February 13, 2024 • 26 mins
Are you ready to revolutionize the way you think about education? Tune in as we sit down with Julia Skolnick, the brain-science whizz and founder of Professional Learning Partnerships. She fervently advocates for integrating brain science into our teaching and leadership methods to revolutionize K-12 education. Julia’s mission to bridge the gap between research and practice in education is truly eye-opening. She highlights the adverse effects of standardized tests on students, teachers, and parents and how the 'less is more' philosophy can positively influence teaching and learning.
Sit tight as we flip the script, discussing the often ignored systems and processes in education. We take a critical look at the idea of specialization for teachers and how overwhelming administrative tasks can obstruct their main roles. An interesting chat on the significance of values and learner profiles in schools ensues, emphasizing their role as a guiding framework for decision-making, rather than just an accessory. Our experiences as educators in International Baccalaureate (IB) schools, incorporating the learner profile into our teaching and planning processes, offer practical insights into this approach. This episode prompts educators to constantly rethink and assess their systems and priorities to create a more impactful and meaningful learning experience for students. So gear up for this knowledge-packed episode that promises to leave you with much to ponder.
Julia Skolnik, MSEd is the CEO & Founder of Professional Learning Partnerships (PLP), which is an organization dedicated to transforming learning and leadership using brain science through long-term partnerships with K-12 school districts. Building upon over 20 years of experience working in schools, research laboratories, and museums, Julia founded PLP to empower educators and leaders to leverage brain science as a tool for meaningfully transforming learning, leadership, and culture in K-12 schools. As CEO & Founder, she creates the overarching vision for PLP, designs innovative and research-based professional learning programs, and cultivates sustained partnerships with a growing network of school districts across the U.S.
Julia wrote a guest blog post on our website: Less is More
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Today we speak with Julia Skolnick about how we can
translate brain science into ourpractice as educators.
Her pared down pointer isstarting with building trust as
a leader or educator.
Julia Skolnick, MS Ed, is theCEO and founder of Professional
Learning Partnerships, PLP,which is an organization
(00:55):
dedicated to transforminglearning and leadership using
brain science through long-termpartnership with K-12 school
districts.
Building upon over 20 years ofexperience working in schools,
research laboratories andmuseums, Julia founded PLP to
empower educators and leaders toleverage brain science as a
tool for meaningfullytransforming learning,
leadership and culture in K-12schools.
(01:16):
A CEO and founder should createthe overarching vision for PLP,
designs innovative andresearch-based professional
learning programs and cultivatesustained partnerships with a
growing network of schooldistricts across the US.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of the Minimalist EducatorPodcast.
This week, our guest is JuliaSkolnick of Professional
Learning Partnerships.
Welcome, julia.
Hey, thanks for having me.
We're excited to have you heretoday because we have some
really aligned ideas andthoughts about how to approach
(01:56):
teaching and learning.
I think we're going to have agood little geek out session,
talking about the science behindthe thoughts of subtraction and
going with a less-as-moreapproach.
Can you talk a little bit about, maybe first of all, the things
(02:16):
that you do with ProfessionalLearning Partnerships?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
I lead an organization calledProfessional Learning
Partnerships, or PLP for short,and we partner with school
districts around the country toprioritize brain science and
education.
We aim to transform learningand leadership by empowering
educators to both understand andapply brain science to be able
(02:40):
to make more impactful decisionsin K-12 schools.
So partnerships look reallydifferent, and sometimes we're
training administrator teams andsometimes it's new teachers or
we have a think tank innovatorprogram where we bring solutions
minded teacher leaders together.
So it's a lot of differentforms that it takes, but that
goal of prioritizing brainscience and education is top of
(03:04):
mind.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
And where or how did you become interested in this?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah.
So my story kind of goes allthe way back to my training as a
elementary educator.
Being in college, I went toBrandeis University outside of
Boston, and half my course workis education and learning how to
be a teacher and the other halfis psychology and cognitive
science and learning about thebrain and learning and memory
(03:30):
and all of that, and hardly everdid those two paths cross.
I think there was onedevelopmental site class, but in
all of my experience abouteducation we were not talking
about the brain, we were nottalking about how learning works
, and even in my studentteaching I just had so many more
questions than I had answersabout how to do this really well
(03:54):
.
What's the evidence behindreally effective education.
So my career has taken a lot oftime to think about how to do so
.
My career has taken an unusualpath.
I've worked in research and inmemory labs, learning science
labs, I've worked in museums,I've worked in classrooms and
all the while kind of livingbetween these two worlds of
research and practice andeducation.
(04:16):
And that is, I think, the sweetspot in my passion area is
helping educators get the bestfrom the research world but
saving them as much time andpain as possible, because it can
be a painful process trying tosort through all the research
that's out there.
So that's the place I like tolive in between.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, there does seem to be a little bit of a gap
between the science, theresearch, and then what's
happening in our classrooms,doesn't there?
So yeah, I'm glad you're doingthat work for us, julia.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Thank you.
