April 22, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode of the Minimalist Educator Podcast, we connect with Fred Ende, the Director of Curriculum and Instructional Services at Putnam Northern Westchester BOCES. Fred shares his journey from a middle school science teacher to an educational leader, highlighting the importance of professional development tailored to meet the needs of teachers and students alike. Our conversation explores how minimalism can be a powerful tool in the classroom, addressing common challenges in K-12 education today and the importance of inclusivity and adaptability in teaching practices.
Fred emphasizes the need to prioritize listening and reflection, advocating for a thoughtful approach to educational challenges. He discusses exciting developments surrounding New York's graduation requirements, a much-needed shift towards more flexibility for student success. Fred's tasty pare down pointer reminds us that sometimes stepping back can lead to clearer paths forward.
If you're an educator looking to simplify your approach and enhance your students' learning experiences, this episode promises to be an enlightening listen! Be sure to subscribe and leave us your thoughts—in what ways do you find simplicity in your teaching?
Fred Ende is director of Curriculum and Instructional Services for the Putnam/Northern Westchester Board of Cooperative Educational Services (BOCES) where he is responsible for supporting and leading the development of curriculum, professional learning, and innovative educational initiatives, and is liaison to the New York State Education Department regarding curriculum and instruction requirements and regulations. He served in this same organization as the assistant director of Curriculum and Instructional Services as well as regional science coordinator and director of SCIENCE 21. Before that, he worked for 10 years as a middle school science teacher and department chair in Chappaqua, New York.
Contact Fred at http://www.fredende.com
Instragram: fred.ende
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fredende/
Fred's books:
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiewski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
On this week's episode we speak with Fred End
about commonalities withprofessional development needs
across different K-12 learningenvironments.
His pare-down pointer is taketime before reacting or
responding.
Fred End is Director ofCurriculum and Instructional
Services for the PartnumNorthern Westchester Board of
Cooperative Educational Services, where he is responsible for
(00:58):
supporting and leading thedevelopment of curriculum,
professional learning andinnovative educational
initiatives and is liaison tothe New York State Education
Department regarding curriculumand instruction requirements and
regulations.
He served in the sameorganization as the Assistant
Director of Curriculum andInstructional Services, as well
as Regional Science Coordinatorand Director of Science 21.
(01:19):
Before that, he worked for 10years as a middle school science
teacher and department chair inChippewa, new York.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of the Minimalist Educatorpodcast.
Today, christine and I aretalking with Fred Endy, who is
the Director of Curriculum andInstruction at the Putnam-BCES
in New York State.
Welcome, fred.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Thanks for having me.
Great to see you both.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I am super excited to have you on.
We've been trying to scheduleyou for quite some time, but you
are a busy fella, so we'll getinto some of this nitty gritty.
First, though, I think thatit's important for our guests to
know, kind of, where you'vecome from and how you got into
your role.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So thanks, yeah, and it's great to be here as well.
I am busy, and so I would saythat I have quite a bit to learn
, I think, from the two of youin terms of drilling my life
down to a more manageable space.
So how did I get here?
It's a loaded question, but Istarted my career teaching
(02:35):
middle school science in asuburb of New York City.
It was the perfect place for me.
My wife regularly says that Iact like a middle schooler, so
it was a great age range for meto teach and have had a love of
science since I was a child, andso I felt really connected to
(03:00):
helping like tweens and teenskind of connect with the science
in their lives.
And so as I progressed in mycareer and took on a number of
different in-school leadershiproles, I found that I really
enjoyed supporting the growth ofadult learners too, and so
(03:21):
moved into a regional role atour local BOCES.
For listeners outside of NewYork states, boces operates
basically as kind of like countyoffices and in that capacity we
help local districts in likesurrounding towns and cities
(03:44):
with any aspect of educationalsupport they need right, so that
can be special educationservices, career or polytechnic
support, and the area within ourorganization that I lead is
around providing support toteachers and leaders, other
educators, with curriculum,instruction and assessment needs
, and that's everything fromlike helping them build like
(04:07):
homegrown programs to likesussing out curricular resources
that they might want to use, toworking with consultants and
with districts and schools tobuild teacher capacity around
differentiation, like you nameit.
If it's a teaching and learningelement, I'm somehow, if not
(04:32):
involved like, have thepotential to be a part of that
work, and so it's a great, it'sa great place for me to be.
