in the benefits ofgoing on something like a
program without the low salary,without the crappy job, without
being in the middle of nowhere.
What if I could provide thecommunity, the support, the
guidance and then connect peoplewith incredible jobs?
(12:36):
And then also the cultural sideof it as well, like everything
that scares people about movingto China.
What if I could give them likean intro to Chinese, like
survival Chinese?
That's like what if I couldtell them about Chinese culture
before they go?
So that's the signature courseprogram that I created, called
Teach Abroad Squad, that now nolonger exists, and I've created
(12:58):
something much better.
That's way more aligned, butthat's how I got started.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And I love that, because you're a great example
of what you start off with.
You're going to evolve, you'regoing to shape, you're going to
change.
Yes, one of the things thatreally connects you know, I
think we connect around is thechallenging the rules, the
challenging of the rules, thepath where you have to go to
think differently, dismantlingthe old rules in career and
(13:22):
business and life.
What changed, basically, sinceour last chat?
What happened with you?
Because which is unusual adviceNormally people say niche down,
just focus on China.
You've probably gone broadly andyet become more successful.
That's just so exciting thatyou've done that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I released the shackles of my niche and I am so
much better for it.
Yes, you did Like so muchbetter.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And I can remember having conversations with you
and you were just, there wasjust this.
I mean, covid didn't help, itdidn't help, but there was this,
there was this.
We use that as an excuse, butthere was a locking in your
thinking.
No, I have to do it this wayand I think a lot of the
training that we both had gotbefore that was you niche down
and you have a very small thing.
(14:08):
What changed, what released, Iguess, what mindset, what helped
you be brave in that area?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
This is something where that is a silver lining of
COVID.
Covid was awful but that was asilver lining in that it gave me
permission to release thatbusiness model that I thought I
had to do.
And I think this is where it'syeah, doing something different,
doing something against thegrain.
I you know, I built thebusiness that everybody asked me
(14:38):
for and it wasn't successful.
I built the business that Ithought I should create based on
my audience, based on theamount of emails I was getting.
That was just so crazy.
I had to hire a virtualassistant just to help me manage
my inbox, right, Like?
I had so many people reachingout to me asking for help and
then, and then there's also thatresentment there, right?
So many people asking for freehelp.
(14:59):
I finally create something andpeople don't want to pay me for
it and I'm like what.
And I think, honestly, I'm soglad that that business never
took off, because even by thetime that I came to you, I had
been struggling to sell thiscourse that I created, because
that's what it was.
It was a course, and then, ofcourse, I had poor boundaries
(15:20):
and started adding coaching toit without charging extra.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
That's because that's how you're wired.
You needed that.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, yes, I needed that people piece, and so it
took me a while to figure thatout.
But basically, that firstbusiness was the business that I
thought I should create, basedon logic, based on what
everybody was telling me, basedon my audience, and I created it
and it wasn't successful.
So when I finally allowedmyself and when COVID came in
and just blew the whole thing upand I said, okay, if I'm going
to start over, what do Iactually want?
(15:51):
What do I want my business tolook like?
What do I want to help peopledo, and I found myself saying,
if you're listening to this andyou found yourself saying
something similar, pay attention.
I found myself saying I don'twant to only write boring teach
abroad blog posts.
If you're saying that yourbusiness writing about what you
(16:14):
teach is boring, then probablyyou should not be teaching that,
because I felt limited.
I am more than happy to helppeople teach abroad because you
can make real good money in Asiaand Middle East, but typically
what I do now is if I'm helpingpeople teach abroad, it's in
service of something else.
(16:35):
You know.
They're like yeah, I'm going toteach abroad and I'm going to
use this money to pay off mydebt and at the same time, I'm
going to be starting my own likefreelancing business on the
side, and teaching will allow meto do that.
It's a stepping stone tosomething else.
So I just felt so limited andso shackled to this niche that I
(16:55):
just I want how do I say this?
Only working on one country,and not even just one country,
but one specific field in onespecific country.
It was so niche and sorepetitive that I felt bored.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And then also yeah, restrained.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
And then also it was the business model really easily
lent into done for you, whichis not my style either, into
done for you, which is not mystyle either, and that's not
aligned to my like.
(17:34):
I need to pay attention to mypersonality, my business model
and me reviewing people'scontracts for them is not my
zone of genius.
