May 14, 2024 • 24 mins
Unlock the secrets of Professional Learning Communities with Dr. Lori Stollar, a seasoned expert who joins us to illuminate the transformative power of PLCs in education. Shedding light on the essence of effective collaboration, Laurie dismantles the myths that have long shrouded PLCs, guiding us through the pivotal shift from a traditional teaching-centric model to a dynamic learning-centric system. In our enlightening exchange, we confront the real challenges educators face in molding a united front aimed at boosting student outcomes and discuss the game-changing effects when teachers are given the reigns to steer their professional development.
Look toward the educational horizon with us as we delve into the evolving landscape of PLCs, where breaking down silos isn't just a goal, it's a reality. Lori bestows her wisdom on the catalytic role of collective efficacy and the intrinsic value of social capital in customizing education for every learner. We equip you with strategies to keep your mission in sharp focus and to select actions that resonate with your core objectives. By the end of our discussion, you'll be inspired by the potential of PLCs to reshape not only your approach to teaching but also the very fabric of learning organizations, all while reflecting on the minimalist principles that can refine educational practices.
Lori Stollar is an educator with over 35 years of experience as a high school social studies teacher, district administrator, intermediate unit leader, and adjunct professor. In 2021, she retired from public education where she most recently served as the Director of Curriculum and Innovation. Since then Lori has consulted with schools and districts on the topics of Whole Child Education, Social Emotional Learning, and Teacher Supervision and Evaluation. She is passionate about helping teachers and school leaders positively impact student learning. Lori is the Executive Director of Pennsylvania ASCD, whose mission is to inspire educators to lead, learn, and advocate for educational impact.
Lori holds a B.S. in Education, an M.Ed. in Teaching and Curriculum, a PK-12 Principal Certification, and a Superintendent’s Letter of Eligibility. In 2014, she earned her doctorate in School Systems Leadership from Widener University. Her research interests include professional learning communities, collective efficacy, and classroom instruction.
This episode is sponsored by Pennsylvania ASCD; an organization committed to the improvement of curriculum development, supervision, instruction, promotion of professional growth, and education of children.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about pairing down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Today we speak with Laurie about productive PLCs, or
professional learningcommunities.
She shares what is needed tocreate successful PLCs and her
pair down pointer reminds us totake it one step at a time.
Laurie Stuller is an educatorwith over 35 years of experience
as a high school social studiesteacher, district administrator
(00:56):
, intermediate unit leaner andadjunct professor.
In 2021, she retired frompublic education, where she most
recently served as the Directorof Curriculum and Innovation.
Since then, laurie hasconsulted with schools and
districts on the topics of wholechild education,
social-emotional learning andteacher supervision and
evaluation.
(01:16):
She is passionate about helpingteachers and school leaders
positively impact studentlearning.
Laurie is the ExecutiveDirector of Pennsylvania ASCD,
whose mission is to inspireeducators to lead, learn and
advocate for educational impact.
Laurie holds a BS in Educationand MED in Teaching and
Curriculum, a PK-12 PrincipalCertification and a
(01:40):
Superintendent's Letter ofEligibility.
In 2014, she earned herDoctorate in School Systems
Leadership from WidenerUniversity.
Her research interests includeprofessional learning
communities, collective efficacyand classroom instruction.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Welcome everyone to today's episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Today we are excited to havewith us Dr Laurie Stuller from
Pennsylvania.
Hi Laurie, welcome to the show.
Hi, nice to be here.
How are you today?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I'm great Little chilly here in Pennsylvania
today.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That seems to be the trend in the Northeast.
Yes, how are you, christine?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I am doing well, and how are you Tummy?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm pretty well.
It's always nice to chat withamazing people on the podcast,
so I'm excited to talk to Laurietoday.
Today we are talking aboutLaurie's work with PLCs, which I
think can be one of thoseacronyms that can be really
(02:49):
exciting for some educators hereand for some kind of scary or
cringy, because there's justalways so much work to do in
education.
But PLCs is one of those thingsthat we believe is super
important to create strongcultures of learning for adults
in schools.
So, laurie, can you tell usbecause you wrote your
(03:11):
dissertation on PLC work andthen you were able to bridge
that into implementation, whichis a really hard thing to do so,
if you can talk a little bitabout your research and how you
built out some of thosestructures in your region?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Absolutely, and I think back.
