February 27, 2025 • 43 mins
🎶 The Power of Music Education with Legendary Bassist Michael Manson 🎶
Music is more than just sound—it’s a catalyst for success, creativity, and leadership. In this episode of The NEXT BIG THING with Keith D. Terry, we sit down with Michael Manson, an acclaimed bassist, composer, and educator, to explore the transformative power of music in shaping personal growth, business acumen, and community impact.
🎸 Inside This Episode:
✅ How music education builds discipline, leadership, and success in any career
✅ Michael’s journey—from childhood piano lessons to performing with legends like George Duke and Al Jarreau
✅ The alarming decline of music programs and how it’s affecting young talent
✅ The mission behind the Musical Arts Institute and how it’s changing lives in underserved communities
✅ The business of music—how artists can navigate today’s digital landscape and take control of their careers
🎧 Whether you're an entrepreneur, creative professional, or someone passionate about the power of education and music, this episode is packed with insights that go beyond the stage.
👉 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and YouTube @keithdterry
🔔 Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and drop a review to keep the conversation going!
#MusicEducation #MichaelManson #Leadership #Entrepreneurship #Podcast #MusicBusiness #PersonalDevelopment #TheNextBigThing #KeithDTerry
Send us your thought on this episode.
Keith D. Terry and JJaed Productions, LLC produced this episode. www.jjaedproductions.com
Please Follow us on our YouTube channel at www.youtube.com/@keithdterry
For podcast guest recommendations, contact kterry@terryperformancegroup.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast the Next Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry, aconsultant, a coach and a
serial entrepreneur.
The mission here is to teach,inspire and to motivate.
We're going to be talking aboutmusic.
You know, music is more thanjust sound.
It is a force for change, it'sa tool for education, it's a
(00:20):
getaway to success.
From classical composers tojazz legends, music has shaped
societies, broken barriers andtransformed lives.
Yet access to music educationis disappearing across many
communities.
Studies show that learningmusic develops discipline check
this out leadership andcreativity, traits that fuel
(00:42):
success in business and life.
Michael Manson, welcome to theNext Big Thing.
How are you doing, my friend?
I'm doing very well, brother.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's an honor to be here Well it's good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So let's start off by just telling the folks a little
bit about you.
You have such a long CV.
Tell the folks where do youcome from.
Have such a long CV?
Tell the folks where do youcome from.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So you are completely correct and my bio is way too
long, but I hail from the southside of Chicago, and
specifically south suburbs ofChicago and a small little
industrial town called Harvey,illinois.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So that's where it all started, but born in Chicago
, but essentially the fire gotlit in Harvey.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, so what was the real connection?
How did it start?
Tell us how you ended up amusician.
Is there a journey?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So there was back in that time it was required in our
house that we all the kids takepiano.
So really, my mother had theforesight to know that music was
a fundamental thing that weneeded to have and, against my
better judgment, I had to takepiano.
I wanted to play baseball andfootball, but it was required
(02:06):
that we take music.
So we take piano and so I wastaking piano.
But it just so happens, at thepiano we went to the piano
teacher's house and there was abass guitar instrument there and
I kept begging my mother, youknow to, you know, I don't want
to play this piano thing, I wantto play that thing over in the
corner, the, the bass.
(02:26):
And uh, she's.
So she acquiesces and and shesaid, okay, if you keep taking
piano, I'll get you that, thatbass.
And uh, that's how the journeystarted.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Now did you take piano lessons?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I did.
Oh, wow, so you could readActually my mother-in-law.
Interesting fact mymother-in-law, my wife's mother,
was my first piano teacher.
Oh my yeah.
So I started out at the age ofnine and had to get it done,
okay, so let's navigate fromthere.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So when did you know music was a calling?
Because you've been on stagewith some of the biggest artists
in the world.
This is true.
This is true.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So I knew it was a calling, which is kind of full
circle.
Why I started this music school?
Because back in my youngeryears, when I started playing
the bass, there was a teacherthat was encouraging, who became
my mentor my first mentor, Ishould say and he showed a real
(03:35):
interest in me and he was thefirst one to tell me that look,
mike, you could do this for aliving.
