September 11, 2024 • 53 mins
Ross and Kendall discuss various strategies to help us grow in our ability to better understand the Bible
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
All right, Ross, welcome back.
(00:11):
Thank you.
We had a good conversation yesterday.
And I know this is going to be of benefit to a lot of people because we're going to
be discussing the Bible today, right?
Yes, sir.
You had some things you wanted to discuss about the Bible?
Yes.
So, I know that Jesus didn't speak English.
(00:32):
I know that the prophets didn't speak English.
So I was wondering, and I know what I've been taught over the years and just kind of wanted
your input and your guidance on understanding the Bible.
We read a translated Bible and that reality, especially living in a state where Spanish
(01:01):
and English are the sanctioned languages, but that reality implies a lot of different
things and I kind of wanted for you to enlighten and give some guidance to me and those watching
the podcast about how we understand the Bible.
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One thing I talked about is a lot of our Bibles have Jesus's words in red.
There are oftentimes some italicized pieces in those scriptures.
And then, you know, we've probably got 200 different versions.
I think one that you favor is the English Standard Version.
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One that everybody's very familiar with is the King James, but there's a New King James,
there's, you know, American Revised Standard, NIV.
There's so many different versions.
And so, as we try not to be as religious, but to be more spiritual and understanding
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the Word of God, just some guidance on, I guess, literal translations.
And I think there's some Bibles that aren't word for word translations, but they're more
phrases.
Just some guidance from our under shepherd.
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So you touched on, you know, Jesus didn't speak English and the Old Testament wasn't
written in English.
Let's take that a step further.
Think about how much the English language has changed over the past 10 years.
Then think about how much the English language has changed over the past 500 years, like
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going back to the King James Version.
Who can understand that?
You know?
And it's written in English.
And so you've got the Bible that's written over the course of thousands of years.
And so even though, say, the New Testament was written in Greek, well, the Greek language
changes just like the English language does.
And then the Old Testament is written in a few different languages, Aramaic, portions
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of it, mostly Hebrew.
Languages evolve.
So this makes it extremely challenging to interpret the Hebrew language and what it's
trying to communicate.
You know, what was in the mind of the author?
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And then translate that into English.
And then the English needs to be updated every now and then because the way we communicate
and express ideas, it evolves, right?
So this is an extremely challenging and nuanced objective to communicate what is written in
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ancient texts to the modern mind.
And then, so that's exegesis.
What does the Bible say?
And then there's hermeneutics.
Now that we know what that says, what does that mean?
And those are two different tasks.
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You know?
So this is something that requires a lot of skill development at doing without getting
it to, you know, a lot of the weird and oppressive ideas that Christians sometimes communicate,
the church sometimes communicate that really does not produce pure religion.
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It produces a rules-based religion.
You know?
So this is an extremely important topic and all of those things that you brought up will,
you know, warrant some unpacking.
Yes.
Right?
But one of the things I wanted to promote early on, because after our conversation yesterday,
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I was thinking, okay, what's going to be useful at helping people grow in their skill at understanding
the Bible?
So I used to teach Old Testament, New Testament and comparative religions at West Texas A&M
University.
And for my Bible classes, I always assigned this book, How to Read the Bible for All It's
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Worth.
Okay.
Who's the author?
Gordon Fee and Douglas Stewart.
Okay.
This will give, it's not an easy read.
It's not necessarily a particularly hard read.
It's written for a popular audience, so it's not just written for like academic settings.
(06:02):
Okay.
But it will give your average person some very useful skills at how do I think about
what I'm reading in the Bible.
One of the reasons people get frustrated with reading the Bible is it's so hard to understand.
And then I don't really necessarily know what to do with this information that the Bible
is giving me.
So I'll just skip this and try and get to the parts that give me warm fuzzy feelings.
(06:25):
Okay.
Right?
So I highly recommend this book and it is worth working your way through this.
Okay.
Just while we're on book recommendations, commentaries are extremely helpful at understanding
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what we're reading.
Finding good commentaries is very challenging.
So I can, I'm going to give you a recommendation on just the gospels.
If your average Christian just worked at understanding the gospels, that's a big part of developing
their faith.
And really it'll help you understand the rest of the Bible for that matter.
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So I can unreservedly recommend these gospel commentaries.
It's a series.
So they've got one on each of the gospels.
It's the Moody Gospel Commentary.
I use these for all of the gospels all the time.
It's probably the first commentary that I go to to start helping me think about what
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I'm reading in the gospels.
It is not academic, so it's readable, but it's not fluffy either.
It deals with substantive ideas just in a language that's easy to read and digest.
And so I think these are outstanding commentaries.
I think every Christian who wants to grow in their understanding of the Bible would
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do well to invest in these four commentaries.
And that's just a good place to start, you know, because you're going to need help.
Right.
You know, I mean, I've been doing this for, I've been studying the Bible for 30 years.
And I still realize how much help I need understanding and thinking about what I'm reading, you know.
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That's a good starting point.
And so I'll kind of, that's my starting point.
And I'll let you kind of think about where you want to go next from there.
With that being said, and I think you said something very, very important and profound.
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Finding good commentaries is very, very challenging.
Why is that?
Is it because the orientation of the author of the commentary is important because there
are different schools of thought, there are different points of reference?
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Why is it that finding a good commentary is so challenging?
Critics who are the ones who write commentaries are in, they're embedded in modern secular
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institutions and they have to be very careful about saying things that can't be criticized
because that's how they build their reputation.
So there's a certain element of that coming into play.
And so within the Western school of thought where we want to criticize anything that smacks
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of supernaturalism, being, believing in myths, being simple minded, you know, there's a tendency
to want to reduce the supernatural elements of the Bible amongst academics.
And so even outside of that, you're going to have people commenting on the text from
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a certain theological perspective.
And that's something that everyone does.
We bring our own biases and presuppositions to the text.
And so many times commentaries are written from a theological perspective within a theological
tradition because people who publish Christian books are funded and supported by institutions,
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you know, and they're going to want to promote ideas and ways of thinking that support their
brand.
And so you have to be able to kind of wade through a lot of that.
And you know, I can point out commentaries like on Revelation.
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Of all the controversial ideas, Revelation is probably one of the most controversial
set of ideas that has a plethora of different means of interpretation.
So I have to have a lot of commentaries on Revelation to help me think about this book
from a lot of different perspectives.
You know, and I'll take a commentary on Revelation and I deal with the overall perspective or
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I disagree with the overall perspective of the author, but he's going to say some very
important things that help me think about maybe a particular aspect of the book of Revelation
that I need to hear.
So it's that's why commentaries are so difficult and really study Bibles aren't much better.
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You know, and you know, as a Bible teacher, it's frustrating to be teaching something.
And one of the notes in the study Bible contradicts what you say.
It's like you realize that note isn't the Bible, right?
Right.
Yes.
You know, so that's why it's so finding a good commentary is so challenging.
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And then having a commentary that's actually saying useful things.
That's why I recommend that Moody commentary series.
Finding in those commentaries I find useful.
It's not just spouting off on these minutiae details that don't really help me understand
the passage much.
You know, when you say Moody, is that the movie Moody Bible Institute?
(12:42):
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
And I'm not recommending all their commentaries, just this.
Okay.
This gospel series, the Moody gospel commentary.
Okay.
So.
So with that being said, something that I forgot earlier, and I think you've shared
it from the pulpit, the Apocrypha and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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Can you just kind of, for the lay person, what's our biggest takeaway from the Apocrypha
and the Dead Sea Scrolls?
And I did a little research on both of those, but I think you, I'm sure you're going to
cover that and give us some more depth.
