S2 E11 Montessori at home whether you are homeschooling or not with Jeanne-Marie Paynel and Pilar Bewley

Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Hi everyone, Simone Davies herewith another episode of The
Montessori Notebook podcast. Ihope you've had a lovely week
and I'm looking forward tosharing another fun conversation
with you today. And I haven'tgot just one amazing guest for
you, but to form a conversationabout Montessori at home. So I
invited Jeanne-Marie Paynel,Your Parenting Mentor, and Pilar
Bewley from Mainly Montessori,to look at how we can apply

(00:34):
Montessori principles in ourhomes, whether or not we're
homeschooling our child, or theygo to a non Montessori school,
or they haven't started schoolyet. But we want to be applying
Montessori at home. So we coverchildren from zero to 12 in this
conversation, and we look at howmuch sorry can be done on a
budget, things like Montessoriand minimalism, Montessori
training and a whole lot more.
So I hope you'll enjoy it asmuch as I did. But before we get

(00:57):
to my conversation withJeanne-Marie and Pilar, I wanted
to revisit the idea of lookingthrough our children's eyes,
because it's definitely been acommon theme on the podcast, you
know, looking from theirperspective, to help us
understand what's going on forthem, and to give some guidance
when necessary. And it was backin 2015, when I had a kind of
aha moment when I was speakingto a parent who couldn't really

(01:19):
understand why their child wasbehaving in the way they were
doing. So it came to me and Isaid to them, oh, we're kind of
being their translator, becausea baby or a toddler may not be
able to express themselves. Andwe can translate or guess that
what they're trying to tell us.
And we might be saying, like,for example, oh, that was a big
bang, did it give you a shock.
And even a child who has thelanguage, they might also need a

(01:42):
translator in those times whenthey're having trouble
expressing themselves, like achild who's hitting or throwing
something, and we can again, seehis behavior, and instead, we
translate for them to help givethem the words for what might be
going on? I can't let you hitme. Are you telling me that
you're frustrated? It didn'twork? And like when I was
speaking to this parent, youknow, you see their eyes light

(02:02):
up? Ah, okay, I get it. Yeah,it's we're kind of being the
translator. And I think thatbeing the translator can be
super useful, because it alsohelps other people to understand
what's going on for our child.
So for example, if we're in aplaygroup, and our child's
reaching out to someone else'stoy, we can say, Oh, it looks
like you want to play with that,let's ask if they'd be happy for

(02:23):
you to have a turn when they'redone. So we translated what it
looks like them trying to snatcha toy, to actually being helpful
to give them the language to askif they can have a turn where
they're done. And then the otheradult also understands what's
going on for our child. I thinkit really also helps our child
see that we accept them andtheir feelings, like as I always
say, all of the feelings, eventhe big, ugly, scary ones. And

(02:46):
you know, when those feelings,obviously, coming out is hitting
or biting, we're going to stopthat behavior which could hurt
someone or something. And thenwe can translate. And then we're
modeling the words for them tosay, maybe it won't come out
this time. But we know thatwe're giving them the words for
another time. And I think alsowith siblings, or friends, it
can be really helpful totranslate what we see, rather
than taking sides or blaming oneof them, or asking them like

(03:10):
what happened, you know, you'renever going to get the truth in
that situation anyway. Soinstead, we can translate for
them both like, Oh, it lookslike you want to play with your
sister, and looks like you wantto play all by yourself. And
then we can be that guide to seeif they can work out a solution
together. And you might hearthem say, Oh, it's not that I
don't want to play with you. Ijust want to finish this first,
and then I'll be available. Soit also helps them start to

(03:33):
articulate and translate forthemselves. So when we are
translating for our child, wealso answer busy, we're taking
the child's behavior aspersonally because we are
thinking about what they'retrying to tell us. And this
means that we can support ourchild without us getting upset,
too. And that said, I am surethat there are moments when we
wish that someone would justinvent google translate for

(03:55):
children, when we really have noidea what's going on. And then
I'll just translate for myselflike something like, I wish I
knew what I could do to help youright now. But I'm here if you
need me. Some other examples Ican think of would be like a
toddler who's about to pushanother child. And we can
observe and like, Oh, actually,I see that they're worried about
that child going to touch mytoys. So we could translate. Are

(04:16):
you saying that you want to playby yourself right now? Or I've
even seen toddlers run up toother kids and push them. And it
looks like they're actually justwanting to play with them. So
then the translation would besomething like, oh, did you want
to ask if you can play too. Andmany of us have had that child
who's hiding behind your leg.
And again, we can translate forthem. Oh, is it that you don't
feel like talking right now. AndI also love using it with a baby

(04:38):
who has an older sibling whohasn't been so gentle and they
start crying and so then we cantranslate for the baby. Oh, I
think the baby's saying thatthey like it when you're gentle.

(05:00):
And one other thing abouttranslating, and in fact, many
of the Montessori principles, Iwould say is that it works with
adults too. So when a friend ora partner is upset or hurt, we
can guess at what they'refeeling or needing and translate
for them. And if we ourselves,we shattered it, our kids or we
nag them, we can also say, Oh,I'm sorry, I shouted. I think

(05:21):
what I was trying to say is thatI'd like some acknowledgement
when I cook dinner for thefamily, and then we're
translating it into a way that'smore likely to be heard. So I
think that being a translatormight be the answer we have been
looking for. And I'm curious tohear if this resonates with you,
too. And now it's time for myconversation with Jeanne-Marie
and Pilar so enjoy.

(05:50):
Hi, everyone, Simone Davies hereand I am so excited. This is
going to be such a funconversation because we have two
wonderful monster educators withus today. I'm going to be
talking with Jeanne-Marie Payneland Pilar Bewley who have both
been working in Montessori formany years and are both
Montessori parents. And so Ican't wait to share their wisdom
with you today. And so,Jeanne-Marie, let's start with

(06:13):
you. Um, I have known youactually for quite a long time.
Because we have done theMontessori show together. You
turned up one year in Amsterdam,and we had lunch at the
Montessori AMI AGM which was adelight to get to meet in
person, we went to Prague, andit got to be roommates. And so
it felt like you're my bigsister. So I don't need too much
introduction. But I'm sure thateveryone listening would love to

(06:35):
hear how you came to Montessoriafter actually quite a different
background. So Hello, everybody.
And thanks, Simone, for havingme always a delight to chat with
you. So Montessori came about ina kind of, I don't know, a very
bizarre way. But it was meant tobe kind of way where I picked up
just one book when I wasexpecting my first child, that

(06:58):
was the secret of childhood, byMaria Montessori. Read it, the
only book I read gave me thisvery strong intuition and
knowing that I just had tofollow my child and that she
would show me who she needed meto be as her parent as her
guide. And then fast forwardeight years later, I've had a

(07:21):
second child. I've moved to theUnited States in San Diego. And
I'm contemplating moving back toEurope after

(10:00):
My Montessori story. Thank youso much. I'm Marie and I love
that. It's just like you're inthe right place. It's almost
like you answered the questionwith one sentence that she knew
as well that it was a good fitfor you. Exactly, exactly. I'm
feeling you actually were aMontessori child yourself. So,
you were about to have a familyand you went back to become a
Montessori educator. I mean, howdid that come about? Yeah, so I

(10:22):
was a Montessori child throughthe third grade. And the only
reason I left Montessori wasbecause we moved to a city where
there were no Montessorielementaries. And so, we, my
parents had to put me in publicschool. But I never thought that
I would be a teacher until so Iwas a I went into the
hospitality industry, I had myown event planning company, I

(10:44):
was very, you know, financiallysuccessful. But I wasn't feeling
this sense of contributing ofgiving back, like Jeanne-Marie
was saying, I was just workingfor money. And it got to a point
where that was not fulfillinganymore. And, and so at that
point, I was dating my nowhusband, and we knew we wanted
to start a family. And I knew Ididn't want to continue with

(11:05):
this pace of life. And so I satdown to meditate, because I was
30 years old, no clue what to dowith the rest of my life. And I
sat down to meditate. And I putthis question out there and I
said, you know, what should I dowith my life, and a voice came
back, that said, you need towork with children. And I
remember opening my eyes and belike, I don't really even like

(11:26):
children.

