January 30, 2024 • 22 mins
Ever feel burnt out or overwhelmed by the constant demands and clutter in your life? Imagine the joy of subtracting the unnecessary and stepping into a Zen space of clarity and calm. That's exactly what we explore with our guest Dan Tricarico, CEO of the Zen Professional and the Zen Teacher. Dantra’s book, 'The Zen Teacher', is a fascinating journey through his own burnout and how his game-changing techniques have evolved into workshops that help educators find balance and prevent burnout.
Open your mind to the liberating feeling of decluttering and creating time for self-reflection. Hear Dan’s inspiring story about transforming his classroom by breaking the task down into manageable sections over a month. A real masterstroke in proving that the practice of subtraction can be a powerful stress-buster. We also delve into the value of expanding our learning by listening to podcasters from various professions and applying their insights to education - a real treasure trove of knowledge awaits!
But it’s not all education-oriented. As we shift gears to discuss the cutthroat corporate world, Dan emphasizes the criticality of intentional self-care and personal space. His 'throw away 10 things a day' philosophy is a gem of practical advice towards creating that space. Plus, Dan throws light on how mindfulness can radically transform learning environments and significantly reduce stress levels. Join us in this enlightening exploration of how Zen practices can infuse peace, not just in classrooms, but in every sphere of our lives.
Dan Tricarico, CEO of The Zen Professional and The Zen Teacher, is a national speaker, author of three top stress management books, and creator of The Zen Professional 5-Step Blueprint for stress reduction, Tricarico now shares his expertise and insight by showing harried teachers how to thrive both inside and outside the workplace. He has been featured in Fast Company Magazine and has guested on many business and educational podcasts.
www.thezenprofessional.com
www.thezenteacher.com
Twitter (X): @thezenteacher
IG: @zenteacher
This epsiode is sponsored by The Zen Teacher: helping teachers reclaim control.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borniman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
In today's episode, dantra Karakou talks about his
pathway to the work he does nowwith Zen and mindfulness in our
professional lives.
We also discuss the importanceof subtraction.
Dantra Karakou, ceo of the ZenProfessional and the Zen Teacher
, is a national speaker, authorof three top stress management
(00:58):
books and creator of the ZenProfessional Five Step Blueprint
for Stress Reduction.
Trakkarakou now shares hisexpertise and insight by showing
Harried teachers how to thriveboth inside and outside the
workplace.
He has been featured in FastCompany Magazine and has guested
on many business andeducational podcasts.
Hi everyone, and welcome totoday's episode of the
(01:22):
Minimalist Educator.
We're very lucky today to haveDantra Karakou with us.
Welcome, dan.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Thanks for letting me be here.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes and everyone.
If you're recognizing thatvoice already, that is because
Dan is our intro and outrospeaker, so you will be very
familiar with his voice by now.
How are things been going, dan?
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Doing okay.
We were just talking a littlebit before we started recording
that I need to kind of take moreof my own advice and just take
some things out and, just likeyou all, preach.
You know, because it's been alittle bumpy.
But I'm learning that I justneed to subtract and minimize
and everything's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, it's easy to get caught up in things right.
Especially like you still teachand you know, teach the.
To me, the scary people arelike the second most scary
people, the high schoolers.
And so like that's a lot ofwork and getting like you're
still fairly new into yourschool year, aren't you?
Oh, no, sorry, you're prettyinto it because you started
(02:30):
mid-August right.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right, yeah, it's about seven weeks now, but you
know we had a scheduled changeand we've had some political
things going on, and so thisyear has been a little bumpy.
Last year was a dream and I itwas super smooth.
So and that's the in and yangof school, as you know.
I mean, some years are smoothand some years are less so.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And you know people listeningto this now they're gonna be
like but it's January orFebruary, but you know, such as
a recording schedule.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But, anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
so you're known for a few really important things in
the in the education world.
One of them is the Zen teacherbook.
Can you tell us how you cameabout feeling like you needed to
write about Zen and teaching,because they're kind of
different?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, and I thought they should kind of be
integrated, you know, as anapproach to dealing with things
like stress reduction andself-care and avoiding burnout.
And it all started about 2013,2014,.
Somewhere in there.
I just was facing massiveburnout and wondering if, how, I
(03:41):
was gonna make it to retirement.
And, you know, things were notgood at home in the marriage I
was in, and so it just thatwhole period was very bumpy and
I thought I have to do something.
