April 8, 2025 • 26 mins
Lindsay Durkin shares her transformative transition from a passionate first-grade teacher to a corporate training manager, reflecting on the challenges of feeling unfulfilled in teaching and the valuable skills she carries into her new role. The episode emphasizes the importance of recognizing one's value beyond the classroom and the potential for finding fulfillment in a different professional environment.
• Exploration of Lindsay’s journey from teacher to corporate trainer
• Discussion on feelings of unfulfillment and burnout in teaching
• Insights into the transition to corporate training and adult learning
• Highlighting transferable skills from teaching to corporate settings
• Overcoming imposter syndrome and self-advocacy during career changes
• Importance of recognizing professionalism and value in new roles
• Reflection on the necessity for teachers to feel supported and valued
• Encouragement for educators to pursue paths that align with their happiness and purpose
Lindsay has a Master's Degree in Education, Curriculum and Instruction, and taught first grade for 10 years in both the US and Europe. Throughout her career, Lindsay created and facilitated professional development and coaching sessions on classroom management, behavior interventions, inquiry-based learning and effective workshop strategies for K-5 classrooms. She also worked for an educational company where she led virtual workshops for educators and educational leaders across the US. These experiences ignited Lindsay’s passion for adult learning, leading her to transition out of the classroom and into corporate training. She is now a Training Manager for a financial services company.
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services, forward-thinking educator support.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
For this week's episode.
Our guest joining us is LindsayDurkin.
Lindsay is a former teacher nowworking as a training manager.
She shares her reflections withus about what it's like to
transition out of education andwhat the similarities and
differences are between herroles.
Lindsay has a master's degreein education curriculum and
(00:55):
instruction and taught firstgrade for 10 years in both the
US and Europe.
Throughout her career, lindsaycreated and facilitated
professional development andcoaching sessions on classroom
management, behaviorinterventions, inquiry-based
learning and effective workshopstrategies for K-5 classrooms.
She also worked for aneducational company where she
led virtual workshops foreducators and educational
(01:17):
leaders across the US.
These experiences ignitedLindsay's passion for adult
learning, leading her totransition out of the classroom
and into corporate training.
She is now a training managerfor a financial services company
.
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Minimalist
Educator podcast.
(01:38):
I'm here with Tammy and LindsayDurkin today.
Welcome, guys.
How are you both Doing?
Well, thanks.
How are you?
I'm good.
What about you, tammy?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I'm doing well also.
I was going to say well as well, but I feel like that's weird.
But yeah, no, things are good.
Yes, how are you Christine?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm good, I'm excited to see Lindsay.
It's been a while since I'veseen her lovely face, so it's
good to have a chat which leadsus straight into it.
Lindsay is my ex-colleague, wasa teacher for a full decade,
weren't you, lindsay?
I made it to the decade, madeit to the decade.
Yeah, she, you know, got hermaster's.
(02:21):
She was, you know, got hermaster's.
She was, you know, offering pdfor teachers.
She worked in different places,including overseas, different
roles at school, um, buteventually made the decision to
to leave school and leaveteaching as a classroom teacher
still in education in in somemanner these days, but um, yes,
(02:45):
but yeah, leaving the classroomand so we really wanted to get
her in and have a little chatabout that process, um, but also
about life on the other side.
What is it like out there?
So maybe you could tell us alittle bit about your, your
journey with teaching and andwhy you decided to make the move
away teaching and why youdecided to make the move away,
(03:08):
absolutely yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
So I mean, I was definitely one of those people
who went into teaching thinkingthat was the forever job for me.
I loved it so much in thebeginning, taught first grade
for most of my career, taughtkindergarten my first year,
loved that adventure.
And then was in first grade andloved it for a really long time
.
And then was in first grade andloved it for a really long time
and towards the end I justwasn't feeling as fulfilled
(03:41):
anymore and was finding that itwas really hard to get to work
and was having a lot still dosomething that I love, which is
teaching, but just in adifferent way or maybe with a
different audience.
And so I started kind ofthroughout my career was finding
myself doing professionaldevelopment for teachers and
really loved that.
And then, probably the last twoyears of my teaching career
(04:16):
started looking, you know, onLinkedIn and just kind of
looking at what my options wouldbe if I left the classroom and
found a company called BetterLesson and they are fully remote
and they offer professionaldevelopment workshops and
training and like one-on-onecoaching for teachers and
educators and educationalleaders across the US, and so I
actually got a job working withthem while I was still classroom
teaching and I loved it.
It was.
I just instantly was like thisis this, is it, this is what I
want to do, Cause I could stillteach but was now really
(04:38):
transitioning into that adultlearning space.
And then that's ultimately whatkind of gave me, I think, the
confidence and just the boost Ineeded.
To be like this is a good fit.
This is something that I seemyself in and just had so many
transferable skills to just moveright into that and so decided
(04:59):
to leave the classroom and takea huge leap of faith and join an
industry that I had noknowledge working in at the
financial services industry andgot myself into corporate
training.
And now I'm a training managerand it's great because it's a
lot of the same things I wasdoing with teaching.
