December 18, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of the New Ashla Podcast, Justin Gates and Michael Perry explore the theme of spiritual disconnection and the journey back to reconnection. They discuss the common feelings of numbness and exhaustion that many experience in their spiritual lives, emphasizing the importance of truth and presence in overcoming these challenges. The conversation delves into the barriers of cynicism, comparison, and rigid expectations that hinder spiritual growth, while offering practical pathways to reconnect with oneself and the divine. Ultimately, the hosts encourage listeners to embrace the unknown and allow their spiritual journey to unfold naturally, without the pressure of fixed beliefs or expectations.
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Takeaways
Many people feel spiritually disconnected due to life's pressures.
Shame often prevents individuals from seeking help or admitting their struggles.
Reconnection begins with honesty and self-acceptance.
Rigid beliefs about spirituality can hinder personal growth.
Presence and mindfulness are essential for spiritual reconnection.
Cynicism and comparison can block spiritual progress.
Truth is a vital component in the journey back to connection.
Nature can be a powerful tool for reconnecting with oneself.
Allowing oneself to feel emotions is crucial for healing.
Spiritual connection is not about belief, but about experience.
Keywords
spiritual connection, disconnection, truth, presence, mindfulness, healing, personal growth, spirituality, self-awareness, emotional health
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Have you ever wondered if you lost your spiritual connection
or if life just made it too painful to feel?
That's what we're going to be talking about today.
You're listening to the new actual podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the new actual podcast.
(00:21):
My name is Justin Gates, and joining me today, as always, is
my my Dos Amigo. We're the two amigos, I think.
Michael Perry. Hey fam.
Not the three amigos we got to get us in another amigo.
So today's show is about spiritual connection and finding
that a pathway back to reconnection.
(00:43):
And this is where a lot of people find themselves, would
you say? Yeah.
And it's a really quiet, drama, drama free thing for most of us
because it just happens over time.
And these people aren't angry atGod or angry at the light or
angry at the universe. And they're not necessarily just
rejecting belief, right? They're just kind of numb and
distant, or maybe disconnected in a way that feels really
(01:05):
confusing and heavy. Well, and sadly, I think most
people are in this fear. You know, you look around and
everyone's so stuck in the hustle and the daily grind and
the monotony of it all and just routine, which I'm not routines,
not a bad thing. But when you're not building
with your life, when you're not connecting in life, you get
(01:26):
trapped in that hole. Go to work, come home, watch TV
type prison that just slowly, like you said, makes you numb.
I mean, I've been guilty of it. I know more people than not who
have been there, and yeah, it's just this almost spiritual
exhaustion that happens over time.
(01:48):
Yeah, yeah. And and of course, there are
those of us who kind of interpret that as a failure, a
failure of faith, the failure ofsome kind of moral flaw.
But it's not. It's a very real human response.
It's tough being a human being. So we have all these things we
have to worry about. Most of it we let happen on
autopilot, which is sometimes gets us in trouble, right.
(02:11):
But I'd, I'd say for most people, it's kind of feeling of
sense. This feeling or sense of
separation doesn't come from notbelieving.
It comes from life burnout, unanswered prayers or prolonged
stress. Because we have, we, we deal
with a lot of, we deal with a lot of subconscious memory.
(02:32):
And that comes from these experiences that taught us.
And we talk about this all the time because it's important.
But these memories that the nervous system holds and it
tells us that openness leads to pain or betrayal or whatever.
Right. Yeah.
Well, I think for a lot of people, even one, one thing the
few times I've been in this situation is I'm stuck.
(02:54):
You're stuck. They're stuck in a situation
that is perpetuating this type of numbness to survive, whether
that's an interpersonal relationship or that job that's
just destroying their soul. Or, or keeping the person from
being mindful of their soul and their responsibilities to it.
Yeah. Because we get, we get
(03:14):
overloaded, overwhelmed. And this could come in the form
of, you know, prayers, feeling empty.
You're just kind of going through the motions.
Same with meditation. Meditation almost feels forced.
I've been there. I've been there before.
And it could, it could make you feel like, why spirituality can
feel distant even when the desire for it is still alive.
(03:34):
You still want it. You still, you know, understand
you need it, But there's just some disconnection there.
Yeah. And and I, and I and I have to
imagine that it's because we getourselves into a point where we
start pitting the mind against the heart, the heart against the
the soul, soul against the emotions and we just really fall
(03:57):
out of alignment. And then we would totally
disconnect while still going through the motions.
We still performing right Well. We get into that dissonance,
right? It's it's we know better, but
instead we justify it. And so it just creates this
mental divide where it's easier to not think about the
consequences of your lifestyle than it is to face the reality
(04:20):
of your situation. Yeah.
And this creates a lot of shame in people, especially if they
come out of them. They come from, you know, very
religious families or very spiritual families.
And it's not something that theywill admit or try to get help
from because they'll feel like they're being judged or they're
like, and they feel that shame where, you know, you're sitting
in stillness and feeling nothingreally.
(04:42):
Why that connection with God or with the universe or with light
or whatever used to feel alive. It used to feel exciting.
Now it feels kind of like nothing like void and then and
then you start to then you startto compare yourself to the
people who seem to have it all together, who are seem super
spiritual or super religious or very well connected to those
(05:05):
things. Well, I mean, I think shame is
at the heart of this, whether it's shame towards not being
spiritual enough to just lettingshame be the dominant voice in
our lives and the choices we make.
You know, we become stagnant andwe feel shameful for being
stagnant, but we also that shamemakes us feel inadequate to be
more than we are. And it's so perpetuating, you
(05:27):
know, kind of like you said withcomparison.
I was talking to my wife just yesterday about this.
How like people in my life a couple years back when I was
staying with my mom, I was in that bad situation.
All my friends were like, you know, look at us, we're all in
these homes, forgot our lives all figured out.
And to me, I, I never saw that as they're ahead of me, but it
(05:48):
was something that was really important to them.
But as the years have gone on, alot of them sort of lost touch
with the connections they had for those home for where they
were living and those jobs they left or moved on from.
And now they're sort of startingat square 1 again.
And now they're trying to compare themselves to me and
seeing me get ahead. And it's like, hey, bro, like
(06:09):
I'm not someone you need to compare yourself to.
Like that's you need to compare yourself to who?
To yourself and not even to who you were five years ago, to who
you were yesterday, right? Like that's the only comparison
you should make. That's right, there's an axiom.
The axiom we're going to use to anchor today's show is release
what you think you know for fixed ideals in a hardened mind
(06:30):
or poison, remain open and accepting to all possibilities.
This reconnection begins by letting go of these rigid ideals
and these, these painful thoughts and things we have
about ourselves and, and these rigid ideas about what
spirituality should actually feel like.
(06:51):
You know, when, when you came tome for, for mentorship and
teaching, I never told you what to expect.
I could take you to a sunrise and let you soak it in.
And you must describe how it feels to you.
It's never going to be the same,right?
I can show you a great many things, wonderful things, but
(07:13):
for it to be authentic and for it to be genuine, you must
connect that within. And that's a place that I can
never, I can never know truly fully.
Well, I think this is the perfect axiom for this because I
know for me a lot of my stagnation and when I got into
self help and I'm trying to understand myself and all this
(07:34):
information was great, but at the time it had to work with my
current understanding and map ofthe world.
Yes, the more rigidly I held to that map, the less I allowed
information to filter in. And it wasn't till life me that
I was like, all right, I don't know anything and I need to just
look at the world through the eyes of a child.
(07:57):
And that's when I was able to truly let wisdom come to me.
And still after all this time I've been doing this, I still
know nothing. It's just the best mentality to
have. Yeah, it keeps us curious.
But this axiom, you're right, this axiom, this axiom attempts
to, to guide us instead of condemning, right?
And because when we cling to these rigid ideals of what
(08:20):
should be or what something should feel like based on a
comparison to what we think others are doing or what others
are telling us they're doing, we, we, we harden ourselves, I
guess what's actually happening in the moment, what's actually
going to happen. And we try to force that and we
try to control that. Then what we find is emptiness.
What we find is, is a void. And we sign as we start to
(08:43):
disconnect ourselves, because connection is truly going with
the flow and the vibration of what's happening.
And what this, what this does isaxioms telling us not to poison
ourselves through expectations, through fixed expectations and
these rigid ideas, right? Because reconnection does not
(09:08):
start by forcing belief or by accepting dogma.
It's simply releasing the demandthat connection look the way
that it did in the past, as you said, or what it should look
like in the future. We have to experience it now
because everything fluctuates, everything moves, everything
changes. And you said it perfectly.
(09:30):
You'd allow yourself to sit withit as you are now.
It's important to remember that the light never leaves us.
The light never leaves us. It waits.
It waits for us to reconnect. It waits for us to become aware
again, to remember there is there is no distance from the
light. There is none.
And of course, the ethos that will be anchoring our episode
(09:53):
today will be truth and connection.
Connection is an obvious one. Why is truth so important?
I think when it comes to being in these types of spiritually
desolate times of our lives, it's usually through the denial
of truth. It's the avoidance of
accountability, avoidance of reality.
So I think truth is one of the most important things that can
(10:15):
push through the fog and bring us back to connection.