And to add on to the gap,there's a lot of misinformation
and bad science and, in all goodintentions, the education field
latches on sometimes to trendswithout the evidence behind it,
and so it's kind of like a gapplus misalignment on top of that
, which makes it extrachallenging.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah for sure, which actually I was just thinking.
Do you have something that yousee happening repeatedly
frequently in schools thatyou're like we got to stop,
don't do that anymore?
Is there something that comesto mind?
Probably a whole bunch.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
There's a laundry list of those things, but one
kind of institutional thing Iwas just listening to Hidden
Potential by Adam Grant and kindof has international lens on
education, and I think one ofthe things that really plagues
us in America is this intensetesting culture and the
(05:45):
assessment, the performance, howa lot of our success is gauged
in those scores, and so if wecould just throw out
standardized testing of allkinds, I know we'd see intrinsic
motivation boosts, teacherscould take a breath, parents
could take a breath, studentscould take a breath and it would
be just much more fun andenjoyable as opposed to this
(06:09):
heightened pressure in needingto perform.
So I know that's a lofty goal,but that one I think is such a
pain point in US education, notjust US either, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I think it's unfortunately a little bit more
global.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, totally.
I wonder about the culturalperception of them.
It seems to be out of whackright now here.
But I agree with you.
I think it's that need toassess achievement.
When it becomes an obstacle toachievement, then it's kind of
backfiring.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Right, yeah, it's unfortunate.
Can we talk a little bit aboutbecause Christine and I in our
book talk about decluttering andless being better for people in
general right, just goingthrough the processes of
reducing the things around us,the things that take up
(07:04):
cognitive space, and so can yougive us a little insight in the
science behind the lesses?
Kind of that less is morethinking.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Totally.
What I love about thephilosophy to it really is
interdisciplinary.
There's lots of supportingresearch that I think you could
pull in, so I have a fewexamples, but I'm sure there's
way more than beyond what wecould talk about.
But one of the ones that I'mthinking about really relates to
attention, which we know is thefirst step in learning for our
(07:36):
brain's memory processes.
Whatever you're payingattention to is really where the
learning is going to begin on aneurobiological level, and
attention is so fragile in a lotof ways, and the more we
overload cognitively somethinglike cognitive load theory we
can quickly get overwhelmed andoverloaded, and it takes so much
(07:58):
longer to get back to a healthyheadspace that the more we have
overwhelming us, overloading uswhether it's emotionally,
cognitively that's going todamage our ability to pay
attention and learn and alsokind of go where we need to go,
as far as struggling andrebounding and being resilient.
If there's too much happeningfor us, it just slows down the
(08:20):
whole process.
So I think that's one of thepieces that I see for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And that feels really relevant for our students, but
also for the adults in thebuilding as well.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Oh my gosh, absolutely.
And I think too, the otherscience piece like that was more
of the cognitive side.
The emotional side is thefeeling of safety.
So do you feel regulated enoughto accomplish what's in front of
you.
And so if the amount of workyou have to do as an adult or as
a student feels like a threatwhich I would agree with you,
(08:54):
christine, I think it does feellike a threat for us as adults
Then you get into that survivalmode, your fight flight or
freeze mode.
Your amygdala is signaling outto your brain and sending
cortisol stress hormones allaround.
That's not a healthy brainspace to live in either to do
high quality work.
So I think you know when I tiebrain science into the less is
(09:15):
more.
Having an achievable amount ofwork in front of you or a space
that allows your brain to feelcalm and regulated and not
overwhelmed, that's where we getthe best quality and your brain
is more available for learningand creativity, higher order
thinking, when you have space toactually think.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yes, absolutely.
When you're working withteachers and administrators,
what are some of the protocolsor like learning engagements
that you engage yourparticipants in?
To really kind of bring thatpoint to front of mind?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
The idea that less is more.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, or like focusing attention on certain
things, on the things that wereally should be focusing on.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
For sure.
So two things come to mind.
The first is I try to have ourprofessional learning step way
back and look at education froma big picture instead of a small
picture.
When we're talking about brainscience, it's so global to all
humans, it applies to the waykindergartners think, it applies
(10:26):
to the way a new teacher or aveteran teacher thinks, or
superintendent.
So we're really talking bigpicture about these truths about
how our brains work, what istrue, what is not.
You know, thinking about mythslike learning styles or right
brain, left brain, or that weonly use 10% of our brain, and
just kind of shaking their coreknowledge about learning and the
(10:50):
brain so that it makes us lookreally differently at the small
decisions that we have in frontof us as leaders.
Like, oh, if you use 100% ofyour brain every day, how might
I need to rethink, you know, theway that we're categorizing
students in our school or theway I'm looking at this veteran
teacher who refuses to makechange in their practice if
(11:12):
their brains can learn newthings their entire life long.
So focusing on some of theseglobal truths about learning I
think helps kind of just reelourselves in as to what really
matters or what is true inlearning.
And then the other researchthat I've been bringing into my
work more is the science ofsubtraction, which comes from Dr
(11:34):
Lighty Klotz, who's atUniversity of Virginia, and what
I find so fascinating about hisresearch is he shows the
biological and sociologicalreasons as to why our default
mode is to add and that we thinkwe're solving problems by
adding, and that feels natural.
