September 24, 2024 • 32 mins
Debbie and Kendall discuss the growing role that fear, worry and anxiety will play in the lives of believers as the end of the age approaches.
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(00:00):
Hello, Miss Debbie.
(00:10):
Hello.
It's been a minute since we've done one of these.
It has.
So glad to be back at the table with you.
Thank you.
I know we've got some, we've had a conversation before the conversation, so I'm looking forward
to this recording and looking forward to what you have to share with us.
Okay.
(00:30):
Well, I had kind of a moment between something I heard from Dr. David Jeremiah, I watch him
on TV out of San Diego, and your sermon a couple of Sundays ago.
So first off, I saw his program and he was talking about the armor of God, which you
(00:54):
know we're doing that book in Sunday school.
Oh, good.
So, I was glad I got to hear his sermon about that.
But one of the things he said that helps him grow is he has a friend that he meets with,
and that they are just very honest with each other about what temptation they are having
(01:18):
at that current time.
And then they kind of talk that through with each other.
But one of the things that I liked that he said is he said, you know, you know where
the devil tempts you.
You know what it is that he brings to your mind or tempts you with.
And he said, so take that, whatever it is, look up all the verses in the Bible about
(01:44):
that subject.
Let's just say if it was lying or whatever it might be, then you would find all the verses
about that and use that as the sword, which is the word of God, to fight and to be able
to stand.
And he used Jesus' temptation as an example of how Jesus used the word to fight the devil.
(02:09):
And so he said, so when you're tempted by that, you can use the word to fight with it.
So I did that for myself.
I think I've told you before, but worry is something that can take on a life of its own
for me.
So I have to really try to keep that in bounds.
(02:30):
So I went and looked up verses and wrote them down about worry.
And it took me to Matthew 6, which when I went to church on that Sunday was exactly
what you were preaching about.
And so I thought, oh, I have a connection here about that.
(02:53):
But I did like the verses in Matthew.
And then the other one was also Matthew 10, which was not to worry about what you're going
to say, but the Matthew 6 one is, don't worry about what you're going to eat.
Don't worry about what you're going to wear.
You're not going to add a single hour to your life by worrying.
(03:18):
And then 33 says, but seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things
will be given to you as well.
That's great, great words of wisdom.
You know, they say that the opposite of faith isn't unbelief.
(03:41):
The opposite of faith is fear.
And so it's the antidote to anxiety is building your faith.
And so the Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
So this is why this is such a wise strategy.
(04:07):
Believing on the word of God is what builds and strengthens and fortifies our faith or
our confidence in God.
So whenever we have confidence in God and we're equipped with the knowledge of God,
that anxiety does not have the power over our mind and emotions that it would otherwise
(04:29):
have.
Right, right.
Because you have something that reassures you that God knows what you're going through.
He knows what you need.
And He's there in the midst of it all.
You're not in it by yourself.
Right.
(04:49):
Yeah.
And you know, it's like as you go throughout life, you know, you realize the things that
you're really afraid of never turn out to be as bad as they are in your imagination
if they even happen at all, which typically they don't.
So but we still fall prey to that temptation to let that get a, you know, worm into our
(05:14):
minds and imagination and affect our emotions and create stress and all kinds of negative
behaviors.
Right.
And the Bible talks about that.
Right.
Yes.
Jesus says explicitly in Matthew 21.
So Jesus is talking about the end times and he's talking about how anxiety is only going
(05:38):
to get worse.
Right.
Bad news, everyone.
But I want to read through this because it says a lot about the things that are going
to cause anxiety to become almost an epidemic.
(06:00):
Okay.
So this is from Matthew 21 starting in verse 25.
Now the whole chapter is about Jesus teaching on the end times, but this is going to specifically
deal with the problem of anxiety.
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars on the earth.
Wings will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.
(06:27):
So things in nature are going to be disturbing the nations.
Men will faint from terror.
Think about that.
Yeah.
Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world.
(06:47):
We were talking about how this election cycle is causing people to just absolutely go baddy.
Right.
Yes.
A lot of anxiety.
People are losing their marbles over this.
For the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Verse 27.
At that time they will see the son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(07:10):
When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads because your redemption
is drawing near.
Then Jesus goes into the parable about the fig tree telling us we're supposed to be able
to recognize these things as believers when they happen.
Verse 32.
No, scratch that.
Verse 34.
Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and anxieties.
(07:40):
And so Jesus is talking about anxiety and how people are going to medicate the mental
torment that causes them.
Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation that is behavior that
is unhealthy that you're using to cope with stress and anxiety.
(08:05):
Dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life and that day will close on you unexpectedly
like a trap.
So Jesus is telling us to be able to recognize the fig tree and the signs.
But then there's going to be people who allow themselves to get overwhelmed with anxiety.
Why?
Because they have not fed on a healthy diet of the word of God.
(08:31):
I mean that's just the bottom line.
They have not been in training for godliness.
And so the anxiety is going to catch those people like a trap and they're going to get
in trouble.
