August 29, 2024 • 32 mins
Unlock the secrets to a seamless military-to-civilian career transition with insights from KP, the dynamic host of the Morning Formation podcast. Learn about his compelling journey from military service to civilian employment and the hard lessons he learned about the importance of strategic career planning. KP shares the pitfalls of relying solely on military accolades and advanced degrees, emphasizing the need for humility, thorough preparation, and the ability to translate military experience into civilian terms.
Struggling with imposter syndrome? You're not alone. In this episode, we tackle the pervasive challenge of self-doubt that many veterans face during their transition. KP and our team discuss the delicate balance between humility and self-advocacy in job searches. Discover strategies for recognizing your value, effectively communicating your military experiences, and the importance of rehearsing your narrative to resonate with civilian employers. We also critique the shortcomings of military transition programs like TAPS and highlight the necessity of a well-thought-out plan.
Finally, we stress the value of early and strategic preparation to ensure a successful transition from military to civilian life. Through personal anecdotes, KP underscores the stressors of having a fixed end date and the challenge of securing multiple job offers. We discuss how to set realistic expectations, align career goals, and be flexible with initial career choices to alleviate stress. Our goal is to motivate you to take your transition seriously and set yourself up for long-term career success. Join us for actionable advice and insights that can pave the way for a smooth and successful career transition.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today's episode is a collaboration between TMF
Podcast and ActNow Education'sMastermind Program.
I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi everyone.
It's Nicole from ActNowEducation and we are here
helping you prepare for yournext transition on the way to a
career within the civilian world.
One of the things that we'vebeen doing is preparing you
through a mastermind, taking youthrough several weeks of
preparation, getting yourmindset in order, understanding
(00:34):
your goals, getting your resume,your LinkedIn profile all of
these things necessary and we'reall going to talk about
preparation.
We're going to talk aboutdifferent topics.
There's only so much we can dowithin our mastermind and we're
all going to talk aboutpreparation.
We're going to talk aboutdifferent topics.
There's only so much we can dowithin our mastermind.
So we're having these extrarecorded sessions so that you
can gain more insights listeningto other people's stories,
(00:54):
hearing their strategies andreally, at the end of the day,
collecting bits and pieces ofinformation so that you can
create your own transition plansuccessfully.
Today, I have the absolutepleasure of chatting with KP,
who is the Morning Formationpodcast host, and this is extra
special because now, instead ofKP interviewing, I have the
(01:18):
honor of interviewing KP andlistening to his insights
valuable insights that he willshare specifically to
transitioning.
So we have a good session here,getting you some real talk,
real conversation on some ofthese very, very important
topics.
So welcome KP and, if you cando, a quick introduction of
(01:38):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Dr Don Raj, it is such an honor to be chatting
with you on this lovely Fridaynight.
Yeah, so I've been a boardmember with Act Now Education
for what?
About two years now?
I think More so than being thehost of the Morning Formation
podcast.
I think I'm much more, I guess,honored to be a part of this
(02:04):
circle of folks like Dr DonRajazin with ACNO Education and
everyone out there who'slistening or watching this right
now.
So I actually joined themilitary through the Army
National Guard.
I enlisted and then did fouryears there, then got
commissioned and went activeduty into the Army during a time
of war, ended up serving inOperation Iraqi Freedom in 2004,
(02:26):
2005,.
Walked away from thatdeployment with a bronze star.
Right after coming back fromdeployment, got my master's
degree, got out as an O-3captain and thought the world
was at my fingertips, Thoughtthat I was going to get all
types of opportunities thrown atmy feet and it was just going
(02:48):
to be an easy time.
And I learned the hard way.
And that's why we're here today, because I am one of those
statistical veterans that quitmy first job after the military.
I think it's what over 70% ofmilitary folks quit their first
job after serving, and so I wasone of those folks, and that's
why we're here today is I'm hereto share my story and underline
(03:10):
the importance of why you needto be prepared.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah.
So thanks for sharing that, kp,and one of the key things that
you would hear me teaching aboutall the time is strategically
planning your career.
I cannot say that over and over, right Understanding where you
want to go, where you are rightnow and fill in the gaps.
So, kp, how did you plan yourtransition?
Did you actually have a plan?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
No, I did not have a plan, I was just motivated.
So I, literally afterdeployment, somebody had
mentioned to me that when I wasgoing to be getting out I'd be
competing with some of theacademy graduates.
So Naval Academy West Point,and I was just a gritty green to
(03:59):
gold.
Smp Army ROTC commissionedofficer.
Smp Army ROTC commissionedofficer.
So, thinking that to myself, assoon as I got back from
deployment I immediately hit thebooks and I went to the
education center and I got mygraduate's degree.
I got my master's degree inorganizational leadership
through Central MichiganUniversity, right there on
(04:19):
Schofield Barracks in Hawaii.
So I spent a lot of my Go FieldBarracks in Hawaii.
So I spent a lot of my weekendssitting in a classroom instead
of surfing.
And my plan was I was kind ofsort of running fast in a
direction, but it wasn't in aand I guess in any kind of
(04:41):
pointed direction.
I didn't know what I was doing,I was just doing it.
So that was my plan was just toget educated.
And I guess I thought when Igot out, having all the
accolades that I had earned youknow, I was only 27 years old
and already had a master'sdegree, had combat experience,
Was a captain in the army.
(05:02):
I thought I had all thesethings, so I thought this is
easy, Like I've got a niceresume so I'm good to go.
But I found out getting outthat translating a lot of those
things that you do in themilitary can be very difficult
and learning how to speakcivilian when your main language
(05:22):
is military, professionally,can be really, really
challenging.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So let's break that apart, kp, because a lot of
times in my experience servicemembers think that, oh gosh,
yeah, because I had that combatexperience, because I was an
officer, because I stayed in for20 years, I am the bomb.
Really right, people would belapping me up but not
recognizing that everybody onthe outside truly understands
(05:50):
what all of those things mean.
So how do we get people toreally understand that?
You know, you got to get theresume, you got to get your
branding and you got to eathumble pie a bit.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Humble pie.
Yeah, let's underline that one.
I think that's really importantas well, because I wasn't
humble at all, not that I wasarrogant or cocky, I just
thought that having everythingthat I had earned in the
military was going to translate.
And let me give you a quickstory on how funny this was.
So, like my first job after themilitary, I worked for a large
(06:23):
company.
It was in operations.
I actually managed a departmentof union workers.
And I remember one day you knowus in the military, we know the
difference between an NCO and anofficer and we know the
difference between enlisted andcommissioned officers and
warrant officers.
We understand all that, we knowthe different positions.