I'm not even sure what theoriginal impetus was for my
first attraction, but in theearly 2000s PLC was getting a
lot of traction.
The Defors and Acre had writtentheir PLCs at workbook in the
(03:50):
late 90s and I saw in the early2000s how it started to gain
traction.
And at that point I was workingat a Pennsylvania Intermediate
Unit, which is what we call oureducational service agencies,
and so I was working with 25different school districts
across a three county region andthere was a lot of chatter
(04:13):
about PLCs and what it was andhow it could be a process or a
framework to help schoolimprovement, that continuous
improvement.
And Tammi, you hit the nail onthe head when you said everybody
can banter around the term PLCsand it means different things
(04:35):
to different people and peopleimplement it differently, which
I think leads to some of thewatering down or what Defor and
Reeves referred to as PLC light,because we know that just
putting a group of teachers in ameeting space and saying, well,
(04:58):
now you're a PLC doesn't work.
That's not what a true PLC is.
I think that really piqued myinterest and that became then
the focus of my research.
We had a district which becamemy study district, who, of
course, shall remain nameless,but they were like 100% in on
(05:22):
PLCs, probably one of the earlyadopters in our region, and I
had the fortune of going thereand I had been going there in my
work through the intermediateunit to provide professional
development and work with themon state initiatives, and I
could see firsthand the impactof being a true professional
learning community a group ofindividuals who are involved in
(05:45):
those recurring cycles ofinquiry that lead to continuous
improvement and it's really thatfocus on learning.
When a group comes together andthey have that unyielding focus
on student learning, yourschools become places of
(06:07):
learning, not places of teaching, and I could see that shift in
that specific district and sohaving the opportunity to, and
really the privilege to, divedeeply into what they were doing
and to interview staff and dosome surveys and collect some
data really was able to fuel myresearch.
(06:31):
And then, as you indicated,tammy, when I left the
intermediate unit and actuallywent to a school district, we
were able to take the the ideaof a professional learning
community and really take thatfrom theory to practice in our
own structure.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I'd love to hear more about the role of agency within
PLCs.
As we've mentioned there thatyou know, you have some
situations where you're toldyou're doing this PLC and then
you might have a situation whereit's everyone is going to do a
PLC, but you can choose the area, the topic, you know the focus
for your PLC, but then a lot ofpeople just naturally engage in
(07:12):
PLCs themselves.
So what do you think the, therole of agency and ownership in
the direction of these thingsplays?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
That's a great question, christine.
An agency is probably that's anewer buzzword certainly, but
you know, as I reflect back, andyou always have those early
adopters and then you alwayshave those stragglers who you're
trying to bring along.
You know, if there's notownership in what you're doing,
(07:44):
it doesn't matter whatinitiative or you know I know
that word gets a bad rap as wellbut it doesn't matter what
you're trying to implement Ifyou don't have that buy-in, that
commitment from people to makeit work and you provide them the
resources and the informationthat they need to be successful,
(08:04):
it's not going to fly.
So, speaking from my experiencein the district, the
superintendent and I worked witha brilliant superintendent you
know we really primed the pumpfor at least two, if not well,
for two years, I guess it was,if I think back to the year
(08:27):
start to blur together, but wereally had a guiding coalition
of educators that we wereworking with, exposing them to
research, listening to what theyhad to say and really bringing
them along and educating them aswell as then educating our
(08:50):
school board and our community.
Because there does have to bethat commitment to what you're
doing and in the case of thedistrict from which I retired,
we totally restructured theschool day.
Now you want to talk aboutdisrupting lives in a community
and for educators themselves.
If you're going to change thestart and the end time of the
(09:11):
school day, you need to havethat buy-in and that agency,
that ownership, to make ithappen.
So I think that without thatdeep desire of people to do it
and to know why they're doing it, you know we're not doing it
because, well, that's the latestbuzzword and we've all been
(09:33):
there in education.
You know you have thoseeducators who say, yeah, new
superintendent, new director,curriculum, we'll just wait them
out because they'll eventuallyleave and this will all go away.
You know DeFore and Iker wrotetheir book.
It's been 25 years.
That term is still very wellknown, very widely respected,
(09:54):
and there's now research andhundreds of schools who have
been labeled as model schools.
Who can, you know, really attestto the power of having these
learning organizations focusedon learning and helping students
achieve all students achieveand what that really means.