It will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
(08:53):
Be always on watch and pray that you may be able to escape what is about to happen.
And that you may be able to stand before the son of man.
Wow.
Yes.
So if we're not anxious enough about present times we can think about future times.
(09:15):
We won't be adequately prepared.
You're going to have a trap.
You're a sitting duck is what Jesus is saying.
For a trap to be sprung on you and you'll be in trouble.
Yeah.
Well it is frightening.
I think anytime where well not that anything really is in our control but it seems to be
(09:38):
in a controlled environment and then it isn't.
Right.
That brings an unsettling or unrest about where things are going.
How that's going to happen.
What does that mean to me?
All of those ifs start pouring in just as that anxiety becomes worry becomes fear becomes
(10:00):
dread becomes and and and he is saying are you going to trust me during this time?
Are you going to believe what I've told you?
Because I'm telling you what's coming.
So are you going to trust me that it's not out of my control?
(10:20):
That's right.
We can already see some major calamities on the horizon.
We don't need to go rehearse those but Jesus gives us a promise here to place our hope
on.
So he is talking about all of these calamities are come are going to come upon the face of
(10:41):
the whole earth.
Be always on the watch and pray right that you may be able to escape all that is about
to happen.
So there it is.
That's a promise.
This is these bad things are going to happen but there's an out.
(11:05):
If you're watching and praying watching I'm keeping my mind focused on the things of God
praying I'm asking for heaven to release supernatural power into my circumstances and you will be
able to escape these things.
Wow that's great.
We need that little hope in there.
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And it's instructions.
It's instructions.
So you know I'm teaching a class on revelation right now.
I've done this class 10 20 different times and people always say the same thing.
I'm just so scared.
(11:46):
You know yes and there are some scary things in there.
But one of the things I point out when I teach that class is a very small portion of the
disastrous things written about in the revelation in revelation are going to affect believers
a small minority of the things affect believers.
(12:09):
The majority of that is directed at the Antichrist and those aligned with Antichrist.
And so it shouldn't cause us to be afraid.
It's an instruction manual for how we partner with God in reclaiming the nations of the
earth.
OK.
(12:29):
So what are the things that will affect believers.
So the book of Revelation describes God's plan to hand the keys of the nations to his
son Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is returning to the earth to take over the governments of the earth.
(12:52):
They are currently under Satan's control and the book of Revelation is about the war that
is going to occur between those two competing interests.
So God is going to pour out his wrath on Antichrist and those aligned with Antichrist.
The Antichrist is going to pour out his wrath on believers and the Jewish church.
(13:18):
So the church and the Jewish people will suffer the wrath of Antichrist.
The church will be partnering with God through prayer in releasing the wrath of God on the
Antichrist and his armies.
So it will be a war over the governments of planet earth.
OK.
For the new kingdom.
(13:38):
I've heard you say the new kingdom where Jesus will be reigning is going to take place.
With resurrected believers.
OK.
Yeah.
And that is of course something we will have never seen before.
So it's hard to imagine what that will look like beyond what we read about here.
(14:05):
It's hard to get your mind around that.
That's right.
What will it look like?
But you know we were discussing before the podcast how we can look back in history which
is recorded in the Bible and other places about how whenever major prophetic events
were manifest on the earth there are some common things that happen.
(14:26):
So with one of the first ones you have the so you've had the dispersion of the Jewish
people.
Jerusalem has been captured and destroyed by Babylon and God has promised in the book
of Jeremiah that dispersion will last for 70 years.
OK.
(14:47):
Daniel knows about this and so Daniel knows those 70 years are up.
And so in Daniel chapter 9 Daniel fasts for three weeks and he prays and he's praying
a prayer of repentance over the unfaithfulness of the Jewish people.
He's praying.
He's reminding.
Well he's not reminding God he's just recognizing before God that 70 years is up and he's asking
(15:10):
God when are you going to fulfill your promise.
And so that's whenever Daniel receives this revelation.
God sends an angel.
And so all these angels are appearing to Daniel and he's having these supernatural encounters
because he is in a prophetic season.
God is about to restore the Jewish people to their homeland and rebuild the second temple.
(15:34):
This is a major historical prophetic event.
And so there's all this supernatural activity around this occurring.
Now at the same time in the books of Nehemiah and Haggai where they're actually working
to restore the city of Jerusalem and prepare to rebuild the second temple there's literal
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war going on to try and keep that from happening.
OK.
Right.
So supernatural encounters are ramped up and you see literal war is happening to try and
keep these prophetic things from happening.
OK.
OK.
You will see the same thing before the first coming of Jesus Christ.
(16:18):
I told you the Jewish historian Josephus said that there was literal civil war between the
Pharisees and Sadducees.
And he says all of Israel was walking in madness.
People were going crazy kind of like they are now.
Because in the spirit world things are getting stirred up and that's affecting people on
(16:39):
the earth.
And so there was a group of people called the Zadok priesthood who was instructed by
the Holy Spirit to flee from Jerusalem.
They knew this not just from the Holy Spirit but from writings in prophetic scripture to
flee to Egypt which is what they did.
