March 18, 2025 • 30 mins
In this insightful episode, Melissa Mawai shares her inspiring journey from corporate project management to becoming a published children's author and illustrator. After the passing of her father and the global pandemic, Melissa found herself at a crossroads—one that led her to pursue her true passion for storytelling. Now, with five published books under her belt with major publishers like National Geographic Kids and DK, Melissa reflects on the challenges, lessons, and triumphs of her creative career pivot.
One of the biggest hurdles she faced? Self-promotion. If you've ever struggled with marketing yourself, you'll appreciate Melissa’s honest take on overcoming the “ick” factor and finding an authentic way to share your work. As a neurodiverse professional, she has also dedicated her work to helping neurodiverse children navigate the world through engaging stories.
From navigating the entrepreneurial path to embracing creativity in every professional interaction, Melissa offers invaluable wisdom for anyone looking to align their career with their passions. Plus, she gives us a sneak peek into her upcoming podcast, Kid Lit Deconstruction Zone!
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- How Melissa used the COVID-19 pandemic as a turning point in her career
- The impact of personal loss on career clarity and purpose
- Overcoming the discomfort of self-promotion and marketing yourself authentically
- The importance of creating stories that support neurodiverse children
- How coaching helped her refine her career path and build confidence
- The journey to launching her new podcast, Kid Lit Deconstruction Zone
- How to infuse creativity into networking and professional relationships
- Melissa’s future goals, including more school visits and speaking engagements
Resources & Links: Connect with Melissa and explore her work:
- Website: melissamawai.com
- Follow her on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/mmwai/ – she promises to say hello back!
If you’re looking for inspiration to bring more creativity and authenticity into your career and learn how coaching can help you, like it helped Melissa, tune in now.
Thank you for listening to The Mid-Career GPS Podcast.
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Visit https://johnneral.com/resources for free and low-ticket resources, including how to join The Mid-Career GPS Membership Community.
Visit https://johnneral.com to join The Mid-Career GPS Newsletter, a free, twice-weekly career and leadership resource for mid-career professionals.
Connect with John on LinkedIn here.
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Subscribe to John's YouTube Channel here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
Hey there, I hope you had lots of good luck for St
Patrick's Day and are ready totackle the week.
So let me ask you do youbelieve there is luck in your
job search?
Do you believe there issomething about being in the
right place at the right time,or do you believe it is all
about how you show up and putyourself out there to make and
(00:21):
create those opportunities thatelevate your career out there to
make and create thoseopportunities that elevate your
career.
Remember how we show up matters, and today's guest is a
wonderful example of that.
In a few moments, you will meetone of my clients, melissa
Mawai.
She'll share her success storyabout how she gained the career
(00:43):
clarity she needed to make abold move in her career, how she
got the ick out of networkingand how she found a way to do it
more authentically that alignedwith exactly what she needed.
She's got a great story, solet's get started.
(01:06):
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
Having a client come on andshare their wins with you is
very special to me.
Not all of my clients want toshare their stories and I
(01:28):
completely respect that.
Melissa and I have known eachother for years.
We worked together at aprevious organization and, while
we didn't work directly witheach other, we certainly
traveled in similar circles atwork certainly traveled in
similar circles at work, so youcan imagine how honored I was
when she reached out to me andwanted to learn more about how I
(01:49):
could help her as her coach.
Melissa H Mwai is a children'sauthor, illustrator and story
coach.
She is the author of fivenonfiction books, including I
Can Make a Friend, published byPawprints in 2025, a Puerto
Rican Childhood, published by DKin 2024, and Stacey Abrams,
(02:12):
published by National Geo Kidsin 2022.
As a neurodiverse Afro-Latina,melissa is thrilled that her
books help ethnically andneurodiverse kids learn more
deeply about the world aroundthem, and for fun, she rewatches
movies like the Princess Brideand Hamilton with her family.
(02:33):
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to Melissa Mwai.
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Hey there, melissa.
Welcome to the podcast.
It's great to have you heretoday.
Melissa Mwai (02:46):
Thanks for having me, John.
I'm excited to be here.
John Neral (02:49):
Well, you and I have had an opportunity to do some
work together.
We're going to talk abouteverything that you've been
accomplishing and your story,but, just to get us started,
something happened for you atmid-career that was very
impactful and absolutely shiftedyour career trajectory.
(03:11):
Would you please share thatwith us?
Melissa Mwai (03:13):
Sure thing.
So, like a lot of us, I feellike COVID was a turning point.
So before that I was doing aproject management work and
education, and when my kidsstarted homeschooling, I used
that opportunity to shift mycareer to focus more on the
(03:35):
writing and illustration workthat I do for kids, and it
worked out really, really well.
I'm excited to have made thatchange.
John Neral (03:45):
When we were going through the pandemic and trying
to figure out how to live andwork in the midst of COVID.
Looking back on it all saywe're about five years.
We're five years, basically,after the pandemic started.
What would you say is thebiggest lesson you've learned
from that whole time in yourlife?
What would you say is thebiggest lesson you've learned?
Melissa Mwai (04:04):
from that whole time in your life.
It might sound a little cliche,but it really is.
We really don't know how muchtime we have.
My first book project happenedin 2021, and it was right after
my dad had passed away and Iknew that if he was still around
(04:27):
he would have wanted me to jumpon that opportunity and I did,
and I'm so glad I did.
John Neral (04:31):
Yeah Well, books change lives, right, and books
are those things that we get tohave that quiet space with.
