May 21, 2024 • 28 mins
Embark on an intellectual journey with us, Tammy Musiowsky-Borniman and I, Christine Arnold, as we delve into the world of cognitive load theory, unveiling its transformative power in educational settings. Prepare to shift your perspective on teaching and learning, as we unravel the complex dance between sensory input and working memory, and its profound impact on student comprehension and retention. It's a voyage that promises to arm you with the strategies necessary to optimize the learning experience for every student, ensuring that the classroom becomes a crucible of inclusion and effective education, grounded in the principles of Universal Design for Learning.
In a discussion laden with practical wisdom, we invite you to discover the art of teacher self-care through the lens of minimalism. Embrace the Triple P method—prioritize, pair back, and plan—as we illuminate the path to reducing cognitive overload for both educators and students. With insights on how to leverage technology to clear the clutter and enhance instruction, this episode is a treasure trove for those seeking to create a supportive and efficient learning environment. We're not just podcast hosts; we're pioneers advocating for minimalism in the classroom, and we encourage you to join the conversation and be part of a community where simplicity isn't just a philosophy, but a transformative educational practice.
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Professional Learning Services.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borniman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
In today's episode, tammy and I speak about
cognitive load theory, what itis and the different ways that
it may impact our work aseducators.
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Today we have myself, christineand Tammy.
How are you today, tammy?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm great, Christine.
How are you today?
Very?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
well, Thank you.
So today you and I are going tobe chatting about cognitive
load theory.
Can you tell us all first alittle bit about what cognitive
load theory is?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, so when we think about cognitive load, it's
the information, all of theinformation that we're in taking
all the time that is thenprocessing within our working
memory.
So we're in taking copiousamounts of information all the
time.
So we're both just sitting inour chairs with headphones on,
(01:35):
but in the background I can hearbirds, I can hear parrs, I can
hear all of these things.
So that's getting built into, Iguess I don't want to say the
framework, but it's filteringinto my brain, right.
So I'm trying to figure outthose sounds.
We're talking, there's thosethings, there's all of that kind
of sensory information thatwe're in taking.
(01:56):
But then, of course, throughoutthe day we're talking to people
, we're reading information,we're taking in information
through our senses, and that canbe a lot for a working memory
and how that can actually impactour ability to remember
information.
Because we do want to make surethat we don't want things to
(02:19):
stay in that kind of short termmemory.
We want it to become whateverwe're learning.
We want it to become long termmemories, if it's correct
information, of course.
But we want to avoid thingslike overloading that.
So we'll talk a little bittoday about how we can kind of
mitigate that overload when itcomes to cognitive load that we
(02:44):
experience.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, absolutely, our working memory unfortunately
does have its limits.
There is a ceiling there abouthow much we can input in it and
make sense of it before we get alittle bit overloaded for sure.
So if we're thinkingspecifically about our students
experience, I think that's agood place to start and we've
(03:09):
talked about this before, tammyand the design of the room can
be a huge factor here, can't it?
So, thinking about that sensoryinput, as you said, and other
conversations that we've had, ifthe kids have got lots of
things to look at, things tolisten to, coming from different
(03:30):
directions, they've gotdifferent motions happening
around them, with the peoplemoving around the room and so on
, that can be one thing that canadd on to that sensory input
and start to overload our brains, right?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, we can only really handle like you mentioned
the limits a handful ofinformation at a time if we are
going to remember it.
So, when we think about givinginstructions to students in a
class or even adults inworkshops, right, do this, then
this and this and this, like wego down like and say five or six
(04:09):
things, but we can really onlyremember, you know, maybe three
or maybe four, depending on howcomplex a task is, and we have
to also consider the age of thelearners, right, and the people
in front of us.
So, yes, as adults, we canhandle.
You know probably a few morethings.
But, thinking about myself,even I am an outward processor.
(04:36):
So if someone gives me severalinstructions, I either need to
like repeat them to myself sothat.
I can remember or write themdown really quick and also hope
that whoever gave theinstruction is going to repeat
it or give me a visual, becauseat least that's like reducing
some of my mental strain andtrying to remember these
(05:00):
instructions which are lendingthemselves to the task at hand
but, which is more important,the instructions or the tasks
that I'm going to try and doRight.
So I'm thinking about it interms of like, where do I put my
mental stress?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, absolutely for sure.
Yeah, I think the design oftasks that we are giving to
students or, as you say, adultlearners as well, I think the
design of the tasks can reallyhelp or hinder us here.
When we're thinking aboutcognitive load, if we've really
(05:35):
thought through how we aredesigning the task, what we're
asking of the people in front ofus, we can help people
positively intake information.
But if we're designingsomething that's too clunky,
it's got too many elements,there's too many different
things to function within at thesame time, then we're going to
(05:59):
overload that working memory alot faster than otherwise.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, I think this is where universal design for
learning really comes into play.
