Burnout, Military Brotherhood, And Being Honest with Joshua Mach aka JMach Podcast

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We sit down with Joshua “JMach” Mach to talk burnout, identity after service, and how honest conversations can save a life. From raising resilient kids to setting standards in mentorship and sobriety, we unpack what it means to lead at home and in the community.

• asking twice to get real answers
• social media masks versus real burnout
• redefining success around family and service
• boundaries with content, algorithms and rest
• values stack of God, country, family
• feeling alone while carrying others’ burdens
• parenting for resilience not comfort
• mentoring standards and meeting halfway
• service identity without combat experience
• therapy, sobriety and doing the work
• tracing trauma back to childhood
• authenticity costs and protecting sanity
• legacy as giving back and staying humble

Make sure you follow Joshua on Instagram, YouTube, JMach Podcast. Go to www.JmachPodcast.org or find him on all social media at "JMach Podcast."

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Warriors fall in.
It's time for formation.
I'm your host, KP, and today,Formation Nation, we've got
someone who's been grinding,building, and speaking truth
with purpose.
Joshua Mock, also known as JMock, who I have heard from
multiple guests.
You gotta you gotta get with JMock.
You gotta you gotta talk toJoshua.
And so here we are today.

(01:18):
It's an absolute honor to be onthe show today with someone
who's very intentional and whois about legacy discipline and
refusing to fold when life'spressures, you know, get on top
of us, and sometimes we can'thandle it, man.
I know you talk a lot about thesuicide prevention.
Um, and then you your yourplatform, you have a lot of

(01:39):
really deep conversations, andI've looked at some of your
YouTube videos, and I noticedthat the first thing you ask
people is, How are you doingtoday?
And then they tell you, and thenyou're like, Well, how are you
really doing today?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
Where does that come from?

SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Uh, because the I I don't like service level
conversations.
Like, I I don't want to hear thebullshit.
I I want to know who you arebehind the closed doors, right?
But when you approach somebodyand you say, Hey, how are you
doing?
Your first response is gonna begood, living the dream, I'm
alive.
Okay, well, what's fueling allthat?
So, how are you really doing?
And I I've noticed that it takesyou asking somebody how they're

(02:19):
really doing twice beforethey'll be willing to start
opening up.
Because in today's society, youdon't know if someone actually
cares when they're asking youhow you're really doing, but I'm
that one person that you canguarantee that I'll care and
I'll I want to hear you out.

SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
It's pretty amazing when you start talking to people
and you start getting aroundcertain folks, especially in
like I noticed in big cities.
Um, I've lived all over theU.S., from Ohio to Kentucky to
New Jersey, Hawaii, nowCalifornia, and I live right
here in LA.
And it seems like in LA we're sobusy and so caught up in
ourselves and what we're doingthat we don't have time to check

(02:57):
on one another and ask thosemore in-depth questions.
But then we're always at facevalue when we have these social
medias like uh Instagram, uh,TikTok, and everyone's
pretending that they're livingthe greatest life ever, but a
lot of people don't know thepressure that's going on when
the cameras are off.

(03:17):
And you and I briefly spokeabout burnout.
And I know you've been feelingthat lately.
Yes, sir.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?

SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yeah, dude.
I went from like, I feel like Iwas on a high like motivation,
the drive, the passion, it's allthere.
The momentum was building.
And then one day I just woke upand I'm just I've I don't know
if it's the pressure, if it'sbecause my value or version of
being successful is beingfinancially like set, like being
able to do what you want whenyou want, and that's not where

(03:51):
I'm at yet.
But I don't want to stop lettingpeople know that I care because
I'll always care regardless.
This isn't all about money.
But as a person to feelsuccessful and valuable, like my
wife's still working, and myultimate goal is to make that
make sure she gets to retire ornot have to work for the rest of
her life.
I want to be able to bring herhome so she could be the
stay-at-home mom, raising ourgirls, all of our kids, and just

(04:14):
being there.
But yeah, dude, burnout's reallybeen kicking my butt this past
couple of days.
And normally I would allowmyself to just crawl into a
hole, be laying in bed all day.
And that this time I'm beingmore present and aware, and I'm
actually like forcing myself togo out.
I'm uh I could have easily said,no, I don't want to do this
podcast anymore, but um I'mforcing myself to be here.

(04:36):
Not but I won't I hope you don'ttake that in the wrong way
because I do want to be here.
Just the energy I have is alittle bit different right now
if that makes sense to you.

SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
I feel you, man.
Like this is I've been doingthis for four years now, and
I've gone through seasonsbecause personal life is
happening.
We just had a really closefamily member that passed away.
I changed positions at myfull-time job, so I've been
working quite a bit more and anda little bit more unexpected
hours and things like that.
And you know, you've got thingsgoing on outside of this because

(05:09):
I don't know about you, but thisdoesn't necessarily pay the
bills.
This is more of a passionproject for me.
For sure.
Is it the same for you?

SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
I'm it's about to pay the bills, all right?
I'm manifesting it because Idon't want to say this is just a
passion project to me becauseit's so much more than that.
And I think that's also myproblem.
I don't know how not to be JMac, right?
The the person that I preachabout being, I don't know how
not to be that person.
And that's draining at times,right?
Like I don't know how to putmyself first.

(05:38):
I'm always worried about who I'mtalking to or who I'm with or
what they're going through,instead of truly taking that
time for myself.
And this burnout session, I callit, is the first time that I've
actually put myself first in asense, where I'm still I still
created the content.
I just scheduled it out.
So now I'm not like just fallingoff the algorithm.

(05:59):
I still have content that'sgetting pushed out there, and
I'm letting people know, hey,look, this is what I'm going
through.
I'm not going to be responsiveright now.
And I'm more focused on myselfand my immediate family.

SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
I think you struggle with what like a lot of veterans
struggle with, and that's that'spriorities and value.
A lot of us, it's especiallythose of us that have served or
first responders, you know, weget into this line of work not
necessarily for the money, butfor the community.
And I always tell people thethree top things is um God,

(06:31):
country, family.
And however you want toprioritize that, those should be
your top three things.
Do you think that sometimes youfeel like you're in a lonely
place, or do you think thatyou're surrounded by others that
also have those types ofpriorities?

SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
I think it's a mixture of both.
And part of it's on me likerealizing who my priorities and
who has the same priorities inthat.
So part of it is that I justdon't want people to feel the
way that I have felt before.
Like I don't want people to feelalone.
I don't want people to feelworthless and all that.
While I still feel all thosefeelings myself, right?

(07:05):
And I'm constantly doing myevents where I bring in mental
health resources for thecommunity.
I have community members comingin, learning about these
resources.
And I don't always take the timeto use them for myself because I
still feel a type of way.
I still feel alone.
Even in a crowded room, I'llfeel alone sometimes.
And I don't want other people toto feel that way.

(07:27):
So instead of focusing thatenergy on myself and figuring
out how to break out of that tofeel the love and support that I
have around me, I just giveeverything to people around me
so they don't feel that way.
And then I get into this burntout stage, and it's just a cycle
of my own insanity that I'vecreated that I'm going to break.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Do you get frustrated a lot of times?
Again.
I say that because that's whereI'm at.
A lot of the questions I'masking you is because I I
experience the same thing too.

SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Yeah.
So I feel like right now, whereI'm at in my life, I'm way too
short-tempered.
I get too frustrated and angrywith my kids.
And they're two and five yearsold.
And but I expect them to beacting like proper 17,
21-year-old kids, right?
And that's just my fault forhaving such a high expectation
and not realizing and valuingthat they are just innocent

(08:21):
little children, still trying tolearn how to grow and develop.

SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's tough because whenyou're raising kids, you're also
a life coach.
Like you're teaching these kidshow to life, and that's your
responsibility.
I run into a lot of parents, andin my opinion, I think it's the
wrong mentality to think, well,I want to be my kid's best
friend.
And like, no, I don't want to bemy kid's best friend.

(08:46):
I want to be their father, and Iwant to teach them how to hunt.
I don't want to teach them howto survive.
And I want to teach them how totake care of themselves in those
lull moments when they're theyfeel distressed and they feel
like there's no way out.
Like, that's my job.
My job isn't to make you feelgood and buy you ice cream
Sundays and all the candy andthe toys that you want and

(09:07):
things like that, man.
Like it's it's a ever forevergift when you're able to give
your kids the life lessons thatyou had to learn the hard way.
Um would you say that you had agood upbringing or was it kind
of a not so good upbringing?

SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
I say I had a good upbringing and it still fucked
me up.
Right?
Like I still have trauma fromit.
We all have trauma from ourchildhood.
I don't care how silver of aspoon you ate off of to how
terrible of a childhood you had.
I have also found that likepeople that had the tougher
childhood have a strongermentality moving forward in life

(09:49):
because they already wentthrough the suck.
And I agree with you.
It it's our goal or it's ourdesire to be our kids' best
friends, so they love us andthat.
But we also have to realize weare the disciplinarian.
We are the one that has to sayno.
And unfortunately, sometimeswe're gonna have to have our
kids cry because they can't haveeverything, and we can't allow
them thinking they can grow upand they're just gonna get

(10:09):
everything because that's gonnaset them up for failure.

SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
A thousand percent.
I agree.
And that's I think that's one ofthe biggest problems that we
have in today's generation isthey they don't know how to take
a fall and and get back up againbecause they've been so coddled
their whole lives.
And and I see it with theup-and-coming generations.
I've had multiple people peopleask me, like, hey, can you
mentor my son?

(10:33):
He wants to go in the military,he wants to be a first
responder, and then you know,they're 17, 18, 19, 20, some
years old.
Well, by this time it's almosttoo late because all the things
that they did growing up, theydidn't learn adversity.
They didn't learn how to get upagain once they fall down.
Everything's been handed to themfrom college money to their

(10:54):
first car to paying theirfreaking um car bills, their
insurance, all that stuff, man.
Like it nothing was reallyearned.
It was just kind of given tothem.
And then you're asking me at theage of 20 years old to mentor
this grown man now, and it'sit's really difficult.
And that's that's what I see asa father.
And for me, it's it's I like Ihave to remind myself that I'm a

(11:18):
father first over everythingelse because it it's really
frustrating um to see thisgeneration struggle as much as
they've been struggling withjust getting work, finding work,
and holding on to it.

SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Yeah, but to that I want to like cor not correct
you, but change your mindset.
Like it's not too late for thosekids.
Those kids need it the most.
They need the mentoring themost.
It's just not gonna be easy.
Like, just like dogs, you couldteach an old dog a new trick,
but it's just gonna be harderand and more more work, right?
It's not gonna be as easybecause you didn't have the
whole all those years to do it.

(11:51):
Yeah.
And one of the things I've beenteaching my daughter is like
when she falls down, like allthe other parents like jump up
and want to go rush to her.
And I was like, Wait, whoa,whoa, whoa.
Like, and I say, Hey, what doyou do when you fall down?
Nice and loud so she hears me.
And she says, get back up.
Whether she's crying or not, andshe'll get back up.
And so, like, yeah, the innerdad in me, I just want to rush
over there, make sure myprincess is still a princess and

(12:13):
okay, right?
But I know I have to let herteach her how to be strong
because one thing I struggledwith was failure, right?
I want it to be perfect, I wantit to be the best.
But part of life and growing isfailing, but failing forward.
So when you fall down, make sureyou fall forward so you can get
back up and keep moving.

SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
I wanted to ask you, and I meant to ask you in the
beginning, your militaryservice.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout that?

SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
My military experience, I feel it was
insufficient.
I feel like I for the longesttime, I feel like I failed my
mission of joining the MarineCorps.
So I didn't join till I was 23in 2013.
By that time, I'm sure you know,I was an old man by the time I
hit the fleet, right?
Um I didn't get deployed.

(13:01):
I went to Oman for a little lessthan a month, and uh I chose to
get out because I ended upgetting married while in.
I was a statistic for sure.
I was young, dumb, and full ofstuff, and chose to get married.
And well, that backfired.
And I couldn't separate my homelife from my work life.
So it just felt like a tornado,no matter where I was at.
Like home sucked, work sucked.

(13:22):
And I was like, Oh, I need toget out.
I need something new and fresh.
Which, if I would have stayedin, I would have got a new duty
station, I would have got thatnew and fresh.
Uh, but I chose to get out.
And for the longest time, as Isaid, I felt like a failure.
Like I didn't complete mymission of service, but I've
been able and have continued towork on my mindset that my
purpose for joining the MarineCorps wasn't to go fight the war

(13:43):
overseas, but to fight the warwe face once we get back home,
and that's exactly what I'mdoing.

SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Yeah.
The um what what year did you goin?
2013.
2013, okay.
Um you didn't deploy to Iraq orAfghanistan at all?
No, sir.
Do you do you feel like peoplethat served during that time

(14:08):
sometimes are hard onthemselves, hard on themselves
as far as like feelinginadequate because they didn't
go to the big fight?
And what's your experience withtalking to people about that?

SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah, 100%, dude.
It's a it's been a struggle fornot only myself, but uh several
other veterans that I've talkedto that are willing to open up
and share about it, right?
Because we feel inadequate, wefeel less than.
And all my seniors, they wentthrough it, they were training
us for it.
We got the experience, but neverhad the real life application.
And before, I used to think weall think like, man, we failed,

(14:43):
we didn't complete our mission,or we're not worthy of the title
Marine or veteran or whateverthe case may be.
And then we just got to take astep back and realize, man, what
a blessing.
Like we were, we trained, wesigned up, we were ready to go.
It just wasn't in our cards.
The Lord didn't hand it to usthe way that we wanted it to be.
And instead of realizing, Ithink you we can relate this

(15:06):
with all of life, right?
Instead of focusing on what wedon't have or what we didn't
get, we need to prioritize whatwe do have and what we do get.
Right?
Like, yeah, I wish I had thatmilitary experience.
And then I counter it with like,do I really wish?
Like, I'm already struggling, Ialready have these struggles and
challenges, but then now I wantto add on top of it being in

(15:27):
combat and potentially losing mybrothers or losing myself or
anything like that.
And I'm I'm sad because I didn'tget that experience.
Like, first of all, our brothersand sisters that lost their life
in that experience would giveanything to have the life I'm
having right now, but I'mchoosing to not live it to the
fullest because I didn't getthat experience.

SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Yeah.
Yeah, I've I've hadconversations with people before
that have um that didn't deploy,and then they act as if because
I did, that I'm my DD 214 isworth more than theirs.
And it's that's not the case.
Like it's I think my respectgoes out to anyone that serves
in the military because I thinksigning up and simply going to

(16:08):
an unknown location and turningthat that page to that new
chapter, I call it becoming anadult, because you're getting
away from family, you're goingto boot camp, you're going to be
getting a paycheck, like noone's there to like tell you,
you know, to pay your bills foryou.
So it's it's sort of growing up.
So my I have a lot of respectfor anyone that serves in the
military, but I've hadconversations with people that

(16:31):
that do feel inadequate becausethey didn't go to the big fight
or whatever, but like you said,it wasn't in the cards, it
wasn't like anyone tried toavoid anything.
But I I want to circle back towhat you mentioned about um the
20-some-year-olds that you tryto mentor.
The one thing that I learned wasI can't care more than you.

(16:53):
And it's man, it has it haspushed it has pushed family
members away.
Because when I first moved hereto California, I was asked to
like mentor some uh cousins ofmine, and they were in their
20s.
And I, you know, just like mostmilitary people, we we go all
in.
Like we we want the best of thebest for them to succeed.

(17:15):
And so everything from gettingthem the job to helping them
learn how to finance and allthat stuff was part of the whole
package.
But what I learned was I wouldget so frustrated because I
would try to explain things andthen they wouldn't follow
through with it.
And so what I've learned to dois try to meet them halfway.

(17:38):
Like I'll make them call me orI'll make them show up to me
versus me showing up to them.
And I think that's reallyimportant for mentors out there
to not get frustrated and burnedout is to sometimes people
aren't ready.
Like they're just not ready.
You know, most of these20-some-year-old kids are
they're not ready to bementored, and maybe it's their
parents pushing them.

(17:58):
So I've kind of gotten to apoint where like, okay, I'll
meet you halfway, but I'm notgoing further than that because
you may not be ready.
I mean, you'll come back in acouple years and maybe we can
talk again.

SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
Yeah, for sure.
That's I think you take thatinto life in general, right?
You can't make anybody doanything like that old analogy,
you can lead a horse to thewater, but you can't make them
drink it.
And I think you doing meetingthem halfway is a great work in
progress, but in reality, we gotto meet them where they're at.
And I don't mean driving tothem.
I mean, yeah, make sure theydrive to you, but meet them

(18:30):
where they're at with theirdiscipline and where they want
to go.
However, if you're mentoringsomeone, I feel like you also
have to be a little bit, youcan't just I take everything I
just said back, right?
Because if you're mentoringsomeone, you can't meet them
where they're at because thenthey're gonna stay there,
they're gonna feel comfortable.
It's almost like it's just likehow I would go to therapy for
years and expect that onetherapy session a week or a

(18:51):
month or whatever it was wasgonna do all the work for me.
Not that I actually had to gohome and do the homework and do
the prack app and put it to usein real life, right?
So I don't know if I answeredyour question or if I just went
off on my own tangent.
However, uh, I agree.
You can't just care more thansomeone else does because then
it'll burn you out because youcould see their you can see what

(19:13):
they're capable of or whatthey're what they can do, but
they might not see it here.
So it's gonna frustrate you andburn you out because you're just
striving so high to get them upto where you see them.
But in reality, they're righthere and they're stuck right
here.

SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah.
And just explaining thestandards.
I mean, I remember a few yearsago I told uh someone I was
mentoring, I was like, hey, meetme at my place, we're gonna run
three miles.
Their response was, but the testis only a mile and a half.
I'm like, you know what?
Like you're looking for a job asa first responder.
Like we're not looking for the60-second fight.

(19:46):
Like we're preparing for thethree to six six minute fight.
And that's the and where you'reat at your age, you should be
having no problems keeping upwith a 40-year-old man uh to run
three miles.
And that's and that's the andthat's the severity of it all.
It's like trying to set the barand set the standards and
explain why it's important.
It to me, it blows my mindbecause back when I joined the

(20:09):
military, like that was ano-brainer.
Like you weren't trying for 10pull-ups, you were trying for
20.
You were trying to do more.
And now it seems like the ideais that let's just clear the
bar, let's just smoothly clearthe top.
Like, no, like we need to notjust clear the bar, we need to
clear three bars or whatever thecase is.
And mentorship can be reallystressful, I think, in that

(20:32):
sense.
And it's something that I'vestruggled with over the years,
just trying to learn how to,like you mentioned, meet them at
where they're at, sort ofwhether it's communicating,
whether it's delivery.
Sometimes my delivery is not thebest way.
Sometimes it sounds bettercoming from Joshua Mock.
Like it just there's just somuch involved, man.
It's so frustrating.

(20:53):
But guys like me and you, wegive a shit.
Like we care, and that's thebottom line, right?

SPEAKER_01 (20:59):
Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say.
I was gonna say that's a kudosto you, though, because it just
shows how much you care and howmuch you believe in what you're
doing and how you can helpsomeone else, and you don't want
to keep all that knowledge toyourself, and you're willing to
share and help others, and it'sit's got it's just frustrating
when they don't want the help orthey're not willing to do what
they're clanked talking about.

SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
And guys like me and you have been there, done that
before.
Like we've made mistakes, and sowe're trying to teach the next
gen like how do we how do theyhave a clearer path?

SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
For sure.
I think I've been both peoplethat you've just talked about,
right?
The one that wanted thementorship but wasn't ready.
I went to the recruiter likethree, four separate times, like
years apart.
And it wasn't till obviously thelast time that I went that it it
stuck with me.
But I I also accredit therecruiter, he wasn't an asshole.
I told him what I was going todo and what I was willing to do.

(21:51):
And he he's like, okay, cool,I'll check on you once a month.
And that's what he did.
He didn't blow me up every day,every week, trying to figure it
out.
But I had to lose 70 pounds insix months.
I lost 70 pounds in six monthsjust to enlist into the Marine
Corps.
And for the longest time, I do Ican definitely see where I used
to think like as long as I canbeat the standard, that's good.

(22:11):
I always dreamed of getting the20 pull-ups and going above and
beyond.
I wasn't ever a runner, man.
But it's not about meeting thestandard, it's about setting the
standard.
You want to be the standard, youdon't just want to barely meet
the standard.
That's going to cause too muchstress in your life where you're
just barely beating theminimums.

SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
The one thing I explain to a lot of kids, and I
call them kids, young adults, isthat whether you get into the
military or you become a firstresponder, is those types of
careers are marathons.
And if you're starting thismarathon walking across the
start line, then you're going tobe in deep trouble by the time

(22:51):
you hit your 40s.
Like so you need to make surethat you are hitting it and you
get that momentum so that youget through those first 15, 20
years, uh, and then so you canhave a healthier career, all
right, and you can be effectiveand have a fulfilling career as
well.
And guys like you that get outand then you continue doing

(23:13):
things like what you're doingright now with the podcast, you
know, I'm it's it's sorefreshing to to see folks like
you because I I can tell howmotivated you are.
Man, I went through a lot ofyour YouTube videos and and
listened to a lot of your uhconversations that you had.
But what was the moment ofimpact that pushed you to start
the J Mock podcast?
Not just think about it, butactually execute my therapist.

SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
So I when I got out of the Marine Corps, I separated
my shoulder, had a grade five ACjoint separation, had to have
surgery.
Fast forward a couple years, Ididn't properly rehab it
properly, so I'm paying for thatnow.
But I was tagged in uh youremember the 22 push-up a day
challenge?
I was tagged in that, and but Iwhat there was no way I was

(23:57):
gonna do 22 push-ups for oneday, let alone 22 days.
And it was just eating me alive,like I was failing my brothers
and sisters, like I could do somuch more to help.
Then the next day, one of myMarine Corps buddies posted a
meme that said, Stop doing thefucking push-ups, pick up the
phone and call your buddy.
And that's where like the lightbulb went off in my brain.
I was like, Oh, dude, this is agreat idea.

(24:18):
I originally pitched it tosomeone else because I didn't
think I was worthy or capable oranybody would want to talk to
me.
He turned it down.
I was in therapy and I wastalking to my therapist that I
had this idea and he didn't wantto do it, and blah, blah, blah,
blah.
She tried to convince me intopulling out my phone and going
live in her office, telling allmy friends and family that I was

(24:38):
gonna start this and this iswhat I was doing.
And I was like, now you're thecrazy one, let's switch chairs,
joking.
But then I went home and madethe video like I promised, and I
started this.
It'll be five years thisVeterans Day.
One thing I want to say about ifyou ever have a dream or vision
or passion to start something,the best thing to do is to make
it exist and then make it good.

(24:59):
Because if you look back in mypodcast to begin with, it was
trash.
I didn't even know how torecord.
I was trying to do FaceTimescreen record, which didn't even
record the audio.
It was just terrible.
And I ended up breaking a twoand a half year sobriety in
order to start the podcast or dothe podcast because I thought
nobody would want to talk to meunless I was drinking, or

(25:19):
because I couldn't be the bestversion of myself unless I was
drinking, which is a lie.
But it was just I was soinsecure and so so lost at the
time, I thought I needed todrink.
But I'm back on that sobrietytrain.
I'm more so California sober.
I'll still smoke canvas here andthere.
Uh, I but my defense for that islike when was the last time you

(25:39):
heard Marines burn down a barbecause it got too high?
Never.
When was the last time theyburned down a bar because they
drank too much?
Probably like five minutes ago,right?
Uh, not a good justification,but I'm also trying to use the
cannabis in a more medicinalmanner, where instead of having
five to ten prescriptionsthrough the VA, I have one or
two and I'm managing my painthrough the cannabis and not

(26:01):
taking it to that recreationallevel because I do believe
there's a huge differencebetween recreational cannabis
and medicinal cannabis.

SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
Yeah, no doubt, man.
And you talked about something Ithink that is really should be
encouraging for more veteransout there, and that's therapy.
How long did it take for you tocome to terms that you needed to
start doing that?

SPEAKER_01 (26:24):
Man, I tried to go to therapy while I was in the
Marine Corps.
I mean, I successfully went totherapy while I was in the
Marine Corps, but I didn't dothe homework.
I didn't do the work.
I thought my talking inventingto this person would help solve
all my problems.
And then I got out of the MarineCorps, and it probably took me
two to three years to get backinto therapy again.

(26:47):
But then it took me like anothertwo years to start actually
doing the homework.
And I've been to more than justtherapy.
I I've checked myself in onetime.
I went to a two-week mentalhealth program through the
Wounded Warrior out in Bostoncalled Home Base, and that was
super beneficial.
Like they teach you sorts ofdifferent techniques that you
can use, but you're surroundedby veterans that are going

(27:08):
through the same things you'regoing through.

SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
I appreciate your accountability and your
self-awareness.

SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
This is all I know.
Like uh I don't want to be, Iguess my fear is I have imposter
syndrome, right?
Where like I feel less than,lack then, but I don't want
anybody else to be able to say,oh, he's lying, or call me out
for some bullshit.
So I'd rather just tell you thetruth right off the bat.
Like, I don't I don't want tohave to feel like I'd lied to
somebody and have to keep thatlie up.

(27:37):
I'd rather just be fucking openand honest the entire time.

SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
Yeah, I think that's the best policy, man, because
there's nothing to be ashamed ofat all.
Everybody, I don't care howperfect they they portray
themselves, everybody has someshit in their background.
Like it not there's no one outthere that was like the perfect
leader, the perfect soldier, theperfect marine every single
time, all the time.

(28:00):
We need to stop thinking likethat.
Even myself, man, there'sthere's times where I completely
failed or I've made baddecisions.
And the biggest thing for me isto live and learn, look back at
it, figure out what I can dobetter going forward.
I was talking to a friend ofmine the other day, and I asked
him, you know, he's goingthrough a divorce.

(28:23):
Um and I I asked him, I said,Hey, if you could go back and
put everything back in place theway it was before, and work on
yourself and and whatever youneed, would you do it?
And his response was, I don't Idon't look back at things, I
just keep moving forward.
And I'm thinking, in my opinion,that's a stupid thing to say.

(28:44):
That is so stupid.
Because at the end of the day,we're supposed to reflect, look
in the mirror, look atourselves, look at what we did
right, look at what we didwrong, and try to fix things for
the future.
Would you agree with that too?

SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
You gotta reflect back and seewhere you did wrong so you can
correct it so it doesn't happenagain, or where you were right,
and or where you exceeded at, soyou can mimic that and keep
moving forward that way.
You definitely have to look backin your past.
If you're not looking back,you're running from something,
and eventually it's gonna catchup to you.
So there's a great saying aboutthe water buffalo, I believe it

(29:21):
is, where they're the onlyanimals that turn into the storm
when it's coming.
So it's the fastest way out isto turn into it and embrace it
and go through it.

SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm constantly in my mindreviewing things that my life
experiences, and I'm constantlytrying to think how could I have
handled that better?
What can I do better for thefuture?
You know, everything frommentoring to personal life
stuff.
Um, I think we have a lot incommon when it comes to our own

(29:53):
pitfalls.
And you might have you mighthave came here for the same
reason I did when it came topodcasting.
I felt alone.
I started during the pandemic,and I live in a big ass city
called Los Angeles, but eventhough we have a lot of people
here, this is a really lonelyplace.
There's not, I don't connectwith a lot of veterans in my own

(30:14):
neighborhood or in my owncommunity.
I mean, we all live in LA, butthey're like all over the place,
and everybody's too damn busyfor each other.
When you first launched thispodcast, what were some of the
pitfalls or personal fear,internal resistance that you had
to try to kill off?

SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Dude, so many.
Like all my limitingself-beliefs about myself that
I'm unworthy, I'm undeserving,nobody wants to talk to me.
Like, who the fuck am I?
Sorry, am I allowed to curse onyour?
I'm going to, anyways.
All right.
But like, yeah, dude, all thoselimiting self beliefs, I had
them all myself.
I still battle them to this day.
Now, even five years intopodcasting, there's still times

(30:55):
I question like, dude, why?
Am I on TMF right now, dude?
Like, what did I do to deserveto be here?
There's someone more deservingthan me, right?
But I think one of the biggesteye-opening things is when I
finally got to understand andaccept that nobody's coming to
save me except myself.
So the more that I put into mywork and what I'm doing, now I'm

(31:18):
hosting two live shows a monthwhere I have live audiences in
there watching me talk, where Ibring in eight different mental
health resources from within theveteran community.
I think a lot of it also had todo, and I want to blame, I don't
want to blame the military, butthey do do a great job at
keeping us drunk, right?
Like you go to the PX or thecommissary, and the biggest

(31:40):
aisles are the alcohol sections.
It takes up the majority of thestore, right?
Uh I think stopping drinkinghelped me learn more about
myself and who I actually am.
Because now I'm no longer livingin that anxiety, or I still have
anxiety, don't get me wrong.
But drinking brings a differentlevel of anxiety to you because

(32:02):
it changes your brain, itchanges your thought process.
So you wake up and you're you'redepressed.
I I woke up and I'd bedepressed.
One of the last times I drank, Iwas so proud of myself because I
only drank Bud Light.
I didn't mix, I didn't takeshots, nothing.
I got home safely, played withmy kids, they went to bed, hung
out with the wife.
I went to bed happy, woke updepressed.