You're that talented.
And he was the one who got meinto summer camp.
He was the one who my parentsdidn't really know much about
music, aside from giving mepiano lessons.
They didn't really know thatmuch about music.
So he convinced my parents thatmusic could be an integral part
(03:59):
of my life, and so he got meinto summer camp, got me into
extracurricular activities, gotme into all-state band and he
lit the fire.
He gave in seventh grade.
He gave me college brochuresand said you can go here, you
can go here, you can go here andthey will pay for you Now you
(04:21):
started out.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I thought you started reading your bio.
Sounds like you started out inguitar, but you actually started
out in piano.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I started out on piano but at the same time my
mother got my big brother aguitar and got me a bass.
Now I wanted to be like my bigbrother, so I started out with
that guitar.
I was like, oh, I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do this, I'm
going to do this.
And then I picked up bass and Iwas playing all these guitar
(04:54):
melodies on my bass.
So I was playing Jimi Hendrixand Led Zeppelin and all these
rock things, because my brotherwas really into rock and I
started playing that on my bassand he was like you really can
play this bass.
So that's where it took off.
Okay, but I'm a product of aschool band.
That's just real Okay.
(05:14):
So the absence of thoseprograms now is my catalyst to
try to capture it and get itback, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So we're going to get into that, we're going to.
We're going to get into that,we're going to have plenty of
time to get into that.
But I want to meander a littlebit here about, I mean, clearly,
music is a passion for you, anddo you sing?
No, I try, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I let you know a little.
Later I'll tell you about themost embarrassing moment that is
.
That is still out on YouTubewhere I am singing Okay, and I
can't speak.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, so now, as you were navigating your career, you
learned how to play.
Tell us about your biggestmoment that got you to become a
major recordings artist.
I mean, when did that happen?
What's that journey like?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So just kind of full circle.
When I was back startingplaying bass, I used to put on
records by Al Jarreau, put onrecords by George Shute, put on
records, and in my littlebasement in Harvey, illinois, I
used to practice and want to belike Stanley Clark, want to be
(06:21):
like those guys.
And then I had a bunch ofmusical experiences that went
before this.
But in 1997 is when I metGeorge, is when I met Kirk
Whalum, when I met Al Jarreau,joe Sapo, shah Khan, all these
people, and so that's whenthings kind of went full circle
(06:42):
and I was literally on stagewith the people I used to dream
about Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wow, pretty impressive.
And I guess was there a momentwhen you knew you belong.
Because you know, sometimeswhen it's your first time you're
like, oh, you might be a little, you might be a little
intimidated.
When did the intimidation turnto total confidence?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And that intimidation was real, like really real.
But I want to say around August2001, 2000, 2002, really really
long post on Facebook about myinteractions with George Duke.
That's the day that he passedaway in 2013.
(07:32):
I didn't know that and reallyrecount the time when I knew I
had arrived.
We had been touring Europe andby that time I had a master's
degree in music and studiedmusic, history and that type of
thing, right, and I was inVienna, austria, about to play
(07:53):
with Chaka Khan, george Duke andAl Jarreau, and we were about
to do the Vienna Opera House ohwow, and I was sitting in the
hotel night before the concert.
Actually, I was sitting not inthe hotel but on the street just
having a glass of wine, andthen George comes out and joins
me and I was like this issurreal, because I'm doing all
(08:16):
the stuff that I read about itin my history books.
And I mean I'd read about allthese things that are happening
in Vienna.
I had read about Chaka.
I are happening in vienna.
I had read about shock.
I had read, you know, I had allthis stuff in my head and I
said, okay, I'm actually doingthe stuff that I read about,
okay, and that was surreal forme and that was like I knew that
(08:39):
I had arrived at that pointokay.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So now let's, let's, let, let's, let's turn.
You know, many, many peoplethink that you know, talent is
the only thing that makes yousuccessful in the music industry
.
Um, and we're talking cause we,you know.
