Unleashing Human Connection in Sales with Kayvon Kay

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
Hello all, my entrepreneurs and business leaders, and welcome to
the Michael Esposito Show, where I interview titans of industry
in order to inform, educate, and inspire you to be great.
Hello all, my entrepreneurs and business leaders, and welcome to
the Michael Esposito Show where I interview titans of industry
in order to inform, educate, and inspire you to be great.

(00:43):
My guest today is a visionary founder and the architect
of human centric selling, rising from the brink of bankruptcy
to building a thirty eight million dollar empire in just
eighteen months. He's revolutionized sales by transforming it from a
strategy into a way of life. His approach is reshaping

(01:08):
the sales landscape, emphasizing genuine connections over transactions. As a
keynote speaker and a trainer to over fifty thousand sales
reps across more than one hundred countries. He is not
just changing the game, he's setting a new standard for
how sales is done. Please welcome the founder and visionary

(01:33):
leader of the Sales Connection, Caveon K. Welcome to the
show man.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
So for our listeners, you're not going to see this,
but for those of you on YouTube who are going
to see this beautiful, this beautiful episode that we have,
I have a sty in my eye and so therefore
my right eye is like partially closed. But don't worry.
I have not injured myself. To put that out as
the disclaimer for everyone, I just want to get that

(02:03):
out of the way, and I want to jump in
to your story, Caveon you. I watched a lot of
your YouTube videos on your sales mastery and your sales skills.
I've heard some interviews that you've done, and I think
it was like a good morning show in Los Angeles,
the La La Show, and in it you really do

(02:25):
emphasize the idea of relationship before even sales. You even
talk about people, people's trust, and so of course we're
going to talk about your sales experience. How you learned
all of these techniques on how to build great solid
relationships in order to gain trust and make sales. But

(02:48):
what I think i'd like, where I'd like to start
is I'd like to get to know where did you
come from and how did you start this progression in
your career of sales.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I know the day because I've done a lot
of work of all my past and I know the day.
You know, when when I became a salesperson or knew
that I was selling. I would say, when I was
grade one, like you know, kindergarten, they diagnosed me, you know,
to add eighty HD learning disabilities, reading, writing, math, and communication.

(03:22):
What was left like fized. They said that I was
in a I grew up a very very small town,
like you know, racist and all that, and uh, they
said I'd be in jail, be taught before I even
graduated elementary school or work in the factory. And it
was the same story in high school and even in
university in college and I got through all of that,
But my entire life I was just I was selling.

(03:45):
I was I was like the idea of just selling
people wrong, like you're wrong about me. So I just
felt like I was always in this You know, fight
or flight. I was in a fight. I was just
in this coming always from this praise of survival. And
I think when you from a place of survival, you're
it's it's a it's a form of selling, right, You're
you're you're you're fighting and you're selling your way in. So, uh,

(04:08):
I just knew that I was different. I knew that
this regular school system was not for me. I knew
I wasn't going to be Uh. I was never going
to be able to go work in a corporation or
work as an employee or a nine to five like
that was just doesn't even work with me. So uh,
I always got sales job started. My uncle was a
a a salesperson in furniture. He was he was selling

(04:31):
furniture at a young like I was like ten years old,
and he'd bring me in on the weekends and I'd
watch him sell, and I just still remember today like
people would be like he was like the top sales
guy there. And you know, back then you think about
a big kind of warehouse, like it's a huge building
and people would walk in and like scream his name,
and he was always just like I seeing signing deals,

(04:52):
always just getting him, and people were always happy shaking hands,
and I was like, that's like what a great feeling,
Like I want to do that. I didn't know what
that was, right, I didn't know what sales was back then,
but I knew I wanted to do that. So when
I was, you know, eighteen nineteen, got my first jobs
in retail kind of selling, and then I got into
my passion sport, which was skiing. So I got into

(05:14):
like repping ski companies, Rossy, Dinosaur or some of the
big manufacturers, and then from there got into mortgages, and
then I got into real estate and finally finished my
career I would say my corporate career as the number
one pharmacutical rep for the largest company in the world,

(05:35):
and a lot of things in between that, but my
entire career has been nothing but sales.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
When you were talking about your days back in school,
you mentioned that teachers tagged you as not being able
to achieve and I don't know if if you said
diagnosed or not undiagnosed ADS diagnosed diagnosed, Yeah, diagnosed ADHD.
We're gonna have fun today in this podcast.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
What's that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Always pop around with our ADHD entrepreneurs, which typically is
a trait of ours.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
It is, it really is.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
I'm interested in the mindset shift that you had to
not allow what they were saying to you to hold
you back, because there's a choice that was made there,
whether it was conscious or unconscious, and the choice was
to cower in a corner and just say, you know what,
this is who I am, and this is who they
tell me I am, and I'm a failure and I'm

(06:32):
never going to achieve more or to make a choice
and to excel and to prove them wrong, essentially. So
I'm interested in that mindset shift for you.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, I mean I can't. It would be a lie
if I could sit here and say that in grade
one I have this mind shift. You know, that'd be
such a lie. But I think what I can say,
which I had an inner fight, I had an inner
energy in me. I was full of pisson vinegar, like
full of pissing vinegar, and and I had a big

(07:03):
chip on my shoulder. So it was it was I
didn't I didn't come from the place of, oh, they're right,
and I'm going to break. I came from a place of, oh, yeah,
let me prove you. I'm going to prove you wrong, right,
And that's kind of the mentality I've always had, was
like the underdog is truly the underdog, right, and it's overplayed.
The underdog story is definitely overplayed, but this truly is

(07:24):
where I was coming from, is kind of the underdog position.
And what kept me in the game was there was
no other choice, right, Like I was in this small town.
My parents didn't come like I always say this to
respect my parents. They did the best they could with
the circumstances they had, and it wasn't many. It wasn't much, right,
So for me, it was you can't dream in towns

(07:46):
like that, right, There was no dreaming. It was it
was it was your typical You're other going to graduate
and you're going to become the doctor and everyone's going
to praise you. You're going to be the lawyer and
everyone's going to respect you. You're going to be the teacher,
and people are just going to be like, okay, right,
when am I missing a lawyer? Doctor, teacher? And whatever?
Another one and then the fifth one was you're going
to be working in the factory where everyone disrespects, even

(08:08):
throws you know, shit at you, right, And they said,
I wasn't even gonna make it the factory, right, And
my dad worked at that factory, right, and I knew
a place was definitely not Like I was never going there.
Like the people were raised in my town that that
was their life. Like I grew up with people. They
still work at that factory now. God Like I love it,
like I respect it and I honor it. But I

(08:30):
look at it and go like, because of that small town,
it just ripped people's dreams. And for me, I don't
know what it was. I just knew like I needed
to get out. And as soon as I graduated, I
left and I never came back. And the funny thing is,
as soon as I graduated, my parents left and they
never went back. Right. They were just there for me.
Through high school. I was playing football. They didn't want

(08:51):
me to pull out, right, I got a university football
scholarship whatnot, So they didn't want to pull me out,
you know in my you know, my midd of high school.
So even in high school, I remember teachers just like
being just rude, ignorant, uh racist, And you know, there
was only the one There was like the one or
two teachers in my career that believed in me and

(09:11):
that was enough for me. That was enough for me
to keep going on the days that were hard, but
it was challenging, like it was. I can't express to
some people because I can't put into words because I
only like going back there. How painful school was for me,
like every single day having to sit in that damn classroom,

(09:32):
being taught by some average teachers that doesn't know shit
about anything, being taught a curriculum that's only, you know,
there to make you become an employee. And yet everyone's
praising this thing, is that this is the best thing
in the fucking world. I don't know if we swear
I'm sorry, you're getting it's okay, right, and I'm like,
you get me going now, you got me going now?

(09:54):
So yeah, But the mindset and I think there's like,
here's the here's the reality. Because this is very important
for business, and it's really important for entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs and
people are thinking about going. There's two types of people
in the world, Like there's always everyone says that, but
in this in this case, there's two types of people
in world. There's the type of people that when the
ship gets going or someone has a gun to your head.

(10:16):
Type A break down, they fold, right, they can't, they
get become paralyzed. Type B. When they're backs against the wall,
they fight, they do better, Like some people can perform
better when the backs against their wall. And that's me,
Like I'm a type B guy. So like I've always
came from that survival and I always I've never backed
down because like, because backing down, what do you have,

(10:38):
Like like you're gonna quit. Winners never quit, and quitters
never like you know, like winners never quit, quoters never win.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
So I just knew that. And again, lucky with my sports,
I grew up ski racing, like it's competitive, very competitive.
And then we're talking about milliseconds, right, and I and
I had one of those old school coaches, like at
that time, he was probably seventy, I was like eight
nine years old, and he was, you know, hitting you,
like literally hitting you and breaking bamboo sticks off your
ass if you weren't you know, listening. But it was

(11:11):
you know, some people were like, oh, it's abuse. No,
that was the best thing for me. That was the
actually the only thing that changed my life. Wow, I
changed my life so much before that. Prior to that,
I was at the principal's office every single day that
my mom was picking me up three four times a
week from school. The moment I got in a ski

(11:31):
race and then met this this this coach, the principal
called my mom and and said, and my mom goes, yeah, yeah,
I know, okay, I'll just give me a second. I
got to, you know, leave work, and he was like, no, no,
I'm telling you. Whatever you're doing at home is working.
We haven't seen cave on here in like a week.
Because now I had something to lose and I had

(11:51):
something to you daydream about, like I had something I
was passionate about, so I can I can leave the
world that I was in and going to a dream
land of every weekend. And that's kind of what I did.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
And I'm assuming that was a big discipline for you too.
Like you so you're saying this guy was, you know,
cracking a whip on you.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Right, But this is where some discipline started entering your life.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Massive discipline. This is actually the first time I probably
met discipline.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
And I think for people. So I'm not diagnosed ADHD,
but I'm dyslexic and I've I've had my issues of
being I guess thought of as ADHD in terms of
like not paying attention and all the school problems myself
as well. And you know, I've I've gone through a
couple of schools because of my my disciplinary problems, which
are when you think about it, are our disciplinary problems.