I should never be doing thatLike that's, that's the last
place you want me, so it wasthings like that, or I would
kind of get shoved into like arecruiter role where I'm
matching people with jobs.
And none of that was what Iwanted to be doing.
I wanted to be teaching, Iwanted to be inspiring, and
(17:54):
that's where Karen, who you knowshe works a lot with Wealth
Dynamics and I took WealthDynamics and got Star.
And the second I read thatprofile, I was like, oh my God,
that's what I need to do.
I need to be speaking on stage.
I need to be the face of apersonal brand.
I need to be sharing my messagewith a broader audience.
(18:15):
I need to be a little lessaccessible.
Stars can't shine if they'redown on the ground.
They need to be up in the skyso everyone can see them.
I was like, wow, okay, so withthat kind of knowledge, in my,
in our, in my language.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's passion maker, remember, yeah that was also
very helpful I remember yousaying to me and I've never
forgotten it, and I, I I havenot fully, fully, no, I haven't.
Let's admit it, I have notfollowed thread, but it's
tugging at me now is you saidit'd be great, marilyn, if you
could use your wow archetypes tohelp people guide into the
(18:51):
business model that's right forthem.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I mean, that sounds like something I'd say yeah, and
really into personalitytypology.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So it's yeah, and you and I have been into the
Enneagram and all of that, andit's so, so, so true, and I
think we have come out of thatand it's look, it's dismantling
and we're seeing it dismantledand it's not working like it
used to.
But that model that we're alltrained in as to you know, the
ultimate is you have yourfreebie and then you have your
do-it-yourself course and thenbut some of us need that contact
(19:20):
with people.
But some of us need thatcontact with people.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
We need a different model a different model that
works for how we're hardwiredand that's not an, instead of,
it's a system that's packagedand sold to us that may not work
for us.
That's what I always tell mycurrent clients too, because a
lot of people you know, oncethey start working with me, they
(19:47):
drink the entrepreneurialKool-Aid and then I kind of how
do I say this?
Slowly but surely, everybodycomes over to work it for
themselves.
But anyway, that's what I tellpeople is you have to build a
business that's actually alignedto you and your personality,
and evergreen funnels to DIYonline courses where you have no
contact with the people who aregoing through them.
That was never going to bealigned to my personality.
(20:09):
That stopped me and I struggledand it wasn't successful.
And the current business modelthat I have now has done much
better because I found somethingwhere I'm like, ooh, this is
where I can shine.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And also.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I worked on my money mindset and changed my pricing.
So there is that.
But it's funny when you do that, people take you so much more
seriously and more people areinterested now that I'm charging
much higher prices than theyever were when I had a $200
online course, so that's beenincredible.
But, yeah, just finding astrategy that aligns with your
(20:47):
personality and I'm sure we'llget into some of the strategies
I've been using.
But, for example, I run thesepaid boot camps $37 boot camps
and right now we have a goal toget a thousand people into our
next bootcamp.
I think the highest we've everhad is 600 something.
But I'm running these like veryintensive bootcamps with mindset
(21:07):
training each day and like themain training days and things
like that.
And some of my clients say tome that is my worst nightmare.
I loved attending yours, but Iwould never want to do something
like that and I'm like cool, solet's not do that.
That's not aligned to you.
If you're more introverted, ifthe idea of standing up in front
of a thousand people andtalking doesn't energize you,
(21:30):
maybe let's find you a modelthat's better for your
personality than that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Talking to you just
energizes me so much becauseyou're just a round peg in a
round hole now and I remember ustalking about you.
I don't know.
I remember now thinking I wantRochelle working for me and
being a coach, but there waspart of me that said no, she's
going to run her own empire,she's got her own race to run
(21:56):
and I'm so race to to run andI'm so excited for you.
And where and where this?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
you've only just begun, so you thank you for not
hiring me as a coach, because Imight have been so you're, I
would say, one of you.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
one of your strongest values is freedom, so and same
with mine.
So, being told that this is thesystem that you must follow,
how did you get to that placewhere you gave yourself
permission to follow anothermodel or adopt another model in
your business, and also toexpand and broaden your
(22:37):
so-called niche?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
This was.
It took a while.
I want to say it was easy.
It was not.
I remember, you know, workingwith you and you had I forget
what it was called, but it was.
It was part of your program,something that I could download
to kind of work through myskills.