(10:16):
So I probably strayed away fromyour initial question,
christine, but yes, I think it'sownership really, and but
providing the resources.
If teachers don't know whatthey're supposed to do in that
time, then, left to their owndevices.
They'll be planning field tripsand talking about the
(10:37):
discipline problems that they'rehaving.
So how do you, how do youprovide a structure for them?
How do you provide theresources and the supports, and
how do you provide the resourcesand the supports that they need
to be successful so that theycan really focus on student
learning, which involves adultlearning?
We, as the adults, have to bethe continuous learner as well.
(10:58):
We can't do 35 years ineducation and do the first year
35 times.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You kind of stole the question right out of my mind,
laurie, because you were talkingabout you know.
You have to provide some kindof structure, because then your
PLC, you know, goes wayward.
So providing that kind of youknow agency can be scary for
teachers, right, becausesometimes it is very open, like
(11:31):
you just need to take ownershipof like whatever it is you're
learning and la la la.
But that's really hard,especially, you know, on the
teacher's end, and then we wantthem to do it, you know, within
their classroom with theirstudents.
So if they're not experiencingit, then it's probably not going
to happen in their classroomsMaybe.
(11:51):
I mean, I don't want to overgeneralize, but what kind of
structures have you provided inyour work that can give a sense
of comfort to people working intheir PLCs but also like
eventually it's like okay,they'll be on their way and they
can get working?
Because it is a bit likenebulous, I guess, where you're
(12:13):
just kind of openly discoveringwhat you need to learn to
improve as a teacher or likewhatever the learning cycle is
or the inquiry is.
Yeah, and that's a bit scary asa teacher too, because
sometimes we just want to betold what to do.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Absolutely right.
I know there are times we justwant to be left alone, right?
Yes, in a professional learningcommunity it's built on that
collaboration, thatinterdependency and the fact
that together, alone I'm smart,but together we're brilliant.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
But the structure is Tammy.
I think time is number one.
Teachers must be provided thetime to be able to meet and meet
deeply it.
You know, 20 minutes once aweek isn't going to be the kind
of time they need.
And you know, we all know theresearch and it talks about how
(13:12):
much time teachers in the UnitedStates spend in front of
students, versus other placeslike, you know, singapore or
Japan, or where teachers arespending time collaborating and
working together.
So I indicated before that whenwe implemented PLCs in the
(13:32):
district in which I worked, wetotally changed the school day.
So time is the first thing youmust be able to provide and you
have to be willing to dowhatever it takes to provide
that time, whether that'srestructuring the school day,
like we did, or hiringsubstitutes which is even more
difficult now and in the erathat we're living in or having a
(13:56):
kind of culture where peopleare able to and willing to, you
know, rotate in and cover, ifyou will, for one another.
Whatever it is, you have tofind time, time.
Time is like the number onestructure that you have to put
in place Resources.
So, again, speaking fromexperience, we learn best when
(14:18):
we're all together, but we needthe information and the
knowledge and the know-how.
So often, you know, obviouslythings are.
You can find anything on theinternet today and you know,
good or bad, and there's a youknow, certainly a wealth of
information there.
But when you talk about thequestions of a PLC, you know the
(14:41):
first question in a PLC is whatdo we want students to know and
be able to do?
And that parkens back to havingthat guaranteed and viable
curriculum.
In the words of Marzano, ittalks about curriculum design,
being able to unpack thestandards.
That's a lot of time and effortin itself If you think about
(15:02):
what it takes to create thatguaranteed and viable curriculum
so we can identify what it iswe want students to know and be
able to do.
There's multiple pieces there.
So in that example, being ableto provide instructional coaches
for the teachers we had a greatwealth of instructional coaches
(15:24):
, especially on the ELA side.
Little more difficult even tofind them in the math side.
But the coaches that we had thereading specialists and whatnot
were able to.
They had the time.
We were able to give them timewhere they were able to
prioritize some of thatcurriculum, unpack the standards
and then become part of thoselearning community times and
(15:48):
share some of that informationwith the teachers.
So that's an example of a humanresource that we could provide
to the teachers, giving them thesupport of an instructional
coach, which again is aprivilege.
You're not always in asituation to be able to do that,
but money will spend.
And again, you can't just throwpeople in a space and say go me,
(16:08):
be successful, go, change theworld.