Yeah, you're right. Because truth, Truth kind of ask
us, or really almost, almost demands that we stop pretending
that we're fine when we're not. And that's very important in
this path, in this work, in shadow work and healing of any
(10:36):
kind. It's about knowing what you're
up against, knowing where you need help, knowing where that
disconnection is. Sometimes it's in the body,
sometimes it's in the mind. Sometimes our hearts are closed,
sometimes our souls are tired, right?
It's just. But we cannot begin to heal if
we don't know what's wrong. So.
(10:59):
And of course, connection. Connection reminds us that
separation isn't healed by performance.
Presence over performance, presence over perfection every
time. Right When we allow ourselves to
tell the truth about the disconnection, about the
problems, about the traumas, thepains, whatever, without shame,
without blame, especially self blame here because you're just,
(11:22):
you're just being a human at this point.
It's fine, you'll get there, butthe first threat of reconnection
starts to form when we can be truthful and honest with
ourselves. That's when we can start that
journey again. To be able to peer through the
complacency you feel in that moment.
When again, I think about those times in my life where I got
stuck in a cycle and I'm workingthat dead end job and it's just
(11:44):
every day I'm going in, I feel my soul going away from me.
But I'm just, it's like, you know, this is life.
Go to work, come home, dissociate and distract.
Go back to work work and it's just unending.
Right. And I'm not thinking about what
do I do to change this, I just accept this as my reality.
Well, that that brings us to what this disconnection really
(12:05):
is. What is, by your estimate, what
is spiritual disconnection? It definitely is a lot of
numbness and stuff and and yeah,yeah.
You know, it's, it's we all knowwhat it's like to have the
wonderment of a child to think back to all the excitement and
joy you had of life moving on around you.
And you know, I mean, I'm not going to say we will always have
(12:28):
the livelihood of a child. But you know, when you start to
dissociate, when you're in thosesituations and life just becomes
becomes just a day in, day out process, like you lose that
wonderment that is life. And I think that's one of my key
things I look for now is it's like, am I bored with life now?
(12:51):
And am I disconnected from living a life of purpose?
And it doesn't mean that I'm outthere changing the lives of
thousands of people, but I'm making steps to grow, to become
more, to take care of myself andto find enjoyment in life.
Like that was one thing that wasreally hard for me when I
started the healing journey is Irealized most of my life, I
(13:13):
never felt worthy of being content and be complacent.
And that's a level of dissociation that happens when
we're disconnected from God, because God loves us for who we
are, not who we're becoming. Yeah, yeah, we there is a there
is a cynicism that starts to show up too besides the normal,
(13:35):
right. We start to and and I'm not
talking about healthy dose of that.
And we should always trust yet verify everything, should always
ask questions, right? Never get rid.
Of keep expectations down a Bay.Right.
Well, just don't, just don't expect the answer that you want,
right? I mean, because, because
sometimes the answers aren't what you expect, but when
(13:57):
there's this kind of this real kind of Debbie Downer about all
the stuff he once loved, you know, emotional shutdowns and,
and again, going through those spiritual motions of the
practices and the literature andwhatever used to to bring you
joy no longer does right. Prayer just becomes words
instead of actually communing. Meditation becomes just another
(14:21):
stupid task instead of a place for you to do all the good work,
you know? And if you do rituals and stuff,
you still got to go through the motions on those two, but you're
really not. Your heart's not in it.
It comes from a place of practice instead of a place of
fulfillment. Right.
Which it's OK to have those periods.
(14:43):
I'm not saying that is a low point.
We will all have those lulls in life.
We're just maintaining a routine.
But there's a difference betweena couple weeks Lowell and a
couple years. Yeah.
And, and you and I quite often run into people where some
religious authority or spiritualauthority actually harmed,
(15:03):
harmed, and then they got no closure.
They got no kind of moving on point from there.
And we see that a lot too. Or when when life delivers a
blow that doesn't make any senseand you can't make any sense of
it, you know, there there's yoursoul won't rebel, it'll withdraw
it kind of, you know, right. And and we like to look at
(15:24):
ourselves and judge ourselves really hard that that withdrawal
is just, I'm just becoming weak or I'm a failure.
Or when it's actually a built insuper intelligent survival
response. Well, it's like, I think also
there's just a lot of people who, I mean, they grow up in
religion, having this perceptionof how God and life works pushed
(15:45):
upon them. And as they get into life, they
realize it's not Santa Claus, right?
It's not the way it was portrayed to them.
And so they leave religion all together.
They leave faith all together. Yeah, yeah.
And that affects them on every level of their body, as if it
were them hurting themselves if they'll, you know, because
(16:08):
everything we feed to the subconscious, it doesn't.
Again, it doesn't have a sense of humor.
It doesn't have really much of Asense of anything that we that
we understand, you know, from the human perspective, it just,
it just it hear something, you see something, it experiences
something. And if you don't take steps to
(16:28):
address that, then it just becomes a repeating pattern over
and over and over again. Well, I'm just like the cynicism
you brought up earlier. Those who are without faith of
any kind are the most cynical people you'll meet.
Yeah, and, and it's a really sharp, really sharp cynicism
too. You know, again, we're not
talking about that healthy, healthy curiosity, that healthy
questioning. We should question everything.
(16:50):
I've been thrown out of church before when I was a kid for, for
being curious. I was OK with that.
It did make me hate or religion or spirituality, but I just
assumed they just weren't ready for to be challenged or to have
a, a kid asking questions. But for many people, it does
cause damage. It does cause problems.
You know, there's something elsethat that happens when, when we
(17:11):
have this, this again, going back to this rigid ideals of
what spirituality has to be and how it has to feel.
We see this a lot. We've talked about this many
times where spirituality must be, must always, almost, it must
always feel peaceful or uplifting or, you know, unicorns
and rainbows and and clouds and beautiful angels with harps.
(17:31):
And that's not, that's not how life works.
Just because something hard doesn't mean it's not good.
Yeah. Just because something's really
easy doesn't mean that it's not going to damage you in some way,
right? I'll be honest, one of the
greatest awarenesses I had at a young age that I'm so thankful
of carried through life is any I, I noticed anytime I went
through something rather difficult emotionally,
(17:53):
spiritually, whatever in life, Ialways came out better for it,
at least majority of the time. And so whenever, especially in
my adult years, I start, I went through something, I'd always be
like, all right, there's a lesson to be learned here.
And I was so thankful to have that perspective because those
dark moments to the place where people turn bitter.
When did you start? When did you just start dabbling
(18:15):
in philosophy? Just in general.
Honestly, it was shortly before I met you.
I loved Buddhism and stuff like that.
I loved quotes growing up. And it would always be like, you
know, there's wisdom to that. I resonate with that.
But it was nothing I ever pursued.
And it wasn't until, you know, Iwas going through one of these
spiritual decline phases of my life where it was just going and
(18:36):
working a job in a horrible relationship.
And I started picking up Marcus Aurelius and different books to
be like, all right, what I need to look at life on a deeper
level. And that's really when I dove
into my mid to late 20s. Right, OK, because I mean,
philosophy, the philosophers, those considered to be, you
(18:58):
know, the the foundation for Stoicism that does that does
help us navigate those hard things you were talking about
with more grace and more understanding.
But even even Stoicism can be taken to an extreme, as we
talked about on last show, you know, where you just go into
complete emotional numbness. And that's not what they were
trying to get us to do balance in all things.
So, you know, again, it's, it's these rigid beliefs that we have
(19:21):
about an experience and just because we experienced something
and we can, you know, say, oh, well, it's going to feel like
this again, it doesn't always work that way, especially,
especially if you're, you're in the middle of shadow work.
Everything feels way different and sometimes scary and hard and
hurtful and painful, right. So, but again, I just, I just
(19:42):
want to reiterate that the light, God, whatever you're,
whatever you believe, they neverleave you.
It's there's just waiting for you to remember.
It's got all the time in the world, right?
So what kinds of things make us turn numb or or harden our
(20:04):
spirituality or disconnection? You know, I think it's a very
vague term that we love to say, but trauma, you know, we life
will humble us. And if we choose to let life
take us down and not grow and learn for us, we let it turn US
cold and bitter, then we will lose connection to the divine.
(20:26):
You know, it's, it's like, it's,it'll feel like you lose God's
grace because it starts becomingthis contagious mentality.
I've seen this with a handful ofpeople, so I can't fully speak
to it, but a good amount of people where they go through
something really traumatic, something really dark, and
instead of trying to rise from it or grow from it, which don't
(20:48):
get wrong, trauma will humble usand it's all about working with
ourselves. But if we choose to blame and
not take accountability for our lives to be victims of the lives
we have and not grow, you know, we, we calcify.
It becomes the world is happening to us.
Right. And going back to the axiom that
(21:10):
that hardened position that thatfixed mind probably started
because it needed to protect us from something.
That's where we started developing then, right?
And that's, and then that leads into performance and numbness
and all these things that we're talking about.
But while it's protecting us, it, it blocks us from being
present. Armor is good in certain
(21:32):
situations, but it's never meantto be worn all the time, right?
Going back to going back to the book, the the knight in rusty
armor, yeah, he was protected, but he couldn't move.
Eventually, you know, he was stuck in there forever.
Well, I love how you said it earlier.
I mean, it's just like trauma teaches the nervous system that
openness is dangerous. We learned that we have to covet
(21:55):
our truths our our vulnerabilities.
We have to hide our true selves away and parade around to
something different. We learn it's not safe to be
open and a lot of the times it'sjust the stories we're telling
ourselves because of 1 bad experience or a couple bad
experiences. But man, that is a rough place
to be when you start wearing that armor anywhere and
everywhere. Yeah, yeah.
