October 28, 2025 • 26 mins
Dr. Amanda Brueggeman shares insights from her research and experience with student-centered mentoring, a collaborative approach that keeps students at the heart of new teachers' learning. She explains how this philosophy contrasts with traditional mentoring methods and offers strategies for providing effective support that helps retain teachers in the profession.
• The number one reason teachers leave the profession is lack of support
• Traditional mentoring uses teacher-centered approaches while student-centered mentoring focuses on collaborative partnerships
• Asking strategic questions across different support categories (emotional, communication, instruction) is more effective than generic check-ins
• Both mentors and mentees can learn from each other in an effective mentoring relationship
• Mindset greatly impacts teaching practice, with growth-oriented teachers being more open to collaboration and innovation
• Time-blocking is an essential strategy for managing the many demands on educators' time
For resources and more information on student-centered mentoring, visit amandabrueggemann.com.
This episode is sponsored by ACBrueggeman Consulting: The Home for Student-Centered Mentoring and Educator Support.
Find our book The Minimalist Teacher and Your School Leadership Edit: A Minimalist Approach to Rethinking Your School's Ecosystem at the links!
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on a less ismore approach to education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your School
Leadership.
Edit a minimalist approach torethinking your school ecosystem
each week as they explorepractical ways to simplify your
(00:36):
work, sharpen your focus andamplify what matters most so you
can teach and lead with greaterclarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
On this week's episode, we are joined by Dr
Amanda Brueggemann to talk aboutstudent-centered coaching.
Her pare-down pointer is totime block all of those
important tasks.
Dr Amanda Brueggemann hasdedicated over 20 years to
education, beginning her careeras an elementary classroom
teacher and later serving as aliteracy coach.
(01:07):
She trains instructionalcoaches in student-centred
coaching and providesprofessional learning for new
teacher mentors, drawing fromher book Student-Centred
Mentoring Keeping Students atthe Heart of New Teachers'
Learning.
She earned her doctorate inteacher leadership from
Maryville University, where shealso serves as an adjunct
professor leadership fromMaryville University, where she
also serves as an adjunctprofessor.
She is working on her upcomingbook Habits of Resilient
(01:28):
Learners Strategies forExcelling in Challenging Times,
with co-authors LindsayPrendergast and Piper Lee.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome everyone to today's episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Today, christine and I aretalking with Dr Amanda
Brueggemann, who is aneducational consultant and
author of the bookStudent-Centered Mentoring, and
so we're excited to talk to hertoday because this episode is
(01:56):
going to be very timely with thestart of the new school year
and providing support forteachers as well as students.
Welcome to the show, amanda.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to get to joinyou all today.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Thank you for being here.
We are excited to talk aboutthis topic because, well, for
lots of reasons, but thestudent-centered mentoring piece
of your writing is particularlyinteresting.
Centered mentoring piece ofyour writing is particularly
interesting.
But before we get into that,can you just tell us a little
bit about how you kind of cameto that piece of into your
(02:34):
expertise, like what led you tothat?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well, my background started off as an elementary
classroom teacher.
I started off doing fourth andfifth grade and I had the
pleasure of getting to have acouple of student teachers and
supervise, through some adjunctwork I had done at the time,
some newer teachers, and then Iwent into my role as a literacy
(02:58):
coach for our school district,where at the time I was across
four of our buildings.
I was a district coach.
We had the pleasure of beingone of the fastest growing
districts in the state ofMissouri and lots of new
teachers came along with thatright.
And it also came with theuncovering of some needs that we
had around mentoring and tryingto provide some mentor support.
(03:21):
Provide some mentor support.
Whenever I first started, ournew teachers were assigned a
mentor, but they were just kindof given like a checklist and
kind of a guidebook of likehere's some things, and so
that's where I started reallythinking about how can we
provide support for new teachers?
That also includes the supportfor mentors, but yet in a way
(03:43):
that's different, because thetraditional, you know, way of
mentoring is a veryteacher-centered approach and I
felt like we had to do somethingdifferent because at that time
we were still, you know, needingto think about how do we retain
teachers.
And then you know, as we allknow, that has since increased
as a need is retaining teachersin our profession.
(04:03):
And so through that researchthough that I did that work
around like thinking aboutsupport for mentoring, I found
that the number one reason why alot of teachers leave our
profession is because they don'tfeel supported.
And it could be a range ofsupport, it could be a support
from their colleagues, fromtheir administrators.
It also could be familiar,familial, from families and
(04:28):
parents and that support thatthey need.
But that was the number onereason actually and so that's
kind of where this came to birthis that I just felt like I
needed to try somethingdifferent.
So and I had a lot of fun withgetting to do that, getting to
work with a lot of differentteachers and so I just recently
(04:48):
decided to step out and do justconsulting, but I still adjunct,
so I actually teach anundergrad class, a master's
class and a doctoral class, sothat way I can still have a lot
of hand and thinking and talkingaround different ideas with
teachers, future teachersespecially.