I've had the fortune ofspending like the 25 years of my
career in education in theteaching and learning space, so
first as a teacher for 10 years,then doing science work at a
(04:54):
regional level, and then overthe last 10 years being in more
of a kind of like overarchingumbrella role around curriculum,
instruction and assessment, andso during that time I have also
been fortunate enough to dosome writing to provide support
(05:15):
to districts through my BOCESand then other regional service
centers, because while we workwith districts we're not the
same as a school district, right, and really have enjoyed all
that work like within kind ofthe education space.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
I always think it takes a very special kind of
teacher to work in middle schooleverybody, everybody says that,
but it's actually such afantastic uh age range because I
think you're, you're at theinflection point between, like
um, learners accepting like yourword as what must be, and then
(06:03):
then also like from a teacherstandpoint, needing to
continually grow an approach tolike help students understand
kind of like their own, growinglike independence as learners
(06:26):
leaders.
So it's a super cool age range.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You should try it, I would say yeah, that's it so,
with your background in inmiddle school and and science as
well, but then you're findingyourself working with teachers
all different age ranges, alldifferent subject areas, whether
they're generalists orspecialists.
So what are some of the throughlines that are helpful when
(06:50):
you're working with this sort ofthing, no matter what kind of
field of education they're in?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, it's such a good question.
So I'd say, regardless of yourage range you're working with,
you know, young learner, oldlearner or older learner,
whatever your disciplinebackground is, you know,
specialized, more generalist thekey that I found is how do you,
(07:22):
how do you put the learning inthe hands of that learner?
Right, and that's.
That's everything, fromproviding students with the
voice and choice to make some ofthose learning decisions, to
making sure that you're in tunewith who students are as
individuals and they can seethemselves right and feel
(07:43):
themselves in the teaching andlearning that's taking place.
To understanding, like thehistory of given communities
right.
Schools and districts, theculture that exists within a
given school system right.
(08:04):
And both being aware of that aswell as constantly trying to
change it to be as inclusive aspossible right.
And that it doesn't matterwhether you're working with
five-year-olds or 50-year-oldsright.
Those needs still exist.
(08:26):
They may present themselvesdifferently, but I think those
connective practices are hugeright.
And if in education, yes, butany people facing profession
like so medicine, certainly,profession like so medicine,
(08:49):
certainly right is another greatexample If you don't have those
connective and relationalskills in place, then it doesn't
matter what your disciplineexperience is right.
It's going to be really, reallyhard for students to
successfully benefit from yourwork right, or what you bring as
(09:10):
an educator or person.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
You bring a lot to the people that you work with,
freddie.
You are like a master atreflection, I think, and
building relationships.
I know those are two of yourbiggest strengths.
How do you bring that, or whatdoes that look like when you are
(09:34):
trying to meet the needs ofteachers in districts?
Or you know a district's needs.
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I think there are a couple moves I tend to try and
make in working with people.
One is to be as active andintentional a listener as
possible and to try and quietthe voice in my head.
That instinct like makes mewant to respond with right, just
(10:05):
because I I'm curious about somany things and I love engaging
with people and I have to likequiet it down.
A?
Um, an amazing um mentor who Ium, who I still uh see
frequently, she had taught meonce that one of the best things
(10:26):
that you can do, right if youfeel yourself getting into that
space where your mind is tooactive and you're not really
listening to people you'respeaking with, was to write down
on, like a little piece ofpaper, something that you can
visit visually, connect withlike the words don't talk right
(10:49):
and like force yourself to payattention to that so that you're
you're really focusing in onwhat the other person or people
are uh are saying and that uh.
That can be hard for me,because when I think of um like
(11:11):
a, a tool like Myers-Briggsright To determine uh some of
like the elements that areimportant to you, I tend to be
uh on like the ends of that um,be on like the ends of that,
extroverted and also judging,right?
I'm an ENTJ, right soextroverted and judging, and for
(11:32):
those EJs it's really tough tonot speak Like it is so hard to
do right.
So but listening with intentand really actively engaging in
what people are saying is onekey component.
The other piece that I would sayI'm a huge fan of, kim Scott's
Radical Candor, you know.
(11:54):
The idea is simply that we gainmore from being open and honest
with, like love and care forpeople than we do with playing
like nicey, nice all the time,right Like you can still build
cultures of care and also beopen and upfront with people in
(12:18):
a way that feels good for them,right so that tends to build
trust, it tends to encouragepeople to let things go a little
bit easier, and I thinkrelationships have to be built
on mutual trust as well as thisbelief that you can be open and
(12:45):
honest with the other person tohelp each other grow.
