November 11, 2025 • 31 mins
What if your greatest leadership move is not to add, but to edit? We share the thinking behind our new book, Your School Leadership Edit, and walk through a practical framework that helps you simplify systems, protect your time, and raise instructional impact without burning out your team.
We break down the Five Rs—reimagining, removing, repurposing, reinvesting, and refining—and show how they apply to the big structures that shape daily school life: communication, expectations, teacher support, time use, and family participation. You will hear why “edit” is our guiding metaphor, how to subtract redundant work with confidence, and where to reinvest those reclaimed minutes and dollars for the biggest gains. Expect concrete moves like time audits, meeting redesigns, clearer definitions of “done,” and small process tweaks that compound into calmer days and stronger results.
We also connect this minimalist approach to unlearning: questioning habits that survive out of tradition rather than evidence. Perfection is not the goal; reliability is. That means shipping minimum viable processes, refining what matters, and resisting the urge to polish forever. Along the way, we share personal shifts—like ditching a bloated digital task list for paper planning—and point you to free digital tools that accompany each chapter so you can take action right away.
If you’re a principal, AP, coach, department head, or teacher leader who wants fewer initiatives and better outcomes, this conversation offers a clear path forward. Subscribe, share this with a colleague who needs breathing room, and leave a review to help more leaders find a simpler, more intentional way to run their schools.
Find our book The Minimalist Teacher and Your School Leadership Edit: A Minimalist Approach to Rethinking Your School's Ecosystem at the links!
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast,
where the focus is on a less ismore approach to education.
Join your hosts, ChristineArnold and Tammy Musiowski,
authors of The MinimalistTeacher and your school
leadership edit, a minimalistapproach to rethinking your
school ecosystem, each week asthey explore practical ways to
simplify your work, sharpen yourfocus, and amplify what matters
(00:40):
most so you can teach and leadwith greater clarity, purpose,
and joy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast.
Today's episode is extra specialfor us.
We're giving you a little bit ofa behind-the-scenes look at our
upcoming new book.
We are very excited to sharewith you what you could expect
when reading the new book.
So let's dive in.
Hello everyone, and welcome totoday's episode of the
(01:09):
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Today I am here with Tammy.
How are you today, Tammy?
I am doing well, Christine.
How are you?
I'm very well, thank you.
Excited to get to talk toeveryone about our project that
we've been working on.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Yes, yes.
The timeline is finally here.
I mean, we've been workingthrough a timeline for a while,
but now we're getting to thatpoint where this little project
is coming out into the world.
And we're just we're gonna talkthrough some pieces of this
(01:46):
piece of writing we did.
Someone was asking me the otherday about like the writing
process, and I was saying how westarted it long ago.
I think it was the end of 2022or something like that.
So it was like, you know, like ayear-ish or something after the
first book came out.
(02:07):
Was it that long?
Was it?
I think it was.
I think it was end of 2022, butwe let it sit there for quite a
while because we weren't sure ifwe were going to kind of dig
into this school leadershiplandscape.
But then we did.
We did, and we smashed it out.
(02:28):
We did.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
So, yes, we're talking about our new book that
is coming out.
It is called Your SchoolLeadership Edit: A Minimalist
Approach to Rethinking YourSchool Ecosystem.
And its release date is November17th, 2025.
So if you're listening to thatafter this date, you can go out
(02:50):
and grab your copy straightaway.
But by the time this episodeairs, we should we should be
able to do some pre-orders.
If you feel like it, it shouldbe available there for
pre-orders.
But we're really happy to see onthe publisher's website that
there is a preview of the bookalready available.
So if you wanted to have alittle look at a part of the
(03:12):
book, it is there ready andavailable to preview already.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Yeah, there's a nice little surprise to see that
there.
One of the things that we dotalk about in the intro chapter
is like how to read the book.
Like, yes, we want you to readthe prologue and the intro so
(03:39):
you get the foundation, but thenyou can kind of pick and choose
which chapters to read based onwhat your need is.
So, and that's how I tend toread professional books
sometimes, at least like withaudio.
But then I I always get the hardcopy after because I'm like, oh,
I need to like go back to thatchapter because this piece like
(03:59):
really stood out to me.
So it's not meant to be readnecessarily front to back.
You could, but you can yeah,choose your own adventure,
choose the chapters that speakto you, and really, really, we
want this to be a guide forschool leaders to make some
(04:20):
changes, right?
So, like kind of like the firstbook that we did, like we're not
asking anyone to do somethingcrazy or new or anything like
that, but really evaluate yoursystems and from that high level
school level, because thatimpacts everyday life in a
classroom as well.
(04:40):
So, you know, it's it's reallyjust evaluating what we do and
how can we make it better andand streamline and simplify for
ourselves because you know,there's a lot of stuff that goes
on in schools.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
There is, and that was really the thinking behind
the title, wasn't it?
Using the word edit and thinkingabout how when you edit
something you're doing, you'rereally cutting down the pieces
that aren't necessary or aren'tquite right to create the best
final product that you can.
(05:14):
And we really like that thinkingwhen it comes to school
leadership, because there is somuch that can be involved, but
is all of it necessary for thebest approach to your work and
your life, really, as well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah, exactly.
And then that I've already hadwith some people about what the
premise of the book is and whoit's for, I've been sharing
because it's your schoolleadership edit, right?
So when we think of schoolleadership, a lot of times we
think of principals andassistant principals, and it's
definitely for that audience,but it's really more than just
(05:51):
for principals and assistantprincipals.