(05:08):
That's probably actually mymost fun group.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Wow, that's.
That's very awesome.
It's great to hear that you'redoing that important work of
looking into how we can keepmore of our colleagues in the
profession for longer.
Very important work.
Can you share with us like areally special moment from your
mentoring experiences that hasreally stuck with you?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
There's so many Because I have to say for myself
even, it's probably been one ofthe best things to have like a
mentor, to have someone tocollaborate with.
So, for myself, like, I have alot of different ones, but I
would actually probably want tohighlight back when I started
(05:55):
thinking about how can weincorporate more support for
mentors.
My partnership that I had towork with Natalie and Rodney
were probably two of the likegroundbreakers on trying out
different strategies and ideasthat I focus on in the book, and
I actually have stories fromthem in the book as well, and
(06:16):
I'll never forget us sittingaround the table talking about,
like, how we can support Natalieand some of her reading with
her students, and also hearingRodney asking questions as well
and thinking about how he couldlearn alongside Natalie too, and
I'll never forget him sharinglike, yeah, I think that's great
(06:41):
that you're working on Natalie.
I think it was like with herlessons and stuff at the start
of her workshop time, but he'slike, but I feel like I need
some support you know as welltowards like, how do I debrief
with kids?
How do we like celebrate ourwork and our reading growth?
And so I was just like I don'tknow.
That's always stuck with me,thinking that mentors can learn
(07:01):
alongside the new teachers thatthey work with and just being
open, I guess.
So I'll just never forget someof those conversations having
with them and I've gotten tohave the pleasure of so many
other mentors that have beenvery similar in that thought
process, as they've been open tothinking about.
The approach that I showcase is, like you know, the mentoring
(07:21):
support is not just for the newteachers, it's for us as well.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Like you know, the our roles, we can sometimes feel
siloed or alone, and it'simportant to have your network
to be able to like, bounce ideasand reflect with, which helps
me to, you know, as a coach andmentor, just thinking through
like, oh, maybe I should haveapproached this in a different
(08:10):
way or this really hit the nailon the head this time.
So, and then when that impact,you see the impact in the
classroom, it's, it's amazing.
One of the strategies that youmentioned quite a bit is asking
questions as a practice, andthat I mean I love asking
(08:31):
questions and, like some of ourbackground, christine and I have
, you know, teach, have taughtin IB schools, and the inquiry
process is the way you teach,and so developing and asking the
right types of questions andall types of questions is a
skill that has to be developedas a coach and mentor, and so
(08:53):
can you talk about that withinyour practice?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So I'm glad you mentioned that, like both, coach
, mentor because for me,especially my 10 years as an
instructional coach, that's, Ithink, the skill I continually
worked towards developing as acoach, not just in my work with
new teachers, but also just formyself, you know, professionally
(09:18):
and learning in myconversations, which is why I
focus so heavily on it as one ofthe strategies of the book as
well and student-centeredmentoring.
That philosophy it's alsoweeded throughout all the other
strategies, because it's justsuch a powerful skill that we
can develop, and one of thethings that I learned early on
(09:40):
with working with differentpartnerships and mentors is they
felt like they needed to havethe answers for their new
teachers, but rather how can wework alongside them and ask the
questions to put the learning intheir hands?
Because it's kind of like withstudents as well, like if we
take away the learning for them,are they going to truly
(10:02):
transfer that skill or strategyor idea.
And so I feel like for us to beable to truly embody that
philosophy as teachers in theclassroom.
We also have to do thatwhenever we're having
conversations with ourcolleagues, and so I focus on it
as a strategy in the text asmore so how do we ask questions
(10:27):
to determine the appropriatetype of support?
And I actually have like aquadrant it's actually more like
a compass that I kind ofrelated to like directions, like
you have your differentcategories of support, and so,
thinking about how mentors canask new teachers questions
around emotional support, whichis your north I think that's
(10:48):
like a very important one andthinking about also asking
questions around communication,like that's another one that's
really important.
Of course, instruction is alsoreally key as well, and I think
that by doing the questioningaround like those categories, it
helps them to be moreintentional, more focused, more
(11:08):
specific, rather than thatgeneral, just like how's it
going or what do you need helpwith?
Right, because sometimes youknow new teachers, they don't
know what they don't know yet,and so it's like hard to decide
like what questions to ask.
And then teachers even a coupleof new teachers have taken that
practice and actuallyincorporated that in their
(11:30):
classrooms and tried like thedirectional kind of areas with
their kids.
It's actually something thatPiper Lindsay and I are
incorporating in one of thehabits of a new book that we're
working on, habits for ResilientLearners, and because it just
has a lot of power, I thinkbehind it by being more
intentional and open with kindof different ideas of us talking
(11:54):
through things.
So that's kind of where I thinkthe asking questions is the
start of, but then within allthe other strategies it's weaved
throughout because, like Imentioned, I think questioning
is such an important skill thatwe could all use.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, that sounds really interesting.
