September 27, 2023 • 50 mins
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Welcome back from summer vacation! Well, if your school changed names and had a big makeover, that is...ViolaCentric is now MusicianCentric. We've rebranded our podcast to create more inclusive conversations that resonate with all musicians. With a fresh line of merchandise and a revamped Patreon, we're thrilled to be joining you for a fourth Season!
What better way to get into it than by talking to our first guest, violinist Nick Kendall. We discuss his career journey, both as a solo artist and as part of the Grammy Award-winning ensemble, Time for Three. We look at the orchestral industry's struggles, the impact of digital media on our brains, and the power of improvisation. Our field is rapidly evolving and there are countless ways musicians can forge their paths, break away from traditional beliefs, and create something beautiful that resonates with audiences. Tune in for a candid, inspiring, and musical conversation!
**If you enjoyed this episode, please consider rating and writing a quick review for our podcast!
We have a Patreon site! Support us and get perks and bonus content!
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Mentioned in this episode:
Nick Kendall’s website
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Episode edited by: Emily MacMahon and Liz O’Hara
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steph (00:00):
Well, hello Hi.
Oh, my gosh Rusty Rusty overhere.
Liz (00:06):
It's been a minute.
Steph (00:07):
Summer has come and gone and here we are, back in our
little caves.
Liz (00:11):
It does officially feel like fall too in this first
recording we're doing, which islike finally.
Steph (00:17):
I'm so over summertime.
I'm just over the temperature,being humid and gross.
Liz (00:23):
How was your summer?
Steph (00:24):
So we went on a couple of vacations, but I think I need
to tell you about the road tripthat we took.
So during the pandemic, ourfamily watched this show on I
think it was like Nat Geo,called Secrets of the Zoo, so
let me know if you've watchedthis.
But basically it followsdocumentary style the vets and
the zoo techs and all the peoplebehind the scenes of the zoo
(00:47):
that care for the animals, etcetera.
And this particular one that wewatched was about the
Cincinnati Zoo.
So we told the kids, after thepandemic's over, we'll take a
road trip and we'll go to theCincinnati Zoo and we'll check
this out.
I love it, okay.
So finally we blocked off fivedays to go and we drove to
Cincinnati.
We got there, we toured aroundCincinnati.
(01:08):
It's a lovely city, it's reallycute.
There's the Ohio River goesright by it, it's on the water.
We had excellent weather, itwas beautiful.
We did all kinds of really coolthings in Cincinnati, anyway.
So we get back to the hotelthat first night in Cincinnati
and my husband Aaron is lookingat his phone and he's pulled up
(01:28):
images from the TV show and onone of the images is one of the
workers who we I can't rememberher name but who.
We followed as part of the showand he zooms in on her shirt
because she's wearing like alogo shirt that belongs to the
zoo and he calls me over andhe's like take a look at this.
And her shirt said Columbus.
Liz (01:48):
Zoo no, there are too many cities in Ohio that start with
the letter C.
Steph (01:54):
He's like should we tell the kids that we're in the wrong
city?
But I think for our purposesCincinnati was a better choice
as far as the city to visit.
And it was great.
We even asked like serverswe're like which is the better
city?
The consensus was we were inthe better city.
We were in the better city ofCincinnati and the zoo was
excellent.
So it was still great.
(02:15):
We've had a great time, but wedrove eight hours to the wrong
city in Ohio.
Liz (02:21):
I love that so much, it's so great.
What about you?
Well, it was your summer.
It was a strange summer becauseI personally had a lot of
change going on and a lot ofthings to sort of process and
handle and go through and a lotof like moving parts, and so
personally it was a very hardsummer.
(02:43):
I'm not going to lie, as youknow.
But I also got the opportunityto do some really cool things
and I just always forget well,professionally anyway, I always
forget that summertime offersthis opportunity to like educate
in a way that feels so muchmore enriching than during
school year.
So I had the chance to go doone week with a camp in Maryland
(03:08):
.
That was a day camp at a wineryand farm and it was all
outdoors and it was this summercamp for you or for like
children.
Steph (03:16):
I wish it was a summer camp.
Liz (03:18):
But what's amazing about having it there is like the
parents of these kids would justsit and have wine and cheese
and like hang out while the kidsare getting educated.
Steph (03:27):
Sell.
Liz (03:27):
Yes, it was really cool and I got to meet a lot of great
people on the faculty there andcoach chamber music and mostly
just do some master class typestuff, and so that was really
fun and also just a reminder tobe outside.
We didn't have our phones on us, it was hot, it was very sticky
.
I needed a shower pretty muchevery day I was there, but it
(03:48):
was really cool.
And then for the last few yearsI've done something called
Viala Boot Camp, which is like aspinoff of something that was
already created for violin.
I've talked about this before,but it was really funny because
this time we were all at thesame week on the main campus of
George Mason, and so we werelike coming into contact with
Violin Boot Camp at the sametime and it was just so funny to
(04:11):
like watch the difference inpersonality of what was
happening over there.
Steph (04:15):
And then we'd check on them, be like are you guys all
right?
There was a little boot camp.
We know what boot camps likefor violinists, exactly.
How are you doing?
Liz (04:22):
Oh, so that was really fun too, and I played a music
festival, an orchestra festival,in Pennsylvania very rural part
of Pennsylvania for severalyears before the pandemic, and
then it had not happened untilthis year, since 2020.
So it was like a family reunion.
It was just so great to comeback and I played Jurassic Park
and Concert which was like adream.
Steph (04:45):
That sounds like fun.
You know what?
I would much rather play thatone than.
Liz (04:49):
Star Wars?
Oh, 100%, hot take.
Yes, I don't ever want to playa Star Wars or a Harry Potter in
concert, ever again.
Steph (04:56):
I've done both.
It is.
Liz (04:57):
Yeah, they're brutal, they're brutal, it's brutal.
So things like that, a fewvacations, you know.
But, as I mentioned, there'sbeen a lot of change in my
personal life.
So this year is going to be aninteresting year A lot of
discovery, a lot of exploringnew things.
So we'll see.
Steph (05:15):
Welcome to the Musician Centric podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph and I'm Liz.
Liz (05:28):
And we're so glad you joined us.
Let's dive in.
She's talking about theelephant.
Look at you.
Steph (05:39):
Back with the segue she's got it, she's got it.
So if you downloaded thisepisode, you kind of already
know this that we are rebrandingthis podcast used to be known
as the Viola Centric podcast.
We're both violists, but ourconversations have always been
ones that anybody, any type ofmusician, could benefit from.
So we decided it was just timeto rebrand and call ourselves
(06:04):
the Musician Centric podcast,because that's really.
I mean, we're for musicians,our conversations are for
musicians, so we're glad you'rehere.
Liz (06:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was a big decision for usbecause we hatched this idea
together on a porch during thepandemic.
For those of you who don't knowour origin story and the name
Viola Centric came verynaturally to us.
It just kind of like rolled outand we were attached to it.
It's been an interestingexercise in like releasing an
(06:33):
attachment in a way, to bewilling to take the risk to
change things up and see if theycan benefit our mission, which
is really to inspire the peoplewho do the type of work that we
do and share the perspectives ofso many other inspiring
individuals who we just havelearned so much, and the
information we receive, theperspectives we hear and share,
(06:56):
absolutely translate to anyinstrumentalist out there and
even people who are justmusician admirers.
So I think it just broadens thepossibilities and hopefully,
from a perspective of ourmusician friends who maybe have
been reticent to listen becausethey thought it was a Viola
podcast, can listen now and sayoh hey, these Violists are cool
(07:18):
and they're talking aboutsomething I understand.
Steph (07:21):
And you could talk about it Now.
It doesn't have to be a guiltypleasure.
Liz (07:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't have to be like.
I admit that I listen to theViolaCentric podcast!
Such a fact, like I admit that Iwas a big in sync fan in the
early 2000s- but it should alsobe said for our friends that
have been part of our communityfor the last few years, and one
of the reasons that it was veryhard for us to make the decision
to change our name was actuallybecause of the little community
(07:45):
of followers, friends we'vegained over the last few years.
We did not want anyone to feellike we were sort of abandoning
our roots, and so the podcast isgoing to be.
You're going to notice, it'sexactly the same.
We're not doing anythingdifferent in terms of the
content.
We just wanted a name thatwould be a little bit more
inviting to someone who feltlike it wasn't for them.
So we hope you'll stick with usin this transition.
Steph (08:08):
Yeah, so inside the box, same product outside of the box,
that's right, just newpackaging, that's right, you
know when, like how Pepsi doesthat every 10 years or so.
Liz (08:18):
And we will still very proudly feature Violist guests
throughout the season.
So you know, because it stillis an unsung hero of the
orchestra family.
Steph (08:29):
Yeah.
Liz (08:29):
And it deserves its own mention.
Yeah, but just because it's aViolist guest doesn't mean they
don't have something to say forall musicians.
Steph (08:36):
Yeah, so don't like not download those episodes, you
guys.
This isn't licensed todiscriminate.
Liz (08:43):
Yeah, that's right.
Steph (08:45):
So what has changed the name?
Obviously, now we areMusicianCentric, we have a new
Instagram channel atMusicianCentric.
It's actually our old account,just we're going to rename it.
Liz (08:57):
So if you already followed, you don't have to do anything.
You don't have to do anything,yeah.
Steph (09:00):
So same thing with our Facebook page MusicianCentric
and our website MusicianCentric.
com.
If you have us, like,bookmarked as a ViolaCentric,
it'll scoot you on over thereand you can just update your
bookmark.
Liz (09:13):
Yes, we also have some new merch, so that's very exciting
New merch.
Steph (09:17):
This is what we're really excited about.
So we have a new logo, yeah.
Liz (09:21):
We spent a lot of time working with someone very
brilliant on a new logo and somenew art for the podcast, and so
that's very exciting.
So we're going to feature thaton some new merch.
You can still get ViolaCentricmerch if you'd like Vintage
Viola-centric merch.
Steph (09:36):
You know hot sales, New vintage.
Maybe it'll be worth somethingon eBay.
Liz (09:40):
I hope so, but you can find that on.
We're still working with ourgood friend, lisa Divek, who has
Alto Clef gifts, if you've beenfollowing us, but she now has a
website called EnsembleOutfitters, so we'll keep that
information on our website inthe notes, but you can visit her
website Ensemble Outfitters andfind MusicianCentric merch,
(10:01):
which is good.
Steph (10:02):
Another way you can support us is by joining our
Patreon.
We're going to have ad-freeepisodes there, we're going to
have extra bonus content there,and then in the future this
season we'll be doing somethingagain with our Joy Loves Company
group, our community.
So that's where you will getaccess to all of that really fun
and amazing stuff that we dowith that group.
Liz (10:23):
Yeah, we'll release more information about that coming up
, but that group has grown overthe last two years that it's
been in existence and it's beena really big part of our lives
for the last couple of seasons,right.
Steph (10:34):
Yeah, it's a really special, special group, really
special part of what we do.
Liz (10:37):
You can also support us simply by sharing with your
musician friends, whoever youtalk to, about the conversations
you hear already on the podcast.
If you enjoy what you'rehearing right now and this is
your first time tell peopleabout it.
It's so helpful to us to spreadthe word, and our goal is to
really reach as many listenersas we can, particularly with our
(10:58):
new name.
So please share away.
Steph (11:01):
Yes, is there anything else?
Oh, write us a review.
Yeah, if you love this.
Liz (11:05):
Reviews really help us.
They work with the elusivealgorithms.
Steph (11:10):
Yeah, so rate us five stars and write us a review and
help us connect with more peopleand these conversations.