When we're thinking aboutdesign and just listening to our
friend Naomi Church in lots ofher presentations on UDL and
talking about how we have tomake, when we're designing tasks
, they do have to be accessiblefor all learners and if we are
(06:24):
overtaxing the memory, theworking memory, that's a
hindrance.
So, we want to make sure thatall learners have access to all
the things they need toeffectively express their
learning or represented orengage in it.
Otherwise, we have confusion,frustration and people shutting
(06:48):
down right because they can'thandle that much information.
So the designing of a task wedo have to think it is a lot of
work on the teacher's end, right?
Or whoever's creating aworkshop or whatever.
You do have to think about allthe people in your room and make
(07:08):
sure that that access is therefor, like you need to have the
visuals you do have to thinkabout.
Can everyone hear me?
How many times do I need tolike repeat something and how
long do I post something like?
All of those things are goingto well, you know, make you a
better teacher or facilitator,but also help your learner so
(07:30):
that they're not having toconstantly, you know, have that
load on their minds when theyneed to have their focus on
something else.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, it makes me think about.
No, I'm not, I'm not baggingthis thinking routine, because
it is really good when it's donewell, but it does make me think
.
You know the jigsaw thinkingroutine, yes, once.
Once people know what they'redoing and they're used to it,
(08:00):
it's fine.
But I think it makes me thinkof this because it's sometimes
hard for people to wrap theirheads around.
Okay, right, I'm going to jointhis one group, become an expert
on this first, but then my jobis then to go to another group
and teach them about it.
So it is really powerful whenit's done right.
But it does make me think aboutwhen I've done it in classrooms
(08:22):
sometimes and the kids focuseson the wrong place, because
they're in two different groupsand they're not really focusing
in on what's the most importantelement of that thinking routine
.
It does make me think of that.
It's how do you explain it, howdo you introduce it, how do you
rehearse it, how do youpractice it so that it's as
(08:43):
understandable as possible?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And that totally tracks with.
You know, if we're teaching anew thinking routine or protocol
or something, you want to teachit with familiar content, right
, so that you're not teaching anew strategy with new content at
the same time, because that'slike mind blowing and you get a
lot of confusion.
So if you can teach that kindof protocol with something that
(09:10):
students or learners alreadyknow and are familiar with and
can practice, then you hopefullyhave more success with that
kind of routine, because it canbe a lot and that's why you know
it's some of those thinkingroutines and protocols and
discussion engagements that wewant to have in our classes as
(09:31):
teachers.
We get excited about liketrying something new and then,
oh, I'm going to try this otherthing or other thing.
But really it's really taxing onyourself to have to keep
teaching new protocols and newroutines and it just throws
everybody like wait, didn't we?
Just you know so like it'ssuper important to think about,
like as a teacher, it's okay tokeep teaching this using the
(09:53):
same protocol or strategy orthinking routine several times
with different content, becausethen you get better at it as a
teacher.
It's taking off some of yourmental load and your students
are getting used to how thatroutine works with different
content.
And then they see thattransferability of oh, I'm using
(10:15):
these same skills, but we'retalking about something else,
which isn't that.
That's what we want anyway,right, but it really reduces
some of that cognitive load ongetting to know a new routine
and getting to know new content,because that's just real hard.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
That is a lot to ask.
Yeah, for sure, but yeah, but.
So you've got a really good tipfor us there, that great tip of
don't tackle a new thinkingroutine or protocol with new
content at the same time.
That's a really good key skillthat we can take their key tip.
So what are some otherstrategies we can employ to help
(10:56):
us be mindful of this cognitiveload theory?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think it's important to we talk a lot about
prioritization, right?
So like focusing on what's ourpurpose here and then what's the
priority we need to meet.
So if we know that teachershave so much content to cover,
but you can really prioritizekey learning pieces Effectively
(11:24):
if you do use certain protocolsor routines and think about how
you can do that transfer abilityof skill with different content
, because then again you'retaking away some of that
Replanning and rethinking andall of that from your work as a
(11:45):
teacher or facilitator andyou're opening up some spaces
for, hopefully, some goodthinking, rather than like, oh,
this is like hurting my brain,right, so we think about how we
can really prioritize keylearning pieces.
(12:05):
What something else do youthink?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Well, sticking with the Triple P.
We've got prioritizing, butanother one we talk about is
pairing back.
I think that's really importanttoo.
Yeah, you often hear not often,maybe not often, that's
probably too much of ageneralization but you do hear
teachers in their lessons givingthat key information or that
(12:33):
key learning, but then havingall this extraneous information
or details coming in as well.
So, rather than focusing in onthis is the thrust of this
lesson.