It's anyone within the schoolparameters that has some kind of
leadership role.
So it might be a curriculumcoordinator or an instructional
coach or a teacher team lead ordepartment head.
So, really anybody who's uh arepresentative of the school and
(06:12):
helps make decisions for theschool and just so it's not
really, and it's not thatteachers can't read it, because
obviously anyone can, but it'snot specifically necessarily for
just school leaders.
So that's why school leadershipis, you know, it's more open
than just the role that you'rein, because we know that a lot
(06:34):
of people have leadership roleswithin a school.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Mm-hmm.
And beyond those that just havea title, everyone can be a
leader in a way as well.
Some of the things that we talkabout, just how you carry
yourself through your school daycan be so impactful on the
people around you.
So I think you know, everyonecan be a leader in a in a
(06:57):
certain way.
But you're right, but probablythe people who have some input
in decision making is isprobably the the target
audience, really.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
What should we dive into, Christine?
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Should we get into the the framework for the
strategies or yeah, I think theframework for sure, and then I
feel like it would beinteresting for people to hear a
little bit of the differentchapters as well.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
Okay.
So in this book, Christine andI, we love a framework, right?
Because frameworks, yeah, it's aguide.
We love an audit too.
So you'll find audits in thebook.
Audits everywhere, yeah.
Yes, because they're essentialwhen you're evaluating systems,
(07:44):
like you got to see what works,what doesn't.
And so we created a five five Rsframework.
In the first book, we have atriple P.
So that's your kind ofdecision-making funnel around
purpose, priorities, and paringdown.
And so you that appears in thisbook as well.
(08:05):
But because we're looking at bigpicture systems, we felt we need
to get a little bit deeper intosome of like how we can work
through systems.
So our five R framework consistsof reimagining, removing,
repurposing, reinvesting, andrefining.
(08:26):
So in each chapter, you'll findstrategies under those five Rs
for each of the editingchapters.
So, what do we want to talkabout first?
Should we talk aboutreimagining?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
So reimagining is really justthat, right?
(08:49):
Like you're taking a few momentsto, I don't want to say utopian,
but you know, like how couldthings be better and different?
Doesn't have to be perfect.
We're not talking aboutperfection.
We're talking about what'shappening in our school system,
(09:12):
structures.
What structures do we have?
And so maybe this is a goodpoint of to just kind of talk
about what the chapters are.
So each chapter is about editinglarge systems within a school.
So we have a chapter oncommunication, teacher support
systems, time use, yeah, familyparticipation.
(09:34):
So we, you know, we did lots ofbrainstorming around like these
are kind of the big, bigpictures, picture items in a
school.
But then also we conclude withsome structures for leadership,
leader well-being, because wecan't address all of this
professional stuff without alsotalking about meeting the needs
(09:56):
of leaders so that they aren'tgetting burnt out or feel alone
or anything like that.
So when we're talking aboutreimagining, we're looking at
these big picture structures.
unknown (10:09):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (10:09):
Yeah.
And I it I think it's animportant one because it would
be very easy to fall into, well,this is how we've always done it
in school environments.
And so reimagining is reallytrying to capture that idea of
what could it be like?
So we're really evaluatingwhat's currently happening, what
(10:32):
your your school vision is, whathow you've been working in your
systems, and then thinking aboutwhat it could be instead.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:42):
Yeah.
What's our next one?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Remove.
Let's talk about removing.
SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Yeah, which I think might be it seems like it would
be the easiest because it'slike, well, let's just not do
that anymore.
But we have a hard timegenerally as humans letting go.
We just do, right?
The the consensus is that we addthings on.
We want to do more.
(11:09):
We, you know, we sometimes thinkmore as better or bigger is
better, but there's researchthat says that's not the case.
And so let's think aboutsubtracting, doing less.
No, that doesn't necessarilymean the quality changes, right?
Probably your quality getsbetter if you're removing the
(11:32):
extraneous distractions and youknow, whatever is in the way of
doing something really wellwithin the school.
And so just in some of theschools that I've been visiting
recently, I'm seeing that soclearly because there are so
many things that clutter spaces.
(11:55):
Like mentally, I've had teacherscrying with me because they are
just so overwhelmed by all thethings, like everything.
And bottom of the list is oftenstudents, right?
So, like, yeah.
So, yeah, it's not so much aboutlike, yeah, there's things going
on with students, but for themost part, it's like, okay,
(12:19):
reports, I gotta write reportsand progress reports are, you
know, right before that.
And we I have to learn all themin these programs, and I don't
know how to, you know, likethere's a lot of that.
So that full piece of the editprocess should be taken really
seriously.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Absolutely.
And I think it parallels reallynicely with with the triple P in
the first book, thinking aboutthe paring down.
I think there's a really niceparallel there between the two
of you know what are the keythings that you need to keep,
but what then can you get rid ofthat is not helping you?
Because there is there areaspects of the work that we do
(13:01):
that are redundant andunnecessary.
And so you do really need tohave a rethink about that.
Yeah, most definitely.
And next up we have repurpose,repurposing.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:18):
I like this one, it makes me think of going to a
thrift shop and like finding uhsomebody's old stuff, and you're
gonna make a new thing out ofit.
It just yeah, it makes me thinkof like somebody else's junk as
someone else's treasure orwhatever that's saying is.
(13:38):
We're not necessarily doingthat, but that's what I think
of, right?
