January 21, 2025 • 28 mins
Could embracing minimalism and advocating for yourself transform your teaching and personal life? Join us as we promise to uncover how reducing unnecessary workloads and protecting personal time can lead to a more fulfilling and effective educational experience. Tammy Musiowsky-Borneman and Christine Arnold revisit a beloved discussion, spotlighting how involving students more actively in their learning can help educators maintain a healthier work-life balance. By recognizing our students' capabilities, we can create opportunities for productive struggle, lessen our stress, and improve student engagement. We'll share stories and strategies for aligning our teaching with minimalist principles that empower both educators and learners.
Teacher wellness and sustainability are at the heart of this episode, highlighting how prioritizing self-care can have a ripple effect on student well-being. With the ongoing challenge of substitute teacher shortages, the guilt of taking necessary sick days can be overwhelming, yet essential for maintaining effective practice. We explore the power of student-centered learning to alleviate pressures and foster a supportive classroom environment. By modeling wellness and advocating for our needs, we set a powerful example for our students and their families. Tune in and connect with our community on social media as we continue our journey toward simplicity and effectiveness in education.
Naomi Church, Chief Learning Officer at Growing Minds Consulting, is a speaker, author, experienced educator, and credentialed coach. She served in very large public school districts for almost 20 years as a Professional Development Specialist, Math intervention specialist, RtI Coordinator, Instructional Coach, and teacher leader. Naomi created a Mathematics for Struggling Learners training for the Florida Diagnostic and Learning Resources System (FDLRS) that is being implemented across the State of Florida. In her role as the Chief Learning Officer of Growing Minds Consulting, Naomi now works with schools, districts and departments of education to help make education more inclusive and equitable for all. As the President of Learning Forward Florida, Naomi is helping to re-envision professional learning for educators to maximize engagement, value and implementation. Naomi is passionate about professional learning and building capacity in teachers and families to increase student success.
Resources written by Naomi:
The Value of Choice Blog Post
The Homework Debate: What is the ‘Right’ Homework? Blog Post
Reteaching vs. Remediation Blog Post
Resources Naomi recommends:
Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics: 14 Teaching Practices for Enhancing Learning by Peter Liljedahl
Productive Math Struggle: A 6-Point action Plan for Fostering Perseverance by John SanGiovanni, Susie Klatt, K
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiewski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of
the podcast.
It's Tammy and myself today.
How are you going, Tammy?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am doing well.
Thank you very much, Christine.
How about you?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I am good, I'm excited to share our second most
popular episode of the podcast.
Today we are sharing a revisitof episode 20, which was an
episode just with you and I,tammy, about embracing
minimalism and self-advocacy.
(01:08):
What do you think grabbedeveryone's attention about that
title?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, it's interesting because I was kind
of surprised by this one, butthen maybe I shouldn't be,
because maybe it's the wordsself-advocacy, which we don't
often do as educators.
Honestly, I think that we, right, we tend to just kind of keep
(01:37):
going and going and going andjust doing things for other
people, but in this episode wetalk about some specific things
to help advocate for ourselvesand not like hard things
honestly.
Well, I guess they can feel hard, Like if we talk about
protecting our time at home, forexample, that can feel hard
(01:59):
because you can, you know, youmight sit down with your laptop
and you're going to look atsomething that's like a personal
thing or whatever, and then youget drawn into oh, let me just
look at what's coming up nextweek at school, and so that can
be one of those habits that youknow, we just don't really think
anything about it and then youknow an hour later like, oh, my
(02:22):
God, I wasn't even going to bedo this right now.
I was actually going to likeplan my trip to wherever I got
sidetracked by work, and so wehave to be really careful about
that time protection at home andI think you know, sometimes
just talking about those thingsto protect ourselves is really
(02:43):
important, and we don't do themvery well sometimes.
This is true.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
This is very true and I think another interesting
thing that came up in thisparticular episode that I feel
like we're starting to see apattern emerging now when we're
talking to people about how tobe more of a minimalist, how to
strategize and do less, and it'sthat theme of we've got to get
(03:10):
the students more involved.
It can't just be us, as theteacher, making all the
decisions, doing all the work,all the thinking, all the
talking.
So that has come up with quitea few of our guests now and it
comes up again in this episodeas well.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, I think that we really under not
underappreciate, underestimatewhat students can do themselves
because we spend so much timethinking about how can we
scaffold the learning or how canI make this easier for them,
scaffold the learning or how canI make this easier for them.
But, honestly, we're stealingproductive learning time and
(03:48):
productive struggle fromstudents when we do that and it
makes more work for us.
So this is something that I'vebeen talking a lot with teachers
about recently just what arethe ways that you are making
sure that the opportunities areopen for students to do the
things that they can do?
Even when you think that theycan't, they will surprise you
(04:12):
and that is from you know skillsor skills and routines, but
also sometimes content, right?
So, like, why spend timeteaching something that your
students already know?
Like you're just wasting yourtime and it's it's a comfort
(04:32):
thing for sure, cause we're like, well, I'm just following my
plan and I'm, you know, movingalong, but you're doing a
disservice to yourself later onwhen you're like, oh, I should
have cut that short, cause Ineed this time now later for
this other thing that theyaren't really getting and I know
that's off a little bit fromstudent agency.