(12:39):
They weren't like we were breaking the law. We just
were being contrary to our teachers and what.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Was Yeah, and I was the same way. I love
that you said that I was never a bad kid,
like the bad kid breaking the law, being so disrespectful
or going across that line. I was just the busy kid.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it happens with discipline. I almost
equate that to uh meditation. And I don't know if
you're a meditator or not, but the discipline or the disciplinarian,
what they're doing is they're helping us through through a
very challenge, through through a tough way of loving us.
Right they're they're they're helping us create that moment, that

(13:21):
gap of time to make a decision, and we're because
it's it's tough discipline. Like what you're explaining, your your
gap of time is saying do I want to get
hit or or make the right.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Decision or do I want to let let my mentor
down or myself down or that, Like I wasn't afraid
about like getting hit. I want to make sure it
wasn't like so crazy abuse here, right, Right, I just
I remember getting hit by a bamboo once and I
never did that again, right, And yeah, it was it
was more at that point, if I go back, it

(13:52):
was actually more of not wanting to let myself or
my coach down. So again, it was something bigger than me.
It's always been of them bigger than me. So it
was providing. I was gonna say, I always felt like
internally that I was meant for more. Yeah, I just
didn't know. I didn't know how to tap into it.
I didn't know what that.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Was, right, And that discipline kind of gave you that
that time to be able to start seeing that. And
I like that you said that something that was bigger
than you. I want to break down a couple of
things that you mentioned in everything that you just said there.
We're definitely going to talk about the two types of people.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
There's a great book called Mindset by Carol Dweck, and
they get into the two types of people. So we're
going to talk about.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
That well fixed in the right yeah, fix.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
And growth mindset. So we're going to talk about that.
I want to just stay in the school place for
a second here, only because you mentioned something more than
once and so I'm very curious about it. And then
we'll move on from there and jump into the two mindsets.
You mentioned racist a few times in the school and
so I just want to point a few things out

(14:55):
to our listeners here. Is that you you're in Canada,
and so I don't know where you are in you'll
you'll describe that for us, and racism in the States
is obviously a little bit different than maybe racism in Canada. Yeah,
you look kind of like me, So I'm curious as
to what racism was like for you.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, Uh, I'm Persia. My parents,
I'm you know, my family was Persian Iranian and we
grew up in a small town. I just I don't
want to say the town. I don't want to disrespect
my people, but it was a very small town in
northern Ontario, sure, and it was all you're basically white
or you're Italian. That was it. You know, Italians, and

(15:32):
there are the most racist kind of people, you know,
one of them. And I'm not saying that, like you know,
it's just culturally whatever, or at least there.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Culturally in that town.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
There any Italian listening. I'm not disrespecting. I love I
actually love like I mean, I grew up in that culture.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
You're speaking about the people that were racist towards you
in that town, and that's what.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
You're saying exactly, and that's fair. Yeah, and and uh yeah,
that was what what like I try to blend in
as one because you can't, you know, I can maybe
pass off as one, but assume as I.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Said you, I said, you kind of look like me
and I'm half Italian, so you know, it was funny.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, it was funny because growing up it was. It
wasn't actually until you know, you do the therapy, right
and you and you go back your past and you
talk to experts. Growing up, I always thought like there
was always this energy. There was always this like eyes
on you, looking down on you, not getting invited to
the best parties, not because you're not because you weren't cool.
How it wasn't because I was cool. It was because

(16:23):
of where I came from, right, and I always thought
that was because my parents weren't rich, Like my dad
wasn't a business owner, he wasn't the doctor, he wasn't
the lawyer. He wasn't in that cool crowd. I call it, right,
the cool crowd. So so all my life that's where
my fire was. I'm going to become rich and I'm
going to become wealthy. I'm never going to live like
that again. Nobody's gonna let me be part of that

(16:43):
crowd ever again, right right, find out I don't actually
want to be part of that crowd when you get older. Yeah,
but the side side note, But it wasn't until I
realized it wasn't actually that it was. It was a
little bit of that, but it was actually them being
racist to being the only Persian. I was the only
Persian family there, only Persian kid. So when when you know,
I lee cave on fucking mesada, Like what is that? Right?

(17:04):
Like that's a that's you know, that's a lot of words,
so U lusarius syllables and uh, and yeah, that's what
it was. It was like that in elementary and it
was like that in high school. Uh. And then when
I got out and went to college, University. It was
a little bit like that, but nothing crazy. But there's
racism every against every culture, not just that, you know,

(17:25):
I know you were thinking the United States, we think racism,
we think racism towards black people, but there's like racisms
of all different cultures, of all different types. Yeah. Now,
I now, I want to sit here because I want
to be able to I want to make sure that
I'm not sounding like a victim, because I don't think
i'm nearly. I was not in a position where I
know some people who have faced racism in different areas,

(17:46):
and and like you said, in the United States, like
I'm sure that was one hundred times worse than what
I had to go through, But I went through my
version of it, and my version of it stung enough.
It was enough for me for to you know, cripple
me in some cases and empower me in others. Well.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, I mean, anytime someone's getting put down, however they're
being put down, it still affects our psyche. And racism
shows itself in many ways. And I mean I follow
all spectrums of color and culture and diversity, and people
who have had the worst racism towards them are racist

(18:23):
towards others themselves sometimes and so it's part of, I guess,
the evolution of humanity. But I don't think you sound
like a victim. And here's why, and I think it's
important for everybody to hear this, is that we went
back into when you were in a place where you
are being held back and where everything around you is
telling you that you can't achieve more. And so what

(18:46):
we're identifying here is what those people were doing and
how they were doing it. And so they were doing
it in multiple ways. They were tagging you as you
can't develop, you can't grow. And here's why. It's because
of how you are in school, It's because of your behavior,
it's because of your culture, it's because of the way
you look. And so that's what we're addressing here, and

(19:07):
it's not something that I think that you are today.
So obviously that that comes across very clear because of
what you're doing today. The next thing that you mentioned
is there's two types of people. And it's so true
because when you already kind of know where we're going
with this about the two types of people and the
book Mindset by Carol Dweck, and it's when we say

(19:28):
there's two types of people. You could say in so
many different ways. Like you mentioned, there's people that quit,
or there's people that fight. There's the learner, there's the
non learner, there's the growth.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
There's always different types.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
But what's true about all of it no matter whoever
you are talking about this And I'd love for us
to expand on this because this goes into sales too.
Is like when you could figure out where somebody's at
and what they are and what they're liking, and what
their ideals are and what they value, that's when you
could really start positioning your self in a good place
for a sale.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
And so anyway, yeah, so I want to correct that though.
I would because because that's what most sales people would say,
position yourself for the right sound no, no, no, it
allows you to connect to the prospect so you can
serve them, right.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah, totally different.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Well, it's and I'm gonna I'm gonna defend my point
only because I didn't mean it in the sense of
the strategy. I'm gonna say that towards you that exactly
and exactly what you're saying, and right on with what
you're saying. When I'm saying position, it's it's find that
way to connect, Like how can you connect? And if
you could figure out people's personalities and where they land,

(20:39):
that's when you could figure out how to connect with them.
Because that's what we're connecting on. We're connecting on that
personality level.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, write that down. We'll talk about that later. For personalities,
I'll tell you all about that. Yeah. Connect.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well, let's let's get right into the four personalities, because
we're we're.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Kind of there right there.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, I mean we're eighty d why not we're Yeah,
we're already there talking about the two types of people.
And what I wanted to just say about the two
types of people, and I think you'll agree with this,
is that really all of them, they your non learners,
your your fixed mindsets, your people who quit. They're in
the mindset of there's no more for me. It's a

(21:14):
closed off mindset, and it's a it's that the quit
is I'm not learning anymore. I'm stuck here.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
It's scarce, Like it's scarce. It's scarcity versus a scarce mindset. Yeah,
and you can't have scarcity as an entrepreneur like you
can you cannot like, yeah, because you'll you'll find it
everywhere if you do. And I say that because I
had that, Like starting out was so challenging because of
my scarce mindset and I and I deal with it
every day, Like I literally wake up every day and
I make the decision do I want to choose scarcity

(21:42):
or do I want to choose abundance? Because I know
if I choose scarcity, the chances of me being successful
that day are probably zero, but when I choose abundance,
they're higher. And uh, and it's a decision, and it's
just a decision you have to make.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
So let's identify that. Identify that in terms of your
storytelling of of what scarcity looks like for you in
that moment, because we all go through that, right, So
what did that look like for you?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, I mean not enough leads, everyone's there's there's so
many there's so much competition out there. Uh, there's not
enough people in the world. There's not enough people in
my market. What Like, there's so many versions of scarcity, right,
Like there's there's not there's not many, no more real
estates to be picked up whatever whatever it is, right

(22:25):
versus like the abundant and you know, in my sure
it's like, for instance, when I started UH our our
second company, which is a sales connection, which was agencies
UH builliing sales departments in my niche world internet marketing, UH,
there was like maybe three four competitors out there was

(22:46):
being one of them being top you know top two UH.
Today the mount that come across my desk, I probably
get two. It Like I'm telling you, there's hundreds, hundreds
of them. So in my mind, I can go, all
these guys are coming out of nowhere, They're going to
take all the people out there. Or I go, that's great,
there's more because there's no way even all of them

(23:09):
that are coming out can actually service every single business
that needs us. So there's a huge difference there. I
don't look at my compet like I used to look
at my competition Scarce people look at their combination, at
their competition and say I want to beat them, I
want to dominate them. I look at my competition, I say,
how do we collaborate? How can we win same industry.

