Empowering Business Growth with Alyssa Devine

Is your business protected against unforeseen legal challenges? 
With an impressive background, holding both a J.D. and an M.B.A. from Indiana University, Alyssa combines legal expertise with entrepreneurial insight to offer unparalleled protection for your business.
Alyssa ensures that she is preventing costly legal issues before they arise, focusing on comprehensive strategies that reduce liability and safeguard intellectual property. She also provides tailored legal and business solutions designed to build a strong foundation for sustainable growth.
Learn about the importance of protecting your intangible assets and how Alyssa's unique approach ensures your business is prepared for any challenge.
Get to know more about Alyssa and what she does at https://purplefoxlegal.com/ 
To learn more about myself, Michael Esposito, and find out about public speaking workshops, coaching, and keynote speaking options, and - of course - to be inspired, visit www.michaelespositoinc.com
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
Hello all, my entrepreneurs and business leaders, and welcome to
the Michael Esposito Show, where I interview titans of industry
in order to inform, educate and inspire you to be great.
Is the founder of end managing partner of Purple Fox Legal.
She created a unique law firm focused on intellectual property

(00:41):
law for creatives and entrepreneurs. Uniquely positioned to assist her clients,
she is not only a lawyer, but has also earned
an MBA from Indiana University. Her knowledge and passion for
both business and IP law is is the winning combination

(01:01):
that helps create customized legal solutions to support her client's
business values. She's worked at both state and federal levels
with numerous judges, providing her with a wider perspective of
the law and how it works. She has also gained
valuable insight working at a renowned intellectual property management company

(01:24):
that focuses on protecting deceased celebrities brands. Recently, her alma
Mada Indiana University Robert H. McKinney's School of Law recently
published an alumni spotlight recognizing her accomplishments. She's been interviewed
where she speaks openly about the importance of intellectual property

(01:48):
and for all business types. She's passionate about educating others
about the law and hopes to inspire appreciation for the
value and beauty of intellectual property while using legal principles
to grow businesses. She also enjoys giving back through volunteering
and was awarded the Norman Lifstein Award of Excellence for

(02:12):
volunteering over five hundred pro bono hours. In addition to
quench her thirst for persevering intellecture for perceiving intellectual property,
she sets time aside to watch documentaries every month and
enjoys time with her cat, Rocky. Please welcome, Founder and

(02:34):
managing partner of Purple Fox Legal, Alissa Divine Welcome, Thank.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
You, Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Happy to be here, so much fun to have you
on here, so much to talk about and as we
were just talking about in our pre show about AI
and where that's going and that is certainly a fun
topic to touch on. Is Ai. The other thought. The
other thing that I thought was pretty interesting about your
resume there is working on deceased celebrities and making sure

(03:09):
that all of that stays intact, all of their information
it's not moved around and changed, and all the other stuff.
And for our audio listeners, Alissa is nodding along here
with me, and that you know this is very important.
I could read that off of your face. I know
that we're going to get into all of that, and
I know our listeners can't wait to hear about all
of that. But first of all, you formed this amazing

(03:32):
company on your own back during the pandemic. And something
that I thought was really interesting about you in our
pre conversations was that you never even wanted to be
an entrepreneur. So I'd love if you could just take
us back a little bit about your start with all
of this.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yes, absolutely, yes, I definitely did not want to be
an entrepreneur. It was sort of the last choice for me,
not in my brand overall plan for myself, but I
was sort of forced into it due to the pandemic,
and really my introduction to entrepreneurship actually came through my

(04:15):
grandfather as a child. He's a farmer in Indiana, so
growing corn and beans and all that great stuff. But
what I recognized was that, you know, the his success
varied season to season, and it was dependent on a
lot of different factors such as the weather, you know,

(04:36):
and the effectiveness of pesticides and things like that. But
what was scary to me, or at least you know,
as I sort of reflect back, is that there were
so many things outside of his control, and that's a
very risky type of business. Mostly again, do the weather.
He couldn't control the weather. If it rained too much,

(04:56):
you know, that wouldn't be the best crop yield. But
he could take some mitigating steps, such as, you know,
spraying pesticide so little pritters and insects aren't literally eating
his profits. So that was sort of my first introduction
into entrepreneurship, and it was it was scary, risky, and

(05:17):
I didn't I kind of wanted to avoid that. And
as part of the reason why I went to law
school as well, to learn how to avoid risk or
mitigate risk, i should say. And I kept coming back
to intellectual property and that just that just became my passion.
That's what I wanted to practice. I didn't care, you know,
where exactly I practiced necessarily, but that's that's what I

(05:39):
wanted to do. That's the subject matter that I wanted
to focus on. And then the pandemic happened, and then
all the job offers dried up, you know, and a
lot of a lot of attorneys actually were laid off
of you know, small, medium, large firms. There was no
distinction really, so I had to kind of be creative,

(06:02):
and you know, I kind of had the choice to
take some other opportunities. I know I wouldn't have enjoyed
or kind of jump off this cliff and take the
plunge into entrepreneurship, which often conflicts with my attorney training.
I'll say, but it's been a blessing in disguise, and

(06:23):
I've done fairly well for being such a new company.
And I think also the fact that my business is newer,
it helps provide a little bit more credibility or even
rapport with clients when they're also starting their businesses because
I'm growing my business with them. So it's much more

(06:46):
of a partnership collaboration versus attorney client.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, you know, you said something that was interesting to
me about that there was some opportunities that you could
have taken. So it's funny because you see say that
you didn't ever want to be an entrepreneur, but there
were opportunities for you to take job roles, but you
knew you wouldn't have been happy. Could you speak a
little bit more about that, because we know so many

(07:13):
of us have gone that route.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, So the majority of opportunities available to me during
the pandemic were focused in criminal law and personal injury law,
and there's you know, there's nothing wrong with that, and
I actually have experience, in a little bit of experience
in both those areas, but that's not what I enjoy doing.
And I didn't want to limit myself to something I

(07:39):
just knew wasn't passionate about. And just you know, the
pandemic was hard enough for everybody. I wanted to do
what I enjoyed, what I was passionate about, and I
wanted to do intellectual property. So you know, but at
that time, the only option for I guess the only
option I could think of it that time was well,
I'm just going to create my own brand. I'll show

