April 29, 2025 • 26 mins
Dr. Krista Leh returns to discuss how educators can effectively integrate social emotional learning into their teaching without adding to their workload, emphasizing the importance of recognizing SEL skills already present in their practices.
• Teachers continue to struggle with balancing personal lives and professional obligations while facing constant addition of new initiatives
• SEL is more than just building relationships—it's a set of interpersonal and intrapersonal skills that teachers are often already incorporating
• Research shows students only need one caring, consistent adult to make a difference in their lives
• Middle school leadership programs can effectively build student SEL skills by providing structured opportunities to explore character strengths
• Workshop design should honor participant expertise and create safe spaces for collaboration
• Free resources available at resonanceed.com for teachers looking to enhance their SEL practices
• Integration starts by examining existing practices and identifying the SEL skills already embedded in classroom activities
You don't have to do anything alone. Reach out to colleagues who can help you relate to students better, connect with someone who has different expertise, or ask for support at home so you can be your best self.
This episode is sponsored by Resonance Education.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
On this episode.
We welcome back Dr Krista Lay.
Krista is talking to us todayabout developing SEL programs in
schools.
Dr Krista Lay founded ResonanceEducational Consulting, which
supports educators in buildingmeaningful, engaging and
sustainable cultures thatenhance social emotional
learning and promote diversity,equity and inclusion.
(00:56):
Her 24-year career in educationincludes being a high school
social studies teacher,instructional tech coach,
curriculum coach and studentleadership advocate.
Kristen was also an adjunctprofessor for a master's in
education program specialisingin SEL.
She designed and facilitatedmethods of research, curriculum
design and development andculturally responsive teaching.
(01:17):
In 2012, kristen was one of the26 educators in the country
selected as an ASCD EmergingLeader.
Since then, she's worked witheducators in nearly 30 states to
feel more confident andcompetent in integrating SEL
into learning communities.
Krista holds a BS in SecondaryEducation, a Master's in
Education Curriculum Instructionand an Ed Doctorate in
(01:37):
Educational Leadership fromLehigh University.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
We are excited to have areturning guest with us today,
Dr Krista Lay.
Welcome back, Krista.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Thank you so much.
I'm incredibly excited to get achance to see you both and to
talk to you again.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yes, and how are you Christine?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I'm fantastic.
How are you, Tammy?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I'm really excited to be in this Zoom room with you
and to have another episodetalking about SEL and education
and you know our lives, and sowe thought we would have Krista
back to talk about, becauseactually you were here quite a
(02:29):
while ago in our first seasonnear the end of the first season
, which would have been like ayear ago I think and yeah, it's
been quite a while and so wewanted to have you back to just
touch base with you, becauseyou've been doing a ton of work
in schools with teachers and nowwith students, so can you I
(02:51):
don't even know where to startShould maybe we should start
with, like, what does it feellike in the schools that you're
working in right now and you'rein different regions, so you can
kind of like speak globally orregionally, however, that makes
sense.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, wow, that's a great question, and I am in
different regions right now, soI'm working in several different
states, but I think that whatis different is looking at the
different atmospheres that I'min.
So I'm in some urban schools,some more suburban schools and
(03:26):
some that are not, I would say,rural, but like more rural-like,
and so I'm seeing differentneeds of students depending upon
what access they have near themright, like, do they have to
drive super far?
Is the city right there?
But also, the city hasdifferent challenges as well,
(03:47):
and I think one thing, though,that's been really consistent is
teachers still trying to kindof navigate what's happening in
their personal lives and balancethat with still the heightened
professional I wanted to saystandards, but it's not even
really standards butprofessional obligations that
they have, which I think falls alot in line with the work that
(04:08):
you do around minimalism, and itjust seems like, as educators,
we still haven't gotten off thattrain of adding more.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So, so true, isn't it ?
It seems like it's always andand and without, without.
You know, what are we takingaway?
Yeah, it still.
It seems to be a a consistentissue.
Um, that that keeps coming upfor us, unfortunately, uh, so
what?
What are some of the the themesthat the teachers are talking
to you about, whether it's forthemselves, their own social,
(04:39):
emotional, well-being, but alsothat they're working with the
students?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah Well, I think I'd like to say as well that
people do have in mind that theywant to streamline.
They know that when they'readding quote, adding initiatives
, they want people to see howthey're interconnected, and when
I hear what they're doing, Ican see the interconnectedness.
So it's not necessarily thatpeople are just throwing
(05:06):
spaghetti at a wall like let'stry all these things to support
students, because students stillare being at the center, are
remaining at the center, and Ithink the vision is there for
how everything is connected.
But I think that the way thatsometimes things are rolled out
and the timing that is allocatedis what's really stressful for
teachers.
So the time that they have forplanning or for preparing what
(05:30):
is next for their students isoften taken away because they're
asked to focus on a newlearning or a new professional
learning or a new strategy orhow something is connected, and
they're not necessarily havingthe time that they need to do
the planning and the preparationor the conversations to talk
about ways to support students.
(05:52):
And so I'm seeing that as afrustration, like where do you
need me to focus what ispriority right now?
Because all of this can't bepriority.
