Reclaiming Your Vitality: The Truth About Testosterone Therapy with Ultimate Male Clinic

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Struggling with low energy, poor sleep, or diminishing physical performance? You're not alone. In this eye-opening conversation, I sit down with Matt Schaefer, a former Division I football player turned medical provider, and Yuan, the clinical manager at Ultimate Male Clinic, to unpack the realities of testosterone replacement therapy and modern approaches to men's health.

Matt brings a unique perspective, drawing from his background as an athlete, paramedic, and now a healthcare provider. This real-world experience allows him to connect authentically with clients—particularly military members, first responders, and blue-collar professionals who make up the majority of Ultimate Male's clientele. These high-stress occupations often lead to hormone imbalances that can significantly impact quality of life.

The discussion dismantles common misconceptions about testosterone therapy. Contrary to persistent myths, Matt cites recent research showing no increased cardiovascular risks with properly managed TRT. He explains how the clinic's comprehensive testing protocol ensures safety while optimizing results. The typical patient journey includes initial consultation, thorough blood work, personalized treatment planning, and regular follow-ups to monitor progress.

Perhaps most fascinating are the quality-of-life improvements reported by patients. Enhanced sleep quality is typically the first noticeable benefit, followed by increased energy, improved recovery, better mood, and renewed confidence. For veterans and first responders dealing with PTSD or TBI, hormone optimization can help regulate stress hormones and neurotransmitters disrupted by trauma.

Beyond traditional injections, the conversation explores alternative delivery methods including creams, subcutaneous pellets lasting 4-6 months, and newer oral medications. The clinic also addresses related concerns like hair loss, erectile dysfunction, and weight management through evidence-based approaches.

Whether you're experiencing symptoms of low testosterone or simply curious about optimizing your long-term health, this conversation provides valuable insights into how hormone therapy is transforming men's wellness. Ready to learn if these approaches might benefit you? Ultimate Male offers personalized consultations at their West Hollywood, San Gabriel, and Downey locations.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Morning Formation health and
performance.
And today I'm joined with twospecial guests from Ultimate
Male Matt Schaefer, a former Calfootball standout with a deep
understanding of athleticperformance, and Ewan, the
clinical manager over atUltimate Male, who keeps the
operation running smoothly andensures every client experience

(00:39):
is top tier.
Together, they're helping men,especially those in high stress
careers like the military andlaw enforcement optimize their
health and regain vitality andstay in the fight even longer.
So, gentlemen, thank you forjoining me on the Morning
Formation today.
Let's jump into it.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Sounds good, thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
How was your day today, fellas?
Did you enjoy the 100-degreeweather out here in LA?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Oh yeah, it's so hot.
We got so many cancellationstodayations today, actually
because of the weather.
People are just not standing inthe weather, well.
But I'd like to add that ourclinic is actually really
comfortable.
It's beautiful and clean.
It's an enjoyable experiencefor everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yes, I can attest to that.
They do have a really nice ACunit there, speaking of which.
So, matt, since you're talkingabout the hot weather, let's
talk about your days when youwere on the gridiron.
How does your background beinga former D1 athlete play in the
role of what you're currentlydoing with Ultimate Male?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I don't think anyone's ever asked me that
before.
So I went to UC Berkeley andplayed football up there.
I started off as an offensivelineman but then transitioned
into a tight end.
Just obviously.
The physical requirements, themental demands, I know exactly
what it takes to, like you said,thrive under pressure, and
being a D1 college athletereally helped me to understand

(01:54):
the importance of team, theteamwork, and I've used that
knowledge to kind of propel mycareer forward.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, that's really interesting because I think that
when it comes to differentpositions that you do growing up
through life, I think the D1athlete is probably the apex
position, because you guys areliterally top performers from
all over the country.
You're going against other topperformers from all over the
country, so I give a lot of theD1 athletes major kudos for

(02:24):
managing the education side ofit, but then also managing the
side of staying on the field.
So that's, that's huge.
I think people can relate tothat, the people that you serve
today, wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, I mean a hundred percent.
You know just, you make itsound like this giant thing.
I was just a big guy that wasgood at a sport.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
You're too.
You know what I mean.
Like you're, you're.
You're too humble, bro, I meancause I played football in high
school and there's no way Iwould have been able to play at
that level.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, I mean I was pretty heavily recruited, for
sure.
I was long beach, press, presstelegram, uh, like all American
whatever got recruited heavilyby schools all over the country,
um, back in the day.
So I graduated high school in99.
And back in the day the schoolswould fly you out there if they
were recruiting you and youcould go on like five official
visits.
I went to Oregon, texas, a&m,colorado, berkeley and Arizona

(03:16):
State, right, and my parentsbasically told me that I would
be an idiot for not going toBerkeley and that's how I ended
up there.
Yeah, so I was there from 99 to04.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, they were looking out for the academic
side of everything, right, sonot so much.
They're not really known.
I mean, I guess they are kindof known for football, but but
yeah, man, we went one in 11, myfirst year.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
we were not known for football at the time.
We beat Rutgers no-transcript.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yes, definitely.
Basically made to help men inthriving, giving them hormone
replacement therapy.
Until it reaches this stagewhere it takes care of
preventative health lab tests,weight loss and everything that
we do for the men and the organsthat specifically are for the
men.
I think it's evolved in a waywhere we can service more people
and give them the best carethat they deserve.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, ultimate male, from what I've seen over the
years, is really cutting edge.
You guys seem to be like at theforefront of the latest and
greatest.
What would you say and eitherone of you can actually take
this question what would you saywould be the difference between
ultimate male versus othermen's clinics?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, there's a couple of things actually, I
think, having to deal with likereal people that have lived real
lives I'm not some nerdy doctorthat, you know, just went
through high school and gotstraight A's and then went to
college and didn't have anyfriends and just studied and has
never had a real job and thengotten to medical school and
just studied and didn't have anyreal friends, they just had
their little study groups.
And then they go throughresidency and they get shit on,

(05:08):
you know, and they come out andthey're just completely out of
touch with people.
And not to say that there's notgreat doctors obviously there's
wonderful doctors in the world,right but I mean we're just
real people, you know, likewe've real, we've lived real
lives and had real experiences.
And I think that's kind of whatsets us apart is that we can
relate to people.
You know, like half of ourclients, maybe three quarters of
our clients, are military guys,firefighters, police officers

(05:29):
and like blue collar guysplumbers, electricians, linemen,
dock workers, all that kind ofstuff.
You know, that's kind of thefirst thing that sets us apart.
Secondly, is our likecomprehensive suite of services,
right.
So it's not just, you know, notjust like hormone optimization
and erectile dysfunction, but wealso do like Botox filler and
we do a lot of hormoneoptimization for women.