I'm somebody who reads books ona device, because to me it's a
little easier in that regard.
I just kind of gravitate towardthat.
When you read books, are youholding that book in your hand
(04:53):
or are you?
On a device or both.
Melissa Mwai (04:56):
I do a little bit of both.
I really, really loveaudiobooks.
I think that helps a lot.
It's being told a story andeven as an adult, to have that
moment is really powerful.
Yeah.
John Neral (05:12):
The number of books that you've had a chance to
author and work on isundoubtedly impressive, but
there's one book I want to talkto you about.
So, back in 2022, you publisheda book or worked on a book with
National Geo Kids about StaceyAbrams.
What was it about that bookproject that fascinated you so
(05:37):
much?
Melissa Mwai (05:39):
Well, stacey is a public figure and, as I learned
more about her story, she reallyhonestly believes in the power
of change and using your voice,so that was important to me as
an emerging author.
I didn't realize how how thathelped me get through some of my
(06:03):
own personal grief, how thathelped me get through some of my
own personal grief, and I trulydo believe that that's an
ongoing issue, like we do needto continue to encourage people
to vote and use their voices.
John Neral (06:31):
And that's part of my you get to do now,
specifically as an author,illustrator and story coach.
Can you break down for uswhat's that?
One skill, or maybe two skills,not to put you too much on the
spot, right, but like those oneor two skills that you feel have
(06:51):
just served you well throughoutyour entire career.
Melissa Mwai (06:55):
Sure, I think for me it's being authentic in what
you say.
So as a writer and illustrator,you do have to put yourself out
there and it's maybe small,subtle ways, but readers pick up
on that.
And when I'm communicating withother storytellers, I also have
(07:21):
to be honest about you knowwhere they are in the process.
I also have to be honest aboutyou know where they are in the
process, but encourage them, andthat's just who I am and I
think that helps other peoplegrow in their storytelling.
John Neral (07:35):
We talk so much on this podcast about being able to
tell your own story, and totell your story from a place of
value and service that getspeople interested in who you are
and what you do, as opposed tofinding you interesting.
Let's face it we're allinteresting people, but when
you're interested in somebody,there's a different level of
(07:57):
relationship.
If you could offer any adviceto people who are listening
today, especially who arestruggling to find their voice
or tell their story in a way toget people interested, what
would you offer them today?
Melissa Mwai (08:17):
I would say you need to do some reflection, find
your passion and figure out howto take that passion and put it
into the work you do.
You know it may not be a one toone correlation.
So when I was doing a day job,I had the privilege of working
on storyboards and visual mediastoryboards and visual media and
(08:40):
that part I really, reallyloved and you could see that.
So if you don't have theopportunity to do everything you
need or everything you want,find those aspects in the work
that you are doing and pull thatpassion in.
John Neral (08:57):
So I shared a little bit about this in the
introduction, but you and I'veknown each other for a while.
We had an opportunity to worktogether at an organization, and
then one day I get this messageand you want to talk and you
want to learn a little bit moreabout coaching and specifically
(09:18):
how I could help you as yourcoach.
And specifically how I couldhelp you as your coach, can you
take us back to that moment interms of where you were at in
your career and entrepreneurialjourney and why seeking a coach
was important for you at thatmoment?
Melissa Mwai (09:35):
Totally so.
At that point I had a couple ofbooks coming out and I didn't
really know what to do next.
You know I'm in the freelanceworld and hadn't really gone
back into that, being in a jobfor a decade.
(09:55):
The world changes, right.
How do you apply for jobs?
So that's where you know,knowing you and knowing the way
you connect with people made thedifference for me to want to
reach out and just find out howyou could help me grow in my own
(10:18):
career, my business.
John Neral (10:21):
Well, thank you for that.
I appreciate that and thatwarms my heart to hear that
because, as you know, throughour working relationship, that
connection's really important,right?
I mean, coaching is one ofthose things where it can be
very intense and it can be a lotof hard work.
In that regard, had you workedwith a coach before we started
(10:44):
working together, or had youbeen exploring that?
Melissa Mwai (10:47):
I did like a life coach, but I felt like it wasn't
really going anywhere to behonest, but I needed something
with a more specific plan, or Ishould say someone with a more
specific plan.
John Neral (10:59):
Okay, so having that structure in terms of the
clarity in terms of where youwanted to go in your career,
specifically with your businesslet's talk about that for a
minute.
So what would you say were someof the benefits you got from
our coaching in terms of havingthat career clarity that made
(11:21):
you move forward?
Melissa Mwai (11:23):
Sure.
So one thing we talked about alot was how you present yourself
to the people you want to help,and for me that really
resonated because I always feltlike a little bit ick when he,
when the thought of marketing.
You know like no.
(11:54):
So you gave me the language tofigure out how I could present
myself in a way that align withmy values.
Like I didn't even reallyunderstand that that was a thing
that was blocking me fromconnecting with potential people
that I could work with.
John Neral (12:07):
So this is why I adore you, because you're so
genuine in that regard, becausedescribing that as ick is
perfect, because so many peoplestruggle with that notion of how
can I authentically presentmyself in a way that I feel
comfortable doing and not feellike I'm going to turn people
(12:28):
off, because it can feel verysalesy sometimes and that's one
of the things we worked ontrying to avoid.
So, for everybody who'slistening and I'm sure they're
curious in terms of what wouldthat and we call it a unique
professional value statement.
But when you think about whoyou help and what you help
(12:49):
people do, what would you tellthem today?
