September 2, 2025 • 15 mins
Christine and Tammy celebrate the launch of Season 5 of The Minimalist Educator podcast by previewing their engaging lineup of education experts and thought leaders who share insights on streamlining work and preserving wellbeing!
• Ming Shelby returns to discuss the transformative power of positivity in difficult conversations
• Dr. Monica Burns returns to explores ethical AI use as an assistant rather than replacement for teachers
• Craig Randal introduces his trust-based observation framework that simplifies teacher evaluations
• Steven Puri shares productivity techniques from his Hollywood experience that help educators find flow
• John Spencer offers practical approaches to increasing student agency and engagement
• Each conversation centers on minimalist principles: simplifying processes, clarifying priorities, and finding greater purpose
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z Education Services: forward-thinking educator support. Find out more at planzeducations.com. If today's episode helped you rethink, reimagine, reduce or realign something in your practice, share it in a comment or with a colleague.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on a less ismore approach to education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your School
Leadership.
Edit a minimalist approach torethinking your school ecosystem
each week as they explorepractical ways to simplify your
(00:37):
work, sharpen your focus andamplify what matters most so you
can teach and lead with greaterclarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Welcome, Tammy.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I'm great, I'm really excited that we are kicking off
season five, which is very wildto me, that we are still well,
I shouldn't be surprised thatwe're still talking about this,
but just with you know, we keepfinding these amazing guests to
come on.
We have so many things to talkabout, and so it's really
(01:20):
exciting, I think, for us tojust be kicking the season off
with another set of reallyinteresting educators and
non-educators.
We have someone new that poppedinto our season this year.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Absolutely, and I feel like every single guest
we've had, we want them back onfor a second go.
Don't you think the shortconversation has not been enough
?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
we want more yeah, and I think I I think it's
important that we do stick toour you know kind of 30 minute
podcast.
Um, just because this is youknow kind of what we preach,
like bite-sized chunk your stuff, and it's important to us to
have that 20 to 30 minuteconversation with people.
But I do love that we have hadlast season we had some guests
(02:10):
as repeat visitors to have apart, to kind of catch up on you
know what they've been doingsince the last conversation or
the previous conversation we hadwith them.
And so, yeah, I'm pretty surethat all of the guests from this
season would be happy to comeback, because there was
definitely so much more to talkabout and we had quite a range
(02:32):
of topics again, but all relatedto streamlining or prioritizing
, finding systems that work, howto make our work better, more
efficient and, you know, try topreserve ourselves in the
process.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
A hundred percent.
No, we're very lucky to be ableto get to have these
conversations with all theseincredible thinkers and
educators.
It's very, very special.
I want to start with talkingabout our number two
conversation with Ming Shelby.
Always a pleasure to have Mingon the podcast.
(03:11):
She was really building on thatprevious conversation that we
had in past seasons about thepower of positivity and how that
can really be transformationalin the work that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, and she's one of those just really ideal
people for that work, becauseshe is very I think I might've
called her sunshiny or something, but she's just, she exudes
that and, and so even though sheyou know she gave us an example
of a challenging conversationthat she had she does, she does
(03:50):
these things that don't make itfeel gross or icky or stressful,
and I think that's something wecan really learn from, because
in our roles we do havedifficult conversations and it's
hard to approach them sometimes, but if we put things in a
positive perspective orstrengths-based or with a little
(04:11):
bit of humor, it can bring downthe stress for both the person
bringing up the conversation andthe person receiving it.
So, yeah, she's just such agreat person to talk to and
listen to and how to frameconversations.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
A hundred percent.
Oh yeah, monica Burns isanother repeat as well, back
from season one, coming backagain in season five.
Such a relevant, timelyconversation as well.
Like really starting to thinkabout how we can use AI to
lessen our workload, to help usout, but also to think, you know
(04:52):
, about that ethical use and howcan we tread carefully with
what we're doing around AI.
Such a great, timelyconversation.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, she was one of our very first guests, maybe
even the very first one we had.
So episode four or five isepisode 81 this season.
