February 6, 2024 • 25 mins
Ever pondered why fewer girls are involved in sports compared to boys? Ever wondered how we can bridge this gap? On this episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast, we have an answer to these questions and more as we sit down with Janelle Meisenheimer, an experienced sports coach and PE teacher. Janelle pours out her heart about her journey starting with her passion for sports as a young girl, to her revelation about the significant play gap between boys and girls. We dissect the root issues, from lack of facilities to improper language use in sports, that create an unwelcoming environment for girls and women. But, it's not all gloom. We also chat about how we can make sports more appealing and accessible to all girls and women, empowering them to make physical activity a priority.
We then shift gears to a seldom-discussed, yet crucial topic: body literacy and inclusion in education. Menstruation and body changes are natural, but the stigma surrounding them often creates barriers for girls in sports. With Janelle's insightful guidance, we advocate for a paradigm shift in physical education, where body literacy is the norm, not the exception. We brainstorm effective ways that teachers can establish a non-judgmental and understanding classroom environment, helping ease the stress that girls face during puberty.
Finally, we zero in on the pivotal role of educators in redefining physical education. Janelle offers practical advice on fostering student-centered physical education and creating an inclusive environment. We dig into how educators can establish a culture of body literacy and offer girls a say in their PE uniforms. To cap it all, we tackle a subject that's often avoided – menstruation. Janelle courageously shares her personal experiences and walks us through how she's working to break down the stigma around menstruation in sports. So, join us for an episode brimming with compelling insights and pragmatic tips on how we can make sports and physical education more inclusive for every girl and woman out there.
Janelle is currently the Lower School PE Head of Department, Elementary PE and Health teacher, and Soccer Coach at the International School of Brussels. She has also worked at Cap Cana Heritage School in the Dominican Republic and Raha International School in the United Arab Emirates. Many people before us have worked hard for the space girls and women have in the sports world. There are more steps to create a safer, inclusive space for many people, and her research in menstruation, injury prevention, participation issues, and more with people who will, do, or did menstruate in sports is part of that pathway forward. When she doesn't have all of these hats on, she plays different sports, prioritizes social time, and snuggles up with my cat with a good book or show.
Epsiode Resources:
- Girls, Gender and Physical Education: An Activist Approach by Kimberly L. Oliver, David Kirk
- Period Power by Maisie Hill
- The Female Body Bible by Emma Ross, Baz Moffat, Bella Smith
- The Well HQ: https://www.thewell-hq.com/
- My slides from a presentation: https://docs.google.com/p
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borniman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
On today's episode we talk to Janelle Meisenheimer,
who is currently the lowerschool PE head of department,
elementary PE and health teacherand soccer coach at the
International School of Brussels.
She's also worked at Cape CanaHeritage School in the Dominican
Republic and the RahaInternational School in the
United Arab Emirates.
Many people before us haveworked hard for the space girls
(00:56):
and women have in the sportsworld.
There are more steps to createa safer, inclusive space for
many people, and her researchand menstruation, injury
prevention, participation issuesand more with people who will
do or did menstruate in sport ispart of that pathway forward.
When Janelle doesn't have all ofthese hats on, she plays
different sports, prioritisessocial time and snaggles up with
(01:18):
her cat with a good book or ashow.
Hello everyone and welcome totoday's episode.
We have the wonderful JanelleMeisenheimer joining us today.
Hi, janelle, thanks for joiningus, thanks for having me.
So today we're going to talkall about sport and physical
education and I know, janelle,that you're super passionate
(01:40):
about girls and females in sport.
Can you tell us a little bitabout how you got interested in
this?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Well, first I identify as a woman who plays
many sports and so I got into itwhen I was super young because
of just my parents being likekind of like, do whatever you
want to do, and my dad is anamazing golfer.
So he tried to make me a golferand I was like there's not
enough running in this dad.
(02:06):
Why would I want to do this?
Because I like to run a lot.
And then I got into soccer,basketball, track and field
still golf, sometimes with dadto make him happy.
But so at a young age it waskind of more about me and just
thinking of like me in sportsand never really thinking about
that's not what girls do.
(02:27):
I just thought it was kind ofnormal for anyone and everyone
to do sport.
And it was actually the older Igot, the more I realized that
friends were kind of droppingoff and not like joining in on
the next season or the more Itraveled, with the different
jobs I've had, withinternational schools and just
(02:48):
learning more about differentcultures and realizing that it
is not the norm for girls andwomen to be involved in many
sports or one sport or physicalactivity consistently.
And then the tip of the icebergof all that was three years ago.
I tore my ACL and somebody toldme, well, that's six times more
(03:12):
likely for girls and women.
And I was like that's not fair,why?
And there's just a lot thatgoes into that, like the play
gap of girls just not beingencouraged to play as much as
boys.
So then those fundamentalmovements aren't maybe developed
as much.
Again, it all depends on how wegrow up, because we're all
different and the facilitiesthat girls and women are getting
(03:36):
may not be as good as the boysand the men.