And I started thinking back to Iwas a drama major and an actor
and I started thinking back tomy acting classes and the acting
teachers used to talk aboutbeing in the moment and
(04:05):
meditation and breathingexercises and relaxation
exercises, and they talked aboutsomething they called a relaxed
preparedness, meaning, as aperformer, you were relaxed but
you were ready to go.
You were calm but you wereready to perform.
And I thought, well, that'swhat teachers need, you know.
So I started a blog called theZen Teacher and it's funny.
(04:28):
I remember one day I was takinga walk around the neighborhood
just trying to calm down orwhatever, and I was, you know,
just debating in my head what amI gonna do?
How am I gonna get through allthis?
And I said gosh, it's almostlike they expect you to be a Zen
teacher or something.
And then I just stopped and thelight went on and I ran home
(04:48):
and the first thing I did wascheck to see if the domain name
was available, because that'sthe world we live in, and in
2014, the Zen teacher comm wasavailable and I thought well,
that's a sign from the universe.
This is my new path, you know.
So the blog became the book andthe book became workshops.
And here we are.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Also that's great, and we're talking like 10 years
ago.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, yeah, I think eight or nine, you know.
So, yeah, Heading into a decade, which is which is really crazy
to think.
And the great thing is that thegood news is I now know,
because of those Strategies thatI write about in the book, that
I'll make it to retirement.
I had 10 years.
Now I have two or three, youknow.
So I'm gonna make it.
And then the icing on the cakewas just the ability To have
(05:37):
other teachers come back to meand say you helped in your book.
Helped, I mean, what's betterthan that?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, that's awesome, that's fantastic, and so you
still find time for mindfulnessand Zen practices throughout
your week.
And what is?
Can you tell us a little bitabout what that looks like?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
sure, um I I think it's super critical and um I,
the first big mindset shift andI think maybe a lot of your
listeners need to think aboutthis too Is I thought, like many
people, I don't have time forthat, I'm too busy.
Right, and one of the things Ipreach is everybody has five
minutes and you know you don'tthink you have five minutes.
(06:19):
Stop scrolling, yeah and youhave five minutes, it's.
It's just mindless instead ofmindful to just be scrolling
with your thumb on that phone.
But if you just stop that, youhave the five minutes to listen
to a soothing song or call yourmom or, you know, pet your dog
or whatever it is.
It's going to calm you down andreduce that stress and bring
(06:42):
back that sense of centerednessand groundedness that's so
important, um, because we livein a society and a culture that
does not Value any of the thingsthat any of us here are talking
about, and so it has to be anintentional and conscious choice
.
And so for me, um I, I reallydo make it intentional.
(07:02):
Um, I I have little rituals ofSilence and stillness and
meditation.
I would not say I have a veryStructured meditation.
I I don't you know meditate for30 minutes every morning, as
some people do, which is great,but I'm the kind of person who,
when I'm driving and I hit a redlight, I take three deep
breaths and I resist thattemptation to grab for my phone.
(07:25):
Most or many times I won't evensay most of the time the first
impulse is always to grab thatphone, and fighting against that
is probably the hardest thing,but it's just finding times in
your day where you can take evenjust a few minutes to To
disconnect from the the rat race, the merry go round.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
That is our current culture uh, I definitely
appreciate looking at yoursocial media posts where you
because you're into photographytoo and I feel like that's a
nice way to just stay in themoment sometimes is, you know,
you, you are in the moment, butthen you capture this kind of
beautiful like blue sky or palmtrees or um Belboa park or
(08:07):
things like that.
It's just really we need toslow down, right we?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
need to slow down to like a pretty notice things yeah
yeah, I always say notice whatyou notice.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, it's very meta.
Yeah, it is very meta.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And the funny thing about the photography is it
really was a chicken and eggkind of situation, because I've
always loved photography andwhen I started doing it now
since the books came out andI've been doing workshops and
everything is I also realizedwhat a mindful activity it is.
In fact, I incorporated it intomy workshops and now I have the
people who are in the workshopstake their phones and for 15
(08:45):
minutes just go and takepictures of whatever they notice
and come back and talk about it.
So I don't know if I lovephotography because it's mindful
or I realized that it's mindfulbecause I do photography.
I don't know which one, but Ido.
I do love that for that reasonto me Exactly, it slows me down,
it allows me to notice what Inotice and to be in the moment.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Love that have you?
Have you had people talkingabout glimmers recently?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, and I was mad at them.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh really why.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You're talking about glimmers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, I'm talking about the opposite of triggers,
glimmers yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yes, because years ago I came up with something I
called pamper triggers, which isthe same thing as a glimmer,
and I wanted to hijack that wordtrigger because it was so
negative and I said, hey, whydon't we make this into a
positive?