(05:50):
We do microneedling, lasertherapy, medically managed
weight loss.
We have a whole bunch of stuffthat we do and that's really
what sets us apart.
You know, there's a ton ofthese TRT clinics around or
these like online operations,where you don't know where
you're getting your medicationfrom.
It's coming from some shadypharmacy in Florida and you
don't know if you're ever goingto get your medication on time.
We're real people.
You just come into the clinic,you say hello and we'll give you

(06:10):
everything that you need andtake care of you along the way.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm so glad you said that, because that's really
important to me, that I'm notgetting my stuff through the
mail but I'm actually walking in, I can ask the dumb questions
and I can get answers right thenand there, versus like having
to email someone.
I think that's that's huge whenit comes, and then for folks
being able to just relate.
Like you said, matt, you're aformer Division One athlete, so

(06:35):
like you know what.
And then also I didn't evenmention that, but you would you
mind covering a little bit aboutsome of your experiences
working as a medic as well?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah.
So when I when I left um, I hadno idea what I wanted to do.
Um, one of my best friends is afireman Uh, he's a couple of
years older than me and uh, youknow, I was working some job
that I couldn't stand.
And he asked um, you know whatI was doing with my, my life?
And at the time I had no idea.
Um, he said why don't you go toEMT school?
And so I was probably 22, 23 atthe time and I said sure, why

(07:07):
not?
I actually followed up with himand went to EMT school and then
graduated and was an EMT for acouple of years.
I worked as a ER tech at UCLASanta Monica Hospital for a few
years and then went back toparamedic school.
I went to paramedic school atUCLA and I was a paramedic for

(07:28):
like 10 years before I went backto PA school.
So I've kind of lived a wholebunch of different lives
actually.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
That's super interesting, man, because, I
mean, the fact is, is like yourwhole journey and your career
track.
It falls right in line withyour customers being able to
relate to you and probablyfeeling a little bit more
comfortable about where you'vebeen and what you've done before
.
And I think that's what makesUltimate Male different than
other TRT businesses out there,you know, and other you know,

(07:56):
health services out there andthings like that.
But and either one of you guyscan answer this question but
what core services does UltimateMel offer specifically for men
over 30 or 40 years old?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Definitely our testosterone replacement therapy
, definitely recommended foranyone over 35 years old to at
least get checked out, see wheretheir levels at what might be
affecting their lives, like lossof sleep, loss of libido,
getting no motivation easier tobuild fat instead of muscle.
Testosterone could really helpa lot of men and we've seen it

(08:28):
with our own eyes.
We've diagnosed, probably likehundreds of men now with low
testosterone and them on theirjourney.
We do frequent lab tests,though not unlike other clinics
to get on our past topic, it'snot like it's not.
It's not like other onlineclinics or even clinics around
los angeles that doesn't reallycare about their patients.

(08:50):
We do regular and routinefollow-up, lab works and the
follow-up with the patients viamessage, have them come back to
do consultations, discussionswith us so they feel cared and
we actually care about them.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
I think that's what set us apart from all the other
clinics out there yeah, I cantell you like even I've been
with ultimate male for a whilenow and I've always gotten that
personal touch, like I've alwaysbeen comfortable with walking
in there and asking questions,no matter how dumb they are or
whatever.
And for folks out there thatare concerned about the whole
like TRT thing and like some ofthe disadvantages that come to

(09:28):
it, you know, like with the redblood cells, all that stuff like
that, what, how do you guyscounter that?
Like, what do you do to helpout folks that want to stay
balanced but are also looking toimprove their lives?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
This is starting to sound like an infomercial for
ultimate male.
But yeah, no, it is.
Yeah, totally no.
I yeah, no, it is.
Yeah, totally no.
I mean testosterone it's awonderful medicine, right, like,
but it's a medicine and youknow some.
All medicines have potentialside effects that you need to be
aware of.
And I also want to clarify like, testosterone is not a magic
bullet.
It's not going to solveeveryone's problems.
You know it will probably giveyou some more energy and allow

(09:58):
you to sleep a little bit better, and you know regulate, you
know brain, likeneurotransmitters and and.
But if you just sit on thecouch and eat Doritos and inject
testosterone, like, you mightfeel a little bit better,
honestly, but you're not goingto have any of those body
composition changes that a lotof people are looking for.
You might get a littleincreased sex drive, but you're
probably not going to get laidall that often.
But no, yeah.

(10:19):
So testosterone is a,testosterone is a.
You know it's a wonderfulmedicine.
I think the the two big concernsthat I really have with it is
the decrease in testicularefficiency or functioning while
you're on testosterone, and thenthe increase in red blood cell
production, right,erythrocytosis, um, you know,
the normal range fortestosterone is 300 to a
thousand milligrams perdeciliter.
All we do is we bring guys upto the top quarter of the um of

(10:41):
the normal range, right?
So when men are like 18, like18, 19, 20 years old, we're kind
of all functioning at a veryhigh level.
Our testicles are functioningat like a very high level and as
we get older, just likeanything, our testicles start to
break down over time, right,they become less efficient.
There's a threshold that everyman will cross, whether that's
30 years old or 45 or 50 or 60,whatever, it doesn't really

(11:02):
matter.
There's this threshold thatevery man will cross and once
they cross that, they becomesymptomatic to those low
testosterone levels, right?
So the things that we'relooking for are going to be like
decreased energy, decreasedlibido, you know.
Increased fat retention,decreased muscle mass or
inability to put on muscle atthe gym, you know.
Poor sleep quality, poorerections, less morning wood.

(11:24):
I mean all those things aresigns of, you know, of decreased
testosterone levels.
And if those are, you know, ifyou're experiencing those like,
go get it checked out, becauseit really can make a difference,
you know.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, I mean, I guess at the end of the day we are,
we are, we are trying to capturethose, those clips that are
going to make sure that we putultimate melanin in a great
light.
But I'm just generally curioustoo about a lot of these stuff,
because some of this stuff Ihaven't really asked before but
I've kind of done my ownresearch on and when it comes to
getting getting tested, ifsomebody walks through your

(11:53):
doors and they don't know, likewhere they're at, like with
their own levels, what's thatnew first time experience going
to be like for that person?

Speaker 3 (12:03):
so firsttime patients will get them in for a free
consultation.
Essentially, during thatconsultation, matt, our provider
, will go through how exactlytestosterone works, everything
in detail, and what the sideeffect profiles are, what you
can expect and some solutionsfor that, specifically for like
lowering testicular function, wehave stuff like HCG Pregnol to

(12:26):
counter that, and so there aremany solutions essentially for
patients that wanted to get care.
But to get to the topic, we getthem in for consultations, draw
their blood on site if theyagree to it, and we do send our
labs to a third party lab to getthem tested to avoid conflict
of interest.
After that, we'll have themcome back for a review.

(12:47):
Labs Basically go over the labtest.
We test it in detail, one byone.
We test for testosterone, psalevel, your CBC and estrogen
level.
So that's what we typically dofor pre-screening testosterone.
Essentially, matt will go overeverything in detail and then
decide with you if testosteroneis a good option for you and if

(13:08):
you are a good candidate as well.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll just sit down and have aconversation, right, and I'll
ask you about you know yourhistory, what kind of symptoms
are you experiencing?
You know what medical problemsyou have, any allergies to
medication, the basic stuff,right, and then kind of run
through the spiel that I justtold you.
You know, like the normal rangeof testosterone is 300 to a
thousand and like what, you knowwhat we, what we're trying to
do?
We're just trying to make guysfeel like they're 18, 19 years

(13:33):
old again, within reason, right,like that's the whole idea
behind this.
You know it's.
It's about, um, justfunctioning at a higher level.
When our dads were our age, youknow, in their 40s and 50s, they
were getting fat and slow, youknow, and they just looked older
, right, and like we don't haveto deal with that anymore.
We've got a solution for thatnow and it's safe.
I mean, testosterone has beenaround for 100 years, right,
it's safe if done well, right,it's not that there's not

(13:56):
potential you know downsides toit Obviously there are but it's
a great solution for a lot ofguys, especially like military
guys, especially like firstresponders, firemen, anybody
that uses their body for aliving.
You know, you can befunctioning at a high level into
your 60s and 70s.
You know, that was never thecase before.
I'm so happy this has kind ofgone mainstream, you know, and

(14:18):
in reality too, it also helpsyou sleep, right, oh, 100%.
Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you mystory.
I'm on testosterone.
I've been on testosterone forlike three years now.
Um, the way that it kind ofworks is like after, if we
decide collaboratively that it'sa good idea to start
testosterone, after we've had aconversation, we've done your
blood work right, like we thinkit's a safe option for you, um,