So we've talked to lots ofpeople.
You know talked a little bitabout AI in different
conversations, but she is reallyshe's been at the forefront of
ed tech for quite a long timeand so I mean we did talk a
(05:23):
little bit about AI when wefirst talked with her.
But the idea that you know, aican be scary but it doesn't have
to be and we can really use ouradvantage as, like, an
assistant to just help us withtasks and help us to prioritize
or help us to get a thoughtprocess going or something, and
(05:46):
then you know, just be openingopen about how we are using it.
It doesn't have to be, you know, something that we hide or
something that's unethicalbecause we're not using it to
like, do stuff for us.
It's as a support and I thinkif we think about it that way on
the broader scale, it feelsless scary for teachers
(06:09):
especially, who you know areworried about students
potentially plagiarizing or youknow whatever.
But there's there isn't anyresearch showing that that's the
case.
So you know that's a positivefrom that, and we just have to
learn as it grows, you know butI think it's quite interesting
as well.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
As you said, we we did talk to her in the first
season, which was back in 2023,right, and so just thinking
about how much it has grown andchanged between our first
conversation and thisconversation in this season is
quite remarkable.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, yeah for sure, yeah, always good to talk to her
.
Yeah, always good to talk toher.
(07:10):
I really enjoyed talking tosomeone who is out of our
network but reached out andwanted to chat about their work
with trust-based observations.
That was Craig Randattle.
Really interesting and just, Ithink, one of those elements of
education that can be overlooked, right, because we're talking
about observations.
They happen in, you know, mostschools, almost all schools, but
the approaches, the feelings,the trust is all it's very
(07:30):
different, and so this approachfor trust-based observations was
really enlightening and it justmade me really wish and hope
for schools to adopt somethinglike it or, you know, reach out
to him or something, because youreally can streamline an
(07:52):
observation or evaluation cycle.
Right, it doesn't have to becomplicated, it doesn't have to
take the six hours that usuallyit takes to do that whole
process with a teacher.
It would be lovely to spend,you know, as a school leader, to
spend all that time with oneindividual, but we know it's not
realistic in most schoolsunless you're teeny, tiny.
(08:15):
But yeah, that was reallyreally interesting to talk to
him, so that that conversationstood out for me.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And it just when he was talking to us, it just made
so much sense, didn't it?
You know, because there's somany frameworks and ideas out
there that are, you know.
You know, because there's somany frameworks and ideas out
there that are, you know, howcan we improve teacher
effectiveness or professionalismor, you know, encourage growth.
Some of them are evaluative,some of them are a bit
judgmental, some of them areself-reflective.
(08:47):
But when he was talking, andjust that simple idea of like
humans are going to respond iftrust is extended to them first,
it's like, well, of course, ofcourse, it just, it all just
makes so much more sense it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
It's so logical.
But why do we work againstlogic?
It's so strange and it happensall the time, but and you know,
it's sometimes the parameters ofour systems.
Well, it usually is, but yeah,it just it was so logical and so
refreshing to just talk about.
You know, he was a schoolleader, so he lived it and he's
(09:25):
like this is what we have to do.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So yeah, that's great , definitely.
Also really enjoyed theconversation with Stephen Puri
Again, a little bit differentconversation for us, someone
who's not in education but hasdone a lot of thinking around
being productive and how we canbe efficient, how we can get in
(09:49):
that flow state to really getthe most out of our time.
Um, fascinating conversation,wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
yeah, he was really fun to talk to, um, just because
his experience is so differentfrom ours, you know, coming from
working hollywood behind thescenes on bigger movies and but
seeing the parallels to reallife, and it was easy to see the
connection between the workhe's done there and what we try
(10:21):
to do in schools or asconsultants, people running
their own businesses.
There needs to be some kind ofsystem for all of us to be able
to be, you know, not necessarilylike the overachieving
productivity masters thatsometimes, you know, we, we like
(10:41):
, go crazy with things, but justlike he's got a simple tool
that he talks about that justhelps you kind of manage your
time and your tasks and projects.