And pamper triggers are thosethings to me that make you feel
taken care of, soothed andcomforted, and we all have them.
(09:40):
So I called them pampertriggers.
There's a chapter in thesanctuary's book called Pamper
Triggers, but glimmers is fine.
I'm just teasing about beingmad.
Whatever gets people to takecare of themselves, I'm down
with.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, whatever's in the conversation, right?
Yeah, it's definitelyworthwhile, exactly Worthwhile.
I just read a book calledSubtract and it's making me
think a lot about what you'retalking about, with Zen and
mindfulness and so on, but alittle bit more active in its
approach rather than just beinga passive moment.
(10:15):
It's more like activelythinking about what you can take
away.
Can you talk about?
Some of the parallels betweenwhat you've been working on and
that sort of thinking.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, I read that book and I was fascinated by
that book.
And one of the things and I'mjust going, this is not a
criticism, it's just a fact isI'm not a super big science guy
but there was a lot of science,which is great, because you want
empirical evidence to back upwhat you're saying.
But those parts were harder forme to wrap my brain around.
(10:48):
But I really loved the messageand I really loved the
strategies that author talkedabout.
I'll just tell you a quickstory is because I figured, as I
was thinking about being on theshow today, that this would
really fit into what we weretalking about is.
I had a little time today andso there was a.
(11:10):
I've been in this condo forabout two years and the people I
bought it from left this gianthumidifier and it's nice, you
know but it's just been sittinghere and I thought, well, maybe
I'll use it, or maybe I shouldsell it if I don't want it, or
maybe I'll give it to somebodyor whatever.
And it's just, I haven't usedit.
And so I put it outside with asign on it that said free to a
(11:33):
good home.
I don't even know if it's stillthere anymore.
I had a box of my daughter'scollege textbooks that I bought
off of her, thinking I wouldsell them on eBay.
The ones I put on there didn'tsell and I ran out of time and
so I put those out to see ifanybody wants those.
And now I have more space in mycondo and it's not a huge condo,
so it matters, you know, andit's just the idea of we can,
(11:57):
all, you know, it's we thinkit's overwhelming, it's
intimidating.
Oh, I can't tackle it, it's toobig, but it's really doing a
lot of little things over time,and it's the overtime part that
really makes a difference.
And so that was just a littlestory about you know how I
subtracted today and there'sjust a load off.
(12:19):
You know, when you kind of, youknow, get rid of all that
flotsam and jetsam that'shanging around you, there's a
freedom and a liberation and youfeel like you have more
breathing room, which is awesome.
And I, you know again, being anactor and a drama major, I was
a pack rat.
I was like, oh, this hat, thispair of glasses, this bow tie, I
might use it in a placesometime, it might be good for a
(12:41):
character.
So all this stuff just piled up, I'm not that guy anymore.
Now I like streamlined, simple,minimalist.
That's what I'm all about.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I think what you've said about overtime is really
powerful, because we do live inthis like immediacy time, right,
like everything is you get yourphone out and you can look
something up immediately, orlike just having immediate
gratification.
But it really is a process,right.
(13:14):
If you want to truly spend thetime to you know one thing at a
time out of your house, itdoesn't have to be that
immediate like I'm going to havethis gigantic garage sale,
which is a lot of preparation,by the way.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Right, like who has time for that?
But you know it's a lot of workto set all of that up.
But if you you know the nicething is we have Facebook
Marketplace or like differentthings, put it out on your curb
like you did.
It is helpful to think ofthings and this kind of goes
back to like what we were sayingabout slowing down If it
(13:49):
doesn't have to be fast andmaybe it should be, because when
things are fast we lose sightof things, right?
We've forgotten why we're doingsomething.
But if we allow ourselves totake some time and be reflective
about what we're doing and whywe're doing it, it's so helpful,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It's so helpful.
You're reminding me of.
I think it was when my daughterwas born.
She was born in August, so itwas right before we went back,
and I think I missed thepre-service days and I had to
hit the ground running, like onday one of the teaching, and so
I didn't get a chance to fix upmy room and what I did was I
(14:33):
divided it into sections and Isaid, okay, this week it's the
counter under the windows, nextweek it's the classroom, the
next week it's going to be myoffice area in the back, and by
three or four weeks, like you'resaying, it didn't have to be
fast, but then I was ready.