But it's like just thinkingabout the time use of.
You know how we're using thetime in the classroom and we can
(04:53):
save a lot of time when we letkids take ownership more and
realize that they can do morethan we realize sometimes, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Absolutely, and I think, as always, that important
piece when it comes toself-advocacy is just reminding
ourselves and each other to havethese conversations, to talk
about what we're doing, to tryand manage the workload and have
that work-life balance and be alittle bit more intentional in
(05:24):
what we're doing at school.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I agree, and the accountability partners or, um,
whoever you know your, yourbuddies at school and outside of
work, are the people that youneed to help carry you through,
sometimes to give you thatreminder like hey, you've been
doing this for a long time,you've been like in your, in
(05:49):
your hole of planning, where areyou?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
We haven't seen you all day.
Come out and see some people.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Right and again, like time just flies when you're
having fun or not.
So just yeah, remembering tojust prioritize yourself,
because if you don't, no oneelse will and you're needed,
right, and that's like not aguilt thing, it's just like
(06:18):
that's the role you're in andpeople need you and they need
you well, absolutely For sure inand people need you and they
need you well, absolutely forsure.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So, having said all of that, we hope you enjoy
re-listening to episode 20,embracing Minimalism and
Self-Advocacy.
Hi everybody, and welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'm here with Tammy today.
How are you, tammy?
I'm pretty good, christine.
I don't have any realcomplaints, which is sometimes
unusual, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah, pretty good, pretty good.
We are talking about advocatingfor minimalism today and
hopefully inspiring othersaround us with some aims and
aspirations in minimalism.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yes, yes, because it can feel hard, as we've talked
about you know a few times inour previous episodes last
season, just how much we have todo, um, just how how much we
have to do.
(07:30):
But we really do need toadvocate for the, not only the
idea but the actions that we cantake for just getting a little
bit simpler, because things arejust overly complicated
sometimes and we lose sight ofwhat it is, that what we're
doing in our roles and whatwe're doing in our schools, and
it feels it's just too much.
And so if we can advocate fortearing down, refocusing on our
(07:55):
priorities, it's going to bereally beneficial to not only
the educators in various rolesin schools, for students,
because then they know that youknow we're not floundering
around because of other thingswe can.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
actually, you know, they know that they're the focus
rather than sometimes, you knowteachers can drop the stress on
the students without reallymeaning to because of you know
that's what stress does exactly,and I think teaching is one of
those professions where not onlyis it very busy, very hectic,
(08:35):
whilst you're actually at work,but it's very common and
presumed normal to work in theevenings and work on weekends
and work in your vacation time,and I know that that adds to a
lot of overwhelm, a lot offatigue, a lot of stress for
(08:58):
people that it's not just whileyou're at work, it continues on
and you really have to fight foryour own time and your own
lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, that's definitely true.
One of the things that we tryto advocate for our teachers at
our little school is to do, youknow, we really do pack the days
, of course, because that's aschool day, but we do really try
to have, you know, support ourteachers the days, of course,
because that's a school day, butwe do really try to have, you
know, support our teachers andnot taking things home or as
little as possible.
(09:31):
So we do have teachers thatwill, and you know, a little bit
, before the early start of 7,30, get themselves started and
acquainted with the day and andsome planning and then really
just leave at that end time atthree o'clock or three, you know
, slightly after three, andpeople are pretty good with that
(09:52):
and it makes a big difference.
So people aren't hanging out inthe building for endless hours
and it does actually help thatfor us it's a shared space.
So there's sometimes when wejust can't be there.
So we have to be thoughtfulabout the time that we are in
the building and cause, you know, sometimes there are those
things that when you're planningthings, you need to go and get
(10:15):
prepared and things like that,but when you actually can't be
in the space it's.
It's almost a blessing, becausethen you're forced out.
Um, you know you can't do thesame things at home, so you just
kind of have to let it go andrealize that it will be there
tomorrow.
Fine, um, and it, and it alwaysis.
(10:35):
You know, we try not to makeanything like overly a big deal.
If something's not quite right,it's fine yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I don't know if you struggle with this, but
sometimes if I'm, you know,leaving and I feel like, you
know, maybe I've hung around alittle bit longer than usual,
and then I go and see otherteachers still in the in the
building, you know, I might givethem a little like, hey, it's
five, it's 5, 30, let's 5.30,let's go Everyone.
You know time to go, but I dofeel like you know, these are
(11:08):
adults, they have their own, youknow decision-making faculties
and you know, maybe they don'tneed me to come and scoot them
out of the building.
How do you fall with that sortof thing?
Do you try and encourage peopleto go home or do you leave them
to their own devices?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, most people are pretty good with leaving soon
and that was just from thebeginning.
Like you don't have to staysuper long hours, like, try to
just be here.
You know 730 to three, thoseare the hours for teachers and
there's planning time and, youknow, during specials and things
(11:47):
like that.
