April 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Discover what happens when strategic investments meet social transformation as we sit down with Jen Hampton from Asheville Food and Beverage United. We're taking a hard look at the post-pandemic surge in bicycle travel and why our cities need to catch up. But it's not all about the eco-friendly ride; we're also peeling back the layers on private equity's grab on single-family homes—how might this affect you and the housing market at large? From discussing global economic pressures to offering practical debt elimination strategies, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the balance between financial savvy and social conscience.
Ever considered the true worth of a smile you receive from a waiter or the effort behind your barista's 'good morning'? This episode taps into the emotional labor and undervalued dignity within the service industry. We're talking about the reality behind the façade service workers maintain the unpredictability of tipping, and the stagnant wages that leave many counting coins rather than paychecks. With legislative waves beginning to recognize the importance of these roles, we're highlighting why it's high time to re-evaluate and redefine what it means to work in service—with real stories from the front lines.
Change is brewing for service workers, and this pandemic has poured us a new cup of appreciation for these essential roles. We'll explore the transformation in societal views on tipping, tracing back to discriminatory roots and moving toward a world where the resilience and value of service staff are undisputed. With employers and patrons alike waking up to the worth of frontline service, the industry is reimagining its norms to prioritize dignity and efficiency. Make sure to join us again as we continue our conversation with Jen Hampton and take a closer look at the actions of Asheville Food and Beverage United in fostering these necessary changes.
https://sites.google.com/view/avlfbu/home
https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2023/11/15/asheville-food-beverage-united-becomes-labor-union-seeks-members/71583224007/
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Arc Integrated
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joel (00:00):
What if investing in each other could change the world?
I'm Joel Skeen with bizradiousand this is the.
Mindful Marketplace industryleaders, investors and economic
(00:22):
experts who are questioning theassumption that there's only one
bottom line and who are notonly solving a market problem to
make a profit, but also solvinga social problem to make an
impact.
It's where we learn how toconnect our money and our
businesses to our values, ourcommunity and ourselves.
Today, I'm really excited toget to be talking with Jen
Hampton of the Asheville Foodand Beverage United with Jen
(00:43):
Hampton of the Asheville Foodand Beverage United.
But first we got to hit thebalance sheet the assets,
liabilities, debts andinvestments.
So in the assets column, I wantto talk about the new urban
order report on improvements intransportation.
So, with the debate betweenremote work and back to office
continues.
One interesting but oftenmissed part of the discussion is
(01:06):
how bicycle usage remains upsince 2019 and has stabilized at
about 37% more trips thanbefore the pandemic.
It's a huge increase, no doubtin part to the acceleration by
the growth of e-bikes duringthat same period.
What should cities make of thisdata?
I think they should lean intothis trend and do everything
possible to preserve the gainsin biking.
What should cities make of thisdata?
I think they should lean intothis trend and do everything
(01:26):
possible to preserve the gainsin biking.
Too few cities are doing eitherof those things.
Honestly, the benefits ofwalking and biking are
incredibly well documented.
Not only is it a zero carbonmode of transportation, but it's
a benefit to people's healthand their mental health, and it
can promote the economy.
Moreover, since walking andbiking benefits everyone, from
(01:47):
young children to seniorcitizens, from rich to poor
commuter tourist, it is anequitable strategy.
But big picture discussionsabout the direction of our
cities rarely acknowledge thatthere are increasing barriers to
people walking, like the riseof delivery or remote work and
the decline of transit.
Rather than focus on trying tomanage delivery and remote work,
(02:07):
what if cities put all theirenergy into making walking and
biking irresistible?
A radically different andbetter cities could emerge All
right in the liabilities column.
So I need to talk a little bitabout private equity buying
single family homes.
So I don't know about you guys,but have you ever looked at the
housing prices right now andwondered who exactly is buying
(02:27):
these places?
Well, it turns out that it maynot be your neighbors, or even
wealthy individuals moving totown.
It may actually be Wall Street.
The average worker in Americaonly makes about $4,000 more a
year now than they did back in2000.
But in those same 20 years, theaverage American home price has
risen from an average cost of$168,000 up to a whopping
(02:50):
$424,000.
And in that same time, theaverage rent has gone from about
$600 a month to over $1,200 amonth.
Renters now make up a muchlarger share of the housing
market, and the average familyspends 40% of their income just
on housing alone.
Funds like BlackRock andVanguard, who both manage over a
(03:11):
trillion dollars in assets,have been buying up not just
apartment buildings andcomplexes, but single-family
(03:32):
homes and becoming multinationalconglomerate landlords.
According to the MetLifeInvestment Management, unless
laws are passed to restrictrent-seeking by these hedge
funds and private equity groups,who already have an outsized
control of US business,institutional investors may
control 40% of single-familyrental homes by 2030.