Our brain gets a kick ofdopamine when we add, like
(11:54):
there's all these reinforcers,and so even showing leaders the
science of the fact that ourbrains don't naturally subtract
is a helpful way to get intothis conversation.
To say you're in this state ofadd, add, add.
Science tells us you mightbenefit from taking some things
off the plate.
What could those things be?
And so that brings up somehealthy debate as well about
(12:18):
what things we're holding on tojust for sake of holding on to
them and not because they'reeducationally valuable anymore.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
We've got a section in the book about with the
urgent important matrix, and sowe encourage people to really
think about their priorities,about what's most urgent, what's
most important, and help themget that off their plate.
But we come across a lot ofeducators who are like
everything's important andeverything's urgent.
So do you have any tips orideas for people like that, who
(12:48):
are feeling in that mode thateverything's urgent and
important?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yes, I can totally empathize with that state of
mind because I think pressurefrom others makes you feel as
though it's all urgent andyou're going to get complaints.
You're going to get in troubleif you don't meet every request
with a high level of urgency.
But the truth is not.
Everything can be urgent.
It's just not true.
(13:13):
And it is an urgent.
So really helping people windback that belief system that
you're only human, you only havea certain number of hours in
the day.
Either you can spend the wholeday frustrated and anxious about
trying to do all those thingswhere you can pick a few and do
them really well and feel betterat the end of the day.
(13:33):
So forcing people uncomfortablyto prioritize and even to think
through the consequences of notfollowing through on some of
those quote unquote urgentthings, like what will actually
be the consequence if you dothis in three days instead of
today?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Is anyone going to?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
notice Right, like we work it up in our minds that
the whole world's going to fallapart.
But if you actually think itall the way through and then you
think, well, which is the onethat other people are relying on
, or there really are dominoeffects if I don't follow
through with these, that can bea helpful way to say, oh well,
maybe it's just in my mind, it'snot actually.
(14:13):
I don't have evidence that it'surgent.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
When you put it that way, that's such a valuable
point because that's something Iwould often say to my students.
You know, when something seemedlike a really big deal, like
you can't find the pencil orthere's no pencils left, or like
so and so took my whatever, andmy question to them was often
like, is this going to changeyour life?
(14:35):
And when they would say no,like it was almost like an
instant diffuser.
Right, so like, if we askourselves that same question, is
this going to change anybody'slife but my own?
Like my own kind of irrationalexpectation of myself?
Right, we put theseexpectations on ourselves that
(14:57):
are just like very lofty.
Yes, there's a lot of things todo, but, honestly, does it
matter to anybody else but us?
Right, like certain, we mighthave certain systems that we
think are being helpful, butthen realize, actually, this is
impeding me from really focusingon what I need to do, so I'm
(15:17):
going to ditch that.
So one of the things that Ifocus on at our school is like
quality of curriculum over likeall the things, like really
focusing on like I got to teachall these standards, and so this
kind of that idea makes methink of like quality is just so
much more important than doingall the things, because memory
(15:40):
research to support that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
To me, like everything you're talking about,
memory, shallow memories don'tstick.
So if you're trying to cram ina bunch of curriculum and you're
like, oh look, how much we did,and even they might have tested
fine, I always ask that youknow?
Provocative question Well, whatif you gave the test two to
three months later?
And chances are, if you'reskimming the curriculum, they're
(16:02):
going to forget a lot of itbecause it's not tapping long
term memory.
But what you're talking aboutwhen you prioritize higher
quality curriculum, that's goingto lead to longer term memories
and it's going to be moreeffective learning, for sure.
Another thing I was thinkingabout too, when you're saying,
like these systems that we mighthave overlooked, that also
(16:22):
makes me think of when we arereally entrenched or automated
in processes.
We're not aware of them anymore, so we can't even kind of
critically judge them with anobjective state of mind.
It's just a habit and we're noteven aware that we're doing it.
So sometimes having someoneelse be able to assess and say,
(16:42):
is that system really servingyou anymore, we may need an
outside person to help us dothat, because we're too close to
it.
We don't realize it might notbe working for us anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, I've been through that a few times, as you
know.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Did, oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, and just you know, just really thinking about
it, you do really have to stepback and talk to other people
about is this really serving usor are we just doing it because,
right, it is a habit and it'ssomething that we've always done
, and those are some of thosethings that we can take off
teachers plates or our ownplates.
We don't have to keep doingthose things just because we've
(17:20):
always done them.
If they're not useful, right,it's just another thing that
adds to the mental fatigue andthe it over.
It overwhelms us and we justdon't need to have those things.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
No, and it makes me think too I know we've talked in
the past about thattime-chunking strategy that if
you do similar things at thesame time, your brain is already
in the flow of doing that kindof thing, so it's less starting
and stopping.
I think you can alsoextrapolate that to
specialization for teams.
Like you're saying for teacherswhat can you take off their
(17:56):
plate so they can reallyspecialize in the thing that not
only they're really good at,but maybe they're also really
passionate about, which thenfuels their intrinsic motivation
and they get more quality outof what they're doing?
