February 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Are you ready to elevate your leadership skills and navigate mid-career transitions with confidence?
In this episode of The Mid-Career GPS Podcast, I sit down with leadership and talent expert Jordana Cole to uncover the essential leadership qualities that drive success in 2025 and beyond.
Jordana shares her transformational journey—from managing client services teams to leading organizational learning and development—highlighting the power of long-term growth strategies. Whether you’ve recently stepped into a leadership role or are striving to refine your management approach, this episode delivers actionable insights to help you lead with impact.
We discuss:
✅ Why High Performers Struggle in Leadership Roles – The challenges of transitioning from technical expert to effective leader
✅ Leadership Competencies That Matter – What separates great leaders from the rest (backed by Gallup research)
✅ Creating a Thriving Work Environment – Strategies to engage, motivate, and retain top talent
✅ The Power of Stay Interviews – How to assess employee satisfaction and boost retention
✅ Managing Difficult Conversations – Using empathy and transparency to build trust
✅ Recalibrating Leadership Goals – Shifting from fear-based decisions to growth-driven opportunities.
Leadership is more than a title—it’s a mindset. This episode equips mid-career professionals with the tools to foster open dialogue, embrace adaptability, and redefine career success.
Gain expert strategies for leading with confidence, crafting a high-performance team, and achieving long-term career fulfillment.
Connect with Jordana Cole: Website | LinkedIn
Thank you for listening to The Mid-Career GPS Podcast.
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Visit https://johnneral.com/resources for free and low-ticket resources, including how to join The Mid-Career GPS Membership Community.
Visit https://johnneral.com to join The Mid-Career GPS Newsletter, a free, twice-weekly career and leadership resource for mid-career professionals.
Connect with John on LinkedIn here.
Get John's New Mid-Career Journal on Amazon here.
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Subscribe to John's YouTube Channel here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
It may seem like a badge of honor to have a
horrible manager, but come on,you and I both know that a
leader can make all thedifference as to whether you
stay in that organization or gowork somewhere else, and if
you're leading or aspiring tolead talent, how you lead makes
a ton of difference regardingyour team's effectiveness.
(00:22):
So please, don't be one ofthose horrible leaders.
However, I've often said thatit's been my quote unquote bad
managers who shaped how I've led, because I never wanted to do
that to any of my team members.
How you lead is a big part ofyour mid-career GPS, and today I
am joined by Jordana Cole, whoignites behavioral change that
(00:46):
doesn't just stick, it spreads.
In this episode, jordana and Idiscuss what makes great leaders
in 2025 and why they are sodesperately needed, how to
clearly define what it means tothrive in your leadership and
career, to create truetransformational change, how to
retain great employees and howto identify what's in your
(01:09):
control as you build yourmid-career GPS.
So let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
(01:33):
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
My guest today is Jordana Cole,and, as a recognized leadership
coach, consultant, workshopfacilitator and learning and
development strategist, jordanaempowers leaders to transform
behaviors that unlock teampotential and drive business
(01:56):
results.
Her background leading teams inL&D strategy, within nonprofits
, higher education, financialservices, e-commerce and tech
industries.
Jordana thrives in bridging thegap between HR and business
units, where she draws upon heradvanced education in the
(02:17):
psychology of well-being.
It is her diverse backgroundthat brings so much to this
conversation, because one of thethings Jordana excels at is
making magic when she is facedwith limited resources, so she
can help organizations buildscalable, sustainable approaches
(02:38):
from scratch.
Now, this is a conversationthat is relevant and applicable
to any leader at any level, butit is especially for you, as a
mid-career, mid-level leader whomight be looking to level up
their career and make a greaterimpact within your organization,
that I want you to payparticular attention to
(03:01):
Jordana's tips and informationwithin this episode.
So it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Jordana Cole.
Hey there, jordana.
Welcome to the show.
It's great to have you here.
Jordana Cole (03:15):
Thanks, john, I'm thrilled to be here.
John Neral (03:17):
Yeah, you and I connected at the end of last
year and I wanted you to come onthe podcast specifically today
to talk a little bit about yourleadership journey, but also
what leadership specificallylooks like for mid-career
professionals.
But before we get into all that, please share with us what was
your mid-career moment.
Jordana Cole (03:36):
Yeah.
So my mid-career momenthappened about a decade ago.
At the time I was leading anaccount management team, a
client services team, andfeeling a little burnt out on my
role and didn't reallyunderstand why.
And after some assessments,conversations and reflections I
(04:00):
realized that I loved that withthe team I managed that more and
more of my job was focused onfighting fires instead of
starting them within people, asa friend of mine told me later
on.
And I made the consciousdecision to completely move into
a different field and, whiletechnically taking a step back
from managing a team, it wasactually taking a step forward
(04:23):
in leadership.
So I moved from directmanagement of a client account
team to organizationalleadership, moving into
enterprise organizationallearning and development and
leadership development, whichI've done for over a decade with
different industries, differentsize companies and really
(04:43):
working with teams, leadersacross the entire enterprise of
a company and helping them growand bring out more potential in
themselves and others.
John Neral (04:55):
So for someone who is hearing this and they're
curious about what your clientinteraction, your day-to-day is
like, give us, us the30,000-foot overview in terms of
where your touchpoints areduring a given day.
Jordana Cole (05:09):
Every day is different.
Exactly, there's a little bitof that.
I think.
Some of the things that aresimilar to when I was managing
the client success team is thatI had stakeholders, I had
expectations, I had deliverablesand I had meetings.
What was different is thatoftentimes in this type of work,
(05:31):
you're a team of one or a supersmall team, so you are
literally putting things outthere that impact the entire
company, but you're doing it invery scrappy and limited ways.
So that often means buildingbuy-in, building champions,
piloting.
So I'm talking to differentleaders, understanding their
(05:51):
needs, I'm actually selling, butI'm selling ideas and I'm
selling ideas internally ratherthan actually selling products
and I'm testing and learning alot.
So one of the things that Ilearned a lot in this work is
that I might have an idea and agoal of what I'm headed for, and
instead of building somethingout beautifully and then rolling
(06:14):
it out and getting upset whenpeople aren't adopting it, I'm
better served by starting small,piloting it, getting feedback,
getting participation and buy-in, and then building on it so
that it gets to a point whereit's actually going to add value
, because I'm working witheverybody and everybody is so
different that I need to figureout ways that I can create
(06:35):
consistency and clarity, whilealso enabling tailoring
customization to differentpeople's unique needs.
John Neral (06:44):
Sure, and certainly we know the kind of work you do
is absolutely needed and for Imean, it goes without saying
right, because leadership issuch a mission and a calling.
But one of the things that wereally resonated on when we
first met and started talkingwas that there's this arc for
(07:07):
certain mid-level, mid-careerprofessionals, where they
demonstrate technical expertise,they're extremely proficient,
they are celebrated by theirorganizations and they are then
thus anointed to manage peopleor lead a team in that regard,
(07:29):
and to do so, in all honesty,before they are ready or
well-equipped.