They can be enjoyed by evenmore people with your help and
your support.
So thank you in advance forthat.
Liz (11:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think this is going to be agood year, season four.
Steph (11:27):
I'm excited.
I'm excited.
So our guest today, as you sawin the title, is violinist Nick
Kendall, and if you don't knowthis guy, do a quick Google,
look him up, watch some videos.
He's amazing.
He's a Grammy Award-winningartist with his Time for Three
trio.
He's so charismatic and you'llhear that in our conversation as
(11:49):
he talks about how important itis for him to connect, and he's
definitely one of those peoplethat uses music as a way to
connect to an audience.
Liz (11:58):
Yeah, yeah, I found this conversation to be, so, you know
, glimmery, like it just lit somany things up for me, and he
really has that concept of whatour purpose is, so down and it's
interesting too to think about.
He comes from a prettysignificant pedigree.
His grandfather, John Kendall,was like one of the forefathers
(12:18):
of Suzuki tradition here in theStates, and so it's interesting
to hear him talk about how hecame to his own understanding of
why playing violin was apassion for him in his life and
it did require him sort ofcoming around to like, ok, this
is what I thought everyoneexpected of me, and kind of
rebelling against that andcoming to the conclusion that it
(12:40):
was actually the feeling ofwhat it was like to perform and
what it was like to do thatthing in front of a group of
people.
And he talks about findingtheir audience, and I love that
a lot too.
It really sparked for me thisidea of just internal creative
expression for every individual,and I think the way to create
the most amount of fulfillmentout of this career is to figure
(13:03):
out for each individual, likewhat it is that you would like
to be doing or saying with yourmusic, and in his case, it's the
feeling.
Did you capture that feeling inwhat you were playing?
I loved that so much.
Steph (13:15):
So relatable.
Yeah.
So if you're anything like us,you're going to love this.
But let us know.
Email us, dm us on ourInstagram, message us on
Facebook.
Let us know what you thoughtand enjoy this episode featuring
violinist Nick Kendall.
Liz (13:31):
It's that time of year we're back to school and we are
back to gigging.
Even if you're not mentallyready for the season, you can
count on our season sponsor,Potter Violins, to get your
equipment ready.
When's the last time you'vereared your bow?
Steph (13:45):
stuff.
Oh, I feel like it was recently, but I bet it's been over six
months.
So I got to get over there andget it freshened up.
Oh, and I need new backupstrings and an instrument
adjustments.
Liz (13:58):
Sounds like it might be about time.
Yeah, I do love to get in therefor a visit to our favorite
technicians as we approach thechange of season.
Hmm, maybe I need a new casetoo.
Steph (14:09):
And, as we've said before , if you need a rental
instrument, they're the place togo.
My daughter and many of mystudents rent from Potters and
the instruments are reallyfantastic, even the smaller
violas.
Liz (14:20):
Yes, get back to your music this season with confidence by
visiting Potter Violins.
So your equipment will be ready, even if you might need a bit
more of a warm-up.
Steph (14:34):
Today we are joined by violinist Nick Kendall.
Described as a poster child fora new breed of super musicians
by the Washington Post, he isliterally foraging his own path,
making his career, performingaround the world as a soloist
and with his GrammyAward-winning trio Time for
Three.
But that's just the tip of theiceberg.
(14:54):
Amplomatic of Nick's diverseartistic expressions are special
projects that include composingthe soundtrack for the feature
film Land, releasing the GrammyAward-winning album Letters for
the Future with Time for Threeand performing with various
recording artists.
Nick is also an artist inresidence at Lincoln Center in
New York City and he's veryinvolved in educational programs
(15:16):
as well, and, honestly, this isa comically abridged version.
Nick (15:20):
Could have y'all have done that before I got on?
I mean jeez.
Liz (15:24):
No, no this is the best part.
We like to make every guestreally uncomfortable with it.
Yes, when put on you guys 100%success rate.
Nick (15:31):
Thank you so, Nick welcome .
Steph (15:33):
Welcome to the Musician-centric podcast.
We are so excited to have you.
This is the first episode ofour new season and we're just
super thrilled that you're here.
Nick (15:42):
Absolutely.
Steph (15:43):
So we were talking before we started recording that
you're here in DC, yeah, and wewere also talking about how
people are annoyed if you sayyou're from DC and you're not
actually living there.
Nick (15:53):
I actually now live in DC, but when I grew up here, I was
living in Maryland.
I was living in.
Liz (15:58):
Silver Spring I had a family in Tacoma Park.
Nick (16:01):
So actually I grew up in the area in Maryland, in
Montgomery County.
Steph (16:06):
Montgomery County.
I grew up in Gaithersburg.
Nick (16:08):
There you go.
Yes, love it that.
Steph (16:10):
So we've played together.
I've played in orchestras whereyou're soloing by yourself and
with Time For Three, so italways feels like kind of a
homecoming whenever you're inthe area.
Nick (16:20):
Th at's it.
It's so cool to have you here,thank you.
Steph (16:22):
But of course, as a graduate of Curtis, we feel like
you probably could have starteda career as a soloist just
right from there, but you didn'tchoose to do that.
Yeah, so tell us about theformation of Time For Three and
how that came about and kind oflike how you decided that maybe
a full-on solo career wasn'treally for you.
Nick (16:43):
I get this question a lot and it makes sense because, yeah
, you're right, it's a huge deal, like it was an enormous game
changer for me to get intoCurtis and obviously at that
point I was thinking of just thesolo track, right, and I was
with this incredibly famousteacher and of course at Curtis
you sort of share teachers, atleast very much.
That was the case back when Iwas going to school and I got in
(17:04):
in 1997.
I'm aging myself but I was sofocused on just my instrument
and playing the great repertoirewhich I still love.
I definitely feel like all ofthose masterworks and all those
composers which I really had tostudy and practice and really
get to know shaped me as aperson but also as an artist,
(17:25):
and probably a lot of the workthat, when in pre-Curtis, was
also part of what, even if Iwasn't realizing the focus that
I had and my parents made me andmy teachers made me practice I
hated practicing when I wasyoung Were part of the
substantive core of who I havebecome, the freedom that I have
from that discipline and, yeah,I think when I was growing up
(17:46):
here I was also really intoother styles of music and so I
brought all that desire toconnect with people outside of
like core classical music when Iwent to Curtis and Philadelphia
has a super rich musical scene,the Philly Sound, which
includes obviously thePhiladelphia Orchestra but it
also R&B, soul and jazzobviously some of the most
(18:09):
famous jazz clubs and I wasreally attracted to that
community while I was at Curtisand so kind of my activities in
high school, playing in folkbands and I actually played in a
bucket band here in Georgetownbefore they had sound ordinance
laws.
Oh my gosh.
Like kind of like stomp Back.
When stomp was starting, myfriends, my high school friends
(18:30):
and I were playing like trashcan buckets upside down and
paint buckets when we set up andplay beats, hip hop beats and
go-go beats here in DC.
And so all of that fed intocoming to Curtis and starting my
own bands outside of playingBrahms and Beethoven and Mahler.
And then, like my second yearat Curtis, there were two other
students Actually it was morethan that, it was like three or
(18:52):
four who used improvisation as away to kind of like connect
with each other.
And you have to understand, theculture at Curtis is very small
, it's a very small student body.
But only a couple of decadesbefore that, jazz music was
forbidden to be played at Curtis.
So you can understand thementality when late 90s, early
(19:13):
2000s, the idea that classicalmusicians, especially at Curtis
improvising have jam sessionswas like whoa big deal, and
that's what we did.
I found two other guys like minedid.
That was the founding membersof Time for Three Back Then Zach
DePue, who's no longer in theband, and Renan Meyer, and we
were obviously not thinking ofinstrumentation at all, because
it's two violins and double bass, but we were literally just
(19:34):
connecting and we were usingmusic that we just usually these
jam sessions usually happendirectly after orchestral
rehearsals and back then we hadthe great maestro, who I miss
dearly.
He taught me so much and somany of us from that generation
miss his presence OttoWiener-Mueller, who was so
strict and so old school but soawesome and made us concentrate.
(19:57):
I remember when I was firstjoining the orchestra, I hated
it because I just wanted to play.
I just wanted to play, but no,he was so strict and so we
needed to do something.
That was the antithesis of thatenergy, which was, after
everybody left Curtis Hall, weturned down the lights for vibes
.
It had a dimmer switch and wehad just so very intimate space
and we just jammed.
That's awesome.
Steph (20:17):
That's amazing because it really feels like we've talked
about this before, liz howimprovisation was like a big
thing back in the day of writingyour own concertos and all that
.
And classical music got awayfrom improvisation and it just
seems like this is just anatural coming back together of
the way that you are.
Nick (20:36):
It's so cool in my career now we're so lucky to be engaged
by better and better, morefamous orchestras right, but
even not the top orchestras butthe more I'm, first of all, I'm
recognizing people in theorchestra, but it isn't so
incredible anymore that the useof improvisation or the use of
kind of extended technique issort of like a norm now.
(20:58):
And when we were actually justlast week, we were in Gettysburg
playing a show, our first showof the season, and we did a
whole outreach with theGettysburg College, the famous
composer, avner Dormann, who hasdone a lot here in this
community, and with Eschenbachwhen he was music director of
National Symphony.
He's a professor there and it'sso cool that the student body
like improvisation is part ofthe classical conservatory's
(21:20):
language and it's not such a bigdeal and that's awesome.
We always ask people raise yourhands.
Who's a little bit afraid ofimprovisation?
And we get people lookingaround the room going like, well
, not, I know, but that's nothappening anymore.
People are like, yeah, that'scool.
Yeah, what key, let's go.
Liz (21:38):
Just so cool.
Well, it's so fascinatingbecause I think a lot of times
the origin of this conversationfor us starts with OK,
improvisation was just such ahuge part of the tradition and
then became this let's emulatethe masters.
And so we were taught for acertain generation or two or
three that we had to playeverything a certain way, and it
(21:59):
created this kind of box for usthat I think we didn't
necessarily know that we werebeing placed in that box.
Nick (22:08):
Exactly.
Liz (22:08):
Until you feel this restlessness, like for you,
you're like okay, my orchestraltraining is amazing and all of
us who had that experience arelike yeah.
I loved, loved my orchestraltraining in college.
But there is this feeling oflike don't do that, don't do
that.
Duh, duh, duh, duh.
You're like letting yourselfout of the box you had to.
Nick (22:26):
You like felt this need to do it yeah.
Liz (22:28):
Yeah, and I think that's maybe what's happening on a
whole Is that musicians of anytradition are saying wait a
second, I don't want to justhave to do this thing, I want to
learn how to improvise, I wantto be a little bit more free
with my music and composers now,or I don't know, maybe working
with that a little bit.
So like classical musician iskind of blending with other
(22:49):
things too, which any of thatnew music today is very bold,
completely, yeah, I mean it'ssuch a.
Nick (22:55):
It's actually an incredibly disruptive time, but
it's a very exciting time if oneis taking the long view.
We are in a time when how wecommunicate with each other is
we're really aware of it.
There's so many conflicts inthe world and we feel divided,
but yet we feel like somebodyelse is telling us we're divided
but yet we're really connected.
And what does that mean?
(23:17):
And what does that mean toconnect person to person or
using our phones and completelyseeing society just wrapped up
in a screen and the internet?
So all of these things are, Ifeel, helping a lot of really
important conversations to behad that maybe wouldn't have had
and which is making peoplereally question their activities
(23:40):
and I don't think this is onlyin our space and music.
I think this is all across theboard and so long as AI doesn't
take over and become self-awareand start killing everybody
which is scary and it's acompletely off topic, but you
know what I'm saying.