(23:29):
I actually just talked to literally my direct competitor. I
had a call with him yesterday. He grabs a client
and I'm like, and I call him to congratulate him
because he posted on social and grab a massive client,
like bigger than I've ever big like bigger than I've
ever got. So I wanted to call him and say congrats.
First thing he says, you want in hell, yeah, man,

(23:51):
let's go right like that. That's abundance versus scarcity. A
scarce business owner first wouldn't even call him. We'd be like, ah, right.
And then on the other end, it takes two people
to play tangle right, like to pay that though right,
And then on his end he could have had scarcy
and be like, yeah, thanks man, appreciate it. By he
had him butt in minds, I go, I have so

(24:12):
many leads for this new client. We're talking thousands a day,
like thousand new leads a day. He's like, I can't
handle all this. He's like, I would love for you
to come in awesome. Let's collaborate, not dominate, not compete.
We collaborate. And that's when I realized. When I was so,
when I was in the top ten percent, I was
competing with everybody. When I got to the top one percent,

(24:35):
like the five percent I got, I was dominant. I
was like I'm not competing anymore. I'm going to dominate.
And I was like, but how do I get into
that one one like point zero zero one percent? And
I realized it's not about competition, about domination, it's all
about collaboration.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Define competition in your eyes, I mean me against you,
I'm going to win. Yeah. So many people in sales,
I think, look at competition, like you said, as a
bad thing. And the other perspective I have of competition
is it and I think you mentioned it in the
story that you just shared, is that there's there's abundant

(25:11):
in that market. So if you were to look at
starting a business and there's no competition in that market,
there's no other companies doing it, I mean that's a
great thing, right, because then there's an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
For you in this world if you find and if
you find a market where there's no business and nobody
is serving and please call me, well we'll do it.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, right, of course, right that market, but that means
that there's a there's a great opportunity to serve it, right,
So you have a great opportunity. But on the other
side of that, which is which is what you're speaking to,
which is the more likely side is that if you're
starting a business and you look and you see that
that place is flooded, it's got a lot in it
to me or or what we're talking about in terms
of competition, what that competition is telling us is that, Wow,

(25:51):
there are a lot of people here because there are
a lot of people that need to be serviced, and
so therefore I have an opportunity to create.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
So yeah, I love that. So I'll tell you I'll
tell you another example of it, because I know we
got time here. When I was in pharmaceutical sales my
first year, I knew it was that's a big game.
I'm playing with the big boys, which I thought at
that point, I was like, I'm going to that. I
thought I was going to the NHL. Literally, I was like,
I'm going to the NHL. Of sales got in there.
There are a bunch of dinosaurs. But my first year,

(26:21):
I mean I had a thousand different skews, two hundred
and fifty different locations that I had to drive to.
That's a lot, like, that's a lot of volume and relationships.
I was competing about relationships for ten fifteen years. Relationships.
So my first year, I had my head. I was like,
I'm not, I'm not. I knew. I knew I wasn't
going to be number one. You can't. I just knew

(26:42):
it because it just the sales cycle of the industry.
It's not a limiting belief. It was a reality and
the relationships that it was going to take time to infiltrate.
So my first year I didn't ask for a sale.
I just I just maintained what was given to me
because we had a book of business and all I

(27:03):
did was build relationships. So the numbers come out and
you know, I'm in the top three four right, and
everyone's like, ah, how did you do that? Right? Peer relationship?
Did I talk call my manager jan first, I said,
I'm going to compete, now watch me. She's like, I
know you will. So then I started doing some selling
and making sales, and at the end of the year,

(27:23):
I was like one hundred and ten percent to the budget.
Everyone saying like, say one hundred max, maybe one oh one.
And then by the time it was like my third
or fourth year, I called her and she's like I know.
I'm like, this is the year. She's like, I know,
one hundred and forty five percent that's domination. When no
one else got to one hundred percent. That that's what
domination is. That's what competition is. To me, like that's

(27:45):
what beating, like somebody is right and then and then yeah,
so god By, where I was going with that is
I found a way. You know, I don't want to
get into details because it's just doesn't matter. But I
found a way to be successful in that specific industry.
And what I was doing. I was trying to go

(28:07):
to my own team, so my own team members, and
I was like, guys, let's sit down. I want to
help you all. I want to help you all. I
want to show you what I'm doing so you're not
working as hard. And you guys can get your numbers
because it doesn't matter if they get thro one hundred
and forty. We all get paid. I don't care, Like
as long as I'm one hundred and forty, if you're
a hundred forty, I'll bee hundred forty one. I just
want to be number one. But like, but like this gap,

(28:28):
why we have such a gap. It's never good to
have a gap like that because you also get a
target in your back, of which I did. So my guys,
my entire team. They were so scarce mindset as old farts,
not growth mindsets. Instead of saying, this young guy obviously
has something he's willing us to show, they said no,

(28:48):
and they went to the competition and they would sit
with the competition my own team members at an ihop
because there are dinosaurs eating breakfasts, they're baking and eggs
and trying to come up with schemes to get me
not fired out of the industry. They start spraying rumors,
spraying all this shit. Insane, it's crazy. That's the difference

(29:10):
between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. Between somebody
that want like abundance scarcity. Fixed mindset, people live in
scarcity because it's fixed. They're not willing to grow because
they're they're scarce. It's it's it's contained, right. Growth mindset
people believe in abundance. There's growth, there's more room to grow,
there's more abundance to live, there's more things to achieve.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
And and let's let's stay with the with these these
personality types that you were going to get into, which
is the four personality types, because I think that that's
also going to help in terms of this conversation that
we're having.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, so I'll say this because you I mean, I've
done them all. There's there's like, there's so many, like
the Meyers bricks. Then you got gemstones are called they
were just called gemstones, and then you have the colors,
and then you have the disc there's there they are
like so many, and they break them up, break them up,
break them up in a million different you know, with
some people like there's six, sometimes there's eight, sometimes there's thirty.

(30:05):
I actually and out of all of them, if you
look at all of them foundationally, if you look at
all of them, there's actually only four. There only four
types of people in this world. Now, before I say
anything more, I understand that people have a mix of it, uh,
very sullenly. We have someone who's like half and half,
but you they're they're there. But if you understand the four,
then you'll understand how to speak to these people. You

(30:27):
understand how to connect to them. And I'll tell you
what they are. So they're they're not sexy names. I
just think of them as regular people. Okay, So the
first person is what you call is the CEO. That's
the executive leader, that's that's that's what people like. It
would be in color red. It'd be color red, it'd
be high D dominance. Uh, it'd be I don't know
and ian and she'd be like Myers Briggs. There's so

(30:48):
many letters. I don't know which one is there. But
that's the person where when you're speaking to them, you
bet you better know your shit. You better be direct,
if you're if you're meeting them in person, you better
be dressing sharp, not be late, not just shoot the ship.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
These are CEOs. Think about that CEOs. The second type
of person, uh is what I call is the life
of party. They're there and and people people think they
I know that people have this negative connotation to it.
I don't have a negative connotation it. To me, it
is like their life of the party, meaning they're the dreamers.
They're they're they're they're the visionaries. They're the ones that

(31:23):
they live in the they live in the future. They're excited.
If you go to them with facts and figures, you're
going to weigh them down. They don't want. The don't want.
They don't want to get caught up in the minutia.
They're not they like they no send that to my CEO.
They're the ones where you're going to talk about. Man,
what's going to look like when you imagine, imagine all

(31:44):
the people when you're on stage right, think about all
the you know, that's that's how you kind of speak
with them. The third person, uh, is what I call
is the mother Teresa's. Now, did you notice something when
I said mother Teresa?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
H Yeah, your voice changed?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Of course exactly because I've trained my brain to and
my brain to know when I speak to a mother teresays,
I got to speak a little bit more sincere softer
because mother teresays are all about impact. Sure they might
care a little bit about the numbers, but nowhere near
as the impact that they're going to make. So when

(32:22):
I'm speaking to a mother Teresa and I'm trying to
connect to a mother Teresa, I'm not talking like this
because if I talk like this my regular self, I'm
gonna they're going to crush them. You will crush them.
They'll melt. It's like they'll melt. Right, So you got
to soften and you got to connect even more. Now,
you don't do this insincerely. You do this with sincerity

(32:45):
and integrity. But you just do this again. I'm doing
this because I want to connect and help them, and
I want to connect on their level, not because I
want to sell them. The mother teresays, they're all impact.
So if I talk about the money, it's nothing to them.
But if I talk about we'll think about as a
result of the I'm just saying the result of the money,
think about the impact you're going to have. Think about
the people you're going to be able to help, the

(33:05):
things you're going to do, the legacy you're going to
be able to live. And then the fourth one, which
are my my my personal cryptonite just because of my
personality of being very high ey so Life of Party
is my dominant one, uh is engineers. Those are like
I call it the when and I know exactly when
I'm speaking to one of those, because they're the facts.

(33:27):
They're the figures, guys, they're exactly they're they're ESP especially
specifically and precisely that's what I call it ESP. They
are the ones that when you say hello to them,
they go, you say, hey, how's it going, and you
get this boo boo boo boo boo boop. Their brains
go boom boop, you know, and then I go, ah,
I'm doing good. How are you there? Because the way

(33:49):
they take information in is that can you imagine, it's
like a computer, like it comes into their brain and
it just it has to go in the right areas.
The brain has to compute it all. So when you're
speaking with them or you got to know your facts
and you better know your figures. And you cannot talk
about the dream because more engineers they're risk adverse. They
know they can't see the future. They see there right now,
the actual Oh yeah, sorry, are you there?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, you're still there?

