Jerod Tate on the creative process of composing, his American Indian Identity and our community of artists

Stories? Questions? Thoughts? TEXT us here!

Our guest today is Jerod Impichchaachaaha' Tate, a composer, pianist and member of the Chickasaw Nation! Jerod shares valuable insights on his journey of self-discovery, embracing his roots, and the significant role they play in his artistic expression.

Jerod tells us about his creative process, how he balances artistic productivity with parenting, and the significance of finding support in challenging times. Always grateful, he is juggling life's demands like the rest of us! We loved getting to know more about the man behind the explosion of modern American Indian music, and we know you will too!

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Mentioned in this episode:

Jerod's website: https://jerodtate.com/
Rosette String Quartet on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rosetteSQ/
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Episode edited by: Emily MacMahon and Liz O’Hara

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Episode Transcript

Liz (00:00):
How was your birthday?

Steph (00:04):
It was fun, it was a good day.
Originally, my husband wasgoing to be out of town and so
he had ordered all thesesurprises to happen at my house,
so I got flowers.
And then I woke up on Saturdaymorning and I went outside
because I was going to go to thegym and there was this giant
yard sign which we'll post toour Instagram.

(00:26):
You can see what it is Giantyard sign that says Happy
Birthday Stephanie, which Ithought were kind of reserved
for children.

Liz (00:36):
No way, we're never too old .

Steph (00:41):
I was like okay, not only does everyone know it's my
birthday, but now they know myfull name and when my birthday
is.
So I got over the embarrassmentof that.
I was like this is acelebration.
I made it through one more year.
That's right.
Yes, it's my gosh darn birthday.

Liz (00:59):
That's right.

Steph (01:02):
Welcome to the Musician-Centric podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.

Liz (01:14):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you've joined us.
Let's dive in.

Steph (01:22):
My daughter's got a youth orchestra out here, and so went
to her concert.

Liz (01:27):
That was on your birthday too, that was on my birthday.

Steph (01:31):
Was that a nice birthday present too?
Yeah, I mean, it was a youthorchestra concert, but your
daughter playing.
Fine, but she played and shehappens to be principal of her
section, wow.

Liz (01:41):
Exciting, that is exciting.
Somehow, I'm not surprised.

Steph (01:45):
Well, you know, it's funny when you have kids and I'm
sure everyone who has childrenout there will also have this
opinion.
But when you have kids itbecomes very stark.
What your priorities are andwhat your kids' priorities are
do not necessarily match up.
It's just a realization thatyou have to come to that.

(02:05):
My child, even though they camelike literally from me or they
are not me they are their owndistinct human being and that
seems obvious to say.
But you know, you think of yourchildhood and what you wanted
in your childhood and that's notnecessarily what your kids are
going to want, right?
Or your students.
For people who are teachers, Ihad this conversation with

(02:26):
several people Like we who madea career out of music are like
the 5% of people who tookprivate lessons.
So your teacher, yourexpectation for yourself as a
student and the way that youcame prepared to lessons was
probably not the way themajority of people came to
lessons right?

Liz (02:44):
Yeah, or the internal motivation is different, for
sure, right?
Yes, I can't say I was everprepared for lessons, but my
goal was to just keep playingmusic all the time.
But that's not every kid'sendeavor, that's 100% true.
And, honestly, teaching becomesso much more freeing when you
just recognize that each one ofthem has their own goals.

(03:06):
Right, if you have a kid who'sjust like I, just want to do
well in my school orchestra,then you could say, okay, then
I'll coach you to do that.
That's your goal, that's whatyou want to do, and learning
this music is going to help youbecome a more well-rounded human
being, and that is at the coreof teaching.
Like it's not about making thebest musicians, it's about

(03:27):
making the best humans, andthat's what music does.
So I love that.
But I'm curious to know Iwanted to ask if it's okay.
So your daughter is principalof the orchestra, so she
obviously plays well and sheobviously does a good enough job
playing to be chosen to beprincipal of the orchestra.
How is it that you notice yourgoals are different or, like her
approach to it is differentfrom your own experience, like

(03:48):
personally experience?

Steph (03:50):
I think just that.
Well, we outright had aconversation about it Did you.
Yeah, I'm curious.
She has no motivation topractice or like for auditions
or seating auditions.
This last round is the firstorchestra that she's actually
had to do seating auditions.
So you audition to get in andthen there's seating auditions
to determine who becomes.
You know where you sit in thesection Right, so that was not a

(04:10):
priority for her at all topractice for the seating
audition, you know, then submita quality video.
It was very last minute and itmade me so anxious, Right, but
this is a going theme with meand my kids around schoolwork.
I know it's something that isvery triggering for me because I
was always you had to have yourhomework done.
I put that pressure on myself.

(04:32):
I couldn't.
The worst feeling to me wasshowing up at my lesson or at
school without my homework doneor without me having practiced.

Liz (04:39):
Sure.

Steph (04:40):
So that's just a very triggering thing for me.
But anyway, she has doesn'thave the same motivation to do
that.
She did it very last minute andit was fine, obviously it was
fine.
But I really have to talkmyself through those, those
differences.
She is not you.
Yeah, it's okay.
It's really interesting.
It's really that doesn't matter.

Liz (04:57):
That dynamic is so fascinating because it really I
know we had this funnyconversation together when we
were out to dinner with a friendnot that long ago about like
the parent kid dynamic andletting certain things happen,
or if you're really neat versusthe kid is really messy or vice
versa, whatever it is.
And it's interesting toobecause I'm curious to see if at
some point the lesson islearned for them through

(05:20):
experience.
In this case, she didn't sufferany negative consequences from
putting things off and that wastrue for me for a long time and
then ultimately, the strugglecomes when there's something you
really really, really want andyou haven't put yourself in a
position to be able to beprepared and be ready and do

(05:41):
everything you can to have thatthing, and then you don't get it
, and so that'll be aninteresting moment for you as a
parent too, I imagine.
Anyway, it's cool.
I'm glad you got to go to herconcert on your birthday.
Yeah, yeah, it was fine.

Steph (05:55):
And you made a cake that looked incredible.
Yes, because I can't not makemy own cake.
I can't leave it to chance.
Yes, someone will buy me a cakeand I'll be like oh, I could
have made a much better cake,and I enjoy the process.
So that's not a hardship for meto make my own cake.

Liz (06:14):
Does it feel a little like a gift for you to make the time
to do it?

Steph (06:18):
Yeah, I just really enjoy the process.
I love it so relaxing.
Otherwise, I was just going tosay this whole conversation
about doing what you feel yourstrengths are and guiding your
kids into doing and yourstudents into pursuing their
strengths.
I had a conversation with acashier this morning because I
was at the grocery store.
It's the week before we'rerecording this, the week before

(06:40):
Thanksgiving, and it's Mondayand I refuse to go to the
grocery store anymore than onceon the week of Thanksgiving and
I won't go past Monday.
But anyway, I was talking withthis cashier and he is a student
down in Richmond studying ASLand he said he originally
started in mechanicalengineering or something because

(07:01):
he likes to do things with hishands and he thought that was
going to be what he pursued buthe just it didn't speak to him.
And so he switched because hewants to help people and
interact with people and connectwith people, and so I just
found that I thought it was areally a great time to realize
that.

Liz (07:18):
Yeah, yeah.

Steph (07:21):
But it made me think about our Joy Loves company
group that we're going to bestarting very, very soon.

Liz (07:25):
Yes.

Steph (07:27):
And the book that we're using.
Is that creative success now,which is all about finding the
best use of your skills andartistry?

