March 4, 2025 • 26 mins
Join us for a compelling journey into the art of curriculum development with our brilliant guest, Jill Cross, a National Board Certified Teacher and seasoned curriculum director. Jill shares her diverse experiences across various educational settings, from small Catholic schools to innovative museum schools, and her current role at an independent Jewish day school in Memphis, Tennessee. Learn how she deftly balances teachers' passions with the ever-evolving needs of students and standards, and discover invaluable strategies for effective curriculum changes. Through Jill's stories, we highlight the power of building strong relationships and fostering open communication with faculty to drive successful educational outcomes.
The episode also navigates the complexities of efficient classroom management and organization. We discuss personalized teacher interactions, highlighting the use of digital tools like OneDrive and digital calendars to streamline tasks. From maintaining a daily top-three task list to the art of chunking time for larger projects, we explore practical techniques to enhance productivity. Jill emphasizes the importance of blending structured plans with spontaneous demands, all while nurturing a supportive culture through informal classroom visits. Tune in for practical insights and strategies that will transform how you approach time management and school organization.
Find Jill on social media @JCrossEdu or at https://jill4learning.com/
Jill Cross is a National Board-Certified teacher and ASCD Emerging Leader with 20 years of experience in public, charter, and independent schools. Jill has coordinated curriculum development in public and private schools and frequently presents across the country on teacher leadership, object-based learning, personalized professional learning, and curriculum writing. Jill is a Colonial Williamsburg Master Teacher and the co-author of Living History in the Classroom: Performance and Pedagogy. Her passion is supporting teachers in planting seeds of change that have the capacity to transform education. Jill is the Director of Curriculum & Instruction at Bornblum Jewish Community School in Tennessee.
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services, forward-thinking educator support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
On this week's episode, our guest is Jill Cross
.
She speaks with us aboutcurriculum development and lots
of factors to consider dependingon what context you are in
development and lots of factorsto consider depending on what
context you are in.
Jill Cross is a National BoardCertified Teacher and ASCD
Emerging Leader with 20 years ofexperience in public, charter
and independent schools.
Jill has conducted curriculumdevelopment in public and
(00:56):
private schools and frequentlypresents across the country on
teacher leadership, object-basedlearning, personalised
professional and curriculumwriting.
Jill is a Colonial WilliamsburgMaster Teacher and the
co-author of Living History inthe Classroom Performance and
Pedagogy.
Her passion is supportingteachers in planting seeds of
change that have the capacity totransform education.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Jill is the Director of Curriculum and Instruction at
Born Bloom Jewish CommunitySchool in Tennessee.
Hello everyone and welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator podcast.
Today we are interviewing JillCross, who is the Curriculum
Director at a school in Memphis.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Welcome to the show, Jill Hi, thank you for having me
.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I'm excited to talk to y'all.
Thank you, how are you today,christine?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I am very well.
I'm excited to have a chat withanother curriculum person and
get into good discussion.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, me too.
So, jill, in your role you'vegot a lot to manage.
But before we get to all ofthat because it's a big job can
you just give us a little bit ofbackground of how you got into
the role around?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
curriculum, actually never thought I would be in
education and ended up doing it.
I thought as a way to pay forgrad school and started
part-time teaching art anddiscovered I kind of liked it
and so I started teaching in.
(02:38):
And actually I started teachingin a small Catholic school in
Florida.
And I have no educationbackground, my degree is not in
education.
I had no idea what I was doing.
I actually wrote at one pointan apology letter on my blog to
my first year students becauseall the things that we don't
know when we start right.
And then I ended up going topublic school and I was there
(03:00):
for a long time and I was at aK-5.
I was a classroom teacher but Iwas serving as a magnet time
and I was at a K-5.
I was a classroom teacher but Iwas serving as a magnet lead.
So we had a big magnet programin the district where I worked
and I had a magnet programcalled academic enrichment that
I just could not sell because itwas like standards based
instruction, which really wasn'tnew and innovative in like 2007
(03:21):
, you know.
So I heard about museum schoolsat a magnet meeting and my
background is in humanities andthe arts and so I immediately
was like we're doing that?
And so I went to the district,I convinced them to include us
in a DOE grant for that.
We were awarded $1.3 millionover four years and I shifted
(03:44):
into a role as curriculumspecialist.
So I built the program from theground up, working on an
integrated museum kind of well,I call it.
Museum learning is sort of whatI call it.
And so we were partnered witheight local cultural
institutions and the Universityof North Florida College of Art
and Design, and it was in thatrole that I kind of learned
everything about how to workwith people with curriculum and
(04:10):
how to kind of manage the.
You know teachers are verymarried to what they do and so
how to negotiate that and be acheerleader and kind of how to
give gentle nudges when it comesto curriculum.
And so after that I ended up youknow that was a grant funded
position so I shifted intoindependent schools and I found
(04:31):
I really liked independentschools because we have a lot of
freedom in our curriculum.
And so I did this at anotherschool 612.
And now I am here, I wanted toget back towards the South.
And now I am here, I wanted toget back towards the South.
I'm at a great K-8 independentJewish day school, so our
(04:54):
challenge is that we teach 100%of what we call general studies
curriculum in two-thirds of thetime, because our students spend
a third of the day in Jewishstudies.