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, sorry, my computer went black because I haven't.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Been on and but I got and they're factual.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
We're back. Yeah. So those are the four personalities and
uh and when you know how to communicate with them,
then you'll know how to connect with them. And you
know how to connect with them, you'll know how to
serve them.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah. And you know you did it with the mother
Teresa one, which is exactly what we were talking about
earlier about you know, I used the word positioning and
maybe not the best word for it, but what we're
saying here and I like that you you said it
is having sincerity and authenticity. I speak about this with
with my communication courses and public speaking courses, many new speakers,
many new even salespeople. Right, they they confuse the way

(35:00):
that they speak with imposter syndrome and think, well, that's
not me, that's not who I am. And the truth
is and here's what I love and I was taught
this by by one of my communication mentors, is if
it's coming from your voice, and it's coming from you,
then it's you. And so while you you know, if
you're doing it insincerely, which is which really speaks to

(35:23):
your intentions. So if your intention is to go into
that nurturer, that caring, that sincerity voice of mother, mother
to reason, speak calmly and nicely and sweetly, and your
intention is to deceive, well then yeah this is wrong.
But if your intention is to connect, which is what
you said, and I love that. If your intention is

(35:45):
to connect because you know that by speaking from that
CEO high intense level, that you know that if you
speak to that you're just gonna push them away, well
then you are truly living in who you are, and
you can take that imposter syndrome and say, hey, look
look this is who I am. This is coming from
my voice and from my heart and my intention is
to serve, which you said earlier. So I love all

(36:06):
of that. I was kind of playing a game with
myself as you were going through all of them, because
you were like CEO and then you went through the
rest of them and your mother Teresa engineer, and I
was like, all right, who's what? And it's interesting because
you have the CEO, which is exactly what you described there.
The next one is your founder, is your visionary? Is
your founder? Well, it was like the life of the party,
the party. Yeah, that's your founder, mother Teresa. Those are

(36:29):
your HR executives. Like if you're looking at HR right,
so those are your HR executives. So when you're when
you're speaking in sales, those are your mother Teresa's your
HR executives. There are the ones who is just like.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
That.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
They're the nurtures. They want to know that the benefits
are right for the company, for the client. They want
to know that they're in the right role and all
that other stuff. And your engineers there, they're your CFOs
and your engineers rightfo A're your CTOs there, Yeah, they're
your tinkers. And what's great about you breaking it up
like this and then going into the different executive levels

(37:03):
is for everybody listening, and I want to get into
your sales strategies because that's what you do. This is
what you train on. This is how you've built your
empire and how you've built others as well. Is when
you could figure out these personality types. And what we
were talking about earlier is that now we know how
to compose an email to them, we know how to
hit them up on LinkedIn. We know maybe LinkedIn's not

(37:24):
the best spot for them because maybe they're more of
that life of the party and maybe it is Facebook,
or maybe it is.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
There's even tools now.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Right, and let's get into that. Let's let's let you take.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
What you just said LinkedIn. So if you're in put, well,
I'll tell you this. If you I don't do business
on LinkedIn. This is not my that's not where my
my client tele is right now. But if you're doing
business on LinkedIn, you need to cut. You need to
have a tool called Crystal knows. So Crystal Knows will
look at the profile automatically. It's all AI, right, and
we'll look at it and it will tell you based

(37:56):
off of their profession, their picture, what they've posted did,
what their job career is, and all these other things
of the type of person they are. Then it will
tell you how to email them. Then it will tell
you what to say in that email, and I'll teach them.
It literally tells you basically how to communicate with them,
what not to say, what to say all that. It's

(38:18):
a no brainer. This is awesome.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Notes that you brought up Crystal knows, and I didn't
know about Crystal Knows, And I think that's awesome. And
I made a note of it for myself because I'm
training right now. I'm training someone right now in sales.
And one of the exercises that we did without even
knowing about this, what you're talking about is you were
going to talk about relationships. We're going to talk about
that in depth in a moment. But I'm a relationship

(38:40):
driven sales type of person. So as i'm training this guy,
his name's Calvin, really great guy. As i'm training him,
i'm training he's young, he's twenty years old, he's in college.
Still I'm training him on how to understand what a
relationship is and how it works in our business. So
what I mean by that is he's selling my keynotes
workshops and coaching services. So it's important that he understands

(39:04):
what do I value. And so, just to kind of
keep this all very simple, I speak about growth a
lot of growth mindset. I speak about communication, sales, and
I speak about leadership. Right, And so when we went
to LinkedIn to find the right prospects and the right companies,
what he and I did together is essentially what you
just said, Crystal knows. We went to profiles and I said,

(39:24):
all right, Kelvin, let's look at this profile. Let's look
at their bio and in it, do they talk about
growth mindset or do they talk about scarcity mindset? And obviously,
and you know, I didn't say it exactly like that,
but I'm just expediting the conversation here. Obviously, the people
that are in scarcity mindset, I'm like Calvin, those don't
fit our mold. We don't want to prospect to them.
I mean, would we get a sale out of them, maybe,
but would we have an impact on them? Probably not.

(39:46):
But the people in the growth mindset who are saying
talent development or or you know, you could see that
they're investing in organizations like yours and others to build
up their sales team or even their leadership team. Those
are the ones we want to speak with. Will we
get to sale, maybe not, but we're speaking the same language,
and when we do get the deal out of the
relationship we're on and we're creating an impact, we're on

(40:07):
the same level. And so we're going to get into
relationships a little bit because it speaks to that relationship
of I want to form relationship with relationships with people
who want to grow, who want to develop. I'll be
more than happy to help the people in a scarcely
mindset shift from there. But when we're talking about prospecting
and I'm helping somebody there, it's really let's find the people.

(40:28):
If we want to make the biggest, greatest impact, let's
find the people that align with our values first. So
I love that you brought that up.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
So get into now more of that relationship side. Because
you were saying that about this crystal nose and then
we're talking about the relationships. Let's get into a little
bit about how you are developing relationships and outside you
said you don't use LinkedIn, So where do you go
to develop these relationships?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Events, masterminds are. If you're a business owner, I'll tell
you this. The biggest miss the biggest mistake I made
after we grew the business from zero to thirty eight million,
and I departed from that business and started my agency
because of the demographic and my service was very very

(41:19):
niche and very very expensive. So it wasn't it wasn't
one of those ones where you can just run Facebook
ads because you just be burning dollars, right. It was
really relationship based. And the biggest mistake I made is
very important, is I thought I have all the relationships,
let's not worry about it, and so we didn't do

(41:39):
any legion. We did no relationship building. And then two
and a half years later we had four of our
top clients, all different things happened to them, Like one
of them, twenty four year old, sold the business multimillions
of dollars. We're out. Second business that we got from

(42:00):
like doing fifty grand a month, they were doing about
five hundred thousand dollars a month. VC company comes and
buys them. First thing they do obviously get rid of
the outside sales team. H third company we were doing
he was doing like two hundred k months, three hundred
k months, he found out his lawyers found out they
were getting defrauded from some company in China. Blah blah
blah blah. Woke up one day, they literally all the

(42:23):
bang everything. They seized everything, the lawyers everything, like we
were locked out of everything. It was just it was
over like within twenty four hours. And that hurts your
business right massively. Like at that point, we lost about
forty to fifty percent of our revenue within like three months.
So I said, all right, good nor let me go

(42:43):
to my network. There was no network. I had my network,
but my network didn't need what I needed, and my
network wasn't big anymore because I didn't do it over
two years. So then we're like, oh shit, what are
we going to do? What are we going to do?
And uh and we're like, let's we got like, well,
let's start going to masterminds. Let's go start going to

(43:03):
the proper events, and uh, well, every event I go to,
every mastermind I go to, I come out with five
or six new relationships, and one of them actually introduces
me to like if I don't make the relationship, if
I don't make a sale at the mastermind, I like,
for instance, I was just out of last Mastermind two
weeks ago, where I was speaking about human centric selling
and there were like weapons in there. No one in

(43:24):
that crowd needed my service, but every one of them
has a massive community and they need my service, and
they introduced like so they introduced me to their people,
and now their people introduce me their people, and all
of a sudden, now I'm speaking to people that want
to do business with me, and I can easily track
that back to that mastermind because like I said, I
would never have met that person without meeting that person,
you know. So I think masterminds and events are very important.

(43:48):
If your business is like ours, where we're an agency model,
we're working in a niche market. If you're like every
day whatever it needs to be, well, then you got
to be here on your Facebook auds, your YouTube ads,
you know, doing your LinkedIn strategy all that. I think.
The other thing too, with the relationships is where you
can win in relationships, which I love especially in the
online world, is people do these one call closed. I

(44:11):
was called the one call Closer in twenty seventeen. I
actually trademarked. I had the trademark. I gave it up
because I was like it's embarrassing. I was trademarked the
one call closer because I could close someone in one call.
I didn't have to build relationships, which I liked. I'm like,
oh great, I don't have to work, I don't have
to do all that energy, just close and boom. And
then then the market changed, right, the market got sophisticated,

(44:31):
and what was great was it was like, all right,
I just go back to what I'm doing. But everyone
that was only learnt the one call close started failing
because they didn't understand the foundation and the fundamentals of sales, which,
at the end of the day, very easy, very simple.
I'm going to tell you the most simplest concept of sales.

