January 14, 2025 • 26 mins
Join us on a transformative journey with our special guest, Dan Tricarico, a veteran high school teacher who has seamlessly woven Zen principles into the fabric of his teaching. Uncover Dan's inspiring story of navigating the throes of burnout and emerging with a toolkit of mindfulness strategies that not only reignited his passion for education but also equipped him with the means to sustain it. This episode promises to offer you practical insights into balancing the demands of teaching with personal passions, such as writing and photography, creating a fulfilling and well-rounded life. Dan's approach is a beacon for educators feeling the weight of stress, providing relatable and impactful strategies to maintain enthusiasm and effectiveness in their careers.
We also explore the liberating power of subtraction, as inspired by the book "Subtract." Discover how intentionally removing the clutter—both physical and mental—can lead to greater mindfulness and clarity. Through personal stories, we illustrate the freedom that comes with simplification and reflection, especially significant in today's post-pandemic world. Educators face unique challenges, and this episode encourages embracing gradual change rather than seeking immediate results, drawing from diverse professions to enrich teaching practices. Whether you're a newcomer to the field or a seasoned educator pondering retirement, these insights offer encouragement and actionable strategies for achieving balance and fulfillment.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of
the Minimalist Educator podcast.
I'm here with Tammy today.
How are you, tammy?
I am feeling pretty good.
How are you, christine?
I'm doing well.
I'm very excited for ourepisode today.
We are doing a countdown of ourtop three most popular episodes
(00:58):
and our episode today is thethird most popular episode,
coming in with the bronze medal.
We have episode 21, subtractingthe Unnecessary with Dan
Tricarico.
What do you remember from thisepisode, tammy?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, I know that we talked with Dan at the start of
our last season and he is justlike his work around the Zen
teacher really.
It's just so him like I lovetalking to him because he
exemplifies that Zen feeling andlike he's still a high school
(01:40):
teacher.
He's been teaching for over 30years now and him bringing in
ideas of teaching is a hardthing to do.
It does really burn people out.
But there's these things thatwe can do to help us be more
centered.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And just the way he talks about them like you just
feel like you have to do themright away because he just like
he exemplifies that feelingwhere he, you know he he
practices what he preachesabsolutely for sure I like that
he was so open about sharing hisown experiences with burnout
(02:17):
but then also identified thatthese changes in his approach
and his thoughts aroundmindfulness and everything else
he actually articulates in theepisode like this, is going to
carry me through to retirement.
Like I know, with this newapproach I can make it all the
way to retirement, which Ithought was really really cool
(02:39):
of him to say.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, I think that's really relatable, because it
doesn't really matter where youare in your career.
Either, right, whether you're afew years in and you want to
teach, you know, for another 30years, or you're keep your
sanity and think about what'simportant to you while still
being a great teacher.
Because he is a great teacherand he doesn't take it lightly.
(03:19):
It's a serious job, but hemakes sure he carves out time to
do the things that he loves,which, in one of them, is
writing, and he's writinganother book, which is amazing.
So, yeah, so, just like some ofthose practices that he does
and his pictures that he shareson social media are just so
beautiful.
Capturing one of them is likecapturing other educators and,
(03:44):
yeah, the the photos are justreally beautiful, and so it's
nice that he does that forhimself as one of his hobbies,
but also just capturing thosephotos for people, so they can
see their beauty too.
So it's just like, you know,it's not just for himself, but
it's for other people too.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, he's got the passion still for education, but
he also, you know, is a reallywell-rounded human and he thinks
about a lot of differentaspects of what makes him him.
So, yeah, a really nice episode, and I think I can see why
people are drawn to it and whyit's come in as our third most
(04:25):
popular episode.
Yeah, me too.
So we hope you all enjoyre-listening to the wonderful
Dan Tricarico.
Hi everyone, and welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator.
We're very lucky today to haveDan Tricarico with us.
Welcome, dan.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Thanks for letting me be here.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes and everyone.
If you're recognizing thatvoice already, that is because
Dan is our intro and outrospeaker, so you will be very
familiar with his voice by now.
How have things been going, dan?
How are you?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Doing.
Okay, we were just talking alittle bit before we started
recording that.
Um, I need to kind of take moreof my own uh advice and and
just take some things out and,just like you all, preach.
Um, you know, because it's beena little bumpy, but I I'm
learning that I just need tosubtract and minimal, minimalize
and everything's gonna be fineyeah, it's easy to get caught up
(05:24):
in things right, especiallylike you still teach and you
know, teach the.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
To me, the scary people are like the second,
second most scary people thehigh schoolers.
And so, like that's, that's alot of work and getting like
you're still fairly new intoyour school year, aren't you?
Or no, sorry, you're prettyinto it because you started
mid-August.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Right, yeah, it's about seven weeks now, but you
know we had a schedule changeand we've had some political
things going on, and so thisyear has been a little bumpy.