And I remember one day I wasworking there as a supervisor
(06:46):
and I had an employee that wasdisciplined for something
they're showing up late orsleeping or something on the job
.
It was something wacky, but Iremember the comment that was
from another supervisor therethat had never been in the
military and he said well, whydon just, you know, be a drill
instructor and, and you know,smoke them or whatever?
(07:08):
And it was like a drillinstructor, like I wasn't a
drill instructor, I was acommissioned officer, and it was
just funny to me because itdidn't seem like they understood
the difference between you knowwhat they had watched on, you
know saving private ryan versuslike you know what real life was
and uh, it, that's.
That's the difference is likeyou've got people out there that
(07:29):
have literally the onlyconnection to the military is
what they've seen in the movies,so they don't know the
difference between an E5 and anO3.
And you'll run into that.
I think it's really importantfor folks out there to
understand that.
It's really important to openyour ears and open your mind and
(07:50):
to be open to listening tofolks when it comes to that time
to transition, because a lot ofthe things that you do for
example, like I went through theair assault course, the Army
air assault course, which isrigging and rappelling um two
week course, uh, and I had areally difficult time explaining
(08:15):
what that was to a civilianrecruiter and trying to add
value to how does this apply tothe position that you're seeking
to get Um.
So I think that that beinghumble and understanding that a
lot of what you do in themilitary may not translate over
and you may have to do someextra civilian certifications to
help draw that line from whatyou've done to where you want to
(08:36):
go so then, kp, how doessomebody really start
translating what they've doneinto simple, clear terms,
especially in an interview?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
what would you recommend other than yes, okay,
let me go get somecertifications, educations to
match what is needed in civilian, but without necessarily
negating everything that you do.
What would be yourrecommendation to make sure in
an interview, you're explainingthat appropriately?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Learning how to sell yourself is really important.
So when I went through a careerheadhunter that was helping
military officers and higherenlisted folks find jobs, one of
the coaches there sat acrossfrom me and he goes look, you've
got folks here that went toWest Point, that have like 4.0
(09:27):
GPAs played sports.
You've got people here that areway more impressive on paper
than you.
So you have to sell yourself.
And here's the thing You're nota person that was born with a
silver spoon in his mouth.
Everything that you've earned,you fought for, you're a
scrapper, you're a fighter.
So when you're sitting acrossfrom a recruiter, you need to
explain that that.
(09:48):
Look, I know that on paper Ididn't go to the Naval Academy,
but understand that I was amilitary brat, moved around
quite a bit, my grades weren'texactly where they were supposed
to be, but at the end of theday, I decided to serve my
country, joined at 18 years old,worked my way through college,
worked a part-time job, juststarted explaining this
(10:11):
character of person that wasgoing to get the job done, no
matter what, because mycompetition was the six or seven
other people that he was seeingthat day that had way more
impressive and sexier resumesthan me because they were, I
guess, positioned in a betterspot or maybe they made better
decisions at a younger age thanI did.
But at the end of the day, yougot to understand it doesn't
(10:32):
matter where you've been or whatyou've done.
It matters where you're goingto go and how hard you're going
to work.
It's all about the long termpersistence.
So, with that being said,selling yourself, You've got to
learn how to sit across from arecruiter and explain to them
why you're the best candidatethat they're going to see that
day.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And what do you think is the deficiency of people not
being able to sell themselves?
Is it because they're relyingon that veteran status mill
spouse that I often see thatpeople are really emphasizing
that they think for the mostpart, the recruiter is going to
understand them, so it's an easysell.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I think that at the end of the day, you got to look
at your competition.
So you're not just competingwith folks that are getting out
of the military.
No, you're competing with folksthat went to regular colleges
and were in certain fraternitiesand certain sororities and were
able to network.
So they already know John andCindy, because they're the
(11:30):
recruiters that we're talkingtoday, because they were in the
same fraternity that I was in orsame sorority that they were in
.
So that's the thing, too, yougot to understand is like, even
when I went to my first job,like the folks that I was
competing with never served inthe military.
So it's the thing, too, you gotto understand is like, even
when I went to my first job,like the folks that I was
competing with never served inthe military.
So it's not just about thissmall pool of folks getting out.
You're competing with the restof the world.
(11:51):
Now your military service islike oh, that was cool
conversation that will lastabout five minutes After that,
when they start getting into thenuts and bolts of like, what
can you give me if I put you inthis position is real talk, and
you need to be able to speak thelanguage.
(12:12):
I think one of the biggestthings is a lot of us in the
military have imposter syndrome.
You don't realize your overallvalue.
A lot of times in the militarywe kind of talk ourselves down
from being the heroes that wereally are.
You know, especially if you'vedeployed, if you've gone TDY or
if you spent time away from yourfamily On base.
(12:35):
Everyone else has done the samething.
But if you, once you leave themilitary, you're going to find
out that really quickly.
If you're sitting around anycampfire in your neighborhood,
you're probably the only personthat served in the military and
so you're no longer in acommunity of folks that have the
same type of experiences.
(12:56):
Now you're going to be whenyou're in the civilian world.
You're going to be sittingaround folks that have no idea
what your life was like.
So you know it could beimposter syndrome that some
folks suffer from.
It's not just one thing youknow when they're getting out.
Sometimes it's multiple things,or it's either imposter
syndrome or it's not knowing howto sell yourself, or sometimes
(13:17):
it's thinking that, like myself,thinking that, oh well, this is
going to be a piece of cake.
I got this.
I don't need any help.
I actually, when I left the army, they had a program on base
called TAPS, and TAPS was atransition program.
And I remember one of mysoldiers came up to me and
showed me a resume thatsupposedly TAPS had reviewed and
(13:39):
it looked terrible.
It looked horrible and it wasto the point where, like I'm not
going there for anything, so Ipurposely went there when I out
processed.
I went there the last day justto go in there and get their
signature.
And I wasn't supposed to dothat.
But with you know, I was justlike whatever, like I'm leaving
tomorrow, so you guys need tosign this right now.
They're like well, we haven'treviewed your resume, I don't
(14:00):
need you to just sign my stuffso I can get out of here.
And so they didn't look at anyof my stuff.
I didn't get their help.
I didn't want their help.
So that was my own.
That was my own fault that Idid that.
I should have at least beenopen and willing to have them
take a look at my materials andsee what opportunities they
could have offered me.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
But I think, too, a lot of times we don't know what
we don't know.
If I look at my transition to Iwent to TAPS.
I had no clue what was neededfor this other side of the
journey.
I was told to go to TAPS, butreally what was being shared?
I didn't see the relevance tome.
I didn't know how to apply it,so I just went through the
motions, yes, got the check mark, but then when I was done, then
(14:42):
I was like lost, completelylost.