So there's just like unevengrounds, just like little things
like that.
I know those little things kindof sound crazy, but it adds up
and I was just more and morelike how is this still
continuing?
So that's how I got into thatdeep dive of like participation
(03:57):
of girls and women in physicalactivity.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So just hearing that, because obviously you're very
athletic and I would notconsider myself to be athletic
on team sports.
Anyway, I love running, that'sa solo thing, or I can like
Christine and I used to runtogether and we made that a big
priority as part of like ourlives as educators right,
(04:21):
because you need outlets andthings like that.
So I think sometimes women insports whether it's professional
or leisurely, maybe isn't afocus, right, until we realize,
oh, I need to like have ahealthy lifestyle, so I'm going
to build this in.
But why is it super importantthen that we maybe have more
(04:43):
emphasis and more priority forgirls to be in sports?
And I know that could be like areally huge discussion,
obviously, but like what is it?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
That's actually my capstone for my master's.
Oh cool Is going into a lot ofthat.
Yeah well, I'll keep talkingabout the.
You know, like a lot of thetime sports needs to be reframed
for girls with puberty, likeit's not matching them with
(05:17):
puberty and with theirself-consciousness, with their
bodies or their period starting,or the language around sport
isn't as inviting as it could be.
You know, sports, man-ship,man-to-man defense it's only
talking about world events oflike sports.
(05:37):
A lot of the time it's onlyabout men, like the men's World
Cup.
I live in Europe and Belgiumright now and it's like when the
men's World Cup was happening,everyone was going on and on
about it, even me, because Ilove soccer.
I don't, you know, I love thewomen's and the men's.
And then guess what the women'stournament is this summer?
Is anyone talking about it?
You know so, even like thatkind of stuff, it's not inviting
(06:01):
.
So if it's not inviting andit's not talked about and it's
not represented, then why wouldsomeone make it a priority?
Because it doesn't seem likethey're invited into that space
anyways.
And there's so many things thatwe can do to invite not just
girls, a lot more people intothe sports world space.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You know that makes sense and I think it does feel
very still right, very kind ofexclusive for people who
identify as men or have thatkind of strength, who are
stronger or just you know, likeI don't know a lot of female
athletes, which is crazy.
You know I know a lot of famousmale ones, but I don't really
(06:45):
know any female ones, and therejust doesn't seem to be that
same kind of attention orpriority for females in sports.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Oh, sorry, I was just going to say a couple years ago
, at the school I work at,elementary school has passion
learning, and one of the kidswas I don't remember because
this was like two or three yearsago, but I remember I don't
remember why he was having it,but I remember one of the
questions was like a couple ofthe questions actually was like
(07:15):
list your favorite athlete orlist and, and he gave the
choices of all the athletes, soit was like multiple choice
stuff and it was like 10athletes and they were all men.
And so then it was like on thebottom, like other, and I listed
like 10 women and I was like Ihope this is okay and I'm not
like traumatizing this kid.
(07:35):
But then also, at the same time, I was like no, like they need
to know that they're.
You know it's.
I'm trying to even change mylanguage a little bit, like if I
hear kids or coworkers orfriends, anybody, talking about
any kind of sport, I'm like oh,cool men's or women, and that's
just a subtle, like small,inclusive way to do it.
(07:56):
Yeah, sure, 99% of the timeit's going to be men, but it
gets people thinking like, ohyeah, in the Premier League,
chelsea does have a women's teamtoo, and they're crushing it
right now, you know so.
Yeah, it just makes it moreinviting, yeah right, absolutely
(08:17):
.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I mean that 100% gels with my personal experience
growing up.
Like I loved all differentsports team, one's individual,
and then, like somethinghappened in my teenage years and
it was just like none of thisis for me anymore and just kind
of dropped off.
And then as an adult it's beenlike, yeah, trying to find your
way back in somehow.
(08:38):
So yeah, I can completelyidentify with what you're saying
there.
So obviously, like there's somuch we can be doing to
accommodate for girls in sportsand encourage girls with sports
and model girls in sports.
But if you could point out acouple of main priorities there
that you could choose, if youwere commander of the world,
(09:01):
what would you suggest would besome good ways for us to go
about this?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah, we've already talked a couple with like
language and just likediscussions, of those little
things like you know oh cool,what term you're talking about
men's or women's or whatever.
And then I would also go intoincreased knowledge and
education in body literacy forthe girls.
Like, just normalize that oncea month they're going to be
(09:27):
having a period and they couldbe in a lot of pain or
discomfort with PE or withsports, and just normalize it,
create a space where it's safeand have compassion for them and
not just the suck it upattitude or the sit out attitude
.
I feel like those are like thetwo options that we get suck it
(09:49):
up or sit out and it's like whathappened to that spectrum of
compassion and just beingunderstanding and talking to
them about their body so theylearn more about it, because a
lot of the times you know, let'ssay it's a middle school girl
or high school girl they've onlybeen on the period for a couple
years they don't know what'sgoing on.
(10:10):
I'm an adult and I'm stilllearning what's going on, you
know.
