March 18, 2025 • 20 mins
Unlock the secrets of effective teaching by mastering the "double whammy" strategy with us on this week's Minimalist Educator Podcast. We'll guide you through the art of teaching content and learning behaviors simultaneously, a transformative approach pioneered by Guy Claxton. Discover how adopting this dual focus can reshape your classroom, ensuring that students not only absorb academic knowledge but also develop crucial learning behaviors that lead to long-term success. Through our personal stories and insights, you'll learn how subtle cues from educators can significantly influence students' approach to learning and achievement.
Join us as we highlight the importance of prioritizing skills over mere content. We'll take you inside a fifth-grade math classroom where conversation and collaboration take center stage, showcasing the impact of co-creating goals with students. By incorporating visual aids and tracking systems, you can enhance engagement and ensure a balanced approach to education that equally values skill development and content mastery.
This week's episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services - forward-thinking educator support.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
In this week's episode we are in part two of a
three-part band all aroundinstructional strategies.
In this episode we're divinginto the double whammy what it
is, how it works and why itmight just be your secret weapon
.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Let's get into it and we hope you enjoy.
Hello everyone, welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator.
Today I am chatting it up withChristine.
Hi, christine, hi there, howare you today?
Oh, all right.
I'm excited to talk abouttoday's topic because it follows
up last week's topic reallywell.
(01:16):
And it's an interesting one, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
How are you?
I think?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
so too.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, no, I'm good Happy to be here and have a chat
about today's topic as well.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So we're going to dig in a little bit to what's
called a double whammy, and sothis is something we mentioned
in our book as an effectiveinstructional strategy, and it
follows our episode on oneteaching point.
So already we're talking likeone teaching point and then
(01:51):
we're talking double whammy.
So can you give us a little bitof info on what a double whammy
is?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Absolutely so.
The double whammy, as it isknown as, was coined by Guy
Claxton, and he was talkingabout how important it is for us
to frame our learning, ourteaching and learning the
content of a lesson alongsidethe learning skill or the
(02:22):
learning behaviour.
So while we know the content isso important for us to teach,
we also need to consider thelearning behaviors that we want
our students to be picking upalongside that at the same time.
So that's what Guy Claxton isreferring to when he says double
whammy.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Okay.
So we're not talking about liketwo pieces of content or two
doubling up like that.
It's two different things, butworking together simultaneously.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Absolutely.
That's right, and a big part ofwhat he's talking about is that
whether you plan for thelearning skills, the learning
behaviors to be picked up, oryou don't plan for the learning
skills, the learning behavioursto be picked up, or you don't
plan for that, the kids aregoing to learn something anyway.
So even if you ignore all thatwe know about, you know 21st
(03:16):
century learning skills orattributes of good learners, if
you ignore all of that and justsay I've got my content I need
to cover, the kids are going tobe learning what is valued, what
is important for them to bedoing.
How can they be successful inthe classroom?
And so his argument is that weshould do this really
(03:36):
intentionally so that the kidsare picking up positive learning
behaviours and that we arehaving a clear direction with
that rather than it happening.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
incidentally, yeah, that's.
I mean, he guy, class claxton,is a cognitive scientist and
education researcher.
So, like you know, I'm prettysure he knows what he's talking
about when he says that theintentionality is super
important.
Because I remember again, youknow teaching full time and I'm
(04:13):
like, okay, this is the stuffwe're covering, and then didn't
really pay attention too much tothose behaviors, even though
there was expectations and youknow, I would mention things.
Or my co teacher would be like,remember, we, you know I would
mention things.
Or my co-teacher would be like,remember, we, you know, we're
teaching this strategy, but agood reader does this, and so we
were doing that to an extent,but we weren't super intentional
(04:37):
about it.
I think it was just kind of anatural part of how we would
teach.
But the intentionality isreally important when we want to
see specific behaviors,especially, you know, like these
behaviors are ones that we wantto see when kids are being
taught when they're little, allthe way through school, and we
(05:01):
can forget that as students getolder.