(17:01):
And they took the temple library with them and they built a second temple in Egypt.
OK.
Now at the first coming of Jesus we have all of these supernatural encounters with angels
appearing to shepherds and the shepherds see heaven and this choir of angels singing.
(17:21):
We all know the Christmas story.
OK.
So there is a heightened manifestation of supernatural occurrences that produce difficult
circumstances on the earth like King Herod decides he's going to try and kill all of
(17:41):
the children two years and younger.
Right.
Right.
So these things in the supernatural this prophetic cycle is manifesting this anti-Christ behavior
that is literally coming on the earth.
Now how did when it talks about pray that you would be able to escape.
Do you remember how Jesus was able to escape from here.
(18:02):
Yes.
An angel came to Joseph and said take your wife and child and go into Africa continent
of Africa Egypt.
They have a supernatural instruction from God but they also have they're given strength
to escape natural means that allowed them to make that happen.
(18:25):
Do you remember what that was.
The census is why they're there.
Do you mean the census.
No they were actually provided some very valuable resources.
Oh from the three wise men.
There you go.
Yeah.
The three gifts.
So you have these wise men who are who know something prophetic is happening based upon
(18:48):
their studies.
They're not even Christians or Jews they're pagans but they know from their studies they're
in a prophetic cycle.
OK.
And so they bring these gifts to this kingdom that's been born and those gifts are what
funded Jesus Mary and Joseph's stay in of all places Egypt Egypt the same place where
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the Zadok priests had escaped and began discipling and forming communities hundreds of years
earlier is where Jesus sent his son to be protected from the rage of Antichrist.
He was given strength to escape both supernatural and natural strength to escape to come out
(19:39):
from underneath the wrath of an Antichrist figure.
So you look at those pictures in history God's going to do that same kind of thing again.
You know but it's tied to being strengthened on the word of God.
First of all being open to the supernatural realm the supernatural manifestations of God
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and the Holy Spirit the gifts of the Holy Spirit these types of things and being prepared
to escape by being obedient to what the Holy Spirit instructs us to do.
These are critical for the church to be in training in these things right now.
(20:23):
You know I just came out with an article today that I'm going to cover in tonight's class
about the timing of the rapture and how so many people are counting on being raptured
out of here.
Right before any of this happens.
That's what we hope for.
This is going to be a very difficult article for those types of people to read.
(20:45):
I would suggest you read it as well.
I will.
Because the Bible very clearly teaches and I showed you some of the verses.
You did.
Immediately Matthew 24 verse 25 I believe immediately after the tribulation of those
(21:09):
days the sun will be darkened and then the son of man will appear and gather his elect.
So that teaches the exact same thing in Mark 13.
And I read you the verse from 1st Thessalonians Paul assumed he would be alive with his Gentile
(21:29):
churches at the coming of the Lord.
He assumed they would have to face the Antichrist.
And I will say this there are zero verses of scripture that teach a pre tribulation
rapture of the church.
Zero.
You know that's like you had said it's something I think we hope for because you would like
(21:56):
to miss all all of the all of the pieces that are uncomfortable or fearful or that are about
to take place because we know we will be persecuted.
And so who wants to say oh yeah.
Yeah.
But it even amongst the learned religious leaders like yourself and others there's still
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controversy around that timeline isn't there.
There is.
And not just from people who think we're going to be raptured out of here but from people
who don't think any of this applies to the church at all.
All of this was fulfilled in the first 300 years of the church.
You know which I was reading a good and honestly probably amongst the intelligentsia of Christendom
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that that idea holds more merit than the idea of a pre tribulation rapture.
They make fun of that idea.
So they they kind of look down their nose and call them left behind Christians you know.
But they've got a very glaring problem said themselves.
Jesus explicitly teaches in Matthew 24 this will be a time of trouble that has never been
(23:14):
seen before nor will it be seen after.
Right.
And so applied to the Jewish people whenever Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. and they
think that fulfilled Bible prophecy and it was very bad.
It was horrific.
And so they think that Bible prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. well they've got a little
(23:39):
problem don't they.
Because there's this thing called the Jewish Holocaust.
That happened much.
Yeah.
Right.
I was just wondering about that.
I mean the Jewish people were the only ones who had the right to be in the Holocaust.
So I would say both of those positions have their problem.
But I go back to the testimony of the early church fathers in the first 300 years of the
(24:01):
church.
How would they have interpreted these passages and they were unanimous.
Every single early church father believed the church would face the Antichrist.
The idea of a pre tribulation rapture does not come up until the late 1800s.
So in that viewpoint where does the rapture occur?
(24:26):
Before this they would say the rapture occurs before Antichrist establishes himself as God
which starts the three and a half year great tribulation.
OK.
Yeah.
The church is raptured before that happens.
So I think it's kind of hard to pin it down because it's just based upon somebody's personal
(24:48):
opinion you can't exegete any scripture you know to teach that.
So there's you'll probably find differences of opinion on that.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So where do you believe we are you placing the rapture on the time in the article I released
today the timing of the rapture.