All right, in the debts column.
(03:52):
So I normally talk about theproblem of debt here in America,
either as a country or asindividuals, but today I also
want to point out what'shappening with debt
internationally.
So the global economy continuesto grapple with the lingering
effects of historically highinterest rates, particularly
impacting some of the world'spoorest countries.
This phenomenon is aconsequence of worldwide
(04:14):
tightening campaigns that appearto be concluding.
The aftermath is being keenlyfelt by low-income countries as
global interest rates surge,making it more challenging to
manage and pay off debt.
Drawing comparisons to the debtcrisis of the 1980s, the World
Bank's chief economist hasexpressed concerns about the
potential for these countries toface increasing difficulties if
(04:37):
interest rates remain elevated.
Over the past three years,there have been 18 sovereign
countries defaulting on theirloans, surpassing the total
defaults from the previous twodecades combined.
Notable countries include Ghana, zambia, sri Lanka and, with
Ethiopia potentially facing asimilar situation.
The ratio of external debt togross national income remains
(05:00):
historically high, particularlyfor the poorest nations, leading
to an even higher interestpayments for these poor,
exploited countries.
This trend is divertingresources away from essential
sectors such as education,health and infrastructure,
ultimately hindering economicgrowth and disproportionately
impacting vulnerable communities.
If you are trying to pay offyour own debt, I want to remind
(05:22):
you that the Mindful Marketplaceis providing all of our
listeners with a free,customized report on how to best
eliminate personal and businessdebt, based on your unique
situation.
Lots of families and businessesare using this report to
eliminate all of their debt,including mortgages, in nine
years or less, without spendingadditional money.
So get free from debt by goingto mindfulmarketplaceshowcom
(05:47):
money.
So get free from debt by goingto mindfulmarketplaceshowcom and
in the investments column.
So I am really excited andproud to announce that the
Mindful Marketplace here ispartnering with Kevin Jones of
Neighborhood Economics andMichael Schuman of the Main
Street Journal.
Along with the AmericanIndependent Business Alliance
and the National Coalition forCommunity Capital, we are going
to be doing a twice-a-monthwebinar highlighting a different
(06:07):
new innovative investment fund.
Each webinar Funds are going toinclude innovative housing
solutions, community-focusedcommercial real estate,
entrepreneurship as a path togenerational wealth for
marginalized communities, andshared business ownership and
employee ownership in all itsforms.
So the American IndependentBusiness Alliance, the National
(06:28):
Coalition for Community Capital,nc3, along with Michael
Schumann's Main Street Journal,are all partners in this work
that bridges race class zipcodes to engage all groups
repairing their local economies.
So follow the MindfulMarketplace show on YouTube to
plug into those live events.
All right, I am excited now toget to spend some time here with
(06:52):
Jen Hampton from the AshevilleFood and Beverage United.
Jen, thank you so much forjoining us on the show.
We're happy to have you.
Jen (07:00):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
This is a unique opportunity totalk about food and beverage
workers.
Joel (07:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm excited because I just sawthere was a new news article
about the work you're doing inthe Citizen Times.
There has been a lot ofmovement and kind of energy
around this recently, but Iguess I think it'd be good for
us to start out a little morebroadly.
You know, a lot of us know thatour economy has we've heard
(07:29):
this all the time right that oureconomy has moved from a
manufacturing economy to aservice worker economy and more
and more people in the workforceare doing service work jobs.
I'm wondering have you doneservice work yourself?
How did this become a passionfor you?
Jen (07:48):
Oh yeah, I have worked in the service industry for 31
years, 17 of those years righthere in Asheville in various
restaurants and cafes, so I havea lot of experience.
Up until just earlier this year, working in restaurants and
cafes and it became a passionfor me because basically during
(08:12):
the pandemic, I started seeingthat all of the issues I had
internalized as my own fault youknow, I had made this decision
or that choice or you knowwhatever that led to low wages
and no health care and all thatstuff.
I thought that was all my fault.
But when I started talking toother workers I realized that it
was systemic and that we wereall facing these issues and that
(08:34):
really fired me up to want todo something about it.
Joel (08:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
What is it like, for I mean,you've been in that industry for
so long what is it actuallylike day to day when it comes to
either the work that's beingdone, the way that you know you
kind of interact with yourbosses, or your clients and
customers, or, I guess you know,on the we can get into the pay
side of things.
There's a lot of things wecould talk about, but I guess
(08:59):
you know what stands out to youas most kind of indicative of
the experience of working in theservice industry.
Jen (09:07):
You know I've thought a lot about that, so I'm glad you
asked me that question.
There's this really strong tiein the community of, especially,
you know, food service workersand other like retail and stuff
where you deal with customersbecause something happens in.