We think they just know thebehaviors and so we still have
to, at those older ages, beintentional about what's the
skill or behavior that's goingto be taught alongside this
content.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
True, Absolutely, yeah for sure.
It's making me think about thatintentional, not intentional
thing.
It's making me think back towhen not intentional thing.
It's making me, um, think backto when I was a very young, new
teacher in early childhood.
Now I don't know where I pickedthis up from.
I probably heard someone or sawsomeone doing it.
I don't know, I can't remembernow, but I used to.
(05:40):
In the classroom, I used to haveactivities that were negotiable
and non-negotiable.
So there was some choice in theclassroom, but there were some
things that were non-negotiable.
You have to do this in thecourse of your day and um this,
this is how I sort of ran the,the, the centers, or the, the
different activities in the room, and then I started hearing my
(06:01):
kids back in the role playcorner talking to each other
about this is non-negotiable.
I had this real moment of likeoh my goodness, what have I been
instilling in these kids?
And they're now transferring itinto their you know their play
and their social situations.
So, whether you are intendingit or not, they are picking up
(06:24):
cues from you which they willthen use in the rest of their
life.
So you know and I think that canhappen in many different ways.
You know, if we're focusing allthe time feedback that's based
on scoring, where we are puttingacross the message that scores
are important, the number, thequantifiable part of your
(06:46):
learning, is the important part,and so that's what you do.
To achieve, that's what you doto be a successful student in
this environment is to getscores and high scores and so on
and so forth.
So I think, no matter whatwe're doing, what our teaching
approach is, we are instillingthese things into our students.
(07:07):
So it is.
It is really important to bethoughtful with it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Absolutely yeah yeah, I agree.
Um, you never know whatstudents are going to repeat
from you, right, especially?
if it is some of I was thinkingabout too, not just teaching
what the behavior is, but whywe're doing it.
(07:33):
And again, I think that's oneof the things that gets dropped
off like, and kids ask why, like, why are we doing this?
Right, and we can be put off bythe asking why, but we should
really just encourage that morebecause when they understand the
behaviors, for well, when we'redoing this kind of uh thing in
(07:54):
math or science or whatever andwe use these skills, this is why
yeah, because you know, likethis is what a scientist does
and a scientist has to la la, la, and so giving that kind of
almost like a greater context, Iguess, and just understanding
the purpose behind somethingbecause even if you're your
(08:15):
student is five, answer the why.
You know it's not, they're notasking you to be annoying, which
is what feels.
It feels that way sometimes,especially when we get lots of
whys, but that should be anindicator for us that, oh, maybe
I'm not giving them enoughcontext behind the what they're
(08:36):
doing and why they should bedoing it.
And so the double whammy youknow, I'm kind of just thinking
like a little extension on itwhere you know we're going to
learn this and this is a skillthat you learn alongside it, and
this is why we do that, justfor clarity and transparency and
(08:57):
being explicit with ourlanguage, because, again, we
want students to we're the modelwe want them to come away with
the skills that we need them totransfer through every grade
Doesn't matter, and we have todo it repeatedly.
So, yeah, anything else youwant to add on that?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, I just it's.
It's making me think about howit depends so much on the
content that you're doing inyour lesson Doing.
Can you do content?
You know what I mean?
Yes, but you know there arelessons that you're doing or
objectives that you're workingon that will lend itself more
(09:45):
freely to one sort of learningbehaviour or skill that you want
to see in your students morethan others.
So I think that will lead youin the way that you do it.
But, for example, if thestudents were putting together a
presentation and they had acertain amount of time that they
(10:06):
needed to complete thepresentation, if you are
simultaneously talking aboutthose self-management skills and
time management skills of howcan you use the time that you
have available?
What if you get to the daybefore and it's not done?
What are some backup solutions?
So in that environment youmight not necessarily be talking
(10:27):
about the skill of caring orkindness or something like that,
that might not be as relevant,but you can really use the
content and where it leads youto think about what are some of
those learning behaviors orstudent attributes that you want
those kids to have and comeaway with.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
One of the things that are noteven things experiences I guess
that I have used at the schoolwhen I worked in at the school
in kona but learned from ourfriend nicole when teaching in
singapore is how to use this umduring discovery, so kind of
(11:10):
open-ended times where studentsare practicing skills but
they're also reviewing contentthat they've learned throughout
a unit.