So they're scared, they're selfconscious, they don't know
what's going on.
Even if it's just a little bitof pain and they can keep moving
with it, they don't understandwhat that pain means yet so they
haven't, like, tested it outyet.
Or there are girls who reallydo hurt that bad and there's
something more going on and theyneed to go to the doctor.
(10:31):
But because people are givingthem the sit out or suck it up
attitude, they don't know thatthey're not having a normal
period to go to the doctor andget that checked out.
So I think that could be hugeis just normalizing body
literacy around these studentswho are meant, who will
menstruate or are menstruating.
(10:52):
Another thing could be have thegirls name their barriers of why
they're not finding joy, orjust joy is such a big one with
physical activity like havingjoy in it.
You know if they're namingtheir barriers or why they're
not participating or why they'renot finding enjoyment, and they
understand the inequities likein it as well.
(11:15):
Because they're naming it, theyknow their movement journey and
therefore can hopefully buildonto it and create a movement
journey Instead of just beinglike I don't really know what's
going on, so I'm not going to doit.
I don't know why it doesn'tbring me joy, so I'm not going
to do it.
Or I don't know why, I'm notcomfortable, I'm just not going
to do it because I'muncomfortable, Instead of naming
(11:37):
it and then trying to problemsolve that.
There are a couple of big ones.
I think that could help in PEclasses or in after school
programs or in sports sportsteams as well?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No for sure, because, as you're talking to, like you
mentioned, like body literacy,which is like a phrase term that
I have not heard before, and Ithink it's important that, not
just for PE teachers to be ableto kind of help support students
in that journey andunderstanding their bodies, but
classroom teachers have to dothat too, and sometimes it's
(12:14):
hard to find space in your dayto address those things as well,
and we think of those as kindof like social, emotional
learning needs and that kind ofthing.
It's also like a physical, it'sone of the basic needs that we
have to meet, like are yougetting food, like those kinds
of things, but also like are youwell physically?
(12:35):
And so how do we then kind ofopen up a little bit of space
for classroom teachers even tojump in with, like you know,
like movement in classrooms orlike kind of building that in?
So I know that kind of veers alittle bit, a little squirrely
from what you're just talkingabout, but it still layers in.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, and I think it's super important to
recognize that girls' bodies andtheir mindsets are some of the
biggest barriers toparticipation and performance
during puberty.
But that's not just with PE,that could also be in their
other classrooms as well,because think about that
(13:20):
hierarchy of needs for a human.
If they're stressed, like Idon't know when my period's
coming next, because it'sirregular, because they've only
had it for a year or two, sothey're really stressed about
that, because maybe their lastperiod it bled through their
genes and somebody saw they'regoing to be focusing on that
instead of like what they shouldbe learning that day.
(13:40):
So you're right, it's not justcoaches, pe teachers after
school and just with movement.
It's with everyone, with thatbody literacy and creating that
space of first, like talkingabout things like periods with
everyone and not just the girls.
Like we need allies, right,people are menstruating.
You need allies and you needthe world understanding about it
(14:02):
.
50% of the population is ofpeople who will menstruate, are
menstruating or did menstruate.
So why is it not normal?
Why is everyone not talkingabout it?
Sometimes it feels like it'sjust me.
No, I'm just kidding Me too,and you know.
And talking about like, forexample, if I'm a grade six
(14:27):
teacher, or even like a gradeeight math teacher.
You're creating your classroomnorms at the beginning of the
year and you're doing your teambuilding activities or you're,
you know, getting to knoweveryone and doing some awesome
like connection activities andyou're building your classroom
norms.
Why would one of your classroomnorms not be something about
(14:48):
like and you know there's I haveperiod products here if you
need them, or the office hasthem, and I know that a lot of
you are going through a lot ofchanges.
I don't know, I'm just I'mliterally making this up right
now, but that that's an easy wayto like.
I like that, yeah, and you'retalking to everyone about it.
And if you're calm, collectiveand cool about it, then everyone
(15:10):
else.
Yeah, you might get somegiggles, but they'll be thinking
about like wow, miss Chenellewas like really chill when she
brought that up.
You know like she wasn't likeawkward and she normalized it.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, you just gave me some massive flashbacks to
now of high school PE.
I was lucky enough to go to aschool that had a pool and so we
would do swimming every year,once a year, but we had a school
uniform, bathing suit, whichdid not have support or anything
(15:42):
, and then we used to do, youknow, like we'd swim a couple of
laps and then get out and runaround the pool or skip around
the pool or do you jumping jacksand the mortification for the
girls of wearing this schoolprovided bathing suit, while
running and jumping in a in abathing suit, like it's, yeah,
(16:04):
horror memory for me and, yeah,just traumatizing for sure yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
And it's all rooted in the history of PE, like PE
was created for military, likegetting boys and men ready for
military and war.
So a lot of that is rooted in alot of movement and thinking of
uniforms, of just like.
Like a uniform for a boy, like,oh, here's your t-shirt and
(16:32):
shorts, like go, kind of thing.