You know the interactions withpeople when it's a customer and
(09:28):
service provider.
You know interaction and we getto see, as service workers, a
different side of people.
You know, we get to see them intheir downtime, when they're
not in their professionalsetting, you know, and it's just
really interesting kind ofinsight and perspective on a
different side of society.
(09:50):
Basically, and since we alldeal with it, you know there's a
sense of camaraderie, like youknow we've been in the
battlefield together becausewe've seen some stuff, we've
heard some stuff and you knowit's just like wow, you know,
and so we you don't reallyunderstand it unless you've been
through it and you know it'sjust it really fosters a sense
(10:11):
of community.
Yeah, I would say that that'sthe biggest thing that stands
out to me and it also depends on, like where and what your
customer base is and you want tohave, like genuine interactions
with customers.
But you have to put up thiswall, you have to put on this
face.
You know your customer serviceface, your customer service
(10:33):
voice, because so much of yourpersonality and the way you
present yourself, especially forpeople who get tips, you know
you're dependent on peopleresponding well to those
interactions for your living,you know.
So it's also that kind of powerdynamic where you understand
that they have the power thecustomer does, because if
(10:55):
they're not happy with theservice you provide, or you know
the smiles that you give, thenyou don't get paid.
Joel (11:01):
Basically, yeah, I was only in restaurants for maybe
six, eight months, but Idefinitely remember that being
the case and I remember a goodfriend and mentor of mine later
in life who came from he startedas a bus boy, worked his way up
to GM of a you know of acorporate chain, and I remember
he said that it always felt like, um, that in that work you are
(11:24):
kind of the front line and youare working with people who a
lot of times they sort of feelhopeless and powerless sometimes
in their own lives and theyfeel like they've maybe been
sort of talked down to ortreated poorly in a certain way
by either their boss or bysomething else.
And so he's like you'reinteracting with the people the
one time where they kind of feellike they have a little bit of
power, and you know, and so healways, just, you know,
(11:49):
suggested that we keep that inmind in doing the work we had on
Amanda Claypool back lastsummer and she had a fascinating
story where she went ahead andshe actually took a job.
She's a writer and a consultantand she had heard so much about
this talk, about, you know, thelack of workers, lack of workers
(12:11):
, that there was a laborshortage and so she wanted to
find out kind of what it wasabout and she went ahead and
took a job waiting tables atWaffle House.
She said it could have been anycorporate chain you could have
she could have taken.
It would have been about thesame experience, but that was
where she ended up.
But that was where she ended upand she talked about just the
(12:33):
economics and kind of just howmuch she really broke down the
details of what it actuallycosts to be a worker and what it
costs to work for tips.
Could you speak a little bitabout that, about the experience
of service workers and who arefull-time doing this as their
full-time work but are workingbased on that tipped income?
Jen (12:54):
Yeah, it can be taxing emotionally because you're
always having to present thisfake self, you know, and just
kind of take whatever people sayto you and just kind of let it
try to wash over you because youcan't react, you know.
So you do have to just keep asmile on and just internalize
(13:15):
those things.
So it can be really stressful.
I remember thinking many timesthat it just didn't feel good to
be selling my smiles.
Basically, and after my lastjob working in Biltmore Village
at a bakery there, or my lastfront of the house job, I should
say I just vowed that Icouldn't deal with it anymore.
(13:36):
It was just too much.
And the stress of it is is thatyou never know, even if you give
your best service to people,they may not tip, you know, or
they may not tip adequately, andyou can end up having to
actually pay to be serving them,because if they don't tip you
at least 20%, then you're stillgetting taxed on what 20% of
(13:58):
your sales would be.
So you're actually losing moneysometimes.
So it was just a constantstruggle, you know.
And then if you don't gettipped, well, you know, I would
internalize it and feel like Iwas a bad person, that I wasn't
nice enough, that I didsomething wrong, and you know
just that that really stands outto me is what affected me the
most as a front of the housetipped worker was just having to
(14:22):
rely on on that system as mysource of income and feeling
pretty powerless for that reason.
Joel (14:29):
Yeah, because tipped workers, in most states at least
, and that's changing here andthere.
I just saw that the city ofChicago changed their tipped
worker minimum wage to $15.
I've seen that happening hereand there, but in a lot of
states we think of people makingan income, but what they're
(14:52):
actually getting paid from therestaurant a lot of times is
just a couple dollars an hour.
Is that right?
Jen (14:58):
Yep, that's absolutely right.
When I first started working asa waitress, as we called them
back then in 1992, I was making$2.03 an hour, and now people
are making $2.13 an hour 30years later.
So it hasn't really changed,you know, in any substantial way
.
And many times you don't evenget a paycheck because all of
(15:23):
that money goes to taxes.
