February 11, 2025 • 33 mins
Are you ready to tackle the evolving job market of 2025? With economic uncertainty, political shifts, and corporate restructuring, mid-career professionals face unique challenges—especially as the "white-collar recession" unfolds. In this episode, we dive deep into the latest job market trends, the future of DEI initiatives, and essential strategies to help you stay competitive.
Key Topics Covered:
✔️ What the "white-collar recession" means for mid-career professionals
✔️ How economic and political changes are reshaping job security
✔️ The decline of DEI initiatives—why it matters and what it means for workplace culture
✔️ The power of Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) in networking and career growth
✔️ Mastering job market positioning to stand out to employers
✔️ Effective strategies for networking, interviewing, and career resilience
Listen now and take control of your career in 2025! Don’t forget to join our growing community of mid-career professionals committed to success.
#JobMarket2025 #CareerGrowth #WhiteCollarRecession #Networking #DEI #MidCareerSuccess
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
Hey there, this episode has been a little
challenging for me to plan andto record Now.
Admittedly, the easier routewould have been for me to just
do another episode about how youshould be optimizing your
LinkedIn at the beginning of theyear, and that's certainly
important, but it's really notwhat's on everyone's minds right
(00:22):
now.
But it's really not what's oneveryone's minds right now,
given the new presidentialadministration that took office
a few weeks ago.
We know there have been a lotof changes and some people are
in favor of it and others arenot, and I want to be clear that
(00:44):
this episode is not about megoing on some type of political
rant, because this podcast ispolitically agnostic.
I know there are people fromboth sides of the aisle who
listen, and I am grateful foryou being here, but there are
some things in this episode thatI will share with you, and I
invite you to stick around tohear how all of this relates to
the current job market and howyou can be navigating it this
(01:08):
week.
It is time you and I take anobjective and realistic look at
the current state of the jobmarket, discuss what is being
called as the white-collarrecession, the impact on the
dismantling of DEI and explorehow you can position yourself
more strategically within thisjob market, to your benefit and
(01:29):
success.
There are undoubtedly manymoving parts and in this episode
, my goal is to provide you withthe most valuable and relevant
tips to help you build yourmid-career GPS right now.
So let's get started.
(01:58):
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
Before I dive into this week'sepisode, I understand that many
of you would love to have acareer coach help you make your
(02:19):
next move, but may not have thefinancial resources to hire one
privately.
In this job market, ascompanies continue to cut back
on employee resource groups andprofessional development, you
taking the opportunity to investin your career growth is vital
to your success.
That's why I am announcing anew mid-career community for
(02:42):
people like you, whether you'relooking to find the job you love
or level up on your leadership.
This monthly membership isdesigned to help you find that
job you will fall in love with.
This community will belaunching soon, in the next few
weeks, and if you want to be thefirst to hear about updates and
information regarding itslaunch, including how to get a
(03:05):
special founder's rate.
You wanna get on the wait list,so the easiest thing to do is
go to my website athttps://johnneral.
com.
Right there on the homepage.
As you scroll down, you willsee a button to get on the wait
list.
That gets you into my emailcommunity and a special list for
(03:26):
those interested in being partof this mid-career GPS community
, and I look forward tolaunching this in the upcoming
weeks and having you be a partof it so together we can help
you figure out whatever is goingto be next for you and your
career your career.
Okay, we got a lot to cover thisweek and, as I shared in the
(03:48):
introduction, I do my best tokeep this podcast politically
agnostic, but, given the currentTrump administration, what we
(04:08):
know is that over these lastthree weeks between Doge and
what Elon Musk is doing underPresident Trump's direction or
guidance, however, you want tosee that a lot's happening, and
if you have not had anopportunity to read Project 2025
, I invite you to read it.
I invite you to look and searchfor comparisons between what it
says in the document and what'salready been enacted, but in
(04:30):
all respect, this should not bea surprise.
Okay, just to get this out ofthe way, if you are new to me or
you haven't been following mefor a while, I tend to lean left
, but I tend to lean left middle.
Okay.
So I just share that with youso you understand where I come
from, and my job in this episodefor you is to help dissect some
(04:55):
of the things that arehappening and where it may
already have or couldpotentially impact your job and
the job market this year.
Right?
So please know that mypolitical views in this episode
don't matter.
They don't.
As I say at the end of everyepisode, how we show up matters,
(05:17):
and that is what we willcontinue to focus on.
My purpose in doing this podcastis to share information with
you that everybody needs to helpthem build their mid-career GPS
.
Also, I want you to know that,as a coach, a colleague, a
friend and a spouse, there arestories and circumstances that I
(05:39):
have heard that I will not bespecifically sharing in this
episode, in part because there'sconfidentiality.
But secondly, that is moreexperiential information and
while I will share somegeneralities, the specifics are
things you will certainly havegleaned and gained from your own
(06:01):
network and your own circle ofpeople with whom you are talking
with on a regular basis.
So my experiences are limited,based on my own circle, but I do
want to offer they are broad,given the expansiveness of my
network and the people with whomI've been talking with over the
last few weeks.
(06:22):
Here's the other thing.
If you are not looking at jobreports, I want to invite you to
do that.
One of the easiest ways is justto go to Google and set up a
Google Alert with a certain tagregarding job reports.
But I want to offer you thatthis is an opportunity to look
at two different types of data.
(06:42):
The first is reporting data.
