July 15, 2025 • 55 mins
Marine Corps veteran Leo Fuentes shares his journey from enlisting at 18 to becoming a California attorney, showcasing how military leadership skills transfer to civilian success in the legal profession.
• Choosing military service as an escape from neighborhood gang violence and a path toward creating a better future
• Gaining leadership experience at just 19 years old, managing troops much older than himself
• Learning to adjust expectations when transitioning to civilian life and not expecting civilians to operate like military personnel
• Using military discipline to complete law school and pass the challenging California Bar Exam with a 32% pass rate
• Building special connections with veteran clients who feel immediate trust upon learning about shared military experience
• Creating a family legacy with three brothers serving in the Marine Corps
• Finding purpose in representing clients against powerful opponents, particularly enjoying the role of defending the underdog
• Maintaining the military mindset of service while advocating in the legal system
For transitioning service members: Start planning your exit strategy early, even if you think you'll serve 20+ years. Utilize tuition assistance while active, save your GI Bill, seek mentorship, and remember you don't have to navigate the transition alone.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Warriors fall in.
It's time for formation.
Welcome back to the podcastfolks, where we dive deep into
the real stories of leadership,survivability, adapting from
beyond the uniform.
Today we're honored to have aguest whose path speaks to grit,
growth and give back.
From a young Marine leadingtroops at 18 years old to a
California-based lawyerdefending clients of both
(00:25):
criminal and personal injury law, leo Fuentes embodies what it
means to adapt and overcome.
Not only does he serve ourcountry with honor from his
veteran experience, but he's nowserving the justice system with
purpose.
So let's welcome to the show.
Marine Corps veteran attorneyand brother in the fight for
what's right.
Leo Fuentes, thank you forjoining me today, man.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you for the invite.
Kp.
Appreciate it, brother.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Listen, man, the honor is all mine.
It truly is, man.
I know you have a very,extremely busy schedule.
I've been slammed with the fluthe last two days and I was like
there's no way I'm canceling onthis guy because we already had
the reschedule once.
So thank you for being soflexible, man.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thanks, because we already had the reschedule once.
So thank you for being soflexible, man.
Thanks, it's all good, it's allgood.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So, leo, I want you to take us back to your mindset
after high school.
What led you to join themilitary, specifically the
Marine Corps, and whatultimately drove your decision
to sign on the dotted line andtake that step forward.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah.
So to be honest with you, KP,it was just one of those things
where I felt like it was my dutyto serve, mainly because I
wanted to give back to thiscountry.
It gave me the opportunity toget here.
I was originally born in Mexico, so I was brought here and I
felt that it was just the rightthing to do.
And also, my close friends werejoining.
They joined before me, rightafter high school and, you know,
(01:45):
not to mention, I wanted tothrow on the dress blues at some
point right One day.
But yeah, it was more likeservice to country and it's just
to give back and do my time, domy duty.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
When you were brought up, though I mean, I can tell
you that serving in the militaryand willingly signing on the
dotted line to go away and go toboot camp or basic training or
anything like that, that's notan easy task.
I mean, a lot of my friendswere not doing that, they were
going straight to college, and alot of them actually looked at
the military as a last resort.
(02:21):
I looked at it as kind of likehow you did, because my dad
served for 20 years and Ithought, okay, well then, I
guess I'll just go into themilitary too, but was there any
other encouragement as far as,like, family members that helped
push you in the military, orwas it just kind of on your own
journey?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, so I'm the oldest out of four boys my poor mom,
right, no daughters.
So I was the oldest out of thefour boys.
I didn't really have anybody toteach me or lead me, but what I
did know is that I needed to dobetter and go to college.
Go to school, get a career, andI knew that the military was a
great stepping stone fordiscipline and the experience of
(03:01):
leadership.
And just everybody who I metthat joined the Marine Corps was
happy and happy that they didit.
And then they came out and theyjust talked about how they
transformed them and I think itgoes to all the branches, right,
you go in one person and youcome out a different person with
growth.
But one of the things too thatkind of drove me to join was I
(03:22):
needed to get the heck out of mytown.
At the time my town wasn't whatit is now.
Now you have nice restaurants,nice breweries, it's a great,
great community.
We even have a downtown now andat the time it was just fields.
And growing up I've experienceda lot of a lot of like run-ins
with the local gangs and, youknow, trying to defend myself or
(03:45):
defending my brother, and youknow my father was actually
robbed and shot at one of thelocal markets and I remember,
like it was yesterday, my momwas banging on the door, I was
finishing taking a shower andshe was like they shot your dad.
They shot your dad and I waslike what?
And it was just like surreal.
So I went over there and justthings like that drove me like I
(04:07):
need to do better, I need toget out of here, I need to go,
make something out of myself andthen come back.
Come back and get my family,get my family out of this
neighborhood.
But now, like I said, they'reliving there now and it's a lot
better and yeah, it's just lifeexperiences better and yeah,
(04:28):
it's just life experiences.
And at the time, you know, Ithink I was just trying to fall,
trying to falling into, kind offalling into like the wrong
crowd.
So I'm like I need to go.
I need to go.
I was, I was offered to jointhe local gang I don't even want
to call it offered, right.
I was asked right, but luckilyI was.
I was smart enough to say youknow what, I'll get back to you,
I'll get back to you next week.
And I just never got back tothem.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Instead, I joined the Marine Corps.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now, was there any kind of delay after high school
joining the Marines, or did yougo right in?
No, yeah.
So after high school, all mybuddies joined and they were off
to boot camp and I wasrecruiting out of one specific
office and what happened is Ihadn't not received the specific
document that I needed to join.
So then the recruiter just kindof dropped me and looking back
at it, you know I get it.
You know I might've wanted himto be a lot cooler about it and
(05:17):
I ignore my phone calls and justkind of ghost me, but it is
what it is now Right.
So I ended up going to collegefirst semester and I was leaving
my first period class and I waswalking by the campus and I see
this Marine and his Charliesstacked and his ribbons are just
stacked, impressive, with hisjust looking like he would pass
(05:38):
inspection right.
So I walked past him literallyand then something inside of me
told me go back and talk to him.
I don't know why, I don't knowfor what reason, but other than
it's meant to be right, I am abeliever in God and the universe
and things happen for a reason.
So I went back, I talked to himand, sure enough.
(05:59):
After that he's like let metalk to you, come see me in my
office.
I ended up recruiting out ofanother office and it was kind
of like on the download, becausehe told me I'm not supposed to
be here.
But if I can get you in andhelp you out, I'll do it.
It's like you were never here.
It was one of those.
You were never here.
I never saw you, you know.
So I recruited out of adifferent recruiting station,
(06:22):
out of a different recruitingstation.
But you know another interestingthing at MEPS I, the day you
know the day for the MarineCorps at least I don't know how
it is for other branches, butfor the Marine Corps you go to
MEPS and then, right after MEPS,you do your final medical and
then you're off to bootcamp thenext day.
That day I ran into therecruiter who kind of just
(06:42):
stopped taking my calls and heasked me like, what are you
doing here?
And, like I said, it was somuch pride.
I was like I'm joining, that'swhat I'm doing here, you know.
So I was like.
So then I was like, and I justlike kept walking because it was
my turn to do whatever they'rehaving us do for the medical
exam.
But it's so interesting howlike just things come back.
Sometimes things come back fullcircle.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You know, I never thought I was going to see him
again, but I saw him and then Iwas off to bootcamp and and
joined man.
It is a small world, especiallyin the military community.
I I ran into one of my drillsergeants when I was in Iraq.
I ran into sergeant majors thatworked for my dad back in the
day.
So it's a small military man.
You run into people all thetime.
But was there any?
Was there ever?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
a moment when you felt like this was meant to be.
Yeah, I think it was.
It was that specific moment.
And then, you know, when Igraduated, when I graduated
bootcamp, that was the firsttime I saw my dad cry.
Actually, my dad wasn't anemotional guy, he wasn't really
a lovey-dovey type of guy.
He was always.
That's how he was raised, right.
So when I graduated boot campand they told us I were
(07:53):
dismissed, I found him and myfamily and then next thing I
know I see him just bawling andI was like, well, I've never
seen this, but I think that washis way of saying that he was
proud.
But I think that was his way ofsaying you know that he was
proud.
But I think at that moment thegraduation days when I feel like
it's all worth it, this is,this is meant to be, and this is
only the beginning, because Iknow that there's more.
(08:14):
There's more.
At the time I didn't knowwhether I was going to stay in
or not or get out.
But yeah, once it was all done,it was said and done, I was
like this is the right decision.
I in and done.
I was like this is the rightdecision, I feel good, I'm proud
.
Let's go.
What's next?
Right, let's see where lifetakes me.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, the oldest brother helping pave the way
there for the rest of theyounger ones.
I mean, that's reallyimpressive, man.
I mean I'm the youngest in myfamily and I'm pretty much the
only one that made it out, youknow.
So it's good on you, man, forbeing a true leader at such a
young age.
After you got through boot campin the Marines, what was your
first leadership experience like?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So the first?
Well, first I want to say thankyou for your service, kp.
I know I don't know if I've gota chance to say that, but thank
you for your continued service.
Thank you for doing thispodcast.
We appreciate you.
It's definitely motivating.
When I first saw it I was likeman, that's motivating.
Trash right there, heck, yeah,you know.
So thanks for that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
It's an honor.
It's an honor to talk to folkslike you, man, it really is.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Thanks, brother, I appreciate it.
The interesting thing is, whenI got to, so I was stationed in
Japan, the first duty station,right.
And next thing, I know I'm 19years old, I'm in charge of
37-year-olds or 35-years-old andyou know, because you know it's
based off rank in the militaryand I was fortunate enough to
(09:32):
get promoted to the NCO ranksand then I was there, I was like
whoa, now I'm supposed to tellthese guys what to do, I'm
supposed to lead them.
So at the time it was a littlescary, a little cautious,
because you're talking about a19-year-old guy who's never been
anywhere, he's just startinghis life right.
(09:53):
But I was really grateful thatthe military, the Marine Corps,
allowed me the opportunity tolearn, because I'll tell you
what KP.
I've seen it in the military andeven out in the civilian world,
in the legal field too.
There's a big differencebetween leading other people,
leading a team, and leading yourown life.
(10:14):
There's a lot of people that Iin the legal community have done
a great job leading their lifeto get to where they are, their
achievements, but then you putthem in a situation where they
need to lead a team now or theyneed to do other things.
Some of them don't really knowhow to do it, and obviously, too
, no fault of their own right.
But I think it just goes toshow you that, whatever branch
you join, remember that youpicked up some skills One of
(10:38):
them is leadership, another oneis the grit and just remember
who you are and don't limityourself.
Don't limit yourself to whatyou can do.
If you want to do something, doit, try it.
What's the worst?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
that can happen.
It doesn't happen.
You get to try again, Right,Yep?
You just pick yourself up andyou keep on going.
That's part of leadership.
Man is failing and then gettingback up and then figuring it
out and trying to improve everytime.
So how would you say that yourleadership roles in the Marines
affect how you now lead your lawpractice?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I think that the discipline is one of the things
that stands out.
And talking to people, becausewhen you're in charge of people
in the military, you have to beable to get to know your troops,
your team, your colleagues, andyou can't talk to everybody the
certain way right.
That transfers over to myclients.
(11:34):
For example, when I used to docriminal defense, I couldn't
talk to every single person thesame way because everybody's
different right.
Some people were more angry,other people were more chill,
and even now talking to otherattorneys too, like opposing
counsel, that also appliesAdapting and overcoming
situations right, for example,for my clients.
(11:55):
When I used to do criminaldefense, some of them were
really angry.
A lot of them were vets too.
So what I noticed is that oncethey found out that I was
military, they gave me an extralayer of trust.
They gave me kind of theconfidence that they wanted to
do in their attorney right, andI think it matters.
(12:17):
It matters how you talk topeople.
It matters how you lead people.
You have to lead your clients,too when it comes to whether or
not they should go to trial,because sometimes you have to be
very cautious of what you do,because at the end of the day,
if you go to trial, nothing'sguaranteed right.