I've even gotten a negativepaycheck at times where you know
I would owe the company moneybecause of the taxes that I had
to pay on my tips.
Joel (15:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I guess it kind ofbaffles me sometimes the way
that we think about certaintypes of work as being more
worthy of a living wage thanothers.
You know, like David Graeber,the anthropologist and he wrote
this book that I love calledDebt the First 5,000 Years kind
(15:58):
of points this out where he saysthat you know, we often think
about creating new things,production of something, as
something that's real work, butthat the service work is not
real work.
But he says, really, if youthink about it, you only have to
make a glass or make a cup once, but it has to be washed
(16:20):
thousands and thousands of times, and that's really where the
real work is.
I'm curious your perspective onthe nature of service work and
the dignity of it.
Jen (16:34):
Yeah, excellent.
So since the very beginning offorming Asheville Food and
Beverage United, a drivingfactor for me has been how many
times I've heard people say well, if you don't like it, then get
a better job.
You know, and that's justinfuriating because how dare you
?
You know, we work really hard.
(16:55):
Service work is really hard.
It's physically demanding, it'semotionally stressful and it's
has been historically completelyundervalued.
And I feel like you know,especially like servers, like
front of the house, that tippedworkers and stuff.
I feel like you know,especially like servers like
front of the house, that tippedworkers and stuff.
I feel like that really tiesgoes way back to jim crow era.
You know, when, um, that's whenthe really the tipped culture
(17:20):
started and that was a way forpeople to employers to employ,
um black workers and not have topay them.
You know.
So that's where those lawsreally originated.
And I feel like and then youknow there was a time where it
was like, well, it was the onlykind of job that a single mother
could get.
Or you know, um a divorcedwoman, oh well, she's going to
(17:41):
have to go wait tables, and thatstigma has just been attached,
you know, and I feel like thatreally changed during the
pandemic because suddenly weweren't there to serve people
and people really started tomiss us and understand that we
do provide a value.
And not only did customers, Ifeel like, start to appreciate
us more, but our bosses did too.
(18:04):
Because I know during thepandemic I was working at a
restaurant and we had to cut waydown on staffing and one of the
owners actually stepped in andstarted serving tables and
helping out in the kitchen andshe was shocked because she'd
never done that in her lifebefore and you know, since then
she really appreciated what thefront of the house especially
(18:25):
was going through.
And I've seen that shift in alot of employers, thankfully,
and in a lot of customers.
You know they they have a senseof what they were missing, I
guess, whenever we couldn'tprovide them that service.
So it hasn't maybe completelyshifted, but I am optimistic
that it is shifting and thatpeople are starting to recognize
that service work is real workand that all workers you know if
(18:50):
you put in a full hour, a fullweek's worth of work, you should
be able to live on that, youknow, because you've contributed
to society and filled a needthere.
So why shouldn't you be able tolive just like everybody else.
Joel (19:04):
Yeah, exactly In the second part of this episode we
are doing a two-part episode forthe listeners.
Here we're going to get into alot more about what exactly
Asheville Food and BeverageUnited is, what your goals are
and how you guys are going aboutthat.
But with the last few minuteswe've got here, I am curious how
(19:24):
you've seen things change sofar since the pandemic.
Obviously that was a prettydisruptive event, I guess.
How has service work changedfor the people, for yourself and
for the people that you areconnected with since then?
Jen (19:39):
Well, I would say there's a few things.
The first thing that popped inmy mind was the old phrase the
customer is always right.
That changed during thepandemic.
Customers started behaving verybadly the ones who were coming
out to eat and stuff and I feellike a lot of owners and I know
most service workers haveshifted our mentality to no, the
(20:00):
customer is not always rightand we're allowed to take up for
ourselves and maintain ourdignity at work.
So I feel like that's been amajor shift.
You know, I'm not saying we'renot not trying to be nice and,
you know, congenial and stuff,but if people mistreat us, we're
allowed to stand up forourselves now and I feel like
more people feel empowered to doso and not put up with it.
(20:21):
So that's been a hugetransformation since the
pandemic.
And then also, like I would saylike the way that people work
has changed, because there was alot, there was a staffing
shortage, because a lot ofpeople either left the area or
left the industry altogether.
You know, got educations thatallowed them to, you know,
(20:43):
transfer to a different industry.
So we did lose a lot of workersin this industry and we had to
start figuring out ways tostreamline our work.
So I feel like a lot of justthe day to day logistics of how
service workers do their jobshas changed a lot.
There's been a lot of cut downon wasteful things like, you
(21:06):
know, overpackaging or you know,just providing more stuff than
you really need to.
I was trying to come up with aconcrete example of that
concrete example of that, butyou know, just it's.