Last year was a dream and itwas super smooth, and that's the
yin and yang of school, as youknow.
I mean, some years are smoothand some years are less so.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, and you know people listening
to this now they're going to belike but it's January or
February, but you know, such isa recording schedule, but anyway
.
So you're known for a fewreally important things in the
education world.
One of them is the Zen teacherbook, education world.
(06:29):
One of them is the Zen teacherbook.
Can you tell us how you cameabout feeling like you needed to
write about Zen and teaching,because they're kind of
different?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yes, and I thought they should kind of be
integrated, you know, as anapproach to dealing with things
like stress reduction andself-care and avoiding burnout.
And it all started about 2013,2014,.
Somewhere in there.
I just was facing massiveburnout and wondering if how I
(06:58):
was going to make it toretirement.
And, you know, I things werenot good at home in the marriage
I was in, and so it just thatwhole period was very bumpy and
I thought I have to do something.
And I started thinking back to Iwas a drama major and an actor
and I started thinking back tomy acting classes and the acting
teachers used to talk aboutbeing in the moment and
(07:21):
meditation and breathingexercises and relaxation
exercises, and they talked aboutsomething they called a relaxed
preparedness meaning if you, asa performer, you were relaxed
but you were ready to go, youwere calm but you were ready to
perform.
And I thought, well, that'swhat teachers need, you know.
So I started a blog called theZen teacher and it's funny.
(07:44):
I remember one day I was takinga walk around the neighborhood
just trying to calm down orwhatever, and I was just
debating in my head what am Igoing to do?
How am I going to get throughall this and I said, gosh, it's
almost like they expect you tobe a Zen teacher or something.
And then I just stopped and thelight went on and I ran home
(08:04):
and the first thing I did wascheck to see if the domain name
was available, because that'sthe world we live in.
And in 2014, the zenteachercomwas available and I thought well
, that's a sign from theuniverse.
You know that this is my newpath, you know.
So the blog became the book andthe book became workshops.
And here we are.
Awesome.
(08:42):
That's great, and we're talkinglike 10 years ago I had 10
years, now I have two or three,you know.
So I'm going to make it.
And then the icing on the cakewas just the ability to have
other teachers come back to meand say you helped and your book
helped.
I mean, what's better than that?
(09:10):
Yeah, that's awesome, that'sfantastic, and so you still find
time for mindfulness and Zenpractices throughout your week,
and what is?
Can you tell us a little bitabout what that looks like?
Sure, I think it's supercritical and I the first big
mindset shift and I think maybea lot of your listeners need to
think about this too is Ithought, like many people, I
don't have time for that, I'mtoo busy, right, and one of the
things I preach is everybody hasfive minutes and you know, you,
(09:32):
you don't think you have fiveminutes.
Stop scrolling and you havefive minutes it's.
It's just mindless instead ofmindful to just be scrolling
with your thumb on that phone.
But if you just stop that, youhave the five minutes to listen
to a soothing song or call yourmom or pet your dog or whatever
(09:54):
it is.
That's going to calm you downand reduce that stress and bring
back that sense of centerednessand groundedness.
That's so important because welive in a society and a culture
that does not value any of thethings that any of us here are
talking about, and so it has tobe an intentional and conscious
choice, and so, for me, I reallydo make it intentional.
(10:19):
I have little rituals of silenceand stillness and meditation.
I would not say I have a verystructured meditation.
I don't meditate for 30 minutesevery morning, as some people
do, which is great, but I'm thekind of person who, when I'm
driving and I hit a red light, Itake three deep breaths and I
resist that temptation to grabfor my phone.
(10:41):
Most or many times, I won'teven say most of the time the
first impulse is always to grabthat phone, and fighting against
that is probably the hardestthing, but it's just finding
times in your day where you cantake even just a few minutes to
disconnect from the rat race themerry-go-round that is our
current culture.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I definitely appreciate looking at your
social media posts becauseyou're into photography too and
I feel like that's a nice way tojust stay in the moment
sometimes is you know you, youare in the moment, but then you
capture this kind of beautifullike blue sky or palm trees or
um balboa park or things likethat.
(11:24):
It's just really we need toslow down, right?
We?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
need to slow down to like appreciate and notice
things yeah yeah, I always saynotice what you notice yeah,
it's very meta.
Yeah, it is very meta and thefunny thing about the
photography is it really was achicken and egg kind of
situation, because I've alwaysloved photography and I and I
don't, and when I started doingit now, since the books came out
and I've been you doingworkshops and everything is I
(11:51):
also realized what a mindfulactivity it is.
In fact, I incorporated it intomy workshops and now I have the
people who are in the workshopstake their phones and for 15
minutes just go and takepictures of whatever they notice
and come back and talk about it.
So I don't know if I lovephotography because it's mindful
or I realized that it's mindfulbecause I do photography.
(12:12):
I don't know which one, but Ido.