(12:59):
And, you know, a couple of weeksinto it, it was very interesting
from a, you know, psychologicalperspective, and, and all of
that, but a couple of weeks intoit, I, there was the model
classroom, which I think wasJeanne-Marie's classroom,
actually, um, and I was standingoutside the model classroom with
the one way windows, and I waswatching this little four year
old girl, I'm never going toforget. And she was doing a

(13:20):
metal inset, and she stood upand she put all her materials on
her tray, and she got up, wentto the metal inset rack, put
everything back where itbelonged. And she her sense of
composure, and dignity andmaturity at the age of four,
just blew me away. And that'swhat I knew, Oh, my gosh, like
this, this is what I want to do.
This is what children arecapable of, you know, we've

(13:40):
we've been shortchanging them,and like, I've been
shortchanging them. And so thatchild, that experience, totally
set me on on a path. And then Ibecame a primary guide, I worked
for two years, the primaryguide, and, and to kind of wrap
up the story. My husband, who'sa professor of mechanical

(14:00):
engineering came to my primaryclassroom and I showed him the
trinomial cube, you know, heasked, What is this? And so he
explained the mathematical, youknow, concept behind the cube.
And he looked at me, he said,Every child deserves to learn
math this way. What do you needto do? Where do you need to go?
So that you can learn how toteach this in elementary like

(14:23):
for for children who actuallyunderstand the formula? And I
said, Well, you know, the besttraining center that I know of
is Italy. And we got short, longstory short, we got married
three weeks later, I was on aplane to Italy, and to train in
bergamot and from then I went onto become an elementary guide.

(14:44):
And then after almost the, Ithink was like seven or eight
years in the classroom, I endedup homeschooling my children,
which is a whole other story,but that was my journey. Yes,
we'll be getting the I thinkit's really inspiring because I
think many listeners aren'tworking in Montessori
And then they start to think,oh, but I've been doing this
other career for a long time,but it's not really, you know,

(15:05):
feels to be my, I'm good at it.
I'm successful at it, but itdoesn't really feed me. And so I
think it's really inspiring tohear Yeah, you don't have to
have it all figured out. You cango and do a Montessori training
and you can change your life. Soit's really, really fun. And
Jeanne-Marie, going back to you.
If someone asked you today, whatdoes Montessori mean to you that
might be different to what youmight have answered at the

(15:25):
beginning of your Montessorijourney. So today, what's coming
up for you? What is Montessorimean to you today? For me, it's
really the the understanding ofhuman development, it's really
kind of agentle guidebook to to help us
understand what each human weencounter needs from us, and

(15:47):
especially our children that theyoung humans, and yeah, it's
really, it's a way of life forme. It's not it's definitely
not, you know, just for theclassroom. It's from prenatal
through career. So it's really awhole lifespan. Now we have it
with with our elders. So it'sreally, that understanding human

(16:10):
development and how we canrespectfully engaged and guide
each other. Yeah, I think that'samazing. That is like through
our whole lives, it's a way ofnot just dealing with children.
Because I think when I firstheard about Montessori, I only
thought it was like a three tosix age group in the UK, because
that's where I'd first beenintroduced to it, and it's where

(16:32):
most of the classrooms are. Andthen you learn about it from
birth. And you're like, thatmakes sense. Oh, then you hear
about in utero? Oh, that makessense. Oh, let's actually
empower the elders as well. Sohearing about the dementia work
that's going on is reallyamazing as well. And Pilar
hasn't evolved for you as well,you'll maybe have Montessori as
you've been in longer, longer.

(16:53):
Absolutely. And I think a bigpart of where it evolved, it was
when I left the classroom. And,you know, I spent my entire
career I think about 12 yearsthat I was in the classroom,
thinking that I was doingMontessori. But when I left and
I started homeschooling, it waslike a weight had been lifted

(17:14):
off my shoulders restrictionshad been taken away. And I
realized that for the firsttime, I was truly able to follow
my children, follow theirdevelopment follow their
interests, because I was nolonger beholden to schedules and
impose routines and assessmentsand, you know, parental concerns

(17:36):
and all of these things. I wasjust free to follow my children
haven't what what struck me wasthat Montessori looks so
different in the home than itthan it does in the classroom.
And it even looks different fromwhat you read in some of the
books, right because most of Dr.
Montessori's work was inclassrooms, most of our

(17:59):
observations were in classrooms.
And so at home, it's going tolook very different. And so I
had to go back to the true coreprinciples. And, and kind of re
envision them in a home setting,and with the parent as a guide,
kind of playing that rule, dualrole of parents and guide. And

(18:22):
so it gave me a whole newunderstanding of Montessori of
the role of the adults of thepotential of children. And once
I stepped out ofand that is why I have both of
you in our podcast conversationtoday is because it's Montessori
at home. So Jeanne-Marie isgoing to talk more about how you
apply the principles maybe ifyou have a child at school, and

(18:43):
how you would still apply theprinciples at home and paella
from the homeschoolingperspective, where you have
those double heads and actuallypeel out How does your day look
in the homeschooling world? Doyou have certain times of day
when at school? Or is it reallythat it's just learning whenever
learning happens? Or a bit ofboth? Yeah, so this is one thing
that has been so fascinating isthat our schedule our routine or
rhythm changes, literally weekto week. And so you know, a

(19:08):
school routine always stays thesame. And, and the children can
have to fit into that routine,but at home, I can really follow
my children's moods and and justjust their vibe, and I've
noticed that the more I try tomake them fall into what I
consider a good routine, theharder it is. And the more that

(19:32):
I kind of sit with them and saywhat do we want collectively our
week to look like? And you know,here are some of the things that
are available for us like forexample our nature club, or a
field trip or you know, alibrary visit.
How are we going to work or weakaround it? The more I can

(19:53):
involve them, the more receptivethey are, and the more connected
they are to the whole learningprocess. I've had to let go of a
lot of these preconceivednotions of school routine. And
the parents that I work withasked me, What is your routine
look like? Because I need myroutine to look like your thing.
And it's like I feel, you know,there's a pressure to say like,

(20:17):
well, this is what you need todo. But the reality is that we
need to follow our children.
Right. And so, some weeks,there's very structured, this is
what we're going to learn, youknow, this is when I'm available
for lessons. And then otherweeks. 9pm is when we are, you
know, all of a sudden developingan interest in geography. And my

(20:38):
son is asking questions aboutthe world map, um, my daughter
is an early riser. And so 7amI'm doing read aloud. 7am we're
doing art, I'm my son wakes upat 11am. And so you know, he
kind of gets going by 3pm iswhen he wants to get ready to do
division. And so I've had tolearn to kind of embrace a

(20:59):
little bit of the of the chaos.
And also realize that learninghappens all the time. And so
that was very liberating. When Iwas able to step back, observe
and realize that 90% of whatthey learned does not come from
me sitting with them and doing aformal lesson. But it comes from
the questions that they'reasking me, you know, while I'm

(21:19):
parallel parking, or Well, youknow, I'm in line for the
grocery store, things like that.
And that's when their questionscome up. And that's, those are
the learning opportunities.
Yeah, that's brilliant.
Actually, I wrote down, he'dwritten, I've learned that
monster isn't something you do,it's a way to live. And I
thought that was such a good,like, summary of what we're
going to talk about today.
Because you don't just stoplearning when you get picked up

(21:42):
from school. You know, there'slearning happening all the time.
And what if they are havinglike,
just the rhythm for a couple ofweeks, maybe might stop and
they're not doing anytraditional learning, that kind
of thing? Yes. And it can bereally stressful for parents who
haven't taken the time to stepback and identify all of the
different modalities that thatlearning can come in.

(22:03):
Yeah. And so don't worry over itat the home when you're working
with families who have theirchildren at school but still
want to apply Montessoriprinciples at home. How can you
engage learning at home if youwanted to be applying the
Montessori approach? What do youtell parents?
So the the basic really is aboutinvolving your children in just

(22:25):
family life. And I think thatthat's a big that's a big part
of you know, quote unquote,doing Montessori at home it to
me it is something that I thinkI did very intuitively so I will
I do have a caveat. My childrennever went to Montessori School.
My daughter went to a Montessoriinspired school for about two

(22:50):
years before going to the thelocal public school. My son, I
was told was too old to enter aMontessori School, which was
very sad to me when he was aboutto be a five year old. But
that's that's life, right? Andso for me, Montessori can be

(23:10):
done for you know, anyone,whether they go to Montessori
schools or not, and it's reallyabout how we really welcoming
our child into our home, how weadapting our homes, so that our
children can adapt to, to lifeon planet Earth, to their time,

(23:32):
place and culture with ease.
Because we, we do live in a veryadult centric environment. And,
you know, we want to, you know,create a beautiful local nursery
for them and everything, butsometimes when we look at those,
there's nothing reallydevelopmentally appropriate for
for our babies, or our toddlers,and so on. So I really, you

(23:54):
know, working with parents, Ihave them sit on the floor, and
look at their home from theirchild's perspective and, and
really learn to observe and see,you know, what it is, what is it
that their child keeps on askingfor, like, is there a way that
we could make it accessible forthem so that they can reach