I want to shift it a little bitto the business.
At what point did you pivot orhave an understanding?
I'm a bad-ass bass player.
(09:03):
I can hold my own, but there'sa whole nother world to this in
terms of making money.
Did it come intuitively or wasthere something that you had to
do to learn that side of thebusiness?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, I'm a I am a student of of the hard knocks
university.
Uh um, it just so happened Igot in into the recording aspect
of music, aside from doing itwith other people.
My own projects happened ataround 2000 2001, and I was
(09:40):
encouraged by George, and I wasencouraged by this guy, Brian
Culberson love him too and SteveCole as well.
And I was encouraged by Georgeand I was encouraged by this guy
, brian Culberson Love him tooand Steve Cole as well to do my
own record.
And so I actually got signed bya record label it was in 2001.
And it was a Chicago-basedlabel and I was one of their
(10:01):
first artists.
And because I was one of theirfirst artists, and because I was
one of their first artists,they spent a lot of money on me,
marketing and doing a lot ofthings for me.
And CDs were still a thing then, and I sold a lot of CDs, okay,
realizing that I didn't makethat much money, but my name got
(10:23):
out there Gotcha, and thatrecord company actually went
bankrupt, okay, and I had to getmy master's back.
Okay, that was the beginning ofthe business side of me, gotcha
, because I knew I could donothing monetarily without
ownership of my own music.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Oh, you know I want to peel the onion back on that,
but before I go to the masters,you just said a lot of folks
like Brian Culberson and SteveCole suggest that you do an
album.
What's the thinking behind thatstatement?
Is it because you createcontent, create content.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Okay, you own your map.
I mean, they literally weresaying to me hey, man, you have
enough talent to do this byyourself.
I was really content to just bein the background bass player.
I was there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Well, can you make a living being a background
musician?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
You absolutely can, okay, you absolutely can, but to
me real wealth and realbusiness comes from ownership of
your own music.
Okay, real wealth and realbusiness comes from ownership of
your own music and being ableto market and sell your own
music that continues to pay youlong after the music has died
down.
Usually, there's a three monthto four month window where your
(11:43):
music is really hot and butspecifically in the genre that
I'm in, you can and I'm stillgetting royalties from music
that I did 25 years ago.
Well, that's excellent.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Or 23 years ago, and that's where the masters comes
in.
So, if you don't mind, let'stell us about that.
So you created your first album, but you did not own your
masters.
I did not own them.
Was that a business mistake, oris this just?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
No, it was the entryway.
It was what I had to do to getin Gotcha, and so they made
money off of me.
So I signed to a label and theyinvested in me and I made them
money.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
They went back bankrupt.
I had to go through at least ayear or a year and a half
litigation legally to get mymaster's back.
Once I did that, that wasnmaterial and leased my masters
to a record company.
And then, you know, for acouple of years or so and then
(12:53):
once the lease was over, thenthe rights and all the ownership
of the masters came back to me.
So I would lease them and doanother record.
Then after two years they comeback to me lease, do another
record.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Is that how it should be, or is that how it is now?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I don't know if it should be.
No, the model has changed now,so now you do not need a record
company period.
I'm just a witness of thatmyself, because I own my own
record label Okay good,Absolutely brilliant.
So the only thing that a recordlabel does that you can't do for
(13:34):
yourself right now, is justmarket you.
So the only thing they're goingto do is make sure that the
people that they know now theirdatabase and their marketing
base probably substantiallylarger than any one person, but
they just market.
They do the same thing to alarger database, they just
(13:56):
market.
You can get on YouTube henceyour podcast.
You can get on Spotify.
You can get on all thesestreaming platforms now and do
it yourself, gotcha, and receiveall the royalties Gotcha,
gotcha.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And so your talent took you to the world, and I
want to meander now to youcoming back to Chicago.
Or did you ever leave Chicago?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I never left Chicago, but I spent, so I would spend
so much time in LA.
I was almost thought of as anative Okay, okay, but no, I
never.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, it's interesting why.
Why is LA the music hub, or isthat?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Certainly.