I do love that for that reason,tammy Exactly, it slows me down
, it allows me to notice what Inotice and to be in the moment.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I love that.
Have you heard people talkingabout glimmers recently?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, and I was mad at them.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh really why.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You're talking about glimmers.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, like the opposite of triggers, glimmers.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Because years ago, I came up with something I called
pamper triggers, which is thesame thing as a glimmer, and I
wanted to hijack that wordtrigger because it was so
negative and I said, hey, whydon't we make this into a
positive?
You know, and pamper triggersare those things to me that make
you feel taken care of, soothedand comforted, and we all have
(12:56):
them, so I call them pampertriggers.
There's a chapter in theSanctuary's book called pamper
triggers, but glimmers is fine.
I'm just teasing about beingmad.
Whatever gets people to takecare of themselves, I'm down
with yeah, whatever's in the inthe conversation, right?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
yeah, it's definitely worthwhile.
Worthwhile, yeah, I just read abook called subtract and I'm
you know it's making me think alot about what you're talking
about with, with zen and andmindfulness and so on, but a
little bit more active in in itsapproach rather than just being
a passive moment.
(13:31):
It's more like activelythinking about what you can take
away.
Can you talk about some of theparallels between what you've
been working on and that sort ofthinking?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
yeah, I read that book and I was fascinated by
that book.
And one of the things you knowand just going to this is not a
criticism, it's just a fact isI'm not a super big science guy,
but that was.
There was a lot of science,which is great because you want
empirical evidence to you knowback up what you're saying, but
those parts were harder for meto wrap my brain around, but I
(14:05):
really loved the message and Ireally loved the strategies that
that author talked about.
I'll just tell you a quickstory.
Is, you know, because I figured, as I was thinking about being
on the show today, that thiswould really fit into what we
were talking about, is I had alittle time today and so there
(14:26):
was a.
I've been in this, this condo,for about two years and the
people I bought it from leftthis giant humidifier and it's
nice, you know, and but it'sjust been sitting here and I
thought, well, maybe I'll use it, or maybe I should sell it if I
don't want it, or maybe I'llgive it to somebody or whatever.
And it's just, I haven't usedit, and so I put it outside with
(14:47):
a sign on it that said free toa good home.
I don't even know if it's justI haven't used it and so I put
it outside with a sign on itthat said free to a good home.
I don't even know if it's stillthere anymore.
I had a box of my daughter'scollege textbooks that I bought
off of her, thinking I wouldsell them on eBay.
The ones I put on there didn'tsell and I ran out of time, and
so I put those out to see ifanybody wants those.
And now I have more space in mycondo and it's not a huge condo,
(15:08):
so it matters, you know, andit's just the idea of we can,
all you know it's we think it'soverwhelming, it's intimidating.
Oh, I can't tackle it, it's toobig, but it's really doing a
lot of little things over time,and it's the overtime part that
that really makes a difference.
And so that was just a littlestory about how I subtracted
(15:33):
today, and there's just a loadoff when you kind of get rid of
all that flotsam and jetsamthat's hanging around you,
there's a freedom and aliberation and you feel like you
have more breathing room, whichis awesome.
And again, being an actor and adrama major, I was a pack rat.
I was like, oh, this hat, thispair of glasses, this bow tie I
(15:55):
might use it in a play sometime.
It might be good for acharacter.
So all this stuff just piled up.
I'm not that guy anymore.
Now I like streamlined, simple,minimalist.
That's what I'm all about.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
I think what you've said about over time is really
powerful, because we do live inthis like immediacy time, right,
Like everything is you get yourphone out and you can look
something up immediately, orlike just having immediate
gratification.
But it really is a process,right.
(16:30):
If you want to truly spend thetime to you know one thing at a
time out of your house, itdoesn't have to be that
immediate Like I'm going to havethis gigantic garage sale,
which is a lot of preparation,by the way.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Right, like who has time for that?
But you know it's a, it's a lotof work to set all of that up.
But if you you know the nicething is we have facebook
marketplace or like differentthings, put it out on your curb
like you did um it.
It is helpful to think ofthings and this kind of goes
back to, like, what we weresaying about slowing down.
It doesn't have to be fast.
(17:07):
And maybe it should be, becausewhen things are fast, we lose
sight of things.
Right, we've forgotten whywe're doing something.
But if we allow ourselves totake some time and be reflective
about what we're doing and whywe're doing it, it's so helpful,
right?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
It's so helpful chance to fix up my room.
And what I did was I divided itinto sections and I said, okay,
this week it's the counterunder the windows, next week
it's the classroom, the nextweek it's going to be my office
area in the back, and by threeor four weeks, like you're
saying, it didn't have to befast, but then I was ready.
(18:07):
I mean, it only took four weeks, but you know, but that was you
know what, what was necessaryat the time, and and that's okay
, you do what you have to do.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure, we really enjoy listening to your
podcast as a professional, and Inoticed that one of the things
I really enjoy about the podcastis that you talk to people from
lots of different fields withlots of different experiences.