But one of those things I seehappening in schools now is
teachers getting overburdenedwith a lot of administrative
tasks and having to do dataentry or review the data, and
(18:19):
the more directions werestretched in, the less effective
we can be at our true specialty, I think.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Just going back a moment to the curriculum that we
were talking about.
You know a lot of schools thesedays.
We have outcomes or standardsthat we're working towards, but
schools often have a set ofvalues, or this is what we want
our learners to be like, or this.
You know those sorts ofprofiles.
What do you think about peoplewho feel like those values,
(18:47):
those learner profiles, are anadd-on there, an extra Versus,
like we really need to focus onthe content and the knowledge
and the skills.
What would you, what's yourtake on that sort of thing?
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Mmm.
What I do like about thoseprofile and portrait programs is
that they are there's, I think,supposed to be a vetting system
for decisions, values, contentthat are Adopted by a school
district, because it aligns withthe values or what the outcomes
are that a district wants fortheir students.
(19:21):
So I'm hoping it would never besomething extra.
It should be kind of theprocess for how to decide what
you do, when you do it, how youdo it.
So, for example, one of theschool districts I work with
here in Pennsylvania area isUnionville, chad's Ford School
District, and I partnered withthem I mean, all their district
(19:42):
came up with the portrait but Iwas sort of a facilitator and
partner to help extrapolateideas from the community and
help them synthesize.
And A lot of the qualities thatthey talked about were lifelong
learning of teachers, reallyembodying curiosity,
prioritizing character andsuccess of students in a
(20:02):
multitude of different ways.
So those should not be extrathings that are added to the
plate of a teacher, but whenfaced with competing priorities,
I guess to be able to look atthat portrait and say, well, we
really care about lifelonglearning and Curiosity and
character building.
So even if we don't get an Afrom the start.
It's more about the process,it's more about the experience,
(20:26):
so I would hope that thosethings would be a way to clarify
how to spend your time whenyou're sorting through the way
that the school day happensthings like that.
Can I ask you a question, or isthat, of course, you?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
can't.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah, I was gonna say what do you both think about
the portrait and the the profilework?
How do you see that in yourwork, layering within your
minimalist perspective?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, well, I'm a PYP coordinator, academic
coordinator at my school, and sothe learner profile is at the
core of everything that we'redoing and Really, we want to be
thinking about that alongsidethe skill of each lesson.
That would be.
My hope is that, you know,while we're working on map
(21:13):
reading skills, we're alsolearning how to be knowledgeable
or be communicators orcollaborators and things like
that.
So that would be.
My dream is that we're alwaysbringing those two elements
together at the same time.
That's that's what I'd love tosee, and really build those,
those skills that are gonnaserve the students for the rest
of their lives.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, same take and coming from that I be, you know,
teaching in the I be as well Atour school.
We have Four community pillars,so kind of those learner
profile and then skills too,that we want to explicitly teach
students within our content.
So in our planning process weare focusing not just on our
(21:59):
Unit content but also like howare we gonna teach our students
so that we can embed theseskills within it and make sure
we're developing you know,developing communicators and
collaborators and criticalthinkers.
So we do really keep that frontof mind as well, because we
know that they're more than justknowing what Pangea is.
So, you know, we want them tobe able to come away with the
(22:22):
skills that they need to if theywant to know more about it, you
know that they can go and dothat.
So, yeah, yeah, it's a part.
It's a part, it feels natural,right, it doesn't ever seem like
an extra thing.
I.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
No, and it sounds like it's the why behind your
what.
So if, whatever content you'rechoosing, there's a purpose
behind it which is to becritical thinker or be
collaborative or whatever itmight be, which again is more
motivating for students, I think, when they're always asking
well, why do we need to learnthis?
Those pillars and thoseprofiles seem like that's the
(22:56):
reason why and it will benefitthem later in life.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, thanks for that question.
Yeah, totally, as we bring ourepisode to a close, julia, we
always time flies.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I know we've done some we're having.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, we're having good conversations, but at the
end of an episode we always askour guests for a pair down
pointer.
So just a tip or two that helpsyou kind of focus on.
It might be something in yourpersonal life or professional
life that helps you just reallyfocus on the things that you
need to focus on.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
So this is for my own practice, or what I teach other
educators.
Whatever you want to share.
There's two that come to mind.
That's not very paired down,though I want to pick one just
to really subtract here.
So in my work at PLP we havewhat we call the six gears for
learning and leadershipframework, which, tammy, I know
you saw way back in its veryearliest iterations.
(23:52):
But these are six elements fromneuroscience, cognitive science
, educational, psychology thatto me are really paramount in
being an effective leader oreducator.
And the one gear that kind ofkicks off the whole sequence is
trust.
And so when I think abouteffective learning and
(24:13):
leadership, what the researchsuggests is if you have to start
anywhere, it's starting about,it's starting with building
trusting relationships with thepeople that you're engaging with
, because trust is almost like aon off switch for safety in the
brain.
The brain is trying to assesscan I be safe with you?
If I can be safe with you, Ican take risks, I can stretch, I
(24:35):
can learn, and if you're notsafe, then I'm going to guard
myself and I'm not really goingto push myself beyond where I am
.