Why do we continue to see thismodel being implemented and,
secondly, what's the right stepto change that?
Jordana Cole (07:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think the reason we see it
implemented comes from, honestly, the best of intentions.
That has not great executionand outcomes.
Somebody is so great at whatthey do that we assume, if we
put them in charge of a group ofpeople who do the same thing
that they're doing, that they'llbe able to translate that and
(08:09):
boom, they're going to make allthe people underneath them
better.
And I see that happen in thingslike sales, for instance, where
you have your fantasticsalesperson, their top
salesperson in the company.
Okay, just take what you'redoing and teach other people how
to do the same thing.
But there's a couple ofproblems with that.
One, what makes you a fantasticsalesperson is a different
(08:32):
skill set than what makes you agreat leader.
There's been some reallyfascinating research from Gallup
over the past few years, andthey have a book called it's the
Manager, which indicates thatonly about 10% of people have
the skill set, aptitude, mindsetneeded to be successful
managers.
And I guarantee you those arenot the 10% that we're promoting
(08:54):
, right, or we're promoting alot more than that.
This is both kind of inchallenge and in solution is
that when people are promotedbecause what they are doing is
working, they assume that thatsame method will work for
everybody.
And you know, we each come withour own different strengths,
(09:15):
our own different skill sets,our own different motivators,
our own different experiencesand perspectives.
And what works for you, john,isn't necessarily what's going
to work for me.
So if I try and direct you todo X, y and Z just like how I
did it, you're not going to seethe outcomes that I did, because
(09:36):
we're not the same person andwe're both going to be
frustrated by it in the interim.
So I think there's a couplethings in here from a solution
standpoint.
One is really taking stock ofwhat are the true skills that
make somebody a great leader,and not just skills.
What are the mindsets, what arethe interests, what are the
(09:57):
competencies?
I think there are a lot oforganizations out there that
might have team competencies orindividual contributor
competencies, but they haven'tthought about that at the
leadership competencies orindividual contributor
competencies, but they haven'tthought about that at the
leadership level.
Or what they have is really,really vague and we often focus
on who's not doing it well andtrying to fix it, instead of
(10:18):
taking a step back and go.
Who are some of the bestleaders that we have in our
organization and by best leaders.
They're people who get resultsnot just in outcomes from the
business that is an importantcomponent of it.
They're people who also havehigh engagement, high retention,
high innovation, highcollaboration from their team.
It's the secret sauce thatmakes those outcomes happen, and
(10:39):
let's figure out what theyuniquely bring to the table and
use that to really identifythose skills, those competencies
, those mindsets.
And when we're assessing peoplefrom promotability and
particularly towards management,let's look at that and have
conversations around thoseparticular things and then let's
(11:00):
educate and train people andupskill them in those particular
things.
So I mean, it does requireinvestment of time and it does
require investment of resources.
So I think that's one piece.
I think the second piece isactually having conversations
about why they want to bemanagers and making sure that
they understand the trueresponsibility and work of
management before they actuallygo into management, rather than
(11:24):
just going, oh, I want a titleor yeah, you asked me if I
wanted to do this, so I feellike I had to say yes, I think
that's something that we can dobetter at.
And I think the third piece isrecognizing that those that we
manage are not like ourselves,and the best thing that we can
do when we take on leadershiproles is seek to understand our
people first, have conversationsabout what motivates them.
(11:47):
Have conversations about whatdemotivates them.
What are skills that might beuntapped, that they'd like to
use more of?
What's the best and worst wayto give them feedback?
What enables them to be attheir best?
What are some things that peoplemight do inadvertently that
brings out the worst in them?
It's kind of like doing thework upfront to get the cheat
(12:08):
sheet that's going to pay off inthe long run to help you be
successful.
But the problem is so oftenwhen we move somebody into
leadership, we tell them thatthey have to deliver on the
outcome so quickly that we don'tgive them the time and the
space to have the conversationsthat's going to bring out the
real understanding and gold thatwill enable those outcomes to
(12:30):
happen.
So I think it's a mindset shiftwith the people.
I think it's a change from thesystem standpoint in the
organization and a change inwhere we invest time and
resources, knowing that it'sgoing to produce outcomes down
the line.
John Neral (12:44):
Hey there, let me jump in really quick and ask you
something.
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about where your career isheaded?
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(13:07):
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(13:28):
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It is time to start buildingyour mid-career GPS, and now it
is time for us to get back tothe episode Jordana.
(13:52):
What you have just described is,especially in terms of the
skills, the mindset and thecompetencies, about recognizing
the mindset and the competencies, about recognizing where the
individual who is trulysuccessful in that management or
leadership role, where they getto thrive and I know that's a
(14:13):
huge part of your work.
The word thrive is one thatI've seen over the last like six
to eight months or so, when Ipeople will reach out on
LinkedIn and they'll they'llreach out and they'll say, oh, I
want a job where I can thrive,or I want to be in an
organization that lets theirpeople thrive, and I'll get
(14:34):
really curious with them to belike what does that exactly mean
?
Because it sounds great but inpracticality, we've got to
really kind of drill down tothat concrete piece about what
it means to really thrive Inyour work and in your experience
.
When you see an organizationand its leaders thrive, what
(14:55):
does that exactly look like?
Jordana Cole (14:58):
What a great question, john.
So I'll say a couple of thingsabout that.
Like, so I have.
I have a master's degree in thescience of well-being, which is
the science of thriving, so Icould go super academic.
They're at their best every dayand at their best in a way
(15:27):
where they are adding value andand they are feeling valued,
which is when we think about theword mattering.
That's like the best synthesisof definition, and there's a
researcher by the name of IsaacPilatensky.
That's his definition.
I love it.
You know, we thrive when we feellike we are adding value beyond
(15:47):
ourselves and where we arefeeling valued, we're recognized
in a way that's authentic to us, where we're contributing and
we're also growing.
So you know, we're not justkind of stagnant and baseline,
but we actually feel like we'regrowing and we're continuing to
(16:07):
grow and add value day in andday out, and it's being done so
in a way that's not at the costof other things that are
important to us, in a way that'snot at the cost of other things
that are important to us.
So I feel like, true, thrivingis it's this balance, where
you're adding value to theorganization and you're feeling
valued as a human being, whereyou can add that value without
(16:28):
also sacrificing the otherthings that are important to you
in your life, and that's a very, very hard balance to find,
especially in today's day andage, and I think that the
question that you just broughtup is an important one.
That word means differentthings to different people, so
that's my very generaldefinition.
However, it takes five minutesto ask somebody what does
(16:54):
thriving mean to you?
And I don't know that.
There are many organizationsout there, many leaders out
there, that are actually havingthat conversation.