So what do you think we canlearn from other professions to
help us in our world ofeducation?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
A great question.
And you know, it's so weirdbecause I think Tammy was kind
of saying this earlier, I can'tremember when we were recording
or not that there's no job likethis.
Teaching is a very uniqueposition.
I say I haven't worked in thereal world in 30 years.
I mean, we're very shelteredand isolated in some ways.
(19:01):
But I started thinking about howwell everybody is, probably,
especially in this post-pandemicworld or quasi-post-pandemic
world.
Everybody is struggling withstress, everybody is struggling
with anxiety, everybody isstruggling with how am I going
to make this happen, how am Igoing to get this all done?
And we have to allow for thatand we have to fight against
(19:26):
that impulse, to fight againstthat impulse.
And I think that in thecorporate world or the business
world, as Tammy says, thatimmediacy or that sense of
urgency is even more pressingthan it is in teaching and in
education.
For better or worse, andsometimes both, the education
pendulum moves really slowly,like glacier pace, right.
(19:48):
But you know, if you think aboutI don't know doctors or lawyers
or you know corporate magnatetype people, they're on a
schedule like it's got to happenright now and that can increase
the stress.
So I thought, well, I'm goingto broaden my message and kind
of fold those folks into andbring those people into my
(20:09):
message so that I can maybestart helping them as well.
You know, once the you know myplatform was established in the
education community, I had thebandwidth to do that and I've
you know, teachers are always inmy heart.
I will always love teachers andwork with teachers.
But I just thought I wanted toinclude other people because I
thought they were going throughit too.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Here in the Netherlands we'vegot a policy where it's to
protect us but they try andcount how many minutes or hours
we work during the week and I'venever seen a situation like
this before and you know prosand cons it may have.
It does make me think about theeffect on people who have
(20:56):
billable hours and you knownumber targets and things like
this, that they, you know, needto have this many emails done or
this many clients reached outto, and I think it is something
that teachers might not alwaysrealise other people are
existing under thesemeasurements.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Exactly, exactly, and , as I said and as you said, it
just creates a lot of stress orcan.
And I don't think.
Well, I think businesses arestarting to talk about employee
well-being, but, much like ineducation and you've both seen
this too there's a lot of talkabout self-care and well-being,
but then it's like, oh, but dothese 40 things while you're
(21:35):
taking care of yourself?
Yes, and it's kind ofoxymoronic, I guess would be the
fancy term because you can't doit that way.
And so that's why I always saythat it's our own responsibility
to be intentional about it.
Nobody else is going to do itfor us.
I say you know I can be reallytired and nobody's going to come
(21:58):
up to me and go.
You know what, danny?
You probably need a nap.
You know I have to listen tothose signals.
It's not going to come fromsomewhere else.
So we have to agree.
And it's going to rufflefeathers and people are going to
look at you funny, because theydon't get to do it or they
don't choose to do it and it'snot part of the system.
So you look subversive, youlook rebellious, which also is
(22:20):
kind of fun.
But you know, yeah, you know.
So you, you have to do it, andand that's been my mission is to
tell people you know what it's.
Not only is it up to you to doit, but it's okay if you do it
and you should do it.
I always say that everything Italk about, everybody knows.
They're just reminders, youknow, and mostly they were
(22:43):
reminders for me when I waswriting the blog and the book.
I just wanted to put it down sothat I could look at it later
and go, yeah, I need to do that.
But what I didn't expect isthat's how it's working for
everybody else too.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, given us a lot to think about.
It's always great to like readyour work and listen to you.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
And your voice is also very soothing.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
People keep telling me that I don't.
I don't feel.
Thank you, yeah, and and thankyou for speaking in my voice for
um.
Uh, letting me be your introand outro.
That's super special.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Thank you, no, we appreciate it very much.
Um, as we wrap up this episodewith you, we always ask our
guests for a pare down pointeror two for our listeners.
So what would you give to ourlisteners today from today's
episode, or something inaddition?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Oh well, I have an idea that I wanted to share that
I think is related to what wewere talking about earlier in
the episode.
And sometimes I say, if you'reworking on minimizing things and
decluttering, throw away 10things a day.
And of course, when I say throwaway because it's easy but it
might be recycling or givingaway or donating or something
(24:01):
like that, but if you throw away10 things a day, everybody can
do that.
That takes 10 minutes, right.
But if you think about the math, after a week you've thrown
away 70 things.
That's a lot of things and itcreates some space.
And then the great thing andthis is what I will leave you
all with and leave yourlisteners with is when you
(24:24):
commit to doing some of thesethings, you're going to realize
how wonderful it is and thenyou're going to want to do more.
So you don't have to start big,like we said, start small.