(05:20):
I get to facilitate, I get tocreate content on just a bigger
scale and in a very, verydifferent way.
The corporate world is verydifferent than our teaching
world, but it's been reallygreat.
It's been over two and a halfyears now.
I'm really happy in it.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I have so many questions I don't even know
where to start.
Okay, so I'll back up a littlebit.
Baby, so you had mentioned,when you were teaching, the
Sunday Scaries, but they werehappening like every day.
Can you pinpoint because I knowthis is very relatable for
(05:59):
people in their roles Can youkind of pinpoint the, the cause
of that, or was it just kind oflike everything?
Yeah, so kind of talk usthrough that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Sorry if it brings up a stress stressing no, no, I
appreciate that, though For meit was kind of a slow I want to
say slow burn, and maybe it islike I didn't feel burnt out at
the end, so I don't want to usethat, but it just over time I
kept catching myself thinkingdifferently than I did before.
(06:33):
So, for example, when before Iwent overseas to teach, I was
kind of just feeling like I needto shake things up a little bit
.
Maybe I need to change gradelevels or maybe move somewhere
else.
Maybe that'll help.
And so then I moved overseas.
It didn't help, right, becauseit's the same, it's kind of the
same thing.
And then the next thing I canreally remember and pinpoint was
(06:58):
I have always had a really goodclassroom management and I
always felt very confident inthat and my skills there, and I
started to feel like I waslosing that a little bit, like I
was getting really easilyfrustrated, whereas before I was
super patient and I wouldn'tlet those things phase me.
And so it was just littlethings like that that I was like
am I, am I not doing thosethings because I don't like it
(07:19):
anymore, or is the environmentI'm in changing in a way that I
now maybe don't fit in that.
And then really, the final kindof catalyst was in my last year
of teaching.
I would feel so overwhelmed with, you know, the little kids
(07:40):
they're always saying your name5,000 times and just so much
energy in that room, whereasbefore, like I would harness
that energy, I lived for that.
I was like, oh, this is sogreat, we're doing workshops,
everybody's doing differentthings, and I just felt really
overwhelmed by the energy andlike that constant energy, and I
didn't feel like I could everescape that.
(08:00):
And so that was definitelywhere I was like I need, I need
to change this, because I'm nowgoing to eventually react in a
way that's not beneficial forthe kids.
Right, it's not fair if I'm notshowing up every day giving
them what they need, or beingable to give them what they need
, like it's not their fault,right, it's, it's me reacting to
it.
So those are really kind of thebig things where I'm like I
(08:22):
need changing a grade level isnot going to change.
I think I need to remove myselffrom this environment and find
something new yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I remember.
I remember having thoseconversations with you when we
went next door to each other,where, where you were, like I
thought it would be different inanother country.
But here we are, we got thesame things going on and it's
yeah, it's so true, isn't it?
Those sort of systemic issuesand so on are just, yeah,
they're prevalent everywhere.
It doesn't matter where you go,we have the same sort of themes
(08:54):
coming up all the time for sure.
So tell us a little.
I mean, obviously you know youcan go to the bathroom whenever
you want.
That's a huge upside, but likeit's amazing, you guys.
But what are some other thingsthat are, you know, would blow
teachers minds about what youcan do when you're not in that
school setting?
Speaker 4 (09:15):
yeah it, it's definitely for me personally.
I'm sure other people may havedifferent experiences, but the
grass is the greenest it's everbeen.
On the other side, like it'snot just green, it is thriving.
So, aside from definitely thefinancial benefits, that was
something that pretty quickly Iwas like, oh okay, like this is
(09:39):
great, and just little things,like really feeling valued as a
professional and not questionedas often as we do, I think, as
teachers.
But the mind blowing things andthe things I will never take for
granted as long as I'm in inthis corporate industry now is
you guys, when I'm sick or I'mgetting on PTO, you know what I
(10:01):
don't have to write Sub plans.
There are no sub plans.
I'm just not here today, I'mjust not here this week, like
here's somebody you can reachout to though if you have any
questions while I'm gone.
Just not having to do the subplans I think is is a game
changer coming from fromteaching.
But aside from all that, just Iremember the first day I
(10:26):
started because I'm fully remote, was just how at ease I felt.
I didn't anxious, even at thetimes where work is really
stressful.
At the end of the day, it'struly just like okay, I'm just
going to close my laptop andit's there tomorrow, like I
don't need to spend all nightthinking about it.
And it's just been such a gamechanger for my mental health,
(10:50):
physical health, just emotionalhealth, and yeah, it's been
physical health just emotionalhealth and yeah, it's been.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's been pretty life-changing for me personally.
That's so profound, just manyof those things that you said.
But like, yeah, the the great,one of the greatest sources of
stress is the sub plan.
Like you, just, you're justalmost like I should just go in,
cause I don't want to writethis thing because you never,
get to relax, right, yeah, andlike you're, you're not well and
(11:19):
you still have to, likementally, do this thing.
I'm wondering.
So now the shift with adults.
So all three of us have kind of, you know, gone through this
shift where you know we werefull-time teachers and now you
know, christine and I still workin school settings and are in,
(11:41):
you know, around kids and and,but we also work with adults at
the same time.
