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March 29, 2024 45 mins

Join us on a captivating journey with Julie, the design and construction industry's narrative master, who opens up about her transformative career path, from weathering the storm of the 2008 economic downturn to becoming an ardent enthusiast of building and design. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone eager to learn how to turn their industry passion into a thriving niche, as Julie takes us through her experiences with Indie Collective, her leap into authorship with "Get Them to Care," and her wisdom on the importance of personal branding and strategic social media engagement to grow a professional presence.

As we unpack Julie's story, we discover how she stumbled into the marketing consultancy business, creating a name for herself within Denver's design and construction circles through her exceptional service and specialized knowledge. The conversation illuminates the Indie Collective curriculum's impact on her life, teaching the value of aligning one's business with the essential aspects of living, lifestyle, and loving relationships. Julie's candid talk about overcoming imposter syndrome and finding work-life balance will resonate with many, offering hope and practical advice to those navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship.

Wrapping up our session, we explore the profound influence of grit and perseverance in achieving long-term goals. Julie shares her insights, drawing from Angela Duckworth's "Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance," revealing how these qualities have shaped her success as an entrepreneur and writer. We delve into the art of receiving critique, the importance of daily practices in honing discipline, and the ways Julie is available to mentor through LinkedIn, emphasizing the importance of community support in personal and professional growth. This episode is not to be missed by emerging leaders and creators, as it's an inspiring testament to the power of passion, resilience, and authentic connection.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Modern
As always, I'm your host, janAlmasy, and this is an episode
called the Launchpad.
So today we have our friend,julie here with us and she helps
people to care about theimpactful stories behind the
design and construction business.
Today we're going to discusshow she came to specialize in

design and construction industry, her journey with Indie
Collective, and we'll get thechance to talk about her new
book, get them to Care.
How to leverage LinkedIn tobuild your online presence and
become a trusted brand.
Julie, thanks for coming andhanging out today.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yes, thank you for having me on.
Seriously, I think we've beenkind of going back and forth and
being able to finally gettogether, talk it out and, like
you mentioned too, even goshwhat I started in the in the
fall of 2021.
So it's been a few years rightsince we've probably been in
touch, so I love that we'regetting to catch up now.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, same here, same here.
I'm always.
It's always so fun to catch upwith people across the different
You know, earlier today I hadoffice hours with people that
are getting ready to graduatetheir first cohort.
So they're coming off of thatfire hose of information.
They're like, oh my gosh, I'mgoing to have free time.
Like what do I?
do how do we stay in contact,Like what do I, what do I build?
And then getting the chance toswap that and talk to you

immediately after I think is oneof the beautiful parts of of
this position kind of in thehead of community space, getting
the chance to talk to peopleacross all the different
So I'm super, super amped tohave you with us.
I love your energy, I love thecontent.
Like I was telling you beforethe mics came on, I was
listening to one of the otherpodcasts you were interviewed on
, so I'm excited to have my ownepisode with you now.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Exactly Right, the one-on-one.
I love it, j&j.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's almost like you work in branding and marketing.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I know, can you imagine?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
So one thing that I'm curious about right off the bat
is I think that you know designand construction is a super
niche industry, you know, andobviously it's something that
you have a lot of passion about.
I think inside of the podcast Iwas just listening to you you
call yourself a self-proclaimedbuilding nerd, right.
So I'm curious as to how thatpassion really kind of came to

life and your journey intobuilding this business around
design and construction.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
For sure?
No, jan, that's a greatquestion.
And again, being thatself-proclaimed building nerd,
first off, let me tell you, cometo Denver and I can give you
the architectural tour of allthe buildings, telling you who
built it, who designed it, whatthe HVAC is like inside the
So come on down Step one.
But I think, too, this passionhonestly really started back in

2008 in the downfall.
Honestly, I had been working inmortgages, right, had led to,
maybe, the downfall, but wasobviously looking for a new job
and got signed on withMcGraw-Hood Construction on
their editorial side inWashington DC and, interestingly
enough, that's where I firstmet Kat Coffrin, who is a huge
contributor to Indie Collective.

Shout out to Kat, we love herright and she kind of took me
under her wing and we startedinterviewing owners, contractors
, architects and engineers abouttheir building projects.
And if you aren't familiar withthe design and construction
industry, there's a long buildupfor each project, right?
So it takes at least one to twoyears to design a building and

then another one to two years todesign a building and then
another one to two years tobuild it.
So those people invest a lot oftime and money and energy into
getting those buildings designedand constructed and they love
to talk about it.
Surprise, surprise, right.
So it really kind of lit myfire in terms of, oh my goodness
, what is behind those walls,right.
Like, I don't know if you'veever done some home improvements

on your own house, but it's alandmine back there, right.
You never know what you'regoing to find.
Obviously there's do's anddon'ts on each side of it, but
it just kind of sparked mycuriosity, kind of then fast
forward to I moved to Denverafter working at McGraw Hill for
about two years and workedin-house at an engineering firm
and then an architecture firmand really again got to learn

more about how to market thosebuildings.
How do these you know, how dothese studies come out?
How do they know that, okay, weneed a new K-12 school or a new
hospital in a certain area?
So being able to kind of seelike behind the scenes of the
industry, again built thatbuilding nerd or sparked that
spark and become the buildingnerd I am today.