You're giving your future, theoutcome, to 12 members of the
community, so you have to beable to know how to lead them in
(12:37):
the right direction, what'sbest for them, including in
criminal defense or in personalinjury as well.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, that's actually a really great point.
You got to have those softskills in there.
I know that a lot of peoplethink they watch Full Metal
Jacket and they think that a lotof military leaders lead that
way, where it's just in yourface and you'll do it now or
you'll get skull fucked orsomething like that.
But in reality you have tolearn how to work with people,
(13:06):
whether it's civilians.
I know when I was working atbattalion as the S3, I had to
work with contractors to getwhat I wanted, and having that
attitude was not going to helpme at all.
So I had to learn how to havethe gift of gab, I guess you
could say to get to theobjective, whatever it was,
whatever I needed to get at thattime.
(13:26):
So I wanted to ask you what aresome of the things that you've
experienced?
I know for me, like working inthe civilian sector for a while,
there are somemisunderstandings about military
leadership, military leadershiptraining.
What are some of the thingsthat civilians often
misunderstand about theleadership, training or
(13:48):
responsibility that veteranscarry?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I think that a lot of times a lot of the veterans are
misunderstood.
I've run into people in thecivilian world and the legal
field where if you have asoldier or an airman or a Marine
or whatever branch they were in, and they may not be performing
at the top-notch level thatthey're capable of, right, but
(14:12):
they're judged.
They're judged by saying, oh,like this guy, this guy was in
the Marine Corps and he can'teven get any clients, or X, y
and Z right, or he's not makingany money, whatever the reason
is right.
But I think that a lot of timespeople judge the branch
individually just based on oneperson or based on people that
(14:33):
they may run into, who they haveno idea what they're dealing
with, what demons are battlingor what they're going through.
So I noticed that and it kindof I don't want to say it
bothers me, but it just kind oflike, kind of sucks right,
because I do feel for them,because I feel like they may not
be at their full potentialright now.
But you got to work at it.
I didn't just get out of bedone day and you know like, oh, I
(14:54):
have all this right.
It's step by step, you got towork on it, and one of the
things I struggled with when Igot out of the military was
remembering that I wasn't inactive duty anymore.
I remember in undergrad I wantedto lock on people.
It's crazy.
I think back and I'm like Itold myself wait, you can't be
trying to lock people on or likeyell at them because they're
(15:18):
not acting the way people wereacting when they're active duty.
It's like it's not.
That's not it right, so thatalong with just getting the
skills to, like you said, talkto other people, everybody talks
to other people a different way.
People don't listen if you yellat them or you got to tell them
a certain way.
But that's one of the thingsthat I noticed.
(15:39):
I noticed that the judgingright and I think people just
have to remember that Just bekind and just be.
Keep in mind that noteverybody's at their full
potential when you first meetthem and you know, some people
just haven't tapped into thefull potential.
So it's okay.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, I run across a lot of stereotypes a lot of
times.
There was a lot of things thatI was stereotypical of until I
went to war and I had to workwith Marines and I had to work
with the Air Force, and I had towork with other branches.
And I'll tell you like therewas an Air Force unit, like
(16:20):
where I was at in Iraq, and theydid the same job I did.
They went outside the wire,they got, they got tuned up
complex ambush, ieds, all kindsof crazy stuff.
And then there was Marines Iworked with and man, where the
when the rubber meets the roadand you guys have to depend on
each other, you gain morerespect for other branches as
well.
I mean the Marines.
(16:40):
I was really impressed with howprofessional they were, how on
point they were.
I was impressed by that AirForce unit very much, so that
did the same job that I did.
They had to show up and showout too, just like everybody
else.
So I completely understandwhere you're coming from.
On that, leo, when you startedto transition out of the Marines
, what was your mindset?
(17:01):
What was?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
your mindset.
So I actually, if I could tellyoung Marines, young soldiers,
young airmen that are a year,two years in start planning now,
because that was my mindset.
My mindset was at the time theywere given 100% tuition
assistance.
So in my mind I was like, whythe heck am I not going to take
(17:27):
advantage of this?
You're telling me I can go toschool 100% tuition coverage and
save my GI bill for when I getout I was like, why wouldn't I
right?
So I've always the mindset wasalways do anything that will
make you more knowledgeable,make you a better person and
help you grow Always.
(17:48):
And I remember when I wasstationed in Japan, my buddies
in my unit would actually waitfor me to finish my assignment,
hit the submit button and thenit was the party time.
So, looking back at it, theyeven tell me now a lot of them
are law enforcement too.
They're part of differentfederal agencies DEA, fbi,
(18:10):
department of State.
They're all successful lawenforcement also.
And they tell me, dude, they'relike I remember when we would
wait for you to submit yourassignments and they're just
like I wish we would have doneit sooner.
I'm like it doesn't matter,brother, you're here now.
You're here now You're here now, right, it's all good, props to
you, you made it right.
(18:32):
But yeah, that was my mindsetthe whole time Start planning
because, look, there's nothingwrong with doing 20, 30 years in
the military, nothing wrong atit, right, it's whatever you
want to do.
But you just never know whathappens.
And I've heard a lot of storiesof motivators in the Marine
Corps and other branches thatwanted to do 20, 30 years but
unfortunately they got injured.
And then what's even moreunfortunate is that they didn't
(18:52):
have a plan B to transition intoright and they end up at places
where they can do more right.
They can do more, they can domore in the community, more for
people, but because they didn'thave the plan B or they didn't
start planning for analternative, they have to do
that and kind of go through thatrough patch.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Right, yeah, that.
I mean that definitely there'sa transition for sure.
And that's great advice to getstarted transitioning as soon as
you.
Because I knew guys that when Iwas in I would ask them like,
hey, are you taking time to goto the education center?
And they're like no, sir, I'mdoing 20 years.
(19:32):
And I knew one of those guyswho said he was doing 20 years
ended up getting medical doubtagainst his will and that's just
life.
I mean, the best place to be isa place where you can
transition or you have lateralmobility when life happens.
And so when they, when theystarted medicaling him out, he
(19:52):
was just kind of like no, Idon't know what I'm going to do
now, you know.
So it's definitely you alwaysneed to invest in yourself, but
how long did it take for you todiscover your fullest potential
after leaving active duty?
Like, at what point did yousign up to go to law school and
everything else?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Man.
That's another one of thosemoments where I think it was
just, it was meant to be and Ithink again it was just.
I think my story was writtenalready, I just didn't know
about it.
I ended up going to ask forlegal help at a legal aid
society clinic and I talked tothe attorney, got the advice I
went to get and I went to my carand I literally turned on.
(20:30):
My car was about to pull outand something again inside me
told me ask to volunteer.
So I did.
I turned my car off, walkedback into the legal clinic and I
told the retired attorney doyou think I can volunteer, Like
whatever you have like, can Ivolunteer?
And he said, yeah, definitely.
So I ended up volunteering foralmost two years while I was an
(20:51):
undergrad at this legal aidclinic and it was at different
branches or different locations.
And it just got to the pointwhere I got tired of telling
people I'm sorry, we can't helpyou, we don't have the resources
to represent you in court,we're going to have to refer you
out.
Hopefully they do your case probono or hopefully we can
connect you with an attorney.
So then I was just like what,if I go to law school.
(21:13):
What's the worst that canhappen?
They say no.
So it was a big step.
I even talked to my parents andagain, I didn't know anybody
that even went to law school orapplied to law school.
So I talked to them.
I said you know what I'm goingto try, and if it doesn't happen
, it doesn't happen.
(21:37):
So of course they weresupportive yeah, whatever.
No, because they themselvesdidn't get the opportunity to
get an education.
So of course they're going tosay, yeah, do it, but as far as
guidance or anything like that,they really didn't have it
because they didn't get anopportunity to go higher
education themselves.
So I applied and then the nextthing I know, I get in.
And then that just takes you tothe other point.
(22:00):
I was going to talk to youabout how we all find each other
.
You know who I found the firstweek in orientation.
I found one of my best friendswho was in air force and another
guy that was in the army, andthen I think, another guy too
that was in the army and we justkind of gravitated to each
other and we just, for whateverreason, we find each other, no
matter where we go, whetherthey're judges, deputy sheriffs,
(22:22):
law enforcement, and I'll tellyou what right.
That is amazing, like it's just.
It's hard to explain, but Iknow you've experienced it too.
Like you meet another veteran,someone else who served,
immediately.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
You kind of bond, you have a special bond with each
other, right, even though youknow each other right someone
standing, they're just theirposture and, by the way, they're
able to socialize and just talkand look you in the eye and
have a conversation with you,whether or not they've stood in
formation before and actuallyhad a leadership position at one
(22:59):
point in their lives.
Because I know you, youmentioned it earlier I mean 18,
19, 20 years old, especially inthe Marines.
They throw you in leadershippositions and you're standing in
front of people and in chargeof people early on, whereas,
like a college kid, 18, 19, 20,21 years old, they don't get
that experience.
They don't get that trueleadership experience on how to
interact and how to lead.
And I think that's what kind offorms us?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, and I know, I don't know if you experienced
this, but one of the things Iwas kind of I guess I struggled
with too is sometimes in thecivilian world you're in a
certain position, just based ontiming, grade type of thing,
right, and sometimes you wouldbe told some things and then my
other buddies that were in themilitary too, I would tell them
(23:45):
like man, they act as if we'venever been in a leadership
position, like you know, becauseyou know how some companies or
law firms or whatever, likewherever you go, you have your
manager, you have your assistantmanager, right.
So then when they kind of tryto lecture you on how to lead or
leadership treasure, like wejust looked at each other and
we're just like man, I guess Iforget that we've already like
(24:06):
kind of done that a little,maybe a little bit, maybe I know
a thing or two, right, but youjust got to go with it, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You know and that leads me to something else too.
I think it was on one of yourreels you had mentioned
something pretty powerful andyou said don't expect civilians
to act like the people you servewith or you had served with.
So can you unpack that for usand what that actually means?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah.
So one of the things that Inoticed is that sometimes,
especially when I first got out,I was holding people that never
served the same standards thatmy fellow NCOs were working on
or operating on.
And sometimes some people it'sjust kind of more relaxed.
They're not really like I needto get this done and that done,
(24:51):
and you got to push forward orlike no breaks right, and you
just got to be understandingthat not everybody is going to
operate as if they were in themilitary, and I think you'll
save yourself a lot of headacheswhen you finally accept that.
Because at first it was hardfor me because I was like, well,
we wouldn't do it that way, orI wouldn't do it that way, or we
(25:12):
wouldn't do it that way, or Iwouldn't do it that way, or my
buddy wouldn't do it that way.
But I think you just liketorment yourself by having these
high expectations of people andthen they don't follow through
and then at the end of the day,you're the one left with the
stress.
You know what?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
That is very powerful and I think a lot of veterans
need to understand that.
It took me a long time tounderstand that perspective,
that especially, you know, beinga combat veteran, I can't
expect the guy that went tocollege right after high school
to understand what it's like tolead a patrol or a convoy
through some of the mostdeadliest supply routes in a war
(25:45):
zone when they've never evenleft their own state, like, I
think, that veterans, when theyunderstand that, when they
understand their perspectives ofthe other side, that's called
meeting in the middle, so that Ican gain my sanity and my
understanding and myperspectives better by
understanding that most of thefolks that I deal with or
(26:05):
interact with on a daily basisare not going to have the same
experiences as me.
And once I understood that Iwas like, okay, now I have more
patience, I'm not getting asfrustrated, you know, and I
think that that's reallyimportant, like what you just
mentioned just now.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And go ahead.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No no go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, no, I was going to share an experience that
where that happened with an Armymedic.
An Army medic was one of myclients and it was my first dead
body case.
It was a vehicular manslaughter.
So this guy was charged withvehicular manslaughter.
He had deployed many times Armymedic he's seen a lot of stuff,
right and his family didn'tunderstand what you were just
(26:55):
talking about, like the militarybonding, the military
leadership, but him and I wereseen eye to eye and we were
operating on the same level thatwe were just talking about,
because he also served.