Yeah, there's a.
Well, I don't know if this isstill true now, but certainly,
uh, covid LA was just bustling.
There were so manyopportunities and you almost had
to be there, so that you'd be aphone call away from an
opportunity, gotcha, gotcha.
But it just so happened thatthere were a number of people
(15:00):
who had faith in me to a pointwhere I did not have to be there
and I would just get on aflight and travel three and a
half hours and be there and takeadvantage of it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Now, michael, I'm curious.
So, as a musically trainedbassist, when people call you
I've played guitar before, butI'm curious, when people call,
are you reading the music fromthe notes or is it a feel, or
what's happening in the session?
I'm just curious.
Yes, take us all of the above.
(15:32):
So some of them are justcreative sessions, huh.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Correct, no, so that's it.
Sessions huh, correct, no, sothat's it.
I mean and there's still anargument out there now but there
are some very, very ubertalented musicians out there who
don't know how to readtraditional music at all and
make a really good living.
But I could safely say for myjourney, every great opportunity
(16:01):
that I've had, it's because Iwas trained and I know how to
read traditional music.
Wow, and that's a greatopportunity.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So this is, I hope, an interesting question for you.
Would you advise your youngstudents gifted?
Because I had a son who couldhear and play it?
Piano resisted reading.
Is it better to learn how toread music very well or not?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You should have both talents.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You should have the discipline enough to learn the
language of the written and thenlearn the language of the audio
.
Okay, the caveat is that ifyou're only doing just by ear,
or by rope, as it were, thenthere is a ceiling.
There is only so far you can go, specifically those recorded
(16:57):
sessions that you were aptlytalking about.
When you get into the studio.
Time is money and they don'thave time for you to sit there
and learn how learn the songs.
You have to.
You have to go in there andread it and be done.
They're not waiting on you.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
You know, musicians come into the studio, don't know
how to, don't know how to readit, and say, hey, can you play
it one time?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
nobody has time for that, because time is money got
you got you well, so then dothey send you the music
beforehand so you can practiceor no?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
yes, wow, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't
okay, sometimes they're makingchanges in the music five
minutes before you get there.
You know what I mean.
So again, there's argumentsback and forth.
You know, seemingly noweverybody has a studio but you
could send them files and peoplecould work on them and they
(17:55):
don't necessarily have to.
But if somebody the businessside of that if somebody sends
me files, okay, and I charge bythe hour, I'm going to charge
them for learning this song.
If you send me files or a song,I should say and you've got the
written music, you knock it outin 10-15 minutes and I don't
charge you anymore, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But if you send me a song, say, hey, figure this out
and send me files, yeah, I'mgonna charge you for, know, and
that's so, cause I want totransition a little bit to still
staying on the business sidebefore we get into talking about
the kids at the musical artInstitute is as you were
learning the business, what canyou?
How can you describe thedifferences between when you
(18:40):
were younger than than what'shappening now?
Cause things are very differentnow with AI, with Spotify,
apple, I mean, how has the musicbusiness side changed?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I see it this way and I don't see myself as any less
talented or any more talentedthan anybody else.
I'm just different.
I'm just me right.
That said, I've made thebusiness decision to invest in
myself and then receive thereturn on investment.
I want to say that most peoplethere are tons of talented
(19:18):
musicians who lack the impetus,the self-awareness of where you
are and to invest in themselvesand then market yourselves on
the business side to get areturn on investment.
Most not most, but a lot ofmusicians are looking to get
shows by some artists, to get apaycheck, get a good paycheck,
(19:42):
that type of thing.
But from an entrepreneurialside, just like any other
entrepreneurial, you have toinvest and you have to invest
wisely.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And what do you mean?
So peel back the onion on that.
When you say invest, you mean Idon't think you're talking just
equipment.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
No, not at all.
What do you mean, in fact?
What is the thing that sells inmusic?
The thing that sells in musicis songs, and yourself right.
So I write songs.
I'm actually working on a newproject right now.
I'm investing a lot of money inpeople recording songs or
recording tracks on my songs.