So I think that science behindtrust is such an important
marker of where to begin in alearning or leadership
relationship.
Get to know people, buildrelationships with them.
Put yourself out there first bybeing vulnerable or taking a
(24:58):
risk, so people then meet youwhere you are.
I think trust is one of thosekey places to just keep in mind
in this field of education, thatour brains need it in order to
do the work we're expecting ofpeople.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Thank you, Julia.
That's a really powerful point.
Thank you so much for being aguest today Again.
Really, it was such a greatconversation.
Could keep talking about thesethings for a really long time.
So thanks again for being withus today.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Today's episode was brought to you by Professional
Learning Partnerships.
Professional LearningPartnerships empower educators
to transform learning leadershipand culture in school districts
by leveraging key ideas frombrain science, so that all
students can thrive.
Find out more atlearningpartnershipsorg.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the minimalisteducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Today we speak with Julia Skolnick about how we can
translate brain science into ourpractice as educators.
Her pared down pointer isstarting with building trust as
a leader or educator.
Julia Skolnick, MS Ed, is theCEO and founder of Professional
Learning Partnerships, PLP,which is an organization
(00:55):
dedicated to transforminglearning and leadership using
brain science through long-termpartnership with K-12 school
districts.
Building upon over 20 years ofexperience working in schools,
research laboratories andmuseums, Julia founded PLP to
empower educators and leaders toleverage brain science as a
tool for meaningfullytransforming learning,
leadership and culture in K-12schools.
(01:16):
A CEO and founder should createthe overarching vision for PLP,
designs innovative andresearch-based professional
learning programs and cultivatesustained partnerships with a
growing network of schooldistricts across the US.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of the Minimalist EducatorPodcast.
This week, our guest is JuliaSkolnick of Professional
Learning Partnerships.
Welcome, julia.
Hey, thanks for having me.
We're excited to have you heretoday because we have some
really aligned ideas andthoughts about how to approach
(01:56):
teaching and learning.
I think we're going to have agood little geek out session,
talking about the science behindthe thoughts of subtraction and
going with a less-as-moreapproach.
Can you talk a little bit about, maybe first of all, the things
(02:16):
that you do with ProfessionalLearning Partnerships?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
I lead an organization calledProfessional Learning
Partnerships, or PLP for short,and we partner with school
districts around the country toprioritize brain science and
education.
We aim to transform learningand leadership by empowering
educators to both understand andapply brain science to be able
(02:40):
to make more impactful decisionsin K-12 schools.
So partnerships look reallydifferent, and sometimes we're
training administrator teams andsometimes it's new teachers or
we have a think tank innovatorprogram where we bring solutions
minded teacher leaders together.
So it's a lot of differentforms that it takes, but that
goal of prioritizing brainscience and education is top of
(03:04):
mind.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
And where or how did you become interested in this?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah.
So my story kind of goes allthe way back to my training as a
elementary educator.
Being in college, I went toBrandeis University outside of
Boston, and half my course workis education and learning how to
be a teacher and the other halfis psychology and cognitive
science and learning about thebrain and learning and memory
(03:30):
and all of that, and hardly everdid those two paths cross.
I think there was onedevelopmental site class, but in
all of my experience abouteducation we were not talking
about the brain, we were nottalking about how learning works
, and even in my studentteaching I just had so many more
questions than I had answersabout how to do this really well
(03:54):
.
What's the evidence behindreally effective education.
So my career has taken a lot oftime to think about how to do so
.
My career has taken an unusualpath.
I've worked in research and inmemory labs, learning science
labs, I've worked in museums,I've worked in classrooms and
all the while kind of livingbetween these two worlds of
research and practice andeducation.
(04:16):
And that is, I think, the sweetspot in my passion area is
helping educators get the bestfrom the research world but
saving them as much time andpain as possible, because it can
be a painful process trying tosort through all the research
that's out there.
So that's the place I like tolive in between.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, there does seem to be a little bit of a gap
between the science, theresearch, and then what's
happening in our classrooms,doesn't there?
So yeah, I'm glad you're doingthat work for us, julia.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Thank you.
And to add on to the gap,there's a lot of misinformation
and bad science and, in all goodintentions, the education field
latches on sometimes to trendswithout the evidence behind it,
and so it's kind of like a gapplus misalignment on top of that
, which makes it extrachallenging.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah for sure, which actually I was just thinking.
Do you have something that yousee happening repeatedly
frequently in schools thatyou're like we got to stop,
don't do that anymore?
Is there something that comesto mind?
Probably a whole bunch.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
There's a laundry list of those things, but one
kind of institutional thing Iwas just listening to Hidden
Potential by Adam Grant and kindof has international lens on
education, and I think one ofthe things that really plagues
us in America is this intensetesting culture and the
(05:45):
assessment, the performance, howa lot of our success is gauged
in those scores, and so if wecould just throw out
standardized testing of allkinds, I know we'd see intrinsic
motivation boosts, teacherscould take a breath, parents
could take a breath, studentscould take a breath and it would
be just much more fun andenjoyable as opposed to this
(06:09):
heightened pressure in needingto perform.