But I can almost guarantee thatwhen you start small and you do
it, you're going to love it.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Thank you, dan, that's awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
It was great to be here.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Thank you so much for your time today.
We really appreciate it, ofcourse.
So there you have it.
It our revisit with episode 21and dan tricarico.
We hope you enjoyed listeningto our third most popular
podcast episode and we hope youwill join us again to find out
what came in as our second mostpopular episode.
(25:05):
See you, then.
Today's episode was brought toyou by the Zen Teacher.
The Zen Teacher helps youcreate focus, simplicity and
tranquility by encouraging amore Zen-inspired, mindful
approach in the classroom.
Find out more atthezenteachercom.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of
the Minimalist Educator podcast.
I'm here with Tammy today.
How are you, tammy?
I am feeling pretty good.
How are you, christine?
I'm doing well.
I'm very excited for ourepisode today.
We are doing a countdown of ourtop three most popular episodes
(00:58):
and our episode today is thethird most popular episode,
coming in with the bronze medal.
We have episode 21, subtractingthe Unnecessary with Dan
Tricarico.
What do you remember from thisepisode, tammy?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, I know that we talked with Dan at the start of
our last season and he is justlike his work around the Zen
teacher really.
It's just so him like I lovetalking to him because he
exemplifies that Zen feeling andlike he's still a high school
(01:40):
teacher.
He's been teaching for over 30years now and him bringing in
ideas of teaching is a hardthing to do.
It does really burn people out.
But there's these things thatwe can do to help us be more
centered.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And just the way he talks about them like you just
feel like you have to do themright away because he just like
he exemplifies that feelingwhere he, you know he he
practices what he preachesabsolutely for sure I like that
he was so open about sharing hisown experiences with burnout
(02:17):
but then also identified thatthese changes in his approach
and his thoughts aroundmindfulness and everything else
he actually articulates in theepisode like this, is going to
carry me through to retirement.
Like I know, with this newapproach I can make it all the
way to retirement, which Ithought was really really cool
(02:39):
of him to say.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, I think that's really relatable, because it
doesn't really matter where youare in your career.
Either, right, whether you're afew years in and you want to
teach, you know, for another 30years, or you're keep your
sanity and think about what'simportant to you while still
being a great teacher.
Because he is a great teacherand he doesn't take it lightly.
(03:19):
It's a serious job, but hemakes sure he carves out time to
do the things that he loves,which, in one of them, is
writing, and he's writinganother book, which is amazing.
So, yeah, so, just like some ofthose practices that he does
and his pictures that he shareson social media are just so
beautiful.
Capturing one of them is likecapturing other educators and,
(03:44):
yeah, the the photos are justreally beautiful, and so it's
nice that he does that forhimself as one of his hobbies,
but also just capturing thosephotos for people, so they can
see their beauty too.
So it's just like, you know,it's not just for himself, but
it's for other people too.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, he's got the passion still for education, but
he also, you know, is a reallywell-rounded human and he thinks
about a lot of differentaspects of what makes him him.
So, yeah, a really nice episode, and I think I can see why
people are drawn to it and whyit's come in as our third most
(04:25):
popular episode.
Yeah, me too.
So we hope you all enjoyre-listening to the wonderful
Dan Tricarico.
Hi everyone, and welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator.
We're very lucky today to haveDan Tricarico with us.
Welcome, dan.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Thanks for letting me be here.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes and everyone.
If you're recognizing thatvoice already, that is because
Dan is our intro and outrospeaker, so you will be very
familiar with his voice by now.
How have things been going, dan?
How are you?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Doing.
Okay, we were just talking alittle bit before we started
recording that.
Um, I need to kind of take moreof my own uh advice and and
just take some things out and,just like you all, preach.
Um, you know, because it's beena little bumpy, but I I'm
learning that I just need tosubtract and minimal, minimalize
and everything's gonna be fineyeah, it's easy to get caught up
(05:24):
in things right, especiallylike you still teach and you
know, teach the.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
To me, the scary people are like the second,
second most scary people thehigh schoolers.
And so, like that's, that's alot of work and getting like
you're still fairly new intoyour school year, aren't you?
Or no, sorry, you're prettyinto it because you started
mid-August.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Right, yeah, it's about seven weeks now, but you
know we had a schedule changeand we've had some political
things going on, and so thisyear has been a little bumpy.
Last year was a dream and itwas super smooth, and that's the
yin and yang of school, as youknow.
I mean, some years are smoothand some years are less so.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, and you know people listening
to this now they're going to belike but it's January or
February, but you know, such isa recording schedule, but anyway
.
So you're known for a fewreally important things in the
education world.
One of them is the Zen teacherbook, education world.
(06:29):
One of them is the Zen teacherbook.
Can you tell us how you cameabout feeling like you needed to
write about Zen and teaching,because they're kind of
different?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yes, and I thought they should kind of be
integrated, you know, as anapproach to dealing with things
like stress reduction andself-care and avoiding burnout.