Melissa Mwai (12:54):
I would say I'm an author, illustrator, who helps
neurodiverse kids learn moreabout the world around them.
John Neral (13:02):
Hey, there is your LinkedIn profile working for you
24-7?
.
Who helps neurodiverse kidslearn more about the world
around them?
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.
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(13:25):
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(13:47):
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Forward slash courses.
(14:08):
Now let's dive back into theepisode.
So let's dig a little moredeeply into that.
So, for people who may notfully know who a neurodiverse
kid is, who, are they?
Melissa Mwai (14:24):
So?
Neurodiversity is basically howyour brain works and there are
brains that work the way youwould expect them to and there
are brains that work a littledifferently.
So you might have sensoryissues, you might get
hyperfixated on something,issues you might get hyper
(14:46):
fixated on something, or, youknow, you might know someone who
is autistic or ADHD, likemyself.
So it just presents a littlebit of a challenge in excuse me,
presents a challenge in how youmight move around, move about
in the world or completedeadlines or just even
communicate with others and feellike you're doing that in an
authentic way.
John Neral (15:06):
Nice.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah, absolutely, and there's aneed for that.
We know that.
So, in our work, as we werecoaching around what was going
to be next for you and pursuingthis freelance avenue, Talk to
us a little bit about where yourcareer and your work in
(15:28):
business are today.
Melissa Mwai (15:30):
Yeah, so some of the new projects I've taken on
was I, like, rebranded mywebsite and and it went from the
ground up in the language.
Um, I've put myself out theremore actively for visiting
schools.
Um, another big change youencouraged me was, you know,
(15:51):
just to connect with people on,you know, video or podcasts, and
that's part of what I'm doingnow, which I would have not ever
have done.
So I'm really really excited toshare that, because it's a way
to share my voice and my storyin a, I feel like, more active
(16:15):
and proactive role.
John Neral (16:17):
Yeah, Pursuing the freelance or entrepreneurial
route is never easy.
We know it, we're living it andwe're navigating through it and
all those kind of things.
But it can certainly be veryrewarding and fulfilling,
especially when you've worked inthat traditional nine to five
type Monday through Friday job.
(16:39):
In the course of our coachingand your journey, what was the
deciding factor for you topursue the entrepreneurial route
, as opposed to thatquote-unquote traditional Monday
to Friday, nine to five job andmaybe have this on the side?
Melissa Mwai (17:03):
I think it was part of just a series of
conversations we've workedthrough, when we did the
professional value statement andkind of worked through the
organizations that might be agood fit for me.
That was really helpful.
So I still keep that in mindwhen I reach out to potential
clients and I'm open to doingfreelance work with a more
(17:27):
traditional company, but maybenot like full-time, maybe
contract, and it was just thingsI hadn't really considered so
that I can have more of abalance between my personal
business plus maybe some moresteady income from you know, a
nine to five for a short amountof time.
John Neral (17:44):
Yeah, and you brought me back for a moment
because I remember thosecoaching conversations,
specifically around my 4Fframework, where we talked about
the fit, the function, thefinance, the forward, and that
really helped you with thatclarity to be like, okay, this
is the path I want to pursue,this is where I want to invest
(18:04):
my time, my effort, my energy.
So let's play this little gamehere for a moment, okay, okay,
I'm laughing Monerous.
Melissa Mwai (18:16):
Unscripted 88.
Okay.
John Neral (18:19):
So full disclosure for everybody.
So I have all my guests fillout a form and there's some
questions to get them to kind ofthink.
But if you've been listeningfor a while, you know that
sometimes the conversations takea different path, because it's
an interesting part to all thisand I record on video but I
don't repurpose it.
And Melissa, your face was kindof like oh come on, john, don't
do this to me.
(18:39):
I promise I got you.
I got you on this, okay, allright, all right.
So for any mid-careerprofessional, when we talk about
forward, we talk about thosenext two steps, right?
So there's the job you're goinginto, then there's the next two
steps after it.
If we were to look into thefuture, and we were to look five
(19:04):
to seven years down the road,where do you see your career at
specifically, from defining yourimpact or reach to help the
people you do every day.
Melissa Mwai (19:23):
So I'll take that at two angles.
For the kids that I write for,I would love to offer more free
(19:52):
school visits and just connectwith them, because that's been a
really, really rewarding partof being an author, illustrator.
I had a teacher that was likehey, you know, it was so great
that you read your book A PuertoRican Childhood to my kids,
because you know, I have a kidwho's also Puerto Rican and they
really connected with it.
And when I was a kid I didn'thave that, you know, and when I
was a kid I didn't have that,you know.
So to be that person wow, thatlike blew me away.
So I would love to continue todo that and travel around you
(20:16):
know the US and do that.
That'd be a big goal.
Speak at conferences foremerging writers and
illustrators more regularly Imean there are opportunities now
(20:36):
but that's a whole different,that's a down the road, like a
different investment.
But I would love to do that andengage more with people who
just want to be more creativeand go into the children's
literature space.
John Neral (20:46):
Yeah, Dream big Absolutely.
You got to dream big Absolutely.
Is there anything?
Is there anything else you seeyourself doing?
Melissa Mwai (20:56):
Um, not sure.
I mean I would like to you knowactually.
No, I'll take that back.
So I'm doing this new podcastthat I'm launching in March and
I would love for that to blow up.
I'm doing it with two otherco-hosts and we're digging into
the craft of writing children'sliterature, and I have a heart
(21:20):
for teaching, so I would love todo that too.