So in for you shifting over toa completely different industry.
What are some?
What are?
This is kind of maybe a weirdquestion, but like, what are the
similarities to, like teachingkindergartners and teaching
(12:01):
adults in like a differentindustry?
Because similarities.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Older similarities.
One of the questions I get themost is you know, was it a
really hard transition Teaching?
You know the teaching wise,going from first graders to
adults?
And I was like, no, no, no,that was.
It was probably the easiesttransition because there is so
much overlap, so a lot ofsimilarities, and I think this
(12:27):
is what's great for teachers whoare wanting to transition into
something else is we truly bringso much to the table?
You've been doing so many thingsthat will provide value and
impact in other industries andin other roles.
So, for example, teachers, Ithink we're highly organized.
That's something that you haveto be as teachers and in other
(12:50):
roles, but especially for me, inmy role being fully remote, you
have to be organized on atotally different level because
you know you're not able to justpop over to the classroom next
door and, you know, lay out allyour papers or calendars,
whatever you need.
So you have to be highlyorganized.
Communication for sure.
Even with children, we have toset very clear objectives and
(13:15):
expectations, and that is nodifferent with adults.
If anything, I find I am stillrepeating those expectations
quite often and holding peopleaccountable of.
Hey, we had this conversation.
This is what we talked about.
Here it is in writing or hereit is in this policy.
You know this was theexpectation.
(13:35):
Did you meet that expectation?
So, communication, definitelyorganization and just that
collaborative piece too, setthem up for success.
(13:57):
We create resources and wespend extra time working with
people and same with teachingadults.
Right, they still need thoseresources.
We still have to tap intodifferent learning styles.
Right, when I'm makingresources, I need to make some
hands-on e-learns for people.
I also need to make, maybe,video walkthroughs for people
who are really visual and I needto kind of walk you through it
myself and show you.
So so many things that aresimilar to what I was doing in
(14:19):
the classroom with first graders.
I think that really helped setme up for success with training
adults as well.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I was going to ask pretty much exactly that Like
what do you think of the skillsthat you get as a teacher?
That helps you.
But you've definitely coveredthat with the communication and
that social side and everything.
So I'm wondering is thereanything that would hold us back
, Something that is common withteachers, that would hold us
back into moving into otherfields?
(14:46):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
That's a really good question.
I think what would hold peopleback is first, not having the
confidence to take the leap inthe first place and having and
there was definitely moments andI say moments, but it was
probably the first, maybe sixmonths in my role where imposter
syndrome was alive and well, Iknew that I was a teacher.
(15:07):
Other people in the companydidn't know I used to be a
teacher, right, they didn't knowthat was my first corporate job
, but it lived freely in mybrain that thinking, oh well,
everybody just thinks I'm ateacher, right, and it's so
getting past that of like, yes,I was a teacher, but I was a
really good teacher, right, likeso knowing and believing that
in yourself of hey, I did thatreally well for a long time,
(15:29):
here's how I can provide valuein this company here.
And kind of switching from Iwas a teacher too, I spent 10
years of learning anddevelopment, right, that's what
a lot of companies are lookingfor are people who can really
easily assess gaps in learningand then develop solutions for
that.
And so I think, kind ofchanging your mindset of, first
(15:51):
of all, I can do this, I bring alot to the table, but then also
being able to put in the work.
It was not an easy transition.
I had to have a lot of justconversations with myself and
others of hey, here's what myresume looks like, and have
people be like this doesn't tellme anything, because in
teaching we tend to add a lot offluff, and that's something
(16:13):
that needs to be removed,especially when you're in the
corporate world of.
You need to be very clear andhave very clearly defined
outcomes, objectives, and thatstarts very early on with your
resume, and it has to show data,has to show impact.
You have to have numbers, andsometimes that's hard for us
because we're like oh, but I,you know, I provided
(16:34):
interventions.
That doesn't mean a lot topeople who are doing that or
have never done that.
So I think those can beroadblocks.
But if you go into it with areally open mind and you're
really serious about it andyou're very clear about what you
want to do, I think that'ssomething that can also trip up
people who want to transitionout, as they don't know what you
(16:55):
want to do.
I think that's something thatcan also trip up people who want
to transition out is they don'tknow what they want to do and
so they apply for you know five,10, 15 different kinds of roles
and expect someone to give thema chance.
Nobody owes you a chance andthere's thousands of other
teachers with the exact sameresume as you.
So how do you stand out?
And I know people say, well,once I get to the interview, but
(17:20):
you might not.
How do you get yourself to thatinterview?
So it's a lot of kind of toughconversations up front, just
with yourself and knowing whereyour own areas of opportunity
are.
And for me it started with theresume like Ooh, okay, well,
this is fluffy A.
What does that mean?
What do I need to get rid of?
And can I see an example?
And then just going, going fromthere.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And that's such a good reminder because I think
you know, as teachers too, wekind of we can be collectors.
And what we're saying is justlike right, like collectors of
the information and collectorsof the things that we've done.