(24:15):
things on their own do thingsfor themselves and such? So that
to me, is part of that learning?
You know, and like PLR You know,when you're, when you're living
with children, it's it's 24hours seven of learning there,
they go through differentphases. And you know, remember
that, you know, that phase withmy son is the whys. Why why why,

(24:39):
why everything why and when yousay, I don't know there are why.
So that's, that's, you know,that's to me, just just lifelong
learners. And that's what wehave to remember is children
come to us eager to learncurious of everything, and
constantly learning so we haveto be constantly learning with

(24:59):
them. And I know that you're sopassionate about like Montessori
and minimalism, like becausethat could be the other extreme
is yes, the adult centric or isthe other way around is that
there's just toys everywhere.
And they can't find anything.
They're bored all the time. Andwe don't set up our spaces for
them to have an interesting,curious place to. So could you
talk to that, like, what isminimalism and Montessori and

(25:22):
how do they fit together?
So for me, it's, it's reallyabout creating an environment
that is going to be pleasing toyou. Like, I feel that when a
lot of families when they, youknow, welcome children into
their homes, all of a sudden,you know, the living room has to
look like a daycare and apreschool. And there's there's

(25:43):
things everywhere, like you say,and actually, it's funny,
because I was working with aprivate client yesterday, and
they just moved into a biggerplace. And she was creating her
office space in kind of the, youknow, playroom of these two, two
little children. And I couldtell that it was stressing her

(26:04):
because there was like, a lot ofthings on the shelves, and I
said, You know what, let's sitdown on front of the shelf, take
everything off, and only puteight items back because there
were eight cubes.
And you'll see it gives you kindof a sense of relief and all
this and I could see just, youknow, that sense kind of
disappear from her. So when Isay, you know, minimalism and

(26:27):
Montessori it's really this ideathat in Montessori, we're
creating an environment, we'repreparing the environment for
our children, they're often verybeautiful, because we know that
beauty attracts, and we, we havebeautiful little objects like
you do in your, you know,beautiful environment that you

(26:47):
have for the children. And so Ireally want parents to
understand that for themselves,that it's going to kind of lower
their own anxiety, right, it'sgoing to be about creating a
place that is harmonious foreverybody. It's not letting the
child you know, stuff tape overand and, and and honestly,

(27:11):
children are just happy to beplaying with sticks and stones
like they don't need all thatmuch right it's that's that's
the the baby industry that isvery wealthy that just keeps on
pushing stuff on. But honestly,they are just so satisfied with
helping you in the kitchen withwith folding laundry with you
with with reading books withwith ripping up paper, like they

(27:33):
don't need so much. So to helpyou understand that that's where
my kind of, you know, veryminimalistic approach. And I've
always been that way. I think itjust comes from having moved
many times traveled a lot. I Idon't have that many
possessions. And I think that,you know, it has made life with
children that much easier. Yeah.
And I think that children alsolearn to be more conscious of

(27:56):
the world and what we're takingout of the earth, and actually
what we could be putting backinto the earth instead. And so
Pilar, what does this preparedenvironment look like then as a
homeschooling family, I mean,there's so many different
elements, because I thinkminimalism would be great, but
what if my child needs all thesethings so that they can learn to
read? And how do you balance theboth of those sides? It is it is

(28:19):
a huge juggling act for sure. Ilive in 1000 square foot home,
which I don't know what ittranslates to in meters, but
it's small, it's very small. Andit was pretty tiny. And our
living room has become our, youknow, classroom, if you will.
But the reason that I haveeverything in our living room is
because that's where we spendmost of the day. And so it

(28:43):
allows me to be cooking or youknow, the children to be in the
same area that I am, andengaging independently in their
own work or in their owncuriosities. And what I found to
be helpful iswithout necessarily having to

(31:01):
walk them through all of thedifferent materials that they
would walk through in aMontessori classroom. And
that's, that's a lot of what Isee online is the parents being
overwhelmed with like, you know,I need these five different
materials to walk my childthrough to be able to do
addition on paper, it's like,well, no, that's not that's not
true. I'm in an elementaryclassroom. Yes, that would be

(31:24):
wonderful. But it's notnecessary. Right. So what is
what is essential? And what is,you know, technically, what you
would see in a classroom are twodifferent things. And, and the
home allows for that kind ofminimalism to happen in your
choice of materials. I thinkit's interesting, isn't it,

(31:45):
because it becomes more likeinvitations. And I guess, we've
talked on the podcast beforeabout going out in elementary
class, where you actually don'twant every material in your home
anyway, because you want theopportunity for them to exhaust
what you have at home, so thatthey need to go out and find
materials and the answer issomewhere else. So has that have
you ever had some fun goingsouth maybe more virtually, at

(32:06):
the moment, but what does goingout look like in your
homeschooling? Absolutely. So inwe've really had an opportunity
to explore nature, which wedidn't when my children were in
school, I'm you know, I wasworking to my husband was
working and so weekends, we'rejust kind of running errands and
cleaning the house and thingslike that. And so now we make it

(32:26):
a point to go explore in natureat least twice a week. And
everything that nature is ableto provide to us from you know,
sticks and stones likeJeanne-Marie was saying to, you
know, to play with and to createwith and to make art with and to
lifecycles being able to look ata pond and actually see the frog

(32:48):
and the tadpoles and the eggsand the whole ecosystem of the
pond.
That has been what then we bringhome in our minds, and turn into
conversations and research and,and, and learning opportunities.
And so you know, I don't need tohave the three part cards for

(33:13):
the lifecycle of the frog, Idon't need to have the cute
little et CIE material for thelifecycle of the frog, I just
need to take my children out innature and let them Putz around
in a pond and see what theydiscover and then bring that
home. So that has been such apowerful kind of, it's been very
cathartic to realize that theprepared environment goes

(33:36):
outside of what I can create inmy home. And and that it's
available outside. And the otherthing that has been really kind
of relaxing for me is therealization that I don't need to
know everything, when you'rewhen you're a classroom teacher,
you kind of need to be you know,a know it all. And if the
children are interested in youknow, history, you become a

(33:57):
history expert, if they'reinterested in engineering, you
become an engineering expert.
And at home, I've let go ofthat. And I've become much more
of a facilitator, especially formy son who's nine, and his
knowledge of things likeengineering are starting to go
way beyond what I know. And sonow, these kind of virtual
goings out, like, like you said,is connecting him with the

(34:19):
resources and the kits or theexperts that will allow him to
make progress in his area ofinterest without me needing to
know it all. And so so that'sbeen very reassuring that I
don't need to, to be an expertin in electrical engineering. I
can just, you know, connect himand then he shows me which is so

(34:39):
beautiful. To have that reverselearning experience.
Yeah, john rages at resonate foryou as well, like not having to
be the expert in everything thata child's going through. Oh,
yes, yes.
Because I mean, I think thatthat's our role as parents is to
be like Pollara says thefacility. It's really about

(35:01):
know, when they ask yousomething, it's like, oh, wow,
that's a great question. I don'tknow, let's find out and, and
really explore and be able toorient them to maybe somebody
who is more knowledgeable or ora book or, or such. I think that
that is part of what we weretalking about earlier of us, you

(35:23):
know, having these curious mindsthat need to keep on, keep on
feeding that curiosity and beingcurious with them. We learned
so, so much from our children.
Soyeah, so I think that actually,
the term going out is oftenassociated with elementary
class, but I really feel likeI'm doing it with toddlers and
with babies, like, I don't know,let's find out. And I might say

(35:44):
that even if I do know, but it'sreally fun to make the discovery
together. And then it reallybecomes authentic in the
elementary age. So I think it'sreally fun. And actually, below,
I would love for you to talk tous about your wonder wall.
Because this is well, instead ofjust googling something, what is
the wonderful in your home?
Yeah, so that I want to kind ofgive credit where credit is due.