And it may, again, it makessense.
But we work against the grain alot of the times because we
want to be, we want to be extra.
But yeah, he was for sure, yeah, and I mean we've had a few
(11:10):
more guests for sure.
But another person who I haveadmired from afar for a number
of years was John Spencer, whodoes a lot of work around
student engagement, deeplearning, inquiry processes, and
(11:30):
so I had read his books, or onethat I don't know if his first,
his first book, but his bookempower several years ago, and
I'm like, oh yeah, man, this guyspeaks my language and I love
the videos he creates forteachers to just kind of explain
how to do things that sometimesteachers are afraid to do.
You know like it's hard forteachers to like let go of
(11:52):
responsibility, so how do youshift that to let students do it
, let them have more agency, andthat's really like his
wheelhouse, and so he just makesthese like really engaging
videos short ones but reallyhelpful to kind of break down
that process.
And then again you know you'relike, oh yeah, okay, is that all
I have to do, or is this theway I need to think about it?
(12:13):
That's super helpful.
You're like, oh yeah, okay, isthat all I have to do, or is
this the way I need to thinkabout it?
That's super helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So I enjoyed talking to him as well, because he's
someone I've admired from afarfor quite a long time,
absolutely, and I feel like Ineed to go and get his whole
back catalog of books and justdevour all of them.
It's got a lot of good thingspacked in those pages, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
A lot, and his videos as well, and his emails, and
you know all the things that hecreates, all the things.
So, like, all the stuff isthere.
Yeah, we I mean we could talkabout all of the guests we've
had for this season, but I feellike, is that a good snapshot
for?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
folks.
I think it's enough of a tasterso that they know what's coming
, what to look out for, what toget excited about.
We have been really lucky thisseason with our fantastic guests
, so I'm really excited foreveryone to listen in and get on
board and also to have all ofthe guests back again as well,
(13:16):
so we can keep talking to them.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
yes, we'll be having, um, you know, season 25 and
we'll have, like we'll still betalking to our people, asking
them back to talk more aboutsomething, because we have quite
a lineup still, you know, forfuture seasons and, of course,
like, if people have requestsfor us to chat with, we're happy
to take requests.
You can just send an email tous or, you know, comment
(13:41):
wherever.
And, yeah, we don't mindreaching out to people to ask
them just for a little bit oftheir time so we can talk about
something that's reallyimportant in education,
absolutely.
So you're geared up for seasonfive.
We hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(14:33):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
No-transcript.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on a less ismore approach to education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your School
Leadership.
Edit a minimalist approach torethinking your school ecosystem
each week as they explorepractical ways to simplify your
(00:37):
work, sharpen your focus andamplify what matters most so you
can teach and lead with greaterclarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Welcome, Tammy.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I'm great, I'm really excited that we are kicking off
season five, which is very wildto me, that we are still well,
I shouldn't be surprised thatwe're still talking about this,
but just with you know, we keepfinding these amazing guests to
come on.
We have so many things to talkabout, and so it's really
(01:20):
exciting, I think, for us tojust be kicking the season off
with another set of reallyinteresting educators and
non-educators.
We have someone new that poppedinto our season this year.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Absolutely, and I feel like every single guest
we've had, we want them back onfor a second go.
Don't you think the shortconversation has not been enough
?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
we want more yeah, and I think I I think it's
important that we do stick toour you know kind of 30 minute
podcast.
Um, just because this is youknow kind of what we preach,
like bite-sized chunk your stuff, and it's important to us to
have that 20 to 30 minuteconversation with people.
But I do love that we have hadlast season we had some guests
(02:10):
as repeat visitors to have apart, to kind of catch up on you
know what they've been doingsince the last conversation or
the previous conversation we hadwith them.
And so, yeah, I'm pretty surethat all of the guests from this
season would be happy to comeback, because there was
definitely so much more to talkabout and we had quite a range
(02:32):
of topics again, but all relatedto streamlining or prioritizing
, finding systems that work, howto make our work better, more
efficient and, you know, try topreserve ourselves in the
process.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
A hundred percent.