Oh, I'm just going to add thisto my list of things I've done,
but it's like just not writtenin the way that speaks to the
(17:59):
people we needed to speak to.
So that's like such a goodreminder.
And just when you were talkingabout kind of this process and
like having that sort of ahamoment.
I certainly appreciate thatyou're talking about like your
confidence through the process,even though you had some of this
imposter syndrome right as youstarted.
(18:21):
But the importance of havingsome of that reflection time,
like what is it that's making menot want to do this thing
anymore, but make you know likeI need to shift.
And you mentioned earlier justone of the big changes that you
feel is like you're you're kindof treated as more of a
(18:43):
professional right it's.
It's a different industry.
You have a different level oftrust that you're just going to
do your job and you'll do itwell and you'll be there, and
when you're not there, it's okay.
How does that make you feel now, knowing that's how you can
feel in this role, versus maybeyou weren't feeling that before.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
It's amazing, honestly, and I think it just
helps when I am presented withchallenges, being able to remind
myself that I've I've made itthrough these other challenging
transitions right and if I cando that and I'm trusted in this
role, I can take on reallyanything else that's thrown at
me.
Um, and I think that'simportant for teachers to know
(19:29):
too, that you might not get whenI think about transitioning
teachers, a lot of people wantto go straight into ed tech like
, oh, I want to work for Lexi ora company that I've worked with
because I could be really goodat, like I can see worked with
because I could be really goodat it.
I can see myself doing that.
I could be really good at it.
I've used the software.
But you might not get thatopportunity.
So not saying no to For me.
(19:50):
I went into a completelydifferent industry and had to
ramp up and learn very quicklyall about something that I was
uncomfortable with.
It was a subject matter I wasnot an expert in.
I feel like I am now because Iallowed myself the time to get
there.
I asked questions and, like youwere saying, of just being open
(20:10):
with hey, this is an area ofopportunity for myself but also
then maybe outlining some stepsof how I'm going to get there.
So I think by just having thatauthenticity and being
vulnerable but then also beingable to show that I'm putting in
the there.
So I think by just having thatauthenticity and being
vulnerable but then also beingable to show that I'm putting in
the work to do this and now Ican do this really well, kind of
helps build your credibilityalong the way, and then you do
(20:31):
get more trust and as youcontinue to execute on the
things you need to do, I thinkit just helps the people that
you're working with know thatyou are somebody who they can
come to, not only just for asolution, but sometimes just as
a thought partner.
I'll have people send metraining decks sometimes and
they're like hey, can you justlook through this and let me
(20:53):
know what you think you know?
Or kind of add, add that L andD, twist to it, um, and I think
over time that's those are thethings too that will definitely
help with the confidence andjust help more people within the
organization trust you as well,because a lot of it's word of
mouth of hey, that was a greattraining deck or hey, that was
really great.
You know where, where did youcome up with that?
(21:14):
Like, oh, lindsay helped mebuild that out, or Lindsay built
this, and now I'm going to getyou know other people coming to
me asking for help with variousthings.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Very cool, very cool.
So, looking back at your timeas a teacher, is there any like
advice that you would have givenyourself, or you're very happy
with the path and everythingthat happened?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Honestly, I look back on it so fond and I think
that's how I know that I left atthe right time, because had I
stayed, I would have beenmiserable and it could have
ended in a really dark way.
No-transcript want to haveregrets or I wish I could have
(22:29):
done this differently or that,but it's so true that everything
that you've gone through youwent through for a reason and
it's just helped make you whoyou are today, so I don't think
I'd do anything differently makeyou who you are today, so I
don't think I'd do anythingdifferently.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
That's a great feeling to have, honestly,
because we know that a lot ofteachers just like think they
have to stick it out becausechange is hard.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
It is.
And, yeah, you don't have tofeel bad for leaving and you
don't have to feel bad for like,hey, this actually isn't, isn't
what it used to be, causeespecially right now, after
COVID too, so much has changedand that's okay to be.
Like, you know what I?
I've given so much to thisprofession and to this role and
it's just not.
It's not serving me anymore andso I need to find something
(23:13):
else.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, I think there's a level of guilt that comes
with that right For a hundredpercent, yeah, and it's hard to
navigate through that.
So mean I can see why.
You know some.
I've known teachers andprincipals who are like I just
have seven more years and I'mlike can you just hear?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
your song.
It's so long.
Life is too short.
Yeah, life is way too short todo something that you're unhappy
with.
Take the risk, risk.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, do it.
Yeah, it's usually worth it.
It's a good learning experience.
It has been like, where doesthe time go?
But this is what I know.
It flew by, flew by, but at theend of our episodes we always
ask our guests for a pare downpointer.
So it could be from likesomething you know that you've
(24:01):
learned in your new role, whereyou're like oh, this is like a
go-to strategy that I use forthis, or could have been
something from teaching.
So what do you want to sharewith our listeners?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
I can actually share something that serves me every
day in my current role.
But, looking at it, it'ssomething that we actually do in
teaching constantly.
Maybe we don't know it or not,but it would just be to ask
yourself the question what arewe solving for?
So when I get pinged for, hey,I want to build out this
training for my team Great, whatare we solving for?