(08:01):
people how to do it, and then I'll teach them
how to you know, also use the law in addition,
so I wanted to I was very intentional about creating
a brand, not a law firm.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
What reason for my question there is, and I'll expand
on it a little bit further about finding like your purpose,
like you're saying this right now, about like it was
important for you to follow your purpose, your heart, your desires,
and to be happy and to find happiness and fulfillment
in your work. And when when I speak with with
young entrepreneurs or new entrepreneurs, it's important for them to

(08:35):
kind of find their purpose, I think, right, And so
I'm interested in how you were able to discover that
for yourself, of what your purpose was. And why I
use the jobs as kind of like the framing for
this is because it's it's easy when we're in a
position where you know, we don't have a cash flow
coming in and we want that security, like you said

(08:56):
you wanted to, you don't want to take a risk,
we want the security of a job, and so it
is easy to kind of put our purpose, our values
aside to just take a job in order to get
the need of finances going, get the cash flow going.
But when you know your purpose and you know your value,
and you understand your your why and you're attached to that,

(09:19):
then you kind of lean to that and gravitate towards that,
and therefore you put the blinders on and don't take
those jobs. And so I'm interested for you what that
process was like in terms of discovering your purpose and
discovering your why, and I mean leading to what you
just said there of wanting to develop not a law firm,
but a brand.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I think my kind of discovering my passion for intellectual
property really began when I entered law school and I
had sort of in my mind the idea of working
in federal government. That's sort of where I saw myself.
And I attended a lot of different events. There were

(10:03):
there were always all theyse different learning opportunities like lunch
and learn type types of things, or guest speakers, things
like that. I attended a lot of them, and I
kind of explored the different areas of law, and it
was actually kind of like going to restaurants. You go
to a restaurant, you get the menu right, and you're
contemplating all the different options oh I might get that,

(10:26):
I might get that, but then you keep you go
back to the same thing you always get. That's kind
of like how it was for me with intellectual property.
I just kept coming back to that, kept coming back
to that. Oh, this is really interesting, Like I really
like this. So I attended more of those events and
and learned the importance of it, of understanding business principles

(10:46):
and how business is intrinsically intertwined with intellectual property. Really
you need both to provide, you know, the best value
for clients and also just just to educate yourself about
how to do things better. As as attorneys, it's difficult

(11:07):
sometimes to apply archa somewhat archaic laws to things like
AI and other you know, emerging technologies or innovative and
they things that people are doing because there's not a
whole lot of interpretation behind behind those sorts of things. Yeah,
I think there are approximately fifteen AI intellectual property cases

(11:30):
in the United States right now, So we're kind of
us as an industry kind of waiting to see what
what those decisions will be like and almost hoping that
they don't settle so that we have a little bit
of guidance and can better mitigate risk for our clients.
But going back, going back to the law school, so
I realized the importance of you know, understanding business principles,

(11:54):
and I didn't really have a lot of business experience
or business knowledge at that time, and so I decided
to pursue an NBA degree while going to law school.
And that's becoming a more more popular type of program
in a lot of places because they understand the value
of that. It was certainly difficult, but I think that

(12:16):
I could. I think I perfected by time management skills
by by doing all that. And it was, yes, it
was certainly difficult. I had to make a lot of
personal sacrifices, and because it was a you know, combined
to program, it took four years. Law school typically takes three,
but with that, with both of those degrees, it took
a total of four. But by going through all of

(12:37):
that and making all the sacrifices that I did, I
just felt like at that time I had sacrificed enough
and it was you know, kind of time to seize
what I wanted. And that's that's also part of the
initiative that kind of drove me to starting Purple Fox. Egol.

(12:58):
You know.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Something that you said there. I love the analogy of
the restaurant in that you have this menu and all
of these different options, and yet you keep circling back
to this thing that you're passionate about. I think it's
such a great analogy in terms of finding your purpose
in life for anybody. Of expanding your palette is what
I'm thinking here, of experiencing new things, going out and

(13:21):
trying out every different using the staying enough food analogy here,
I know that you're a restaurant tour and you enjoy
them as well, so you'll enjoy this of going out,
try try all the different restaurants right go to the
different restaurants, check out the menu. And I love your
analogy here of that if you keep going back to
the restaurant that you really love, and you keep going

(13:43):
back to that item on the menu that you really love,
then that's probably where your passion lies and probably where
your why exists. I think that's just such a great
way of maybe discovering it. And I think it goes
along the lines of having more than one experience, trying
a number of things at least, you know, just in

(14:05):
terms of the exploring phase of discovering your why is
trying a number of things in order to see you
know what you like, what you dislike, what you're really
good at maybe and maybe what you're not so good at,
and maybe that not so good is the challenge that
you want in your life, and maybe it's not. But
it's all about that. So I really love that analogy.

(14:26):
Thank you for sharing that with us. In terms of
finding it, I definitely want to touch on AI and text,
intellectual property and some of the cases that are out there.
But before we do that, I still want to go
into building Purple Fox and of course this really cool
unique name there. How much do you attribute your MBA

(14:47):
program that you took to starting Purple Fox to building
out your own business.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I do not think I would have had the competence
to start Purple Fox egal kind of not For stated
an MBA program. Law school is very, very different from
an NBA education in some ways they are polar opposites.
For example, in law school it's very individual focused and

(15:20):
somewhat competitive, sometimes in an unhealthy way at some schools.
Thankfully my school was one of the better ones that
didn't have that issue. But the NBA program was very,
very collaborative. Everything was about you know, group projects and teamwork.
Totally different, totally different, and that at least in that context,

(15:43):
and it was just it was a sort of just surprise. Honestly,
Oh my gosh, you know, this is uh, this is
how you know people do things. And what was also
really unique about the NBA program actually two things. One
was that I was one of five women and been
a cohort of about seventy eighty people, which shocked me

(16:06):
a lot. And I actually even asked the dean at
that time, you know why, well, why am I the
only one of the only women? She said, women don't apply?
And I just I found that incredibly shocking, like one
of the top, like one of the top NBA programs
in the country, women don't apply? Why why don't they apply?