Then what's happening?
Is that what I'm hearingteachers say is that they're
taking some of that stress levelhome and so they're not always
being or showing up as the bestversion of themselves for their
(06:14):
family members.
And that's been really hardbecause as educators we want to
be the best version of who weare for everybody.
But we can only take so muchbefore we start to have little
cracks and maybe start acting inways that aren't necessarily in
line with truly who we are andhow we want to show up in the
world.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You said a lot of things there and I jotted down a
couple of things I wanted tosort of go back to that you were
alluding to, and that was likehow to plan, for you know, how
do we kind of make this justpart of what we do, and so is
there any shift at all withteachers or administrators, or
(06:58):
both, thinking that SEL is anadd-on, like, is there still
that kind of misunderstandingthat, oh, this is something else
we need to do, but in fact,like we're trying to say it's
not, like we're embedding it,integrating it into everything?
Has there been any shift inthat?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I would love to say, yes, my heart wants to tell you
like, yes, people are seeing it.
I don't think they're seeing itright away, but I think that
there's still a misconceptionaround what SEL actually is and
most people are still definingit as relationships and yes,
you've heard me say this so manytimes, tammy like that is a
(07:39):
part of it, but that's noteverything.
That SEL is a set of skillsthat we're working on helping
students develop, skills thatwe're working on helping
students develop and that we'reworking on developing that are
interpersonal and intrapersonal.
So the self-awareness and theself-management.
And I think, when I really getdown into all of its small
(07:59):
components, then there's thatlight bulb that comes on that
says, oh my gosh, I am doingthis already and it's not a new
thing, but it's.
How can I be more explicit withthe students and how can I be
more intentional aboutconnecting what I'm already
doing to a social, emotionallearning skill?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You were talking there about.
You know all of theseobligations and expectations
that teachers have these daysand just thinking specifically
about social, emotional learning, whether it's the skills or or
even building the relationships.
It makes me think about when Iwas at the age that my students
are Right.
I won't say how many years agothat was, it was a while ago now
(08:41):
.
I mean I'm certain I hadseveral teachers that I never
had a conversation with.
Like I went the whole year intheir classroom and we did not
have a one-on-one conversation.
And now when I think about howmuch time of the day I spend
like one-on-one with kids, smallgroup with kids, actually
hearing their opinions and goingback and forth, like that alone
(09:04):
is such a huge shift in theexpectations that we have on us
as teachers.
And you know that's only onelittle element of that shift.
Can you talk a little bit moreto that?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Oh, absolutely.
And as soon as you startedsharing about reflecting back, I
was reflecting back as well andI'm like, oh yeah, you couldn't
have paid me to sit in a roomwith that teacher to talk.
And honestly, I think that'sokay, because we're not, for
everybody at that level,naturally clicked better with
(09:44):
now.
That's not to say that I don'tcontinue to try, and so I do
have activities and work around.
How do we create thesedevelopmental relationships with
all of our students and aspireto work with as many of them
equitably as possible?
Right, but there are sometimesjust personality conflicts.
That doesn't mean that I'mstill not doing my best to serve
students, to feel a sense ofbelonging and to give them
opportunities to grow anddevelop and to feel academic
(10:08):
success.
But my hope would be that ifI'm not the one for them like
I'm not their, you know cup oftea that there is another
teacher that I can connect withand learn from, and together
we're creating thiscollaborative community to
support the student.
And I think back to my own kids, who are now grown, that it's
(10:29):
okay if there was a teacher thatthey didn't jive with, but who
is their person?
And I feel that as long as thestudents have somebody they can
go to.
All you need in the researchsince, oh, 1999 and probably
before, but I just know 1999.
And of course, right now theresearcher's names are out of my
(10:49):
head.
But all it takes is one caring,consistent adult to make a
difference in a child's life.
Scales, and Leffert, look atthat, it just popped in.
And if they have more than that, that would be awesome.
But if you're not that person,who can you talk to and say, hey
, can you tell me what worksbest with reaching out to that
student?
So I think we aspire to it, butI don't think that we need to
(11:16):
be that person or change who weare to be that person for
everybody.
But how do we continue to workwith people to be better?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, so some of the work that you've been doing,
because initially you were, youknow the goal is to work with
the adults and their SEL skillsand then you know they bring
that into classrooms.
But you've recognized thisadditional area that is super
(11:45):
important in your work andthat's working with students.
And so I know in recent monthsyou've been meeting with groups
of students and you hadmentioned to me a couple I don't
, I was going to say a couple ofweeks ago, it was probably
longer ago than that, but likeyou had mentioned a shift in
like how they were responding,so can you talk a little bit
about that process with them?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah, you know, we did start off the business with
working with the adults, becausehow can we help them develop
the skills, the resources andthe tools and the strategies
that they need to be able toreach students in different ways
?
But when I think back to when Iwas a high school teacher, I
had worked with a couple staffmembers and we created a
(12:27):
leadership academy that wasfilled with very diverse
students of and it was racially,socioeconomically,
linguistically, religiously, interms of gender and the way that
they perceive themselves andthe way that they showed up in
the world, their differentinterests in school and outside
of school.