(36:06):
So I learned that from JulieBogart, who does who wrote the
book, brave learner. And she,she's very aligned with
Montessori without, you know,saying it, but the way that she
approaches things is to embracethe qualities of the home, and,
and not turn your home into aclassroom, which is, you know,

(36:28):
what we all we all speak to. Andso she recommended making a
wall, having sticky notes and apen available, and just having a
part of the wall where anytimeyour child asks a question,
write it down, slap it on thewall, anytime you have a
question or your spouse, writeit down, slap it on the wall,
and it can be, you know, goingto be something profound, like,

(36:49):
you know, why are we on thisplanet? And it can be something
silly, like, who won the WorldSeries last year?
You know, it'sjust anything? Because what you
want to encourage? Is thatquestion asking, right?
Nowadays, question asking is somuch more important than having
the right answer all the time,right? Because we need to figure

(37:09):
out how to ask questions, tolook for the answers on the
internet, or, you know, all themassive number of resources we
have available. If we don't knowwhat to ask, then we're not
going to get the right answers.
And so, you know, encouragingchildren to be question asker is
also kind of breaks with thescheme of knowing it all, or

(37:34):
knowing the right answer.
Because when you invite yourchild to ask questions, and you
put them up on this wall, thenyou can kind of hypothesize as a
family and say, Well, you know,why? Why do you think this? You
know, why do you think cloudsare white? Well, you know, and
then the, the four year oldmight come up with their own
idea, and the seven year oldmight have their own idea. And,
and so you, you get themthinking, and you get those

(37:56):
creative juices flowing. And soit has so many different aspects
that that are beneficial for thehome. Um, and, you know, one of
them is that it creates yourcurriculum. And so instead of
having to pour through albumsand say, Okay, now what am I
going to present? And you know,which, which track Am I going to
follow? You just look at yourWonderwall and you say, Okay, so

(38:17):
this child wants to learn abouthorses, and this child wants to
learn about soldiers, and howcan I kind of combine that and,
you know, make it into a reallycool exploration? Which books do
I need? What, what stories can Itell, and boom, you have your
you have your lesson planningfor the week on your wall, you
know, so it's, it's so powerfulin so many different ways. And

(38:40):
it's very easy. You know, youdon't need any special
technology or special training.
Just listen, write down. Andthen don't forget that the
questions are up there. Because,you know, and because sometimes
in our zeal to teach what wethink is important, we forget
what's important to thechildren. And we start there.
I think that following thechild, I mean, don't worry, we

(39:01):
work with younger children, zeroto six. And so in some ways,
because they're not asking thequestions, we have to be
observing very closely whattheir interests are. So we're
like being there curated. Sowhen you were talking about that
minimalist shelf, and justchoosing eight things, how do
you help parents select what arethe things that my child is
going to be interested in?
Because if you choose the wrongones, they're also not going to
be super engaged. Right?

(39:21):
Right. And it's in it's throughthat, you know, beautiful skill
that we need to learn is, isobservation is really observing,
with with a clear mind, youknow, without judgment, without
preconceived ideas of seeingwhat is fascinating to them, you
know, well, one time it was aparent describing their child

(39:44):
taking all of the coasters fromthe coffee table and sliding
then in between the books on thebookshelf. I went, Oh, that's
interesting. You know, maybe alittle coin box would be would
be good because it was it waslike it was an interest that
they were Showing, or, you know,oftentimes I have parents
telling me that, you know,they're making a mess with

(40:05):
water. And I said, Well, that's,that's a great observation, they
probably need some, you know,some water transferring or, you
know, maybe engage them inwashing the dishes, and, you
know, they're showing you theneed. And to me, that's what
observation teaches us is thatwe see what it is that they are
needing to master at anyspecific time. And especially

(40:30):
for the young child, that weknow go through these, you know,
moment in time when they're whenthey're fascinated with with a
particular aspect, you know,that we call the sensitive
periods. But if we can detectthose and feed into them, then
wow, you know, we're makingprogress. And we're seeing that

(40:52):
in our child being so focusedand engage in just just very
satisfied. So yes, and and Ijust wanted to add to to that
beautiful wonderworld, itreminded me of a quote, and I'm
sorry, I, I'm drawing a blank asto who but it's, it goes
something about the quality ofour life depends on the quality

(41:13):
of the questions that we ask.
And I think it is justbeautiful, because that is so
much, you know, of how enrichingpilares children's life is from
from just being having a spaceto, to ask those questions
freely. And that it that thereare, you know, no, no questions
off the table, everything goesup on that wall. I think that is

(41:34):
just beautiful.
And can I can I add something tothat? Yeah, the reason that the
the Wonderwall resonated a lotwith me when I first started
homeschooling, so I didn't havea Wonderwall in my classroom,
but I should have. But thereason it really resonated with
me is because when I was aclassroom teacher, I noticed a
lot of anxiety with my studentsto get the right answer, right,

(41:56):
because they live in an Alexasociety, right? They live in a
series society, where are theanswers are at our fingertips.
And so there's this pressurewhen the child says, you know,
Daddy, why is the ocean blue?
It's like, hey, Alexa, why isthe ocean blue? And and
immediately, there's an answer,right? And so the message that
the child gets is, oh, I musthave a right answer for

(42:18):
everything. And I must have itnow. I must have it immediately.
And when we disengage from that,and allow the children to ponder
their questions, and we honorand celebrate their questions,
they relax, they relax into thequestion asking, and they're no
longer worried about whetherthey are right. You know, and so

(42:40):
and so we just kind of honor theprocess, as opposed to jumping
straight to the answer.
Yeah, that's beautiful. Oh,okay. Let's make question
answers about children, youknow, because if they're asking
the right questions, they'rebeing curious about the world.
They're not also waiting forthis top down approach. And
really, I think for people whocome from a traditional

(43:01):
background, it takes a lot ofunlearning for ourselves to
stop, you know, teaching, wealways want to say, oh, what
color is that? And we'repointing to so many things. I'm
trying to teach all the time.
And to just step back and justbe curious with the child. It's
a big shift, I think, for a lotof parents. So I think some
people are worried thatMontessori at home would be
expensive, you know? So ifyou're doing it after school,

(43:22):
and I need to buy all thesematerials, do I or homeschooling
is that also expensive. So witheither of you like to start on
that one, does Montessori haveto be expensive.
So I'll start just because I'mmore the the earlier years, and
I'll let PLR go into the wholehomeschooling and I know she

(43:42):
does a lot of work about keepingit at a reasonable price. For
me, like I said earlier, youknow, you don't need much, and
you just need to really beobservant and see what you
already have in your home. Thereis just so many, you know, tools

(44:03):
that you have in your home thatyour child is interested in. And
for me, it's really about, likeI said, is really about
including them in everythingthat already happens in the
home. The child has beenobserving you from the time they
were born, they've been they'vebeen watching you they want to
do what you're doing. So it'sreally about inviting them into

(44:25):
those tasks. And it's, you know,that's the Montessori curriculum
for the toddlers in primary itspractical life. So we have all
that at our disposal at home.
You don't need any material forthat. So So, you know, I would
say, you can definitely do on abudget. Yes, you can. You know,
there's some beautifulsubscription boxes and things

(44:47):
where you can buy material ifyour budget allows, but there's
also, you know, I've helpedfamilies here, just do kind of a
communal where there's oneHave toys they buy and they,
they, they exchange. So kind ofa co op type thing. So there's
plenty of different ways we justneed to think outside the box.

(45:07):
There's, you know, wonderfullittle things that you can make
at home yourself. You know, inour training, we're taught to do
a lot of things to makematerials. So there's parents
that can make that. So yes, no,definitely. You know, Montessori
is for for everybody. small andbig budgets. And I really the

(45:31):
myth that Montessori is, youknow, expensive or only for the
wealthy. We need to take thataway, because it's so not true.
Yeah, it would be great to makeit more accessible to more
people for sure. And so PilarYeah, now with the older
children, do you find that itgets expensive or? Well, what
I've noticed is that people tendto buy materials out of a sense

(45:54):
of fear. Like, if I buy this onemore material, then maybe my
child will get excited aboutlearning, right? Or maybe
Finally, they will sit and do alesson with me. And all that
happens is that that becomes onemore material gathering dust on
the shelf. And soone question to ask is, am I
going to do this homeschoolingthing, short term or long term?

(46:17):
Am I hybrid homeschooling in aweekend homeschooling after
schooling, or am I in it for thelong haul, through middle school
or even beyond? Right, so if youare in it, for the long haul,
then investing in acute, youknow, few key materials is
important, especially because ofthe precision that is necessary

(46:39):
to really transmit those thoseconcepts. And so for example,
fractions, the you know, youmight be tempted to make them by
yourself. But the reality isthat they might not be as
accurate as you need them to befor, especially for a younger
child to really be able tounderstand and get that that
correct impression. So there arecertain materials that that you

(47:01):
do want to purchase. But one ofthe blessings of the whole
pandemic is that people startedbeing pushed into creating
printables, right, they had togo the digital route, because
children needed to continuelearning and they needed to do
it at home. And so suddenly, youhave this explosion of very well
made very accurate materialsthat you can print out for a

(47:28):
couple of bucks. And you know,just just be very careful with
how you create them payattention to what you're doing.
And you will have, you know, aperfectly functional material
that usually would have cost you40 $50. And I even have one of
the parents that I work withnow, she's creating materials
with this Cricut cuttingmachines that I wasn't even

(47:49):
aware of. But she's making, youknow, the cubing material, which
is hundreds of dollars, andshe's making it very accurately
with this machine. So, really,your creativity is the limit
when it comes to makingmaterials for the elementary
years. And also identifying whatyour child really needs. And
what is coming from your senseof fear and, and, you know,

(48:11):
feeling of lack, and if I onlyhad this material, then my child
would, you know, wouldparticipate more. So really
honing in on on what'snecessary. And I think investing
in yourself, like in your owneducation, in a good set of
albums, a good curriculum, and agood understanding of what
Montessori is, goes a lotfarther than having a shelf with

(48:35):
$4,000 worth of materials thatyou have no idea how to use no
idea how to connect your childto it, you know, so so investing
in yourself is going to go a lotlonger and a lot more of a
return than just throwing yourmoney on a bunch of materials.
I think that's really important.
Actually, I'd love to talk aboutMontessori training because it's

(48:57):
something that I haven't spokenabout on any of the podcasts.
Like for usual Marie, was yourMontessori training, like a
transformational experience andhow much work was it? What was
your experience of Montessoritraining?
So I did my Montessori training,like I buy, you know, shared at

(49:18):
the beginning, you know, left toleft a career, corporate job and
such and, and it was a lot ofwork. I, you know, I was I was
older 43 I had two youngchildren at home. And it was a
full time job, being a studentbecause I was in school all day.