(16:26):
Like I was just terribly shocked by that. But then
also another unique thing was that the majority of my
peers in that in the cohort were people who had
had ten or more years of experience working at a
full time job. Well, I went straight through college to
law school, so I never really had that. I you know,

(16:48):
worked a number of part time jobs, but never a
full time job, and I never focused singularly on that.
So having their diverse perspectives I think really helped me
a lot in my personal growth. And I was I
was I was challenged. I was challenged a lot. You know,
It's that it wasn't really necessarily about you know, the homework,

(17:11):
the assignments and stuff. It was it in grades. That's
that's not you know, of course, you don't want to
get good grades. That's not really the focus. It's about
learning and improving yourself. And I remember one of the
biggest things that that stuck with being in the NBA
program is that they taught us to read peer review

(17:32):
research articles and think about how to apply those conclusions
and real life, which is really difficult actually, and I've
and I've actually kind of done that a little bit,
or tried to do that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
But that's really what entrepreneurship is. And that's sort of

(17:54):
at least my approach to it, and certainly everybody has
their own approach, and I would I don't think it,
you know, I don't think most people would do that
if you know, they didn't have that background. But I
think that's good that we have different ways of doing that.
And different ways of approaching that. And that's actually, uh,
that's actually a number of peer review research articles have

(18:18):
had came to that same conclusion. The diverse perspectives, that's
what it gets you better results.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, there, I think about an MBA program in that,
you know, one, I feel like I've I've been going
through my own MBA program. I don't have an MBA,
but from starting a business and everything, and I do
think about going back to school to get an MBA,
and I wonder how my experience would change how I

(18:49):
would learn. And so I do think that there is
an advantage to those people in your cohorts who had
some experience and outside world experience and applied it. I
also think that it was an advantage to you that
you didn't have that outside world experience, and the reason
being that you also didn't have the influence of what
you may already know or think you know from the

(19:12):
outside world. So I'm kind of like fifty to fifty
on the whole thing, although I still would lean towards
those who did have the full time job having a
bit of an advantage and definitely give you some kudos
on working through that. It's so interesting. I never knew
how different I was going to ask you about that
law school from business school would be. I would have
thought both would be highly competitive. I would have thought

(19:33):
business school was more competitive, because you know, business and
competition between businesses, and I don't know that we as
outsider see that within law of so competitive. And how
that is? What were some of the other differences that
you mentioned. You said some complete polar opposites, and you

(19:53):
had mentioned it earlier too, about how sometimes business or
being an entrepreneur completely contradict your law mind. I'm interested
in that as to what that, what do you mean
by that?

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I think the best example of that actually is probably
the Barbie movie. Barbie Movie, but you know, it was
very heavily advertised. I couldn't get away from it. I
I you know, I haven't seen it. I probably will
see it by one point, but I was I was
overwhelmed and oversaturated with ads, as I'm sure everyone else was.

(20:27):
But as I saw those ads, I also saw other
things online, particularly social media, that I would characterize as
infringement in selectual property infringement. But from Mattel's perspective, you know,
owner the Barbie trademark, the dolls, and all that that
wasn't in their best interest to actually go after all

(20:48):
those people Like that would be the best legal decision,
that's not the best business decision because that's going to
deter people from going to see the movie, which made
over one point five billion dollars. So I think they
made the right decision maybe there, But that that also
can be tricky from an intellectual property standpoint, because you
don't want to just you know, let everybody you know

(21:08):
use your marks all the time. You can, you can
lose your rights that way, but it was in this case,
it was a strategic move for them. So that's what
I mean by sometimes the business conflicts with with the
legal side of things, and you know, ultimately that's up
to my client, you know, what what kind of route
to go. But my role is more so the educator,

(21:29):
the guide. You know, I can tell them the potential
consequences of you know, each option, and it's just kind
of up to them to make that decision. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
So you can see it from the legal standpoint and
help make that case for that, but you also see
it from the marketing and brand standpoint.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
To your point about the Barbie movie, we took the
girls uh to uh the spirit of Halloween shop. These
are these pop These are the pop up Halloween places
with Halloween coming around the corner and getting them their
Halloween costumes. And my daughters were asking Denise and Tentley
were asking us, so, what are you gonna be for Halloween.
I was like, I'm not going to be anything, you know,

(22:08):
I'm bringing your trick or treating and no, no, we
want you to dress up. We want you to dress up.
So there was actually a Ken T shirt, a black
Ken T shirt that says Ken on the front of it,
and I was just like, how about I be Ken
for Halloween? And she goes, yeah, yeah. So I was like,
all right, cool, So we bought we bought the Ken
T shirt and my wife I was like, all right,
she'll be Barbie. So she's she's gonna wear a white
shirt and pink and we got our pink spandex to

(22:30):
do the complete the Barbie outfit, you know. So we're
just gonna be like simple parents with this. But I
guess what I'm saying here is that that Ken T shirt,
when I think about it, it doesn't say Mattel anywhere on it.
It was in the pop up Halloween shop and it's
literally it's made in China. It's a large and that's
all that's on the label. And so to your point,
it's you know, it's it's the infringement, as you're saying,

(22:53):
copyright infringement more than likely, but it's probably getting the
Barbie movie brand out there because we're going to be
dressed as Barbie and Ken for Halloween and people are
going to see it and ask about the movie, and
it'll bring up the conversation because that's why people this
year would be dressed that way. And of course all
of our listeners you're listening to this after Halloween, we

(23:14):
certainly acknowledge, acknowledge that, but you know, you get that,
you get the point in terms of all of that.
I'm going to move on now to what you just
said of putting that marketing hat, that branding hat on.
And I'm interested in purple fox. I know, I know
you love your cat Rocky and you enjoy cuddling up
and reading a book and all that other stuff with

(23:35):
your with your with your kiddy cat. But it's not
a fox. So what made you choose the color purple?
And what made you choose a fox? Very interested in that.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
It was so hard. It was so hard, and I'm
sure a lot of other entrepreneurs find it very challenging
to come up with the name. I think it took
me about three months to come up with the name,
three months come up with the logo. So I was
very careful and intentional about it. But I did a
lot of research, kind of kind of took my MBA
training and kind of with that approach, and did a

(24:08):
lot of reading and you know, color psychology and other
other types of things, and you know, basically, I wanted
something that was easy to pronounce, easy to spell, you know,
obviously protectable. You know, had had the available you know,
domain name and available social media handles and things like that,