(20:21):
I'm going to finish the songthis week and I'm going to put
it out there in the marketplace.
I'm going to get it on radioeverywhere.
I'm going to put it on everyplace where music is sold.
I'm going to put it on everyplace where music is streamed
and two quarters from now, Iwill start to receive residual
(20:42):
royalties.
Oh is it.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You mathematically have it down to a science, don't
you?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's true.
Two quarters, two quarters Intwo quarters.
I will start to see so I keeptrack of all my expenses, so
that I always pay attention tomy, and I'm always looking for
28% to 34% profit margin, okay,of whatever I spent.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Well, in the stock market that's a pretty good
return.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's a pretty good return.
Especially, you can keep thatgoing in perpetuity too.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Wow, and if the song is good enough, like some of my
songs have been, they'll keepcoming.
Those royalties will keepcoming over years and sometimes
decades.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So let's talk domestically versus
international.
Is there a different way tooperate once you leave the
shores of the United States, oris this return a global return?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It's a global return and they are separate.
But this return a global return.
It's a global return and theyare separate, but it's a global
return.
I've tapped into theinternational market some, but
not nearly as much as I want to,but most of my returns come in
from domestic.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Now, with the emergence of AI and some of the
other things, of AI and some ofthe other things, what do you
think is what's going to be theimpact on the industry and
what's going to be the impact onthe business?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think, to be determined on the industry, and
here's why we just don't knowhow far AI is going to take over
, as it were, and to what extentit will be allowed to take over
, as it were, and to what extentit will be allowed to take over
.
I happen to be a purist insaying that there will always be
a human element that can beundeniable, I think the music
(22:38):
that I write.
I want to say, I don't know ifit's true or not, but I want to
say that the music I write fromthe heart reaches the heart of a
human.
See, I see, and my definitionof art is that the music that I
write and the art that I createenhances the quality of life of
(23:01):
those who listen, and so I wantto say that that can't be
replaced.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Is there a genre that you like best?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I don't know if I can say that either.
I know from a business model.
My genre is contemporary jazz.
Whether it's turntable, smokejazz, I don't know if I agree
with you.
That's my favorite, you know.
But I like contemporary jazz.
But I studied classical music.
My degrees are in classicalmusic.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Are they Really Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, my master's degree from Northwestern is in
classical orchestra conducting.
Wow, okay, I have a great lovefor classical music and of
course I'm a lover of gospelmusic as well, but so I don't
know if I can say I have afavorite.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't think I have one music as well, but so I
don't know if I can say I have afavorite.
I don't think I have one.
So you know, I want to get intothe kids now.
But I have one questionbeforehand, and it's so when you
hear the new music happening bythe new kids coming out now,
any thoughts on what you arehearing?
Do you like it, do you not?
For the?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
most part.
I like it because I believekids are expressing themselves
in the environment that they arein.
They're expressing themselvesas they see themselves at this
moment and I think every artistshould be allowed to do that.
My trepidation is that, becauseof some of the lack of
fundamental music training, someof it is pretty elementary,
(24:28):
shall we say, and some of it canbe quite vulgar and some of you
know, according to our socialstandards.
But they still should beallowed to express themselves as
part of their environment,where they are in their artistic
journey in life.
And that's everybody.
(24:49):
I know I don't write music, Iknow I don't play music like I
did when I was 20 years old, 30years old I'm older.
Now I express myselfdifferently.
I see, I see, I see where youare in your journey, in your
(25:27):
life's journey, and this is, youknow, kind of a snapshot Every
song is a snapshot of where theartist is at that time.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, and so how did you get from London to Chicago?
How did you get from London tothe Musical Arts Institute?
How did that gem of a placestart?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, I was portraying record deals one time
and uh, I, I, uh, uh.
I had just started therecording journey and I think I
was between my first record orthe second record, or maybe it
was one of the time when I waslitigating, um, getting my
(26:03):
master's back.
But I taught taught for a CPSschool, chicago Public School,
for a year, basically After Ireceived my master's degree back
in the early 80s, before Istarted touring and stuff like
that.