If we continue asking thesequestions and understanding what
(24:00):
rules mean or what traditionmeans.
And it doesn't have to bebinding, but it can be a guide
to navigate a point ofdestination on the horizon,
which sometimes is a greatconstraint, which otherwise
you're just kind of blindly inthe thing, doing the thing.
And just what does it all mean?
And that's definitely been awonderful ingredient for our
(24:20):
industry.
This questioning and thisalmost turnaround and I also
want to say improvisation I feellike it's also changing from
being like just a thing to beinga tool, just like vibrato is or
low speed is.
Improvisation is literally a wayof listening.
It's your technique, followingyour musicality, rather than a
lot of times in classical musicit ends with your technique,
(24:42):
because you're trying to beperfect but then you're not
actually listening and adjusting.
So it's interpretation as well.
I think improvisation meansinterpretation, which is
exciting thing.
It's an exciting thing, that'sawesome.
Steph (24:57):
I always admired you and other people who, like yo-yo-mah
, just seems like the techniqueis no limitation at all and it
just allows your improvisationto be a direct line from your
brain to what comes out of yourinstrument.
Whereas I think a lot of people, me included I feel like
sometimes my technique is likethat limiting factor.
I kind of know what I wouldwant.
(25:17):
But then it's like but how do Imake that?
Nick (25:19):
happen.
Steph (25:19):
I wonder if a lot of us classical musicians probably
feel inhibited in that way.
Nick (25:23):
If you know how to communicate with another person
and you're able to have areciprocal energy, meaning that
if there's an understanding andyou're kind of going down a path
of communication right, thatdoesn't necessarily mean
language, it can mean a feel, avibe in a relationship or
whatever.
Back to classical musicians orclassically trained musicians
(25:44):
you are absolutely capable ofharnessing that vibe.
You just have to practice it.
It's really as simple as that.
You have to put yourself incircumstances that make you flex
around what you're feeling, andyou could probably make up
exercises yourself and it'sgoing to be uncomfortable at
first, but so is like learning anew language.
But you take small steps and,especially if you've been in the
(26:04):
world for a while at our age,you sort of self-learn and apply
those feelings because it'sthat X factor you can't describe
and you apply those to otherthings in the music making
process and we do that a lot.
We have these jam sessions likeimprov sessions, but I also
have exercises that kind offorce you to behave with it when
you're with your instrument,force you to behave in a certain
(26:26):
way that you have to completelylock into your feelings and
your impulses, and the processkind of helps break down a lot
of walls and a lot of times youget out of these exercises and
people feel like, wow, I didn'trealize I could do that.
I didn't realize I could feelthis way while playing the
instrument, and that's cool.
Steph (26:45):
That's such.
The key, isn't it?
It's tapping into what's realwithin your feeling and not what
someone's expecting.
Nick (26:52):
You know, I'll have one story to that because it applies
to this area.
So I did the National SymphonyYoung Artist Competition, when
you get to play a piece with theNational Symphony on stage.
So I did that when I was inhigh school and I somehow got in
and I was scared.
So I practiced a lot more,which was great, and I ended up
winning Okay, but that's notwhat hooked me.
(27:13):
What hooked me to finally theviolin being not something that
my grandfather or my parentswanted me to do and said that I
have something special, but Iwant to be on the basketball
team and I want to go play outon the streets.
To me, feeling the power was Ihad practiced so much and this
was Lalo Sinfini, espanol, and Iplayed in the concert hall with
my teacher's sister, veraDenchenko, who's still in this
(27:36):
area.
She is an amazing pianist andartist and so she was
accompanying me, she was playingthe orchestral part and I just
remember, literally during theperformance you know that scene
in the first matrix where at theend, all physical things become
digital and you just sort ofsee the way forward.
I was so zoned in to the pieceand putting my heart on the line
.
After I played, I came offstage and I felt this exhaustion
(27:57):
, but not physical exhaustion.
I had just laid out my heart onthat stage, like I had just
done a thing, and that feelingwas like dude, I want that all
the time.
And so for me it was just aboutlike man, that's a simple
formula, work harder, and it wasalso I figured out the goal.
So practicing wasn't this blindforward motion.
(28:20):
It was like okay, if I know mystuff, then when I get to the
thing and I'm the pressure'shigh, I can just go for it.
So, going to how one feels,that was the game changer for me
of owning it.
Liz (28:32):
Yeah, it just makes so much sense.
It probably has to do withinternal motivation, depending
on who you are, but it resonatesvery deeply with me because if
you think about the preparationfor something and usually for me
it's ensemble-based I have aquartet and so I do a lot of
chamber music and when somethingis really hard in my part, I'm
not that concerned for myself.
(28:53):
I want to do it right for them,but at the same time, when I'm
able to play something reallychallenging and we're all doing
it together and I did itsuccessfully with them the
feeling is the thing that makesit so much better.
Nick (29:08):
It's what makes it worth it, it's not that we oh wow, we
lined up perfectly.
It was like we said a thingyeah, we said a thing exactly.
Liz (29:15):
It's really good and it's a nice reframe, I think,
especially for a youngermusician who's in the mode of
just trying to play things rightTotally.
Yeah, just like I got to geteverything right.
Well, what's the goal ofgetting it right?
Steph (29:27):
Well, so short of a National Symphony concerto
competition, what would motivateyour average student to get in
that place and have thatepiphany moment?
Nick (29:36):
Well, my whole thing with young kids and I incorporate
this into anything I'm doingwhere I have the honor of having
kids listening to me isobviously I'm going to be doing
my thing, I'm playing, and whenI play, I just naturally am.
So I'm doing my thing.
So the kids are already likewhoa, that looks like a lot of
fun, that looks awesome.
And then I have the opportunityto say listen, I got here not
(30:00):
just by like watching a YouTubevideo.
This did not come in a TikTokformat.
This is literally a process,but always understanding and
being in touch with the factthat I loved it.
But the love part if I had 100%of the pie, the love part was
maybe 6% of it.
The rest of it, the 94%, wasapplying my practice time to the
(30:22):
stuff that didn't come easy,stuff.
To answer your question, it wasthat duality of you master good
intonation, good bow speed,good posture, and then, after
you master that, then I'm goingto unleash you and, oh boy, that
was a goal for me.
Liz (30:37):
It's like the discipline element of it.
That's a challenging thing toteach to kids but I think that
that process of making it funeven in the discipline area that
part of it is the thing I thinkI've really tried to implement
my own teaching in the last fewyears is just like I get it.
But this is a problem thatneeds to be solved.
So let's figure out how tosolve the problem and then you
(30:59):
just work to find the solution.
Nick (31:02):
I feel like teachers are so underappreciated and the
nurturers of the world andmothers are so underappreciated.
I have so much respect forteachers now and I look at my
sister, who's an incredibleteacher.
She's amazing.
Yumi Kendall, shout out rightnow, snap, snap, snap.
And shout out Yumi, go checkout her podcast with her and I'm
just dropping all the things.
Go check out, that's right, gocheck out with Joe Conyers.
(31:26):
Hey, a rising tide, Teachers Ican't you guys have like,
teachers out there have such atough time right now because
kids are seeing what's cool outthere, but what's cool can take
two seconds, but there's nolongevity to that and teachers
and parents have this task.
But that's, I mean, that's alsoa good challenge to figure out
(31:46):
how to counter that withnurturing, which means that
working on the stuff that isn'tcool, that is boring.
But my God, if you don't do it,you're not going to be great,
and great meaning reach yourfull potential and have this
freedom to do what you want onyour own terms in the future.
If anytime I have a chance,teachers in the area, through
this wonderful opportunity tospeak to you guys, just
(32:08):
understand that it's soimportant what that community is
doing and it's so hard.
It's so hard, but don't give up, please.
Steph (32:16):
We need it.
Well, you know, I really dofeel like as a teacher myself
and as a mom, that thisgeneration and I don't want to
talk trash on this generation atall, because we all have
challenges and tendencies orwhatever from when we grew up
but it's a very short attentionspan Generation and I think that
it may take time, but I thinkthat these kids are going to
(32:37):
realize that, okay, I'm notgoing to have longevity or
acquire any long-term skills by30 seconds of investment of my
time and I think it's going tocome back around to people
realizing that that's not theway to build a skill, like
you're not going to learn how toplay the violin or the piano
from a 90 second TikTok video,but it might take a little while
(32:58):
, but I think it's going to haveto come around.
What are we going to keep doing?
Shortening these TikTok?
videos and now.
Your attention span is fiveseconds.
The limit is five seconds.
Liz (33:06):
You know what I mean.
I'd stuff your comment aboutattention span.
It's so interesting because I'mwitnessing something.
I have a very small studio,that's awesome though I'm
witnessing something reallyinteresting with my kids where
at the end of last year we haddone one of those 100-day
practice challenges, you knowAwesome.
And so we'd built up and wedidn't actually do a recital, we
just did this class together,group gathering and whoever
(33:26):
wanted to play could play.
It was really low-key and it wasso fascinating because even my
youngest kids at the end of thatwere really able to formulate
opinions about the challengesthey had practiced.
They were making progress.
It was like really tangible.
And then we started this yearand this year we've talked about
this stuff.
I've been having our ownchallenges with getting things
off the ground and it just beena weird fall.
(33:46):
There's this cultural societalcultural frenzy right now, and
those same kids are incapable,right now, of giving me the same
amount of focus that they weregiving me.
Nick (33:57):
six months ago.
Liz (33:58):
And I'm working at it.
It's my job now to redirect.
It's my job now to be like okay, I get it, there's a zillion
things pulling your attentionright now.
If you want to get this goalaccomplished, you have to do
this work.
But there's a lot workingagainst us and there's a lot
working against the kids, Ithink, in terms of this
90-second sound bite, theirbrains are being wired to feel
(34:22):
like that's how life is.
That's what's happening to themwhen you're successful, they
are able to reposition the waythey feel about these things and
they're able to give theirattention and they're able to
give their focus.
And some of these kids that aregraduating now have really
great vision for what they wantthe world to look like and if
we're able to be, a part of that.
Steph (34:41):
That's amazing and our industry Liz and I do a lot of
orchestral work and we're seeinga lot of the organizations that
we're working with reallystruggling right now.
Nick (34:52):
Oh yeah.
Steph (34:52):
Do you see that in your line of going around the country
?
Nick (34:54):
No, we actually we had some bad news just coming into
the season where we had a datewith the New Jersey Symphony
playing our new concerto thatwas composed for us by Ken Butts
, which we love, and oh, yeah,yeah, totally.
But Shian, who is the grandmaestro who actually recorded
with us with the PhiladelphiaOrchestra she's the music
director of New Jersey Symphonyand they had to lay off 15% of
(35:18):
their staff not orchestra, thankGod, but the staff and then
they had to cut like threeclassical weeks, and one of
those weeks was ours.
You know, we have strugglesright now happening between
management and orchestra, theunions the tale of the pandemic
is still there and alsoaddressing some of these other
concerns you know, like howorchestras promote themselves
(35:38):
and the meaning of a symphonyorchestra within a community.
It's all these things are stillhappening and, yeah, it is
unfortunately prevalent around.
Steph (35:46):
So what part does programming and all that play
into making sure that peoplewant to come to orchestra
concerts?
Nick (35:54):
Yeah, tough, I there's a lot to talk about.
I mean, yeah, first of all.
First of all, in my opinion,the music is not broken.
The delivery systems often are,for me, the ones to first
address.
Liz (36:11):
And like.
Nick (36:13):
I don't think Beethoven symphony is broken.