So all of the work that I didat the museum school and
everywhere else on integrationhas become super important, and
all of the curriculum work thatI've done has been, you know,
distilling the curriculum downto essential has been super
important in this role.
So, yeah, so that's how I endedup here in Memphis, tennessee.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
That is quite the journey, jill.
I really like hearing aboutthat you were talking there
about.
You know about teachers beingmarried to their work, and I
think that's something we comeacross all the time is that it
really becomes a part of ouridentity and how we know
ourselves as an educator.
So how does that fit in withcurriculum, especially when
(05:42):
there's curriculum changes?
If you're messing with people'scurriculum changes, if you're
like messing with people'sidentity.
How have you found thatexperience?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, so it's it.
That is always a challenge, andtrying to find the balance of
allowing people to have theirpassions and to teach in in the
way that they feel reallypassionate about, because, you
know, that's also important justfor faculty retention and also
so to kind of take that alongwith, like, okay, here's what
(06:12):
our graduates need to be able todo, you know, or here's what
our fourth graders need to havemastered by the end of this year
, and so that's always aninteresting balancing act For us
.
I think the you know I am wegive a lot of freedom and
autonomy with our faculty, andso we it's a lot of relationship
(06:34):
building is that's a big, hugechunk of it.
You know a lot.
I'm in a small school, luckily,and so there's a lot of
conversation happening, informalconversations, and I always
kind of tell our teachers like,even if you're in the faculty
workroom talking to somebodyabout curriculum or talking to
someone about redoing anassessment or watching a TED
(06:57):
talk to get content, backgroundknowledge, all that's PD and we
need to look at it like that.
And so, yeah, it's a lot ofrelationship building.
It's a lot of finding.
There's a lot of likepsychology in it too, so it's
like finding what it is that'sgoing to be the thing that's
(07:18):
going to push someone to thinkdifferently about the curriculum
.
You know, one thing I also runinto all the time is teachers
will say my curriculum, I haveto cover this in my curriculum,
right, and I hear that a lot,and to which I want to say it's
the school's curriculum, youknow, and so that I think,
really speaks to like how peoplethey have internalized it.
(07:40):
You know so much.
So, yeah, it's a challenge.
I enjoy it because it's likedifferent every day.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It's just so interesting to hear, um, yeah,
how, how teachers really do getattached to their, to the
curriculum, which, I mean, saysa lot about a teacher as a
person.
Then, right, because you knowthat they really want to know it
, they want to teach it well.
Because you know that theyreally want to know it, they
want to teach it well.
(08:07):
Whether they know how to isanother thing, so there's that
piece to it as well.
So what do you find?
What do you find Because youmentioned kind of some of the
challenge there what is like thehardest part of get kind of
like getting teachers to likestep back and look at the bigger
picture of it?
Maybe like, how do you navigatethat?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
yeah, yeah, and that is hard right, because, you know
, I think one thing I enjoyedabout being a classroom teacher
was I would go in my room andshut the door and I could do my
thing right.
Um, and I don't think I reallyunderstood until I moved into a
curriculum or role, like, oh,there's a whole ecosystem that
is outside of this right, andhow everything works together,
(08:51):
and so I think for us we reallypush peer observation here and
so the you know, I reallybelieve that visiting classrooms
is like another great form ofPD, right, and so the more that
we can get our teachers intoother spaces and other
classrooms and see what'shappening as far as the
(09:12):
curriculum expectations go, orstudent behavior, or you know
what is this teacher doingthat's really working for this
or that, the better it.
You know it helps us to helpthem see the big picture.
We also kind of talk to themabout and this is something that
our advancement directorstarted doing is talking to our
(09:32):
teachers about how we're sort ofthe air traffic controllers in
our school and the teachers arekind of the pilots, and so, you
know, trying to figure out howwe can help teachers to shift to
sort of think in that way.
That is something that we workon a lot.
We also open up all of ourfaculty meetings in a teacher's
(09:55):
classroom and we ask the teacherto share something from their
lesson, either a reallyinteresting lesson resource or
like why is the the space theway that it is?
So our middle school teachersare going down to the
kindergarten classroom andthey're sitting in the
kindergarten chairs at the startof our faculty meetings before
we move into other things.
So that also has been reallyhelpful have you?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
have you found that you can use the same sorts of
strategies to build thattrusting relationship between
peers and with the teachers andyourself at all of your
different locations that you'veworked in, because you've been
in a similar role in differentplaces?
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, it's different everywhere that I go.
So it really is differenteverywhere that I go.
Yeah, I work with a reallygreat, flexible faculty here,
but the strategies some of themare the same.
You know, kind of the gentlenudges that I still do, or being
a cheerleader, making sure thatyou know I leave little notes
(10:59):
in boxes from time to time, likethank you, even for simple
little.
You know you filled out a PDform.
Thank you for being soconscientious to fill this out
because it helps me do my jobright.
That's always a strategy thatis helpful.
But you know, it's really justlike a classroom and every,
every interaction I have withteachers has to be so
(11:22):
individualized.
And that goes back to thatgetting to know them and getting
to understand like what makesthem tick and what their
passions are.