Liz (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, and so first of all, for those of you listening
to this in real time or rightas we're releasing episode, we
had our first meeting with thegroup, but it's not too late to
come together and join with us.
All you have to do is sign upon our Patreon at the $5 month
level, order the book and youcan jump in.
We're very laid back about thestructure of our group, so I

(07:58):
don't think you'd have to feellike you'd miss too much if you
were jumping in.
You know a week or two laterthan we start, so that's
important to say.
But the other thing I wanted tosay was I went down this rabbit
hole and I don't know if you'vedone it yet, but when we talked
with Astrid on the interview afew weeks back, we learned that
she has these strengths teststhat she uses and she has this
free one online that she reallylikes to recommend to her

(08:19):
students called the high fivetest, and it's really
straightforward, and I just Isent it to a bunch of people and
I was like, oh, do this, dothis?
And it was fascinating to methat of all of the people like
sort of in my innercollaborative circle, that have
shared their results with me.
So far, each one of us has acouple of things in common, and
then there's things that aredifferent.
And so it was really coolbecause it was like oh okay,

(08:40):
this is actually really usefulinformation because you know
that, then you know we allconnect in this sort of way.
Like film math was one of thethings that came up for everyone
so far that I have asked totake it and has taken it.
And film math is the concept oflifelong learning.
Like it's just this person whoalways is seeking to learn.
It makes sense that I would beconnected with a lot of people

(09:00):
that have that as a strength.
I would guess most of thepeople like I'm sure that's
going to come up for you too,you know.
So it was really interesting tosee the connection.
But then it was also oh okay,there's these other little
facets of this person'spersonality and when we get to,
when we get into a conversationabout a certain type of thing,
this is why that dynamic happensthe way it does, because

(09:23):
they're seeing it from thisperspective and I'm seeing it
from this perspective and it wasactually really cool.
So, yeah, I'm excited aboutthat.

Steph (09:30):
Yeah, so okay, I'll do mine.
I promise I'll do mine andeveryone who's in the group is
going to do it, but if you'renot able to join us, please do
the high five test and tag us onInstagram and let us know what
your strengths are.
I'm really interested to knowwhat overlaps amongst our
listeners.

Liz (09:48):
Yeah, you know they're totally baiting me too, because
they give you the five for freeand they describe them.
But then there's like a wholecomprehensive thing that goes
into all the rest of thestrengths and it labels them out
for you, orders them, and I'mlike man, do I just pay like the
20 bucks or whatever to find?

Steph (10:03):
out the whole thing I got to watch.
Stay strong Well, you only need, like the five, the top five.

Liz (10:09):
Well, I'd love to know the other ones for how much you know
, teamwork is just like amassive part of my work life,
right, and I just would love toknow the other ones so I can be
like okay, I think this personprobably leans in this direction
and that'd be a good skill tohave like on a team.
So it's interesting yeah.

Steph (10:25):
I'm super interested, so that'll be it.
I'm just, I think it's such amagical idea to find, like the
Goldilocks career for yourself.
You know the thing that's justso perfect, and it may not be
playing an orchestra or it maynot be teaching 100% of the time
, but I'm just, I really I thinkeverybody just wants to be feel

(10:47):
, seen and gotten, and I thinkthat's why personality tests are
so popular or these types oftests.
Oh, tell me more about me.
I want to know, get me, get me.

Liz (11:00):
Yeah, it's good.
The more we understandourselves, the more we
understand how we show up in theworld, the better we show up in
the world.
So it's hard to find a goodsegue for the conversation that
we had with this incredible,incredible guest that we're
featuring on this episode, JarodTate, who is just a phenomenal
human being.

(11:20):
He's a composer, he's amusician.
Where do you even begin withthis conversation?

Steph (11:25):
Well, it sounds like his has been a journey of
self-discovery as well, reallycoming to respect and embrace
his Chickasaw roots.
He talks about that, which isreally interesting.
I mean, I gather that anyonewho's from different ethnicities

(11:45):
may feel conflicted at times,like who am I really?
What am I really?
And his journey has been reallybeautiful, and it being a very
big part of his identity andpath.

Liz (11:57):
Yeah, and also this hybrid, because he spoke about his
family's background, that he hasthis also deep-seated root in
classical music, and so thisidentity of his to represent his
culture in the classical worldand that was a really
interesting facet of theconversation too was that idea
that representation includesusing other forms and other

(12:22):
avenues to get your message out.
He talked about filmmaking andhe talked about all these other
ways that are not traditionalfor their heritage and didn't
come from their heritage, butthey are able to use them to
speak their stories, and thatwas really fascinating too.
I hadn't thought about it fromthat perspective before.

Steph (12:38):
But yeah, talk about somebody who used their
strengths and molded theircareer to match them.

Liz (12:43):
Yeah, I really felt like I said this to you and I said this
to other people.
I felt when we were in thatconversation that he spoke so
much wisdom, he had so manyinsights.
It was almost just like tryingto grab one and like, okay,
let's talk about that for asecond.
Like it was amazing and I knoweveryone who listens is going to
feel the same way.

(13:03):
Also, there was something thatreally stuck with me and has
continued to stick with me isthis idea that because I think
it's fair to say that I meanwe're talking a little bit about
our individual experiences ofidentity and understanding more
about ourselves, how we show upin the world, self-love,
self-compassion, all that stuffI think we're in a real

(13:25):
difficult period of transition,not just as individuals, but as
a culture in general, and we'vebeen this way for a long time
now.
It's been years of identitystruggle as humanity, and it was
just really interesting to hearhim speak very I don't know
just peacefully about this ideathat we are not.
This is not the first time thathumanity has faced these

(13:48):
moments of real crisis ofidentity and real challenges,
and I think the idea that wehave all of our ancestors behind
us, having gone througharguably worse, puts things into
perspective.
Sometimes it can be a source ofcomfort in a way, yeah, and

(14:08):
just recognizing that.
You know, as we head into 2024and who knows, every year
there's all these funny memesthat pop up in the new year.
That's like we thought lastyear was the worst year.
Ha ha, ha ha.
Maybe 2024, maybe you'll bekinder, I don't know, we'll see.

Steph (14:25):
I mean, one can hope.

Liz (14:27):
But we are, you know, very gratefully wrapping up our 2023
interviews with thisconversation with Jared and
taking a little break for theholiday season.
On those, we're going to havesome Mozart's for you, but then
we'll be back in the new yearwith a whole bunch of other
great conversations and we hopeyou'll stick with us and, as
always, share it with a friendif you love it.

(14:48):
We have some stickerambassadors.
If you want to be a stickerambassador, let us know.

Steph (14:52):
Yay, yes, we will send you stickers so you can
proselytize on our behalf.

Liz (14:58):
More stickers out there, the better right.

Steph (15:01):
Yes, yes, but in the meantime, enjoy this
conversation with Jared Tate.

Liz (15:08):
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Liz (16:01):
It's so fitting, then, that their shop is in this beautiful
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Steph (16:10):
Today's guest, Jared Tate , is a classical composer,
citizen of the Chickasaw Nationin Oklahoma and is dedicated to
the development of AmericanIndian classical composition.
The Washington Post selectedhim as one of their 22 for 22
composers and performers towatch this year and raved about
his rare ability to effectivelyinfuse classical music with

(16:31):
American Indian nationalism.
Jared was appointed a 2022Chickasaw Hall of Fame inductee,
a 2021 cultural ambassador forthe US Department of State and
is a governor-appointedcreativity ambassador for the
state of Oklahoma.
And he's an Emmy winner, too,for his work on the educational
documentary the Science ofComposing, and his music was
featured on the HBO seriesWestworld.

(16:52):
So not only is he asought-after composer, but I
read that you did a stint withthe Broadway tours of Les Mis
and Miss Saigon, so you knowwhat it's like to be a
freelancer in this world too.
So you've done it all.
We're so glad that you've madetime to chat with us.
It is my honor to welcome youto the Musician-centric podcast.

(17:13):
Welcome, so glad to have you,Absolutely.

Jerod Tate (17:15):
I'm a Chinchukmata, a Chickasaw.
Nompa Okinaw.
Soho Shafoet.
Jared Taloa Ikbi ImpachawChahaa Tate.
Chickasaw Sayah Impachaw ChahaaChokat.
Michesaw Iksa Ishtaw ChololilitTaloa Ikbi Lit Hashlaka Sayopa
Chokmashki Yakoke.
Hi everyone, my name is JaredImpachaw Chahaa Tate and I am a

(17:39):
citizen of the Chickasaw Nationin Oklahoma and I am a
professional classical composerand I'm very, very honored to be
on this podcast.
Thanks for inviting me.