(44:52):
People do business with people they like. Period. People do
business with people they like. Your job is to make
sure they know, like and trust you. You got to
make them feel seen, heard and right. And you can

(45:12):
only do that through relationship, like through like building that relationship.
So how do you build relationships? You follow up usually
reach out to them. You don't every time you speak
to them. You're not just trying to make a sale,
you're connecting with them. There's some guys that I would
again I used the farmer for this one, because it

(45:33):
was like, who was my last career where I had
to really build long like real I'm talking like these
relationships you have to create in that in that world,
like I said, people had them for twenty years, fifteen years,
Like that's a that's a like they go to their
kids' weddings, Like how do you compete with How do
you compete with the rep that's going to the kids wedding? Right,
so how do you compete with them? We'll do what

(45:54):
I did in the first year. Every new rep comes
in and what do they do? They try to sell.
I didn't sell. I'm not here to sell you. I'm
just here to learn. I'm here to help you. Whatever
you need. I'm here however I can support you, just
let me know. And it was like almost a pattern interrupt.
I didn't know I was doing it, but it was
a pattern interrupt because they're expecting me to be a
salesperson and I completely wasn't being a salesperson. So now

(46:15):
all of a sudden, they go, what's this guy's interesting? Oh?
People like people who are interested, be interested, be interesting,
and be interested. We can go on forever about this, right,
relationship is a long term game, and people are not
willing to put in the chips for it. They're not willing,
They're not willing to put in the deposits such you
could their relationship deposits. Let's call them relationship deposits, which

(46:38):
is a follow up. So I have I have one
client I'm trying to close. We have a great relationship.
I've had known them for three four years, but now
we're in like you know, I'm now in the sales
process with them, and that's outside our friendship. So I like,
we have a friendship. But then while I'm in the
sales process, and last Friday, I think it was because
it was a couple of weeks since I talked to them.
Last Friday, I just said, hey, just following up. No,

(47:02):
you're busy, not even pressuring you, just making sure you're
not testing my follow up game, because you know I
can do it. Press send, right. He just comes back,
laughing his ass off, And I was like, oh, and
by the way, I was meant to follow up in
two days. I'm just you know, two days earlier and
then two days later. All I just said, following up

(47:23):
as promised. People like, that's it. That's it. People don't
even do.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
That keeping it simple. Yeah, yeah, because I think what
happens and I'll, you know, say, even for myself when
when I think about back in my sales days, we
we think that we need to say more. And what
happens is we get caught in that cycle. Right, You
get caught in a cycle of I think I need
to say more, and so you start overthinking what you

(47:50):
need to say. Then you start responding for the prospect,
and then what happens You freeze and then you don't
even send anything.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Right, I know you're writing, close on, write this down
and jump that, jump, jump on that.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
The less you talk, the more you sell. If you
ain't making sales, start asking questions. Ten ext your questions,
you'll ten next your sales. I'm not saying ten ext
your conversation. I'm not tanaxing your monologues, texting your pictures.
I'm talking about just ten axing your questions. Right, and

(48:26):
how do you how do you build a relationship with someone.
One of the fundamentals, Uh, get them to talk about
them themselves, talk about yourself, get them to talk about
them People love talking about themselves. So ask the questions
if I if you're sitting here and you're you're a
new entrepreneur, maybe even successful entrepreneur, and this is all

(48:48):
good for you. One of the best books, I would say, Uh,
you can two books, how to win friends and influence
people and the speed of Trust.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
You know, the how to win friends because of what
you were talking about in terms of your foundations of
it of the of no like and trust. But what's
the speed of trust? Go ahead?

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Uh, the speed of the speed of trust is how
you get people to trust you quicker. Because if people
and trust you quicker, you can get a deeper relationship.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, and you know that's that's great because I want
to go back to masterminds because that's that's one of
the ways to to expedite trust is to have that
common common ground meeting place. I'm interested. We we hear
a lot. So in terms of networking, you know, you
have your chambers of commerces. I'm a part of Chambers
of commerce, have all those. You have your business associations,
you have all of these, and and for for everybody listening,

(49:38):
get familiar with those, your your business associations and your chambers.
They're going to be great places for you. To shake hands,
rub elbows, learn your your your elevator pitch, if you
want to call it that, but really learn how to
connect with people. Masterminds are at a different level. And
you know, Napoleon hillspeaks first about the mastermind, and we
hear the phrase. We hear the term a lot these days.

(49:59):
And so I'd like if you can kind of describe
what masterminds mean to you and the ones that you're
maybe a part of, in the way of the description
of what they bring it offer.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I'll just say this because it came out through while
you're talking. Right, is your you're in you know the
quote is your net your network is your net worth? Right? So, uh,
masterminds to me, actually the name is overplayed a little
too much from life and and and a good mastermind,
A real mastermind isn't a paid mastermind. Mhm. A real

(50:34):
mastermind is a collective of minds. That's what a mastermind is,
a collective of great minds coming together and supporting each other.
Not uh and I and I say this like I
say this with respect because like it's just the model
and that's what people do. Uh. Not, Hey, pay me
and I'll let you be part of my community. But
that's what masterminds are today, and that's fine, and that's

(50:54):
you know, and that's just the way it is. But
what it is, it's it's it's it's a collective of
entrepreneurial minds and networks coming together. So at the last
mastermind I was at, there was people talking about email marketing,
some of the best people in the world. I would
not know the things I was learning because you can't

(51:15):
be an expert in everything. Uh. I would not know
the deep secrets of email marketing if I didn't pay
to play. And now we're I'm now in rooms with
some of the best email deliverability people. I was also
in a room with some other guys that crushing marketing
telling us about TikTok and about like a secret way

(51:38):
they found out to leverage TikTok. You never tea you
can never read that in a in a textbook, You're
never going to read it online. And most of the
people that have these courses are not. Again, I have
courses too, but like so I got to you know,
I don't want to say much, but like a lot
of these people that have courses don't know shit from
their ass their elbow and they're just like gurgitating stuff

(51:59):
they learned from a course they just took right. But
when you get to the mastermind level, and if the
mastermind is curated properly, you're going to be with top
level people love this mastermind. I was punching way above
my weight being there, but it led me to some
fantastic conversations and some people that are now I'm going

(52:21):
to be doing business with that I never thought I
even have an opportunity to business with that. Have had
access and worked with people that like I look up
to that would never happen without the mastermind. So it
never happened without putting in the money. So a lot
of people, again, you can either learn your you can

(52:44):
pay nothing and learn and fail and learn and fail.
And if you're really really smart and you have money
to stay in the game, good for you. But that's
a lot of reasons why, like I forget what it
was like. There's a percentage of the number one reason
why businesses fail in the first years they run out
of money. That's it playing simple. It's not it's not

(53:05):
that the idea was bad, so the concept was bad,
they just ran out of money. So you could pay
for speed or you can learn the hard way. And
for me, I'm gonna try to pay for speed every
place I can go.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Speak to us a little bit about that curated properly,
because every mastermind is different and and there's a curation process, So.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
You don't want to you don't want to create a
mastermind like there's all different levels of mastermind. There's a
masterminds that I can't even get into, like I'm not
I can't even get into because you got to have
a net worth of X, or you gotta have a
business doing one hundred million if you know, or if
you're not a CEO of a one hundred million dollar business,
can't get in that Why because those CEOs want to
learn what it takes to go to a billion dollars.

(53:53):
What would a fifty million dollar CEO do and give
to one hundred million dollar ceo? How much you value
is there is not? So maybe you can bring in
one or two of those guys because you want to
bring them up, but you've got to curate it. So
in that room, you want to have a lot of
the people at one hundred million, you want to have
you want to have a lot of people at the billion,

(54:14):
and then you might have a couple of people at
the fifty sixty million trying to get in there. But
if you had to, if you're trying to make a mastermind,
I'm just putting numbers out here, right, And you're trying
to make a mastermind for one hundred million people, but
you fill it with a bunch of sixty million people,
what's going to happen. They're gonna get in there and
they're gonna start out to call asking questions. They're gonna say,
this isn't for me. It's gonna fail. So it's about

(54:35):
curating the right ones. And they're also it's about keep
there's because this mastermind world just created like you know,
Charlton's and then created people that just joined them and
just try to sell, sell, sell, there's masterminds up party.
You're not allow to sell like at all. If you
even get caught selling, and someone like Fells or you
know what I mean, says, hey, this guy's kind of
being sleezy out, you're out. There's others that are specific

(54:57):
today you guys go network sell your brains out, you
know what I mean. So it's all different, they're all
they're all different.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
And I think i'd call those more of a networking
group then, right, the one Yeah, the ones where you're
pitching your product and you're really going into bringing referrals
in and things of that nature.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Community community.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Yes, I mean there's a mastermind element to it because
you're bringing, like you said, a collaboration of minds and
bringing value. There's a there's an element to it, but
it's really a networking group. And I think that's a
good distinction to make of. Like a true mastermind is,
like you said, this collection of minds that are bringing
value for you to learn and be able to use
in your business. You're making relationships that can eventually turn

(55:34):
into profitable relationships. But the purpose isn't solely too, It's
not just relationships knowledge literally the mastermind was knowledge. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
so there is a great distinction.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
The story I always love the Henry Ford's story you
know that and things We're rich?

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Do you know that story of course and thinks to
grow rich? Yeah, yeah, where he talks about Yeah, you
get to ask do you know how to do this?
Do you know how to do that? He says no,
I could just press a button.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Yeah, Well he said no, because I have the best
in the world. That's right, right, So that like that
was you know that that that's kind of like the
mastermind too, like you know, can you can you I
call that. I don't want to get too much into this,
but you know I always have to say, like you're
When I was younger, I had my personal board of directors.
So I actually went on my you know, went onto
an excel whatever, drew a box like as if I

(56:23):
was sitting at a at a table and I'm sitting
at the head of table, and who's at this table?
And in that, in that, in in that I always
wanted to have the best person that I can have
access to, that I know, to sit in each seat
and every era in every area of my life. And
back then it was like the five f's. I lived
off this idea of the five fs friends, well, family, friends, fitness,

(56:49):
financial faith. So who were all the people sitting there
to help and make sure that I'm living my best
in all those areas.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
I think that that's a really great to consider. Adam
Grant talks about it as a challenge network. There's a
whole bunch of different ways to think about it.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, I'm not even heard of that, But I like
that your Challenge networks great. Yeah, I accountability, accountability.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
I love the Challenge network because in the Challenge Network,
and it's probably similar to what you were talking about
in terms of your board of directors, is you're looking
for feedback. You have this great idea, you're doing this thing,
You're passionate about this idea or this this thing, and
you're going to these these people who are experts in
their specific field, and you're you're playing it out with
them to get feedback to understand, you know, what are

(57:34):
the holes in it, what are the deficiencies, and what
is it that's really what's really good about it, so
that we can really understand and kind of work it
out to where now when we're out in the public,
we've gone through a lot of the pain points and
challenges already to be have more of a refined tool.
So I think I think there's a great idea for
people who are just starting out right now, is like,

(57:55):
who's your board of directors? And like you said, it
could be family and all that you mentioned fitness in
the and I kind of want to go to skiing
real quick. Have a little fun here with your skiing
career and maybe share some some ski stories that you
might have and some cool places that you skied. Fitness
is something that sometimes is very overlooked in business and
in entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship, however, we want to look at it.