Look at two different types ofdata.
The first is reporting data.
Okay, so that would be thingslike information that's coming
out of the US Department ofLabor.
You can go to websites likeIndeed, glassdoor, ziprecruiter,
linkedin, flexjobs, forbes.
There's plenty of places whereyou can go to get those job
(07:02):
reports and hear theirparticular spin, interpretation
or information about it.
I also want to invite you tocheck out reputable news outlets
.
So these are more legacy newsoutlets, even though we know
some of them tend to lean oneside or the other.
(07:23):
But if you're like me, you areconsuming that information from
a variety of different resources.
I will tell you, I have somefriends of mine that are pretty
shocked to hear that I sometimeslisten to the other side and
check in with that, but I feelthat's important for me to do
that because that helps me bemore informed in terms of making
the decisions and the reactionsthat I have.
(07:45):
You have social media,certainly, whatever platform you
are on, and you're consumingthat content.
More than likely, you areseeing content that as political
in nature, be it on one side,the other or both.
Okay, but again, I want toinvite you to make sure that you
(08:05):
are exploring multiple sourcesto gather your information
regarding these job reports andtake all of that information and
use it to inform your thoughtsand opinions about where you
feel you need to be moving inthis job market.
The other piece of data toexamine here is experiential
(08:27):
data, and that is data that youare seeing from either yourself
in your current position orindustry, or these are what your
friends and colleagues areseeing and sharing with you as
well, hearing stories from thefront lines, from people who
have been directly impacted oraffected by the changes that
(08:50):
have specifically been happeningover the last three weeks gives
you a different lens than whatyou are seeing or reading
through the job reports and thevarious news outlets.
Not everything is going to getreported and we know the social
media algorithms tend to skewwhatever you're clicking on.
(09:12):
So I was sharing this withsomeone the other day and I was
saying how, look, if you wantedgolden retriever puppies in your
feed, all you have to do isclick on two or three of them
and you now will be flooded withgolden retriever puppies in
your feed.
Okay.
If you want funny cat videos,the same thing kind of applies,
(09:34):
okay.
So understand that your socialmedia is going to skew based on
the algorithm, based on whatyou're clicking on.
It should not be a surprise.
Algorithm based on what you'reclicking on Should not be a
surprise.
So now that you've taken a lookat some job reports and we
should be expecting job reportsevery single month and once
(09:54):
those job reports are released,for a few days afterwards,
you're going to get everybodykind of spinning what they are
seeing and hearing.
But there was a term that cameup in 2024 that is important for
me to call out in this episode,and that term is white-collar
recession.
Now, by definition, awhite-collar recession refers to
(10:18):
a potentially economicsituation where there is a
significant decline in jobopportunities for professional
office-based workers likemanagers, analysts, corporate
staff, while other sectors ofthe economy might remain
relatively stable, leading toincreased unemployment and
(10:39):
difficulty finding newwhite-collar jobs among this
demographic.
Can you tell?
I read that exactly, because Ijust wanted to make sure I got
that all out there, okay?
So white-collar recession isgoing to hit specifically those
mid-level to senior-levelcorporate-type jobs where
companies are going to look andthey're gonna see if there's
(11:02):
really a need for you on the orgchart and how much it's costing
the company to have you in thatspecific space.
So if you are a typicalwhite-collared professional,
right your corporate job,corporate-type industry.
What I want you to know is that,from everything I've been
reading and seeing, that thiswill impact specific jobs,
(11:26):
mostly at middle management andadministrative roles.
Part of the reason here couldbe to looking at how they can
cut costs, maybe due toincreased automation,
streamlining operations, forexample, looking to see how many
people need to be in a specificrole, looking at resource
allocations for that work to getdone, as well as economic
(11:50):
uncertainty.
So we know typically when theeconomy isn't doing as well, we
tend to see jobs become fewer.
But now, with AI and increasedautomation, companies are
certainly taking a look to sayhey, do we need four people in
this role?
Can we get by with just one?
(12:11):
Now, when we contrast what'shappening with white-collar jobs
and compare that withblue-collar ones, what we've
typically seen is that theblue-collar sector like
manufacturing, construction,hospitality in some areas of
hospitality, they may continueto see demand for labor, and so
(12:33):
what happens is is we may seequote unquote blue-collar jobs
rise but white-collar jobsdecline, and that may look like
the job market is holding steadyor even increasing in some way.
But if you're not finding thetype of job that best suits your
skill set and background,that's where you need to be
(12:54):
paying attention.
So thinking about whereadvanced technology like AI may
be coming into play, or wherecompanies may be looking to cut
costs, or how people are comingto the office versus working
remotely.
If you have followed me for awhile or if you are new, my
(13:19):
message will never change onthis, and that is the best way
you can leverage yourself intoyour current or new position is
by clearly and cleanlycommunicating why you are
valuable, how you are going tohelp them solve a particular
(13:41):
problem and paint the picturefor where your work within that
organization moves both them andyou forward, so they see the
value in bringing you on.
If we take a look at the lastthree weeks, at what has been
(14:02):
happening in the federalgovernment, we don't have to
look any further than DOGE, theDepartment of Governmental
Efficiency, led by Elon Musk.
We have seen the impact takento USAID.
We have heard conversationsaround the Department of
(14:23):
Education.
At the time of this recordingthere was plans to take a look
at what's happening in thePentagon.