I mean, the thing with being anentrepreneur is you have to
wear a lot of hats and figureout where your skills fit, and,
john, you definitely helped memap that out.
So I appreciate that, because Ican tell you, when I started, I
didn't quite view myself theway I view myself now.
John Neral (21:40):
So yeah, yeah.
No, that was such a powerfulpart of our work together to
kind of see your evolution inthat regard to really step in
this space.
The name of your podcast againis Kid Lit.
Melissa Mwai (21:52):
Deconstruction Zone Podcast and it's launching
in March 31st, nice All right.
John Neral (21:57):
So this is going to come out just before your
podcast launches.
I'm excited for you and yourco-hosts to get this out there
because, as we talked and lookedat it and everything, it's got
a definite niche that's going toserve a lot of people.
So good luck with all that.
Melissa Mwai (22:15):
Well, thank you.
John Neral (22:16):
Yeah.
So, melissa, we've talked a lotabout your journey today and
what that all has meant andeverything.
The idea behind building amid-career GPS is to help you
prepare position and promote whoyou are and what you do so you
can show up to find a job youlove or love the job you have.
(22:37):
What advice would you givesomeone to help them build their
mid-career GPS today?
Melissa Mwai (22:44):
I would say be as creative as possible about your
career, whether you're juststarting or you've been in the
business for a long time.
By bringing that creativitywhether it's in your
communication with people orwhether you're presenting that
(23:13):
helps you stand out and alsohelps you figure out what you
love to do.
John Neral (23:16):
Stay with me for this for a moment, because I
love how you phrase that.
And when we think about beingcreative in this job market for
people who are looking for thatjob with an employer, or even if
they're considering going outon their own, offering people to
(23:37):
be as creative as possible issuch a wonderful tip.
How did you unlock thatcreative part of you even more
to really step into where youare now?
Melissa Mwai (23:54):
So I'll just say, before I moved into this more
creative space, I kind of youknow there's a place for doing
what you're told, especially asyou're getting to know a company
and organization.
But you know, offeringsolutions, connecting with
(24:14):
coworkers in ways that mightsurprise them, Like, hey, you
know, I remember dropping intoyour office and just saying how
you're doing, you want some food.
Just saying how you're doing,you want some food, Like those
little things.
They may not seem like much butyou're stepping out from behind
the computer and the textmessaging and whatever, and
(24:36):
really connecting with thepeople around you.
So you move that to a personalbusiness space and I take that
same approach now.
So I'm launching like thisnewsletter that does invite
people to be more creative,because that's something we can
do, brings you joy, and you takethat joy and you add it to how
(24:58):
can you help people in whateverspace you're working in.
John Neral (25:02):
I really appreciate you sharing that because,
especially as more people arereturning to the work site and
they're back in the office,people have to break some habits
that they've they've created intheir routines because of
working remotely or because ofCOVID and that whole thing that
you just offered everybody.
To simply get up from your desk, go connect with somebody, say
(25:25):
hi, see how they're doing,that's such a gift and it's such
an amazing talent, because itdoesn't have to be anything
magnanimous, it's just anopportunity for people to get to
know you, and that's wherethings can evolve.
Melissa Mwai (25:39):
Yep, yep.
I remember many years ago I hadfriends that we used to color
during work because our job wasstressful.
We worked in a call center andwe would have coloring breaks.
And guess what?
I am still friends with thosepeople that I colored with, you
know.
So, bring, bring out somecrayons, do whatever it is you
(26:01):
know, find ways to de-stress ifyou need to.
But yeah, I always say that,like people feel like they can't
do a creative thing, you don'thave to be a creative person.
You like to organize.
Organize your dress drawer.
Yeah, offer to organize someoneelse's bookcase, you know, dude
.
So I think it's just thatmindset of how can you use the
(26:24):
gift you have to help someoneelse.
John Neral (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, and to simply connect.
You talked about this earlierin the episode, but that
opportunity to just show up andstand out and connect with
somebody on whatever level youneed to be, whether it be
professional or it's personal insome way, or it's just hey, do
you just wanna go grab a walk,or it's that talk by the coffee
(26:49):
machine?
Whatever that might be, there'san opportunity to connect and I
think if there's one thingpeople are going to be a little
more challenged with this yearis being able to open up and
connect in those ways that areauthentic and genuine, as you
talked about earlier.
So, my friend, I am so proud ofyou.
(27:11):
I am honored, I am honored tohave served as your coach.
I thank you for coming on thisepisode to share part of your
story, and I wanna turn the micover to you right now so you can
share all the great things andplaces where people can find you
, connect with you, learn moreabout your books.
The mic's yours.
Melissa Mwai (27:30):
Oh, thanks so much , john, this has been fabulous.
So again you can find me on theweb melissamoycom.
I'm also on Substack doing thiscreative newsletter for anyone
who wants to write or draw, andall my social media Blue Sky.
(27:50):
Everything is there, but I hopeto see you.
You know, drop in, say hellowherever I am on social media.
John Neral (27:59):
And I promise I'll say hi back.
You will Absolutely.
I will make sure all of that isin the show notes and when you
connect with Melissa, let herknow you heard her on the
Mid-Career GPS podcast and enjoythe conversation and she's
absolutely a great person toconnect with Melissa.
Thank you so very much forbeing just a fabulous client and
a wonderful guest today on theMid-Career GPS podcast.
Melissa Mwai (28:21):
Thank you, john, you rock, I love it.
Right back at you, my friend.
John Neral (28:26):
All right.