And it all started about 2013,2014,.
Somewhere in there.
I just was facing massiveburnout and wondering if how I
(06:58):
was going to make it toretirement.
And, you know, I things werenot good at home in the marriage
I was in, and so it just thatwhole period was very bumpy and
I thought I have to do something.
And I started thinking back to Iwas a drama major and an actor
and I started thinking back tomy acting classes and the acting
teachers used to talk aboutbeing in the moment and
(07:21):
meditation and breathingexercises and relaxation
exercises, and they talked aboutsomething they called a relaxed
preparedness meaning if you, asa performer, you were relaxed
but you were ready to go, youwere calm but you were ready to
perform.
And I thought, well, that'swhat teachers need, you know.
So I started a blog called theZen teacher and it's funny.
(07:44):
I remember one day I was takinga walk around the neighborhood
just trying to calm down orwhatever, and I was just
debating in my head what am Igoing to do?
How am I going to get throughall this and I said, gosh, it's
almost like they expect you tobe a Zen teacher or something.
And then I just stopped and thelight went on and I ran home
(08:04):
and the first thing I did wascheck to see if the domain name
was available, because that'sthe world we live in.
And in 2014, the zenteachercomwas available and I thought well
, that's a sign from theuniverse.
You know that this is my newpath, you know.
So the blog became the book andthe book became workshops.
And here we are.
Awesome.
(08:42):
That's great, and we're talkinglike 10 years ago I had 10
years, now I have two or three,you know.
So I'm going to make it.
And then the icing on the cakewas just the ability to have
other teachers come back to meand say you helped and your book
helped.
I mean, what's better than that?
(09:10):
Yeah, that's awesome, that'sfantastic, and so you still find
time for mindfulness and Zenpractices throughout your week,
and what is?
Can you tell us a little bitabout what that looks like?
Sure, I think it's supercritical and I the first big
mindset shift and I think maybea lot of your listeners need to
think about this too is Ithought, like many people, I
don't have time for that, I'mtoo busy, right, and one of the
things I preach is everybody hasfive minutes and you know, you,
(09:32):
you don't think you have fiveminutes.
Stop scrolling and you havefive minutes it's.
It's just mindless instead ofmindful to just be scrolling
with your thumb on that phone.
But if you just stop that, youhave the five minutes to listen
to a soothing song or call yourmom or pet your dog or whatever
(09:54):
it is.
That's going to calm you downand reduce that stress and bring
back that sense of centerednessand groundedness.
That's so important because welive in a society and a culture
that does not value any of thethings that any of us here are
talking about, and so it has tobe an intentional and conscious
choice, and so, for me, I reallydo make it intentional.
(10:19):
I have little rituals of silenceand stillness and meditation.
I would not say I have a verystructured meditation.
I don't meditate for 30 minutesevery morning, as some people
do, which is great, but I'm thekind of person who, when I'm
driving and I hit a red light, Itake three deep breaths and I
resist that temptation to grabfor my phone.
(10:41):
Most or many times, I won'teven say most of the time the
first impulse is always to grabthat phone, and fighting against
that is probably the hardestthing, but it's just finding
times in your day where you cantake even just a few minutes to
disconnect from the rat race themerry-go-round that is our
current culture.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I definitely appreciate looking at your
social media posts becauseyou're into photography too and
I feel like that's a nice way tojust stay in the moment
sometimes is you know you, youare in the moment, but then you
capture this kind of beautifullike blue sky or palm trees or
um balboa park or things likethat.
(11:24):
It's just really we need toslow down, right?
We?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
need to slow down to like appreciate and notice
things yeah yeah, I always saynotice what you notice yeah,
it's very meta.
Yeah, it is very meta and thefunny thing about the
photography is it really was achicken and egg kind of
situation, because I've alwaysloved photography and I and I
don't, and when I started doingit now, since the books came out
and I've been you doingworkshops and everything is I
(11:51):
also realized what a mindfulactivity it is.
In fact, I incorporated it intomy workshops and now I have the
people who are in the workshopstake their phones and for 15
minutes just go and takepictures of whatever they notice
and come back and talk about it.
So I don't know if I lovephotography because it's mindful
or I realized that it's mindfulbecause I do photography.
(12:12):
I don't know which one, but Ido.
I do love that for that reason,tammy Exactly, it slows me down
, it allows me to notice what Inotice and to be in the moment.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I love that.
Have you heard people talkingabout glimmers recently?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, and I was mad at them.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh really why.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You're talking about glimmers.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, like the opposite of triggers, glimmers.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Because years ago, I came up with something I called
pamper triggers, which is thesame thing as a glimmer, and I
wanted to hijack that wordtrigger because it was so
negative and I said, hey, whydon't we make this into a
positive?
You know, and pamper triggersare those things to me that make
you feel taken care of, soothedand comforted, and we all have
(12:56):
them, so I call them pampertriggers.