(58:16):
We think of, you know, I didn't eat lunch today,
or I'm not eating or I don't have time for exercise,
or I don't have time for meditation, and we we
and I'm gonna put mental fitness and physical fitness together
in this conversation just for the sake of time here.
But very often it's overlooked. And I and I know
you're ready to jump in there, so just jump right
in here about the importance of fitness, both mental and

(58:38):
physical here.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Well, the reality, I mean it is overlooked, but I
don't know if you see it. I'm at least seeing
a trend with the people that i'm you know, that
I'm in connection with, is they're now taking their fitness
and you know serious, because you can't give what you
don't have. And I and I learned, and I'm going
through that myself. I'll call it a SPADEUS paid when

(59:02):
I can because I was I was so determined to
build this business, and it just always been like just
head down. Before five years ago, I was working out
like six days a week at two activities. At one point,
I was doing three activities a day, like it was
a workout playing tennis and hiking. Workout playing tennis, biking

(59:23):
seventy eighty k k. Right, but you can't do that
when you have a business, when you're starting a business.
I want to be very clear. When you're starting a business,
that's when you sell your business and it's thriving, you
can go back to that. Right, But what I did
was I just stopped there then cold Turkey and I
just got. I just got and I was working six
am to ten pm at night, just and I did

(59:45):
that for four years. And my body is messed up
now from it. My nervous system is messed up. So
I'm obviously I'm going back to the gym five days
a week now because I have the time, and I'm
doing that. But like it can crush you if you
don't take care of your health. Now, there's people that
I believe again I'm someone I'm not effective. Un last

(01:00:05):
I'm in the gym like I need, I need to
get that energy out. I need to do my card,
you know, I need to lift strong because it gives
me energy in it. And it's a way for me
to get rid of bad energy and allow new energy in.
If you're filled up with bad energy or negative or
call it scarcity, right, there's no room. You don't have room,

(01:00:27):
and the universe will not give to you what can't
flow through you. So you gotta you gotta be like
a river, always constantly cleansing. Right. So for me, health
is health, mindset, all of that is number one. Like
that is your that like that's more important than your business.
There's no point I having one hundred million dollars business
if you're dead.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
You know, it gets harder when you have kids. I
now have two girls, Uh, both under the age of three. Right,
so like we're in it right business kids, Uh, you
get in the gym. Uh And it's more than ever.
It's now I'm looking at how more important than it
is than ever because I gotta live. I can't I
can't be hurt, right, Uh. And then the and then

(01:01:06):
the reality is this is the new smoking is sitting
and not you know, we sit like you know, if
you're working from home, you're you're constantly sitting right, Like
when I was in pharmaceuticals, I was driving, but I'd
get up, get out of the car walk like I
was up up, sitting down up, down, up down right.
I can go five hours without even getting up, not

(01:01:28):
even knowing it. That's just like you might as well
go smoke twenty packed cigarettes because they're both going to
kill you. So, Uh, taking care of your health is
number one. Taking care of your mindset is number one,
because all that's going to pour into your your business anyways,
all that energy is going to pour in. You can't
act like a leader. You can't come from a place
of leadership. Uh, when you're in this scarce mindset, or

(01:01:49):
when you're not healthy and you're you know, not well.
And you're gonna see like you're going to see this trend.
There's a trend happening, and I'm seeing it where we
always have this trend of health and you can now
you can talk about the health fitting world, but I'm
talking about general overall general public. You're going to see
like you'll see a lot of people are going to
get a lot more like gyms are gonna get busier.
A lot of these fancy new whatever things are coming

(01:02:10):
out because people are realizing vitality comes from fitness.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
We see. I see that with myself. I know that
when I don't exercise, and it's not like I don't
I don't even have a gym membership actually, So my
exercise is straight up calisthetics. It's it's pull ups, push ups, crunches,
what's it called squats? And then I go to the courts.
This morning it was nice out, so I went and
shot around for basketball. So I know, like for myself,

(01:02:40):
I can't. I don't feel good if I don't exercise,
have some sort of exercise, and I think it's a
big one. And I know also same thing with the
mental of meditation and doing self hypnosis and all these
other things. One of the things I'm sure you know
of are aware of, and you might even have this,
but you get caught in a flow is a stand
up desk. I mean, I use that where you know

(01:03:01):
to stand that that definitely helps you mentioned something that
I think is really important to share with everybody listening,
because even myself, we get caught up in in this
world of hearing this balance of we need to you know,
I'm building a business, but I also need to exercise
and take you all this and all of that is true,
but you didn't I don't believe it, right. You did

(01:03:22):
mention that when you were building your business. You were like,
I gotta go all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Yeah, you got to tell I don't believe in it.
And and you know what I mean. I always I
always like, I try to watch sometimes what you say
on on podcasts because two years from now, my mindset
can change, right, And then that's that's the opposite of
what you once said, and people like, oh, you're an ammocrant, right,
and it's like, now I've changed, right. I would hope
life changed, right, But my con't my belief today. So

(01:03:49):
when I was young and naive, I believe that success
was being perfect in all aspects of those five ass
and that's impossible. And I've realized that. So now I go, Okay,
what are the things that I want to be perfect in?

(01:04:10):
And then one of the things that I'm okay being
good in because you're never going to be You're never
going to be in the best shape of your I'm
talking top tier shape your life, having the top tier business,
like or trying to let's just say, starting a top
tier business, right and then the top tier father right,

(01:04:30):
Like it's just like you got you gotta choose. You
gotta choose what and you got to be okay with it.
You got to choose what's most important to you. Now
I see a lot of if I laugh because some
of these new these entrepreneurs I'm seeing coming out and
they go, they taught all entrepreneurships sell their companies for
thirty forty million. Now they're like, oh, it's fitness. You
gotta take care of your fitness. It's like, guys, like,

(01:04:51):
shut up, man, like you guys, don't you guys? All
you do is I get to work out like you've
made your money. So I hate that HIPOCOSM James right
now being hypocrite, right, But I just don't like that
because it's the it's a fake image, right, Like I
rather them say, Hey, I'm so grateful that I may
put the work in to get to where I'm at,

(01:05:12):
so now I can focus on my fitness because what
happened three years ago? You were fat and you're not
in shape. You were not showing your abs online, you
know what I mean. Now you're just shirts off and
trying to tell everybody that you know that it's the latest,
greatest thing. But what I believe is is like an
hour day, an hour day, forty five minutes to an

(01:05:33):
hour day, that's every day. That's all you need.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
That's all you need is an hour a day.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
You got to move, You got to move. You gotta
move like I don't know, but walking people say walk
is not I don't believe walk is enough. Like you
got to you gotta exert yourself, you gotta you gotta
be sweating, you gotta be Like if you're not sore
after a day of working out, or you're not breathing
heavy and you're not sweating in your activity, you're you're
not I don't think you're actually, you know, helping yourself,
but you want to exert yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
I'm glad you made that distinction of the these entrepreneurs
and the different types, right because you can have the
small business owner who is just kind of going along
their path and doing a little bit of exercise, a
little bit of work and kind of having a little
bit in every space. And the distinction that we have
here that we want to make clear for everybody listening
is that if you're trying to build like a thirty

(01:06:20):
eight million dollar business. If you're trying to build this
like top tier business, to realize that you're going to
have to give some things up. And again back to
my original question. What I want to make clear here
is that what we see and what you just said,
we see is the business owner on the other side
of building that business, and they're talking about their fitness

(01:06:41):
and their lifestyle and everything, and they're not talking about
the grind that went in previously. And so I thought
this was important to bring up with you because it's
a belief of yours, because I mean, I was fed
that too. Right, We're seeing on the other side, we're
not seeing the grind and you grinded. And so that's
why I wanted you to distinct, to make that distinction,

(01:07:03):
and I really appreciate you your honesty of hey, look,
you know for three four years I didn't I didn't
touch it a weight.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
And no it was bad. Yeah it was bad. It
wasn't good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I'm not saying no, no, no, no one's saying it
that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
But that was part of the contence. I would, you know,
I kind of go back and I would I almost
kind of regret that in a way I wish, I
wish I would. I bet you I actually go back
and think what would have looked like if I would
have just said, I mean, come on, an hour, you know,
just thirty minutes and hour different?

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Right, yeah, thirty minutes an hour right the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Beginning of this podcast. You're a direct reflection of the
results you get.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
So if I'm not taking care of you, can't give
what you don't have. Right. So if I'm not taking
care of number one, see a lot of people like
we were well in school. Right, don't be selfish, don't
be selfish. Can't If you don't take care of you,
which is being selfish, how can you take care of
anyone else? So I decided to live a life of
being selfish today, so then I can be generous tomorrow.

(01:07:59):
Most people are not willing to make that commitment or sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
I want to go back to your sports days. So
I mentioned skiing. You mentioned also that you had a
scholarship for football, and so you have a lot of
athletics in your life, and there's a there's a huge
correlation from athletics to sales. And I'm interested in some
of the transferable skills that you picked up from your
athletic career into your sales career.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Yeah, it's discipline. It's funny you say that. My company,
one of our core pillars is the athletes DNA, so
we only hire people with the athletes DNA. We only
hire like we try to only hire people that played
professional sports because we know if you played not. Oh,
I grew up playing hockey when I was eight years
old and I quit when I was nine. Now I'm

(01:08:46):
talking like you actually played at a competitive level, because
when you play at a competitive level, you learn about teamwork,
even if it's an individual sport. You learn about loss,
you learn about winning. You realize that character and greatness
isn't built when you won the game, it's when you
lost the game. It's easy think about it for salespeople too.