(24:35):
I have to know where we need toend up in order to and it
reminds me of backwards planningand education I need to know
what the end goal is before Ican kind of think backwards of
what are the resources and toolsand activities and how am I
going to scaffold the learningin order to get there.
So that would be still one ofthe things that was big for me
(24:56):
in teaching, and still is, ofjust understanding what we're
solving for and just having veryclearly defined outcomes,
objectives and, of course,deadlines.
Deadlines are huge in thecorporate world.
We love a deadline.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Oh, my goodness, that's awesome.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with us today,
lindsay.
I think that's going to bereally insightful for lots and
lots of people.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Absolutely Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
For this week's episode.
Our guest joining us is LindsayDurkin.
Lindsay is a former teacher nowworking as a training manager.
She shares her reflections withus about what it's like to
transition out of education andwhat the similarities and
differences are between herroles.
Lindsay has a master's degreein education curriculum and
(00:55):
instruction and taught firstgrade for 10 years in both the
US and Europe.
Throughout her career, lindsaycreated and facilitated
professional development andcoaching sessions on classroom
management, behaviorinterventions, inquiry-based
learning and effective workshopstrategies for K-5 classrooms.
She also worked for aneducational company where she
led virtual workshops foreducators and educational
(01:17):
leaders across the US.
These experiences ignitedLindsay's passion for adult
learning, leading her totransition out of the classroom
and into corporate training.
She is now a training managerfor a financial services company
.
Hello and welcome to today'sepisode of the Minimalist
Educator podcast.
(01:38):
I'm here with Tammy and LindsayDurkin today.
Welcome, guys.
How are you both Doing?
Well, thanks.
How are you?
I'm good.
What about you, tammy?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I'm doing well also.
I was going to say well as well, but I feel like that's weird.
But yeah, no, things are good.
Yes, how are you Christine?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm good, I'm excited to see Lindsay.
It's been a while since I'veseen her lovely face, so it's
good to have a chat which leadsus straight into it.
Lindsay is my ex-colleague, wasa teacher for a full decade,
weren't you, lindsay?
I made it to the decade, madeit to the decade.
Yeah, she, you know, got hermaster's.
(02:21):
She was, you know, got hermaster's.
She was, you know, offering pdfor teachers.
She worked in different places,including overseas, different
roles at school, um, buteventually made the decision to
to leave school and leaveteaching as a classroom teacher
still in education in in somemanner these days, but um, yes,
(02:45):
but yeah, leaving the classroomand so we really wanted to get
her in and have a little chatabout that process, um, but also
about life on the other side.
What is it like out there?
So maybe you could tell us alittle bit about your, your
journey with teaching and andwhy you decided to make the move
away teaching and why youdecided to make the move away,
(03:08):
absolutely yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
So I mean, I was definitely one of those people
who went into teaching thinkingthat was the forever job for me.
I loved it so much in thebeginning, taught first grade
for most of my career, taughtkindergarten my first year,
loved that adventure.
And then was in first grade andloved it for a really long time
.
And then was in first grade andloved it for a really long time
and towards the end I justwasn't feeling as fulfilled
(03:41):
anymore and was finding that itwas really hard to get to work
and was having a lot still dosomething that I love, which is
teaching, but just in adifferent way or maybe with a
different audience.
And so I started kind ofthroughout my career was finding
myself doing professionaldevelopment for teachers and
really loved that.
And then, probably the last twoyears of my teaching career
(04:16):
started looking, you know, onLinkedIn and just kind of
looking at what my options wouldbe if I left the classroom and
found a company called BetterLesson and they are fully remote
and they offer professionaldevelopment workshops and
training and like one-on-onecoaching for teachers and
educators and educationalleaders across the US, and so I
actually got a job working withthem while I was still classroom
teaching and I loved it.
It was.
I just instantly was like thisis this, is it, this is what I
want to do, Cause I could stillteach but was now really
(04:38):
transitioning into that adultlearning space.
And then that's ultimately whatkind of gave me, I think, the
confidence and just the boost Ineeded.
To be like this is a good fit.
This is something that I seemyself in and just had so many
transferable skills to just moveright into that and so decided
(04:59):
to leave the classroom and takea huge leap of faith and join an
industry that I had noknowledge working in at the
financial services industry andgot myself into corporate
training.
And now I'm a training managerand it's great because it's a
lot of the same things I wasdoing with teaching.
(05:20):
I get to facilitate, I get tocreate content on just a bigger
scale and in a very, verydifferent way.
The corporate world is verydifferent than our teaching
world, but it's been reallygreat.
It's been over two and a halfyears now.
I'm really happy in it.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I have so many questions I don't even know
where to start.
Okay, so I'll back up a littlebit.
Baby, so you had mentioned,when you were teaching, the
Sunday Scaries, but they werehappening like every day.
Can you pinpoint because I knowthis is very relatable for
(05:59):
people in their roles Can youkind of pinpoint the, the cause
of that, or was it just kind oflike everything?