So up on the board, beforestudents were set off to do what
they were going to do, it'slike, okay, here's the centers,
(11:30):
basically, or the spots whereyou can visit.
These are the content areas.
So you know fractions orwhatever it is for your unit,
different types of activitiesfor that, and then, as you're
going through these stations,these are the skills that you're
thinking about, and so studentshave the autonomy to choose any
(11:53):
of the stations.
They can stay at one the wholetime.
They can, you know, flitterabout, but they do have to
really think about.
It's a lot of the social skills, honestly, and so there's not
just one skill focus, becauseit's stuff they've been working
on through the unit, but it's umdo if I come up to a new
(12:13):
station, is there enoughmaterial If I join?
If not, what should I do?
So there's that kind of likeself-reflection.
If there's um, you know whenI'm in a station, what skills am
I working on?
And usually there is some placefor them to refer back to
because it is a lot of stuffgoing on.
So then there's the skillrelated piece to that, whatever
(12:36):
the stations are too.
So it sounds like a lot's goingon and it kind of is.
But it's also review, okay.
So it's not teaching like a newskill and new content.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
It's used for review so that they can practice all of
those skills, right I've justnoticed a little pattern, as
we've been talking here withthese examples of of that.
We've been saying it as likecontent first and then the skill
or behavior second, but I Iwant to point out that it
(13:11):
doesn't have to be that way.
We can center those skills andbehaviors first, with the
content coming second as well.
I think that's important tomention.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That's a great point, and I was just in a classroom
it was a fifth grade math andthe teacher prefaced the class
with like here's our goal today.
We're good, we're having mathconversations.
That's our that's our teachingpoint, and so this class like
such great conversationalists.
(13:43):
But when you go around andlisten to them talk about math,
it's amazing.
And so he gave them these kindof little problem cards to
discuss what they were, eitherin pairs or groups of three, and
they had to look at what theimage was.
So you know how importantvisuals are in math.
(14:03):
So they had a visual to look at,and then they had to discuss
what that represented in termsof a decimal, and so they had a
sheet to like match it to.
But the important point was theskill they were working on was
discussion.
It didn't really matter if theygot the answers correct.
I mean, they checked them atthe end, right.
(14:25):
But the point was, and at theend of the lesson the teacher
came back and asked the kidswhat was our goal today, and
they said it was to have goodmath conversations about
whatever.
And he's like you know a quickcheck in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, how you
felt you did with that.
And then, and he's like, andhonestly like I know we're
(14:48):
practicing that content, thatmath content, but I really
wanted to come around and listento you talk to each other about
it, and so I'm like that wasjust really powerful, because I
think that we can also getcaught in.
Well, what's the thing they'regoing to produce today?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Where's the?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
worksheet or where's the paper that has the thing,
and it's not always going to belike that.
Sometimes it's your anecdotalnotes from things that you've
heard kids say that you justhave to jot down, and that's
fine, right.
But the key there was that itwas it definitely was the skill
before the content, and I meanhe could have used any content,
(15:27):
right, he was listening for howthe kids were talking to each
other about that content, so Ithought that was really powerful
, yeah that's very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I like that um so tammy.
Aside from just beingintentional planning it out,
whether it's in your planningdocumentation or just in your in
the front of mind as you gointo your lessons, are there any
other ways that you feel likewe could purposefully powerfully
(15:55):
, um bring in this double whammyapproach?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I think so we could again, I hate to put I'm not
necessarily putting contentfirst, but that's what teachers
know they're going to beteaching.
So I'm going to say teacherscan come with the content and
share with their student.
We're going to be learningabout this for the next three
weeks, or whatever.
Going to be learning about thisfor the next three weeks, or
(16:24):
whatever.
What are some skills you thinkwe need to work on while we
learn this content?