A needle in a haystack here andhaving to figure my way out.
And this is one of the keythings that we're really trying
to support in the mastermind ismaking sure that you're not just
doing things ad lib.
You're having a good strategicplan.
You're understanding the otherside of the world.
You're understanding what isneeded in these jobs, how to
(15:05):
excel in it, how to beat thecompetition, how to sell
yourself and a lot of it.
As you were saying too, kp isthat for the most part in the
military, you knew when you weregoing to make rank.
You knew what was needed.
Somebody is telling you yourtime in service, so you had all
of these things alreadypre-planned for you, right?
There was no, necessarilythinking of myself.
(15:26):
How am I growing other thanwhat service I'm providing?
So that's why I think you knowcoming back to what you're
saying is that it's so criticalthat you're learning your
preparation is a key word thatyou're saying.
But one thing I want to comeback to there is earlier on we
said we need to eat humble pie.
Your rank, what you did, badassor not is not necessarily going
(15:47):
to get you extra points.
We get veteran status at fivepoint, disability, etc.
But on one hand we say, eathumble pie because that really
doesn't matter so much, theweight of it isn't incredible in
the civilian space.
But then on the other hand, wesay talk yourself up, don't be
humble in those interviews.
(16:08):
Talk about what you've done sothat you can sell yourself.
So how do we make that balancebetween eating humble pie and
not being so humble?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So I kind of know myself.
And it's interesting becauseany type of high pressure
training that I've ever beenthrough, I've always I ask
myself two things so where am Iand what am I doing?
So if I am a student in acourse at the time, no matter
what rank I am, I'm at a courseright now and I'm a student
(16:42):
right.
So it's the same thing, likewhere am I right now?
So I'm a transitioning veteranand I'm at a, I'm at a
recruiting event.
Understanding that, I thinkthat overall it takes the
pressure away sometimes when youhave a little bit of humbleness
about yourself.
(17:02):
I know myself that if I go inrehearsed, I think that's the
big key is I'm not saying thatyou need to talk yourself up,
you just need to understand howto sell yourself.
There's a big difference inthat, like there's a difference
between cockiness andunderstanding your true value,
(17:23):
and I think it's reallyimportant for you to rehearse.
Rehearse in a way that you canexplain to someone that's never
been in the military before,like you need to take the box of
blocks and dump them out on theground, take off your shoes,
sit crisscross applesauce and,like, play the blocks with
people that have never been inthe military.
(17:44):
They don't know the lingo.
They don't know what MOS is.
They don't know what any of.
They don't know what branchesare None of it.
You have to rehearse to whereyou understand how to sell
yourself, but at the same time,when you're in there, you have
to in order to bring thosestress levels down a little bit.
You got to look at thatrecruiter as if oh well, this is
just a conversation today, andI think that's the difference.
(18:05):
Talk yourself up to your truevalue.
Rehearsed wise.
But when you're having thatconversation with a recruiter,
just remind yourself this isjust a conversation, because
it's just as much of aninterview for you as much as it
is for you interviewing them.
Because this may not be the jobfor me, I may think I want it,
(18:26):
but if this recruiter comes offas like someone I couldn't
really gel with, or this companyseems like the culture's off,
then maybe you don't want to bethere.
So think of it that way too.
It's a two-way street, likewe're communicating, we're
conversating to see if thiswould truly be a good fit, not
just for you but for me too.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I agree, and I think at the end of the day, maybe if
I were to define it that humblepie is that level of expectation
.
Don't expect that you would geta job because you got rank or
you got time in service, right,you got to go out there and
prepare.
You got to make sure that yourresume is, you know, being able
to translate into the civilianworld, somebody read it and
(19:05):
there's not a bunch of acronymsand all of these things that
they don't understand.
So there is that level ofexpectation and then the level
of preparation and being able tosell yourself, as you said.
But I think to one area that Isee people struggle with is just
not believing in themselves,the mindset.
And this is where we start themastermind with getting into
(19:29):
that mindset.
You got to believe in yourskills, you got to acknowledge
where your weaknesses are andthen speak to how you're going
to address those.
So, kp, I mean for me, I havegone through my own development
over the years and definitelygot more confident.
I can say that I have beenconsistently suffering with
(19:51):
imposter syndrome, but I do havemy bouts of it and I know how
to control it.
But I also have thecheerleaders around me to help
support.
So what recommendations do youhave to make sure that people do
feel comfortable in thatinterview, selling themselves
and making sure that they standout from the crowd confidently?
(20:11):
Too often I see people kind oflike in the background you have,
you know, half a camera and, tobe honest, it is like you're
not going to get the job.
You have to lean into thediscomfort, you have to believe
in yourself, but I can say thatas much as I want to somebody.
But how do you get them toreally break through the
(20:32):
barriers of imposter syndromeand being able to show up in
those interviews?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I mean, like I mentioned earlier, rehearsals
are huge.
I know that for me when it cameto podcasting, just to become a
better speaker.
Chris McPhee had mentioned thathe joined Toastmasters and that
was very helpful, becauseToastmasters is a speaking
engagement group.
There is an annual fee to joinit.
(21:00):
But I think that communicationand being able to speak is a
huge part of leadership, andbeing able to explain yourself
clearly and being able to speakprofessionally is really
important as well.
So things like that can helpyou as far as presentation goes,
but nothing beats just puttingyourself behind the camera,
(21:23):
hitting record.
If it's a virtual interview,then practice with your spouse.
Practice with friends, thenpractice with your spouse.
Practice with friends If you'rein the military.
Ask your leadership to help youout as well.
As far as reviewing andrehearsing, it's crazy because
even as a instructor, as a youknow, as an instructor, with
(21:46):
with my, with my employer,there's many times where I'll
stand in an empty classroom andI'll just stand there and talk
and just learn how to speak andhow to explain things, and it
sounds crazy, but sometimesthat's what you need to do, even
just to learn how to sellyourself.
I think, um, that's just thethings those are just the things
that I've done over time isjust rehearse, rehearse,
rehearse until I'm comfortablewith it and understanding a
(22:09):
certain template, uh, to utilizewhen you're answering questions
.
So one thing that I've used inthe past to be confident about
fully answering a question is Ihave utilized the STAR technique
, which is the Situation Task,actions and Results.
Or you can shorten it to whereit's Situation, actions and
(22:32):
Results actions and results oryou can shorten it to where it's
situation, actions and results,and so that'd be a great thing
for you to Google or look uponline is the STAR method, and
it's great because it literallyin your mind when you're
answering a question.
It starts from beginning to end.
It's like writing a story.