So if you could talk a little bit about that.
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Yeah.
Those, those documents were very important.
So I'm going to do a little diversion.
I love dropping these facts.
Okay.
They were discovered in 1948.
1948 was a very important year.
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There were three major things, shoes that dropped in 1948.
So on the heels of the end of World War II, you have the establishment of the nation of
Israel.
And it's not just the nation of Israel that was established.
There were several countries that were created.
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The lines of the Middle East were redrawn.
And so a lot of the conflict we're having in the Middle East is a direct result of that
type of meddling.
But that was an important event.
The creation of the nation of Israel, the return of the Jews to their native homeland,
the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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And the last one is going to probably throw you for a loop.
You remember anything else that might have happened in 1948 that is very near and dear
to our hearts here in New Mexico?
The American Spanish Civil War.
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I'm not sure when that happened.
That's stretching my history knowledge.
Okay.
Okay.
The, the Roswell incident.
Oh, okay.
The beginning of the UFO narrative.
Okay.
Also occurred in 1948.
All right.
That's a different, that's a different subject for a different time.
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Right.
But that is not an insignificant.
Okay.
Genesis of a narrative.
Okay.
Okay.
So the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The reason the discovery of those scrolls was so important is because the Bible was
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coming under such heavy criticism within academia as being something that was monkeyed with.
We didn't know how many of those documents had been changed by scribes and theological
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agendas.
You know, this is an idea that was popularized.
If you remember the, the book by Dan Brown, the Da Vinci Code, remember that book in those
movies and it was promoting the narrative that people monkeyed with the teaching of
Jesus in the scripture to fit their theological agenda.
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And he would cite things like the Council of Nicaea and people changed the teaching
of Jesus and things like this.
So traditional Christian thinking based upon the pages of scripture was under heavy assault
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by academia.
Okay.
So what the dead, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls function to do more than anything
else is illustrate the Bible that we have is the Bible that we were, that was received
by the original authors.
Yes.
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The information we have is correct.
So for instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls were, they predate Christianity, right?
And so they're all Jewish documents.
And so we found portions of Isaiah, for instance, and the only thing that function to do is
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validate what we have is what they received.
It has not been changed.
And how they understood and even more importantly, how these faithful Jewish stewards of this
information, the thinking that they had about their religion is what is transmitted by Jesus
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and John the Baptist and the early New Testament authors.
So they didn't create a new religion.
They were correctly interpreting the religion that was expressed in the pages of the Old
Testament.
Yes.
And so it's just preserving and validating and affirming a way of thinking about God
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and what he has revealed in scripture.
And that perspective has been retained in the pages of scripture and transmitted through
the traditions of the church.
Yes.
And this is kind of off the wall, but there's a movie starring Denzel Washington where he
was the one who was preserving the Bible and he was under attack.
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They were searching for him, trying to kill him.
Is this the Book of Eli?
Yes.
That is a powerful movie.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you've seen that?
I have.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, and that kind of gets me to, I think you were talking about the martyrs in one
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of your scriptures.
Go ahead.
I want to pull out a scene from that movie because that movie illustrates how the Bible
is so divisive and it's used as a weapon to control people in the hands of people who
do not interpret it correctly.
So there's a lunatic, the villain in that movie is a lunatic who refers to the Bible,
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that book, and he says, that book isn't a Bible, it's a weapon.
You know, when improperly interpreted, that book can be used as a weapon of evil.
So which is precisely what the Pharisees did in the New Testament and Jesus calls them.
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You know, they're referred to as snakes and sons of Satan and fools.
Yes.
You know?
Hence why it's so important that we do what Paul was telling Timothy, study to show thyself
approved and workman that need not be ashamed rightly, dividing the word of truth.
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And he tells Timothy, guard your doctrine closely because by it will you not only save
yourself but you will save those that you're put in charge of.
And so it is by our correct thinking and doctrines about the Bible, Paul says directly, that's
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what brings people into a saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
So it is a very important thing.
You know, that's interesting because I grew up in the United Methodist Church and I remember
when I went to war the first time as a 20 year old and, you know, at 20 years old you
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can fight for your country but it's not that you know anything about life or anything.
So I got to Saudi Arabia in my unit and as we were going toward northern Saudi Arabia
and Iraq there were these old deacons that had Bible study every night in a tent.
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And they were soldiers?
Yes, these were all soldiers, yeah.
And I mean we're having church in northern Saudi Arabia before the ground war and, you
know, we didn't have instruments or anything like that.
It was just a Bible and your hand and I mean singing songs and you know somebody's sharing
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the word.
But that's where I accepted Christ as my Savior and I remember it vividly.
I was realizing, I probably shared this in one of our other podcasts, that there was
nothing I could do in my power to get out of a war, of this war.
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Didn't know how to fly an airplane.
If I could I wouldn't be able to refuel it and get back.
So I was literally stuck.
So I'm sure we went in through the Gospels where it says there will be wars and rumors
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of wars.
And that's not, this is not the end of the world.
And the reality of wars and rumors of wars is that people die.
And that's when I said, you know what, God, I accept your will for my life because Jesus
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died for me.
And it doesn't matter to me if I die over here or not.
If it is your will that I perish in this war, then I perish because you are my God.
You are my Lord.
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Jesus redeemed me from destruction.
And not soon after that, I'm not sure how the Holy Spirit communicated to me, but maybe
through visions that, no, you're not going to die in this war.
You're not going to die in a war.
So three wars later, every time I went into combat, my mindset was, no, this is not the
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end.
Do what God needs you to do.
And that's one thing I've learned.
You can be a Christian, you can be like Christ in whatever you're doing.
I think we need anointed people in the military, in the hospitals, in the schools, in the media.
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And now that takes my mind someplace.
When I was growing up, we got the news from Walter Conchright.
And the feeling was it was the news.
not biased, it didn't have a taint. He was the most trusted man in America at one point.
And now, you know, there's an agenda from which news source you go to. And I was told that there
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was a lawsuit not too long ago where one of these news sources made the declaration that
they aren't a news source, they're about entertainment. And they paid so many millions of dollars because
of maybe some mis-sayings or misquotes that they were making in the defense. They just
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said they weren't a news source. So anyway. That's a rare glimpse of honesty, right? It
is. It is. So, guard your doctrine closely. That being said, my pastor back in the early
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90s always used de Stroom's Concordance and would tell us the Hebrew word for this is
such and such. And the Greek word for this is such and such. So, again, I've had this
for 30 years. I went and bought a Stroom's Concordance so that when I had questions about
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a word that was pivotal, say in a particular verse of scripture, I could look it up in
Strong's and understand where that word was translated from. So that kind of gets you
into, was this Jesus speaking? Why is this italicized? I guess italics means added by
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privilege of the translator who understands the culture, understands the language. It's
more interpretive than it is a translation. Okay. So can you get us into that, the word
translation and then those versions of the Bible that are kind of translates phrases,
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if you will? So you have a spectrum of Bible translations. Okay. You have got what's called,
I'm not exactly sure the vocabulary, a free translation, an interpretive translation.
So things like the message, the new living translation, these are interpretive and the
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goal is to communicate the concepts in a very understandable, easy to read format. Now,
I would say the new living translation is a good translation because they have a team
of scholars who are doing it. The message is an interpretation by one person. He's a
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good person, Eugene Peterson. But whenever you have a team working together to kind of
debate things, you're going to get something that's more trustworthy, in my opinion. So
something like the new living translation is going to be a solid free translation. Then
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you've got what's called a dynamic equivalence. It tries to strike the balance from communicating
what the text originally said and making it readable and understandable to the modern
reader. So something like the NIV, okay, which is a good translation, is attempting to strike
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that balance. And there are other translations as well. The United Methodist denomination
used to recommend the new revised standard version. And so that's a good translation.