And his family actually told himone day because at the time I
was working as a public offender, which is, as you know, it's a
free council for whatever cityor county you're in, right.
(27:16):
But what a lot of people don'tknow is that they actually have
the most trial experience andhandling of cases and more
resources than most privateattorneys.
But that's a whole nother story, right?
So his family pretty much toldhim hey, we got you a private
attorney, we're going to paygood money, you're going to have
the best representation that wefound, and you know what?
(27:37):
Kp.
I'll tell you what.
Even till now, I was taken backbecause he told him no, I trust
Leo.
He's my fellow veteran.
I'm going to stay with him.
I don't care that we're notpaying him anything Like.
I trust him and we're going todo this.
We're going to go to trial.
I was like we are going to go totrial because the circumstances
were essentially there weren'tany really options.
(27:59):
No real options.
It was more no understanding ofwhat happened, no understanding
that it was really an accident,and they were coming at him
with like everything to behonest with you, and they were
coming at him with everything tobe honest with you.
They weren't really giving anyplea deals, as we would say in
that criminal defense field.
But, yeah, we went to trial andwe hung a 9-3, nine jurors
(28:23):
voted not guilty, three of themdisagreed, but at the end of the
day it resolved for areasonable offer and he didn't
have to do any jail time ornothing serious like that.
But that was one of theexperiences that I thought about
.
Right now we were talking aboutlike operating on the same
level and then the wholeleadership thing.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Wow.
So he trusted you.
His family wanted to get a muchmore expensive representation,
get a much more expensiverepresentation, and then he
decided to stay with you becauseof that brotherhood, that bond,
I guess from the military right, yeah yeah, wow, that is that.
That's a lot of trust all right, yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
But everything else, everything turned out well.
And I I still check on himevery once in a while because he
, he, he also has to battle alot of demons.
He, uh, he had ptsd from allhis deployments, all the stuff
he saw and experienced.
So every once in a while I sendhim a text like hey, man, how
you doing, like checking in, youknow, yeah that that's huge
following up with, uh, some ofyour clients making them kind of
(29:27):
a brotherhood, a brother forlife.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You know, just through your experience being in
the civilian field, being alawyer, can you speak on some of
the unseen struggles that someveterans carry with them in the
civilian life, especially havinggone through afghanistan and
iraq?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm sure that you've seen quite a few people and
represented quite a few peoplethat carry struggles yeah, as
far as, oh, yeah, my clients theclients that are presented
right, or just people that Iwork because I've seen, so I
I've got an opportunity to workwith law enforcement that have
obviously things going on too,and also clients.
(30:02):
But even with law enforcementin the court houses sometimes
they're dealing with things andI can tell they're not their
normal self.
So, like I, I've talked to someof them on the side like, hey,
what's up, brother, how youdoing, like, like, what's going
on Right?
And they just say it's one ofthose days man's like, yeah, I
know, I try to understand him,but sometimes they just have to
(30:23):
be left to deal with with thingsthe way that they want to deal
with, right.
But it requires a lot ofunderstanding, a lot of
compassion.
When it comes to my clients,even now in the personal manager
field, you have to beunderstanding and compassionate
and kind to hear them out andsee what they're going through,
right.
A lot of times all they need issomebody to talk to and to hear
(30:44):
them out.
A lot of times I had to be justthe listening ear right, and
then, once they were doneventing and telling their
grievances, they reasoned morewith me and they were on the
same page and I think a lot oftimes they're quick to just kind
of be like oh, you don't wantto take this deal, all right,
then we're going to go to trialand you're going to have to do
(31:04):
the jail time.
It's like hold on, have youtried talking to them this way
or that way?
And I've gotten a couple ofclients that are like oh, I'm so
glad that you're on my case, oreven now in personal injury,
when I had because in San Diegowe have a lot of like Navy,
marine Corps and a lot of themthat are clients in the personal
(31:26):
injury field.
They're also kind of like goodthing that you've been in too.
It's kind of like it's hard todescribe as a relief of, it's
just a sigh of relief from themLike, okay, cool, like I can you
understand like where I'm at,what I'm doing, you understand
why I can't meet you in youroffice, things like that.
But a lot of them havesometimes bad days.
Some of them are angrier, someof them are just they don't,
(31:47):
they don't really care abouttheir case.
But sometimes I have to reachout and tell them hey, this is a
really good case.
We should sit down and talkabout it.
I want to get the best resultfor you.
And sometimes they want to meetin person, sometimes they want
to meet over Zoom or video andthat's what we have to do.
I've gone to clients' housesaround 8 pm, 9 pm.
(32:08):
I'll tell you that last time Iwas in sandals, I was leaving
the gym and and then they justcalled me like hey, like I want
to talk about my case and youcan you talk about it?
And I said yeah, and we can.
We can meet tomorrow in theoffice, or like I can come down,
like you know, and I think thatgoes back to the whole like
military thing of how how weoperate.
(32:29):
Right, because for me, for you,for anybody who's serving the
military, really military thingof how we operate.
Right, because for me, for you,for anybody who's serving in
the military, really the time ofday doesn't really matter for
us.
Right, because sometimes youhad to work on the weekends, at
night, 24 hours.
So I went and I talked to theclient and he was so grateful
and he didn't care that I was insandals.
You know, it's just one ofthose things where, like it's a
(32:50):
one-on-one talk, the trust isthere.
So we.
This is, this is make it happen.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Right, yeah, I mean there are no boundaries when it
comes to leadership.
When you're in charge of peoplein the military, it's 24, 7,
365 days a year.
Man, I remember going um onholidays, picking up people you
know at the at the MP station,and and I remember my ex-wife
was like what are you doing?
And I'm like, well, like whenyou're in leadership, you're in
(33:18):
leadership.
It's 24 hours a day, seven daysa week, like there is no
boundaries on that.
So, yeah, that's that's totally.
I mean, you brought up a greatpoint with that man.
You kind of brought back somememories for me.
You know talking about, like Iguess, just everything with
brotherhood, trust andeverything.
You come from a family ofmilitary.
So out of the four males inyour family, three of you guys
(33:38):
joined the Marine Corps.
What's?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
the story behind that legacy.
So I was the first one thatjoined.
I joined enlisted ranks andthen, honestly, I didn't know
that my brothers wanted to join.
I think I was out of state foran end.
My younger brother, my youngerbrother Gio, wants to join.
And then, of course, you know,my mom and dad are like no, like
, what do you want to join?
You know, like, and he's like Ijust want to do this.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
What are the age differences between you guys?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So Gio is 10 years younger than me, like 10.
Gio is 10 years younger than me, like 10 years, 10, 11 years
younger than me.
And so it's, it's me.
And then Juan, and then Oscar,and then Gio, and then Gio's the
youngest and he, he joinedafter me, but Juan wanted to
join right after high school butunfortunately, due to an injury
(34:27):
, he had to put that off.
So then Gio joins and he's,he's, he does eight years.
And then the crazy story with mybrother Juan.
One day he calls me and he says, um, this was actually two
years ago, almost almost twoyears ago.
He calls me and says hey, Ihave a, I have an OCS date.
And it's like what, what do youmean?
(34:48):
You have an OCS date.
I didn't even know you likeapplied, I had no idea.
Like obviously, I was like well, first, congratulations, and
I'm so proud of you.
Like that's crazy, you're goingto OCS.
And like second, why didn't yousay anything?
And he's like I just wanted tomake sure it was a done deal, it
was for sure, for sure, youknow, never know.
(35:17):
He's like how to get an agewaiver?
I think at the time he was 30and but you know, under certain,
uh, certain military branches,30 year old, right, so you have
to get that waiver.
And he, he went to uh ocs andnow he's uh, he's in.
He was in south korea the lasttime I checked and now he's a
lieutenant up there and he loveshim and I'll tell you what his
demeanor and life, just thisview on life, changed because I
think it goes to and I want totie this back to earlier how we
mentioned veterans, active duty,anybody.
(35:40):
If you want to do something, donot ever let go of that dream,
of that passion, keep it andfollow through, no matter how
long it takes, because it tookmy brother 10 years to throw on
the uniform and he never let goof that.
And his view on life at the timewas well, I'm getting paid well
at this job, but I'm not happy,I'm tired of this.
(36:02):
Like it's blah, blah, blah, x,y and Z.
And he was just so pessimistic.
But as soon as he graduatedfrom OCS, like it was like a
light switch man, it.
But as soon as he graduatedfrom OCS, it was like a light
switch man.
It was just kind of like lifeis great, I'm happy.
Now it just goes to show you,no matter how long it takes.
Keep pushing, day by day.
Don't give up.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You got this wow, that's really impressive, though
.
I mean, your brother is OCS.
So I was an officer in the army.
I started out enlisted in theNational Guard and then I went
officer and I of course I catcha bunch of bunch of shit for
that, for going to the officer.
But but my old man was likehe's like, if you do 20 years,
(36:42):
I'd rather you go the officerroute.
That way you get out, you getmuch better retirement, you know
, et cetera, et cetera.
So I didn't.
At a young age I decided to gothe officer route during a time
of war, knowing that I was goingto deploy at some point, just
because I just felt a lot ofpatriotism, like for my country
man.
And so it's great to have threebrothers, man, that you can
(37:04):
share that experience with.
And what has that meant to youpersonally to have shared that
experience with your brothers?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
and it's, it's a, it's a great feeling.
Uh, I think I wish I was stillin so I could take a picture
with him.
So they got to take a picturepicture with each other in camis
.
My brother, juan, was in town,um close to uh, miramar and mcrd
here in san San Diego and hecalls me and he says do you
think I should stop by his shop?
I was like 100%, when is thenext time, when will you ever
(37:38):
get to be in camis together withthe same last name, same emblem
, same everything?
He's like you're right.
So I saw they took a picturetogether and we sent it to my
mom.
But I think it hit even moreonce they told me that.
But I think it it hit even moreonce they told me that, um,
again, I come from a family whowas like we're not all like
lovey dovey or we're not likeyou know, which is a change that
(37:58):
I've been trying to implementwithin my, with my brothers and
my parents.
But long story short, they toldme thank you for paving the way
, thank you for joining first,like because of you, you for
paving the way, thank you forjoining first, like because of
you, we, we were, uh, we wereable to join and we, we believed
that it was possible to join.
So I was kind of like man, likeit hits you like right, right
(38:19):
in the center of the chest.
It's kind of like, all right,cool, that's a good feeling,
right.
But now that I, now that I seethem, um, well, geo's out now
the other one's active duty.
But, um, now, um, I told geo gibill, you got it.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Man, you can't just let it there, leave it there,
whether you use it, or you know,if anybody has family transfer,
you got to use it for anonprofit called Act Now
Education and our entire boardis consistent of all military
community members and what we dois we go out and we get money
(38:56):
for our military community andwe go out and we get
certifications, sometimesdegrees, and we don't even touch
the GI Bill at all.
So we'll go out and we'll getproject management, professional
certifications and things likethat.
I mean that's a greatopportunity for, like your
brother, to sign up.
For Anyone that's listening tothis, go to
wwwactnoweducationorg and signup.
(39:17):
We have weekly meetings talkingabout some of the different
educational opportunitiesavailable out there.
Again, it's a nonprofit andwe're out there trying to help
with that transition process forour military community because
we know how daunting it can beand we've talked about it
several times, about theimportance of investing in
yourself while you're in serviceand starting now, even if you
(39:39):
think you're going to stay infor 20 years.
Just invest in yourself whileyou're in.
And I don't know at what point.
Was it during your time in theMarines, or was it when you got
out of the marines when youdecided that you that you had
like the spark of interest tobecoming a lawyer?
Like when did that happen?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Well, first I want to take a moment to thank you
again for that nonprofitorganization that you're part of
.
It's a big deal and there's nota lot of those out there.
So thank you so much to yourboard members too.
And, yeah, definitely go checkout the website, veterans and
anybody that's listening,because that's a great help.