(49:39):
And then you know, this is I'mgoing to date myself, but we
weren't allowed to have laptopsin the classroom. So everything
was handwritten notes. And inthe evening, it was to
transcribe everything on to youknow, onto my computer because
basically in the training atleast In the AMI training, you

(50:02):
actually create your own albums.
So, these are basically going tobe the textbooks that you will
use for the rest of yourMontessori career, you, you will
add to them as you go torefresher courses or you, you
know, you listen to somethingand you will you will add to
them. But there are thefoundation. So you have, you
know, an album for practicallife, sensorial mathematics,

(50:25):
language, and music and all ofthe extensions, but you are the
one creating them. And so thatwas a lot of work. And I think,
especially for me coming fromthe graphic design world, I
wanted to make them perfect andbeautiful. So, so it was a lot
of work. But yes, it was it wastransformational. And, and I

(50:48):
think some of the, like, thepleasures that I got is to you
know, you're you're shownpresentation, just as if you
were children, and the trainergives you a presentation, and
then you get to practice, and Iwould come home, and I would do
a presentation, you know, or,or, or I would show my child and

(51:09):
I remember one if you if youknow in the primary, there's
this cloth folding presentationwhere there's little lines, and
you fold and one of them is youfold all of the corners into the
middle, there's a little centralpoint. And so I was showing
this, and lo and behold, at thedinner table, all of the napkins

(51:30):
were folded that way, that day,and I was just like, oh, so
beautiful. So so I was able toshare it with my children as I
went along. And yes, it wastransformative. And just so
many, for me, aha that I gotbecause I had already had
children going through thesephases, without me having this
knowledge was was justbeautiful.

(51:56):
And so there is there's thatmaking the album space, there's
learning to observe. So you do abig observation based, there's
the practical of actuallypractice, right, since being the
child and those kind of thingsas well. It's actually very
comprehensive. And you and it'shands on and
you know, just like Laura'shusband said, you know, when you
have the material, when you haveyour hands on some of the

(52:17):
material, like some of the mathmaterials, like, Oh my gosh,
like, Oh, I get it now. Likeyou, you you understand so many
concepts. And one thing, youknow, what I did is I did my
three to six, first, and thenabout five years later, I went
back to do another training,which was Birth to Three. And

(52:39):
that was also transformative,because you really learn about,
you know, prenatal life, andjust that whole engagement with
the parents, which which, youknow, transformed my life
because that's what I do now,but also a better understanding
of the young child, because whenyou understand where they're

(53:00):
coming from, when they are whenthey're coming into the primary
classroom was to me, again, alot of has, it's like, oh,
that's why the two and a halfyear old does things this way,
you know, as opposed to maybethe four year old, and, and
things like that. So um, andthere, the zero to three is, you

(53:21):
know, very hands on as well. Andeven more observation, there are
250 hours of observation of youtry if you can to observe a
birth, a newborn, you know,young children in their homes,
young children and communities.
So you really hone in on thatobservation skill. And it's an
it's just beautiful, verytransformative.

(53:45):
One of my observations, Ithought, I have to observe a
child sleeping, there's notgoing to be anything to observe.
And I couldn't believe how muchwas going on when a baby was
sleeping when you write it down.
And also funny thing we had todo. We went to the zoo to
observe an animal. Do you alsodo that in the San Diego? Yes,
yeah.
We go to the zoo, we observe aplant we observe objects. Yes,

(54:08):
exactly. And when I was doing myobservation, I was watching a
grizzly bear. And so it didn'tlook like it was doing much. So
everyone would walk past andsay, are the bears not doing
anything? I'm like, get myobservation notes. The Bears
done lots of things come back.
This is very interesting. Soit's really so pillow for you.
Does anything jump out from yourMontessori training, fun
memories or bits? You likedbits, the more difficult parts,
which was what came up for you?

(54:31):
Oh, gosh,I think especially my elementary
training because I am very muchlike, you know, stuck in the
second plane. I guess. For me,it was a relearning, of all of
these things that even throughhigh school I had to go through
in in a traditional way. Andthey never made sense because
they were taught so in such anisolated way. You know, you sat

(54:54):
through chemistry for 45 minutesand then you got up and then you
went to geometry and geometrywas isolated for 45 minutes,
etc. And then you come to thisMontessori training and you, you
understand and you experiencethe interconnectedness of all
human knowledge. And I rememberit wasn't just me it was all of
my classmates were like, oh, whydidn't teachers present this

(55:16):
way? Like, why was learning notgiven to us in this way? Because
now now we're having torediscover everything, right? So
I remember, I remember hatinggeometry in high school, because
it made no sense. It was a bunchof lines on a chalkboard, and
the teacher just, you know,rambling out theorems. And
suddenly, I had the sticks in myhand, and I understood what an

(55:38):
equivalency was. And you know,what, all of these concepts and
it was so beautiful, it was sotangible, and I could connect it
to chemistry, and I couldconnect chemistry to history.
And you know, it was this, thistotal relearning, and it's like,
well, you know, forget thechildren, like I'm doing this
for me like this is, this is,for me, it's such an investment

(55:58):
in myself. And that's what I tryto encourage parents to do now
is, you know, learn alongsideyour child, you don't have to
know everything, you have tofall in love with learning
again. And if you fall in lovewith learning, your child will
fall in love with learning. Andso that's what I think the
elementary training gives you isthis, this newfound appreciation
for life. And now I'm horrible,because like, I'll go out on a

(56:21):
date with my husband, and we'llgo on a hike, and I will
homeschool him the entire way.
Like I will, I will tell him,you know, the name of every
animal, and if I don't know it,I'll look it up. And they'll
tell him, like, how the plantsare classified. And, and he just
he, you know, he humors me verymuch, but but you just start
seeing the world so differently.
I, you know, and, and it isgrueling. I mean, the the

(56:43):
elementary training is, is ayear, it's 10 months of just, I
mean, we were, you know, up ateight and still working at
midnight. And again, you know,we were, we had to take notes by
hand, and we had to write ourown albums and take pictures and
the amount of materials that youhave to memorize, and the
stories you have to tell. And soit's, it's an entire year of

(57:05):
living outside of your comfortzone, not just moving outside
your comfort zone and back in,you're just living outside of
your comfort zone. And so it's amassive amount of personal
growth, but so worth it. Hmm.
Oh, well, I hopefully we'veinspired a few people to maybe
look into taking them throughtraining, because I kind of
don't like the idea of someonejust buying the album, it

(57:26):
wouldn't mean anything to me,unless you've really experienced
it and understand the purpose ofit. It's not just to learn the
math, it's actually like a lotof the learnings not even really
in all the materials, but it'sin all the interactions that
happen in the classroom, becauseI think Montessori is often
known for the materials, but alot of the interactions that are
happening in the classroom, it'sthe social element, which

(57:46):
happens even in the baby classand toddler classes, they're
observing others, and then theinteractions in the elementary
class. And don't worry, I wonderif we go back to when you're
working back in the classroom?
In the three to six years? Doyou have some like Montessori
moments, something that maybecame up between the children
where you were like, oh, wow,they discovered that together or
things you weren't quiteexpecting that we didn't know

(58:07):
exactly how your training wouldhave explained it, but that you
just saw that this isMontessori, I'm putting you on
the spot a little bit.
I mean, I was just in all, youknow, all the time, just just
really mesmerized by the focusedand and in the three to six
classroom, you have to rememberthat they're very much they're