So, as anybody who is showingleadership potential, we're like
(12:49):
join us, we want to work withyou and learn from you, and so
we allowed them to kind ofcreate what did they want to
learn about and how could theytake this back to their peer
groups, and it was a hugesuccess in many different ways,
and when I left the district Ialways wanted to carry that
piece with me.
But you can't do everything allat once, right, but we know
(13:10):
that when we're working withstudents, they need to have a
voice and have a sense of agencyin the work themselves, and I
say, work with a capital?
W?
Like are we all growingtogether?
And so I've had an opportunitythis year to work with middle
school.
W?
Like are we all growingtogether?
And so I've had an opportunitythis year to work with middle
school students, fifth gradethrough eighth grade.
I get to work with them everymonth for three hours and the
(13:30):
funny thing is, thinking back,like three hours is probably
long.
They have a lot of energy andso we mix it up a lot Like every
15 to 20 minutes we have somesort of movement activity and so
we're asking up a lot Likeevery 15 to 20 minutes we have
some sort of movement activityand so we're asking them what do
you want to learn about, what'simportant for you?
What questions do you have?
And really the first full twosessions we're giving them
(13:54):
opportunities to get to knoweach other, consistently, mixing
up the small groups, havingthem introduce themselves, do
what I call level onequestioning.
We're finding out what theyhave in common, what's unique,
and giving them little piecesabout leadership, like tell me
about the school, tell me whatyou like, what you'd want to
change, why are you here?
And our last session we werehaving them dig more into
(14:17):
leadership and their VIAcharacter strengths through the
University of Penn.
So if you go to VIA characterstrengths, there's an online
survey they can take and theywere looking at what leadership
qualities they aspire to, whattop two to five character
strengths they have that theycan really leverage.
And it was just really amazingto see how the group coalesced,
(14:42):
how they were going from groupto group and talking to each
other, that they were askingeach other to join in on the
small group activities where Ifelt like it was really hesitant
the first session uncomfortable, didn't you know, needed to get
(15:02):
to know each other and it wascool to see this kind of
metamorphosis of them comingtogether as a group and thinking
about that as an introvertmyself too.
We also put in pieces that theyall had name tags and they would
introduce themselves.
We gave them journals that theycould write their notes in and
that they could just doscribblings, and we found out
that one of the boys he wants tobe an architect.
(15:25):
He's in sixth grade and doesthe most amazing designs in his
book.
While he's listening to people,we gave them little squishies
to kind of play with and to hold, and so, thinking about that,
this could be a stressfulsituation to be in.
Yet they're here because theywant to learn how could we ease
the path for them and I thinkwe're really seeing the fruits
(15:47):
of their labor and our laborreally coming together.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
That sounds amazing.
Sounds like a very specialthing to be a part of Krista.
That's awesome.
I'm wondering whether you'vegot any advice, if for teachers
who you know might really wantto develop their skills in SEL
for their school or theirclassroom, but maybe they don't
have the funding for it or it'snot part of the school plan at
(16:11):
the moment, so they don't reallyhave too many resources that
they can access themselves.
Do you have any advice forpeople?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
No, oh, definitely.
The first thing I would say isthat go to my website.
There's a lot of free resourcesout there that they can
download and start implementingright away.
So that is wwwresonanceedcom.
Love to get on a Zoom, like youcan go to my Calendly and like
(16:45):
let's book a half an hour andtalk about where you're at, what
you aspire to do, and I'd loveto just bounce ideas with you
for a little bit.
I love engaging with people whowant to learn and grow in SEL,
and I would say that one of thefirst things that we could do is
just take a look at what you'realready doing and how that
aligns with one of the 40 SELskills.
So it's not adding one morething, but what are you already
(17:07):
doing or thinking about in yoursocial interactions?
How do you greet people cominginto the room?
What do you know about yourstudents and how can you engage
in social conversations withthem?
What do you do to reinforceopportunities for students to
get to know each other, insteadof them just sitting in their
same seat only talking to theirshoulder partner all year long?
(17:29):
And then I think the next piecewould be what SEL skills do
students need to be developingto learn in your classroom.
So a lot of teachers have labsor group projects, and those are
filled with SEL skills.
So what is it that's already inthere that you would like to
(17:49):
enhance with students?
So think big and start small.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
A mentor of mine, dr Pete Grandy, used to say that I
love that you were talking aboutsome of the resources you have
on your website.
You have a ton of stuff onthere and I've seen you use it
in multiple workshops which Iwanted to ask you about because
I remember when we in the summerof 2024, august or July we
(18:16):
spent a week out in Arizonadoing workshops for teachers and
I remember getting a heads upfrom the organizers saying we've
got some challenge, potentiallychallenging principles in the
audience and by the end they hadreally bought in, like we got
(18:36):
some good feedback about theworkshops and so can you just
talk a little bit about, like,how you design your activities
and workshops, because they arelike the engagement is really
high.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
I think that the first thing isto not assume that people
aren't knowledgeable.
So I don't ever want to come inand think, oh, I have to cover
all this content because maybepeople in the room already know
these things and so I want todraw upon their expertise and
their experiences, and so Ioften try and I've learned this
(19:13):
from you, tammy, too taking aninquiry approach.