And it is kind of the processbecause you're like, well, what
is the thing that we're doingthat kind of works and has so
many pieces to it, but how arewe going to repurpose it for you
know, another thing or in adifferent way?
(14:00):
And so, and sorry, I'm gonnatangent here as I often do, but
it sometimes is hard to separateout some of our five R's, right?
Because in the repurposing,you're doing some rethinking,
you're gonna be doing somerefining.
So there is a lot of crossoverthere, but the repurposes, like,
(14:20):
yeah, what's right in front ofus, and like how are we going to
make this into something thatyou know it was supposed to be
for this, but now we're gonnamake it for this, which is very
creative, I think it is, it isfor sure.
SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
It is, but I think yeah, like that analogy of the
thrift shop because it's it's sotrue.
We do we do have things thatthat can be utilized and we
might not be utilizing it in thebest possible way right now.
So how can we how can we thinkabout this again and repurpose
it for something that's gonna bemore helpful?
Uh yeah, uh for sure.
(14:59):
And then next we have reinvest,which is not just about money.
It can incorporate that, butit's not just about money, it's
also about time spend, cognitiveeffort spend, effort spend, all
of that can be reinvested to bemore targeted, intentional.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Yes, absolutely.
I think you know, we're in abusiness of people, and so you
know, just in current role andthings that go on, I think about
what's going to be the bestreinvestment often of my time
(15:46):
because I work for differententities and everybody's systems
are different, and so I've hadto learn a lot of different
systems and documentations.
So I I went through like a timereinvestment like a month ago
because I was it was doing myhead in.
(16:07):
So I had to evaluate how my timewas getting spent and my energy.
So that was very helpful.
And I did feel like literallythere was a weight lifted from
my shoulders after I just kindof sat down and determined that
you know what, my enemy was myGoogle Calendar, and so I needed
(16:29):
to reinvest in the paper pencil.
I had to just stop putting tasksand it was hurting my eyeballs,
hurting my brain.
So I'm like, you know what?
I gotta, I gotta let my brainexercise in a different way
again and get hand paper.
So that reinvestment was worthit because I feel a lot better.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
That's so funny that you said that because I've gone
back to a bit of paper andpencil to-do lists as well.
Isn't that funny?
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
Thank you.
And I mean, I bought somecolorful pens, which are always
helps.
New stationery always helps.
Yeah, it was fun, it's been afun process.
I don't really have a rhyme orreason to the colors I use at
the moment because I just grabwhat's there, but it does yeah,
it's it's really helped my brainjust redoing that whole
(17:19):
structure.
So yeah, I like that.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
And then our final R is refine.
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
Yes.
So I'm this is kind of one whereI think we can get caught in it
because here we're talking aboutreflecting on and tweaking what
exists, you know, somesimilar-ish to the other five
R's.
But we can get caught in cyclesof too much reiteration or too
(17:54):
much refining, and and thismight come in, you know,
personality types can come intothat.
So we do have to be careful alittle bit, I think, in this
refinement, because again, we'renot talking about perfection,
we're talking about refining andrevising so that just those
(18:14):
little tweaks, and we can keepfinding those little tweaks
forever because there's alwayssomething.
So this one is you know, justthat last bit of refinement to
make sure things might startwith a smooth start or an easy
transition, but let's not getcaught up in overextending the
(18:37):
refinement.
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
I think that's a really, really good point
because you could edit forever,couldn't you?
As we say.
So yeah, but that focus on likegood enough, like this is a
minimum viable product, this isgood enough for now.
We can have a longer term goalto refine what we're doing again
(19:00):
next time on the next cycle oror whatever it might be.
But yeah, a good balance betweenrefining so that systems and
procedures work well, butwithout putting that expectation
on yourself that it's got to berefined to the point of
perfection because that's notnecessarily the best spent
(19:22):
energy.
SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Yeah, definitely.
And then it just adds stress.
You know, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
We don't need that.
Exactly.
I've got examples popping intomy head right now, but that's
okay.
We don't have to go to examples.
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
That's another episode.
unknown (19:41):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
Um, so we were just talking a little bit before we
jumped on to record about theconnection with our five Rs with
the idea of unlearning.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that, Tammy?
Because I think that's a reallygood thing to point out while
we're talking about the fiveR's.
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
Yeah, yeah.
We do talk a little bit aboutunlearning and rethinking in the
intro chapter based on ideasfrom the research of Dr.
Adam Grant.
And it's funny because his workis so logical to me, right?
Like he does all this extensiveresearch on, you know, multiple
(20:21):
things, but some of the thingsthat just really stick, stuck
out to me in, I think it was theit's the book called Rethink or
something, or think again, thinkagain is what the book was.
So this is kind of this leansinto our idea of, you know,
reimagining, rethinking with adifferent approach to school.
And so we've been doing school,you know, for centuries, and it
(20:46):
really hasn't changed that much.
So there is, there's lots ofeducational memes and things
that come up where it's like,here's all the ways your iPhone
has changed in the last 10years, here's all the ways that
your computer is different fromthe last 10 years.
But a classroom essentiallylooks the same and from like a
(21:07):
hundred years ago.
And that is shocking to mebecause we're talking about
people that we serve in schools.
We're not working with the samegeneration of people that we
were a hundred years ago.
Like things are just different,and like, yes, people
(21:27):
essentially are the same, butalso not.
Like there's just differentideas about how to parent,
there's different ideas aboutwhat school could be, but then
we always revert back to thistraditional model.
And I mean, I I kind ofunderstand why, because there is
a fear and change, but why arewe not spending more time
(21:51):
unlearning and rethinking thingsthat we know don't work?