So I know that's a lofty goal,but that one I think is such a
pain point in US education, notjust US either, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I think it's unfortunately a little bit more
global.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, totally.
I wonder about the culturalperception of them.
It seems to be out of whackright now here.
But I agree with you.
I think it's that need toassess achievement.
When it becomes an obstacle toachievement, then it's kind of
backfiring.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Right, yeah, it's unfortunate.
Can we talk a little bit aboutbecause Christine and I in our
book talk about decluttering andless being better for people in
general right, just goingthrough the processes of
reducing the things around us,the things that take up
(07:04):
cognitive space, and so can yougive us a little insight in the
science behind the lesses?
Kind of that less is morethinking.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Totally.
What I love about thephilosophy to it really is
interdisciplinary.
There's lots of supportingresearch that I think you could
pull in, so I have a fewexamples, but I'm sure there's
way more than beyond what wecould talk about.
But one of the ones that I'mthinking about really relates to
attention, which we know is thefirst step in learning for our
(07:36):
brain's memory processes.
Whatever you're payingattention to is really where the
learning is going to begin on aneurobiological level, and
attention is so fragile in a lotof ways, and the more we
overload cognitively somethinglike cognitive load theory we
can quickly get overwhelmed andoverloaded, and it takes so much
(07:58):
longer to get back to a healthyheadspace that the more we have
overwhelming us, overloading uswhether it's emotionally,
cognitively that's going todamage our ability to pay
attention and learn and alsokind of go where we need to go,
as far as struggling andrebounding and being resilient.
If there's too much happeningfor us, it just slows down the
(08:20):
whole process.
So I think that's one of thepieces that I see for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And that feels really relevant for our students, but
also for the adults in thebuilding as well.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Oh my gosh, absolutely.
And I think too, the otherscience piece like that was more
of the cognitive side.
The emotional side is thefeeling of safety.
So do you feel regulated enoughto accomplish what's in front of
you.
And so if the amount of workyou have to do as an adult or as
a student feels like a threatwhich I would agree with you,
(08:54):
christine, I think it does feellike a threat for us as adults
Then you get into that survivalmode, your fight flight or
freeze mode.
Your amygdala is signaling outto your brain and sending
cortisol stress hormones allaround.
That's not a healthy brainspace to live in either to do
high quality work.
So I think you know when I tiebrain science into the less is
(09:15):
more.
Having an achievable amount ofwork in front of you or a space
that allows your brain to feelcalm and regulated and not
overwhelmed, that's where we getthe best quality and your brain
is more available for learningand creativity, higher order
thinking, when you have space toactually think.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yes, absolutely.
When you're working withteachers and administrators,
what are some of the protocolsor like learning engagements
that you engage yourparticipants in?
To really kind of bring thatpoint to front of mind?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
The idea that less is more.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, or like focusing attention on certain
things, on the things that wereally should be focusing on.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
For sure.
So two things come to mind.
The first is I try to have ourprofessional learning step way
back and look at education froma big picture instead of a small
picture.
When we're talking about brainscience, it's so global to all
humans, it applies to the waykindergartners think, it applies
(10:26):
to the way a new teacher or aveteran teacher thinks, or
superintendent.
So we're really talking bigpicture about these truths about
how our brains work, what istrue, what is not.
You know, thinking about mythslike learning styles or right
brain, left brain, or that weonly use 10% of our brain, and
just kind of shaking their coreknowledge about learning and the
(10:50):
brain so that it makes us lookreally differently at the small
decisions that we have in frontof us as leaders.
Like, oh, if you use 100% ofyour brain every day, how might
I need to rethink, you know, theway that we're categorizing
students in our school or theway I'm looking at this veteran
teacher who refuses to makechange in their practice if
(11:12):
their brains can learn newthings their entire life long.
So focusing on some of theseglobal truths about learning I
think helps kind of just reelourselves in as to what really
matters or what is true inlearning.
And then the other researchthat I've been bringing into my
work more is the science ofsubtraction, which comes from Dr
(11:34):
Lighty Klotz, who's atUniversity of Virginia, and what
I find so fascinating about hisresearch is he shows the
biological and sociologicalreasons as to why our default
mode is to add and that we thinkwe're solving problems by
adding, and that feels natural.
Our brain gets a kick ofdopamine when we add, like
(11:54):
there's all these reinforcers,and so even showing leaders the
science of the fact that ourbrains don't naturally subtract
is a helpful way to get intothis conversation.
To say you're in this state ofadd, add, add.
Science tells us you mightbenefit from taking some things
off the plate.
What could those things be?
And so that brings up somehealthy debate as well about
(12:18):
what things we're holding on tojust for sake of holding on to
them and not because they'reeducationally valuable anymore.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
We've got a section in the book about with the
urgent important matrix, and sowe encourage people to really
think about their priorities,about what's most urgent, what's
most important, and help themget that off their plate.
But we come across a lot ofeducators who are like
everything's important andeverything's urgent.
So do you have any tips orideas for people like that, who
(12:48):
are feeling in that mode thateverything's urgent and
important?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yes, I can totally empathize with that state of
mind because I think pressurefrom others makes you feel as
though it's all urgent andyou're going to get complaints.