It was like a whole workbookand I was writing about things
that I was interested in.
I'm like travel, living abroad.
You know the Enneagram like Ihad this whole.
(23:01):
It was really hard for me to getclear on what I should do next,
because I felt like my firstbusiness was kind of handed to
me on a silver platter.
It was obvious if that makessense, and so eventually I did
settle on creating an onlinecourse called the freedom life
that helps people move overseas,but not just limited to one
country and also incorporatingsome mindset elements.
(23:23):
And so I kept trying to followthe model that I saw that
everyone and I say that inquotation marks everyone was
successful with, which was do afree webinar, pitch your program
, pitch your course, maybe runsome sales calls, and then you
know then that's your course andyou run it Right and you just
(23:43):
do these webinars and you haveto get and this is where your
help came in, where you're likeRochelle, your webinars aren't
converting because you don'thave enough people in the door
and actually teaching me themath behind.
You know the percentages andthings like that.
Where it's like okay, 3% ofpeople buy this, is how many you
need, because nobody teachesyou that.
So what ended up happening forme to get to where I am now is
(24:06):
it had to get so bad that Ialmost quit.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It had to get so bad that it was honestly like this.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I didn't want to quit , but here's what happened.
So I was struggling so much andI was also freelancing, you know
, partially for you and thenlater for some other people as
well.
But of course I had horriblemoney mindset issues.
I wasn't making much moneyfreelancing either.
And so then doing thesewebinars and I every month I
would go in being like, okay,I'm going to do this webinar and
(24:36):
if I can just get X amount ofpeople to sign up, that'll be an
extra $2,000 in our account.
Because we were struggling, wewere super stressed about money,
I was completely burnt outtrying to, yeah, square peg,
round hole, force it to work.
And I've realized that's mygo-to is that when things get
hard, I just push harder and I'mlike, oh, if I just work harder
(24:57):
, if I like, oh, if I just workharder, if I just try again,
it'll work.
But then I tell my own clientsit's like the equivalent of
banging your head against a walland hoping the wall will just
go away At a certain point.
You need to take a couple stepsback and look around and be
like, hmm, is there another paththat I can go around this wall,
where this wall is not here ifit's not working.
But that's always been my go-tois just work harder and it'll
(25:20):
work out.
If you just try again, if youjust tweak one little thing, it
could work.
No, it was 2021.
Towards the end of 2021, I didmy final free webinar and I knew
on that webinar, yeah, we had abunch of people sign up but
almost no one showed up live.
And the people who showed uplive, they weren't my ideal
clients and a lot of them werethe same faces who'd come to
(25:42):
everything.
And after I got off that webinar, I was like I'm not going to
make any money from this and Iclimbed into bed and I cried for
I don't know hours because myheart was broken, because I was
like this isn't working, like Ihave to be done, I can't do this
anymore, like I cannotphysically do this anymore, and
(26:04):
I was devastated.
And every time I ran a launchor did a webinar, my husband
would internally like bracehimself for the meltdown
afterwards with disappointment.
He would brace himself tocomfort me in my disappointment
because he wanted it for me, andhe was like it's just
devastating to see you putyourself through that.
And I, yeah, I just cried andcried and cried because I just
(26:27):
felt like I had to.
Let's be real, I was nevergoing to give up on my dream,
but I had to put it on pausebecause I couldn't physically do
it anymore.
I was so stressed about money.
I've been trying and I've beentrying, and I've been trying and
it wasn't working.
And so I decided you know what?
I need to take a break.
I need to stop for just twoseconds.
And then, two weeks later, I sawan ad.
(26:49):
It was for this paid launchformula, so it was teaching you
how to run a paid bootcamp thatthen had a signature program on
the back of it.
And I'd seen them around before.
I'd even joined their bootcamps, but they were always in the
middle of when I was launching,so I could never go.
But this time they were hostinglike a weekend masterclass and
(27:09):
I was like and you had to applyto be admitted to the
masterclass, they wanted peoplewho already had like some sort
of established business.
And so I was like well, youknow what?
I'll just go in.
This is how you know.
I didn't want to quit.
I'll just go and I'll justlearn, and I'm not going to join
their program on the back of itLike there's no way.
And then I show up to themasterclass.
(27:30):
They let me in.
I don't know how they let me in, but they let me in.
Show up to the masterclass andI'm like, oh, this is my
business model, yes.