You need time for that group towork together and to establish
a shared mission, vision.
Those beliefs, the trust, thetrust, the respect is so
important there.
So creating time and structuresto allow them to become a
(16:30):
cohesive group.
And then, of course, strategicleadership.
So, and how you balance that?
What's the tight loose?
You talk about that tighterloose coupling.
As the director of curriculum,I was able to go and be part of
those meetings.
(16:50):
But how do you do that and notbe seen as, oh, I'm here to
check up on you or you know thisisn't a gotcha moment how am I
here to support you?
What can I contribute to thatgroup meeting?
Strategic leadership, providingthose supports, those times, is
another critical, criticalpiece, I think, in the success
(17:11):
of a professional learningcommunity.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And do you say the PLCs have been around for 20
years or more.
I'm wondering what significantchanges you've seen with PLCs
over that time and also where doyou think it's going in the
future.
What do you see the future ofPLCs to be?
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Hmm, successes and where I see it going.
That's an interesting.
That's going to make me think,christine.
Again, I truly believe in thepower of PLCs.
If I didn't, I wouldn't havespent several years researching
and delving into the researchand then, of course, going to a
(17:52):
district and implementing it,because I saw power in there.
When teachers work together, youknow the collective efficacy,
the belief that they can.
When they start to see success,you know, then you get to that
tipping point and I think theybecome even more motivated.
But that social capital, whatwe learn by being a group and I
(18:19):
read an article, you know, yearsago which I think really stuck
with me and I now it's dated,it's 12 years old but I still
cite it and it talked about themissing link in school reform is
social capital, what teacherslearn from one another when
they're together.
And that's to me what a PLC is,and it's just as much, if not
(18:40):
more so, maybe, about the adultlearning than it is about the
student learning and being ableto, for teachers to be willing
to be vulnerable.
And because you really areexposing yourself, you know, if
you would have said to me, youknow, 35 years ago, when I was a
brand new teacher and weprobably all have these moments
(19:02):
where we think back and go like,oh, I was horrible, like I
wouldn't have wanted my datashared with the people next door
to me, which really talkedabout those silos and that that
closed community we had aseducators.
So I think you know creatingthe conditions where you're
willing to be vulnerable and putyourself out there and realize
(19:24):
it's not about you but it'sabout the student learning.
How do we, how do we create theenvironment where we're looking
at data we're not talking aboutLori or Tammy or Christine and
how do we create the conditionsfor that to happen?
So I think I've seen more of thebreaking down of those silos in
(19:44):
education.
I think that some of it comesfrom the idea of professional
learning communities beinglearning organizations where we
can truly impact change.
As far as the future, I wouldonly hope that it continues to
to grow and evolve and morph,because we know that.
(20:06):
You know, plc is at work.
When you look at questionsthree and four, which are about
what do we do when studentsdon't learn it and what do we do
when they already know itreally lends itself to
intervention and enrichment.
To me, that's thedifferentiation, the
personalization that we want tosee education moving towards, so
(20:29):
that each child has a chance toto be successful, to maximize
their own potential, whateverthat may be.
So I would hope that that thestructure of a professional
learning community or a learningorganization would help lead to
more student success.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
That's a perfect segue into how we wrap up our
show.
We always ask our guests for apair down pointer, and I feel
like kind of thinkingfuturistically about PLCs and
the direction that they canpotentially go, because I think
you're right, lori, like I thinkthat teachers have really kind
of you know, silos are comingdown and it's kind of fun to
(21:11):
learn together, right Like we'resocial beings, we need to
interact with each other, wewant to talk to each other, we
want to learn from each other,and once we build that trust
with each other, it becomes mucheasier to be able to do that
work together.
So you've given us lots ofnuggets to think about, so we
want you to now pick out one ofthose or a different pair down
(21:33):
pointer that you would want toshare with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think it's very old cliche, but you know, it's just
, it's one step at a time.
As far as the PLC it can be,anything you do is overwhelming.
So I think you have to reallydistill it down to you know what
is my priority, what is my goal, why am I doing this?
And then what do I need to putin place to be successful?
(21:58):
And how do you keep out therest of the noise?
I mean, you can relate that toemail, I think technology, email
, social media you know it canjust distract us and pull us
away from our true focus andwhere we need to be.
So I would say, to really drilldown to what is my purpose, why
(22:23):
am I doing this?