You're going to get in troubleif you don't meet every request
with a high level of urgency.
But the truth is not.
Everything can be urgent.
It's just not true.
(13:13):
And it is an urgent.
So really helping people windback that belief system that
you're only human, you only havea certain number of hours in
the day.
Either you can spend the wholeday frustrated and anxious about
trying to do all those thingswhere you can pick a few and do
them really well and feel betterat the end of the day.
(13:33):
So forcing people uncomfortablyto prioritize and even to think
through the consequences of notfollowing through on some of
those quote unquote urgentthings, like what will actually
be the consequence if you dothis in three days instead of
today?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Is anyone going to?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
notice Right, like we work it up in our minds that
the whole world's going to fallapart.
But if you actually think itall the way through and then you
think, well, which is the onethat other people are relying on
, or there really are dominoeffects if I don't follow
through with these, that can bea helpful way to say, oh well,
maybe it's just in my mind, it'snot actually.
(14:13):
I don't have evidence that it'surgent.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
When you put it that way, that's such a valuable
point because that's something Iwould often say to my students.
You know, when something seemedlike a really big deal, like
you can't find the pencil orthere's no pencils left, or like
so and so took my whatever, andmy question to them was often
like, is this going to changeyour life?
(14:35):
And when they would say no,like it was almost like an
instant diffuser.
Right, so like, if we askourselves that same question, is
this going to change anybody'slife but my own?
Like my own kind of irrationalexpectation of myself?
Right, we put theseexpectations on ourselves that
(14:57):
are just like very lofty.
Yes, there's a lot of things todo, but, honestly, does it
matter to anybody else but us?
Right, like certain, we mighthave certain systems that we
think are being helpful, butthen realize, actually, this is
impeding me from really focusingon what I need to do, so I'm
(15:17):
going to ditch that.
So one of the things that Ifocus on at our school is like
quality of curriculum over likeall the things, like really
focusing on like I got to teachall these standards, and so this
kind of that idea makes methink of like quality is just so
much more important than doingall the things, because memory
(15:40):
research to support that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
To me, like everything you're talking about,
memory, shallow memories don'tstick.
So if you're trying to cram ina bunch of curriculum and you're
like, oh look, how much we did,and even they might have tested
fine, I always ask that youknow?
Provocative question Well, whatif you gave the test two to
three months later?
And chances are, if you'reskimming the curriculum, they're
(16:02):
going to forget a lot of itbecause it's not tapping long
term memory.
But what you're talking aboutwhen you prioritize higher
quality curriculum, that's goingto lead to longer term memories
and it's going to be moreeffective learning, for sure.
Another thing I was thinkingabout too, when you're saying,
like these systems that we mighthave overlooked, that also
(16:22):
makes me think of when we arereally entrenched or automated
in processes.
We're not aware of them anymore, so we can't even kind of
critically judge them with anobjective state of mind.
It's just a habit and we're noteven aware that we're doing it.
So sometimes having someoneelse be able to assess and say,
(16:42):
is that system really servingyou anymore, we may need an
outside person to help us dothat, because we're too close to
it.
We don't realize it might notbe working for us anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, I've been through that a few times, as you
know.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Did, oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, and just you know, just really thinking about
it, you do really have to stepback and talk to other people
about is this really serving usor are we just doing it because,
right, it is a habit and it'ssomething that we've always done
, and those are some of thosethings that we can take off
teachers plates or our ownplates.
We don't have to keep doingthose things just because we've
(17:20):
always done them.
If they're not useful, right,it's just another thing that
adds to the mental fatigue andthe it over.
It overwhelms us and we justdon't need to have those things.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
No, and it makes me think too I know we've talked in
the past about thattime-chunking strategy that if
you do similar things at thesame time, your brain is already
in the flow of doing that kindof thing, so it's less starting
and stopping.
I think you can alsoextrapolate that to
specialization for teams.
Like you're saying for teacherswhat can you take off their
(17:56):
plate so they can reallyspecialize in the thing that not
only they're really good at,but maybe they're also really
passionate about, which thenfuels their intrinsic motivation
and they get more quality outof what they're doing?
But one of those things I seehappening in schools now is
teachers getting overburdenedwith a lot of administrative
tasks and having to do dataentry or review the data, and
(18:19):
the more directions werestretched in, the less effective
we can be at our true specialty, I think.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Just going back a moment to the curriculum that we
were talking about.
You know a lot of schools thesedays.
We have outcomes or standardsthat we're working towards, but
schools often have a set ofvalues, or this is what we want
our learners to be like, or this.
You know those sorts ofprofiles.
What do you think about peoplewho feel like those values,
(18:47):
those learner profiles, are anadd-on there, an extra Versus,
like we really need to focus onthe content and the knowledge
and the skills.
What would you, what's yourtake on that sort of thing?
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Mmm.
What I do like about thoseprofile and portrait programs is
that they are there's, I think,supposed to be a vetting system
for decisions, values, contentthat are Adopted by a school
district, because it aligns withthe values or what the outcomes
are that a district wants fortheir students.