If there is one takeaway I wantto offer everyone who's
listening today, it's thisClarity is your best friend,
whatever it is you want to do inyour career, whether you're
pursuing that nine to five,you're moving up the corporate
ladder, you're moving into thatexecutive role or you're going
out on your own.
Having the clarity to know thedirection you want to head and
(28:50):
the steps you want to take isall about building that
mid-career GPS to get you there,and I'm so grateful that
Melissa shared some of thethings that we coached on during
our working relationshiptogether so she could share with
you the clarity she has aboutwhere she's at along her
mid-career journey.
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
(29:14):
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
(29:34):
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Darrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(29:56):
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
Hey there, I hope you had lots of good luck for St
Patrick's Day and are ready totackle the week.
So let me ask you do youbelieve there is luck in your
job search?
Do you believe there issomething about being in the
right place at the right time,or do you believe it is all
about how you show up and putyourself out there to make and
(00:21):
create those opportunities thatelevate your career out there to
make and create thoseopportunities that elevate your
career.
Remember how we show up matters, and today's guest is a
wonderful example of that.
In a few moments, you will meetone of my clients, melissa
Mawai.
She'll share her success storyabout how she gained the career
(00:43):
clarity she needed to make abold move in her career, how she
got the ick out of networkingand how she found a way to do it
more authentically that alignedwith exactly what she needed.
She's got a great story, solet's get started.
(01:06):
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
Having a client come on andshare their wins with you is
very special to me.
Not all of my clients want toshare their stories and I
(01:28):
completely respect that.
Melissa and I have known eachother for years.
We worked together at aprevious organization and, while
we didn't work directly witheach other, we certainly
traveled in similar circles atwork certainly traveled in
similar circles at work, so youcan imagine how honored I was
when she reached out to me andwanted to learn more about how I
(01:49):
could help her as her coach.
Melissa H Mwai is a children'sauthor, illustrator and story
coach.
She is the author of fivenonfiction books, including I
Can Make a Friend, published byPawprints in 2025, a Puerto
Rican Childhood, published by DKin 2024, and Stacey Abrams,
(02:12):
published by National Geo Kidsin 2022.
As a neurodiverse Afro-Latina,melissa is thrilled that her
books help ethnically andneurodiverse kids learn more
deeply about the world aroundthem, and for fun, she rewatches
movies like the Princess Brideand Hamilton with her family.
(02:33):
It is my pleasure to introduceyou to Melissa Mwai.
I hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Hey there, melissa.
Welcome to the podcast.
It's great to have you heretoday.
Melissa Mwai (02:46):
Thanks for having me, John.
I'm excited to be here.
John Neral (02:49):
Well, you and I have had an opportunity to do some
work together.
We're going to talk abouteverything that you've been
accomplishing and your story,but, just to get us started,
something happened for you atmid-career that was very
impactful and absolutely shiftedyour career trajectory.
(03:11):
Would you please share thatwith us?
Melissa Mwai (03:13):
Sure thing.
So, like a lot of us, I feellike COVID was a turning point.
So before that I was doing aproject management work and
education, and when my kidsstarted homeschooling, I used
that opportunity to shift mycareer to focus more on the
(03:35):
writing and illustration workthat I do for kids, and it
worked out really, really well.
I'm excited to have made thatchange.
John Neral (03:45):
When we were going through the pandemic and trying
to figure out how to live andwork in the midst of COVID.
Looking back on it all saywe're about five years.
We're five years, basically,after the pandemic started.
What would you say is thebiggest lesson you've learned
from that whole time in yourlife?
What would you say is thebiggest lesson you've learned?
Melissa Mwai (04:04):
from that whole time in your life.
It might sound a little cliche,but it really is.
We really don't know how muchtime we have.
My first book project happenedin 2021, and it was right after
my dad had passed away and Iknew that if he was still around
(04:27):
he would have wanted me to jumpon that opportunity and I did,
and I'm so glad I did.
John Neral (04:31):
Yeah Well, books change lives, right, and books
are those things that we get tohave that quiet space with.
I'm somebody who reads books ona device, because to me it's a
little easier in that regard.
I just kind of gravitate towardthat.
When you read books, are youholding that book in your hand
(04:53):
or are you?
On a device or both.
Melissa Mwai (04:56):
I do a little bit of both.
I really, really loveaudiobooks.
I think that helps a lot.
It's being told a story andeven as an adult, to have that
moment is really powerful.
Yeah.
John Neral (05:12):
The number of books that you've had a chance to
author and work on isundoubtedly impressive, but
there's one book I want to talkto you about.
So, back in 2022, you publisheda book or worked on a book with
National Geo Kids about StaceyAbrams.
What was it about that bookproject that fascinated you so
(05:37):
much?
Melissa Mwai (05:39):
Well, stacey is a public figure and, as I learned
more about her story, she reallyhonestly believes in the power
of change and using your voice,so that was important to me as
an emerging author.
I didn't realize how how thathelped me get through some of my
(06:03):
own personal grief, how thathelped me get through some of my
own personal grief, and I trulydo believe that that's an
ongoing issue, like we do needto continue to encourage people
to vote and use their voices.
John Neral (06:31):
And that's part of my you get to do now,
specifically as an author,illustrator and story coach.
Can you break down for uswhat's that?
One skill, or maybe two skills,not to put you too much on the
spot, right, but like those oneor two skills that you feel have
(06:51):
just served you well throughoutyour entire career.
Melissa Mwai (06:55):
Sure, I think for me it's being authentic in what
you say.