I will argue from scripture that I believe the rapture of the church the resurrection
(25:14):
from the dead and the return of Jesus Christ are simultaneous and it happens 30 days before
the Antichrist is destroyed.
It's called and this is called a pre wrath rapture of the church position.
So the wrath of God is poured out on the Antichrist and his armies in a process that lasts for
(25:36):
30 days.
The church is with Jesus in the air as he is doing this before his return where he sets
his feet on the Mount of Olives.
OK.
So yeah it can all it all kind of is occurring from what you're saying simultaneously some
(25:59):
of that or no.
So the return of Jesus Christ the resurrection from the dead and the rapture are simultaneous.
OK.
So the defeat of Antichrist and his armies is a process.
It's a war.
OK.
OK.
The Battle of Armageddon is the final battle of a war by where Jesus is destroying the
(26:23):
armies of Antichrist which is comprised of the nations or the governments of the earth.
So there's going to be a massive military operation to try and keep Jesus from taking
over the governments of the earth.
And that will be a 30 day war but where the wrath of God is being poured out on his enemies
but the church is with Jesus as he's doing this.
(26:45):
OK.
So so that's a process.
OK.
So then then when Jesus returns then the millennial will begin.
And I would say that if you were deciphering from Ezekiel Daniel Revelation the prophetic
(27:09):
content in there there will be a marriage supper of the lamb a big party that last.
The banquet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Several months.
And this would have been common in the ancient world.
It would it would not have been uncommon for a king to throw a big party that lasted for
months.
So the marriage supper of the lamb will be a big party celebrating the inauguration of
(27:30):
the kingdom.
But the inauguration happens at the end of that party.
So yeah.
So the things that people are saying have already that have happened in the past that
have that are fulfilling the end which you're saying that is not then are those things a
(27:50):
foreshadowing absolutely to come.
Absolutely.
And that is to give us a picture of how God fulfills prophecy and how people can partner
with him and what he is wanting to accomplish on the earth.
This is why studying Bible prophecy is so important.
People who make jokes like well I heard a pre millennial list I heard a pan.
(28:14):
I've heard a post millennial list.
I heard I heard of this that and the other.
I'm a pan millennialist.
I just believe it will all pan out in the end.
I'm like that is so stupid and foolish to say things like that.
You know and it's contagious.
Other people will will will buy into it.
(28:35):
And that's why that joke gets so much traction.
But it is a picture of how God will literally fulfill prophecy within the events of history
and how people can be aware of what is written and partner with God as he's doing these things
and escape the big trouble whenever it happens.
(29:00):
OK.
So thinking about the word being a sword which we were talking about earlier that we can
use Bible verses to help us but also the history that we read about can also help us to to
know to see what God has done in the past that has helped civilizations or people get
(29:28):
through tribulations of their own through his intervention support and that should be
reassuring for us.
So it's a sword but it's also a foundation I guess I would try to say of knowledge that
(29:49):
we need to be equipped with.
Right.
I guess I'm thinking it's two things.
It is.
So the the word of God is a spiritual weapon and it's explicitly taught that that with
the prayer of the saints is a weapon in God's hands and it's also a playbook.
(30:10):
So let's say you're going into war or like we'll say a football game.
OK.
You're going to have an offensive and defensive playbook.
You need to know the plays.
You need to know your opponent's plays.
Well the Bible gives us both sets of instructions.
If we know the playbook we will be able to partner with God and be victorious whenever
the game begins.
(30:32):
You know.
Yeah.
So it's a weapon in the sense that it is a key to victory.
You know.
Yeah.
But that's very reassuring and we have it here and it's with us and if we don't know
what it says we have no one to blame but ourselves.
That's correct.
Absolutely.
(30:52):
Myself included.
In that statement.
But it is reassuring though because because we do.
It's such a powerful book.
Even if I read a book about this book.
Yes.
It doesn't have the power that this book has as being the word of God.
(31:15):
But the power of that other book is that it helps you understand this more clearly.
Absolutely.
Right.
Yes.
So that's.
I've heard that it's like I've encountered some powerful things reading those other books
because they shed light on something in here that I didn't understand correctly.
You know.
Yeah.
And then the end of times are very confusing.
(31:36):
Yes.
Anyway.
Yes.
So it's good to know though that we have.
We have God with us as believers and that he will whatever that looks like he will be
there.
And he is in control.
(31:57):
And like from the stories that we told not only will he be there he will be there and
manifest in a way we may never have seen before.
So we can expect him to manifest himself in heightened ways.
Wow.
And he will be even more present than he is in you know normal times.
(32:18):
Wow.
So yeah that'd be awesome.
Amen.
All right.
Well is that it.
I think so.
I think so.
Thank you for that.
And like you know we say we start these conversations we never know where they're going to go.
I said but I was like you know what we'll start this conversation and it's just going
to be what it's supposed to be.
Yes.
I think it was.
(32:39):
Yes I do too.
So good work team.
Thank you.
All right.