No, we're very lucky to be ableto get to have these
conversations with all theseincredible thinkers and
educators.
It's very, very special.
I want to start with talkingabout our number two
conversation with Ming Shelby.
Always a pleasure to have Mingon the podcast.
(03:11):
She was really building on thatprevious conversation that we
had in past seasons about thepower of positivity and how that
can really be transformationalin the work that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, and she's one of those just really ideal
people for that work, becauseshe is very I think I might've
called her sunshiny or something, but she's just, she exudes
that and, and so even though sheyou know she gave us an example
of a challenging conversationthat she had she does, she does
(03:50):
these things that don't make itfeel gross or icky or stressful,
and I think that's something wecan really learn from, because
in our roles we do havedifficult conversations and it's
hard to approach them sometimes, but if we put things in a
positive perspective orstrengths-based or with a little
(04:11):
bit of humor, it can bring downthe stress for both the person
bringing up the conversation andthe person receiving it.
So, yeah, she's just such agreat person to talk to and
listen to and how to frameconversations.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
A hundred percent.
Oh yeah, monica Burns isanother repeat as well, back
from season one, coming backagain in season five.
Such a relevant, timelyconversation as well.
Like really starting to thinkabout how we can use AI to
lessen our workload, to help usout, but also to think, you know
(04:52):
, about that ethical use and howcan we tread carefully with
what we're doing around AI.
Such a great, timelyconversation.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, she was one of our very first guests, maybe
even the very first one we had.
So episode four or five isepisode 81 this season.
So we've talked to lots ofpeople.
You know talked a little bitabout AI in different
conversations, but she is reallyshe's been at the forefront of
ed tech for quite a long timeand so I mean we did talk a
(05:23):
little bit about AI when wefirst talked with her.
But the idea that you know, aican be scary but it doesn't have
to be and we can really use ouradvantage as, like, an
assistant to just help us withtasks and help us to prioritize
or help us to get a thoughtprocess going or something, and
(05:46):
then you know, just be openingopen about how we are using it.
It doesn't have to be, you know, something that we hide or
something that's unethicalbecause we're not using it to
like, do stuff for us.
It's as a support and I thinkif we think about it that way on
the broader scale, it feelsless scary for teachers
(06:09):
especially, who you know areworried about students
potentially plagiarizing or youknow whatever.
But there's there isn't anyresearch showing that that's the
case.
So you know that's a positivefrom that, and we just have to
learn as it grows, you know butI think it's quite interesting
as well.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
As you said, we we did talk to her in the first
season, which was back in 2023,right, and so just thinking
about how much it has grown andchanged between our first
conversation and thisconversation in this season is
quite remarkable.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, yeah for sure, yeah, always good to talk to her
.
Yeah, always good to talk toher.
(07:10):
I really enjoyed talking tosomeone who is out of our
network but reached out andwanted to chat about their work
with trust-based observations.
That was Craig Randattle.
Really interesting and just, Ithink, one of those elements of
education that can be overlooked, right, because we're talking
about observations.
They happen in, you know, mostschools, almost all schools, but
the approaches, the feelings,the trust is all it's very
(07:30):
different, and so this approachfor trust-based observations was
really enlightening and it justmade me really wish and hope
for schools to adopt somethinglike it or, you know, reach out
to him or something, because youreally can streamline an
(07:52):
observation or evaluation cycle.
Right, it doesn't have to becomplicated, it doesn't have to
take the six hours that usuallyit takes to do that whole
process with a teacher.
It would be lovely to spend,you know, as a school leader, to
spend all that time with oneindividual, but we know it's not
realistic in most schoolsunless you're teeny, tiny.
(08:15):
But yeah, that was reallyreally interesting to talk to
him, so that that conversationstood out for me.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And it just when he was talking to us, it just made
so much sense, didn't it?
You know, because there's somany frameworks and ideas out
there that are, you know.
You know, because there's somany frameworks and ideas out
there that are, you know, howcan we improve teacher
effectiveness or professionalismor, you know, encourage growth.