So it starts out with like thesituation was I was an army
captain, this happened, theactions I took were A, b and C,
(22:59):
and then the results were Isaved the world from exploding.
And doing that every singletime you answer those questions
I think gives you confidencebecause it keeps you sort of
compartmentalized with beginning, middle and end.
So things like that practicingand having those templates in
your mind, I think is a greatway to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
So, kp, one of the key things you keep coming back
to is that preparation right.
We just can't take it forlightly because we were in the
military.
We're going to get the job, butwe know preparation takes work.
This is hard.
Nobody wants to do this stuffright.
I don't want to pull out myphone and practice, but how do
you really emphasize the need toprepare?
(23:45):
There is a runway.
It can take six months, it cantake a, depending on where you
want to go on the gaps that youhave to fill in.
But what would be yourrecommendation to making sure
that people take this seriously?
Here in the Mastermind we got agroup of people going through
the program, but not everybodyis going to want to put in the
(24:08):
work.
Life gets in the way.
So how do you make sure thatpeople understand the
consequences of not beingprepared?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think, understanding the entire
battlefield of what you'redealing with, the long view of
what you're dealing with.
So, for example, right here, myhandy dandy dry erase board.
It's not just for looks, it'sactually back here for a purpose
.
So what I have on here is Iwrote ideal salary and then I
(24:41):
have ideal location, idealcareer right, those are the
three components, Like whenwe're looking for a job, to get
those three things to actuallyintersect.
On this, I guess journey thatwe're on to get those three
things to intersect is verydifficult to do to get those
three things to actuallyintersect.
On this, I guess journey thatwe're on to get those three
things to intersect is verydifficult to do To get those
things, all three of thosethings, to intersect at the same
time.
The only way that you are ableto really get that closer to one
(25:03):
another is if you do prepareAll right.
So, for example, I just drewthis down here this is you've
got your salary, locationintersecting right here, but
then you've got your idealcareer way over here.
So something has to sacrifice.
It's hard to get all three tointersect at the same time
because in the military when youget out, they give you a
(25:26):
retirement date.
All right, they give you an ETSdate and after that ETS date
you are unemployed, and sothat's the challenge.
It's not like you can put inyour two weeks to go hey, I've
got another job lined up Afterthat date.
You're either employed oryou're unemployed.
So that can be a real challengein itself.
It can be really stressful.
(25:47):
It can be a lot of thatpressure and a lot of that
stress by simply having optionsputting yourself out there.
The more offers you get, thebetter off you're going to be.
(26:09):
And I think understanding, likeI'm a very visual person, so
when I was getting out I wasthinking about those lines and
like, how do I get these linesof like?
location, ideal salary and idealjob to intersect on the 15th of
August when I get out.
How do I do that?
That's not.
There's no two weeks.
How do I get that all throughthose lines to intersect on the
15th?
And at the end of the day I do.
(26:29):
I wasn't able to get all threeto intersect.
I was able to get salary andlocation and that was it, but
not ideal job.
So yeah, that's kind ofimportant, I think, for folks
out there to motivate to startearly.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, and that's the key thing.
And if I had to do it again,just really understanding the
reasons behind planning, Ireally had no clue.
I was a lost lamb figuring itout and I often ask myself had I
had a good transition plan,where would I be compared to
where I'm at now?
I don't negate my success inany way, but how many learning
(27:10):
lessons would I have avoided orpitfalls in the road?
So that's why we're all herereally emphasizing again this is
important Set yourself up forsuccess.
Don't just jump in the car anddrive anywhere.
You understand what yourdestination looks like and then
being able to fill in the gap,kp.
One last question I'm going toask you here is oftentimes I
(27:34):
feel people are set on aspecific destination, that plan,
the three lines intersectingthey must be perfect and I often
feel it holds them back fromaccepting a job.
Then it amplifies the stress.
You know my finances, all ofthese things.
So, thinking about yourself andyou talked about that first job
, leaving the first job what ismaybe your number one piece of
(27:57):
advice?
That, do we need to get itperfect?
Do we need to have all theanswers for that very first job?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
So that's actually a really, really great question.
Nicole, you're an excellentinterviewer, by the way.
I just want to say I envy you.
Even after podcasting for theselast couple of years.
You're awesome.
I really think that you have toset your expectations out.
I'm young, I've got a graduatedegree, I've got combat
(28:25):
experience.
You know I'm an O3, I'm acaptain, I've got a Bronze Star
in Iraq.
I've done all these greatthings right.
But my expectations were waytoo high.
(28:45):
Like I thought that I was goingto be offered so many jobs and I
think I had four at thebeginning of of when I started
transitioning, which I startedtransitioning maybe eight months
from my, from my actual like uh, getting out of the military,
and so I had four initially andthen, when it was all said and
done, I had one, one offer andit was.
(29:06):
It was so scary to think likeon the 15th of August, think
like on the 15th of August I wasgoing to be unemployed.
So you know it was either takethat job or go jobless.
So how do you go from being anarmy captain to like no job?
Like that, just to me, Icouldn't even fathom.
I was like I got to take thisjob.
I guess I uh that overall umthat when it, when it comes time
(29:36):
to to transition, set yourexpectations to understand that,
like this may not be the knowall be all, this may not be my
forever home, this may be like aa three year, four year stint
for me, maybe one year, whoknows but you got to take a
swing in order to hit the balland so, at the end of the day,
(29:57):
you know, be prepared to getthere, learn the culture, learn
who you're working with.
You know always have yournetwork out there, because I was
, even after I was there, I,after about a year of being at
my first job, even after I wasthere, after about a year of
being at my first job, I got acall one day and I got a job
(30:19):
offer for something I hadapplied for two years prior and
it was a great opportunity forme working in the federal
government.
And here I am, like 16 yearslater I've been working for the
federal government.
So, with that being said, I meanI kept my mind open, kept my
options open.
I was planning on goingsomewhere, taking another leap,
(30:44):
but setting your expectationsand keeping an open mind and
don't be too hard on yourself,like, at the end of the day,
those of us that are in themilitary, we're rough and tough
and resilient.
You know we're we.
You know pick ourselves up,brush ourselves off.
We keep going, and that's whatseparates us from everyone else.
So, yeah, I think that's.
(31:06):
I think that's it basically isjust, you know, set your
expectations and don't be toohard on yourself.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, and I think too , adding to that, just even
comparison right Comparison is athief of joy.
We're all running our own racemy capabilities compared to
yours, my journey.
It may take me six months toland that job compared to you.
So there are so many varyingfactors there, but at the end of
the day, the key word here ispreparation, setting your
(31:32):
expectations, understandingwhere you're going, filling in
those gaps.