You know there's very, very fewscholarships up there, so do it
.
With the lawyer thing, ithappened after.
(40:24):
I never even thought about lawschool in the first place.
It just kind of landed therebased on that legal aid society
experience where I just kind ofwanted to represent people.
I kind of wanted to representthe underdog and, look, I ended
up doing criminal defense.
But I'll take this moment, if Imay, to kind of touch on the
(40:47):
small misconception how, whenyou tell people that you do
criminal defense, they eitherbase it on TV shows or Dateline
or all these shows out therethat are just the worst of the
worst right, the worst of theworst crimes you can think of.
Right, and they're out there.
I've had them right.
I had to represent peoplecharged with those cases.
But my whole point is I'vealways been the type of person
(41:10):
to tell people.
The reason I'm in this positionis not to help people get away
with committing crimes.
I'm there to make sureeverybody does their job the way
it's supposed to be done,without anybody getting taken
advantage of.
And that was my whole thing thewhole time when I was doing
criminal defense and even now inpersonal injury.
(41:30):
I'm here to make sure thateverybody gets that fair shake,
as some people call it right,gets competent representation,
doesn't get taken advantage of.
And I'll tell you what, man.
You wouldn't expect it for someof these big law firm attorneys
that I go up against.
You would think they conductthemselves professionally and
that they don't want to doanything shady.
(41:52):
But that's not always the case,and a few times I've had to
actually turn on the whole theass-chewing on them, because
sometimes they get out of line,and you have to.
You just have to check it, man.
Sometimes they get out of lineand you have to.
You just have to check in, man.
And it goes back to my wholeMarine Corps experience, because
I think if it wasn't for thatand just everything else I lived
through, I don't know that Iwould be as confident enough to
(42:13):
like put a stop to theirshenanigans, right, because of
how long they've been practicingor how long, how long they've
been in the area of law.
But sometimes you got to do itand I think that's what drives
me, man.
There's no better feeling forme than showing up with my
client right now in a personalinjury case and just showing up
(42:33):
to these fancy law firms thatare huge, super tall buildings
right Walk in there and you knowI'm grateful that I get to do
that and be like, all right,we're here, but guess what?
You have to go through me firstand then you know like we'll
talk about it.
You can't just the clients arehere alone.
So that's a great feeling.
It's kind of like.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
It makes me kind of feel like I'm still serving the
community, serving the peoplethrough law.
Yeah, that's absolutely huge.
I was talking to a Medal ofHonor recipient once and he was
telling me the differencebetween a job and a career is a
career is soul-fulfilling.
I guess folks like us kind ofalways have that desire to serve
a bigger purpose.
It's not about the moneynecessarily.
It's about making a differenceis what's important.
(43:24):
Have you done any volunteerwork for the military community?
I found you through Bastard'sCanteen social media, I know you
did some speaking events withthem.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, so before that I was working at this nonprofit
out here in San Diego called SaySan Diego.
This is before law school and Iused to do case management for
military families right here inSan Diego.
This is before law school and Iused to do case management for
military families right here inSan Diego and my way of being
involved with the veteran activeduty community is anybody any
law student who's veteran activeduty or anything that has to do
(44:00):
with that I reach out and Imake sure that I connect with
them and that I provide whatevermentorship I can out and I make
sure that I connect with themand that I provide whatever
mentorship I can.
And sometimes that gets them tothe next level, like this
Marine veteran that I met.
He's a law student, he justpassed the bar actually.
He met me, we met and Iconnected him with one of the
justices at the Court of Appeal,justice Castillo.
He's a Marine veteran too andhe's on that.
(44:23):
So there's a state level andthere's a court of appeal and
then the California SupremeCourt.
So I get back to the communitythat way and I also I always
tell veterans whatever yourproblem is.
Here's my cell phone.
Anything legal related, call me.
I'm not going to charge you.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Obviously, you know, and if I don't do the area law,
if I can't help you, I'm goingto make sure you get connected
to somebody who can and it wasnot just going to take your
money or just take advantage ofyou and just leave Right, right,
yeah, I mean a lot of timeshaving that trust, that
authenticity, especially in thefield of being an attorney.
(45:00):
A lot of people can don't havea really good outlook on that.
It's kind of like, again,people base everything off of,
like Hollywood, you know moviesand things like that and some of
the worst cases out there.
So finding someone that you cantrust and you having been a
Marine is a huge reputationbooster and a huge trust booster
for a lot of folks out there.
(45:21):
Leo, I just wanted to ask you,before we round things out off
here on the podcast if you hadan opportunity to tell a young
Marine today who's getting readyto transition into the civilian
world but isn't sure what'snext, what advice would you give
them?
Speaker 2 (45:47):
thing I would tell them is you don't have to do
this alone.
Reach out to anybody that youknow who's done it successfully,
who has transitioned, whetherit's the area of the field you
want to get into or not, whetherit's finance, law, med school
even if you don't want to dothose things, they did it.
Reach out for some mentorship,reach out for some help.
I know we're used to doingthings on our own.
We're always especially comingfrom the military like I'll do
this on my own.
I can do this right, but guesswhat?
(46:09):
Sometimes that's not the case.
I had a lot of people thathelped me transition into the
civilian world and get to thenext step and get to where I am
now.
It's just if you do good inthis world, good comes back to
you.
So that's the number one thingI would tell them.
And do your research on thescholarships, just like you were
mentioning around thescholarships for the nonprofit
(46:30):
you're a member of, and vocrehab.
Look into everything.
Tap into all the resourcesbefore you have to do the whole
GI Bill and your actual benefits, and remember that you're not
alone and you don't have to doit alone and whatever you want
to do, you can do it.
Just remember where you comefrom, remember what you've done
(46:52):
up until the time that it's timeto transition, and plan early.
Plan early before you end upwith no plan at all once you get
out.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
That's great advice.
A lot of people take forgranted the sacrifices that
their parents have made for themand they don't really think
much of it, and a lot of timeswhenever I thought you know,
what should I do in my situation, I thought about the sacrifices
that my dad made for me growingup and I never wanted anything
(47:21):
that he ever did for me to go invain, so I always felt like I
had to do this.
This is something I have to doto make him proud, and
definitely you made your dadproud, no doubt about it.
I did not mean to gloss overthis, but I wrote this down
while you were talking.
The California bar is one ofthe toughest exams in the United
(47:42):
States for anyone looking tobecome an attorney.
Can you talk about that realquick and just like how the hell
did you get over that hugeobstacle?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Man, my reaction says it all right, it's just like
man that exam.
You know, I'll be honest, Idespise that exam with a lot of
not so good energy, but it'sjust.
I think it's more of a hazingprocess.
Whenever I talk to people aboutit, especially former military,
they know exactly what I meanby a hazing process.
Right, it has nothing to dowith the type of attorney you're
(48:13):
going to be right.
You go to law school for threeyears, which I think shouldn't
even be three years, to behonest with you.
I think it should be at mosttwo years and you know, they
teach you how to read case law,how to do research, how to apply
the law to the facts.
Once you get to the exam when Itook it, it used to be three
days, three days of six-hourtesting with one-hour break, and
(48:35):
you literally have to memorizeapproximately 19 subjects of law
, just everything.
Because you don't know whereyou're going to be tested on the
first day or the second day orthe third day.
You can do process ofelimination once day one is over
, like all right, they tested onevidence or they tested on
criminal procedure, so thatthey're not going to test on
(48:56):
that again, right, and go inthere and you have to perform.
It's a performance test.
It's just three hours in themorning, one hour lunch and then
three hours in the afternoonfor three days and it sucked.
It sucked but it's notimpossible.
It's not impossible.
(49:16):
A lot of people have done itbefore me, after me and
whoever's out there that wantsto do it and is about to do it.
You got this.
But the third day when I tookit, I woke up with a high fever
thing and I was like man.
Good thing I packed Tylenolbecause I think my body was just
giving out because, leading upto the test, you study for
almost almost 30 months, everysingle day, seven days a week,
(49:37):
and some people are better thanothers setting boundaries as far
as days off or, you know, breaktime.
But I was just like I got tostudy more because if not, I'm
not going to.
You know, I'm not going to beable to do it.
So when I, when I passed, thepassage rate was 32% of the test
takers that passed it and itwas tough.
It was tough and it's just.
(49:59):
I think it was a lot to do withjust the whole military
discipline, because I don't knowif I would have pushed through.
Maybe I don't know, but Ialways like to say, you know,
like the discipline I learnedand I gained through the
military is what pushed methrough all the way to where I
am now.
You know, even with jury trials, it's just one of those things.
(50:20):
You know, a lot of people callthemselves trial attorneys and
then if you talk to them you'rekind of like, okay, well, how
many trials have you done?
Or X, y and Z, right.
So it's just one of thosethings where you have to have
the experience and the it factorto do it right.
But yeah, that exam test, Ithink now it's two days.
(50:41):
I can't speak on the difficultyof it because I didn't take it,
but I know that, yeah, you'reright man.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
It's one of the hardest tests.
I think New York has another,the hardest ones too.
Yeah, I've heard nothing butjust horror stories about how
difficult the California bar is,and I just think that military
folks are just built differently.
The fact that you went in onthe last day and you could have
called in or you could have justtapped out and you said a hell
with it, I'll just go take someTylenol and drive on, I mean
that that reminds me of likewhen I went through aerosol
school and the last uh, big ruckmarch that we did I can't
(51:15):
remember how many miles it was,it was seemed like forever as
aerosol.
Last one, there was a femalenurse and she stood by me in
formation the entire like twoweeks Was it two weeks or three,
I don't remember but on thelast day, like she broke both
ankles, like she broke both ofher feet and she made it.
(51:37):
Like she, like she made it.
I'm thinking, damn, like that'sgot to be one of the toughest
nurses out there to like want toget it that bad.
I was like, damn, that wastough man and I just think
military people were just builtdifferently.
Like that man, like we get upearlier, we just rub uh, you
know salt on it and drive on andtake the talon on, shove a
(51:58):
band-aid on it and we're good togo.
And, man, that that's.
That's incredible, that thatyou were able to overcome so
much, especially you being theoldest brother man.
Good, good on you for actuallyleading by example, leo.
No, man, it's an honor to speakto guys.
It's refreshing to speak toguys like you and that are out
there doing it leading the way.
Was there anything that Ididn't mention in this podcast
(52:20):
that you'd like to mentionbefore we end in the the show
today?
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Oh, in the show today .
Oh, it's just thank you forhaving me.
You really appreciate it andI'm glad you decided to do this
podcast and I know you're goingto keep doing great things and
keep pushing forward with it.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
You brought up some really great points today, man.
I mean some of the things youtalked about with transition,
making sure that you utilizeyour GI Bill, because I'll tell
you right now it hurts my heartbecause I know several people
that got out and they never usedtheir GI Bill and they let it
expire.
Well, now I know there's noexpiration on it and you can
also transfer it now, but backin the day, you know, the 90s
(52:56):
and the 2000s didn't have thatoption.
But just not taking advantageof those benefits I think is
huge.
Definitely want to echo likesome of the things that you said
here today.
As far as transitioning intoyour next career and preparing
yourself.
Leo, your journey from theMarines to the courtroom is a
powerful example of what itmeans to live with purpose,
protection of others and caringfor that warrior spirit To our
listeners.
If you're someone who isnavigating the tough terrain of
(53:17):
transition, this episode shouldbe your blueprint.
You can follow Leo and hismission to serve justice on
Instagram at your underscorelawyer underscore Leo.
That's L-E-O and Leo.
I just want to ask you realquick Are you on any other
social media platforms?
Speaker 2 (53:35):
I'm on TikTok the same handle of your lawyer Leo,
or, yeah, your lawyer Leo, sameway you described it.
And, yeah, if anybody's outthere interested in
transitioning to law, if youneed anything, just talk to a
friend, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
Awesome.
I'll make sure I tag you onthose TikToks as well, because
I'm on TikTok as well.
I'm on TikTok, LinkedIn,Instagram, Facebook.