There's been a lot of like costsaving measures and work saving
measures and just things thatmake your life a little easier
for less staff.
So I feel like that's been abig improvement for sure.
Joel (21:28):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's funny.
You mentioned the the thecustomer's always right motto
and we all know that.
That that line.
But what we don't know isactually the full phrase where
it originates.
It was originally in matters oftaste.
The customer is always right,so it was actually originally
meant to be like hey, if you'reselling something that people
(21:49):
don't like, they're not going tobuy it.
And it has kind of morphed intothis weird.
If you're working withcustomers, then you have to
kowtow to everything they sayand you know, kind of weird this
weird power dynamic thing, andso it's funny that that's not
even what the original phraseeven meant in the slightest, but
so this is as I said, this is atwo-part episode.
(22:10):
Please tune in back next weekhere, same time here on Biz
Radio US to get to listen to thesecond half, where we're going
to really deep dive intoAsheville, food and Beverage
United with Jen Hampton here,and make sure to subscribe on
YouTube.
Now.
We are now video on YouTube,but also to us on iTunes,
spotify, iheartradio, stitcher,buzzsprout, wherever it is that
(22:35):
you get your podcasts and followus along, and if you can give
us a rating or review, thatalways helps, of course.
So tune in next time and pleasetake care of yourself.
And until next time, rememberwe are each other.
What if investing in each other could change the world?
I'm Joel Skeen with bizradiousand this is the.
Mindful Marketplace industryleaders, investors and economic
(00:22):
experts who are questioning theassumption that there's only one
bottom line and who are notonly solving a market problem to
make a profit, but also solvinga social problem to make an
impact.
It's where we learn how toconnect our money and our
businesses to our values, ourcommunity and ourselves.
Today, I'm really excited toget to be talking with Jen
Hampton of the Asheville Foodand Beverage United with Jen
(00:43):
Hampton of the Asheville Foodand Beverage United.
But first we got to hit thebalance sheet the assets,
liabilities, debts andinvestments.
So in the assets column, I wantto talk about the new urban
order report on improvements intransportation.
So, with the debate betweenremote work and back to office
continues.
One interesting but oftenmissed part of the discussion is
(01:06):
how bicycle usage remains upsince 2019 and has stabilized at
about 37% more trips thanbefore the pandemic.
It's a huge increase, no doubtin part to the acceleration by
the growth of e-bikes duringthat same period.
What should cities make of thisdata?
I think they should lean intothis trend and do everything
possible to preserve the gainsin biking.
What should cities make of thisdata?
I think they should lean intothis trend and do everything
(01:26):
possible to preserve the gainsin biking.
Too few cities are doing eitherof those things.
Honestly, the benefits ofwalking and biking are
incredibly well documented.
Not only is it a zero carbonmode of transportation, but it's
a benefit to people's healthand their mental health, and it
can promote the economy.
Moreover, since walking andbiking benefits everyone, from
(01:47):
young children to seniorcitizens, from rich to poor
commuter tourist, it is anequitable strategy.
But big picture discussionsabout the direction of our
cities rarely acknowledge thatthere are increasing barriers to
people walking, like the riseof delivery or remote work and
the decline of transit.
Rather than focus on trying tomanage delivery and remote work,
(02:07):
what if cities put all theirenergy into making walking and
biking irresistible?
A radically different andbetter cities could emerge All
right in the liabilities column.
So I need to talk a little bitabout private equity buying
single family homes.
So I don't know about you guys,but have you ever looked at the
housing prices right now andwondered who exactly is buying
(02:27):
these places?
Well, it turns out that it maynot be your neighbors, or even
wealthy individuals moving totown.
It may actually be Wall Street.
The average worker in Americaonly makes about $4,000 more a
year now than they did back in2000.
But in those same 20 years, theaverage American home price has
risen from an average cost of$168,000 up to a whopping
(02:50):
$424,000.
And in that same time, theaverage rent has gone from about
$600 a month to over $1,200 amonth.
Renters now make up a muchlarger share of the housing
market, and the average familyspends 40% of their income just
on housing alone.
Funds like BlackRock andVanguard, who both manage over a
(03:11):
trillion dollars in assets,have been buying up not just
apartment buildings andcomplexes, but single-family
(03:32):
homes and becoming multinationalconglomerate landlords.
According to the MetLifeInvestment Management, unless
laws are passed to restrictrent-seeking by these hedge
funds and private equity groups,who already have an outsized
control of US business,institutional investors may
control 40% of single-familyrental homes by 2030.
All right, in the debts column.
(03:52):
So I normally talk about theproblem of debt here in America,
either as a country or asindividuals, but today I also
want to point out what'shappening with debt
internationally.