Yeah, so kind of talk usthrough that a little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Sorry if it brings up a stress stressing no, no, I
appreciate that, though For meit was kind of a slow I want to
say slow burn, and maybe it islike I didn't feel burnt out at
the end, so I don't want to usethat, but it just over time I
kept catching myself thinkingdifferently than I did before.
(06:33):
So, for example, when before Iwent overseas to teach, I was
kind of just feeling like I needto shake things up a little bit
.
Maybe I need to change gradelevels or maybe move somewhere
else.
Maybe that'll help.
And so then I moved overseas.
It didn't help, right, becauseit's the same, it's kind of the
same thing.
And then the next thing I canreally remember and pinpoint was
(06:58):
I have always had a really goodclassroom management and I
always felt very confident inthat and my skills there, and I
started to feel like I waslosing that a little bit, like I
was getting really easilyfrustrated, whereas before I was
super patient and I wouldn'tlet those things phase me.
And so it was just littlethings like that that I was like
am I, am I not doing thosethings because I don't like it
(07:19):
anymore, or is the environmentI'm in changing in a way that I
now maybe don't fit in that.
And then really, the final kindof catalyst was in my last year
of teaching.
I would feel so overwhelmed with, you know, the little kids
(07:40):
they're always saying your name5,000 times and just so much
energy in that room, whereasbefore, like I would harness
that energy, I lived for that.
I was like, oh, this is sogreat, we're doing workshops,
everybody's doing differentthings, and I just felt really
overwhelmed by the energy andlike that constant energy, and I
didn't feel like I could everescape that.
(08:00):
And so that was definitelywhere I was like I need, I need
to change this, because I'm nowgoing to eventually react in a
way that's not beneficial forthe kids.
Right, it's not fair if I'm notshowing up every day giving
them what they need, or beingable to give them what they need
, like it's not their fault,right, it's, it's me reacting to
it.
So those are really kind of thebig things where I'm like I
(08:22):
need changing a grade level isnot going to change.
I think I need to remove myselffrom this environment and find
something new yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I remember.
I remember having thoseconversations with you when we
went next door to each other,where, where you were, like I
thought it would be different inanother country.
But here we are, we got thesame things going on and it's
yeah, it's so true, isn't it?
Those sort of systemic issuesand so on are just, yeah,
they're prevalent everywhere.
It doesn't matter where you go,we have the same sort of themes
(08:54):
coming up all the time for sure.
So tell us a little.
I mean, obviously you know youcan go to the bathroom whenever
you want.
That's a huge upside, but likeit's amazing, you guys.
But what are some other thingsthat are, you know, would blow
teachers minds about what youcan do when you're not in that
school setting?
Speaker 4 (09:15):
yeah it, it's definitely for me personally.
I'm sure other people may havedifferent experiences, but the
grass is the greenest it's everbeen.
On the other side, like it'snot just green, it is thriving.
So, aside from definitely thefinancial benefits, that was
something that pretty quickly Iwas like, oh okay, like this is
(09:39):
great, and just little things,like really feeling valued as a
professional and not questionedas often as we do, I think, as
teachers.
But the mind blowing things andthe things I will never take for
granted as long as I'm in inthis corporate industry now is
you guys, when I'm sick or I'mgetting on PTO, you know what I
(10:01):
don't have to write Sub plans.
There are no sub plans.
I'm just not here today, I'mjust not here this week, like
here's somebody you can reachout to though if you have any
questions while I'm gone.
Just not having to do the subplans I think is is a game
changer coming from fromteaching.
But aside from all that, just Iremember the first day I
(10:26):
started because I'm fully remote, was just how at ease I felt.
I didn't anxious, even at thetimes where work is really
stressful.
At the end of the day, it'struly just like okay, I'm just
going to close my laptop andit's there tomorrow, like I
don't need to spend all nightthinking about it.
And it's just been such a gamechanger for my mental health,
(10:50):
physical health, just emotionalhealth, and yeah, it's been
physical health just emotionalhealth and yeah, it's been.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's been pretty life-changing for me personally.
That's so profound, just manyof those things that you said.
But like, yeah, the the great,one of the greatest sources of
stress is the sub plan.
Like you, just, you're justalmost like I should just go in,
cause I don't want to writethis thing because you never,
get to relax, right, yeah, andlike you're, you're not well and
(11:19):
you still have to, likementally, do this thing.
I'm wondering.
So now the shift with adults.
So all three of us have kind of, you know, gone through this
shift where you know we werefull-time teachers and now you
know, christine and I still workin school settings and are in,
(11:41):
you know, around kids and and,but we also work with adults at
the same time.
So in for you shifting over toa completely different industry.
What are some?
What are?
This is kind of maybe a weirdquestion, but like, what are the
similarities to, like teachingkindergartners and teaching
(12:01):
adults in like a differentindustry?
Because similarities.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Older similarities.
One of the questions I get themost is you know, was it a
really hard transition Teaching?
You know the teaching wise,going from first graders to
adults?
And I was like, no, no, no,that was.
It was probably the easiesttransition because there is so
much overlap, so a lot ofsimilarities, and I think this
(12:27):
is what's great for teachers whoare wanting to transition into
something else is we truly bringso much to the table?