This is the main thing I wantmy students to take away, but
it's also oh, don't forget thisand add that in, don't forget to
see that over there.
(12:54):
And when you finish, go overthere and do that over there.
When you're done, you're addingall of this extra clutter in
which might drag people'sattention away or overload their
working memory.
So now you've kind of lost thatimportant piece of your
learning.
So if you compare back in yourlesson and in giving your
(13:15):
instructions to just the keypoints, that key information, I
think that's a really good oneas well.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I think teaching in the IB program in the PYP really
helped me with that, becausethe lines of inquiry really do
focus your units right.
So that really helped me.
Like, ok, we're going to bediving into this one line of
inquiry and it's a statement,but there's bits that you can
(13:48):
build into it, but you reallyfocus on in-depth statements for
a couple of weeks at a time andI feel like that really helped
me as a teacher and just whenwe're designing units.
That really helped me focus.
And so I didn't have all ofthis other like ooh, and what
about this and what about that?
(14:09):
Right, when it was reallytaking up my mental space.
Yeah, so I found that that kindof planning process was really
helpful and I think in thatprocess as well, when we're
planning and we're consideringthe diverse needs of our
learners, we can think about howsometimes one student needs one
(14:33):
thing and then another needsanother, Someone needs more
information and this one doesn'tneed as much.
I think it's like a balanceright.
So if you really get to knowyour learners in front of you,
then sometimes it's hard if youhave adult learners for a short
amount of time, but you can getto know people pretty quick and
(14:54):
what they need right.
So, especially for adults, ifthey're in a workshop, they're
like, ooh, I need to do this, soI'm going to do this for myself
, whereas young learners don'tquite know that yet.
But we can In that planningprocess if we're considering the
diverse needs of our learners.
We know that everyone'sdifferent.
Some students are going to needmore information, some students
(15:15):
don't need as much.
But if we think about how wecan use and I mentioned a few
minutes ago universal design forlearning and how we can create
access and openings for learningrather than barriers, because
we tend to do that for somereason, we create a barrier that
we don't need to put up forlearning.
But if we're a little bit moreopen with our planning, that
(15:38):
reduces some of the work that weneed to do as well.
So that takes off a lot of mymental load, or you know ours as
planners and teachers, becausewe can let the learners lead a
little bit and let us know whatthey do need, because if they
need a little more, that's greatand we can support that.
(16:00):
If they don't need as much, whyare we providing it Right?
Don't create that barrier tolearning.
What do you think abouttechnology use.
How might that help us?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yes, technology.
I think this is a really goodone for us to consider as well
and, while it might take alittle bit of design thinking, I
think this can be a really goodtool for teachers to get into
the habit of using orconsidering.
So, first of all, watch howmuch writing you have on the
(16:34):
board, how much you have on theslide.
I think that is a very easy wayto overwhelm the people in
front of you if you've got, youknow size, 12 font and it's line
after line after line ofinformation.
It's too much, especially ifyou're going to be talking while
the slide is on at the sametime.
I mean your input is completelyfilled out straight away.
(16:56):
So I think that's one thing toconsider.
But then you know, I know I'm anelementary school teacher, so
this might not always berelevant to everybody when
they're considering having theirwritten instructions as well as
oral instructions.
But having you know, using someof those templates like must do
(17:17):
amazing, or first this, thenthis, or if this, then this,
having some of those structureson your board and use them
routinely, habitually, so yourstudents are used to that format
.
And where do I look to knowwhat I need to do and what I
need to do next.
I think that can be reallyreally helpful for students to
(17:40):
get into that routine of lookingup, looking at the instructions
.
Okay, I can help myself.
I've done that.
What am I doing next?
Or I've done the bare minimumstandard.
What can I do to elevate thework that I'm doing and
participating in now?
So I think, if we think, youknow, a lot of us are using
slides, interactive whiteboards,things like that these days.
(18:01):
So using that to support theinstructions that you're giving
your expectations for theclassroom, but being a little
bit strategic in that design sothat you're not adding to the
cognitive load, I think is agood one.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure, Structures are super important
when we think about any educatorin their role really we know
that we can't, sometimes we,sometimes we just have too much.
We know that mentally and then,like for me, I just kind of
(18:39):
freeze.
And then nothing happens Right.
So I'm like dear in theheadlights.
So when, if teachers andleaders are feeling this kind of
cognitive burnout, what do youthink are a few things that we
can do when we step out of therole, or even if we can capture
(19:01):
some time in the school day?
What like?
What do you do when you're likeI'm at my, I'm at my point?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Run screaming from the building no, no, no, that's
not, that's not appropriate.
I think, like when it happensin the classroom in front of the
kids, I try and verbalizewhat's happening to that model
that we can be overwhelmed andwe can get distracted and then
you know, model that thinking ofgetting back on the right track
(19:33):
.