There's a chapter in theSanctuary's book called pamper
triggers, but glimmers is fine.
I'm just teasing about beingmad.
Whatever gets people to takecare of themselves, I'm down
with yeah, whatever's in the inthe conversation, right?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
yeah, it's definitely worthwhile.
Worthwhile, yeah, I just read abook called subtract and I'm
you know it's making me think alot about what you're talking
about with, with zen and andmindfulness and so on, but a
little bit more active in in itsapproach rather than just being
a passive moment.
(13:31):
It's more like activelythinking about what you can take
away.
Can you talk about some of theparallels between what you've
been working on and that sort ofthinking?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
yeah, I read that book and I was fascinated by
that book.
And one of the things you knowand just going to this is not a
criticism, it's just a fact isI'm not a super big science guy,
but that was.
There was a lot of science,which is great because you want
empirical evidence to you knowback up what you're saying, but
those parts were harder for meto wrap my brain around, but I
(14:05):
really loved the message and Ireally loved the strategies that
that author talked about.
I'll just tell you a quickstory.
Is, you know, because I figured, as I was thinking about being
on the show today, that thiswould really fit into what we
were talking about, is I had alittle time today and so there
(14:26):
was a.
I've been in this, this condo,for about two years and the
people I bought it from leftthis giant humidifier and it's
nice, you know, and but it'sjust been sitting here and I
thought, well, maybe I'll use it, or maybe I should sell it if I
don't want it, or maybe I'llgive it to somebody or whatever.
And it's just, I haven't usedit, and so I put it outside with
(14:47):
a sign on it that said free toa good home.
I don't even know if it's justI haven't used it and so I put
it outside with a sign on itthat said free to a good home.
I don't even know if it's stillthere anymore.
I had a box of my daughter'scollege textbooks that I bought
off of her, thinking I wouldsell them on eBay.
The ones I put on there didn'tsell and I ran out of time, and
so I put those out to see ifanybody wants those.
And now I have more space in mycondo and it's not a huge condo,
(15:08):
so it matters, you know, andit's just the idea of we can,
all you know it's we think it'soverwhelming, it's intimidating.
Oh, I can't tackle it, it's toobig, but it's really doing a
lot of little things over time,and it's the overtime part that
that really makes a difference.
And so that was just a littlestory about how I subtracted
(15:33):
today, and there's just a loadoff when you kind of get rid of
all that flotsam and jetsamthat's hanging around you,
there's a freedom and aliberation and you feel like you
have more breathing room, whichis awesome.
And again, being an actor and adrama major, I was a pack rat.
I was like, oh, this hat, thispair of glasses, this bow tie I
(15:55):
might use it in a play sometime.
It might be good for acharacter.
So all this stuff just piled up.
I'm not that guy anymore.
Now I like streamlined, simple,minimalist.
That's what I'm all about.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
I think what you've said about over time is really
powerful, because we do live inthis like immediacy time, right,
Like everything is you get yourphone out and you can look
something up immediately, orlike just having immediate
gratification.
But it really is a process,right.
(16:30):
If you want to truly spend thetime to you know one thing at a
time out of your house, itdoesn't have to be that
immediate Like I'm going to havethis gigantic garage sale,
which is a lot of preparation,by the way.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Right, like who has time for that?
But you know it's a, it's a lotof work to set all of that up.
But if you you know the nicething is we have facebook
marketplace or like differentthings, put it out on your curb
like you did um it.
It is helpful to think ofthings and this kind of goes
back to, like, what we weresaying about slowing down.
It doesn't have to be fast.
(17:07):
And maybe it should be, becausewhen things are fast, we lose
sight of things.
Right, we've forgotten whywe're doing something.
But if we allow ourselves totake some time and be reflective
about what we're doing and whywe're doing it, it's so helpful,
right?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
It's so helpful chance to fix up my room.
And what I did was I divided itinto sections and I said, okay,
this week it's the counterunder the windows, next week
it's the classroom, the nextweek it's going to be my office
area in the back, and by threeor four weeks, like you're
saying, it didn't have to befast, but then I was ready.
(18:07):
I mean, it only took four weeks, but you know, but that was you
know what, what was necessaryat the time, and and that's okay
, you do what you have to do.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, for sure, we really enjoy listening to your
podcast as a professional, and Inoticed that one of the things
I really enjoy about the podcastis that you talk to people from
lots of different fields withlots of different experiences.
So what do you think we canlearn from other professions to
help us in our world ofeducation?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
A great question.
And you know, it's so weirdbecause I think Tammy was kind
of saying this earlier, I can'tremember when we were recording
or not that there's no job likethis.
Teaching is a very uniqueposition.
I say I haven't worked in thereal world in 30 years.
I mean, we're very shelteredand isolated in some ways.
(19:01):
But I started thinking about howwell everybody is, probably,
especially in this post-pandemicworld or quasi-post-pandemic
world.