So teachers are really goodabout using their time
efficiently at school, which isgreat.
There is one day where we'vehad to add a short after school
meeting for like for a specificpurpose, Because, because we are
a small school with a smallstaff, it was just not possible
(12:09):
to have a full team meeting witheveryone at the same time and
so we had to say, okay, we'regoing to do this on Wednesdays
for 45 minutes after school forthis specific reason, but if we
don't need to have that meeting,we won't have it.
So, like next week we don't needto have it because we finished
everything last week.
So we really wanted to knowagain try to really stick within
(12:32):
, like we're done at three, youcan stay if you need to, but you
know you don't have to.
And so I do.
I do hear, um, you know, likethe appreciation for thank you
for just saying that we don'thave to do things all the time
(12:53):
yeah because you don't, you know.
So, yeah, and I think too, withthis time of year in particular
and we've earlier in our kind ofNorth American school year
we're right at the beginning ofAugust.
I know you guys start a littlebit later, mid-september, with
your students but you know,still this time of year, with
(13:16):
you know, we're moving into thefall season and people are
starting to get the seasonal fluand bugs and things like that.
And it just makes me think abouthow, like, we've really been
pushing ourselves, like thestamina has been like super high
.
It's like we're just going andgoing and going and now people
are like, ooh, I'm starting tonot feel great, and so I always
(13:40):
wonder, like, is it possible forus to slow down a little bit at
the beginning of the year,which doesn't seem possible,
even though, like I felt likewe've been very intentional
about the things that we've beenbringing to teachers and like
the timing of things, but it'sstill so much right, because
everyone, they're students andlike we have lots of projects
(14:04):
going on and field trips andthings like that, and so people
are starting to feel thatbreakdown.
And so this is a time of yearfor sure.
And I remember just in yearspast to where it's like, okay,
how can we make sure we're stilladvocating for ourselves here,
where we are starting to notfeel well and we have the
(14:26):
teacher guilt of but then I needto have sub plans, or but oh,
because I'm okay, you know, butreally your body's telling you
to stop and but it's so hard,right like?
I'm sure you guys have the samething yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You've got people starting to get run down.
But sometimes it feels likeit's more work to take a day off
and get a sub in and do all theplans and make all the
provisions for that.
And, oh my goodness, don't youfeel the pressure when you are
at home and it's the day off tojust check your emails to make
sure that you know if Johnny'sgoing home with somebody else,
(15:08):
that the sub teacher knows whothey're going home with?
Like you're still partiallydialed in to school.
You're not really a hundredpercent resting.
So it is really, it is reallyimportant to to set yourself up
with as many strategies andprotocols and systems to to make
(15:28):
these things as easy aspossible, if you can yeah, and
unfortunately we don't have likea guilt off button.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I don't think teachers are built like that.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
No no, no, it is so apparent, though when we don't
feel well, it shows with ourstudents, and even the kids know
when something's not quiteright, and it isn't really, even
though it's short term, whenwe're sick, you know but it
isn't really a sustainablepractice long term either, and I
(16:04):
know again speaking ofsustainability, with schools
like there's just not enoughsubs either.
So there's that guilt on top ofthings, and but we're talking
about teacher wellness here, andso if we don't have well
teachers, then students aren'tgoing to be well either, and
it's it's unfortunate that wehave to have the guilt, but I
(16:28):
don't know.
There's like no, there's nolike easy thing here.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
There's not.
No, there's not, and I thinknot just in your day-to-day,
week-to-week, month-to-monthwellness.
I think if people are pushingthemselves to these limits, we
can only do that for so manyyears, and so if we want to keep
(16:54):
passionate caring professionalsaround in the field they can't
do that endlessly for 30, 40years.
You've got to find some sort ofbalance somewhere along the way
, because your body literallycan't push itself and remain
sick that long without somepretty dire things happening to
(17:16):
you.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
So sharing any tricks or tips or strategies you have
to pare down and make thingseasier for yourself is going to
be really helpful to the peoplearound you, for sure I think one
of the things that is reallyhelpful and I saw it in action
this week and heard about it andread about it actually with one
(17:37):
of our teachers, she got somegood structures in place for her
students.
Having some of those structuresreally helped release some of
the pressure off of her and someof the things that she was
feeling.
And you know, this is like oneof the things that we talk about
(18:00):
a lot, especially when we'retalking about like learner
agency and like when does theteacher let go of some of that
control and we can take off someof the stress of, like all of
the things that we're doing forstudents when they can actually
do them for themselves?
Right, we want our students todo the doing and the thinking
(18:20):
and then we can watch, observeand facilitate.
That takes up a lot of stressfrom a teacher, right.
That takes up a lot of stressfrom a teacher, right.
So you're talking less and youget to listen more and observe
more, and I think that's a huge,it's a huge lift off of the
teacher when you can actuallystep back from that and just
(18:43):
kind of enjoy the fruits of yourlabor.
I feel like where you're justwatching your students in action
.
You're like yes, we're gettingto this point where I'm not
putting in so much energy here.
That is a huge step, and if wecan get more teachers on board
with that type of thing too,that's a huge piece of
(19:06):
sustainability in education,right?