Some of them are evaluative,some of them are a bit
judgmental, some of them areself-reflective.
(08:47):
But when he was talking, andjust that simple idea of like
humans are going to respond iftrust is extended to them first,
it's like, well, of course, ofcourse, it just, it all just
makes so much more sense it.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
It's so logical.
But why do we work againstlogic?
It's so strange and it happensall the time, but and you know,
it's sometimes the parameters ofour systems.
Well, it usually is, but yeah,it just it was so logical and so
refreshing to just talk about.
You know, he was a schoolleader, so he lived it and he's
(09:25):
like this is what we have to do.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So yeah, that's great , definitely.
Also really enjoyed theconversation with Stephen Puri
Again, a little bit differentconversation for us, someone
who's not in education but hasdone a lot of thinking around
being productive and how we canbe efficient, how we can get in
(09:49):
that flow state to really getthe most out of our time.
Um, fascinating conversation,wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
yeah, he was really fun to talk to, um, just because
his experience is so differentfrom ours, you know, coming from
working hollywood behind thescenes on bigger movies and but
seeing the parallels to reallife, and it was easy to see the
connection between the workhe's done there and what we try
(10:21):
to do in schools or asconsultants, people running
their own businesses.
There needs to be some kind ofsystem for all of us to be able
to be, you know, not necessarilylike the overachieving
productivity masters thatsometimes, you know, we, we like
(10:41):
, go crazy with things, but justlike he's got a simple tool
that he talks about that justhelps you kind of manage your
time and your tasks and projects.
And it may, again, it makessense.
But we work against the grain alot of the times because we
want to be, we want to be extra.
But yeah, he was for sure, yeah, and I mean we've had a few
(11:10):
more guests for sure.
But another person who I haveadmired from afar for a number
of years was John Spencer, whodoes a lot of work around
student engagement, deeplearning, inquiry processes, and
(11:30):
so I had read his books, or onethat I don't know if his first,
his first book, but his bookempower several years ago, and
I'm like, oh yeah, man, this guyspeaks my language and I love
the videos he creates forteachers to just kind of explain
how to do things that sometimesteachers are afraid to do.
You know like it's hard forteachers to like let go of
(11:52):
responsibility, so how do youshift that to let students do it
, let them have more agency, andthat's really like his
wheelhouse, and so he just makesthese like really engaging
videos short ones but reallyhelpful to kind of break down
that process.
And then again you know you'relike, oh yeah, okay, is that all
I have to do, or is this theway I need to think about it?
(12:13):
That's super helpful.
You're like, oh yeah, okay, isthat all I have to do, or is
this the way I need to thinkabout it?
That's super helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So I enjoyed talking to him as well, because he's
someone I've admired from afarfor quite a long time,
absolutely, and I feel like Ineed to go and get his whole
back catalog of books and justdevour all of them.
It's got a lot of good thingspacked in those pages, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
A lot, and his videos as well, and his emails, and
you know all the things that hecreates, all the things.
So, like, all the stuff isthere.
Yeah, we I mean we could talkabout all of the guests we've
had for this season, but I feellike, is that a good snapshot
for?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
folks.
I think it's enough of a tasterso that they know what's coming
, what to look out for, what toget excited about.
We have been really lucky thisseason with our fantastic guests
, so I'm really excited foreveryone to listen in and get on
board and also to have all ofthe guests back again as well,
(13:16):
so we can keep talking to them.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
yes, we'll be having, um, you know, season 25 and
we'll have, like we'll still betalking to our people, asking
them back to talk more aboutsomething, because we have quite
a lineup still, you know, forfuture seasons and, of course,
like, if people have requestsfor us to chat with, we're happy
to take requests.
You can just send an email tous or, you know, comment
(13:41):
wherever.
And, yeah, we don't mindreaching out to people to ask
them just for a little bit oftheir time so we can talk about
something that's reallyimportant in education,
absolutely.
So you're geared up for seasonfive.
We hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(14:33):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
No-transcript.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.