Everybody is struggling withstress, everybody is struggling
with anxiety, everybody isstruggling with how am I going
to make this happen, how am Igoing to get this all done?
And we have to allow for thatand we have to fight against
(19:26):
that impulse, to fight againstthat impulse.
And I think that in thecorporate world or the business
world, as Tammy says, thatimmediacy or that sense of
urgency is even more pressingthan it is in teaching and in
education.
For better or worse, andsometimes both, the education
pendulum moves really slowly,like glacier pace, right.
(19:48):
But you know, if you think aboutI don't know doctors or lawyers
or you know corporate magnatetype people, they're on a
schedule like it's got to happenright now and that can increase
the stress.
So I thought, well, I'm goingto broaden my message and kind
of fold those folks into andbring those people into my
(20:09):
message so that I can maybestart helping them as well.
You know, once the you know myplatform was established in the
education community, I had thebandwidth to do that and I've
you know, teachers are always inmy heart.
I will always love teachers andwork with teachers.
But I just thought I wanted toinclude other people because I
thought they were going throughit too.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Here in the Netherlands we'vegot a policy where it's to
protect us but they try andcount how many minutes or hours
we work during the week and I'venever seen a situation like
this before and you know prosand cons it may have.
It does make me think about theeffect on people who have
(20:56):
billable hours and you knownumber targets and things like
this, that they, you know, needto have this many emails done or
this many clients reached outto, and I think it is something
that teachers might not alwaysrealise other people are
existing under thesemeasurements.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Exactly, exactly, and , as I said and as you said, it
just creates a lot of stress orcan.
And I don't think.
Well, I think businesses arestarting to talk about employee
well-being, but, much like ineducation and you've both seen
this too there's a lot of talkabout self-care and well-being,
but then it's like, oh, but dothese 40 things while you're
(21:35):
taking care of yourself?
Yes, and it's kind ofoxymoronic, I guess would be the
fancy term because you can't doit that way.
And so that's why I always saythat it's our own responsibility
to be intentional about it.
Nobody else is going to do itfor us.
I say you know I can be reallytired and nobody's going to come
(21:58):
up to me and go.
You know what, danny?
You probably need a nap.
You know I have to listen tothose signals.
It's not going to come fromsomewhere else.
So we have to agree.
And it's going to rufflefeathers and people are going to
look at you funny, because theydon't get to do it or they
don't choose to do it and it'snot part of the system.
So you look subversive, youlook rebellious, which also is
(22:20):
kind of fun.
But you know, yeah, you know.
So you, you have to do it, andand that's been my mission is to
tell people you know what it's.
Not only is it up to you to doit, but it's okay if you do it
and you should do it.
I always say that everything Italk about, everybody knows.
They're just reminders, youknow, and mostly they were
(22:43):
reminders for me when I waswriting the blog and the book.
I just wanted to put it down sothat I could look at it later
and go, yeah, I need to do that.
But what I didn't expect isthat's how it's working for
everybody else too.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, given us a lot to think about.
It's always great to like readyour work and listen to you.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
And your voice is also very soothing.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
People keep telling me that I don't.
I don't feel.
Thank you, yeah, and and thankyou for speaking in my voice for
um.
Uh, letting me be your introand outro.
That's super special.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Thank you, no, we appreciate it very much.
Um, as we wrap up this episodewith you, we always ask our
guests for a pare down pointeror two for our listeners.
So what would you give to ourlisteners today from today's
episode, or something inaddition?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Oh well, I have an idea that I wanted to share that
I think is related to what wewere talking about earlier in
the episode.
And sometimes I say, if you'reworking on minimizing things and
decluttering, throw away 10things a day.
And of course, when I say throwaway because it's easy but it
might be recycling or givingaway or donating or something
(24:01):
like that, but if you throw away10 things a day, everybody can
do that.
That takes 10 minutes, right.
But if you think about the math, after a week you've thrown
away 70 things.
That's a lot of things and itcreates some space.
And then the great thing andthis is what I will leave you
all with and leave yourlisteners with is when you
(24:24):
commit to doing some of thesethings, you're going to realize
how wonderful it is and thenyou're going to want to do more.
So you don't have to start big,like we said, start small.
But I can almost guarantee thatwhen you start small and you do
it, you're going to love it.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Thank you, dan, that's awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
It was great to be here.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Thank you so much for your time today.
We really appreciate it, ofcourse.
So there you have it.
It our revisit with episode 21and dan tricarico.
We hope you enjoyed listeningto our third most popular
podcast episode and we hope youwill join us again to find out
what came in as our second mostpopular episode.
(25:05):
See you, then.
Today's episode was brought toyou by the Zen Teacher.
The Zen Teacher helps youcreate focus, simplicity and
tranquility by encouraging amore Zen-inspired, mindful
approach in the classroom.
Find out more atthezenteachercom.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
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