So those are like two things Itry to keep in mind.
Sometimes I do both of themmuch better than others, but I'd
say they're two foundationalelements that I try to employ
and use.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I was going to ask you a question next about how
you juggle all of the differentthings that you're doing, but
now you've got me thinking aboutthis radical candor.
You know, if you are in thisposition where you're working
with lots of differentparticipants in the system and
sometimes you know, people knowinformation, other people don't
know, or there's lots of thingsto juggle in that way.
(13:28):
So what is the role of candorand trust when you're juggling
those different voices and thedifferent needs of what people
need to know and hear?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, it's such a good question.
I think when I started mycareer, both as a teacher and
then also in the regional space,I was really focused on being
the pathway to an answer right.
So, whether it was a student oran adult, right, wanting to
(13:59):
know something I didn't want tosay I don't know, right, or live
in a space where I couldn't bethe answer provider, right, you
know, I, which was also like areally, on some level, like
(14:20):
selfish approach in terms ofthinking that I had to be the
one to to like, be that person,like how dare I even think that?
Right, it's just so right.
But at that point in my career,that's where I was, and so one
key piece that I think helps alot with that is not just the
(14:42):
openness and honesty of like notknowing which is important and
making it clear, but also beingthe person who then can use some
of my relational skills to makethose connections so people can
find the answer right, becausewe do more damage pretending to
(15:05):
know and sharing what might beerroneous information than we do
in not having the answer, buthelping people find the pathway
to getting at it Right, and sothat's, that's one piece.
On the other side, um there's.
(15:25):
There's the value of um peopleknowing that they can also come
to me for a really honestassessment of approaches,
planning or some work they wantto do with their teams.
They know that the response Iwill give will be one that is as
(16:00):
balanced and thoughtful aspossible and won't necessarily
be about me benefiting from theanswer.
When you asked Christine abouthow do you balance it, part of
it is not inserting yourselfinto whatever the work is right.
(16:26):
So I've gotten very good atproviding an assessment of
things and then connectingpeople and stepping back right,
because it is very hard and wereit not for my comfort with
saying no and being able to walkaway from things, I would
(16:47):
struggle even more with likeexecutive functioning than I do.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So I'm thinking now kind of some specifics now in
your region.
What are some needs that are,or have been at the surface of
the support that you're givingdistricts and schools?
So what seems to be kind of arethere some trends popping up or
(17:15):
is it like just different indifferent areas?
What's happening?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yeah, there's definitely some.
So one continued area of focushas been helping schools and
districts really think about howthey are structuring their
systems to be as inclusive aspossible for all students.
And that's inclusivity from allareas, right.
(17:43):
So race, gender, ethnicity,language, spoken, whether
students are, you know.
Whether students are, you knowSIFE students, right.
So students with interruptedformal education, right.
All of the being a place forall students to be successful,
(18:07):
which is, of course, such hardwork and probably the most
foundational thing that a schoolsystem can do, because
everything else kind of hingeson that.
Also, work around, how do youdesign support structures, right
?
That you know build off of workfrom response to intervention
(18:32):
and other approaches that aretruly multi-tiered.
So MTSS work, multi-tieredsystems of support are on the
minds of all schools anddistricts because, as you become
more inclusive in yourpractices, your approach to
meeting needs has to be muchmore focused and targeted.
(18:58):
And so creating these umbrellastructures where you can really
design interventions that happenin the classroom, where
everyone feels the positiveaccountability for doing that,
creating more targeted studentlevel groups and then building
(19:18):
out as needed, like one to onesupport, right.
And how do you, how do youcreate those, those models and
then, as wonderful as it is toteach and lead in New York state
, um, you know, new York is nota perfect state by any means, uh
, in its educational uhlandscape, and so one of the big
(19:41):
initiatives for our state overthe next five to six years will
be like a total evolution ofwhat the graduation process
looks like for students, right,and so, tammy and Christine,
there is like this at this point, centuries old kind of like
(20:02):
structure in New York Statewhere, in order to graduate, you
have to receive a certain scoreon a certain number of
assessments and if you don't,like, none shall pass.
Right, you are like, just right,you, you don't, you don't
graduate with like some smallexceptions.
(20:24):
Right, and these exams havebeen present for like ever since
, like the world was created onsome level.