And then you have what's called a more literal translation of the text. The goal is to simply
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communicate what the text said in a more direct fashion. And so this is why I like the ESV.
It leans, it is a modern literal translation. So you'd take something like the King James.
That leaned towards a literal translation. The problem with the King James was, was produced
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in the 1500s. They were working off of inferior manuscripts. We've found, going back to the
discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they've also discovered New Testament documents that
are older and better than what the translators of the King James were working from. And so,
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and the original King James makes some blatant errors. So you've got older literal translations
like the American Standard version. Again, these were produced in the early 1900s. And
so I like the ESV because it is a modern, we've got the best manuscripts. We've got
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very high quality scholarship producing a more literal translation of the Bible, which
is what I prefer. And the ESV study Bible, by the way, is a very good study Bible. So
I recommend that to people all the time. Just always understand there's a difference between
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the Bible and the notes at the bottom. Yes. Right? Yes. Yes. And I really, really appreciate
that because that's what my pastor was saying, Pastor Dollar, back in the 90s, that the translator
actually made an error here or they added this, but this was not in the original transcripts.
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And I'm not exactly sure what that translator was thinking. But if you go back to the original
word, it was translated from, you know, that word means, you know, A, B, C. And based upon
how this was translated, it appears that he was thinking that this meant D, E, F, and
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G. And I was like, oh, okay. And so that's why I ended up getting my Strong's so that
I could kind of go back and really let the Holy Spirit speak to your heart and kind of
say, hey, check that. Or, yep, you got it. And I think that's why it's so important.
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And I remember this probably from my grandfather was a pastor, my mother loves it. So the funny
thing is, when my parents were at Purdue, my dad doing his PhD and my mom her masters,
they sent me to my granddaddy. And my granddaddy in South Carolina was a farmer, janitor, and
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a pastor. And he dipped a chew. So anyway, he'd always have this chew. And I'm a baby.
And you tell I'm fair skinned. My granddaddy looked more like my mother. She's very dark.
And so you got this little, you know, high yellow baby in the pulpit with this pastor.
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And my cousins laugh, my older cousins, because they say, well, granddaddy's always spitting
the bottle. And they say sometimes he'd give me the bottle and I would drink from the bottle.
So they thought it was the funniest thing in the world.
But he and I would talk about after Desert Storm, we would talk and I remember telling
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my granddaddy, you know, I've always been in church with you and, you know, been in
church growing up. And I said, the Bible that I'm reading, I'm not reading what I know to
be westernized Christianity. What I'm reading is total submission unto the will of God.
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And he was like, well, son, keep growing. And I said, yes, sir. Yes, sir. And so when
I got back, I remember my pastor, Reverend Outlaw, gave me an opportunity to speak to
the congregation. And those are things that I was sharing that, you know, when I got into
the Bible for myself, I saw a different Christianity than I had been experiencing in the U.S. where,
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you know, it's okay to get drunk. It's okay to go out. It's okay to party versus committing
your life unto Christ versus understanding that we are the redeemed of the Lord. And
my pastor, I just remembered that's why I love Pastor Dollar so much. He would go into
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what is redemption? What does it mean to redeem something? That means that, you know, somebody
paid a price for you. So that reality of you don't belong to you, you belong to him because
he literally died for you. They whipped him with a cat of nine tails. And I remember Pastor
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Dollar would go into the description of what is a cat of nine tails and go into the description
of Roman culture and how they were uber masculine. And, you know, how at the end of that cat
of nine tails, there these, I think there were penny nails and it, you know, the whip
kind of wrapped around you and it, you know, went into the flesh. And then when it came
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out, it's bringing flesh with it. And, you know, those realities like Jesus did that
for me. And it's not hard to come to, no, I belong to him. He paid the price for my
life. And so I remember yesterday we were talking about the Holy Spirit. And now when
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I think back over my life, I just remember so many instances where if the devil could
have killed me or destroyed me, he would have, but he couldn't. And the reality is greater
is he that is on the inside of me than he that is in the world to the point where we
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don't have to fear the devil. We don't have to fear his demons. And so this word, you,
and I think the Bible lays it out beautiful, are the feet of them that prepare or that
preach the gospel of peace. As I just feel so honored to have this opportunity to talk
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to you. And I think this is such a great medium that the body can watch and learn. So thank
you so much. Well, so where else would you like to go with this? I mean, the free translations,
interpretive translations, dynamic equivalents, I understand that the ESV and my mother has
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started reading the ESV and I think it's wonderful.
So just to piggyback off of what you said there, because you were talking about redemption
and the cost of redemption and the connection to the Bible, because the Bible is what communicates
that story and it provides, going back to the Holy, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit,
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the born again person that Jesus Christ creates a new on the inside of me whenever I submit
his Lordship, the Bible provides us with the nutrients, you know, just like going back
to a baby in the bottle. Yes. You've got to feed the baby the proper nutrients so it can
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grow into a strong and healthy person. The Bible provides the believer with the nutrients
by which we grow into strong and powerful people. And you just touched on so many things
there, like greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. And I don't have
to be afraid of death, for instance, which you were in a context where the rubber meets
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the road and really clarifies your priorities in life when you're staring faith, death in
the face. So things like death, things like enemies in the demonic realm that want to
control our minds and emotions. We no longer when we grow to mature men and women of God,
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we get to the point where we don't have to cry out. You know, we become powerful people
that understand we dominate those beings, they don't dominate us. Because I have developed
my spirit, my born again spirit to maturity, I realize how powerful I am. And I am no longer
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intimidated by things out there in the world. You know, so it helps me to discern truth
from error in regards to my own thoughts about my own shortcomings and because my sin is
a real thing. And it's something that I have to learn to bring under the yoke of discipline.
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And so a lot of Christians become hijacked with thoughts of guilt and shame. You know?
So really learning to understand the message of Scripture and the testimony of Jesus Christ
helps us to overcome not only the enemy without but the enemy within. You know? So yes, yes.
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It's so powerful. You know, in regards to the Strong's Concordance,
it's probably smart to keep a hard copy of that. But it's just so easy to use those tools
online. Okay, I was telling you yesterday about a website that I use the Interlinear
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Bible. So stack the original Greek with the English translation. And it has a link to
the Strong's definition right above each word. It is so useful as a resource at understanding
the Bible. If you just Google Interlinear Greek Hebrew Bible.
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Okay, Interlinear Greek Hebrew Bible. Yeah. But I was, I'm always cautious when doing
that because I had a Greek professor when I was in college that said, I hear pastors
all the time telling me that this translation is wrong. And then the original Greek, it
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means this. And he said, of course, this is a made up number. 92% of the time they get
it wrong. So the thing we need to respect is the people who are working on these translations
are actual experts in these fields. And it is being peer reviewed by other experts, because
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they really care about getting it right. You know, they have a they do it with the fear
of God. And so that's why I use the Strong's and things like that to help me understand
concepts that are in the original language that the the English language can't quite
communicate. Okay, you know, I'm not so much trying to change or reinterpret or correct
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the Bible translator so much is just get a deeper meaning. An example of that's like
the word meek. We've got a certain understanding of that in the English language that I bristle
against because my last name is meek. And so people use the word meek to mean weak,
typically in the English language, but it's actually communicating the idea. And if you
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go back and do some of these studies, you can see it's communicating the concept of
like an ox doing work. Okay, the farmer places a harness on the ox to do some work. It's
using the ox's strength to benefit the farmer's family. This is the idea being communicated
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with the word meek. God is placing us under a yoke. Yes. And he intends to harness our
strength for the purpose of bringing something good to the world. Now the ox could easily
break out of that harness and trample the farmer. Yes. Right. Yes. And so the ox is
(41:58):
being meek in being willing to have his strength used by someone else to make something good.