I mean, it only took four weeks, but that was what was
(14:56):
necessary at the time and that'sokay.
You do what you have to do.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, for sure, we really enjoy listening to your
podcasters and professional andI noticed that one of the things
I really enjoy about thepodcasters is that you talk to
people from lots of differentfields with lots of different
experiences.
So what do you think we canlearn from other professions to
help us in our world ofeducation?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
A great question.
And you know, it's so weirdbecause I think Tammy was kind
of saying this earlier, I can'tremember when we were recording
or not that there's no job likethis.
Teaching is a very uniqueposition.
I say I haven't worked in thereal world in 30 years.
I mean we're very sheltered andisolated in some ways.
(15:45):
But I started thinking about howwell everybody is, probably
especially in this post pandemicworld or quasi post pandemic
world.
Everybody is struggling withstress, everybody is struggling
with anxiety, everybody isstruggling with how am I going
to make this happen, how am Igoing to get this all done?
And we have to allow for thatand we have to fight against
(16:10):
that impulse.
And I think that in thecorporate world or the business
world, as Tammy says, thatimmediacy or that sense of
urgency is even more pressingthan it is in teaching and in
education.
For better or worse, andsometimes both, the education
pendulum moves really slowlylike glacier pace, right.
(16:33):
But if you think about I don'tknow, doctors or lawyers or
corporate magnet type people,they're on a schedule like it's
got to happen right now and thatcan increase the stress.
So I thought, well, I'm goingto broaden my message and kind
of fold those folks into andbring those people into my
(16:53):
message so that I can maybestart helping them as well.
You know, once the you know myplatform was established in the
education community, I had thebandwidths to do that and I've.
You know, teachers are alwaysin my heart.
I will always love teachers andwork with teachers, but I just
thought I wanted to includeother people because I thought
(17:13):
they were going through it too.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Here in the Netherlands we'vegot a policy where it's to
protect us but they try andcount how many minutes or hours
we work during the week, andI've never been, I've never seen
a situation like this before,and you know pros and cons that
may have.
It does make me think about theeffect on people who have
(17:39):
billable hours and you knownumber targets and things like
this that they, you know, needto have this many emails done or
this many clients reached outto, and I think it is something
that teachers might not alwaysrealize.
Other people are existing underthese measurements.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Exactly, exactly, and that, as I said and as you said
, it just creates a lot ofstress or can.
And I don't think.
Well, I think businesses arestarting to talk about employee
well-being, but, much like ineducation and you've both seen
this too there's a lot of talkabout self-care and well-being,
but then it's like, oh, but dothese 40 things while you're
(18:19):
taking care of yourself?
You know, yes, and it's kind ofyou know, oxymoronic, I guess
would be the fancy term.
You know, because you can't doit that way, and so that's why I
always say that it's our ownresponsibility to be intentional
about it.
Nobody else is going to do itfor us.
I say, you know, I can be reallytired and nobody's going to
(18:42):
come up to me and go.
You know what, danny, youprobably need a nap.
You know, I have to listen tothose signals.
It's not going to come fromsomewhere else, so we have to
agree, and it's going to rufflefeathers and people are going to
look at you funny, because theydon't get to do it or they
don't choose to do it and it'snot part of the system.
So you look subversive, youlook rebellious, which also is
(19:04):
kind of fun.
But you know, yeah, you know, soyou have to do it, and that's
been my mission is to tellpeople.
You know what it's.
Not only is it up to you to doit, but it's okay if you do it
and you should do it.
I always say that everything Italk about everybody knows.
They're just reminders, youknow, and mostly they were
(19:27):
reminders for me when I waswriting the blog and the book.
I just wanted to put it down sothat I could look at it later
and go, yeah, I need to do that,but what I didn't expect is
that's how it's working foreverybody else too.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah, giving us a lot to think about.
It's always great to like readyour work and listen to you.
Thank you, and your voice isalso very soothing, so that's
helpful People keep telling methat I don't feel that way.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Thank you, yeah, and thank you for speaking in my
voice, for letting me be yourintro and outro.
That's super special.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Thank you.
No, we appreciate it very much.
As we wrap up this episode withyou, we always ask our guests
for a pair down pointer or twofor our listeners.
So what would you give to ourlisteners today from today's
episode or?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
some of that in addition.
Oh well, I have an idea that Iwanted to share that I think is
related to what we were talkingabout earlier in the episode.
And sometimes I say, if you'reworking on minimizing things and
decluttering, throw away 10things a day.