Liz (17:47):
That was lovely, yeah, thank you so much.

Jerod Tate (17:50):
You bet.

Steph (17:50):
So we are.
Obviously we're both familiarwith your work.
I performed your string quartet.
We're actually going to go seesomeone perform your string
quartet, amongst other things,tomorrow night.
We're very excited.

Liz (18:02):
I was just messaging with Ellen and she said that you guys
are proudly donning the so HotRight Now T-shirts in your
household.

Jerod Tate (18:11):
No, I'll tell you, I just, I mean, I love their
enthusiasm.
I mean, of course, it isdefinitely good for my ego to
have something like that.
My parents bought shirts, whichis really cool.

Liz (18:24):
I know so cute.

Jerod Tate (18:26):
But you know, I'll tell you that is a really good
example of what I think of asvery, very robust and energetic
entrepreneurship.

Liz (18:34):
Absolutely and.

Jerod Tate (18:35):
I'm very proud of them for that, because I think
it's a good example.
I think it's a really good rolemodel for the kinds of ways that
we should feel comfortable withpromoting ourselves and what we
do, because, I mean, theybelieve in what they're doing,
they're very, very excited andvery thrilled and happy and they
have lots of joy in all oftheir projects and I think
that's really, really great thatthey're showing that enthusiasm

(18:57):
and not being shy about itwhatsoever.
So, you know, I mean we have ahistory of kind of getting down
on ourselves for self-promotionor, for some reason, there's a
negative stigma on sellingyourself, and I don't understand
.
I've never understood thatreally, because prosperity is a
good thing for all human beings.
We should want prosperity forourselves and we should wish

(19:18):
prosperity for other peoplearound us, and so we need to be
in the game.
There's nothing wrong with that, and so I really really
appreciate their healthyenthusiasm and their you know,
their gen-z-ers basically I'mnot sure they're even
millennials and so I'm justreally grateful for that type of
energy and I'm very, verysupportive of that.

Liz (19:34):
Yeah, I think they'll appreciate you calling them
gen-z-ers, I think we're alittle older than that.

Steph (19:40):
Everybody looks like a gen-z-er to me, yeah.

Liz (19:45):
No, it's really true, and I think I mean, maybe this is
something that has come out.
Steph and I talked about thistoo.
It's been sort of a positive,by-proactive social media.
We talk a lot about thenegative by-products of social
media, but this positive concept.
That's like you get to see allthese other people out there
expressing themselves, whateverthat looks like, and it somehow

(20:08):
translates into permission slipfor somebody else to say OK,
maybe I could just say the thingI want to say and it's not a
big deal.
Or I have something I want toshare, and for we'll just
mention Rosette is the name ofthe group, but they're great
with that.
They have really done a goodjob of creating this unique
platform for sharing great music, and it was just so exciting to

(20:31):
see that this full concert ofyour music is going to be
performed and Steph and I aregoing to be in town so we can
see it tomorrow.
So that's great.

Jerod Tate (20:39):
I'm very fortunate.
I'm very flattered by this.
It's really.
I'm very grateful for all ofthat.
It's really cool, Very cool.

Steph (20:45):
Yeah Well.
So we're really curious aboutyou personally.
So we're both classicallytrained musicians and we went
through the traditional pathways.
We're curious how you came intoclassical music.
What inspired you to take thispath?

Jerod Tate (20:59):
and then eventually become a composer oh absolutely
Well, of course, I have my lifestory, and my story begins with
my parents, naturally, and so myfather, charles, is Chickasaw
Indian from Oklahoma, and dadwas born and raised in Ardmore,
which is right in the heart ofthe Chickasaw Nation in South
Central Oklahoma.
Here and my father graduatedUniversity of Oklahoma Law
School with his Juris Doctor andbecame a tribal attorney and

(21:22):
judge special district judge andone thing that's really
important about my dad is thathe is author to our current
Chickasaw Constitution and, forthose of you who may not be
familiar with Indian country law, all 537 tribes in the United
States has our own constitutionsthat run in tandem with the
United States Constitution.
So we are all citizens of ourtribe.

(21:43):
So I'm a citizen of theChickasaw Nation.
And I'm also a citizen of theUnited States of America.
And this is a very, very uniqueplace in the world that has this
.
And so I say all that becausemy father is author to our
current Constitution.
That was ratified in 1983.
We've had constitutions since1865.
And they've gone throughdifferent iterations.
But also with my dad'sbackground, I grew up with a
very, very robust and colorfulknowledge of American Indian

(22:07):
history, politics and law, andso I've known people from all
kinds of different tribes sincea very young age and been
exposed to all kinds of tribalcultures and governments for a
very long time, and I'm verygrateful for that.
But my dad is also aphenomenally trained classical
pianist and baritone and he'swhere I get my voice and I'm
very grateful for that.

Steph (22:26):
I was going to say I was a baritone in there.

Jerod Tate (22:28):
And so my dad's 83.
We're very, very close.
In fact, we just both performedmy sister's entire wedding and
he canters and he sings weddingsall the time still, and so my
father and I speak Indian lawand opera in the same sentence
all of the time.
It's really, really fortunateto have my dad as my buddy like
that, and great story, my dadalso played accordion as a

(22:49):
teenager and he would gigrestaurants singing Italian
playing accordion.
And so you see this chicken-tobkid doing all that in art more
Oklahoma.

Liz (22:58):
That is amazing.
Only in America can you findsomething like that?
Yeah, only in America.
Yes, oh my gosh.

Jerod Tate (23:06):
Pretty cool.

Steph (23:07):
I'm sure you watched a lot of accordion.
Well, yes, I'm always impressedwith an accordion.

Jerod Tate (23:12):
Yeah, he played that for me when I was a kid, so I
grew up with dad playing andsinging classical repertoire in
the house as well, and so mymother, Patricia, was from
Nebraska and mom was Manx Irish,so I am Manx and Chickasaw, and
my mother was a professionalchoreographer and dancer and she
also graduated OU School ofMusic and studied with Yvonne

(23:32):
Choteau and Mikhail Terakhov,and so my parents met in the
theater and so I grew up as atotal theater brat.
I have saturated veryspecifically an American theater
and dance, and so a lot of myearly artistic heroes were
female choreographers, likeIsidore Duncan and Martha Graham
, ruth St Dennis and Ted Seanand Agnes DeMille, and then

(23:54):
later on, just all the modernslike Merce Cunningham and Alvin
Ailey, jerome Robbins, bob Fosse.
Those kinds of folks were in myyounger years and so, with all
of the dance exposure that Ihave, I grew up with a lot of
modern music, a lot of Americanmodern music, but also my mom
choreographed a lot of majorballets, and so I grew up with
some of the finestorchestrations ever composed by

(24:15):
Stravinsky and Prokofiev andTchaikovsky and Ravel and.
Debussy and just stuff like that.
I was doing all that when I wasa kid, and so I was just
completely exposed to thoseamazing orchestrations.
So my dad started me on thepiano, and then when I started
piano lessons at about eight anda half about three months in I
had announced to my family thatI was to be a concert pianist.
I was in like Flynn, noproblems, and so that's how I

(24:38):
grew up, was studying piano, andI went to Northwestern as a
piano performance major and thenthe Cleveland Institute of
Music, and during my senior yearat Northwestern my mom was
going to be doing a new ballet.
She taught at the University ofWyoming for 25 years and she had
just done a ballet called thelynching of cattle Kate, about
Ella Watson, who was the firstand only woman hanged in Wyoming

(24:59):
for cattle wrestling, and soshe did something that was very
historically relevant to thearea.
And then she wanted to doanother ballet based on American
Indian stories from theNorthern Plains and Rockies, and
she created this entirearchitecture and consulted with
a lot of her native colleaguesin the state of Wyoming about
stories that she could use thatkind of thing, and so then she
came to me and said well, you'remy Chickasaw a pianist kid, you

(25:20):
can compose the score and I hadto go, had you?

Steph (25:24):
ever thought about composing before that?