(14:38):
you know, a lot of times, um, ifI don't think it's a safe
option, I'll have you go getchecked out by urology or
cardiology or whatever the casemay be your primary care
provider, before you come backin.
I'm not going to just putpeople on testosterone just
because right, like that's justthat's not good medicine.
But my personal experience was Ihad, you know, really low
testosterone levels.
When I first tested, like threeyears ago, I was at like 250 or

(15:09):
something like that, which, asa 40 year old dude, that's like
that's pretty low, right, and.
And so I was like shit, I needto hop on Right.
So I hopped on and I didn'tnotice anything for like the
first seven, eight, kind of nineweeks, and this is seems to be
like the average experience islike people don't really notice
much for the first like seven,eight, nine weeks, and then
there's kind of this gradualon-ramping of where they start
to feel better.
For me it was my sleep.
My sleep improved likedrastically.
I had I didn't even realize Iwas sleeping that poorly but,
like my wife noticed, first shewas like dude, are you sick or

(15:30):
something, cause you're sleepingso much longer and so much
deeper.
And I was like, no, actually Ifeel great, you know, and it
didn't dawn on me that that wasthe testosterone that was
causing that.
But then, you know, I noticedincreased energy levels and I
can't speak to like if that wasbecause I was getting better
sleep or if there's some otherlike physiologic mechanism
that's occurring, like acortisol suppression mechanism
or some you know some otherpathway, but but yeah, my energy

(15:52):
was increased and my motivation.
And then, like a week later, solike around the nine or 10 week
mark, my libido went throughthe roof, right, and that's when
I was like shit, I know what'sgoing on here, right.
And so this is the prettypretty average story.
I mean, everyone's a little bitdifferent, but this is the
pretty average story is that,like you know, around the 10
week mark is where it kind ofreally kicks on.
You'll go through this like whatwe call a honeymoon period or a

(16:13):
Superman period for three orfour months where you feel great
.
You know it's not like a high,but you'll feel super confident.
You'll be sleeping great,you'll feel strong at the gym.
Your recovery is crazy.
You'll have a great sex drive,you know, and that that whole
thing lasts for like three orfour months, right, and then,
about like the four, four orfive month mark, you kind of
taper off, right.

(16:34):
It like it becomes your bodybecomes tolerant to it.
It just becomes like natural toyou.
The good thing is that youremember before how you felt and
you realize now that you likefeel way better.
You know you're still gettingthe all the benefits of
testosterone, you're stillgetting the recovery, you're
still getting increased bonedensity, you're still getting
the sex drive right.
But it just feels normal to you.
It's just your new umday-to-day life right, like when

(16:57):
guys come in their baselinesdown here, right, and if at like
the four or five month marktheir, their baseline's not's
not up here, like there's noreason to do this.
You know it's, it's, it's justcosting money for no reason,
like you're not getting anybenefit for you know for it.
And so like that's why we, we,we talk all the time and we run
labs.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Have you?
Have you turned people awaybefore Because you're like
you're fine?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
You're where you we have to follow.
You know, and if people, youknow, if people are coming in
like I get a lot of, a lot ofpeople that are coming in for
like aesthetic reasons.
Right Like, they just want tolook good in the gym or look
good naked or whatever.
Right Like, and if you knowthey'll come in at six, 700 and
it doesn't make sense to startthem Like, it's just not safe,
especially younger guys thatdon't have kids yet, that want

(17:49):
kids in the future.
You know that's a huge thingfor me.
I'm not going to start somebodylike that.
But you know, with response,with respect to, like, the first
responders and the militaryguys, a ton of these guys we
we've seen over the you knowover the years that these guys
are coming in with really lowtestosterone levels, which is
kind of the opposite of whatyou'd expect.
Right Like, you expect theselike really masculine dudes to
have high testosterone levels.

(18:09):
But I mean, the reality is that, like, if you're doing shift
work, right Like, if you've gotbrain, if you've got like brain
injury, a TBI or anything likethat, like your, your
hypothalamus pituitary gonadalaxis is going to be all fucked
up.
Right Like, your testosteronelevels are going to be in the
tank, right.
You're probably on too much.
You're probably drinking toomuch, right, or smoking too much

(18:29):
weed, or whatever the case maybe, your diet's probably shit,
like.
Your testosterone levels aregoing to be really low, and
that's where this like reallycan help people.
You know, I think that's a hugebenefit to it.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
That's what I love about talking to you, because
you you go in depth, on on,actually explaining the topics
but then also bringing it downto a level where, like, I can
understand what you're saying,cause I've had people talk over
my head before about this kindof stuff and I'm like what, what
did you just say?
So it's it's.
It's nice to actually hear andunderstand and acknowledge and

(19:02):
keep up with the conversation,because when you get into
medicine sometimes that's not myforte.
Um, you mentioned earlier thatif you get on trt and then you
decide to just lay around andeat doritos, like, that's not
really going to help you allthat much.
But is there?
Do you guys offer any?
Do you guys partner with anyoneto help with nutrition as well,

(19:22):
or do you guys do that too?

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yes, actually we do.
We do have a nutrition partnerand a private trainer, the full
gym in Monrovia and, I believe,Arcadia.
So if patients want to getpersonalized training,
personalized nutrition or evenphysical therapy, we have
partners for that.
So basically, we're a one-stopshop for anyone that comes in
for physical therapy.
Basically, we're a one-stopshop for anyone that comes in

(19:46):
for physical therapy peptides,testosterone, men's health, ED
treatments anything that wouldbenefit their lives.
We basically do it here.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, I mean, I also work at an emergency department,
right, so I have access to someof the top doctors in Los
Angeles.
I use urologists, cardiologists, all the time.
So if guys come in and there issome like extenuating
circumstance, like benignprosthetic hypertrophy, like bph
or enlarged prostate, or youknow they've got peyronie's
disease, something that we can'thandle in the clinic right then
.
Or or concern for like prostatecancer, for example, like I can

(20:16):
give you the names and contactinformation of some incredible
doctors you know, and that's a,that's a.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
You know I I'm glad that you guys are debunking a
lot of the you know myths andyou're handling a lot of the
frequently asked questions rightnow.
And one of the things that Iknow a lot of people are
concerned about is, like theirjob, Like they have to have,
they have to keep it legal, Likeyou can go buy steroids, TRT,
all that stuff on the street ifyou want.
But the thing is, if you got tokeep this legal, you guys offer

(20:46):
prescriptions, like actualwritten prescriptions, to where
they can take it into their workand they can say, look, I'm on
this prescription right now.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, I mean you can travel with it anywhere in the
world.
It's just like high bloodpressure medication or diabetes
medication.
It's a prescribed substance,MMPI, prescribed medicine, right
, I prescribe medicine.
Right, it's a controlledsubstance, schedule three
controlled drugs.
So you better have thatprescription bottle with you,
Right?
I've talked to a bunch of cops,police officers that I work
with or that you know are some,some of our patients, and you
know, if they find a bottle oftestosterone like if they pull

(21:14):
you over and just instantly finda bottle of testosterone
they're sure as shit going tolook, you know, start looking a
little closer, Right?
So, but if you've got thatprescription, it's just like any
other medication.
You can get on a plane and flyanywhere in the world with it.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
We always prescribe them with the orange pill bottle
, so it looks it is prescribedmedicine.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Right yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
So always keep that in the bottle.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
And you know you just mentioned law enforcement first
responders, so might sound likea dumb question, but people out
there are asking the question,like you know.
Is TRT safe for guys whocurrently work or have been in
high stress roles like combat orlike changing shift work, like
law enforcement or even military, if you've been deployed during
war?