So that was a long answer.
Hope you strapped in for that.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, no, I love the way that it kind of happened
because of this collapse.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Right exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I always try to tell people you know when that
collapse is happening or itfeels like things are falling
It may not necessarily bethings falling apart.
It's your puzzle breaking andthe pieces becoming fluid Right
so you can rearrange the puzzleand put it together in a
different way and it sounds likethat's that's really what
You know this industry collapsedand I'm sure that it was

massively stressful anddifficult at the time.
But I also, just from the waythat you talk about the work
that you do now, probably wouldventure to guess that there's
not very many other places thatyou would find.
You know the amount offulfillment that you're finding
right now in the work thatyou're doing.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
No for sure Again.
And what a crazy story then tothen having worked inside on
in-house right, an architecturefirm, an engineering firm, to
then decide, oh my gosh, I'mgoing to do this on my own and
totally niche down, jan, and itwas one of those things where
that kind of happened byaccident, right, I was working
my last full-time job which I'llnever go back to, ever again,

thank you was to more of abusiness development role.
So I was talking with ownersand contractors and every time
that I was meeting with them,they were like you know, julie,
you can really do this on yourown right.
Like you have a lot ofknowledge, you have a lot of
ideas and different strategies.
And so, for me, when I startedmy consultancy in 2015, I was

like, okay, well, I'm not goingto abandon all these
relationships that I had builtin the design and construction
And I had all these peopletelling me Julie, you should be
doing this right, can you dothis on the side?
And so, for me, it was byhappenstance, but I'm so glad
that I did it, because the depthof the relationships that I've
built and, honestly, thebusiness that I built around it

rewarding for me and sosuccessful.
Honestly, on that, I was justlike I can't leave that industry
Um, I have to, I'm married toit.
So for better, for worse, right?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
I feel I very much so feel the same way, I mean I.
So, uh, a little about mybackground.
I originally came through IndieCollective because I was
building an agency and I camefrom a nursing and a clinical
psychology background I didn'tknow anything about anything
really Just kind of learning inthe trenches.
Yep on the go.
Yeah and it started out withvery home founder-led businesses

, small businesses in our areaduring COVID that just needed
help with marketing.
I come from a very rural areaso I kind of was just like
designated as the tech guy inour area which kind of covered
everything from like you canhelp me with IT all the way to
like marketing and I'm like Ican't do all of those things.
I can show you how to look atthe YouTube link.
But we ended up kind of fallinginto this industry with HVAC

professionals and then it endedup leading to electric
electricians, and then it led tobuilders and now we're working
with like design buildcontractors, and I mean it.
I love the space so much andthat was another reason why I
was excited to sit down and nerdout with you over all of this
stuff, because I'm alsoextremely passionate about the
same space.
One of our favorite clientsright now is a design build

contractor out of Chicago and ithas been an amazing experience
getting the chance to tell theirstories.
I don't think I've ever met agroup of people that could be so
excited about the differencebetween tilt and precast

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Right, and anyone outside the industry.
That's like a two hour podcastright there just on that
Let me tell you, Anyways.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
So, as you were building it and I think
something that you pointed out,it really stands out to me is
that you were able, because ofthe nature of the way that you
were kind of coming up throughand the experiences that you had
meeting Kat, getting the chanceto interview all these project
managers and then having youknow we'll just say the universe

, kind of with the input, like,oh, you should, you could be
doing this solo.
Yeah, um, you could be doingthis on your own.
What was, um when, when youmade that leap initially into
doing the solo work, um, howwere you able to just decide?
You know, I'm going to stay inthis niche versus.

I think sometimes what I seeinside of the indie collective
cohorts is people go to starttheir independent business and
they start to ask well, maybe Ishould go broad to try to figure
stuff out, because I'm notquite sure where my clients are
going to be, and then they nichedown.
But it seems like you were ableto kind of bypass that I need
to go broad before I come backnarrow again.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
For sure, yeah.
So to kind of bypass that Ineed to go broad before I come
back narrow again, for sure,yeah.
So to kind of answer thatquestion, jan, it was.
So, again, the universe, right,kept telling me hey, julie, you
need to do this.
Uh, you could really, you know,do this on the side or whatever
And when I made that leap and,in 2015, was like, okay, I'm,
I'm opening up this, uh,marketing consultancy, what the
heck do I do?
Right, and it was more of like,okay, I had already, because I

had people already telling mehey, you know, I could use some
help with this.
Or what do you think about thissocial media strategy?
Hey, could you, you know, startwriting some LinkedIn content
for me?
It was more of, again, honestly, happenstance.
But once I got into it andstarted working with, first it
was honestly, a set of engineersthe engineers loved me so much
that they started talking me upto contractors.