I'd love to hear more about it.
So we're talking about phrasingreally good questions
themselves and knowing how toleverage that for the different
kinds of support.
Do you think the way that youask questions or the timing of
when you're asking questionsalso plays a really big role in
(12:30):
the whole mentoring approach aswell?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Oh, of course, you know I think that you hit on
something really important onlike that timing.
You're going to probably wantto come out the gate asking
clarifying questions to maybehave a better understanding of
what maybe the new teacherstried, or teachers what they've
tried in their classroom withtheir students.
So I think it kind of dominoesinto all of that.
(12:54):
But then you have to be open tolistening to what are some of
those types of needs, becauseyou know I've helped support the
partnerships where they cantake that compass in like a
table and have different ideasthat they can talk through and
ask questions like where do youthink you might need some
support in?
But you could also take it adifferent approach of clarifying
(13:18):
and just saying you know whatis something that you've been
working on today and have a moreof an idea of you know where
they're trying something out andor you know maybe something
that didn't go well and then youcan listen in for where the
areas of need might be.
So I think that that's animportant component of that is
(13:38):
also just listening and hearingwhat they're having to say.
And then you mentioned too,like timing, and I say that not
just in the beginning, but Ithink it's also important to ask
questions throughout, you know,to help learn alongside them.
Now, going back to our pointthat we've made earlier, is, you
know, is there a moment wherewe can learn something from a
(14:00):
new teacher and somethingthey've tried?
Or by problem solving?
You know, a certain need thatthey may have, because it's very
possible that something thatthey've had happen in their
classroom may not have happenedwith us yet in our classrooms,
but it could right.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, that's interesting to think of it that
way too, like things that Ioften make the assumption that,
oh, I experienced this in myclassroom.
You probably have innovativemindset, which, depending on a
(14:52):
teacher's experience orbackground, you know we're all
in different places with ourmindsets, and so I'd love to
hear about your experience withjust working with newer teachers
and what kind of thinkingpatterns arise around their own
support that they're getting,but then also what that looks
like and sounds like in theirclassroom experience.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yes, so mindset, honestly, is a very big topic to
think through with that,because I think you can go
through a learning mindset as,like one category.
I also can look at it as, inthat you know, positive mindset
and like that hope andwillingness to continue to move
(15:38):
forward as being important, andso there's a couple of different
directions there to go with thelearning mindset.
I think I start with first,because you mentioned the
strategy that I have in herearound like growing an
innovative mindset, and I kindof have it like as a progression
based off of George Kouros'work as well as Carol Dweck kind
(16:00):
of in there, with that growthmindset being as part of that.
But I think the opposite end ofthe spectrum of those two is
that fixed mindset, and what Isometimes sense with some even
experienced teachers is thatthey might have more of that
fixed mindset in the sense ofokay, I've learned a whole bunch
of things already.
(16:20):
Fixed mindset in the sense of,okay, I've learned a whole bunch
of things already, I just wantto keep doing this because it
seems to be working, rather thanthere's always room for growth
and change to happen and so wecan always be continually
learning, and so I think that'swhere that's kind of a big piece
.
And so when you look at that askind of like on a balanced
(16:41):
scale, you're also, if you'remore in that fixed mindset,
you're more negative, you'remore unwilling or also can get
down very quickly or very easily, and so I think that can really
impact your demeanor, it canreally much impact your
willingness to want to keeptrying and problem solve,
(17:03):
whereas the other end of thespectrum that I've seen a lot is
, as teachers grow towards thatmore growth and innovator side,
they're more hopeful, they'remore willing to ask questions,
they're more willing to learn inthat space as well, alongside
others.
(17:26):
And so I think it's reallyimportant to open up that
conversation with both newteachers and mentors, because
sometimes you see it a lot withmentors too is they get very set
in their ways and they can beon that fixed side, and then if
they're working with the newteachers and the new teachers
then start to, you know, developthat same mindset if they may
not have had it before.
So I've seen a lot of mixturesof where teachers fall within
that it could be that you havethe new teachers that are like,
(17:48):
willing and hopeful to learnanything and everything, as they
, you know, are fresh out of thegate.
We also have the new ones thatare just like I just want to try
everything I've been learningas I've been going to school.
I think I've got it, you know,let me try it out.
And we do have some that arealso like I think I've got it,
just leave me, leave me be, andso it's.
(18:09):
I think it's important for us todevelop that collaboration, no
matter where we fall and wantingto be more growth and
innovative, and so that's kindof I think that big philosophy
of the student center mentoringis being collaborative around
the impact that we have onstudents and so just being open
to talk about students, beingopen to problem solve with each
(18:31):
other, and I encourageespecially this particular
strategy to be also used in theclassroom with kids.