You've been doing so many thingsthat will provide value and
impact in other industries andin other roles.
So, for example, teachers, Ithink we're highly organized.
That's something that you haveto be as teachers and in other
(12:50):
roles, but especially for me, inmy role being fully remote, you
have to be organized on atotally different level because
you know you're not able to justpop over to the classroom next
door and, you know, lay out allyour papers or calendars,
whatever you need.
So you have to be highlyorganized.
Communication for sure.
Even with children, we have toset very clear objectives and
(13:15):
expectations, and that is nodifferent with adults.
If anything, I find I am stillrepeating those expectations
quite often and holding peopleaccountable of.
Hey, we had this conversation.
This is what we talked about.
Here it is in writing or hereit is in this policy.
You know this was theexpectation.
(13:35):
Did you meet that expectation?
So, communication, definitelyorganization and just that
collaborative piece too, setthem up for success.
(13:57):
We create resources and wespend extra time working with
people and same with teachingadults.
Right, they still need thoseresources.
We still have to tap intodifferent learning styles.
Right, when I'm makingresources, I need to make some
hands-on e-learns for people.
I also need to make, maybe,video walkthroughs for people
who are really visual and I needto kind of walk you through it
myself and show you.
So so many things that aresimilar to what I was doing in
(14:19):
the classroom with first graders.
I think that really helped setme up for success with training
adults as well.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I was going to ask pretty much exactly that Like
what do you think of the skillsthat you get as a teacher?
That helps you.
But you've definitely coveredthat with the communication and
that social side and everything.
So I'm wondering is thereanything that would hold us back
, Something that is common withteachers, that would hold us
back into moving into otherfields?
(14:46):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
That's a really good question.
I think what would hold peopleback is first, not having the
confidence to take the leap inthe first place and having and
there was definitely moments andI say moments, but it was
probably the first, maybe sixmonths in my role where imposter
syndrome was alive and well, Iknew that I was a teacher.
(15:07):
Other people in the companydidn't know I used to be a
teacher, right, they didn't knowthat was my first corporate job
, but it lived freely in mybrain that thinking, oh well,
everybody just thinks I'm ateacher, right, and it's so
getting past that of like, yes,I was a teacher, but I was a
really good teacher, right, likeso knowing and believing that
in yourself of hey, I did thatreally well for a long time,
(15:29):
here's how I can provide valuein this company here.
And kind of switching from Iwas a teacher too, I spent 10
years of learning anddevelopment, right, that's what
a lot of companies are lookingfor are people who can really
easily assess gaps in learningand then develop solutions for
that.
And so I think, kind ofchanging your mindset of, first
(15:51):
of all, I can do this, I bring alot to the table, but then also
being able to put in the work.
It was not an easy transition.
I had to have a lot of justconversations with myself and
others of hey, here's what myresume looks like, and have
people be like this doesn't tellme anything, because in
teaching we tend to add a lot offluff, and that's something
(16:13):
that needs to be removed,especially when you're in the
corporate world of.
You need to be very clear andhave very clearly defined
outcomes, objectives, and thatstarts very early on with your
resume, and it has to show data,has to show impact.
You have to have numbers, andsometimes that's hard for us
because we're like oh, but I,you know, I provided
(16:34):
interventions.
That doesn't mean a lot topeople who are doing that or
have never done that.
So I think those can beroadblocks.
But if you go into it with areally open mind and you're
really serious about it andyou're very clear about what you
want to do, I think that'ssomething that can also trip up
people who want to transitionout, as they don't know what you
(16:55):
want to do.
I think that's something thatcan also trip up people who want
to transition out is they don'tknow what they want to do and
so they apply for you know five,10, 15 different kinds of roles
and expect someone to give thema chance.
Nobody owes you a chance andthere's thousands of other
teachers with the exact sameresume as you.
So how do you stand out?
And I know people say, well,once I get to the interview, but
(17:20):
you might not.
How do you get yourself to thatinterview?
So it's a lot of kind of toughconversations up front, just
with yourself and knowing whereyour own areas of opportunity
are.
And for me it started with theresume like Ooh, okay, well,
this is fluffy A.
What does that mean?
What do I need to get rid of?
And can I see an example?
And then just going, going fromthere.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And that's such a good reminder because I think
you know, as teachers too, wekind of we can be collectors.
And what we're saying is justlike right, like collectors of
the information and collectorsof the things that we've done.
Oh, I'm just going to add thisto my list of things I've done,
but it's like just not writtenin the way that speaks to the
(17:59):
people we needed to speak to.
So that's like such a goodreminder.
And just when you were talkingabout kind of this process and
like having that sort of ahamoment.
I certainly appreciate thatyou're talking about like your
confidence through the process,even though you had some of this
imposter syndrome right as youstarted.
(18:21):
But the importance of havingsome of that reflection time,
like what is it that's making menot want to do this thing
anymore, but make you know likeI need to shift.
And you mentioned earlier justone of the big changes that you
feel is like you're you're kindof treated as more of a
(18:43):
professional right it's.
It's a different industry.