Sometimes we just like talk toomuch, we teach too much, we're
giving too much to the students,so we need to step back, which
is hard because, like a lot ofus, are control people.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I don't know what you're talking about, but you
said, yes, that's so true thoughYou're so on the money with
that, because but that's so truethough You're so on the money
with that because, you know, ifwe see our roles as I have to be
prepared for everything and Iam the decision maker and I am
controlling where this lesson,this learning, is going, and I
(19:40):
am the transmitter ofinformation as well as the giver
of all feedback then, yeah,that's a lot to be doing.
And what's the student's role?
Are they just passivelyreceiving all of these things
that we're doing to them?
You know, we want it to be anequal sharing of the education
experience, really, don't we?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
We do, yeah, and I feel like when teachers have
success with handing over thatbaton kind of to their students,
that's something we really haveto celebrate and invite other
teachers in to see, because itis really a hard process, it's a
hard thing to let go of, butit's so amazing to watch
(20:22):
students in action when you'relike, oh yeah, that hard work
that I did at the beginning isreally paying off now.
And not just I, I mean, butlike, oh yeah, that hard work
that I did at the beginning isreally paying off now.
And not just I, I mean, butlike you know, with them and
that is I mean.
Isn't that the point of school?
Right, we're preparing studentsfor life.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Absolutely.
I hope so.
I hope that's what we're doing.
That's been my plan anyway.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Right, mine too.
And yeah, I think you know theself-advocacy piece for teachers
is is a tough one because, likewe were talking about before,
you feel bad for taking a daywhen you're not well but no one
(21:12):
else is going to tell you to dowhat's best for you, or you, you
might, someone might write likeyou're not well, you should
stay home, but you're the onethat has to take the action.
Like it's one thing to thinkand feel even I don't feel great
, I should stay home, orwhatever it is.
(21:32):
You know, I'm just kind ofsticking with that same example,
but also like you have to do ityou know, and like we tell
parents okay, it's sick, sickyseason, blues are happening,
stuff's going on, keep your kidsat home if their nose is
dripping or they're coughing.
Happening stuff's going on,keep your kids at home if their
nose is dripping or they'recoughing.
But then if we come in withthose things, what message are
(21:52):
we saying sending?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
yeah, and and we strangely think we're showing
some sort of like aspirationalstrength or something that like
look at me, I can power throughthis situation.
Rather than modeling what weactually want to see from the
families of like, let's protectthe community.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yes, exactly, and we know that teachers are
superheroes anyway.
Right, we know that we canpower through these things, but
it's not healthy and sustainableat all through these things,
but it's not healthy andsustainable at all.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
No, you know, I had a great reminder from one of my
colleagues just recently.
We were tackling this issuethat really wasn't shouldn't
have been on our shoulders,really, but we were trying to
tackle it anyway.
And at one point she emailed meand she's like look, here are
(22:56):
some resources, but I'm out.
Like this is, I've got to drawa line.
I don't really have thebandwidth to deal with this
right now.
So over to you and I went.
You know what, I'm going to passthis along as well.
You've reminded me that Ishouldn't be taking on things
that are not in my remit andthey're not in your remit.
So thank you for the reminder.
Good on you.
I really endorse your choiceshere and I'm going to do the
same, and so I forwarded italong to the the people that it
(23:19):
should have been dealt with inthe first place, and I think you
know in that sort of way thatwe can remind ourselves and each
other, remember what we need tobe doing, what our priorities
are, and if it's not one of yourpriorities in your role, then
pass it on.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great.
Yeah, it's hard to do, hard todo.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It is hard to do, it is, but I think it is helpful
when we can and you know,encourage each other when it
does happen.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you for thisconversation, Christine.
It's always enlightening totalk to you.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
It is good, it is good to chat.
Do you have any pare-downpointers for us today?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I do.
I'd say that my pare-downpointer for today's episode is
to actually more self-advocating.
So, you know, really live up tonot only being aware that
you're doing a lot of thingsright and you know that, or like
(24:27):
understand that you have topare down some things in order
to to really focus on priorities.
But it's one thing to think itand it's another thing to do it.
Taking action on like justsaying no or saying I'm sick at
home, or I'm going to hand overthat responsibility to my
(24:47):
students because I know theyhave the capability, and I'm
going to hand over thatresponsibility to my students
because I know they have thecapability and I'm going to step
back.
So taking actions on thosepieces so that you can be better
in your role, you can haveclarity in your thinking,
because there's less in your ownmind cluttering that space and
just feeling that bit of stressaround carrying around things
(25:10):
that you don't need to, becausethere are other people to
support you in the process,absolutely.
I think an additional pare downpointer.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, I think I've got a few things in my mind, but
I think the one that I'm goingto talk about is being mindful
of what you're talking aboutwith your colleagues.
So when we're being mindful ofwhat we're talking about with
our colleagues, we really havean opportunity to keep that
(25:44):
focus on that work-life balance,that focus on that work-life
balance.