I don't think you need to be.
I mean, maybe I'm an idiot, butI don't think you need to be
educated in classical music tototally be moved by Beethoven
Symphony If it's in the hands ofartists who take the time and
care and love to communicatethat energy.
(36:35):
And so I think that's for me,that's the answer to that,
because you can program coolermusic.
You can bring time for three,all you want, but that's just
really awesome icing but it's alot of icing and you don't get
good cake that sucks, you get astomach ache.
You know what I'm saying?
It has to be the love and thecraft have to be.
(36:56):
When that's there, then peoplefeel the music.
And what happens when peoplefeel the music?
They want more of that feelingand they'll come to find that
moment of when, that X factorthat happens between humans,
indoor, outdoor, wherever.
I mean it's a magical thing,but it can only happen if it's a
(37:17):
truly reciprocal conversation,meaning that everybody shows up
because they want to be there todo the thing.
Do the thing is our thing, isour word.
Today.
Liz (37:26):
And it's not like, yeah, I mean you can program some light
music.
Nick (37:30):
If we're talking orchestra music, you can program
amplified music all you want,but people will get tired of
that, and you also.
You just don't detect thegravitas.
So this, what I'm saying,obviously is complex.
It's a very complex issue andtopic because the way our
industry, the way theprofessional classical music
world is set up, and the way ithas been for years and years,
(37:54):
there is a format and there is arespected way of doing things,
and it's not a quick and easyfix.
It too will have to go througha pendulum swing.
Liz (38:03):
I just want to circle back to you saying delivery system,
because I don't think we'veheard it referred to this way,
but the concept that the musicitself is worse.
Anyone's investment 100%.
Nick (38:15):
A million percent.
Liz (38:16):
But the delivery system is so multifaceted.
As soon as you said that, I waslike ping, ping, this, this,
this.
There's so many differentelements to that, but I think
and I'll kind of go there, I'llgo there a little bit.
Go there Because we freelanceand we play an orchestra.
You alluded a little bit to theinvestment of the musicians on
stage and I would imagine I meanwe have this experience In fact
I think we've talked about thison other episodes where in some
(38:38):
groups, everyone is engaged andinvested and there are
situations and circumstancesthat have been created in order
for those musicians to feel thatway.
Nick (38:47):
Exactly.
Liz (38:48):
And then there are groups where the musicians do not have
that engagement.
Exactly, and when they don't100%, they are just pulling up,
parking the car, walking ingetting their instrument out
playing the job.
Absolutely and they don'tnecessarily even think about the
100, 200, 500 people sitting inthe audience.
Yes, that is a massive problem.
Nick (39:07):
They have a million things going on in society, in our
culture.
This is a job, this is a way oflife, when people are pulling
up and doing their job andtrying but then they have to go
up 95 to another one and then gohome and teach a studio and
then raise five kids.
That's the way that theyunderstood the market was and is
(39:28):
and they're able to supportthemselves that way.
So there's no shade on thecurrent, the individuals in this
situation.
It's everything that is set upand propped up to support that.
My sister and I talk about thisall the time.
It's the pipeline, it's aculture, but it's not.
I believe you just can't fixthe problem by just looking at
(39:49):
the current situation andblaming the people who show up
and look exhausted and thensaying you guys are the problems
.
No, it's not only that, it'sthe whole thing.
But we as a culture, we as acommunity, and the business has
to understand that and has tolook at that and has to address
it.
And it's again, it's not easy,but there are ways of addressing
that through a lot of questionsand dialogue.
(40:11):
But yes, that is.
I didn't want to say it, butyeah, that's what it is.
Liz (40:15):
Well, I think any freelancer and that's what we do
, that's the majority of people,I think, that listen to us are
freelancers, and so we're all inthat same boat together and we
know what it feels like to justbe at a job.
That's a job and that is achallenging thing as a musician
because what is the goal ofbeing a musician?
It's not to just sit down andbe thinking in your head the
(40:39):
whole time like I wish this wasover.
Steph (40:42):
None of us are doing this to get rich.
No, we would have a nine tofive job, I don't know, banking
or doing something else.
That was definitely steady, itwas definitely predictable.
But we do this because we havethat.
Why we were chasing thatfeeling that you're talking
(41:02):
about Nick, where you feel thatfeeling of this is why.
This is why and I have to havethat feeling again.
So I'm going to do it again.
But it's really hard to getbogged down day to day.
Nick (41:13):
No, we so my band.
We're always talking about ourcareer trajectory and it's very
complex because you can't reallypin us in one area.
It was a huge honor to be ableto receive the accolades that we
did for this body of work thatwe just put out.
Steph (41:27):
You mean the Grammy?
Nick (41:27):
Yes, and it was huge because for a group like us that
is so hard to define and out ofthe box and weird, and you
definitely cannot understand itthrough the internet.
You have to be there and bethere yeah.
But the Grammys have and to beable to do it.
And for the album, which was acombination of Jennifer Higdon
and Kevin Putz both pull asurprise, winning, so that's a
(41:49):
name people know.
And then with the PhiladelphiaOrchestra, my God.
And then with one of the mostold, old and respected and
culture shaping record labels ofall time, Deutsche Grammophone,
the Axis Point really made for.
And then the Grammys on top ofthat really defined who we are.
So that's been huge for usbeing associated as like artists
(42:09):
who are damn serious about ourcraft but we work hard to have a
lot of fun doing it.
And what does that mean in ourspace?
And so playing the orchestralmarket has been so wonderful
because we love the experience.
We know the onstage chemistryand just the chamber music thing
and like all that vibe.
We know it so well.
But we also are striving toreach our audiences.
(42:32):
A lot of times in our worldpeople are coming because of
subscription.
I mean now more they're comingbecause of us.
But you know, our solo showshave been going so well, and
that's without having to bebooked with an orchestra.
That's just us and our audience.
And so we're trying to figurethat out too.
How do we get to our people?
And we're also still in theprocess of defining what our
market is.
(42:52):
And it's amazing, after CharlesYang joined we really took the
time.
Eight years ago now, we reallytook the time to figure out who
we are, and so we're a goodstart on a journey, but still
trying to figure it out, that'sawesome.
Steph (43:04):
That's what we're all doing as freelancers, especially
right now, is figuring out whatthe future of our industry is
going to look like.
It's unfortunate, but there's alot of orchestras that are not
around anymore especially ourregional orchestras, and that's
real sad.
It's forcing us all to kind ofexamine where is my career going
(43:25):
to go in the future?
What does my 10 years look like?
It's just a really challengingtime to find out where you fit
in, where you will be.
Nick (43:33):
But it's awesome to hear you both of you speak about your
intentionality in the musicbeing still the flag post in
your life, like how you want toexist.
If, like you, didn't have that,it almost sounds like life
would be just almost meaningless.
I mean, it's so important.
So it's really great thatpeople are still like
professionals like yourself,still a restless and not
comfortable, and I think that'sreally important.
(43:55):
And I also say that that's theingredient to creating your own
thing that is successful.
And in our world, success isbeing able to live in this world
, which means you got to be ableto have some sort of income.
But if you're a restless artist, you've been in the industry,
you feel like there's more.
You just haven't untapped it.
That's awesome and that'sunfortunately it's rare.
But when you have it, I thinkmore and more people are feeling
(44:17):
that now, but that's great.
So keep going at that.
Liz (44:20):
It might be out of necessity, right.
Nick (44:21):
Yeah.
Liz (44:22):
I mean for us to have these conversations out loud.
It took having all of our worktaken away in order to do that
and have all the space to evenjust consider, like, the whys of
what we're still doing.
And I think for many of us it'screated a sense of agency that
we didn't have before, but we'restill certainly in the minority
.
I think most musicians who haveto carve out this, living in
(44:43):
the orchestral realmparticularly I have a lot of
limiting beliefs around what isavailable to them.
There's that whole scarcitything and what's interesting is
to consider the idea that it'sthe only field where we just put
it in the hands of someone elseto hire us.
Every other musician out thereis just trying to create
something with their own voice.
Nick (45:04):
Amen.
Liz (45:04):
Either with a band or on their own, with their own
singing and songwriting orwhatever.
Nick (45:08):
This is part of the culture I was talking about at
Music Institutions, like when Iwas at school.
The kind of thing was, if youget management, you're set.
And that was before theinternet.
I went to Curtis like 97 to2001.
So it's like the internet wasnot where it is now the
accessibility to making your ownmarketing stuff, and that was
not forget about it.
But even then managers weresaying managers don't have time
(45:32):
to create something for scratch.
So the key is the people whoare successful are the ones who
have bootstrapped it and whohave completely done it on their
own, organized on their own andfigured out what works, what
makes them happy.
But then have some businessacumen that says okay, people
like that and we'll pay money orI'll do things.
And in classical music we havethis conundrum because there's
(45:54):
like 1% of the 1% of the 1% whosays this is good and if you
don't do that activity, ifyou've gone to conservatory
study music, then you're nothing.
And I say that's BS.
And it also plays into what Isaid about the music isn't
broken.
I'm not saying that everybodywho's classically trained should
feel that, unless they'replaying Beethoven and Brahms
incredibly convincing, that theyhave failed.
No, that's just to addressmarketing of organizations.
(46:17):
I feel like there needs to bemore classical musicians who
want to just do their own thing,that don't play just
necessarily core repertoire,that can play other stuff that
audiences want to hear.
And then I feel like in thiscountry especially, people are
more and more aware of whatstring instruments are and are
much more accepting of them.
And if they play music that theartists and the musicians are
just having a great time, theywant to be around that.
(46:38):
So I think there's a lot of lowhanging fruit for up and coming
instrumentalists A lot.
Liz (46:43):
Maybe that's one of the positives of the whole social
media world.
Steph (46:48):
Well, I think it's getting back into the culture
not being so removed like this.
Nick (46:53):
Listen to concert hall.
Steph (46:54):
You can only perform it if you're a member of a symphony
orchestra.
But yeah, breaking it down andmaking it so that individual
musicians can create their ownthing will kind of let it by.
As osmosis get into the culture, more and more people will be
exposed.
Nick (47:08):
Play music that works for you and that when you experience
it's not like sometimes I seeit, but then it's a missed
opportunity because they'retrying to get through a bar,
talk, shrink or Ted out in acommunity center when they just
need to play.
Maybe they just play beautifulchords and then share a show
with a singer, songwriter, butthen talk to an arranger friend
(47:29):
of theirs or a young composer towrite something and then share
the cost on the back end and dosomething that everybody feels
feel, feel, feel, feel.
That's the most.
And it's not how many notes youplay, it's the notes that you
play.
That's the joint.
That's the thing.
Steph (47:45):
All the yes.
Nick (47:46):
So good.
Steph (47:48):
So, speaking of the future, what all is coming up
for you, nick?
What's on the music stand?
Nick (47:54):
We have a great season coming up.
The Grammys were a huge thingfor us.
The schedule is crazy.
I'm a little terrified of itbecause of how little I will be
home starting in the new year,but it's all where.
This is the life we chose.
And Marina, my wife, who is thegoat.
She's just so powerful and soamazing and understood what
we're getting into early on.
It's hard.
(48:14):
It's hard, but we're working itout together.
But I couldn't do this withouther for sure.
It's fantastic Love you guys,thanks so much for your time
today.
Liz (48:22):
Thank you so much, Nick.
Nick (48:23):
It's been amazing, absolutely.
Thanks for being so open withus and being willing to.
Well, I appreciate you guyshaving this series and I think
it's a great opportunity tobring in somebody like me who is
out in the world, and if I canbring some perspective and
hopefully enthusiasm, then Itake time for that.