We know it.
We know it.
Lots of new research about, youknow, around psychology and
behavior and classroom systemsand instructional practices that
we know, well, it's researched,and so there's evidence to show,
(22:15):
you know, this is kind of thedirection that we need to go,
and yet we don't do it.
Or, I mean, I shouldn't say gennot everyone's tapping into that
because there are pockets whereyes, there's some really great
innovative schools, but whyisn't it bigger picture?
Like, why are we not spendingmore time unlearning things that
have been ingrained in us?
(22:37):
I guess that's hard.
It's hard to do, right?
It's so tricky.
It is, it is tricky, definitely.
There we did manage to get a lotof thoughts in this book about
quite a few things.
I mean, we probably could havekept writing a bunch, but you
know, as you always could, asyou always could, yeah.
(23:00):
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, no, that's a that's athat's an important point to
make to just yeah, like we wesaid before, it's we don't want
people to do like brand neweverything.
Like the title says, rethinkingwhat's going on in your school's
(23:21):
ecosystem.
And we define a little bit whatthat means in the book because
it is a lot.
And will it change?
I don't know.
Right?
I mean, maybe not in ourcareers.
Yeah.
And we can hide, we can huntyes.
(23:42):
Certain parts again, you know,like every community is
different.
There's definitely someinnovative approaches.
That kind of serve as a model ora place to look for some
inspiration when we're trying tokind of work through all those
(24:04):
all these big things.
Because we are looking at somesome heavy structures with some
complex components.
And yeah, I don't know.
I think I think the book willgive people a lot of things to
rethink about.
That's my hope too.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
You know, so if when you think about planting a seed
or like helping people through,what which chapters in
particular do you feel like willbe a really have some really
good takeaways for people?
Obviously, we hope the wholebook, but are there any that
stand out to you as as feelinglike they would have some really
(24:44):
good points for people?
SPEAKER_02 (24:47):
Yeah, the expectation chapter really
always kind of because it'ssomething I talk about with
people all the time in differentaspects of like how do we even
know if people know what theexpectation is?
unknown (25:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
And that might be that might be a five-year-old,
and that might be a teacher, andyou know, it might be your
assistant principal or whatever.
But there's a lot of layers tomaking sure that people
understand and are clear aboutexpectations for so many things
in a school.
And there can be a lot ofconfusion, there can be a lot of
(25:31):
just like unknowing, right?
Like I didn't even know that wasa thing because it hasn't been
communicated to me or clearly,or I'd missed it, or something,
you know.
And so I think that one reallystands out to me the most.
But I mean, it's hard to choosebecause like time is always an
(25:51):
issue, communication is alwaysan issue.
But yeah, expectations.
How about for you?
SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
Well, I think through the process of writing
the the time chapter and youknow, thinking about it, I've
actually tried out a bunch ofthe strategies that we talk
about.
So I think that has actually hadthe most direct impact on my
work because I've actually, youknow, tried to to use as much of
(26:20):
that as possible.
So I think for me personally,the time chapter has been really
impactful thinking about likereally auditing, as we say.
We love an audit, reallyauditing how you're using your
time and considering, you know,is it best meeting what you need
to be doing in your job, youknow?
(26:41):
I think that's a huge one forpeople who work in leadership
positions because you you couldso easily go off track in
endless amounts of ways with howyour time is spent.
So I think I think there's somereally, really good nuggets in
there for people.
And I'm hoping, like we did alot of a lot of research and
(27:02):
reading around well-being forthe well-being chapter.
So I feel like we've got someinteresting thoughts and
reflections in there for peoplethat I don't think is
necessarily top of people'sminds when they're thinking
about leadership roles is how tomaintain their well-being.
I just don't see evidence frompeers that people are spending a
lot of time and investment inconsidering that part of their
(27:24):
work.
So I'm hoping that that is goingto be helpful to people as well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
I think it will.
Yeah.
On the website, you were talkingabout some of the strategies
you've tried around time use.
We do have some digitaldownloads that are on the
publisher's website.
So there is one for that chapteraround time auditing.
(27:54):
And so each chapter has adigital resource that you can
use to help with, you know, justas you're reading a chapter, you
can use the tool alongsidereading the chapter.
That is really resourceful ofRutledge to put that on there
for people as they're reading tohave these extra resources.
(28:16):
So it was kind of fun puttingtogether those resources just to
think about the best way topresent that to readers so that
it's helpful, useful, andsomething that people can like
use again and again or sharewith their colleagues.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
So yeah, I'm excited.
I agree.
I agree.
Like it because you know,obviously, when you're writing,
you can get a bit theoreticalsometimes.
So to actually think about apractical tool to use that would
be helpful to people was was agreat exercise for us to go
through.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Yeah, and I I'm looking forward to hearing how
people use those.
And, you know, we can go througha a bit of refinement as well.
So if people have feedback onsome of the tools, we can
always, you know, make versiontwo or whatever, so that's a
little bit better for people'suse.
But yeah, I think those will behelpful for people as they read
(29:13):
through.
I think we talked about thislonger than we thought we were,
which is totally fine.
Yeah, this is I'm interested tohear what people have to say
about the book as they startreading it, what the feedback
is, anything.
I'm interested to hear whatpeople have to say.
SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
So and you'll drop in the show notes the links to
the website where people canhave a look at the preview and
pre-order and order and so on.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
All those things, yes.
Well, thank you, Christine.
Thank you.