I wish I could say there waslike a really great strategy
that would work across allcontexts, but I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I found that yet across all contexts, but I don't
know that I've found that yet.
Yeah, it's a work in progressfor sure, you know, because
you're navigating so many piecesto a big puzzle.
So my question is kind ofrelated to that.
So, even though you don't have,like maybe the answer, but what
are some structures or systemsthat you do have in place to be
(12:00):
able to like effectively andefficiently visit classrooms and
talk with people and thingslike that?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, so I a lot of.
I've really shifted.
The last time I switched rolesI got rid of all of my paper
files when I moved and it waspainful, um, because I had like
years of paper files.
But I have really found that Ikind of live and breathe off my
(12:31):
digital resources now and myOneDrive folders and my digital
calendar and all of all of thosethings kind of you know, if
it's not on my calendar, like itjust doesn't really exist in my
world at the moment now, and soI'm really good about
calendaring.
I also will you know, I used touse a full focus planner and I
(12:54):
found it wasn't great for me fornote taking.
But what I did take away fromthat was the kind of idea of the
top three.
So in that you know you haveyour to-do list and picking out
your top three for the day andso and I find a lot of power in
like writing that down andchecking it off or crossing it
off, and so I do that kind ofevery day I revisit that and
(13:15):
figure out what my top three aregoing to be for the day.
The other thing I do is I kindof look at, I don't have a grand
plan for how I'm observingteachers, because we're kind of
small and I'm like all aroundall the time.
But what I do do is I kind oflook at the day and the schedule
and I make a list, just on apost-it note, of classes I plan
to visit that day and the timeswhen I know things are happening
(13:37):
, and I stick it in my pocketand even if I, you know, because
we do a lot of informalobservations, I'll just pop in
for just a few minutes.
That has helped me a ton, justyou know, and some days I don't
get to it right, and but then Ihave other days where I'll have
a list of like six people I wantto visit that day, you know,
(13:59):
and so that is super helpful.
I also kind of chunk my time.
So if, because I do work on alot of kind of bigger
initiatives and longer termprojects that I obviously can't
finish in a day or a week, andso I will kind of calendar and
chunk my time to work on that,so if you know, for instance,
(14:21):
like our capstone project, itrequires some work from me, and
so I make sure to kind of putthat in my calendar for, you
know, even an hour.
The other thing that I findsuper helpful is I have really
short, specific meetings withteachers with action items and a
list when I go into it andTammy knows this from our board
(14:44):
like I like to be superefficient and so I find, you
know, just having, like you know, some I will schedule 30
minutes, but a lot of times it'sjust like a 15 minute meeting
by the end of it, cause we'reyou know, I, I know how valuable
our teacher's time is.
My time is valuable too, so Itry to keep it short and
specific.
The other thing I do a lot ofis I email stuff to myself.
(15:07):
So if I have things that I needto get done or I'll, I just
email it to myself because Iknow that I will see it uh, you
know in when I'm going throughmy emails.
So that's another thing that'skind of been helpful.
We have, we all of our general,so I oversee all of our general
studies curriculum and so all ofour general studies curriculum
(15:32):
lives in OneDrive, in foldersand all of that, and we've done
I've done a lot of work to helpour teachers and also help me,
because we're trying to fit in100% of the curriculum in two
thirds of the day on integrating.
And so, you know, we adopted areading program, reading writing
(15:55):
program, and so, to help us, Irewrote and adjusted our science
and social studies, because itwas a heavy knowledge building
curriculum.
I rewrote our science andsocial studies to match it,
because it helps us get ateverything and anytime we can
integrate it.
You know it's not only good forthe kids, it's, you know it's.
(16:17):
It helps the teachers feel likethey're accomplishing more.
Yeah, so that that's a few fewof the things that that I kind
of do to keep myself moving.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, you, you mentioned lots of different
roles and responsibilities thatyou that you have at your school
, so I would love to know alittle bit about you know the
percentage of time that youspend on different tasks, like,
are you full-time in this role?
And, obviously, like I do, thetop three priorities for the day
as well, but my top threepriorities were way out the
(16:51):
window today at work.
So I know that you know we'retalking in an ideal world here,
but I'd love to hear about howyou divide up your week with all
of these different roles andresponsibilities that you have.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Let's see.
So I work on our curriculum, Iwork on teacher, teacher,
teacher coaching, I work on ourdesign thinking program.
I teach in our design thinkingprogram on Thursdays.
I teach in our design thinkingprogram on Thursdays, and then I
have leadershipresponsibilities and new
initiatives and partnering withthe advancement director on
(17:26):
things that are happening, or,you know, our grandparents day
and all you know.
So I, what I know, a lot ofpeople work differently when it
comes to this, but I kind of dothings as they come.
I still have my lists right,but if I have, you know, I try
to respond to emails kind ofquickly because I will lose them
(17:49):
, you know, in a long list ofemails later.
You know if somebody comes tome.
You know, a teacher just cameto me and asked me for something
and I had a minute while I wasin the office, so I went and
found it right.
So I try to kind of do thingsas they come, which helps me a
lot.
I guess that's the best answerto that is that I do things as
(18:10):
they come.
I don't know that I have agrand plan for dividing my week.