So it's a really large shiftfor our state to be thinking
outside the box, and so stateslooking to adopt, yeah, portrait
of a graduate, rethink creditlike, rethink what it means to
(20:48):
show proficiency, to be agraduate, and so it's amazing,
really student focused work anduh like policies that I'm really
supportive of and want to helpour larger region move towards a
little bit of a crystal ballquestion for you.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Do you, who do you, who do you feel like is going to
have the biggest challenge withthat shift?
Is it going to be like theteachers?
Is it going to be the colleges?
Is it going to be parents?
Yeah, I'm wondering who's goingto battle the most with a huge
shift, a huge change like that.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It's such a good question.
I think that it's going to be aproductive challenge for
everyone, maybe for differentreasons, right?
So I think the and everyonewill stand to benefit.
Of course, the people who willstand to benefit most will be
the students, right, because somuch greater flexibility will be
(21:53):
provided and that flexibilityis also it's like a't move out
of and say like, oh, I wishthere was much more flexibility
(22:15):
and all that.
But, as we know, when peopleare given flexibility right,
sometimes they want to like goback into their boxes and, just
like you know, we want to likecomplain about being in the box,
but we don't want to leave thebox Right.
So I think it will be hard forteachers and leaders like myself
(22:35):
, included.
Certainly, I think Parents won'tfind it particularly difficult
in this state so long as twothings happen.
Difficult in this state, solong as two things happen.
The vast majority of parentsfeel that New York state
assessments do not do what theyshould do, right.
(22:57):
So that, I think, is a prettyand the continuum of like how
activated people get about thatis very different.
But I think most parents wouldbe like yeah, there are test
kids need to take, but not surewhat value they provide.
The other thing that I thinkparents will need to hear will
(23:19):
be that this is a move that willsupport their children's growth
in college and career.
Right, I think it will be toughfor institutes of higher
education because the structurefor most college level courses
(23:47):
continues to be sometimes moreboxy than what's happening in
K-12 education not all and noteverywhere, but you know,
post-secondary education willhave to shift too, so I think
(24:09):
it's.
I totally did not answer thequestion the way you wanted me
to.
I think it's going to be aproblem for everybody, but I
think it's a productivechallenge and the good thing is
that it's a challenge that willultimately really benefit New
York students.
So we can bemoan the process,but not what the outcome should
(24:31):
be right, because that's whyeverybody's in this profession
you want to make sure thatstudents have better
opportunities than we had whenwe were going through our
respective systems.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, and let's hope that.
You know this is a long process.
You said five to six years.
This is kind of the focus withthis shift and so hopefully, new
york state becomes, you know,maybe the catalyst or the model
for awesome yeah, to make thisshift.
So that would.
It'll be great to hear theupdates you know over time from
you, just to see, see and hearhow this unravels, and I just
(25:08):
Unravels is a good word too, Iwould.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I would say, and and Christine Tammy knows this
because you know she, she taughtin in the system in New York
for for a while right, but NewYork and maybe most states in
the U?
S are like this but New Yorkreally does believe, right, and
I I say this as New Yorker, so Iown it too New York really does
believe it is like the bestthing in all of existence, right
(25:34):
?
So wouldn't it be nice if theeducation system right like
continue to shift where, likepeople could believe that and
where there was actually someevidence, at least on the
education side, to like supportthat happening?
So to your point, tammy, yes,that would be amazing, right,
(25:54):
because as a native New Yorker,I could say like yeah, we are
the best, and actually point tosomething that was like trending
in that direction.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Exactly, and it's like not just a two year
initiative and then it's kickedout the door to try the next one
, Like you need the five to sixyears to see this real change.
So, yeah, this is going to beinteresting.
So we're going to wrap up ourepisode with you, Freddie.
Time flies when we're havinggood conversations and we always
(26:25):
ask our guests at the end of anepisode to offer a pare down
pointer.
Always ask our guests at theend of an episode to offer a
pare down pointer.
So just a quick tip or strategyfrom our conversation or
something else unrelated to whatwe talked about today, but just
something that our listenerscan take with them after the
episode.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, so I?