(24:31):
and and I also kind of had in my mind,
you know, I don't want to use an animal have
like a little kind of mascot, and you know, I
feel like they think that would be memorable. But you know, traditionally,
I think a lot of layers. You know, I think
that's kind of associated with like lions, which is fine,
but you know, I wanted to be different, completely different.
I wanted to stand out a lot. So I was like, okay,

(24:54):
you know what like, let's do purple. So purple really
in the invokes wisdom in creativity. It also is associated
with royalty, of course, but we can we can maybe say, uh,
I have you know, royal customer service or something like that.
But mainly it's for wisdom and creativity, because you know,

(25:14):
I help entrepreneurs and creatives. I was like, okay, that
makes sense. And then Fox for kind of cleverness and
also getting out of tricky situation, which is essentially what
a lawyer does in a lot of cases. I mean,
I prefer to prevent problems, but I can I can
certainly help people get out out of out of a
sticky situation if if they find themselves in that. And

(25:35):
then of course legal so I was like, you know,
I got to tell them kind of what what we're
you know talking about here? What what industry are we in? Uh?
But it's it's worked really well. And you know, I
go to networking events and stuff and in Nashville, in Tennessee,
and it's so funny because people almost every time somebody
will come up to me and say you're Purple Fox,
and I say, yes, that is my name, uh uh,

(25:59):
And it's it's just so funny because it's so memorable,
they don't remember, they don't remember name, and I'm not
offended at all, but they remember my brand, which is
the whole point.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, and when you think about branding, is it also
because of expansion.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Two degree? Yes, yes, So you know, I was very
intentional about picking a very strong trademark, and I mean
there's there's a there's a lot of things out there.
I think I had a little bit of advantage compared
to a lot of entrepreneurs because most most attorneys and
law firms just use you know, the last names of
the owners. And sometimes that's that's due to state ethics,

(26:37):
you know, like regulations, and then other states you know,
have a little bit more more lax terms on that
basically as long as it's not like misleading. So again,
I was very I wanted to create a brand, you know,
and I'm also introverts. I don't like being out in
the spotlight, even though you know on your podcast talking

(26:58):
about all these things, but it just you know, it
takes a lot of energy, and I prefer the brand
to be sort of just more out there versus me
as an individual.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, I asked that expansion question because that's that's when
when I developed my brand it was it was for
that reason. It's the same thing of I didn't want
it to be focused on me like you just said,
I wanted to be focused on that. So my my
insurance company, and most people are very familiar with insurance companies.
They're typically like law firms, the last name or the
first and last name of the owner. So it's like

(27:29):
Michael Esposito Insurance. And my original thought concept that I
had before I had this bigger idea, was Esposito Group.
But that's why I asked you that question about expansion
is when I thought about it in terms of a legacy,
I was thinking, I want to have something that is
not attached to me, that people can make their own.

(27:50):
In all fairness, I did name it after my daughters,
and that was a whole other like you said, branding
exercise to build DN ten and everything. But I did
choose the color purple, and I thought that was interesting
that you said wisdom and creativity, because that's what I
wanted to attract too, was a younger creative audience. So
it's really interesting that you bring that up. I love

(28:13):
that you also went through like color psychology to find
your brand. I think that that's really cool, and I
like all of the background and meaning behind it all.
I think really really neat, and it does help in
terms of like networking events where you know, people know
you for your brand, and it just really in an
industry like yours and like mine, where everybody goes by
their last names, it really makes us stand out. So

(28:34):
I think it was really really clever, as you said,
all right, as promised, I want to get to this
AI and intellectual property cases because I'm sure that this
is a lot of fun for you to talk about
and interesting for us to learn about, because this is
something that's happening. I was just I liked to I
like to go on YouTube and watch different clips between

(28:56):
basketball and sports cars, and that's usually what I what
I get. And then I get some stand up comics
pop in there every once in a while, and some
Joe Rogan pops in there every once in a while,
and recently a lot of Joe Rogan's clips have been
dubbed with AI, and so this is very interesting, like
what's happening in that space of where they're actually what

(29:19):
they're what people are doing is they're using Ai to
take because he has so much content out there, and
I guess one day this will happen to me and
my shows. He has so much content out there that
they're taking clips from like different episodes and different shows
and things that he said, and like mashing it all together.
And then they're doing the same for his guests to

(29:40):
where this one episode that I this one clip that
I watched, I had to read the comments to be like,
is this real or not? Where he had one guest
arguing with a well not he did, but what AI
created was one guest arguing with another guest, and you
realize that it's completely two different shows, but they just
pieced it all together so perfectly and with Joe and

(30:00):
there and everything so perfectly that you would have thought
that that actually happened. So I am really interested as
to how the law is starting to work on this.
And maybe I don't know, cut back on that, because
I mean that would if if you're not looking into
the comments to learn that this might be Ai, you're
thinking this is actually happening on his show. So I'm
really interested as to what's happening in the legals perspective.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Of all of this. Absolutely, absolutely and I think it
was just last week or maybe the week before, Tom Hanks,
you know, came out and you know said, hey, you know,
if you've seen this dental ad with me, it wasn't
actually me, it was a I right. So it's just
you know, it's it's it's happening. It's happening a lot.

(30:44):
And you know, I'm I'm I'm forward thinking. I'm supportive
of you know, innovation, you know innovation and things like that.
But when it comes to using AI for content generation,
there are a lot of intellectual property issues such as

(31:04):
you know what what you were describing if we're mostly
I think I think the probably the biggest problem is
actually right of publicity. So the right of publicity is
a state based intellectual property right, and it's it grants
a person the ability to control any commercial use of

(31:26):
their any unequivocal identifying features. So it can be name, image, likeness,
but they can also be voice, signature and other types
of things as well, anything that just unequivocally identifies that person.
So and the reason why that's a big problem I
think when it comes to AI is really because of

(31:48):
how the right of publicity is I guess organized because
it's state based. There's kind of different a slightly different
scope or slightly different definitions in each state and what
you you know you can and cannot afforce, and what
the different exceptions are. So it gets very, very complicated,
And I think part of the solution to this these

(32:13):
AI challenges is a federal rite of publicity. I'm not
sure if we're going to see that. I believe that
there's actually, like, well, the first federal UH rite of
publicity statute was actually introduced in eighteen eighty eight, but
and I'm sure there's been numerous ones since. But there's
also one now that I believe is called no Fakes.