(22:17):
And all things have their have their their uses.
Not all things are meant for allthings.
You can't use a hammer against, you know, trying to clean your
window. You're going to clean it all
right. It's going to be see through.
But this takes us back to to ourethos of truth.
(22:37):
And this is where it becomes really essential because
reconnection begins that honest self recognition, not judgement,
not fixing. Stop trying to fix everything
just at first, simply acknowledging, I, I, I ended up
this way for a reason. Let's investigate that blame a
little, right? And when we can do that without
(22:59):
blame or shame, we can start to retrain these things that are
trying to protect us and let them know that, hey, we're not
in danger. It's all good.
And they'll start to harden or they'll start to soften.
And this allows that light to kind of reconnect to us again.
It's, it's there. It wants to connect, but there,
(23:20):
there's something important I want to talk about next is that
reconnection is in allowing thisexperience, not by believing
more, Michael, Just believe more.
Believe harder, damn it, Believeharder.
We have to have to allow ourselves the experience, even
even the tough ones, especially the tough ones, because those
(23:41):
are the ones that are going to probably teach us more, wouldn't
you say? Yeah, completely.
I mean, again, I love how you say that, how it's not about
believing more, but about experiencing more, you know,
again, not blame and shame. And when it comes down to that,
it's being able to take stock ofthe part we plan our own
suffering without judging ourselves through stillness and
(24:04):
things where we are in the present, where we can see the
odd that is around us. Because I really think that is
the number one thing that connects us to the divine is
being able to be in wonder with the world around us, with the
beauty of all things. Yeah, yeah.
Even the things that, even the things that that make us feel
(24:24):
uncomfortable because there's a there's that inherent greatness
in all things, all things under creation.
But this kind of reconnected spiritually rarely if ever
happens at the level of belief. Now, I will say this.
I do, even with you and with anyone who's ever talked to me,
I do encourage people to take stock and to take inventories of
(24:47):
the things that they believe in,the things they think, and the
things they do, right? Because sometimes you may have
outgrown A philosophy or you mayhave outgrown a set of beliefs.
This is not what I'm talking about here.
What I'm talking about here is forcing that that level of
belief to go higher, as if if you just weren't believing
enough. Right?
(25:10):
And most people won't reconnect because they finally think the
right thoughts or adopt A betterphilosophy.
Yeah, they they reconnect because they allow themselves to
open up and soften and feel something again.
Well then I wouldn't even be bold as to say many people.
Unless you're actively going to church every weekend, there's a
very high chance you don't even know how to contextualize what
(25:31):
your idea of God is beyond a higher power.
I think many people that believein a higher power don't have
really a belief system. It's something they've never
taken the time to really reflectupon, which is why I think
that's so important. Yeah, reconnection happens
through lived experience. Period.
(25:51):
Good night, everybody. No, just kidding.
It happens in those moments of stillness.
If we are present, this allows us to calm ourselves and to
start to start to re program theparts of our body and get it
back into alignment with our mind and our heart, right?
And our soul. Because we have to give
(26:12):
ourselves space to settle and not let our mind just endlessly
narrate nonsense at us all day long, right?
You know it's it happens in nature where nothing demands
belief, explanation or performance.
The body simply remembers that it belongs.
If you come into alignment, it happens through breath and not
(26:36):
as some fancy technique to master, but as that quiet rhythm
that brings you back into your body.
It settles your mind and makes your heart feel safe, right?
And gives and gives your soul something to reconnect to.
What I think an important thing also to bring up is people lose
faith. Doo Doo, oh, God's not doing
anything in my life. God's not getting fulfilling
(26:58):
what I need. And it's like one of the
realizations I've had as I've started traversing this path is
it's like God will always meet you, but you have to be able to
put work forward. You can't sit on your couch and
say I won $1,000,000 and expect it to just appear, you know,
build the business, have the dream in your mind, but you have
to, you put 40% out there, God will give you 60%.
(27:20):
How I look at it, that is the ratio to me.
And sometimes it'll be a little harder, a lot of times it'll be
a little easier. But it's you have if you want
God to work miracles in your life, you got to meet Him
halfway. Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's why forcing belief almost always fails.
And I would say, I would almost say it probably always fails to
(27:40):
some degree. There's always exception to the
rules, I know. But when we try to force it, it
tries to operate from the mind outward and ignores the other
three parts of us, our body, ourheart, our emotions, and our
soul. Reconnection moves from
experience inward, just like allthe things we talk about.
(28:02):
It starts inside. And when someone demands
certainty before they allow openness, it ain't never going
to happen. It ain't never going to happen.
They cut off. They literally cut themselves
off from the very thing they're seeking when we do.
Favorite place to meet peoples in the unknown?
In your hearts, yeah. And the unknown in that you call
it the void, but I call it the field of possibility, right?
(28:26):
But meaning, meaning and understanding will always come
after openness and presence. Those two things have to be
first always. And then this is where we fall
back to the axiom again, becausethe axiom tells us that we have
to learn to release the need to know every damn thing and to
(28:47):
control every damn thing. You know, feel that, that that's
a very important part of us. Not all messages we, we, we
receive. Do we read or hear, right?
We talk about this all the time.Everything that happens in US,
inside of us and around us can be Teachers are certainly
messengers. Well, one thing I've really
(29:07):
learned when it comes to faith and understanding the universe's
divine plan is it's like if the universe, you're putting the
effort out there and the universe isn't meeting you, it's
probably because it has something even better planned
for you. Or you have to have some things
blocking you. You have to let go different
things. Or maybe all things.
When you stop, look, when you stop demanding answers and just
(29:29):
just allow yourself to be present with what is real in
this moment, the connection you thought was lost or did or was
lost for you will start to appear back on its own.
It just requires openness and presence, period.
You can't, you can't beat this thing to death.
You just can't, right? You can't connection.
(29:51):
Connection doesn't live in concepts or declarations,
Michael. Connection lives in shared or
lived moments, moment to moment to moment.
And you can't, you can't think your way back to faith, can't
think back to anything. But again, you have to, you have
to experience yourself honestly.And that could be one breath at
(30:13):
a time, 1 moment at a time, one honest counter in the encounter
with what is So what blocks reconnection?
OK, so I, I noticed that I'm being really cynical and oh man,
I'm figuring out that, that I'vekind of put these blocks in
myself or I'm, I'm disconnecting.
What kinds of shadows may block our attempts at reconnection?
(30:33):
As you say, cynicism, one of those keywords I was thinking of
is doubt. Whether it's doubt in the
divine, doubt in ourselves, or doubt in others.
You know, when we doubt the ability for things to get
better, they often don't. And usually we don't have the
energy to put forward to try to make them better because we've
already made our claim. It's not going to think.
(30:54):
Another thing is things like hate.
When you harbor resentment, it will weigh down on you more than
anything else. It'll make you bitter to the
world, it'll make you jump to anger, and it'll corrupt your
ability to connect with God, with people, with life.
Yeah, One of the things is something that we do with each
(31:17):
other. We talked about this a few
episodes where we try to meet people where they used to be
instead of meeting them where they are, right?
We try to reconnect almost like exactly as it was, you know, and
you talked about this a little bit already, but we try to
measure this connection, how it felt, how it's supposed to be
against a past version of ourselves when prayer felt more
(31:41):
alive or when meaning felt obvious and purpose was easy to
find. And this of course, leads to
frustration, which is a block way it is a is a barrier to
connection. You know, as you said, if we're,
if we're frustrated, how can we connect?
If I'm frustrated with with a person, I can't connect with
them, I have to figure out how to let that go before I can
(32:03):
because honestly, the path back is rarely the same as the path
forward. Would you say yeah?
Well, it's never the same because it's always everything
is a lesson good and bad. I mean, the more you can look at
things as not good and bad but just lessons, the more you can
end up finding the truth. Within all things you can find
(32:23):
growth and. Another one is comparison.
We talk about comparison a lot because it really does.
It really does hinder us. It really does cause us problems
when we're comparing ourselves to anything for any reason.
You cannot measure, you can never measure your inner life
against other people's outward expressions or teachings or or
(32:46):
their experiences. You just can't.
It's not because it's not because you can't kind of get a
sense for who they are or how they feel or, or the things
they're doing. It's just simply because we can
take a hundred, a hundred of youlisteners right now all go out
and look at the sunset and we'regoing to have 100 different
experiences. That's just the way it is.
(33:08):
And and that's the way it was designed.
It's it's supposed to be that way, right?
So we don't all just collectively say, oh, that's
cool. And then, you know, lose our awe
and lose, lose the meaning for what we're supposed to be doing
and what and what's here. Expectation.
Expectation. Yeah, Yeah, that's another one,
right. And I didn't so much see this in
(33:29):
you because I I think you had some, some experience in this.
But almost every time I get a new student and it's time to
learn meditation and they just assume that that it's like being
plugged in. Like remember how you know how
Neil gets plugged in and can learn Kung Fu in 10 minutes?
You think that's what it's like?And it's like, no, it's a lot
(33:49):
more boring than that. You know, for the most part, you
can have have these these reallycool.
Like every once in a while, Heather will share something
that that she's seen in in a meditation.
And it's just like, man, you have the coolest meditations.
Mine aren't that cool. Usually.
I do have cool ones, but you know.