And then what do I need to getthere and try and block out the
others, and if the rest ofwhat's coming at you isn't
related tightly to where you'regoing, give yourself permission
to say, no, we're not going todo that, we're not going to put
(22:45):
something else on the platebecause there's only so much
room on the plate.
So we have to pick and choosethose items which we know will
get us where we need to be andlet the rest of it fall away.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, Laurie.
Thank you for being with ustoday.
Well you're most welcome.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I actually enjoyed resurrecting some of my research
and reminding myself of myjourney, and you know the power
of what I saw happen in mydistrict, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Today's episode was brought to you by Pennsylvania
ASCD.
Pennsylvania ASCD is anorganization committed to the
improvement of curriculumdevelopment, supervision,
instruction, promotion ofprofessional growth and
education of children.
As a state affiliate of ASCD,our organization promotes
quality leadership by providingtimely programs and services to
(23:42):
our membership.
Pennsylvania ASCD is the proudrecipient of the 2011 ASCD
Affiliate Excellence Award.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about pairing down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Today we speak with Laurie about productive PLCs, or
professional learningcommunities.
She shares what is needed tocreate successful PLCs and her
pair down pointer reminds us totake it one step at a time.
Laurie Stuller is an educatorwith over 35 years of experience
as a high school social studiesteacher, district administrator
(00:56):
, intermediate unit leaner andadjunct professor.
In 2021, she retired frompublic education, where she most
recently served as the Directorof Curriculum and Innovation.
Since then, laurie hasconsulted with schools and
districts on the topics of wholechild education,
social-emotional learning andteacher supervision and
evaluation.
(01:16):
She is passionate about helpingteachers and school leaders
positively impact studentlearning.
Laurie is the ExecutiveDirector of Pennsylvania ASCD,
whose mission is to inspireeducators to lead, learn and
advocate for educational impact.
Laurie holds a BS in Educationand MED in Teaching and
Curriculum, a PK-12 PrincipalCertification and a
(01:40):
Superintendent's Letter ofEligibility.
In 2014, she earned herDoctorate in School Systems
Leadership from WidenerUniversity.
Her research interests includeprofessional learning
communities, collective efficacyand classroom instruction.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Welcome everyone to today's episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Today we are excited to havewith us Dr Laurie Stuller from
Pennsylvania.
Hi Laurie, welcome to the show.
Hi, nice to be here.
How are you today?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I'm great Little chilly here in Pennsylvania
today.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That seems to be the trend in the Northeast.
Yes, how are you, christine?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I am doing well, and how are you Tummy?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm pretty well.
It's always nice to chat withamazing people on the podcast,
so I'm excited to talk to Laurietoday.
Today we are talking aboutLaurie's work with PLCs, which I
think can be one of thoseacronyms that can be really
(02:49):
exciting for some educators hereand for some kind of scary or
cringy, because there's justalways so much work to do in
education.
But PLCs is one of those thingsthat we believe is super
important to create strongcultures of learning for adults
in schools.
So, laurie, can you tell usbecause you wrote your
(03:11):
dissertation on PLC work andthen you were able to bridge
that into implementation, whichis a really hard thing to do so,
if you can talk a little bitabout your research and how you
built out some of thosestructures in your region?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Absolutely, and I think back.
I'm not even sure what theoriginal impetus was for my
first attraction, but in theearly 2000s PLC was getting a
lot of traction.
The Defors and Acre had writtentheir PLCs at workbook in the
(03:50):
late 90s and I saw in the early2000s how it started to gain
traction.
And at that point I was workingat a Pennsylvania Intermediate
Unit, which is what we call oureducational service agencies,
and so I was working with 25different school districts
across a three county region andthere was a lot of chatter
(04:13):
about PLCs and what it was andhow it could be a process or a
framework to help schoolimprovement, that continuous
improvement.
And Tammi, you hit the nail onthe head when you said everybody
can banter around the term PLCsand it means different things
(04:35):
to different people and peopleimplement it differently, which
I think leads to some of thewatering down or what Defor and
Reeves referred to as PLC light,because we know that just
putting a group of teachers in ameeting space and saying, well,
(04:58):
now you're a PLC doesn't work.
That's not what a true PLC is.
I think that really piqued myinterest and that became then
the focus of my research.