Yeah, yes, you know, they haveduring puberty, they have, you
know, things to worry about aswell, but, like with girls, it's
period, it's, oh my god, likenow I have boobs.
What do I and no one's told meabout sports bras like and I
don't know what kind of sportsbra to get, you know things like
(16:53):
that and that's something tohave.
Like thinking about effectivestrategies of like creating that
space and like supporting girlsis let them have a say in the
uniform.
If you have a sports uniform ora PE uniform or the swimsuit
for your school, whatever- we'renot the ones wearing it.
Why are we deciding what thekids are wearing?
Let them have a say.
(17:13):
Give them if you want them witha couple of choices, that's
fine.
But the kids can like vote onthe choices and you compromise
and you meet in the middle, Iguess.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I don't get it.
Yeah, for sure, it's one ofthose decisions that, as
educators, we shouldn't have tomake, right?
So we already make tons ofdecisions every day.
Why don't we let them decidewhat's appropriate to wear?
Or we can decide theappropriateness, right, but
here's your couple of choiceswithin that.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be soprescribed coming from you know
(17:45):
teachers.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Because there's one report I read.
It's from women in sports.
It's a great organization.
In the UK they said like up to40% of girls are avoiding
exercise when they're on theirperiods and that's just.
And that's because of, like,lack of knowledge or self
confidence or scared nervous,those feelings.
(18:06):
So how can we tackle thosebarriers?
And these are some of thoseoptions to tackle it.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So thinking about then, like there's a lot to
there's actually like justtalking through this, there's a
lot more to it than I eventhought, Like I always think
about use of language, but thenlike you're talking about the
body, literacy and like how wecan, you know it's all tied
(18:33):
around our education of it, Alot of comfort level with
teachers finding the space inour day to like address things.
But we know that we're dealingwith people right, so we have to
put people first, becausethat's why we're here.
But if we think about likebecause that is quite a bit for
teachers to think about so if wethink about like principles of
(18:55):
minimalism, how can we kind ofgenerally apply that within
physical education to kind ofpromote a more focused and
meaningful learning experiencefor students?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Like you said, we're dealing with people.
So then, what comes first?
Their needs.
And if their needs are part ofthe culture and it's a part of
the school's culture, so it'snot just one PE teacher like
here's period products and let'sall talk about it a little bit,
and it's like the whole schooltalking about not even just this
(19:31):
, other things that make peoplefeel included and things like
that, if it's a part of theculture and the norms, isn't
that minimalism?
Because you don't have to keepbringing it up and creating it
over and over again, becauseit's just there, absolutely.
That's my thought.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
And just prioritizing on what helps our students feel
seen.
And if they're feeling seen andthey're feeling more
comfortable, they're going tojoin in on that community and
then they're going to be feelingbetter.
There's going to be lessdiscipline issues, if that's
what people think it is thisgirl sitting out and not doing
anything, yeah, because she'sfreaking scared that she's going
(20:17):
to have like blood all over hershorts.
That's not a discipline issue,you know like so, yeah, just
adjusting, like to be studentcentered and making it about
them, like you said, like we'redealing with people.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, and as you were saying, Tammy, it's in there
amongst those basic survivalneeds.
Like are you fed?
Do you have shelter?
Is your body okay?
Like, are you well?
Yep, Like, how do we expect allof the other academic learning
to occur or socialization tooccur if they're not well within
(20:53):
their body?
Absolutely for sure.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, and girls, like girls, aren't born under
confident, not right.
They're being held back bygender stereotyping.
So it's not about fixing thegirls, it's about fixing the
system that the girls are in.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yes, my drop moments I love it Perfect, I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I mean, I could talk to you about so much more stuff,
janelle.
I know you're very passionateabout education and females in
sport as well, so we could keepchatting, but what we do like to
ask of our guests before we letthem go is our pare down
pointer.
So we like to.
It can be.
It doesn't have to be physicaleducation related or sports
(21:41):
related.
It can be something that youuse for yourself in your life,
but just some sort of tip forpeople about how you can
prioritize or be efficient.
Tip, a motto or strategy,anything like that.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I think the last couple of years because I've
been this is my 10th yearteaching but 12th year, like in
education I think the lastcouple of years I really focus
on less is more.
I mean by that, for examplesorry, it is PE examples but you
know, sometimes doing the sameactivity a couple more times,
(22:18):
but it's with a new partner andthe kids.
I talk about it with thembecause it's about like getting
to know the people around youbetter and you know we call it
anyone, anyone, anyone and justlike partnering up with anyone.
And so sometimes, because Iused to think I have to do this,
I do all of this, I have tolike do this lesson and then
this build up and then thisreflection and then this yes, I
(22:39):
still need to do all that, butwhy can't I have it be like part
one on Monday and part two onWednesday and draw that out a
little bit and we're justbreathing a little bit more and
enjoying each other's companymore.
So sometimes that like less ismore.
That has.