I try to be on all of them, butit's kind of hard.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
It's the same one, the same handle from what I
remember, but yeah, it's thesame one.
The same handle from what Iremember, but yeah, it's the
same chicken right now, I'm likeyou know sometimes, yeah, it's
the same one.
Your underscore warrior,underscore Leo.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Okay, cool, I'll add you on there For everyone else
out there listening.
Make sure you follow, subscribeand share this episode with
someone who needs to hear it.
Until next time, I want you tostay tuned, stay focused and
stay motivated.
Warriors fall out.
Warriors fall in.
It's time for formation.
Welcome back to the podcastfolks, where we dive deep into
the real stories of leadership,survivability, adapting from
beyond the uniform.
Today we're honored to have aguest whose path speaks to grit,
growth and give back.
From a young Marine leadingtroops at 18 years old to a
California-based lawyerdefending clients of both
(00:25):
criminal and personal injury law, leo Fuentes embodies what it
means to adapt and overcome.
Not only does he serve ourcountry with honor from his
veteran experience, but he's nowserving the justice system with
purpose.
So let's welcome to the show.
Marine Corps veteran attorneyand brother in the fight for
what's right.
Leo Fuentes, thank you forjoining me today, man.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you for the invite.
Kp.
Appreciate it, brother.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Listen, man, the honor is all mine.
It truly is, man.
I know you have a very,extremely busy schedule.
I've been slammed with the fluthe last two days and I was like
there's no way I'm canceling onthis guy because we already had
the reschedule once.
So thank you for being soflexible, man.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thanks, because we already had the reschedule once.
So thank you for being soflexible, man.
Thanks, it's all good, it's allgood.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So, leo, I want you to take us back to your mindset
after high school.
What led you to join themilitary, specifically the
Marine Corps, and whatultimately drove your decision
to sign on the dotted line andtake that step forward.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah.
So to be honest with you, KP,it was just one of those things
where I felt like it was my dutyto serve, mainly because I
wanted to give back to thiscountry.
It gave me the opportunity toget here.
I was originally born in Mexico, so I was brought here and I
felt that it was just the rightthing to do.
And also, my close friends werejoining.
They joined before me, rightafter high school and, you know,
(01:45):
not to mention, I wanted tothrow on the dress blues at some
point right One day.
But yeah, it was more likeservice to country and it's just
to give back and do my time, domy duty.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
When you were brought up, though I mean, I can tell
you that serving in the militaryand willingly signing on the
dotted line to go away and go toboot camp or basic training or
anything like that, that's notan easy task.
I mean, a lot of my friendswere not doing that, they were
going straight to college, and alot of them actually looked at
the military as a last resort.
(02:21):
I looked at it as kind of likehow you did, because my dad
served for 20 years and Ithought, okay, well then, I
guess I'll just go into themilitary too, but was there any
other encouragement as far as,like, family members that helped
push you in the military, orwas it just kind of on your own
journey?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, so I'm the oldest out of four boys my poor mom,
right, no daughters.
So I was the oldest out of thefour boys.
I didn't really have anybody toteach me or lead me, but what I
did know is that I needed to dobetter and go to college.
Go to school, get a career, andI knew that the military was a
great stepping stone fordiscipline and the experience of
(03:01):
leadership.
And just everybody who I metthat joined the Marine Corps was
happy and happy that they didit.
And then they came out and theyjust talked about how they
transformed them and I think itgoes to all the branches, right,
you go in one person and youcome out a different person with
growth.
But one of the things too thatkind of drove me to join was I
(03:22):
needed to get the heck out of mytown.
At the time my town wasn't whatit is now.
Now you have nice restaurants,nice breweries, it's a great,
great community.
We even have a downtown now andat the time it was just fields.
And growing up I've experienceda lot of a lot of like run-ins
with the local gangs and, youknow, trying to defend myself or
(03:45):
defending my brother, and youknow my father was actually
robbed and shot at one of thelocal markets and I remember,
like it was yesterday, my momwas banging on the door, I was
finishing taking a shower andshe was like they shot your dad.
They shot your dad and I waslike what?
And it was just like surreal.
So I went over there and justthings like that drove me like I
(04:07):
need to do better, I need toget out of here, I need to go,
make something out of myself andthen come back.
Come back and get my family,get my family out of this
neighborhood.
But now, like I said, they'reliving there now and it's a lot
better and yeah, it's just lifeexperiences better and yeah,
(04:28):
it's just life experiences.
And at the time, you know, Ithink I was just trying to fall,
trying to falling into, kind offalling into like the wrong
crowd.
So I'm like I need to go.
I need to go.
I was, I was offered to jointhe local gang I don't even want
to call it offered, right.
I was asked right, but luckilyI was.
I was smart enough to say youknow what, I'll get back to you,
I'll get back to you next week.
And I just never got back tothem.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Instead, I joined the Marine Corps.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now, was there any kind of delay after high school
joining the Marines, or did yougo right in?
No, yeah.
So after high school, all mybuddies joined and they were off
to boot camp and I wasrecruiting out of one specific
office and what happened is Ihadn't not received the specific
document that I needed to join.
So then the recruiter just kindof dropped me and looking back
at it, you know I get it.
You know I might've wanted himto be a lot cooler about it and
(05:17):
I ignore my phone calls and justkind of ghost me, but it is
what it is now Right.
So I ended up going to collegefirst semester and I was leaving
my first period class and I waswalking by the campus and I see
this Marine and his Charliesstacked and his ribbons are just
stacked, impressive, with hisjust looking like he would pass
(05:38):
inspection right.
So I walked past him literallyand then something inside of me
told me go back and talk to him.
I don't know why, I don't knowfor what reason, but other than
it's meant to be right, I am abeliever in God and the universe
and things happen for a reason.
So I went back, I talked to himand, sure enough.
(05:59):
After that he's like let metalk to you, come see me in my
office.
I ended up recruiting out ofanother office and it was kind
of like on the download, becausehe told me I'm not supposed to
be here.
But if I can get you in andhelp you out, I'll do it.
It's like you were never here.
It was one of those.
You were never here.
I never saw you, you know.
So I recruited out of adifferent recruiting station,
(06:22):
out of a different recruitingstation.
But you know another interestingthing at MEPS I, the day you
know the day for the MarineCorps at least I don't know how
it is for other branches, butfor the Marine Corps you go to
MEPS and then, right after MEPS,you do your final medical and
then you're off to bootcamp thenext day.
That day I ran into therecruiter who kind of just
(06:42):
stopped taking my calls and heasked me like, what are you
doing here?
And, like I said, it was somuch pride.
I was like I'm joining, that'swhat I'm doing here, you know.
So I was like.
So then I was like, and I justlike kept walking because it was
my turn to do whatever they'rehaving us do for the medical
exam.
But it's so interesting howlike just things come back.
Sometimes things come back fullcircle.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You know, I never thought I was going to see him
again, but I saw him and then Iwas off to bootcamp and and
joined man.
It is a small world, especiallyin the military community.
I I ran into one of my drillsergeants when I was in Iraq.
I ran into sergeant majors thatworked for my dad back in the
day.
So it's a small military man.
You run into people all thetime.
But was there any?
Was there ever?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
a moment when you felt like this was meant to be.
Yeah, I think it was.
It was that specific moment.
And then, you know, when Igraduated, when I graduated
bootcamp, that was the firsttime I saw my dad cry.
Actually, my dad wasn't anemotional guy, he wasn't really
a lovey-dovey type of guy.
He was always.
That's how he was raised, right.
So when I graduated boot campand they told us I were
(07:53):
dismissed, I found him and myfamily and then next thing I
know I see him just bawling andI was like, well, I've never
seen this, but I think that washis way of saying that he was
proud.
But I think that was his way ofsaying you know that he was
proud.
But I think at that moment thegraduation days when I feel like
it's all worth it, this is,this is meant to be, and this is
only the beginning, because Iknow that there's more.
(08:14):
There's more.
At the time I didn't knowwhether I was going to stay in
or not or get out.
But yeah, once it was all done,it was said and done, I was
like this is the right decision.
I in and done.
I was like this is the rightdecision, I feel good, I'm proud
.
Let's go.
What's next?
Right, let's see where lifetakes me.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, the oldest brother helping pave the way
there for the rest of theyounger ones.
I mean, that's reallyimpressive, man.
I mean I'm the youngest in myfamily and I'm pretty much the
only one that made it out, youknow.
So it's good on you, man, forbeing a true leader at such a
young age.
After you got through boot campin the Marines, what was your
first leadership experience like?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So the first?
Well, first I want to say thankyou for your service, kp.
I know I don't know if I've gota chance to say that, but thank
you for your continued service.
Thank you for doing thispodcast.
We appreciate you.
It's definitely motivating.
When I first saw it I was likeman, that's motivating.
Trash right there, heck, yeah,you know.
So thanks for that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
It's an honor.
It's an honor to talk to folkslike you, man, it really is.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Thanks, brother, I appreciate it.
The interesting thing is, whenI got to, so I was stationed in
Japan, the first duty station,right.
And next thing, I know I'm 19years old, I'm in charge of
37-year-olds or 35-years-old andyou know, because you know it's
based off rank in the militaryand I was fortunate enough to
(09:32):
get promoted to the NCO ranksand then I was there, I was like
whoa, now I'm supposed to tellthese guys what to do, I'm
supposed to lead them.
So at the time it was a littlescary, a little cautious,
because you're talking about a19-year-old guy who's never been
anywhere, he's just startinghis life right.
(09:53):
But I was really grateful thatthe military, the Marine Corps,
allowed me the opportunity tolearn, because I'll tell you
what KP.
I've seen it in the military andeven out in the civilian world,
in the legal field too.
There's a big differencebetween leading other people,
leading a team, and leading yourown life.
(10:14):
There's a lot of people that Iin the legal community have done
a great job leading their lifeto get to where they are, their
achievements, but then you putthem in a situation where they
need to lead a team now or theyneed to do other things.
Some of them don't really knowhow to do it, and obviously, too
, no fault of their own right.
But I think it just goes toshow you that, whatever branch
you join, remember that youpicked up some skills One of
(10:38):
them is leadership, another oneis the grit and just remember
who you are and don't limityourself.
Don't limit yourself to whatyou can do.
If you want to do something, doit, try it.
What's the worst?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
that can happen.
It doesn't happen.
You get to try again, Right,Yep?
You just pick yourself up andyou keep on going.
That's part of leadership.
Man is failing and then gettingback up and then figuring it
out and trying to improve everytime.
So how would you say that yourleadership roles in the Marines
affect how you now lead your lawpractice?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I think that the discipline is one of the things
that stands out.
And talking to people, becausewhen you're in charge of people
in the military, you have to beable to get to know your troops,
your team, your colleagues, andyou can't talk to everybody the
certain way right.
That transfers over to myclients.
(11:34):
For example, when I used to docriminal defense, I couldn't
talk to every single person thesame way because everybody's
different right.
Some people were more angry,other people were more chill,
and even now talking to otherattorneys too, like opposing
counsel, that also appliesAdapting and overcoming
situations right, for example,for my clients.
(11:55):
When I used to do criminaldefense, some of them were
really angry.
A lot of them were vets too.
So what I noticed is that oncethey found out that I was
military, they gave me an extralayer of trust.
They gave me kind of theconfidence that they wanted to
do in their attorney right, andI think it matters.
(12:17):
It matters how you talk topeople.
It matters how you lead people.
You have to lead your clients,too when it comes to whether or
not they should go to trial,because sometimes you have to be
very cautious of what you do,because at the end of the day,
if you go to trial, nothing'sguaranteed right.
You're giving your future, theoutcome, to 12 members of the
community, so you have to beable to know how to lead them in
(12:37):
the right direction, what'sbest for them, including in
criminal defense or in personalinjury as well.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, that's actually a really great point.
You got to have those softskills in there.
I know that a lot of peoplethink they watch Full Metal
Jacket and they think that a lotof military leaders lead that
way, where it's just in yourface and you'll do it now or
you'll get skull fucked orsomething like that.