Um, when you said a pare downpointer, I thought of what has
been really helpful in mecollecting thoughts, being more
concise, sometimes be morebalanced in my approach, and so
one of the most helpful thingsthat I've done, anytime I'm
(27:06):
faced with something that seemslike really big or really
complicated, or if it's like anemail that I can't process
because of all of the potentialchallenges in it, is just give
myself I know it's so simple,right, and yet we don't always
(27:29):
do it Just give myself 24 hours,step away from whatever it is
and come back to it with a freshpair of eyes, and not always,
but the vast majority of timethe problem seems significantly
smaller and much simpler whenI've done that.
(27:53):
So, for what it's worth, asimple strategy that has saved
me a lot of time andoverthinking.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, no, that's perfect, I can attest to that.
Yeah, no, that's perfect, thatI can attest to that.
Just stepping away, clearingyour mind, not thinking about it
, can just make things so muchclearer and simpler.
Thank you so much, fred, forbeing with us today, my pleasure
.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at planzplson Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusiewski-Bornemann and
Christine Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
On this week's episode we speak with Fred End
about commonalities withprofessional development needs
across different K-12 learningenvironments.
His pare-down pointer is taketime before reacting or
responding.
Fred End is Director ofCurriculum and Instructional
Services for the PartnumNorthern Westchester Board of
Cooperative Educational Services, where he is responsible for
(00:58):
supporting and leading thedevelopment of curriculum,
professional learning andinnovative educational
initiatives and is liaison tothe New York State Education
Department regarding curriculumand instruction requirements and
regulations.
He served in the sameorganization as the Assistant
Director of Curriculum andInstructional Services, as well
as Regional Science Coordinatorand Director of Science 21.
(01:19):
Before that, he worked for 10years as a middle school science
teacher and department chair inChippewa, new York.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode
of the Minimalist Educatorpodcast.
Today, christine and I aretalking with Fred Endy, who is
the Director of Curriculum andInstruction at the Putnam-BCES
in New York State.
Welcome, fred.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Thanks for having me.
Great to see you both.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I am super excited to have you on.
We've been trying to scheduleyou for quite some time, but you
are a busy fella, so we'll getinto some of this nitty gritty.
First, though, I think thatit's important for our guests to
know, kind of, where you'vecome from and how you got into
your role.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So thanks, yeah, and it's great to be here as well.
I am busy, and so I would saythat I have quite a bit to learn
, I think, from the two of youin terms of drilling my life
down to a more manageable space.
So how did I get here?
It's a loaded question, but Istarted my career teaching
(02:35):
middle school science in asuburb of New York City.
It was the perfect place for me.
My wife regularly says that Iact like a middle schooler, so
it was a great age range for meto teach and have had a love of
science since I was a child, andso I felt really connected to
(03:00):
helping like tweens and teenskind of connect with the science
in their lives.
And so as I progressed in mycareer and took on a number of
different in-school leadershiproles, I found that I really
enjoyed supporting the growth ofadult learners too, and so
(03:21):
moved into a regional role atour local BOCES.
For listeners outside of NewYork states, boces operates
basically as kind of like countyoffices and in that capacity we
help local districts in likesurrounding towns and cities
(03:44):
with any aspect of educationalsupport they need right, so that
can be special educationservices, career or polytechnic
support, and the area within ourorganization that I lead is
around providing support toteachers and leaders, other
educators, with curriculum,instruction and assessment needs
, and that's everything fromlike helping them build like
(04:07):
homegrown programs to likesussing out curricular resources
that they might want to use, toworking with consultants and
with districts and schools tobuild teacher capacity around
differentiation, like you nameit.
If it's a teaching and learningelement, I'm somehow, if not
(04:32):
involved like, have thepotential to be a part of that
work, and so it's a great, it'sa great place for me to be.
I've had the fortune ofspending like the 25 years of my
career in education in theteaching and learning space, so
first as a teacher for 10 years,then doing science work at a
(04:54):
regional level, and then overthe last 10 years being in more
of a kind of like overarchingumbrella role around curriculum,
instruction and assessment, andso during that time I have also
been fortunate enough to dosome writing to provide support
(05:15):
to districts through my BOCESand then other regional service
centers, because while we workwith districts we're not the
same as a school district, right, and really have enjoyed all
that work like within kind ofthe education space.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
I always think it takes a very special kind of
teacher to work in middle schooleverybody, everybody says that,
but it's actually such afantastic uh age range because I
think you're, you're at theinflection point between, like
um, learners accepting like yourword as what must be, and then
(06:03):
then also like from a teacherstandpoint, needing to
continually grow an approach tolike help students understand
kind of like their own, growinglike independence as learners
(06:26):
leaders.