That has been great and I feellike I've gotten to know my
students a little bit betterbecause of things like the do
(23:02):
the activity a couple more times, but with a new partner, having
the kids think of something todo and not having me think of it
all the time, so that's been abig help the last couple years.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
We doesn't always have to be usdeciding and directing
everything all the time.
The kids are very capable ofhelping out with that stuff, for
sure.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yeah, I tell them all the time like this isn't my
classroom, it's our classroom.
So I'm not going to be makingall the decisions, I'm not going
to be the one talking all thetime.
You know like we're going toplan together, we'll compromise
together.
There will be some things thatare not negotiable, but there's
going to be a lot that'snegotiable, and I think that
that's just taking a weight offas well, because then it does
(23:49):
really feel like it's ourclassroom and then it's like not
all on me, because when I wasfirst starting teaching, that's
how it felt.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thank you so much, janelle.
Is there anything else?
Tami wanted to ask before welet our wonderful guests go.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Well, I kind of don't want to let her go because I
keep talking, but no, it was areally great conversation and
just had me thinking about a lotof other things, so thanks for
being with us today, janelle.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Thanks for having me and letting me talk about
periods.
Oh God, Yay.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Thanks, Janelle.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Plan Z Professional
Learning Services.
Forward-thinking educatorsupport.
Find out more atPlanZPLServicescom.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
PlanZPLScom.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borniman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
On today's episode we talk to Janelle Meisenheimer,
who is currently the lowerschool PE head of department,
elementary PE and health teacherand soccer coach at the
International School of Brussels.
She's also worked at Cape CanaHeritage School in the Dominican
Republic and the RahaInternational School in the
United Arab Emirates.
Many people before us haveworked hard for the space girls
(00:56):
and women have in the sportsworld.
There are more steps to createa safer, inclusive space for
many people, and her researchand menstruation, injury
prevention, participation issuesand more with people who will
do or did menstruate in sport ispart of that pathway forward.
When Janelle doesn't have all ofthese hats on, she plays
different sports, prioritisessocial time and snaggles up with
(01:18):
her cat with a good book or ashow.
Hello everyone and welcome totoday's episode.
We have the wonderful JanelleMeisenheimer joining us today.
Hi, janelle, thanks for joiningus, thanks for having me.
So today we're going to talkall about sport and physical
education and I know, janelle,that you're super passionate
(01:40):
about girls and females in sport.
Can you tell us a little bitabout how you got interested in
this?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Well, first I identify as a woman who plays
many sports and so I got into itwhen I was super young because
of just my parents being likekind of like, do whatever you
want to do, and my dad is anamazing golfer.
So he tried to make me a golferand I was like there's not
enough running in this dad.
(02:06):
Why would I want to do this?
Because I like to run a lot.
And then I got into soccer,basketball, track and field
still golf, sometimes with dadto make him happy.
But so at a young age it waskind of more about me and just
thinking of like me in sportsand never really thinking about
that's not what girls do.
(02:27):
I just thought it was kind ofnormal for anyone and everyone
to do sport.
And it was actually the older Igot, the more I realized that
friends were kind of droppingoff and not like joining in on
the next season or the more Itraveled, with the different
jobs I've had, withinternational schools and just
(02:48):
learning more about differentcultures and realizing that it
is not the norm for girls andwomen to be involved in many
sports or one sport or physicalactivity consistently.
And then the tip of the icebergof all that was three years ago.
I tore my ACL and somebody toldme, well, that's six times more
(03:12):
likely for girls and women.
And I was like that's not fair,why?
And there's just a lot thatgoes into that, like the play
gap of girls just not beingencouraged to play as much as
boys.
So then those fundamentalmovements aren't maybe developed
as much.
Again, it all depends on how wegrow up, because we're all
different and the facilitiesthat girls and women are getting
(03:36):
may not be as good as the boysand the men.
So there's just like unevengrounds, just like little things
like that.
I know those little things kindof sound crazy, but it adds up
and I was just more and morelike how is this still
continuing?
So that's how I got into thatdeep dive of like participation
(03:57):
of girls and women in physicalactivity.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So just hearing that, because obviously you're very
athletic and I would notconsider myself to be athletic
on team sports.
Anyway, I love running, that'sa solo thing, or I can like
Christine and I used to runtogether and we made that a big
priority as part of like ourlives as educators right,
(04:21):
because you need outlets andthings like that.
So I think sometimes women insports whether it's professional
or leisurely, maybe isn't afocus, right, until we realize,
oh, I need to like have ahealthy lifestyle, so I'm going
to build this in.
But why is it super importantthen that we maybe have more
(04:43):
emphasis and more priority forgirls to be in sports?
And I know that could be like areally huge discussion,
obviously, but like what is it?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
That's actually my capstone for my master's.
Oh cool Is going into a lot ofthat.
Yeah well, I'll keep talkingabout the.
You know, like a lot of thetime sports needs to be reframed
for girls with puberty, likeit's not matching them with
(05:17):
puberty and with theirself-consciousness, with their
bodies or their period starting,or the language around sport
isn't as inviting as it could be.