So here's where I know we needto get to like here are learning
goals, and maybe there's threeor four of them in a full day
session.
What activities can I planwhere I can engage them in
sharing what they know, whatthey've experienced, what
they've done, and have themshare out, and then I can fill
(19:35):
in the gaps with some new piecesto link together what they're
already doing.
So it doesn't feel like I'mcoming in and lecturing them,
because we all show up as fullindividuals with something to
share.
I think the second part, too,is educators crave opportunities
to collaborate with each otherand share what they've been
(19:56):
doing, and so I would ratherhear from more people in the
room than them hearing from mehere.
For more people in the roomthan them hearing from me, I'm
happy to answer questions and togive ideas, but oftentimes I
think about how I can createsomething to meet people's needs
based on what they're sharingout.
And we always have a lot ofmovement.
We're up and down, we're movinginto different groups, and so
(20:19):
you know right away when you'reworking with me that within the
first 20 minutes you're going tobe up and moving somewhere.
And I say that as you'resmiling, because I'm an
introvert too and I don't likewhen people do that to me.
I'm like, oh god, no, I need togo get coffee and head out of
this room.
But I feel that I do it in asafe way where you're not
looking for who is, you're inyour group, you're not afraid of
being left out and I don't justdrop you in a group and say you
(20:42):
get to work.
It's very structured and it'sin a fun way where you know
where you're going, you have achance to meet the people and
you have specific conversationstarters to get you going before
you get into more of thecontent piece love that, love
that.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
There's always that moment of hesitation, right
where you're like oh, no I have,I have to talk to strangers, I
have to move.
Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Oh, and it's like I purposely sat here in this spot
in the room.
I like to be in the back of theroom, near an end, in case I
need to like head out somewhere.
I'm not stuck in the middle, Idon't have all eyes on me, and
(21:28):
then they're like no, like no,no, no, you need to move your
seat.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I'm like, yeah, it's very, it's stressful and it's,
if it's stressful for us asadults, think about what it's
like for the kids.
I know, absolutely, but it's,it's always worthwhile, like the
people that you meet doing thatsort of thing is, is it's?
really worthwhile for sure, butI love that part that you were
saying, though, about whenyou're leading a workshop is
everyone's got expertise in theroom, and that you're like just
there to facilitate what's goingon and fill in those gaps.
It's really nice to haveworkshop leaders who are able to
(21:52):
take, you know, I guess likethe ego out of it a little bit
and say we've all got somethingto contribute here.
We've all got something that wecan share.
Let's harness that rather thanlike I'm the expert, listen to
me.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah, I even hate that word, I hate the strong
word.
But even when people are likeexpert, I'm like really Cause, I
feel like I'm just on thisjourney, just like everybody
else, and the only reason Ithink that I can specifically
talk longer about SEL is becausethat's all I do, like most
other people are pulled in somany other directions.
(22:28):
Like I can't talk the way youboth do about applying
minimalism into all facets ofyour life, or into how to set up
an IB school, or talking aboutstudent agency and coaching the
way that you both do.
You know so we all havesomething to offer when we're,
when we're coming together.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, and I just super appreciate how, like
you're really modeling aworkshop, how classes should be
taught, right, like it's sothoughtfully planned out that
you're you're modeling how touse SEL skills when you're
teaching something orfacilitating something, and I'm
(23:06):
like you're super sneaky andgood at it and like people don't
even know it's happening.
However, like you are explicitabout like why we're doing
something which is what we wantteachers to be doing, Right?
So I just appreciate that aboutyour approach.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Thank you, thank you, and if you remember to um, like
that ability to be flexible andagile is important because,
tammy, you know, we were therefor five days and every day we
were changing something up tomake it better the next day, so
it was like what we want ourteachers to do.
So what we started off with onMonday didn't look the same on
Friday.
Monday didn't look the same onFriday, and in fact, I've
(23:47):
revised it two more times sincethen.
Yeah, and that that's part ofthis process is to be iterative
and to meet people's needs,cause I think the worst thing is
walking away from a full daysession, being like that was
always fine, right, exactly,sadly we're, we need to wrap up
our episode.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Okay, sadly we need to wrap up our episode.
But I mean, you've said lots ofthings, but if you were going
to give our you know about ourpare down pointer for listeners,
if you were going to drop apare down pointer for people,
kind of based on ourconversation today, what would
that be?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
You know what I think it would be that you don't have
to do anything alone, likereach out to the people who are
around you, your colleagues, whocan help you relate to a
student a little bit better, orsomebody who might have a
different type of expertise thanyou do, or to a partner at home
to give you five minutes todecompress so you can be your
(24:39):
best self for whoever you havein the household.
So I think, really just helppeople realize that you don't
ever have to walk through anyaspect of life alone and that
sometimes, when you are asked tojust get up and meet with a new
group, it could introduce youto new ideas and new people who
could really become a solidsupport structure for you.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Oh, I love that so much.
Thank you, Krista.
Thanks again for being on thepodcast with us.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Thank you so much.