(19:21):
So I'm hoping it would never besomething extra.
It should be kind of theprocess for how to decide what
you do, when you do it, how youdo it.
So, for example, one of theschool districts I work with
here in Pennsylvania area isUnionville, chad's Ford School
District, and I partnered withthem I mean, all their district
(19:42):
came up with the portrait but Iwas sort of a facilitator and
partner to help extrapolateideas from the community and
help them synthesize.
And A lot of the qualities thatthey talked about were lifelong
learning of teachers, reallyembodying curiosity,
prioritizing character andsuccess of students in a
(20:02):
multitude of different ways.
So those should not be extrathings that are added to the
plate of a teacher, but whenfaced with competing priorities,
I guess to be able to look atthat portrait and say, well, we
really care about lifelonglearning and Curiosity and
character building.
So even if we don't get an Afrom the start.
It's more about the process,it's more about the experience,
(20:26):
so I would hope that thosethings would be a way to clarify
how to spend your time whenyou're sorting through the way
that the school day happensthings like that.
Can I ask you a question, or isthat, of course, you?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
can't.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah, I was gonna say what do you both think about
the portrait and the the profilework?
How do you see that in yourwork, layering within your
minimalist perspective?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, well, I'm a PYP coordinator, academic
coordinator at my school, and sothe learner profile is at the
core of everything that we'redoing and Really, we want to be
thinking about that alongsidethe skill of each lesson.
That would be.
My hope is that, you know,while we're working on map
(21:13):
reading skills, we're alsolearning how to be knowledgeable
or be communicators orcollaborators and things like
that.
So that would be.
My dream is that we're alwaysbringing those two elements
together at the same time.
That's that's what I'd love tosee, and really build those,
those skills that are gonnaserve the students for the rest
of their lives.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, same take and coming from that I be, you know,
teaching in the I be as well Atour school.
We have Four community pillars,so kind of those learner
profile and then skills too,that we want to explicitly teach
students within our content.
So in our planning process weare focusing not just on our
(21:59):
Unit content but also like howare we gonna teach our students
so that we can embed theseskills within it and make sure
we're developing you know,developing communicators and
collaborators and criticalthinkers.
So we do really keep that frontof mind as well, because we
know that they're more than justknowing what Pangea is.
So, you know, we want them tobe able to come away with the
(22:22):
skills that they need to if theywant to know more about it, you
know that they can go and dothat.
So, yeah, yeah, it's a part.
It's a part, it feels natural,right, it doesn't ever seem like
an extra thing.
I.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
No, and it sounds like it's the why behind your
what.
So if, whatever content you'rechoosing, there's a purpose
behind it which is to becritical thinker or be
collaborative or whatever itmight be, which again is more
motivating for students, I think, when they're always asking
well, why do we need to learnthis?
Those pillars and thoseprofiles seem like that's the
(22:56):
reason why and it will benefitthem later in life.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, thanks for that question.
Yeah, totally, as we bring ourepisode to a close, julia, we
always time flies.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I know we've done some we're having.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, we're having good conversations, but at the
end of an episode we always askour guests for a pair down
pointer.
So just a tip or two that helpsyou kind of focus on.
It might be something in yourpersonal life or professional
life that helps you just reallyfocus on the things that you
need to focus on.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
So this is for my own practice, or what I teach other
educators.
Whatever you want to share.
There's two that come to mind.
That's not very paired down,though I want to pick one just
to really subtract here.
So in my work at PLP we havewhat we call the six gears for
learning and leadershipframework, which, tammy, I know
you saw way back in its veryearliest iterations.
(23:52):
But these are six elements fromneuroscience, cognitive science
, educational, psychology thatto me are really paramount in
being an effective leader oreducator.
And the one gear that kind ofkicks off the whole sequence is
trust.
And so when I think abouteffective learning and
(24:13):
leadership, what the researchsuggests is if you have to start
anywhere, it's starting about,it's starting with building
trusting relationships with thepeople that you're engaging with
, because trust is almost like aon off switch for safety in the
brain.
The brain is trying to assesscan I be safe with you?
If I can be safe with you, Ican take risks, I can stretch, I
(24:35):
can learn, and if you're notsafe, then I'm going to guard
myself and I'm not really goingto push myself beyond where I am
.
So I think that science behindtrust is such an important
marker of where to begin in alearning or leadership
relationship.
Get to know people, buildrelationships with them.
Put yourself out there first bybeing vulnerable or taking a
(24:58):
risk, so people then meet youwhere you are.
I think trust is one of thosekey places to just keep in mind
in this field of education, thatour brains need it in order to
do the work we're expecting ofpeople.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Thank you, Julia.
That's a really powerful point.
Thank you so much for being aguest today Again.
Really, it was such a greatconversation.
Could keep talking about thesethings for a really long time.
So thanks again for being withus today.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Today's episode was brought to you by Professional
Learning Partnerships.
Professional LearningPartnerships empower educators
to transform learning leadershipand culture in school districts
by leveraging key ideas frombrain science, so that all
students can thrive.
Find out more atlearningpartnershipsorg.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the minimalisteducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.