So that co-creation of in theplanning process, where, okay,
students are identifying, youknow, these are the things that
we're going to have to do whenwe're doing research or when
we're doing our small group workor when we are working on our
final project, and so you don'talways have to be the one that
(16:46):
tells them the skills thatthey're working on, because
they'll probably know, which isgreat, but just telling the kids
, right, you can co-create thatlist and post it up, and then
again, that's one of thosereminders for students while
we're learning this content.
These are the skills that I'mgoing to focus on and during
(17:07):
each lesson then you can chooseokay, today, this is what our
content area is, this is howwe're going to learn it.
What skills are we going to belooking at and then each day,
you know, maybe you put asticker, you know, whatever,
something beside it so that thefocus is there for students as
well.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So anytime we can co-create something with our
students, we know that they'regoing to be more invested,
because we're not just tellingthem For sure, and that would be
so cool to do if you're at oneof these schools that has you
know values or a student profilelist, things like that know
(17:44):
values or a student profile list, things like that so you're
actually getting the kids torefer back to those important
things that your school hasarticulated, that you want the
students to be.
Um, so yeah, that'd be a reallyexciting thing to do, to
co-create with the kids together.
I love that, that idea.
Yeah, do we have a pare downpointer today, tammy?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Maybe, as a starting point, would be to evaluate if
and when you're doing doublewhammies Okay.
So I know we didn't really talkabout that, but we kind of did
with like being intentionalabout planning, but do it.
Yeah, do a check in and seewhen, like are you just strictly
(18:27):
focusing on, like, this is thecontent and I'm never talking
about the skills explicitly,because we do have to do that
and just kind of see where thegaps are and maybe where you can
fill in some specific skillpairing with the content.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
For sure, and I think I would build on that and say,
yeah, if you could institutesome sort of tracking system for
what it is that you have, likeif your school has that list
already ready to go, or if youjust pull out those you know
21st century learning skills orwhatever it is that you know of
that you're familiar with, andand try and track it somehow so
(19:08):
that you know you are gettingthat breadth of that as well as
the breadth in content as wellyeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Any kind of system like that is going to help with
your data collection which helpsyou communicate with parents.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So for sure.
And if you get to bring in aspreadsheet in your day, of
course you're going to do that.
Is that just me?
Is that just me?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Oh no, I've got a few spreadsheets myself, so okay.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Bring it in with your double whammy as well.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
I like it.
That's right.
Yeah, for sure, I think.
Yes, I think those are somegood couple of pare down
pointers.
Honestly, it feels doable, Ithink so.
Thanks for this conversation.
It's always a pleasure chatting.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, we'll see you all next time.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at planZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
In this week's episode we are in part two of a
three-part band all aroundinstructional strategies.
In this episode we're divinginto the double whammy what it
is, how it works and why itmight just be your secret weapon
.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Let's get into it and we hope you enjoy.
Hello everyone, welcome totoday's episode of the
Minimalist Educator.
Today I am chatting it up withChristine.
Hi, christine, hi there, howare you today?
Oh, all right.
I'm excited to talk abouttoday's topic because it follows
up last week's topic reallywell.
(01:16):
And it's an interesting one, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
How are you?
I think?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
so too.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, no, I'm good Happy to be here and have a chat
about today's topic as well.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So we're going to dig in a little bit to what's
called a double whammy, and sothis is something we mentioned
in our book as an effectiveinstructional strategy, and it
follows our episode on oneteaching point.
So already we're talking likeone teaching point and then
(01:51):
we're talking double whammy.
So can you give us a little bitof info on what a double whammy
is?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Absolutely so.
The double whammy, as it isknown as, was coined by Guy
Claxton, and he was talkingabout how important it is for us
to frame our learning, ourteaching and learning the
content of a lesson alongsidethe learning skill or the
(02:22):
learning behaviour.
So while we know the content isso important for us to teach,
we also need to consider thelearning behaviors that we want
our students to be picking upalongside that at the same time.
So that's what Guy Claxton isreferring to when he says double
whammy.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Okay.
So we're not talking about liketwo pieces of content or two
doubling up like that.
It's two different things, butworking together simultaneously.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Absolutely.