(32:36):
But you know, by by using AI, taking other people's
content and then generating an image or a video of
them saying whatever, right that, I mean, that's right publicity?
That could be defamation. Uh, you know, it could be
copyright infringement. There's just so many things with that, you know,

(32:57):
potentially trademark infringement as well. But you know, how do
we how do we control this? How do we monitor
this is kind of the question I think that we're
kind of looking at right now. So a lot of
different authors have have sued open AI basically because this
this AI has you know, taken all these different literary

(33:19):
authors work and used it to basically you know, learn
from and and you know and generate content you know
or different inputs that people have given given the technology,
and it's it's it's it's very disturbing at least kind
it's like so property attorney, but it's it's also problematic

(33:42):
because there's not a whole lot of guidance on how
to you know, establish and how does I guess provide
proof of infringement in these kind of cases because the
technology is very new and uh well, the legal industry
it has to catch up with this century and in
a lot of different ways. But it's it's just challenging

(34:05):
on a number of different levels to prove these things
and to monitor. You know, if you if you're a photographer,
you know, you can do like a you know, Google
reverse and search for for a lot of your content
and figure out if somebody is using it without permission
pretty easily. There there are a couple of different things
for for like music copyrights as well. But you know,

(34:26):
when it comes to a I like, how do you again,
how do you monitor that? It's there's really not a
clear answer yet, and that's that's kind of part of
the challenge with well, really with the legal industry and
then you know, kind of major tech industry. But I've
seen one one solution that I've seen is that a

(34:46):
lot of different websites are kind of are writing different
AI policies, and I've actually done that as well. So, like,
you know, if if it's basically against my websites firms
and policies it to use AI for bringing of the
content on there basically because you know, I don't I

(35:07):
don't want any of my stuff to be used without permission.
I don't want it to be taken out of context,
and I don't I don't want my life since to
be at risk or you know, inaccurate legal advice of
any kind. So just kind of thinking about those different challenges.
It's we're in it. It's an exciting time, but it's

(35:29):
also kind of a scary time.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
So what you're saying there in terms of the website piece,
is that meaning so you're saying that you have it
on there where AI can't scrape your website for information.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Is that what you're saying, Yes, that would be against Yeah,
the term the terms and condition.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
How do you know if they're scraping it or not
scraping it.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
There's not really a good way of knowing right now.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
What I guess you're you're basing it off of the
assumption that some kind of ethical AI company sees this
and says, oh, okay, we can't use that one.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Right.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
That's kind of kind of.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Kind of safeguarding myself for the future, right and in
a way, so if I find out later that it
did happen, then I can go back and point to
that policy.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, yeah, so it's good to have in place, but
nothing that you can do to reinforce that right quite yet.
I want to just kind of go back to a
question I have that you were you were sharing earlier
in terms of authors and literary work. So is it
my understanding then from what I got from you, that
what AI is doing is essentially, let's say, reading that

(36:38):
work and and then taking information that is factual or
not factual, whatever it is, but knowledge base information from
that and then you and then rewording it and redistributing
it but without giving credit to the work. Is that
the issue that you're describing there, that's.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Part of it it's it's I think it's it's getting
a little bit more in depth. It's not just you know,
the different facts and information, it's how it's the tone,
it's how the how the words are put together, like
what uh, basically writing.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Styles, taking that from the author.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Correct to basically generate content that is I guess more
more human like right right?

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Sense? Yeah, So I don't know if it's the case
studies or or just more maybe conversational with you in
terms of this, but I mean, wouldn't it to me
what makes sense would be that let's say YouTube or
Facebook or Google, like the big players that have this
AI that that people are finding the sort the AI

(37:44):
sources on would put some sort of parameters around AI
and maybe you know, for me, like I said, my
experiences on YouTube and I go through YouTube shorts and
that's where I saw this this Joe Rogan clip, and
I would think that, you know that's owned by Google,
that if Google puts some parameters where that can't be
put on there, that they would pull that off. Right,

(38:06):
So is that what's happening or trying to happen, is
that is there any conversations around that?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I think that's still kind of a question in the air,
but I have recently reviewed Meta's policies and and those
policies basically, what you're you know, when you do upload content,
you're basically giving them a license to do whatever you
want with it. And actually there's a specific section in
Meta's policies where you're granting them a license to use

(38:35):
your write of publicity to monetize your write of publicity actually,
which is honestly frightening a little bit, but also at
least in terms of how I see it, un ethical.
And there there was actually another another case I don't
I think in February with I think Kylan Young stued

(38:59):
meo court text with the basically a mobile apps reface
I think is what it was called, basically utilizing his
name and I'm sorry, his his image and likeness and
also a lot of other sort of influencers and and
micro influencers right of publicity essentially again for commercial purposes

(39:24):
without permission. So that case is going on right now.
It's it's actually a class.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Class actually, so what happened in that case.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
So essentially Neo Cortex developed this mobile app. I believe
it's called Freeface. I could be wrong. On that. But
essentially they were they used AI and other you know,
other sorts of things to recreate his image and likeness

(39:54):
in in in some kind of commercial context. It kind
of varies, I think.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
And they made commercial using it, is what you're saying. Essentially,
And because he's an influencer, that's so that's that's and
and you and as an influencer, he gets paid for that.
That's how he makes that's how he earns his living
is to use his face, his image and likeness. And
so they used it and were able to commercialize it.
And so that's an ongoing case. And and is that

(40:20):
And he was.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
A he was a contestant on I think Big Brothers
is what it was. But yeah, he's you know, sense
reality TV. He's an influencer. And again yes, that's that's
that is how they those people are paid. And what
value does their rite of pooblicity or trademarks or other
you know, components of their brand. What value does that
have if anybody and everybody can just use it without