So it's a super cool age range.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You should try it, I would say yeah, that's it so,
with your background in inmiddle school and and science as
well, but then you're findingyourself working with teachers
all different age ranges, alldifferent subject areas, whether
they're generalists orspecialists.
So what are some of the throughlines that are helpful when
(06:50):
you're working with this sort ofthing, no matter what kind of
field of education they're in?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, it's such a good question.
So I'd say, regardless of yourage range you're working with,
you know, young learner, oldlearner or older learner,
whatever your disciplinebackground is, you know,
specialized, more generalist thekey that I found is how do you,
(07:22):
how do you put the learning inthe hands of that learner?
Right, and that's.
That's everything, fromproviding students with the
voice and choice to make some ofthose learning decisions, to
making sure that you're in tunewith who students are as
individuals and they can seethemselves right and feel
(07:43):
themselves in the teaching andlearning that's taking place.
To understanding, like thehistory of given communities
right.
Schools and districts, theculture that exists within a
given school system right.
(08:04):
And both being aware of that aswell as constantly trying to
change it to be as inclusive aspossible right.
And that it doesn't matterwhether you're working with
five-year-olds or 50-year-oldsright.
Those needs still exist.
(08:26):
They may present themselvesdifferently, but I think those
connective practices are hugeright.
And if in education, yes, butany people facing profession
like so medicine, certainly,profession like so medicine,
(08:49):
certainly right is another greatexample If you don't have those
connective and relationalskills in place, then it doesn't
matter what your disciplineexperience is right.
It's going to be really, reallyhard for students to
successfully benefit from yourwork right, or what you bring as
(09:10):
an educator or person.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
You bring a lot to the people that you work with,
freddie.
You are like a master atreflection, I think, and
building relationships.
I know those are two of yourbiggest strengths.
How do you bring that, or whatdoes that look like when you are
(09:34):
trying to meet the needs ofteachers in districts?
Or you know a district's needs.
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I think there are a couple moves I tend to try and
make in working with people.
One is to be as active andintentional a listener as
possible and to try and quietthe voice in my head.
That instinct like makes mewant to respond with right, just
(10:05):
because I I'm curious about somany things and I love engaging
with people and I have to likequiet it down.
A?
Um, an amazing um mentor who Ium, who I still uh see
frequently, she had taught meonce that one of the best things
(10:26):
that you can do, right if youfeel yourself getting into that
space where your mind is tooactive and you're not really
listening to people you'respeaking with, was to write down
on, like a little piece ofpaper, something that you can
visit visually, connect withlike the words don't talk right
(10:49):
and like force yourself to payattention to that so that you're
you're really focusing in onwhat the other person or people
are uh are saying and that uh.
That can be hard for me,because when I think of um like
(11:11):
a, a tool like Myers-Briggsright To determine uh some of
like the elements that areimportant to you, I tend to be
uh on like the ends of that um,be on like the ends of that,
extroverted and also judging,right?
I'm an ENTJ, right soextroverted and judging, and for
(11:32):
those EJs it's really tough tonot speak Like it is so hard to
do right.
So but listening with intentand really actively engaging in
what people are saying is onekey component.
The other piece that I would sayI'm a huge fan of, kim Scott's
Radical Candor, you know.
(11:54):
The idea is simply that we gainmore from being open and honest
with, like love and care forpeople than we do with playing
like nicey, nice all the time,right Like you can still build
cultures of care and also beopen and upfront with people in
(12:18):
a way that feels good for them,right so that tends to build
trust, it tends to encouragepeople to let things go a little
bit easier, and I thinkrelationships have to be built
on mutual trust as well as thisbelief that you can be open and
(12:45):
honest with the other person tohelp each other grow.
So those are like two things Itry to keep in mind.
Sometimes I do both of themmuch better than others, but I'd
say they're two foundationalelements that I try to employ
and use.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I was going to ask you a question next about how
you juggle all of the differentthings that you're doing, but
now you've got me thinking aboutthis radical candor.
You know, if you are in thisposition where you're working
with lots of differentparticipants in the system and
sometimes you know, people knowinformation, other people don't
know, or there's lots of thingsto juggle in that way.
(13:28):
So what is the role of candorand trust when you're juggling
those different voices and thedifferent needs of what people
need to know and hear?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, it's such a good question.
I think when I started mycareer, both as a teacher and
then also in the regional space,I was really focused on being
the pathway to an answer right.