You know, open the door to talkabout learning with kids, and
so many of the strategies themajority of them that's the kind
of intention behind it is let'sthink about how we can also
(18:52):
develop this with our studentsin our classroom communities and
build that as well.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So I was going to ask you about how we can move on
from the fixed mindset, but Ifeel like you kind of touched on
that already, can I ask you?
So you've talked aboutmentoring, you've talked about
instructional coaching andyou're working now as a
consultant.
Can you tell us a little bitabout, like the differences
between those?
When should we reach out to onestyle rather than another style
(19:20):
?
How do we know who to go to forsome help along the way?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Oh, I don't know if I know the full answer of that,
but I can try because I thinkthere's a lot of ways to do that
.
So if I was, let's just say,for example, if I was a new
teacher and I need to have somesupport or help, it might be
multiple people that I go to.
It might be going to my mentorasking for support.
(19:46):
Also, if you're lucky enough tohave an instructional coach to
bring them into the mix andsupport.
I'm a big lover and believer ofstudent-centered coaching as
well, which is kind of anotherway that I kind of birthed the
idea of student-centeredcoaching as well, which is kind
of another way that I kind ofbirthed the idea of
student-centered mentoring.
And so I think that, as a newteacher, being very willing to
(20:08):
jump on to having a coachingcycle, which is part of that
philosophy of student-centeredcoaching, is to jump on to
getting that support.
And then, you know, in theconsultant realm of all the
things that I have available isjust, you know, reading,
learning, if you get to have theopportunity to go to a session
(20:30):
that I've done at a conference,or if I get to do work with your
school district, because I dotrainings with mentors and new
teachers as well, then thatwould be another avenue that I
would say it would be veryimportant to learn more about.
And I think the big thing is isthat, on the education
consulting side, is how can Ihelp develop my understanding of
(20:52):
my collaborative partnership,of what I can try to help
support us in that?
So that's where, then, I'd alsoencourage mentors to think
about.
This work is how can I helpdevelop my partnership with a
new teacher or future newteachers that I work with?
Because that's something thatit's different, I think, too,
than my approach.
It's not necessarily likehere's the instructional
(21:13):
checklist of what to workthrough them a month by month.
It's more about how do I reallydevelop that partnership that
provides that support, becausethere's so many things out there
lists, ideas about the way ofteaching and really we don't
focus a lot on how to supportthat collaboration of that
(21:35):
mentoring partnership.
So I think that's what'sdifferent about my work, and so
I would definitely look at allthe different things that can be
possible through that and maybeeven, as a mentor and a teacher
, look at what are other ways Ican help develop my partnership,
because, you know, this isn'tthe only text that's going to
help support that.
There's lots of different toolsand resources out there, so I
(21:58):
think that's the other big idea.
Does that answer that question?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, and I think too , it's such a valid thing to
think about someone like you whohas the expertise in this
specific niche, that's outsideof the school, right, like this
is just your only focus of thiswork, instead of like sometimes
you know, instructional coachesare kind of are pulled in all
(22:24):
directions and different, evenas a literacy coach, but you
know you're working withdifferent grades I feel like
when you come in front as anoutside person, you have like a
linear focus, sort of you know,like it just feels more focused.
So there's so much benefit tothat.
We are already at the pointwhere we are kind of wrapping up
(22:46):
the episode.
Conversations go super quick,but we always ask our guests for
a pare down pointer, and so weare interested to hear what
yours is for listeners.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
So whenever I read that question at first I was
like gosh, there's so manypointers I could give right.
So I would actually say that Ithink mine is blocking time and
I think this kind of connectsback to that innovative mindset
and then, just as a mindset ofwhat do I have time to do, what
(23:24):
do I also not have control of inmy time that's kind of how I
approach it with the strategy inthe book, but I feel like it's
been something that is a pointerthat I've used throughout all
of my roles as a teacher.
I tried to always allocatespecific blocks of time for
certain tasks that I knew werelike a really important task.
(23:46):
Then I went in as a literacycoach and I also would do that,
especially on my calendar, likeif I knew that I needed to spend
an hour prepping some you knowcollaboration materials, I made
sure to have that blocked on mycalendar, like before school
would start, so that I wouldn'tget distracted by something else
, because there's so many thingsand as a teacher there were
(24:08):
always so many things.
I still do that as a consultanttoo.
So that's, I think that's askill, that or strategy that
I've learned, because there's mylist is like as long as long
can be, as I'm sure everybody'sis, and I remember that as a
teacher because there's my listis like as long as long can be,
as I'm sure everybody's is, andI remember that as a teacher,
like I love Post-its and I wouldhave all these lists of
different things and it's likeyou can get very easily bogged
(24:31):
down right and get maybe evenoverwhelmed.
So that would probably be likejust blocking time to do
specific tasks to make sure thatI, you know, spent time doing
something.
That's probably my big tip.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, thank you.
It is such an important skillto have and it is so easy to get
lost in the list of things thatyou know.
The list doesn't ever reallyget shorter, honestly, it just
changes.