But not everything is going tocome on a silver platter because
you have veteran or militaryaffiliated.
In some way.
You got to put the work in, andthat's often the hard part,
because there's so much work tobe put in, and this is why we
stress all the time.
You know have a runway fortransition my opinion two years,
(31:56):
but it's okay If you're justgetting started.
You got two weeks in front ofyou.
Have a plan and this is whywe're here at Acnell Mastermind.
All right, everybody.
This is it for today's session.
I'm so grateful for you, kp.
It is awesome to be on thisside.
Thanks for telling me I did agood job.
I am here shaking in my boots,but thank you so much for this
(32:19):
and we will see you guys onSaturday.
Take care everyone.
Today's episode is a collaboration between TMF
Podcast and ActNow Education'sMastermind Program.
I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi everyone.
It's Nicole from ActNowEducation and we are here
helping you prepare for yournext transition on the way to a
career within the civilian world.
One of the things that we'vebeen doing is preparing you
through a mastermind, taking youthrough several weeks of
preparation, getting yourmindset in order, understanding
(00:34):
your goals, getting your resume,your LinkedIn profile all of
these things necessary and we'reall going to talk about
preparation.
We're going to talk aboutdifferent topics.
There's only so much we can dowithin our mastermind and we're
all going to talk aboutpreparation.
We're going to talk aboutdifferent topics.
There's only so much we can dowithin our mastermind.
So we're having these extrarecorded sessions so that you
can gain more insights listeningto other people's stories,
(00:54):
hearing their strategies andreally, at the end of the day,
collecting bits and pieces ofinformation so that you can
create your own transition plansuccessfully.
Today, I have the absolutepleasure of chatting with KP,
who is the Morning Formationpodcast host, and this is extra
special because now, instead ofKP interviewing, I have the
(01:18):
honor of interviewing KP andlistening to his insights
valuable insights that he willshare specifically to
transitioning.
So we have a good session here,getting you some real talk,
real conversation on some ofthese very, very important
topics.
So welcome KP and, if you cando, a quick introduction of
(01:38):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Dr Don Raj, it is such an honor to be chatting
with you on this lovely Fridaynight.
Yeah, so I've been a boardmember with Act Now Education
for what?
About two years now?
I think More so than being thehost of the Morning Formation
podcast.
I think I'm much more, I guess,honored to be a part of this
(02:04):
circle of folks like Dr DonRajazin with ACNO Education and
everyone out there who'slistening or watching this right
now.
So I actually joined themilitary through the Army
National Guard.
I enlisted and then did fouryears there, then got
commissioned and went activeduty into the Army during a time
of war, ended up serving inOperation Iraqi Freedom in 2004,
(02:26):
2005,.
Walked away from thatdeployment with a bronze star.
Right after coming back fromdeployment, got my master's
degree, got out as an O-3captain and thought the world
was at my fingertips, Thoughtthat I was going to get all
types of opportunities thrown atmy feet and it was just going
(02:48):
to be an easy time.
And I learned the hard way.
And that's why we're here today, because I am one of those
statistical veterans that quitmy first job after the military.
I think it's what over 70% ofmilitary folks quit their first
job after serving, and so I wasone of those folks, and that's
why we're here today is I'm hereto share my story and underline
(03:10):
the importance of why you needto be prepared.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah.
So thanks for sharing that, kp,and one of the key things that
you would hear me teaching aboutall the time is strategically
planning your career.
I cannot say that over and over, right Understanding where you
want to go, where you are rightnow and fill in the gaps.
So, kp, how did you plan yourtransition?
Did you actually have a plan?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
No, I did not have a plan, I was just motivated.
So I, literally afterdeployment, somebody had
mentioned to me that when I wasgoing to be getting out I'd be
competing with some of theacademy graduates.
So Naval Academy West Point,and I was just a gritty green to
(03:59):
gold.
Smp Army ROTC commissionedofficer.
Smp Army ROTC commissionedofficer.
So, thinking that to myself, assoon as I got back from
deployment I immediately hit thebooks and I went to the
education center and I got mygraduate's degree.
I got my master's degree inorganizational leadership
through Central MichiganUniversity, right there on
(04:19):
Schofield Barracks in Hawaii.
So I spent a lot of my Go FieldBarracks in Hawaii.
So I spent a lot of my weekendssitting in a classroom instead
of surfing.
And my plan was I was kind ofsort of running fast in a
direction, but it wasn't in aand I guess in any kind of
(04:41):
pointed direction.
I didn't know what I was doing,I was just doing it.
So that was my plan was just toget educated.
And I guess I thought when Igot out, having all the
accolades that I had earned youknow, I was only 27 years old
and already had a master'sdegree, had combat experience,
Was a captain in the army.
(05:02):
I thought I had all thesethings, so I thought this is
easy, Like I've got a niceresume so I'm good to go.
But I found out getting outthat translating a lot of those
things that you do in themilitary can be very difficult
and learning how to speakcivilian when your main language
(05:22):
is military, professionally,can be really, really
challenging.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So let's break that apart, kp, because a lot of
times in my experience servicemembers think that, oh gosh,
yeah, because I had that combatexperience, because I was an
officer, because I stayed in for20 years, I am the bomb.
Really right, people would belapping me up but not
recognizing that everybody onthe outside truly understands
(05:50):
what all of those things mean.
So how do we get people toreally understand that?
You know, you got to get theresume, you got to get your
branding and you got to eathumble pie a bit.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Humble pie.
Yeah, let's underline that one.
I think that's really importantas well, because I wasn't
humble at all, not that I wasarrogant or cocky, I just
thought that having everythingthat I had earned in the
military was going to translate.
And let me give you a quickstory on how funny this was.
So, like my first job after themilitary, I worked for a large
(06:23):
company.
It was in operations.
I actually managed a departmentof union workers.
And I remember one day you knowus in the military, we know the
difference between an NCO and anofficer and we know the
difference between enlisted andcommissioned officers and
warrant officers.
We understand all that, we knowthe different positions.
And I remember one day I wasworking there as a supervisor
(06:46):
and I had an employee that wasdisciplined for something
they're showing up late orsleeping or something on the job
.
It was something wacky, but Iremember the comment that was
from another supervisor therethat had never been in the
military and he said well, whydon just, you know, be a drill
instructor and, and you know,smoke them or whatever?
(07:08):
And it was like a drillinstructor, like I wasn't a
drill instructor, I was acommissioned officer, and it was
just funny to me because itdidn't seem like they understood
the difference between you knowwhat they had watched on, you
know saving private ryan versuslike you know what real life was
and uh, it, that's.