Jerod Tate (25:26):
No, no, I said no.
I told her absolutely not.
That was absolutely ridiculousand I couldn't get it out of my
head.
I started composing it, kind ofin secret, and I came to her
with some music and she liked itand we went ahead and moved
forward with the gig.
But no, I had not thought ofcomposing before and it was
really.
I mean, first of all, I grew upin ballet, so I had an enormous

(25:47):
amount of artistic pressure onmy shoulders, but also I knew
all of our great American Indianvisual artists and composers
and choreographers and authors,and so I'm looking at all this
canon from Indian country andfrom classical country and I'm
just like what?
So that was pretty overwhelming, but in a really beautiful and
innocent way, my mother wasasking me to be all of who I am

(26:08):
at the same time.
And I just started doing thisand as I was talking to lots of
colleagues, everybody, everybodyfrom Indian country and from
the classical field were sayingyou got to do this.
So I did.
So we premiered the balletentitled Winter Moons, which is
actually on Spotify.
You can hear the ballet.
I've listened, I saw it, and thevideo with my mom's
choreography is up on my YouTubechannel with the Colorado

(26:29):
Ballet performing.
And so Rodney Grant, thenarrator of Winter Moons.
He's an Omaha guy and he wasone of the famous actors from
Dances with Wolves.
He played that character,wendan his hair, who had hair
down to his ankles.

Liz (26:42):
He was gorgeous.

Jerod Tate (26:43):
And so he came in to do the narration.
It was right after that moviehad come out.
And so he was just on me likejust hammering me You've got to
do this, you've got to be anative classical composer, this
is important, blah, blah.
And so I was like all right.
So he was just really, reallysuper passionate.
So, rodney Grant, I'm reallygrateful for him to be in my
life.
We're still friends and he'sjust wonderful and he's really

(27:04):
responsible for that.
So when I finished the ballet,I had left school to come and
premiere the ballet with mom,and then I went back and I added
composition to my degree at theCleveland Institute, and that's
when I had announced to myfamily that I was to be a
Chickasaw classical composer.

Liz (27:18):
It's so interesting.
There's a couple of things Iwas thinking about.
One is we all know that Brahmsfamously couldn't get his head
around the idea of composingsomething better than Beethoven,
and it weighed him down so muchthat he didn't compose a
symphony till he was old.
Right Like he waited a verylong time.

(27:40):
And he was just so overcome bythe weight of that.
But I've never thought aboutthe fact that every composer
must have some element ofexperience.
That's like wait, wait, wait.
I'm going to try to do thisthing that all of these other
people have done, that there's aweight there, and the freedom
that you received just fromsomebody saying no, no, no, but
it's your voice that I'minterested in hearing.

(28:02):
Don't worry about the rest ofthat.
I mean, all of that informs us,but really, how do we create
anything new if we don't justrely on the fact that our voice
is its own unique entity?

Jerod Tate (28:11):
Yeah, I totally agree, and every artist feels
this in every field.
You feel this way when you're aparent.
It's like how do I do this?
Everybody's done the same thingwith anybody who's growing
their lives and trying toachieve anything.
There's people that come beforeus that create a standard, and
so we have all kinds ofchallenges and choices about how
we embrace those standards andhow we do make our own voice

(28:33):
through all of that, becauseliving in of itself is coming
from a tradition of life, and sohere it is.
We're born in all this.
So, yeah, I completely agree.
I was feeling all of that atthe same time and at the same
time I also felt very passionateabout it.
I felt driven, I really feltvery compelled and attracted to
the idea, and my personalstruggles also were.
I was talking to my aunt, mydad's sister, ann, and I said,

(28:56):
ann, I said I'm strugglingbecause I just don't know how
relevant what I do is going tobe to Indian country, and she
said, oh honey.
She said Jared there's many waysto be Indian, as there are
Indians, and which was veryoverwhelming and very validating
, and I've thought about that inall kinds of ways.
And when I teach, I teach a lotof kids and I teach both
natives and non-nativescomposition and I'm really

(29:18):
really clear with them about it.
I don't have any stylisticrestrictions or any particular
expectations, like you're goingto compose, like me, with this
particular technique or whateverI'm like.
No, I am your livingencyclopedia.
I am your life coach, here toanswer all the questions that
you need to solve anythingtechnical, but it's up to you
what you want to do, what my jobis to help you be the best

(29:39):
artist that you can be, withwhatever voice that you have,
because there are 8 billionpeople on this planet, which
means there are 8 billiondifferent ways to be a person.

Liz (29:48):
Yes.

Jerod Tate (29:49):
And I'm really grateful that my aunt had told
me that in my microcosmos ofNative America and so it's the
same thing with all people.
So I'm just really grateful forthat.

Steph (29:58):
Yeah, it's really.
It felt probably veryliberating to be given that
permission.
Yeah, On some level.
However, you are one of a verysmall subset of composers who
focus in on this one area.
Do you ever feel like therepresentative?

Jerod Tate (30:17):
No, no, I did feel a little bit alone for a while.
So, for instance, when Istarted out, the only composers
that I was aware of was DenisonWheelock, who was Oneida, and he
was the original compositionand music teacher at the
Carlisle Indian School inPennsylvania.
In fact, his first orchestralwork actually his only
orchestral work, his Aboriginalsuite, was played in Paris and
then in Carnegie Hall in 1901.

(30:38):
And he was responsible foreducating lots of American
Indians in the band world.
And actually there's a wholetradition of band in Indian
country that lots of peopledon't know about.
But there's been a lot ofAmerican Indian instrumentalists
through boarding schools anddifferent schools.
Like there are a lot of bandplayers, all kinds of Americans
have played instruments.
So I'm sorry that's a total bigtangent.
But then also Louis Ballard isanother composer who was alive

(31:01):
at the same time and he wasQuapon Cherokee, from Oklahoma,
and my parents knew him.
They were actually the premierof his ballet, the Four Moons,
that had four of the fiveAmerican Indian ballerinas from
Oklahoma in that, and so myparents were at that premiere
here before I was born withLouis, and Louis and I were
friends, but that's all I had atthe time.
But since then there's actuallyquite a few American Indian

(31:22):
composers and classicalinstrumentalists populating,
which is really really wonderful, and so I have a lot of friends
now in Indian country that arecomposing and playing classical
music, and I knew that that wasgoing to happen over time, but
when I started out it wasn't thecase and so I felt isolated.
That's why I was wondering whatis what I'm doing going to be
relevant?
And it clearly is, which I'mreally happy about.

(31:46):
But if you make any kind ofcomparison, there's American
Indians involved in every singlegenre of fine art, and one
great example is Sterling Harjodoing reservation dogs.
I'm really proud that Sterlingis a friend of mine and his work
is really important becausehe's showing everybody a modern
American Indian expressing theiridentity through a medium that
is not aboriginal to anywhere inthe world.

(32:06):
That is a brand new art form toall people and all cultures.
What brand new?
Relatively new, it's 100 yearsold, but that's not aboriginal
to anybody's culture, and sohe's a really great example of
being modern and connected toyour heritage at the exact same
time.
So another really good exampleis another friend of mine, joy
Harjo, and she is our third timepoet laureate for the United

(32:28):
States of America, and sheexpresses her unique identity as
a Misscog.
She's also a Misscogie fromTulsa, and she is using
materials that, again, are notaboriginal to our culture.
First of all, she's writing thelanguage down, which is
relatively new.
It's in books and it's in theEnglish language, and so other
American Indians are reading herwork in English, and this is
all mediums that are notoriginal to our cultures, and so

(32:52):
yet we've embraced those asmodern tools like everybody else
has around the world.
And of course we've got AmericanIndian choreographers and
sculptors and painters.
I mean here's all that, and soI mean it's everywhere, and so
we've been involved for quitesome time, and so I'm very, very
happy to be a part of this, andclassical music is no different
.
I'm using orchestralinstruments, the same way that

(33:15):
Brent Greenwood is usingacrylics and a canvas.
Those are materials that wedidn't have originally.
And so, of course, you knowJean-Quique Tissier.
She's a Salish artist who usesall kinds of multimedia and
stuff, and she uses stuff that'sprint from her chart.
Here's the newspaper from hertribe.
You know, this is all reallymodern stuff that people are
doing all the time, and also onething that's really cool is the
incredible explosion ofAmerican Indian fashion.