So the global economy continuesto grapple with the lingering
effects of historically highinterest rates, particularly
impacting some of the world'spoorest countries.
This phenomenon is aconsequence of worldwide
(04:14):
tightening campaigns that appearto be concluding.
The aftermath is being keenlyfelt by low-income countries as
global interest rates surge,making it more challenging to
manage and pay off debt.
Drawing comparisons to the debtcrisis of the 1980s, the World
Bank's chief economist hasexpressed concerns about the
potential for these countries toface increasing difficulties if
(04:37):
interest rates remain elevated.
Over the past three years,there have been 18 sovereign
countries defaulting on theirloans, surpassing the total
defaults from the previous twodecades combined.
Notable countries include Ghana, zambia, sri Lanka and, with
Ethiopia potentially facing asimilar situation.
The ratio of external debt togross national income remains
(05:00):
historically high, particularlyfor the poorest nations, leading
to an even higher interestpayments for these poor,
exploited countries.
This trend is divertingresources away from essential
sectors such as education,health and infrastructure,
ultimately hindering economicgrowth and disproportionately
impacting vulnerable communities.
If you are trying to pay offyour own debt, I want to remind
(05:22):
you that the Mindful Marketplaceis providing all of our
listeners with a free,customized report on how to best
eliminate personal and businessdebt, based on your unique
situation.
Lots of families and businessesare using this report to
eliminate all of their debt,including mortgages, in nine
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So I am really excited andproud to announce that the
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plug into those live events.
All right, I am excited now toget to spend some time here with
(06:52):
Jen Hampton from the AshevilleFood and Beverage United.
Jen, thank you so much forjoining us on the show.
We're happy to have you.
Jen (07:00):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
This is a unique opportunity totalk about food and beverage
workers.
Joel (07:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm excited because I just sawthere was a new news article
about the work you're doing inthe Citizen Times.
There has been a lot ofmovement and kind of energy
around this recently, but Iguess I think it'd be good for
us to start out a little morebroadly.
You know, a lot of us know thatour economy has we've heard
(07:29):
this all the time right that oureconomy has moved from a
manufacturing economy to aservice worker economy and more
and more people in the workforceare doing service work jobs.
I'm wondering have you doneservice work yourself?
How did this become a passionfor you?
Jen (07:48):
Oh yeah, I have worked in the service industry for 31
years, 17 of those years righthere in Asheville in various
restaurants and cafes, so I havea lot of experience.
Up until just earlier this year, working in restaurants and
cafes and it became a passionfor me because basically during
(08:12):
the pandemic, I started seeingthat all of the issues I had
internalized as my own fault youknow, I had made this decision
or that choice or you knowwhatever that led to low wages
and no health care and all thatstuff.
I thought that was all my fault.
But when I started talking toother workers I realized that it
was systemic and that we wereall facing these issues and that
(08:34):
really fired me up to want todo something about it.
Joel (08:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
What is it like, for I mean,you've been in that industry for
so long what is it actuallylike day to day when it comes to
either the work that's beingdone, the way that you know you
kind of interact with yourbosses, or your clients and
customers, or, I guess you know,on the we can get into the pay
side of things.
There's a lot of things wecould talk about, but I guess
(08:59):
you know what stands out to youas most kind of indicative of
the experience of working in theservice industry.
Jen (09:07):
You know I've thought a lot about that, so I'm glad you
asked me that question.
There's this really strong tiein the community of, especially,
you know, food service workersand other like retail and stuff
where you deal with customersbecause something happens in.
You know the interactions withpeople when it's a customer and
(09:28):
service provider.
You know interaction and we getto see, as service workers, a
different side of people.
You know, we get to see them intheir downtime, when they're
not in their professionalsetting, you know, and it's just
really interesting kind ofinsight and perspective on a
different side of society.
(09:50):
Basically, and since we alldeal with it, you know there's a
sense of camaraderie, like youknow we've been in the
battlefield together becausewe've seen some stuff, we've
heard some stuff and you knowit's just like wow, you know,
and so we you don't reallyunderstand it unless you've been
through it and you know it'sjust it really fosters a sense
(10:11):
of community.
Yeah, I would say that that'sthe biggest thing that stands
out to me and it also depends on, like where and what your
customer base is and you want tohave, like genuine interactions
with customers.
But you have to put up thiswall, you have to put on this
face.
You know your customer serviceface, your customer service
(10:33):
voice, because so much of yourpersonality and the way you
present yourself, especially forpeople who get tips, you know
you're dependent on peopleresponding well to those
interactions for your living,you know.
So it's also that kind of powerdynamic where you understand
that they have the power thecustomer does, because if
(10:55):
they're not happy with theservice you provide, or you know
the smiles that you give, thenyou don't get paid.