We'll catch you next time.
OK.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Hello, Miss Debbie.
(00:10):
Hello.
It's been a minute since we've done one of these.
It has.
So glad to be back at the table with you.
Thank you.
I know we've got some, we've had a conversation before the conversation, so I'm looking forward
to this recording and looking forward to what you have to share with us.
Okay.
(00:30):
Well, I had kind of a moment between something I heard from Dr. David Jeremiah, I watch him
on TV out of San Diego, and your sermon a couple of Sundays ago.
So first off, I saw his program and he was talking about the armor of God, which you
(00:54):
know we're doing that book in Sunday school.
Oh, good.
So, I was glad I got to hear his sermon about that.
But one of the things he said that helps him grow is he has a friend that he meets with,
and that they are just very honest with each other about what temptation they are having
(01:18):
at that current time.
And then they kind of talk that through with each other.
But one of the things that I liked that he said is he said, you know, you know where
the devil tempts you.
You know what it is that he brings to your mind or tempts you with.
And he said, so take that, whatever it is, look up all the verses in the Bible about
(01:44):
that subject.
Let's just say if it was lying or whatever it might be, then you would find all the verses
about that and use that as the sword, which is the word of God, to fight and to be able
to stand.
And he used Jesus' temptation as an example of how Jesus used the word to fight the devil.
(02:09):
And so he said, so when you're tempted by that, you can use the word to fight with it.
So I did that for myself.
I think I've told you before, but worry is something that can take on a life of its own
for me.
So I have to really try to keep that in bounds.
(02:30):
So I went and looked up verses and wrote them down about worry.
And it took me to Matthew 6, which when I went to church on that Sunday was exactly
what you were preaching about.
And so I thought, oh, I have a connection here about that.
(02:53):
But I did like the verses in Matthew.
And then the other one was also Matthew 10, which was not to worry about what you're going
to say, but the Matthew 6 one is, don't worry about what you're going to eat.
Don't worry about what you're going to wear.
You're not going to add a single hour to your life by worrying.
(03:18):
And then 33 says, but seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things
will be given to you as well.
That's great, great words of wisdom.
You know, they say that the opposite of faith isn't unbelief.
(03:41):
The opposite of faith is fear.
And so it's the antidote to anxiety is building your faith.
And so the Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
So this is why this is such a wise strategy.
(04:07):
Believing on the word of God is what builds and strengthens and fortifies our faith or
our confidence in God.
So whenever we have confidence in God and we're equipped with the knowledge of God,
that anxiety does not have the power over our mind and emotions that it would otherwise
(04:29):
have.
Right, right.
Because you have something that reassures you that God knows what you're going through.
He knows what you need.
And He's there in the midst of it all.
You're not in it by yourself.
Right.
(04:49):
Yeah.
And you know, it's like as you go throughout life, you know, you realize the things that
you're really afraid of never turn out to be as bad as they are in your imagination
if they even happen at all, which typically they don't.
So but we still fall prey to that temptation to let that get a, you know, worm into our
(05:14):
minds and imagination and affect our emotions and create stress and all kinds of negative
behaviors.
Right.
And the Bible talks about that.
Right.
Yes.
Jesus says explicitly in Matthew 21.
So Jesus is talking about the end times and he's talking about how anxiety is only going
(05:38):
to get worse.
Right.
Bad news, everyone.
But I want to read through this because it says a lot about the things that are going
to cause anxiety to become almost an epidemic.
(06:00):
Okay.
So this is from Matthew 21 starting in verse 25.
Now the whole chapter is about Jesus teaching on the end times, but this is going to specifically
deal with the problem of anxiety.
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars on the earth.
Wings will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.
(06:27):
So things in nature are going to be disturbing the nations.
Men will faint from terror.
Think about that.
Yeah.
Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world.
(06:47):
We were talking about how this election cycle is causing people to just absolutely go baddy.
Right.
Yes.
A lot of anxiety.
People are losing their marbles over this.
For the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Verse 27.
At that time they will see the son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
(07:10):
When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads because your redemption
is drawing near.
Then Jesus goes into the parable about the fig tree telling us we're supposed to be able
to recognize these things as believers when they happen.
Verse 32.
No, scratch that.
Verse 34.
Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and anxieties.
(07:40):
And so Jesus is talking about anxiety and how people are going to medicate the mental
torment that causes them.
Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation that is behavior that
is unhealthy that you're using to cope with stress and anxiety.
(08:05):
Dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life and that day will close on you unexpectedly
like a trap.
So Jesus is telling us to be able to recognize the fig tree and the signs.
But then there's going to be people who allow themselves to get overwhelmed with anxiety.
Why?
Because they have not fed on a healthy diet of the word of God.
(08:31):
I mean that's just the bottom line.
They have not been in training for godliness.
And so the anxiety is going to catch those people like a trap and they're going to get
in trouble.
It will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
(08:53):
Be always on watch and pray that you may be able to escape what is about to happen.
And that you may be able to stand before the son of man.
Wow.
Yes.