That's the difference is likeyou've got people out there that
(07:29):
have literally the onlyconnection to the military is
what they've seen in the movies,so they don't know the
difference between an E5 and anO3.
And you'll run into that.
I think it's really importantfor folks out there to
understand that.
It's really important to openyour ears and open your mind and
(07:50):
to be open to listening tofolks when it comes to that time
to transition, because a lot ofthe things that you do for
example, like I went through theair assault course, the Army
air assault course, which isrigging and rappelling um two
week course, uh, and I had areally difficult time explaining
(08:15):
what that was to a civilianrecruiter and trying to add
value to how does this apply tothe position that you're seeking
to get Um.
So I think that that beinghumble and understanding that a
lot of what you do in themilitary may not translate over
and you may have to do someextra civilian certifications to
help draw that line from whatyou've done to where you want to
(08:36):
go so then, kp, how doessomebody really start
translating what they've doneinto simple, clear terms,
especially in an interview?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
what would you recommend other than yes, okay,
let me go get somecertifications, educations to
match what is needed in civilian, but without necessarily
negating everything that you do.
What would be yourrecommendation to make sure in
an interview, you're explainingthat appropriately?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Learning how to sell yourself is really important.
So when I went through a careerheadhunter that was helping
military officers and higherenlisted folks find jobs, one of
the coaches there sat acrossfrom me and he goes look, you've
got folks here that went toWest Point, that have like 4.0
(09:27):
GPAs played sports.
You've got people here that areway more impressive on paper
than you.
So you have to sell yourself.
And here's the thing You're nota person that was born with a
silver spoon in his mouth.
Everything that you've earned,you fought for, you're a
scrapper, you're a fighter.
So when you're sitting acrossfrom a recruiter, you need to
explain that that.
(09:48):
Look, I know that on paper Ididn't go to the Naval Academy,
but understand that I was amilitary brat, moved around
quite a bit, my grades weren'texactly where they were supposed
to be, but at the end of theday, I decided to serve my
country, joined at 18 years old,worked my way through college,
worked a part-time job, juststarted explaining this
(10:11):
character of person that wasgoing to get the job done, no
matter what, because mycompetition was the six or seven
other people that he was seeingthat day that had way more
impressive and sexier resumesthan me because they were, I
guess, positioned in a betterspot or maybe they made better
decisions at a younger age thanI did.
But at the end of the day, yougot to understand it doesn't
(10:32):
matter where you've been or whatyou've done.
It matters where you're goingto go and how hard you're going
to work.
It's all about the long termpersistence.
So, with that being said,selling yourself, You've got to
learn how to sit across from arecruiter and explain to them
why you're the best candidatethat they're going to see that
day.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And what do you think is the deficiency of people not
being able to sell themselves?
Is it because they're relyingon that veteran status mill
spouse that I often see thatpeople are really emphasizing
that they think for the mostpart, the recruiter is going to
understand them, so it's an easysell.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I think that at the end of the day, you got to look
at your competition.
So you're not just competingwith folks that are getting out
of the military.
No, you're competing with folksthat went to regular colleges
and were in certain fraternitiesand certain sororities and were
able to network.
So they already know John andCindy, because they're the
(11:30):
recruiters that we're talkingtoday, because they were in the
same fraternity that I was in orsame sorority that they were in
.
So that's the thing, too, yougot to understand is like, even
when I went to my first job,like the folks that I was
competing with never served inthe military.
So it's the thing, too, you gotto understand is like, even
when I went to my first job,like the folks that I was
competing with never served inthe military.
So it's not just about thissmall pool of folks getting out.
You're competing with the restof the world.
(11:51):
Now your military service islike oh, that was cool
conversation that will lastabout five minutes After that,
when they start getting into thenuts and bolts of like, what
can you give me if I put you inthis position is real talk, and
you need to be able to speak thelanguage.
(12:12):
I think one of the biggestthings is a lot of us in the
military have imposter syndrome.
You don't realize your overallvalue.
A lot of times in the militarywe kind of talk ourselves down
from being the heroes that wereally are.
You know, especially if you'vedeployed, if you've gone TDY or
if you spent time away from yourfamily On base.
(12:35):
Everyone else has done the samething.
But if you, once you leave themilitary, you're going to find
out that really quickly.
If you're sitting around anycampfire in your neighborhood,
you're probably the only personthat served in the military and
so you're no longer in acommunity of folks that have the
same type of experiences.
(12:56):
Now you're going to be whenyou're in the civilian world.
You're going to be sittingaround folks that have no idea
what your life was like.
So you know it could beimposter syndrome that some
folks suffer from.
It's not just one thing youknow when they're getting out.
Sometimes it's multiple things,or it's either imposter
syndrome or it's not knowing howto sell yourself, or sometimes
(13:17):
it's thinking that, like myself,thinking that, oh well, this is
going to be a piece of cake.
I got this.
I don't need any help.
I actually, when I left the army, they had a program on base
called TAPS, and TAPS was atransition program.
And I remember one of mysoldiers came up to me and
showed me a resume thatsupposedly TAPS had reviewed and
(13:39):
it looked terrible.
It looked horrible and it wasto the point where, like I'm not
going there for anything, so Ipurposely went there when I out
processed.
I went there the last day justto go in there and get their
signature.
And I wasn't supposed to dothat.
But with you know, I was justlike whatever, like I'm leaving
tomorrow, so you guys need tosign this right now.
They're like well, we haven'treviewed your resume, I don't
(14:00):
need you to just sign my stuffso I can get out of here.
And so they didn't look at anyof my stuff.
I didn't get their help.
I didn't want their help.
So that was my own.
That was my own fault that Idid that.
I should have at least beenopen and willing to have them
take a look at my materials andsee what opportunities they
could have offered me.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
But I think, too, a lot of times we don't know what
we don't know.
If I look at my transition to Iwent to TAPS.
I had no clue what was neededfor this other side of the
journey.
I was told to go to TAPS, butreally what was being shared?
I didn't see the relevance tome.
I didn't know how to apply it,so I just went through the
motions, yes, got the check mark, but then when I was done, then
(14:42):
I was like lost, completelylost.
A needle in a haystack here andhaving to figure my way out.
And this is one of the keythings that we're really trying
to support in the mastermind ismaking sure that you're not just
doing things ad lib.
You're having a good strategicplan.
You're understanding the otherside of the world.
You're understanding what isneeded in these jobs, how to
(15:05):
excel in it, how to beat thecompetition, how to sell
yourself and a lot of it.
As you were saying too, kp isthat for the most part in the
military, you knew when you weregoing to make rank.
You knew what was needed.
Somebody is telling you yourtime in service, so you had all
of these things alreadypre-planned for you, right?
There was no, necessarilythinking of myself.