(33:37):
Oh my gosh, this is fantastic.

Liz (33:39):
So another really good friend of mine is Margaret.

Jerod Tate (33:40):
Wheeler and she's a Chickasaw textile designer and
she's like a total mentor to alot of the young fashion
designer.
These are total Gen Zers andsome of them are.
You're crossing the Gen Alphaactually very soon here in all
this artistic expression.
But the fashion that's comingout of Indian country right now
is stunning.
Cool, oh, it's so great, and Iwill tell you, during the

(34:01):
pandemic, instagram blew up withvisual art.
I bought a lot more AmericanIndian art than I had ever in
the past and I have so manycolleagues who were able to
embrace that as a medium ofincome, and so there's so much
American Indian visual art nowon Instagram.
It's just really, reallyterrific.

Liz (34:19):
I love this so much.
It's a really good reminderthat, no matter where you come
from or what the history is,there's this whole world of
expression available for you todo the thing you want to do.
I was curious too.
You mentioned having peopleearly on who were really
encouraging you of you followingthis path, and you also

(34:39):
mentioned that you had thisreally innate drive, like that.
You just felt passionate aboutit and it happened and it was
exciting, and maybe those twothings together, kind of like,
gave you the impetus to go forit.
When it comes to yourcompositions, when it comes to
your process, what's that like?
I mean, is there research thatgoes into it?
You've mentioned to us likethere are times of day that you

(35:00):
like to compose.
What is the experience like?

Jerod Tate (35:02):
Well, it's a very holistic experience, and so all
of the things that you weretalking about are all present in
what I do, and so, as far as Iknow, every artist that I'm
aware of has all facets of whatthey do, and that is.
There's lots of research,personal research, external
research that we need to do, andthen also inward exploration of
what we're hearing, of whatwe're feeling, all kinds of
things, and lots of personaldecisions about what it is that

(35:25):
we want to express, what'simportant to us as an individual
, and so all those larger thingsdrive the details.
It's like parenting, it's likeyou've got your child and you're
like boy, this is awesome.
Oh gosh, what do I do?
Well, ok, and it's the samething.
And so it's like when I'mcreating new work, I'm like, ok,
yeah, I really want to do this.
What do I do?
All right, now.
And then it's like, instantly,ok, I've got these lists of

(35:47):
things.
Ok, I want to achieve this.
So that means I'm going to haveto do this, I want to achieve
this.
This means I have to do this,and so there's all kinds of
logistics that go into creatinganything.
I mean, it's like if you lookat civil engineering, well,
somebody starts out with apassion to be like I really want
to create this environment inour town, even if it's highway
constructions.
They want a certain flow tohelp people do this.
This is going to be a betterthing.

(36:08):
This can be safer.
What are all the logistics?
How do we plan all this stuff?
What are they capable of doing?
How do I incorporate this?
That's called human creativityall the way around, and it
doesn't matter what fieldsyou're in.
You could be running a daycarecenter.
You can have the exact sameissue about what your vision and
passion is, and how am I goingto implement all that?
And, of course, at the end ofthe day, we're all working with

(36:30):
each other.
I mean, this is not an isolatedevent.
I spend a lot of time thinkingbecause I have to focus, but I
work with hundreds of peopleevery single year, and so this
is all about relationships thatI have with other artists.
But every time I'm sitting atthe composition table I'm
writing.
There's people in the room withme because I'm writing for them
.
I'm imagining what is thisgoing to feel like with a

(36:51):
flutist?
How are they going to, how isthis going to physiologically be
with their when they'reperforming it?
I'm in a relationship withpeople constantly while I'm
doing stuff.
So there's always this largervision.
There's always also the detailsand then when you're actually
creating, flexing back and forth, it's fluid.
I'm going back and forthbetween details, larger vision,
somewhere in between this overhere, this over there, and
eventually comes into focus to afinal piece because there's

(37:14):
deadlines.

Steph (37:17):
Yeah, gotta be done, gotta be done.
So your whole discussion aboutyour creative process got me
thinking.
I've been reading this bookcalled the Creative Act by Rick
Rubin and he talks about thedifferent phases of creating
something.
So at first you have theimagining part of the process
and then you have the doing partof the process, and that's the

(37:39):
part that's dependent ondeadlines and those not so fun
things.
But when you're in thatimagining phase, I'm just
curious what you do to sparkthose ideas.
What do you do to get yourcreative juices flowing?
Where do you tend to findinspiration or go for
inspiration when you need thatquiet space away from the piano?

Jerod Tate (38:01):
You're talking to a dad, so there's no time or space
.

Liz (38:06):
Hey, I'm a mom.

Jerod Tate (38:10):
No, I say that was great.
I mean, I'm so blessed.
You know, honestly, I do takewalks from time to time.
I don't have a lot of timeluxury, so I kind of honestly I
live kind of in that spiritualworld and the real world
simultaneously.
It's really just kind of all ofthe time Teach us how.
Oh shit.
You know, I'll be honest withyou, a lot of my inspiration
comes from my conversations withpeople.

(38:31):
So that's not downtime, it'slike excited, like what we're
doing right now.
So this is just kind ofhappening constantly, and
whenever I get a phone call fromsomebody who wants to do a
commission, I will immediatelyask them OK, so where are you,
where are you from this kind ofthing?
And immediately just ideasstart to flow and that's why I
have to take notes and I have to.
You know, you have to shelve itfor a little while and come

(38:52):
back.
But to be honest, I'm just kindof constantly in that mode, it's
like all the time.
So like I'm always in touchwith God, I'm always in touch
with my creativity, I'm alwaysin touch with my son and I'm
always in touch with my familyand friends and nature and
living, and so I just it's justkind of is that way, and a lot
of that is kind of practical too, because, again, there's not
much time in the day, so I justneed to keep all those gates

(39:17):
open.
And yes, this is the problem isthat when ideas come in the car
, it's oh, that's frustratingbecause you can't write it down
the phone has how many.

Steph (39:25):
That's what voice members are for.

Jerod Tate (39:26):
Yeah, it's like I take notes or whatever.
But a lot of times I've got myson with me and I'm talking to
him as well, and so I'm justlike grab it, grab it, hold it,
hold it, hold it, jared.
And so I'm desperately tryingto hang on to ideas, because
they always come at the worsttimes.
It always happens.
It's just the way it is Alljust has to be kind of
simultaneous.

Liz (39:43):
I think it's so great because most people will
resonate with that concept.
That looks like even just in myown experience.
I have had phases of my lifewhere I have a lot more time to
be silent with myself, tomeditate to spend time
journaling to do all thesethings.
In the last I don't know howmany months, I just haven't had

(40:04):
that space.
I haven't had that space but Irealized I spent over 1,000
miles in the car last week andevery drive I know it was insane
.
I'm never doing it again.

Steph (40:14):
Do not recommend it.
Don't try this at home, not forgigs, not for work, I mean on a
road trip across the country.

Liz (40:20):
it's great, but like no for work, I don't recommend it.
It's the worst.
However, that being said, Iswear especially the drive at
night, like to my destination togo to bed, the stuff that was
coming into my head or justentering my being.
It could only be coming from aplace of openness and awareness

(40:41):
and connection to whatever weconsider to be our source, and I
was so grateful for it becauseI was like, oh man, even when I
don't have like 45 minutes tojust sit in silence every
morning, this will still come.
I'm still the vehicle forwhatever that thing is that can
enter if I'm open.

Jerod Tate (41:01):
That's a really good point because I mean, it's
still us, so I'm not goinganywhere here.
So I think a lot of timesthere's fear in that because, oh
, I don't have time, I'm goingto lose all my ability.
That's not going to go away.
You're still who you are andit's the same brain, and I
remind myself of that a lot.