(01:09:11):
This is why salespeople are so up and down, and
that's why at the end of the year they don't
make their numbers because they wait till they feel good
to do good. And if I waited every day to
feel good to do good, I would not be where
I am in my life. It's how you do on
the days you feel like shit, on the days you
feel like giving up on the fields on the days
you feel like failing, like quitting, and you can still

(01:09:31):
show up and do good, not great, but you do good.
And that consistency is the difference. And then you ask,
you know what's the correlation. The correlation is is that
is they have this winner's mindset. They have a discipline
to them, they have a commitment to them, They have
a resilience which is huge. They have this idea, this resilience.

(01:09:52):
And most important for me is this is they rather
they rather lose the game and know they left everything
on the table, then win the game and know they
could have done better. That's the difference. That's the difference
between a player and a pretender. So pretenders they passed

(01:10:14):
the ball when the games on the line, players they
shoot m hm.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
And go back to the that learning through adversity that
you just mentioned there in terms of like learning through
through the.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Losses in in in what context like how you however
you however you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Decide to kind of break that out because I think
that that's a huge piece here that as entrepreneurs entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Okay, so I'll tell you this. The piece that I
we should be getting at here about adversity is this
is entrepreneurship sucks. It's hard. It is not what people
what you think, Oh, just work hard for you, you
become a multi million No, it is. It is challenging.
It's actually probably more bad days than there are good is,

(01:11:00):
especially when you are growing the business and it's I'm talent,
I've I've grown out three businesses now failed twice, almost
bankrupt twice, seven days from bankruptcy, having to get loans,
not even know how I'm going to pay the rent,
all of that, Like, no one talks about that. No
one talks about even when you get a little momentum
you're start thinking you're doing well and then that's taken

(01:11:23):
away from you or the opposite where you had it
and then you lost it, meaning where you're making one
hundred and fifty k months and then all of a
sudden it's gone and now you're making ten k month,
but your lifestyle is now at one hundred and fifty k,
and you've got to give up that. These are challenges,
Like people don't talk about it. They don't talk about
how hard it is to lead a team. They think, oh,

(01:11:43):
I'm just the leader. Oh yeah, go go try to
actually lead a team. To get them to actually do
things that was. That's one of my hardest challenges is
and I'll say it like is I'm constantly constantly learning
and growing as a leader, making many mistakes and learning
from them, making them again and go, damn, I did
it again, learning from them. It's just it's constant learning,

(01:12:05):
it's constant challenges, constant knows. You're gonna get beat up,
you're gonna be you gotta get up, you're gonna you're
gonna sweat, you're gonna have blood, you're gonna you're gonna
crawl off the field, and then the next day you
got to get back on. You got to play the
game again. And I don't know. That's what entrepreneurship is.
But no one talks about it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Again, well you are, and we appreciate that, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Nobody talks about the dead bodies. They only talk about
the winners, the one percent that win. But no one,
no one ever talks about well, wait a minute, so
all this online. Oh it's so easy to make money.
You see these nineteen year olds who are making millions
of dollars a month, and you're thinking, of all, he
can do it, Everyone can do it. But they're not
No one ever talks about Oh wait a minute, though,
there's also millions of people who try to do what
he did and they failed and they're dead. They're called

(01:12:48):
called dead bodies, right, So to me, that's what adversity
looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Yeah, and tell us a little bit about that. So
you you said, you know, almost went bankrupt twice. What
we're some of the things that you had to do
mentally in order to get through those situations.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Well, mentally, I had to have again, I had to
believe that there was an end like that there. I
was working for something that was that was going to happen,
that was bigger than me. I was working for the vision. Right,

(01:13:27):
You'll never burn out no matter how hard you work,
if your vision is clear. It's only when you start
losing your vision is when you start burning out. And
when you have vision so clear, no red bull, no
ten cops of coffee will ever outrun or outweigh the vision.

(01:13:50):
So in my worst days I had my vision was
still clear. I said, I just knew I was doing
stuff from clearly. I'm doing stuff wrong, is right? People
around me are being successful, and I know they're not
that smarter than me, but not that better than me.
They've just figured out they figured out the nuances. There's nuances.

(01:14:11):
So for me, as I was standing in that line,
this was a very important piece of the story. As
I standing in the line bank, like literally at the bank,
about to go sign the papers, and I'm bankrupt, like
you about to say claim it just which is the
epitome of literally the epitome of of of of the
opposite of success. For me, it's like the epitome of failure. Now,

(01:14:32):
sometimes people have to claim bankruptcy for tax reason and
stuff like that. I'm just talking about like I'm talking
about truly bankrupt. I'm talking like you don't have a
dollar to your name, you can't pay rent. And I
was standing there and I remember, if you're if you're
not reading, you're not learning, right. So I've read, you know,
reading a lot of books, and most of the business
books and the self development books will tell you there
will be days when you're building your business that like

(01:14:53):
you'll be put on the spot where you're going to
make hard decisions and you're going to have to push
forward or give up two feet from goal, two feet
from gold. Right, So I was like, this is that,
this is it. This is like like and I was
actually excited. I was like, this is the point where
people fail because if I make one step forward, I fail.

(01:15:17):
But if I make one step back and get the
fuck out of this bank, I still have a chance
to win. So I turned around and I left, and
then I'm like, well, now what do you do? It's
all of a sudden, people are like again, now what
do you do? You're hurt, you're embarrassed, you're ashamed. You
had you had this corporate job of making three hundred
thousand dollars, driving the car, working one day a week,

(01:15:38):
like having all this fun living downtown Vancouver in the
condo life. Now you have one hundred and fifty thousand
dollars in debt and you don't have mommy and daddy.
Mammy daddy. No, nobody's saving you. There's no there's no
there's no trust, fun, there's no even mom and dad
or doctors and lawyers or even teachers that had put
a nest egg where they no no mommy and daddy.
You're paying for mommy and daddy. Your responsibility is the ian.

(01:16:01):
Now your one hundred and fifty k and Dad, well
what do you do? You can't quit you like, what
do you do?

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
What did Colonel Sanders do?

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
What do we learn?

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
What did he do? How many? How many knows did
he have to hear? So I was willing to do that.
Are you willing to do the things that most people
won't in order to live a life that most people
never have? I haven't said that, oh my god, ten years,
but like that that that was one of the quote
my my, uh my. My first mentor said to me,
are you willing to do what most people won't in
the next three to five years to have what most

(01:16:35):
people will never kind of have? Like you know? And
and so I was like, all right, picked up the phone, Hey,
cave on here, listen. I'm not I'm in shit, Like
I need a loan. I need about a thirty thousand
dollars loan, Like, can you give it to me? No? Okay,
I had to suck up my ego. I had to
suck up my ego. And it wasn't until a twenty

(01:16:56):
seventh call. And you know what I say, I was lucky.
I didn't have to make five hundred calls that would
have sucked. I only had made twenty seven calls. Twenty
seven calls and the guy goes, OKAVN, I've always believed
in you tell me a little bit more what you
needed for. I told him what they needed for. Okay,
blah blah blah said I give it to you, said, okay, great.
This was I'll never forget. This was February seventeen. February

(01:17:19):
twenty seventeen, darkest days, darkest days. And now, I don't
know if you know, in February and Canada tours like
it's the darkest, shittiest time of the year, right and
and and he said when when do you think you
can pay me back? And now, before that, as a dumb,
young entrepreneur, I used to think I was going to
become a millionaire in thirty days. So that's why I
used to keep investing. Twenty k here, I'll get it

(01:17:40):
back next week, thirty k here, I got a back
in next thing. You know, you're one hundred and fifty
KA and debt, And this time I knew. Now you're
playing with someone else's money. It's different. It's actually different
when you play with someone else's money, especially when you
have to hold them, especially if they're they're they're in
your personal network too. And if you have integrity and
honor like I do. If I'm doing that, I'm paying
you back. And if I can't pay you back, I'm
going to find a way to pay you. So I said, well, honestly,

(01:18:01):
like September. And then when I said that, I was like, oh,
I gotta be honest, like, if you can pull this
to January, that'd be really nice. You know, give me
basically a year. And he said, here's the deal. In September,
you're gonna start paying me five hundred dollars a month,
and when we get to January, whatever's left that if
you haven't paid off, we're going to start charging ten percent.
So done, Thank you. Boom thirty days later making twenty

(01:18:26):
five grand a month, sixty days later, making forty five
grand a month, eighteen months later, thirty eight million dollar company.
That would never ever would have happened. If I would
have took that one step forward at the bank, that's

(01:18:46):
a great and god knows where I would gone because
I couldn't go back to corporate. There's no way. I'm
not I'm not. I am not employable. I am not employable.
I have gotten fired from every single job I've ever had.
I was the number number one pharmaceutical sales rep. And
they fired me because I didn't fit into their mold.
You want to know why they fired You want I

(01:19:09):
they didn't give me the award, the number one award,
where then you get you get like a bonus. You
go on vacation, and you can't deny the numbers. So
I'm at the event in the Galla best dressed suit tuxedo.
Everyone's like, cave on. Congratulations, Like everybody is like congratulations.
They go announce the winner. I'm like getting up and

(01:19:31):
they announced somebody else and obviously you're like, what the
fuck is going on here? To find out they didn't
like me because they didn't like how tight my pants were.
They didn't like that I wore fitted suits because all
these dinosaurs wore black shitty suits, you know, like baggy,

(01:19:52):
and I wore and I was drous shark. I was
like sharp, like always dress sharp, nice shoes, nice fitted pants,
tight jacket, pocket square, looking like a g And they
didn't want me to be a representation of their company.
Racism kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Kind of goes back there sometimes, huh yeah, uh, just
go I don't I can't not go back to the
thirty eight million dollar company. I mean, that's a great
story of overcoming that that moment, that challenge that we
just talked about. What were some of the things that
you did, so you had to do some hard things, right,
and you said twenty five thousand, forty five thousand, sixty

(01:20:33):
five thousand.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Yeah, actually know what, I actually didn't have to do
the hard things. And let me explain why. Yeah, before that,
I was trying to be an internet marketer. I was
trying to you know what I'm doing now, but I
didn't have a skill set and I was just relying
on other people to actually care about me. I tell
them how much I want to succeed. They would tell
me how much they bleed in me. They would take
my money and they didn't give a shit. And that happened,

(01:20:54):
and happened, happened until I was one hundred and fifty
can debt and then I was then that thirty K
was for mentor. So I called somebody a mentor, and
in where I was living, I'm like, listen, I'm bankrupt,
and here's all what I've been doing wrong. But I
know that I have X, Like I need someone just

(01:21:14):
to tell me, like what the hell am I doing
because I'm blind obviously I'm blind spots And he said, well,
I know exactly how it'll help you. And I said okay,
and he's like, thirty k. I just set him, send
him bankrupt. Like well, so that's why I left and
went and grabbed the thirty k, got the thirty k,
gave it right to him. He said, you're not You're
not a marketer, You're a salesperson. Go be a salesperson.