Show up to the masterclass andI'm like, oh, this is my
business model, yes.
And I immediately knew in mygut that that was the business
model that I needed, likeintuitively, and sometimes
Enneagram 7 head type, I'm outof touch with my gut, but
(27:52):
whenever I listen to it it'salways right.
And so something in my gut waslike Rochelle, you can't even
afford the payment plan for this, but you have to do it.
And so I borrowed the money andI joined that program and I did
it.
And then that's what I needed.
So I just needed to change mywhole business model Crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
And it's crazy because like and this really
works me up talking about thisand it's like okay, I want to
help people know about as manydifferent models as they can so
that they can chooseappropriately, because I was
trained the same, you know, itwas almost like I had decades in
(28:33):
branding and business strategyand all of that.
But when you move online andyou start being educated, it's
almost like there's a culturewould you agree?
Of like we'll follow this andit'll, it'll work but it doesn't
, and so you can't.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Every guru has their own version of like you throw
out your common sense.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
you throw out your own experience and and and
ability to trust your gut.
We're so not used to it.
We're so used to following astep-by-step guide of being told
what to do, and I'm loving thefact that people are having
these conversations more abouthaving permission to go the way
that suits you.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, and I see this all the time with my own clients
as well, even in like other.
You know areas like freelancingand things like that, where
people come to me and they'relike what skills do I need to go
remote?
I see this VA course.
Or one person who works for menow.
She took a course on how tobecome like a court
transcription writer so shecould do that virtually and move
(29:37):
abroad.
She had no interest in that.
She never even finished thecourse and I'm like why, knowing
her personality?
I'm like why would you everthink that that was the right
fit for you?
And she's like well, I justthought I typed quickly I could
do it.
And so we see this, especiallyas entrepreneurs.
We see, oh, you've got to havethe evergreen funnel or you've
got to be on TikTok.
I remember when it was Circleand I was just like I'm not
(29:57):
going to be on Circle, I don'tcare Whatever it is.
So it's like we see thesemodels and it's like if you're
not doing this, you're missingout, it's a missed opportunity.
Everybody has to do this andthis is what's successful for me
.
But if you pay attention, thereare so many different models
and there are so many peoplesaying different things.
So it's all about okay, yeah,that model worked for them, what
(30:20):
works for you, and so thismodel worked for me and I've
done it a bunch of times now andjust I have the numbers
actually written on a whiteboardto inspire me.
So in 2021, okay, in 2021, mybusiness revenue for the entire
year was less than $4,000.
Okay, that's where we were,that's what we were dealing with
(30:40):
.
Okay, in 2022, I found thisbusiness model.
I ran my first paid bootcamp.
43 people signed up and fourpeople joined my 997 signature
program.
Cool, I made in that monthprofit what I made the entire
year before, and by the end of2022, I had made over a hundred
(31:02):
K.
It was 121 K revenue in mybusiness when it was 4K the year
before, and then the next yearI doubled it.
In 2024, it was almost 500 K,and now we're trying to hit a
million revenue this year.
So if you find the right model,it can take off, but you have
to find what actually works foryou and for me.
(31:24):
Reinventing the wheel each timedoesn't work.
I do the same boot camp.
Of course, I make adjustments.
Yeah, you improve it Boot campworks, the format that I've
created.
it works to get people started,and so why would I reinvent the
wheel and do a new topic forevery single bootcamp and make
my life revamping?
(31:45):
And reinventing the wheel everytime when I found something
that actually works.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
So, if I could sum up what we've talked about so far,
I think you've really zonedinto your value of freedom and
teaching freedom and helpingpeople have freedom, but also
living free outside of thesystem yourself.
You also locked into a businessstrategy and a model that
(32:14):
worked with your personality.
That didn't tie you to thissort of passive income or this
quiet income where you weren'thaving contact with people.
You needed that liveliness, youneeded that contact and there's
a lot of.
You know whether you have thatmodel or not.
There's a lot of models thatbut you gave yourself permission
.
So there's freedom and there'spermission.
(32:34):
But you also got confidence.
So in having those, havingthose wins on your side
definitely brings thatconfidence.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
But you, you self.
Yeah, I was scared going intomy first bootcamp.
I had a meltdown, I had ameltdown on a group coaching
call where I cried in front ofeveryone about how scared I was.