I kind of know what's cominglong term ahead and, like I said
that, putting it, things in thecalendar and chunking time for
certain days.
Like I know, thursdays is ourexperiential day for our
students and I know thatThursdays is going.
I don't really have a Thursdayright, I'm going to be in that
(18:34):
space with our middle schoolersall day on Thursday and so so I
just plan my week around that.
And same with our leadershipmeetings.
You know our leadershipmeetings are count.
You know we kind of say likeit's an hour, but sometimes they
go much longer and and so Ijust sort of know middle of the
day, monday, I'm not probablygoing to be getting much done
(18:58):
and so those things I can planaround and I sort of know
they're coming, but for the mostpart I'm taking things as they
go and working.
I try not to take a whole lothome with me.
I've gotten better at that Nowthat I've been in the role.
This is my fifth year, so I'mmuch better at kind of not doing
(19:18):
that and I really advocate forour teachers not to do that.
But when report cards arecoming out, which they just did,
I had to spend all weekendediting report card comments
Right, but that sort of stuff isstuff I can do at home in my
pajamas while I'm watching Britbox, and you know that kind of
thing?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, I so it's one of your tasklist things.
You mentioned having, you know,a little list is stuck in your
pocket with you know spots whereyou want to potentially stop
for the day, and so, like havingthat system of like just the
informal pop-ins, how do youbuild the trust with your staff,
(20:00):
just so they know that, like,this is what we do, this is, you
know, this is just how it'sgoing to be.
I'm just going to pop inwhenever and you know, like, how
do you establish that culture?
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, so that took a little bit of time and I think
you know, at the start of everysingle school year, you know we
have the faculty that have been,that have been here since I've
been here, they're they're sortof used used to that happening.
But we're such a small schooland our leadership are always
popping into classrooms so thatyou know that that's just sort
(20:34):
of the culture of our school.
But I still have teachers whoget get anxious right, and I'll
get a text after I've come in.
And what did you think, youknow, if I haven't sent the
email, the informal form, tothem?
But at the beginning of theyear I pop in without doing kind
of official note taking, and Ijust pop in and I send a text
(20:58):
afterwards.
That's like a positive thing,and so I do that for a little
while at the start of the year,just so that people don't feel
like it's.
You know it's never a gotcha,but some people still feel that
way, right?
So if I can make sure to pointout all the positives from the
start, it helps when I have tosay, like you know, have you
(21:19):
considered this right?
The way that our informalfeedback form works is it's all
digital and it has, like theDanielson, you know, a bunch of
indicators that we've decidedfrom Danielson that are
important to our context, andthen a box at the bottom for me
(21:40):
to write comments and whatnot.
And I always try to ask aquestion.
That is going to sort ofrequire somebody to either
respond to me or come pop by myoffice and talk to me.
So that sort of helps me tobuild that relationship and also
helps me understand betterwhat's happening.
(22:00):
If I, you know, didn'tunderstand something, I also
very frequently will after aninformal kind of share a
resource or a tool or an ideathat might be helpful for
whatever it is that they weredoing.
But I also go into classrooms aton and teach.
So I go in if teachers needhelp with.
You know we do grade levelprograms, we have curriculum
(22:23):
fair that we do at our school.
You know I have my bunny Moffatthat goes into kindergarten
every week to read a story.
So I'm in the classroom a lotalso just like teaching or
helping.
So that sort of helps, I think,as well.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It gives you such a good perspective of that whole
circle of what curriculum isright.
It's not just what's written onthe paper, but you're actually
supporting the teachers to do it, modelling how to do it, giving
them feedback on how they'redoing it.
It's this huge big process andcycle, so it's really cool to
hear that you're able to put allof those pieces together in
(23:02):
your role.
That's really cool.
So, jill, when we are sayinggoodbye to our guests, we always
ask for a pare-down pointer, soit could be building on
something you've alreadymentioned or something
completely different.
Just a little tip or strategyfor our listeners.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Yeah.
So I was thinking about thisahead of us, talking and
thinking about something thatactually helps our students,
which I thought might be helpfulto people we started and also
really helps with organization,which I think is we're always
trying to figure that out andalso trying to teach and equip
(23:39):
our students to be able to beorganized.
We started doing in our middleschool a few years ago, color
coding, and so our classes arecolor coded, and so that means
that anything that's happening,like the English folder is blue
for six, seven and eight.
Right, the red folder is thissubject for six, seven and eight
, and it helps the kids organizethemselves a ton, and so I'm
(24:03):
actually thinking this yearwe're going to start to like
push it down into our lowerschool and start having our four
and five students do it, and sowhen I was doing this as a
teacher, I actually also use itas my organization tool because
it made it super easy.
If I needed okay, I need blueEnglish, let me just grab the
blue folder, right.
And so that, I think, is one ofthose super simple things that,
(24:31):
like almost anybody can, can doand implement that is hugely
effective and just productivity.
So that would be like myteacher and student tip, I think
.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I love that you're doing that as a school system
because you know a lot ofteachers do that.
I did that as well and I think,even just taking away that
decision the teacher has to makeon their own where it's like
what color am I going to usethis where you're especially
newer teachers right, where theymight not have that system yet,
but just like across the schooleverybody's English is blue,
(25:03):
like that's just super helpfulto think about.