It's kind of hard for me totalk about specific things like
this because who knows what'sgoing to change by the time this
episode drops.
The wind could blow a differentway.
But again, if you've readProject 2025 and you see what's
going on, you kind of see thepattern.
(14:45):
So the discussion here is onwhere can cutbacks be made,
where can things be streamlined?
But of course, the fear is ifyou're going to let certain
number of people go, how didthey get absorbed into the job
market?
Who are the people that willtake some time off because they
(15:07):
financially can do that and whoare the people that are living
paycheck to paycheck, that needto find a job immediately if
they're losing their job.
And look, you may have been afactor in this.
I certainly have been a factorof this, in terms of companies
going through restructuring andreorganization and trying to
(15:30):
figure out where you're going toland.
It's scary when you think, ohmy gosh, how am I going to make
my bills, how am I going to goand do this?
Or we've got this big expensecoming up, or I don't want to
put another expense on my creditcard, all of those things.
So I'm okay with theconversation around how can we
(15:54):
improve efficiency and cut costswhere necessary?
But we have to look at it verybroadly, in my opinion.
Okay, and so there's nothingwrong in the conversation quote
unquote.
But if it's going to directlyimpact you, then you have to
figure out where do you land.
(16:16):
No surprise we've seen the techindustry take a big hit in 2024.
And everything I'm seeing andreading and hearing is that that
will most likely continue atleast into half the year in 2025
.
So if you're in the tech sectorand you're looking for a job,
(16:36):
admittedly that may be a littlemore difficult for you.
It doesn't mean it's impossible.
As a coach, I work with myclients on helping them clean up
their thoughts so we get themin the right mindset, but then
also it is about helpingstrategically leverage them in
the market.
And please know that if you arethinking that a job search is
(16:59):
not going to take you a lot oftime right now, I have to tell
you you're mistaken A lot.
If I put that in air, quotescan mean some very, very
different things, but by thetime you start looking,
networking, applying,interviewing easily you're
looking at least two months Onaverage.
(17:22):
We're seeing five months.
On the other end of the scaleit's probably eight months.
It all depends on the factorsand things you can control as to
how they impact your job searchright now.
Now the other thing I want tobring up here is the impact
we're seeing on DEI, diversity,equity and inclusion.
(17:45):
I am someone who will alwaysadvocate that a diverse,
equitable and inclusiveworkforce is to an
organization's strength.
Research has shown that diverseteams make better decisions and
drive more revenue.
(18:05):
You can look at McKinsey.
You can look at the HarvardBusiness Review.
According to research byCloverpop, they say that diverse
teams are 87% better at makingdecisions.
Companies with strong DEIinitiatives tend to attract top
talent, including experiencedmid-career professionals who
(18:27):
desire, crave and want to workin inclusive environments, and
we have seen time and time againthe participation in DEI
initiatives help professionalsdevelop skills around things
like conflict resolution,emotional intelligence,
cross-culture communication thatare not only valuable at any
(18:47):
career stage, but they areglobal skills that ensure
success across a variety ofindustries and experiences.
(19:32):
Dei is expansive and dismantlingit will only DEI, whether it's
important to you or not DEI,whether it's important to you or
not.
So one of the things we haveseen over the last three weeks
is companies doubling down ontheir DEI initiatives and others
who are dismantling it.
(19:53):
And so I will look at this andsay that is a business decision.
I will look at this and saythat is a business decision, but
that is the company's businessdecision for them to make.
And so you then have to decidewhere you sit with this DEI
(20:20):
conversation and how importantit is for you as a gay man.
To me, diversity is important.
We have to acknowledge thequalifications, the experiences,
the backgrounds and looking atthem and saying, yes, but this
is where, if you follow socialmedia and you're looking at
(20:41):
things that people are puttingout there, that it is skewing
the conversation around DEI.
That is absolutely not helpful.
Or if you are someone directlyimpacted by DEI or you are an
ally for one of these groups, isthat think about how you show
(21:08):
up.
Think about how you're leadingyour teams.
Think about the hiringdecisions you're making right.
Think about who's getting theseat at the table.
Who are you bringing in forinterviews?
Are you truly looking at adiverse workforce or are you
(21:31):
merely skewing to one sidebecause of a personal or
professional bias, bias?
This DEI conversation is notdone, and as much as there are
people who are out there tryingto dismantle it, what I have
(21:51):
seen and will continue to seeand believe in my heart is that
this pendulum will continue toswing Somewhere.
It's going to land in themiddle, but this DEI
conversation is not going away,and so if you're actively
job-seeking, you should beprepared for how you might
(22:12):
answer a question around DEI.
Now, one of the things that DEIhas directly impacted and I can
share with you I have had morethan a couple handfuls of
conversations with people whohave reached out and have talked
to me about what they areseeing their organization do.
(22:34):
An ERG stands for an employeeresource group.
I have worked with employeeresource groups.
I have spoken to ERGs, I havebeen a part of ERGs, and so one
of the things I love aboutemployee resource groups is that
they do provide networkingopportunities that especially
(22:57):
help mid-level, mid-careerprofessionals expand their
visibility and access leadership.
Ergs are great opportunities toinform, educate, support, train
, mentor, and what they also dois they provide a sense of
(23:20):
belonging and support.
Companies with strong DEIinitiatives tend to have
stronger or higher retentionrates because employees feel
seen and they feel valued andincluded, and ERGs provide safe
spaces for employees to sharechallenges and experiences.