(15:26):
How am I growing other thanwhat service I'm providing?
So that's why I think you knowcoming back to what you're
saying is that it's so criticalthat you're learning your
preparation is a key word thatyou're saying.
But one thing I want to comeback to there is earlier on we
said we need to eat humble pie.
Your rank, what you did, badassor not is not necessarily going
(15:47):
to get you extra points.
We get veteran status at fivepoint, disability, etc.
But on one hand we say, eathumble pie because that really
doesn't matter so much, theweight of it isn't incredible in
the civilian space.
But then on the other hand, wesay talk yourself up, don't be
humble in those interviews.
(16:08):
Talk about what you've done sothat you can sell yourself.
So how do we make that balancebetween eating humble pie and
not being so humble?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So I kind of know myself.
And it's interesting becauseany type of high pressure
training that I've ever beenthrough, I've always I ask
myself two things so where am Iand what am I doing?
So if I am a student in acourse at the time, no matter
what rank I am, I'm at a courseright now and I'm a student
(16:42):
right.
So it's the same thing, likewhere am I right now?
So I'm a transitioning veteranand I'm at a, I'm at a
recruiting event.
Understanding that, I thinkthat overall it takes the
pressure away sometimes when youhave a little bit of humbleness
about yourself.
(17:02):
I know myself that if I go inrehearsed, I think that's the
big key is I'm not saying thatyou need to talk yourself up,
you just need to understand howto sell yourself.
There's a big difference inthat, like there's a difference
between cockiness andunderstanding your true value,
(17:23):
and I think it's reallyimportant for you to rehearse.
Rehearse in a way that you canexplain to someone that's never
been in the military before,like you need to take the box of
blocks and dump them out on theground, take off your shoes,
sit crisscross applesauce and,like, play the blocks with
people that have never been inthe military.
(17:44):
They don't know the lingo.
They don't know what MOS is.
They don't know what any of.
They don't know what branchesare None of it.
You have to rehearse to whereyou understand how to sell
yourself, but at the same time,when you're in there, you have
to in order to bring thosestress levels down a little bit.
You got to look at thatrecruiter as if oh well, this is
just a conversation today, andI think that's the difference.
(18:05):
Talk yourself up to your truevalue.
Rehearsed wise.
But when you're having thatconversation with a recruiter,
just remind yourself this isjust a conversation, because
it's just as much of aninterview for you as much as it
is for you interviewing them.
Because this may not be the jobfor me, I may think I want it,
(18:26):
but if this recruiter comes offas like someone I couldn't
really gel with, or this companyseems like the culture's off,
then maybe you don't want to bethere.
So think of it that way too.
It's a two-way street, likewe're communicating, we're
conversating to see if thiswould truly be a good fit, not
just for you but for me too.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I agree, and I think at the end of the day, maybe if
I were to define it that humblepie is that level of expectation
.
Don't expect that you would geta job because you got rank or
you got time in service, right,you got to go out there and
prepare.
You got to make sure that yourresume is, you know, being able
to translate into the civilianworld, somebody read it and
(19:05):
there's not a bunch of acronymsand all of these things that
they don't understand.
So there is that level ofexpectation and then the level
of preparation and being able tosell yourself, as you said.
But I think to one area that Isee people struggle with is just
not believing in themselves,the mindset.
And this is where we start themastermind with getting into
(19:29):
that mindset.
You got to believe in yourskills, you got to acknowledge
where your weaknesses are andthen speak to how you're going
to address those.
So, kp, I mean for me, I havegone through my own development
over the years and definitelygot more confident.
I can say that I have beenconsistently suffering with
(19:51):
imposter syndrome, but I do havemy bouts of it and I know how
to control it.
But I also have thecheerleaders around me to help
support.
So what recommendations do youhave to make sure that people do
feel comfortable in thatinterview, selling themselves
and making sure that they standout from the crowd confidently?
(20:11):
Too often I see people kind oflike in the background you have,
you know, half a camera and, tobe honest, it is like you're
not going to get the job.
You have to lean into thediscomfort, you have to believe
in yourself, but I can say thatas much as I want to somebody.
But how do you get them toreally break through the
(20:32):
barriers of imposter syndromeand being able to show up in
those interviews?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I mean, like I mentioned earlier, rehearsals
are huge.
I know that for me when it cameto podcasting, just to become a
better speaker.
Chris McPhee had mentioned thathe joined Toastmasters and that
was very helpful, becauseToastmasters is a speaking
engagement group.
There is an annual fee to joinit.
(21:00):
But I think that communicationand being able to speak is a
huge part of leadership, andbeing able to explain yourself
clearly and being able to speakprofessionally is really
important as well.
So things like that can helpyou as far as presentation goes,
but nothing beats just puttingyourself behind the camera,
(21:23):
hitting record.
If it's a virtual interview,then practice with your spouse.
Practice with friends, thenpractice with your spouse.
Practice with friends If you'rein the military.
Ask your leadership to help youout as well.
As far as reviewing andrehearsing, it's crazy because
even as a instructor, as a youknow, as an instructor, with
(21:46):
with my, with my employer,there's many times where I'll
stand in an empty classroom andI'll just stand there and talk
and just learn how to speak andhow to explain things, and it
sounds crazy, but sometimesthat's what you need to do, even
just to learn how to sellyourself.
I think, um, that's just thethings those are just the things
that I've done over time isjust rehearse, rehearse,
rehearse until I'm comfortablewith it and understanding a
(22:09):
certain template, uh, to utilizewhen you're answering questions
.
So one thing that I've used inthe past to be confident about
fully answering a question is Ihave utilized the STAR technique
, which is the Situation Task,actions and Results.
Or you can shorten it to whereit's Situation, actions and
(22:32):
Results actions and results oryou can shorten it to where it's
situation, actions and results,and so that'd be a great thing
for you to Google or look uponline is the STAR method, and
it's great because it literallyin your mind when you're
answering a question.
It starts from beginning to end.
It's like writing a story.
So it starts out with like thesituation was I was an army
captain, this happened, theactions I took were A, b and C,
(22:59):
and then the results were Isaved the world from exploding.
And doing that every singletime you answer those questions
I think gives you confidencebecause it keeps you sort of
compartmentalized with beginning, middle and end.
So things like that practicingand having those templates in
your mind, I think is a greatway to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
So, kp, one of the key things you keep coming back
to is that preparation right.
We just can't take it forlightly because we were in the
military.
We're going to get the job, butwe know preparation takes work.
This is hard.
Nobody wants to do this stuffright.
I don't want to pull out myphone and practice, but how do
you really emphasize the need toprepare?
(23:45):
There is a runway.