(34:10):
Yeah, I never knew guided meditations, but I remember when
I was first going into practice and doing shadow work and I was
digging deep. I was going through the trenches
of emotions and I was trying to find answers.
And I remember it was like I spent literally 3 hours in front
of a candle just letting my minddo its thing before I had that
(34:31):
aha moment. And it was just a fraction of
what I was trying to understand.But it is.
It is diligent work that is not prompt.
And again, it's like often we wewant that clarity, we want that
result, we want that situation or relationship.
And that is that is not the paththe universe has planned for us.
(34:52):
It will happen and it's due time.
Blessed are those who can, who can sit without expectation,
because for most of us, that's atough one.
It sure was for me, right? I talk about, I've talked about
my struggles about learning meditation and making it a
regular practice on other episodes.
But you know, for those of you who can, who can truly look at
(35:13):
look at this practices with thatcurious mind of a child and not
expect anything, bless you. You are blessed.
Because the rest of us have to have to struggle to get through
it sometimes. And, you know, it's important to
remember also, reconnection doesn't always doesn't usually
(35:33):
begin with some feeling of inspiration or awakening.
It's it's, you know, needs to begin with that allowing to
allow that disconnection to be seen without judgement and, and
to be able to say, hey, this is just where I am right now, but
not allowing that to be your mantra, right?
Acknowledging it and then choosing to stay present anyway.
(35:57):
What are some what are some somepathways back to connection?
What are some things we could do?
Presence, man. I tell you what, again, when I
talk about that whole routine where people just get in and
it's work, come home, dissociate, often people are
refusing to be present with the moment.
Yeah, and I mean, that can be a walk in nature.
(36:17):
But again, a walk in nature. No music, no nothing.
Be involved with the present moment.
Allow your thoughts to come up. Allow yourself to feel what
you've been running from. Allow yourself to question the
life you're leading and if you want change and what you'd have
to do to change. Yeah, one of your favorites,
(36:38):
spending time in nature. Yeah, it almost skills all
things that that ails us sometimes, right?
Or your favorite journaling. Journaling, yes, but, but you
know, I, I, I, I want to be clear here.
When we're, when we're working on reconnection, I want you to
try to journal without using anykind of, you know, spiritual
(36:58):
language. Just speak plainly to yourself,
honestly, plainly about what youfeel, where you feel it, what
you don't feel. Why are you confused or what's
confusing you? What hurts you?
Where does it hurt that? And because a lot of us who've
been in kind of walking these kind of paths for a long time,
(37:22):
we start to put some kind of weird pressure on ourselves to
always sound wise or faithful, right?
And look, truth knows better. If you're not, if you're not,
you're not feeling it. You're not feeling it.
And you don't need to try and lie to yourself because that is
the worst lie you could tell is the one you tell yourself.
You know, truth doesn't need some kind of decoration.
(37:43):
You're not putting you know things on a tree.
Well, I think an important thinghere too is it's you don't have
to have all the answers. It's good to have the questions.
Just let them exist. Allow yourself to go through
life without needing to know everything.
The more you can release your need to control and feel right
about everything, the more you allow yourself to truly see
(38:06):
things as they are and not the way you want them to be.
Yeah, yeah, there's another big step here.
Once we start these practices and once we start to really
honestly look at ourselves, we have to put a lot of trust in
something that we may not be able to see or explain, right?
We got to truck that return, that return to connection
because it like, like we said, it doesn't respond to command or
(38:28):
just try harder or believe harder, Michael.
It responds to a space that we create where we could be honest
with ourselves and without judgement or shame or guilt or
blame. When your body and your heart no
longer feel under pressure to perform or prove something or to
feel something specific, these things start to happen
(38:50):
naturally. Now we got to let go.
We got to, this is where we got to really let go and and just
trust what's happening, right? Yeah, well, again, it's that
unknown. That is, in my opinion, God's
favorite place to meet us is when we're willing to get out of
that comfort zone and go into the unknown.
One of my favorite quotes of alltime this year, it has been like
my trademark quote. The magic you are looking for is
(39:12):
in the work you are avoiding. And what that really means is
it's like we know what we need to do to change our lives, but
we have to be willing to step into that discomfort of the
unknown, to claim what we want, even if that means we mess up,
even if that means we lose, as long as we keep taking that work
(39:32):
and trust. And even if it takes longer than
we wanted to. Yeah, man, people don't like
that one. They don't.
They don't. That's why.
That's why a lot of attraction misses them all the time.
We talked about this before, right?
We should want to do it, then let it go.
That is the correct sequence. Yep, you're putting all the
ingredients together, throwing that cake in the oven, and it's
(39:54):
up to the universe when that cakes going to be done.
Well, stop checking it all the time because you're just letting
the heat out right of the oven. Just just give it some time.
It'll, it'll be done when it's done right.
And this trusting, trusting thisreturn back to this connection,
it's allowing the process to unfold, as we say all the time,
without any rigid timelines. Now you know, it's, it's OK to
(40:18):
have some sort of timeline when,when we're, when we're special,
we're working with goals. Those help us keep focused.
But you don't get to always choose.
You know how and when. And this is where, if it makes
you feel better, this is where awareness is powerful because
you can really look for it. Start kind of trying to be aware
of the of the small subtle shifts, but you can't mess with
(40:41):
them. Leave them alone.
Stop messing. Stop opening the oven, let it
go, let it cook so life doesn't rush.
It takes its time. It's in its own rhythms, right?
And growth happens at a pace that is best for us because we
have to. It meets us where we're at,
right? And that level of healing is
(41:03):
where it's going to meet us. If we're not quite ready, it
could be harmful for us for it to happen.
So it grows at this pace, I'll say it grows at a pace that
safety allows, right? Well, I think man, you brought
the law of attraction earlier and it's like one of those
common misconceptions, right? If you are wanting to build this
dream life, but you're coming atit from a place of lack and not
(41:25):
a place of deserving that life, like that is what you're going
to bring into your life. Often people are trying to
steamroll ahead or be entitled and it's just, it's like we have
to, we got to meet ourselves where we're at and we have to be
able to build that confidence and competence.
(41:48):
It's something that we have to develop over time because when
you come from a place of scarcity and lack and you're
wanting to again, have your dream life, you're going to
start, you're going to have all these issues come up in that
pursuit. That's going to lead to that
cynicism. It's going to lead to that
doubt. The divine meets you where
you're at, but you have to be willing to do the same.
(42:10):
Right, Well said. You have any final thoughts for
our show today? If you're someone who's feeling
stuck in life, especially when it comes to being connected with
God, if you feel like God's abandoned you, you feel like you
just lost that connection. It is always there.
You just have to be able to reach for you have to be willing
to reach for it. Connection lies in presence, but
(42:32):
it also lies in truth. You got to be able to look in
the mirror and ask yourself whatis the part I'm playing in this
life I have now and what steps do I need to change it for what
I do want. And God will meet you, the
universe will meet you. But you have to be able to meet
yourself where you're at and take those steps that feel so
(42:53):
uncomfortable trusting in the unknown and what lies ahead of
you. Well said.
Our affirmations for today. I do not need to force
connection. I allow it to return naturally.
My honesty is a sacred doorway back to the lights.
Even in numbness, I am still connected to something greater
than myself. I trust the quiet ways
(43:14):
reconnection unfold within me. I released rigid expectations
and remain open to what is real now.
Our journal prompts. When did I first start feeling
disconnected and what was happening in my life that at
that time? What beliefs about spirituality
might I be holding that feel heavy, rigid, or inherited
rather than lived? Where do I already feel small
(43:36):
moments of connection in my daily life, even if they don't
look spiritual? What emotions have I been
avoiding that might be asking tobe acknowledged before
reconnection can happen? If connection returned gently
rather than dramatically, what might it feel like in my body?
So look, you may not have actually lost your connection.
It might. This might be the after effects
(43:59):
of an adaptation, adapting to something, adapting to pain or
loss, disappointment, or to moments where openness felt too
costly and or too scary. What looks like spiritual
distance is often spiritual intelligence doing what it
needed to do to keep you functioning.
There is no failure in that. There is wisdom in survival.
(44:22):
Survival's not a bad thing, eventhough we kind of talk a lot
about it, but there is wisdom init.
Reconnection is not something you earn by believing harder or
praying louder or fixed or fixing yourself.
It's not an achievement. It is a remembrance.
It happened when that guard at the gate of our hearts relaxes
(44:46):
and that heart is allowed to open and feel again without
being interrogated, right? This is why proof has never been
the doorway. The moment you demand certainty,
the body tightens, the mind tricks.
The moment you soften, presence returns.
Spiritual connection does not arrive with answers, it arrives
(45:07):
with just being enough. So let this be the reflection
that you carry forward from today's episode.
You don't have to believe harder.
You only need to soften enough to start feeling.
And a very simple call to actionI have today just work on
releasing just one fixed idea about what spirituality is
supposed to look like or feel like.
(45:28):
One image or one expectation or one comparison.
Instead of seeking certainty, createspace, instead of chasing
meaning, allow presence. Let it be a quiet breath or a
still moment or a sense of grounding.
Let those be enough, because they are.
And remember this as you go. The light was never gone was
waiting for you to come home without needing proof in its in
(45:50):
its existence. Want to thank you guys so much
for joining us today. Make sure to check out our
socials, the Youtubes, the Tik toks, the Facebooks.
What am I missing? Spotify.
They're already listening on Spotify.