So I do try and be open aboutit with the students to an
extent.
But I think for me a key thingis collaboration.
So I think if we can share ourwork and benefit from the
thinking and skills of thepeople around us, I think it
(19:56):
really helps us juggle all ofthe different tasks that we have
to do in our busy lives.
What do you think?
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, same.
I think having the network ofpeople that support you to and
that can relate, right, if youcan empathize with each other,
like oh yeah, I remember thatfeeling, or that's how I felt
last week, is really, reallyhelps me refocus just to say, oh
(20:26):
yeah, you know what?
I'm not the only one who getsthis kind of mental overwhelm
and I can talk about it withthese people who understand what
it feels like, right, becausesometimes you do, like I
mentioned, I'm an outwardprocessor, so I can like ramble
on about things clearly, butsome people pull away right.
(20:51):
So when you get that overload,some people will just really
retreat.
And when someone recognizes thatin you as well, it's helpful,
because sometimes you know how.
You don't know something'shappening until someone's like
are you okay?
Yeah, let's evaluate thesituation here, because you seem
(21:13):
overwhelmed and I think evenjust someone saying, recognizing
that and knowing you havesupport in that process, like,
oh yeah, I'm like starting to goon a little bit of a spin here.
Thank you for recognizing thatand helping me want to bring
myself down.
I think, too, it's helpful tohave not only the people but
(21:37):
your own kind of self for lackof better word like self care
practice, almost because thereneeds to be some time and space
for you to like not think aboutall of the things, and so like I
like to go for long walks andlisten to nature or a book and
(21:59):
that just like really helps meunload my mind and then I feel
better after that.
So it's interesting how just alittle bit of detachment time
from all of the things aretaking up that space really
helps Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I feel like it's the visual I'm getting in my head is
, you know, when you have, likea bucket that has a hole in it,
so the water will leak out of it, but if you're pouring faster
than it's coming out, thenyou're going to overflow, right?
So I feel like when you havethat time in the evenings, the
(22:39):
weekends, the holidays, you canactually reset and start again.
And over the school weeks, theschool days, you might get
filled up again.
But if you're giving yourselfthat time, as you say, to detach
, I think we can like reset andstart again.
It's so important.
If you're constantly in thatwork mode, you're going to be
(23:01):
overflowing more often, morefrequently, for sure.
Definitely collaborate,definitely check in with each
other and you know, work on thatwork life balance as much as
you can and look after yourselffor sure.
Yeah, I think.
Another one is we're gettingmore and more scientific
(23:25):
research about what works forlearning, what works for the
brain, and I think we need toreally hook into that and make
use of it, because if we'respending time on techniques and
strategies and tools and so onand so forth that aren't
(23:45):
effective, that aren'tbenefiting our students, I think
we are wasting our time andgoing into that overwhelmed,
overloaded feeling.
So if we can make sure thatwhat we're doing is always
coming back to that research, sowe know what we're doing is
(24:06):
effective, we're getting to whatwe need to do the purpose a lot
faster than sort of flailingaround with things that may not
work.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, for sure.
Our conversation with JuliaSkolnik about brain science and
learning was really interestingand it's important to keep up on
what that research is abouteffective learning practice and
how our brain actually works andhow it retains information,
(24:40):
because if we don't, yeah, whatare we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Yeah, for sure.
We're just creating.
We're creating confusion andfrustration, and that's not
positive.
We want our learners to besuccessful with effective
strategies that we can provideand, yeah, and be successful,
(25:04):
absolutely.
So what do you think we talkedabout?
Quite a bit?
This happens where we just kindof get talking about things and
now we are going to pare itdown to a pare down pointer.
So what kind of popped out foryou today, Christine.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I think, if I'm thinking about cognitive load
theory and pairing down, I thinkgoing to your day I'm thinking
as a classroom teacher here, bythe way, guys, going to your day
with your students thinkingthese are the four or five goals
(25:44):
Could even be less than that,could be three, depends on how
many periods you're teaching forthat day.
These are my four goals that Iwant my kids to walk away with
today.
Now, so many other things aregoing to come up.
They're going to distract you,they're going to come at you
from every direction, from allthe different stakeholders, but
if you're holding onto those few, these are the things that are
(26:06):
definitely happening today andnothing will move me.
You can really try and keephold of a working memory that's
going to make it through the dayintact.
I think that would be my pairdown pointer.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I like that.
I think something that wedidn't really mention but making
this an inference, but likeconclusion, I guess is that when
we are presenting informationto learners, we need to make
sure we're reading theirfeedback and reading the
audience.
When we see students getting tothat breaking point, we need to
(26:49):
stop or inquire.