(40:43):
permission and without paying them, Yeah, it has none, which
which defeats the whole purpose of intellectual property rights.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Right right? And I know you work with some creatives
and and all sorts of genres with music or influencers
and things of that nature. Are you experiencing a lot
of this right now with your clientience?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
There are a lot of questions being asked, and kind
of like I said before, it's it's really difficult to
even find out if this is actually happening. The technology
and methods aren't quite there yet, because I mean, at
this point, most AI technologies are just kind of scraping
anything and everything off of the Internet or other sources

(41:25):
and using that to basically, you know, become more advanced
and to produce better content or to just work better.
And however it was, you know, whatever the function of
that AI was.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
What were some of the case studies that you were
mentioning before that you said are out there that you're
looking to see what happens with them.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
So the Kylon Young was one, and then the Open
the Open AI was the other. Those are kind of
the two bigger ones. I think there are a couple
there are a couple of other ones as well, but
those are the two big ones that I'm that I'm
watching very close and kind of waiting to see what happens.
I think that they're well and well actually with the

(42:07):
with the uh Coylan young one, the judge recently dismissed
the defendants motion motion to dismiss or denied deny their
motion dismiss based on the neo cortex. The defendant basically said, oh, well,
we couldn't have violated, uh, their publicity rights because that's

(42:30):
preempted by the Copyright Act, which is not true. Uh,
just basically they're saying the Copyright Act, the Federal statute
Copyright Act, is the same as rite of publicity. It's
it's most certainly not and uh, copyright protects creative works
fixed in a tangible medium. There's no fixation requirement for

(42:52):
rite of publicity, and there's not there's no creative work
with right of publicity either. So to say that I don't,
I've kind of confused why some people think that that's
that's a common misconception about rite of publicity. But the judge, yeah,
immediately kind of trying to turn that way, like no,
like this is moving on, that's not we're not, it's
not preempted. So and the same is true for copyright

(43:17):
or i'm sorry, trademark law as well, that that also
is a common argument. But again, it's a distinctive type
of intellectual property, and there's actually five different types. But
people normally kind of associate intellectual property with patents, but
you know, their patents, trademarks, copyrights, you know, publicity rights,
and trade secrets. In the United States at least, there

(43:37):
are other types of intellectual property other places, but I
will get into that today.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
You know something that I noticed like that that actually
happened to me recently was fake Instagram accounts, fake social
media accounts for me. It happened on Instagram where someone
pretty much I guess, screenshotted my I don't know how
it's done, but they screenshotted my Instagram or whatever. And
then they started going through the people that follow me

(44:05):
and followers and d m ing them and messaging them,
and then we requested to have it removed, and it
was removed. Uh, how does that fall in what you do?

Speaker 2 (44:15):
So d that that would probably follow under the d
n C A like takedown, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
takedown process, and well, technically it only applies to copyrights,
but in practice it applies to really all intellectual property.
At least that's how the majority of like social media
and other types of user generated content platforms work. So

(44:40):
you know, I actually recently had somebody come to me
about about something like that, and you know, they're like, yeah,
is this like you know, what do we do? What
do we do? And then kind of you know, advising
them through that process, you know, And I think the
d n c A procedure is abused quite a bit.

(45:02):
You know, in order to really technically you're supposed to
conduct like a good faith analysis whether you know something's
fair use, and a lot of people don't think about that.
They just kind of like want to take down everything.
And we have we have recent guidance from the Supreme

(45:23):
Court about copyright infringement, in particular the fair use defense,
which is very misunderstood. A lot of people think that
just because you don't make money, that means you didn't infringe,
or your nonprofit so you didn't infringe. Well, that's that's
not true. There's actually a school in Texas that was

(45:45):
was penalized for copying a lot of like steady aids
and things like that without permission, without getting the appropriate license,
and the owners of that content were actually awarded like
I think of eleven million dollar damage is award. I
mean it was it was quite It was quite a
stitangial amount of money. It was like three it was
like a three employee company. It was crazy. But I mean,

(46:07):
when when you infringe a copyright there, you know they're
significant consequences. The statutory the images are anywhere from seven
hundred and fifty to thirty thousand per active in bridgement.
So think about you know all that that's all the
times they studied or i'm sorry copied, you know those
study aids right without permission, so you have to like

(46:28):
count all that up, and that's that's the number they
came to the jury. I mean, it's it's cool.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
So what about my power points that I that I
take images and use. Is that an issue?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Well, I haven't seen your power points, so I can't comment.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I am joking about my power points. We only use
the ones that are allowed from canvas. So they gave
us the copyright.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
That's okay. But you know, yeah, what what part of
the various defenses commenting and criticizing? Because if you're you know,
presenting an educational workshop and you know you're using photos
and stuff, you know, that's for the most part probably okay,
but you know, if you're if you're showing an entire
movie without you know, any any early context, like there's

(47:23):
that's just kind of latant infringement. Actually, another another school
got in trouble for showing The Lion King when that
when the newer version came out, Disney sent them a
c sent assist letter. But and then going back to
the business versus legal decision, they quickly pulled back from
that aggressive stance whenever people started to criticize Disney for

(47:44):
that act. But I mean, really, from from what the fact,
from what how the story was told in the news,
it kind of was apart infringement. So Disney had a
right to do that, but it certainly made them look
bad when they did that.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
M So what I mean, we all watched movies in
school so that it would be considered copyright infringement. But
something that maybe they mighte want to back off of
is what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Well, I think you know, well, in school, typically kids
will watch movies and you don't have to write an
essay or answer questions or something like that. So there
is like an educational component in the particular case or
situation that I was talking about This was sort of
like an after school type of thing where there wasn't
any educational purpose other rellion the fact that it was

(48:33):
happening in a school, right, So that was that was
pretty much the only tie to any kind of education.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Wow. Yeah, No, I mean I remember when I was
part of an after school program and they would play movies.
I remember we watched The Fox and the Hound in
one of those. So that was a Disney movie and
we watched and it was just too It sounds like
what you're talking about, which is just to entertain us,
where we would, you know, put the movie on while
we're waiting for our parents to pick us up, and
that would be considered copyright infringement, I guess, and a lot.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Of contexts it very likely would. And what's ironic is that,
you know, every time you go to see the movie,
one of the first things that you see is the
you know, copyright notice. And how you know copyright infringement
is you know, well, it can be you know, obviously
a civil but you know violation, but it can actually