It was kind of like, just, Idon't know how to describe like
dropping a pebble into a lake,right, and it just kind of
rippled out from there.
And, honestly, jan, I've beenso blessed that I don't
advertise, right, so myadvertisement is a referral.
And within the design andconstruction industry,
especially here in Denver andColorado.
It's fairly small right.

So if you do a good job, peoplewill hear about it.
If you do a terrible job, morepeople will hear about it right.
So I erred on the side ofcaution and made sure that I
took care of each person, that Iwas thoughtful and whatever
else, and then I asked for thereferral.
I'm like, hey, if there'sanyone else that you know,
please refer them.
And my business kind of grewfrom there.

So it was almost following theindie playbook without having
seen the indie playbook.
Jan, if you want to, yeah yeah,yeah.
And I think, too, I mentionedwhen I joined Indie Collective
in the fall of 2021, I was atthis plateau where I was like,
okay, I know I want to take mybusiness to the next level.
How do I get there?
And I almost considered leavingagain the design and

construction industry.
I'm like, oh, do I open it upto this whole big world of other
But honestly, indie Collectivereinforced for me that I needed
to niche down and to really stayin my lane right and build on
services from there.
So that was kind of like thebest part.
I was like, yes, I'm doingsomething right and I didn't
even know it.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
So it was good Right.
And I find that we, a lot oftimes we there's at least one or
two parts of the curriculumthat people are doing
intuitively, which is always agood reinforcement.
I always use that when peopleare battling imposter syndrome
or they're having a bad day.
They're like, oh, why am Idoing this?
Because inevitably, we'retalking about the universe
feeding you answers right now.

But if you're listening to thisand you're like I want to be an
entrepreneur, I'm thinkingabout starting my independent
There are going to be dayswhere you question your sanity
as to whether or not theuniverse has been BSing you.
Yeah, and so I love that.
You know, we have those pieces.
But when you have those lowdays, you can remind yourself

like, oh, you know, I alreadyhad my unconscious, my
subconscious was already pushingme in this direction, I just
need to refine it.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
No, for sure.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
And that's what I think I hope that a lot of
people get out of the curriculumas they go through it, which
actually is probably a greatplace to kind of transition into
Talking about the IndieCollective Curriculum.
I know that you know, goingthrough that could be a lot.
There's a fire hose ofinformation.
We talk about everything fromdesigning your life around maybe
a different set of principlesthan you've designed it

previously with your living,your lifestyle and your loving
relationships we call those ourthree L's all the way through
pricing and productization andcontracts and all this stuff.
Is there something out of thatcohort that really jumped out at
you that you were like oh, thisis something that was super
valuable to me and that I'vebeen able to use as I've grown

my business?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
For sure.
So I think the biggest thingfor me was putting Okay.
So you mentioned the three L'sand as I was going through and
learning what each of thosemeant and how they could
possibly apply to me, I doubleddown on the loving part, right,
whether that was loving myself,right, overcoming you mentioned
the loving part.
Right, whether that was lovingmyself, right, overcoming you
mentioned, excuse me, impostersyndrome, but also making time

for my loved ones.
Right, I, as a solopreneur, wasdoing everything at the time
and, honestly, was gettingburned out right 2021 in the
We were still kind of in thethroes of COVID and had lost,
you know, a lot of thatin-person connection.
So, in joining Indie Collective,the first thing that struck me
was the community.
Right, all these people thatwere seemingly in the same boat

as I, experiencing the sameissues, but really being able to
take a how do I say this?
Like, take a look at mybusiness from more of a personal
And again, one of the thingsthat really stood out to me and
really helped me is when Sam'stalks about superpowers and I'm
like, oh, what is that?
Right, do I even have one?

Am I born with one?
What you know?
What is my calling Um, and so,honestly, I'd never heard of
that term, uh, before joiningIndie Collective.
And so for me, I had ended uphaving to do a lot of journaling
around that of like, okay, whoam I Right?
What do I love about myself,what do other people like about
And so, honestly, it's.
I mean, that might be intuitiveto other people, but that,

honestly, was the most impactfulpart of Indie Collective
realizing that and then puttingthat loving into practice.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, I think you know, not all of us can be a cat
coffer to shut her out.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Exactly right.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Love her, that is like every time I have a
conversation with her, it's likeI'm getting to process myself
through a mirror of the way thatshe, like, delivers things back
to you.
I'm like oh, dang like I didn'tnotice that about myself, and
it's so.
She could just like boop.
she just plinks it out of youabout myself, and it's so she
could just like boop, she justplinks it out of you and it's
just crazy to me.
But I feel very, very similarlylike to that, to hurt that
point, like being able to gothrough that self-discovery and

and you mentioned, you knowwhether it's journaling or for
me it was, you know, doing abunch of of research into, like
my past, you know achievements Ilike literally went through my
resume and was like okay, whatimpact have I had at different
organizations that I've been atand like how has that shifted
over time?
And it was crazy to look atlike my resume that I used to

apply for becoming the nursingclub president in college to
modern day, right and there waslike five or six iterations
across all of those and I waslike man.
I don't know what I want to bewhen I grow up.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's what I'm passionate about Right.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Ultimate question A lot of different things.
Yeah, I'm curious too.
You know I'm curious Afterworking on that, discovering,
okay, who am I, why do I reallyenjoy providing these services
and focusing on those lovingrelationships.
You talk about LinkedIn a lot.