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it.
I don't think it's any questionthat it's like a huge benefit
to guys like that.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
People hear like roid rage and things like that.
Like, is that a real thing?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
No, what testosterone seems to do is increase risk
taking behavior At least that'swhat the data shows.
But, like in reality, like theclinical day to day experience
is, it makes you more of who youalready are.
Right, If you're an asshole,it's going to make you a bigger
asshole.
If you're a happy person, it'sgoing to make you a bigger
asshole.
If you're a happy person, it'sgoing to make you happier.
But it's subtle.
It's not these things whereyou're going to just all of a

(22:26):
sudden start beating you knowpeople with a baseball bat
because you know they cut youoff in traffic or whatever.
Right, it doesn't work likethat.
No, it doesn't change yourpersonality, like fundamentally
who you are.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
The only thing that can really change that is
therapy.
The your inner demons and youhandling those things.
And, matt, you wouldn'tprobably make a great therapist.
So I don't know if you want toconsider going down that route
too, but I'm just kidding, no.
But so overall I mean youmentioned it earlier A lot of
our military members, firstresponders, do suffer from PTSD,
depression, burnout.

(22:56):
How does hormones optimizehandling those different issues
that a lot of our firstresponders have?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I mean you know anybody with like a TBI or has
burnout or PTSD or whatever.
I mean they've also got.
They've obviously got likecortisol blunting, right, where
the the, the cortisol is astress hormone and it's kind of
a a bad word and like the normal, you know, in the normal
parlance and just the way thatpeople talk.

(23:23):
But it's not, it's a necessaryhormone, right, and it comes out
in the evening and it allowsyou to relax and get ready for
bed.
If you have blunted cortisolwhich is common with people that
do high-stress work,high-stress jobs or have ever
been in high-stress situationsthat cortisol release is blunted

(23:45):
and testosterone or just youknow hormones in general help
regulate that cortisol suppressor that cortisol blunting.
It'll allow it to come backonline.
It also affects, likeneurotransmitters, you know, an
increase in dopamine andserotonin levels, all that stuff
that's necessary for just youknow your normal personality and
you know things that getchanged, you know, over time by

(24:07):
your work and your lifeexperiences.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Let's talk about like mental clarity.
How does it impact likereaction time, decision making
under pressure and things likethat?
Would you say that sleep wouldalso be related to that?
As far as helping people juststay, because I know for like me
, like when I was in themilitary, for example, like
having equipment on me, makingsure that I had all the right
equipment before I left the wirewas extremely important.

(24:31):
So staying in the game, notjust looking physically great,
but then also mental clarity,how does that play a role?

Speaker 2 (24:37):
in that I mean just obviously.
Just I keep saying obviously,sorry, it's a increased sleep,
man, like, uh, you knowincreased sleep, increased
energy levels, just, you knowmental focus, like again, it
goes back to likeneurotransmitters, it goes back
to your ability to get good,deep sleep even in high stress
environments.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, I guess the repair and recovery would be
extremely important, extremelyparamount, in that case, and one
of the things I talk about onthis podcast is survivability,
and that's really why I thinkit's great that you guys are on
the show today.
I think that everything youmentioned so far helps with both
mental and physicalsurvivability.
That you've heard, like peoplewalk through your doors and they

(25:15):
say like well, I don't, I'm notdoing it because of this or
that, and what are some of thoseconcerns and how would you like
to address those concerns?
I know you have to hear liketwo or three things over and
over and over again.
Would you mind sharing what,like what you've heard from some
of your new clients?

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Cardiovascular issues right,that's a huge one, you know.
I hear people say that liketestosterone is going to give me
a heart attack.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, like give me a stroke, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Or that testosterone is going to cause prostate
cancer.
That's another another realcommon one.
Or the testosterone If I starttestosterone like I'll never,
ever be able to have children,right?
That's another common one.
So, with respect to thecardiovascular stuff, there was
a huge trial that just came outcalled the traverse study I
don't know 2017, 2018, somethinglike that where they took like

(26:03):
5,000 people men and they putthem on testosterone, on TRT
doses, and then they took 5,000men as a control group and gave
them placebo and then theymonitored them for years and at
the end of the study they lookedat the number of like what they
call major adverse cardiacevents or MACEs, and there was
no increase in major adversecardiac events in the

(26:25):
testosterone group relative tothe control group, which was
huge, you know, because I thinkfor a long, long time, everyone
kind of assumed that thetestosterone caused at least LVH
or left ventricular hypertrophy, where, like the left ventricle
of your heart is a muscle right, and if your muscles grow like
there's concern that the heart'sgoing to grow also Everyone's
heard of like an enlarged heart,right, right, sounds like a

(26:47):
good thing, but unfortunately,what happens is the chamber.
The chamber gets smaller becausenot only does the tissue grow
out, but it grows in right, andso there's less blood to pump,
and so it ends up in end organdysfunction.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
That's a big deal.
I think a good point is testingin moderation, doing it in
moderation and the care ofdoctors, providers and who uses
routine lab work to check on.
If you are doing testosteronetoo much, we'll lower your dose.
If you're doing it too less,we'll increase your dose.
We're not trying to makebodybuilders at all.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
We're just trying to make normal people feel better
have you, have you guysexperienced that where you've
had clients come through thedoor and they're already like
completely ripped and they'relike yo, can you give us like
three?
To give me three vials, yes,yeah, all the time and we have
to turn them away.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Although we're a business, we're still working in
the medicine field.
We're still a clinic.
The end goal for us is to takecare of as much men as possible,
right, make them feel well,look well and just be well.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, your reputation is at play when you start doing
that sort of thing and youmight attract the wrong
clientele.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
I guess at that point right, so you really don't want
to open that, open that can ofworms and I I got like a family
and I got a mortgage and shitlike I can't afford to have my
medical license in jeopardy,just to like make a couple extra
hundred bucks.
You know, like it's just notworth it to me, yeah, right, and
it just doesn't make sense.
Like I mean, we can talk about,like you know, uh, our, our, uh
, and you know I don't want todo this because I'm like a, a

(28:18):
good hearted person or whatever,but no, it's like I'm I don't
want to do it because, like, Idon't want to lose my license.
You know what I mean.
Like, just realistically, youknow, I think there's another.
Going back to your questionearlier, like the one of the
misconceptions or, um, thingsthat I hear about about a lot is
these bodybuilders that arelike 35 and 40 years old that
are dying on stage right.

(28:39):
There's been a ton of them inthe last couple of years where
these like 35, 40, 45 year olddudes are just collapsing on
stage right and everyone's first.
You know, everyone just jumpsto testosterone and they go, hey
, this is causing heart attacksor whatever.
But I think, realistically, Imean I can't prove this, but my
pet theory is that their H and H, or their hemoglobin and
hematocrit levels climb upbecause, not only on

(29:01):
testosterone, but they're usinghigh doses of testosterone, plus
a ton of other testosteronederivatives and diuretics all
these things that that arecontributing, right, but like,
their blood ends up gettingreally, really thick and they're
not being managed well, right,which is another reason why you
want to have a clinic, do it.
Their blood ends up gettingreally, really thick and you can
just imagine, like if yourblood's super, super thick and
sludgy, like how easy it wouldbe to form a blood clot, and if

(29:24):
that blood clot like snaps offand it goes to your brain or to
your heart, to your lungs.
I mean, you're talking aboutscary shit.
You're talking about like aheart attack, a stroke, a
pulmonary embolus.
You know, instead of justbuying you know some hundred
dollar vial at gold's gym andjust being like, okay, I'm gonna
take you know 500 milligramstoday and I'll take 500

(29:45):
milligrams on thursday and justwho knows, let's see what
happens so what's?