So, as a gay man, I have beenpart of ERGs, and knowing that
(23:45):
there were other people like mewithin that organization, even
if it was just for anopportunity to go grab a cup of
coffee with, gave me somebodyelse in my network.
I wouldn't have known otherwise.
What it also tapped me intowere allies who were the people
that I felt comfortable with andI trusted, and when my husband
(24:10):
and I got married, it wasimportant for us to include
those people whom we workedclosely with at our wedding,
that we wanted them to come be apart of it, because we
appreciated and valued theirallyship.
That wouldn't have happened ifthose people weren't open and
(24:36):
willing to engage and have thoseconversations with us that
simply said, hey, you're valued,you're valued as a professional
.
So for many of you and I knowmany is a vague and obscure term
(24:57):
, but I'm going to use it.
For many of you, if you areseeing your ERGs being
dismantled, disbanded, notallowed to meet, it doesn't mean
that you cannot find allyshipand support within your
organization.
It may not be as easy, and if Iwere working in a corporate
(25:22):
setting and I worked in a placewhere my ERGs were being
dismantled, my heart would bebreaking very, very heavily in
that.
But you have a network, youhave a way to build that, and so
, again, this is anotheropportunity for you to figure
out where you want to show up.
Where does that bring us?
(25:43):
At the time of this episodedrops on February 11th, we are
three weeks and one day intothis new administration and we
will continue to move throughthis new administration, and so
(26:06):
you have to know the playingfield, you have to know what is
happening within yourorganization, within your
department, and you may need to,you may need to have some very
intentional conversations withyour colleagues, with your
leadership, with your loved onesat home about where your career
(26:30):
is at and where it's going andwhat is the best move for you.
You may decide that if youdecide to build your mid-career
GPS to something else, that youwill align yourself to companies
and organizations that are abetter fit for you.
They're a better fit for you interms of the organizational
(26:53):
culture, the climate, the workand you may decide that pursuing
an opportunity with thatorganization is the best move
for you.
I also want to offer you toreshape the way you are
interviewing right now.
This is an opportunity for youto interview more strategically
(27:16):
and if you want some help inprepping for your interview
shameless plug here I do have aDIY course on my website.
It is called A Simple Five-StepStrategy for Crushing your Next
Interview.
It is currently selling for $27.
These are the same strategiesand tips and tactics I share
with my private one-on-onecoaching clients.
(27:37):
I invite you to go to mywebsite, https://johnneral.
com/courses, to check that out.
But 27 bucks for some may be alot of money, for others may not
.
It is packed with a ton ofvalue.
I invite you to check that outand implement those five
strategies to shift the way youare interviewing and having
these conversations right now.
(27:59):
Additionally, you got toleverage your network.
If there is one thing that Iknow is absolutely going to
happen as a result of all ofthis stuff is that people will
build stronger relationshipswith their network and they will
leverage them differently.
So who are the people in yournetwork, who are the people you
(28:24):
need to be pulling into yournetwork, who are the people you
need to be talking to, and whatdoes that mean?
What does that mean for you andyour career growth?
And, lastly, this is an evenbigger opportunity for you to
show up and come from that placeof value and service.
Focus on solving a particularproblem, whether it is within
(28:47):
your current organization or anew one, but make sure you are
solving a problem that yourorganization needs help solving,
that you've listeneddiagnostically and intuitively,
you have done your research, youknow this is a pain point and
you know you are the person tobe the one to show up and solve
(29:08):
that particular problem.
This is no different from whatwe've talked about before.
Nothing is new here regardingthat approach, but the landscape
is certainly different, becauseit is fair to say that, as
companies take longer to hiretalent into positions.
They're being more selectivethan ever.
(29:32):
That's why the timeline forfinding a quote-unquote
white-collar job is taking alittle bit longer, and if you
want to find that job, then byall means.
It is how you clearly andcleanly tell your story from a
place of value and service thatgets people more interested in
(29:52):
who you are and what you dorather than finding you
interesting.
I'm going to leave you with thisfinal note Whatever side of the
aisle you're on, whateverindustry you work in or whatever
you are doing right now,whether you are actively seeking
(30:16):
a job or you are merely justtrying to hold it together in
this job market, I see you, Ihear you, I feel for you.
This has been one of the moststressful and difficult times in
our job market and, admittedly,I believe it's all part of the
(30:39):
plan.
I mean emails that get sent outlate at night, right, that
disrupt your sleep pattern.
Come on, we've worked forbosses that have done that.
I have worked in organizationswhere we used to refer to Friday
as who's getting fired Friday,and it was like clockwork.
(31:03):
Hr would walk down, pick peopleoff and be like well, they're
gone.
This week, leadership shows upin a certain way and while you
cannot control how leadershipshows up, you can control how
you react to it.
So think about how you aremanaging the chaos and the
(31:24):
stress that's going on amidsteverything you have going on in
your life and taking care ofyour loved ones and your
families and your bills andeverything else.
If there's one big takeawayfrom this episode, I hope I gave
you some things to consider.
I hope I gave you some thingsto think about, but, more
importantly, perhaps you feel alittle validated.
(31:45):
Perhaps you feel a littlevalidated that, yeah, things
aren't ideal right now.
This is not a job seeker'smarket, but there are still jobs
out there to be had, and so Iinvite you to check out my free
resources on my website,johnnerrellcom.