Joel (11:01):
Basically, yeah, I was only in restaurants for maybe
six, eight months, but Idefinitely remember that being
the case and I remember a goodfriend and mentor of mine later
in life who came from he startedas a bus boy, worked his way up
to GM of a you know of acorporate chain, and I remember
he said that it always felt like, um, that in that work you are
(11:24):
kind of the front line and youare working with people who a
lot of times they sort of feelhopeless and powerless sometimes
in their own lives and theyfeel like they've maybe been
sort of talked down to ortreated poorly in a certain way
by either their boss or bysomething else.
And so he's like you'reinteracting with the people the
one time where they kind of feellike they have a little bit of
power, and you know, and so healways, just, you know,
(11:49):
suggested that we keep that inmind in doing the work we had on
Amanda Claypool back lastsummer and she had a fascinating
story where she went ahead andshe actually took a job.
She's a writer and a consultantand she had heard so much about
this talk, about, you know, thelack of workers, lack of workers
(12:11):
, that there was a laborshortage and so she wanted to
find out kind of what it wasabout and she went ahead and
took a job waiting tables atWaffle House.
She said it could have been anycorporate chain you could have
she could have taken.
It would have been about thesame experience, but that was
where she ended up.
But that was where she ended upand she talked about just the
(12:33):
economics and kind of just howmuch she really broke down the
details of what it actuallycosts to be a worker and what it
costs to work for tips.
Could you speak a little bitabout that, about the experience
of service workers and who arefull-time doing this as their
full-time work but are workingbased on that tipped income?
Jen (12:54):
Yeah, it can be taxing emotionally because you're
always having to present thisfake self, you know, and just
kind of take whatever people sayto you and just kind of let it
try to wash over you because youcan't react, you know.
So you do have to just keep asmile on and just internalize
(13:15):
those things.
So it can be really stressful.
I remember thinking many timesthat it just didn't feel good to
be selling my smiles.
Basically, and after my lastjob working in Biltmore Village
at a bakery there, or my lastfront of the house job, I should
say I just vowed that Icouldn't deal with it anymore.
(13:36):
It was just too much.
And the stress of it is is thatyou never know, even if you give
your best service to people,they may not tip, you know, or
they may not tip adequately, andyou can end up having to
actually pay to be serving them,because if they don't tip you
at least 20%, then you're stillgetting taxed on what 20% of
(13:58):
your sales would be.
So you're actually losing moneysometimes.
So it was just a constantstruggle, you know.
And then if you don't gettipped, well, you know, I would
internalize it and feel like Iwas a bad person, that I wasn't
nice enough, that I didsomething wrong, and you know
just that that really stands outto me is what affected me the
most as a front of the housetipped worker was just having to
(14:22):
rely on on that system as mysource of income and feeling
pretty powerless for that reason.
Joel (14:29):
Yeah, because tipped workers, in most states at least
, and that's changing here andthere.
I just saw that the city ofChicago changed their tipped
worker minimum wage to $15.
I've seen that happening hereand there, but in a lot of
states we think of people makingan income, but what they're
(14:52):
actually getting paid from therestaurant a lot of times is
just a couple dollars an hour.
Is that right?
Jen (14:58):
Yep, that's absolutely right.
When I first started working asa waitress, as we called them
back then in 1992, I was making$2.03 an hour, and now people
are making $2.13 an hour 30years later.
So it hasn't really changed,you know, in any substantial way
.
And many times you don't evenget a paycheck because all of
(15:23):
that money goes to taxes.
I've even gotten a negativepaycheck at times where you know
I would owe the company moneybecause of the taxes that I had
to pay on my tips.
Joel (15:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I guess it kind ofbaffles me sometimes the way
that we think about certaintypes of work as being more
worthy of a living wage thanothers.
You know, like David Graeber,the anthropologist and he wrote
this book that I love calledDebt the First 5,000 Years kind
(15:58):
of points this out where he saysthat you know, we often think
about creating new things,production of something, as
something that's real work, butthat the service work is not
real work.
But he says, really, if youthink about it, you only have to
make a glass or make a cup once, but it has to be washed
(16:20):
thousands and thousands of times, and that's really where the
real work is.
I'm curious your perspective onthe nature of service work and
the dignity of it.
Jen (16:34):
Yeah, excellent.
So since the very beginning offorming Asheville Food and
Beverage United, a drivingfactor for me has been how many
times I've heard people say well, if you don't like it, then get
a better job.
You know, and that's justinfuriating because how dare you
?
You know, we work really hard.
(16:55):
Service work is really hard.
It's physically demanding, it'semotionally stressful and it's
has been historically completelyundervalued.
And I feel like you know,especially like servers, like
front of the house, that tippedworkers and stuff.
I feel like you know,especially like servers like
front of the house, that tippedworkers and stuff.