How are you able to translatesome of those things?
Or is there ways that, ifsomebody is already in the midst
of doing that work like, say,somebody's listening and they
just took Kat Kat's workshop andnow they are like, okay, I know
what I want to talk about Isthere a way to kind of start
working on translating that intostuff that they could put on

social media?
Um, and then after that, howhas social media personally
impacted your journey, you know,in in scaling your business?

Speaker 2 (16:19):
For sure.
No great question, double sided.
I'll try and answer both parts,but I can get on a, um, uh,
runaway train sometimes.
So part one, um.
So again, after taking IndieCollective doing that, uh, I
don't know self-awareness workRight, and again honing in on
those loving relationships, Irealized that I had to put more
of me into my business right.

When I started my consultancy,jan, I used terms like, oh, we
specialize in writing awardsubmittals or the team does this
Excuse me, in actuality it wasme doing all of that right, but
I was so honestly, I was scaredto put myself into my business
right and to bring more of mypersonal strengths, weaknesses,

even into my story as a businessowner.
And then, how did I then turnthat over and tell that story on
Woo, right, like a wholelifetime right Of processing who
I am, what I like.
What impact do I have Then?
Being able to tell that story onsocial media has again impacted

my business a hundredfold rightLike.
Had you told me eight years agothat I could build a business
just on social media, I wouldhave told you you're crazy.
Right Like, no way, there wasno way that I could ever do that
But I think what's the bestpart about social media and this
is what people miss is thatsocial media is still made up of
humans, right, the technology,yes, that's great.

You can connect with people inOhio, right To Denver, to China,
all over the world, which Ithink is great.
But you have to be able to tellyour own story right.
And, to me, linkedin is thatplace where you can own your
story right.
Own what you're good at, whatyou you know, what you bring to
the table.

So, for me, being an indiecollective helped me discover,
okay, I need to start tellingthat story right, because I was.
I was holding back, honestly,right, I didn't want to put, you
know, personal things about meinto my business.
But what I came to realize isthat the business is me right
Again, as a solopreneur.
Why do people hire me?
It's not because BusinessRewritten, the name of my

company is this well-known brandwe're not Coca-Cola right, but
why people kept hiring back?
Business Rewritten?
Because it was me right.
It was that energy, thatpositivity, that unique
knowledge that I had about thedesign and construction industry
that really helped me.
You know, kind of niche downfirst of all, but also just get

people to care about design andconstruction, right?
I think buildings impacteveryone, right?
Whether we like it or not.
And so being able to tell thatunique story on LinkedIn through
their different prompts, right?
That about section again, ifyou've taken Kat's class, one of
her workshops, or even what shedid in Indie Collective, that

really turned it on its head forme of my about section on
LinkedIn was just aregurgitation of my resume at
one point and I have ascreenshot of it right Of a
before and after.
But then, after taking hersession and going through some
prompts and doing somejournaling, doing the hard work,
I realized I'm not sayinganything about myself, right.

So being able to kind of takeall that information about me.
So being able to kind of takeall that information about me
not only my work experience butwhat I'm really good at and how
I can help people and put itinto three paragraphs, that to
me was like oh, the skies areparting, the sun shining down
and has really honestly helpedme own who I am but also allow

others to get to know me withouthaving ever met me before.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
I love that I think it's sowell.
I mean, it was a loadedquestion, so I have a tendency
to ask those once we get intothe thick of the podcast because
, I just there's so many thingsthat I want to try to take the
conversation, and so I try tocover as many of them as.
I can in a single, singlequestion, um, which actually I,

I, I'm, I'm loving the way thatyou're explaining you know, out
of all of the stages of business.
It's been like really a journeyof self-discovery and then
learning how to promote that youknow and that's what you're
discovering, these pieces ofyourself, and then continuing to
say, well, I'm going to putthis out because I try to tell

most of the Indy Collectivegrads this if I get the chance
to meet them in office hours, ifthree people within a month ask
you the same question, it'slike a responsibility of yours
to explore that as a potentialservice.
Yes, especially if it's peopleyou already know, like and trust
Right, if they're like hey, youshould do this, then go explore

it Like, check it out, becauseyou'd be surprised, you know
what you might find, even if youdon't think that it's something
that you could like, reallyreally lean into.
I'm, I'm wondering if the sameprinciple you know, people
asking you and saying, hey, youcould do this on the side and
then it turning into a businessis the same way that the book
ended up coming into existence.