That.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Usually a classroom system as a school wide system,
just for overall organization, Ilove it, yeah, and we've found
that a lot of our kids that whenthey go to high school they use
the same colors.
Oh yeah, no, that's so.
They move on and they keep thecolors yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I think that's forever imprinted in my mind
because my reading was alwaysred, reading red writing blue.
Yeah, math was green, I don'tknow.
No, science was green.
That made sense.
Nature, yes, well, thank you somuch for your time today, jill.
That was an awesomeconversation.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Yeah, thank you.
It was good for me to chatabout it and actually kind of
made me reflect on all of it.
So, thank you, I'm really happyto share and I hope what I, any
some of what I said, washelpful to people.
Yes, for sure.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, Thank you.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Plan Z Professional
Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at planzPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
The music for the podcast has been written and
performed by Gaia Moretti.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
On this week's episode, our guest is Jill Cross
.
She speaks with us aboutcurriculum development and lots
of factors to consider dependingon what context you are in
development and lots of factorsto consider depending on what
context you are in.
Jill Cross is a National BoardCertified Teacher and ASCD
Emerging Leader with 20 years ofexperience in public, charter
and independent schools.
Jill has conducted curriculumdevelopment in public and
(00:56):
private schools and frequentlypresents across the country on
teacher leadership, object-basedlearning, personalised
professional and curriculumwriting.
Jill is a Colonial WilliamsburgMaster Teacher and the
co-author of Living History inthe Classroom Performance and
Pedagogy.
Her passion is supportingteachers in planting seeds of
change that have the capacity totransform education.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Jill is the Director of Curriculum and Instruction at
Born Bloom Jewish CommunitySchool in Tennessee.
Hello everyone and welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator podcast.
Today we are interviewing JillCross, who is the Curriculum
Director at a school in Memphis.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Welcome to the show, Jill Hi, thank you for having me
.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I'm excited to talk to y'all.
Thank you, how are you today,christine?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I am very well.
I'm excited to have a chat withanother curriculum person and
get into good discussion.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, me too.
So, jill, in your role you'vegot a lot to manage.
But before we get to all ofthat because it's a big job can
you just give us a little bit ofbackground of how you got into
the role around?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
curriculum, actually never thought I would be in
education and ended up doing it.
I thought as a way to pay forgrad school and started
part-time teaching art anddiscovered I kind of liked it
and so I started teaching in.
(02:38):
And actually I started teachingin a small Catholic school in
Florida.
And I have no educationbackground, my degree is not in
education.
I had no idea what I was doing.
I actually wrote at one pointan apology letter on my blog to
my first year students becauseall the things that we don't
know when we start right.
And then I ended up going topublic school and I was there
(03:00):
for a long time and I was at aK-5.
I was a classroom teacher but Iwas serving as a magnet time
and I was at a K-5.
I was a classroom teacher but Iwas serving as a magnet lead.
So we had a big magnet programin the district where I worked
and I had a magnet programcalled academic enrichment that
I just could not sell because itwas like standards based
instruction, which really wasn'tnew and innovative in like 2007
(03:21):
, you know.
So I heard about museum schoolsat a magnet meeting and my
background is in humanities andthe arts and so I immediately
was like we're doing that?
And so I went to the district,I convinced them to include us
in a DOE grant for that.
We were awarded $1.3 millionover four years and I shifted
(03:44):
into a role as curriculumspecialist.
So I built the program from theground up, working on an
integrated museum kind of well,I call it.
Museum learning is sort of whatI call it.
And so we were partnered witheight local cultural
institutions and the Universityof North Florida College of Art
and Design, and it was in thatrole that I kind of learned
everything about how to workwith people with curriculum and
(04:10):
how to kind of manage the.
You know teachers are verymarried to what they do and so
how to negotiate that and be acheerleader and kind of how to
give gentle nudges when it comesto curriculum.
And so after that I ended up youknow that was a grant funded
position so I shifted intoindependent schools and I found
(04:31):
I really liked independentschools because we have a lot of
freedom in our curriculum.
And so I did this at anotherschool 612.
And now I am here, I wanted toget back towards the South.
And now I am here, I wanted toget back towards the South.
I'm at a great K-8 independentJewish day school, so our
(04:54):
challenge is that we teach 100%of what we call general studies
curriculum in two-thirds of thetime, because our students spend
a third of the day in Jewishstudies.
So all of the work that I didat the museum school and
everywhere else on integrationhas become super important, and
all of the curriculum work thatI've done has been, you know,
distilling the curriculum downto essential has been super
important in this role.
So, yeah, so that's how I endedup here in Memphis, tennessee.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
That is quite the journey, jill.
I really like hearing aboutthat you were talking there
about.
You know about teachers beingmarried to their work, and I
think that's something we comeacross all the time is that it
really becomes a part of ouridentity and how we know
ourselves as an educator.
So how does that fit in withcurriculum, especially when
(05:42):
there's curriculum changes?
If you're messing with people'scurriculum changes, if you're
like messing with people'sidentity.
How have you found thatexperience?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, so it's it.