So if all of our discussionwith our colleagues when we're
getting a cup of coffee orgetting lunch, is all about
what's happening in ourclassroom, what's happening
after school, before school,that email you got from that
parent when you got to schoolthis morning, that sort of thing
, we're re-inhabiting this worldof like this is everything.
(26:06):
This is everything all the time.
But if you make that consciousdecision to say you got any
plans this weekend, what did youdo last weekend?
Got anything going on tonight?
What show are you watching?
What book are you reading, andkeep the conversation around the
rest of you, the rest of yourlife and what you've got going
on, because that is so importantin who you are as a person, I
(26:30):
think you know you're reallytrying to inhabit that idea of
this is your job and, yes,you're passionate, but this is
your job and there is so muchmore to you and I value the rest
of you as well, and it's alsoprobably really healthy for us
to have that mental break awayfrom work, because it's it's
very hard, um, when you're in aschool campus to get a break
(26:52):
from it, because constantreminders all around you all the
time.
So it's if we can do that foreach other and and provide that
little mini break for each other, I think that's going to be
really helpful yeah, I love that, very true.
Thank you, christine thank youLove that, very true.
Thank you, christine.
Thank you, tammy, till nexttime.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Plan Z Professional
(27:15):
Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiewski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of
the podcast.
It's Tammy and myself today.
How are you going, Tammy?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am doing well.
Thank you very much, Christine.
How about you?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I am good, I'm excited to share our second most
popular episode of the podcast.
Today we are sharing a revisitof episode 20, which was an
episode just with you and I,tammy, about embracing
minimalism and self-advocacy.
(01:08):
What do you think grabbedeveryone's attention about that
title?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, it's interesting because I was kind
of surprised by this one, butthen maybe I shouldn't be,
because maybe it's the wordsself-advocacy, which we don't
often do as educators.
Honestly, I think that we, right, we tend to just kind of keep
(01:37):
going and going and going andjust doing things for other
people, but in this episode wetalk about some specific things
to help advocate for ourselvesand not like hard things
honestly.
Well, I guess they can feel hard, Like if we talk about
protecting our time at home, forexample, that can feel hard
(01:59):
because you can, you know, youmight sit down with your laptop
and you're going to look atsomething that's like a personal
thing or whatever, and then youget drawn into oh, let me just
look at what's coming up nextweek at school, and so that can
be one of those habits that youknow, we just don't really think
anything about it and then youknow an hour later like, oh, my
(02:22):
God, I wasn't even going to bedo this right now.
I was actually going to likeplan my trip to wherever I got
sidetracked by work, and so wehave to be really careful about
that time protection at home andI think you know, sometimes
just talking about those thingsto protect ourselves is really
(02:43):
important, and we don't do themvery well sometimes.
This is true.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
This is very true and I think another interesting
thing that came up in thisparticular episode that I feel
like we're starting to see apattern emerging now when we're
talking to people about how tobe more of a minimalist, how to
strategize and do less, and it'sthat theme of we've got to get
(03:10):
the students more involved.
It can't just be us, as theteacher, making all the
decisions, doing all the work,all the thinking, all the
talking.
So that has come up with quitea few of our guests now and it
comes up again in this episodeas well.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, I think that we really under not
underappreciate, underestimatewhat students can do themselves
because we spend so much timethinking about how can we
scaffold the learning or how canI make this easier for them,
scaffold the learning or how canI make this easier for them.
But, honestly, we're stealingproductive learning time and
(03:48):
productive struggle fromstudents when we do that and it
makes more work for us.
So this is something that I'vebeen talking a lot with teachers
about recently just what arethe ways that you are making
sure that the opportunities areopen for students to do the
things that they can do?
Even when you think that theycan't, they will surprise you
(04:12):
and that is from you know skillsor skills and routines, but
also sometimes content, right?
So, like, why spend timeteaching something that your
students already know?
Like you're just wasting yourtime and it's it's a comfort
(04:32):
thing for sure, cause we're like, well, I'm just following my
plan and I'm, you know, movingalong, but you're doing a
disservice to yourself later onwhen you're like, oh, I should
have cut that short, cause Ineed this time now later for
this other thing that theyaren't really getting and I know
that's off a little bit fromstudent agency.
But it's like just thinkingabout the time use of.
You know how we're using thetime in the classroom and we can
(04:53):
save a lot of time when we letkids take ownership more and
realize that they can do morethan we realize sometimes, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Absolutely, and I think, as always, that important
piece when it comes toself-advocacy is just reminding
ourselves and each other to havethese conversations, to talk
about what we're doing, to tryand manage the workload and have
that work-life balance and be alittle bit more intentional in
(05:24):
what we're doing at school.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I agree, and the accountability partners or, um,
whoever you know your, yourbuddies at school and outside of
work, are the people that youneed to help carry you through,
sometimes to give you thatreminder like hey, you've been
doing this for a long time,you've been like in your, in
(05:49):
your hole of planning, where areyou?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
We haven't seen you all day.
Come out and see some people.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Right and again, like time just flies when you're
having fun or not.