You're saying that you want tobe in an organization that
enables you to thrive.
What would that look like foryou?
What would that mean for you?
What would be different for youif that happened?
It's a lot easy to action onthose things when you're hearing
the specifics from somebodythan when you're trying to kind
(17:17):
of crystal ball what it isthey're talking about.
John Neral (17:20):
It's such a great point, because that little pause
to ask people to clarify whatthey mean by that is what really
unlocks the ability to buildthat relationship, because now
we have that information aboutokay, this is what thriving
looks like for you.
Here's what it looks like here.
(17:41):
Let's see where it aligns,let's see where we need to close
a gap.
But without having thatconversation, that magic never
happens.
Yes, yeah when you're lookingahead here at 2025 and we're
seeing the ripple effects ofwhat's happened in 2024 in terms
(18:03):
of how it's impacting what workis going to look like and
whether or not people are makingmoves, how they are making
moves, what it may mean to be alittle more organizationally
loyal when people haven't alwaysbeen in the past.
Jordana Cole (18:20):
From a leadership lens Jordana what are the things
(18:50):
you see that are most good?
Organizations will try and makechanges based on what it is
that they're learning.
But the reason somebody left isnot the reason somebody decided
to look in the first place.
There's something that happenswhere, you know, suddenly an
individual goes from you know,being satisfied in their job and
(19:12):
their life, et cetera, and thensomething shifts and they start
to open to opportunitiesoutside of the organization.
So the reasons that they'resaying they're leaving might not
actually be the real thing thatyou should be solutioning for.
They're not the root and, youknow, oftentimes we don't get
the real answers right.
People are trying to burnbridges.
(19:34):
I think we'd be much moreeffective and I know that the
concept of stay interviews hasbeen around for a long time.
But going back to, how are youmaking your people feel valued
when they are there, not onlywhen they are leaving?
One of the best ways that youcan do that is having regular
conversations with the peoplethat you do value, not waiting
(19:57):
until they're at risk to like.
Beg them to stay because youneed them.
Letting them know upfront thatthey are valued.
Asking them, you know what.
What inspires them to bringtheir best every day asking them
.
You know what they need tocontinue to be at their best.
You know what are some thingsthat get in their way of being
(20:18):
able to be at their best.
So you don't have to ask it inthe lens of like, what will take
you to keep you to stay?
I think there's different waysto ask the question and get to
the heart of that.
And asking questions like thatand having regular conversations
do two things.
One, it gives you insight onyou know where there might be
things that you're notfulfilling that person that you
(20:39):
care about and what they need.
It also, though kind of underthe surface, shows that person
that they are valued.
You know, too often our time isstretched as leaders and we
wind up spending the majority ofour time with people who are
underperforming or people whoare, you know, squeaky wheel,
(20:59):
and that means that we tend totake the people that are really
great for granted because youknow they're not causing
problems, they're doing greatthings, and then next thing we
know that person is gone.
So spending that timeproactively to show them that
they matter and have thoseconversations really sets a tone
from a cultural and leadershipstandpoint.
(21:20):
It could also indirectlyinfluence who's talking to you.
Because if people see thatyou're spending more of your
time with your high performers,with their highly valued people,
who you want to keep, andyou're spending less time with
the people who are causingproblems, you might
subconsciously change the tonewith the people who are causing
problems.
You might subconsciously changethe tone of the people who are
causing problems.
So I think that the ongoingconversation is one of them.
(21:43):
I think the other piece is beinga strong leader for them.
You know there's enoughresearch out there that
indicates that people leavemanagers, they don't leave
companies, and I think one ofthe reasons that companies wind
up losing really great people isbecause either that person
doesn't have a strong leader orthere's been a leadership change
(22:05):
where that individual had areally great relationship with
their manager and that personhas either left or they've
brought in somebody else to leadthe team and that new person
who comes in isn't doing, youknow, their due diligence to
build that relationship or isn'tmodeling the same leadership
behaviors that person is used to.
So you know, even asking thatindividual like, what does great
(22:27):
leadership look like for them?
What do they need to feelsupported?
I think one of the challengesthat organizations have is they
shy away from these questionsbecause they're afraid it's
going to say, well, I want moremoney and they can't do that,
and that's not the reason to shyaway.
A couple things with that One.
(22:48):
If you really want loyalty, Ithink we need to think about how
we're incentivizing loyalty.
You know, we can't expectpeople to give more
discretionary effort to givemore loyalty if we're in a
culture where we're barelygiving, you know, a cost of
living increase or people arescared about their jobs.
That's not a culture thatbreeds a sense of loyalty.
(23:10):
So that's a piece of it, andyou know.
Number two is, I think thatthere's ways to both reframe the
conversation and also be honestin a way that actually builds
trust and loyalty rather thaneroding it.
So if you say to an individual,if they say, look, what's
(23:31):
important to me is money, youcan say to them I wish we were
in a position where I could giveyou, you know, an extra $10,000
a year If we had a budget forit.
If I was in a position where Icould do that, I would do that
instantaneously.
We're not.
I understand that that's reallyimportant to you.
What are some other things thatI could do that would make you
(23:55):
feel valued, and asking that acouple of times until you get to
that place.
I also think the nature of howyou ask the question is
important.
So a lot of people I coach knowone of my favorite things to ask
is what would make this 5%better?
And I specifically use thatterminology because I think too
often in engagement surveys weask like how do you like to be
recognized?
I specifically use thatterminology because I think too
(24:15):
often in engagement surveys weask like how do you like to be
recognized?
What feedback do you have forme?
What would make everythingbetter for you?
And then people ask for thingswe can't deliver on.
We get frustrated, they getfrustrated.
It creates this vicious cycle.
But when you ask something likeyou know what would make the
next year 5% better for you orwhat would make the next week 5%
(24:38):
better for you, because I trulycare about you.
I care about you beingsuccessful.
You add so much value.
Nine out of 10 times thatperson is going to respond with
something that you can actuallyact on.
That builds trust becauseyou're able to follow through on
(24:59):
the commitment and the ask thatthey had and you're also able
to display loyalty andcommitment in ways that don't
require grandiose things.
John Neral (25:05):
I like how you phrased all that, because what
you've done is you've given thepeople who are listening,
especially who have directreports or they're in positions
to have these conversations,some very tactical things that
they can offer.
That, admittedly, especiallyright now, what we see in this
(25:26):
economy, in this market, wheremoney may not be a bargaining
chip, that, what else might theybe able to leverage?
Yes, that, what else might theybe able to leverage?
Yes.
So we're gonna start wrappingup in a moment, but I would be
remissed if we didn't take a fewmoments to talk a little bit
about layoffs and hiring freezes, given what's happened last
(25:49):
month.
So for the listeners, we'rerecording this on January 22nd,
right after there was a bigannouncement of a federal hiring
freeze, and those can be reallydifficult conversations for
managers to have, especiallywhen teams are over-allocated,
they're overwhelmed, they mightbe experiencing some burnout.