That is always a challenge, andtrying to find the balance of
allowing people to have theirpassions and to teach in in the
way that they feel reallypassionate about, because, you
know, that's also important justfor faculty retention and also
so to kind of take that alongwith, like, okay, here's what
(06:12):
our graduates need to be able todo, you know, or here's what
our fourth graders need to havemastered by the end of this year
, and so that's always aninteresting balancing act For us
.
I think the you know I am wegive a lot of freedom and
autonomy with our faculty, andso we it's a lot of relationship
(06:34):
building is that's a big, hugechunk of it.
You know a lot.
I'm in a small school, luckily,and so there's a lot of
conversation happening, informalconversations, and I always
kind of tell our teachers like,even if you're in the faculty
workroom talking to somebodyabout curriculum or talking to
someone about redoing anassessment or watching a TED
(06:57):
talk to get content, backgroundknowledge, all that's PD and we
need to look at it like that.
And so, yeah, it's a lot ofrelationship building.
It's a lot of finding.
There's a lot of likepsychology in it too, so it's
like finding what it is that'sgoing to be the thing that's
(07:18):
going to push someone to thinkdifferently about the curriculum
.
You know, one thing I also runinto all the time is teachers
will say my curriculum, I haveto cover this in my curriculum,
right, and I hear that a lot,and to which I want to say it's
the school's curriculum, youknow, and so that I think,
really speaks to like how peoplethey have internalized it.
(07:40):
You know so much.
So, yeah, it's a challenge.
I enjoy it because it's likedifferent every day.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It's just so interesting to hear, um, yeah,
how, how teachers really do getattached to their, to the
curriculum, which, I mean, saysa lot about a teacher as a
person.
Then, right, because you knowthat they really want to know it
, they want to teach it well.
Because you know that theyreally want to know it, they
want to teach it well.
(08:07):
Whether they know how to isanother thing, so there's that
piece to it as well.
So what do you find?
What do you find Because youmentioned kind of some of the
challenge there what is like thehardest part of get kind of
like getting teachers to likestep back and look at the bigger
picture of it?
Maybe like, how do you navigatethat?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
yeah, yeah, and that is hard right, because, you know
, I think one thing I enjoyedabout being a classroom teacher
was I would go in my room andshut the door and I could do my
thing right.
Um, and I don't think I reallyunderstood until I moved into a
curriculum or role, like, oh,there's a whole ecosystem that
is outside of this right, andhow everything works together,
(08:51):
and so I think for us we reallypush peer observation here and
so the you know, I reallybelieve that visiting classrooms
is like another great form ofPD, right, and so the more that
we can get our teachers intoother spaces and other
classrooms and see what'shappening as far as the
(09:12):
curriculum expectations go, orstudent behavior, or you know
what is this teacher doingthat's really working for this
or that, the better it.
You know it helps us to helpthem see the big picture.
We also kind of talk to themabout and this is something that
our advancement directorstarted doing is talking to our
(09:32):
teachers about how we're sort ofthe air traffic controllers in
our school and the teachers arekind of the pilots, and so, you
know, trying to figure out howwe can help teachers to shift to
sort of think in that way.
That is something that we workon a lot.
We also open up all of ourfaculty meetings in a teacher's
(09:55):
classroom and we ask the teacherto share something from their
lesson, either a reallyinteresting lesson resource or
like why is the the space theway that it is?
So our middle school teachersare going down to the
kindergarten classroom andthey're sitting in the
kindergarten chairs at the startof our faculty meetings before
we move into other things.
So that also has been reallyhelpful have you?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
have you found that you can use the same sorts of
strategies to build thattrusting relationship between
peers and with the teachers andyourself at all of your
different locations that you'veworked in, because you've been
in a similar role in differentplaces?
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, it's different everywhere that I go.
So it really is differenteverywhere that I go.
Yeah, I work with a reallygreat, flexible faculty here,
but the strategies some of themare the same.
You know, kind of the gentlenudges that I still do, or being
a cheerleader, making sure thatyou know I leave little notes
(10:59):
in boxes from time to time, likethank you, even for simple
little.
You know you filled out a PDform.
Thank you for being soconscientious to fill this out
because it helps me do my jobright.
That's always a strategy thatis helpful.
But you know, it's really justlike a classroom and every,
every interaction I have withteachers has to be so
(11:22):
individualized.
And that goes back to thatgetting to know them and getting
to understand like what makesthem tick and what their
passions are.
I wish I could say there waslike a really great strategy
that would work across allcontexts, but I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I found that yet across all contexts, but I don't
know that I've found that yet.
Yeah, it's a work in progressfor sure, you know, because
you're navigating so many piecesto a big puzzle.
So my question is kind ofrelated to that.
So, even though you don't have,like maybe the answer, but what
are some structures or systemsthat you do have in place to be
(12:00):
able to like effectively andefficiently visit classrooms and
talk with people and thingslike that?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, so I a lot of.
I've really shifted.
The last time I switched rolesI got rid of all of my paper
files when I moved and it waspainful, um, because I had like
years of paper files.
But I have really found that Ikind of live and breathe off my
(12:31):
digital resources now and myOneDrive folders and my digital
calendar and all of all of thosethings kind of you know, if
it's not on my calendar, like itjust doesn't really exist in my
world at the moment now, and soI'm really good about
calendaring.