You know, now that's a revelation of the word meek. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And so
that's why when Jesus says, uh, come unto me, all you who are weary and heavy laden,
(42:21):
I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you for my burden is easy and my yoke is light.
Yes. Yeah. Wow. That goodness gracious that, uh, I think that in itself kind of blows me
away that that analogy, um, that's probably the best that's probably ever been, uh, communicated.
(42:48):
And, uh, you know, I'm sure I can't speak for others, but if I could, uh, probably tell
them exactly that because I think that is a revelation of what meekness is. And you
get those treasures out of the scripture whenever you put the effort into being consistent and
(43:08):
diligent at really trying to understand not only what the text says, but then what it
means, you know, now that takes me to this. So, and as you know, I was in a Baptist church
for a long time. Um, and I've been in church all my life. I think I was in Nashville here
at the Antioch missionary Baptist church. And I think the pastor was talking about understanding
(43:33):
the Bible and he said, anybody can read the words. Everybody can read the words. The devil,
the demons can read the words, but they don't understand what's in between the words that
the Holy spirit, you have to have the Holy spirit, um, uh, as your litmus test to understanding
(43:57):
the scriptures, what's your, your thought and your point about that?
Yeah. So within Methodism, we have this tradition, uh, called holiness of heart and mind. Okay.
Okay. So if you over rely on the Holy spirit to help you understand the Bible, it will
(44:22):
drive you to all kinds of fruity and flaky and nutty conclusions. Okay. So I came out
of the charismatic Pentecostal world where I used to hear say, people say all the time,
well, God told me this means this or God told me that. And you know, 90% of the time it
was hogwash, you know, now some of it's real and needs to be respected and cared about.
(44:46):
But so there's the type of person that over relies on the Holy spirit or their intuition
or God told me this means this, you know, not that that's an invalid tool, but you can't
do it at the neglect of developing your mind with study and high quality thinking and,
uh, allowing your ideas to be critiqued by others. A lot of times, super spiritual people,
(45:12):
if they're critiqued by others, they will say, well, that person's just done spiritual
and they, they're not hearing God, you know, it was like, you need to really respect the
criticism that you're offered because it might help you clarify your thoughts and your perspective,
you know? Uh, so we need to be mindful and diligent about cultivating our abilities and
(45:37):
skills in both of those areas and respecting the criticisms that we might be offered, uh,
as maybe being something that helps us to see things in a more mature, well balanced
fashion. So, okay. You know, and then there are people that just study the Bible from
(46:04):
a purely academic point of view and they don't even believe most of the stuff that's in there.
Right. You know what I mean? And so, uh, holiness of heart and mind is something we really need
to retain and press into in our theological tradition as Methodists. God is real. The
(46:27):
supernatural is real. He still speaks to us today. The gifts of the Holy spirit are still
valid and active. That is no excuse for neglecting our mind and training our mind in high quality
principles that accommodate critique, uh, from other perspectives. So without, you know,
(46:57):
labeling them unspiritual or whatever. So, okay. So that's, um, um, very, very good. I think that
adds a lot of balance, um, to what Timothy told Paul study to show that self-approved, a workman
(47:19):
that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. And the thing about this word is
it doesn't change these and the letters of the texts, they don't change the words of the scripture.
They don't change our emotions change. Um, and we are emotional beings, but you've got to go back
(47:43):
to the source, um, because in the beginning was the word, the word was God, the word was with God.
And then a few scripts later, the word became flesh. So our authority has to be the word and
anything that, um, takes us away from the word, uh, we're wrong. You're preaching to the choir here,
(48:13):
brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and at the same time, the beauty of the nature of this unique
book, it is uniquely authoritative in that nothing reveals God like the pages of scripture.
Mm hmm. Now you have to have the power of the Holy Spirit to bring it to life. Uh, but God is
(48:40):
constantly growing our understanding. The Bible doesn't change, but our understanding of what is
written there is improving. Uh, it doesn't change anything that's written there. You know, it's just
our understanding, standing of the implications of what is revealed there is growing and we're
(49:00):
getting better as corrupt as the world is becoming. God is cultivating what the Bible predicts will be
a bride that is pure and spotless and without blemish, you know, holiness of heart and mind
without spot or blemish in our character and our thinking in our ways of relating to the world
(49:25):
around us. That's exciting. Yes. You know? Yes. Yes.
Um, well, what else, uh, would you like to share? I think the, what I'm taking away from this is
the ESV is a good version to, to read, to, to study. Um, do you recommend online or having a,
(49:53):
uh, a copy? Uh, is that maybe just the age thing, young people?
Mostly I've experienced cause you know, it's like most of my library is now electronic.
And one of the reasons is commentaries. If you buy the hard copy or expensive because they take so
many pieces of paper to produce. And it's like less than half the price if you buy them online.
(50:14):
And the other benefit is I've always got my library with me in my pocket, you know? So I'm
pro technology. Uh, you know, it's like the translation of the Bible, that's the best is
the one that you'll read. Yes. Right. And, uh, but yeah, that I, I use the internet a lot because
(50:36):
it is an amazing place to discover high quality thinking and thinkers that help me get better
at understanding what's written in that book. You know, now of course you can find all kinds
of bad things as well on the internet, but that doesn't change the fact. Right. I use the internet
(50:58):
to produce my content, to help people take steps forward in their faith. And it's an amazing tool
for me to help spread my message. Right. So, uh, but I, I've always been technology, a technology
friendly person. Okay. Yeah. I mean, obviously we've got a room full of lights and cameras and
stuff like that. So, yes, but well, the pastor, I think that's a great introduction and I've gained
(51:24):
a lot from it and I appreciate it. And I think it's digestible enough for the, the lay person to
kind of understand. And so thank you for taking the time forward and forward to going back and
rereading it and re-listening to it and applying that holiness of heart and mind. Uh, so, oh man,
(51:50):
that, that's so important. And then your, uh, revelatory explanation of, uh, uh, meek and, uh,
uh, uh, God's yoke. That's, that's incredible. Okay. So thank you. And I'll end with this.
This is one of my favorite verses. It's from the book of Proverbs. Okay. And it's in regards to
(52:14):
the information hidden in the pages of that book. It's the glory of God to conceal a matter.
It's the glory of Kings to search them out. And so ultimately that's what, you know, two guys like
you and me are sitting here doing. We're searching, we're searching out the mysteries of God together
(52:34):
and it is producing greatness in our minds and hearts. And that's what happens when every person
engages in that process. So thank you for coming in and, uh, and doing this with me. Yes, sir.
All right. God bless you. Blessings to you.
All right, Ross, welcome back.
(00:11):
Thank you.
We had a good conversation yesterday.
And I know this is going to be of benefit to a lot of people because we're going to
be discussing the Bible today, right?
Yes, sir.
You had some things you wanted to discuss about the Bible?
Yes.
So, I know that Jesus didn't speak English.
(00:32):
I know that the prophets didn't speak English.
So I was wondering, and I know what I've been taught over the years and just kind of wanted
your input and your guidance on understanding the Bible.