So, whether it was a student oran adult, right, wanting to
(13:59):
know something I didn't want tosay I don't know, right, or live
in a space where I couldn't bethe answer provider, right, you
know, I, which was also like areally, on some level, like
(14:20):
selfish approach in terms ofthinking that I had to be the
one to to like, be that person,like how dare I even think that?
Right, it's just so right.
But at that point in my career,that's where I was, and so one
key piece that I think helps alot with that is not just the
(14:42):
openness and honesty of like notknowing which is important and
making it clear, but also beingthe person who then can use some
of my relational skills to makethose connections so people can
find the answer right, becausewe do more damage pretending to
(15:05):
know and sharing what might beerroneous information than we do
in not having the answer, buthelping people find the pathway
to getting at it Right, and sothat's, that's one piece.
On the other side, um there's.
(15:25):
There's the value of um peopleknowing that they can also come
to me for a really honestassessment of approaches,
planning or some work they wantto do with their teams.
They know that the response Iwill give will be one that is as
(16:00):
balanced and thoughtful aspossible and won't necessarily
be about me benefiting from theanswer.
When you asked Christine abouthow do you balance it, part of
it is not inserting yourselfinto whatever the work is right.
(16:26):
So I've gotten very good atproviding an assessment of
things and then connectingpeople and stepping back right,
because it is very hard and wereit not for my comfort with
saying no and being able to walkaway from things, I would
(16:47):
struggle even more with likeexecutive functioning than I do.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So I'm thinking now kind of some specifics now in
your region.
What are some needs that are,or have been at the surface of
the support that you're givingdistricts and schools?
So what seems to be kind of arethere some trends popping up or
(17:15):
is it like just different indifferent areas?
What's happening?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yeah, there's definitely some.
So one continued area of focushas been helping schools and
districts really think about howthey are structuring their
systems to be as inclusive aspossible for all students.
And that's inclusivity from allareas, right.
(17:43):
So race, gender, ethnicity,language, spoken, whether
students are, you know.
Whether students are, you knowSIFE students, right.
So students with interruptedformal education, right.
All of the being a place forall students to be successful,
(18:07):
which is, of course, such hardwork and probably the most
foundational thing that a schoolsystem can do, because
everything else kind of hingeson that.
Also, work around, how do youdesign support structures, right
?
That you know build off of workfrom response to intervention
(18:32):
and other approaches that aretruly multi-tiered.
So MTSS work, multi-tieredsystems of support are on the
minds of all schools anddistricts because, as you become
more inclusive in yourpractices, your approach to
meeting needs has to be muchmore focused and targeted.
(18:58):
And so creating these umbrellastructures where you can really
design interventions that happenin the classroom, where
everyone feels the positiveaccountability for doing that,
creating more targeted studentlevel groups and then building
(19:18):
out as needed, like one to onesupport, right.
And how do you, how do youcreate those, those models and
then, as wonderful as it is toteach and lead in New York state
, um, you know, new York is nota perfect state by any means, uh
, in its educational uhlandscape, and so one of the big
(19:41):
initiatives for our state overthe next five to six years will
be like a total evolution ofwhat the graduation process
looks like for students, right,and so, tammy and Christine,
there is like this at this point, centuries old kind of like
(20:02):
structure in New York Statewhere, in order to graduate, you
have to receive a certain scoreon a certain number of
assessments and if you don't,like, none shall pass.
Right, you are like, just right,you, you don't, you don't
graduate with like some smallexceptions.
(20:24):
Right, and these exams havebeen present for like ever since
, like the world was created onsome level.
So it's a really large shiftfor our state to be thinking
outside the box, and so stateslooking to adopt, yeah, portrait
of a graduate, rethink creditlike, rethink what it means to
(20:48):
show proficiency, to be agraduate, and so it's amazing,
really student focused work anduh like policies that I'm really
supportive of and want to helpour larger region move towards a
little bit of a crystal ballquestion for you.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Do you, who do you, who do you feel like is going to
have the biggest challenge withthat shift?
Is it going to be like theteachers?
Is it going to be the colleges?
Is it going to be parents?
Yeah, I'm wondering who's goingto battle the most with a huge
shift, a huge change like that.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It's such a good question.
I think that it's going to be aproductive challenge for
everyone, maybe for differentreasons, right?
So I think the and everyonewill stand to benefit.