(41:22):
It's like when I think about myage or whatever.
It's like it's the same brainthat I had when I was 20.
I'm the same person.
I've learned a lot, but I'vestill that kind of thing.
It's like I'm the same person.
Why wouldn't I?
So I think a lot of us have thesame fears about that and
honestly, it's really nice tohave a group like this and talk
about how we all have the sameissues, and when we hear other

(41:45):
people's different versions ofthe same thing, it's really
helpful to us.
Even if it's not the exact samestory, it's the same energy and
you just feel in communion withpeople who are managing the
same issues and knowing that, ifthey can do it under their
circumstances, I can definitelyfigure it out in my mind.
It's really nice to be able totalk about those human, and

(42:06):
especially as adults, issuesthat we have.
We all have them.
Oh, so I really like to talkabout this.
Ok, so there's this issue ofwhen we meet aliens.

Steph (42:17):
And so when we do meet aliens, not if, when, when we
meet aliens.
Thank you for saying it thatway.

Jerod Tate (42:22):
There's all the controversy of well, how are we
going to really communicate withaliens?
What's our chemistry going tobe?
But how are we going tocommunicate?
And of course scientists arevery adamant about well, of
course we're going tocommunicate in science and math,
because it's all universalphysics and everything like that
.
So artists have another onethat's like oh, it's going to be
art, because art is universaland that's going to be the
universal expression.

(42:42):
I'm like nope, it's going to beparenting.
That's going to be a universallanguage because when we tell a
story to each other and theyroll their six eyes at the same
time, we roll our two eyes.
Boom, we've communicated, webonded and it's all going to be
about a story about our teenagekids.

Steph (43:01):
Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.
I have a 14 year old right now.

Jerod Tate (43:06):
Oh, you do, You're 14.
Ok, you know it.
I know it, we're in it, we'rein it.

Steph (43:12):
It's hard as artists to allow ourselves that time,
especially as parents, to allowourselves that time to sustain
our artistic side of ourselves,because you could give
everything to your kid.
Yes, you could give all of yourtime to your kid and your pets.
So it's all about each one ofus figuring out when we're our
most productive, our mostartistic, most connected to our

(43:34):
muse, and trying to work aroundthat time.

Jerod Tate (43:36):
Agreed and it changes.
It can change weekly.

Liz (43:39):
Yes, I was just saying, I was just saying for now it's an
incredibly fine architecturethat we can set for as long as
humanly possible.

Jerod Tate (43:44):
And that becomes increasingly more difficult.
But so I remember in college Iwas the late night composer.
I would start at 9 o'clock atnight and go to midnight and I
would go to coffee shops and doa lot of this work externally
and then I would go to pianosand I kind of split it.
I had my system in college Iremember I remember very fondly
of because I remember thefocused time that I had, but it
didn't last that long becauselife's changed, I hear I act as

(44:07):
if it had happened for decadesor something Now.
So now what I do is I get up 3,30, or 4 in the morning,
depending on the day.
And, like I said, I would get acouple of hours in and I can
shower, and then I wake my sonup at 6.30 for his school and I
know by the time I get back Iwill then grab another couple of
hours, and if I can get fourhours of composing in a day,
that's pretty darn good, and ifI can get more, that's great.

(44:28):
But then of course there's justso much business to do and
things to take care of and I'vegot to grocery shop and look for
things and do fill up forms formy son for school.
I mean there's lots of justreal stuff.
But when I can get stuff doneby 9 or 10 in the morning, oh my
gosh, I feel really really good.
That's the time when allpistons are firing really really
nicely.

(44:48):
I love the fall, because thesun doesn't even come up till
after he's awake, and so I feellike, yeah, I've just conquered
the whole day because the sun isnot coming in.

Steph (44:57):
I have the whole day left , so I pick myself out like that
.

Jerod Tate (44:59):
So I like that I don't like the summer because it
comes up at 4 in the morning.
I'm like no, stop it.

Steph (45:03):
I go back down.

Jerod Tate (45:05):
I got stuff to do.

Steph (45:07):
Do you ever have moments or days where it isn't coming?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
What do you do?

Jerod Tate (45:13):
Oh, absolutely.
So what I do is I let myselfoff the hook immediately.
It's like just stop it, Getsomething else done.
Just go, go, go go.
Because I remember talking to afriend of mine and I said
procrastinating means that youare metabolizing, You're
processing.
If you're not, like you know,OK, I love that.
Procrastinating if you neverget the gears going, that's one

(45:34):
thing, but a lot of times we arereally hard on ourselves and we
say we're procrastinating butactually we're processing.
And I think if you can be awareof that and allow that to
happen, you actually will end upsaving more time, because
you're spending less timebeating yourself up, which takes
time out of your schedule.
Actually to sit there andself-criticism.
It actually takes a lot of timeout of your schedule.
It's really kind of funny.

(45:54):
We're all talking about time aswe get older, like this but the
thing is is that I've justlearned to be like it's not
happening.
Just stop, Just stop it.
Jared, You're going to get this.
Obviously, you've got to takecare of these other things for
the mental space, so I justallow myself to do that, and
sometimes it doesn't feel likethere's time to do that, but I
mean what?

Liz (46:11):
can you do?
Yes, I appreciate that so much.

Jerod Tate (46:14):
If I run into a real serious problem with time, then
what I do is I communicate withother people that it affects.
So I'm just like I just got todo it.
And I'll tell you I'm findingthis out later in life that the
more I do that, the more empathyI get.
I have so many people that arelike, oh dude, I get it.
I you know.
Hey, that's fine, we'll workthis out.
Okay, what do we need to do?

(46:35):
And we usually work it out.
I mean, so this year I had adouble hernia surgery last fall
and I was thinking, yeah, I'lljust get right up, I'll just
triple down, and I mean Jared.
So what happened is I lost sixmonths.
I lost four months ofproductivity, and so I honestly
had to have a sit down withmyself and I said I'm behind.
It's that simple and I'm not.

(46:55):
I'm just not going to be ableto do what I was hoping for and
I need to try to rework ourschedules.
The first time I did that, likeit kind of en masse, as a
professional move I just had todo because of my circumstance,
and everybody was like, right,okay, let's work it out, what
are we doing?
And I was like, oh my gosh, Ican't believe this.
And so what a?

Steph (47:13):
relief Huh.

Jerod Tate (47:13):
Yeah it, that was really beautiful, it's really
cool.
And, of course, you know,honestly, my finances changed
because of that, because myfinancial schedule radically
changed.
So I had to go all right timeto tighten the shoestrings, pull
up my bootstraps and figurethis out.
I'm going to be okay, you know.
Well, those are real things thatwe all deal with and so, but
what I did is I just reallypracticed a lot of faith and I

(47:34):
just allowed myself to have thetime that I needed to, and I
just thought, you know, again,my parents were a lot poorer
than I am and it was a lot worse, honestly, for them and my
grandparents, mygreat-grandparents.
I just reminded myself of that.
It's going to be okay.
I've got friends and family, Ican talk about this, I can
figure this out, you can alwayswork it out.
That was the attitude that Ijust had to give myself, and so
I allowed myself to completelychange deadlines and everything

(47:57):
like that, so then I couldregroup and boy did I make a
huge difference in my life.
And of course, you know youstill end up really busy, but
it's just like it usually kindof comes back.

Liz (48:05):
It's such a great thing to share, though, and I think it's
really important because we'vetalked a little bit about the
importance of community and theimportance of having people
support you, having a village,and so the idea that you can't
rely on those people in a timeof need.
In this case, it's just puttingthe phone to the ear and saying
, hey, I can't, I can't, I can't.

Jerod Tate (48:28):
I can't, I can't, yeah Right.

Liz (48:30):
And knowing that the response is not well too bad.
The response is like, hey, dowhat you got to do, you know,
like, and how can I help?
Like can I help you?
You know?
I mean that is such a huge,important thing to help us
through those moments, to get usto the other side where we have
the ability to make the spacefor it and the and the resources

(48:51):
and everything is veryresonating with me very deeply
in my own life.
And I just feel like it's soimportant to have both of those
pieces.
You know, we can't be self, wecan't be 100% self reliant, and
if we're in a vacuum and we'restruggling, that's another,
there's another direction thatthat goes right.
Yeah.