You know, sports, man-ship,man-to-man defense it's only
talking about world events oflike sports.
(05:37):
A lot of the time it's onlyabout men, like the men's World
Cup.
I live in Europe and Belgiumright now and it's like when the
men's World Cup was happening,everyone was going on and on
about it, even me, because Ilove soccer.
I don't, you know, I love thewomen's and the men's.
And then guess what the women'stournament is this summer?
Is anyone talking about it?
You know so, even like thatkind of stuff, it's not inviting
(06:01):
.
So if it's not inviting andit's not talked about and it's
not represented, then why wouldsomeone make it a priority?
Because it doesn't seem likethey're invited into that space
anyways.
And there's so many things thatwe can do to invite not just
girls, a lot more people intothe sports world space.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You know that makes sense and I think it does feel
very still right, very kind ofexclusive for people who
identify as men or have thatkind of strength, who are
stronger or just you know, likeI don't know a lot of female
athletes, which is crazy.
You know I know a lot of famousmale ones, but I don't really
(06:45):
know any female ones, and therejust doesn't seem to be that
same kind of attention orpriority for females in sports.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Oh, sorry, I was just going to say a couple years ago
, at the school I work at,elementary school has passion
learning, and one of the kidswas I don't remember because
this was like two or three yearsago, but I remember I don't
remember why he was having it,but I remember one of the
questions was like a couple ofthe questions actually was like
(07:15):
list your favorite athlete orlist and, and he gave the
choices of all the athletes, soit was like multiple choice
stuff and it was like 10athletes and they were all men.
And so then it was like on thebottom, like other, and I listed
like 10 women and I was like Ihope this is okay and I'm not
like traumatizing this kid.
(07:35):
But then also, at the same time, I was like no, like they need
to know that they're.
You know it's.
I'm trying to even change mylanguage a little bit, like if I
hear kids or coworkers orfriends, anybody, talking about
any kind of sport, I'm like oh,cool men's or women, and that's
just a subtle, like small,inclusive way to do it.
(07:56):
Yeah, sure, 99% of the timeit's going to be men, but it
gets people thinking like, ohyeah, in the Premier League,
chelsea does have a women's teamtoo, and they're crushing it
right now, you know so.
Yeah, it just makes it moreinviting, yeah right, absolutely
(08:17):
.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I mean that 100% gels with my personal experience
growing up.
Like I loved all differentsports team, one's individual,
and then, like somethinghappened in my teenage years and
it was just like none of thisis for me anymore and just kind
of dropped off.
And then as an adult it's beenlike, yeah, trying to find your
way back in somehow.
(08:38):
So yeah, I can completelyidentify with what you're saying
there.
So obviously, like there's somuch we can be doing to
accommodate for girls in sportsand encourage girls with sports
and model girls in sports.
But if you could point out acouple of main priorities there
that you could choose, if youwere commander of the world,
(09:01):
what would you suggest would besome good ways for us to go
about this?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah, we've already talked a couple with like
language and just likediscussions, of those little
things like you know oh cool,what term you're talking about
men's or women's or whatever.
And then I would also go intoincreased knowledge and
education in body literacy forthe girls.
Like, just normalize that oncea month they're going to be
(09:27):
having a period and they couldbe in a lot of pain or
discomfort with PE or withsports, and just normalize it,
create a space where it's safeand have compassion for them and
not just the suck it upattitude or the sit out attitude
.
I feel like those are like thetwo options that we get suck it
(09:49):
up or sit out and it's like whathappened to that spectrum of
compassion and just beingunderstanding and talking to
them about their body so theylearn more about it, because a
lot of the times you know, let'ssay it's a middle school girl
or high school girl they've onlybeen on the period for a couple
years they don't know what'sgoing on.
(10:10):
I'm an adult and I'm stilllearning what's going on, you
know.
So they're scared, they're selfconscious, they don't know
what's going on.
Even if it's just a little bitof pain and they can keep moving
with it, they don't understandwhat that pain means yet so they
haven't, like, tested it outyet.
Or there are girls who reallydo hurt that bad and there's
something more going on and theyneed to go to the doctor.
(10:31):
But because people are givingthem the sit out or suck it up
attitude, they don't know thatthey're not having a normal
period to go to the doctor andget that checked out.
So I think that could be hugeis just normalizing body
literacy around these studentswho are meant, who will
menstruate or are menstruating.
(10:52):
Another thing could be have thegirls name their barriers of why
they're not finding joy, orjust joy is such a big one with
physical activity like havingjoy in it.
You know if they're namingtheir barriers or why they're
not participating or why they'renot finding enjoyment, and they
understand the inequities likein it as well.
(11:15):
Because they're naming it, theyknow their movement journey and
therefore can hopefully buildonto it and create a movement
journey Instead of just beinglike I don't really know what's
going on, so I'm not going to doit.
I don't know why it doesn'tbring me joy, so I'm not going
to do it.
Or I don't know why, I'm notcomfortable, I'm just not going
to do it because I'muncomfortable, Instead of naming
(11:37):
it and then trying to problemsolve that.