We read a translated Bible and that reality, especially living in a state where Spanish
(01:01):
and English are the sanctioned languages, but that reality implies a lot of different
things and I kind of wanted for you to enlighten and give some guidance to me and those watching
the podcast about how we understand the Bible.
(01:22):
One thing I talked about is a lot of our Bibles have Jesus's words in red.
There are oftentimes some italicized pieces in those scriptures.
And then, you know, we've probably got 200 different versions.
I think one that you favor is the English Standard Version.
(01:46):
One that everybody's very familiar with is the King James, but there's a New King James,
there's, you know, American Revised Standard, NIV.
There's so many different versions.
And so, as we try not to be as religious, but to be more spiritual and understanding
(02:09):
the Word of God, just some guidance on, I guess, literal translations.
And I think there's some Bibles that aren't word for word translations, but they're more
phrases.
Just some guidance from our under shepherd.
(02:30):
So you touched on, you know, Jesus didn't speak English and the Old Testament wasn't
written in English.
Let's take that a step further.
Think about how much the English language has changed over the past 10 years.
Then think about how much the English language has changed over the past 500 years, like
(02:54):
going back to the King James Version.
Who can understand that?
You know?
And it's written in English.
And so you've got the Bible that's written over the course of thousands of years.
And so even though, say, the New Testament was written in Greek, well, the Greek language
changes just like the English language does.
And then the Old Testament is written in a few different languages, Aramaic, portions
(03:19):
of it, mostly Hebrew.
Languages evolve.
So this makes it extremely challenging to interpret the Hebrew language and what it's
trying to communicate.
You know, what was in the mind of the author?
(03:41):
And then translate that into English.
And then the English needs to be updated every now and then because the way we communicate
and express ideas, it evolves, right?
So this is an extremely challenging and nuanced objective to communicate what is written in
(04:10):
ancient texts to the modern mind.
And then, so that's exegesis.
What does the Bible say?
And then there's hermeneutics.
Now that we know what that says, what does that mean?
And those are two different tasks.
(04:31):
You know?
So this is something that requires a lot of skill development at doing without getting
it to, you know, a lot of the weird and oppressive ideas that Christians sometimes communicate,
the church sometimes communicate that really does not produce pure religion.
(04:55):
It produces a rules-based religion.
You know?
So this is an extremely important topic and all of those things that you brought up will,
you know, warrant some unpacking.
Yes.
Right?
But one of the things I wanted to promote early on, because after our conversation yesterday,
(05:17):
I was thinking, okay, what's going to be useful at helping people grow in their skill at understanding
the Bible?
So I used to teach Old Testament, New Testament and comparative religions at West Texas A&M
University.
And for my Bible classes, I always assigned this book, How to Read the Bible for All It's
(05:41):
Worth.
Okay.
Who's the author?
Gordon Fee and Douglas Stewart.
Okay.
This will give, it's not an easy read.
It's not necessarily a particularly hard read.
It's written for a popular audience, so it's not just written for like academic settings.
(06:02):
Okay.
But it will give your average person some very useful skills at how do I think about
what I'm reading in the Bible.
One of the reasons people get frustrated with reading the Bible is it's so hard to understand.
And then I don't really necessarily know what to do with this information that the Bible
is giving me.
So I'll just skip this and try and get to the parts that give me warm fuzzy feelings.
(06:25):
Okay.
Right?
So I highly recommend this book and it is worth working your way through this.
Okay.
Just while we're on book recommendations, commentaries are extremely helpful at understanding
(06:47):
what we're reading.
Finding good commentaries is very challenging.
So I can, I'm going to give you a recommendation on just the gospels.
If your average Christian just worked at understanding the gospels, that's a big part of developing
their faith.
And really it'll help you understand the rest of the Bible for that matter.
(07:11):
So I can unreservedly recommend these gospel commentaries.
It's a series.
So they've got one on each of the gospels.
It's the Moody Gospel Commentary.
I use these for all of the gospels all the time.
It's probably the first commentary that I go to to start helping me think about what
(07:35):
I'm reading in the gospels.
It is not academic, so it's readable, but it's not fluffy either.
It deals with substantive ideas just in a language that's easy to read and digest.
And so I think these are outstanding commentaries.
I think every Christian who wants to grow in their understanding of the Bible would
(07:59):
do well to invest in these four commentaries.
And that's just a good place to start, you know, because you're going to need help.
Right.
You know, I mean, I've been doing this for, I've been studying the Bible for 30 years.
And I still realize how much help I need understanding and thinking about what I'm reading, you know.
(08:24):
That's a good starting point.
And so I'll kind of, that's my starting point.
And I'll let you kind of think about where you want to go next from there.
With that being said, and I think you said something very, very important and profound.
(08:47):
Finding good commentaries is very, very challenging.
Why is that?
Is it because the orientation of the author of the commentary is important because there
are different schools of thought, there are different points of reference?
(09:09):
Why is it that finding a good commentary is so challenging?
Critics who are the ones who write commentaries are in, they're embedded in modern secular
(09:31):
institutions and they have to be very careful about saying things that can't be criticized
because that's how they build their reputation.
So there's a certain element of that coming into play.
And so within the Western school of thought where we want to criticize anything that smacks
(09:58):
of supernaturalism, being, believing in myths, being simple minded, you know, there's a tendency
to want to reduce the supernatural elements of the Bible amongst academics.
And so even outside of that, you're going to have people commenting on the text from
(10:25):
a certain theological perspective.
And that's something that everyone does.
We bring our own biases and presuppositions to the text.
And so many times commentaries are written from a theological perspective within a theological
tradition because people who publish Christian books are funded and supported by institutions,
(10:48):
you know, and they're going to want to promote ideas and ways of thinking that support their
brand.
And so you have to be able to kind of wade through a lot of that.
And you know, I can point out commentaries like on Revelation.
(11:10):
Of all the controversial ideas, Revelation is probably one of the most controversial
set of ideas that has a plethora of different means of interpretation.
So I have to have a lot of commentaries on Revelation to help me think about this book
from a lot of different perspectives.
You know, and I'll take a commentary on Revelation and I deal with the overall perspective or
(11:36):
I disagree with the overall perspective of the author, but he's going to say some very
important things that help me think about maybe a particular aspect of the book of Revelation
that I need to hear.
So it's that's why commentaries are so difficult and really study Bibles aren't much better.
(11:57):
You know, and you know, as a Bible teacher, it's frustrating to be teaching something.
And one of the notes in the study Bible contradicts what you say.
It's like you realize that note isn't the Bible, right?
Right.
Yes.
You know, so that's why it's so finding a good commentary is so challenging.
(12:20):
And then having a commentary that's actually saying useful things.
That's why I recommend that Moody commentary series.
Finding in those commentaries I find useful.
It's not just spouting off on these minutiae details that don't really help me understand
the passage much.
You know, when you say Moody, is that the movie Moody Bible Institute?
(12:42):
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
And I'm not recommending all their commentaries, just this.
Okay.
This gospel series, the Moody gospel commentary.
Okay.
So.
So with that being said, something that I forgot earlier, and I think you've shared
it from the pulpit, the Apocrypha and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
(13:07):
Can you just kind of, for the lay person, what's our biggest takeaway from the Apocrypha
and the Dead Sea Scrolls?
And I did a little research on both of those, but I think you, I'm sure you're going to
cover that and give us some more depth.
So if you could talk a little bit about that.
(13:31):
Yeah.
Those, those documents were very important.
So I'm going to do a little diversion.
I love dropping these facts.
Okay.
They were discovered in 1948.
1948 was a very important year.
(13:51):
There were three major things, shoes that dropped in 1948.