Jerod Tate (49:06):
Yeah, I totally agree.
You know it's also what I dofor anybody who called me.
I mean my gosh, if somebodycalls me, it's a Jared.
I mean, it's happened all thetime.
And it's like, you know, when Ireally think about it, when I
reflect on it, when I've gottenthose phone calls, I'm like, oh
my gosh, hey, let's take amoment to breathe.
And oh, my, yeah, we're goingto figure this out and I, you
know what can I do?
Yeah, that's, that's, that'sbeen the response.
And so I've learned some really, really neat current life

(49:28):
lessons because of that.
That, you know, I willabsolutely lean into in the
future.
And then some lessons I canteach my son no, hey, listen,
when there's troubles, you talkto me and you talk to anybody
you need to, because people areon our side.
You know it's like we are incommunity, we really really are,
and a lot of times we forgetthat because we're hard on
ourselves.
You know we have lots ofexpectations of ourselves, but
when we just lean into that, alot of people, most people, come

(49:50):
through.
Most people do.
It's the majority really reallyis.
I'll tell you a story.
When the pandemic hit, this wassomething that had occurred to
me that was really important.
I was in touch with a lot oforchestral musicians and one
really really good friend ofmine who's in a particular
orchestra was talking a lot, andthey were like I was like how's
it going?
And they were like, because youknow, our, our adjustments had
happened within three days.

(50:11):
So I remember on Thursday I'dheard that school went to a half
day.
The very next day we got anannouncement school was not
meeting.
And then on Saturday we got theannouncement that school was
closed indefinitely.
So I became a full-timehomeschooler and I was in the
middle of all these scheduledperformances and commissions and
everything and the immediateresponse was to get on emails
and say your, your invoices arestill do?

(50:32):
I mean, it was panic mode andso I was talking to my, my
colleague, and they were like,yeah, it's bad.
And I was like what's going onwith the library?
And it's just telling me what'sgoing on with the orchestra's
emergency meetings, like crazy,what are we going to do?
And they were all the firstthing we're talking about was
all their invoices that werepending for electricity in the
building, all the way tocommissions and rentals.
And I was just like, okay, thisis.

(50:53):
And because I kept going to thecomputer to collect.
I just couldn't do it, I'm like, and so I just thought I know
what I'm going to do.
So I emailed everybody and Isaid you're off the hook, I'm.
I did it preemptively so thatthey didn't have to, like, you
know, contact me.
I was like I was on it.
I was like I want to let youknow that you are.
This is not on your tableanymore.
Program me in a year.
Please Just keep the music.

(51:14):
Whatever we need to do, let'sfigure something else out, but I
just want you to know right nowthat this is not on your table
anymore.
Like I'm out of it.
And I got online to my ownaccount and I was like all right
, you got four months to live, Iget four months of money to
live on.
Okay, so now, what are yougoing to do?
First of all, I let everybody Iwas like I lost.
I voluntarily was like lost allmy money.
I'm not afraid now, but thething is, though, is that we're

(51:36):
all looking for the same $5bills.
I mean, so what good was itgoing to do for me to go?
You know, oh, you still owe methis money, and you're a big
institution and you can affordit.
But no, it's not the case atall.
They're still paying payroll toorchestral musicians who are
now all terrified because theydon't know, I don't know how
much.
Somebody has only a day left intheir account.
Some people have a week.
I was so fortunate to have fourmonths of bills in my account

(51:59):
that I could rely on, becausethen I was like all right done.
And then that's when I actuallygave all my music away for free
, because I was like, if anybodycan, just if I get five
performances this year, I cancollect some BMI royalties and
I'll have something.
It'll be more than I everthought I could have, you know.
So I was just like forget it.
I just dropped the whole bag.
I was like you know, just thisis not going to work and nobody
in my community can afford this.
Nobody can afford this.

(52:20):
And so the last thing I'm goingto do is step on everybody
else's neck.
It just didn't make any sense,you know.
And so then all the zoomskicked up and there's a lot of
life coaching going on with eachother about.
Like you know, how are we doingthis?
It was really really, reallybeautiful actually.
So, but I just said to myself.
I was like I'm going to do thisone day at a time.
I'm going to sit down and I'mgoing to solve one problem a day
and by the end of 30 days Iwill have 30 problem solved and

(52:43):
three months of income still youknow, I was just like looking
at all this, like, but 30problem solved right.
So what did that mean?
Well, it would mean that Iwould figure something.
I was, something was going tohappen out of this, but I was
just like you know, I'm ingratitude and I'm fortunate and
I'm just going to do this, butit was really, really important
to make sure that my communityknew hey, we're totally in the
same wheelhouse here.
This is.

(53:03):
You know, we're going to shakehands and we're going to help
each other out.
It was really, really importantand I had so many colleagues
who were on board with that,thinking and, you know, really
doing well, and it was themajority of people that were
doing that and helping eachother as much as possible.
It's really, really beautiful.

Steph (53:18):
It's so lovely to hear because we think of ourselves
coming from such a scarcitymindset to to embrace such a
sense of abundance that it'slike faith, that it will come,
we will be able to solve thisproblem together, and that
there's enough work out there.
It may not be the same work,but if you're able to broaden

(53:39):
your horizons a little bit,broaden your sense of what
you're willing to, you know, putout there the energy you're
about you're able to put outthere, then it will come back.
Yeah, that you'll be providedfor.

Liz (53:49):
This is a beautiful thing is that?
We're looking in your studiothere with the piano and the
electricity is on, so somehowyou made it past those four
months even after making thatdecision and that's like a
testament right To trust.

Jerod Tate (54:03):
Agreed and it really begins with gratitude.
So when, when you really pullthat, when you work the muscle
of gratitude, you're meat.
What happens is you.
You change a mindset ofscarcity to abundance.
What you do is you go hey, lookwhat I have.
I mean, look, I'm talking toyou on this.
You know, with this microphoneand this, camera and all this
kind of stuff.
I mean, I'm able to do that, andthe fact that I can do that

(54:25):
means that I'm I'm going to beokay.
There's something that's goingto work out all right.
If you could look at everythingwith a sense of gratitude
towards I've got a beautiful cat, you know he's healthy.
He's eating oatmeal andstrawberries every morning.
We're good with that.
That's really.
These are all things to begrateful for.
You know, I'm not a person inLibya who's spouse has been
killed in a war and I'm sick andmy children have the flu.

(54:47):
That's a very, very differentstory.
With no assistance whatsoever,that's a real thing in the world
right, while we are sittinghere in privilege, you know
online and everything, and sojust having that lens of
gratitude is really, reallycritical, and it also allows you
to move ahead a lot quicker.
It actually saves time.
It really really does.

Liz (55:04):
Yeah for sure.
This has been amazing.
It's been so great, it's beenso fun.

Steph (55:08):
Nothing new than music.
No, it's everything to do withmusic.

Jerod Tate (55:10):
Yes, it is.
I'm sure a lot of everyonecomes into music, to do music.

Steph (55:12):
I feel like we're back right when we were in Italy.

Liz (55:14):
That's the world that we live in.
Yeah, yeah, that's exactlyright.
I don't know.
It's just refreshing to hearthe perspectives for anybody
who's working towards somecreative endeavor.
Just the level of trust and themaking it work.
I mean, there's just so muchhere that's been so great.
What's coming up for you, jared?
Are there any big projectsyou're working through right now

(55:35):
?
Any new premiers coming up?
Yes, almost everything.