I invite you to check out someof my low ticket offers that are
(32:07):
there.
Get on the wait list for my newmid-career community and,
lastly, remember this you willbuild your mid-career GPS one
mile or one step at a time, andhow you show up matters.
That's what you can control howyou show up.
(32:27):
So make it a great rest of yourday and I'll be back with you
next week.
All right, take care of myfriends, be well, hang in there.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
(32:49):
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(33:10):
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
Hey there, this episode has been a little
challenging for me to plan andto record Now.
Admittedly, the easier routewould have been for me to just
do another episode about how youshould be optimizing your
LinkedIn at the beginning of theyear, and that's certainly
important, but it's really notwhat's on everyone's minds right
(00:22):
now.
But it's really not what's oneveryone's minds right now,
given the new presidentialadministration that took office
a few weeks ago.
We know there have been a lotof changes and some people are
in favor of it and others arenot, and I want to be clear that
(00:44):
this episode is not about megoing on some type of political
rant, because this podcast ispolitically agnostic.
I know there are people fromboth sides of the aisle who
listen, and I am grateful foryou being here, but there are
some things in this episode thatI will share with you, and I
invite you to stick around tohear how all of this relates to
the current job market and howyou can be navigating it this
(01:08):
week.
It is time you and I take anobjective and realistic look at
the current state of the jobmarket, discuss what is being
called as the white-collarrecession, the impact on the
dismantling of DEI and explorehow you can position yourself
more strategically within thisjob market, to your benefit and
(01:29):
success.
There are undoubtedly manymoving parts and in this episode
, my goal is to provide you withthe most valuable and relevant
tips to help you build yourmid-career GPS right now.
So let's get started.
(01:58):
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
Before I dive into this week'sepisode, I understand that many
of you would love to have acareer coach help you make your
(02:19):
next move, but may not have thefinancial resources to hire one
privately.
In this job market, ascompanies continue to cut back
on employee resource groups andprofessional development, you
taking the opportunity to investin your career growth is vital
to your success.
That's why I am announcing anew mid-career community for
(02:42):
people like you, whether you'relooking to find the job you love
or level up on your leadership.
This monthly membership isdesigned to help you find that
job you will fall in love with.
This community will belaunching soon, in the next few
weeks, and if you want to be thefirst to hear about updates and
information regarding itslaunch, including how to get a
(03:05):
special founder's rate.
You wanna get on the wait list,so the easiest thing to do is
go to my website athttps://johnneral.
com.
Right there on the homepage.
As you scroll down, you willsee a button to get on the wait
list.
That gets you into my emailcommunity and a special list for
(03:26):
those interested in being partof this mid-career GPS community
, and I look forward tolaunching this in the upcoming
weeks and having you be a partof it so together we can help
you figure out whatever is goingto be next for you and your
career your career.
Okay, we got a lot to cover thisweek and, as I shared in the
(03:48):
introduction, I do my best tokeep this podcast politically
agnostic, but, given the currentTrump administration, what we
(04:08):
know is that over these lastthree weeks between Doge and
what Elon Musk is doing underPresident Trump's direction or
guidance, however, you want tosee that a lot's happening, and
if you have not had anopportunity to read Project 2025
, I invite you to read it.
I invite you to look and searchfor comparisons between what it
says in the document and what'salready been enacted, but in
(04:30):
all respect, this should not bea surprise.
Okay, just to get this out ofthe way, if you are new to me or
you haven't been following mefor a while, I tend to lean left
, but I tend to lean left middle.
Okay.
So I just share that with youso you understand where I come
from, and my job in this episodefor you is to help dissect some
(04:55):
of the things that arehappening and where it may
already have or couldpotentially impact your job and
the job market this year.
Right?
So please know that mypolitical views in this episode
don't matter.
They don't.
As I say at the end of everyepisode, how we show up matters,
(05:17):
and that is what we willcontinue to focus on.
My purpose in doing this podcastis to share information with
you that everybody needs to helpthem build their mid-career GPS
.
Also, I want you to know that,as a coach, a colleague, a
friend and a spouse, there arestories and circumstances that I
(05:39):
have heard that I will not bespecifically sharing in this
episode, in part because there'sconfidentiality.
But secondly, that is moreexperiential information and
while I will share somegeneralities, the specifics are
things you will certainly havegleaned and gained from your own
(06:01):
network and your own circle ofpeople with whom you are talking
with on a regular basis.
So my experiences are limited,based on my own circle, but I do
want to offer they are broad,given the expansiveness of my
network and the people with whomI've been talking with over the
last few weeks.
(06:22):
Here's the other thing.
If you are not looking at jobreports, I want to invite you to
do that.
One of the easiest ways is justto go to Google and set up a
Google Alert with a certain tagregarding job reports.
But I want to offer you thatthis is an opportunity to look
at two different types of data.
(06:42):
The first is reporting data.
Look at two different types ofdata.
The first is reporting data.
Okay, so that would be thingslike information that's coming
out of the US Department ofLabor.
You can go to websites likeIndeed, glassdoor, ziprecruiter,
linkedin, flexjobs, forbes.
There's plenty of places whereyou can go to get those job
(07:02):
reports and hear theirparticular spin, interpretation
or information about it.
I also want to invite you tocheck out reputable news outlets
.
So these are more legacy newsoutlets, even though we know
some of them tend to lean oneside or the other.