Of course, the people who willstand to benefit most will be
the students, right, because somuch greater flexibility will be
(21:53):
provided and that flexibilityis also it's like a't move out
of and say like, oh, I wishthere was much more flexibility
(22:15):
and all that.
But, as we know, when peopleare given flexibility right,
sometimes they want to like goback into their boxes and, just
like you know, we want to likecomplain about being in the box,
but we don't want to leave thebox Right.
So I think it will be hard forteachers and leaders like myself
(22:35):
, included.
Certainly, I think Parents won'tfind it particularly difficult
in this state so long as twothings happen.
Difficult in this state, solong as two things happen.
The vast majority of parentsfeel that New York state
assessments do not do what theyshould do, right.
(22:57):
So that, I think, is a prettyand the continuum of like how
activated people get about thatis very different.
But I think most parents wouldbe like yeah, there are test
kids need to take, but not surewhat value they provide.
The other thing that I thinkparents will need to hear will
(23:19):
be that this is a move that willsupport their children's growth
in college and career.
Right, I think it will be toughfor institutes of higher
education because the structurefor most college level courses
(23:47):
continues to be sometimes moreboxy than what's happening in
K-12 education not all and noteverywhere, but you know,
post-secondary education willhave to shift too, so I think
(24:09):
it's.
I totally did not answer thequestion the way you wanted me
to.
I think it's going to be aproblem for everybody, but I
think it's a productivechallenge and the good thing is
that it's a challenge that willultimately really benefit New
York students.
So we can bemoan the process,but not what the outcome should
(24:31):
be right, because that's whyeverybody's in this profession
you want to make sure thatstudents have better
opportunities than we had whenwe were going through our
respective systems.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, and let's hope that.
You know this is a long process.
You said five to six years.
This is kind of the focus withthis shift and so hopefully, new
york state becomes, you know,maybe the catalyst or the model
for awesome yeah, to make thisshift.
So that would.
It'll be great to hear theupdates you know over time from
you, just to see, see and hearhow this unravels, and I just
(25:08):
Unravels is a good word too, Iwould.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I would say, and and Christine Tammy knows this
because you know she, she taughtin in the system in New York
for for a while right, but NewYork and maybe most states in
the U?
S are like this but New Yorkreally does believe, right, and
I I say this as New Yorker, so Iown it too New York really does
believe it is like the bestthing in all of existence, right
(25:34):
?
So wouldn't it be nice if theeducation system right like
continue to shift where, likepeople could believe that and
where there was actually someevidence, at least on the
education side, to like supportthat happening?
So to your point, tammy, yes,that would be amazing, right,
(25:54):
because as a native New Yorker,I could say like yeah, we are
the best, and actually point tosomething that was like trending
in that direction.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Exactly, and it's like not just a two year
initiative and then it's kickedout the door to try the next one
, Like you need the five to sixyears to see this real change.
So, yeah, this is going to beinteresting.
So we're going to wrap up ourepisode with you, Freddie.
Time flies when we're havinggood conversations and we always
(26:25):
ask our guests at the end of anepisode to offer a pare down
pointer.
Always ask our guests at theend of an episode to offer a
pare down pointer.
So just a quick tip or strategyfrom our conversation or
something else unrelated to whatwe talked about today, but just
something that our listenerscan take with them after the
episode.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, so I?
Um, when you said a pare downpointer, I thought of what has
been really helpful in mecollecting thoughts, being more
concise, sometimes be morebalanced in my approach, and so
one of the most helpful thingsthat I've done, anytime I'm
(27:06):
faced with something that seemslike really big or really
complicated, or if it's like anemail that I can't process
because of all of the potentialchallenges in it, is just give
myself I know it's so simple,right, and yet we don't always
(27:29):
do it Just give myself 24 hours,step away from whatever it is
and come back to it with a freshpair of eyes, and not always,
but the vast majority of timethe problem seems significantly
smaller and much simpler whenI've done that.
(27:53):
So, for what it's worth, asimple strategy that has saved
me a lot of time andoverthinking.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, no, that's perfect, I can attest to that.
Yeah, no, that's perfect, thatI can attest to that.
Just stepping away, clearingyour mind, not thinking about it
, can just make things so muchclearer and simpler.
Thank you so much, fred, forbeing with us today, my pleasure
.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Today's episode was brought to you by Plan Z
Professional Learning Servicesforward-thinking educator
support.
Find out more atplanzplservicescom.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator Podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at planzplson Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.