So as a writer and illustrator,you do have to put yourself out
there and it's maybe small,subtle ways, but readers pick up
on that.
And when I'm communicating withother storytellers, I also have
(07:21):
to be honest about you knowwhere they are in the process.
I also have to be honest aboutyou know where they are in the
process, but encourage them, andthat's just who I am and I
think that helps other peoplegrow in their storytelling.
John Neral (07:35):
We talk so much on this podcast about being able to
tell your own story, and totell your story from a place of
value and service that getspeople interested in who you are
and what you do, as opposed tofinding you interesting.
Let's face it we're allinteresting people, but when
you're interested in somebody,there's a different level of
(07:57):
relationship.
If you could offer any adviceto people who are listening
today, especially who arestruggling to find their voice
or tell their story in a way toget people interested, what
would you offer them today?
Melissa Mwai (08:17):
I would say you need to do some reflection, find
your passion and figure out howto take that passion and put it
into the work you do.
You know it may not be a one toone correlation.
So when I was doing a day job,I had the privilege of working
on storyboards and visual mediastoryboards and visual media and
(08:40):
that part I really, reallyloved and you could see that.
So if you don't have theopportunity to do everything you
need or everything you want,find those aspects in the work
that you are doing and pull thatpassion in.
John Neral (08:57):
So I shared a little bit about this in the
introduction, but you and I'veknown each other for a while.
We had an opportunity to worktogether at an organization, and
then one day I get this messageand you want to talk and you
want to learn a little bit moreabout coaching and specifically
(09:18):
how I could help you as yourcoach.
And specifically how I couldhelp you as your coach, can you
take us back to that moment interms of where you were at in
your career and entrepreneurialjourney and why seeking a coach
was important for you at thatmoment?
Melissa Mwai (09:35):
Totally so.
At that point I had a couple ofbooks coming out and I didn't
really know what to do next.
You know I'm in the freelanceworld and hadn't really gone
back into that, being in a jobfor a decade.
(09:55):
The world changes, right.
How do you apply for jobs?
So that's where you know,knowing you and knowing the way
you connect with people made thedifference for me to want to
reach out and just find out howyou could help me grow in my own
(10:18):
career, my business.
John Neral (10:21):
Well, thank you for that.
I appreciate that and thatwarms my heart to hear that
because, as you know, throughour working relationship, that
connection's really important,right?
I mean, coaching is one ofthose things where it can be
very intense and it can be a lotof hard work.
In that regard, had you workedwith a coach before we started
(10:44):
working together, or had youbeen exploring that?
Melissa Mwai (10:47):
I did like a life coach, but I felt like it wasn't
really going anywhere to behonest, but I needed something
with a more specific plan, or Ishould say someone with a more
specific plan.
John Neral (10:59):
Okay, so having that structure in terms of the
clarity in terms of where youwanted to go in your career,
specifically with your businesslet's talk about that for a
minute.
So what would you say were someof the benefits you got from
our coaching in terms of havingthat career clarity that made
(11:21):
you move forward?
Melissa Mwai (11:23):
Sure.
So one thing we talked about alot was how you present yourself
to the people you want to help,and for me that really
resonated because I always feltlike a little bit ick when he,
when the thought of marketing.
You know like no.
(11:54):
So you gave me the language tofigure out how I could present
myself in a way that align withmy values.
Like I didn't even reallyunderstand that that was a thing
that was blocking me fromconnecting with potential people
that I could work with.
John Neral (12:07):
So this is why I adore you, because you're so
genuine in that regard, becausedescribing that as ick is
perfect, because so many peoplestruggle with that notion of how
can I authentically presentmyself in a way that I feel
comfortable doing and not feellike I'm going to turn people
(12:28):
off, because it can feel verysalesy sometimes and that's one
of the things we worked ontrying to avoid.
So, for everybody who'slistening and I'm sure they're
curious in terms of what wouldthat and we call it a unique
professional value statement.
But when you think about whoyou help and what you help
(12:49):
people do, what would you tellthem today?
Melissa Mwai (12:54):
I would say I'm an author, illustrator, who helps
neurodiverse kids learn moreabout the world around them.
John Neral (13:02):
Hey, there is your LinkedIn profile working for you
24-7?
.
Who helps neurodiverse kidslearn more about the world
around them?
Hey, there is your LinkedInprofile working for you 24-7?
.
For many mid-careerprofessionals, optimizing their
LinkedIn presence isn't apriority until they start job
hunting or networking andrealize it's important.
If you're feeling the pressureto make your LinkedIn profile
stand out to recruiters andhiring managers, I'm here to
(13:25):
help.
Would you like me to reviewyour LinkedIn profile?
This is your opportunity toreceive my expert feedback.
I'll show you exactly whatchanges can attract more
recruiters and hiring managers,identify areas for improvement
and guide you in optimizing yourprofile.
This will boost yourprofessional brand and increase
(13:47):
your chances of landing more jobinterviews, expanding your
network and elevating yourprofessional presence.
For a limited time, spots areavailable for a personalized
LinkedIn profile review for just$50.
For more details, check theshow notes or visit my website
at johnnerrellcom.
Forward slash courses.
(14:08):
Now let's dive back into theepisode.
So let's dig a little moredeeply into that.
So, for people who may notfully know who a neurodiverse
kid is, who, are they?
Melissa Mwai (14:24):
So?
Neurodiversity is basically howyour brain works and there are
brains that work the way youwould expect them to and there
are brains that work a littledifferently.