(07:23):
But if you're like me, you areconsuming that information from
a variety of different resources.
I will tell you, I have somefriends of mine that are pretty
shocked to hear that I sometimeslisten to the other side and
check in with that, but I feelthat's important for me to do
that because that helps me bemore informed in terms of making
the decisions and the reactionsthat I have.
(07:45):
You have social media,certainly, whatever platform you
are on, and you're consumingthat content.
More than likely, you areseeing content that as political
in nature, be it on one side,the other or both.
Okay, but again, I want toinvite you to make sure that you
(08:05):
are exploring multiple sourcesto gather your information
regarding these job reports andtake all of that information and
use it to inform your thoughtsand opinions about where you
feel you need to be moving inthis job market.
The other piece of data toexamine here is experiential
(08:27):
data, and that is data that youare seeing from either yourself
in your current position orindustry, or these are what your
friends and colleagues areseeing and sharing with you as
well, hearing stories from thefront lines, from people who
have been directly impacted oraffected by the changes that
(08:50):
have specifically been happeningover the last three weeks gives
you a different lens than whatyou are seeing or reading
through the job reports and thevarious news outlets.
Not everything is going to getreported and we know the social
media algorithms tend to skewwhatever you're clicking on.
(09:12):
So I was sharing this withsomeone the other day and I was
saying how, look, if you wantedgolden retriever puppies in your
feed, all you have to do isclick on two or three of them
and you now will be flooded withgolden retriever puppies in
your feed.
Okay.
If you want funny cat videos,the same thing kind of applies,
(09:34):
okay.
So understand that your socialmedia is going to skew based on
the algorithm, based on whatyou're clicking on.
It should not be a surprise.
Algorithm based on what you'reclicking on Should not be a
surprise.
So now that you've taken a lookat some job reports and we
should be expecting job reportsevery single month and once
(09:54):
those job reports are released,for a few days afterwards,
you're going to get everybodykind of spinning what they are
seeing and hearing.
But there was a term that cameup in 2024 that is important for
me to call out in this episode,and that term is white-collar
recession.
Now, by definition, awhite-collar recession refers to
(10:18):
a potentially economicsituation where there is a
significant decline in jobopportunities for professional
office-based workers likemanagers, analysts, corporate
staff, while other sectors ofthe economy might remain
relatively stable, leading toincreased unemployment and
(10:39):
difficulty finding newwhite-collar jobs among this
demographic.
Can you tell?
I read that exactly, because Ijust wanted to make sure I got
that all out there, okay?
So white-collar recession isgoing to hit specifically those
mid-level to senior-levelcorporate-type jobs where
companies are going to look andthey're gonna see if there's
(11:02):
really a need for you on the orgchart and how much it's costing
the company to have you in thatspecific space.
So if you are a typicalwhite-collared professional,
right your corporate job,corporate-type industry.
What I want you to know is that,from everything I've been
reading and seeing, that thiswill impact specific jobs,
(11:26):
mostly at middle management andadministrative roles.
Part of the reason here couldbe to looking at how they can
cut costs, maybe due toincreased automation,
streamlining operations, forexample, looking to see how many
people need to be in a specificrole, looking at resource
allocations for that work to getdone, as well as economic
(11:50):
uncertainty.
So we know typically when theeconomy isn't doing as well, we
tend to see jobs become fewer.
But now, with AI and increasedautomation, companies are
certainly taking a look to sayhey, do we need four people in
this role?
Can we get by with just one?
(12:11):
Now, when we contrast what'shappening with white-collar jobs
and compare that withblue-collar ones, what we've
typically seen is that theblue-collar sector like
manufacturing, construction,hospitality in some areas of
hospitality, they may continueto see demand for labor, and so
(12:33):
what happens is is we may seequote unquote blue-collar jobs
rise but white-collar jobsdecline, and that may look like
the job market is holding steadyor even increasing in some way.
But if you're not finding thetype of job that best suits your
skill set and background,that's where you need to be
(12:54):
paying attention.
So thinking about whereadvanced technology like AI may
be coming into play, or wherecompanies may be looking to cut
costs, or how people are comingto the office versus working
remotely.
If you have followed me for awhile or if you are new, my
(13:19):
message will never change onthis, and that is the best way
you can leverage yourself intoyour current or new position is
by clearly and cleanlycommunicating why you are
valuable, how you are going tohelp them solve a particular
(13:41):
problem and paint the picturefor where your work within that
organization moves both them andyou forward, so they see the
value in bringing you on.
If we take a look at the lastthree weeks, at what has been
(14:02):
happening in the federalgovernment, we don't have to
look any further than DOGE, theDepartment of Governmental
Efficiency, led by Elon Musk.
We have seen the impact takento USAID.
We have heard conversationsaround the Department of
(14:23):
Education.
At the time of this recordingthere was plans to take a look
at what's happening in thePentagon.
It's kind of hard for me totalk about specific things like
this because who knows what'sgoing to change by the time this
episode drops.
The wind could blow a differentway.
But again, if you've readProject 2025 and you see what's
going on, you kind of see thepattern.
(14:45):
So the discussion here is onwhere can cutbacks be made,
where can things be streamlined?
But of course, the fear is ifyou're going to let certain
number of people go, how didthey get absorbed into the job
market?