I love that, so I reallyappreciate the invite.
Liz (48:47):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple Podcasts, amazonMusic, spotify or wherever you
listen.
Steph (48:57):
Thanks also to our season sponsor, Potter Violence.
Liz (49:00):
If you'd like to support the podcast and get access to
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including shirts, water bottles,koozies and a variety of other
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Liz (49:14):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP Wogerman and
is performed by Stefan myself.
Steph (49:19):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and edited by
Emily McMahon.
Liz (49:23):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Well, hello Hi.
Oh, my gosh Rusty Rusty overhere.
Liz (00:06):
It's been a minute.
Steph (00:07):
Summer has come and gone and here we are, back in our
little caves.
Liz (00:11):
It does officially feel like fall too in this first
recording we're doing, which islike finally.
Steph (00:17):
I'm so over summertime.
I'm just over the temperature,being humid and gross.
Liz (00:23):
How was your summer?
Steph (00:24):
So we went on a couple of vacations, but I think I need
to tell you about the road tripthat we took.
So during the pandemic, ourfamily watched this show on I
think it was like Nat Geo,called Secrets of the Zoo, so
let me know if you've watchedthis.
But basically it followsdocumentary style the vets and
the zoo techs and all the peoplebehind the scenes of the zoo
(00:47):
that care for the animals, etcetera.
And this particular one that wewatched was about the
Cincinnati Zoo.
So we told the kids, after thepandemic's over, we'll take a
road trip and we'll go to theCincinnati Zoo and we'll check
this out.
I love it, okay.
So finally we blocked off fivedays to go and we drove to
Cincinnati.
We got there, we toured aroundCincinnati.
(01:08):
It's a lovely city, it's reallycute.
There's the Ohio River goesright by it, it's on the water.
We had excellent weather, itwas beautiful.
We did all kinds of really coolthings in Cincinnati, anyway.
So we get back to the hotelthat first night in Cincinnati
and my husband Aaron is lookingat his phone and he's pulled up
(01:28):
images from the TV show and onone of the images is one of the
workers who we I can't rememberher name but who.
We followed as part of the showand he zooms in on her shirt
because she's wearing like alogo shirt that belongs to the
zoo and he calls me over andhe's like take a look at this.
And her shirt said Columbus.
Liz (01:48):
Zoo no, there are too many cities in Ohio that start with
the letter C.
Steph (01:54):
He's like should we tell the kids that we're in the wrong
city?
But I think for our purposesCincinnati was a better choice
as far as the city to visit.
And it was great.
We even asked like serverswe're like which is the better
city?
The consensus was we were inthe better city.
We were in the better city ofCincinnati and the zoo was
excellent.
So it was still great.
(02:15):
We've had a great time, but wedrove eight hours to the wrong
city in Ohio.
Liz (02:21):
I love that so much, it's so great.
What about you?
Well, it was your summer.
It was a strange summer becauseI personally had a lot of
change going on and a lot ofthings to sort of process and
handle and go through and a lotof like moving parts, and so
personally it was a very hardsummer.
(02:43):
I'm not going to lie, as youknow.
But I also got the opportunityto do some really cool things
and I just always forget well,professionally anyway, I always
forget that summertime offersthis opportunity to like educate
in a way that feels so muchmore enriching than during
school year.
So I had the chance to go doone week with a camp in Maryland
(03:08):
.
That was a day camp at a wineryand farm and it was all
outdoors and it was this summercamp for you or for like
children.
Steph (03:16):
I wish it was a summer camp.
Liz (03:18):
But what's amazing about having it there is like the
parents of these kids would justsit and have wine and cheese
and like hang out while the kidsare getting educated.
Steph (03:27):
Sell.
Liz (03:27):
Yes, it was really cool and I got to meet a lot of great
people on the faculty there andcoach chamber music and mostly
just do some master class typestuff, and so that was really
fun and also just a reminder tobe outside.
We didn't have our phones on us, it was hot, it was very sticky
.
I needed a shower pretty muchevery day I was there, but it
(03:48):
was really cool.
And then for the last few yearsI've done something called
Viala Boot Camp, which is like aspinoff of something that was
already created for violin.
I've talked about this before,but it was really funny because
this time we were all at thesame week on the main campus of
George Mason, and so we werelike coming into contact with
Violin Boot Camp at the sametime and it was just so funny to
(04:11):
like watch the difference inpersonality of what was
happening over there.
Steph (04:15):
And then we'd check on them, be like are you guys all
right?
There was a little boot camp.
We know what boot camps likefor violinists, exactly.
How are you doing?
Liz (04:22):
Oh, so that was really fun too, and I played a music
festival, an orchestra festival,in Pennsylvania very rural part
of Pennsylvania for severalyears before the pandemic, and
then it had not happened untilthis year, since 2020.
So it was like a family reunion.
It was just so great to comeback and I played Jurassic Park
and Concert which was like adream.
Steph (04:45):
That sounds like fun.
You know what?
I would much rather play thatone than.
Liz (04:49):
Star Wars?
Oh, 100%, hot take.
Yes, I don't ever want to playa Star Wars or a Harry Potter in
concert, ever again.
Steph (04:56):
I've done both.
It is.
Liz (04:57):
Yeah, they're brutal, they're brutal, it's brutal.
So things like that, a fewvacations, you know.
But, as I mentioned, there'sbeen a lot of change in my
personal life.
So this year is going to be aninteresting year A lot of
discovery, a lot of exploringnew things.
So we'll see.
Steph (05:15):
Welcome to the Musician Centric podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph and I'm Liz.
Liz (05:28):
And we're so glad you joined us.
Let's dive in.
She's talking about theelephant.
Look at you.
Steph (05:39):
Back with the segue she's got it, she's got it.
So if you downloaded thisepisode, you kind of already
know this that we are rebrandingthis podcast used to be known
as the Viola Centric podcast.
We're both violists, but ourconversations have always been
ones that anybody, any type ofmusician, could benefit from.
So we decided it was just timeto rebrand and call ourselves
(06:04):
the Musician Centric podcast,because that's really.
I mean, we're for musicians,our conversations are for
musicians, so we're glad you'rehere.
Liz (06:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was a big decision for usbecause we hatched this idea
together on a porch during thepandemic.
For those of you who don't knowour origin story and the name
Viola Centric came verynaturally to us.
It just kind of like rolled outand we were attached to it.
It's been an interestingexercise in like releasing an
(06:33):
attachment in a way, to bewilling to take the risk to
change things up and see if theycan benefit our mission, which
is really to inspire the peoplewho do the type of work that we
do and share the perspectives ofso many other inspiring
individuals who we just havelearned so much, and the
information we receive, theperspectives we hear and share,
(06:56):
absolutely translate to anyinstrumentalist out there and
even people who are justmusician admirers.
So I think it just broadens thepossibilities and hopefully,
from a perspective of ourmusician friends who maybe have
been reticent to listen becausethey thought it was a Viola
podcast, can listen now and sayoh hey, these Violists are cool
(07:18):
and they're talking aboutsomething I understand.
Steph (07:21):
And you could talk about it Now.
It doesn't have to be a guiltypleasure.
Liz (07:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't have to be like.
I admit that I listen to theViolaCentric podcast!
Such a fact, like I admit that Iwas a big in sync fan in the
early 2000s- but it should alsobe said for our friends that
have been part of our communityfor the last few years, and one
of the reasons that it was veryhard for us to make the decision
to change our name was actuallybecause of the little community
(07:45):
of followers, friends we'vegained over the last few years.
We did not want anyone to feellike we were sort of abandoning
our roots, and so the podcast isgoing to be.
You're going to notice, it'sexactly the same.
We're not doing anythingdifferent in terms of the
content.
We just wanted a name thatwould be a little bit more
inviting to someone who feltlike it wasn't for them.
So we hope you'll stick with usin this transition.
Steph (08:08):
Yeah, so inside the box, same product outside of the box,
that's right, just newpackaging, that's right, you
know when, like how Pepsi doesthat every 10 years or so.
Liz (08:18):
And we will still very proudly feature Violist guests
throughout the season.
So you know, because it stillis an unsung hero of the
orchestra family.
Steph (08:29):
Yeah.
Liz (08:29):
And it deserves its own mention.
Yeah, but just because it's aViolist guest doesn't mean they
don't have something to say forall musicians.
Steph (08:36):
Yeah, so don't like not download those episodes, you
guys.
This isn't licensed todiscriminate.
Liz (08:43):
Yeah, that's right.
Steph (08:45):
So what has changed the name?
Obviously, now we areMusicianCentric, we have a new
Instagram channel atMusicianCentric.
It's actually our old account,just we're going to rename it.
Liz (08:57):
So if you already followed, you don't have to do anything.
You don't have to do anything,yeah.
Steph (09:00):
So same thing with our Facebook page MusicianCentric
and our website MusicianCentric.
com.
If you have us, like,bookmarked as a ViolaCentric,
it'll scoot you on over thereand you can just update your
bookmark.
Liz (09:13):
Yes, we also have some new merch, so that's very exciting
New merch.
Steph (09:17):
This is what we're really excited about.
So we have a new logo, yeah.
Liz (09:21):
We spent a lot of time working with someone very
brilliant on a new logo and somenew art for the podcast, and so
that's very exciting.
So we're going to feature thaton some new merch.
You can still get ViolaCentricmerch if you'd like Vintage
Viola-centric merch.
Steph (09:36):
You know hot sales, New vintage.
Maybe it'll be worth somethingon eBay.
Liz (09:40):
I hope so, but you can find that on.
We're still working with ourgood friend, lisa Divek, who has
Alto Clef gifts, if you've beenfollowing us, but she now has a
website called EnsembleOutfitters, so we'll keep that
information on our website inthe notes, but you can visit her
website Ensemble Outfitters andfind MusicianCentric merch,
(10:01):
which is good.
Steph (10:02):
Another way you can support us is by joining our
Patreon.
We're going to have ad-freeepisodes there, we're going to
have extra bonus content there,and then in the future this
season we'll be doing somethingagain with our Joy Loves Company
group, our community.
So that's where you will getaccess to all of that really fun
and amazing stuff that we dowith that group.
Liz (10:23):
Yeah, we'll release more information about that coming up
, but that group has grown overthe last two years that it's
been in existence and it's beena really big part of our lives
for the last couple of seasons,right.
Steph (10:34):
Yeah, it's a really special, special group, really
special part of what we do.
Liz (10:37):
You can also support us simply by sharing with your
musician friends, whoever youtalk to, about the conversations
you hear already on the podcast.
If you enjoy what you'rehearing right now and this is
your first time tell peopleabout it.
It's so helpful to us to spreadthe word, and our goal is to
really reach as many listenersas we can, particularly with our
(10:58):
new name.
So please share away.
Steph (11:01):
Yes, is there anything else?
Oh, write us a review.
Yeah, if you love this.
Liz (11:05):
Reviews really help us.
They work with the elusivealgorithms.
Steph (11:10):
Yeah, so rate us five stars and write us a review and
help us connect with more peopleand these conversations.
They can be enjoyed by evenmore people with your help and
your support.
So thank you in advance forthat.
Liz (11:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think this is going to be agood year, season four.
Steph (11:27):
I'm excited.
I'm excited.
So our guest today, as you sawin the title, is violinist Nick
Kendall, and if you don't knowthis guy, do a quick Google,
look him up, watch some videos.
He's amazing.
He's a Grammy Award-winningartist with his Time for Three
trio.
He's so charismatic and you'llhear that in our conversation as
(11:49):
he talks about how important itis for him to connect, and he's
definitely one of those peoplethat uses music as a way to
connect to an audience.