Speaker 1 (29:50):
so just want to ask like, what's, what's that
management look like?
Like do they get blood testedevery three months, six months,
like what would be themaintenance to make sure that
people are staying balanced?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, so we do testing on initial visit.
So we do total testosterone, wedo free testosterone, we do a
CBC, a CMP, a comprehensivemetabolic profile, which is like
liver function, kidney function, gallbladder function,
electrolytes.
Sorry, just to clarify CBC islike all your red and white
blood cells, so we can manage orwatch your hemoglobin,
hematocrit levels, along witheverything else.
And then we do a prostatespecific antigen, which is like

(30:20):
the prostate blood test that wedo to make sure that you don't
have prostate cancer, right, orthere's any risk of prostate
cancer, I should say.
But we do, we do lab work onthe initial visit and then, if
we decide, again collaboratively, that it's like a good idea to
start you on testosterone, we'llgo ahead and like teach you how
to do the injections there, ifyou want to.
If you choose to do injections,if you're choosing to do creams

(30:42):
or gels, we'll show you how toapply.
If you, if you choose to do thepellets which is something else
that we can talk about um, thenwe'll, you know, we'll do them
for you in the office, um, orthere's even an oral
testosterone now, which is kindof interesting.
Each type has costs andbenefits to it.
So once we start you ontestosterone.
We'll let you run for 10 weekstwo and a half months and we

(31:02):
chose 10 weeks specificallybecause that's kind of when
testosterone starts to takeeffect, and so we can bring you
back in and have a conversationwith you and be like, hey, how
are you feeling?
Is this working for you?
Do we need to increase yourdose?
Do we need to decrease yourdose?
Do we need to adjust anything?
Do we need to add an estrogenblocker in?
Whatever, the case may be right.
And then if everything's cool,like if all the levels look good

(31:24):
and we're being safe and yourtestosterone is not too high and
your hemoglobin hematocritaren't too high, we'll let you
run for another six months.
We start doing labs every sixmonths thereafter.
If there is a problem, if yourestrogen is too high or if your
PSA is too high or yourhemoglobin hematocrit is too
high, whatever, we'll make acorrection and then let you run
for another 10 weeks and thenbring you back in and test you
again, right?
So, and then you know, ifeverything's stable at that

(31:47):
point, then we'll do it everysix months.
So yeah, it's just about goodoversight.
You know, good managementoversight.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, and I think it's nice to actually have a
working relationship withsomeone too, because I know some
places will send you off tolike a lab and they'll say, okay
, we'll just go to this lab andgo get blood tested and then
we'll get back to you orwhatever.
But the fact is I can come andsee you and say, hey, matt, you
know and have that relationshipwith you and know your
background and who you are andtrust you.

(32:13):
I think that's the key withwhat your business offers
Ultimate Male over others, whichI think is really key.
A lot of folks want to get intoit because of the whole recovery
side of it too.
I mean, there's getting injured, having to.
I know for me, I have my backissues, I have shoulder issues
and then I've got to go to worktomorrow.

(32:33):
I've trained Brazilianjiu-jitsu like three times a
week usually and I'm sore ashell and it's all about pain
management at this point in mylife because I've done things
like gone to Iraq and worn avest before and had to wear gun
belts, things like that, and, atany rate, the recovery.
So how can your services helpmen bounce back from years of

(32:55):
physical just wear and tear?
I mean?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
just hormone optimization, right, like,
that's kind of like one of themain benefits of testosterone is
that, um, it aids in recovery,right, sleep and recovery um,
you know, we all know that thatexperience where you've like
taken a couple weeks off the gymand you're like, shit, I gotta
go back and it's leg day.
Right, you do leg day and youhaven't lifted in a couple of
weeks, and then the day afterleg day you try and sit down on

(33:21):
the toilet, take a shit Like youcan't.
You can't like sit up, yeah,you can't get up, you can't
physically sit down.
Right, testosterone, like Idon't want to say it like
eliminates that, but itminimizes it, it helps to
mitigate that, right, like, ifyou can only do chest like once
a week or whatever, like yourrecovery is so much better that
you could do chest twice a week.
Or if you're on like apush-pull split or whatever the
case may be, you know you canjust do a lot more work, right,

(33:44):
going back to like the red bloodcell thing, like the hemoglobin
and the hematocrit, like it'skind of a double-edged sword
actually, because you know it'svery, very true that you're at
an increased risk for bloodclots.
At least that's what the commonthought is right now.
There's some interesting papersthat are kind of refuting that,
but we still clinically practice.
We have to manage elevatedhemoglobin hematocrit levels.

(34:05):
But it's a double-edged swordin that you've got more oxygen
carrying capacity, right, you'vegot more red blood cells.
It's just like EPO and LanceArmstrong.
That's.
The whole point of EPO is itproduces more red blood cells.
So you, you can startincreasing, you know, hemoglobin
, your oxygen carrying capacity.
You can do more work.
You don't get gassed as easily.
So if you're training orwhatever, like you can go longer
, you can go harder, you know.

(34:26):
That's the whole idea.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, so you can break through thresholds,
probably that you haven't beenable to add extra plates, or and
the recovery thing is huge forme because, like I said, I got
to go to work.
Like I train jujitsu, I trainwith 20-year-old kids,
25-year-old kids, and they'refull of just testosterone.
They're full of like nothingbut spunk and like just kick

(34:47):
your ass.
And so, for me, having torebound from those training
sessions with them, becausethey're always looking to go
after the old man you know andtry to prove something, and
that's huge for me, that's hugefor me, that's huge for me.
And Yuan, I wanted to ask youhow do you ensure the client's
experiences overall?
How do you ensure that theclient experience reflects the
clinic's values and highstandards?

Speaker 3 (35:08):
So we try to work with the patients, no matter on
your.
So we basically reach a mutualagreement with patients.
Right?
It's not our decision to putyou on testosterone.
It's a mutual agreement that weboth want to work on.
We set a goal for you or youset a goal that you want to
reach with us.
We give you the solution on howto do it clinically, safely and

(35:29):
a monitored way.
On the on top of that, we dooffer a bunch of payment plans,
very flexible.
You can do monthly installmentsupfront.
Each has their own perks andquirks.
They can even do like a 10-weekplans, which essentially have
them test it out, see how theywant it and if they want to move

(35:50):
on, we can move on to thelonger plan and something like
that.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
But yeah, our goal is to get you well and within the
reasonable budget that doesn'tbreak the bank I think, uh,
you've been the friendly facethat I've seen across the desk
for the last year or two and, uh, and anytime I've ever had any
concerns or anything like that,you've always been able to to
work with me on things and I Ireally appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
I think it should be noted that dude un runs the
clinic.
Man, like I could.
Like I could not do this jobwithout him.
Like this is a team in thetruest sense of the word.
Like I couldn't do it.
He carries that cell phone withhim 24 hours a day, right?
So when patients are calling atlike midnight or 3 am or
whatever, like you know, he'llget to it as soon as he possibly

(36:35):
can.
I'm going to take him up onthat.
People do all the time.
No, but he runs the damn clinic, you know, and like it's he's
literally indispensable.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
It's a good team.
I work on the business side, heworks on the medicine side, and
sometimes we have clashes hereand there.
We have clashes A lot ofclashes actually, on stuff that
we don't agree on.
And then we work, we work itout, we talk like as a team,
working so in the best interestof our patients and the clinic.
Yeah, I've definitely lost myshit a few times you know what,

(37:05):
though I'm?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
I'm glad you mentioned that because I was
working on a training staff nottoo long ago and on this
training staff we had a lot ofsome of the best of the best
when it comes to tactics andfirearms and combatives and
control tactics and things likethat.
We had some of the best, in myopinion, in the industry, and
there was oftentimes we wouldclose the door and we would have
at it and I said, look guys,after we were done figuring out,