Is this a good cognitivechallenge or is this too
complicated, too complex, and isthis frustration?
I think we have to read theroom when we are thinking about
what our learners' brains canhandle.
(27:10):
When we do that, I feel likemore success, because we're
again creating those points ofyou can push yourself into this
greater thinking task, or do youneed a break?
Do you need to let what youjust did settle for a little bit
?
Reading the room is reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Reading the room and, if possible, know who you're
working with.
Yeah, excellent.
Thanks once again for a greatchat, tammy.
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning ServicesForward Thinking Educator
Support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at Plan Z PLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaya Moretti.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiowsky-Borniman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
In today's episode, tammy and I speak about
cognitive load theory, what itis and the different ways that
it may impact our work aseducators.
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Today we have myself, christineand Tammy.
How are you today, tammy?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm great, Christine.
How are you today?
Very?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
well, Thank you.
So today you and I are going tobe chatting about cognitive
load theory.
Can you tell us all first alittle bit about what cognitive
load theory is?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, so when we think about cognitive load, it's
the information, all of theinformation that we're in taking
all the time that is thenprocessing within our working
memory.
So we're in taking copiousamounts of information all the
time.
So we're both just sitting inour chairs with headphones on,
(01:35):
but in the background I can hearbirds, I can hear parrs, I can
hear all of these things.
So that's getting built into, Iguess I don't want to say the
framework, but it's filteringinto my brain, right.
So I'm trying to figure outthose sounds.
We're talking, there's thosethings, there's all of that kind
of sensory information thatwe're in taking.
(01:56):
But then, of course, throughoutthe day we're talking to people
, we're reading information,we're taking in information
through our senses, and that canbe a lot for a working memory
and how that can actually impactour ability to remember
information.
Because we do want to make surethat we don't want things to
(02:19):
stay in that kind of short termmemory.
We want it to become whateverwe're learning.
We want it to become long termmemories, if it's correct
information, of course.
But we want to avoid thingslike overloading that.
So we'll talk a little bittoday about how we can kind of
mitigate that overload when itcomes to cognitive load that we
(02:44):
experience.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, absolutely, our working memory unfortunately
does have its limits.
There is a ceiling there abouthow much we can input in it and
make sense of it before we get alittle bit overloaded for sure.
So if we're thinkingspecifically about our students
experience, I think that's agood place to start and we've
(03:09):
talked about this before, tammyand the design of the room can
be a huge factor here, can't it?
So, thinking about that sensoryinput, as you said, and other
conversations that we've had, ifthe kids have got lots of
things to look at, things tolisten to, coming from different
(03:30):
directions, they've gotdifferent motions happening
around them, with the peoplemoving around the room and so on
, that can be one thing that canadd on to that sensory input
and start to overload our brains, right?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, we can only really handle like you mentioned
the limits a handful ofinformation at a time if we are
going to remember it.
So, when we think about givinginstructions to students in a
class or even adults inworkshops, right, do this, then
this and this and this, like wego down like and say five or six
(04:09):
things, but we can really onlyremember, you know, maybe three
or maybe four, depending on howcomplex a task is, and we have
to also consider the age of thelearners, right, and the people
in front of us.
So, yes, as adults, we canhandle.
You know probably a few morethings.
But, thinking about myself,even I am an outward processor.
(04:36):
So if someone gives me severalinstructions, I either need to
like repeat them to myself sothat.
I can remember or write themdown really quick and also hope
that whoever gave theinstruction is going to repeat
it or give me a visual, becauseat least that's like reducing
some of my mental strain andtrying to remember these
(05:00):
instructions which are lendingthemselves to the task at hand
but, which is more important,the instructions or the tasks
that I'm going to try and doRight.
So I'm thinking about it interms of like, where do I put my
mental stress?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, absolutely for sure.
Yeah, I think the design oftasks that we are giving to
students or, as you say, adultlearners as well, I think the
design of the tasks can reallyhelp or hinder us here.
When we're thinking aboutcognitive load, if we've really
(05:35):
thought through how we aredesigning the task, what we're
asking of the people in front ofus, we can help people
positively intake information.
But if we're designingsomething that's too clunky,
it's got too many elements,there's too many different
things to function within at thesame time, then we're going to
(05:59):
overload that working memory alot faster than otherwise.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, I think this is where universal design for
learning really comes into play.
When we're thinking aboutdesign and just listening to our
friend Naomi Church in lots ofher presentations on UDL and
talking about how we have tomake, when we're designing tasks
, they do have to be accessiblefor all learners and if we are
(06:24):
overtaxing the memory, theworking memory, that's a
hindrance.
So, we want to make sure thatall learners have access to all
the things they need toeffectively express their
learning or represented orengage in it.
Otherwise, we have confusion,frustration and people shutting
(06:48):
down right because they can'thandle that much information.