(32:25):
And I was like, all right, dude,this is enough.
Why is this?
And it's just because I wasn'thappy in life.
And drinking made me feel like Iwas happy, but it was just a
mask.
And then the more I started tolike drink, the more you feel
like you have to drink, and thesooner you have to have another
drink so you can get to beingthat version of yourself.
So I finally put all that stuffaside and started to like truly

(32:46):
work on myself.
And bro, two, three years ago, Iprobably would tell you bullshit
that I'm sitting down right nowtalking to you on our podcast or
your podcast.
I'd be like, there's no way I'mstill only doing audio only
podcasts.
I don't want my face seen,nothing like that.
But now I'm here and I'm fuckingtalking.

SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
And what's funny is she mentioned drinking too.
And here you are mentionedmentioning drinking a lot.
Um, and she did she did as well.
And the the issues that she hadwith it.
Um it it seems to be a commontheme, but I I I wholeheartedly
appreciate your honesty talkingabout that.
I've had guests on before thatact like, oh, I'm so polished

(33:35):
and I'm so perfect, and I'venever had anything, any vices in
my life, and I'm just an angel.
And I'm like, come on, you know,let's keep it real.

SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Yeah, I I say to this day that if you joined the
military, once you signed thatdotted line, you were a
contractual alcoholic.
Whether you were drinking beforeyou went in, you were definitely
going to drink within that firstyear of being in the fleet.
And it's like encouraged, it'sthe thing to do, but it causes
the most problems.

SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
And I always tell people too that um everybody
blames the military sometimesfor like you, everyone has that
epic uncle that joined themilitary and now he's all fucked
up, and it's because of themilitary.
And I've always thought tomyself, that's not always the
case.
A lot of people go into themilitary with issues already.

(34:23):
And what happens is those issuesjust get magnified even bigger.
Um, and so whether it'schildhood trauma that you've
experienced, um, people think,well, I'll just join the
military and it'll solve all myissues.
Like that, it that doesn'talways happen.
If anything, it just blows itup, it makes it even bigger and
a lot worse.
So you got to handle thosesituations.

(34:45):
I've had that conversation withsome family members of mine
where I've said, look, I knowyou're still young, but I
encourage you to go to therapybecause it you may have shoved
all that stuff down and it's inthere somewhere, but it's gonna
come back at some point.
And it's gonna come back like avolcano, and you're not gonna
even realize it.

SPEAKER_01 (35:03):
No, for sure.
And I'm pretty sure we all havemental health problems that join
the military.
Nobody in their right mind isgonna sign up to go run into
bullets getting shot at them,right?
Like there has to be a reasonfor that.
And that's part of the reasonlike my event's called the
sandbox, because our traumastarted in the childhood
sandbox.

(35:23):
As veterans, we have trauma fromwhether going or not going to
the sandbox.
So let's heal as adults in thesandbox together.

SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Yeah.
Oh, that's pretty wise,actually.
I I never really thought aboutthat that uh relationship of
sandbox as a child and sandboxas a as a military veteran.
Your podcast in general, what'sthe mission behind your
platform?
When people watch you, what doyou want them to walk away with?

SPEAKER_01 (35:49):
Yeah, J Mac's podcast mission is to combat
veteran and first respondersuicide while reminding the
community that they're notalone.
We all have our struggles.

SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
Yeah.
That's pretty deep, actually.
And it's it's an extremelyimportant topic.
I mean, we've we I havepersonally known several uh
members that were in the armywhile I was in that uh committed
suicide after service.
And I always tell people, like,from a combat veterans
perspective, that many timesit's not what you deal with over

(36:19):
there, it's coming back here.
And I can tell you that Ipersonally had several soldiers
that begged me to stay in Iraqlonger, and I didn't understand
why.
As a 24-year-old lieutenant uhdownrange, I didn't understand
why these 30-year-old NCOs werebegging me to stay.
And what I learned was thatseveral of them simply told me,

(36:44):
they said, Look, when I left, Ihad the white picket fence, I
had the dog, I had the kids, Ihad the house.
But now when I go home, I've gotto go put all my stuff in
storage, move in with myparents, and I've got to go to
divorce court.
And that's hard to think aboutthat, you know, you survived a
year downrange and then you comeback here and your life is going
to be completely changed.
You expect like a hero's welcomeand you expect things to be back

(37:07):
in place again.
And oftentimes I wonder how manyof the people I served with are
doing today with their personallife and how they're handling
it.
But, you know, sometimes Ireconnect with them on social
media and sometimes I don't,because back when I was in uh
the really the hottest thingthat we had was like my space,
man.
There was no like LinkedIn andall this other stuff that we
have now.

(37:28):
So it's, you know, people arejust getting caught up with
getting connected from from myera per se.

SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
Absolutely.
And I don't think you youmentioned this and I wanted to
follow up, so I'm gonna bring itback a little bit.
But you said we all have traumabefore we join the military, and
then you're you're 100% right.
We have trauma before we jointhe military, then the military
trauma compiles, compounds ontop of that trauma.
But and then we react off of thetrauma that we think is caused

(37:53):
by the military, but we're onlyresponding that way because of
what happened to us as a child.
So when we go to therapy, wehave to stop trying to talk
about what happened in themilitary.
And we got to take it all theway back to the roots because
that's what formed our thoughtprocesses, our actions.
The way we're responding tocombat or not seeing combat is

(38:14):
all what we programmed or gotprogrammed as a child.
So that's the coding or whateveryou want to call it.
That's what we have to work on.
We have to go all the way back.
We can't just work.
We're so for me, I've been alivefor about 35 years now.
I can't go back five years andthink I'm gonna fix myself.
No, that's something I do needto work on, but I also need to

(38:35):
work on the first 30 years aswell.

SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
That's really important.
You're right, because lifedidn't start when you joined the
military.
You had a lot of things thathappened before that that you
might have to process and get adifferent perspective on that's
gonna keep you moving forward.
I I've learned over the yearsthat perspective is so important
when it comes to being able tokeep your wits, not be so

(38:58):
short-fused.
Um, one of the things that Istruggled with for a long time
was not being able to relate toother people, especially other
men, other dads, and things likethat.
But the one thing that Iunderstand is if I'm sitting at
a table for dinner, um, thechances of anyone else sitting
at that table and having gone toIraq or Afghanistan is very

(39:19):
slim.
And their perspectives are goingto be much different than mine.
And in today's world, a lot ofpeople gain a very strong uh
perspective on world politicsjust through watching their
phones, not actually having beenthere and done that before.
And I remembered, I rememberwhen I first got back, I think

(39:40):
it was two months after I cameback, I was sitting across the
table from a cousin of mine, andher husband was sitting there
telling me what was going on inIraq, and my boots were still
dirty.
And that's when I knew backthen, I was like, so this is how
it's gonna be for the rest of mylife.
I'm gonna have to listen toother people who weren't there
tell me how it is.
And to keep my frustrationlevels down, I have to have a

(40:04):
better perspective that theywork in a cubicle every day.
They've never been in themilitary, they've never been to
boot camp, they never served,they never wore the uniform.
So their perspectives are theirperspectives.
And that actually helps me outwith um just not just not being
so short-tempered, I guess, withand so frustrated with just life

(40:26):
in general.
Like I said, I think a lot ofour struggles are coming back
here and dealing with uh peoplethat just don't understand or
don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
I think that also has to we have to take
accountability for that, right?
And I'm not calling you or anyof our other brothers and
sisters or myself the victim,but we got to stop with that
victim mentality.
Like, yeah, that's somebodyelse's fucking opinion.
Now it's up to us on how we'regonna respond to that or react
to that.
Have you had the ability to sitdown?
Have you noticed any mindsetdifferences from sitting down

(40:57):
with Iraq-Afghanistan warveteran to just a veteran who
hasn't served and like thedifference in the mindset?
Like, do you feel like youcannot relate to a non-combat
veteran?

SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
I I think that there's um specifics that minute
specifics that they may notunderstand, but for the most
part, no.
Yeah, I mean, there's there'scertain things that like a
garrison person might see inperspective versus like a combat
veteran, but overall as a whole,no, not not really.

SPEAKER_01 (41:35):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:37):
That's an interesting question though.
So thank you.
Because it it was curiosity tome.
Like, do you feel like you Iguess I was relating to me,
right?
Like, do you feel like you canrelate to me more equal to or
less than uh one of your combatbuddies, you know?
But then if he's your buddy fromcombat, you're obviously gonna
relate to him more because youhad that experience with him.
So there's too many variables, Iguess.

SPEAKER_00 (41:59):
I think there's a lot of things that we can talk
about in specifics, like whetherit's like dealing with the PXs
that were over there or just thefunny stuff like that that you
had to deal with.
Um but as far as like talking topeople that have not been there
before, no, I don't thinkthere's a whole lot of

(42:20):
differences um as far as mindsetand perspective overall.
Yeah.
You know, I've I've looked atsome of your content and you you
post on a like uh what I wouldsay is unapologetically, right?
Um and you're very authentic.
So I want to ask you something.
Has that ever cost you anything?

SPEAKER_01 (42:39):
Cost me anything?
Sure, it's cost me friendships.
I'm sure it has cost me I'm sureit's cost me something, right?
But at the end of the day, like,is that a friendship or a cost
that like truly mattered?
I I struggle because I feel likeI can help everybody.
I'm for everyone, but I need torealize I'm not.

(43:00):
I can't.
Not not that I can't help them,or even if I could help them,
some of them don't even want thehelp, as we talked about, right?
And I I think if anything, it itcosts me my sanity because I'm
trying to be there for everybodythe same way I show up for you.
I show up for everybody elsethat I meet.
There's a great saying I heardthat like treat everybody you
meet like they're the CEO,whether they're the janitor or

(43:22):
not.
And that's what I try to do.
I try to treat everybody the wayI want to be treated.
Now, what I have been realizinglately is how I said earlier, I
don't know how not to be J Mac.
So I don't know how to be mysarcastic asshole self anymore
without feeling bad, like ohfuck, I just caused trauma
because that's I'm just so stuckin this world.
So it it did cost me my sanityto a degree, but I'm also trying

(43:45):
to become a better version ofmyself.
So I don't I think that's a whatit be a green cost, that's a
positive, you know, I think it'sa positive loss.

SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
Yeah.
No, I just asked because I'veI've it's cost me.
Like it's cost me familymembers, it's cost me
friendships, just being honestand being authentic.
But like you said, if like Idon't want people around me to
be fake, and I don't want to befake towards them or pretend
that they their hair looks nicewhen you know it looks like

(44:17):
shit.
Like to be honest with you, likeif and it the same for me, like
I want people to be honest withme.
I don't want people to be fakewith me.
I want people to be honestbecause I'm used to that
criticism and I'm good with it,and I can take it and I can try
to get better at it or whateverit is.
But I just feel like sometimesthe authenticity and the

(44:38):
unapologetic approach sometimesit ends up costing those of us
with that type of personality,it cost us those relationships.
And I just wanted to see whatwhat you thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
We're on the same page, 100%.
I had that same experience, butI think the way we need to view
it, we need to shift it.
It's not a cost, bro.
You're saving yourself time,energy, and everything and
trauma or drama, right?
Because now they're no longer inyour life because they can't
handle the truth.
They don't want to betterthemselves, they don't want to

(45:08):
live to a standard that you'rewilling to accept.
And that's okay for both of usto understand because there's a
situation I'm in right now, kindof, where people around me, they
just like to drink.
But I understand if you cancontrol your drinking and it it
maybe it's like once a week, acouple times a week, but like
every day, every night, and thenlike issues are arising from it,

(45:32):
but like you don't want to hearhow you're flawed, but you're so
willing to point somebody elseout.
And that, and then when it comesto the family, there are some
times that it is very hard tolike be real and open.
And I I I try to choose my wordswisely.
I almost like going into ChatGPT, say, like, I want to tell
them to fuck around and findout, but it tells you a

(45:55):
professional version.
I try to find that professionalversion when I'm approaching
someone that's more important tome, like my parents, my brother,
my close friends, and thingslike that.
But I also feel like due to theway that I am, it's hard for me
to have consistent friendship.
I'm that friend that we're bestfriends, but like we may not
talk all the time.
We may not talk for a month, ayear, whatever.

(46:16):
But when we get back together,we start talking again, it's
like no time's lost.
And that makes me almost feellike I almost struggle with
that, where I feel like I'm,what's wrong with me?
Why can't I have a friend that Ihang out with every day?
But then it's like, do I reallywant somebody I have to hang out
with every day?
I got these kids and this wife Igotta hang out with every day.
I don't need to add to it.

SPEAKER_00 (46:35):
No, no, I think at the end of the day, I've always
told people that I have friendsthat I understand what their
left and right boundaries are,and I understand what their
ceilings are.
I think a lot of times peoplejust get disappointed and
frustrated because they expectcertain things out of people.
But I think for a good leader,it you have to be able to look

(46:59):
at someone, figure out what istheir left stake, what is their
right stake, what is theirceiling.
This is what I can expect out ofthem.
I have friends that have a heartof gold, um, but they're not the
type of friends that I wouldwant to start a business with.
You know, fight to the deathtype of marine, you know,
veterans, and and you know whatI mean?

(47:20):
And it's just one of thosethings where like you gotta know
and kind of compartmentalizelike what to expect out of each
friend that you surroundyourself with.
And I a lot of people get reallyfrustrated because they expect
certain things, but that's tome, that's how I kind of get to
know folks and then figure outlike this is the friend to have
a good time with, this is afriend to have a podcast with,

(47:42):
this is a friend to have abusiness with, like, so on and
so forth.
You it's good to have thatvariety of people out there.

SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
That's a skill I'm actively developing in, to be
honest.
Because for the longest time, Ialways wanted to share my
successes, my dreams, mypassions with everybody who
asked me, even the closestpeople.
I have learned the hard way timeand time and time again.
That's not what you do.
Or at least in my situation,it's not what I can do.
Because like I want to go to myparents and tell them, like, oh,

(48:10):
I'm so excited to do this, I'mso excited to do that.
And they hit me back with love,but their love is coming from
how scared they are, what theydon't know, and their concern of
me like falling on my face orgetting hurt.
Right.
So we have to be strategic onwho we share things with, right?
Like you feel like you couldpotentially share everything

(48:30):
with your partner, your wife,your husband, whatever.
And that's not always the caseeither, because they're not
perfect either.
So they may not be in the moodto hear it, and that could be
very discouraging for you.
Or they're just not the type ofperson that needs that that you
need to bounce that idea off of.
And learning who to share withhas been a challenge, but it is

(48:52):
showing me that I'm growing.

SPEAKER_00 (48:54):
Honestly, this conversation with you has been
sort of a therapy session forme.
I came into this conversationtoday hot.
Like I was like, had such a badweek, um, and feeling like I'm
not connected to really anythingor anybody, but just talking to
you and being able to hear yourexperiences, your side of
everything, it it's great tohave this connection.

(49:18):
And I'm and I I I had this lastweekend too with another uh
podcast guest that I had, Jenna.
And it, man, we've talkedforever, it seemed like even
after the podcast.
And it was it was refreshing.
I think we both walked away likefeeling better, you know.
And you and I live hundreds ofmiles away, but here we are
connecting and and talking aboutmentorship, uh, you know,

(49:39):
suicide prevention, all theseimportant, valuable things that
we have.
Taking it back to yourchildhood, man.
Who is your mentor?
Who who poured into you?
Well, first, Jenna, she'samazing.

SPEAKER_01 (49:51):
And second, you're not alone on this week being
trash or coming into thispodcast hot.
Like it got to the point where Iwas like, dude, honestly, I I
feel like I had a PTSD moment onHalloween and I could not shake
out of it the rest of the night.
And then I woke up yesterday andthat energy and all those
feelings and emotions were stillrunning in me, and I had no idea

(50:13):
I couldn't, I couldn't let itgo.
I was just mad.
And then today I was a littlemad still to the point where
like before this podcast, I waslike, dude, I need to lay down.
I don't want to, I don't want alife anymore.
So I laid down for a little bit.
And then now I'm on here and I'mtalking, my energy feels better,
I feel lighter, you know.
So I appreciate you.
So thank you for having metoday.
And I'm so grateful that Iforced myself to not cancel or

(50:37):
back out.

SPEAKER_00 (50:38):
Dude, I I mean, I I force myself all the time to do
stuff.
But just like a good exercise,just like going to jujitsu, man.
I was like, I feel like shit,I'm sore, I've got, you know, I
could just go home.
Man, after I'm done getting myass beat for about an hour, I
feel so much better.
And I'm like, God, I'm glad Icame.

(50:58):
Like I feel better now.

SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
And yeah, dude, usually the best workouts are
the ones you didn't even want togo to.
Yeah, 100%.
For sure.
100%.
Uh so who poured into me as achild?
This is a tough question becauseI don't remember a lot of my
childhood.
And but I'm just gonna go withmy dad.
Uh, I remember my dad is my not100% my dad, right?

(51:23):
He is the reason I ended upjoining the Marine Corps, even
though he told me no, don't doit.
You're not allowed to, blah,blah, blah, blah.
Right?
My dad was uh is now a retiredpolice officer.
So growing up, my dad was alwaysa cop.
I always wanted to fill hisshoes.
I have a picture of me at likefive to seven years old wearing
his uniform that's like superbaggy and hanging off me.
And I just always wanted toserve and be a cop.

(51:44):
And my dad would take me out tohave you ever heard of uh the
Lions Club?
No.
It's an organization within thecommunity that they receive
donations and they give back tothe community members.
Like one of the main events thatI remember always doing with my
dad was the pancake breakfast,where for like two or three

(52:05):
dollars, you can come and eat asmany pancakes and sausages as
you wanted, and just getting thecommunity together.
And so I think that's where myvolunteering and my my desire to
serve came from.

SPEAKER_00 (52:17):
Yeah, I have heard of the Lions Club now that you
mentioned it.
You talked about the pancake.
Uh yeah, dude.
I the was it as like a pancakebreakfast or something like
that?

SPEAKER_01 (52:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:26):
They also sell like the candy too, right?

SPEAKER_01 (52:28):
Yeah.
That's where I've seen itbefore.
And they would also like collectcollect glasses or give out
glasses.
I'm sure there's a I'm surewe're talking about this much of
what they do, but that's that'smy core memories of them.

SPEAKER_00 (52:40):
Yeah, me too.
I too.
I've got this dog.

SPEAKER_01 (52:43):
I also want to be honest and open and uh, dad, I'm
sorry if you hear this, but likeas great as my dad was, I still
have trauma and abandonmentissues because he works so much
to provide the great life thathe gave us.
My dad was always working.
So I was predominantly raised bymy mom, and I feel like that's
where I got I'm a little bitmore emotional than most men
should be, right?

(53:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, so look that's how Istarted the podcast is that like
I had a great childhood, but Istill got fucked up from it.
That's a great example.
My dad did his best, he was outthere working.
I comprehend and I understandthat, but the feelings that him
not being around or him sleepingor being at work at the hours
that I'm up still cause someissues.

SPEAKER_00 (53:26):
Yeah.
I I I hear your kids in thebackground over there playing,
and I've got this, I've got thisgolden doodle right here that's
uh seeking seeking my attentionas well.
I'm over here petting him andstuff, and he just can't can't
get enough of it, man.
I've it's it's funny how we havelike so many things that we
juggle from like fatherhood towork and just taking care of

(53:47):
family and everything like that.
And here we are today, likestill doing these podcasts and
everything.
And it's been so awesome to talkto you, man.
And I just want to ask you,legacy-wise, what does it mean
to you in practice?
Like, not theory.
Legacy and practice.
Can you break that down Barneystyle for me?
Like, legacy-wise, like what doyou want to be known as?

(54:10):
I I always tell people that yourlast chapter is not what just
happened.
Like, your last chapter is likethis is not over with.
So, J Mock Podcast, like, wheredo you want it to go in the next
like five, 10 years or so?

SPEAKER_01 (54:22):
Yo, so J Mac Podcast is gonna go Joe Rogan Who,
right?
I'm gonna be the best podcastthere is out there, and I'm
going to pass on nothing butgenerational wealth to my
children.
But I just want to be someonethat is recognized that for
giving back.

(54:42):
I want them, I want the mylegacy to be like, man, he helps
so many people, and I want to beable to stay humble even when
I'm at the very top of my game.
I want to be this version of mewhen I'm at the top.

SPEAKER_00 (54:56):
I think that's that's rich.
I mean, that right there is thatmakes you a billionaire,
honestly, man.
To be known as someone that gaveback their entire lives and
tried to make their community,their family, their friends
better, you can't ask for morethan that, man.
And I feel your passion justtalking to you.
I mean, you wouldn't get upevery day, sacrifice time like

(55:17):
this to get on here, record, putyourself out there if you didn't
give a shit.
And man, it's it's been anabsolute pleasure talking to
you.
And if this was the lastconversation, if this was the
last thing that anyone heardfrom you, what's your message?
What would be your message toeveryone?