So on the heels of the end of World War II, you have the establishment of the nation of
Israel.
And it's not just the nation of Israel that was established.
There were several countries that were created.
(14:13):
The lines of the Middle East were redrawn.
And so a lot of the conflict we're having in the Middle East is a direct result of that
type of meddling.
But that was an important event.
The creation of the nation of Israel, the return of the Jews to their native homeland,
the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
(14:38):
And the last one is going to probably throw you for a loop.
You remember anything else that might have happened in 1948 that is very near and dear
to our hearts here in New Mexico?
The American Spanish Civil War.
(15:00):
I'm not sure when that happened.
That's stretching my history knowledge.
Okay.
Okay.
The, the Roswell incident.
Oh, okay.
The beginning of the UFO narrative.
Okay.
Also occurred in 1948.
All right.
That's a different, that's a different subject for a different time.
(15:22):
Right.
But that is not an insignificant.
Okay.
Genesis of a narrative.
Okay.
Okay.
So the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The reason the discovery of those scrolls was so important is because the Bible was
(15:43):
coming under such heavy criticism within academia as being something that was monkeyed with.
We didn't know how many of those documents had been changed by scribes and theological
(16:07):
agendas.
You know, this is an idea that was popularized.
If you remember the, the book by Dan Brown, the Da Vinci Code, remember that book in those
movies and it was promoting the narrative that people monkeyed with the teaching of
Jesus in the scripture to fit their theological agenda.
(16:30):
And he would cite things like the Council of Nicaea and people changed the teaching
of Jesus and things like this.
So traditional Christian thinking based upon the pages of scripture was under heavy assault
(16:50):
by academia.
Okay.
So what the dead, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls function to do more than anything
else is illustrate the Bible that we have is the Bible that we were, that was received
by the original authors.
Yes.
(17:12):
The information we have is correct.
So for instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls were, they predate Christianity, right?
And so they're all Jewish documents.
And so we found portions of Isaiah, for instance, and the only thing that function to do is
(17:34):
validate what we have is what they received.
It has not been changed.
And how they understood and even more importantly, how these faithful Jewish stewards of this
information, the thinking that they had about their religion is what is transmitted by Jesus
(18:02):
and John the Baptist and the early New Testament authors.
So they didn't create a new religion.
They were correctly interpreting the religion that was expressed in the pages of the Old
Testament.
Yes.
And so it's just preserving and validating and affirming a way of thinking about God
(18:24):
and what he has revealed in scripture.
And that perspective has been retained in the pages of scripture and transmitted through
the traditions of the church.
Yes.
And this is kind of off the wall, but there's a movie starring Denzel Washington where he
was the one who was preserving the Bible and he was under attack.
(18:53):
They were searching for him, trying to kill him.
Is this the Book of Eli?
Yes.
That is a powerful movie.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you've seen that?
I have.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, and that kind of gets me to, I think you were talking about the martyrs in one
(19:13):
of your scriptures.
Go ahead.
I want to pull out a scene from that movie because that movie illustrates how the Bible
is so divisive and it's used as a weapon to control people in the hands of people who
do not interpret it correctly.
So there's a lunatic, the villain in that movie is a lunatic who refers to the Bible,
(19:37):
that book, and he says, that book isn't a Bible, it's a weapon.
You know, when improperly interpreted, that book can be used as a weapon of evil.
So which is precisely what the Pharisees did in the New Testament and Jesus calls them.
(20:01):
You know, they're referred to as snakes and sons of Satan and fools.
Yes.
You know?
Hence why it's so important that we do what Paul was telling Timothy, study to show thyself
approved and workman that need not be ashamed rightly, dividing the word of truth.
(20:24):
And he tells Timothy, guard your doctrine closely because by it will you not only save
yourself but you will save those that you're put in charge of.
And so it is by our correct thinking and doctrines about the Bible, Paul says directly, that's
(20:46):
what brings people into a saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
So it is a very important thing.
You know, that's interesting because I grew up in the United Methodist Church and I remember
when I went to war the first time as a 20 year old and, you know, at 20 years old you
(21:10):
can fight for your country but it's not that you know anything about life or anything.
So I got to Saudi Arabia in my unit and as we were going toward northern Saudi Arabia
and Iraq there were these old deacons that had Bible study every night in a tent.
(21:39):
And they were soldiers?
Yes, these were all soldiers, yeah.
And I mean we're having church in northern Saudi Arabia before the ground war and, you
know, we didn't have instruments or anything like that.
It was just a Bible and your hand and I mean singing songs and you know somebody's sharing
(22:00):
the word.
But that's where I accepted Christ as my Savior and I remember it vividly.
I was realizing, I probably shared this in one of our other podcasts, that there was
nothing I could do in my power to get out of a war, of this war.
(22:21):
Didn't know how to fly an airplane.
If I could I wouldn't be able to refuel it and get back.
So I was literally stuck.
So I'm sure we went in through the Gospels where it says there will be wars and rumors
(22:42):
of wars.
And that's not, this is not the end of the world.
And the reality of wars and rumors of wars is that people die.
And that's when I said, you know what, God, I accept your will for my life because Jesus
(23:06):
died for me.
And it doesn't matter to me if I die over here or not.
If it is your will that I perish in this war, then I perish because you are my God.
You are my Lord.
(23:26):
Jesus redeemed me from destruction.
And not soon after that, I'm not sure how the Holy Spirit communicated to me, but maybe
through visions that, no, you're not going to die in this war.
You're not going to die in a war.
So three wars later, every time I went into combat, my mindset was, no, this is not the
(23:55):
end.
Do what God needs you to do.
And that's one thing I've learned.
You can be a Christian, you can be like Christ in whatever you're doing.
I think we need anointed people in the military, in the hospitals, in the schools, in the media.
(24:18):
And now that takes my mind someplace.
When I was growing up, we got the news from Walter Conchright.
And the feeling was it was the news.
not biased, it didn't have a taint. He was the most trusted man in America at one point.
And now, you know, there's an agenda from which news source you go to. And I was told that there
(24:44):
was a lawsuit not too long ago where one of these news sources made the declaration that
they aren't a news source, they're about entertainment. And they paid so many millions of dollars because
of maybe some mis-sayings or misquotes that they were making in the defense. They just
(25:06):
said they weren't a news source. So anyway. That's a rare glimpse of honesty, right? It
is. It is. So, guard your doctrine closely. That being said, my pastor back in the early
(25:26):
90s always used de Stroom's Concordance and would tell us the Hebrew word for this is
such and such. And the Greek word for this is such and such. So, again, I've had this
for 30 years. I went and bought a Stroom's Concordance so that when I had questions about
(25:55):
a word that was pivotal, say in a particular verse of scripture, I could look it up in
Strong's and understand where that word was translated from. So that kind of gets you
into, was this Jesus speaking? Why is this italicized? I guess italics means added by
(26:16):
privilege of the translator who understands the culture, understands the language. It's
more interpretive than it is a translation. Okay. So can you get us into that, the word
translation and then those versions of the Bible that are kind of translates phrases,
(26:38):
if you will? So you have a spectrum of Bible translations. Okay. You have got what's called,
I'm not exactly sure the vocabulary, a free translation, an interpretive translation.