Liz (11:58):
Yeah, yeah, I found this conversation to be, so, you know
, glimmery, like it just lit somany things up for me, and he
really has that concept of whatour purpose is, so down and it's
interesting too to think about.
He comes from a prettysignificant pedigree.
His grandfather, John Kendall,was like one of the forefathers
(12:18):
of Suzuki tradition here in theStates, and so it's interesting
to hear him talk about how hecame to his own understanding of
why playing violin was apassion for him in his life and
it did require him sort ofcoming around to like, ok, this
is what I thought everyoneexpected of me, and kind of
rebelling against that andcoming to the conclusion that it
(12:40):
was actually the feeling ofwhat it was like to perform and
what it was like to do thatthing in front of a group of
people.
And he talks about findingtheir audience, and I love that
a lot too.
It really sparked for me thisidea of just internal creative
expression for every individual,and I think the way to create
the most amount of fulfillmentout of this career is to figure
(13:03):
out for each individual, likewhat it is that you would like
to be doing or saying with yourmusic, and in his case, it's the
feeling.
Did you capture that feeling inwhat you were playing?
I loved that so much.
Steph (13:15):
So relatable.
Yeah.
So if you're anything like us,you're going to love this.
But let us know.
Email us, dm us on ourInstagram, message us on
Facebook.
Let us know what you thoughtand enjoy this episode featuring
violinist Nick Kendall.
Liz (13:31):
It's that time of year we're back to school and we are
back to gigging.
Even if you're not mentallyready for the season, you can
count on our season sponsor,Potter Violins, to get your
equipment ready.
When's the last time you'vereared your bow?
Steph (13:45):
stuff.
Oh, I feel like it was recently, but I bet it's been over six
months.
So I got to get over there andget it freshened up.
Oh, and I need new backupstrings and an instrument
adjustments.
Liz (13:58):
Sounds like it might be about time.
Yeah, I do love to get in therefor a visit to our favorite
technicians as we approach thechange of season.
Hmm, maybe I need a new casetoo.
Steph (14:09):
And, as we've said before , if you need a rental
instrument, they're the place togo.
My daughter and many of mystudents rent from Potters and
the instruments are reallyfantastic, even the smaller
violas.
Liz (14:20):
Yes, get back to your music this season with confidence by
visiting Potter Violins.
So your equipment will be ready, even if you might need a bit
more of a warm-up.
Steph (14:34):
Today we are joined by violinist Nick Kendall.
Described as a poster child fora new breed of super musicians
by the Washington Post, he isliterally foraging his own path,
making his career, performingaround the world as a soloist
and with his GrammyAward-winning trio Time for
Three.
But that's just the tip of theiceberg.
(14:54):
Amplomatic of Nick's diverseartistic expressions are special
projects that include composingthe soundtrack for the feature
film Land, releasing the GrammyAward-winning album Letters for
the Future with Time for Threeand performing with various
recording artists.
Nick is also an artist inresidence at Lincoln Center in
New York City and he's veryinvolved in educational programs
(15:16):
as well, and, honestly, this isa comically abridged version.
Nick (15:20):
Could have y'all have done that before I got on?
I mean jeez.
Liz (15:24):
No, no this is the best part.
We like to make every guestreally uncomfortable with it.
Yes, when put on you guys 100%success rate.
Nick (15:31):
Thank you so, Nick welcome .
Steph (15:33):
Welcome to the Musician-centric podcast.
We are so excited to have you.
This is the first episode ofour new season and we're just
super thrilled that you're here.
Nick (15:42):
Absolutely.
Steph (15:43):
So we were talking before we started recording that
you're here in DC, yeah, and wewere also talking about how
people are annoyed if you sayyou're from DC and you're not
actually living there.
Nick (15:53):
I actually now live in DC, but when I grew up here, I was
living in Maryland.
I was living in.
Liz (15:58):
Silver Spring I had a family in Tacoma Park.
Nick (16:01):
So actually I grew up in the area in Maryland, in
Montgomery County.
Steph (16:06):
Montgomery County.
I grew up in Gaithersburg.
Nick (16:08):
There you go.
Yes, love it that.
Steph (16:10):
So we've played together.
I've played in orchestras whereyou're soloing by yourself and
with Time For Three, so italways feels like kind of a
homecoming whenever you're inthe area.
Nick (16:20):
Th at's it.
It's so cool to have you here,thank you.
Steph (16:22):
But of course, as a graduate of Curtis, we feel like
you probably could have starteda career as a soloist just
right from there, but you didn'tchoose to do that.
Yeah, so tell us about theformation of Time For Three and
how that came about and kind oflike how you decided that maybe
a full-on solo career wasn'treally for you.
Nick (16:43):
I get this question a lot and it makes sense because, yeah
, you're right, it's a huge deal, like it was an enormous game
changer for me to get intoCurtis and obviously at that
point I was thinking of just thesolo track, right, and I was
with this incredibly famousteacher and of course at Curtis
you sort of share teachers, atleast very much.
That was the case back when Iwas going to school and I got in
(17:04):
in 1997.
I'm aging myself but I was sofocused on just my instrument
and playing the great repertoirewhich I still love.
I definitely feel like all ofthose masterworks and all those
composers which I really had tostudy and practice and really
get to know shaped me as aperson but also as an artist,
(17:25):
and probably a lot of the workthat, when in pre-Curtis, was
also part of what, even if Iwasn't realizing the focus that
I had and my parents made me andmy teachers made me practice I
hated practicing when I wasyoung Were part of the
substantive core of who I havebecome, the freedom that I have
from that discipline and, yeah,I think when I was growing up
(17:46):
here I was also really intoother styles of music and so I
brought all that desire toconnect with people outside of
like core classical music when Iwent to Curtis and Philadelphia
has a super rich musical scene,the Philly Sound, which
includes obviously thePhiladelphia Orchestra but it
also R&B, soul and jazzobviously some of the most
(18:09):
famous jazz clubs and I wasreally attracted to that
community while I was at Curtisand so kind of my activities in
high school, playing in folkbands and I actually played in a
bucket band here in Georgetownbefore they had sound ordinance
laws.
Oh my gosh.
Like kind of like stomp Back.
When stomp was starting, myfriends, my high school friends
(18:30):
and I were playing like trashcan buckets upside down and
paint buckets when we set up andplay beats, hip hop beats and
go-go beats here in DC.
And so all of that fed intocoming to Curtis and starting my
own bands outside of playingBrahms and Beethoven and Mahler.
And then, like my second yearat Curtis, there were two other
students Actually it was morethan that, it was like three or
(18:52):
four who used improvisation as away to kind of like connect
with each other.
And you have to understand, theculture at Curtis is very small
, it's a very small student body.
But only a couple of decadesbefore that, jazz music was
forbidden to be played at Curtis.
So you can understand thementality when late 90s, early
(19:13):
2000s, the idea that classicalmusicians, especially at Curtis
improvising have jam sessionswas like whoa big deal, and
that's what we did.
I found two other guys like minedid.
That was the founding membersof Time for Three Back Then Zach
DePue, who's no longer in theband, and Renan Meyer, and we
were obviously not thinking ofinstrumentation at all, because
it's two violins and double bass, but we were literally just
(19:34):
connecting and we were usingmusic that we just usually these
jam sessions usually happendirectly after orchestral
rehearsals and back then we hadthe great maestro, who I miss
dearly.
He taught me so much and somany of us from that generation
miss his presence OttoWiener-Mueller, who was so
strict and so old school but soawesome and made us concentrate.
(19:57):
I remember when I was firstjoining the orchestra, I hated
it because I just wanted to play.
I just wanted to play, but no,he was so strict and so we
needed to do something.
That was the antithesis of thatenergy, which was, after
everybody left Curtis Hall, weturned down the lights for vibes
.
It had a dimmer switch and wehad just so very intimate space
and we just jammed.
That's awesome.
Steph (20:17):
That's amazing because it really feels like we've talked
about this before, liz howimprovisation was like a big
thing back in the day of writingyour own concertos and all that
.
And classical music got awayfrom improvisation and it just
seems like this is just anatural coming back together of
the way that you are.
Nick (20:36):
It's so cool in my career now we're so lucky to be engaged
by better and better, morefamous orchestras right, but
even not the top orchestras butthe more I'm, first of all, I'm
recognizing people in theorchestra, but it isn't so
incredible anymore that the useof improvisation or the use of
kind of extended technique issort of like a norm now.
(20:58):
And when we were actually justlast week, we were in Gettysburg
playing a show, our first showof the season, and we did a
whole outreach with theGettysburg College, the famous
composer, avner Dormann, who hasdone a lot here in this
community, and with Eschenbachwhen he was music director of
National Symphony.
He's a professor there and it'sso cool that the student body
like improvisation is part ofthe classical conservatory's
(21:20):
language and it's not such a bigdeal and that's awesome.
We always ask people raise yourhands.
Who's a little bit afraid ofimprovisation?
And we get people lookingaround the room going like, well
, not, I know, but that's nothappening anymore.
People are like, yeah, that'scool.
Yeah, what key, let's go.
Liz (21:38):
Just so cool.
Well, it's so fascinatingbecause I think a lot of times
the origin of this conversationfor us starts with OK,
improvisation was just such ahuge part of the tradition and
then became this let's emulatethe masters.
And so we were taught for acertain generation or two or
three that we had to playeverything a certain way, and it
(21:59):
created this kind of box for usthat I think we didn't
necessarily know that we werebeing placed in that box.
Nick (22:08):
Exactly.
Liz (22:08):
Until you feel this restlessness, like for you,
you're like okay, my orchestraltraining is amazing and all of
us who had that experience arelike yeah.
I loved, loved my orchestraltraining in college.
But there is this feeling oflike don't do that, don't do
that.
Duh, duh, duh, duh.
You're like letting yourselfout of the box you had to.
Nick (22:26):
You like felt this need to do it yeah.
Liz (22:28):
Yeah, and I think that's maybe what's happening on a
whole Is that musicians of anytradition are saying wait a
second, I don't want to justhave to do this thing, I want to
learn how to improvise, I wantto be a little bit more free
with my music and composers now,or I don't know, maybe working
with that a little bit.
So like classical musician iskind of blending with other
(22:49):
things too, which any of thatnew music today is very bold,
completely, yeah, I mean it'ssuch a.
Nick (22:55):
It's actually an incredibly disruptive time, but
it's a very exciting time if oneis taking the long view.
We are in a time when how wecommunicate with each other is
we're really aware of it.
There's so many conflicts inthe world and we feel divided,
but yet we feel like somebodyelse is telling us we're divided
but yet we're really connected.
And what does that mean?
(23:17):
And what does that mean toconnect person to person or
using our phones and completelyseeing society just wrapped up
in a screen and the internet?
So all of these things are, Ifeel, helping a lot of really
important conversations to behad that maybe wouldn't have had
and which is making peoplereally question their activities
(23:40):
and I don't think this is onlyin our space and music.
I think this is all across theboard and so long as AI doesn't
take over and become self-awareand start killing everybody
which is scary and it's acompletely off topic, but you
know what I'm saying.
If we continue asking thesequestions and understanding what
(24:00):
rules mean or what traditionmeans.
And it doesn't have to bebinding, but it can be a guide
to navigate a point ofdestination on the horizon,
which sometimes is a greatconstraint, which otherwise
you're just kind of blindly inthe thing, doing the thing.
And just what does it all mean?
And that's definitely been awonderful ingredient for our
(24:20):
industry.
This questioning and thisalmost turnaround and I also
want to say improvisation I feellike it's also changing from
being like just a thing to beinga tool, just like vibrato is or
low speed is.