We had a district which becamemy study district, who, of
course, shall remain nameless,but they were like 100% in on
(05:22):
PLCs, probably one of the earlyadopters in our region, and I
had the fortune of going thereand I had been going there in my
work through the intermediateunit to provide professional
development and work with themon state initiatives, and I
could see firsthand the impactof being a true professional
learning community a group ofindividuals who are involved in
(05:45):
those recurring cycles ofinquiry that lead to continuous
improvement and it's really thatfocus on learning.
When a group comes together andthey have that unyielding focus
on student learning, yourschools become places of
(06:07):
learning, not places of teaching, and I could see that shift in
that specific district and sohaving the opportunity to, and
really the privilege to, divedeeply into what they were doing
and to interview staff and dosome surveys and collect some
data really was able to fuel myresearch.
(06:31):
And then, as you indicated,tammy, when I left the
intermediate unit and actuallywent to a school district, we
were able to take the the ideaof a professional learning
community and really take thatfrom theory to practice in our
own structure.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I'd love to hear more about the role of agency within
PLCs.
As we've mentioned there thatyou know, you have some
situations where you're toldyou're doing this PLC and then
you might have a situation whereit's everyone is going to do a
PLC, but you can choose the area, the topic, you know the focus
for your PLC, but then a lot ofpeople just naturally engage in
(07:12):
PLCs themselves.
So what do you think the, therole of agency and ownership in
the direction of these thingsplays?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
That's a great question, christine.
An agency is probably that's anewer buzzword certainly, but
you know, as I reflect back, andyou always have those early
adopters and then you alwayshave those stragglers who you're
trying to bring along.
You know, if there's notownership in what you're doing,
(07:44):
it doesn't matter whatinitiative or you know I know
that word gets a bad rap as wellbut it doesn't matter what
you're trying to implement Ifyou don't have that buy-in, that
commitment from people to makeit work and you provide them the
resources and the informationthat they need to be successful,
(08:04):
it's not going to fly.
So, speaking from my experiencein the district, the
superintendent and I worked witha brilliant superintendent you
know we really primed the pumpfor at least two, if not well,
for two years, I guess it was,if I think back to the year
(08:27):
start to blur together, but wereally had a guiding coalition
of educators that we wereworking with, exposing them to
research, listening to what theyhad to say and really bringing
them along and educating them aswell as then educating our
(08:50):
school board and our community.
Because there does have to bethat commitment to what you're
doing and in the case of thedistrict from which I retired,
we totally restructured theschool day.
Now you want to talk aboutdisrupting lives in a community
and for educators themselves.
If you're going to change thestart and the end time of the
(09:11):
school day, you need to havethat buy-in and that agency,
that ownership, to make ithappen.
So I think that without thatdeep desire of people to do it
and to know why they're doing it, you know we're not doing it
because, well, that's the latestbuzzword and we've all been
(09:33):
there in education.
You know you have thoseeducators who say, yeah, new
superintendent, new director,curriculum, we'll just wait them
out because they'll eventuallyleave and this will all go away.
You know DeFore and Iker wrotetheir book.
It's been 25 years.
That term is still very wellknown, very widely respected,
(09:54):
and there's now research andhundreds of schools who have
been labeled as model schools.
Who can, you know, really attestto the power of having these
learning organizations focusedon learning and helping students
achieve all students achieveand what that really means.
(10:16):
So I probably strayed away fromyour initial question,
christine, but yes, I think it'sownership really, and but
providing the resources.
If teachers don't know whatthey're supposed to do in that
time, then, left to their owndevices.
They'll be planning field tripsand talking about the
(10:37):
discipline problems that they'rehaving.
So how do you, how do youprovide a structure for them?
How do you provide theresources and the supports, and
how do you provide the resourcesand the supports that they need
to be successful so that theycan really focus on student
learning, which involves adultlearning?
We, as the adults, have to bethe continuous learner as well.
(10:58):
We can't do 35 years ineducation and do the first year
35 times.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You kind of stole the question right out of my mind,
laurie, because you were talkingabout you know.
You have to provide some kindof structure, because then your
PLC, you know, goes wayward.
So providing that kind of youknow agency can be scary for
teachers, right, becausesometimes it is very open, like
(11:31):
you just need to take ownershipof like whatever it is you're
learning and la la la.