And of course, when I say throwaway because it's easy but it
(20:42):
might be recycling or givingaway or donating or something
like that, but if you throw away10 things a day, everybody can
do that.
That takes 10 minutes, right.
But if you think about the math, after a week you've thrown
away 70 things.
That's a lot of things and itcreates some space.
(21:02):
And then the great thing andthis is what I will leave you
all with and leave you listenerswith is when you commit to
doing some of these things,you're going to realize how
wonderful it is and then you'regoing to want to do more.
So you don't have to start big,like we said, start small.
But I can almost guarantee thatwhen you start small and you do
it, you're going to love it.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Thank you Dan.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That's awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It was great to be here.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Thank you so much for your time today.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Today's episode was brought to you by the Zen
Teacher.
The Zen Teacher helps youcreate focus, simplicity and
tranquility by encouraging amore Zen-inspired mindful
approach in the classroom.
Find out more atthezenteachercom.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borniman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
In today's episode, dantra Karakou talks about his
pathway to the work he does nowwith Zen and mindfulness in our
professional lives.
We also discuss the importanceof subtraction.
Dantra Karakou, ceo of the ZenProfessional and the Zen Teacher
, is a national speaker, authorof three top stress management
(00:58):
books and creator of the ZenProfessional Five Step Blueprint
for Stress Reduction.
Trakkarakou now shares hisexpertise and insight by showing
Harried teachers how to thriveboth inside and outside the
workplace.
He has been featured in FastCompany Magazine and has guested
on many business andeducational podcasts.
Hi everyone, and welcome totoday's episode of the
(01:22):
Minimalist Educator.
We're very lucky today to haveDantra Karakou with us.
Welcome, dan.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Thanks for letting me be here.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes and everyone.
If you're recognizing thatvoice already, that is because
Dan is our intro and outrospeaker, so you will be very
familiar with his voice by now.
How are things been going, dan?
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Doing okay.
We were just talking a littlebit before we started recording
that I need to kind of take moreof my own advice and just take
some things out and, just likeyou all, preach.
You know, because it's been alittle bumpy.
But I'm learning that I justneed to subtract and minimize
and everything's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, it's easy to get caught up in things right.
Especially like you still teachand you know, teach the.
To me, the scary people arelike the second most scary
people, the high schoolers.
And so like that's a lot ofwork and getting like you're
still fairly new into yourschool year, aren't you?
Oh, no, sorry, you're prettyinto it because you started
(02:30):
mid-August right.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right, yeah, it's about seven weeks now, but you
know we had a scheduled changeand we've had some political
things going on, and so thisyear has been a little bumpy.
Last year was a dream and I itwas super smooth.
So and that's the in and yangof school, as you know.
I mean, some years are smoothand some years are less so.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And you know people listeningto this now they're gonna be
like but it's January orFebruary, but you know, such as
a recording schedule.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But, anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
so you're known for a few really important things in
the in the education world.
One of them is the Zen teacherbook.
Can you tell us how you cameabout feeling like you needed to
write about Zen and teaching,because they're kind of
different?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, and I thought they should kind of be
integrated, you know, as anapproach to dealing with things
like stress reduction andself-care and avoiding burnout.
And it all started about 2013,2014,.
Somewhere in there.
I just was facing massiveburnout and wondering if, how, I
(03:41):
was gonna make it to retirement.
And, you know, things were notgood at home in the marriage I
was in, and so it just thatwhole period was very bumpy and
I thought I have to do something.
And I started thinking back to Iwas a drama major and an actor
and I started thinking back tomy acting classes and the acting
teachers used to talk aboutbeing in the moment and
(04:05):
meditation and breathingexercises and relaxation
exercises, and they talked aboutsomething they called a relaxed
preparedness, meaning, as aperformer, you were relaxed but
you were ready to go.
You were calm but you wereready to perform.
And I thought, well, that'swhat teachers need, you know.
So I started a blog called theZen Teacher and it's funny.
(04:28):
I remember one day I was takinga walk around the neighborhood
just trying to calm down orwhatever, and I was, you know,
just debating in my head what amI gonna do?
How am I gonna get through allthis?
And I said gosh, it's almostlike they expect you to be a Zen
teacher or something.
And then I just stopped and thelight went on and I ran home
(04:48):
and the first thing I did wascheck to see if the domain name
was available, because that'sthe world we live in, and in
2014, the Zen teacher comm wasavailable and I thought well,
that's a sign from the universe.
This is my new path, you know.