Yeah, this was nice to talk alittle bit about the book
contents, since we haven't Ifeel like we haven't really
talked about it since we Sent itoff and now it's in uh printing
mode.
So it was good to revisit someof the bits that are coming out.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Exactly.
Very excited for people to havea look.
Yeah, same.
Thank you.
This episode is sponsored byPlan Z Education Services,
supporting educators withforward-thinking professional
learning that puts both studentimpact and teacher wellness at
the center.
Driven by a vision to teachless, impact more, they help
(30:31):
educators find purpose,prioritize what matters, and
simplify their practice.
Learn more atplanzieeducation.com.
SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce, or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(31:03):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates, visitplanzeducation.com and subscribe
to receive weekly emails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator Podcast,
where the focus is on a less ismore approach to education.
Join your hosts, ChristineArnold and Tammy Musiowski,
authors of The MinimalistTeacher and your school
leadership edit, a minimalistapproach to rethinking your
school ecosystem, each week asthey explore practical ways to
simplify your work, sharpen yourfocus, and amplify what matters
(00:40):
most so you can teach and leadwith greater clarity, purpose,
and joy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast.
Today's episode is extra specialfor us.
We're giving you a little bit ofa behind-the-scenes look at our
upcoming new book.
We are very excited to sharewith you what you could expect
when reading the new book.
So let's dive in.
Hello everyone, and welcome totoday's episode of the
(01:09):
Minimalist Educator Podcast.
Today I am here with Tammy.
How are you today, Tammy?
I am doing well, Christine.
How are you?
I'm very well, thank you.
Excited to get to talk toeveryone about our project that
we've been working on.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Yes, yes.
The timeline is finally here.
I mean, we've been workingthrough a timeline for a while,
but now we're getting to thatpoint where this little project
is coming out into the world.
And we're just we're gonna talkthrough some pieces of this
(01:46):
piece of writing we did.
Someone was asking me the otherday about like the writing
process, and I was saying how westarted it long ago.
I think it was the end of 2022or something like that.
So it was like, you know, like ayear-ish or something after the
first book came out.
(02:07):
Was it that long?
Was it?
I think it was.
I think it was end of 2022, butwe let it sit there for quite a
while because we weren't sure ifwe were going to kind of dig
into this school leadershiplandscape.
But then we did.
We did, and we smashed it out.
(02:28):
We did.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
So, yes, we're talking about our new book that
is coming out.
It is called Your SchoolLeadership Edit: A Minimalist
Approach to Rethinking YourSchool Ecosystem.
And its release date is November17th, 2025.
So if you're listening to thatafter this date, you can go out
(02:50):
and grab your copy straightaway.
But by the time this episodeairs, we should we should be
able to do some pre-orders.
If you feel like it, it shouldbe available there for
pre-orders.
But we're really happy to see onthe publisher's website that
there is a preview of the bookalready available.
So if you wanted to have alittle look at a part of the
(03:12):
book, it is there ready andavailable to preview already.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Yeah, there's a nice little surprise to see that
there.
One of the things that we dotalk about in the intro chapter
is like how to read the book.
Like, yes, we want you to readthe prologue and the intro so
(03:39):
you get the foundation, but thenyou can kind of pick and choose
which chapters to read based onwhat your need is.
So, and that's how I tend toread professional books
sometimes, at least like withaudio.
But then I I always get the hardcopy after because I'm like, oh,
I need to like go back to thatchapter because this piece like
(03:59):
really stood out to me.
So it's not meant to be readnecessarily front to back.
You could, but you can yeah,choose your own adventure,
choose the chapters that speakto you, and really, really, we
want this to be a guide forschool leaders to make some
(04:20):
changes, right?
So, like kind of like the firstbook that we did, like we're not
asking anyone to do somethingcrazy or new or anything like
that, but really evaluate yoursystems and from that high level
school level, because thatimpacts everyday life in a
classroom as well.
(04:40):
So, you know, it's it's reallyjust evaluating what we do and
how can we make it better andand streamline and simplify for
ourselves because you know,there's a lot of stuff that goes
on in schools.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
There is, and that was really the thinking behind
the title, wasn't it?
Using the word edit and thinkingabout how when you edit
something you're doing, you'rereally cutting down the pieces
that aren't necessary or aren'tquite right to create the best
final product that you can.
(05:14):
And we really like that thinkingwhen it comes to school
leadership, because there is somuch that can be involved, but
is all of it necessary for thebest approach to your work and
your life, really, as well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah, exactly.
And then that I've already hadwith some people about what the
premise of the book is and whoit's for, I've been sharing
because it's your schoolleadership edit, right?
So when we think of schoolleadership, a lot of times we
think of principals andassistant principals, and it's
definitely for that audience,but it's really more than just
(05:51):
for principals and assistantprincipals.
It's anyone within the schoolparameters that has some kind of
leadership role.
So it might be a curriculumcoordinator or an instructional
coach or a teacher team lead ordepartment head.
So, really anybody who's uh arepresentative of the school and
(06:12):
helps make decisions for theschool and just so it's not
really, and it's not thatteachers can't read it, because
obviously anyone can, but it'snot specifically necessarily for
just school leaders.
So that's why school leadershipis, you know, it's more open
than just the role that you'rein, because we know that a lot
(06:34):
of people have leadership roleswithin a school.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Mm-hmm.
And beyond those that just havea title, everyone can be a
leader in a way as well.
Some of the things that we talkabout, just how you carry
yourself through your school daycan be so impactful on the
people around you.