So just yeah, remembering tojust prioritize yourself,
because if you don't, no oneelse will and you're needed,
right, and that's like not aguilt thing, it's just like
(06:18):
that's the role you're in andpeople need you and they need
you well, absolutely For sure inand people need you and they
need you well, absolutely forsure.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So, having said all of that, we hope you enjoy
re-listening to episode 20,embracing Minimalism and
Self-Advocacy.
Hi everybody, and welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'm here with Tammy today.
How are you, tammy?
I'm pretty good, christine.
I don't have any realcomplaints, which is sometimes
unusual, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah, pretty good, pretty good.
We are talking about advocatingfor minimalism today and
hopefully inspiring othersaround us with some aims and
aspirations in minimalism.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yes, yes, because it can feel hard, as we've talked
about you know a few times inour previous episodes last
season, just how much we have todo, um, just how how much we
have to do.
(07:30):
But we really do need toadvocate for the, not only the
idea but the actions that we cantake for just getting a little
bit simpler, because things arejust overly complicated
sometimes and we lose sight ofwhat it is, that what we're
doing in our roles and whatwe're doing in our schools, and
it feels it's just too much.
And so if we can advocate fortearing down, refocusing on our
(07:55):
priorities, it's going to bereally beneficial to not only
the educators in various rolesin schools, for students,
because then they know that youknow we're not floundering
around because of other thingswe can.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
actually, you know, they know that they're the focus
rather than sometimes, you knowteachers can drop the stress on
the students without reallymeaning to because of you know
that's what stress does exactly,and I think teaching is one of
those professions where not onlyis it very busy, very hectic,
(08:35):
whilst you're actually at work,but it's very common and
presumed normal to work in theevenings and work on weekends
and work in your vacation time,and I know that that adds to a
lot of overwhelm, a lot offatigue, a lot of stress for
(08:58):
people that it's not just whileyou're at work, it continues on
and you really have to fight foryour own time and your own
lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, that's definitely true.
One of the things that we tryto advocate for our teachers at
our little school is to do, youknow, we really do pack the days
, of course, because that's aschool day, but we do really try
to have, you know, support ourteachers the days, of course,
because that's a school day, butwe do really try to have, you
know, support our teachers andnot taking things home or as
little as possible.
(09:31):
So we do have teachers thatwill, and you know, a little bit
, before the early start of 7,30, get themselves started and
acquainted with the day and andsome planning and then really
just leave at that end time atthree o'clock or three, you know
, slightly after three, andpeople are pretty good with that
(09:52):
and it makes a big difference.
So people aren't hanging out inthe building for endless hours
and it does actually help thatfor us it's a shared space.
So there's sometimes when wejust can't be there.
So we have to be thoughtfulabout the time that we are in
the building and cause, you know, sometimes there are those
things that when you're planningthings, you need to go and get
(10:15):
prepared and things like that,but when you actually can't be
in the space it's.
It's almost a blessing, becausethen you're forced out.
Um, you know you can't do thesame things at home, so you just
kind of have to let it go andrealize that it will be there
tomorrow.
Fine, um, and it, and it alwaysis.
(10:35):
You know, we try not to makeanything like overly a big deal.
If something's not quite right,it's fine yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I don't know if you struggle with this, but
sometimes if I'm, you know,leaving and I feel like, you
know, maybe I've hung around alittle bit longer than usual,
and then I go and see otherteachers still in the in the
building, you know, I might givethem a little like, hey, it's
five, it's 5, 30, let's 5.30,let's go Everyone.
You know time to go, but I dofeel like you know, these are
(11:08):
adults, they have their own, youknow decision-making faculties
and you know, maybe they don'tneed me to come and scoot them
out of the building.
How do you fall with that sortof thing?
Do you try and encourage peopleto go home or do you leave them
to their own devices?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, most people are pretty good with leaving soon
and that was just from thebeginning.
Like you don't have to staysuper long hours, like, try to
just be here.
You know 730 to three, thoseare the hours for teachers and
there's planning time and, youknow, during specials and things
(11:47):
like that.
So teachers are really goodabout using their time
efficiently at school, which isgreat.
There is one day where we'vehad to add a short after school
meeting for like for a specificpurpose, Because, because we are
a small school with a smallstaff, it was just not possible
(12:09):
to have a full team meeting witheveryone at the same time and
so we had to say, okay, we'regoing to do this on Wednesdays
for 45 minutes after school forthis specific reason, but if we
don't need to have that meeting,we won't have it.
So, like next week we don't needto have it because we finished
everything last week.
So we really wanted to knowagain try to really stick within
(12:32):
, like we're done at three, youcan stay if you need to, but you
know you don't have to.
And so I do.
I do hear, um, you know, likethe appreciation for thank you
for just saying that we don'thave to do things all the time
(12:53):
yeah because you don't, you know.
So, yeah, and I think too, withthis time of year in particular
and we've earlier in our kind ofNorth American school year
we're right at the beginning ofAugust.
I know you guys start a littlebit later, mid-september, with
your students but you know,still this time of year, with
(13:16):
you know, we're moving into thefall season and people are
starting to get the seasonal fluand bugs and things like that.
And it just makes me think abouthow, like, we've really been
pushing ourselves, like thestamina has been like super high
.