(01:21:37):
I was like, I just gave you thirty thousand dollars
for you to tell me that I'm a salesperson. I've
been a salesperson for twenty five years. I know I'm
a salesperson. What the fuck are you talking about. He no,
you don't get it. Instead of being the man, so
you're sill in a package for ten grand. But as
you know, you gotta do the internet market. They got
to do like Facebook ads, you got to do the automation,

(01:21:58):
you got to go do all that work. He's like,
just go close for them and you make two grand.
And I said, okay, what because I didn't know that.
I didn't know at the time that there was closing
high ticket closing, which is my life. Now. I had
no idea about it. I just never knew about it.
Like it was. It was again you don't know what
you don't know. And as soon as he told me that,
I'm like, well where He's like, all over, go to

(01:22:21):
Facebook groups. So I went. So I went into the
very first Facebook group and I saw that I saw
a posting and the posting was like, you know, looking
for a closer, looking for a sales rep. Jumped on
it right away, gone on a call. Obviously I know
how to get a job, got the job, found out
it was actually working for one and again I don't
want to mention the name, but at that time one
of the top influencers. I had no idea like what

(01:22:44):
I was getting into. Twenty k offer filled up my calendar,
just making sales all day, sitting in my underwear. Oh
my god, it was like that was actually like the
happiest time in my life because I didn't have anything.
I had no business, I had no employees, I had
no expenses. I was just showing up when one call close,
isn't getting paid fat checks. Then the mentor came up

(01:23:04):
to me and said, damn, Like how many times you
think he told people to do that many how many
times you think people had success? None? Right, So he said,
you think we can teach this. I said, oh, baby,
we can teach this. He goes like, hey, let's go
in a business partnership. I said, oh my god, this
is amazing because he was a phenomenal marketer. So it's great.
He's okay, you go build it. So I went build
it all. We built it, and we went and did

(01:23:25):
it all, and we like little did we know. We
had no idea it was going to get this big.
But you know again zero to thirty eight and eighteen
months we were training at that time was like fifteen
thousand people, one hundred different countries. It was wild. It
was like we made it. There was a statement. There
was a statement I'm not again watching my words, but
there was a statement back in eighteen that we made

(01:23:46):
on this whole idea of high ticket closing. And then
from there that was it, like I knew, like I'm like,
that's my kind of my expertise, twenty years of experience,
and then I really and what actually happened was I
actually got really good at it again. I learned it. It
clicked one day, like what high Kike of closing is
which I realized. It's this connection. It's about asking the

(01:24:07):
right question. It's not about trying to sell. Like I'm
not coming into this call with the idea of selling,
because when you put yourself first, you end up on
the bottom. When you put your prospect first, you end
up on top. So that all kind of clicked to me.
And then I was very successful, and I was very
successful at teaching it, and then I wanted to help
more businesses instead of just my own business. So we

(01:24:28):
went and built out the Sales Connection, the agency where
we build remote sales teams for entrepreneurs. We manage to recruit,
re onboard systems, automation, everything, full sales department.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
And that's what you're doing today.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
That's what we're doing today at a sales Connection.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
So that's separate from the thirty eight million dollar company.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Yeah, thirty eight million that was done. Yeah, that went
zero thirty eight And then there was a lot that
went on when you scale that fast. And other people
don't understand this too. When you scale that fast, you break,
you break.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Tell us about that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
You get greedy, You get greedy because if you and
the and the reality is we didn't have a business.
We had an ad. A lot of these Internet marketers
they don't have business. And again respect them, I respect
them that because they have cash flow. Basically they have
an opportunity. It's cash flow, but it's an AD. Meaning

(01:25:20):
if that if all of a sudden they can't promote
on Facebook, they go out of business. That's why vcs
I just learned this. If you're bringing more than thirty
percent of your revenue from Facebook ads or like Google ads,
a VC company will never invest in your company. A
lot of these companies, a lot of these Internet marketers,

(01:25:40):
and I'm talking these guys are doing twenty million dollars, Like,
what do you mean they own business? They don't have
a business. They got an AD. The business will break
if that AD goes down.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
Like it's essentially they have a lead magnet that gets
people to their site, that gets people to buy their
product in that moment, but it's not an ongoing relationship
of ongoing sales ongoing Actually yeah, yeah, and so that
was similar what that business was for you back then.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
Yeah, yeah, it was. And then and then there was
a lot of there was a lot of issues and
we're not we're not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
I'm not here to dissect that business. Really, what we're
looking for is the growth strategies that you put in place.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
So now with so as we're as we're ending here,
let me say this to you. At the top, pharmacutical
game at the bottom, bankrupt at the top, collecting K checks,
back to the.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Bottom and back up again, and that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
That is what business success. Like that is what entrepreneurship is.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
And that's what you They don't say that, And that's
what you've built today is this new business that you
started from the bottom. And this business now offers what
you said, it's essentially a sales.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Team, sale training, sales fulfillment, any all things sales.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Yeah, for for other organizations. And where do you see
that business going in the future for you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
Well, my goal, my goal to have one hundred million
dollar companies. So I'm doing everything I can to create
the foundation so this becomes a hundred million dollar company.
That's my goal. It because that's my that's my ultimate
few to everybody. So like that's my you know, I've
already said f you to to like a lot, you know,
to everyone that said I wouldn't get out of you,
said I wasn't gonna get out elementary school, and you
said I wasn' gonna get a you know, high school,

(01:27:19):
and you said I was going to go out of college,
and you said I was going to go if I
was luck in college. And we'll end it here. But
in college, the remedial, like the specialist, like the special
ed teacher, the person that you go to because you
have l you know, a d D. And they're supposed
to support you and help you. Sag me down, look
me straight in the eye and looked at like my

(01:27:39):
grades from high school and said, I'm gonna be honest
with you. You won't last a month here. You probably
won't get that job at the factory, but you should
go back home and see if you can. That's what
you said to me. That's literally what you said to me.
After all my years of hearing that, and you think
you broke free of it at that time. I'm like

(01:27:59):
twenty one that time. Look where I am today. But
my ultimate A few is the hundred, right, It's like
it's that next level.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
That's you know, you know, and that's why you know
it's so important to really understand people's backstories. For everybody
listening here is like you know, everybody who's listening. I
think my listeners know that we go into the backstory,
but for for new listeners here, that's why the backstory
is so important because it all comes full circle and
having to overcome that adversity was a big driving force
for you and it's for you today. My last question

(01:28:30):
that I like to ask and really just get a
feel for everybody. And you may have a prepared mantra
or maybe you don't, but what's what's a mantra? A thought,
a quote, an idea of philosophy that you live by
today and that moves you outside of that adversity that
you just mentioned.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Uh, when things are going tough, I like I still
in my head go winners, never quit, quitters never win.
When my energy or things are not going well, like
things just don't feel well, I always say, you know,
like your direct reflection of your results and the universe
can give to me what can't follow through me, And

(01:29:09):
those are the things that I just kind of I
live by, Like, I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
It's so interesting how things click synergistically with guests for
me of these different connections that we have, you know,
being a skier, I mean obviously I wasn't in the
same realm as you. You were trying to get on the
Olympic team and all that. But I just recently bought
this shirt and I was like, oh, I'm gonna wear
it today. I wasn't sure if I was going to
wear it today or not, and I was like, now,

(01:29:33):
I want to wear it today, and I feel like it.
So it says grow through what you go through, and
it's like, I feel like that's been the theme of
our grow through what you go through? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I feel like it's been the theme of our show
today of you've grown through all of this adversity into
where you are today, and it's it's pretty You.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
Got to be able to completely die of any version
of the person you think you are so you can
rebirth the version you know yourself to be.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
That was awesome. I want, of course, in our show
notes all of your information will be there, but for
all of our audio listeners, if you could share with
them how to get in touch with you, how to
connect with you on social whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
To share with our audio very easy. I make it easy.
Caveon dot com kay v o N dot com, kayvo
n dot com. From there you can follow me all
over my socials and connect with me via email. Download
all the free stuff I have.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Awesome, awesome, It's it's been a pleasure meeting you. I
want to share with everyone I am doing a fundraiser
for Forgot intern of Haiti. Just go to my website
and you can learn more about the fundraiser there. Kevon,
It's been a pleasure meeting you, getting to know you.
Thanks so much for coming on the show today.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
For listening to The Michael Esposito Show. For show notes,
video clips and more episodes, go to Michael Esposito Inc.
Dot com backslash podcast. Thank you again to our sponsor
d ten Insurance Services helping businesses get the right insurance
for all their insurance needs. Visit Denten dot io to
get a quote that's d E n ten dot io

(01:31:12):
and remember when you buy an insurance policy from Denten,
you're giving back on a global scale. This episode was
produced by Uncle Mike at the iHeart Studios in Poughkeepsie.
Special thanks to Lara Rodrian for the opportunity and my
team at Michaelsposito in Ink

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