And then the person leadingthat call, she called me out and
she's like you keep saying thatyou want to get out of the
kiddie pool and go swim with thebig kids.
Well, take your hand off thebeeping edge of the pool and go
(33:10):
swim.
And I cried in front ofeveryone and I needed to hear it
.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Wow.
You said at the beginning thata lot of what you do is mindset
training.
What would you now have said toRochelle of, say, a few years
ago?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
oh, that's it.
Well, if it were me, I would goback in time and and tell
myself like because now I havethe knowledge of how successful
this could be and you've had somany failures, so to speak,
where no one would turn up andthe wrong people would turn up.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So it feels absolutely justified that you
were clinging onto the edge ofthe pool.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, cause I had taken a loan for $6,000.
I didn't have, I couldn't evenput the payment plan on my
credit card without maxing mycredit card out.
I was scared that I wouldn't beable to pay it back.
And so, actually, what was saidto me, aside from take your
hand off the edge of the pool,what was said to me was what I
needed to hear.
So I'll tell you that and thenI'll tell you what I might tell
myself.
But what she said was okay.
(34:08):
So, yeah, let's say this launchis a complete, total failure and
you don't make any money.
Are you going to quit then?
Because I had said my husbandand I have this agreement If I
can't make this work, it'sJanuary now, if I can't make
this work by August, I have toquit and go get a job again.
And so she's like okay, so youdo this one boot camp.
(34:31):
It doesn't work out, you don'tmake enough money.
Will you quit?
Go get a job tomorrow?
And I said no, no, no.
Well, I get till August and Istill have like a few more
months in the program, like Iwould just do it again.
And she's like okay, and so,absolute worst case scenario,
you don't make your money back.
Then you go get a job, right.
And she said, okay, so you getyour job back, you go work in
(34:52):
the education industry in Asiaagain, how long do you think it
would take you to pay that$6,000 back?
And I'm like I don't know, acouple of months.
She's like then why are you soscared?
Because your worst casescenario is what's going to
happen if you don't try.
So you might as well just goall in then.
Right, like you might as welltake your hand off the edge of
the pool, go all in, invest themoney in ads.
(35:13):
Like go for it.
Because that was my fear, waslike putting money in ads
because ads hadn't worked for mebefore.
She's like you might as well gofor it then, because otherwise
your worst case scenario isgoing to happen anyway.
And it really just shifted mymindset of like I was keeping
myself small, I was afraid toinvest in coaching, I was afraid
to invest in ads, and it wascreating this cycle of playing
(35:37):
small.
I was afraid to charge moremoney for my programs and my
expertise, and so the wholething was a little cycle where I
was like I'm not making enoughmoney to invest in.
You know, invest in anything.
Therefore, I'm not making money.
And I had to trust my gut andinvest money that I didn't have
in coaching and go all in on noteven all in on ads, just spend
(36:00):
some money on ads.
You know, to actually get tothis point I had to.
I, like I had to kind of trustin the universe.
I had to trust that if I tookthat step, I wouldn't, I
wouldn't fall, and that was inthe back of my mind where it's
like, well, if I don't go for it, my worst case scenario is
happening anyway.
(36:20):
So what might as well just gofor it.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
So we're what happened.
Yes, you ran.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
What happened was yeah, I ran the boot camp I made
?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
yeah, I ran a bootcamp, well what?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
happened was yeah, I ran the bootcamp and you have
the dollars.
Yeah, I ran the bootcamp, I got40 something people in, which
doesn't sound very high.
However, when you have a paidlaunch model, there's a much,
usually much higher percentageof people who show up live and
who invest in your signatureprogram.
So, 40 people four peoplejoined right, so like 10%.
You know, I ended up makingback my ad spend with ticket
(36:53):
sales as well, so I, like I,self liquidated on the ads,
which is the goal of the modelis to make your ad spend free,
so I ended up doing that.
A lot of people, I think, mightsee a launch where you make
$4,000 profit as not that great.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Oh, for your first launch in a new business.
That's phenomenal for 10%conversion.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
That was my thought exactly and I think this is
important to hear.
If anyone's like, oh my God,she only made 4K, that showed me
, wow, I could do this right, Ionly made 4K, the whole previous
year revenue.
I went back and did the math.
I was like in my mind I saidthe most successful webinar
(37:35):
launch that I'd ever had waslike $2,000.