So if we're not anxious enough about present times we can think about future times.
(09:15):
We won't be adequately prepared.
You're going to have a trap.
You're a sitting duck is what Jesus is saying.
For a trap to be sprung on you and you'll be in trouble.
Yeah.
Well it is frightening.
I think anytime where well not that anything really is in our control but it seems to be
(09:38):
in a controlled environment and then it isn't.
Right.
That brings an unsettling or unrest about where things are going.
How that's going to happen.
What does that mean to me?
All of those ifs start pouring in just as that anxiety becomes worry becomes fear becomes
(10:00):
dread becomes and and and he is saying are you going to trust me during this time?
Are you going to believe what I've told you?
Because I'm telling you what's coming.
So are you going to trust me that it's not out of my control?
(10:20):
That's right.
We can already see some major calamities on the horizon.
We don't need to go rehearse those but Jesus gives us a promise here to place our hope
on.
So he is talking about all of these calamities are come are going to come upon the face of
(10:41):
the whole earth.
Be always on the watch and pray right that you may be able to escape all that is about
to happen.
So there it is.
That's a promise.
This is these bad things are going to happen but there's an out.
(11:05):
If you're watching and praying watching I'm keeping my mind focused on the things of God
praying I'm asking for heaven to release supernatural power into my circumstances and you will be
able to escape these things.
Wow that's great.
We need that little hope in there.
(11:26):
And it's instructions.
It's instructions.
So you know I'm teaching a class on revelation right now.
I've done this class 10 20 different times and people always say the same thing.
I'm just so scared.
(11:46):
You know yes and there are some scary things in there.
But one of the things I point out when I teach that class is a very small portion of the
disastrous things written about in the revelation in revelation are going to affect believers
a small minority of the things affect believers.
(12:09):
The majority of that is directed at the Antichrist and those aligned with Antichrist.
And so it shouldn't cause us to be afraid.
It's an instruction manual for how we partner with God in reclaiming the nations of the
earth.
OK.
(12:29):
So what are the things that will affect believers.
So the book of Revelation describes God's plan to hand the keys of the nations to his
son Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is returning to the earth to take over the governments of the earth.
(12:52):
They are currently under Satan's control and the book of Revelation is about the war that
is going to occur between those two competing interests.
So God is going to pour out his wrath on Antichrist and those aligned with Antichrist.
The Antichrist is going to pour out his wrath on believers and the Jewish church.
(13:18):
So the church and the Jewish people will suffer the wrath of Antichrist.
The church will be partnering with God through prayer in releasing the wrath of God on the
Antichrist and his armies.
So it will be a war over the governments of planet earth.
OK.
For the new kingdom.
(13:38):
I've heard you say the new kingdom where Jesus will be reigning is going to take place.
With resurrected believers.
OK.
Yeah.
And that is of course something we will have never seen before.
So it's hard to imagine what that will look like beyond what we read about here.
(14:05):
It's hard to get your mind around that.
That's right.
What will it look like?
But you know we were discussing before the podcast how we can look back in history which
is recorded in the Bible and other places about how whenever major prophetic events
were manifest on the earth there are some common things that happen.
(14:26):
So with one of the first ones you have the so you've had the dispersion of the Jewish
people.
Jerusalem has been captured and destroyed by Babylon and God has promised in the book
of Jeremiah that dispersion will last for 70 years.
OK.
(14:47):
Daniel knows about this and so Daniel knows those 70 years are up.
And so in Daniel chapter 9 Daniel fasts for three weeks and he prays and he's praying
a prayer of repentance over the unfaithfulness of the Jewish people.
He's praying.
He's reminding.
Well he's not reminding God he's just recognizing before God that 70 years is up and he's asking
(15:10):
God when are you going to fulfill your promise.
And so that's whenever Daniel receives this revelation.
God sends an angel.
And so all these angels are appearing to Daniel and he's having these supernatural encounters
because he is in a prophetic season.
God is about to restore the Jewish people to their homeland and rebuild the second temple.
(15:34):
This is a major historical prophetic event.
And so there's all this supernatural activity around this occurring.
Now at the same time in the books of Nehemiah and Haggai where they're actually working
to restore the city of Jerusalem and prepare to rebuild the second temple there's literal
(15:55):
war going on to try and keep that from happening.
OK.
Right.
So supernatural encounters are ramped up and you see literal war is happening to try and
keep these prophetic things from happening.
OK.
OK.
You will see the same thing before the first coming of Jesus Christ.
(16:18):
I told you the Jewish historian Josephus said that there was literal civil war between the
Pharisees and Sadducees.
And he says all of Israel was walking in madness.
People were going crazy kind of like they are now.
Because in the spirit world things are getting stirred up and that's affecting people on
(16:39):
the earth.
And so there was a group of people called the Zadok priesthood who was instructed by
the Holy Spirit to flee from Jerusalem.
They knew this not just from the Holy Spirit but from writings in prophetic scripture to
flee to Egypt which is what they did.
(17:01):
And they took the temple library with them and they built a second temple in Egypt.