(26:12):
What can you share with thelisteners today, jordana, about
being in that kind of role wherethey have to show up and
deliver some difficultinformation, but also
understanding that this may be atemporary and most likely is a
temporary circumstance to helpthem see through to the other
side?
Jordana Cole (26:33):
Yeah, yeah, first off, sorry, you're going through
that.
I think it's the hardest thingthat anybody has to do as a
leader, and I've been through itmyself and I've told leaders
who've been through it some forthe first time, some multiple
times that if it ever getseasier for you, that's probably
a good signal that it's time tohang up the leadership, the
(26:57):
leadership hat, the leadershipcoat I don't know what it is and
the fact that it's not easy foryou shows that you care about
the people who work for you.
I'd say there are a lot ofthings in that situation that
are outside of your control.
So how do you orient to what'sin your control?
(27:18):
And in that moment, what is inyour control is the words you
use, the actions that youdisplay.
Before you go into thoseconversations, ask yourself you
know what is?
What is the mindset that youneed to be in?
What?
What is the mindset that youneed to be in?
What are you trying to createfor an environment in this
(27:40):
conversation?
An ideal outcome isn't possiblein situations like that, so
let's recalibrate goals, andthat's also something to think
about for yourself in times likethis.
Stop comparing yourself to yourideal On an everyday basis.
You might have a scale of a oneto five, where five is your
best and one is your worst.
In days like that, your bestmight be a two and a half Sure,
(28:03):
and that's okay.
So let's recalibrate what goodlooks like in that, and so let's
say your mindset.
And, john, I'm going to kudosyou here.
Before we started thisconversation, you asked me what
my intention was for thisconversation.
I think that's an importantthing for leaders to bring in to
conversations like this.
(28:24):
What is my intention for theconversation with the person?
What is my conversation?
What is my intention for theconversation with the team?
What is my intention for beingwith myself?
And that intention might justbe creating a space where that
person feels heard, recognizingthat I might not be able to do
anything about it, where I feelfor them, but I just want them
(28:46):
to create a safe space wherethey can let out everything that
they're feelingnon-judgmentally, and let them
be heard.
Okay, what do I need to do froma lens of actions?
What do I need to do from alens of words to be able to
honor that intention?
That's in my control.
I can control creating a space.
I can't control whether or notthat person has a job.
(29:08):
I can't control what the futureis going to bring, but what I
can control is creating a spacewhere they feel heard.
John Neral (29:14):
I thank you for that and that's something which I'm
sure you and I have bothexperienced, where people kind
of overlook that and it's soimportant to offer that.
That is absolutely within yourtoolkit to hold that space to
make people feel heard andvalidated and recognized, and to
(29:37):
see what comes after that.
But that never happens unlessyou hold that space.
So I'm really glad you talkedabout that and thank you for
sharing that with everybody.
You're welcome, All right.
So here's the question wealways kind of wrap up with,
which is what advice would yougive the listeners today to help
them build their mid-career GPSto whatever is next for them in
(29:58):
their career?
Jordana Cole (29:59):
Yeah.
So I think my advice to themwould be go towards something
because you're excited for it,versus running away from
something that you don't like.
Everything is scary, and, youknow, every time I've made a
(30:20):
change in my career, I've beennervous as heck Right and like I
didn't know what was going towork out.
I was terrified, but I was alsoexcited.
I joke, I have this phrase I'mnervous-sided, and it's because
anxiousness and excitement arekind of two sides of the same
coin.
I see too many times people notmaking a move because they're
(30:43):
scared and they allow that fearto overtake them, and that's not
to say there are certain timesin our lives where, or certain
situations where, we can't makechanges because there are
important things that we needfoundationally.
I 100% respect that, and I'vebeen there myself.
If you have that, though, andyou're just afraid and playing
kind of the what ifs, you'regoing to wind up then having to
(31:07):
make a change later on, eitherbecause it's one that's forced
upon you or it's one that youjust have no other options, and
then you're going to be doing itout of fear.
On the other side of things,because you're leaving something
you hate or, under last resort,because you're leaving
something you hate or, underlast resort, jump into the
(31:27):
nervous-sided.
Even if it's in a little bit ofsmall ways, it's a lot better to
make a movement because you'relooking towards something and
you're aiming for something,rather than you're running away
from something, and then thelast thing that I would say is
fewer and fewer people arewanting to go into leadership
right now, and I think it'sbecome clearer what a
responsibility leadership is.
Certainly everything that'shappened since COVID and just a
(31:52):
lot of what's going on in theworld and the weight that people
are carrying with them intowork.
We need great leaders now morethan ever before, and while it
might mean fewer people areinterested in becoming leaders,
I do think if you enjoy bringingout the best in people, if you
(32:12):
enjoy creating a space wherepeople can grow and succeed and
you can set right expectationsfor them, if the idea of that
work feels hard and exciting andyou're nervous-sided about it,
we need you.
So please, no matter whatimposter syndrome you've got, go
for it, because we need leaderslike you.
John Neral (32:33):
We certainly do Absolutely Well, jordana.
This has been a wonderfulconversation.
I thank you.
If the listeners want to learnmore about you, connect with you
, find what's going on in yourworld, I'm going to turn the mic
over to you.
Share all the good things wherepeople can connect.
Jordana Cole (32:48):
Thanks, john.
Yeah, so a couple of greatplaces to connect with me.
You can check out my website,ignitedbyjordanacom.
You can connect to set up acall with me.
You can email me from there.
I've got a whole bunch ofdifferent articles and resources
you can check out on there aswell.
I'm super, super active onLinkedIn.
(33:10):
I always love connecting withpeople over LinkedIn, so please
connect with me, drop me amessage, let me know that you
listened to this episode andwould love to have those
connections too, because I amactually working on a book that
I hope will be out by the end ofthis year helping people ignite
their leadership and really setthe tone for their day, and
bite-size actionable pieces toignite better performance,
(33:33):
engagement and potential intheir people and in themselves.
So if you enjoyed what youheard today, I hope that you'll
follow me, connect with me andstay tuned for that book.
John Neral (33:45):
Well, congrats on the book, and I will make sure
all of that information is inthe show notes To the listeners.
When I asked her, dana, aboutwhat her intention was for
today's conversation, she saidit was all about providing value
to you, and you absolutelyhonored that.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
Thank you for being a greatguest today.
Thank you, john.
(34:06):
All right, my friends, as wewrap up here, here's the one
takeaway I want you to have frommy conversation with Jordana.
It's this you are, withoutquestion, a talented, highly
skilled, valuable individual.
If you are moving into amanagement or leadership role
within your organization, thisis your opportunity to pause.
(34:28):
Think about what your intentionis about being a leader within
that organization.
What is your mindset about howyou want to show up every day?