And I made 4K doing this.
That's double.
That shows me that this modelworks for me.
Let's go all in and try again.
And the second one that I did Idoubled it.
It was like 9K.
And then the one after that, mygoal, that I did.
I doubled it, it was like 9K.
And then the one after that.
My goal, I think, was 20, but Imade 36K profit, like projected
(37:58):
profit, from that launch.
And I remember running into theliving room like halfway
through my sales cycle, my opencart, running into the living
room and screaming with myhusband Chris being like people
make this in a year, like I justmade like a year salary, like
having a party.
And of course there arebusiness expenses on top of that
and that kind of thing, butjust seeing that number come in.
(38:18):
You know I I've talked topeople who have tried this model
, or who are doing theselaunches, who are expecting more
and they see 4k and they'relike, oh, that's not that much,
but this is you know this is whyyou don't give up.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Everyone starts there unless they've got multiple
millions of an audience alreadythat they've built.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
And I needed to kind of build a new audience from
scratch, because a lot of my oldaudience were China you know on
Instagram that, yeah, they'reinterested in teaching in China,
and then COVID, they weren'teven interested anymore.
So I did like a whole email listpurge and like a lot of my
social media followers werefollowing me for travel content,
not because they wanted to moveabroad, and so I needed the ads
(38:58):
.
I know some people are not thatinto ads, but I needed them to
jumpstart and find my newaudience.
And when done correctly andthis was the issue is, I didn't
know my numbers.
I didn't know.
You know, like I didn't, Icouldn't look.
I would see the ads and be like, well, ads aren't working for
me, people aren't buying.
(39:20):
But it's like, actually, peoplewere clicking through to my
sales page and it was my salespage that was the problem and
not the ads, you know, andthings like that.
Or it wasn't clear that your adis to a paid thing.
And then you get to the paidthing and people are like, oh, I
don't want to pay $37 for thisand they click off.
So I needed to make it clear inthe ads it wasn't free, so
you've got to look at the actualnumbers of your app.
A lot of people think thatthese ads don't actually work
for them, when really knowingyour numbers is what makes the
(39:42):
difference right, because youcan see what's not working and
you can make adjustments.
And so that was like.
Another mindset thing that Ineeded to get over is this fear
of investing in ads that waskeeping me small, and not
everyone needs ads, not everyonewants to do ads, but that did
help me.
It did help me create anaudience that I didn't have
before.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So, rochelle, you're moving to another European
country.
What was the uh?
What was the motive behind that?
What was the prompt to make achange in living conditions?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
That's a good question.
So we never planned on being inTbilisi for as long as we have
been.
Our plan was to stay here forfour months.
Then COVID happened and nowit's been five years and so you
know, we actually were lookingat potentially moving to Mexico
just for the time zone andthings like that, because I was
doing a lot of evening calls,because I'm quite most of my
(40:36):
clients are based in the US andso I'm based quite a bit ahead
of them.
Then, right when we were, wewere visiting my family in the
US and we're like, let's do ascouting trip to Mexico just to
pick, like the destination thatwe want to move to.
A couple of weeks before ourscouting trip I find out I'm
pregnant and I'm like, oh man, Idon't necessarily want to move,
while second trimester like thetime that we were planning on
(40:59):
moving was like right around mydue date and I'm like, okay,
let's maybe not do that and stayin Georgia where I have support
and I have friends who havekids and you know
recommendations and things likethat.
But then it got to the pointwhere our daughter is now a year
and a half and you know alsothe political direction of
Georgia.
I'm not a huge fan of what'sgoing on politically here as
(41:22):
well.
You know my Australian husband.
He hates the winter and missesthe beach, and so we just got
talking where he was like look,I'm not loving being here, but I
had even though I've beenliving abroad for 12 and a half
years I had fear where I'm like.
I have friends here, I have acommunity here, I have a good
nanny here.
(41:42):
The idea of what if I it's sofunny, it's the same stuff I
talk about with my clients whatif I give all that up and go
move to another country and Istruggle to make friends?
Because there are times thatI've struggled to make friends
living abroad.
I can't find good childcare,it's more expensive, the taxes
are crazy, you know, and sothere's that fear there and it's
really this whole process hasgiven me this renewed sense of
(42:07):
like, real compassion for myclients, because a lot of the
people that I work with are moreestablished.