So things like the message, the new living translation, these are interpretive and the
(27:04):
goal is to communicate the concepts in a very understandable, easy to read format. Now,
I would say the new living translation is a good translation because they have a team
of scholars who are doing it. The message is an interpretation by one person. He's a
(27:29):
good person, Eugene Peterson. But whenever you have a team working together to kind of
debate things, you're going to get something that's more trustworthy, in my opinion. So
something like the new living translation is going to be a solid free translation. Then
(27:51):
you've got what's called a dynamic equivalence. It tries to strike the balance from communicating
what the text originally said and making it readable and understandable to the modern
reader. So something like the NIV, okay, which is a good translation, is attempting to strike
(28:15):
that balance. And there are other translations as well. The United Methodist denomination
used to recommend the new revised standard version. And so that's a good translation.
And then you have what's called a more literal translation of the text. The goal is to simply
(28:36):
communicate what the text said in a more direct fashion. And so this is why I like the ESV.
It leans, it is a modern literal translation. So you'd take something like the King James.
That leaned towards a literal translation. The problem with the King James was, was produced
(28:59):
in the 1500s. They were working off of inferior manuscripts. We've found, going back to the
discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they've also discovered New Testament documents that
are older and better than what the translators of the King James were working from. And so,
(29:20):
and the original King James makes some blatant errors. So you've got older literal translations
like the American Standard version. Again, these were produced in the early 1900s. And
so I like the ESV because it is a modern, we've got the best manuscripts. We've got
(29:45):
very high quality scholarship producing a more literal translation of the Bible, which
is what I prefer. And the ESV study Bible, by the way, is a very good study Bible. So
I recommend that to people all the time. Just always understand there's a difference between
(30:06):
the Bible and the notes at the bottom. Yes. Right? Yes. Yes. And I really, really appreciate
that because that's what my pastor was saying, Pastor Dollar, back in the 90s, that the translator
actually made an error here or they added this, but this was not in the original transcripts.
(30:28):
And I'm not exactly sure what that translator was thinking. But if you go back to the original
word, it was translated from, you know, that word means, you know, A, B, C. And based upon
how this was translated, it appears that he was thinking that this meant D, E, F, and
(30:49):
G. And I was like, oh, okay. And so that's why I ended up getting my Strong's so that
I could kind of go back and really let the Holy Spirit speak to your heart and kind of
say, hey, check that. Or, yep, you got it. And I think that's why it's so important.
(31:18):
And I remember this probably from my grandfather was a pastor, my mother loves it. So the funny
thing is, when my parents were at Purdue, my dad doing his PhD and my mom her masters,
they sent me to my granddaddy. And my granddaddy in South Carolina was a farmer, janitor, and
(31:39):
a pastor. And he dipped a chew. So anyway, he'd always have this chew. And I'm a baby.
And you tell I'm fair skinned. My granddaddy looked more like my mother. She's very dark.
And so you got this little, you know, high yellow baby in the pulpit with this pastor.
(32:02):
And my cousins laugh, my older cousins, because they say, well, granddaddy's always spitting
the bottle. And they say sometimes he'd give me the bottle and I would drink from the bottle.
So they thought it was the funniest thing in the world.
But he and I would talk about after Desert Storm, we would talk and I remember telling
(32:27):
my granddaddy, you know, I've always been in church with you and, you know, been in
church growing up. And I said, the Bible that I'm reading, I'm not reading what I know to
be westernized Christianity. What I'm reading is total submission unto the will of God.
(32:55):
And he was like, well, son, keep growing. And I said, yes, sir. Yes, sir. And so when
I got back, I remember my pastor, Reverend Outlaw, gave me an opportunity to speak to
the congregation. And those are things that I was sharing that, you know, when I got into
the Bible for myself, I saw a different Christianity than I had been experiencing in the U.S. where,
(33:23):
you know, it's okay to get drunk. It's okay to go out. It's okay to party versus committing
your life unto Christ versus understanding that we are the redeemed of the Lord. And
my pastor, I just remembered that's why I love Pastor Dollar so much. He would go into
(33:45):
what is redemption? What does it mean to redeem something? That means that, you know, somebody
paid a price for you. So that reality of you don't belong to you, you belong to him because
he literally died for you. They whipped him with a cat of nine tails. And I remember Pastor
(34:10):
Dollar would go into the description of what is a cat of nine tails and go into the description
of Roman culture and how they were uber masculine. And, you know, how at the end of that cat
of nine tails, there these, I think there were penny nails and it, you know, the whip
kind of wrapped around you and it, you know, went into the flesh. And then when it came
(34:34):
out, it's bringing flesh with it. And, you know, those realities like Jesus did that
for me. And it's not hard to come to, no, I belong to him. He paid the price for my
life. And so I remember yesterday we were talking about the Holy Spirit. And now when
(34:59):
I think back over my life, I just remember so many instances where if the devil could
have killed me or destroyed me, he would have, but he couldn't. And the reality is greater
is he that is on the inside of me than he that is in the world to the point where we
(35:22):
don't have to fear the devil. We don't have to fear his demons. And so this word, you,
and I think the Bible lays it out beautiful, are the feet of them that prepare or that
preach the gospel of peace. As I just feel so honored to have this opportunity to talk
(35:44):
to you. And I think this is such a great medium that the body can watch and learn. So thank
you so much. Well, so where else would you like to go with this? I mean, the free translations,
interpretive translations, dynamic equivalents, I understand that the ESV and my mother has
(36:04):
started reading the ESV and I think it's wonderful.
So just to piggyback off of what you said there, because you were talking about redemption
and the cost of redemption and the connection to the Bible, because the Bible is what communicates
that story and it provides, going back to the Holy, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit,
(36:32):
the born again person that Jesus Christ creates a new on the inside of me whenever I submit
his Lordship, the Bible provides us with the nutrients, you know, just like going back
to a baby in the bottle. Yes. You've got to feed the baby the proper nutrients so it can
(36:52):
grow into a strong and healthy person. The Bible provides the believer with the nutrients
by which we grow into strong and powerful people. And you just touched on so many things
there, like greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. And I don't have
to be afraid of death, for instance, which you were in a context where the rubber meets
(37:16):
the road and really clarifies your priorities in life when you're staring faith, death in
the face. So things like death, things like enemies in the demonic realm that want to
control our minds and emotions. We no longer when we grow to mature men and women of God,
(37:43):
we get to the point where we don't have to cry out. You know, we become powerful people
that understand we dominate those beings, they don't dominate us. Because I have developed
my spirit, my born again spirit to maturity, I realize how powerful I am. And I am no longer
(38:08):
intimidated by things out there in the world. You know, so it helps me to discern truth
from error in regards to my own thoughts about my own shortcomings and because my sin is
a real thing. And it's something that I have to learn to bring under the yoke of discipline.
(38:32):
And so a lot of Christians become hijacked with thoughts of guilt and shame. You know?
So really learning to understand the message of Scripture and the testimony of Jesus Christ
helps us to overcome not only the enemy without but the enemy within. You know? So yes, yes.
(38:57):
It's so powerful. You know, in regards to the Strong's Concordance,
it's probably smart to keep a hard copy of that. But it's just so easy to use those tools
online. Okay, I was telling you yesterday about a website that I use the Interlinear
(39:18):
Bible. So stack the original Greek with the English translation. And it has a link to
the Strong's definition right above each word. It is so useful as a resource at understanding
the Bible. If you just Google Interlinear Greek Hebrew Bible.