That's right, and a big part ofwhat he's talking about is that
whether you plan for thelearning skills, the learning
behaviors to be picked up, oryou don't plan for the learning
skills, the learning behavioursto be picked up, or you don't
plan for that, the kids aregoing to learn something anyway.
So even if you ignore all thatwe know about, you know 21st
(03:16):
century learning skills orattributes of good learners, if
you ignore all of that and justsay I've got my content I need
to cover, the kids are going tobe learning what is valued, what
is important for them to bedoing.
How can they be successful inthe classroom?
And so his argument is that weshould do this really
(03:36):
intentionally so that the kidsare picking up positive learning
behaviours and that we arehaving a clear direction with
that rather than it happening.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
incidentally, yeah, that's.
I mean, he guy, class claxton,is a cognitive scientist and
education researcher.
So, like you know, I'm prettysure he knows what he's talking
about when he says that theintentionality is super
important.
Because I remember again, youknow teaching full time and I'm
(04:13):
like, okay, this is the stuffwe're covering, and then didn't
really pay attention too much tothose behaviors, even though
there was expectations and youknow, I would mention things.
Or my co teacher would be like,remember, we, you know I would
mention things.
Or my co-teacher would be like,remember, we, you know, we're
teaching this strategy, but agood reader does this, and so we
were doing that to an extent,but we weren't super intentional
(04:37):
about it.
I think it was just kind of anatural part of how we would
teach.
But the intentionality isreally important when we want to
see specific behaviors,especially, you know, like these
behaviors are ones that we wantto see when kids are being
taught when they're little, allthe way through school, and we
(05:01):
can forget that as students getolder.
We think they just know thebehaviors and so we still have
to, at those older ages, beintentional about what's the
skill or behavior that's goingto be taught alongside this
content.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
True, Absolutely, yeah for sure.
It's making me think about thatintentional, not intentional
thing.
It's making me think back towhen not intentional thing.
It's making me, um, think backto when I was a very young, new
teacher in early childhood.
Now I don't know where I pickedthis up from.
I probably heard someone or sawsomeone doing it.
I don't know, I can't remembernow, but I used to.
(05:40):
In the classroom, I used to haveactivities that were negotiable
and non-negotiable.
So there was some choice in theclassroom, but there were some
things that were non-negotiable.
You have to do this in thecourse of your day and um this,
this is how I sort of ran the,the, the centers, or the, the
different activities in the room, and then I started hearing my
(06:01):
kids back in the role playcorner talking to each other
about this is non-negotiable.
I had this real moment of likeoh my goodness, what have I been
instilling in these kids?
And they're now transferring itinto their you know their play
and their social situations.
So, whether you are intendingit or not, they are picking up
(06:24):
cues from you which they willthen use in the rest of their
life.
So you know and I think that canhappen in many different ways.
You know, if we're focusing allthe time feedback that's based
on scoring, where we are puttingacross the message that scores
are important, the number, thequantifiable part of your
(06:46):
learning, is the important part,and so that's what you do.
To achieve, that's what you doto be a successful student in
this environment is to getscores and high scores and so on
and so forth.
So I think, no matter whatwe're doing, what our teaching
approach is, we are instillingthese things into our students.
(07:07):
So it is.
It is really important to bethoughtful with it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Absolutely yeah yeah, I agree.
Um, you never know whatstudents are going to repeat
from you, right, especially?
if it is some of I was thinkingabout too, not just teaching
what the behavior is, but whywe're doing it.
(07:33):
And again, I think that's oneof the things that gets dropped
off like, and kids ask why, like, why are we doing this?
Right, and we can be put off bythe asking why, but we should
really just encourage that morebecause when they understand the
behaviors, for well, when we'redoing this kind of uh thing in
(07:54):
math or science or whatever andwe use these skills, this is why
yeah, because you know, likethis is what a scientist does
and a scientist has to la la, la, and so giving that kind of
almost like a greater context, Iguess, and just understanding
the purpose behind somethingbecause even if you're your
(08:15):
student is five, answer the why.
You know it's not, they're notasking you to be annoying, which
is what feels.