There are a couple of big ones.
I think that could help in PEclasses or in after school
programs or in sports sportsteams as well?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No for sure, because, as you're talking to, like you
mentioned, like body literacy,which is like a phrase term that
I have not heard before, and Ithink it's important that, not
just for PE teachers to be ableto kind of help support students
in that journey andunderstanding their bodies, but
classroom teachers have to dothat too, and sometimes it's
(12:14):
hard to find space in your dayto address those things as well,
and we think of those as kindof like social, emotional
learning needs and that kind ofthing.
It's also like a physical, it'sone of the basic needs that we
have to meet, like are yougetting food, like those kinds
of things, but also like are youwell physically?
(12:35):
And so how do we then kind ofopen up a little bit of space
for classroom teachers even tojump in with, like you know,
like movement in classrooms orlike kind of building that in?
So I know that kind of veers alittle bit, a little squirrely
from what you're just talkingabout, but it still layers in.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, and I think it's super important to
recognize that girls' bodies andtheir mindsets are some of the
biggest barriers toparticipation and performance
during puberty.
But that's not just with PE,that could also be in their
other classrooms as well,because think about that
(13:20):
hierarchy of needs for a human.
If they're stressed, like Idon't know when my period's
coming next, because it'sirregular, because they've only
had it for a year or two, sothey're really stressed about
that, because maybe their lastperiod it bled through their
genes and somebody saw they'regoing to be focusing on that
instead of like what they shouldbe learning that day.
(13:40):
So you're right, it's not justcoaches, pe teachers after
school and just with movement.
It's with everyone, with thatbody literacy and creating that
space of first, like talkingabout things like periods with
everyone and not just the girls.
Like we need allies, right,people are menstruating.
You need allies and you needthe world understanding about it
(14:02):
.
50% of the population is ofpeople who will menstruate, are
menstruating or did menstruate.
So why is it not normal?
Why is everyone not talkingabout it?
Sometimes it feels like it'sjust me.
No, I'm just kidding Me too,and you know.
And talking about like, forexample, if I'm a grade six
(14:27):
teacher, or even like a gradeeight math teacher.
You're creating your classroomnorms at the beginning of the
year and you're doing your teambuilding activities or you're,
you know, getting to knoweveryone and doing some awesome
like connection activities andyou're building your classroom
norms.
Why would one of your classroomnorms not be something about
(14:48):
like and you know there's I haveperiod products here if you
need them, or the office hasthem, and I know that a lot of
you are going through a lot ofchanges.
I don't know, I'm just I'mliterally making this up right
now, but that that's an easy wayto like.
I like that, yeah, and you'retalking to everyone about it.
And if you're calm, collectiveand cool about it, then everyone
(15:10):
else.
Yeah, you might get somegiggles, but they'll be thinking
about like wow, miss Chenellewas like really chill when she
brought that up.
You know like she wasn't likeawkward and she normalized it.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, you just gave me some massive flashbacks to
now of high school PE.
I was lucky enough to go to aschool that had a pool and so we
would do swimming every year,once a year, but we had a school
uniform, bathing suit, whichdid not have support or anything
(15:42):
, and then we used to do, youknow, like we'd swim a couple of
laps and then get out and runaround the pool or skip around
the pool or do you jumping jacksand the mortification for the
girls of wearing this schoolprovided bathing suit, while
running and jumping in a in abathing suit, like it's, yeah,
(16:04):
horror memory for me and, yeah,just traumatizing for sure yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
And it's all rooted in the history of PE, like PE
was created for military, likegetting boys and men ready for
military and war.
So a lot of that is rooted in alot of movement and thinking of
uniforms, of just like.
Like a uniform for a boy, like,oh, here's your t-shirt and
(16:32):
shorts, like go, kind of thing.
Yeah, yes, you know, they haveduring puberty, they have, you
know, things to worry about aswell, but, like with girls, it's
period, it's, oh my god, likenow I have boobs.
What do I and no one's told meabout sports bras like and I
don't know what kind of sportsbra to get, you know things like
(16:53):
that and that's something tohave.
Like thinking about effectivestrategies of like creating that
space and like supporting girlsis let them have a say in the
uniform.
If you have a sports uniform ora PE uniform or the swimsuit
for your school, whatever- we'renot the ones wearing it.
Why are we deciding what thekids are wearing?
Let them have a say.
(17:13):
Give them if you want them witha couple of choices, that's
fine.
But the kids can like vote onthe choices and you compromise
and you meet in the middle, Iguess.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I don't get it.
Yeah, for sure, it's one ofthose decisions that, as
educators, we shouldn't have tomake, right?
So we already make tons ofdecisions every day.
Why don't we let them decidewhat's appropriate to wear?
Or we can decide theappropriateness, right, but
here's your couple of choiceswithin that.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be soprescribed coming from you know
(17:45):
teachers.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Because there's one report I read.
It's from women in sports.
It's a great organization.
In the UK they said like up to40% of girls are avoiding
exercise when they're on theirperiods and that's just.