It's always a pleasure to beable to start my day seeing both
of your faces and hearing fromyou, so thank you for the
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
This episode was brought to you by Resonance
Education.
Resonance Education areconsultants who collaborate with
educators to createcomprehensive, sustainable,
scalable cultures of social,emotional learning.
You can find them atresidenceedcom.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast, a
podcast about paring down torefocus on the purpose and
priorities in our roles withco-hosts and co-authors of the
Minimalist Teacher Book, TammyMusialski-Borneman and Christine
Arnold.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
On this episode.
We welcome back Dr Krista Lay.
Krista is talking to us todayabout developing SEL programs in
schools.
Dr Krista Lay founded ResonanceEducational Consulting, which
supports educators in buildingmeaningful, engaging and
sustainable cultures thatenhance social emotional
learning and promote diversity,equity and inclusion.
(00:56):
Her 24-year career in educationincludes being a high school
social studies teacher,instructional tech coach,
curriculum coach and studentleadership advocate.
Kristen was also an adjunctprofessor for a master's in
education program specialisingin SEL.
She designed and facilitatedmethods of research, curriculum
design and development andculturally responsive teaching.
(01:17):
In 2012, kristen was one of the26 educators in the country
selected as an ASCD EmergingLeader.
Since then, she's worked witheducators in nearly 30 states to
feel more confident andcompetent in integrating SEL
into learning communities.
Krista holds a BS in SecondaryEducation, a Master's in
Education Curriculum Instructionand an Ed Doctorate in
(01:37):
Educational Leadership fromLehigh University.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
We are excited to have areturning guest with us today,
Dr Krista Lay.
Welcome back, Krista.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Thank you so much.
I'm incredibly excited to get achance to see you both and to
talk to you again.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yes, and how are you Christine?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I'm fantastic.
How are you, Tammy?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I'm really excited to be in this Zoom room with you
and to have another episodetalking about SEL and education
and you know our lives, and sowe thought we would have Krista
back to talk about, becauseactually you were here quite a
(02:29):
while ago in our first seasonnear the end of the first season
, which would have been like ayear ago I think and yeah, it's
been quite a while and so wewanted to have you back to just
touch base with you, becauseyou've been doing a ton of work
in schools with teachers and nowwith students, so can you I
(02:51):
don't even know where to startShould maybe we should start
with, like, what does it feellike in the schools that you're
working in right now and you'rein different regions, so you can
kind of like speak globally orregionally, however, that makes
sense.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, wow, that's a great question, and I am in
different regions right now, soI'm working in several different
states, but I think that whatis different is looking at the
different atmospheres that I'min.
So I'm in some urban schools,some more suburban schools and
(03:26):
some that are not, I would say,rural, but like more rural-like,
and so I'm seeing differentneeds of students depending upon
what access they have near themright, like, do they have to
drive super far?
Is the city right there?
But also, the city hasdifferent challenges as well,
(03:47):
and I think one thing, though,that's been really consistent is
teachers still trying to kindof navigate what's happening in
their personal lives and balancethat with still the heightened
professional I wanted to saystandards, but it's not even
really standards butprofessional obligations that
they have, which I think falls alot in line with the work that
(04:08):
you do around minimalism, and itjust seems like, as educators,
we still haven't gotten off thattrain of adding more.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So, so true, isn't it ?
It seems like it's always andand and without, without.
You know, what are we takingaway?
Yeah, it still.
It seems to be a a consistentissue.
Um, that that keeps coming upfor us, unfortunately, uh, so
what?
What are some of the the themesthat the teachers are talking
to you about, whether it's forthemselves, their own social,
(04:39):
emotional, well-being, but alsothat they're working with the
students?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah Well, I think I'd like to say as well that
people do have in mind that theywant to streamline.
They know that when they'readding quote, adding initiatives
, they want people to see howthey're interconnected, and when
I hear what they're doing, Ican see the interconnectedness.
So it's not necessarily thatpeople are just throwing
(05:06):
spaghetti at a wall like let'stry all these things to support
students, because students stillare being at the center, are
remaining at the center, and Ithink the vision is there for
how everything is connected.
But I think that the way thatsometimes things are rolled out
and the timing that is allocatedis what's really stressful for
teachers.
So the time that they have forplanning or for preparing what
(05:30):
is next for their students isoften taken away because they're
asked to focus on a newlearning or a new professional
learning or a new strategy orhow something is connected, and
they're not necessarily havingthe time that they need to do
the planning and the preparationor the conversations to talk
about ways to support students.
(05:52):
And so I'm seeing that as afrustration, like where do you
need me to focus what ispriority right now?
Because all of this can't bepriority.
Then what's happening?
Is that what I'm hearingteachers say is that they're
taking some of that stress levelhome and so they're not always
being or showing up as the bestversion of themselves for their
(06:14):
family members.
And that's been really hardbecause as educators we want to
be the best version of who weare for everybody.