I taught in north suburbanschools very fluid, mostly
(26:23):
Caucasian demographic, and thenthat year I had taught in
Chicago Public Schools and thedemographic was mostly
African-American, limitedresources, but there was this
idea, or the light bulb momentthat happened is that our kids,
(26:44):
even through the lack ofresources, are no less talented
than any of these affluent kids.
What's missing?
Resources, mentorship,exploitation and motivation.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Well said, and I get you Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
So that was the impotence beyond starting school
.
That was like we've got to dothis and we've got to do this,
and we've got to do it in thetargeted demographic
neighborhood that we have in itright now so that we can bring
those north suburban resourcesto the south side of Chicago.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Because you know, I wonder, does CPS, have they
completely eliminated music?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
No, they haven't.
That's a?
And what happened when I wasthere, because I was a music
teacher, right.
So oddly enough I was part oftheir resources, right.
But there were a number of kidsI mean, we were exposing music
to everybody but there were anumber of kids who expressed
immense talent but because ofthe social fabric of the school
(27:51):
and the school system, that theyhad no way to express it
without serious socialconsequences.
So the idea was to have a placethat those, you know, those
talents, those immense talents,could have a chance to be
expressed without the socialmores that accompany it, in CPS
(28:14):
schools, gotcha.
So that was the beginning.
That said, those resources,like I said, chicago Public
Schools has not totally gottenaway from arts education, but it
is certainly very, very limited.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Very limited.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's the impotence behind our school and our
initiative.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, so tell us a little bit about the Musical Art
Institute.
When did you start?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So this is our 14th year in and I'm very, very
excited that we run two programs.
One is called the Chicago MusicReach Program, in which we go
into those CBS schools and theYMCA and Metro Family Services
and where there is no music, andwe go in there and expose those
(29:03):
kids to music.
So on average we reach about2,300 kids a week with music
education where there wasn't any.
So that's our Chicago MusicReach program.
We employ 22 teachers and astaff of six and these teachers,
who are basically musicians inthe marketplace but they go in
(29:27):
and believe in the same missionthat we have and they go in and
expose our children to musichave and they go in and expose
our children to music.
And then we have our musicconservatory program in which we
expose about well those kidsthat come out of the Chicago
Music Reach program and need aplace to really really express
(29:49):
their talent on college prep,pre-professional level.
We have about 92 kids that arein our environment.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Now, when you say exposed, are you teaching them
to read or and are they pickingan instrument to play?
And between the instruments toplay, how do you guide a child
on which one to play?
That's I'm, I'm, I'm fascinatedwith that.
That walk, I mean.
(30:18):
I remember, you know, theanalogy for me is when I went
out for baseball sorry folks, Ijust want to deviate for a
minute.
I didn't know which position toplay and luckily I went out
done, did a lot of differentthings that became a pitcher, um
and so.
But I also play guitar and Ilove guitar.
But when I think back, I wouldlove to learn how to play drums.
(30:40):
So a young kid comes in in yourREACH program.
How do you guys guide?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
them, all right.
So there are a couple of things.
We have a general music programwhich just kind of gives an
overview, and then some of theschools and some of the grades
have specific instruments thatwe offer, right.
And if the kid wants to learnhow to play something else, they
can go to tell the teacher.
Or they can indicate to theteacher hey, I would like to
(31:09):
learn something else.
What does our teacher do?
Our teacher points them towardsour music conservatory program,
where they're allowed to comein and try out just about
everything, wow, and see whatreally, really excites them,
right.
And then there's another partof that too, specifically for
(31:30):
some of our young, young kidsOnce they come to the
conservatory, we try to get theparents involved, right.
Okay, the biggest teacher andthe biggest motivator are not
the teachers, it's the parents.
It's the parents.
What six-year-old kid has avision for their lives?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
That's a good point.
I mean, you know, I'm sure theyhave a vision, but it's
short-lived, it's short-lived.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
It's like you know you see what you like and you
get excited about it and thatcould change, you know, by the
next piece of candy that's given.