You know how did that happen?
Because you built the business,you gained the expertise and
then at some point.
It was like well, I've I'veanswered this enough times or
I've talked about this, thatthis should be a body of
Was there a transition pointlike that?
Or or talk to us about how thebook idea came into existence
and how that journey started.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Sure, no.
And again another loadedquestion.
So, again, strap back in.
I love this metaphor becauseit's definitely a good story and
a little bit long, but we'llget started.
So for me, honestly, okay, Ilove writing.
That has inherently beensomething that I've always loved
, whether it's journaling or Iwas okay, I was the nerd in
again building nerd writing nerd.

I was the nerd in class.
That was like in middle schoolI was like I want extra writing
assignments, what?
Okay, so I would spend timekind of writing, journaling,
answering different questions.
So, for me, writing was alwayssomething that I was passionate
about and kind of in the back ofmy head, honestly, was on my
proverbial to-do list write abook, julie, you need to write a

And then, of course, life takesyou on all these different
twists and turns.
Fast forward to again having myown business building this body
of knowledge around socialmedia and, specifically,
Honestly, where I was writingcontent right for other people,
I was helping them design theirprofiles.
I then got into managing.

At one time I think I had 20different company profiles that
I was managing and helping buildtheir brand online.
That I was like, oh my goodness, this is actually, you know,
something that's catching on.
Oh, my goodness, this isactually something that's
catching on.
Linkedin's not going away,right, it's here to stay and,
honestly, I saw it too evolvingof more than just a recruiter's
paradise, right, I think we'veall been spammed by recruiters

on LinkedIn and most people arelike, oh well, I'm not looking
for a job, I don't need to be onLinkedIn.
But it turned into more of aagain a community right of human
beings, of people and tellingtheir story about their
different strengths, whatthey're good at, what their
experience has been and, youknow, expanding upon what they
want to do.

So getting into the book.
Actually, it happened byhappenstance, again, through
Indie Collective, through theLunch and Learns, honestly, so
those were extra sessions at thetime.
Again, we're all on Zoom and Ibelieve at the time I even had
COVID, so I didn't go on screenright on Zoom.
And Jen T Grace from Publishyour Purpose was one of the

Lunch and Learn presenters on aFriday.
I remember sitting in bed, mylaptop's on my chest I'm blowing
my nose, all the things and shestarted talking about the
publishing process and how shefocuses on voices and stories
that are not as wide known ornot typically told, right.
So she was interested inauthors and helping people

promote their stories that maybea typical publisher from New
York, for instance, wouldn'twant to publish, right?
So I just felt this immediateconnection with her, contacted
her immediately and was like,hey, I loved your message, I
want to write a book, help meexplore this.
And I ended up joining herone-on-one individual coaching

and kind of talked through itand LinkedIn just kept popping
up, right, and I'm like, okay,here we go, this is where the
book is going.
Right Again, universe tellingme things.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
There it is.
That's what I'm saying.
Open your eyes and payattention everybody.
It's funny how much feedbackyou actually get if you're
willing to listen and observe.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Exactly Right, it's that self-awareness, but like,
yeah, like you said, thelistening part too, and I had
given again a couple ofpresentations around LinkedIn
and in the design andconstruction industry.
And let me just tell you so, ifyou know the adoption curve,
design and construction are thelaggards.
Okay, they don't like change,they don't like, they want to do
the same thing over and overbecause it's worked for hundreds

of years.
So incorporating social mediainto you, know, if you're
talking to a constructionsuperintendent, they're like
what, what are you talking about?
Why are you looking at yourphone all day?
I don't need to be on it, right.
But being able to work in thespace, build my business around
social media Gosh, I think mybusiness is now 90% social media

and bringing it into thisindustry.
That was completely underserved, right, they didn't understand
how LinkedIn could be such abranding tool.
And to help people not only telltheir own story, but for
companies to recruit more people, as I'm sure we all know, every
company right now is hurtingfor people and not just a warm

body, but the right person.
Right, to work with their firmthat fits their culture.
That, you know, fits into howthey do things and how they
build buildings, and eachcontractor is different, right?
So each contractor has adifferent story to tell, and I
really kind of dug deep intofinding out.
Okay, well, how do you findthose best people, right?
When people are interviewing now, they do a lot of research,

right, and typically they'regoing to your website.
It's okay, you see a projectabout us contact us, but where
do you get those kind of one-offpictures of the happy hour?
Or, you know, the group goingto volunteer on a Saturday for
Habitat for Humanity buildinghouses for underserved people,
Ooh, now I'm interested.