(58:28):
working on their own, theyreally like that, that
independence. So they might, youknow, ask a friend to sit at the
table next to them. And they're,they're both choosing different
work, but they really, they'restill really liking to be in
their in their work. But thebeauty that I remember is that
social interaction whensometimes a child, you know, has

(58:52):
an aha and understands and theirtheir eagerness to want to share
it with with children, you know,of wanting to say, you know, let
me show you. And, and I know forme, I would, you know, I would
observe and if a child, an olderchild I had seen had really
mastered a presentation, I wouldlet them present it to a younger

(59:14):
child because I think that theylearned so much from being able
to share their knowledge to theyounger ones. And that to me is
the beauty of the three to sixis that that wide range of
development that goes on becausewhen you welcome a two and a
half year old, and then you knowyou say goodbye to a six year

(59:35):
old, they've gone through somuch and the children
interacting together, sharingtheir knowledge, and really
helping each other. I mean, youknow, it's really that beautiful
quote of Montessori when shesays that, you know, as an
educator, we can say we we'vekind of accomplished our jobs if

(59:56):
we can just step out and let ithappen. It really does. happened
like that is really you know, itdoesn't happen from day one, you
need a few months to everybodyto, you know, kind of get their
their groove and everything. ButI do remember delighting in,
sitting on my stool and justwatching, you know, what was

(01:00:17):
what was happening. And itreally is beautiful to see
humans interact, do work thatthey are fully engaged in, and
just being being content intheir environment because their
needs are being met. And to me,that's the beauty of Montessori.

(01:00:38):
And if we can do that in allhomes, and all school is to see
humans whose needs are trulybeing met. It's, it's a
gorgeous, gorgeous scent.
And I also love that, you know,for the many of them, the
preschool is their first, youknow, outside of the family,
their first society. And sothey're learning to take turns
and walk around someone else'swork. And it's not available

(01:01:01):
right now. So how am I going todeal with that, or an older
child, like you were saying,helping the younger children
learn, oh, that's not availablefor you yet, because you haven't
done that lesson yet. And it'sdone in such a kind and caring
way. And then when they moveinto the elementary, we were
talking just before we hitrecord, about how an elementary
classroom is actually verynoisy, because they're becoming

(01:01:21):
social, and they want to work ingroups, and they don't want an
individual desk anymore. SoPaula, you worked in the
elementary classroom, and thenyou've got elementary children
at your home. It's such adifferent society in a way that
they've moved into when theymove into that
second plane. It is and it's andfor most children, it's, it's
very exciting. And it can alsobe very overwhelming at first,

(01:01:46):
I'm, you know, I used to have totell parents, like your six year
old, will not do a lot ofacademics this first year,
right, because most of the time,they just, they just sit with
their mouth open, they just lookaround the room. Right? And, and
you're hoping that they're goingto be writing or doing their
math and, and they're learning,but they're learning about this

(01:02:06):
the social dynamic, and they'relearning about, you know, who's
friends with whom, and who isthe helper, and who is a leader.
And, you know, and they're justkind of piecing everything
together in their heads. And sonot much academic learning is
happening that that first yearor that first semester, but
little by little, they kind ofsettle into the routine, and
they find their role. Right. Andthat's, that's, I think he in in

(01:02:28):
the elementary years, whetherthey're living, you know, living
and learning at home, or whetherthey're learning in a classroom
is that they start identifyingwhat they're good at, and what
they're not really strong at,and who is, right, and so and so
it's a lot of this developmentof the self in the context of a

(01:02:48):
larger group. And at home, itcan be you know, in the context
of the family, like Who am I,you know, with my siblings, what
am I good at? What am I helpful,you know, with and in, in their
social group, because justbecause you homeschool doesn't
mean that you, you know, areisolated in your home. And so

(01:03:09):
you can very much recreate asocial environment, in a
homeschool setting. But, youknow, whether you're
homeschooling whether your childis in school, understanding that
that is such a big part of theirlearning, and, you know, and
kind of moving past ourpreconceived notion that, you
know, you go to school to learnnot to socialize, which is, you

(01:03:32):
know, such a thing that was toldto us, like, you know, be quiet
and focused on what the teacheris saying. And understanding
that, yes, your child goes toschool to learn math and writing
and all that, but your childalso goes to school or goes to a
social group that you'rehomeschooling to, to develop
these social skills that are sopowerful, and that not only

(01:03:54):
prepare them, you know, to bepart of a society, but help them
understand who they are. Rightand, and, in one kind of last
caveat is that a lot of six yearolds go through a period of
turmoil, because their eyes aresuddenly open to a to a
realization that they are notthe best at everything, right,

(01:04:16):
you know, the four year old isso confident that you know, they
will nothing stand in their way.
And all of a sudden, they're sixand they realize that other
people are faster or, you know,better at a certain thing than
they are and there's this crisisthat happens. And so, we have to
be in a really nurture themthrough this, this crisis, and
they will emerge on the otherside, feeling a sense of

(01:04:36):
belonging to a group and a senseof identity, where they
understand who they are and howthey can contribute to this
group, so you know, honoringthat process. And, um, if if you
are a parent and you'rehomeschooling and you are kind
of an introvert and you enjoyjust being at home Keep in mind

(01:04:58):
that part of your job iscreating a social group for your
child. And just because youdon't maybe don't like to be
with other people or like to bein big groups, doesn't mean that
your child doesn't need it. Sopart of the work of the prepared
adult at home is to create theseopportunities for your child to
do their work of socializing.

(01:05:20):
Because it's work. It's not justplay for them.
Yeah. And I think also a lot ofchildren, even if they're at a
Montessori schools still have tomeet certain curriculum
requirements. So I know that insome classrooms, there's even
like, this is the folder ofthings that we need to do
because of the curriculum. Sothey're also learning, we're not
allowed to do everything, thereare some things that we have to
do. And I think that would bereassuring to some parents,

(01:05:42):
because we get this idea ofwell, like, if you're
homeschooling and they're justfollowing their interest,
they're never going to learnthat they have to do certain
things. Is that something thatcomes up a lot in questions from
parents?
Oh, so much. That is, that isthe trickiest balance is how to,
I help children understand thatthere are certain societal
expectations that you know,things that every child has to

(01:06:02):
learn, but to guide them therewithout breaking their spirit,
which is what happens in a lotof traditional schools, right?
It's like you do it, because Isay so. And, and I test you, and
that's the end of it. And so howdo you guide them? How do you
help them understand that it'sin their best interest, to
develop the skills that willhelp them to, you know, learn
what they want to learn, andthat will help them express

(01:06:24):
themselves, and help them tounderstand the world around
them, you know, but but do it ina way that is respectful to
their development, but it getsthe job done. Right. And, and
so, and it is a delicate paththat guides walk, you know, a
six year old isn't dropped intoyour classroom, and all of a
sudden, you say, Okay, I needyou to do reading, writing and

(01:06:47):
math every single day of theweek. It doesn't happen that
way. It's it's, it's gentle, andit's gradual, and the same at
home. Right? It's, it's, it'sfirst, creating a connection
between the adult and the childa sense of trust, and a sense
that the adult wants the bestfor the child. And once the
child understands that, and astrong bond, a strong

(01:07:10):
relationship is forged. And thenit becomes easier because the
child knows that the adult isworking in their best interest.
And so whether it's a school ora home, and yes, you know, it's
that balance and that awarenessthat we have to hold those
boundaries. Because we know thechild is capable, and because we

(01:07:33):
know that they need it. Right,they need us to hold those
boundaries, they need us to helpthem move outside of their
comfort zone. And andand help them see that they can
do really hard thing. Hmm. Yeah,I mean, Jeanne-Marie, like if
you have children, that you comeacross the the kind of reluctant
learners like that you kind ofsee that they're not doing
things that Yeah, what do youlike? How do you help parents

(01:07:56):
when they're concerned thattheir child's not picking up
reading because, you know, youwould have worked in that age
group where they're starting tolearn to read and they're not
reading? And, yeah, is there away to engage to be an amazing
teacher, I guess, at some point,and what are some tips, I mean,
to me, it comes it comes down toto reassuring parents, that
they, they will get there, youknow, that each child is

(01:08:19):
different as individual hasdifferent gifts. And, you know,
yes, there's one child thatmight read when they're four
years old, and there's one thatmight not read until they're
seven. And there's no or evenlater that it's really about you
continuing to have faith in yourchild to trusting that the that

(01:08:39):
they are learning that there isa process to continue, you know,
engaging them in what they areinterested in, so that if you
know they're interested in, inreally, the insects that are
around well, keep reading aboutinsects, keep keep exploring
that because until you havesatisfied that, that that need