But if you are not caring aboutthe people you're serving in
that leadership role, you maywant to think of something else.
If there's one thing Jordanadrove home time and time again,
(34:49):
it was about the care that greatleaders have for people on
their team and helping to igniteand elevate their performance
and their value within theorganization, because you, as
the leader, are seeing them asvalued and recognized.
And remember that's alsosomething you can take to your
(35:12):
leadership as well and pushthose conversations as you're
managing up to as you build yourmid-career GPS.
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
(35:35):
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
(35:57):
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
It may seem like a badge of honor to have a
horrible manager, but come on,you and I both know that a
leader can make all thedifference as to whether you
stay in that organization or gowork somewhere else, and if
you're leading or aspiring tolead talent, how you lead makes
a ton of difference regardingyour team's effectiveness.
(00:22):
So please, don't be one ofthose horrible leaders.
However, I've often said thatit's been my quote unquote bad
managers who shaped how I've led, because I never wanted to do
that to any of my team members.
How you lead is a big part ofyour mid-career GPS, and today I
am joined by Jordana Cole, whoignites behavioral change that
(00:46):
doesn't just stick, it spreads.
In this episode, jordana and Idiscuss what makes great leaders
in 2025 and why they are sodesperately needed, how to
clearly define what it means tothrive in your leadership and
career, to create truetransformational change, how to
retain great employees and howto identify what's in your
(01:09):
control as you build yourmid-career GPS.
So let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
(01:33):
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
My guest today is Jordana Cole,and, as a recognized leadership
coach, consultant, workshopfacilitator and learning and
development strategist, jordanaempowers leaders to transform
behaviors that unlock teampotential and drive business
(01:56):
results.
Her background leading teams inL&D strategy, within nonprofits
, higher education, financialservices, e-commerce and tech
industries.
Jordana thrives in bridging thegap between HR and business
units, where she draws upon heradvanced education in the
(02:17):
psychology of well-being.
It is her diverse backgroundthat brings so much to this
conversation, because one of thethings Jordana excels at is
making magic when she is facedwith limited resources, so she
can help organizations buildscalable, sustainable approaches
(02:38):
from scratch.
Now, this is a conversationthat is relevant and applicable
to any leader at any level, butit is especially for you, as a
mid-career, mid-level leader whomight be looking to level up
their career and make a greaterimpact within your organization,
that I want you to payparticular attention to
(03:01):
Jordana's tips and informationwithin this episode.
So it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Jordana Cole.
Hey there, jordana.
Welcome to the show.
It's great to have you here.
Jordana Cole (03:15):
Thanks, john, I'm thrilled to be here.
John Neral (03:17):
Yeah, you and I connected at the end of last
year and I wanted you to come onthe podcast specifically today
to talk a little bit about yourleadership journey, but also
what leadership specificallylooks like for mid-career
professionals.
But before we get into all that, please share with us what was
your mid-career moment.
Jordana Cole (03:36):
Yeah.
So my mid-career momenthappened about a decade ago.
At the time I was leading anaccount management team, a
client services team, andfeeling a little burnt out on my
role and didn't reallyunderstand why.
And after some assessments,conversations and reflections I
(04:00):
realized that I loved that withthe team I managed that more and
more of my job was focused onfighting fires instead of
starting them within people, asa friend of mine told me later
on.
And I made the consciousdecision to completely move into
a different field and, whiletechnically taking a step back
from managing a team, it wasactually taking a step forward
(04:23):
in leadership.
So I moved from directmanagement of a client account
team to organizationalleadership, moving into
enterprise organizationallearning and development and
leadership development, whichI've done for over a decade with
different industries, differentsize companies and really
(04:43):
working with teams, leadersacross the entire enterprise of
a company and helping them growand bring out more potential in
themselves and others.
John Neral (04:55):
So for someone who is hearing this and they're
curious about what your clientinteraction, your day-to-day is
like, give us, us the30,000-foot overview in terms of
where your touchpoints areduring a given day.
Jordana Cole (05:09):
Every day is different.
Exactly, there's a little bitof that.
I think.
Some of the things that aresimilar to when I was managing
the client success team is thatI had stakeholders, I had
expectations, I had deliverablesand I had meetings.
What was different is thatoftentimes in this type of work,
(05:31):
you're a team of one or a supersmall team, so you are
literally putting things outthere that impact the entire
company, but you're doing it invery scrappy and limited ways.
So that often means buildingbuy-in, building champions,
piloting.
So I'm talking to differentleaders, understanding their
(05:51):
needs, I'm actually selling, butI'm selling ideas and I'm
selling ideas internally ratherthan actually selling products
and I'm testing and learning alot.
So one of the things that Ilearned a lot in this work is
that I might have an idea and agoal of what I'm headed for, and
instead of building somethingout beautifully and then rolling
(06:14):
it out and getting upset whenpeople aren't adopting it, I'm
better served by starting small,piloting it, getting feedback,
getting participation and buy-in, and then building on it so
that it gets to a point whereit's actually going to add value
, because I'm working witheverybody and everybody is so
different that I need to figureout ways that I can create
(06:35):
consistency and clarity, whilealso enabling tailoring
customization to differentpeople's unique needs.
John Neral (06:44):
Sure, and certainly we know the kind of work you do
is absolutely needed and for Imean, it goes without saying
right, because leadership issuch a mission and a calling.
But one of the things that wereally resonated on when we
first met and started talkingwas that there's this arc for
(07:07):
certain mid-level, mid-careerprofessionals, where they
demonstrate technical expertise,they're extremely proficient,
they are celebrated by theirorganizations and they are then
thus anointed to manage peopleor lead a team in that regard,
(07:29):
and to do so, in all honesty,before they are ready or
well-equipped.
Why do we continue to see thismodel being implemented and,
secondly, what's the right stepto change that?
Jordana Cole (07:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think the reason we see it
implemented comes from, honestly, the best of intentions.
That has not great executionand outcomes.
Somebody is so great at whatthey do that we assume, if we
put them in charge of a group ofpeople who do the same thing
that they're doing, that they'llbe able to translate that and
(08:09):
boom, they're going to make allthe people underneath them
better.
And I see that happen in thingslike sales, for instance, where
you have your fantasticsalesperson, their top
salesperson in the company.
Okay, just take what you'redoing and teach other people how
to do the same thing.
But there's a couple ofproblems with that.
One, what makes you a fantasticsalesperson is a different
(08:32):
skill set than what makes you agreat leader.
There's been some reallyfascinating research from Gallup
over the past few years, andthey have a book called it's the
Manager, which indicates thatonly about 10% of people have
the skill set, aptitude, mindsetneeded to be successful
managers.
And I guarantee you those arenot the 10% that we're promoting
(08:54):
, right, or we're promoting alot more than that.
This is both kind of inchallenge and in solution is
that when people are promotedbecause what they are doing is
working, they assume that thatsame method will work for
everybody.