Right Now, I want to be, youknow, a part of that company.
So if you're putting thatinformation out there
consistently on LinkedIn andit's all in one place, that's
the other part, right?
Like I'm not going to 20different websites.
I see 20 different companyfeeds coming up.
You know, as I'm scrollingthrough LinkedIn, what's going
to catch your eye, right?
How do you get people'sattention to not only want them

to come work for you, buthonestly, just to be connected
with you, right?
Like you talk about wanting tobuild relationships with people,
you know, with people, youtrust all those things.
How do you get to know them?
It has to start somewhere, andfor me it just kept coming back
to LinkedIn.
Okay, that was also a reallylong answer.

I don't know if I even answeredyour question, jan, about the
book, but we went down a rabbithole.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
No, no, no, no, you definitely did.
I mean, I think, your journeyfrom getting the feedback and
then it just sounds like youmake decisions.
When you reach this, likecritical mass of people kind of
pinging you or like asking abouta direction that you should go,
and you have this greatself-awareness and intuition
about hey, I'm hearing this.

This matches up with somethingI'm intuitively feeling.
I'm going to act on it, I'mgoing to go do this thing, which
I think is so important and canalso be a major block.
I know a lot of people thatdeal with imposter syndrome, um,
where you know they may have 20people telling them right, this
is a thing that you should bedoing, and they're like I don't
know, maybe you know, at somepoint I'll get the chance.

Um, but when you found theseareas where you know your drive
and then you know the thingsthat people are asking you for

Speaker 2 (28:27):
And I think that's a beautiful thing to be able to do
Well for sure, thank you.
And again, like you said, it'shaving that awareness and
listening to people and notbecause listen, I've got
imposter syndrome too.
Right, I will tell you, goingthrough Indie Collective, being
surrounded by a variety ofpeople and getting all this
information thrown at you, I waslike, oh my gosh, I felt like I
was totally doing my businesswrong, that I wasn't on the path

to success and all these things.
But it took some time for me toget over that imposter syndrome
No, these are just a ton ofother resources out there and it
really challenged me to thinkabout my business differently
and to connect with people andask questions and kind of dig
deeper to see how I could buildmy business.
And, honestly, now it's what?

Two years later, jan, I can'ttell you how much Indie
Collective has helped me and howI've been able to take,
honestly, two years to put allthat information into practice,
because it's not just going tohappen all at once.
Right, you talked about theperson on office hours.
That was like, ah, how do Iimplement all these things?
It's a lot of information.
It takes time, right, like Ifeel like I'm still going back

to my notes and the Google Docsright from Indie Collective is
like, oh okay, how do I directthis branding part, or how do I
really productize my services?
So it's something that I findmyself constantly going back to
and has just been such a goodjumping off point for me to be

able to say okay.
I think I know what I'm doing,but let me go back to these
Let me see what the expertshave said.
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
I always I do the same thing and I hear that
through from you know, dozens ofmembers that I get the chance
to meet with over the years youknow, six months after
graduation, a year aftergraduation, getting the chance
to talk and I hear that prettyconsistently that it's like okay
, I have an idea and now I havea framework that I know works
that I can run this idea throughYep and if it comes out the

other side and it still soundsviable, I can execute it like
confidently, versus just havingan idea and then not really
having anything to plug it upagainst.
You know, it's it's almost niceto kind of put them through
like the indie collectivestrainer, so to speak.
So that you can kind of get thatdistilled idea down.
I love that.
I want to give you theopportunity to maybe pass some

knowledge backwards as welloutside of just talking about,
you know, the LinkedIn and thebook and all this other stuff.
You know there's a lot of peoplethat want to go independent,
right, that want to step into afield, that want to start their
own businesses, and I alwaysfind that, you know, you can
read 15 Google articles aboutthe top five things that you

need to be doing as anentrepreneur and whatever, but
I've never really found thosequite as valuable as just
people's experience, right?
So if you had to go back towhen you were starting the
business and I guess you caneither choose, like when you
were first starting the businessor when you were about to write
the book or any of thesecritical, you know pivoting
points or these growth points inyour life, what are some pieces

of advice, qualities orsomething that you would like
you know previous, you to havereinforced on, and or knowledge

Speaker 2 (31:41):
For sure.
So I think, going back to againwhen I was starting my business
, or just about to start mybusiness, back in 2015, and was
listening to the universe, right, of all these different people
asking me, hey, you could dothis or can you help me with
On the side, whatever that isHonestly, first was getting over
that imposter syndrome andsaying, okay, I am an expert,

right, I have knowledge to share, I can build a business out of
this, but, honestly, it takes alot of grit and a lot of
I think those are two termsthat often get overlooked, right
, because people think, oh well,you're either inherently an
independent or an entrepreneur,or you are inherently a lab

exclusive, right, I had to gothrough the rat race, right, of
being on a salary and I foundmyself always I don't know.
I would always hit goals andbring things in way ahead of the
I was super motivated and I'mlike, hey, you know, I'm

literally making money forsomeone else.
Right, I actually could betaking some of this in
benefiting from my knowledge andbuilding upon that right.
I actually could be taking someof this in benefiting from my
knowledge and building upon thatright.
So don't be scared to take thatleap right, because all those
things that you have inside ofyou the motivation, different
things that you're hearing fromother people add up right and

help you build that framework of, okay, I'm getting over this
hump and I'm going out on my own, and that, for me, was what
2015, eight years later, stillgrinding, still building.
But, honestly, then, to sustainthat right for eight years does
take a lot of patience.
Okay, and I am not a patientperson, right, we talked earlier
, yana, like the East Coastmentality.