But that's really hard,especially, you know, on the
teacher's end, and then we wantthem to do it, you know, within
their classroom with theirstudents.
So if they're not experiencingit, then it's probably not going
to happen in their classroomsMaybe.
(11:51):
I mean, I don't want to overgeneralize, but what kind of
structures have you provided inyour work that can give a sense
of comfort to people working intheir PLCs but also like
eventually it's like okay,they'll be on their way and they
can get working?
Because it is a bit likenebulous, I guess, where you're
(12:13):
just kind of openly discoveringwhat you need to learn to
improve as a teacher or likewhatever the learning cycle is
or the inquiry is.
Yeah, and that's a bit scary asa teacher too, because
sometimes we just want to betold what to do.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Absolutely right.
I know there are times we justwant to be left alone, right?
Yes, in a professional learningcommunity it's built on that
collaboration, thatinterdependency and the fact
that together, alone I'm smart,but together we're brilliant.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
But the structure is Tammy.
I think time is number one.
Teachers must be provided thetime to be able to meet and meet
deeply it.
You know, 20 minutes once aweek isn't going to be the kind
of time they need.
And you know, we all know theresearch and it talks about how
(13:12):
much time teachers in the UnitedStates spend in front of
students, versus other placeslike, you know, singapore or
Japan, or where teachers arespending time collaborating and
working together.
So I indicated before that whenwe implemented PLCs in the
(13:32):
district in which I worked, wetotally changed the school day.
So time is the first thing youmust be able to provide and you
have to be willing to dowhatever it takes to provide
that time, whether that'srestructuring the school day,
like we did, or hiringsubstitutes which is even more
difficult now and in the erathat we're living in or having a
(13:56):
kind of culture where peopleare able to and willing to, you
know, rotate in and cover, ifyou will, for one another.
Whatever it is, you have tofind time, time.
Time is like the number onestructure that you have to put
in place Resources.
So, again, speaking fromexperience, we learn best when
(14:18):
we're all together, but we needthe information and the
knowledge and the know-how.
So often, you know, obviouslythings are.
You can find anything on theinternet today and you know,
good or bad, and there's a youknow, certainly a wealth of
information there.
But when you talk about thequestions of a PLC, you know the
(14:41):
first question in a PLC is whatdo we want students to know and
be able to do?
And that parkens back to havingthat guaranteed and viable
curriculum.
In the words of Marzano, ittalks about curriculum design,
being able to unpack thestandards.
That's a lot of time and effortin itself If you think about
(15:02):
what it takes to create thatguaranteed and viable curriculum
so we can identify what it iswe want students to know and be
able to do.
There's multiple pieces there.
So in that example, being ableto provide instructional coaches
for the teachers we had a greatwealth of instructional coaches
(15:24):
, especially on the ELA side.
Little more difficult even tofind them in the math side.
But the coaches that we had thereading specialists and whatnot
were able to.
They had the time.
We were able to give them timewhere they were able to
prioritize some of thatcurriculum, unpack the standards
and then become part of thoselearning community times and
(15:48):
share some of that informationwith the teachers.
So that's an example of a humanresource that we could provide
to the teachers, giving them thesupport of an instructional
coach, which again is aprivilege.
You're not always in asituation to be able to do that,
but money will spend.
And again, you can't just throwpeople in a space and say go me,
(16:08):
be successful, go, change theworld.
You need time for that group towork together and to establish
a shared mission, vision.
Those beliefs, the trust, thetrust, the respect is so
important there.
So creating time and structuresto allow them to become a
(16:30):
cohesive group.
And then, of course, strategicleadership.
So, and how you balance that?
What's the tight loose?
You talk about that tighterloose coupling.
As the director of curriculum,I was able to go and be part of
those meetings.
(16:50):
But how do you do that and notbe seen as, oh, I'm here to
check up on you or you know thisisn't a gotcha moment how am I
here to support you?
What can I contribute to thatgroup meeting?
Strategic leadership, providingthose supports, those times, is
another critical, criticalpiece, I think, in the success
(17:11):
of a professional learningcommunity.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
And do you say the PLCs have been around for 20
years or more.
I'm wondering what significantchanges you've seen with PLCs
over that time and also where doyou think it's going in the
future.
What do you see the future ofPLCs to be?
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Hmm, successes and where I see it going.
That's an interesting.
That's going to make me think,christine.
Again, I truly believe in thepower of PLCs.