And you know, we each come withour own different strengths,
(09:15):
our own different skill sets,our own different motivators,
our own different experiencesand perspectives.
And what works for you, john,isn't necessarily what's going
to work for me.
So if I try and direct you todo X, y and Z just like how I
did it, you're not going to seethe outcomes that I did, because
(09:36):
we're not the same person andwe're both going to be
frustrated by it in the interim.
So I think there's a couplethings in here from a solution
standpoint.
One is really taking stock ofwhat are the true skills that
make somebody a great leader,and not just skills.
What are the mindsets, what arethe interests, what are the
(09:57):
competencies?
I think there are a lot oforganizations out there that
might have team competencies orindividual contributor
competencies, but they haven'tthought about that at the
leadership competencies orindividual contributor
competencies, but they haven'tthought about that at the
leadership level.
Or what they have is really,really vague and we often focus
on who's not doing it well andtrying to fix it, instead of
(10:18):
taking a step back and go.
Who are some of the bestleaders that we have in our
organization and by best leaders.
They're people who get resultsnot just in outcomes from the
business that is an importantcomponent of it.
They're people who also havehigh engagement, high retention,
high innovation, highcollaboration from their team.
It's the secret sauce thatmakes those outcomes happen, and
(10:39):
let's figure out what theyuniquely bring to the table and
use that to really identifythose skills, those competencies
, those mindsets.
And when we're assessing peoplefrom promotability and
particularly towards management,let's look at that and have
conversations around thoseparticular things and then let's
(11:00):
educate and train people andupskill them in those particular
things.
So I mean, it does requireinvestment of time and it does
require investment of resources.
So I think that's one piece.
I think the second piece isactually having conversations
about why they want to bemanagers and making sure that
they understand the trueresponsibility and work of
management before they actuallygo into management, rather than
(11:24):
just going, oh, I want a titleor yeah, you asked me if I
wanted to do this, so I feellike I had to say yes, I think
that's something that we can dobetter at.
And I think the third piece isrecognizing that those that we
manage are not like ourselves,and the best thing that we can
do when we take on leadershiproles is seek to understand our
people first, have conversationsabout what motivates them.
(11:47):
Have conversations about whatdemotivates them.
What are skills that might beuntapped, that they'd like to
use more of?
What's the best and worst wayto give them feedback?
What enables them to be attheir best?
What are some things that peoplemight do inadvertently that
brings out the worst in them?
It's kind of like doing thework upfront to get the cheat
(12:08):
sheet that's going to pay off inthe long run to help you be
successful.
But the problem is so oftenwhen we move somebody into
leadership, we tell them thatthey have to deliver on the
outcome so quickly that we don'tgive them the time and the
space to have the conversationsthat's going to bring out the
real understanding and gold thatwill enable those outcomes to
(12:30):
happen.
So I think it's a mindset shiftwith the people.
I think it's a change from thesystem standpoint in the
organization and a change inwhere we invest time and
resources, knowing that it'sgoing to produce outcomes down
the line.
John Neral (12:44):
Hey there, let me jump in really quick and ask you
something.
When was the last time you tooka step back and really thought
about where your career isheaded?
If you're feeling stuck,uncertain or ready for the next
big move, I've got something tohelp you.
My new journal, 30Self-Coaching Questions for
Mid-Career Professionals, isdesigned to help you gain
(13:07):
clarity, set goals and takeaction all on your own terms,
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This journal is your personalGPS to navigating the next phase
of your career with moreconfidence and greater clarity.
Next phase of your career withmore confidence and greater
clarity.
This journal is filled withsome of the same questions I ask
(13:28):
my coaching clients, and youcan grab a copy of it right now.
Head on over to Amazon andsearch either for my name or 30
self-coaching questions formid-career professionals, or you
can check the show notes forthe link.
It is time to start buildingyour mid-career GPS, and now it
is time for us.
The show notes for the link.
It is time to start buildingyour mid-career GPS, and now it
is time for us to get back tothe episode Jordana.
(13:52):
What you have just described is,especially in terms of the
skills, the mindset and thecompetencies, about recognizing
the mindset and the competencies, about recognizing where the
individual who is trulysuccessful in that management or
leadership role, where they getto thrive and I know that's a
(14:13):
huge part of your work.
The word thrive is one thatI've seen over the last like six
to eight months or so, when Ipeople will reach out on
LinkedIn and they'll they'llreach out and they'll say, oh, I
want a job where I can thrive,or I want to be in an
organization that lets theirpeople thrive, and I'll get
(14:34):
really curious with them to belike what does that exactly mean
?
Because it sounds great but inpracticality, we've got to
really kind of drill down tothat concrete piece about what
it means to really thrive Inyour work and in your experience
.
When you see an organizationand its leaders thrive, what
(14:55):
does that exactly look like?
Jordana Cole (14:58):
What a great question, john.
So I'll say a couple of thingsabout that.
Like, so I have.
I have a master's degree in thescience of well-being, which is
the science of thriving, so Icould go super academic.
They're at their best every dayand at their best in a way
(15:27):
where they are adding value andand they are feeling valued,
which is when we think about theword mattering.
That's like the best synthesisof definition, and there's a
researcher by the name of IsaacPilatensky.
That's his definition.
I love it.
You know, we thrive when we feellike we are adding value beyond
(15:47):
ourselves and where we arefeeling valued, we're recognized
in a way that's authentic to us, where we're contributing and
we're also growing.
So you know, we're not justkind of stagnant and baseline,
but we actually feel like we'regrowing and we're continuing to
(16:07):
grow and add value day in andday out, and it's being done so
in a way that's not at the costof other things that are
important to us, in a way that'snot at the cost of other things
that are important to us.
So I feel like, true, thrivingis it's this balance, where
you're adding value to theorganization and you're feeling
valued as a human being, whereyou can add that value without
(16:28):
also sacrificing the otherthings that are important to you
in your life, and that's a very, very hard balance to find,
especially in today's day andage, and I think that the
question that you just broughtup is an important one.
That word means differentthings to different people, so
that's my very generaldefinition.
However, it takes five minutesto ask somebody what does
(16:54):
thriving mean to you?
And I don't know that.
There are many organizationsout there, many leaders out
there, that are actually havingthat conversation.
You're saying that you want tobe in an organization that
enables you to thrive.
What would that look like foryou?
What would that mean for you?
What would be different for youif that happened?
It's a lot easy to action onthose things when you're hearing
the specifics from somebodythan when you're trying to kind
(17:17):
of crystal ball what it isthey're talking about.
John Neral (17:20):
It's such a great point, because that little pause
to ask people to clarify whatthey mean by that is what really
unlocks the ability to buildthat relationship, because now
we have that information aboutokay, this is what thriving
looks like for you.
Here's what it looks like here.