(37:29):
sorting out whatever it was, Iwould tell him like this is a
good thing, because we give ashit like if we didn't care,
like if you think the, the AppleiPhone, was made in a room full
of yes, men, you're crazy.
It wasn't.
Like it was created in a roomfull of people that had passion
for creating something greater,and they did not agree with each
other at times because theywanted to make something awesome

(37:50):
.
So the fact is that you justadmitted that amongst your team.
Oh yeah, that's, that's real.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's authentic and we just admitted that amongst
your team.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
oh, yeah, that's, that's real, that's authentic
and we're on testosteronethrough that.
So, like you went over here,you're definitely on
testosterone over there aren'tyou, I'm just kidding no man.
So um the stigma overall aroundmen's health, how do you guys
think that it's shifting overall?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
uh, podcasts like this like positive yeah, totally
.
But I mean like podcasts likethis is just becoming way more
right, like it doesn't have thatsteroid connotation that you
say you know it was.
It was some hush hush type ofstuff a long time ago and I
actually see that now, like withmore like traditional or
mainstream medicine, where a lotof these younger doctors that
are like coming out of schoolare a lot more open to the idea

(38:36):
and a lot more like willing to.
You know, have guys look attheir testosterone, whereas,
like you get these old guys thatyou know went to school 30
years ago or 40 years ago andtestosterone causes LVH and it
causes erythrocytosis and like,no, you can't do it.
I don't care if your level is110, you know, or whatever.
Like it's, just it's a steroid.
Like you can't know.
It's not like that anymore.
Right, you know what I mean.

(38:56):
Like we can have we're, youknow, thank God for podcasts.
Right, because like it's goneso mainstream that like it's
keeping us in business.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
They kind of did the same thing with marijuana too,
like early on, where they theymade it like this terrible,
terrible thing think it was aclass or schedule one drug in
the 80s, I don't know it's aschedule three now.
Well it was.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
it was a big deal back in the 80s, like if you
were caught with steroids well,they had like the lilo, they had
the lilo zato thing and theyhad like the pro baseball thing,
right and like.
So congress got involved and itwas a huge, huge deal.
Yeah, you know, and I thinkthat the, the testosterone, is
separating itself from steroiduse, right, like TRT is
fundamentally different thansteroid use.

(39:41):
Right, they're bothtestosterone, but the dose makes
the poison.
You know what I mean and like.
And the observation is whatmatters, like the management is
what matters, like havingsomebody just look at your
frigging blood work, you know.
So you're doing this safely, oras safe as you know, safe as
possible.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I'm glad that you mentioned that the difference
between steroids andtestosterone, and it has to do
with the balance and the amountthat you're taking basically is
what it is, but then also, too,there's other things that you
need to take with that, too,right, like you don't just take
TRT.
A lot of times you have to takeadditional stuff, like to help
balance yourself out, or is thatnot for everybody?

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Oh, it's definitely not for everybody.
There's a lot of docs out there, a lot of TRT clinics that will
just automatically prescribeestrogen blockers.
You know, one of the thingsthat happens with TRT is that
your estrogen levels go up.
Everyone, every human being,has this enzyme called aromatase
and basically all it does is itacts on some of the
testosterone and chops it inhalf and converts it into two

(40:39):
separate things.
One of them is estrogen,estradiol or E2.
And then the other one isdihydrotestosterone.
Right, and estrogen has this,like it almost has like a bad
word in amongst guys.
Right, like you don't want tohave high what are you?
Soy or whatever you know, likethis high estrogen bullshit.
But no, estrogen is a hormoneman, it's super important for

(41:00):
all of us.
But it's about the balance.
You don't want to have too lowestrogen.
You don't want to have too highof estrogen.
You want to be in the sweetspot, right, and if you just
throw guys indiscriminately onestrogen blockers, you're
inevitably going to crash theirestrogen, or some of them.
You're going to crash theirestrogen.
And when you start getting low,low estrogen, you're talking
about like no sex drive, likedry joints, like no energy no,

(41:21):
you know.
No libido.
Like no, you know no ambition,nothing, and you're you're doing
the complete opposite of whatyou're trying to do, what you're
trying to accomplish.
Right, and so I don't.
We don't throw everybody onestrogen blockers.
We give people estrogenblockers that need estrogen
blockers, right, like, andthere's not some, some like
arbitrary lab value wherever.
Like oh, you get, you get anAstrozole or whatever.
Like it's how, how are youfeeling, man?

(41:42):
Are you having any breasttenderness?
Like you have any itchy nipples?
You have any emotionalsensitivity?
Like you know, you know what Imean.
Like that's the kind of shitwe're looking for.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
You ever have guys that are uncomfortable with
telling you like, yes, I do havethat or that, or you yes, maybe
it's, it's in the phrasing.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's definitely in the phrasing.
You know it's like if you startsaying itchy nipples to people,
they're a little bit, you know,a little bit weirded out by
that.
But, like you know, everyonecan relate to, like emotional
sensitivity, or or you know,like I hear, I hear guys they'll
cry at, cry at commercials whenthey've never done that before.
Right, that's another tellingsign, you know, when guys tear
up at commercials like the spcacommercials, the dog, the dog

(42:16):
commercials, right.
But yeah, I mean, anastrozoleis like one of the.
You know, it's definitely ahealthy medicine.
We just give you a low dose.
If you need one once a week,it's easy to take.
There's other things that youcan take too, right?
So there's.
If you really need to maintaintesticular function while you're
on testosterone, we can add anHCG or commonly known as pregnel
, or there's like the wholescience-y part of it is like the

(42:37):
pituitary gland releasesluteinizing hormone and follicle
stimulating hormone from yourbrain and it goes down to your
testicles.
And your testicles are justfactories, right.
They produce two things theyproduce sperm and testosterone
and that, when you're ontestosterone, any type of what
people say is exogenoustestosterone or testosterone
that's not naturally madetestosterone as a medication

(43:01):
that, say, is exogenoustestosterone, or testosterone
that's not naturally madetestosterone as a medication
that luteinizing hormone andthat follicle simulating hormone
, that signaling mechanism getscut off, right.
And so what like these adjuvantmedications do, like HCG and
clomiphene, all these is theyallow that signaling mechanism
to continue right.
So there are some guys that arelegitimately like hypogonadal
right, where they've got liketestosterone levels in the
hundreds or or whatever, andthey're symptomatic to it, but

(43:22):
they're 30 years old and theydon't have kids yet and they
want to have kids.
So, like, what do you do inthat circumstance?
Right, like, obviously the goldstandard is to not be on
testosterone, but like there'scertain circumstances where,
like right, dude, you need, youneed testosterone, you know, and
in those, in thosecircumstances, you can use, you
can use medications like HCG orenclomophene, those kinds of
things to like maintaintesticular functioning Right.