OK.
Now at the first coming of Jesus we have all of these supernatural encounters with angels
appearing to shepherds and the shepherds see heaven and this choir of angels singing.
(17:21):
We all know the Christmas story.
OK.
So there is a heightened manifestation of supernatural occurrences that produce difficult
circumstances on the earth like King Herod decides he's going to try and kill all of
(17:41):
the children two years and younger.
Right.
Right.
So these things in the supernatural this prophetic cycle is manifesting this anti-Christ behavior
that is literally coming on the earth.
Now how did when it talks about pray that you would be able to escape.
Do you remember how Jesus was able to escape from here.
(18:02):
Yes.
An angel came to Joseph and said take your wife and child and go into Africa continent
of Africa Egypt.
They have a supernatural instruction from God but they also have they're given strength
to escape natural means that allowed them to make that happen.
(18:25):
Do you remember what that was.
The census is why they're there.
Do you mean the census.
No they were actually provided some very valuable resources.
Oh from the three wise men.
There you go.
Yeah.
The three gifts.
So you have these wise men who are who know something prophetic is happening based upon
(18:48):
their studies.
They're not even Christians or Jews they're pagans but they know from their studies they're
in a prophetic cycle.
OK.
And so they bring these gifts to this kingdom that's been born and those gifts are what
funded Jesus Mary and Joseph's stay in of all places Egypt Egypt the same place where
(19:16):
the Zadok priests had escaped and began discipling and forming communities hundreds of years
earlier is where Jesus sent his son to be protected from the rage of Antichrist.
He was given strength to escape both supernatural and natural strength to escape to come out
(19:39):
from underneath the wrath of an Antichrist figure.
So you look at those pictures in history God's going to do that same kind of thing again.
You know but it's tied to being strengthened on the word of God.
First of all being open to the supernatural realm the supernatural manifestations of God
(19:59):
and the Holy Spirit the gifts of the Holy Spirit these types of things and being prepared
to escape by being obedient to what the Holy Spirit instructs us to do.
These are critical for the church to be in training in these things right now.
(20:23):
You know I just came out with an article today that I'm going to cover in tonight's class
about the timing of the rapture and how so many people are counting on being raptured
out of here.
Right before any of this happens.
That's what we hope for.
This is going to be a very difficult article for those types of people to read.
(20:45):
I would suggest you read it as well.
I will.
Because the Bible very clearly teaches and I showed you some of the verses.
You did.
Immediately Matthew 24 verse 25 I believe immediately after the tribulation of those
(21:09):
days the sun will be darkened and then the son of man will appear and gather his elect.
So that teaches the exact same thing in Mark 13.
And I read you the verse from 1st Thessalonians Paul assumed he would be alive with his Gentile
(21:29):
churches at the coming of the Lord.
He assumed they would have to face the Antichrist.
And I will say this there are zero verses of scripture that teach a pre tribulation
rapture of the church.
Zero.
You know that's like you had said it's something I think we hope for because you would like
(21:56):
to miss all all of the all of the pieces that are uncomfortable or fearful or that are about
to take place because we know we will be persecuted.
And so who wants to say oh yeah.
Yeah.
But it even amongst the learned religious leaders like yourself and others there's still
(22:25):
controversy around that timeline isn't there.
There is.
And not just from people who think we're going to be raptured out of here but from people
who don't think any of this applies to the church at all.
All of this was fulfilled in the first 300 years of the church.
You know which I was reading a good and honestly probably amongst the intelligentsia of Christendom
(22:50):
that that idea holds more merit than the idea of a pre tribulation rapture.
They make fun of that idea.
So they they kind of look down their nose and call them left behind Christians you know.
But they've got a very glaring problem said themselves.
Jesus explicitly teaches in Matthew 24 this will be a time of trouble that has never been
(23:14):
seen before nor will it be seen after.
Right.
And so applied to the Jewish people whenever Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. and they
think that fulfilled Bible prophecy and it was very bad.
It was horrific.
And so they think that Bible prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. well they've got a little
(23:39):
problem don't they.
Because there's this thing called the Jewish Holocaust.
That happened much.
Yeah.
Right.
I was just wondering about that.
I mean the Jewish people were the only ones who had the right to be in the Holocaust.
So I would say both of those positions have their problem.
But I go back to the testimony of the early church fathers in the first 300 years of the
(24:01):
church.
How would they have interpreted these passages and they were unanimous.
Every single early church father believed the church would face the Antichrist.
The idea of a pre tribulation rapture does not come up until the late 1800s.
So in that viewpoint where does the rapture occur?
(24:26):
Before this they would say the rapture occurs before Antichrist establishes himself as God
which starts the three and a half year great tribulation.
OK.
Yeah.
The church is raptured before that happens.
So I think it's kind of hard to pin it down because it's just based upon somebody's personal
(24:48):
opinion you can't exegete any scripture you know to teach that.
So there's you'll probably find differences of opinion on that.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So where do you believe we are you placing the rapture on the time in the article I released
today the timing of the rapture.