And that's because of, like,lack of knowledge or self
confidence or scared nervous,those feelings.
(18:06):
So how can we tackle thosebarriers?
And these are some of thoseoptions to tackle it.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So thinking about then, like there's a lot to
there's actually like justtalking through this, there's a
lot more to it than I eventhought, Like I always think
about use of language, but thenlike you're talking about the
body, literacy and like how wecan, you know it's all tied
(18:33):
around our education of it, Alot of comfort level with
teachers finding the space inour day to like address things.
But we know that we're dealingwith people right, so we have to
put people first, becausethat's why we're here.
But if we think about likebecause that is quite a bit for
teachers to think about so if wethink about like principles of
(18:55):
minimalism, how can we kind ofgenerally apply that within
physical education to kind ofpromote a more focused and
meaningful learning experiencefor students?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Like you said, we're dealing with people.
So then, what comes first?
Their needs.
And if their needs are part ofthe culture and it's a part of
the school's culture, so it'snot just one PE teacher like
here's period products and let'sall talk about it a little bit,
and it's like the whole schooltalking about not even just this
(19:31):
, other things that make peoplefeel included and things like
that, if it's a part of theculture and the norms, isn't
that minimalism?
Because you don't have to keepbringing it up and creating it
over and over again, becauseit's just there, absolutely.
That's my thought.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
And just prioritizing on what helps our students feel
seen.
And if they're feeling seen andthey're feeling more
comfortable, they're going tojoin in on that community and
then they're going to be feelingbetter.
There's going to be lessdiscipline issues, if that's
what people think it is thisgirl sitting out and not doing
anything, yeah, because she'sfreaking scared that she's going
(20:17):
to have like blood all over hershorts.
That's not a discipline issue,you know like so, yeah, just
adjusting, like to be studentcentered and making it about
them, like you said, like we'redealing with people.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, and as you were saying, Tammy, it's in there
amongst those basic survivalneeds.
Like are you fed?
Do you have shelter?
Is your body okay?
Like, are you well?
Yep, Like, how do we expect allof the other academic learning
to occur or socialization tooccur if they're not well within
(20:53):
their body?
Absolutely for sure.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, and girls, like girls, aren't born under
confident, not right.
They're being held back bygender stereotyping.
So it's not about fixing thegirls, it's about fixing the
system that the girls are in.
Yep.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yes, my drop moments I love it Perfect, I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I mean, I could talk to you about so much more stuff,
janelle.
I know you're very passionateabout education and females in
sport as well, so we could keepchatting, but what we do like to
ask of our guests before we letthem go is our pare down
pointer.
So we like to.
It can be.
It doesn't have to be physicaleducation related or sports
(21:41):
related.
It can be something that youuse for yourself in your life,
but just some sort of tip forpeople about how you can
prioritize or be efficient.
Tip, a motto or strategy,anything like that.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I think the last couple of years because I've
been this is my 10th yearteaching but 12th year, like in
education I think the lastcouple of years I really focus
on less is more.
I mean by that, for examplesorry, it is PE examples but you
know, sometimes doing the sameactivity a couple more times,
(22:18):
but it's with a new partner andthe kids.
I talk about it with thembecause it's about like getting
to know the people around youbetter and you know we call it
anyone, anyone, anyone and justlike partnering up with anyone.
And so sometimes, because Iused to think I have to do this,
I do all of this, I have tolike do this lesson and then
this build up and then thisreflection and then this yes, I
(22:39):
still need to do all that, butwhy can't I have it be like part
one on Monday and part two onWednesday and draw that out a
little bit and we're justbreathing a little bit more and
enjoying each other's companymore.
So sometimes that like less ismore.
That has.
That has been great and I feellike I've gotten to know my
students a little bit betterbecause of things like the do
(23:02):
the activity a couple more times, but with a new partner, having
the kids think of something todo and not having me think of it
all the time, so that's been abig help the last couple years.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
We doesn't always have to be usdeciding and directing
everything all the time.
The kids are very capable ofhelping out with that stuff, for
sure.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yeah, I tell them all the time like this isn't my
classroom, it's our classroom.
So I'm not going to be makingall the decisions, I'm not going
to be the one talking all thetime.
You know like we're going toplan together, we'll compromise
together.
There will be some things thatare not negotiable, but there's
going to be a lot that'snegotiable, and I think that
that's just taking a weight offas well, because then it does
(23:49):
really feel like it's ourclassroom and then it's like not
all on me, because when I wasfirst starting teaching, that's
how it felt.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thank you so much, janelle.
Is there anything else?
Tami wanted to ask before welet our wonderful guests go.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Well, I kind of don't want to let her go because I
keep talking, but no, it was areally great conversation and
just had me thinking about a lotof other things, so thanks for
being with us today, janelle.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Thanks for having me and letting me talk about
periods.
Oh God, Yay.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Thanks, Janelle.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Plan Z Professional
Learning Services.
Forward-thinking educatorsupport.
Find out more atPlanZPLServicescom.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
PlanZPLScom.
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