So you might have sensoryissues, you might get
hyperfixated on something,issues you might get hyper
(14:46):
fixated on something, or, youknow, you might know someone who
is autistic or ADHD, likemyself.
So it just presents a littlebit of a challenge in excuse me,
presents a challenge in how youmight move around, move about
in the world or completedeadlines or just even
communicate with others and feellike you're doing that in an
authentic way.
John Neral (15:06):
Nice.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah, absolutely, and there's aneed for that.
We know that.
So, in our work, as we werecoaching around what was going
to be next for you and pursuingthis freelance avenue, Talk to
us a little bit about where yourcareer and your work in
(15:28):
business are today.
Melissa Mwai (15:30):
Yeah, so some of the new projects I've taken on
was I, like, rebranded mywebsite and and it went from the
ground up in the language.
Um, I've put myself out theremore actively for visiting
schools.
Um, another big change youencouraged me was, you know,
(15:51):
just to connect with people on,you know, video or podcasts, and
that's part of what I'm doingnow, which I would have not ever
have done.
So I'm really really excited toshare that, because it's a way
to share my voice and my storyin a, I feel like, more active
(16:15):
and proactive role.
John Neral (16:17):
Yeah, Pursuing the freelance or entrepreneurial
route is never easy.
We know it, we're living it andwe're navigating through it and
all those kind of things.
But it can certainly be veryrewarding and fulfilling,
especially when you've worked inthat traditional nine to five
type Monday through Friday job.
(16:39):
In the course of our coachingand your journey, what was the
deciding factor for you topursue the entrepreneurial route
, as opposed to thatquote-unquote traditional Monday
to Friday, nine to five job andmaybe have this on the side?
Melissa Mwai (17:03):
I think it was part of just a series of
conversations we've workedthrough, when we did the
professional value statement andkind of worked through the
organizations that might be agood fit for me.
That was really helpful.
So I still keep that in mindwhen I reach out to potential
clients and I'm open to doingfreelance work with a more
(17:27):
traditional company, but maybenot like full-time, maybe
contract, and it was just thingsI hadn't really considered so
that I can have more of abalance between my personal
business plus maybe some moresteady income from you know, a
nine to five for a short amountof time.
John Neral (17:44):
Yeah, and you brought me back for a moment
because I remember thosecoaching conversations,
specifically around my 4Fframework, where we talked about
the fit, the function, thefinance, the forward, and that
really helped you with thatclarity to be like, okay, this
is the path I want to pursue,this is where I want to invest
(18:04):
my time, my effort, my energy.
So let's play this little gamehere for a moment, okay, okay,
I'm laughing Monerous.
Melissa Mwai (18:16):
Unscripted 88.
Okay.
John Neral (18:19):
So full disclosure for everybody.
So I have all my guests fillout a form and there's some
questions to get them to kind ofthink.
But if you've been listeningfor a while, you know that
sometimes the conversations takea different path, because it's
an interesting part to all thisand I record on video but I
don't repurpose it.
And Melissa, your face was kindof like oh come on, john, don't
do this to me.
(18:39):
I promise I got you.
I got you on this, okay, allright, all right.
So for any mid-careerprofessional, when we talk about
forward, we talk about thosenext two steps, right?
So there's the job you're goinginto, then there's the next two
steps after it.
If we were to look into thefuture, and we were to look five
(19:04):
to seven years down the road,where do you see your career at
specifically, from defining yourimpact or reach to help the
people you do every day.
Melissa Mwai (19:23):
So I'll take that at two angles.
For the kids that I write for,I would love to offer more free
(19:52):
school visits and just connectwith them, because that's been a
really, really rewarding partof being an author, illustrator.
I had a teacher that was likehey, you know, it was so great
that you read your book A PuertoRican Childhood to my kids,
because you know, I have a kidwho's also Puerto Rican and they
really connected with it.
And when I was a kid I didn'thave that, you know, and when I
was a kid I didn't have that,you know.
So to be that person wow, thatlike blew me away.
So I would love to continue todo that and travel around you
(20:16):
know the US and do that.
That'd be a big goal.
Speak at conferences foremerging writers and
illustrators more regularly Imean there are opportunities now
(20:36):
but that's a whole different,that's a down the road, like a
different investment.
But I would love to do that andengage more with people who
just want to be more creativeand go into the children's
literature space.
John Neral (20:46):
Yeah, Dream big Absolutely.
You got to dream big Absolutely.
Is there anything?
Is there anything else you seeyourself doing?
Melissa Mwai (20:56):
Um, not sure.
I mean I would like to you knowactually.
No, I'll take that back.
So I'm doing this new podcastthat I'm launching in March and
I would love for that to blow up.
I'm doing it with two otherco-hosts and we're digging into
the craft of writing children'sliterature, and I have a heart
(21:20):
for teaching, so I would love todo that too.
I mean, the thing with being anentrepreneur is you have to
wear a lot of hats and figureout where your skills fit, and,
john, you definitely helped memap that out.
So I appreciate that, because Ican tell you, when I started, I
didn't quite view myself theway I view myself now.
John Neral (21:40):
So yeah, yeah.
No, that was such a powerfulpart of our work together to
kind of see your evolution inthat regard to really step in
this space.
The name of your podcast againis Kid Lit.
Melissa Mwai (21:52):
Deconstruction Zone Podcast and it's launching
in March 31st, nice All right.
John Neral (21:57):
So this is going to come out just before your
podcast launches.