It feels that way sometimes,especially when we get lots of
whys, but that should be anindicator for us that, oh, maybe
I'm not giving them enoughcontext behind the what they're
(08:36):
doing and why they should bedoing it.
And so the double whammy youknow, I'm kind of just thinking
like a little extension on itwhere you know we're going to
learn this and this is a skillthat you learn alongside it, and
this is why we do that, justfor clarity and transparency and
(08:57):
being explicit with ourlanguage, because, again, we
want students to we're the modelwe want them to come away with
the skills that we need them totransfer through every grade
Doesn't matter, and we have todo it repeatedly.
So, yeah, anything else youwant to add on that?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, I just it's.
It's making me think about howit depends so much on the
content that you're doing inyour lesson Doing.
Can you do content?
You know what I mean?
Yes, but you know there arelessons that you're doing or
objectives that you're workingon that will lend itself more
(09:45):
freely to one sort of learningbehaviour or skill that you want
to see in your students morethan others.
So I think that will lead youin the way that you do it.
But, for example, if thestudents were putting together a
presentation and they had acertain amount of time that they
(10:06):
needed to complete thepresentation, if you are
simultaneously talking aboutthose self-management skills and
time management skills of howcan you use the time that you
have available?
What if you get to the daybefore and it's not done?
What are some backup solutions?
So in that environment youmight not necessarily be talking
(10:27):
about the skill of caring orkindness or something like that,
that might not be as relevant,but you can really use the
content and where it leads youto think about what are some of
those learning behaviors orstudent attributes that you want
those kids to have and comeaway with.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
One of the things that are noteven things experiences I guess
that I have used at the schoolwhen I worked in at the school
in kona but learned from ourfriend nicole when teaching in
singapore is how to use this umduring discovery, so kind of
(11:10):
open-ended times where studentsare practicing skills but
they're also reviewing contentthat they've learned throughout
a unit.
So up on the board, beforestudents were set off to do what
they were going to do, it'slike, okay, here's the centers,
(11:30):
basically, or the spots whereyou can visit.
These are the content areas.
So you know fractions orwhatever it is for your unit,
different types of activitiesfor that, and then, as you're
going through these stations,these are the skills that you're
thinking about, and so studentshave the autonomy to choose any
(11:53):
of the stations.
They can stay at one the wholetime.
They can, you know, flitterabout, but they do have to
really think about.
It's a lot of the social skills, honestly, and so there's not
just one skill focus, becauseit's stuff they've been working
on through the unit, but it's umdo if I come up to a new
(12:13):
station, is there enoughmaterial If I join?
If not, what should I do?
So there's that kind of likeself-reflection.
If there's um, you know whenI'm in a station, what skills am
I working on?
And usually there is some placefor them to refer back to
because it is a lot of stuffgoing on.
So then there's the skillrelated piece to that, whatever
(12:36):
the stations are too.
So it sounds like a lot's goingon and it kind of is.
But it's also review, okay.
So it's not teaching like a newskill and new content.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
It's used for review so that they can practice all of
those skills, right I've justnoticed a little pattern, as
we've been talking here withthese examples of of that.
We've been saying it as likecontent first and then the skill
or behavior second, but I Iwant to point out that it
(13:11):
doesn't have to be that way.
We can center those skills andbehaviors first, with the
content coming second as well.
I think that's important tomention.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That's a great point, and I was just in a classroom
it was a fifth grade math andthe teacher prefaced the class
with like here's our goal today.
We're good, we're having mathconversations.
That's our that's our teachingpoint, and so this class like
such great conversationalists.
(13:43):
But when you go around andlisten to them talk about math,
it's amazing.
And so he gave them these kindof little problem cards to
discuss what they were, eitherin pairs or groups of three, and
they had to look at what theimage was.
So you know how importantvisuals are in math.
(14:03):
So they had a visual to look at,and then they had to discuss
what that represented in termsof a decimal, and so they had a
sheet to like match it to.
But the important point was theskill they were working on was
discussion.
It didn't really matter if theygot the answers correct.
I mean, they checked them atthe end, right.
(14:25):
But the point was, and at theend of the lesson the teacher
came back and asked the kidswhat was our goal today, and
they said it was to have goodmath conversations about
whatever.