But we can only take so muchbefore we start to have little
cracks and maybe start acting inways that aren't necessarily in
line with truly who we are andhow we want to show up in the
world.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You said a lot of things there and I jotted down a
couple of things I wanted tosort of go back to that you were
alluding to, and that was likehow to plan, for you know, how
do we kind of make this justpart of what we do, and so is
there any shift at all withteachers or administrators, or
(06:58):
both, thinking that SEL is anadd-on, like, is there still
that kind of misunderstandingthat, oh, this is something else
we need to do, but in fact,like we're trying to say it's
not, like we're embedding it,integrating it into everything?
Has there been any shift inthat?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I would love to say, yes, my heart wants to tell you
like, yes, people are seeing it.
I don't think they're seeing itright away, but I think that
there's still a misconceptionaround what SEL actually is and
most people are still definingit as relationships and yes,
you've heard me say this so manytimes, tammy like that is a
(07:39):
part of it, but that's noteverything.
That SEL is a set of skillsthat we're working on helping
students develop, skills thatwe're working on helping
students develop and that we'reworking on developing that are
interpersonal and intrapersonal.
So the self-awareness and theself-management.
And I think, when I really getdown into all of its small
(07:59):
components, then there's thatlight bulb that comes on that
says, oh my gosh, I am doingthis already and it's not a new
thing, but it's.
How can I be more explicit withthe students and how can I be
more intentional aboutconnecting what I'm already
doing to a social, emotionallearning skill?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You were talking there about.
You know all of theseobligations and expectations
that teachers have these daysand just thinking specifically
about social, emotional learning, whether it's the skills or or
even building the relationships.
It makes me think about when Iwas at the age that my students
are Right.
I won't say how many years agothat was, it was a while ago now
(08:41):
.
I mean I'm certain I hadseveral teachers that I never
had a conversation with.
Like I went the whole year intheir classroom and we did not
have a one-on-one conversation.
And now when I think about howmuch time of the day I spend
like one-on-one with kids, smallgroup with kids, actually
hearing their opinions and goingback and forth, like that alone
(09:04):
is such a huge shift in theexpectations that we have on us
as teachers.
And you know that's only onelittle element of that shift.
Can you talk a little bit moreto that?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Oh, absolutely.
And as soon as you startedsharing about reflecting back, I
was reflecting back as well andI'm like, oh yeah, you couldn't
have paid me to sit in a roomwith that teacher to talk.
And honestly, I think that'sokay, because we're not, for
everybody at that level,naturally clicked better with
(09:44):
now.
That's not to say that I don'tcontinue to try, and so I do
have activities and work around.
How do we create thesedevelopmental relationships with
all of our students and aspireto work with as many of them
equitably as possible?
Right, but there are sometimesjust personality conflicts.
That doesn't mean that I'mstill not doing my best to serve
students, to feel a sense ofbelonging and to give them
opportunities to grow anddevelop and to feel academic
(10:08):
success.
But my hope would be that ifI'm not the one for them like
I'm not their, you know cup oftea that there is another
teacher that I can connect withand learn from, and together
we're creating thiscollaborative community to
support the student.
And I think back to my own kids, who are now grown, that it's
(10:29):
okay if there was a teacher thatthey didn't jive with, but who
is their person?
And I feel that as long as thestudents have somebody they can
go to.
All you need in the researchsince, oh, 1999 and probably
before, but I just know 1999.
And of course, right now theresearcher's names are out of my
(10:49):
head.
But all it takes is one caring,consistent adult to make a
difference in a child's life.
Scales, and Leffert, look atthat, it just popped in.
And if they have more than that, that would be awesome.
But if you're not that person,who can you talk to and say, hey
, can you tell me what worksbest with reaching out to that
student?
So I think we aspire to it, butI don't think that we need to
(11:16):
be that person or change who weare to be that person for
everybody.
But how do we continue to workwith people to be better?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, so some of the work that you've been doing,
because initially you were, youknow the goal is to work with
the adults and their SEL skillsand then you know they bring
that into classrooms.
But you've recognized thisadditional area that is super
(11:45):
important in your work andthat's working with students.
And so I know in recent monthsyou've been meeting with groups
of students and you hadmentioned to me a couple I don't
, I was going to say a couple ofweeks ago, it was probably
longer ago than that, but likeyou had mentioned a shift in
like how they were responding,so can you talk a little bit
about that process with them?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah, you know, we did start off the business with
working with the adults, becausehow can we help them develop
the skills, the resources andthe tools and the strategies
that they need to be able toreach students in different ways
?
But when I think back to when Iwas a high school teacher, I
had worked with a couple staffmembers and we created a
(12:27):
leadership academy that wasfilled with very diverse
students of and it was racially,socioeconomically,
linguistically, religiously, interms of gender and the way that
they perceive themselves andthe way that they showed up in
the world, their differentinterests in school and outside
of school.
So, as anybody who is showingleadership potential, we're like
(12:49):
join us, we want to work withyou and learn from you, and so
we allowed them to kind ofcreate what did they want to
learn about and how could theytake this back to their peer
groups, and it was a hugesuccess in many different ways,
and when I left the district Ialways wanted to carry that
piece with me.
But you can't do everything allat once, right, but we know
(13:10):
that when we're working withstudents, they need to have a
voice and have a sense of agencyin the work themselves, and I
say, work with a capital?
W?
Like are we all growingtogether?
And so I've had an opportunitythis year to work with middle
school.