I also will you know, I used touse a full focus planner and I
(12:54):
found it wasn't great for me fornote taking.
But what I did take away fromthat was the kind of idea of the
top three.
So in that you know you haveyour to-do list and picking out
your top three for the day andso and I find a lot of power in
like writing that down andchecking it off or crossing it
off, and so I do that kind ofevery day I revisit that and
(13:15):
figure out what my top three aregoing to be for the day.
The other thing I do is I kindof look at, I don't have a grand
plan for how I'm observingteachers, because we're kind of
small and I'm like all aroundall the time.
But what I do do is I kind oflook at the day and the schedule
and I make a list, just on apost-it note, of classes I plan
to visit that day and the timeswhen I know things are happening
(13:37):
, and I stick it in my pocketand even if I, you know, because
we do a lot of informalobservations, I'll just pop in
for just a few minutes.
That has helped me a ton, justyou know, and some days I don't
get to it right, and but then Ihave other days where I'll have
a list of like six people I wantto visit that day, you know,
(13:59):
and so that is super helpful.
I also kind of chunk my time.
So if, because I do work on alot of kind of bigger
initiatives and longer termprojects that I obviously can't
finish in a day or a week, andso I will kind of calendar and
chunk my time to work on that,so if you know, for instance,
(14:21):
like our capstone project, itrequires some work from me, and
so I make sure to kind of putthat in my calendar for, you
know, even an hour.
The other thing that I findsuper helpful is I have really
short, specific meetings withteachers with action items and a
list when I go into it andTammy knows this from our board
(14:44):
like I like to be superefficient and so I find, you
know, just having, like you know, some I will schedule 30
minutes, but a lot of times it'sjust like a 15 minute meeting
by the end of it, cause we'reyou know, I, I know how valuable
our teacher's time is.
My time is valuable too, so Itry to keep it short and
specific.
The other thing I do a lot ofis I email stuff to myself.
(15:07):
So if I have things that I needto get done or I'll, I just
email it to myself because Iknow that I will see it uh, you
know in when I'm going throughmy emails.
So that's another thing that'skind of been helpful.
We have, we all of our general,so I oversee all of our general
studies curriculum and so all ofour general studies curriculum
(15:32):
lives in OneDrive, in foldersand all of that, and we've done
I've done a lot of work to helpour teachers and also help me,
because we're trying to fit in100% of the curriculum in two
thirds of the day on integrating.
And so, you know, we adopted areading program, reading writing
(15:55):
program, and so, to help us, Irewrote and adjusted our science
and social studies, because itwas a heavy knowledge building
curriculum.
I rewrote our science andsocial studies to match it,
because it helps us get ateverything and anytime we can
integrate it.
You know it's not only good forthe kids, it's, you know it's.
(16:17):
It helps the teachers feel likethey're accomplishing more.
Yeah, so that that's a few fewof the things that that I kind
of do to keep myself moving.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, you, you mentioned lots of different
roles and responsibilities thatyou that you have at your school
, so I would love to know alittle bit about you know the
percentage of time that youspend on different tasks, like,
are you full-time in this role?
And, obviously, like I do, thetop three priorities for the day
as well, but my top threepriorities were way out the
(16:51):
window today at work.
So I know that you know we'retalking in an ideal world here,
but I'd love to hear about howyou divide up your week with all
of these different roles andresponsibilities that you have.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Let's see.
So I work on our curriculum, Iwork on teacher, teacher,
teacher coaching, I work on ourdesign thinking program.
I teach in our design thinkingprogram on Thursdays.
I teach in our design thinkingprogram on Thursdays, and then I
have leadershipresponsibilities and new
initiatives and partnering withthe advancement director on
(17:26):
things that are happening, or,you know, our grandparents day
and all you know.
So I, what I know, a lot ofpeople work differently when it
comes to this, but I kind of dothings as they come.
I still have my lists right,but if I have, you know, I try
to respond to emails kind ofquickly because I will lose them
(17:49):
, you know, in a long list ofemails later.
You know if somebody comes tome.
You know, a teacher just cameto me and asked me for something
and I had a minute while I wasin the office, so I went and
found it right.
So I try to kind of do thingsas they come, which helps me a
lot.
I guess that's the best answerto that is that I do things as
(18:10):
they come.
I don't know that I have agrand plan for dividing my week.
I kind of know what's cominglong term ahead and, like I said
that, putting it, things in thecalendar and chunking time for
certain days.
Like I know, thursdays is ourexperiential day for our
students and I know thatThursdays is going.
I don't really have a Thursdayright, I'm going to be in that
(18:34):
space with our middle schoolersall day on Thursday and so so I
just plan my week around that.
And same with our leadershipmeetings.
You know our leadershipmeetings are count.
You know we kind of say likeit's an hour, but sometimes they
go much longer and and so Ijust sort of know middle of the
day, monday, I'm not probablygoing to be getting much done
(18:58):
and so those things I can planaround and I sort of know
they're coming, but for the mostpart I'm taking things as they
go and working.
I try not to take a whole lothome with me.
I've gotten better at that Nowthat I've been in the role.
This is my fifth year, so I'mmuch better at kind of not doing
(19:18):
that and I really advocate forour teachers not to do that.