So, yeah, the time blocking issuper helpful.
Thank you for the conversation,amanda.
It was great talking to you.
(25:08):
I'm sure we'll have you on theshow again to talk about more
around student-centeredmentoring.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yes, I'd be glad to Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
This episode is sponsored by AC Brueggemann
Consulting.
Sponsored by AC BrueggemannConsulting, led by Amanda
Brueggemann, they help schools,support new teachers while
keeping students at the heart oflearning.
Explore her book Courses inConsulting at
amandabrueggemanncom.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(25:55):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on a less ismore approach to education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your School
Leadership.
Edit a minimalist approach torethinking your school ecosystem
each week as they explorepractical ways to simplify your
(00:36):
work, sharpen your focus andamplify what matters most so you
can teach and lead with greaterclarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
On this week's episode, we are joined by Dr
Amanda Brueggemann to talk aboutstudent-centered coaching.
Her pare-down pointer is totime block all of those
important tasks.
Dr Amanda Brueggemann hasdedicated over 20 years to
education, beginning her careeras an elementary classroom
teacher and later serving as aliteracy coach.
(01:07):
She trains instructionalcoaches in student-centred
coaching and providesprofessional learning for new
teacher mentors, drawing fromher book Student-Centred
Mentoring Keeping Students atthe Heart of New Teachers'
Learning.
She earned her doctorate inteacher leadership from
Maryville University, where shealso serves as an adjunct
professor leadership fromMaryville University, where she
also serves as an adjunctprofessor.
She is working on her upcomingbook Habits of Resilient
(01:28):
Learners Strategies forExcelling in Challenging Times,
with co-authors LindsayPrendergast and Piper Lee.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome everyone to today's episode of the
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Today, christine and I aretalking with Dr Amanda
Brueggemann, who is aneducational consultant and
author of the bookStudent-Centered Mentoring, and
so we're excited to talk to hertoday because this episode is
(01:56):
going to be very timely with thestart of the new school year
and providing support forteachers as well as students.
Welcome to the show, amanda.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to get to joinyou all today.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Thank you for being here.
We are excited to talk aboutthis topic because, well, for
lots of reasons, but thestudent-centered mentoring piece
of your writing is particularlyinteresting.
Centered mentoring piece ofyour writing is particularly
interesting.
But before we get into that,can you just tell us a little
bit about how you kind of cameto that piece of into your
(02:34):
expertise, like what led you tothat?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well, my background started off as an elementary
classroom teacher.
I started off doing fourth andfifth grade and I had the
pleasure of getting to have acouple of student teachers and
supervise, through some adjunctwork I had done at the time,
some newer teachers, and then Iwent into my role as a literacy
(02:58):
coach for our school district,where at the time I was across
four of our buildings.
I was a district coach.
We had the pleasure of beingone of the fastest growing
districts in the state ofMissouri and lots of new
teachers came along with thatright.
And it also came with theuncovering of some needs that we
had around mentoring and tryingto provide some mentor support.
(03:21):
Provide some mentor support.
Whenever I first started, ournew teachers were assigned a
mentor, but they were just kindof given like a checklist and
kind of a guidebook of likehere's some things, and so
that's where I started reallythinking about how can we
provide support for new teachers?
That also includes the supportfor mentors, but yet in a way
(03:43):
that's different, because thetraditional, you know, way of
mentoring is a veryteacher-centered approach and I
felt like we had to do somethingdifferent because at that time
we were still, you know, needingto think about how do we retain
teachers.
And then you know, as we allknow, that has since increased
as a need is retaining teachersin our profession.
(04:03):
And so through that researchthough that I did that work
around like thinking aboutsupport for mentoring, I found
that the number one reason why alot of teachers leave our
profession is because they don'tfeel supported.
And it could be a range ofsupport, it could be a support
from their colleagues, fromtheir administrators.
It also could be familiar,familial, from families and
(04:28):
parents and that support thatthey need.
But that was the number onereason actually and so that's
kind of where this came to birthis that I just felt like I
needed to try somethingdifferent.
So and I had a lot of fun withgetting to do that, getting to
work with a lot of differentteachers and so I just recently
(04:48):
decided to step out and do justconsulting, but I still adjunct,
so I actually teach anundergrad class, a master's
class and a doctoral class, sothat way I can still have a lot
of hand and thinking and talkingaround different ideas with
teachers, future teachersespecially.
(05:08):
That's probably actually mymost fun group.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Wow, that's.
That's very awesome.
It's great to hear that you'redoing that important work of
looking into how we can keepmore of our colleagues in the
profession for longer.
Very important work.
Can you share with us like areally special moment from your
mentoring experiences that hasreally stuck with you?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
There's so many Because I have to say for myself
even, it's probably been one ofthe best things to have like a
mentor, to have someone tocollaborate with.
So, for myself, like, I have alot of different ones, but I
would actually probably want tohighlight back when I started
(05:55):
thinking about how can weincorporate more support for
mentors.