The all of the above. 'S all the above, all the
podcast places that you love. If we're not there, drop us a
comment and I'll make sure we get there.
(46:11):
If we're not at your favorite spot, but we're at a lot of
those, right? And check out the website, a new
ashla.com. It's constantly adding new
things. We got have you started?
Have you started stuff back up on Sunday?
Nope, starting this Sunday you'll get your next blog though
all. Right, so he's he's dropping
stuff on Sundays. I've got things also hitting on
(46:31):
Wednesdays and Fridays. So it's always constantly being
updated. But we thank you guys so much
for joining us. Michael.
Thank you my friend. Of course, always a pleasure.
And with love and gratitude, addLuchum.
Add luchum.
Have you ever wondered if you lost your spiritual connection
or if life just made it too painful to feel?
That's what we're going to be talking about today.
You're listening to the new actual podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the new actual podcast.
(00:21):
My name is Justin Gates, and joining me today, as always, is
my my Dos Amigo. We're the two amigos, I think.
Michael Perry. Hey fam.
Not the three amigos we got to get us in another amigo.
So today's show is about spiritual connection and finding
that a pathway back to reconnection.
(00:43):
And this is where a lot of people find themselves, would
you say? Yeah.
And it's a really quiet, drama, drama free thing for most of us
because it just happens over time.
And these people aren't angry atGod or angry at the light or
angry at the universe. And they're not necessarily just
rejecting belief, right? They're just kind of numb and
distant, or maybe disconnected in a way that feels really
(01:05):
confusing and heavy. Well, and sadly, I think most
people are in this fear. You know, you look around and
everyone's so stuck in the hustle and the daily grind and
the monotony of it all and just routine, which I'm not routines,
not a bad thing. But when you're not building
with your life, when you're not connecting in life, you get
(01:26):
trapped in that hole. Go to work, come home, watch TV
type prison that just slowly, like you said, makes you numb.
I mean, I've been guilty of it. I know more people than not who
have been there, and yeah, it's just this almost spiritual
exhaustion that happens over time.
(01:48):
Yeah, yeah. And and of course, there are
those of us who kind of interpret that as a failure, a
failure of faith, the failure ofsome kind of moral flaw.
But it's not. It's a very real human response.
It's tough being a human being. So we have all these things we
have to worry about. Most of it we let happen on
autopilot, which is sometimes gets us in trouble, right.
(02:11):
But I'd, I'd say for most people, it's kind of feeling of
sense. This feeling or sense of
separation doesn't come from notbelieving.
It comes from life burnout, unanswered prayers or prolonged
stress. Because we have, we, we deal
with a lot of, we deal with a lot of subconscious memory.
(02:32):
And that comes from these experiences that taught us.
And we talk about this all the time because it's important.
But these memories that the nervous system holds and it
tells us that openness leads to pain or betrayal or whatever.
Right. Yeah.
Well, I think for a lot of people, even one, one thing the
few times I've been in this situation is I'm stuck.
(02:54):
You're stuck. They're stuck in a situation
that is perpetuating this type of numbness to survive, whether
that's an interpersonal relationship or that job that's
just destroying their soul. Or, or keeping the person from
being mindful of their soul and their responsibilities to it.
Yeah. Because we get, we get
(03:14):
overloaded, overwhelmed. And this could come in the form
of, you know, prayers, feeling empty.
You're just kind of going through the motions.
Same with meditation. Meditation almost feels forced.
I've been there. I've been there before.
And it could, it could make you feel like, why spirituality can
feel distant even when the desire for it is still alive.
(03:34):
You still want it. You still, you know, understand
you need it, But there's just some disconnection there.
Yeah. And and I, and I and I have to
imagine that it's because we getourselves into a point where we
start pitting the mind against the heart, the heart against the
the soul, soul against the emotions and we just really fall
(03:57):
out of alignment. And then we would totally
disconnect while still going through the motions.
We still performing right Well. We get into that dissonance,
right? It's it's we know better, but
instead we justify it. And so it just creates this
mental divide where it's easier to not think about the
consequences of your lifestyle than it is to face the reality
(04:20):
of your situation. Yeah.
And this creates a lot of shame in people, especially if they
come out of them. They come from, you know, very
religious families or very spiritual families.
And it's not something that theywill admit or try to get help
from because they'll feel like they're being judged or they're
like, and they feel that shame where, you know, you're sitting
in stillness and feeling nothingreally.
(04:42):
Why that connection with God or with the universe or with light
or whatever used to feel alive. It used to feel exciting.
Now it feels kind of like nothing like void and then and
then you start to then you startto compare yourself to the
people who seem to have it all together, who are seem super
spiritual or super religious or very well connected to those
(05:05):
things. Well, I mean, I think shame is
at the heart of this, whether it's shame towards not being
spiritual enough to just lettingshame be the dominant voice in
our lives and the choices we make.
You know, we become stagnant andwe feel shameful for being
stagnant, but we also that shamemakes us feel inadequate to be
more than we are. And it's so perpetuating, you
(05:27):
know, kind of like you said withcomparison.
I was talking to my wife just yesterday about this.
How like people in my life a couple years back when I was
staying with my mom, I was in that bad situation.
All my friends were like, you know, look at us, we're all in
these homes, forgot our lives all figured out.
And to me, I, I never saw that as they're ahead of me, but it
(05:48):
was something that was really important to them.
But as the years have gone on, alot of them sort of lost touch
with the connections they had for those home for where they
were living and those jobs they left or moved on from.
And now they're sort of startingat square 1 again.
And now they're trying to compare themselves to me and
seeing me get ahead. And it's like, hey, bro, like
(06:09):
I'm not someone you need to compare yourself to.
Like that's you need to compare yourself to who?
To yourself and not even to who you were five years ago, to who
you were yesterday, right? Like that's the only comparison
you should make. That's right, there's an axiom.
The axiom we're going to use to anchor today's show is release
what you think you know for fixed ideals in a hardened mind
(06:30):
or poison, remain open and accepting to all possibilities.
This reconnection begins by letting go of these rigid ideals
and these, these painful thoughts and things we have
about ourselves and, and these rigid ideas about what
spirituality should actually feel like.
(06:51):
You know, when, when you came tome for, for mentorship and
teaching, I never told you what to expect.
I could take you to a sunrise and let you soak it in.
And you must describe how it feels to you.
It's never going to be the same,right?
I can show you a great many things, wonderful things, but
(07:13):
for it to be authentic and for it to be genuine, you must
connect that within. And that's a place that I can
never, I can never know truly fully.
Well, I think this is the perfect axiom for this because I
know for me a lot of my stagnation and when I got into
self help and I'm trying to understand myself and all this
(07:34):
information was great, but at the time it had to work with my
current understanding and map ofthe world.
Yes, the more rigidly I held to that map, the less I allowed
information to filter in. And it wasn't till life me that
I was like, all right, I don't know anything and I need to just
look at the world through the eyes of a child.
(07:57):
And that's when I was able to truly let wisdom come to me.
And still after all this time I've been doing this, I still
know nothing. It's just the best mentality to
have. Yeah, it keeps us curious.
But this axiom, you're right, this axiom, this axiom attempts
to, to guide us instead of condemning, right?
And because when we cling to these rigid ideals of what
(08:20):
should be or what something should feel like based on a
comparison to what we think others are doing or what others
are telling us they're doing, we, we, we harden ourselves, I
guess what's actually happening in the moment, what's actually
going to happen. And we try to force that and we
try to control that. Then what we find is emptiness.
What we find is, is a void. And we sign as we start to
(08:43):
disconnect ourselves, because connection is truly going with
the flow and the vibration of what's happening.
And what this, what this does isaxioms telling us not to poison
ourselves through expectations, through fixed expectations and
these rigid ideas, right? Because reconnection does not
(09:08):
start by forcing belief or by accepting dogma.
It's simply releasing the demandthat connection look the way
that it did in the past, as you said, or what it should look
like in the future. We have to experience it now
because everything fluctuates, everything moves, everything
changes. And you said it perfectly.
(09:30):
You'd allow yourself to sit withit as you are now.
It's important to remember that the light never leaves us.
The light never leaves us. It waits.
It waits for us to reconnect. It waits for us to become aware
again, to remember there is there is no distance from the
light. There is none.
And of course, the ethos that will be anchoring our episode
(09:53):
today will be truth and connection.
Connection is an obvious one. Why is truth so important?
I think when it comes to being in these types of spiritually
desolate times of our lives, it's usually through the denial
of truth. It's the avoidance of
accountability, avoidance of reality.
So I think truth is one of the most important things that can
(10:15):
push through the fog and bring us back to connection.
Yeah, you're right. Because truth, Truth kind of ask
us, or really almost, almost demands that we stop pretending
that we're fine when we're not. And that's very important in
this path, in this work, in shadow work and healing of any
(10:36):
kind. It's about knowing what you're
up against, knowing where you need help, knowing where that
disconnection is. Sometimes it's in the body,
sometimes it's in the mind. Sometimes our hearts are closed,
sometimes our souls are tired, right?
It's just. But we cannot begin to heal if
we don't know what's wrong. So.
(10:59):
And of course, connection. Connection reminds us that
separation isn't healed by performance.
Presence over performance, presence over perfection every
time. Right When we allow ourselves to
tell the truth about the disconnection, about the
problems, about the traumas, thepains, whatever, without shame,
without blame, especially self blame here because you're just,
(11:22):
you're just being a human at this point.