(49:23):
be a criminal act as well. And just just last
month actually somebody basically uploaded a bunch of content, I think,
mostly music to YouTube's content ID system, if you're familiar
with that, basically claiming to be the owner of a
lot of a bunch of different songs, and then what
was getting getting the revenue from all of that, right,

(49:43):
and like millions and millions of dollars and it was
kind of I think it was like a team of people,
but they were sentenced like five years in prison, So
I mean it's it can be a crime as well, you.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Know when you get to that, yeah, doing it with
I think it's I think what it sounds like with
what you're talking about is kind of like the intention
behind it is like the the afterschool program. The intention
is just to kind of entertain these kids while they're
waiting for their parents. They're not trying to make millions
off of playing the Fox and the Hound, right, versus
to what you're talking about. Sounds like there was a

(50:20):
intention behind making money off of uploading these and it
was done sounds like like one of those kind of
hacker groups, is what it sounds like. It kind of
brings up to me some of some thoughts of that.
You know, sometimes you'll google a song and of course
YouTube will be the first thing to pop up, because
you are in Google and and and the videos will

(50:41):
come up, and it's not always the artist's video. It's sometimes,
you know, put on by somebody else. So how is
that taking care of them? Because you know, if let's
say Taylor Swift, you know you're googling or trying to
listen to her song and and she's not the first
one to pop up, and it's somebody else, but it's

(51:02):
her song. Is that the same thing? Like what's going
on there? Because those don't get pulled, it can.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Be in some contexts, And yeah, I think part of it.
Part of it's whether those sorts of things are monetized.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
And the channel is monetized right well.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
And if it is monetized, then the way content ID
works is that you know, it takes at least a
portion of that revenue and then gives it to really
the publisher. The publisher is the one that's enforcing these
types of things online and submitting the dmcas and stuff.
And it's sometimes it's like a game of black them all.

(51:42):
You just you just can't get them all at least
not you know, in a long term or permanent context.
And at a certain point, a lot of businesses have
to kind of ask themselves if you know, whether it's
really worth doing that all the time, and you know,

(52:03):
sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. It depends on the business.
But I mean think about, you know, how how else
would you spend that money? You know that you could
reinvest that in your business. So it just kind of
kind of kind of a twofold there. You know that
the intention whether to you know, make money, but also

(52:26):
how does that business want to unilize its resources.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I remember a story good.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I was going to say that there's actually really clever
use of AI. Call this program called synthisa I don't
know if you've heard of it. Basically, they film people
and you can actually create a custom like avatar as well,
but you know, doing like a fifteen minute speech or

(52:53):
something like that, and basically it'll be like a text
to video type of situation. So it's like, you know,
if you wanted to get a custom avatar, you know
you have to just you know, do their instructions and
do that like fifteen minute recording and you know all
the certain angles and stuff, and then you know, once
they kind of put that in their program and you know,
do do their technical thing, then you can just you know,

(53:17):
basically upload a script and then it will change, it
will take that script, and it will make your avatar
say those things. So it's like, yeah, so it's like
you're almost basically a clone almost of yourself in a way.
But the difference between that and a lot of the
other things that we've been talking about is that with

(53:37):
with this particular company, they're getting permission from the people
they they they're very very transparent about that, and you know,
of course in order to get a custom you know, avatar,
you have to give them permission as well. But it's
it's a very creative use of AI and that's that's
the sort of thing that I think is very problem. Yeah,

(54:00):
it's not it's not all bad. It's not all bad.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
I don't think it's all bad either. I think that
you know, with what you're saying there, there is so
much really good stuff out there to make content marketing
so much easier for business owners. Like you know, you
talk about the business owner. The entrepreneur side is so
many business owners, uh and and entrepreneurs they're they they're
really about their craft, right, You're about the legal side,

(54:25):
and the marketing side is challenging to do, whether it's
from creating content where you're sharing a message online or
or doing a voiceover, or doing a commercial or doing
some kind of you know something where you're being put
in front of a camera is hard, not just hard
because it's it's it's vulnerable, but also hard because of time.
It's time consuming. So yeah, you're right, one hundred percent.

(54:48):
A lot of this technology certainly helps a lot. I
wanted to say real quick. I remember I can't remember
the product. I wish I could off the top of
my head, but I do remember that there was a
a show that I listened to, a podcast, how I
Built This, and one of the interviewees his product actually

(55:08):
did really well because of the copyright infringement that was happening.
It kind of got out there. It was it was
being made in China and the bootleg versions and that's
what made it popular and where his brand was able
to grow. And I can't remember who it was, but
I'll have to kind of like come back to this
one day. But I think that sometimes it can kind

(55:31):
of help to some extent, and maybe that, like you said,
that's why maybe the brand will back off a little
bit because they're like, hey, you know what this is
kind of like getting our name out there? So what's
the big what's the harm there? Speaking about getting your
name out there, I think that there are some really
great ways to get your name out there, and volunteering
and giving our service is a really really great way.
And I know that that's not the intention behind you

(55:54):
doing pro bono work, but I am interested in the
amount of pro bono work that you did and what
your intentionality behind it was or it is, because you
still do.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
It, certainly, certainly not as much as I did during
law school. So doing pro bona work, you know, part
of it was, you know, I want to experience, like
you know, and I wanted to get out of the classroom,
like what what is this real? What it really is
the practice of law? You know, we read all these

(56:26):
you know, one hundred year old cases, but what what
does that mean today? Right? So it's kind of that
was that was part of it. And then you know,
after kind of doing shadowing a couple of attorneys, you know,
doing that first couple of times, that just you know,
saw gratitude, a lot of gratitude, you know, because people

(56:48):
just they didn't they just didn't know and they don't
know because it's not taught in school. So it's not
even it's not even taught in law school. Actual, well,
intellectual property isn't required class in law school. Unless you
take that you know, specific elective, you won't know that
information either. So just yeah, being able to use your

(57:08):
specialized knowledge to kind of give back. I think I
think that's really the duty of really everybody to to
some degree your either your knowledge or your talents to
give back at least kind of just as you're able. So,
you know, in law school, I was able to you know,
to do over five hundred hours. That's that was a lot.