I will argue from scripture that I believe the rapture of the church the resurrection
(25:14):
from the dead and the return of Jesus Christ are simultaneous and it happens 30 days before
the Antichrist is destroyed.
It's called and this is called a pre wrath rapture of the church position.
So the wrath of God is poured out on the Antichrist and his armies in a process that lasts for
(25:36):
30 days.
The church is with Jesus in the air as he is doing this before his return where he sets
his feet on the Mount of Olives.
OK.
So yeah it can all it all kind of is occurring from what you're saying simultaneously some
(25:59):
of that or no.
So the return of Jesus Christ the resurrection from the dead and the rapture are simultaneous.
OK.
So the defeat of Antichrist and his armies is a process.
It's a war.
OK.
OK.
The Battle of Armageddon is the final battle of a war by where Jesus is destroying the
(26:23):
armies of Antichrist which is comprised of the nations or the governments of the earth.
So there's going to be a massive military operation to try and keep Jesus from taking
over the governments of the earth.
And that will be a 30 day war but where the wrath of God is being poured out on his enemies
but the church is with Jesus as he's doing this.
(26:45):
OK.
So so that's a process.
OK.
So then then when Jesus returns then the millennial will begin.
And I would say that if you were deciphering from Ezekiel Daniel Revelation the prophetic
(27:09):
content in there there will be a marriage supper of the lamb a big party that last.
The banquet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Several months.
And this would have been common in the ancient world.
It would it would not have been uncommon for a king to throw a big party that lasted for
months.
So the marriage supper of the lamb will be a big party celebrating the inauguration of
(27:30):
the kingdom.
But the inauguration happens at the end of that party.
So yeah.
So the things that people are saying have already that have happened in the past that
have that are fulfilling the end which you're saying that is not then are those things a
(27:50):
foreshadowing absolutely to come.
Absolutely.
And that is to give us a picture of how God fulfills prophecy and how people can partner
with him and what he is wanting to accomplish on the earth.
This is why studying Bible prophecy is so important.
People who make jokes like well I heard a pre millennial list I heard a pan.
(28:14):
I've heard a post millennial list.
I heard I heard of this that and the other.
I'm a pan millennialist.
I just believe it will all pan out in the end.
I'm like that is so stupid and foolish to say things like that.
You know and it's contagious.
Other people will will will buy into it.
(28:35):
And that's why that joke gets so much traction.
But it is a picture of how God will literally fulfill prophecy within the events of history
and how people can be aware of what is written and partner with God as he's doing these things
and escape the big trouble whenever it happens.
(29:00):
OK.
So thinking about the word being a sword which we were talking about earlier that we can
use Bible verses to help us but also the history that we read about can also help us to to
know to see what God has done in the past that has helped civilizations or people get
(29:28):
through tribulations of their own through his intervention support and that should be
reassuring for us.
So it's a sword but it's also a foundation I guess I would try to say of knowledge that
(29:49):
we need to be equipped with.
Right.
I guess I'm thinking it's two things.
It is.
So the the word of God is a spiritual weapon and it's explicitly taught that that with
the prayer of the saints is a weapon in God's hands and it's also a playbook.
(30:10):
So let's say you're going into war or like we'll say a football game.
OK.
You're going to have an offensive and defensive playbook.
You need to know the plays.
You need to know your opponent's plays.
Well the Bible gives us both sets of instructions.
If we know the playbook we will be able to partner with God and be victorious whenever
the game begins.
(30:32):
You know.
Yeah.
So it's a weapon in the sense that it is a key to victory.
You know.
Yeah.
But that's very reassuring and we have it here and it's with us and if we don't know
what it says we have no one to blame but ourselves.
That's correct.
Absolutely.
(30:52):
Myself included.
In that statement.
But it is reassuring though because because we do.
It's such a powerful book.
Even if I read a book about this book.
Yes.
It doesn't have the power that this book has as being the word of God.
(31:15):
But the power of that other book is that it helps you understand this more clearly.
Absolutely.
Right.
Yes.
So that's.
I've heard that it's like I've encountered some powerful things reading those other books
because they shed light on something in here that I didn't understand correctly.
You know.
Yeah.
And then the end of times are very confusing.
(31:36):
Yes.
Anyway.
Yes.
So it's good to know though that we have.
We have God with us as believers and that he will whatever that looks like he will be
there.
And he is in control.
(31:57):
And like from the stories that we told not only will he be there he will be there and
manifest in a way we may never have seen before.
So we can expect him to manifest himself in heightened ways.
Wow.
And he will be even more present than he is in you know normal times.
(32:18):
Wow.
So yeah that'd be awesome.
Amen.
All right.
Well is that it.
I think so.
I think so.
Thank you for that.
And like you know we say we start these conversations we never know where they're going to go.
I said but I was like you know what we'll start this conversation and it's just going
to be what it's supposed to be.
Yes.
I think it was.
(32:39):
Yes I do too.
So good work team.
Thank you.
All right.
We'll catch you next time.
OK.
Thanks.
Thank you.
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