But when report cards arecoming out, which they just did,
I had to spend all weekendediting report card comments
Right, but that sort of stuff isstuff I can do at home in my
pajamas while I'm watching Britbox, and you know that kind of
thing?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, I so it's one of your tasklist things.
You mentioned having, you know,a little list is stuck in your
pocket with you know spots whereyou want to potentially stop
for the day, and so, like havingthat system of like just the
informal pop-ins, how do youbuild the trust with your staff,
(20:00):
just so they know that, like,this is what we do, this is, you
know, this is just how it'sgoing to be.
I'm just going to pop inwhenever and you know, like, how
do you establish that culture?
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, so that took a little bit of time and I think
you know, at the start of everysingle school year, you know we
have the faculty that have been,that have been here since I've
been here, they're they're sortof used used to that happening.
But we're such a small schooland our leadership are always
popping into classrooms so thatyou know that that's just sort
(20:34):
of the culture of our school.
But I still have teachers whoget get anxious right, and I'll
get a text after I've come in.
And what did you think, youknow, if I haven't sent the
email, the informal form, tothem?
But at the beginning of theyear I pop in without doing kind
of official note taking, and Ijust pop in and I send a text
(20:58):
afterwards.
That's like a positive thing,and so I do that for a little
while at the start of the year,just so that people don't feel
like it's.
You know it's never a gotcha,but some people still feel that
way, right?
So if I can make sure to pointout all the positives from the
start, it helps when I have tosay, like you know, have you
(21:19):
considered this right?
The way that our informalfeedback form works is it's all
digital and it has, like theDanielson, you know, a bunch of
indicators that we've decidedfrom Danielson that are
important to our context, andthen a box at the bottom for me
(21:40):
to write comments and whatnot.
And I always try to ask aquestion.
That is going to sort ofrequire somebody to either
respond to me or come pop by myoffice and talk to me.
So that sort of helps me tobuild that relationship and also
helps me understand betterwhat's happening.
(22:00):
If I, you know, didn'tunderstand something, I also
very frequently will after aninformal kind of share a
resource or a tool or an ideathat might be helpful for
whatever it is that they weredoing.
But I also go into classrooms aton and teach.
So I go in if teachers needhelp with.
You know we do grade levelprograms, we have curriculum
(22:23):
fair that we do at our school.
You know I have my bunny Moffatthat goes into kindergarten
every week to read a story.
So I'm in the classroom a lotalso just like teaching or
helping.
So that sort of helps, I think,as well.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It gives you such a good perspective of that whole
circle of what curriculum isright.
It's not just what's written onthe paper, but you're actually
supporting the teachers to do it, modelling how to do it, giving
them feedback on how they'redoing it.
It's this huge big process andcycle, so it's really cool to
hear that you're able to put allof those pieces together in
(23:02):
your role.
That's really cool.
So, jill, when we are sayinggoodbye to our guests, we always
ask for a pare-down pointer, soit could be building on
something you've alreadymentioned or something
completely different.
Just a little tip or strategyfor our listeners.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Yeah.
So I was thinking about thisahead of us, talking and
thinking about something thatactually helps our students,
which I thought might be helpfulto people we started and also
really helps with organization,which I think is we're always
trying to figure that out andalso trying to teach and equip
(23:39):
our students to be able to beorganized.
We started doing in our middleschool a few years ago, color
coding, and so our classes arecolor coded, and so that means
that anything that's happening,like the English folder is blue
for six, seven and eight.
Right, the red folder is thissubject for six, seven and eight
, and it helps the kids organizethemselves a ton, and so I'm
(24:03):
actually thinking this yearwe're going to start to like
push it down into our lowerschool and start having our four
and five students do it, and sowhen I was doing this as a
teacher, I actually also use itas my organization tool because
it made it super easy.
If I needed okay, I need blueEnglish, let me just grab the
blue folder, right.
And so that, I think, is one ofthose super simple things that,
(24:31):
like almost anybody can, can doand implement that is hugely
effective and just productivity.
So that would be like myteacher and student tip, I think
.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I love that you're doing that as a school system
because you know a lot ofteachers do that.
I did that as well and I think,even just taking away that
decision the teacher has to makeon their own where it's like
what color am I going to usethis where you're especially
newer teachers right, where theymight not have that system yet,
but just like across the schooleverybody's English is blue,
(25:03):
like that's just super helpfulto think about.
That.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Usually a classroom system as a school wide system,
just for overall organization, Ilove it, yeah, and we've found
that a lot of our kids that whenthey go to high school they use
the same colors.
Oh yeah, no, that's so.
They move on and they keep thecolors yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I think that's forever imprinted in my mind
because my reading was alwaysred, reading red writing blue.
Yeah, math was green, I don'tknow.
No, science was green.
That made sense.
Nature, yes, well, thank you somuch for your time today, jill.
That was an awesomeconversation.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Yeah, thank you.
It was good for me to chatabout it and actually kind of
made me reflect on all of it.
So, thank you, I'm really happyto share and I hope what I, any
some of what I said, washelpful to people.
Yes, for sure.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, Thank you.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Plan Z Professional
Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at planzPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
The music for the podcast has been written and
performed by Gaia Moretti.
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