(01:09:03):
and, and help them kind ofmaster that knowledge that they
want, you know, they will, itwill move on to something else.
And then then let's count howmany Beatles there are there
you're introducing mathematicsin a different way. You know,
there was I remember in myclassroom, there was a child who
was you know, the parent wasconcerned that they weren't

(01:09:26):
doing that much mathematics butbecause they were reading so
much so what did I do I just didword problems where we were
where we read stories wherethere was something mathematical
to to figure out so that's theway that parents can just
always, you know, bring new newconcepts in through the back

(01:09:48):
door like not in thistraditional you know, workbooks
and we have to get through thislike, you know, just like color
says it's like, we have to useour own imagination and their
imagination, but mostImportantly, I think, for
parents is to just trust andreally have faith in in you are
meant to be the parent of yourchild, and you know your child

(01:10:10):
better than anybody else andjust just really have faith in
your child and trust that theyare learning each and every day.
One of the things I love aboutMontessori, in the three to six
age group is when they ask themto show an interest in reading.
And so not forcing them to readearly or anything, but what
kinds of things could you do athome, you know, like introducing

(01:10:31):
some sounds and things likethat, for parents who are
wanting to support their childon that, you know, beginning
interest in, in learning toread.
So definitely the whole, youknow, this whole notion of of
sounds like as soon as the childstarts showing interest in the
symbols of the written language,is really being mindful that it

(01:10:53):
is about sounds, it is not aboutthe name of letters, but it is
about sounds like Oh, that lookscool, that looks like a car that
looks like a you know, reallyengaging them in that. But then
also, you know, these beautifullittle I spy games of you know,
I spy something that starts witha car or starts with an L is is

(01:11:13):
beautiful. And then, you know,the whole, this whole notion in
Montessori that That, to me wasa big aha, in my training, is
this whole idea that we writebefore we read, right? Because
this idea that it comes fromwithin, it's really our, our
expression that we want toshare. And there is this

(01:11:37):
beautiful presentation at onepoint where we actually write
some very phonetic words on alittle piece of paper, and we
fold it up and give it to thechild like a little secret. And
when they open it, and theysound it out the look on their
face of like, I just read that,like, you know, it's just, it's

(01:11:59):
just fabulous to see that thattransformation. So just
awareness of the writtenlanguage. To me, it's it's a lot
about reading about singingabout, you know, sharing poetry,
about conversations, just thethe beauty of language and, and

(01:12:20):
I will also add to do it in allyour languages. I work with a
lot of multi lingual families.
And I really encourage that youshare your native language, your
mother tongue as much as you canto your child.
Yeah, thank you. And that was atiny introduction to the
language part of the Montessoriclassroom and feel I'd love to

(01:12:42):
talk about the mathematicsbecause you touched on geometry.
And it's so beautiful to seesome of the work and how
concrete it is. And you buildingon these concrete materials. So
as you were talking about thenmoving to abstraction, but is
there one part of themathematics curriculum that you
could explain to us to givepeople an idea of how rich the
materials are to make it such aconcrete process for

(01:13:03):
the child? Oh, gosh, um, yeah, Imean, I think every, every
sequence is, is so lovely inthat it really isolates, um, you
know, a particular step. And, tome, one of the one of the
sections that I really love isthe squaring, which I remember

(01:13:26):
in our, in our training, when wefirst saw the actual square, you
know, you Montessori has thebeads. And when you put them
together, you know, you putfive, you know, five, five bars,
it actually makes a physicalsquare. And that was that, oh,
that's what that little two ontop of a five actually
represents. I'm and and sohaving that impression that's

(01:13:49):
such a young age is somethingthat the children are going to
take with them right theirentire lives. And that so then
moving from that to the cube,for example. And then seeing
what that little three means andbeing able to I still remember
having, you know, giving apresentation. And in the middle
of the presentation, my firstyear of elementary teaching and

(01:14:11):
the middle of the presentationof teaching, you know that the
little two on top of the numbermeans square and the little
three on top of number meanscube. And the child asked me,
Well, why did they choose thenumber two? And I didn't know
the answer. And I looked down atthe material. And I realized it
was because the bar that thesquare grew in two dimensions,

(01:14:33):
right? And so that two was wasyou know, it grew the base and
it grew that height. So it grewin two dimensions. And so that's
what that two men so when Ilooked at the cube, and I was
like, Oh, now I understand whatthe three means that it's
growing in three dimensions itwas and you know, when I was
3536, something like that, andit never dawned on me. And so

(01:14:54):
then you take that and you youknow, you take the square and
then you grow by No meals. Andso you you you grow, for
example, the square of five plusthree, and what it looks like,
on, you know, physically withthe beads. And then you
translate it into numbers. Andthen you go from there to the
algebraic expression. And so yousay, Okay, well, you know, this

(01:15:18):
side, instead of calling itthree, we're going to call it a
and this side, we're going tocall it B and this one, C, and
then we're going to, you know,come up with a formula using
those letters. And because it'sbeen such a gradual hands on,
isolated process, where you'renot giving the child more than

(01:15:38):
he can grasp at any one time,and you're always revisiting
what they just learned, so thatit stays in their mind, and so
that it becomes part of this newthing they're learning. When
they get to this algebraicformula at the age of eight or
nine, they get it, theyunderstand what it means it's,
it's nothing overwhelming tothem, because it's just letters

(01:16:01):
that are just taking the placeof numbers. And so you have, you
know, nine and 10 year oldsmanipulating these amazing
formulas, like their game,because they can see it in their
minds. And so that progressionto me, it just just floors me,
and it's something that I wouldpresent to parents every year,
when they would come tounderstand what their children
would be doing in theelementary, and their jaws just

(01:16:24):
dropped. Because, you know, it'sthings that they were never,
never able to understand thingsthat they were just told, okay,
well just memorize it, justmemorize the fact that a square
plus b square, this is how youwrite it out and, and go with
it. And I, you know, nobody toldthem what it represented. And
and so this gift that Montessorimath gives right to be able to

(01:16:46):
see in your mind and understandthe why the why of these
letters, the why of thesenumbers, and the why of these
combinations. Is is just one ofthe biggest gifts that you can
give your children.
And if I can add to that thelike the binomial and trinomial
cube that Omar is talking about,we have it on the shelf for the

(01:17:08):
primary children. So for it forthe you know, for the three and
a half four year old who ismanipulating it just as a
sensorial material, there is nothere is no explanation. It is
just an exploration of, ofdifferent colors in it and it's
a three dimensional puzzle. Andand to me that is the genius of

(01:17:29):
Montessori is this this thiswork from from, you know, giving
them what they need at a certainage, which is just sensorial
exploration, to then you know,when they go into the elementary
years where they've, they'vealready manipulated this so it's
familiar. It's already you know,it's already an image in their

(01:17:51):
mind, and now you're giving themeven more information on it.
It's just gorgeous, genius.
Genius. Now, summary. Somethingthat we don't get to talk about
very often is your love ofbabies and the doula work that
you've been doing lately. Canyou share some of the delightful
work you've been doing?
Well, because I am a newly emptynester. And I don't have anybody

(01:18:17):
scheduled to mine but my own. Idecided to do something that has
been in the back of my mind fora long time. And that is to
volunteer as a doula. We havethis beautiful program here in
San Diego that's been around forI think about 25 years. It's
called hearts and hands,volunteer doula service and we

(01:18:39):
work with two hospitals. Andbasically it is when the
birthing mother comes thehospital offers them the service
of you know, having a doula bytheir side. And we get called in
and, and it has been justbeautiful work. And I think, you

(01:18:59):
know, a lot of it comes from Imean, I've always been, you
know, just fascinated withbabies, I think I have a real
connection with them. For somereason, I just start talking to
them. In my native language,French for some reason, and, and
during my Montessori training,actually Birth to Three. We are

(01:19:21):
asked to observe a birth if wecan, and I had actually a dear
friend of mine, invited me intoher home in to help care for her
older child who was I think shewas barely two at the time while
she was giving birth, and it wasjust an extraordinary

(01:19:42):
experience. And then later PLRinvited me into her home for her
birth. So I've been kind of adoula friend. And so I decided
to go a little further and dothis training with a volunteer.
And it's to me it's just youknow, it is such an
extraordinary moment. meant in,in life in, in, in a woman's

(01:20:03):
life in in the birth. And weknow that the birth environment,
you know is that firstenvironment that the child will
experience after prenatal life.
So if I can do anything toempower the women giving birth,
if I can do anything to reallymake sure that this baby is is
welcomed, and they can trust theworld that they're being born

(01:20:25):
into, that's, you know, I do itthrough right now through this
volunteer service. You know,maybe I'll become a full, you
know, private doula one day, Iwould love to, I just think it
is, it is a moment that is so,so precious and so empowering
also for women. And I feel thatthere is a lot of work to be