So I think you know, everyonecan be a leader in a in a
(06:57):
certain way.
But you're right, but probablythe people who have some input
in decision making is isprobably the the target
audience, really.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
What should we dive into, Christine?
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Should we get into the the framework for the
strategies or yeah, I think theframework for sure, and then I
feel like it would beinteresting for people to hear a
little bit of the differentchapters as well.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
Okay.
So in this book, Christine andI, we love a framework, right?
Because frameworks, yeah, it's aguide.
We love an audit too.
So you'll find audits in thebook.
Audits everywhere, yeah.
Yes, because they're essentialwhen you're evaluating systems,
(07:44):
like you got to see what works,what doesn't.
And so we created a five five Rsframework.
In the first book, we have atriple P.
So that's your kind ofdecision-making funnel around
purpose, priorities, and paringdown.
And so you that appears in thisbook as well.
(08:05):
But because we're looking at bigpicture systems, we felt we need
to get a little bit deeper intosome of like how we can work
through systems.
So our five R framework consistsof reimagining, removing,
repurposing, reinvesting, andrefining.
(08:26):
So in each chapter, you'll findstrategies under those five Rs
for each of the editingchapters.
So, what do we want to talkabout first?
Should we talk aboutreimagining?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
So reimagining is really justthat, right?
(08:49):
Like you're taking a few momentsto, I don't want to say utopian,
but you know, like how couldthings be better and different?
Doesn't have to be perfect.
We're not talking aboutperfection.
We're talking about what'shappening in our school system,
(09:12):
structures.
What structures do we have?
And so maybe this is a goodpoint of to just kind of talk
about what the chapters are.
So each chapter is about editinglarge systems within a school.
So we have a chapter oncommunication, teacher support
systems, time use, yeah, familyparticipation.
(09:34):
So we, you know, we did lots ofbrainstorming around like these
are kind of the big, bigpictures, picture items in a
school.
But then also we conclude withsome structures for leadership,
leader well-being, because wecan't address all of this
professional stuff without alsotalking about meeting the needs
(09:56):
of leaders so that they aren'tgetting burnt out or feel alone
or anything like that.
So when we're talking aboutreimagining, we're looking at
these big picture structures.
unknown (10:09):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (10:09):
Yeah.
And I it I think it's animportant one because it would
be very easy to fall into, well,this is how we've always done it
in school environments.
And so reimagining is reallytrying to capture that idea of
what could it be like?
So we're really evaluatingwhat's currently happening, what
(10:32):
your your school vision is, whathow you've been working in your
systems, and then thinking aboutwhat it could be instead.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:42):
Yeah.
What's our next one?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Remove.
Let's talk about removing.
SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Yeah, which I think might be it seems like it would
be the easiest because it'slike, well, let's just not do
that anymore.
But we have a hard timegenerally as humans letting go.
We just do, right?
The the consensus is that we addthings on.
We want to do more.
(11:09):
We, you know, we sometimes thinkmore as better or bigger is
better, but there's researchthat says that's not the case.
And so let's think aboutsubtracting, doing less.
No, that doesn't necessarilymean the quality changes, right?
Probably your quality getsbetter if you're removing the
(11:32):
extraneous distractions and youknow, whatever is in the way of
doing something really wellwithin the school.
And so just in some of theschools that I've been visiting
recently, I'm seeing that soclearly because there are so
many things that clutter spaces.
(11:55):
Like mentally, I've had teacherscrying with me because they are
just so overwhelmed by all thethings, like everything.
And bottom of the list is oftenstudents, right?
So, like, yeah.
So, yeah, it's not so much aboutlike, yeah, there's things going
on with students, but for themost part, it's like, okay,
(12:19):
reports, I gotta write reportsand progress reports are, you
know, right before that.
And we I have to learn all themin these programs, and I don't
know how to, you know, likethere's a lot of that.
So that full piece of the editprocess should be taken really
seriously.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Absolutely.
And I think it parallels reallynicely with with the triple P in
the first book, thinking aboutthe paring down.
I think there's a really niceparallel there between the two
of you know what are the keythings that you need to keep,
but what then can you get rid ofthat is not helping you?
Because there is there areaspects of the work that we do
(13:01):
that are redundant andunnecessary.
And so you do really need tohave a rethink about that.
Yeah, most definitely.
And next up we have repurpose,repurposing.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:18):
I like this one, it makes me think of going to a
thrift shop and like finding uhsomebody's old stuff, and you're
gonna make a new thing out ofit.
It just yeah, it makes me thinkof like somebody else's junk as
someone else's treasure orwhatever that's saying is.
(13:38):
We're not necessarily doingthat, but that's what I think
of, right?
And it is kind of the processbecause you're like, well, what
is the thing that we're doingthat kind of works and has so
many pieces to it, but how arewe going to repurpose it for you
know, another thing or in adifferent way?
(14:00):
And so, and sorry, I'm gonnatangent here as I often do, but
it sometimes is hard to separateout some of our five R's, right?
Because in the repurposing,you're doing some rethinking,
you're gonna be doing somerefining.
So there is a lot of crossoverthere, but the repurposes, like,
(14:20):
yeah, what's right in front ofus, and like how are we going to
make this into something thatyou know it was supposed to be
for this, but now we're gonnamake it for this, which is very
creative, I think it is, it isfor sure.
SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
It is, but I think yeah, like that analogy of the
thrift shop because it's it's sotrue.