I'm like boom, boom, boom, okay, let's go.
I'm like boom, boom, boom, okay, let's go, I'm here, I'm there,
let's make a decision whatever.
And two, having patients comingout of Indie Collective of like,
oh my gosh, I have all thesethings to do, all these
different resources that I needto implement, and I was
overwhelmed, but having patientsof saying, okay, I'm going to
tackle this one piece of mybusiness now to actually

productize my services, right,with the knowledge that it can
be done and that it's much moreprofitable, right?
So that was my first piece andthat took honestly, like six
months for me to really pressuretest and to really be able to
put out there and it's honestlyhelped my business grow so much.
Beyond that, I'm like whydidn't I do this before?

But then to having the patientssaying, okay, now that I
productize my services, how am Ibuilding my brand?
Right, and that was what Imentioned earlier about really
leaning into the loving ofloving myself, getting to spend
more quality time with my lovedones.
How do I do that?
Well, I got to put more of meinto my business, right and get
more personal.
That well, I got to put more ofme into my business, right and

get more personal.
And I think, for me, I considermyself an extroverted introvert,
such that I can talk small talk, I can talk us up all day long,
but as an introvert, I don'tlike really revealing things
about myself.
Okay, so talking about myjourney and different things is
actually difficult for me, butit's something that I've
overcome and I found the morevulnerable that I get in my

business, the more that I put meinto my business, oh my gosh,
the success steep climb.
Whatever, I don't know what I'mdoing, it's much greater right
Like I've been able to benefitso much more from putting more
of myself into my business andthat for me, prior to Indie
Collective, was like wait what?

No, I'm not doing that, I amprofessional business rewritten
and then here's Party, julie orwhatever.
Being able to kind of meldthose two things was definitely
very impactful for me.
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
I always one of my favorite quotes and whenever I'm
for me yeah, I love that.
I always I one of my favoritequotes and whenever I'm like,
struggling to make a decision.
You know you, you talkedearlier about just just getting
over the hump, getting over thatpiece and and finding this
growth, and whether that'sgetting over the hump of
deciding to actually dedicateyourself and start the business
or getting over the hump ofrealizing I can talk about

myself and I'm like social mediais not going to blow up because
I'm being unprofessional.
Quote unquote with aprofessional brand, whatever
that even means.
Fear is an ocean wide and aninch deep is one of my favorite
ways to look at that.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Okay, say that one more time, yann.
I need this to sink in.
Fear is.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
An ocean wide and an inch deep Okay, I like that.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I like that.
You know what I'm picturing.
I don't know if you've seen thememe where the little boy is
holding onto a rope, he's in thewater and he's like crying and
whatever else, and then hismom's like stand up.
And he stands up and he's like,oh, I'm fine.
I'm not drowning, so it's kindof like that's exactly what
popped into my head, that image.
I'm like oh, I get it.

Stand up, stand up Right.
You're already there.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , and so that's kind of the
message you know.
If you're a listener and you'reand you're on the precipice of
wanting to start something new,right, and I'm not even saying
that, like you're looking atIndie Collective or you want to
join Indie, this is agnostic tothe curriculum, even though this
is blatantly a podcast thattalks about the Indie Collective
Right, it doesn't matter whatdecision you're looking at in

If it's something that yougenuinely feel passionate about
and there's something holdingyou back, typically just taking
the first step makes it a lotless scary, because that's the
only the only way you're goingto realize that it's an H deep
is if you take a first step.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Exactly Right.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yep and stand up, you just got to stand up and keep
standing up, right.
So I love it, yeah yeah.
And it doesn't go away Right,like those decisions to your
You're eight plus years in andthere's still moments where
you're going to have to make agrowth decision, right, or
you're going to have to makesomething that feels
So I you know it doesn'tnecessarily go away.
Your nervous system is stillgoing to kick in, like you're

still going to get a little bitworked up, a little bit about
that stuff.
But once you recognize thatit's an inch deep the first time
, it makes it easier and easieras you go through.
I do have one last question foryou that I love asking people,
because I'm a huge nerd, I'malways consuming information and
I love being able to pass onthings that other people find

interesting, right, and so thisis kind of our bonus question,
but it's one of my favorites.
Are you a reader, a listener ora watcher and, depending on your
response, could you recommend abook, a podcast or a YouTube
channel to our audience that youenjoy.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Okay, so I'm old school, I'm a reader and I
cannot read e-books.
Please do not send me an e-book.
I have how many?
Three bookshelves, and Iactually have the book right
here that I want to recommend.
It's called Grit the Power ofPassion and Perseverance.
And if you were listeningearlier in the podcast I
mentioned, you know what advicewould I give to other people you