So the blog became the book andthe book became workshops.
And here we are.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Also that's great, and we're talking like 10 years
ago.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, yeah, I think eight or nine, you know.
So, yeah, Heading into a decade, which is which is really crazy
to think.
And the great thing is that thegood news is I now know,
because of those Strategies thatI write about in the book, that
I'll make it to retirement.
I had 10 years.
Now I have two or three, youknow.
So I'm gonna make it.
And then the icing on the cakewas just the ability To have
(05:37):
other teachers come back to meand say you helped in your book.
Helped, I mean, what's betterthan that?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, that's awesome, that's fantastic, and so you
still find time for mindfulnessand Zen practices throughout
your week.
And what is?
Can you tell us a little bitabout what that looks like?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
sure, um I I think it's super critical and um I,
the first big mindset shift andI think maybe a lot of your
listeners need to think aboutthis too Is I thought, like many
people, I don't have time forthat, I'm too busy.
Right, and one of the things Ipreach is everybody has five
minutes and you know you don'tthink you have five minutes.
(06:19):
Stop scrolling, yeah and youhave five minutes, it's.
It's just mindless instead ofmindful to just be scrolling
with your thumb on that phone.
But if you just stop that, youhave the five minutes to listen
to a soothing song or call yourmom or, you know, pet your dog
or whatever it is.
It's going to calm you down andreduce that stress and bring
(06:42):
back that sense of centerednessand groundedness that's so
important, um, because we livein a society and a culture that
does not Value any of the thingsthat any of us here are talking
about, and so it has to be anintentional and conscious choice
.
And so for me, um I, I reallydo make it intentional.
(07:02):
Um, I I have little rituals ofSilence and stillness and
meditation.
I would not say I have a veryStructured meditation.
I I don't you know meditate for30 minutes every morning, as
some people do, which is great,but I'm the kind of person who,
when I'm driving and I hit a redlight, I take three deep
breaths and I resist thattemptation to grab for my phone.
(07:25):
Most or many times I won't evensay most of the time the first
impulse is always to grab thatphone, and fighting against that
is probably the hardest thing,but it's just finding times in
your day where you can take evenjust a few minutes to To
disconnect from the the rat race, the merry go round.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
That is our current culture uh, I definitely
appreciate looking at yoursocial media posts where you
because you're into photographytoo and I feel like that's a
nice way to just stay in themoment sometimes is, you know,
you, you are in the moment, butthen you capture this kind of
beautiful like blue sky or palmtrees or um Belboa park or
(08:07):
things like that.
It's just really we need toslow down, right we?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
need to slow down to like a pretty notice things yeah
yeah, I always say notice whatyou notice.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, it's very meta.
Yeah, it is very meta.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And the funny thing about the photography is it
really was a chicken and eggkind of situation, because I've
always loved photography andwhen I started doing it now
since the books came out andI've been doing workshops and
everything is I also realizedwhat a mindful activity it is.
In fact, I incorporated it intomy workshops and now I have the
people who are in the workshopstake their phones and for 15
(08:45):
minutes just go and takepictures of whatever they notice
and come back and talk about it.
So I don't know if I lovephotography because it's mindful
or I realized that it's mindfulbecause I do photography.
I don't know which one, but Ido.
I do love that for that reasonto me Exactly, it slows me down,
it allows me to notice what Inotice and to be in the moment.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Love that have you?
Have you had people talkingabout glimmers recently?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, and I was mad at them.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh really why.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You're talking about glimmers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, I'm talking about the opposite of triggers,
glimmers yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yes, because years ago I came up with something I
called pamper triggers, which isthe same thing as a glimmer,
and I wanted to hijack that wordtrigger because it was so
negative and I said, hey, whydon't we make this into a
positive?
And pamper triggers are thosethings to me that make you feel
taken care of, soothed andcomforted, and we all have them.
(09:40):
So I called them pampertriggers.
There's a chapter in thesanctuary's book called Pamper
Triggers, but glimmers is fine.
I'm just teasing about beingmad.
Whatever gets people to takecare of themselves, I'm down
with.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, whatever's in the conversation, right?
Yeah, it's definitelyworthwhile, exactly Worthwhile.
I just read a book calledSubtract and it's making me
think a lot about what you'retalking about, with Zen and
mindfulness and so on, but alittle bit more active in its
approach rather than just beinga passive moment.
(10:15):
It's more like activelythinking about what you can take
away.
Can you talk about?