We do we do have things thatthat can be utilized and we
might not be utilizing it in thebest possible way right now.
So how can we how can we thinkabout this again and repurpose
it for something that's gonna bemore helpful?
Uh yeah, uh for sure.
(14:59):
And then next we have reinvest,which is not just about money.
It can incorporate that, butit's not just about money, it's
also about time spend, cognitiveeffort spend, effort spend, all
of that can be reinvested to bemore targeted, intentional.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Yes, absolutely.
I think you know, we're in abusiness of people, and so you
know, just in current role andthings that go on, I think about
what's going to be the bestreinvestment often of my time
(15:46):
because I work for differententities and everybody's systems
are different, and so I've hadto learn a lot of different
systems and documentations.
So I I went through like a timereinvestment like a month ago
because I was it was doing myhead in.
(16:07):
So I had to evaluate how my timewas getting spent and my energy.
So that was very helpful.
And I did feel like literallythere was a weight lifted from
my shoulders after I just kindof sat down and determined that
you know what, my enemy was myGoogle Calendar, and so I needed
(16:29):
to reinvest in the paper pencil.
I had to just stop putting tasksand it was hurting my eyeballs,
hurting my brain.
So I'm like, you know what?
I gotta, I gotta let my brainexercise in a different way
again and get hand paper.
So that reinvestment was worthit because I feel a lot better.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
That's so funny that you said that because I've gone
back to a bit of paper andpencil to-do lists as well.
Isn't that funny?
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
Thank you.
And I mean, I bought somecolorful pens, which are always
helps.
New stationery always helps.
Yeah, it was fun, it's been afun process.
I don't really have a rhyme orreason to the colors I use at
the moment because I just grabwhat's there, but it does yeah,
it's it's really helped my brainjust redoing that whole
(17:19):
structure.
So yeah, I like that.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
And then our final R is refine.
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
Yes.
So I'm this is kind of one whereI think we can get caught in it
because here we're talking aboutreflecting on and tweaking what
exists, you know, somesimilar-ish to the other five
R's.
But we can get caught in cyclesof too much reiteration or too
(17:54):
much refining, and and thismight come in, you know,
personality types can come intothat.
So we do have to be careful alittle bit, I think, in this
refinement, because again, we'renot talking about perfection,
we're talking about refining andrevising so that just those
(18:14):
little tweaks, and we can keepfinding those little tweaks
forever because there's alwayssomething.
So this one is you know, justthat last bit of refinement to
make sure things might startwith a smooth start or an easy
transition, but let's not getcaught up in overextending the
(18:37):
refinement.
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
I think that's a really, really good point
because you could edit forever,couldn't you?
As we say.
So yeah, but that focus on likegood enough, like this is a
minimum viable product, this isgood enough for now.
We can have a longer term goalto refine what we're doing again
(19:00):
next time on the next cycle oror whatever it might be.
But yeah, a good balance betweenrefining so that systems and
procedures work well, butwithout putting that expectation
on yourself that it's got to berefined to the point of
perfection because that's notnecessarily the best spent
(19:22):
energy.
SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Yeah, definitely.
And then it just adds stress.
You know, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
We don't need that.
Exactly.
I've got examples popping intomy head right now, but that's
okay.
We don't have to go to examples.
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
That's another episode.
unknown (19:41):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
Um, so we were just talking a little bit before we
jumped on to record about theconnection with our five Rs with
the idea of unlearning.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that, Tammy?
Because I think that's a reallygood thing to point out while
we're talking about the fiveR's.
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
Yeah, yeah.
We do talk a little bit aboutunlearning and rethinking in the
intro chapter based on ideasfrom the research of Dr.
Adam Grant.
And it's funny because his workis so logical to me, right?
Like he does all this extensiveresearch on, you know, multiple
(20:21):
things, but some of the thingsthat just really stick, stuck
out to me in, I think it was theit's the book called Rethink or
something, or think again, thinkagain is what the book was.
So this is kind of this leansinto our idea of, you know,
reimagining, rethinking with adifferent approach to school.
And so we've been doing school,you know, for centuries, and it
(20:46):
really hasn't changed that much.
So there is, there's lots ofeducational memes and things
that come up where it's like,here's all the ways your iPhone
has changed in the last 10years, here's all the ways that
your computer is different fromthe last 10 years.
But a classroom essentiallylooks the same and from like a
(21:07):
hundred years ago.
And that is shocking to mebecause we're talking about
people that we serve in schools.
We're not working with the samegeneration of people that we
were a hundred years ago.
Like things are just different,and like, yes, people
(21:27):
essentially are the same, butalso not.
Like there's just differentideas about how to parent,
there's different ideas aboutwhat school could be, but then
we always revert back to thistraditional model.
And I mean, I I kind ofunderstand why, because there is
a fear and change, but why arewe not spending more time
(21:51):
unlearning and rethinking thingsthat we know don't work?
We know it.
We know it.
Lots of new research about, youknow, around psychology and
behavior and classroom systemsand instructional practices that
we know, well, it's researched,and so there's evidence to show,
(22:15):
you know, this is kind of thedirection that we need to go,
and yet we don't do it.
Or, I mean, I shouldn't say gennot everyone's tapping into that
because there are pockets whereyes, there's some really great
innovative schools, but whyisn't it bigger picture?
Like, why are we not spendingmore time unlearning things that
have been ingrained in us?
(22:37):
I guess that's hard.
It's hard to do, right?
It's so tricky.
It is, it is tricky, definitely.
There we did manage to get a lotof thoughts in this book about
quite a few things.