(17:41):
Let's see where it aligns,let's see where we need to close
a gap.
But without having thatconversation, that magic never
happens.
Yes, yeah when you're lookingahead here at 2025 and we're
seeing the ripple effects ofwhat's happened in 2024 in terms
(18:03):
of how it's impacting what workis going to look like and
whether or not people are makingmoves, how they are making
moves, what it may mean to be alittle more organizationally
loyal when people haven't alwaysbeen in the past.
Jordana Cole (18:20):
From a leadership lens Jordana what are the things
(18:50):
you see that are most good?
Organizations will try and makechanges based on what it is
that they're learning.
But the reason somebody left isnot the reason somebody decided
to look in the first place.
There's something that happenswhere, you know, suddenly an
individual goes from you know,being satisfied in their job and
(19:12):
their life, et cetera, and thensomething shifts and they start
to open to opportunitiesoutside of the organization.
So the reasons that they'resaying they're leaving might not
actually be the real thing thatyou should be solutioning for.
They're not the root and, youknow, oftentimes we don't get
the real answers right.
People are trying to burnbridges.
(19:34):
I think we'd be much moreeffective and I know that the
concept of stay interviews hasbeen around for a long time.
But going back to, how are youmaking your people feel valued
when they are there, not onlywhen they are leaving?
One of the best ways that youcan do that is having regular
conversations with the peoplethat you do value, not waiting
(19:57):
until they're at risk to like.
Beg them to stay because youneed them.
Letting them know upfront thatthey are valued.
Asking them, you know what.
What inspires them to bringtheir best every day asking them
.
You know what they need tocontinue to be at their best.
You know what are some thingsthat get in their way of being
(20:18):
able to be at their best.
So you don't have to ask it inthe lens of like, what will take
you to keep you to stay?
I think there's different waysto ask the question and get to
the heart of that.
And asking questions like thatand having regular conversations
do two things.
One, it gives you insight onyou know where there might be
things that you're notfulfilling that person that you
(20:39):
care about and what they need.
It also, though kind of underthe surface, shows that person
that they are valued.
You know, too often our time isstretched as leaders and we
wind up spending the majority ofour time with people who are
underperforming or people whoare, you know, squeaky wheel,
(20:59):
and that means that we tend totake the people that are really
great for granted because youknow they're not causing
problems, they're doing greatthings, and then next thing we
know that person is gone.
So spending that timeproactively to show them that
they matter and have thoseconversations really sets a tone
from a cultural and leadershipstandpoint.
(21:20):
It could also indirectlyinfluence who's talking to you.
Because if people see thatyou're spending more of your
time with your high performers,with their highly valued people,
who you want to keep, andyou're spending less time with
the people who are causingproblems, you might
subconsciously change the tonewith the people who are causing
problems.
You might subconsciously changethe tone of the people who are
causing problems.
So I think that the ongoingconversation is one of them.
(21:43):
I think the other piece is beinga strong leader for them.
You know there's enoughresearch out there that
indicates that people leavemanagers, they don't leave
companies, and I think one ofthe reasons that companies wind
up losing really great people isbecause either that person
doesn't have a strong leader orthere's been a leadership change
(22:05):
where that individual had areally great relationship with
their manager and that personhas either left or they've
brought in somebody else to leadthe team and that new person
who comes in isn't doing, youknow, their due diligence to
build that relationship or isn'tmodeling the same leadership
behaviors that person is used to.
So you know, even asking thatindividual like, what does great
(22:27):
leadership look like for them?
What do they need to feelsupported?
I think one of the challengesthat organizations have is they
shy away from these questionsbecause they're afraid it's
going to say, well, I want moremoney and they can't do that,
and that's not the reason to shyaway.
A couple things with that One.
(22:48):
If you really want loyalty, Ithink we need to think about how
we're incentivizing loyalty.
You know, we can't expectpeople to give more
discretionary effort to givemore loyalty if we're in a
culture where we're barelygiving, you know, a cost of
living increase or people arescared about their jobs.
That's not a culture thatbreeds a sense of loyalty.
(23:10):
So that's a piece of it, andyou know.
Number two is, I think thatthere's ways to both reframe the
conversation and also be honestin a way that actually builds
trust and loyalty rather thaneroding it.
So if you say to an individual,if they say, look, what's
(23:31):
important to me is money, youcan say to them I wish we were
in a position where I could giveyou, you know, an extra $10,000
a year If we had a budget forit.
If I was in a position where Icould do that, I would do that
instantaneously.
We're not.
I understand that that's reallyimportant to you.
What are some other things thatI could do that would make you
(23:55):
feel valued, and asking that acouple of times until you get to
that place.
I also think the nature of howyou ask the question is
important.
So a lot of people I coach knowone of my favorite things to ask
is what would make this 5%better?
And I specifically use thatterminology because I think too
often in engagement surveys weask like how do you like to be
recognized?
I specifically use thatterminology because I think too
(24:15):
often in engagement surveys weask like how do you like to be
recognized?
What feedback do you have forme?
What would make everythingbetter for you?
And then people ask for thingswe can't deliver on.
We get frustrated, they getfrustrated.
It creates this vicious cycle.
But when you ask something likeyou know what would make the
next year 5% better for you orwhat would make the next week 5%
(24:38):
better for you, because I trulycare about you.
I care about you beingsuccessful.
You add so much value.
Nine out of 10 times thatperson is going to respond with
something that you can actuallyact on.
That builds trust becauseyou're able to follow through on
(24:59):
the commitment and the ask thatthey had and you're also able
to display loyalty andcommitment in ways that don't
require grandiose things.
John Neral (25:05):
I like how you phrased all that, because what
you've done is you've given thepeople who are listening,
especially who have directreports or they're in positions
to have these conversations,some very tactical things that
they can offer.
That, admittedly, especiallyright now, what we see in this
(25:26):
economy, in this market, wheremoney may not be a bargaining
chip, that, what else might theybe able to leverage?
Yes, that, what else might theybe able to leverage?
Yes.
So we're gonna start wrappingup in a moment, but I would be
remissed if we didn't take a fewmoments to talk a little bit
about layoffs and hiring freezes, given what's happened last
(25:49):
month.
So for the listeners, we'rerecording this on January 22nd,
right after there was a bigannouncement of a federal hiring
freeze, and those can be reallydifficult conversations for
managers to have, especiallywhen teams are over-allocated,
they're overwhelmed, they mightbe experiencing some burnout.
(26:12):
What can you share with thelisteners today, jordana, about
being in that kind of role wherethey have to show up and
deliver some difficultinformation, but also
understanding that this may be atemporary and most likely is a
temporary circumstance to helpthem see through to the other
side?
Jordana Cole (26:33):
Yeah, yeah, first off, sorry, you're going through
that.