But in reality you have tolearn how to work with people,
(13:06):
whether it's civilians.
I know when I was working atbattalion as the S3, I had to
work with contractors to getwhat I wanted, and having that
attitude was not going to helpme at all.
So I had to learn how to havethe gift of gab, I guess you
could say to get to theobjective, whatever it was,
whatever I needed to get at thattime.
(13:26):
So I wanted to ask you what aresome of the things that you've
experienced?
I know for me, like working inthe civilian sector for a while,
there are somemisunderstandings about military
leadership, military leadershiptraining.
What are some of the thingsthat civilians often
misunderstand about theleadership, training or
(13:48):
responsibility that veteranscarry?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I think that a lot of times a lot of the veterans are
misunderstood.
I've run into people in thecivilian world and the legal
field where if you have asoldier or an airman or a Marine
or whatever branch they were in, and they may not be performing
at the top-notch level thatthey're capable of, right, but
(14:12):
they're judged.
They're judged by saying, oh,like this guy, this guy was in
the Marine Corps and he can'teven get any clients, or X, y
and Z right, or he's not makingany money, whatever the reason
is right.
But I think that a lot of timespeople judge the branch
individually just based on oneperson or based on people that
(14:33):
they may run into, who they haveno idea what they're dealing
with, what demons are battlingor what they're going through.
So I noticed that and it kindof I don't want to say it
bothers me, but it just kind oflike, kind of sucks right,
because I do feel for them,because I feel like they may not
be at their full potentialright now.
But you got to work at it.
I didn't just get out of bedone day and you know like, oh, I
(14:54):
have all this right.
It's step by step, you got towork on it, and one of the
things I struggled with when Igot out of the military was
remembering that I wasn't inactive duty anymore.
I remember in undergrad I wantedto lock on people.
It's crazy.
I think back and I'm like Itold myself wait, you can't be
trying to lock people on or likeyell at them because they're
(15:18):
not acting the way people wereacting when they're active duty.
It's like it's not.
That's not it right, so thatalong with just getting the
skills to, like you said, talkto other people, everybody talks
to other people a different way.
People don't listen if you yellat them or you got to tell them
a certain way.
But that's one of the thingsthat I noticed.
(15:39):
I noticed that the judgingright and I think people just
have to remember that Just bekind and just be.
Keep in mind that noteverybody's at their full
potential when you first meetthem and you know, some people
just haven't tapped into thefull potential.
So it's okay.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, I run across a lot of stereotypes a lot of
times.
There was a lot of things thatI was stereotypical of until I
went to war and I had to workwith Marines and I had to work
with the Air Force, and I had towork with other branches.
And I'll tell you like therewas an Air Force unit, like
(16:20):
where I was at in Iraq, and theydid the same job I did.
They went outside the wire,they got, they got tuned up
complex ambush, ieds, all kindsof crazy stuff.
And then there was Marines Iworked with and man, where the
when the rubber meets the roadand you guys have to depend on
each other, you gain morerespect for other branches as
well.
I mean the Marines.
(16:40):
I was really impressed with howprofessional they were, how on
point they were.
I was impressed by that AirForce unit very much, so that
did the same job that I did.
They had to show up and showout too, just like everybody
else.
So I completely understandwhere you're coming from.
On that, leo, when you startedto transition out of the Marines
, what was your mindset?
(17:01):
What was?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
your mindset.
So I actually, if I could tellyoung Marines, young soldiers,
young airmen that are a year,two years in start planning now,
because that was my mindset.
My mindset was at the time theywere given 100% tuition
assistance.
So in my mind I was like, whythe heck am I not going to take
(17:27):
advantage of this?
You're telling me I can go toschool 100% tuition coverage and
save my GI bill for when I getout I was like, why wouldn't I
right?
So I've always the mindset wasalways do anything that will
make you more knowledgeable,make you a better person and
help you grow Always.
(17:48):
And I remember when I wasstationed in Japan, my buddies
in my unit would actually waitfor me to finish my assignment,
hit the submit button and thenit was the party time.
So, looking back at it, theyeven tell me now a lot of them
are law enforcement too.
They're part of differentfederal agencies DEA, fbi,
(18:10):
department of State.
They're all successful lawenforcement also.
And they tell me, dude, they'relike I remember when we would
wait for you to submit yourassignments and they're just
like I wish we would have doneit sooner.
I'm like it doesn't matter,brother, you're here now.
You're here now You're here now, right, it's all good, props to
you, you made it right.
(18:32):
But yeah, that was my mindsetthe whole time Start planning
because, look, there's nothingwrong with doing 20, 30 years in
the military, nothing wrong atit, right, it's whatever you
want to do.
But you just never know whathappens.
And I've heard a lot of storiesof motivators in the Marine
Corps and other branches thatwanted to do 20, 30 years but
unfortunately they got injured.
And then what's even moreunfortunate is that they didn't
(18:52):
have a plan B to transition intoright and they end up at places
where they can do more right.
They can do more, they can domore in the community, more for
people, but because they didn'thave the plan B or they didn't
start planning for analternative, they have to do
that and kind of go through thatrough patch.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Right, yeah, that.
I mean that definitely there'sa transition for sure.
And that's great advice to getstarted transitioning as soon as
you.
Because I knew guys that when Iwas in I would ask them like,
hey, are you taking time to goto the education center?
And they're like no, sir, I'mdoing 20 years.
(19:32):
And I knew one of those guyswho said he was doing 20 years
ended up getting medical doubtagainst his will and that's just
life.
I mean, the best place to be isa place where you can
transition or you have lateralmobility when life happens.
And so when they, when theystarted medicaling him out, he
(19:52):
was just kind of like no, Idon't know what I'm going to do
now, you know.
So it's definitely you alwaysneed to invest in yourself, but
how long did it take for you todiscover your fullest potential
after leaving active duty?
Like, at what point did yousign up to go to law school and
everything else?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Man.
That's another one of thosemoments where I think it was
just, it was meant to be and Ithink again it was just.
I think my story was writtenalready, I just didn't know
about it.
I ended up going to ask forlegal help at a legal aid
society clinic and I talked tothe attorney, got the advice I
went to get and I went to my carand I literally turned on.
(20:30):
My car was about to pull outand something again inside me
told me ask to volunteer.
So I did.
I turned my car off, walkedback into the legal clinic and I
told the retired attorney doyou think I can volunteer, Like
whatever you have like, can Ivolunteer?
And he said, yeah, definitely.
So I ended up volunteering foralmost two years while I was an
(20:51):
undergrad at this legal aidclinic and it was at different
branches or different locations.
And it just got to the pointwhere I got tired of telling
people I'm sorry, we can't helpyou, we don't have the resources
to represent you in court,we're going to have to refer you
out.
Hopefully they do your case probono or hopefully we can
connect you with an attorney.
So then I was just like what,if I go to law school.
(21:13):
What's the worst that canhappen?
They say no.
So it was a big step.
I even talked to my parents andagain, I didn't know anybody
that even went to law school orapplied to law school.
So I talked to them.
I said you know what I'm goingto try, and if it doesn't happen
, it doesn't happen.
(21:37):
So of course they weresupportive yeah, whatever.
No, because they themselvesdidn't get the opportunity to
get an education.
So of course they're going tosay, yeah, do it, but as far as
guidance or anything like that,they really didn't have it
because they didn't get anopportunity to go higher
education themselves.
So I applied and then the nextthing I know, I get in.
And then that just takes you tothe other point.
(22:00):
I was going to talk to youabout how we all find each other
.
You know who I found the firstweek in orientation.
I found one of my best friendswho was in air force and another
guy that was in the army, andthen I think, another guy too
that was in the army and we justkind of gravitated to each
other and we just, for whateverreason, we find each other, no
matter where we go, whetherthey're judges, deputy sheriffs,
(22:22):
law enforcement, and I'll tellyou what right.
That is amazing, like it's just.
It's hard to explain, but Iknow you've experienced it too.
Like you meet another veteran,someone else who served,
immediately.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
You kind of bond, you have a special bond with each
other, right, even though youknow each other right someone
standing, they're just theirposture and, by the way, they're
able to socialize and just talkand look you in the eye and
have a conversation with you,whether or not they've stood in
formation before and actuallyhad a leadership position at one
(22:59):
point in their lives.
Because I know you, youmentioned it earlier I mean 18,
19, 20 years old, especially inthe Marines.
They throw you in leadershippositions and you're standing in
front of people and in chargeof people early on, whereas,
like a college kid, 18, 19, 20,21 years old, they don't get
that experience.
They don't get that trueleadership experience on how to
interact and how to lead.
And I think that's what kind offorms us?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, and I know, I don't know if you experienced
this, but one of the things Iwas kind of I guess I struggled
with too is sometimes in thecivilian world you're in a
certain position, just based ontiming, grade type of thing,
right, and sometimes you wouldbe told some things and then my
other buddies that were in themilitary too, I would tell them
(23:45):
like man, they act as if we'venever been in a leadership
position, like you know, becauseyou know how some companies or
law firms or whatever, likewherever you go, you have your
manager, you have your assistantmanager, right.
So then when they kind of tryto lecture you on how to lead or
leadership treasure, like wejust looked at each other and
we're just like man, I guess Iforget that we've already like
(24:06):
kind of done that a little,maybe a little bit, maybe I know
a thing or two, right, but youjust got to go with it, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You know and that leads me to something else too.
I think it was on one of yourreels you had mentioned
something pretty powerful andyou said don't expect civilians
to act like the people you servewith or you had served with.
So can you unpack that for usand what that actually means?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah.
So one of the things that Inoticed is that sometimes,
especially when I first got out,I was holding people that never
served the same standards thatmy fellow NCOs were working on
or operating on.
And sometimes some people it'sjust kind of more relaxed.
They're not really like I needto get this done and that done,
(24:51):
and you got to push forward orlike no breaks right, and you
just got to be understandingthat not everybody is going to
operate as if they were in themilitary, and I think you'll
save yourself a lot of headacheswhen you finally accept that.
Because at first it was hardfor me because I was like, well,
we wouldn't do it that way, orI wouldn't do it that way, or we
(25:12):
wouldn't do it that way, or Iwouldn't do it that way, or my
buddy wouldn't do it that way.
But I think you just liketorment yourself by having these
high expectations of people andthen they don't follow through
and then at the end of the day,you're the one left with the
stress.
You know what?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
That is very powerful and I think a lot of veterans
need to understand that.
It took me a long time tounderstand that perspective,
that especially, you know, beinga combat veteran, I can't
expect the guy that went tocollege right after high school
to understand what it's like tolead a patrol or a convoy
through some of the mostdeadliest supply routes in a war
(25:45):
zone when they've never evenleft their own state, like, I
think, that veterans, when theyunderstand that, when they
understand their perspectives ofthe other side, that's called
meeting in the middle, so that Ican gain my sanity and my
understanding and myperspectives better by
understanding that most of thefolks that I deal with or
(26:05):
interact with on a daily basisare not going to have the same
experiences as me.
And once I understood that Iwas like, okay, now I have more
patience, I'm not getting asfrustrated, you know, and I
think that that's reallyimportant, like what you just
mentioned just now.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And go ahead.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No no go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, no, I was going to share an experience that
where that happened with an Armymedic.
An Army medic was one of myclients and it was my first dead
body case.
It was a vehicular manslaughter.
So this guy was charged withvehicular manslaughter.
He had deployed many times Armymedic he's seen a lot of stuff,
right and his family didn'tunderstand what you were just
(26:55):
talking about, like the militarybonding, the military
leadership, but him and I wereseen eye to eye and we were
operating on the same level thatwe were just talking about,
because he also served.
And his family actually told himone day because at the time I
was working as a public offender, which is, as you know, it's a
free council for whatever cityor county you're in, right.
(27:16):
But what a lot of people don'tknow is that they actually have
the most trial experience andhandling of cases and more
resources than most privateattorneys.
But that's a whole nother story, right?
So his family pretty much toldhim hey, we got you a private
attorney, we're going to paygood money, you're going to have
the best representation that wefound, and you know what?