(57:30):
And some of that was working for judges. You know,
governments don't have the best budget, and I didn't I
didn't care whether I was paid. I wanted to work
with that judge and I wanted to learn from that judge.
So learning, yeah, learning about experience, you know, about how

(57:51):
to actually practice law, getting out of the classroom, and
also just kind of seeing the benefit of that work.
And actually, I think that's what really makes at least
intellectual properly all really unique compared to a lot of
other practice areas. I get to see my work outside
of work so whenever you know my clients and you

(58:15):
know the businesses and stuff they're growing, they're uh having
having the different events and just it's rewarding. It's rewarding,
which kind of, you know, further further insights my passion
and also just I think makes makes me a lot
more relatable to my clients because I'm again I'm growing

(58:37):
with them.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
M Yeah, you said that earlier, that you're growing with
your clients, and I thought that that was really I
think that that's really nice because you can go through
a lot of the experiences together and and they're not
not doing it alone. I think that's really really cool.
Something I like to learn from my uh from my
guest is about a mantra or a statement that you

(59:00):
you live by. And I'm interested in in yours as
to any type of mantra or statement that you live by,
and if any, what the meaning is for you.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
I don't know about a specific mantra, but one thing
that's always stuck with me for really long as I
can remember is my intention to learn. I want to
learn everything. I don't care whether it's usaul or not.
I just I just want to know if I can
know everything and I have that choice, I would choose.

(59:36):
I would choose that, you know, all all the you know, big,
big questions in the universe, I'd love to know. Is
that really helpful for me, you know, in a practical,
every day a scenario. Not really. But that's that's part
of who I am. Lifelong student and I think to

(59:56):
a pretty big, you know degree, I think most entrepreneurs
need to be in order to you know, could have
their businesses continue continue growing, being successful. And you know, well,
especially with the pandemic, a lot of businesses how to pivot,
and unfortunately a lot of them couldn't for whatever reason,
so they closed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Yeah, I think I think that that's a really great
quality to have to be a lifelong learner. It's it's
it's the quality of leaders to always be learning, to
always be wanting to learn at more and and acquire
more knowledge and especially apply the knowledge. And and I
think that there's always a context to apply knowledge. It's funny,
it's like, uh, you know, I always ask these questions

(01:00:41):
to myself of you know, what am I getting out
of this? Like, but but you get so much Like
I mean, it's just really like where do you get
to use it? Is really what it comes down to, right,
and the examples and everything. So I love that that
mantra for you. I want to get a little personal
with you and have a little fun with you. I
know that you enjoy way visiting different restaurants and and

(01:01:02):
have a big passion for that and traveling and checking
out new places. Tell us some some stories in terms
of that, like what what is your favorite restaurant, where
is it? How did you find it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
I think one of my favorite restaurants in Nashville is
The Girl Cheesery. I was like, that's kind of interesting thing,
you like, let's check this out. It's uh, it's kind
of a banderbilt and I don't I think I was
just kind of driving a wall and then just happened
to see it actually because you know, new to the
city and everything. But I just like kind of like

(01:01:37):
in slectual property in the restaurant thing, I keep going
back there. I just I just like it. I think
it used it used to be a food truck and
then they've you know, since expanded into a couple of
different branches. But it's just kind of I don't know,
unique name and just kind of like a kind of
a fifties diner feel, but with kind of more modern

(01:01:58):
industrial look, I guess I would say, but I just
kind of like that environment. But you know, there are
a lot of other great restaurants in Nashville too. I mean,
almost every day it seems like something news popping up,
and I've I haven ever long list of things that
people have told me, Oh, you need to go to this,
you need to go to this. So that's I think

(01:02:19):
one of the one of definitely one of the perks
of you know, being in Nashville, all the all the
great stuff that's happening there, especially with restaurants and stuff
like that, and there's yeah, always something to do, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
That's cool. That's cool. And my last question for you
is where do you see the future of Purple Fox.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
That's a hard question. When I think about the future
for for myself, for my company, I sort of I
don't see a linear path. I see sort of like
a web of possibilities and you know what of more
likely versus what I you know, kind of more the

(01:03:03):
direction I want to go in. I think that I
don't want Purple Fox to become anything corporate like I
think I want it to remain you know, maybe small
to medium firm. And I'm actually licensed in New York
as well, so put potentially a physical expansion into New York,

(01:03:28):
but you know, employees and stuff like that, and just
kind of also just I would like to remain within
the small business and entrepreneurship community. I think they're left
behind a lot in a lot of different ways. Actually,
especially female entrepreneurs, you know, in terms of like you know,

(01:03:50):
venture capital and things like that. There's just statistically less
likely to get those sorts of things, and they're there's
kind of a gap between you know, what they need
versus what sort of the majority of the legal industry provides.
And I think Purple Fox helps bridge that gap to degree.

(01:04:13):
And you know, I want to help people continue doing
amazing things.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
I love that. That's beautiful. What what's the best way
for people to find you, whether it's on social media
or on the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
So people can find me on our website Purplefoxleegal dot com.
Uh And actually we have a number of resources, while
articles and ebooks that I think will be very informative
for your audience. There's there's one that's really popular called
the Legal Risk of Social Media. Definitely check that out
and also, you know on social media all all the

(01:04:52):
things Facebook, Instagram, at at Purple Fox you'll you'll find us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
That's awesome. Yeah, so the Legal Risk of social Media.
Download that ebook. It's at Purplefox Legal. It's been awesome
having you on the show today. I love I love
your logo, I love your branding. I went on your website.
It's a lot of fun. Get to learn a little
bit about you and what you do. Really really cool.
It's been awesome having.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
You on today. Thank you for in buying me really great.
I think we had a really great conversation. Your audience
take away a lot of knowledge nuggets from today.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Thank you for listening to The Michael Esposito Show. For
show notes, video clips, and more episodes, go to Michael
Esposito Inc. Dot com backslash podcast. Thank you again to
our sponsor dan ten Insurance Services, helping businesses get the
right insurance for all their insurance needs. Visit Denten dot
io to get a quote that's d n ten dot

(01:05:48):
io and remember when you buy an insurance policy from Denten,
you're giving back on a global scale. This episode was
produced by Uncle Mike at the iHeart Studios in Poughkeepsie.
Special well thanks to Lara Rodrian for the opportunity and
my team at Michaels postel Ink my guest today