I don't want to throw my wholelife away and you know I, like
people, have partners, kids,pets, you know great, fantastic
on paper, jobs, own property,you know there's there's so many
things, you know keeping themthere and then even like, hey, I
(42:28):
struggle to make friends and Ihave friends here and I don't
want to give that up, you know.
So a lot of what I'm goingthrough is what my clients go
through and I'm supposed to bethe expert, and so it's really.
I've been sharing my journeypretty honestly on my own
podcast because and people arereally loving it that I'm like
(42:49):
opening up and being honestabout that, because it's like,
yeah, just because you helpother people do it, doesn't mean
that those fears completely goaway, even if you've been doing
this for 12 years.
Just like you could be runninga business for 12 years and
still get nervous before alaunch, or still have a meltdown
when it's like, oh my God, Ican't pay my business expenses
this month.
That you're like whatever it islike, things are always going
(43:10):
to come up.
And so just because someone'sbeen doing this for longer than
you doesn't mean they're perfect, doesn't mean they don't
struggle, and so I've.
I've really been open andhonest and sharing those things
with my community and and it'sit's yeah, it's it's it's helped
me be a better coach as well.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
It's so much more than just having the right
strategy, isn't it?
It's the emotional game, themental game is such it's
everything, it's everything.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, and I'm putting pressure on it too, because
it's not just me anymore.
I have a daughter, and so I'mdeciding that the place that I'm
moving to is going to be aplace that we live for a long
time and maybe even buy property.
And then I'm putting this extrapressure on myself where, when
people ask my daughter whereshe's from, this is probably
going to be the well, it's gotto be a whole complicated
(44:00):
explanation, but this is goingto be the country where she says
like, yeah, I grew up in Spainbecause she, she'll be two when
we move there.
And if I, if I, spend at leastfive years like those are some
formative years, it's not just,oh, I'll just figure it out.
And I lived in China for fiveyears and Georgia for five years
, but I kind of just fell intoit.
It wasn't a conscious decision,whereas this is like a real
(44:23):
conscious choice.
I'm applying for a digitalnomad visa, I'm paying to ship
my stuff there, I've got twocats, I've got a kid.
It's more pressure, and thathas really helped me relate to
my clients, who do have morepressure on them, because this
is the first time in my historyof living abroad where I've had
to move to another country andhad that kind of pressure on me.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
So, rochelle, this is .
We could talk forever because Ijust I just love hearing and a
big value of mine is travel, andtalking to you just gets me
itchy again to do that.
But I imagine there are a lotof people who are listening to
this, who it's scratching anitch for them, they want to do
(45:04):
something different, but I thinkwe've talked enough for people
to get that.
It's not just knowing what visaform to fill out.
There's a lot of an emotionalsupport and just that, the
bravery to do that, and, I guess, letting go of especially the
American dream that we've beenraised on you know Australians
(45:28):
have been too that you've got toget a steady job, you've got to
get a steady education, you'vegot to do something with the
education, and that's changed alittle bit, but it is still in
our psyche, isn't it?
You are living proof that, thatyou know you can think again
about those things.
So you've got a boot camp comingup, so this podcast will be
(45:49):
fairly eternal, but I thinkyou're going to be having this
sort of thing for the next fewyears, aren't you?
So if people want to taste andthis was another thing I was
going to say to you, michelle isbefore you were doing the
webinar model.
It was really just anintroduction, whereas now your
boot camps are really solid,aren't they?
They actually create acustomized, personalized plan
(46:10):
and make decisions, which hasbeen a bit of an obstacle for
people for moving, haven't they?
It's not just listening to thewebinar.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
No, and that's what was necessary.
I think a lot of people come tomy bootcamps and they're
curious about moving abroad.
They want to, but they don'tfeel like it's possible for them
, and so what we do is, over thecourse of four days, we create
your own personalized plan tomove abroad, so we figure out
what kind of lifestyle is goingto be right for you and what
country is most aligned to youand what kind of visa would you
(46:39):
need.
How are you going to make money?
Hopefully, if you're listeningto this podcast, it's more
entrepreneurial route, but howare you going to make money?
And then, how does all of thatfit together?
Because we have to make surethat the country matches the
visa and matches the job.
We have to make sure that thatall works together.
And then on the final day, wetalk about what you need to
(46:59):
actually put this plan intoaction.