(27:37):
Kp.
I'll tell you what.
Even till now, I was taken backbecause he told him no, I trust
Leo.
He's my fellow veteran.
I'm going to stay with him.
I don't care that we're notpaying him anything Like.
I trust him and we're going todo this.
We're going to go to trial.
I was like we are going to go totrial because the circumstances
were essentially there weren'tany really options.
(27:59):
No real options.
It was more no understanding ofwhat happened, no understanding
that it was really an accident,and they were coming at him
with like everything to behonest with you, and they were
coming at him with everything tobe honest with you.
They weren't really giving anyplea deals, as we would say in
that criminal defense field.
But, yeah, we went to trial andwe hung a 9-3, nine jurors
(28:23):
voted not guilty, three of themdisagreed, but at the end of the
day it resolved for areasonable offer and he didn't
have to do any jail time ornothing serious like that.
But that was one of theexperiences that I thought about
.
Right now we were talking aboutlike operating on the same
level and then the wholeleadership thing.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Wow.
So he trusted you.
His family wanted to get a muchmore expensive representation,
get a much more expensiverepresentation, and then he
decided to stay with you becauseof that brotherhood, that bond,
I guess from the military right, yeah yeah, wow, that is that.
That's a lot of trust all right, yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
But everything else, everything turned out well.
And I I still check on himevery once in a while because he
, he, he also has to battle alot of demons.
He, uh, he had ptsd from allhis deployments, all the stuff
he saw and experienced.
So every once in a while I sendhim a text like hey, man, how
you doing, like checking in, youknow, yeah that that's huge
following up with, uh, some ofyour clients making them kind of
(29:27):
a brotherhood, a brother forlife.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You know, just through your experience being in
the civilian field, being alawyer, can you speak on some of
the unseen struggles that someveterans carry with them in the
civilian life, especially havinggone through afghanistan and
iraq?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm sure that you've seen quite a few people and
represented quite a few peoplethat carry struggles yeah, as
far as, oh, yeah, my clients theclients that are presented
right, or just people that Iwork because I've seen, so I
I've got an opportunity to workwith law enforcement that have
obviously things going on too,and also clients.
(30:02):
But even with law enforcementin the court houses sometimes
they're dealing with things andI can tell they're not their
normal self.
So, like I, I've talked to someof them on the side like, hey,
what's up, brother, how youdoing, like, like, what's going
on Right?
And they just say it's one ofthose days man's like, yeah, I
know, I try to understand him,but sometimes they just have to
(30:23):
be left to deal with with thingsthe way that they want to deal
with, right.
But it requires a lot ofunderstanding, a lot of
compassion.
When it comes to my clients,even now in the personal manager
field, you have to beunderstanding and compassionate
and kind to hear them out andsee what they're going through,
right.
A lot of times all they need issomebody to talk to and to hear
(30:44):
them out.
A lot of times I had to be justthe listening ear right, and
then, once they were doneventing and telling their
grievances, they reasoned morewith me and they were on the
same page and I think a lot oftimes they're quick to just kind
of be like oh, you don't wantto take this deal, all right,
then we're going to go to trialand you're going to have to do
(31:04):
the jail time.
It's like hold on, have youtried talking to them this way
or that way?
And I've gotten a couple ofclients that are like oh, I'm so
glad that you're on my case, oreven now in personal injury,
when I had because in San Diegowe have a lot of like Navy,
marine Corps and a lot of themthat are clients in the personal
(31:26):
injury field.
They're also kind of like goodthing that you've been in too.
It's kind of like it's hard todescribe as a relief of, it's
just a sigh of relief from themLike, okay, cool, like I can you
understand like where I'm at,what I'm doing, you understand
why I can't meet you in youroffice, things like that.
But a lot of them havesometimes bad days.
Some of them are angrier, someof them are just they don't,
(31:47):
they don't really care abouttheir case.
But sometimes I have to reachout and tell them hey, this is a
really good case.
We should sit down and talkabout it.
I want to get the best resultfor you.
And sometimes they want to meetin person, sometimes they want
to meet over Zoom or video andthat's what we have to do.
I've gone to clients' housesaround 8 pm, 9 pm.
(32:08):
I'll tell you that last time Iwas in sandals, I was leaving
the gym and and then they justcalled me like hey, like I want
to talk about my case and youcan you talk about it?
And I said yeah, and we can.
We can meet tomorrow in theoffice, or like I can come down,
like you know, and I think thatgoes back to the whole like
military thing of how how weoperate.
(32:29):
Right, because for me, for you,for anybody who's serving the
military, really military thingof how we operate.
Right, because for me, for you,for anybody who's serving in
the military, really the time ofday doesn't really matter for
us.
Right, because sometimes youhad to work on the weekends, at
night, 24 hours.
So I went and I talked to theclient and he was so grateful
and he didn't care that I was insandals.
You know, it's just one ofthose things where, like it's a
(32:50):
one-on-one talk, the trust isthere.
So we.
This is, this is make it happen.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Right, yeah, I mean there are no boundaries when it
comes to leadership.
When you're in charge of peoplein the military, it's 24, 7,
365 days a year.
Man, I remember going um onholidays, picking up people you
know at the at the MP station,and and I remember my ex-wife
was like what are you doing?
And I'm like, well, like whenyou're in leadership, you're in
(33:18):
leadership.
It's 24 hours a day, seven daysa week, like there is no
boundaries on that.
So, yeah, that's that's totally.
I mean, you brought up a greatpoint with that man.
You kind of brought back somememories for me.
You know talking about, like Iguess, just everything with
brotherhood, trust andeverything.
You come from a family ofmilitary.
So out of the four males inyour family, three of you guys
(33:38):
joined the Marine Corps.
What's?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
the story behind that legacy.
So I was the first one thatjoined.
I joined enlisted ranks andthen, honestly, I didn't know
that my brothers wanted to join.
I think I was out of state foran end.
My younger brother, my youngerbrother Gio, wants to join.
And then, of course, you know,my mom and dad are like no, like
, what do you want to join?
You know, like, and he's like Ijust want to do this.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
What are the age differences between you guys?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So Gio is 10 years younger than me, like 10.
Gio is 10 years younger than me, like 10 years, 10, 11 years
younger than me.
And so it's, it's me.
And then Juan, and then Oscar,and then Gio, and then Gio's the
youngest and he, he joinedafter me, but Juan wanted to
join right after high school butunfortunately, due to an injury
(34:27):
, he had to put that off.
So then Gio joins and he's,he's, he does eight years.
And then the crazy story with mybrother Juan.
One day he calls me and he says, um, this was actually two
years ago, almost almost twoyears ago.
He calls me and says hey, Ihave a, I have an OCS date.
And it's like what, what do youmean?
(34:48):
You have an OCS date.
I didn't even know you likeapplied, I had no idea.
Like obviously, I was like well, first, congratulations, and
I'm so proud of you.
Like that's crazy, you're goingto OCS.
And like second, why didn't yousay anything?
And he's like I just wanted tomake sure it was a done deal, it
was for sure, for sure, youknow, never know.
(35:17):
He's like how to get an agewaiver?
I think at the time he was 30and but you know, under certain,
uh, certain military branches,30 year old, right, so you have
to get that waiver.
And he, he went to uh ocs andnow he's uh, he's in.
He was in south korea the lasttime I checked and now he's a
lieutenant up there and he loveshim and I'll tell you what his
demeanor and life, just thisview on life, changed because I
think it goes to and I want totie this back to earlier how we
mentioned veterans, active duty,anybody.
(35:40):
If you want to do something, donot ever let go of that dream,
of that passion, keep it andfollow through, no matter how
long it takes, because it tookmy brother 10 years to throw on
the uniform and he never let goof that.
And his view on life at the timewas well, I'm getting paid well
at this job, but I'm not happy,I'm tired of this.
(36:02):
Like it's blah, blah, blah, x,y and Z.
And he was just so pessimistic.
But as soon as he graduatedfrom OCS, like it was like a
light switch man, it.
But as soon as he graduatedfrom OCS, it was like a light
switch man.
It was just kind of like lifeis great, I'm happy.
Now it just goes to show you,no matter how long it takes.
Keep pushing, day by day.
Don't give up.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You got this wow, that's really impressive, though
.
I mean, your brother is OCS.
So I was an officer in the army.
I started out enlisted in theNational Guard and then I went
officer and I of course I catcha bunch of bunch of shit for
that, for going to the officer.
But but my old man was likehe's like, if you do 20 years,
(36:42):
I'd rather you go the officerroute.
That way you get out, you getmuch better retirement, you know
, et cetera, et cetera.
So I didn't.
At a young age I decided to gothe officer route during a time
of war, knowing that I was goingto deploy at some point, just
because I just felt a lot ofpatriotism, like for my country
man.
And so it's great to have threebrothers, man, that you can
(37:04):
share that experience with.
And what has that meant to youpersonally to have shared that
experience with your brothers?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
and it's, it's a, it's a great feeling.
Uh, I think I wish I was stillin so I could take a picture
with him.
So they got to take a picturepicture with each other in camis
.
My brother, juan, was in town,um close to uh, miramar and mcrd
here in san San Diego and hecalls me and he says do you
think I should stop by his shop?
I was like 100%, when is thenext time, when will you ever
(37:38):
get to be in camis together withthe same last name, same emblem
, same everything?
He's like you're right.
So I saw they took a picturetogether and we sent it to my
mom.
But I think it hit even moreonce they told me that.
But I think it it hit even moreonce they told me that, um,
again, I come from a family whowas like we're not all like
lovey dovey or we're not likeyou know, which is a change that
(37:58):
I've been trying to implementwithin my, with my brothers and
my parents.
But long story short, they toldme thank you for paving the way
, thank you for joining first,like because of you, you for
paving the way, thank you forjoining first, like because of
you, we, we were, uh, we wereable to join and we, we believed
that it was possible to join.
So I was kind of like man, likeit hits you like right, right
(38:19):
in the center of the chest.
It's kind of like, all right,cool, that's a good feeling,
right.
But now that I, now that I seethem, um, well, geo's out now
the other one's active duty.
But, um, now, um, I told geo gibill, you got it.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Man, you can't just let it there, leave it there,
whether you use it, or you know,if anybody has family transfer,
you got to use it for anonprofit called Act Now
Education and our entire boardis consistent of all military
community members and what we dois we go out and we get money
(38:56):
for our military community andwe go out and we get
certifications, sometimesdegrees, and we don't even touch
the GI Bill at all.
So we'll go out and we'll getproject management, professional
certifications and things likethat.
I mean that's a greatopportunity for, like your
brother, to sign up.
For Anyone that's listening tothis, go to
wwwactnoweducationorg and signup.
(39:17):
We have weekly meetings talkingabout some of the different
educational opportunitiesavailable out there.
Again, it's a nonprofit andwe're out there trying to help
with that transition process forour military community because
we know how daunting it can beand we've talked about it
several times, about theimportance of investing in
yourself while you're in serviceand starting now, even if you
(39:39):
think you're going to stay infor 20 years.
Just invest in yourself whileyou're in.
And I don't know at what point.
Was it during your time in theMarines, or was it when you got
out of the marines when youdecided that you that you had
like the spark of interest tobecoming a lawyer?
Like when did that happen?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Well, first I want to take a moment to thank you
again for that nonprofitorganization that you're part of
.
It's a big deal and there's nota lot of those out there.
So thank you so much to yourboard members too.
And, yeah, definitely go checkout the website, veterans and
anybody that's listening,because that's a great help.
You know there's very, very fewscholarships up there, so do it
.
With the lawyer thing, ithappened after.
(40:24):
I never even thought about lawschool in the first place.
It just kind of landed therebased on that legal aid society
experience where I just kind ofwanted to represent people.
I kind of wanted to representthe underdog and, look, I ended
up doing criminal defense.
But I'll take this moment, if Imay, to kind of touch on the
(40:47):
small misconception how, whenyou tell people that you do
criminal defense, they eitherbase it on TV shows or Dateline
or all these shows out therethat are just the worst of the
worst right, the worst of theworst crimes you can think of.