And he's like you know a quickcheck in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, how you
felt you did with that.
And then, and he's like, andhonestly like I know we're
(14:48):
practicing that content, thatmath content, but I really
wanted to come around and listento you talk to each other about
it, and so I'm like that wasjust really powerful, because I
think that we can also getcaught in.
Well, what's the thing they'regoing to produce today?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Where's the?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
worksheet or where's the paper that has the thing,
and it's not always going to belike that.
Sometimes it's your anecdotalnotes from things that you've
heard kids say that you justhave to jot down, and that's
fine, right.
But the key there was that itwas it definitely was the skill
before the content, and I meanhe could have used any content,
(15:27):
right, he was listening for howthe kids were talking to each
other about that content, so Ithought that was really powerful
, yeah that's very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I like that um so tammy.
Aside from just beingintentional planning it out,
whether it's in your planningdocumentation or just in your in
the front of mind as you gointo your lessons, are there any
other ways that you feel likewe could purposefully powerfully
(15:55):
, um bring in this double whammyapproach?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I think so we could again, I hate to put I'm not
necessarily putting contentfirst, but that's what teachers
know they're going to beteaching.
So I'm going to say teacherscan come with the content and
share with their student.
We're going to be learningabout this for the next three
weeks, or whatever.
Going to be learning about thisfor the next three weeks, or
(16:24):
whatever.
What are some skills you thinkwe need to work on while we
learn this content?
So that co-creation of in theplanning process, where, okay,
students are identifying, youknow, these are the things that
we're going to have to do whenwe're doing research or when
we're doing our small group workor when we are working on our
final project, and so you don'talways have to be the one that
(16:46):
tells them the skills thatthey're working on, because
they'll probably know, which isgreat, but just telling the kids
, right, you can co-create thatlist and post it up, and then
again, that's one of thosereminders for students while
we're learning this content.
These are the skills that I'mgoing to focus on and during
(17:07):
each lesson then you can chooseokay, today, this is what our
content area is, this is howwe're going to learn it.
What skills are we going to belooking at and then each day,
you know, maybe you put asticker, you know, whatever,
something beside it so that thefocus is there for students as
well.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So anytime we can co-create something with our
students, we know that they'regoing to be more invested,
because we're not just tellingthem For sure, and that would be
so cool to do if you're at oneof these schools that has you
know values or a student profilelist, things like that know
(17:44):
values or a student profile list, things like that so you're
actually getting the kids torefer back to those important
things that your school hasarticulated, that you want the
students to be.
Um, so yeah, that'd be a reallyexciting thing to do, to
co-create with the kids together.
I love that, that idea.
Yeah, do we have a pare downpointer today, tammy?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Maybe, as a starting point, would be to evaluate if
and when you're doing doublewhammies Okay.
So I know we didn't really talkabout that, but we kind of did
with like being intentionalabout planning, but do it.
Yeah, do a check in and seewhen, like are you just strictly
(18:27):
focusing on, like, this is thecontent and I'm never talking
about the skills explicitly,because we do have to do that
and just kind of see where thegaps are and maybe where you can
fill in some specific skillpairing with the content.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
For sure, and I think I would build on that and say,
yeah, if you could institutesome sort of tracking system for
what it is that you have, likeif your school has that list
already ready to go, or if youjust pull out those you know
21st century learning skills orwhatever it is that you know of
that you're familiar with, andand try and track it somehow so
(19:08):
that you know you are gettingthat breadth of that as well as
the breadth in content as wellyeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Any kind of system like that is going to help with
your data collection which helpsyou communicate with parents.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So for sure.
And if you get to bring in aspreadsheet in your day, of
course you're going to do that.
Is that just me?
Is that just me?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Oh no, I've got a few spreadsheets myself, so okay.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Bring it in with your double whammy as well.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
I like it.
That's right.
Yeah, for sure, I think.
Yes, I think those are somegood couple of pare down
pointers.
Honestly, it feels doable, Ithink so.
Thanks for this conversation.
It's always a pleasure chatting.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, we'll see you all next time.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at planZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
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