Who are the people that willtake some time off because they
(15:07):
financially can do that and whoare the people that are living
paycheck to paycheck, that needto find a job immediately if
they're losing their job.
And look, you may have been afactor in this.
I certainly have been a factorof this, in terms of companies
going through restructuring andreorganization and trying to
(15:30):
figure out where you're going toland.
It's scary when you think, ohmy gosh, how am I going to make
my bills, how am I going to goand do this?
Or we've got this big expensecoming up, or I don't want to
put another expense on my creditcard, all of those things.
So I'm okay with theconversation around how can we
(15:54):
improve efficiency and cut costswhere necessary?
But we have to look at it verybroadly, in my opinion.
Okay, and so there's nothingwrong in the conversation quote
unquote.
But if it's going to directlyimpact you, then you have to
figure out where do you land.
(16:16):
No surprise we've seen the techindustry take a big hit in 2024.
And everything I'm seeing andreading and hearing is that that
will most likely continue atleast into half the year in 2025
.
So if you're in the tech sectorand you're looking for a job,
(16:36):
admittedly that may be a littlemore difficult for you.
It doesn't mean it's impossible.
As a coach, I work with myclients on helping them clean up
their thoughts so we get themin the right mindset, but then
also it is about helpingstrategically leverage them in
the market.
And please know that if you arethinking that a job search is
(16:59):
not going to take you a lot oftime right now, I have to tell
you you're mistaken A lot.
If I put that in air, quotescan mean some very, very
different things, but by thetime you start looking,
networking, applying,interviewing easily you're
looking at least two months Onaverage.
(17:22):
We're seeing five months.
On the other end of the scaleit's probably eight months.
It all depends on the factorsand things you can control as to
how they impact your job searchright now.
Now the other thing I want tobring up here is the impact
we're seeing on DEI, diversity,equity and inclusion.
(17:45):
I am someone who will alwaysadvocate that a diverse,
equitable and inclusiveworkforce is to an
organization's strength.
Research has shown that diverseteams make better decisions and
drive more revenue.
(18:05):
You can look at McKinsey.
You can look at the HarvardBusiness Review.
According to research byCloverpop, they say that diverse
teams are 87% better at makingdecisions.
Companies with strong DEIinitiatives tend to attract top
talent, including experiencedmid-career professionals who
(18:27):
desire, crave and want to workin inclusive environments, and
we have seen time and time againthe participation in DEI
initiatives help professionalsdevelop skills around things
like conflict resolution,emotional intelligence,
cross-culture communication thatare not only valuable at any
(18:47):
career stage, but they areglobal skills that ensure
success across a variety ofindustries and experiences.
(19:32):
Dei is expansive and dismantlingit will only DEI, whether it's
important to you or not DEI,whether it's important to you or
not.
So one of the things we haveseen over the last three weeks
is companies doubling down ontheir DEI initiatives and others
who are dismantling it.
(19:53):
And so I will look at this andsay that is a business decision.
I will look at this and saythat is a business decision, but
that is the company's businessdecision for them to make.
And so you then have to decidewhere you sit with this DEI
(20:20):
conversation and how importantit is for you as a gay man.
To me, diversity is important.
We have to acknowledge thequalifications, the experiences,
the backgrounds and looking atthem and saying, yes, but this
is where, if you follow socialmedia and you're looking at
(20:41):
things that people are puttingout there, that it is skewing
the conversation around DEI.
That is absolutely not helpful.
Or if you are someone directlyimpacted by DEI or you are an
ally for one of these groups, isthat think about how you show
(21:08):
up.
Think about how you're leadingyour teams.
Think about the hiringdecisions you're making right.
Think about who's getting theseat at the table.
Who are you bringing in forinterviews?
Are you truly looking at adiverse workforce or are you
(21:31):
merely skewing to one sidebecause of a personal or
professional bias, bias?
This DEI conversation is notdone, and as much as there are
people who are out there tryingto dismantle it, what I have
(21:51):
seen and will continue to seeand believe in my heart is that
this pendulum will continue toswing Somewhere.
It's going to land in themiddle, but this DEI
conversation is not going away,and so if you're actively
job-seeking, you should beprepared for how you might
(22:12):
answer a question around DEI.
Now, one of the things that DEIhas directly impacted and I can
share with you I have had morethan a couple handfuls of
conversations with people whohave reached out and have talked
to me about what they areseeing their organization do.
(22:34):
An ERG stands for an employeeresource group.
I have worked with employeeresource groups.
I have spoken to ERGs, I havebeen a part of ERGs, and so one
of the things I love aboutemployee resource groups is that
they do provide networkingopportunities that especially
(22:57):
help mid-level, mid-careerprofessionals expand their
visibility and access leadership.
Ergs are great opportunities toinform, educate, support, train
, mentor, and what they also dois they provide a sense of
(23:20):
belonging and support.
Companies with strong DEIinitiatives tend to have
stronger or higher retentionrates because employees feel
seen and they feel valued andincluded, and ERGs provide safe
spaces for employees to sharechallenges and experiences.
So, as a gay man, I have beenpart of ERGs, and knowing that
(23:45):
there were other people like mewithin that organization, even
if it was just for anopportunity to go grab a cup of
coffee with, gave me somebodyelse in my network.
I wouldn't have known otherwise.
What it also tapped me intowere allies who were the people
that I felt comfortable with andI trusted, and when my husband
(24:10):
and I got married, it wasimportant for us to include
those people whom we workedclosely with at our wedding,
that we wanted them to come be apart of it, because we
appreciated and valued theirallyship.