(43:44):
Another thing that happens oneof the downsides of TRT is
testicular atrophy.
You know, like I think a lot ofpeople want to downplay that,
but like, the reality is, ifyou're on testosterone, you're
going to lose like 30 to 50% ofthe test of the size of your
testicles.
You testosterone, you're goingto lose like 30 to 50% of the
test of the size of yourtesticles.
You know, and for somebody likeme, I've been married for a
long time, I got two kids.
I don't, I don't care Right,but there's a lot of dudes that
do you know.
It's part of your identity ofas a man, like you know, and so

(44:06):
if you want to maintain thatvolume, that size, you can use
those like adjunct medicationsto maintain, maintain their
functionality, maintain theirsize.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Wow, you went right down a rabbit hole.
That was a rant.
Sorry Of nerd talk.
Right, that was a rant, but no,no-transcript.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Matt's really good at explaining things, especially
in the biology part, sciencepart.
I had no interest in biology orscience.
Before and after you explainthings, it kind of makes sense.
I guess that's a lot.
That's what our patients thinktoo like you yeah, make things
relatable and explain thingsreally, really well.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I like to know why you know, and I want people to
tell me why, like, why are youdoing this shit?
Like what are we doing this for?
Yeah, yeah, and you knowthere's.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I want people to tell me why, like, why are you doing
this shit?
Like what are we doing this for?
Yeah, yeah, and you knowthere's, there's so, so many
things that I wanted to askabout.
Like, when do you know?
Like, when do you know the timeis right for you to go get
checked on your testosterone?
Like, is it?
Is it an age?
Is it the way you're feeling?
Like, if I'm someone listeningto this right now, how do I know
that I need to go get mytestosterone levels checked?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Yeah, that's just totally subjective, right Like
if you ask you know somebody,they're going to say you know if
you're symptomatic to it.
Right Like if you're, if you,if you don't have that libido
that you used to have, if you'regetting fatter, if you're not
putting on muscles easilyanymore, if you've got low
energy.
But that that's everyone.
Right Like, that's everyone.
I mean my personal feeling andobviously I'm biased.
But like, my personal feelingis that testosterone should be
included in annual physical labs.

(45:32):
Right, like it's so importantfor men and just like just
functioning generally, that likewhen you go to your physician
and you, you know, get yourannual physical labs along with
the CBC and the CMP and the TSHand all the normal labs and shit
the A1C that they do, p and thetsh and all the normal labs and
shit the a1c that they do, Ithink total testosterone should
be included in that because it'sso, it's so important in like

(45:52):
just maintaining, you know,optimal performance and just
general like quality of lifeyeah yeah, that that's actually
really huge.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
we see men coming in every week or so.
We literally see their changesin energy level, their happiness
.
They even look a little bitbigger and some of them show
significantly sign like goodsleep.
So some people come in withlike eye bags before come in
like fully sleeping, like clearmind Are you talking?

(46:23):
About me.
No, not you, not you.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
I'm just kidding, even with us since the beginning
.
Be patient, yeah, man.
Yeah, I mean, it's been greatfor me.
The best about me no, not you,no, you, I'm just kidding, even
with us since the beginning.
Be patient, yeah, man.
Yeah, I mean, it's been greatfor me.
The best part, I think, isabout where you're located.
So let's talk about that.
So where are you guys located?

Speaker 3 (46:36):
specifically, if folks are interested in checking
out what you have to offer, soright now we have three
locations, with west hollywoodand san gabriel being the main
locations, ultimate Mail.
We also have a satellitelocation in Downey where men can
get in and checked out.
We've seen the same amount ofservers.
It'll be the same, exact samequality.

(46:56):
So, yeah, visit us.
We're right on Sunset Boulevardin West Hollywood, san Gabriel.
We're right by I-10.
So it's pretty close toanywhere, pretty much.
At Downey we're on the lakewooduh boulevard location.
So yeah, it's a prettyconvenient drive for everyone in
the different, differentdemographics in la, basically.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
But yeah, we're trying to expand and get more
locations out there so we canhelp more men do you guys offer
any kind of mail service rightnow, like if folks come in, they
get tested and then they findout that they need whatever and
they just don't have time tocome pick it up.
Do you guys offer any kind oflike dropping it in the mail and
sending to them right now?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Are you talking about mail?

Speaker 1 (47:43):
like M-A-L-E or M-A-I-L.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
M-A-I-L.
I'm just mail.
Yeah, I we, you know, like webuild custom plans for people,
right, and like I'm onlylicensed in California so we
can't ship out of state rightnow.
I do work with a supervisingphysician.
Right, I'm a PA, so inCalifornia, like I have to be
working for a supervisingphysician Dr Nyberg, he's an
awesome dude.
He's a retired, retiredinterventional radiologist and
now does this full-time.
But, uh, we will ship toanywhere in california if need

(48:07):
be, right, like we're justbuilding custom plans for people
.
That's the whole idea, you know, is it like it's just a
personal touch, right?
That's kind of what separatesus from everyone else yeah, plan
is made for you and you only.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
There's no, I want to say there's no two same plans
no cookie cutter, like you know,yeah, so basically, if you want
to come in, pick up like a twomonth, uh, two time supply and
you're traveling out of stay,traveling for like six, five,
six, four months gettingdeployed, something like that,
we can work with you.
Always we'll try to keep yourtestosterone supply as needed,

(48:40):
as long as it's within theregulation range.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, I mean we have a ton of guys that get deployed
all the time and, like we, justwe figure out how to make it
happen.
Right, like that's.
I mean that's just standardoperating practice for us.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
That's.
That's great customer serviceright there.
Now you have a whole other sideof the business that deals with
the women's side, but we'lltalk about that another time.
I just wanted to cover I mean,it's such a big business that
you have like two sides to youractual physical location and to
what you guys are doing as well,and, as we're rounding out the

(49:16):
end of this podcast, I justwanted to make sure I covered
everything.
Was there anything that Ididn't mention during this
podcast that you probably wouldlike to cover or talk about, or
just go back over again and makesure that people fully
understand the realities versusthe facts, versus the falsehoods
about TRT?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
I think one thing that we could elaborate on for
sure is that there's differenttypes of TRT, right, like we
kind of alluded to it earlier.
But there's, like you know,obviously injections are the
most popular and most well-knownright Like.
Injections take two minutes andthey're awesome, and I can get
your levels up, you know, ashigh as we need to, you know in
the top quarter of the range,whatever, really easily.
But there's other options.
There's a lot of guys thatdon't like needles or whatever

(49:52):
the case may be.
There's creams and gels, right,which are also very popular.
What we've been doing a lot oflately are pellets, which are
these little like tic-tac thingsthat you insert, that we insert
under the skin, above themuscle, into the subcutaneous
tissue right there, and it juststably releases testosterone
over time, right, and it lastsfor like anywhere from four or
five, six months sometimes.
So you do it like twice a yearand that way you don't have to

(50:13):
deal with leaking injections,but it just keep your level
stable throughout.
You know, those are really,really popular.
And then there's anothermedication we use called
Kizatrex, which is a new FDAapproved oral testosterone that
you take twice daily.
They're horse pills, man,they're big old things, but you
take them twice a day andthey're really convenient for
some people, right?
And some guys, testosterone'sjust not.
It's not appropriate for you.

(50:34):
But there are other solutions.
There are other options.
Another one, a great one, isenclomaphene, which is becoming
really popular right now.
It's a derivative of, or anisomer of, this well-known
medication called clomaphene,which is used in, like, the
fertility space and a lot ofwomen's health stuff.
But what it does is it allowsit.
It basically sends yourpituitary on overdrive and you
just dump out a bunch of FSH,which is the, the, the signal

(50:57):
that tells your balls to producemore testosterone, right?
Or sorry, excuse me, lh thatproduces more testosterone.
So you?
So you start like intrinsicallyproducing more testosterone, so
we can get your levels uppretty darn high with just that
too, right?
So there's a bunch of differentoptions.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Yeah, and definitely the aesthetic side as well.
Matt does a lot of lasertreatments here for lots of men,
believe it or not Botox fillers, hair resolutions.
One of the more significantside effects is if you have male
pattern boldness and you'restill want to get on
testosterone.
We do have something called thepower hair solution, which I'll

(51:33):
let matt go over the sciencypart.
But yeah, essentially it helpsyou grow more hair, gets more
volume, prevent hair loss.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
But, yeah, the science part yeah, well, I mean,
one of the you know, the bigproblems we kind of talked about
it earlier is that, like, uh,testosterone, ar, testosterone
aromatizes.
We talked about that enzyme,how it turns into estrogen and
the other thing it turns into iscalled DHT or
dihydrotestosterone.
Um, that's the, that's thechemical that's responsible for
male pattern baldness, for hairloss, right?
So another common thing that wehear is like oh, am I going to