Improvisation is literally a wayof listening.
It's your technique, followingyour musicality, rather than a
lot of times in classical musicit ends with your technique,
(24:42):
because you're trying to beperfect but then you're not
actually listening and adjusting.
So it's interpretation as well.
I think improvisation meansinterpretation, which is
exciting thing.
It's an exciting thing, that'sawesome.
Steph (24:57):
I always admired you and other people who, like yo-yo-mah
, just seems like the techniqueis no limitation at all and it
just allows your improvisationto be a direct line from your
brain to what comes out of yourinstrument.
Whereas I think a lot of people, me included I feel like
sometimes my technique is likethat limiting factor.
I kind of know what I wouldwant.
(25:17):
But then it's like but how do Imake that?
Nick (25:19):
happen.
Steph (25:19):
I wonder if a lot of us classical musicians probably
feel inhibited in that way.
Nick (25:23):
If you know how to communicate with another person
and you're able to have areciprocal energy, meaning that
if there's an understanding andyou're kind of going down a path
of communication right, thatdoesn't necessarily mean
language, it can mean a feel, avibe in a relationship or
whatever.
Back to classical musicians orclassically trained musicians
(25:44):
you are absolutely capable ofharnessing that vibe.
You just have to practice it.
It's really as simple as that.
You have to put yourself incircumstances that make you flex
around what you're feeling, andyou could probably make up
exercises yourself and it'sgoing to be uncomfortable at
first, but so is like learning anew language.
But you take small steps and,especially if you've been in the
(26:04):
world for a while at our age,you sort of self-learn and apply
those feelings because it'sthat X factor you can't describe
and you apply those to otherthings in the music making
process and we do that a lot.
We have these jam sessions likeimprov sessions, but I also
have exercises that kind offorce you to behave with it when
you're with your instrument,force you to behave in a certain
(26:26):
way that you have to completelylock into your feelings and
your impulses, and the processkind of helps break down a lot
of walls and a lot of times youget out of these exercises and
people feel like, wow, I didn'trealize I could do that.
I didn't realize I could feelthis way while playing the
instrument, and that's cool.
Steph (26:45):
That's such.
The key, isn't it?
It's tapping into what's realwithin your feeling and not what
someone's expecting.
Nick (26:52):
You know, I'll have one story to that because it applies
to this area.
So I did the National SymphonyYoung Artist Competition, when
you get to play a piece with theNational Symphony on stage.
So I did that when I was inhigh school and I somehow got in
and I was scared.
So I practiced a lot more,which was great, and I ended up
winning Okay, but that's notwhat hooked me.
(27:13):
What hooked me to finally theviolin being not something that
my grandfather or my parentswanted me to do and said that I
have something special, but Iwant to be on the basketball
team and I want to go play outon the streets.
To me, feeling the power was Ihad practiced so much and this
was Lalo Sinfini, espanol, and Iplayed in the concert hall with
my teacher's sister, veraDenchenko, who's still in this
(27:36):
area.
She is an amazing pianist andartist and so she was
accompanying me, she was playingthe orchestral part and I just
remember, literally during theperformance you know that scene
in the first matrix where at theend, all physical things become
digital and you just sort ofsee the way forward.
I was so zoned in to the pieceand putting my heart on the line
.
After I played, I came offstage and I felt this exhaustion
(27:57):
, but not physical exhaustion.
I had just laid out my heart onthat stage, like I had just
done a thing, and that feelingwas like dude, I want that all
the time.
And so for me it was just aboutlike man, that's a simple
formula, work harder, and it wasalso I figured out the goal.
So practicing wasn't this blindforward motion.
(28:20):
It was like okay, if I know mystuff, then when I get to the
thing and I'm the pressure'shigh, I can just go for it.
So, going to how one feels,that was the game changer for me
of owning it.
Liz (28:32):
Yeah, it just makes so much sense.
It probably has to do withinternal motivation, depending
on who you are, but it resonatesvery deeply with me because if
you think about the preparationfor something and usually for me
it's ensemble-based I have aquartet and so I do a lot of
chamber music and when somethingis really hard in my part, I'm
not that concerned for myself.
(28:53):
I want to do it right for them,but at the same time, when I'm
able to play something reallychallenging and we're all doing
it together and I did itsuccessfully with them the
feeling is the thing that makesit so much better.
Nick (29:08):
It's what makes it worth it, it's not that we oh wow, we
lined up perfectly.
It was like we said a thingyeah, we said a thing exactly.
Liz (29:15):
It's really good and it's a nice reframe, I think,
especially for a youngermusician who's in the mode of
just trying to play things rightTotally.
Yeah, just like I got to geteverything right.
Well, what's the goal ofgetting it right?
Steph (29:27):
Well, so short of a National Symphony concerto
competition, what would motivateyour average student to get in
that place and have thatepiphany moment?
Nick (29:36):
Well, my whole thing with young kids and I incorporate
this into anything I'm doingwhere I have the honor of having
kids listening to me isobviously I'm going to be doing
my thing, I'm playing, and whenI play, I just naturally am.
So I'm doing my thing.
So the kids are already likewhoa, that looks like a lot of
fun, that looks awesome.
And then I have the opportunityto say listen, I got here not
(30:00):
just by like watching a YouTubevideo.
This did not come in a TikTokformat.
This is literally a process,but always understanding and
being in touch with the factthat I loved it.
But the love part if I had 100%of the pie, the love part was
maybe 6% of it.
The rest of it, the 94%, wasapplying my practice time to the
(30:22):
stuff that didn't come easy,stuff.
To answer your question, it wasthat duality of you master good
intonation, good bow speed,good posture, and then, after
you master that, then I'm goingto unleash you and, oh boy, that
was a goal for me.
Liz (30:37):
It's like the discipline element of it.
That's a challenging thing toteach to kids but I think that
that process of making it funeven in the discipline area that
part of it is the thing I thinkI've really tried to implement
my own teaching in the last fewyears is just like I get it.
But this is a problem thatneeds to be solved.
So let's figure out how tosolve the problem and then you
(30:59):
just work to find the solution.
Nick (31:02):
I feel like teachers are so underappreciated and the
nurturers of the world andmothers are so underappreciated.
I have so much respect forteachers now and I look at my
sister, who's an incredibleteacher.
She's amazing.
Yumi Kendall, shout out rightnow, snap, snap, snap.
And shout out Yumi, go checkout her podcast with her and I'm
just dropping all the things.
Go check out, that's right, gocheck out with Joe Conyers.
(31:26):
Hey, a rising tide, Teachers Ican't you guys have like,
teachers out there have such atough time right now because
kids are seeing what's cool outthere, but what's cool can take
two seconds, but there's nolongevity to that and teachers
and parents have this task.
But that's, I mean, that's alsoa good challenge to figure out
(31:46):
how to counter that withnurturing, which means that
working on the stuff that isn'tcool, that is boring.
But my God, if you don't do it,you're not going to be great,
and great meaning reach yourfull potential and have this
freedom to do what you want onyour own terms in the future.
If anytime I have a chance,teachers in the area, through
this wonderful opportunity tospeak to you guys, just
(32:08):
understand that it's soimportant what that community is
doing and it's so hard.
It's so hard, but don't give up, please.
Steph (32:16):
We need it.
Well, you know, I really dofeel like as a teacher myself
and as a mom, that thisgeneration and I don't want to
talk trash on this generation atall, because we all have
challenges and tendencies orwhatever from when we grew up
but it's a very short attentionspan Generation and I think that
it may take time, but I thinkthat these kids are going to
(32:37):
realize that, okay, I'm notgoing to have longevity or
acquire any long-term skills by30 seconds of investment of my
time and I think it's going tocome back around to people
realizing that that's not theway to build a skill, like
you're not going to learn how toplay the violin or the piano
from a 90 second TikTok video,but it might take a little while
(32:58):
, but I think it's going to haveto come around.
What are we going to keep doing?
Shortening these TikTok?
videos and now.
Your attention span is fiveseconds.
The limit is five seconds.
Liz (33:06):
You know what I mean.
I'd stuff your comment aboutattention span.
It's so interesting because I'mwitnessing something.
I have a very small studio,that's awesome though I'm
witnessing something reallyinteresting with my kids where
at the end of last year we haddone one of those 100-day
practice challenges, you knowAwesome.
And so we'd built up and wedidn't actually do a recital, we
just did this class together,group gathering and whoever
(33:26):
wanted to play could play.
It was really low-key and it wasso fascinating because even my
youngest kids at the end of thatwere really able to formulate
opinions about the challengesthey had practiced.
They were making progress.
It was like really tangible.
And then we started this yearand this year we've talked about
this stuff.
I've been having our ownchallenges with getting things
off the ground and it just beena weird fall.
(33:46):
There's this cultural societalcultural frenzy right now, and
those same kids are incapable,right now, of giving me the same
amount of focus that they weregiving me.
Nick (33:57):
six months ago.
Liz (33:58):
And I'm working at it.
It's my job now to redirect.
It's my job now to be like okay, I get it, there's a zillion
things pulling your attentionright now.
If you want to get this goalaccomplished, you have to do
this work.
But there's a lot workingagainst us and there's a lot
working against the kids, Ithink, in terms of this
90-second sound bite, theirbrains are being wired to feel
(34:22):
like that's how life is.
That's what's happening to themwhen you're successful, they
are able to reposition the waythey feel about these things and
they're able to give theirattention and they're able to
give their focus.
And some of these kids that aregraduating now have really
great vision for what they wantthe world to look like and if
we're able to be, a part of that.
Steph (34:41):
That's amazing and our industry Liz and I do a lot of
orchestral work and we're seeinga lot of the organizations that
we're working with reallystruggling right now.
Nick (34:52):
Oh yeah.
Steph (34:52):
Do you see that in your line of going around the country
?
Nick (34:54):
No, we actually we had some bad news just coming into
the season where we had a datewith the New Jersey Symphony
playing our new concerto thatwas composed for us by Ken Butts
, which we love, and oh, yeah,yeah, totally.
But Shian, who is the grandmaestro who actually recorded
with us with the PhiladelphiaOrchestra she's the music
director of New Jersey Symphonyand they had to lay off 15% of
(35:18):
their staff not orchestra, thankGod, but the staff and then
they had to cut like threeclassical weeks, and one of
those weeks was ours.
You know, we have strugglesright now happening between
management and orchestra, theunions the tale of the pandemic
is still there and alsoaddressing some of these other
concerns you know, like howorchestras promote themselves
(35:38):
and the meaning of a symphonyorchestra within a community.
It's all these things are stillhappening and, yeah, it is
unfortunately prevalent around.
Steph (35:46):
So what part does programming and all that play
into making sure that peoplewant to come to orchestra
concerts?
Nick (35:54):
Yeah, tough, I there's a lot to talk about.
I mean, yeah, first of all.
First of all, in my opinion,the music is not broken.
The delivery systems often are,for me, the ones to first
address.
Liz (36:11):
And like.
Nick (36:13):
I don't think Beethoven symphony is broken.
I don't think you need to be.
I mean, maybe I'm an idiot, butI don't think you need to be
educated in classical music tototally be moved by Beethoven
Symphony If it's in the hands ofartists who take the time and
care and love to communicatethat energy.
(36:35):
And so I think that's for me,that's the answer to that,
because you can program coolermusic.
You can bring time for three,all you want, but that's just
really awesome icing but it's alot of icing and you don't get
good cake that sucks, you get astomach ache.
You know what I'm saying?
It has to be the love and thecraft have to be.
(36:56):
When that's there, then peoplefeel the music.
And what happens when peoplefeel the music?