So the designing of a task wedo have to think it is a lot of
work on the teacher's end, right?
Or whoever's creating aworkshop or whatever.
You do have to think about allthe people in your room and make
(07:08):
sure that that access is therefor, like you need to have the
visuals you do have to thinkabout.
Can everyone hear me?
How many times do I need tolike repeat something and how
long do I post something like?
All of those things are goingto well, you know, make you a
better teacher or facilitator,but also help your learner so
(07:30):
that they're not having toconstantly, you know, have that
load on their minds when theyneed to have their focus on
something else.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, it makes me think about.
No, I'm not, I'm not baggingthis thinking routine, because
it is really good when it's donewell, but it does make me think
.
You know the jigsaw thinkingroutine, yes, once.
Once people know what they'redoing and they're used to it,
(08:00):
it's fine.
But I think it makes me thinkof this because it's sometimes
hard for people to wrap theirheads around.
Okay, right, I'm going to jointhis one group, become an expert
on this first, but then my jobis then to go to another group
and teach them about it.
So it is really powerful whenit's done right.
But it does make me think aboutwhen I've done it in classrooms
(08:22):
sometimes and the kids focuseson the wrong place, because
they're in two different groupsand they're not really focusing
in on what's the most importantelement of that thinking routine
.
It does make me think of that.
It's how do you explain it, howdo you introduce it, how do you
rehearse it, how do youpractice it so that it's as
(08:43):
understandable as possible?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And that totally tracks with.
You know, if we're teaching anew thinking routine or protocol
or something, you want to teachit with familiar content, right
, so that you're not teaching anew strategy with new content at
the same time, because that'slike mind blowing and you get a
lot of confusion.
So if you can teach that kindof protocol with something that
(09:10):
students or learners alreadyknow and are familiar with and
can practice, then you hopefullyhave more success with that
kind of routine, because it canbe a lot and that's why you know
it's some of those thinkingroutines and protocols and
discussion engagements that wewant to have in our classes as
(09:31):
teachers.
We get excited about liketrying something new and then,
oh, I'm going to try this otherthing or other thing.
But really it's really taxing onyourself to have to keep
teaching new protocols and newroutines and it just throws
everybody like wait, didn't we?
Just you know so like it'ssuper important to think about,
like as a teacher, it's okay tokeep teaching this using the
(09:53):
same protocol or strategy orthinking routine several times
with different content, becausethen you get better at it as a
teacher.
It's taking off some of yourmental load and your students
are getting used to how thatroutine works with different
content.
And then they see thattransferability of oh, I'm using
(10:15):
these same skills, but we'retalking about something else,
which isn't that.
That's what we want anyway,right, but it really reduces
some of that cognitive load ongetting to know a new routine
and getting to know new content,because that's just real hard.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
That is a lot to ask.
Yeah, for sure, but yeah, but.
So you've got a really good tipfor us there, that great tip of
don't tackle a new thinkingroutine or protocol with new
content at the same time.
That's a really good key skillthat we can take their key tip.
So what are some otherstrategies we can employ to help
(10:56):
us be mindful of this cognitiveload theory?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think it's important to we talk a lot about
prioritization, right?
So like focusing on what's ourpurpose here and then what's the
priority we need to meet.
So if we know that teachershave so much content to cover,
but you can really prioritizekey learning pieces Effectively
(11:24):
if you do use certain protocolsor routines and think about how
you can do that transfer abilityof skill with different content
, because then again you'retaking away some of that
Replanning and rethinking andall of that from your work as a
(11:45):
teacher or facilitator andyou're opening up some spaces
for, hopefully, some goodthinking, rather than like, oh,
this is like hurting my brain,right, so we think about how we
can really prioritize keylearning pieces.
(12:05):
What something else do youthink?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Well, sticking with the Triple P.
We've got prioritizing, butanother one we talk about is
pairing back.
I think that's really importanttoo.
Yeah, you often hear not often,maybe not often, that's
probably too much of ageneralization but you do hear
teachers in their lessons givingthat key information or that
(12:33):
key learning, but then havingall this extraneous information
or details coming in as well.
So, rather than focusing in onthis is the thrust of this
lesson.
This is the main thing I wantmy students to take away, but
it's also oh, don't forget thisand add that in, don't forget to
see that over there.
(12:54):
And when you finish, go overthere and do that over there.
When you're done, you're addingall of this extra clutter in
which might drag people'sattention away or overload their
working memory.
So now you've kind of lost thatimportant piece of your
learning.
So if you compare back in yourlesson and in giving your
(13:15):
instructions to just the keypoints, that key information, I
think that's a really good oneas well.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I think teaching in the IB program in the PYP really
helped me with that, becausethe lines of inquiry really do
focus your units right.