I think it's the hardest thingthat anybody has to do as a
leader, and I've been through itmyself and I've told leaders
who've been through it some forthe first time, some multiple
times that if it ever getseasier for you, that's probably
a good signal that it's time tohang up the leadership, the
(26:57):
leadership hat, the leadershipcoat I don't know what it is and
the fact that it's not easy foryou shows that you care about
the people who work for you.
I'd say there are a lot ofthings in that situation that
are outside of your control.
So how do you orient to what'sin your control?
(27:18):
And in that moment, what is inyour control is the words you
use, the actions that youdisplay.
Before you go into thoseconversations, ask yourself you
know what is?
What is the mindset that youneed to be in?
What?
What is the mindset that youneed to be in?
What are you trying to createfor an environment in this
(27:40):
conversation?
An ideal outcome isn't possiblein situations like that, so
let's recalibrate goals, andthat's also something to think
about for yourself in times likethis.
Stop comparing yourself to yourideal On an everyday basis.
You might have a scale of a oneto five, where five is your
best and one is your worst.
In days like that, your bestmight be a two and a half Sure,
(28:03):
and that's okay.
So let's recalibrate what goodlooks like in that, and so let's
say your mindset.
And, john, I'm going to kudosyou here.
Before we started thisconversation, you asked me what
my intention was for thisconversation.
I think that's an importantthing for leaders to bring in to
conversations like this.
(28:24):
What is my intention for theconversation with the person?
What is my conversation?
What is my intention for theconversation with the team?
What is my intention for beingwith myself?
And that intention might justbe creating a space where that
person feels heard, recognizingthat I might not be able to do
anything about it, where I feelfor them, but I just want them
(28:46):
to create a safe space wherethey can let out everything that
they're feelingnon-judgmentally, and let them
be heard.
Okay, what do I need to do froma lens of actions?
What do I need to do from alens of words to be able to
honor that intention?
That's in my control.
I can control creating a space.
I can't control whether or notthat person has a job.
(29:08):
I can't control what the futureis going to bring, but what I
can control is creating a spacewhere they feel heard.
John Neral (29:14):
I thank you for that and that's something which I'm
sure you and I have bothexperienced, where people kind
of overlook that and it's soimportant to offer that.
That is absolutely within yourtoolkit to hold that space to
make people feel heard andvalidated and recognized, and to
(29:37):
see what comes after that.
But that never happens unlessyou hold that space.
So I'm really glad you talkedabout that and thank you for
sharing that with everybody.
You're welcome, All right.
So here's the question wealways kind of wrap up with,
which is what advice would yougive the listeners today to help
them build their mid-career GPSto whatever is next for them in
(29:58):
their career?
Jordana Cole (29:59):
Yeah.
So I think my advice to themwould be go towards something
because you're excited for it,versus running away from
something that you don't like.
Everything is scary, and, youknow, every time I've made a
(30:20):
change in my career, I've beennervous as heck Right and like I
didn't know what was going towork out.
I was terrified, but I was alsoexcited.
I joke, I have this phrase I'mnervous-sided, and it's because
anxiousness and excitement arekind of two sides of the same
coin.
I see too many times people notmaking a move because they're
(30:43):
scared and they allow that fearto overtake them, and that's not
to say there are certain timesin our lives where, or certain
situations where, we can't makechanges because there are
important things that we needfoundationally.
I 100% respect that, and I'vebeen there myself.
If you have that, though, andyou're just afraid and playing
kind of the what ifs, you'regoing to wind up then having to
(31:07):
make a change later on, eitherbecause it's one that's forced
upon you or it's one that youjust have no other options, and
then you're going to be doing itout of fear.
On the other side of things,because you're leaving something
you hate or, under last resort,because you're leaving
something you hate or, underlast resort, jump into the
(31:27):
nervous-sided.
Even if it's in a little bit ofsmall ways, it's a lot better to
make a movement because you'relooking towards something and
you're aiming for something,rather than you're running away
from something, and then thelast thing that I would say is
fewer and fewer people arewanting to go into leadership
right now, and I think it'sbecome clearer what a
responsibility leadership is.
Certainly everything that'shappened since COVID and just a
(31:52):
lot of what's going on in theworld and the weight that people
are carrying with them intowork.
We need great leaders now morethan ever before, and while it
might mean fewer people areinterested in becoming leaders,
I do think if you enjoy bringingout the best in people, if you
(32:12):
enjoy creating a space wherepeople can grow and succeed and
you can set right expectationsfor them, if the idea of that
work feels hard and exciting andyou're nervous-sided about it,
we need you.
So please, no matter whatimposter syndrome you've got, go
for it, because we need leaderslike you.
John Neral (32:33):
We certainly do Absolutely Well, jordana.
This has been a wonderfulconversation.
I thank you.
If the listeners want to learnmore about you, connect with you
, find what's going on in yourworld, I'm going to turn the mic
over to you.
Share all the good things wherepeople can connect.
Jordana Cole (32:48):
Thanks, john.
Yeah, so a couple of greatplaces to connect with me.
You can check out my website,ignitedbyjordanacom.
You can connect to set up acall with me.
You can email me from there.
I've got a whole bunch ofdifferent articles and resources
you can check out on there aswell.
I'm super, super active onLinkedIn.
(33:10):
I always love connecting withpeople over LinkedIn, so please
connect with me, drop me amessage, let me know that you
listened to this episode andwould love to have those
connections too, because I amactually working on a book that
I hope will be out by the end ofthis year helping people ignite
their leadership and really setthe tone for their day, and
bite-size actionable pieces toignite better performance,
(33:33):
engagement and potential intheir people and in themselves.
So if you enjoyed what youheard today, I hope that you'll
follow me, connect with me andstay tuned for that book.
John Neral (33:45):
Well, congrats on the book, and I will make sure
all of that information is inthe show notes To the listeners.
When I asked her, dana, aboutwhat her intention was for
today's conversation, she saidit was all about providing value
to you, and you absolutelyhonored that.
Thank you so much for thisconversation.
Thank you for being a greatguest today.
Thank you, john.
(34:06):
All right, my friends, as wewrap up here, here's the one
takeaway I want you to have frommy conversation with Jordana.
It's this you are, withoutquestion, a talented, highly
skilled, valuable individual.
If you are moving into amanagement or leadership role
within your organization, thisis your opportunity to pause.
(34:28):
Think about what your intentionis about being a leader within
that organization.
What is your mindset about howyou want to show up every day?
But if you are not caring aboutthe people you're serving in
that leadership role, you maywant to think of something else.
If there's one thing Jordanadrove home time and time again,
(34:49):
it was about the care that greatleaders have for people on
their team and helping to igniteand elevate their performance
and their value within theorganization, because you, as
the leader, are seeing them asvalued and recognized.
And remember that's alsosomething you can take to your
(35:12):
leadership as well and pushthose conversations as you're
managing up to as you build yourmid-career GPS.
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
(35:35):
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
(35:57):
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Nerrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
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