They want more of that feelingand they'll come to find that
moment of when, that X factorthat happens between humans,
indoor, outdoor, wherever.
I mean it's a magical thing,but it can only happen if it's a
(37:17):
truly reciprocal conversation,meaning that everybody shows up
because they want to be there todo the thing.
Do the thing is our thing, isour word.
Today.
Liz (37:26):
And it's not like, yeah, I mean you can program some light
music.
Nick (37:30):
If we're talking orchestra music, you can program
amplified music all you want,but people will get tired of
that, and you also.
You just don't detect thegravitas.
So this, what I'm saying,obviously is complex.
It's a very complex issue andtopic because the way our
industry, the way theprofessional classical music
world is set up, and the way ithas been for years and years,
(37:54):
there is a format and there is arespected way of doing things,
and it's not a quick and easyfix.
It too will have to go througha pendulum swing.
Liz (38:03):
I just want to circle back to you saying delivery system,
because I don't think we'veheard it referred to this way,
but the concept that the musicitself is worse.
Anyone's investment 100%.
Nick (38:15):
A million percent.
Liz (38:16):
But the delivery system is so multifaceted.
As soon as you said that, I waslike ping, ping, this, this,
this.
There's so many differentelements to that, but I think
and I'll kind of go there, I'llgo there a little bit.
Go there Because we freelanceand we play an orchestra.
You alluded a little bit to theinvestment of the musicians on
stage and I would imagine I meanwe have this experience In fact
I think we've talked about thison other episodes where in some
(38:38):
groups, everyone is engaged andinvested and there are
situations and circumstancesthat have been created in order
for those musicians to feel thatway.
Nick (38:47):
Exactly.
Liz (38:48):
And then there are groups where the musicians do not have
that engagement.
Exactly, and when they don't100%, they are just pulling up,
parking the car, walking ingetting their instrument out
playing the job.
Absolutely and they don'tnecessarily even think about the
100, 200, 500 people sitting inthe audience.
Yes, that is a massive problem.
Nick (39:07):
They have a million things going on in society, in our
culture.
This is a job, this is a way oflife, when people are pulling
up and doing their job andtrying but then they have to go
up 95 to another one and then gohome and teach a studio and
then raise five kids.
That's the way that theyunderstood the market was and is
(39:28):
and they're able to supportthemselves that way.
So there's no shade on thecurrent, the individuals in this
situation.
It's everything that is set upand propped up to support that.
My sister and I talk about thisall the time.
It's the pipeline, it's aculture, but it's not.
I believe you just can't fixthe problem by just looking at
(39:49):
the current situation andblaming the people who show up
and look exhausted and thensaying you guys are the problems
.
No, it's not only that, it'sthe whole thing.
But we as a culture, we as acommunity, and the business has
to understand that and has tolook at that and has to address
it.
And it's again, it's not easy,but there are ways of addressing
that through a lot of questionsand dialogue.
(40:11):
But yes, that is.
I didn't want to say it, butyeah, that's what it is.
Liz (40:15):
Well, I think any freelancer and that's what we do
, that's the majority of people,I think, that listen to us are
freelancers, and so we're all inthat same boat together and we
know what it feels like to justbe at a job.
That's a job and that is achallenging thing as a musician
because what is the goal ofbeing a musician?
It's not to just sit down andbe thinking in your head the
(40:39):
whole time like I wish this wasover.
Steph (40:42):
None of us are doing this to get rich.
No, we would have a nine tofive job, I don't know, banking
or doing something else.
That was definitely steady, itwas definitely predictable.
But we do this because we havethat.
Why we were chasing thatfeeling that you're talking
(41:02):
about Nick, where you feel thatfeeling of this is why.
This is why and I have to havethat feeling again.
So I'm going to do it again.
But it's really hard to getbogged down day to day.
Nick (41:13):
No, we so my band.
We're always talking about ourcareer trajectory and it's very
complex because you can't reallypin us in one area.
It was a huge honor to be ableto receive the accolades that we
did for this body of work thatwe just put out.
Steph (41:27):
You mean the Grammy?
Nick (41:27):
Yes, and it was huge because for a group like us that
is so hard to define and out ofthe box and weird, and you
definitely cannot understand itthrough the internet.
You have to be there and bethere yeah.
But the Grammys have and to beable to do it.
And for the album, which was acombination of Jennifer Higdon
and Kevin Putz both pull asurprise, winning, so that's a
(41:49):
name people know.
And then with the PhiladelphiaOrchestra, my God.
And then with one of the mostold, old and respected and
culture shaping record labels ofall time, Deutsche Grammophone,
the Axis Point really made for.
And then the Grammys on top ofthat really defined who we are.
So that's been huge for usbeing associated as like artists
(42:09):
who are damn serious about ourcraft but we work hard to have a
lot of fun doing it.
And what does that mean in ourspace?
And so playing the orchestralmarket has been so wonderful
because we love the experience.
We know the onstage chemistryand just the chamber music thing
and like all that vibe.
We know it so well.
But we also are striving toreach our audiences.
(42:32):
A lot of times in our worldpeople are coming because of
subscription.
I mean now more they're comingbecause of us.
But you know, our solo showshave been going so well, and
that's without having to bebooked with an orchestra.
That's just us and our audience.
And so we're trying to figurethat out too.
How do we get to our people?
And we're also still in theprocess of defining what our
market is.
(42:52):
And it's amazing, after CharlesYang joined we really took the
time.
Eight years ago now, we reallytook the time to figure out who
we are, and so we're a goodstart on a journey, but still
trying to figure it out, that'sawesome.
Steph (43:04):
That's what we're all doing as freelancers, especially
right now, is figuring out whatthe future of our industry is
going to look like.
It's unfortunate, but there's alot of orchestras that are not
around anymore especially ourregional orchestras, and that's
real sad.
It's forcing us all to kind ofexamine where is my career going
(43:25):
to go in the future?
What does my 10 years look like?
It's just a really challengingtime to find out where you fit
in, where you will be.
Nick (43:33):
But it's awesome to hear you both of you speak about your
intentionality in the musicbeing still the flag post in
your life, like how you want toexist.
If, like you, didn't have that,it almost sounds like life
would be just almost meaningless.
I mean, it's so important.
So it's really great thatpeople are still like
professionals like yourself,still a restless and not
comfortable, and I think that'sreally important.
(43:55):
And I also say that that's theingredient to creating your own
thing that is successful.
And in our world, success isbeing able to live in this world
, which means you got to be ableto have some sort of income.
But if you're a restless artist, you've been in the industry,
you feel like there's more.
You just haven't untapped it.
That's awesome and that'sunfortunately it's rare.
But when you have it, I thinkmore and more people are feeling
(44:17):
that now, but that's great.
So keep going at that.
Liz (44:20):
It might be out of necessity, right.
Nick (44:21):
Yeah.
Liz (44:22):
I mean for us to have these conversations out loud.
It took having all of our worktaken away in order to do that
and have all the space to evenjust consider, like, the whys of
what we're still doing.
And I think for many of us it'screated a sense of agency that
we didn't have before, but we'restill certainly in the minority
.
I think most musicians who haveto carve out this, living in
(44:43):
the orchestral realmparticularly I have a lot of
limiting beliefs around what isavailable to them.
There's that whole scarcitything and what's interesting is
to consider the idea that it'sthe only field where we just put
it in the hands of someone elseto hire us.
Every other musician out thereis just trying to create
something with their own voice.
Nick (45:04):
Amen.
Liz (45:04):
Either with a band or on their own, with their own
singing and songwriting orwhatever.
Nick (45:08):
This is part of the culture I was talking about at
Music Institutions, like when Iwas at school.
The kind of thing was, if youget management, you're set.
And that was before theinternet.
I went to Curtis like 97 to2001.
So it's like the internet wasnot where it is now the
accessibility to making your ownmarketing stuff, and that was
not forget about it.
But even then managers weresaying managers don't have time
(45:32):
to create something for scratch.
So the key is the people whoare successful are the ones who
have bootstrapped it and whohave completely done it on their
own, organized on their own andfigured out what works, what
makes them happy.
But then have some businessacumen that says okay, people
like that and we'll pay money orI'll do things.
And in classical music we havethis conundrum because there's
(45:54):
like 1% of the 1% of the 1% whosays this is good and if you
don't do that activity, ifyou've gone to conservatory
study music, then you're nothing.
And I say that's BS.
And it also plays into what Isaid about the music isn't
broken.
I'm not saying that everybodywho's classically trained should
feel that, unless they'replaying Beethoven and Brahms
incredibly convincing, that theyhave failed.
No, that's just to addressmarketing of organizations.
(46:17):
I feel like there needs to bemore classical musicians who
want to just do their own thing,that don't play just
necessarily core repertoire,that can play other stuff that
audiences want to hear.
And then I feel like in thiscountry especially, people are
more and more aware of whatstring instruments are and are
much more accepting of them.
And if they play music that theartists and the musicians are
just having a great time, theywant to be around that.
(46:38):
So I think there's a lot of lowhanging fruit for up and coming
instrumentalists A lot.
Liz (46:43):
Maybe that's one of the positives of the whole social
media world.
Steph (46:48):
Well, I think it's getting back into the culture
not being so removed like this.
Nick (46:53):
Listen to concert hall.
Steph (46:54):
You can only perform it if you're a member of a symphony
orchestra.
But yeah, breaking it down andmaking it so that individual
musicians can create their ownthing will kind of let it by.
As osmosis get into the culture, more and more people will be
exposed.
Nick (47:08):
Play music that works for you and that when you experience
it's not like sometimes I seeit, but then it's a missed
opportunity because they'retrying to get through a bar,
talk, shrink or Ted out in acommunity center when they just
need to play.
Maybe they just play beautifulchords and then share a show
with a singer, songwriter, butthen talk to an arranger friend
(47:29):
of theirs or a young composer towrite something and then share
the cost on the back end and dosomething that everybody feels
feel, feel, feel, feel.
That's the most.
And it's not how many notes youplay, it's the notes that you
play.
That's the joint.
That's the thing.
Steph (47:45):
All the yes.
Nick (47:46):
So good.
Steph (47:48):
So, speaking of the future, what all is coming up
for you, nick?
What's on the music stand?
Nick (47:54):
We have a great season coming up.
The Grammys were a huge thingfor us.
The schedule is crazy.
I'm a little terrified of itbecause of how little I will be
home starting in the new year,but it's all where.
This is the life we chose.
And Marina, my wife, who is thegoat.
She's just so powerful and soamazing and understood what
we're getting into early on.
It's hard.
(48:14):
It's hard, but we're working itout together.
But I couldn't do this withouther for sure.
It's fantastic Love you guys,thanks so much for your time
today.
Liz (48:22):
Thank you so much, Nick.
Nick (48:23):
It's been amazing, absolutely.
Thanks for being so open withus and being willing to.
Well, I appreciate you guyshaving this series and I think
it's a great opportunity tobring in somebody like me who is
out in the world, and if I canbring some perspective and
hopefully enthusiasm, then Itake time for that.
I love that, so I reallyappreciate the invite.
Liz (48:47):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple Podcasts, amazonMusic, spotify or wherever you
listen.
Steph (48:57):
Thanks also to our season sponsor, Potter Violence.
Liz (49:00):
If you'd like to support the podcast and get access to
bonus content, consider joiningour Patreon community.
Steph (49:06):
You can buy all your Musician-centric merch,
including shirts, water bottles,koozies and a variety of other
fun items.
Liz (49:14):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP Wogerman and
is performed by Stefan myself.
Steph (49:19):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and edited by
Emily McMahon.
Liz (49:23):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
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