So that really helped me.
Like, ok, we're going to bediving into this one line of
inquiry and it's a statement,but there's bits that you can
(13:48):
build into it, but you reallyfocus on in-depth statements for
a couple of weeks at a time andI feel like that really helped
me as a teacher and just whenwe're designing units.
That really helped me focus.
And so I didn't have all ofthis other like ooh, and what
about this and what about that?
(14:09):
Right, when it was reallytaking up my mental space.
Yeah, so I found that that kindof planning process was really
helpful and I think in thatprocess as well, when we're
planning and we're consideringthe diverse needs of our
learners, we can think about howsometimes one student needs one
(14:33):
thing and then another needsanother, Someone needs more
information and this one doesn'tneed as much.
I think it's like a balanceright.
So if you really get to knowyour learners in front of you,
then sometimes it's hard if youhave adult learners for a short
amount of time, but you can getto know people pretty quick and
(14:54):
what they need right.
So, especially for adults, ifthey're in a workshop, they're
like, ooh, I need to do this, soI'm going to do this for myself
, whereas young learners don'tquite know that yet.
But we can In that planningprocess if we're considering the
diverse needs of our learners.
We know that everyone'sdifferent.
Some students are going to needmore information, some students
(15:15):
don't need as much.
But if we think about how wecan use and I mentioned a few
minutes ago universal design forlearning and how we can create
access and openings for learningrather than barriers, because
we tend to do that for somereason, we create a barrier that
we don't need to put up forlearning.
But if we're a little bit moreopen with our planning, that
(15:38):
reduces some of the work that weneed to do as well.
So that takes off a lot of mymental load, or you know ours as
planners and teachers, becausewe can let the learners lead a
little bit and let us know whatthey do need, because if they
need a little more, that's greatand we can support that.
(16:00):
If they don't need as much, whyare we providing it Right?
Don't create that barrier tolearning.
What do you think abouttechnology use.
How might that help us?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yes, technology.
I think this is a really goodone for us to consider as well
and, while it might take alittle bit of design thinking, I
think this can be a really goodtool for teachers to get into
the habit of using orconsidering.
So, first of all, watch howmuch writing you have on the
(16:34):
board, how much you have on theslide.
I think that is a very easy wayto overwhelm the people in
front of you if you've got, youknow size, 12 font and it's line
after line after line ofinformation.
It's too much, especially ifyou're going to be talking while
the slide is on at the sametime.
I mean your input is completelyfilled out straight away.
(16:56):
So I think that's one thing toconsider.
But then you know, I know I'm anelementary school teacher, so
this might not always berelevant to everybody when
they're considering having theirwritten instructions as well as
oral instructions.
But having you know, using someof those templates like must do
(17:17):
amazing, or first this, thenthis, or if this, then this,
having some of those structureson your board and use them
routinely, habitually, so yourstudents are used to that format
.
And where do I look to knowwhat I need to do and what I
need to do next.
I think that can be reallyreally helpful for students to
(17:40):
get into that routine of lookingup, looking at the instructions
.
Okay, I can help myself.
I've done that.
What am I doing next?
Or I've done the bare minimumstandard.
What can I do to elevate thework that I'm doing and
participating in now?
So I think, if we think, youknow, a lot of us are using
slides, interactive whiteboards,things like that these days.
(18:01):
So using that to support theinstructions that you're giving
your expectations for theclassroom, but being a little
bit strategic in that design sothat you're not adding to the
cognitive load, I think is agood one.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure, Structures are super important
when we think about any educatorin their role really we know
that we can't, sometimes we,sometimes we just have too much.
We know that mentally and then,like for me, I just kind of
(18:39):
freeze.
And then nothing happens Right.
So I'm like dear in theheadlights.
So when, if teachers andleaders are feeling this kind of
cognitive burnout, what do youthink are a few things that we
can do when we step out of therole, or even if we can capture
(19:01):
some time in the school day?
What like?
What do you do when you're likeI'm at my, I'm at my point?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Run screaming from the building no, no, no, that's
not, that's not appropriate.
I think, like when it happensin the classroom in front of the
kids, I try and verbalizewhat's happening to that model
that we can be overwhelmed andwe can get distracted and then
you know, model that thinking ofgetting back on the right track
(19:33):
.
So I do try and be open aboutit with the students to an
extent.
But I think for me a key thingis collaboration.
So I think if we can share ourwork and benefit from the
thinking and skills of thepeople around us, I think it
(19:56):
really helps us juggle all ofthe different tasks that we have
to do in our busy lives.
What do you think?
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, same.
I think having the network ofpeople that support you to and
that can relate, right, if youcan empathize with each other,
like oh yeah, I remember thatfeeling, or that's how I felt
last week, is really, reallyhelps me refocus just to say, oh
(20:26):
yeah, you know what?