(01:20:48):
done around birth and kind ofthe, you know, the the myths
that we are told that it has tobe hard and painful and
grueling. And all this, I'm notsaying it's easy, but it's
transformative. And I want toempower the birthing families to
really be the ones making thechoices that they're not in any

(01:21:13):
way sick or handicapped, oranything this is this is a
powerful, powerful moment inyour life, and I want it to
belong to you. So that's, that'swhy I do the work. I do.
Like all these podcastconversations, I could keep
talking with bothgoing to let you get back to
your families, but is thereanything Pilar that you want to

(01:21:34):
talk about that we something youdon't get to talk about often
that we didn't touch on yet? Um,well, just one thing came to
mind when you guys were talkingabout the reading and, and I
love how we're kind of, youknow, representing all the way
from babies through elementaryhere, because recently, I had a
friend who had a two year oldwho didn't want to toilet

(01:21:56):
independently, or it is thetoilet independently. And a
friend of mine who is very mucha proponent of elimination
communication, was giving her alot of advice, like really sound
wonderful Montessori alignedadvice about just, you know,
following her child and modelingand trusting etc. And what
struck me was that this samefriend, who was giving all this

(01:22:19):
advice, is really strugglingbecause her child is seven,
seven and a half, and not yetreading in a way that makes her
feel confident that he's goingto be able to and, and so it
really struck me how we need toto continue with the same
mentality of trusting modeling,preparing the environment, and

(01:22:43):
you know, whether it's for a sixmonth old or a 910 year old, I
think it doesn't go away. And sothat is the thread that we need
to carry. From the day we findthat we're pregnant, you know,
through the day our childrenleave our home and move on to to
adulthood. And so that was kindof the last little thing that

(01:23:07):
that struck me, especiallybecause we cover such a broad
range of ages here. Yeah. Oh,that's fantastic, as I love
that, because actually, eventhose who are struggling with
toileting could go back to thatmoment when the child walks,
when we're just supporting, youknow, and scaffolding the
environment and doing it, thenwe trust that the child would
walk, but and then the child whodoesn't walk well, then we go
back to but did they learn torollover? Yes. And so it is a

(01:23:29):
beautiful process that we get towitness and Jeanne-Marie for
you, is there anything that youwould also like to add that we
haven't been able to touch on?
No, I mean, just, you know, weread it read a rating to to, to
trust in yourself and to trustyour child, that, that it is,
you know, parenting iscollaborative work, and that we

(01:23:51):
were doing it together and I'mjust, you know, I strongly
believe that we are gifted thechildren that we need, and that,
you know, they have the parentsthat they need, and it's just
sometimes it's, you know, reallyletting go of the comparisons
and the shoulds and, and, andall of that. So just really

(01:24:12):
testing yourself and, and, andalso, I will add to remember to
take good care of yourself, forme. But the whole notion of
really asking yourself, youknow, what do I need right now?
Because we are As parents, weare so concerned with everybody
else that we can we need to takegood care of ourselves to show

(01:24:34):
up fully for our families. Yes,I'm researched, important
reminder, thank you so much. AndI know that everyone is going to
want to look you up. So I'll putJeanne-Marie's links if you want
to look for a parenting coachand to pilares amazing work in
the elementary helping all thehomeschoolers that all the ways
the places that I send everyone,so I'll just put your contact

(01:24:55):
details there. So again, thankyou both so much for being here
and hopefullyGet to hug and see each other
soon in person. Yes, thank you.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Bye, everyone.

(01:25:21):
So fun. Yes, I love the idea ofhelping our children to ask
great questions like when pillowwas talking about the Wonder
wall in their home. And I thinkthat's such an interesting way
to keep children curious andspark interesting research and
projects and also to raisecritical thinkers who questions
the status quo, right. And goingback to that idea of less is

(01:25:42):
more that genre you talkedabout, which can help our
children to focus better when wehave less things out, to sit on
the ground at our child's heightto see how the space looks, and
to still make the spaceinviting, which is a very nice
segue into our listener questiontoday. So today's question was
sent in anonymously and theyasked how should someone
decorate their Montessoriclassroom? I like minimalist,

(01:26:05):
but I wanted to make sure thatI'm not decorating too much. So
to answer that, I think I wouldgo back to Dr. Montessori, his
first classroom, which wascalled a casa de bambini. And so
this means House of children. SoI always think then, yeah, the
classroom is meant to feel likea home for children. And one of
the first things that peoplenotice when they arrive in my
classroom is that everything isvery low, so that the children

(01:26:28):
can reach everything forthemselves. We have low tables
and chairs, we have low shelves,that artworks low, and plants
are also at their height so thatthey can care for them too. So
this is already makingeverything accessible for our
children and making it liketheir house. And what else will
make it feel like a home I thinkhaving comfortable places to sit

(01:26:48):
like a cozy book corner, a placeby the window to do art, having
the beautiful artwork around theclassroom, which represents the
community and also might inspiresome self expression itself. And
we always love having plants inthe space. I feel like plants
always soften the space. Butthey also add natural color

(01:27:09):
without being overwhelming. Andso they naturally also provide
opportunity for the children tohave to care for them, watering
them or dusting their leaves ifthey've got big leaves that need
to be dusted from time to time.
A rug on the floor or a lampmight also make it feel cozy. I
put up some fairy lights onewinter, I like them so much that
they're up just all year roundnow. And in our book corner, I

(01:27:29):
cut out some pretty paper tomake a paper garland or what you
might call bunting. And sohomemade eminence like this can
really make it feel cozy andhomely. And the shelves
themselves have a lot ofbeautiful materials laid out in
order of difficulty inviting thechildren to explore. And I love
having ornaments and culturalelements around the classroom
that can provide beauty andspark interest. Do you remember

(01:27:51):
last week Prue was saying thatin her classroom in Nigeria, she
loves having objects displayedin the classroom, and the
children love to learn aboutthem and also tell and ask their
family about them. And in theelementary class, there are
often a lot of artifacts rotatedon the shelves to provide new
sparks of interest for them tostudy further. But because there
are already a lot of materialsdisplayed, you might notice if

(01:28:13):
you walk into a Montessoriclassroom that they're usually
not like a lot of walls coveredin children's paintings, and not
a rainbow of colored furnitureand walls. So we're trying to
find that balance between beingcozy and inviting a definitely
not sterile, and yet notoverstimulating either, which
for some children can be sensoryoverload. So the furniture on my
classroom and the walls aremostly white. But I do have one

(01:28:37):
wall in the classroom paintedlike a museum blue kind of
color, which provides a littlebit of color, but definitely not
overwhelming. And I also loveusing wood furniture having
natural materials as much aspossible too. So that adds to
keep it warm and cozy withoutbeing Yeah, sterile. So I think
the space is calm, it'sattractive. And I've even added

(01:28:57):
curtains to the windows to tomake it more homely too. And I
love when you walk into aMontessori classroom, they all
look unique and represent theculture of the families so we
can make sure that ourclassrooms are being culturally
responsive to. So obviously whatwe've been talking about
Montessori classrooms, the sameprinciples apply at home as

(01:29:18):
well. So obviously, not all ourfurniture will be close to the
ground. But it's lovely to havean area in each part of your
home where your child can feellike it's set up just for them,
and they feel really welcome andeverything's accessible to them.
And actually, one of the onlinecourses I have is a four week
self study course about settingup your home Montessori style.
For those of you that would liketo be walked through the home

(01:29:39):
room by room and step by step.
And I love seeing people'sspaces transformed by you know,
clearing away the clutter andmaking the spaces calm and
inviting. So I'll pop a link inthe show notes in case that's
helpful as well. So that's itfor today, folks, and next
Friday. I'll be back with thefinal episode of season two and

(01:30:00):
I'm super excited about ourguest. So you'll have to tune in
next week to see who it is. Anduntil then everyone keep well.
Thanks for joining me for theMontessori notebook podcast. The
podcast was edited by LukeDavies from Filmprov media, and
podcast art by Hiyoko Imai. Tofind out more about me and my

(01:30:21):
online courses visitthemontessorinotebook.com,
follow me on Instagram@themontessorinotebook, or pick
up a copy of my book TheMontessori Toddler or its new
prequel The Montessori Baby fromyour local bookstore, Amazon or
where books are sold. They'realso available as ebooks, audio
books, and have been translatedinto over 20 languages. I'll be

(01:30:41):
back in a week with moreMontessori inspiration. And in
the meantime, perhaps you'lljoin me in spreading some more
peace and positivity around theworld.

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S2 E11 Montessori at home whether you are homeschooling or not with Jeanne-Marie Paynel and Pilar Bewley

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