(39:39):
Okay, Interlinear Greek Hebrew Bible. Yeah. But I was, I'm always cautious when doing
that because I had a Greek professor when I was in college that said, I hear pastors
all the time telling me that this translation is wrong. And then the original Greek, it
(40:01):
means this. And he said, of course, this is a made up number. 92% of the time they get
it wrong. So the thing we need to respect is the people who are working on these translations
are actual experts in these fields. And it is being peer reviewed by other experts, because
(40:24):
they really care about getting it right. You know, they have a they do it with the fear
of God. And so that's why I use the Strong's and things like that to help me understand
concepts that are in the original language that the the English language can't quite
communicate. Okay, you know, I'm not so much trying to change or reinterpret or correct
(40:50):
the Bible translator so much is just get a deeper meaning. An example of that's like
the word meek. We've got a certain understanding of that in the English language that I bristle
against because my last name is meek. And so people use the word meek to mean weak,
typically in the English language, but it's actually communicating the idea. And if you
(41:13):
go back and do some of these studies, you can see it's communicating the concept of
like an ox doing work. Okay, the farmer places a harness on the ox to do some work. It's
using the ox's strength to benefit the farmer's family. This is the idea being communicated
(41:35):
with the word meek. God is placing us under a yoke. Yes. And he intends to harness our
strength for the purpose of bringing something good to the world. Now the ox could easily
break out of that harness and trample the farmer. Yes. Right. Yes. And so the ox is
(41:58):
being meek in being willing to have his strength used by someone else to make something good.
You know, now that's a revelation of the word meek. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And so
that's why when Jesus says, uh, come unto me, all you who are weary and heavy laden,
(42:21):
I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you for my burden is easy and my yoke is light.
Yes. Yeah. Wow. That goodness gracious that, uh, I think that in itself kind of blows me
away that that analogy, um, that's probably the best that's probably ever been, uh, communicated.
(42:48):
And, uh, you know, I'm sure I can't speak for others, but if I could, uh, probably tell
them exactly that because I think that is a revelation of what meekness is. And you
get those treasures out of the scripture whenever you put the effort into being consistent and
(43:08):
diligent at really trying to understand not only what the text says, but then what it
means, you know, now that takes me to this. So, and as you know, I was in a Baptist church
for a long time. Um, and I've been in church all my life. I think I was in Nashville here
at the Antioch missionary Baptist church. And I think the pastor was talking about understanding
(43:33):
the Bible and he said, anybody can read the words. Everybody can read the words. The devil,
the demons can read the words, but they don't understand what's in between the words that
the Holy spirit, you have to have the Holy spirit, um, uh, as your litmus test to understanding
(43:57):
the scriptures, what's your, your thought and your point about that?
Yeah. So within Methodism, we have this tradition, uh, called holiness of heart and mind. Okay.
Okay. So if you over rely on the Holy spirit to help you understand the Bible, it will
(44:22):
drive you to all kinds of fruity and flaky and nutty conclusions. Okay. So I came out
of the charismatic Pentecostal world where I used to hear say, people say all the time,
well, God told me this means this or God told me that. And you know, 90% of the time it
was hogwash, you know, now some of it's real and needs to be respected and cared about.
(44:46):
But so there's the type of person that over relies on the Holy spirit or their intuition
or God told me this means this, you know, not that that's an invalid tool, but you can't
do it at the neglect of developing your mind with study and high quality thinking and,
uh, allowing your ideas to be critiqued by others. A lot of times, super spiritual people,
(45:12):
if they're critiqued by others, they will say, well, that person's just done spiritual
and they, they're not hearing God, you know, it was like, you need to really respect the
criticism that you're offered because it might help you clarify your thoughts and your perspective,
you know? Uh, so we need to be mindful and diligent about cultivating our abilities and
(45:37):
skills in both of those areas and respecting the criticisms that we might be offered, uh,
as maybe being something that helps us to see things in a more mature, well balanced
fashion. So, okay. You know, and then there are people that just study the Bible from
(46:04):
a purely academic point of view and they don't even believe most of the stuff that's in there.
Right. You know what I mean? And so, uh, holiness of heart and mind is something we really need
to retain and press into in our theological tradition as Methodists. God is real. The
(46:27):
supernatural is real. He still speaks to us today. The gifts of the Holy spirit are still
valid and active. That is no excuse for neglecting our mind and training our mind in high quality
principles that accommodate critique, uh, from other perspectives. So without, you know,
(46:57):
labeling them unspiritual or whatever. So, okay. So that's, um, um, very, very good. I think that
adds a lot of balance, um, to what Timothy told Paul study to show that self-approved, a workman
(47:19):
that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. And the thing about this word is
it doesn't change these and the letters of the texts, they don't change the words of the scripture.
They don't change our emotions change. Um, and we are emotional beings, but you've got to go back
(47:43):
to the source, um, because in the beginning was the word, the word was God, the word was with God.
And then a few scripts later, the word became flesh. So our authority has to be the word and
anything that, um, takes us away from the word, uh, we're wrong. You're preaching to the choir here,
(48:13):
brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and at the same time, the beauty of the nature of this unique
book, it is uniquely authoritative in that nothing reveals God like the pages of scripture.
Mm hmm. Now you have to have the power of the Holy Spirit to bring it to life. Uh, but God is
(48:40):
constantly growing our understanding. The Bible doesn't change, but our understanding of what is
written there is improving. Uh, it doesn't change anything that's written there. You know, it's just
our understanding, standing of the implications of what is revealed there is growing and we're
(49:00):
getting better as corrupt as the world is becoming. God is cultivating what the Bible predicts will be
a bride that is pure and spotless and without blemish, you know, holiness of heart and mind
without spot or blemish in our character and our thinking in our ways of relating to the world
(49:25):
around us. That's exciting. Yes. You know? Yes. Yes.
Um, well, what else, uh, would you like to share? I think the, what I'm taking away from this is
the ESV is a good version to, to read, to, to study. Um, do you recommend online or having a,
(49:53):
uh, a copy? Uh, is that maybe just the age thing, young people?
Mostly I've experienced cause you know, it's like most of my library is now electronic.
And one of the reasons is commentaries. If you buy the hard copy or expensive because they take so
many pieces of paper to produce. And it's like less than half the price if you buy them online.
(50:14):
And the other benefit is I've always got my library with me in my pocket, you know? So I'm
pro technology. Uh, you know, it's like the translation of the Bible, that's the best is
the one that you'll read. Yes. Right. And, uh, but yeah, that I, I use the internet a lot because
(50:36):
it is an amazing place to discover high quality thinking and thinkers that help me get better
at understanding what's written in that book. You know, now of course you can find all kinds
of bad things as well on the internet, but that doesn't change the fact. Right. I use the internet
(50:58):
to produce my content, to help people take steps forward in their faith. And it's an amazing tool
for me to help spread my message. Right. So, uh, but I, I've always been technology, a technology
friendly person. Okay. Yeah. I mean, obviously we've got a room full of lights and cameras and
stuff like that. So, yes, but well, the pastor, I think that's a great introduction and I've gained
(51:24):
a lot from it and I appreciate it. And I think it's digestible enough for the, the lay person to
kind of understand. And so thank you for taking the time forward and forward to going back and
rereading it and re-listening to it and applying that holiness of heart and mind. Uh, so, oh man,
(51:50):
that, that's so important. And then your, uh, revelatory explanation of, uh, uh, meek and, uh,
uh, uh, God's yoke. That's, that's incredible. Okay. So thank you. And I'll end with this.
This is one of my favorite verses. It's from the book of Proverbs. Okay. And it's in regards to
(52:14):
the information hidden in the pages of that book. It's the glory of God to conceal a matter.
It's the glory of Kings to search them out. And so ultimately that's what, you know, two guys like
you and me are sitting here doing. We're searching, we're searching out the mysteries of God together
(52:34):
and it is producing greatness in our minds and hearts. And that's what happens when every person
engages in that process. So thank you for coming in and, uh, and doing this with me. Yes, sir.
All right. God bless you. Blessings to you.
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