You have a different level oftrust that you're just going to
do your job and you'll do itwell and you'll be there, and
when you're not there, it's okay.
How does that make you feel now, knowing that's how you can
feel in this role, versus maybeyou weren't feeling that before.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
It's amazing, honestly, and I think it just
helps when I am presented withchallenges, being able to remind
myself that I've I've made itthrough these other challenging
transitions right and if I cando that and I'm trusted in this
role, I can take on reallyanything else that's thrown at
me.
Um, and I think that'simportant for teachers to know
(19:29):
too, that you might not get whenI think about transitioning
teachers, a lot of people wantto go straight into ed tech like
, oh, I want to work for Lexi ora company that I've worked with
because I could be really goodat, like I can see worked with
because I could be really goodat it.
I can see myself doing that.
I could be really good at it.
I've used the software.
But you might not get thatopportunity.
So not saying no to For me.
(19:50):
I went into a completelydifferent industry and had to
ramp up and learn very quicklyall about something that I was
uncomfortable with.
It was a subject matter I wasnot an expert in.
I feel like I am now because Iallowed myself the time to get
there.
I asked questions and, like youwere saying, of just being open
(20:10):
with hey, this is an area ofopportunity for myself but also
then maybe outlining some stepsof how I'm going to get there.
So I think by just having thatauthenticity and being
vulnerable but then also beingable to show that I'm putting in
the there.
So I think by just having thatauthenticity and being
vulnerable but then also beingable to show that I'm putting in
the work to do this and now Ican do this really well, kind of
helps build your credibilityalong the way, and then you do
(20:31):
get more trust and as youcontinue to execute on the
things you need to do, I thinkit just helps the people that
you're working with know thatyou are somebody who they can
come to, not only just for asolution, but sometimes just as
a thought partner.
I'll have people send metraining decks sometimes and
they're like hey, can you justlook through this and let me
(20:53):
know what you think you know?
Or kind of add, add that L andD, twist to it, um, and I think
over time that's those are thethings too that will definitely
help with the confidence andjust help more people within the
organization trust you as well,because a lot of it's word of
mouth of hey, that was a greattraining deck or hey, that was
really great.
You know where, where did youcome up with that?
(21:14):
Like, oh, lindsay helped mebuild that out, or Lindsay built
this, and now I'm going to getyou know other people coming to
me asking for help with variousthings.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Very cool, very cool.
So, looking back at your timeas a teacher, is there any like
advice that you would have givenyourself, or you're very happy
with the path and everythingthat happened?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Honestly, I look back on it so fond and I think
that's how I know that I left atthe right time, because had I
stayed, I would have beenmiserable and it could have
ended in a really dark way.
No-transcript want to haveregrets or I wish I could have
(22:29):
done this differently or that,but it's so true that everything
that you've gone through youwent through for a reason and
it's just helped make you whoyou are today, so I don't think
I'd do anything differently makeyou who you are today, so I
don't think I'd do anythingdifferently.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
That's a great feeling to have, honestly,
because we know that a lot ofteachers just like think they
have to stick it out becausechange is hard.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
It is.
And, yeah, you don't have tofeel bad for leaving and you
don't have to feel bad for like,hey, this actually isn't, isn't
what it used to be, causeespecially right now, after
COVID too, so much has changedand that's okay to be.
Like, you know what I?
I've given so much to thisprofession and to this role and
it's just not.
It's not serving me anymore andso I need to find something
(23:13):
else.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, I think there's a level of guilt that comes
with that right For a hundredpercent, yeah, and it's hard to
navigate through that.
So mean I can see why.
You know some.
I've known teachers andprincipals who are like I just
have seven more years and I'mlike can you just hear?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
your song.
It's so long.
Life is too short.
Yeah, life is way too short todo something that you're unhappy
with.
Take the risk, risk.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, do it.
Yeah, it's usually worth it.
It's a good learning experience.
It has been like, where doesthe time go?
But this is what I know.
It flew by, flew by, but at theend of our episodes we always
ask our guests for a pare downpointer.
So it could be from likesomething you know that you've
(24:01):
learned in your new role, whereyou're like oh, this is like a
go-to strategy that I use forthis, or could have been
something from teaching.
So what do you want to sharewith our listeners?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
I can actually share something that serves me every
day in my current role.
But, looking at it, it'ssomething that we actually do in
teaching constantly.
Maybe we don't know it or not,but it would just be to ask
yourself the question what arewe solving for?
So when I get pinged for, hey,I want to build out this
training for my team Great, whatare we solving for?
(24:35):
I have to know where we need toend up in order to and it
reminds me of backwards planningand education I need to know
what the end goal is before Ican kind of think backwards of
what are the resources and toolsand activities and how am I
going to scaffold the learningin order to get there.
So that would be still one ofthe things that was big for me
(24:56):
in teaching, and still is, ofjust understanding what we're
solving for and just having veryclearly defined outcomes,
objectives and, of course,deadlines.
Deadlines are huge in thecorporate world.
We love a deadline.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Oh, my goodness, that's awesome.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with us today,
lindsay.
I think that's going to bereally insightful for lots and
lots of people.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Absolutely Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
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