Jerod Tate (55:40):
I'm very, very blessed and very overwhelmed.
I'm managing prosperity rightnow and I'm very grateful for
that.
So I will admit I'm very, verytired and I'm also very
fortunate.
So I'm finishing up my pianoand flute duo right now and I'm
immediately going into acommission for a city music
Cleveland that I have to composevery quickly and efficiently
for soprano and orchestra and Iwill conduct that concert and

(56:02):
then shortly after that I've gotsome well, in the meantime I've
got some great performances inNew York City with Cantori in
New York and I've also a LincolnCenter performance.
And then Turtle Island's DrinkRotet is touring one of my
pieces right now and my son iscoming out with me to well,
actually, he just performed withme when I conducted the Akron
Symphony and he's performingwith me when I play in Carnegie
Hall in March That'll be cooland Link and the New York City

(56:26):
Philharmonics playing mine in myworks just before Carnegie Hall
, which is really great.
So I'll be going out to there.
So I've got the residency thatI'm flying out to.
And then also I've got a coupleof commissions from the Dover's
Drink Rotet and I'm premieringmy new opera next October, which
fortunately is finished, butthat's going to premiere here in
Oklahoma City with CanterburySingers and Canterbury Voices

(56:46):
and Oklahoma City Philharmonic.
It's a two-hour opera, that'sit'll be a concert opera sung
entirely in the Chickasawlanguage, and we have four
American Indian opera singersthat are playing four of the
Leeds there's many Leedsactually in this and so Caitlin
Morton is our Cherokee soprano,who's the lead, she's a mezzo.
We have Kirsten Kunkel, who is aMuscogi Spinto soprano, who
plays the grandmother, markBilly, who's Choctaw Baratone

(57:08):
plays her father, and then GrantYoungblood is a Baratone Lumbee
Baratone who's playing theriver that she speaks to at the
very end of the first act.
And so this is a story aboutLuxie, which means turtle, and
this is about a girl in our pastnamed Luxie.
It's a hero story.
It's almost like a combinationbetween a hero's journey and an
ugly duckling story, where shestarts out young and very
insecure about her abilities andeverything and turns out to be

(57:31):
the person who entirelytransforms our culture.
And so it's beautiful, it's areally really great story and
it's a perfect two-act operastory, and I just I'm really
grateful that I got to composethis and so that's premiering
next October here in OklahomaCity in our language, and I'm
really happy about that.
It's wonderful.

Liz (57:48):
It's really grateful.

Jerod Tate (57:49):
Immediately after that, I'll be premiering a work
with the Oklahoma CityPhilharmonic that will be
actually six different nativelanguages sung with the chorus
and soloists.
I'm calling that my AmericanIndian Symphony because it's
covering many regions of Indiancountry here in North America.
And then I've got so.
My son, hiloha, just turned 10years old and his name Hiloha
means thunder in the Chickasawlanguage, and he is quite a kid.

(58:11):
First of all, his favoritesport is our traditional
stickball sport.
The Chickasaws Play Stickball,which is actually the origins of
that's where La Crosse camefrom.
Hiloha is an incredible hornplayer and ballet dancer and he
started horn and ballet four anda half years ago.
So when he was just five yearsold, he came to me and said he
wanted to play an instrument,and I was like great, you talk
to the right guy.
I got him to start on piano.

(58:32):
He said nope, he said, and Isaid what do you want to play
Horn?
Okay, okay, wow he knew he wasnot six and he said that.
So, boy, we had this problembecause horns are by and big?

Liz (58:44):
I was just going to say do they make a horn the size of for
a five and a half?

Steph (58:47):
year old French horn.
This is cool we're talkingabout.
We're talking about I think.

Jerod Tate (58:53):
So I found pocket horns that you could buy in
China for 200 bucks $250 a piece.
They're just B-flat trumpets,so it didn't work.
And so then I foundthree-quarter sized F, single F
horns that were made in Dallas,and so I didn't realize this
after well.
I was a brass player in highschool, but they don't make many
single Fs anymore.
They were really common when Iwas a kid.
So I found a three-quartersized single F and that was

(59:14):
pretty big on him now.
But now he plays on aprofessional double horn now.
But he's been studying horn forfour and a half years and he's
in the Oklahoma YouthOrchestra's program here in
Oklahoma City and he also hadjust started ballet just that
summer and he's studies with theOklahoma City Ballet here and
he's finally got the role ofFritz and Nutcracker this year.
So he's doing Nutcracker andthe Ballet for a number of years

(59:34):
now.
So, yeah, he's really reallyexcited about that, but he's
very good at both of them andhe's just doing really, really
well.
So I am a very, very proud andbusy dad and I'm really really
proud of my son.
My first job is being hispersonal manager.
He's really busy with all kindsof wonderful, wonderful things

(59:56):
and I'm just really, reallygrateful that he's got that life
and just good kid, he's my guy.

Steph (01:00:03):
Well, now you get to have the role of the nurturing,
supportive patron that you wereso lucky to have as a child.

Jerod Tate (01:00:10):
I had so many great mentors when I was a kid, and
the gifts that my parents gaveme are just immeasurable.
Yeah, it's good stuff.
People did that for me, andtheir voices are in my mind
every single day, the ones thatI need.
It's right there, right there,my aunt, oh honey.

Steph (01:00:25):
What did you say?

Jerod Tate (01:00:26):
Oh honey, I just want to cry, or something.

Liz (01:00:28):
Yes, you will.

Jerod Tate (01:00:29):
I was just so fortunate that I had people like
that.
Gosh, my dad called me one timein 1991, I think it was.
I was in Cleveland, jared, Ineed to talk to you.
I'm like, oh boy, what did I do?
And he said I just want to makesomething really really clear
to you.
And I said, yeah, he said youare a Chickasaw man.
Yes, thank you, dad.
What's dad, what's going on?
He said, well, I just heardthis interview about somebody

(01:00:50):
who said that they're part orwhatever this kind of thing and
this is an issue that lots ofpeople have were mixed heritage,
that kind of thing.
And he said look, I just wantto make sure that you are really
, really clear that you are notthe son of a Chickasaw father.
You are a Chickasaw man.
And I said thank you, I'venever forgotten that.

Steph (01:01:08):
He said that yeah.

Jerod Tate (01:01:10):
And this is really important to me, and it's far
beyond skin color or percentageor anything like that.
It has to do with his belief inme, my spiritual connection,
and I mean my father believes inme, and so both my parents
believed in me very, very deeply.
And so I just I think aboutthese things, these statements
that people make for us fromtime to time.

(01:01:32):
They're really, reallyimportant, that we need those as
our ropes sometimes when we'rereally struggling, and so I
think about that with the kidsthat I teach my own son.
I want to make sure I'm sayingthings that they understand.
It's really important as ateacher that the kids know that
you love them.
They know it, boy.
They know it, and they willnever, ever forget it.
Their hearts always rememberthat.
It's really critical that weare always giving that.

(01:01:54):
If we don't say it with words,we're showing it in our actions,
in our looks, the time, thecare, the way we're interacting.
It's clear that we're showingthem that we care very deeply
about them, and that just comesin our attitude, in our spirit
and how we are with them.
So that's really importantstuff.

Steph (01:02:09):
Yeah Well, it's clear that that's the way that you
live your life.
That's very moving.

Liz (01:02:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you so much, jared, forjoining us today.

Steph (01:02:16):
This has been so wonderful.
It's been amazing.

Liz (01:02:19):
Just stay here and talk all day.
I know.

Steph (01:02:22):
Tell us all the stories I know.

Jerod Tate (01:02:24):
I could go in for a long time.
That's the.
My son will test it.
He'll be like, oh boy, here wego.

Steph (01:02:28):
Oh boy, here it comes.
Are you the dad that stays inthe parking lot forever talking
to the other people while yourson's like?

Jerod Tate (01:02:36):
dad.
If I had a daughter, I'd be oneof the Swiftie dads Absolutely.

Liz (01:02:45):
Love it it's amazing.

Jerod Tate (01:02:46):
If Hiloha wanted to go to one of those, the parking
lot concerts, I'd be right there.

Steph (01:02:50):
Yeah, they're having them in the theaters.
Yeah, my daughter my youngerdaughter went.

Jerod Tate (01:02:54):
Everywhere.
I'd be there, right there,maybe, a Swiftie dad talking all
the other dads.
So good, it's amazing.
Yes, jared, the want to beSwiftie dad.

Liz (01:03:03):
Yeah, that's the title of this episode.
I'm literally the best sign offwe've ever had.
Thank you so much for listeningtoday.
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Steph (01:03:23):
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Steph (01:03:45):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and edited by
Emily McMahon.

Liz (01:03:49):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
We'll see you next time.
Zenie archive.