W?
Like are we all growingtogether?
And so I've had an opportunitythis year to work with middle
school students, fifth gradethrough eighth grade.
I get to work with them everymonth for three hours and the
(13:30):
funny thing is, thinking back,like three hours is probably
long.
They have a lot of energy andso we mix it up a lot Like every
15 to 20 minutes we have somesort of movement activity and so
we're asking up a lot Likeevery 15 to 20 minutes we have
some sort of movement activityand so we're asking them what do
you want to learn about, what'simportant for you?
What questions do you have?
And really the first full twosessions we're giving them
(13:54):
opportunities to get to knoweach other, consistently, mixing
up the small groups, havingthem introduce themselves, do
what I call level onequestioning.
We're finding out what theyhave in common, what's unique,
and giving them little piecesabout leadership, like tell me
about the school, tell me whatyou like, what you'd want to
change, why are you here?
And our last session we werehaving them dig more into
(14:17):
leadership and their VIAcharacter strengths through the
University of Penn.
So if you go to VIA characterstrengths, there's an online
survey they can take and theywere looking at what leadership
qualities they aspire to, whattop two to five character
strengths they have that theycan really leverage.
And it was just really amazingto see how the group coalesced,
(14:42):
how they were going from groupto group and talking to each
other, that they were askingeach other to join in on the
small group activities where Ifelt like it was really hesitant
the first session uncomfortable, didn't you know, needed to get
(15:02):
to know each other and it wascool to see this kind of
metamorphosis of them comingtogether as a group and thinking
about that as an introvertmyself too.
We also put in pieces that theyall had name tags and they would
introduce themselves.
We gave them journals that theycould write their notes in and
that they could just doscribblings, and we found out
that one of the boys he wants tobe an architect.
(15:25):
He's in sixth grade and doesthe most amazing designs in his
book.
While he's listening to people,we gave them little squishies
to kind of play with and to hold, and so, thinking about that,
this could be a stressfulsituation to be in.
Yet they're here because theywant to learn how could we ease
the path for them and I thinkwe're really seeing the fruits
(15:47):
of their labor and our laborreally coming together.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
That sounds amazing.
Sounds like a very specialthing to be a part of Krista.
That's awesome.
I'm wondering whether you'vegot any advice, if for teachers
who you know might really wantto develop their skills in SEL
for their school or theirclassroom, but maybe they don't
have the funding for it or it'snot part of the school plan at
(16:11):
the moment, so they don't reallyhave too many resources that
they can access themselves.
Do you have any advice forpeople?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
No, oh, definitely.
The first thing I would say isthat go to my website.
There's a lot of free resourcesout there that they can
download and start implementingright away.
So that is wwwresonanceedcom.
Love to get on a Zoom, like youcan go to my Calendly and like
(16:45):
let's book a half an hour andtalk about where you're at, what
you aspire to do, and I'd loveto just bounce ideas with you
for a little bit.
I love engaging with people whowant to learn and grow in SEL,
and I would say that one of thefirst things that we could do is
just take a look at what you'realready doing and how that
aligns with one of the 40 SELskills.
So it's not adding one morething, but what are you already
(17:07):
doing or thinking about in yoursocial interactions?
How do you greet people cominginto the room?
What do you know about yourstudents and how can you engage
in social conversations withthem?
What do you do to reinforceopportunities for students to
get to know each other, insteadof them just sitting in their
same seat only talking to theirshoulder partner all year long?
(17:29):
And then I think the next piecewould be what SEL skills do
students need to be developingto learn in your classroom.
So a lot of teachers have labsor group projects, and those are
filled with SEL skills.
So what is it that's already inthere that you would like to
(17:49):
enhance with students?
So think big and start small.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
A mentor of mine, dr Pete Grandy, used to say that I
love that you were talking aboutsome of the resources you have
on your website.
You have a ton of stuff onthere and I've seen you use it
in multiple workshops which Iwanted to ask you about because
I remember when we in the summerof 2024, august or July we
(18:16):
spent a week out in Arizonadoing workshops for teachers and
I remember getting a heads upfrom the organizers saying we've
got some challenge, potentiallychallenging principles in the
audience and by the end they hadreally bought in, like we got
(18:36):
some good feedback about theworkshops and so can you just
talk a little bit about, like,how you design your activities
and workshops, because they arelike the engagement is really
high.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
I think that the first thing isto not assume that people
aren't knowledgeable.
So I don't ever want to come inand think, oh, I have to cover
all this content because maybepeople in the room already know
these things and so I want todraw upon their expertise and
their experiences, and so Ioften try and I've learned this
(19:13):
from you, tammy, too taking aninquiry approach.
So here's where I know we needto get to like here are learning
goals, and maybe there's threeor four of them in a full day
session.
What activities can I planwhere I can engage them in
sharing what they know, whatthey've experienced, what
they've done, and have themshare out, and then I can fill
(19:35):
in the gaps with some new piecesto link together what they're
already doing.
So it doesn't feel like I'mcoming in and lecturing them,
because we all show up as fullindividuals with something to
share.