Some of the parallels betweenwhat you've been working on and
that sort of thinking.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, I read that book and I was fascinated by
that book.
And one of the things and I'mjust going, this is not a
criticism, it's just a fact isI'm not a super big science guy
but there was a lot of science,which is great, because you want
empirical evidence to back upwhat you're saying.
But those parts were harder forme to wrap my brain around.
(10:48):
But I really loved the messageand I really loved the
strategies that author talkedabout.
I'll just tell you a quickstory is because I figured, as I
was thinking about being on theshow today, that this would
really fit into what we weretalking about is.
I had a little time today andso there was a.
(11:10):
I've been in this condo forabout two years and the people I
bought it from left this gianthumidifier and it's nice, you
know but it's just been sittinghere and I thought, well, maybe
I'll use it, or maybe I shouldsell it if I don't want it, or
maybe I'll give it to somebodyor whatever.
And it's just, I haven't usedit.
And so I put it outside with asign on it that said free to a
(11:33):
good home.
I don't even know if it's stillthere anymore.
I had a box of my daughter'scollege textbooks that I bought
off of her, thinking I wouldsell them on eBay.
The ones I put on there didn'tsell and I ran out of time and
so I put those out to see ifanybody wants those.
And now I have more space in mycondo and it's not a huge condo,
so it matters, you know, andit's just the idea of we can,
(11:57):
all, you know, it's we thinkit's overwhelming, it's
intimidating.
Oh, I can't tackle it, it's toobig, but it's really doing a
lot of little things over time,and it's the overtime part that
really makes a difference.
And so that was just a littlestory about you know how I
subtracted today and there'sjust a load off.
(12:19):
You know, when you kind of, youknow, get rid of all that
flotsam and jetsam that'shanging around you, there's a
freedom and a liberation and youfeel like you have more
breathing room, which is awesome.
And I, you know again, being anactor and a drama major, I was
a pack rat.
I was like, oh, this hat, thispair of glasses, this bow tie, I
might use it in a placesometime, it might be good for a
(12:41):
character.
So all this stuff just piled up, I'm not that guy anymore.
Now I like streamlined, simple,minimalist.
That's what I'm all about.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I think what you've said about overtime is really
powerful, because we do live inthis like immediacy time, right,
like everything is you get yourphone out and you can look
something up immediately, orlike just having immediate
gratification.
But it really is a process,right.
(13:14):
If you want to truly spend thetime to you know one thing at a
time out of your house, itdoesn't have to be that
immediate like I'm going to havethis gigantic garage sale,
which is a lot of preparation,by the way.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Right, like who has time for that?
But you know it's a lot of workto set all of that up.
But if you you know the nicething is we have Facebook
Marketplace or like differentthings, put it out on your curb
like you did.
It is helpful to think ofthings and this kind of goes
back to like what we were sayingabout slowing down If it
(13:49):
doesn't have to be fast andmaybe it should be, because when
things are fast we lose sightof things, right?
We've forgotten why we're doingsomething.
But if we allow ourselves totake some time and be reflective
about what we're doing and whywe're doing it, it's so helpful,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It's so helpful.
You're reminding me of.
I think it was when my daughterwas born.
She was born in August, so itwas right before we went back,
and I think I missed thepre-service days and I had to
hit the ground running, like onday one of the teaching, and so
I didn't get a chance to fix upmy room and what I did was I
(14:33):
divided it into sections and Isaid, okay, this week it's the
counter under the windows, nextweek it's the classroom, the
next week it's going to be myoffice area in the back, and by
three or four weeks, like you'resaying, it didn't have to be
fast, but then I was ready.
I mean, it only took four weeks, but that was what was
(14:56):
necessary at the time and that'sokay.
You do what you have to do.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, for sure, we really enjoy listening to your
podcasters and professional andI noticed that one of the things
I really enjoy about thepodcasters is that you talk to
people from lots of differentfields with lots of different
experiences.
So what do you think we canlearn from other professions to
help us in our world ofeducation?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
A great question.
And you know, it's so weirdbecause I think Tammy was kind
of saying this earlier, I can'tremember when we were recording
or not that there's no job likethis.
Teaching is a very uniqueposition.
I say I haven't worked in thereal world in 30 years.
I mean we're very sheltered andisolated in some ways.
(15:45):
But I started thinking about howwell everybody is, probably
especially in this post pandemicworld or quasi post pandemic
world.
Everybody is struggling withstress, everybody is struggling
with anxiety, everybody isstruggling with how am I going
to make this happen, how am Igoing to get this all done?