And if it's working with us,great, you can join one of our
programs.
And if not, you can at leastleave with your plan on a piece
of paper and take it from dreamto reality.
And I also do a lot of mindsettraining as well.
I do like mindset lives everyday in the Facebook group to
really show people this ispossible.
And I think a lot of times,especially for Americans, when
(47:21):
it comes to the healthcare andthe fears of like, oh my God, if
I let go of my healthcare, my401k, like I could be destitute,
like I won't have healthcareanymore.
So there's a lot of fearsaround that as well, a lot of
limiting beliefs that we bust inour mindset.
Trainings as well.
But I really needed that timewith people, I think, with this
new model, to really show peoplethat this is possible and you
(47:45):
leave with a tangible plan thatyou can actually go and
implement.
And I oftentimes say to peopleyou know, if you could just
Google your way abroad, youwould have done it already.
Like you're smart.
And that's where the frustrationgoes from, where it's like I'm
smart, I'm capable.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I should be able to do this.
Why can't I do this and chatGDP too?
You know, we can figure outanything if we're clever and we
get the prompts right, but it'sthat emotional support and the
someone to ask the questions andto customize it to you that is
so crucial.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Don't.
Don't trust chat dbt for visaadvice.
I'm just gonna throw that outthere it's real wrong I'm just
gonna throw that out there.
Yeah, it's using the internet,and then the internet, like
websites, aren't always correcteither.
No, that's right.
So yeah, because it's using theinternet, and then the internet
, like websites, aren't alwayscorrect either.
No, that's right, so it's whereit's sourcing from is not always
correct.
But yeah, no, if you would liketo join.
I mean, we do have one comingup, but I'm not sure what this
(48:41):
episode is going to drop, but wedo have one coming up at the
end of June.
But this is something that I doa few times a year.
But if we aren't running abootcamp per se, you can always
reach out to us.
We always have something goingon.
So if you reach out at MoveAbroad Coach on Instagram, we'll
just let you know hey, this iswhat's available, this is what's
happening.
Here's how we can help you, andyou can even hop on a call with
(49:03):
someone from our team.
If you do want some moreintensive coaching, you can hop
on a call with one of ourprogram specialists on our team
and we'll walk you through ouroptions and we'll see what's
going to be the right fit foryou.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
So I guess the final statement is hook into that love
of freedom that you have andfollow it.
Let go of the edge of the pool.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I love that.
Let go of the edge of the pool.
You don't have to live life theway that you've been told ever
since you were a kid.
We only get one life why not?
One of my biggest fears waswaking up at 80 years old and
realizing I never actually livedmy life for me.
I never actually did anythingthat I wanted to do.
I never moved abroad, I neverbuilt a business.
(49:46):
I just lived my whole life onautopilot, doing everything that
I should do rather than what Iwanted.
But we only get one chance atthis Be the main character of
your own life.
It's kind of a cliche, but bethe main character of your own
life and actually go after whatyou want, because worst case
scenario is what you're livingright now.
(50:08):
You could just go back to that,so why not go after what you
actually want?
Speaker 1 (50:13):
What a great place to end, Rochelle.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's so great to chat with youafter a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, we'll have to check in in a few more years to
see where you've gone since then.
So is there anything else you'dlike to share?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
You know, if you're listening to this and you're
like, oh, I would love to moveabroad, but it's not possible
for me, I don't.
You know other people can do it, but I can't because of insert
reason here, Just know that youcan and I have never not once
talked to someone and said, oh,I can't help you, Sorry, Like I
(50:52):
have never even medical issues,no matter what it is like we can
work through it.
So not once have I ever talkedto someone and been like, oh
sorry, I don't know how we'regoing to make this work, I can't
help you.
So if this is something thatyou actually want move abroad,
build a business, whatever it islike we can, it is, we can help
you.
Marilyn can help you with thebusiness as well.
(51:13):
We can help you make thishappen.
So don't count yourself out andmake excuses for why you can't
have what you want before youeven get started.
That's my advice, my two cents.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Brilliant two cents, yeah.
So if that got you interestedand you would like to move
abroad and come up with a planfor that, see if it's really for
you.
I highly recommend to join oneof Rochelle's boot camps.
I'll put the links in the notesattached to this episode, so
(51:45):
definitely dive in on that.
There'll be one coming up realsoon.
Thanks for listening.
See you next time.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.