It's fine, you'll get there, butthe first threat of reconnection
starts to form when we can be truthful and honest with
ourselves. That's when we can start that
journey again. To be able to peer through the
complacency you feel in that moment.
When again, I think about those times in my life where I got
stuck in a cycle and I'm workingthat dead end job and it's just
(11:44):
every day I'm going in, I feel my soul going away from me.
But I'm just, it's like, you know, this is life.
Go to work, come home, dissociate and distract.
Go back to work work and it's just unending.
Right. And I'm not thinking about what
do I do to change this, I just accept this as my reality.
Well, that that brings us to what this disconnection really
(12:05):
is. What is, by your estimate, what
is spiritual disconnection? It definitely is a lot of
numbness and stuff and and yeah,yeah.
You know, it's, it's we all knowwhat it's like to have the
wonderment of a child to think back to all the excitement and
joy you had of life moving on around you.
And you know, I mean, I'm not going to say we will always have
(12:28):
the livelihood of a child. But you know, when you start to
dissociate, when you're in thosesituations and life just becomes
becomes just a day in, day out process, like you lose that
wonderment that is life. And I think that's one of my key
things I look for now is it's like, am I bored with life now?
(12:51):
And am I disconnected from living a life of purpose?
And it doesn't mean that I'm outthere changing the lives of
thousands of people, but I'm making steps to grow, to become
more, to take care of myself andto find enjoyment in life.
Like that was one thing that wasreally hard for me when I
started the healing journey is Irealized most of my life, I
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never felt worthy of being content and be complacent.
And that's a level of dissociation that happens when
we're disconnected from God, because God loves us for who we
are, not who we're becoming. Yeah, yeah, we there is a there
is a cynicism that starts to show up too besides the normal,
(13:35):
right. We start to and and I'm not
talking about healthy dose of that.
And we should always trust yet verify everything, should always
ask questions, right? Never get rid.
Of keep expectations down a Bay.Right.
Well, just don't, just don't expect the answer that you want,
right? I mean, because, because
sometimes the answers aren't what you expect, but when
(13:57):
there's this kind of this real kind of Debbie Downer about all
the stuff he once loved, you know, emotional shutdowns and,
and again, going through those spiritual motions of the
practices and the literature andwhatever used to to bring you
joy no longer does right. Prayer just becomes words
instead of actually communing. Meditation becomes just another
(14:21):
stupid task instead of a place for you to do all the good work,
you know? And if you do rituals and stuff,
you still got to go through the motions on those two, but you're
really not. Your heart's not in it.
It comes from a place of practice instead of a place of
fulfillment. Right.
Which it's OK to have those periods.
(14:43):
I'm not saying that is a low point.
We will all have those lulls in life.
We're just maintaining a routine.
But there's a difference betweena couple weeks Lowell and a
couple years. Yeah.
And, and you and I quite often run into people where some
religious authority or spiritualauthority actually harmed,
(15:03):
harmed, and then they got no closure.
They got no kind of moving on point from there.
And we see that a lot too. Or when when life delivers a
blow that doesn't make any senseand you can't make any sense of
it, you know, there there's yoursoul won't rebel, it'll withdraw
it kind of, you know, right. And and we like to look at
(15:24):
ourselves and judge ourselves really hard that that withdrawal
is just, I'm just becoming weak or I'm a failure.
Or when it's actually a built insuper intelligent survival
response. Well, it's like, I think also
there's just a lot of people who, I mean, they grow up in
religion, having this perceptionof how God and life works pushed
(15:45):
upon them. And as they get into life, they
realize it's not Santa Claus, right?
It's not the way it was portrayed to them.
And so they leave religion all together.
They leave faith all together. Yeah, yeah.
And that affects them on every level of their body, as if it
were them hurting themselves if they'll, you know, because
(16:08):
everything we feed to the subconscious, it doesn't.
Again, it doesn't have a sense of humor.
It doesn't have really much of Asense of anything that we that
we understand, you know, from the human perspective, it just,
it just it hear something, you see something, it experiences
something. And if you don't take steps to
(16:28):
address that, then it just becomes a repeating pattern over
and over and over again. Well, I'm just like the cynicism
you brought up earlier. Those who are without faith of
any kind are the most cynical people you'll meet.
Yeah, and, and it's a really sharp, really sharp cynicism
too. You know, again, we're not
talking about that healthy, healthy curiosity, that healthy
questioning. We should question everything.
(16:50):
I've been thrown out of church before when I was a kid for, for
being curious. I was OK with that.
It did make me hate or religion or spirituality, but I just
assumed they just weren't ready for to be challenged or to have
a, a kid asking questions. But for many people, it does
cause damage. It does cause problems.
You know, there's something elsethat that happens when, when we
(17:11):
have this, this again, going back to this rigid ideals of
what spirituality has to be and how it has to feel.
We see this a lot. We've talked about this many
times where spirituality must be, must always, almost, it must
always feel peaceful or uplifting or, you know, unicorns
and rainbows and and clouds and beautiful angels with harps.
(17:31):
And that's not, that's not how life works.
Just because something hard doesn't mean it's not good.
Yeah. Just because something's really
easy doesn't mean that it's not going to damage you in some way,
right? I'll be honest, one of the
greatest awarenesses I had at a young age that I'm so thankful
of carried through life is any I, I noticed anytime I went
through something rather difficult emotionally,
(17:53):
spiritually, whatever in life, Ialways came out better for it,
at least majority of the time. And so whenever, especially in
my adult years, I start, I went through something, I'd always be
like, all right, there's a lesson to be learned here.
And I was so thankful to have that perspective because those
dark moments to the place where people turn bitter.
When did you start? When did you just start dabbling
(18:15):
in philosophy? Just in general.
Honestly, it was shortly before I met you.
I loved Buddhism and stuff like that.
I loved quotes growing up. And it would always be like, you
know, there's wisdom to that. I resonate with that.
But it was nothing I ever pursued.
And it wasn't until, you know, Iwas going through one of these
spiritual decline phases of my life where it was just going and
(18:36):
working a job in a horrible relationship.
And I started picking up Marcus Aurelius and different books to
be like, all right, what I need to look at life on a deeper
level. And that's really when I dove
into my mid to late 20s. Right, OK, because I mean,
philosophy, the philosophers, those considered to be, you
(18:58):
know, the the foundation for Stoicism that does that does
help us navigate those hard things you were talking about
with more grace and more understanding.
But even even Stoicism can be taken to an extreme, as we
talked about on last show, you know, where you just go into
complete emotional numbness. And that's not what they were
trying to get us to do balance in all things.
So, you know, again, it's, it's these rigid beliefs that we have
(19:21):
about an experience and just because we experienced something
and we can, you know, say, oh, well, it's going to feel like
this again, it doesn't always work that way, especially,
especially if you're, you're in the middle of shadow work.
Everything feels way different and sometimes scary and hard and
hurtful and painful, right. So, but again, I just, I just
(19:42):
want to reiterate that the light, God, whatever you're,
whatever you believe, they neverleave you.
It's there's just waiting for you to remember.
It's got all the time in the world, right?
So what kinds of things make us turn numb or or harden our
(20:04):
spirituality or disconnection? You know, I think it's a very
vague term that we love to say, but trauma, you know, we life
will humble us. And if we choose to let life
take us down and not grow and learn for us, we let it turn US
cold and bitter, then we will lose connection to the divine.
(20:26):
You know, it's, it's like, it's,it'll feel like you lose God's
grace because it starts becomingthis contagious mentality.
I've seen this with a handful ofpeople, so I can't fully speak
to it, but a good amount of people where they go through
something really traumatic, something really dark, and
instead of trying to rise from it or grow from it, which don't
(20:48):
get wrong, trauma will humble usand it's all about working with
ourselves. But if we choose to blame and
not take accountability for our lives to be victims of the lives
we have and not grow, you know, we, we calcify.
It becomes the world is happening to us.
Right. And going back to the axiom that
(21:10):
that hardened position that thatfixed mind probably started
because it needed to protect us from something.
That's where we started developing then, right?
And that's, and then that leads into performance and numbness
and all these things that we're talking about.
But while it's protecting us, it, it blocks us from being
present. Armor is good in certain
(21:32):
situations, but it's never meantto be worn all the time, right?
Going back to going back to the book, the the knight in rusty
armor, yeah, he was protected, but he couldn't move.
Eventually, you know, he was stuck in there forever.
Well, I love how you said it earlier.
I mean, it's just like trauma teaches the nervous system that
openness is dangerous. We learned that we have to covet
(21:55):
our truths our our vulnerabilities.
We have to hide our true selves away and parade around to
something different. We learn it's not safe to be
open and a lot of the times it'sjust the stories we're telling
ourselves because of 1 bad experience or a couple bad
experiences. But man, that is a rough place
to be when you start wearing that armor anywhere and
everywhere. Yeah, yeah.
(22:17):
And all things have their have their their uses.
Not all things are meant for allthings.
You can't use a hammer against, you know, trying to clean your
window. You're going to clean it all
right. It's going to be see through.
But this takes us back to to ourethos of truth.
(22:37):
And this is where it becomes really essential because
reconnection begins that honest self recognition, not judgement,
not fixing. Stop trying to fix everything
just at first, simply acknowledging, I, I, I ended up
this way for a reason. Let's investigate that blame a
little, right? And when we can do that without
(22:59):
blame or shame, we can start to retrain these things that are
trying to protect us and let them know that, hey, we're not
in danger. It's all good.