You know that, you know thosethings change and so parents
need to have the foresight Right.
Say, I see my kid on the pianoat page at age 13 in somebody's
(32:16):
big church or somebody's concertstage or whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So no, even that could change.
Well, you know.
Here's my next question.
You are both a performer and aneducator and you know how, how.
How do they complement eachother as you've navigated the
creation of the Musical ArtsInstitute?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
How do they collaborate?
All right, so I mean from avery superficial level.
I get up every morning with therealization I get to share
music with both young and oldEvery day.
Okay, that's a huge, huge deal.
That said, because and I'm alittle squeamish about this my
(32:59):
board of directors are trying toget me out of this because I've
had so much success, I want ourkids to see that somebody who's
studying music and it's goalsabout it you know the
traditional way, as it were canhave success and make a living
at it and have some degree ofstardom.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
And you're a living walking example that they can
look towards, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
So I mean, I've got a jazz ensemble that if I didn't
have the stature that I do have,I don't know if they would.
I mean, I think they wouldfollow me, but they're like dude
, I want to go to everythingthat you're doing.
That's the way they feel aboutit.
They want to just follow mearound and just glean, and I'm
here for it.
(33:47):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Well, you know, I'm going to take a minute here to
give you a commercial there.
I'm going to take a minute hereto give you a commercial.
There are two things that I'vebeen to that you've done.
One I went out to Smooth Jazzout in Lowe's by El Hair and saw
you Phenomenal show.
I really, really enjoyed myself.
And then I also went to theMusical Arts Institute Gala that
you guys had last year, whereJeffrey Osborne was there and
(34:09):
man, did I have a good time?
And you got on stage and it was.
I mean, every artist that gotup there, every band that got up
there, was absolutelyphenomenal.
The venue itself was superb.
I mean to have you speak tofolks that might be thinking
(34:35):
about music as a, as a.
I mean I see it as more thanjust a play toy, but it has
impacted the way I think aboutlife and business and my year
stuff.
What's the future?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Well, I think you you mentioned this before that even
you know, uh, even if you don'tstudy music on a full-time
basis, you don't want to becomea musician, you want to become a
doctor or something like thatthe study of music and the
benefits there are so vast.
You mentioned Condoleezza Riceand her problem-solving skills.
Yes, the study of musicenhances your problem-solving
(35:11):
skills.
Being able to break somethingdown, break a problem down, your
discipline skills, timemanagement skills, being able to
work as a team collaborativelyyeah, all of those things make a
difference and whether you windup on the stage at Carnegie
Hall or if you wind up in yourbasement as you go to your job,
(35:33):
those skills transfer All ofthem.
So I encourage all the parentsspecifically for them to get
their kids into music so thatthey have those skills that they
transfer over.
I always like to say that oneof my favorite Bay students is
now going into chemicalengineering.
(35:54):
He's getting a doctorate inchemical engineering and
studying at University ofChicago.
Okay, but he plays bass.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Those skills transferred over.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And so, as you look into the future, you're seeing
this.
You don't know where AI isgoing to fit.
You don't know where AI isgoing to fit Any other comments
you may have about what you seecoming down the pipe, because
you're not done with performing.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
You got a whole lot more.
There's a whole lot more.
I think AI will make some ofthe menial tasks a lot easier.
I don't know if it'll ever takeover.
I mean and that said, or thatcan be said about anything like
even acting, or, you know, justabout anything specifically in
arts Will we ever go to atheater and see holograms
(36:45):
performing as opposed to actors?
We don't know.
But my point is that, even withall that change happening, I
still think there will be spacefor humans doing music.
And the business model haschanged and you know, there are
still major labels that makemoney off of young artists who
(37:06):
just want to get famous, as itwere, but by and large, people
are wising up and becoming theirown company and making their
own money.
I just saw, I just saw a duo onYouTube.
They've got thousands offollowers and they don't have a
record deal, but yet they go onthe YouTube and make these
(37:28):
videos and they've got thousandsof followers, thousands of
views, and they make their moneythat way.