Right, and they're out there.
I've had them right.
I had to represent peoplecharged with those cases.
But my whole point is I'vealways been the type of person
(41:10):
to tell people.
The reason I'm in this positionis not to help people get away
with committing crimes.
I'm there to make sureeverybody does their job the way
it's supposed to be done,without anybody getting taken
advantage of.
And that was my whole thing thewhole time when I was doing
criminal defense and even now inpersonal injury.
(41:30):
I'm here to make sure thateverybody gets that fair shake,
as some people call it right,gets competent representation,
doesn't get taken advantage of.
And I'll tell you what, man.
You wouldn't expect it for someof these big law firm attorneys
that I go up against.
You would think they conductthemselves professionally and
that they don't want to doanything shady.
(41:52):
But that's not always the case,and a few times I've had to
actually turn on the whole theass-chewing on them, because
sometimes they get out of line,and you have to.
You just have to check it, man.
Sometimes they get out of lineand you have to.
You just have to check in, man.
And it goes back to my wholeMarine Corps experience, because
I think if it wasn't for thatand just everything else I lived
through, I don't know that Iwould be as confident enough to
(42:13):
like put a stop to theirshenanigans, right, because of
how long they've been practicingor how long, how long they've
been in the area of law.
But sometimes you got to do itand I think that's what drives
me, man.
There's no better feeling forme than showing up with my
client right now in a personalinjury case and just showing up
(42:33):
to these fancy law firms thatare huge, super tall buildings
right Walk in there and you knowI'm grateful that I get to do
that and be like, all right,we're here, but guess what?
You have to go through me firstand then you know like we'll
talk about it.
You can't just the clients arehere alone.
So that's a great feeling.
It's kind of like.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
It makes me kind of feel like I'm still serving the
community, serving the peoplethrough law.
Yeah, that's absolutely huge.
I was talking to a Medal ofHonor recipient once and he was
telling me the differencebetween a job and a career is a
career is soul-fulfilling.
I guess folks like us kind ofalways have that desire to serve
a bigger purpose.
It's not about the moneynecessarily.
It's about making a differenceis what's important.
(43:24):
Have you done any volunteerwork for the military community?
I found you through Bastard'sCanteen social media, I know you
did some speaking events withthem.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, so before that I was working at this nonprofit
out here in San Diego called SaySan Diego.
This is before law school and Iused to do case management for
military families right here inSan Diego.
This is before law school and Iused to do case management for
military families right here inSan Diego and my way of being
involved with the veteran activeduty community is anybody any
law student who's veteran activeduty or anything that has to do
(44:00):
with that I reach out and Imake sure that I connect with
them and that I provide whatevermentorship I can out and I make
sure that I connect with themand that I provide whatever
mentorship I can.
And sometimes that gets them tothe next level, like this
Marine veteran that I met.
He's a law student, he justpassed the bar actually.
He met me, we met and Iconnected him with one of the
justices at the Court of Appeal,justice Castillo.
He's a Marine veteran too andhe's on that.
(44:23):
So there's a state level andthere's a court of appeal and
then the California SupremeCourt.
So I get back to the communitythat way and I also I always
tell veterans whatever yourproblem is.
Here's my cell phone.
Anything legal related, call me.
I'm not going to charge you.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Obviously, you know, and if I don't do the area law,
if I can't help you, I'm goingto make sure you get connected
to somebody who can and it wasnot just going to take your
money or just take advantage ofyou and just leave Right, right,
yeah, I mean a lot of timeshaving that trust, that
authenticity, especially in thefield of being an attorney.
(45:00):
A lot of people can don't havea really good outlook on that.
It's kind of like, again,people base everything off of,
like Hollywood, you know moviesand things like that and some of
the worst cases out there.
So finding someone that you cantrust and you having been a
Marine is a huge reputationbooster and a huge trust booster
for a lot of folks out there.
(45:21):
Leo, I just wanted to ask you,before we round things out off
here on the podcast if you hadan opportunity to tell a young
Marine today who's getting readyto transition into the civilian
world but isn't sure what'snext, what advice would you give
them?
Speaker 2 (45:47):
thing I would tell them is you don't have to do
this alone.
Reach out to anybody that youknow who's done it successfully,
who has transitioned, whetherit's the area of the field you
want to get into or not, whetherit's finance, law, med school
even if you don't want to dothose things, they did it.
Reach out for some mentorship,reach out for some help.
I know we're used to doingthings on our own.
We're always especially comingfrom the military like I'll do
this on my own.
I can do this right, but guesswhat?
(46:09):
Sometimes that's not the case.
I had a lot of people thathelped me transition into the
civilian world and get to thenext step and get to where I am
now.
It's just if you do good inthis world, good comes back to
you.
So that's the number one thingI would tell them.
And do your research on thescholarships, just like you were
mentioning around thescholarships for the nonprofit
(46:30):
you're a member of, and vocrehab.
Look into everything.
Tap into all the resourcesbefore you have to do the whole
GI Bill and your actual benefits, and remember that you're not
alone and you don't have to doit alone and whatever you want
to do, you can do it.
Just remember where you comefrom, remember what you've done
(46:52):
up until the time that it's timeto transition, and plan early.
Plan early before you end upwith no plan at all once you get
out.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
That's great advice.
A lot of people take forgranted the sacrifices that
their parents have made for themand they don't really think
much of it, and a lot of timeswhenever I thought you know,
what should I do in my situation, I thought about the sacrifices
that my dad made for me growingup and I never wanted anything
(47:21):
that he ever did for me to go invain, so I always felt like I
had to do this.
This is something I have to doto make him proud, and
definitely you made your dadproud, no doubt about it.
I did not mean to gloss overthis, but I wrote this down
while you were talking.
The California bar is one ofthe toughest exams in the United
(47:42):
States for anyone looking tobecome an attorney.
Can you talk about that realquick and just like how the hell
did you get over that hugeobstacle?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Man, my reaction says it all right, it's just like
man that exam.
You know, I'll be honest, Idespise that exam with a lot of
not so good energy, but it'sjust.
I think it's more of a hazingprocess.
Whenever I talk to people aboutit, especially former military,
they know exactly what I meanby a hazing process.
Right, it has nothing to dowith the type of attorney you're
(48:13):
going to be right.
You go to law school for threeyears, which I think shouldn't
even be three years, to behonest with you.
I think it should be at mosttwo years and you know, they
teach you how to read case law,how to do research, how to apply
the law to the facts.
Once you get to the exam when Itook it, it used to be three
days, three days of six-hourtesting with one-hour break, and
(48:35):
you literally have to memorizeapproximately 19 subjects of law
, just everything.
Because you don't know whereyou're going to be tested on the
first day or the second day orthe third day.
You can do process ofelimination once day one is over
, like all right, they tested onevidence or they tested on
criminal procedure, so thatthey're not going to test on
(48:56):
that again, right, and go inthere and you have to perform.
It's a performance test.
It's just three hours in themorning, one hour lunch and then
three hours in the afternoonfor three days and it sucked.
It sucked but it's notimpossible.
It's not impossible.
(49:16):
A lot of people have done itbefore me, after me and
whoever's out there that wantsto do it and is about to do it.
You got this.
But the third day when I tookit, I woke up with a high fever
thing and I was like man.
Good thing I packed Tylenolbecause I think my body was just
giving out because, leading upto the test, you study for
almost almost 30 months, everysingle day, seven days a week,
(49:37):
and some people are better thanothers setting boundaries as far
as days off or, you know, breaktime.
But I was just like I got tostudy more because if not, I'm
not going to.
You know, I'm not going to beable to do it.
So when I, when I passed, thepassage rate was 32% of the test
takers that passed it and itwas tough.
It was tough and it's just.
(49:59):
I think it was a lot to do withjust the whole military
discipline, because I don't knowif I would have pushed through.
Maybe I don't know, but Ialways like to say, you know,
like the discipline I learnedand I gained through the
military is what pushed methrough all the way to where I
am now.
You know, even with jury trials, it's just one of those things.
(50:20):
You know, a lot of people callthemselves trial attorneys and
then if you talk to them you'rekind of like, okay, well, how
many trials have you done?
Or X, y and Z, right.
So it's just one of thosethings where you have to have
the experience and the it factorto do it right.
But yeah, that exam test, Ithink now it's two days.
(50:41):
I can't speak on the difficultyof it because I didn't take it,
but I know that, yeah, you'reright man.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
It's one of the hardest tests.
I think New York has another,the hardest ones too.
Yeah, I've heard nothing butjust horror stories about how
difficult the California bar is,and I just think that military
folks are just built differently.
The fact that you went in onthe last day and you could have
called in or you could have justtapped out and you said a hell
with it, I'll just go take someTylenol and drive on, I mean
that that reminds me of likewhen I went through aerosol
school and the last uh, big ruckmarch that we did I can't
(51:15):
remember how many miles it was,it was seemed like forever as
aerosol.
Last one, there was a femalenurse and she stood by me in
formation the entire like twoweeks Was it two weeks or three,
I don't remember but on thelast day, like she broke both
ankles, like she broke both ofher feet and she made it.
(51:37):
Like she, like she made it.
I'm thinking, damn, like that'sgot to be one of the toughest
nurses out there to like want toget it that bad.
I was like, damn, that wastough man and I just think
military people were just builtdifferently.
Like that man, like we get upearlier, we just rub uh, you
know salt on it and drive on andtake the talon on, shove a
(51:58):
band-aid on it and we're good togo.
And, man, that that's.
That's incredible, that thatyou were able to overcome so
much, especially you being theoldest brother man.
Good, good on you for actuallyleading by example, leo.
No, man, it's an honor to speakto guys.
It's refreshing to speak toguys like you and that are out
there doing it leading the way.
Was there anything that Ididn't mention in this podcast
(52:20):
that you'd like to mentionbefore we end in the the show
today?
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Oh, in the show today .
Oh, it's just thank you forhaving me.
You really appreciate it andI'm glad you decided to do this
podcast and I know you're goingto keep doing great things and
keep pushing forward with it.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
You brought up some really great points today, man.
I mean some of the things youtalked about with transition,
making sure that you utilizeyour GI Bill, because I'll tell
you right now it hurts my heartbecause I know several people
that got out and they never usedtheir GI Bill and they let it
expire.
Well, now I know there's noexpiration on it and you can
also transfer it now, but backin the day, you know, the 90s
(52:56):
and the 2000s didn't have thatoption.
But just not taking advantageof those benefits I think is
huge.
Definitely want to echo likesome of the things that you said
here today.
As far as transitioning intoyour next career and preparing
yourself.
Leo, your journey from theMarines to the courtroom is a
powerful example of what itmeans to live with purpose,
protection of others and caringfor that warrior spirit To our
listeners.
If you're someone who isnavigating the tough terrain of
(53:17):
transition, this episode shouldbe your blueprint.
You can follow Leo and hismission to serve justice on
Instagram at your underscorelawyer underscore Leo.
That's L-E-O and Leo.
I just want to ask you realquick Are you on any other
social media platforms?
Speaker 2 (53:35):
I'm on TikTok the same handle of your lawyer Leo,
or, yeah, your lawyer Leo, sameway you described it.
And, yeah, if anybody's outthere interested in
transitioning to law, if youneed anything, just talk to a
friend, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
Awesome.
I'll make sure I tag you onthose TikToks as well, because
I'm on TikTok as well.
I'm on TikTok, LinkedIn,Instagram, Facebook.
I try to be on all of them, butit's kind of hard.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
It's the same one, the same handle from what I
remember, but yeah, it's thesame one.
The same handle from what Iremember, but yeah, it's the
same chicken right now, I'm likeyou know sometimes, yeah, it's
the same one.
Your underscore warrior,underscore Leo.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Okay, cool, I'll add you on there For everyone else
out there listening.
Make sure you follow, subscribeand share this episode with
someone who needs to hear it.
Until next time, I want you tostay tuned, stay focused and
stay motivated.
Warriors fall out.
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