If I didn't, I wouldn't havespent several years researching
and delving into the researchand then, of course, going to a
(17:52):
district and implementing it,because I saw power in there.
When teachers work together, youknow the collective efficacy,
the belief that they can.
When they start to see success,you know, then you get to that
tipping point and I think theybecome even more motivated.
But that social capital, whatwe learn by being a group and I
(18:19):
read an article, you know, yearsago which I think really stuck
with me and I now it's dated,it's 12 years old but I still
cite it and it talked about themissing link in school reform is
social capital, what teacherslearn from one another when
they're together.
And that's to me what a PLC is,and it's just as much, if not
(18:40):
more so, maybe, about the adultlearning than it is about the
student learning and being ableto, for teachers to be willing
to be vulnerable.
And because you really areexposing yourself, you know, if
you would have said to me, youknow, 35 years ago, when I was a
brand new teacher and weprobably all have these moments
(19:02):
where we think back and go like,oh, I was horrible, like I
wouldn't have wanted my datashared with the people next door
to me, which really talkedabout those silos and that that
closed community we had aseducators.
So I think you know creatingthe conditions where you're
willing to be vulnerable and putyourself out there and realize
(19:24):
it's not about you but it'sabout the student learning.
How do we, how do we create theenvironment where we're looking
at data we're not talking aboutLori or Tammy or Christine and
how do we create the conditionsfor that to happen?
So I think I've seen more of thebreaking down of those silos in
(19:44):
education.
I think that some of it comesfrom the idea of professional
learning communities beinglearning organizations where we
can truly impact change.
As far as the future, I wouldonly hope that it continues to
to grow and evolve and morph,because we know that.
(20:06):
You know, plc is at work.
When you look at questionsthree and four, which are about
what do we do when studentsdon't learn it and what do we do
when they already know itreally lends itself to
intervention and enrichment.
To me, that's thedifferentiation, the
personalization that we want tosee education moving towards, so
(20:29):
that each child has a chance toto be successful, to maximize
their own potential, whateverthat may be.
So I would hope that that thestructure of a professional
learning community or a learningorganization would help lead to
more student success.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
That's a perfect segue into how we wrap up our
show.
We always ask our guests for apair down pointer, and I feel
like kind of thinkingfuturistically about PLCs and
the direction that they canpotentially go, because I think
you're right, lori, like I thinkthat teachers have really kind
of you know, silos are comingdown and it's kind of fun to
(21:11):
learn together, right Like we'resocial beings, we need to
interact with each other, wewant to talk to each other, we
want to learn from each other,and once we build that trust
with each other, it becomes mucheasier to be able to do that
work together.
So you've given us lots ofnuggets to think about, so we
want you to now pick out one ofthose or a different pair down
(21:33):
pointer that you would want toshare with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think it's very old cliche, but you know, it's just
, it's one step at a time.
As far as the PLC it can be,anything you do is overwhelming.
So I think you have to reallydistill it down to you know what
is my priority, what is my goal, why am I doing this?
And then what do I need to putin place to be successful?
(21:58):
And how do you keep out therest of the noise?
I mean, you can relate that toemail, I think technology, email
, social media you know it canjust distract us and pull us
away from our true focus andwhere we need to be.
So I would say, to really drilldown to what is my purpose, why
(22:23):
am I doing this?
And then what do I need to getthere and try and block out the
others, and if the rest ofwhat's coming at you isn't
related tightly to where you'regoing, give yourself permission
to say, no, we're not going todo that, we're not going to put
(22:45):
something else on the platebecause there's only so much
room on the plate.
So we have to pick and choosethose items which we know will
get us where we need to be andlet the rest of it fall away.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, Laurie.
Thank you for being with ustoday.
Well you're most welcome.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I actually enjoyed resurrecting some of my research
and reminding myself of myjourney, and you know the power
of what I saw happen in mydistrict, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Today's episode was brought to you by Pennsylvania
ASCD.
Pennsylvania ASCD is anorganization committed to the
improvement of curriculumdevelopment, supervision,
instruction, promotion ofprofessional growth and
education of children.
As a state affiliate of ASCD,our organization promotes
quality leadership by providingtimely programs and services to
(23:42):
our membership.
Pennsylvania ASCD is the proudrecipient of the 2011 ASCD
Affiliate Excellence Award.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
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