I'm not the only one who getsthis kind of mental overwhelm
and I can talk about it withthese people who understand what
it feels like, right, becausesometimes you do, like I
mentioned, I'm an outwardprocessor, so I can like ramble
on about things clearly, butsome people pull away right.
(20:51):
So when you get that overload,some people will just really
retreat.
And when someone recognizes thatin you as well, it's helpful,
because sometimes you know how.
You don't know something'shappening until someone's like
are you okay?
Yeah, let's evaluate thesituation here, because you seem
(21:13):
overwhelmed and I think evenjust someone saying, recognizing
that and knowing you havesupport in that process, like,
oh yeah, I'm like starting to goon a little bit of a spin here.
Thank you for recognizing thatand helping me want to bring
myself down.
I think, too, it's helpful tohave not only the people but
(21:37):
your own kind of self for lackof better word like self care
practice, almost because thereneeds to be some time and space
for you to like not think aboutall of the things, and so like I
like to go for long walks andlisten to nature or a book and
(21:59):
that just like really helps meunload my mind and then I feel
better after that.
So it's interesting how just alittle bit of detachment time
from all of the things aretaking up that space really
helps Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I feel like it's the visual I'm getting in my head is
, you know, when you have, likea bucket that has a hole in it,
so the water will leak out of it, but if you're pouring faster
than it's coming out, thenyou're going to overflow, right?
So I feel like when you havethat time in the evenings, the
(22:39):
weekends, the holidays, you canactually reset and start again.
And over the school weeks, theschool days, you might get
filled up again.
But if you're giving yourselfthat time, as you say, to detach
, I think we can like reset andstart again.
It's so important.
If you're constantly in thatwork mode, you're going to be
(23:01):
overflowing more often, morefrequently, for sure.
Definitely collaborate,definitely check in with each
other and you know, work on thatwork life balance as much as
you can and look after yourselffor sure.
Yeah, I think.
Another one is we're gettingmore and more scientific
(23:25):
research about what works forlearning, what works for the
brain, and I think we need toreally hook into that and make
use of it, because if we'respending time on techniques and
strategies and tools and so onand so forth that aren't
(23:45):
effective, that aren'tbenefiting our students, I think
we are wasting our time andgoing into that overwhelmed,
overloaded feeling.
So if we can make sure thatwhat we're doing is always
coming back to that research, sowe know what we're doing is
(24:06):
effective, we're getting to whatwe need to do the purpose a lot
faster than sort of flailingaround with things that may not
work.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, for sure.
Our conversation with JuliaSkolnik about brain science and
learning was really interestingand it's important to keep up on
what that research is abouteffective learning practice and
how our brain actually works andhow it retains information,
(24:40):
because if we don't, yeah, whatare we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Yeah, for sure.
We're just creating.
We're creating confusion andfrustration, and that's not
positive.
We want our learners to besuccessful with effective
strategies that we can provideand, yeah, and be successful,
(25:04):
absolutely.
So what do you think we talkedabout?
Quite a bit?
This happens where we just kindof get talking about things and
now we are going to pare itdown to a pare down pointer.
So what kind of popped out foryou today, Christine.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I think, if I'm thinking about cognitive load
theory and pairing down, I thinkgoing to your day I'm thinking
as a classroom teacher here, bythe way, guys, going to your day
with your students thinkingthese are the four or five goals
(25:44):
Could even be less than that,could be three, depends on how
many periods you're teaching forthat day.
These are my four goals that Iwant my kids to walk away with
today.
Now, so many other things aregoing to come up.
They're going to distract you,they're going to come at you
from every direction, from allthe different stakeholders, but
if you're holding onto those few, these are the things that are
(26:06):
definitely happening today andnothing will move me.
You can really try and keephold of a working memory that's
going to make it through the dayintact.
I think that would be my pairdown pointer.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I like that.
I think something that wedidn't really mention but making
this an inference, but likeconclusion, I guess is that when
we are presenting informationto learners, we need to make
sure we're reading theirfeedback and reading the
audience.
When we see students getting tothat breaking point, we need to
(26:49):
stop or inquire.
Is this a good cognitivechallenge or is this too
complicated, too complex, and isthis frustration?
I think we have to read theroom when we are thinking about
what our learners' brains canhandle.
(27:10):
When we do that, I feel likemore success, because we're
again creating those points ofyou can push yourself into this
greater thinking task, or do youneed a break?
Do you need to let what youjust did settle for a little bit
?
Reading the room is reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Reading the room and, if possible, know who you're
working with.
Yeah, excellent.
Thanks once again for a greatchat, tammy.
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning ServicesForward Thinking Educator
Support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at Plan Z PLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaya Moretti.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.