know, wanting to make bigdecisions in their lives, or
maybe take that step to becomeindependent and grit, honestly,
is my first response.
Right, it doesn't.
The book basically talks aboutthat.
Talent is not inherent, it'snot something you're born with.
Right, that nature nurture.
Because I think some people fallinto that trap of oh well, I'm
not a writer, I wasn't bornknowing every single word and

how to put it together.
Well, the only way that you getto be a writer is to write
right and to practice and havethat perseverance and have
people redline.
Well, the only way that you getto be a writer is to write
right and to practice and havethat perseverance and have
people redline the heck out ofyour writing sample.
And you're looking at thisthing that's almost completely
red, but in the same vein, thoseare all the things that are
going to help you grow right.

Having someone critique yourwork, getting that feedback,
putting that feedback intopractice and then keep going
right, like your first articlethat you write is going to be
terrible, let's be honest, right, the first podcast you do, the
first whatever?
The first year in business?
Oh my gosh, I was flying by theseat of my pants, right, and it
wasn't necessarily terrible.
But have I done better?

Yes, of course.
I'm eight years in and this bookhonestly helped reinforce that
message to me that you just gotto keep going, keep practicing,
and if you have this inherentpassion for something like I do,
for writing, I can actuallyturn that into a book, right, oh
my God.
And have that passion and drivethat keeps you going right,

because I can tell you, I writeevery day.
That's part of my journey.
It helps me center myself, allthe things.
But I guess a couple of yearsago I wasn't writing as much at
all, right, and I was like, oh,I want to write this book.
Oh, I haven't written anythingin a very long time.
Literally, I just said, okay,I'm getting up this morning and

writing three pages, right, oh,that three pages has now turned
to 10 pages almost every morningthat I write, but you have to
keep going right and have thegrit and perseverance to do so.
So that's my recommendationShout out to Angela Duckworth.
I don't know who she is aresearcher, a writer but I love,
love, love this book.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
So an awesome yeah, an awesome author.
I love the idea of the grit,the discipline, you know, those

daily practices, I, of push youforward.
There's something that you haveto commit to practicing because
they are.
They will fall behind, you know, and so it's amazing to hear
this daily practice of beinggritty and continuing to write.
And and I absolutely willdouble click on what you say
Sometimes I listened to my first10 podcast episodes.
You know I've published 200plus across the different shows
that I've been on.
Now I go back and I listen tomy early days as a host and I'm
like cringy right.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
What was I thinking?
But everybody loves them.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So many people message me and they're like I
love these episodes and I'm likethat's some of my worst work in
my mind, but they love it and Italked to some of my other
friends that are musicians andthey're like, yeah, it's always
the song on the album that youdidn't even think about, that
people end up loving.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
so right, that way.
That's interesting.
Yeah, it's again that in pot.
Well, to me that it sounds likea combination of almost the
imposter syndrome, but also likeuh, okay, I'm just gonna keep
doing this because other peopleseem to like it.
You, you're probably gonna hateit, right, you?
Whatever, your first thing isthat you create, but you have to
keep going.
So that's the message.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, and you go back , and now it's like I almost
look back on it and I'mnostalgic and I'm grateful.
I'm grateful that I think I was19, maybe 20.
20-year-old me was willing tolook funny to all of his friends
and sit behind a mic.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Exactly Right.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
I'm super grateful for that version of me and the
version that he kind of allowedme to become over the years.
Just like you're probablygrateful for the version of you
eight years ago that decided toleap into this.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Oh, for sure, For sure and honestly never look
back, never look back.
I can never work for any, foranyone else.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Um, so if everybody is listening to this and they're
like, wow, like, either youknow, let's say they're in the
design build contracting space,or maybe they want to read your
book, or they just want toconnect with you because they
think you're an awesome person,where are some places where
people can find you these days?

Speaker 2 (43:12):
For sure.
So I honestly first andforemost my book right.
Get them.
It's getthemtocarcom.
Very simple, very easy, kind oflearn more about what the
book's, about how it might beable to help you.
Also, you can find me onLinkedIn.
It's Julie M Wanzer.
Send me a connection.
I love connecting with people,reading their profiles, getting

to know more about them, sodefinitely hit me up on LinkedIn
Get them to carecom, and yeah,I'd love to.
And two, I'm more than willingto meet with both Indie
Collective alums or people maybeconsidering Indie Collective
like, hey, how was yourexperience Hit me up, right?
Please send me a message, notso much to be like, oh, you have
to do this, but I'm more thanwilling to help people who were

in that.
I was in their shoes eightyears ago, right.
Or even two years ago when Idecided to take the class.
No one helped me, right.
So to me it's my, I don't know.
I feel like an obligation to toreach back right and help
others who might be.
I could help put them in abetter position.
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