My partnership that I had towork with Natalie and Rodney
were probably two of the likegroundbreakers on trying out
different strategies and ideasthat I focus on in the book, and
I actually have stories fromthem in the book as well, and
(06:16):
I'll never forget us sittingaround the table talking about,
like, how we can support Natalieand some of her reading with
her students, and also hearingRodney asking questions as well
and thinking about how he couldlearn alongside Natalie too, and
I'll never forget him sharinglike, yeah, I think that's great
(06:41):
that you're working on Natalie.
I think it was like with herlessons and stuff at the start
of her workshop time, but he'slike, but I feel like I need
some support you know as welltowards like, how do I debrief
with kids?
How do we like celebrate ourwork and our reading growth?
And so I was just like I don'tknow.
That's always stuck with me,thinking that mentors can learn
(07:01):
alongside the new teachers thatthey work with and just being
open, I guess.
So I'll just never forget someof those conversations having
with them and I've gotten tohave the pleasure of so many
other mentors that have beenvery similar in that thought
process, as they've been open tothinking about.
The approach that I showcase is, like you know, the mentoring
(07:21):
support is not just for the newteachers, it's for us as well.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Like you know, the our roles, we can sometimes feel
siloed or alone, and it'simportant to have your network
to be able to like, bounce ideasand reflect with, which helps
me to, you know, as a coach andmentor, just thinking through
like, oh, maybe I should haveapproached this in a different
(08:10):
way or this really hit the nailon the head this time.
So, and then when that impact,you see the impact in the
classroom, it's, it's amazing.
One of the strategies that youmentioned quite a bit is asking
questions as a practice, andthat I mean I love asking
(08:31):
questions and, like some of ourbackground, christine and I have
, you know, teach, have taughtin IB schools, and the inquiry
process is the way you teach,and so developing and asking the
right types of questions andall types of questions is a
skill that has to be developedas a coach and mentor, and so
(08:53):
can you talk about that withinyour practice?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So I'm glad you mentioned that, like both, coach
, mentor because for me,especially my 10 years as an
instructional coach, that's, Ithink, the skill I continually
worked towards developing as acoach, not just in my work with
new teachers, but also just formyself, you know, professionally
(09:18):
and learning in myconversations, which is why I
focus so heavily on it as one ofthe strategies of the book as
well and student-centeredmentoring.
That philosophy it's alsoweeded throughout all the other
strategies, because it's justsuch a powerful skill that we
can develop, and one of thethings that I learned early on
(09:40):
with working with differentpartnerships and mentors is they
felt like they needed to havethe answers for their new
teachers, but rather how can wework alongside them and ask the
questions to put the learning intheir hands?
Because it's kind of like withstudents as well, like if we
take away the learning for them,are they going to truly
(10:02):
transfer that skill or strategyor idea.
And so I feel like for us to beable to truly embody that
philosophy as teachers in theclassroom.
We also have to do thatwhenever we're having
conversations with ourcolleagues, and so I focus on it
as a strategy in the text asmore so how do we ask questions
(10:27):
to determine the appropriatetype of support?
And I actually have like aquadrant it's actually more like
a compass that I kind ofrelated to like directions, like
you have your differentcategories of support, and so,
thinking about how mentors canask new teachers questions
around emotional support, whichis your north I think that's
(10:48):
like a very important one andthinking about also asking
questions around communication,like that's another one that's
really important.
Of course, instruction is alsoreally key as well, and I think
that by doing the questioningaround like those categories, it
helps them to be moreintentional, more focused, more
(11:08):
specific, rather than thatgeneral, just like how's it
going or what do you need helpwith?
Right, because sometimes youknow new teachers, they don't
know what they don't know yet,and so it's like hard to decide
like what questions to ask.
And then teachers even a coupleof new teachers have taken that
practice and actuallyincorporated that in their
(11:30):
classrooms and tried like thedirectional kind of areas with
their kids.
It's actually something thatPiper Lindsay and I are
incorporating in one of thehabits of a new book that we're
working on, habits for ResilientLearners, and because it just
has a lot of power, I thinkbehind it by being more
intentional and open with kindof different ideas of us talking
(11:54):
through things.
So that's kind of where I thinkthe asking questions is the
start of, but then within allthe other strategies it's weaved
throughout because, like Imentioned, I think questioning
is such an important skill thatwe could all use.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, that sounds really interesting.
I'd love to hear more about it.
So we're talking about phrasingreally good questions
themselves and knowing how toleverage that for the different
kinds of support.
Do you think the way that youask questions or the timing of
when you're asking questionsalso plays a really big role in
(12:30):
the whole mentoring approach aswell?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Oh, of course, you know I think that you hit on
something really important onlike that timing.
You're going to probably wantto come out the gate asking
clarifying questions to maybehave a better understanding of
what maybe the new teacherstried, or teachers what they've
tried in their classroom withtheir students.