I mean, we probably could havekept writing a bunch, but you
know, as you always could, asyou always could, yeah.
(23:00):
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, no, that's a that's athat's an important point to
make to just yeah, like we wesaid before, it's we don't want
people to do like brand neweverything.
Like the title says, rethinkingwhat's going on in your school's
(23:21):
ecosystem.
And we define a little bit whatthat means in the book because
it is a lot.
And will it change?
I don't know.
Right?
I mean, maybe not in ourcareers.
Yeah.
And we can hide, we can huntyes.
(23:42):
Certain parts again, you know,like every community is
different.
There's definitely someinnovative approaches.
That kind of serve as a model ora place to look for some
inspiration when we're trying tokind of work through all those
(24:04):
all these big things.
Because we are looking at somesome heavy structures with some
complex components.
And yeah, I don't know.
I think I think the book willgive people a lot of things to
rethink about.
That's my hope too.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
You know, so if when you think about planting a seed
or like helping people through,what which chapters in
particular do you feel like willbe a really have some really
good takeaways for people?
Obviously, we hope the wholebook, but are there any that
stand out to you as as feelinglike they would have some really
(24:44):
good points for people?
SPEAKER_02 (24:47):
Yeah, the expectation chapter really
always kind of because it'ssomething I talk about with
people all the time in differentaspects of like how do we even
know if people know what theexpectation is?
unknown (25:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
And that might be that might be a five-year-old,
and that might be a teacher, andyou know, it might be your
assistant principal or whatever.
But there's a lot of layers tomaking sure that people
understand and are clear aboutexpectations for so many things
in a school.
And there can be a lot ofconfusion, there can be a lot of
(25:31):
just like unknowing, right?
Like I didn't even know that wasa thing because it hasn't been
communicated to me or clearly,or I'd missed it, or something,
you know.
And so I think that one reallystands out to me the most.
But I mean, it's hard to choosebecause like time is always an
(25:51):
issue, communication is alwaysan issue.
But yeah, expectations.
How about for you?
SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
Well, I think through the process of writing
the the time chapter and youknow, thinking about it, I've
actually tried out a bunch ofthe strategies that we talk
about.
So I think that has actually hadthe most direct impact on my
work because I've actually, youknow, tried to to use as much of
(26:20):
that as possible.
So I think for me personally,the time chapter has been really
impactful thinking about likereally auditing, as we say.
We love an audit, reallyauditing how you're using your
time and considering, you know,is it best meeting what you need
to be doing in your job, youknow?
(26:41):
I think that's a huge one forpeople who work in leadership
positions because you you couldso easily go off track in
endless amounts of ways with howyour time is spent.
So I think I think there's somereally, really good nuggets in
there for people.
And I'm hoping, like we did alot of a lot of research and
(27:02):
reading around well-being forthe well-being chapter.
So I feel like we've got someinteresting thoughts and
reflections in there for peoplethat I don't think is
necessarily top of people'sminds when they're thinking
about leadership roles is how tomaintain their well-being.
I just don't see evidence frompeers that people are spending a
lot of time and investment inconsidering that part of their
(27:24):
work.
So I'm hoping that that is goingto be helpful to people as well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
I think it will.
Yeah.
On the website, you were talkingabout some of the strategies
you've tried around time use.
We do have some digitaldownloads that are on the
publisher's website.
So there is one for that chapteraround time auditing.
(27:54):
And so each chapter has adigital resource that you can
use to help with, you know, justas you're reading a chapter, you
can use the tool alongsidereading the chapter.
That is really resourceful ofRutledge to put that on there
for people as they're reading tohave these extra resources.
(28:16):
So it was kind of fun puttingtogether those resources just to
think about the best way topresent that to readers so that
it's helpful, useful, andsomething that people can like
use again and again or sharewith their colleagues.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
So yeah, I'm excited.
I agree.
I agree.
Like it because you know,obviously, when you're writing,
you can get a bit theoreticalsometimes.
So to actually think about apractical tool to use that would
be helpful to people was was agreat exercise for us to go
through.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Yeah, and I I'm looking forward to hearing how
people use those.
And, you know, we can go througha a bit of refinement as well.
So if people have feedback onsome of the tools, we can
always, you know, make versiontwo or whatever, so that's a
little bit better for people'suse.
But yeah, I think those will behelpful for people as they read
(29:13):
through.
I think we talked about thislonger than we thought we were,
which is totally fine.
Yeah, this is I'm interested tohear what people have to say
about the book as they startreading it, what the feedback
is, anything.
I'm interested to hear whatpeople have to say.
SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
So and you'll drop in the show notes the links to
the website where people canhave a look at the preview and
pre-order and order and so on.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
All those things, yes.
Well, thank you, Christine.
Thank you.
Yeah, this was nice to talk alittle bit about the book
contents, since we haven't Ifeel like we haven't really
talked about it since we Sent itoff and now it's in uh printing
mode.
So it was good to revisit someof the bits that are coming out.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Exactly.
Very excited for people to havea look.
Yeah, same.
Thank you.
This episode is sponsored byPlan Z Education Services,
supporting educators withforward-thinking professional
learning that puts both studentimpact and teacher wellness at
the center.
Driven by a vision to teachless, impact more, they help
(30:31):
educators find purpose,prioritize what matters, and
simplify their practice.
Learn more atplanzieeducation.com.
SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce, or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(31:03):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates, visitplanzeducation.com and subscribe
to receive weekly emails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.