That wouldn't have happened ifthose people weren't open and
(24:36):
willing to engage and have thoseconversations with us that
simply said, hey, you're valued,you're valued as a professional
.
So for many of you and I knowmany is a vague and obscure term
(24:57):
, but I'm going to use it.
For many of you, if you areseeing your ERGs being
dismantled, disbanded, notallowed to meet, it doesn't mean
that you cannot find allyshipand support within your
organization.
It may not be as easy, and if Iwere working in a corporate
(25:22):
setting and I worked in a placewhere my ERGs were being
dismantled, my heart would bebreaking very, very heavily in
that.
But you have a network, youhave a way to build that, and so
, again, this is anotheropportunity for you to figure
out where you want to show up.
Where does that bring us?
(25:43):
At the time of this episodedrops on February 11th, we are
three weeks and one day intothis new administration and we
will continue to move throughthis new administration, and so
(26:06):
you have to know the playingfield, you have to know what is
happening within yourorganization, within your
department, and you may need to,you may need to have some very
intentional conversations withyour colleagues, with your
leadership, with your loved onesat home about where your career
(26:30):
is at and where it's going andwhat is the best move for you.
You may decide that if youdecide to build your mid-career
GPS to something else, that youwill align yourself to companies
and organizations that are abetter fit for you.
They're a better fit for you interms of the organizational
(26:53):
culture, the climate, the workand you may decide that pursuing
an opportunity with thatorganization is the best move
for you.
I also want to offer you toreshape the way you are
interviewing right now.
This is an opportunity for youto interview more strategically
(27:16):
and if you want some help inprepping for your interview
shameless plug here I do have aDIY course on my website.
It is called A Simple Five-StepStrategy for Crushing your Next
Interview.
It is currently selling for $27.
These are the same strategiesand tips and tactics I share
with my private one-on-onecoaching clients.
(27:37):
I invite you to go to mywebsite, https://johnneral.
com/courses, to check that out.
But 27 bucks for some may be alot of money, for others may not
.
It is packed with a ton ofvalue.
I invite you to check that outand implement those five
strategies to shift the way youare interviewing and having
these conversations right now.
(27:59):
Additionally, you got toleverage your network.
If there is one thing that Iknow is absolutely going to
happen as a result of all ofthis stuff is that people will
build stronger relationshipswith their network and they will
leverage them differently.
So who are the people in yournetwork, who are the people you
(28:24):
need to be pulling into yournetwork, who are the people you
need to be talking to, and whatdoes that mean?
What does that mean for you andyour career growth?
And, lastly, this is an evenbigger opportunity for you to
show up and come from that placeof value and service.
Focus on solving a particularproblem, whether it is within
(28:47):
your current organization or anew one, but make sure you are
solving a problem that yourorganization needs help solving,
that you've listeneddiagnostically and intuitively,
you have done your research, youknow this is a pain point and
you know you are the person tobe the one to show up and solve
(29:08):
that particular problem.
This is no different from whatwe've talked about before.
Nothing is new here regardingthat approach, but the landscape
is certainly different, becauseit is fair to say that, as
companies take longer to hiretalent into positions.
They're being more selectivethan ever.
(29:32):
That's why the timeline forfinding a quote-unquote
white-collar job is taking alittle bit longer, and if you
want to find that job, then byall means.
It is how you clearly andcleanly tell your story from a
place of value and service thatgets people more interested in
(29:52):
who you are and what you dorather than finding you
interesting.
I'm going to leave you with thisfinal note Whatever side of the
aisle you're on, whateverindustry you work in or whatever
you are doing right now,whether you are actively seeking
(30:16):
a job or you are merely justtrying to hold it together in
this job market, I see you, Ihear you, I feel for you.
This has been one of the moststressful and difficult times in
our job market and, admittedly,I believe it's all part of the
(30:39):
plan.
I mean emails that get sent outlate at night, right, that
disrupt your sleep pattern.
Come on, we've worked forbosses that have done that.
I have worked in organizationswhere we used to refer to Friday
as who's getting fired Friday,and it was like clockwork.
(31:03):
Hr would walk down, pick peopleoff and be like well, they're
gone.
This week, leadership shows upin a certain way and while you
cannot control how leadershipshows up, you can control how
you react to it.
So think about how you aremanaging the chaos and the
(31:24):
stress that's going on amidsteverything you have going on in
your life and taking care ofyour loved ones and your
families and your bills andeverything else.
If there's one big takeawayfrom this episode, I hope I gave
you some things to consider.
I hope I gave you some thingsto think about, but, more
importantly, perhaps you feel alittle validated.
(31:45):
Perhaps you feel a littlevalidated that, yeah, things
aren't ideal right now.
This is not a job seeker'smarket, but there are still jobs
out there to be had, and so Iinvite you to check out my free
resources on my website,johnnerrellcom.
I invite you to check out someof my low ticket offers that are
(32:07):
there.
Get on the wait list for my newmid-career community and,
lastly, remember this you willbuild your mid-career GPS one
mile or one step at a time, andhow you show up matters.
That's what you can control howyou show up.
(32:27):
So make it a great rest of yourday and I'll be back with you
next week.
All right, take care of myfriends, be well, hang in there.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
(32:49):
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(33:10):
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
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