So I think it kind of dominoesinto all of that.
(12:54):
But then you have to be open tolistening to what are some of
those types of needs, becauseyou know I've helped support the
partnerships where they cantake that compass in like a
table and have different ideasthat they can talk through and
ask questions like where do youthink you might need some
support in?
But you could also take it adifferent approach of clarifying
(13:18):
and just saying you know whatis something that you've been
working on today and have a moreof an idea of you know where
they're trying something out andor you know maybe something
that didn't go well and then youcan listen in for where the
areas of need might be.
So I think that that's animportant component of that is
(13:38):
also just listening and hearingwhat they're having to say.
And then you mentioned too,like timing, and I say that not
just in the beginning, but Ithink it's also important to ask
questions throughout, you know,to help learn alongside them.
Now, going back to our pointthat we've made earlier, is, you
know, is there a moment wherewe can learn something from a
(14:00):
new teacher and somethingthey've tried?
Or by problem solving?
You know, a certain need thatthey may have, because it's very
possible that something thatthey've had happen in their
classroom may not have happenedwith us yet in our classrooms,
but it could right.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, that's interesting to think of it that
way too, like things that Ioften make the assumption that,
oh, I experienced this in myclassroom.
You probably have innovativemindset, which, depending on a
(14:52):
teacher's experience orbackground, you know we're all
in different places with ourmindsets, and so I'd love to
hear about your experience withjust working with newer teachers
and what kind of thinkingpatterns arise around their own
support that they're getting,but then also what that looks
like and sounds like in theirclassroom experience.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yes, so mindset, honestly, is a very big topic to
think through with that,because I think you can go
through a learning mindset as,like one category.
I also can look at it as, inthat you know, positive mindset
and like that hope andwillingness to continue to move
(15:38):
forward as being important, andso there's a couple of different
directions there to go with thelearning mindset.
I think I start with first,because you mentioned the
strategy that I have in herearound like growing an
innovative mindset, and I kindof have it like as a progression
based off of George Kouros'work as well as Carol Dweck kind
(16:00):
of in there, with that growthmindset being as part of that.
But I think the opposite end ofthe spectrum of those two is
that fixed mindset, and what Isometimes sense with some even
experienced teachers is thatthey might have more of that
fixed mindset in the sense ofokay, I've learned a whole bunch
of things already.
(16:20):
Fixed mindset in the sense of,okay, I've learned a whole bunch
of things already, I just wantto keep doing this because it
seems to be working, rather thanthere's always room for growth
and change to happen and so wecan always be continually
learning, and so I think that'swhere that's kind of a big piece
.
And so when you look at that askind of like on a balanced
(16:41):
scale, you're also, if you'remore in that fixed mindset,
you're more negative, you'remore unwilling or also can get
down very quickly or very easily, and so I think that can really
impact your demeanor, it canreally much impact your
willingness to want to keeptrying and problem solve,
(17:03):
whereas the other end of thespectrum that I've seen a lot is
, as teachers grow towards thatmore growth and innovator side,
they're more hopeful, they'remore willing to ask questions,
they're more willing to learn inthat space as well, alongside
others.
(17:26):
And so I think it's reallyimportant to open up that
conversation with both newteachers and mentors, because
sometimes you see it a lot withmentors too is they get very set
in their ways and they can beon that fixed side, and then if
they're working with the newteachers and the new teachers
then start to, you know, developthat same mindset if they may
not have had it before.
So I've seen a lot of mixturesof where teachers fall within
that it could be that you havethe new teachers that are like,
(17:48):
willing and hopeful to learnanything and everything, as they
, you know, are fresh out of thegate.
We also have the new ones thatare just like I just want to try
everything I've been learningas I've been going to school.
I think I've got it, you know,let me try it out.
And we do have some that arealso like I think I've got it,
just leave me, leave me be, andso it's.
(18:09):
I think it's important for us todevelop that collaboration, no
matter where we fall and wantingto be more growth and
innovative, and so that's kindof I think that big philosophy
of the student center mentoringis being collaborative around
the impact that we have onstudents and so just being open
to talk about students, beingopen to problem solve with each
(18:31):
other, and I encourageespecially this particular
strategy to be also used in theclassroom with kids.
You know, open the door to talkabout learning with kids, and
so many of the strategies themajority of them that's the kind
of intention behind it is let'sthink about how we can also
(18:52):
develop this with our studentsin our classroom communities and
build that as well.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So I was going to ask you about how we can move on
from the fixed mindset, but Ifeel like you kind of touched on
that already, can I ask you?
So you've talked aboutmentoring, you've talked about
instructional coaching andyou're working now as a
consultant.
Can you tell us a little bitabout, like the differences
between those?
When should we reach out to onestyle rather than another style
(19:20):
?
How do we know who to go to forsome help along the way?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Oh, I don't know if I know the full answer of that,
but I can try because I thinkthere's a lot of ways to do that
.