It's like we're just going andgoing and going and now people
are like, ooh, I'm starting tonot feel great, and so I always
(13:40):
wonder, like, is it possible forus to slow down a little bit at
the beginning of the year,which doesn't seem possible,
even though, like I felt likewe've been very intentional
about the things that we've beenbringing to teachers and like
the timing of things, but it'sstill so much right, because
everyone, they're students andlike we have lots of projects
(14:04):
going on and field trips andthings like that, and so people
are starting to feel thatbreakdown.
And so this is a time of yearfor sure.
And I remember just in yearspast to where it's like, okay,
how can we make sure we're stilladvocating for ourselves here,
where we are starting to notfeel well and we have the
(14:26):
teacher guilt of but then I needto have sub plans, or but oh,
because I'm okay, you know, butreally your body's telling you
to stop and but it's so hard,right like?
I'm sure you guys have the samething yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You've got people starting to get run down.
But sometimes it feels likeit's more work to take a day off
and get a sub in and do all theplans and make all the
provisions for that.
And, oh my goodness, don't youfeel the pressure when you are
at home and it's the day off tojust check your emails to make
sure that you know if Johnny'sgoing home with somebody else,
(15:08):
that the sub teacher knows whothey're going home with?
Like you're still partiallydialed in to school.
You're not really a hundredpercent resting.
So it is really, it is reallyimportant to to set yourself up
with as many strategies andprotocols and systems to to make
(15:28):
these things as easy aspossible, if you can yeah, and
unfortunately we don't have likea guilt off button.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I don't think teachers are built like that.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
No no, no, it is so apparent, though when we don't
feel well, it shows with ourstudents, and even the kids know
when something's not quiteright, and it isn't really, even
though it's short term, whenwe're sick, you know but it
isn't really a sustainablepractice long term either, and I
(16:04):
know again speaking ofsustainability, with schools
like there's just not enoughsubs either.
So there's that guilt on top ofthings, and but we're talking
about teacher wellness here, andso if we don't have well
teachers, then students aren'tgoing to be well either, and
it's it's unfortunate that wehave to have the guilt, but I
(16:28):
don't know.
There's like no, there's nolike easy thing here.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
There's not.
No, there's not, and I thinknot just in your day-to-day,
week-to-week, month-to-monthwellness.
I think if people are pushingthemselves to these limits, we
can only do that for so manyyears, and so if we want to keep
(16:54):
passionate caring professionalsaround in the field they can't
do that endlessly for 30, 40years.
You've got to find some sort ofbalance somewhere along the way
, because your body literallycan't push itself and remain
sick that long without somepretty dire things happening to
(17:16):
you.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
So sharing any tricks or tips or strategies you have
to pare down and make thingseasier for yourself is going to
be really helpful to the peoplearound you, for sure I think one
of the things that is reallyhelpful and I saw it in action
this week and heard about it andread about it actually with one
(17:37):
of our teachers, she got somegood structures in place for her
students.
Having some of those structuresreally helped release some of
the pressure off of her and someof the things that she was
feeling.
And you know, this is like oneof the things that we talk about
(18:00):
a lot, especially when we'retalking about like learner
agency and like when does theteacher let go of some of that
control and we can take off someof the stress of, like all of
the things that we're doing forstudents when they can actually
do them for themselves?
Right, we want our students todo the doing and the thinking
(18:20):
and then we can watch, observeand facilitate.
That takes up a lot of stressfrom a teacher, right.
That takes up a lot of stressfrom a teacher, right.
So you're talking less and youget to listen more and observe
more, and I think that's a huge,it's a huge lift off of the
teacher when you can actuallystep back from that and just
(18:43):
kind of enjoy the fruits of yourlabor.
I feel like where you're justwatching your students in action
.
You're like yes, we're gettingto this point where I'm not
putting in so much energy here.
That is a huge step, and if wecan get more teachers on board
with that type of thing too,that's a huge piece of
(19:06):
sustainability in education,right?
Sometimes we just like talk toomuch, we teach too much, we're
giving too much to the students,so we need to step back, which
is hard because, like a lot ofus, are control people.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I don't know what you're talking about, but you
said, yes, that's so true thoughYou're so on the money with
that, because but that's so truethough You're so on the money
with that because, you know, ifwe see our roles as I have to be
prepared for everything and Iam the decision maker and I am
controlling where this lesson,this learning, is going, and I
(19:40):
am the transmitter ofinformation as well as the giver
of all feedback then, yeah,that's a lot to be doing.
And what's the student's role?
Are they just passivelyreceiving all of these things
that we're doing to them?
You know, we want it to be anequal sharing of the education
experience, really, don't we?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
We do, yeah, and I feel like when teachers have
success with handing over thatbaton kind of to their students,
that's something we really haveto celebrate and invite other
teachers in to see, because itis really a hard process, it's a
hard thing to let go of, butit's so amazing to watch
(20:22):
students in action when you'relike, oh yeah, that hard work
that I did at the beginning isreally paying off now.
And not just I, I mean, butlike, oh yeah, that hard work
that I did at the beginning isreally paying off now.