And they'll start to harden or they'll start to soften.
And this allows that light to kind of reconnect to us again.
It's, it's there. It wants to connect, but there,
(23:20):
there's something important I want to talk about next is that
reconnection is in allowing thisexperience, not by believing
more, Michael, Just believe more.
Believe harder, damn it, Believeharder.
We have to have to allow ourselves the experience, even
even the tough ones, especially the tough ones, because those
(23:41):
are the ones that are going to probably teach us more, wouldn't
you say? Yeah, completely.
I mean, again, I love how you say that, how it's not about
believing more, but about experiencing more, you know,
again, not blame and shame. And when it comes down to that,
it's being able to take stock ofthe part we plan our own
suffering without judging ourselves through stillness and
(24:04):
things where we are in the present, where we can see the
odd that is around us. Because I really think that is
the number one thing that connects us to the divine is
being able to be in wonder with the world around us, with the
beauty of all things. Yeah, yeah.
Even the things that, even the things that that make us feel
(24:24):
uncomfortable because there's a there's that inherent greatness
in all things, all things under creation.
But this kind of reconnected spiritually rarely if ever
happens at the level of belief. Now, I will say this.
I do, even with you and with anyone who's ever talked to me,
I do encourage people to take stock and to take inventories of
(24:47):
the things that they believe in,the things they think, and the
things they do, right? Because sometimes you may have
outgrown A philosophy or you mayhave outgrown a set of beliefs.
This is not what I'm talking about here.
What I'm talking about here is forcing that that level of
belief to go higher, as if if you just weren't believing
enough. Right?
(25:10):
And most people won't reconnect because they finally think the
right thoughts or adopt A betterphilosophy.
Yeah, they they reconnect because they allow themselves to
open up and soften and feel something again.
Well then I wouldn't even be bold as to say many people.
Unless you're actively going to church every weekend, there's a
very high chance you don't even know how to contextualize what
(25:31):
your idea of God is beyond a higher power.
I think many people that believein a higher power don't have
really a belief system. It's something they've never
taken the time to really reflectupon, which is why I think
that's so important. Yeah, reconnection happens
through lived experience. Period.
(25:51):
Good night, everybody. No, just kidding.
It happens in those moments of stillness.
If we are present, this allows us to calm ourselves and to
start to start to re program theparts of our body and get it
back into alignment with our mind and our heart, right?
And our soul. Because we have to give
(26:12):
ourselves space to settle and not let our mind just endlessly
narrate nonsense at us all day long, right?
You know it's it happens in nature where nothing demands
belief, explanation or performance.
The body simply remembers that it belongs.
If you come into alignment, it happens through breath and not
(26:36):
as some fancy technique to master, but as that quiet rhythm
that brings you back into your body.
It settles your mind and makes your heart feel safe, right?
And gives and gives your soul something to reconnect to.
What I think an important thing also to bring up is people lose
faith. Doo Doo, oh, God's not doing
anything in my life. God's not getting fulfilling
(26:58):
what I need. And it's like one of the
realizations I've had as I've started traversing this path is
it's like God will always meet you, but you have to be able to
put work forward. You can't sit on your couch and
say I won $1,000,000 and expect it to just appear, you know,
build the business, have the dream in your mind, but you have
to, you put 40% out there, God will give you 60%.
(27:20):
How I look at it, that is the ratio to me.
And sometimes it'll be a little harder, a lot of times it'll be
a little easier. But it's you have if you want
God to work miracles in your life, you got to meet Him
halfway. Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's why forcing belief almost always fails.
And I would say, I would almost say it probably always fails to
(27:40):
some degree. There's always exception to the
rules, I know. But when we try to force it, it
tries to operate from the mind outward and ignores the other
three parts of us, our body, ourheart, our emotions, and our
soul. Reconnection moves from
experience inward, just like allthe things we talk about.
(28:02):
It starts inside. And when someone demands
certainty before they allow openness, it ain't never going
to happen. It ain't never going to happen.
They cut off. They literally cut themselves
off from the very thing they're seeking when we do.
Favorite place to meet peoples in the unknown?
In your hearts, yeah. And the unknown in that you call
it the void, but I call it the field of possibility, right?
(28:26):
But meaning, meaning and understanding will always come
after openness and presence. Those two things have to be
first always. And then this is where we fall
back to the axiom again, becausethe axiom tells us that we have
to learn to release the need to know every damn thing and to
(28:47):
control every damn thing. You know, feel that, that that's
a very important part of us. Not all messages we, we, we
receive. Do we read or hear, right?
We talk about this all the time.Everything that happens in US,
inside of us and around us can be Teachers are certainly
messengers. Well, one thing I've really
(29:07):
learned when it comes to faith and understanding the universe's
divine plan is it's like if the universe, you're putting the
effort out there and the universe isn't meeting you, it's
probably because it has something even better planned
for you. Or you have to have some things
blocking you. You have to let go different
things. Or maybe all things.
When you stop, look, when you stop demanding answers and just
(29:29):
just allow yourself to be present with what is real in
this moment, the connection you thought was lost or did or was
lost for you will start to appear back on its own.
It just requires openness and presence, period.
You can't, you can't beat this thing to death.
You just can't, right? You can't connection.
(29:51):
Connection doesn't live in concepts or declarations,
Michael. Connection lives in shared or
lived moments, moment to moment to moment.
And you can't, you can't think your way back to faith, can't
think back to anything. But again, you have to, you have
to experience yourself honestly.And that could be one breath at
(30:13):
a time, 1 moment at a time, one honest counter in the encounter
with what is So what blocks reconnection?
OK, so I, I noticed that I'm being really cynical and oh man,
I'm figuring out that, that I'vekind of put these blocks in
myself or I'm, I'm disconnecting.
What kinds of shadows may block our attempts at reconnection?
(30:33):
As you say, cynicism, one of those keywords I was thinking of
is doubt. Whether it's doubt in the
divine, doubt in ourselves, or doubt in others.
You know, when we doubt the ability for things to get
better, they often don't. And usually we don't have the
energy to put forward to try to make them better because we've
already made our claim. It's not going to think.
(30:54):
Another thing is things like hate.
When you harbor resentment, it will weigh down on you more than
anything else. It'll make you bitter to the
world, it'll make you jump to anger, and it'll corrupt your
ability to connect with God, with people, with life.
Yeah, One of the things is something that we do with each
(31:17):
other. We talked about this a few
episodes where we try to meet people where they used to be
instead of meeting them where they are, right?
We try to reconnect almost like exactly as it was, you know, and
you talked about this a little bit already, but we try to
measure this connection, how it felt, how it's supposed to be
against a past version of ourselves when prayer felt more
(31:41):
alive or when meaning felt obvious and purpose was easy to
find. And this of course, leads to
frustration, which is a block way it is a is a barrier to
connection. You know, as you said, if we're,
if we're frustrated, how can we connect?
If I'm frustrated with with a person, I can't connect with
them, I have to figure out how to let that go before I can
(32:03):
because honestly, the path back is rarely the same as the path
forward. Would you say yeah?
Well, it's never the same because it's always everything
is a lesson good and bad. I mean, the more you can look at
things as not good and bad but just lessons, the more you can
end up finding the truth. Within all things you can find
(32:23):
growth and. Another one is comparison.
We talk about comparison a lot because it really does.
It really does hinder us. It really does cause us problems
when we're comparing ourselves to anything for any reason.
You cannot measure, you can never measure your inner life
against other people's outward expressions or teachings or or
(32:46):
their experiences. You just can't.
It's not because it's not because you can't kind of get a
sense for who they are or how they feel or, or the things
they're doing. It's just simply because we can
take a hundred, a hundred of youlisteners right now all go out
and look at the sunset and we'regoing to have 100 different
experiences. That's just the way it is.
(33:08):
And and that's the way it was designed.
It's it's supposed to be that way, right?
So we don't all just collectively say, oh, that's
cool. And then, you know, lose our awe
and lose, lose the meaning for what we're supposed to be doing
and what and what's here. Expectation.
Expectation. Yeah, Yeah, that's another one,
right. And I didn't so much see this in
(33:29):
you because I I think you had some, some experience in this.
But almost every time I get a new student and it's time to
learn meditation and they just assume that that it's like being
plugged in. Like remember how you know how
Neil gets plugged in and can learn Kung Fu in 10 minutes?
You think that's what it's like?And it's like, no, it's a lot
(33:49):
more boring than that. You know, for the most part, you
can have have these these reallycool.
Like every once in a while, Heather will share something
that that she's seen in in a meditation.
And it's just like, man, you have the coolest meditations.
Mine aren't that cool. Usually.
I do have cool ones, but you know.
(34:10):
Yeah, I never knew guided meditations, but I remember when
I was first going into practice and doing shadow work and I was
digging deep. I was going through the trenches
of emotions and I was trying to find answers.
And I remember it was like I spent literally 3 hours in front
of a candle just letting my minddo its thing before I had that
(34:31):
aha moment. And it was just a fraction of
what I was trying to understand.But it is.
It is diligent work that is not prompt.
And again, it's like often we wewant that clarity, we want that
result, we want that situation or relationship.
And that is that is not the paththe universe has planned for us.
(34:52):
It will happen and it's due time.
Blessed are those who can, who can sit without expectation,
because for most of us, that's atough one.
It sure was for me, right? I talk about, I've talked about
my struggles about learning meditation and making it a
regular practice on other episodes.