It can take six months, it cantake a, depending on where you
want to go on the gaps that youhave to fill in.
But what would be yourrecommendation to making sure
that people take this seriously?
Here in the Mastermind we got agroup of people going through
the program, but not everybodyis going to want to put in the
(24:08):
work.
Life gets in the way.
So how do you make sure thatpeople understand the
consequences of not beingprepared?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I think, understanding the entire
battlefield of what you'redealing with, the long view of
what you're dealing with.
So, for example, right here, myhandy dandy dry erase board.
It's not just for looks, it'sactually back here for a purpose
.
So what I have on here is Iwrote ideal salary and then I
(24:41):
have ideal location, idealcareer right, those are the
three components, Like whenwe're looking for a job, to get
those three things to actuallyintersect.
On this, I guess journey thatwe're on to get those three
things to intersect is verydifficult to do to get those
three things to actuallyintersect.
On this, I guess journey thatwe're on to get those three
things to intersect is verydifficult to do To get those
things, all three of thosethings, to intersect at the same
time.
The only way that you are ableto really get that closer to one
(25:03):
another is if you do prepareAll right.
So, for example, I just drewthis down here this is you've
got your salary, locationintersecting right here, but
then you've got your idealcareer way over here.
So something has to sacrifice.
It's hard to get all three tointersect at the same time
because in the military when youget out, they give you a
(25:26):
retirement date.
All right, they give you an ETSdate and after that ETS date
you are unemployed, and sothat's the challenge.
It's not like you can put inyour two weeks to go hey, I've
got another job lined up Afterthat date.
You're either employed oryou're unemployed.
So that can be a real challengein itself.
It can be really stressful.
(25:47):
It can be a lot of thatpressure and a lot of that
stress by simply having optionsputting yourself out there.
The more offers you get, thebetter off you're going to be.
(26:09):
And I think understanding, likeI'm a very visual person, so
when I was getting out I wasthinking about those lines and
like, how do I get these linesof like?
location, ideal salary and idealjob to intersect on the 15th of
August when I get out.
How do I do that?
That's not.
There's no two weeks.
How do I get that all throughthose lines to intersect on the
15th?
And at the end of the day I do.
(26:29):
I wasn't able to get all threeto intersect.
I was able to get salary andlocation and that was it, but
not ideal job.
So yeah, that's kind ofimportant, I think, for folks
out there to motivate to startearly.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, and that's the key thing.
And if I had to do it again,just really understanding the
reasons behind planning, Ireally had no clue.
I was a lost lamb figuring itout and I often ask myself had I
had a good transition plan,where would I be compared to
where I'm at now?
I don't negate my success inany way, but how many learning
(27:10):
lessons would I have avoided orpitfalls in the road?
So that's why we're all herereally emphasizing again this is
important Set yourself up forsuccess.
Don't just jump in the car anddrive anywhere.
You understand what yourdestination looks like and then
being able to fill in the gap,kp.
One last question I'm going toask you here is oftentimes I
(27:34):
feel people are set on aspecific destination, that plan,
the three lines intersectingthey must be perfect and I often
feel it holds them back fromaccepting a job.
Then it amplifies the stress.
You know my finances, all ofthese things.
So, thinking about yourself andyou talked about that first job
, leaving the first job what ismaybe your number one piece of
(27:57):
advice?
That, do we need to get itperfect?
Do we need to have all theanswers for that very first job?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
So that's actually a really, really great question.
Nicole, you're an excellentinterviewer, by the way.
I just want to say I envy you.
Even after podcasting for theselast couple of years.
You're awesome.
I really think that you have toset your expectations out.
I'm young, I've got a graduatedegree, I've got combat
(28:25):
experience.
You know I'm an O3, I'm acaptain, I've got a Bronze Star
in Iraq.
I've done all these greatthings right.
But my expectations were waytoo high.
(28:45):
Like I thought that I was goingto be offered so many jobs and I
think I had four at thebeginning of of when I started
transitioning, which I startedtransitioning maybe eight months
from my, from my actual like uh, getting out of the military,
and so I had four initially andthen, when it was all said and
done, I had one, one offer andit was.
(29:06):
It was so scary to think likeon the 15th of August, think
like on the 15th of August I wasgoing to be unemployed.
So you know it was either takethat job or go jobless.
So how do you go from being anarmy captain to like no job?
Like that, just to me, Icouldn't even fathom.
I was like I got to take thisjob.
I guess I uh that overall umthat when it, when it comes time
(29:36):
to to transition, set yourexpectations to understand that,
like this may not be the knowall be all, this may not be my
forever home, this may be like aa three year, four year stint
for me, maybe one year, whoknows but you got to take a
swing in order to hit the balland so, at the end of the day,
(29:57):
you know, be prepared to getthere, learn the culture, learn
who you're working with.
You know always have yournetwork out there, because I was
, even after I was there, I,after about a year of being at
my first job, even after I wasthere, after about a year of
being at my first job, I got acall one day and I got a job
(30:19):
offer for something I hadapplied for two years prior and
it was a great opportunity forme working in the federal
government.
And here I am, like 16 yearslater I've been working for the
federal government.
So, with that being said, I meanI kept my mind open, kept my
options open.
I was planning on goingsomewhere, taking another leap,
(30:44):
but setting your expectationsand keeping an open mind and
don't be too hard on yourself,like, at the end of the day,
those of us that are in themilitary, we're rough and tough
and resilient.
You know we're we.
You know pick ourselves up,brush ourselves off.
We keep going, and that's whatseparates us from everyone else.
So, yeah, I think that's.
(31:06):
I think that's it basically isjust, you know, set your
expectations and don't be toohard on yourself.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, and I think too , adding to that, just even
comparison right Comparison is athief of joy.
We're all running our own racemy capabilities compared to
yours, my journey.
It may take me six months toland that job compared to you.
So there are so many varyingfactors there, but at the end of
the day, the key word here ispreparation, setting your
(31:32):
expectations, understandingwhere you're going, filling in
those gaps.
But not everything is going tocome on a silver platter because
you have veteran or militaryaffiliated.
In some way.
You got to put the work in, andthat's often the hard part,
because there's so much work tobe put in, and this is why we
stress all the time.
You know have a runway fortransition my opinion two years,
(31:56):
but it's okay If you're justgetting started.
You got two weeks in front ofyou.
Have a plan and this is whywe're here at Acnell Mastermind.
All right, everybody.
This is it for today's session.
I'm so grateful for you, kp.
It is awesome to be on thisside.
Thanks for telling me I did agood job.
I am here shaking in my boots,but thank you so much for this
(32:19):
and we will see you guys onSaturday.
Take care everyone.
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