I think the second part, too,is educators crave opportunities
to collaborate with each otherand share what they've been
(19:56):
doing, and so I would ratherhear from more people in the
room than them hearing from mehere.
For more people in the roomthan them hearing from me, I'm
happy to answer questions and togive ideas, but oftentimes I
think about how I can createsomething to meet people's needs
based on what they're sharingout.
And we always have a lot ofmovement.
We're up and down, we're movinginto different groups, and so
(20:19):
you know right away when you'reworking with me that within the
first 20 minutes you're going tobe up and moving somewhere.
And I say that as you'resmiling, because I'm an
introvert too and I don't likewhen people do that to me.
I'm like, oh god, no, I need togo get coffee and head out of
this room.
But I feel that I do it in asafe way where you're not
looking for who is, you're inyour group, you're not afraid of
being left out and I don't justdrop you in a group and say you
(20:42):
get to work.
It's very structured and it'sin a fun way where you know
where you're going, you have achance to meet the people and
you have specific conversationstarters to get you going before
you get into more of thecontent piece love that, love
that.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
There's always that moment of hesitation, right
where you're like oh, no I have,I have to talk to strangers, I
have to move.
Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Oh, and it's like I purposely sat here in this spot
in the room.
I like to be in the back of theroom, near an end, in case I
need to like head out somewhere.
I'm not stuck in the middle, Idon't have all eyes on me, and
(21:28):
then they're like no, like no,no, no, you need to move your
seat.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I'm like, yeah, it's very, it's stressful and it's,
if it's stressful for us asadults, think about what it's
like for the kids.
I know, absolutely, but it's,it's always worthwhile, like the
people that you meet doing thatsort of thing is, is it's?
really worthwhile for sure, butI love that part that you were
saying, though, about whenyou're leading a workshop is
everyone's got expertise in theroom, and that you're like just
there to facilitate what's goingon and fill in those gaps.
It's really nice to haveworkshop leaders who are able to
(21:52):
take, you know, I guess likethe ego out of it a little bit
and say we've all got somethingto contribute here.
We've all got something that wecan share.
Let's harness that rather thanlike I'm the expert, listen to
me.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah, I even hate that word, I hate the strong
word.
But even when people are likeexpert, I'm like really Cause, I
feel like I'm just on thisjourney, just like everybody
else, and the only reason Ithink that I can specifically
talk longer about SEL is becausethat's all I do, like most
other people are pulled in somany other directions.
(22:28):
Like I can't talk the way youboth do about applying
minimalism into all facets ofyour life, or into how to set up
an IB school, or talking aboutstudent agency and coaching the
way that you both do.
You know so we all havesomething to offer when we're,
when we're coming together.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, and I just super appreciate how, like
you're really modeling aworkshop, how classes should be
taught, right, like it's sothoughtfully planned out that
you're you're modeling how touse SEL skills when you're
teaching something orfacilitating something, and I'm
(23:06):
like you're super sneaky andgood at it and like people don't
even know it's happening.
However, like you are explicitabout like why we're doing
something which is what we wantteachers to be doing, Right?
So I just appreciate that aboutyour approach.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Thank you, thank you, and if you remember to um, like
that ability to be flexible andagile is important because,
tammy, you know, we were therefor five days and every day we
were changing something up tomake it better the next day, so
it was like what we want ourteachers to do.
So what we started off with onMonday didn't look the same on
Friday.
Monday didn't look the same onFriday, and in fact, I've
(23:47):
revised it two more times sincethen.
Yeah, and that that's part ofthis process is to be iterative
and to meet people's needs,cause I think the worst thing is
walking away from a full daysession, being like that was
always fine, right, exactly,sadly we're, we need to wrap up
our episode.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Okay, sadly we need to wrap up our episode.
But I mean, you've said lots ofthings, but if you were going
to give our you know about ourpare down pointer for listeners,
if you were going to drop apare down pointer for people,
kind of based on ourconversation today, what would
that be?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
You know what I think it would be that you don't have
to do anything alone, likereach out to the people who are
around you, your colleagues, whocan help you relate to a
student a little bit better, orsomebody who might have a
different type of expertise thanyou do, or to a partner at home
to give you five minutes todecompress so you can be your
(24:39):
best self for whoever you havein the household.
So I think, really just helppeople realize that you don't
ever have to walk through anyaspect of life alone and that
sometimes, when you are asked tojust get up and meet with a new
group, it could introduce youto new ideas and new people who
could really become a solidsupport structure for you.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Oh, I love that so much.
Thank you, Krista.
Thanks again for being on thepodcast with us.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Thank you so much.
It's always a pleasure to beable to start my day seeing both
of your faces and hearing fromyou, so thank you for the
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
This episode was brought to you by Resonance
Education.
Resonance Education areconsultants who collaborate with
educators to createcomprehensive, sustainable,
scalable cultures of social,emotional learning.
You can find them atresidenceedcom.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Be sure to join Tammy and Christine and guests for
more episodes of the MinimalistEducator podcast.
They would love to hear aboutyour journey with minimalism.
Connect with them at PlanZPLSon Twitter or Instagram.
The music for the podcast hasbeen written and performed by
Gaia Moretti.
Thank you.
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