And we have to allow for thatand we have to fight against
(16:10):
that impulse.
And I think that in thecorporate world or the business
world, as Tammy says, thatimmediacy or that sense of
urgency is even more pressingthan it is in teaching and in
education.
For better or worse, andsometimes both, the education
pendulum moves really slowlylike glacier pace, right.
(16:33):
But if you think about I don'tknow, doctors or lawyers or
corporate magnet type people,they're on a schedule like it's
got to happen right now and thatcan increase the stress.
So I thought, well, I'm goingto broaden my message and kind
of fold those folks into andbring those people into my
(16:53):
message so that I can maybestart helping them as well.
You know, once the you know myplatform was established in the
education community, I had thebandwidths to do that and I've.
You know, teachers are alwaysin my heart.
I will always love teachers andwork with teachers, but I just
thought I wanted to includeother people because I thought
(17:13):
they were going through it too.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Here in the Netherlands we'vegot a policy where it's to
protect us but they try andcount how many minutes or hours
we work during the week, andI've never been, I've never seen
a situation like this before,and you know pros and cons that
may have.
It does make me think about theeffect on people who have
(17:39):
billable hours and you knownumber targets and things like
this that they, you know, needto have this many emails done or
this many clients reached outto, and I think it is something
that teachers might not alwaysrealize.
Other people are existing underthese measurements.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Exactly, exactly, and that, as I said and as you said
, it just creates a lot ofstress or can.
And I don't think.
Well, I think businesses arestarting to talk about employee
well-being, but, much like ineducation and you've both seen
this too there's a lot of talkabout self-care and well-being,
but then it's like, oh, but dothese 40 things while you're
(18:19):
taking care of yourself?
You know, yes, and it's kind ofyou know, oxymoronic, I guess
would be the fancy term.
You know, because you can't doit that way, and so that's why I
always say that it's our ownresponsibility to be intentional
about it.
Nobody else is going to do itfor us.
I say, you know, I can be reallytired and nobody's going to
(18:42):
come up to me and go.
You know what, danny, youprobably need a nap.
You know, I have to listen tothose signals.
It's not going to come fromsomewhere else, so we have to
agree, and it's going to rufflefeathers and people are going to
look at you funny, because theydon't get to do it or they
don't choose to do it and it'snot part of the system.
So you look subversive, youlook rebellious, which also is
(19:04):
kind of fun.
But you know, yeah, you know, soyou have to do it, and that's
been my mission is to tellpeople.
You know what it's.
Not only is it up to you to doit, but it's okay if you do it
and you should do it.
I always say that everything Italk about everybody knows.
They're just reminders, youknow, and mostly they were
(19:27):
reminders for me when I waswriting the blog and the book.
I just wanted to put it down sothat I could look at it later
and go, yeah, I need to do that,but what I didn't expect is
that's how it's working foreverybody else too.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah, giving us a lot to think about.
It's always great to like readyour work and listen to you.
Thank you, and your voice isalso very soothing, so that's
helpful People keep telling methat I don't feel that way.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Thank you, yeah, and thank you for speaking in my
voice, for letting me be yourintro and outro.
That's super special.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Thank you.
No, we appreciate it very much.
As we wrap up this episode withyou, we always ask our guests
for a pair down pointer or twofor our listeners.
So what would you give to ourlisteners today from today's
episode or?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
some of that in addition.
Oh well, I have an idea that Iwanted to share that I think is
related to what we were talkingabout earlier in the episode.
And sometimes I say, if you'reworking on minimizing things and
decluttering, throw away 10things a day.
And of course, when I say throwaway because it's easy but it
(20:42):
might be recycling or givingaway or donating or something
like that, but if you throw away10 things a day, everybody can
do that.
That takes 10 minutes, right.
But if you think about the math, after a week you've thrown
away 70 things.
That's a lot of things and itcreates some space.
(21:02):
And then the great thing andthis is what I will leave you
all with and leave you listenerswith is when you commit to
doing some of these things,you're going to realize how
wonderful it is and then you'regoing to want to do more.
So you don't have to start big,like we said, start small.
But I can almost guarantee thatwhen you start small and you do
it, you're going to love it.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Thank you Dan.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That's awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It was great to be here.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Thank you so much for your time today.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Today's episode was brought to you by the Zen
Teacher.
The Zen Teacher helps youcreate focus, simplicity and
tranquility by encouraging amore Zen-inspired mindful
approach in the classroom.
Find out more atthezenteachercom.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
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