So if I was, let's just say,for example, if I was a new
teacher and I need to have somesupport or help, it might be
multiple people that I go to.
It might be going to my mentorasking for support.
(19:46):
Also, if you're lucky enough tohave an instructional coach to
bring them into the mix andsupport.
I'm a big lover and believer ofstudent-centered coaching as
well, which is kind of anotherway that I kind of birthed the
idea of student-centeredcoaching as well, which is kind
of another way that I kind ofbirthed the idea of
student-centered mentoring.
And so I think that, as a newteacher, being very willing to
(20:08):
jump on to having a coachingcycle, which is part of that
philosophy of student-centeredcoaching, is to jump on to
getting that support.
And then, you know, in theconsultant realm of all the
things that I have available isjust, you know, reading,
learning, if you get to have theopportunity to go to a session
(20:30):
that I've done at a conference,or if I get to do work with your
school district, because I dotrainings with mentors and new
teachers as well, then thatwould be another avenue that I
would say it would be veryimportant to learn more about.
And I think the big thing is isthat, on the education
consulting side, is how can Ihelp develop my understanding of
(20:52):
my collaborative partnership,of what I can try to help
support us in that?
So that's where, then, I'd alsoencourage mentors to think
about.
This work is how can I helpdevelop my partnership with a
new teacher or future newteachers that I work with?
Because that's something thatit's different, I think, too,
than my approach.
It's not necessarily likehere's the instructional
(21:13):
checklist of what to workthrough them a month by month.
It's more about how do I reallydevelop that partnership that
provides that support, becausethere's so many things out there
lists, ideas about the way ofteaching and really we don't
focus a lot on how to supportthat collaboration of that
(21:35):
mentoring partnership.
So I think that's what'sdifferent about my work, and so
I would definitely look at allthe different things that can be
possible through that and maybeeven, as a mentor and a teacher
, look at what are other ways Ican help develop my partnership,
because, you know, this isn'tthe only text that's going to
help support that.
There's lots of different toolsand resources out there, so I
(21:58):
think that's the other big idea.
Does that answer that question?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, and I think too , it's such a valid thing to
think about someone like you whohas the expertise in this
specific niche, that's outsideof the school, right, like this
is just your only focus of thiswork, instead of like sometimes
you know, instructional coachesare kind of are pulled in all
(22:24):
directions and different, evenas a literacy coach, but you
know you're working withdifferent grades I feel like
when you come in front as anoutside person, you have like a
linear focus, sort of you know,like it just feels more focused.
So there's so much benefit tothat.
We are already at the pointwhere we are kind of wrapping up
(22:46):
the episode.
Conversations go super quick,but we always ask our guests for
a pare down pointer, and so weare interested to hear what
yours is for listeners.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
So whenever I read that question at first I was
like gosh, there's so manypointers I could give right.
So I would actually say that Ithink mine is blocking time and
I think this kind of connectsback to that innovative mindset
and then, just as a mindset ofwhat do I have time to do, what
(23:24):
do I also not have control of inmy time that's kind of how I
approach it with the strategy inthe book, but I feel like it's
been something that is a pointerthat I've used throughout all
of my roles as a teacher.
I tried to always allocatespecific blocks of time for
certain tasks that I knew werelike a really important task.
(23:46):
Then I went in as a literacycoach and I also would do that,
especially on my calendar, likeif I knew that I needed to spend
an hour prepping some you knowcollaboration materials, I made
sure to have that blocked on mycalendar, like before school
would start, so that I wouldn'tget distracted by something else
, because there's so many thingsand as a teacher there were
(24:08):
always so many things.
I still do that as a consultanttoo.
So that's, I think that's askill, that or strategy that
I've learned, because there's mylist is like as long as long
can be, as I'm sure everybody'sis, and I remember that as a
teacher because there's my listis like as long as long can be,
as I'm sure everybody's is, andI remember that as a teacher,
like I love Post-its and I wouldhave all these lists of
different things and it's likeyou can get very easily bogged
(24:31):
down right and get maybe evenoverwhelmed.
So that would probably be likejust blocking time to do
specific tasks to make sure thatI, you know, spent time doing
something.
That's probably my big tip.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, thank you.
It is such an important skillto have and it is so easy to get
lost in the list of things thatyou know.
The list doesn't ever reallyget shorter, honestly, it just
changes.
So, yeah, the time blocking issuper helpful.
Thank you for the conversation,amanda.
It was great talking to you.
(25:08):
I'm sure we'll have you on theshow again to talk about more
around student-centeredmentoring.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yes, I'd be glad to Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
This episode is sponsored by AC Brueggemann
Consulting.
Sponsored by AC BrueggemannConsulting, led by Amanda
Brueggemann, they help schools,support new teachers while
keeping students at the heart oflearning.
Explore her book Courses inConsulting at
amandabrueggemanncom.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(25:55):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Thank you.
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