(52:02):
lose my hair?
Right?
That's a real common thing thatpeople ask.
Nope, you will not lose yourhair.
What testosterone will do isthat will increase the
probability of your hair loss.
If you have a dad and uncle orbrother or somebody like that
that's close to you that losttheir hair around that same age,
it increases the risk of thathappening, for sure.
Some guys do lose some of theirhair, for sure.
But it doesn't just becauseyou're on testosterone doesn't

(52:23):
mean you're gonna lose your hair.
I like what you mentionedearlier about the options,
because some people don't likeneedles yeah, some people can't
even fathom like stabbingthemselves bro, I have guys like
I draw blood and I have guyspass out on me.
They vagal out and literallythey'll up, they'll pass out.
I'm putting their legs up inthe air and shit and, like you
know, dumping water on theirhead.
Yeah, yeah, it happens all thetime.
Man, guys just don't likeneedles.
They'll be all sleeved up, youknow, like full tattoos or

(52:46):
whatever, and I take this littleneedle to draw some blood.
I gotta get over it man.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah, no, I was part of a combat lifesaver course
when I was in the military andI've seen untrained people like
stick uh ivs and other peopleand you know you got to get that
angle and I've seen peopledirectly stick at a 90 degree
angle into the arm and you seetheir face just turn white.
You know like yeah that thatthey'll never come back from
that ever again.
So yeah, uh, ewan, I was thereanything that I mentioned in the

(53:13):
podcast that uh, or I didn'tmention the podcast that I
should have mentioned I thinkthat pretty much covers it.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
To add on to the hair loss part, that's why we have
the medical spot right attachedto us.
Um, essentially they haveamazing prp machines prP
microneedling specifically thatgrows your hair back a lot more.
I probably will lose my hair atsome point because my dad and
my granddad have meltdownimpotence, so I'm pretty aware

(53:39):
of the hair loss space.
That's why we came up with thehair loss solution and all the
PRP hair.
But it's all amazing treatmentsthat you basically do every six
months or a year to help youretain your hair and, yeah, make
it look fuller.
And this is all evidence-basedtoo.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
This isn't like we're not experimenting right Like
this is all.
There's papers that justifylike what we're doing and guide
us right Like we do a lot oferectile dysfunction management.
That's another huge thing thatwe didn't even touch on today.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
That that's like a huge part of what we do you guys
do so much, man, I mean, youcan't even fit it into a podcast
.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, yeah, um.
Yeah, I mean erectiledysfunction management.
It's like a huge, it's a worldunto itself, right, but
everything we do is is based onon current scientific literature
, right, like we're scouringpapers all the day and reading
journals and like talking topeople and having conversations
and trying to.
You trying to not just like,keep up with like, keep up, keep
up with the Joneses, but like,innovate also.

(54:33):
You know like, but do it.
You know, do it safely, in away that's effective.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Yeah, you, you've seen a lot more acceptance with
TRT.
I mean, we just came off theheels of two wars that went on
for 20 years and you're talkingto a combat veteran right now
and I can tell you that I'veknown more people that have
benefited from this and it'shelped them out with their just
staying in the fight, with theirjobs, with their family,

(54:58):
keeping their moods.
You know great and you know therecovery is huge too, because
I'm a very active 45-year-oldmale but I'm over here fighting
25 old kids that are trying torip my head off.
So for me it's it's reallyimportant to you know um, to to
be able to recover, to go towork the next day, to feel good

(55:18):
on the weekends when everyoneexpects you to feel good.
So it's, it's helped me outquite a bit over the years and I
, you know I really appreciatethe customer service that you
guys have offered me and givenme over the years.
It's been great man and I lovegoing in and seeing you guys.
I know this sounds like aninfomercial, but I think this is
probably one of the longestrelationships that I've had with
this sort of support.

(55:38):
You know, with my health, youknow, because I've moved around
so much my entire life and I'vechanged doctors and things like
that, so I'm flattered.
Oh, I really, I reallyappreciate you guys, man, for
coming on, coming on the podcasttoday, and I hope this isn't
the only one that we can do morein the future and have more
conversations as well.
We just scratched the surface,man, they're so.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
I know go so deep.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
I know we didn't talk about the whole the, the
women's side.
We didn't talk about the, thehair growth stuff.
So I mean there's so much totalk about.
I didn't even realize it.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Yeah, Weight loss, ED .
Everything can take care of you.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah, but I mean, I think one thing I want to make
clear is that, like you know,testosterone is not the be all,
end all solution.
Right, it is a tool that we canuse to help optimize
performance and recovery.
Right, for it's a wonderfultool for people specifically in
that are first responders, thatare soldiers that are deployed,

(56:32):
that are firefighters, policeofficers, anybody that uses
their job physically or thatuses their body in a physical
way to make their testosteroneum, is is a extremely important
thing that you should be awareof, yeah, and also doing it
responsibly.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yeah, doing it responsibly because I know,
because, uh, the gym I used togo to, I knew guys in there that
were doing on, they were doingtrend, they were doing like
stacks of other stuff, and to methat's, that's scary, like when
I'm getting advice from someonethat drives a forklift on my
health and my body like I'm not,I'm not doing that so I'd
rather go to a professional thatknows and has been there before
.
and your background, Matt, Imean that's a great compliment

(57:08):
to what you're doing today andthe advice that you're giving
out there.
So, no, I think Ultimate Millis a great place for people to
go.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Definitely our pleasure to have everyone here.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yeah, we love it.
Man, like I'll be doing thisfor the rest of my life, like
this is I found my niche.
This is what I love to do.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Well, let's have you back on the show again and talk
about some of the other thingsthat you guys offer at some
point in time, and I'lldefinitely cut out some great
clips and hopefully get somefolks more educated out there
and more awareness.
I mean, at the end of the day,that's the most important thing.
Right Is making sure people aremore educated and we break the
stigma.
And feeling better, exactly,exactly.

(57:50):
Ultimate Mail is a great placeto go and, you know, trt is not
just about getting the edge back.
It's about making sure that youshow up for your family,
staying in the fight, livingwith purpose.
Whether you're a veteranadjusting to a civilian life or
law enforcement grinding throughyour ever-changing shifts or
maybe you're just a guy thatwants to feel like himself again
these are the tools that canhelp support you get there.
Big thanks to Matt, big thanksto Yun for joining me today on

(58:10):
the podcast.
Make sure you go toultimatemailcom, check out the
journey of the entire business,as well as Instagram, at
Ultimate Mail Clinic.
Right?
Are you guys on any othersocial media platforms?

Speaker 3 (58:22):
We're on Yelp.
I'm not sure if that's.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Google, yelp, instagram, soon to be YouTube,
hopefully YouTube With your help, yeah, with my help, okay.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Yeah, man, no problem .
I know a few folks that arelooking to put their and it's
important to have yourreputation out there Businesses
like yours that offer authentichelp is absolutely essential for
us to make sure that we don'tget a bad reputation for what
TRT has to offer, because, atthe end of the day, it does have
a lot of great benefits,especially for our veterans and

(58:53):
our law enforcement firstresponders out there.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
For everyone, and we do have some specials for
listeners too.
So if everyone, if anyone comesin, we can offer them some
deals which we'll send them abit yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Sounds good man.
Thanks man, thanks brother.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you guys for joining meon the podcast guys, and for
everyone else out there, asalways, I want you to stay tuned
, stay focused and staymotivated.
Warriors fall out.