I feel like that really tiesgoes way back to jim crow era.
You know, when, um, that's whenthe really the tipped culture
(17:20):
started and that was a way forpeople to employers to employ,
um black workers and not have topay them.
You know.
So that's where those lawsreally originated.
And I feel like and then youknow there was a time where it
was like, well, it was the onlykind of job that a single mother
could get.
Or you know, um a divorcedwoman, oh well, she's going to
(17:41):
have to go wait tables, and thatstigma has just been attached,
you know, and I feel like thatreally changed during the
pandemic because suddenly weweren't there to serve people
and people really started tomiss us and understand that we
do provide a value.
And not only did customers, Ifeel like, start to appreciate
us more, but our bosses did too.
(18:04):
Because I know during thepandemic I was working at a
restaurant and we had to cut waydown on staffing and one of the
owners actually stepped in andstarted serving tables and
helping out in the kitchen andshe was shocked because she'd
never done that in her lifebefore and you know, since then
she really appreciated what thefront of the house especially
(18:25):
was going through.
And I've seen that shift in alot of employers, thankfully,
and in a lot of customers.
You know they they have a senseof what they were missing, I
guess, whenever we couldn'tprovide them that service.
So it hasn't maybe completelyshifted, but I am optimistic
that it is shifting and thatpeople are starting to recognize
that service work is real workand that all workers you know if
(18:50):
you put in a full hour, a fullweek's worth of work, you should
be able to live on that, youknow, because you've contributed
to society and filled a needthere.
So why shouldn't you be able tolive just like everybody else.
Joel (19:04):
Yeah, exactly In the second part of this episode we
are doing a two-part episode forthe listeners.
Here we're going to get into alot more about what exactly
Asheville Food and BeverageUnited is, what your goals are
and how you guys are going aboutthat.
But with the last few minuteswe've got here, I am curious how
(19:24):
you've seen things change sofar since the pandemic.
Obviously that was a prettydisruptive event, I guess.
How has service work changedfor the people, for yourself and
for the people that you areconnected with since then?
Jen (19:39):
Well, I would say there's a few things.
The first thing that popped inmy mind was the old phrase the
customer is always right.
That changed during thepandemic.
Customers started behaving verybadly the ones who were coming
out to eat and stuff and I feellike a lot of owners and I know
most service workers haveshifted our mentality to no, the
(20:00):
customer is not always rightand we're allowed to take up for
ourselves and maintain ourdignity at work.
So I feel like that's been amajor shift.
You know, I'm not saying we'renot not trying to be nice and,
you know, congenial and stuff,but if people mistreat us, we're
allowed to stand up forourselves now and I feel like
more people feel empowered to doso and not put up with it.
(20:21):
So that's been a hugetransformation since the
pandemic.
And then also, like I would saylike the way that people work
has changed, because there was alot, there was a staffing
shortage, because a lot ofpeople either left the area or
left the industry altogether.
You know, got educations thatallowed them to, you know,
(20:43):
transfer to a different industry.
So we did lose a lot of workersin this industry and we had to
start figuring out ways tostreamline our work.
So I feel like a lot of justthe day to day logistics of how
service workers do their jobshas changed a lot.
There's been a lot of cut downon wasteful things like, you
(21:06):
know, overpackaging or you know,just providing more stuff than
you really need to.
I was trying to come up with aconcrete example of that
concrete example of that, butyou know, just it's.
There's been a lot of like costsaving measures and work saving
measures and just things thatmake your life a little easier
for less staff.
So I feel like that's been abig improvement for sure.
Joel (21:28):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's funny.
You mentioned the the thecustomer's always right motto
and we all know that.
That that line.
But what we don't know isactually the full phrase where
it originates.
It was originally in matters oftaste.
The customer is always right,so it was actually originally
meant to be like hey, if you'reselling something that people
(21:49):
don't like, they're not going tobuy it.
And it has kind of morphed intothis weird.
If you're working withcustomers, then you have to
kowtow to everything they sayand you know, kind of weird this
weird power dynamic thing, andso it's funny that that's not
even what the original phraseeven meant in the slightest, but
so this is as I said, this is atwo-part episode.
(22:10):
Please tune in back next weekhere, same time here on Biz
Radio US to get to listen to thesecond half, where we're going
to really deep dive intoAsheville, food and Beverage
United with Jen Hampton here,and make sure to subscribe on
YouTube.
Now.
We are now video on YouTube,but also to us on iTunes,
spotify, iheartradio, stitcher,buzzsprout, wherever it is that
(22:35):
you get your podcasts and followus along, and if you can give
us a rating or review, thatalways helps, of course.
So tune in next time and pleasetake care of yourself.
And until next time, rememberwe are each other.
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