But you know, for those of you who can, who can truly look at
(35:13):
look at this practices with thatcurious mind of a child and not
expect anything, bless you. You are blessed.
Because the rest of us have to have to struggle to get through
it sometimes. And, you know, it's important to
remember also, reconnection doesn't always doesn't usually
(35:33):
begin with some feeling of inspiration or awakening.
It's it's, you know, needs to begin with that allowing to
allow that disconnection to be seen without judgement and, and
to be able to say, hey, this is just where I am right now, but
not allowing that to be your mantra, right?
Acknowledging it and then choosing to stay present anyway.
(35:57):
What are some what are some somepathways back to connection?
What are some things we could do?
Presence, man. I tell you what, again, when I
talk about that whole routine where people just get in and
it's work, come home, dissociate, often people are
refusing to be present with the moment.
Yeah, and I mean, that can be a walk in nature.
(36:17):
But again, a walk in nature. No music, no nothing.
Be involved with the present moment.
Allow your thoughts to come up. Allow yourself to feel what
you've been running from. Allow yourself to question the
life you're leading and if you want change and what you'd have
to do to change. Yeah, one of your favorites,
(36:38):
spending time in nature. Yeah, it almost skills all
things that that ails us sometimes, right?
Or your favorite journaling. Journaling, yes, but, but you
know, I, I, I, I want to be clear here.
When we're, when we're working on reconnection, I want you to
try to journal without using anykind of, you know, spiritual
(36:58):
language. Just speak plainly to yourself,
honestly, plainly about what youfeel, where you feel it, what
you don't feel. Why are you confused or what's
confusing you? What hurts you?
Where does it hurt that? And because a lot of us who've
been in kind of walking these kind of paths for a long time,
(37:22):
we start to put some kind of weird pressure on ourselves to
always sound wise or faithful, right?
And look, truth knows better. If you're not, if you're not,
you're not feeling it. You're not feeling it.
And you don't need to try and lie to yourself because that is
the worst lie you could tell is the one you tell yourself.
You know, truth doesn't need some kind of decoration.
(37:43):
You're not putting you know things on a tree.
Well, I think an important thinghere too is it's you don't have
to have all the answers. It's good to have the questions.
Just let them exist. Allow yourself to go through
life without needing to know everything.
The more you can release your need to control and feel right
about everything, the more you allow yourself to truly see
(38:06):
things as they are and not the way you want them to be.
Yeah, yeah, there's another big step here.
Once we start these practices and once we start to really
honestly look at ourselves, we have to put a lot of trust in
something that we may not be able to see or explain, right?
We got to truck that return, that return to connection
because it like, like we said, it doesn't respond to command or
(38:28):
just try harder or believe harder, Michael.
It responds to a space that we create where we could be honest
with ourselves and without judgement or shame or guilt or
blame. When your body and your heart no
longer feel under pressure to perform or prove something or to
feel something specific, these things start to happen
(38:50):
naturally. Now we got to let go.
We got to, this is where we got to really let go and and just
trust what's happening, right? Yeah, well, again, it's that
unknown. That is, in my opinion, God's
favorite place to meet us is when we're willing to get out of
that comfort zone and go into the unknown.
One of my favorite quotes of alltime this year, it has been like
my trademark quote. The magic you are looking for is
(39:12):
in the work you are avoiding. And what that really means is
it's like we know what we need to do to change our lives, but
we have to be willing to step into that discomfort of the
unknown, to claim what we want, even if that means we mess up,
even if that means we lose, as long as we keep taking that work
(39:32):
and trust. And even if it takes longer than
we wanted to. Yeah, man, people don't like
that one. They don't.
They don't. That's why.
That's why a lot of attraction misses them all the time.
We talked about this before, right?
We should want to do it, then let it go.
That is the correct sequence. Yep, you're putting all the
ingredients together, throwing that cake in the oven, and it's
(39:54):
up to the universe when that cakes going to be done.
Well, stop checking it all the time because you're just letting
the heat out right of the oven. Just just give it some time.
It'll, it'll be done when it's done right.
And this trusting, trusting thisreturn back to this connection,
it's allowing the process to unfold, as we say all the time,
without any rigid timelines. Now you know, it's, it's OK to
(40:18):
have some sort of timeline when,when we're, when we're special,
we're working with goals. Those help us keep focused.
But you don't get to always choose.
You know how and when. And this is where, if it makes
you feel better, this is where awareness is powerful because
you can really look for it. Start kind of trying to be aware
of the of the small subtle shifts, but you can't mess with
(40:41):
them. Leave them alone.
Stop messing. Stop opening the oven, let it
go, let it cook so life doesn't rush.
It takes its time. It's in its own rhythms, right?
And growth happens at a pace that is best for us because we
have to. It meets us where we're at,
right? And that level of healing is
(41:03):
where it's going to meet us. If we're not quite ready, it
could be harmful for us for it to happen.
So it grows at this pace, I'll say it grows at a pace that
safety allows, right? Well, I think man, you brought
the law of attraction earlier and it's like one of those
common misconceptions, right? If you are wanting to build this
dream life, but you're coming atit from a place of lack and not
(41:25):
a place of deserving that life, like that is what you're going
to bring into your life. Often people are trying to
steamroll ahead or be entitled and it's just, it's like we have
to, we got to meet ourselves where we're at and we have to be
able to build that confidence and competence.
(41:48):
It's something that we have to develop over time because when
you come from a place of scarcity and lack and you're
wanting to again, have your dream life, you're going to
start, you're going to have all these issues come up in that
pursuit. That's going to lead to that
cynicism. It's going to lead to that
doubt. The divine meets you where
you're at, but you have to be willing to do the same.
(42:10):
Right, Well said. You have any final thoughts for
our show today? If you're someone who's feeling
stuck in life, especially when it comes to being connected with
God, if you feel like God's abandoned you, you feel like you
just lost that connection. It is always there.
You just have to be able to reach for you have to be willing
to reach for it. Connection lies in presence, but
(42:32):
it also lies in truth. You got to be able to look in
the mirror and ask yourself whatis the part I'm playing in this
life I have now and what steps do I need to change it for what
I do want. And God will meet you, the
universe will meet you. But you have to be able to meet
yourself where you're at and take those steps that feel so
(42:53):
uncomfortable trusting in the unknown and what lies ahead of
you. Well said.
Our affirmations for today. I do not need to force
connection. I allow it to return naturally.
My honesty is a sacred doorway back to the lights.
Even in numbness, I am still connected to something greater
than myself. I trust the quiet ways
(43:14):
reconnection unfold within me. I released rigid expectations
and remain open to what is real now.
Our journal prompts. When did I first start feeling
disconnected and what was happening in my life that at
that time? What beliefs about spirituality
might I be holding that feel heavy, rigid, or inherited
rather than lived? Where do I already feel small
(43:36):
moments of connection in my daily life, even if they don't
look spiritual? What emotions have I been
avoiding that might be asking tobe acknowledged before
reconnection can happen? If connection returned gently
rather than dramatically, what might it feel like in my body?
So look, you may not have actually lost your connection.
It might. This might be the after effects
(43:59):
of an adaptation, adapting to something, adapting to pain or
loss, disappointment, or to moments where openness felt too
costly and or too scary. What looks like spiritual
distance is often spiritual intelligence doing what it
needed to do to keep you functioning.
There is no failure in that. There is wisdom in survival.
(44:22):
Survival's not a bad thing, eventhough we kind of talk a lot
about it, but there is wisdom init.
Reconnection is not something you earn by believing harder or
praying louder or fixed or fixing yourself.
It's not an achievement. It is a remembrance.
It happened when that guard at the gate of our hearts relaxes
(44:46):
and that heart is allowed to open and feel again without
being interrogated, right? This is why proof has never been
the doorway. The moment you demand certainty,
the body tightens, the mind tricks.
The moment you soften, presence returns.
Spiritual connection does not arrive with answers, it arrives
(45:07):
with just being enough. So let this be the reflection
that you carry forward from today's episode.
You don't have to believe harder.
You only need to soften enough to start feeling.
And a very simple call to actionI have today just work on
releasing just one fixed idea about what spirituality is
supposed to look like or feel like.
(45:28):
One image or one expectation or one comparison.
Instead of seeking certainty, createspace, instead of chasing
meaning, allow presence. Let it be a quiet breath or a
still moment or a sense of grounding.
Let those be enough, because they are.
And remember this as you go. The light was never gone was
waiting for you to come home without needing proof in its in
(45:50):
its existence. Want to thank you guys so much
for joining us today. Make sure to check out our
socials, the Youtubes, the Tik toks, the Facebooks.
What am I missing? Spotify.
They're already listening on Spotify.
The all of the above. 'S all the above, all the
podcast places that you love. If we're not there, drop us a
comment and I'll make sure we get there.
(46:11):
If we're not at your favorite spot, but we're at a lot of
those, right? And check out the website, a new
ashla.com. It's constantly adding new
things. We got have you started?
Have you started stuff back up on Sunday?
Nope, starting this Sunday you'll get your next blog though
all. Right, so he's he's dropping
stuff on Sundays. I've got things also hitting on
(46:31):
Wednesdays and Fridays. So it's always constantly being
updated. But we thank you guys so much
for joining us. Michael.
Thank you my friend. Of course, always a pleasure.
And with love and gratitude, addLuchum.
Add luchum.
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