SPEAKER_01 (55:33):
Yo, you're not alone.
We all have our struggles.
And I mean that in like notwhere suck it up, you're not
alone.
I mean it like open up, reachout, go to therapy, get the
help, start the business, startbettering your life in the ways
you've always dreamed of, butyou you haven't yet.
Take that leap of faith andbelieve in yourself.

(55:55):
You're worthy and you'redeserving.

SPEAKER_00 (55:57):
That's huge, man.
Do you uh sponsor with anyoneelse that helps you out with
that message?
Do I have sponsors?
Yeah, do you have any sponsorslike uh I just the reason I
asked is because I just talkedto QRFD and they're a suicide uh
prevention uh nonprofitorganization.
Are you sponsored with anyonelike them?

SPEAKER_01 (56:18):
I am sponsored by Total Roofing and Construction.
They do construction out ofNorthwest Indiana and Illinois,
but I have not collaborated withanother veteran suicide
organization to that degree yet.
I've been talking to QRF up fora while now, uh been trying to
get them out to my events, andsoon we'll we'll cross paths as
well.

(56:38):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
Was there anything else in thispodcast you'd like me to mention
before we wrap it up?
Yeah, go to JMACPodcast.org orfind me on all social media at J
Mac Podcast.
But before we wrap it up, Ishould have did this in the very
beginning, but how are youdoing?
We talked about it briefly, buthow are you really doing?

SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
Not good.
Not good, man.
I'm lately I've been reallyburned out quite a bit.
Yeah, just conversations likethis help, to be honest with
you.

SPEAKER_01 (57:09):
You see how you thought like not good and you
were about to tell me more, butyou chose not to?
You need to start going thatextra mile and sharing that
because you're gonna give otherpeople who listen to you and
look up to you the opportunityand freedom to speak about their
challenges.
The one of the things about mypodcast is, right, like, oh man,
he's such a badass.

(57:30):
He he's a prior service, nowhe's in law enforcement, he
doesn't have any struggles, hejust handles life, he's a
badass.
But then you come on my podcastand we have these deep
conversations and you open upand you talk about your
challenging childhood, yourmilitary troubles, your coping
mechanisms that were unhealthy,and now the healthy ones that
you're doing.

(57:51):
And it gives people the chanceto look at you like, oh fuck,
man, like he does struggle.
He is just like me, but this ishow he gets over it.
We can learn from everybody.
You could sit here and tell menothing but negativity, and I
can learn from that because Ican relate to something in there
and pull that nugget straightout of my life as well.
Just like us sitting heretalking positive to one another,

(58:12):
we could take that positivityfrom each other and implement it
in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 (58:16):
Yeah, I think I'm just still processing, trying to
figure out what's going on.
Uh, like I said, we had a recentuh fam member that passed away
and we turned over the her keysto her apartment after she lived
there for 40 years.
Um It's been a lot of ups anddowns, man.
I mean, watching Dodgers winlast night was a positive.

(58:39):
Celebrating my daughter'scelebrating my daughter's sixth
birthday.
So it's it's like this, bro.
It's like, I don't know.
Like, I'm just like, let's waittill Monday, Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 (58:51):
I think I think we also got to recognize that's
part of life, right?
Like, as much as we want it tobe baseline and flat, right?
That's not living.
That's not reality.
We have our ups and downs.
And the part of growth and andbeing mental health forward and
being aware is pulling ourselvesback sooner each time we allow
ourselves to go down, or evenwhen we're so high and we could

(59:12):
take on the world, we got tocatch ourselves and realize
that's not reality and bringourselves back down to that
baseline.
So the faster we can pullourselves up or back down to
that baseline means we'regrowing, we're living and
thriving.
So don't be too hard onyourself.
But don't hold it all in either.

SPEAKER_00 (59:28):
I guess for me, it's uh, you know, I really respect
the fact that you I don't knowif normalize, baseline, whatever
you want to say.
I I respect the fact that youare open to talking about it and
normalizing not being okay.
Because it's okay to not be okaysometimes.
Um and to talk about it and tojust simply talk about it and

(59:51):
just know where you're at.

SPEAKER_01 (59:53):
I think I do it because I'm trying to justify it
for myself.
I'm trying to make it okay formyself to be this way.
So now if I preach it toeveryone else, we can connect on
that level.
And the more that I preach it tosomeone else, the more we
connect.
There's very few, and I don'teven I can't right now in this
moment, I can't even think ofanybody that like I had this
deep conversation with thatcaused us to go the opposite

(01:00:15):
way.
In return, it usually solidifiesour our friendship, our
relationship, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:19):
Yeah.
No, I agree a hundred percent,man.
I agree a hundred percent.
I think this conversation iswhat I needed because I've been
I've been really frustrated thelast few days, man.
Just kind of masking it, goingthrough it.
Grateful and thankful that wegot over a lot of things.
Um, but I'm looking forward tothis week and just seeing where
we're at, you know, this timenext week.
I think that it's just it's justa tumultuous time for me right

(01:00:42):
now with everything going on.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:44):
So And I want to relate to you on that because,
like I said, this week has beenhard for me.
And when I was laying downtrying to take a nap before this
episode, I had to force myselfnot to have those dark thoughts.
Where I would start thinking oflike, oh, a gun.
And I'm like, oh, well, I don'tknow where this is going, but I
don't want to find out.
So I wouldn't allow myself tothink that way, right?

(01:01:06):
Because I know where it's goingto lead.
And I don't want to have thosethoughts, nor do I want to feel
that way.
I want to be in charge.
I want to get myself back incharge of my own life before I
allow my mind to have thosethoughts.
And the wildest thing that I'vebeen learning is that we are not
our thoughts.
And that's so crazy.
So, like, who the fuck's in mybrain thinking then, right?
But it's up to us to choose.

(01:01:26):
And everything we do in life isa choice, whether we realize it
or not.
We're choosing to wake up and bemiserable and stressed out, or
we could put in the work evenwhen it's fucking hard and we
just want to give up.
When you put in the work then,that's when the biggest growth
is coming.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:41):
Yeah.
Amen.
Man, I'm so impressed with thisconversation.
Actually, it it's you lighten mymood, and I really appreciate
you talking to me today, Josh.
I can't tell you how much youknow it it means to me for you
to show up and sharing yourjourney, your mindset with
everyone that's listening in myaudience.
Um, make sure you follow Joshuaon Instagram, YouTube, J Mock

(01:02:03):
Podcast.
You're also on all the otheraudios, right?
The Spotifies and everythingelse.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:08):
Correct.
All under J Mac Podcast.
And honestly, it's been mypleasure to talk to you.
And don't fucking wait till weare on another podcast to reach
out to have a conversation likethis.
I'm down to talk like this allthe time.
And I'd like to invite you outDecember 28th through 31st, if
you're free.
Come out to Lichfield Park,Arizona.

(01:02:29):
There's a collegiate golftournament called the Patriot
All America where the golfersare carrying a fallen service
member's name inscribed on thebag in essence giving them their
final tour of duty.
But there's a veteran villagewith a hiring event.
I'll be doing two interviews aday out there.
It'd be a great place to.
We're not we're only like fouror five hours away, so it's not
a far escape, uh, right?

(01:02:51):
But it's still a way to get outand be around veteran
individuals.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:55):
Yeah, I have a cousin that lives out there.
So yeah.
Perfect.
All right, folks.
Until next time, as always, Iwant you to stay tuned, stay
focused, and stay motivated.
Warriors, fall out.