And not just I, I mean, butlike you know, with them and
that is I mean.
Isn't that the point of school?
Right, we're preparing studentsfor life.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Absolutely.
I hope so.
I hope that's what we're doing.
That's been my plan anyway.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Right, mine too.
And yeah, I think you know theself-advocacy piece for teachers
is is a tough one because, likewe were talking about before,
you feel bad for taking a daywhen you're not well but no one
(21:12):
else is going to tell you to dowhat's best for you, or you, you
might, someone might write likeyou're not well, you should
stay home, but you're the onethat has to take the action.
Like it's one thing to thinkand feel even I don't feel great
, I should stay home, orwhatever it is.
(21:32):
You know, I'm just kind ofsticking with that same example,
but also like you have to do ityou know, and like we tell
parents okay, it's sick, sickyseason, blues are happening,
stuff's going on, keep your kidsat home if their nose is
dripping or they're coughing.
Happening stuff's going on,keep your kids at home if their
nose is dripping or they'recoughing.
But then if we come in withthose things, what message are
(21:52):
we saying sending?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
yeah, and and we strangely think we're showing
some sort of like aspirationalstrength or something that like
look at me, I can power throughthis situation.
Rather than modeling what weactually want to see from the
families of like, let's protectthe community.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yes, exactly, and we know that teachers are
superheroes anyway.
Right, we know that we canpower through these things, but
it's not healthy and sustainableat all through these things,
but it's not healthy andsustainable at all.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
No, you know, I had a great reminder from one of my
colleagues just recently.
We were tackling this issuethat really wasn't shouldn't
have been on our shoulders,really, but we were trying to
tackle it anyway.
And at one point she emailed meand she's like look, here are
(22:56):
some resources, but I'm out.
Like this is, I've got to drawa line.
I don't really have thebandwidth to deal with this
right now.
So over to you and I went.
You know what, I'm going to passthis along as well.
You've reminded me that Ishouldn't be taking on things
that are not in my remit andthey're not in your remit.
So thank you for the reminder.
Good on you.
I really endorse your choiceshere and I'm going to do the
same, and so I forwarded italong to the the people that it
(23:19):
should have been dealt with inthe first place, and I think you
know in that sort of way thatwe can remind ourselves and each
other, remember what we need tobe doing, what our priorities
are, and if it's not one of yourpriorities in your role, then
pass it on.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great.
Yeah, it's hard to do, hard todo.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It is hard to do, it is, but I think it is helpful
when we can and you know,encourage each other when it
does happen.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you for thisconversation, Christine.
It's always enlightening totalk to you.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
It is good, it is good to chat.
Do you have any pare-downpointers for us today?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I do.
I'd say that my pare-downpointer for today's episode is
to actually more self-advocating.
So, you know, really live up tonot only being aware that
you're doing a lot of thingsright and you know that, or like
(24:27):
understand that you have topare down some things in order
to to really focus on priorities.
But it's one thing to think itand it's another thing to do it.
Taking action on like justsaying no or saying I'm sick at
home, or I'm going to hand overthat responsibility to my
(24:47):
students because I know theyhave the capability, and I'm
going to hand over thatresponsibility to my students
because I know they have thecapability and I'm going to step
back.
So taking actions on thosepieces so that you can be better
in your role, you can haveclarity in your thinking,
because there's less in your ownmind cluttering that space and
just feeling that bit of stressaround carrying around things
(25:10):
that you don't need to, becausethere are other people to
support you in the process,absolutely.
I think an additional pare downpointer.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, I think I've got a few things in my mind, but
I think the one that I'm goingto talk about is being mindful
of what you're talking aboutwith your colleagues.
So when we're being mindful ofwhat we're talking about with
our colleagues, we really havean opportunity to keep that
(25:44):
focus on that work-life balance,that focus on that work-life
balance.
So if all of our discussionwith our colleagues when we're
getting a cup of coffee orgetting lunch, is all about
what's happening in ourclassroom, what's happening
after school, before school,that email you got from that
parent when you got to schoolthis morning, that sort of thing
, we're re-inhabiting this worldof like this is everything.
(26:06):
This is everything all the time.
But if you make that consciousdecision to say you got any
plans this weekend, what did youdo last weekend?
Got anything going on tonight?
What show are you watching?
What book are you reading, andkeep the conversation around the
rest of you, the rest of yourlife and what you've got going
on, because that is so importantin who you are as a person, I
(26:30):
think you know you're reallytrying to inhabit that idea of
this is your job and, yes,you're passionate, but this is
your job and there is so muchmore to you and I value the rest
of you as well, and it's alsoprobably really healthy for us
to have that mental break awayfrom work, because it's it's
very hard, um, when you're in aschool campus to get a break
(26:52):
from it, because constantreminders all around you all the
time.
So it's if we can do that foreach other and and provide that
little mini break for each other, I think that's going to be
really helpful yeah, I love that, very true.
Thank you, christine thank youLove that, very true.
Thank you, christine.
Thank you, tammy, till nexttime.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Plan Z Professional
(27:15):
Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
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