I'm excited for you and yourco-hosts to get this out there
because, as we talked and lookedat it and everything, it's got
a definite niche that's going toserve a lot of people.
So good luck with all that.
Melissa Mwai (22:15):
Well, thank you.
John Neral (22:16):
Yeah.
So, melissa, we've talked a lotabout your journey today and
what that all has meant andeverything.
The idea behind building amid-career GPS is to help you
prepare position and promote whoyou are and what you do so you
can show up to find a job youlove or love the job you have.
(22:37):
What advice would you givesomeone to help them build their
mid-career GPS today?
Melissa Mwai (22:44):
I would say be as creative as possible about your
career, whether you're juststarting or you've been in the
business for a long time.
By bringing that creativitywhether it's in your
communication with people orwhether you're presenting that
(23:13):
helps you stand out and alsohelps you figure out what you
love to do.
John Neral (23:16):
Stay with me for this for a moment, because I
love how you phrase that.
And when we think about beingcreative in this job market for
people who are looking for thatjob with an employer, or even if
they're considering going outon their own, offering people to
(23:37):
be as creative as possible issuch a wonderful tip.
How did you unlock thatcreative part of you even more
to really step into where youare now?
Melissa Mwai (23:54):
So I'll just say, before I moved into this more
creative space, I kind of youknow there's a place for doing
what you're told, especially asyou're getting to know a company
and organization.
But you know, offeringsolutions, connecting with
(24:14):
coworkers in ways that mightsurprise them, Like, hey, you
know, I remember dropping intoyour office and just saying how
you're doing, you want some food.
Just saying how you're doing,you want some food, Like those
little things.
They may not seem like much butyou're stepping out from behind
the computer and the textmessaging and whatever, and
(24:36):
really connecting with thepeople around you.
So you move that to a personalbusiness space and I take that
same approach now.
So I'm launching like thisnewsletter that does invite
people to be more creative,because that's something we can
do, brings you joy, and you takethat joy and you add it to how
(24:58):
can you help people in whateverspace you're working in.
John Neral (25:02):
I really appreciate you sharing that because,
especially as more people arereturning to the work site and
they're back in the office,people have to break some habits
that they've they've created intheir routines because of
working remotely or because ofCOVID and that whole thing that
you just offered everybody.
To simply get up from your desk, go connect with somebody, say
(25:25):
hi, see how they're doing,that's such a gift and it's such
an amazing talent, because itdoesn't have to be anything
magnanimous, it's just anopportunity for people to get to
know you, and that's wherethings can evolve.
Melissa Mwai (25:39):
Yep, yep.
I remember many years ago I hadfriends that we used to color
during work because our job wasstressful.
We worked in a call center andwe would have coloring breaks.
And guess what?
I am still friends with thosepeople that I colored with, you
know.
So, bring, bring out somecrayons, do whatever it is you
(26:01):
know, find ways to de-stress ifyou need to.
But yeah, I always say that,like people feel like they can't
do a creative thing, you don'thave to be a creative person.
You like to organize.
Organize your dress drawer.
Yeah, offer to organize someoneelse's bookcase, you know, dude
.
So I think it's just thatmindset of how can you use the
(26:24):
gift you have to help someoneelse.
John Neral (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, and to simply connect.
You talked about this earlierin the episode, but that
opportunity to just show up andstand out and connect with
somebody on whatever level youneed to be, whether it be
professional or it's personal insome way, or it's just hey, do
you just wanna go grab a walk,or it's that talk by the coffee
(26:49):
machine?
Whatever that might be, there'san opportunity to connect and I
think if there's one thingpeople are going to be a little
more challenged with this yearis being able to open up and
connect in those ways that areauthentic and genuine, as you
talked about earlier.
So, my friend, I am so proud ofyou.
(27:11):
I am honored, I am honored tohave served as your coach.
I thank you for coming on thisepisode to share part of your
story, and I wanna turn the micover to you right now so you can
share all the great things andplaces where people can find you
, connect with you, learn moreabout your books.
The mic's yours.
Melissa Mwai (27:30):
Oh, thanks so much , john, this has been fabulous.
So again you can find me on theweb melissamoycom.
I'm also on Substack doing thiscreative newsletter for anyone
who wants to write or draw, andall my social media Blue Sky.
(27:50):
Everything is there, but I hopeto see you.
You know, drop in, say hellowherever I am on social media.
John Neral (27:59):
And I promise I'll say hi back.
You will Absolutely.
I will make sure all of that isin the show notes and when you
connect with Melissa, let herknow you heard her on the
Mid-Career GPS podcast and enjoythe conversation and she's
absolutely a great person toconnect with Melissa.
Thank you so very much forbeing just a fabulous client and
a wonderful guest today on theMid-Career GPS podcast.
Melissa Mwai (28:21):
Thank you, john, you rock, I love it.
Right back at you, my friend.
John Neral (28:26):
All right.
If there is one takeaway I wantto offer everyone who's
listening today, it's thisClarity is your best friend,
whatever it is you want to do inyour career, whether you're
pursuing that nine to five,you're moving up the corporate
ladder, you're moving into thatexecutive role or you're going
out on your own.
Having the clarity to know thedirection you want to head and
(28:50):
the steps you want to take isall about building that
mid-career GPS to get you there,and I'm so grateful that
Melissa shared some of thethings that we coached on during
our working relationshiptogether so she could share with
you the clarity she has aboutwhere she's at along her
mid-career journey.
So until next time, my friends,remember this you will build
(29:14):
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
(29:34):
Podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Darrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(29:56):
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
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