So my point is that it'sevolving.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's interesting.
A few more questions.
You still have a few moreminutes.
Yeah, sure, okay, so it'sinteresting.
You talked about the businessof it.
I remember Prince being unhappybecause he didn't have his
master's and he refused to do afew things.
I recently went to a StevieWonder concert and I think
Stevie was having some issueswith some of his earlier work.
(38:00):
I could be wrong.
Tony Braxton's another one, andso you just mentioned there are
artists, there are still musicshops or music companies out
there, recording companies outthere, still music shops or
music companies out there,recording companies out there,
and these young artists want tobe famous.
Are you seeing some of thelarger stars make mistakes?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
That they don't own their masters.
They're famous, but they don'town their work Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Can you say a little bit?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
more about that.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I think it is always a mistake for anyone to
relinquish their intellectualproperty.
You should always have controlof your likeness, your recorded
master, because that's how youmake money.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Are there some artists that you can name that
are doing that?
Now I could, just being curious.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
But I think about all those people who were involved
with American Idol right whenthey got on right, they had to
sign long-term contracts, thatanything that they produce,
their image, their likeness, allof that was owned by American
Idol and they could not makemoney for years off of their.
(39:16):
And that's because, you know,American Idol was investing a
lot of money.
They wanted to see a return ontheir investment, right?
So if a guy like Ruben Sutteror you know, or people like that
, wanted to do other things, youknow, A, they had to get
(39:38):
permission.
B, they probably weren't theyhad to give up their royalties
and pay them first.
Wow, they didn't receive anymonies at all.
Okay, okay, wow, so my point is,is that you know if you're
going to do something now.
Ruben Studdard is famousbecause of American Idol and
he'd be just another guy who'dsing without them, right?
(39:58):
So that's just one example.
There's thousands of thoseactors.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
You know I can argue differently, right?
I mean absolutely.
Yes, he's Ruben Studdard,fantasia Clay Aikman, jennifer
Hudson, a lot of them.
But you had to have the talentto begin with.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
You had to have the talent to begin with, how many
people do we know that havetalent, that are working at?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
McDonald's Great pushback.
You know.
Great, great, great.
Oh, you know that's in therecording studio and on the
sports field as well.
Absolutely Well, michael, Ijust want to thank you for this,
and I just have one finalquestion, and that is when you
think of music, it seems to methat singers get famous quicker
(40:45):
than musicians.
And my wife and I have a debatewhen I hear a new song.
I don't know, you might thinkI'm crazy, but when I listen to
a song, I'm actually listeningto the music and I'm not
necessarily listening to thelyrics.
She will listen to the lyricsand not listen to the music.
And so, you know, when I flip,like you know, a whole lot of
(41:08):
songs are out here.
People are falling in love withthe lyrics.
How do you look at that?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
That is so funny.
All right, so we're about toembark upon Valentine's Day,
right?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
My wife is going to kill me.
But there is a gender gap.
Women want to hear what you'resaying to them, guys don't care
so much.
So it's the gender thing.
Okay, guys can get intocontemporary jazz where you
don't have a lyric and again,I'm being very stereotypical
(41:45):
because it's not black and whitebut by and large, the guys will
get into the music and who'splaying and what's going on with
the music, and the ladies arelike, well, what are they saying
?
Okay, okay, I'm going to goabout this as soon as my wife
and children are awake.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Well, michael, I just want tothank you for agreeing to join
me on my podcast.
It's been a delightfulconversation.
Yes, sir, and I don't know ifyou have any parting words you
want to say to my listeners, butI'll let you have the mic right
now.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Well, I would say if you're playing music, keep
playing your music, because it'sso therapeutic and it's so
light giving.
If you're just enjoying themusic, keep enjoying the music,
because it enhances your qualityof life.
We're better humans because ofarts and music, so keep
listening.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Okay.
Well, with that, michael, Ijust want to say thank you very
much.
Yes, sir, ladies and gentlemen,you've listened to Michael
Manson.
He's a legendary bassist.
Please go and buy his albumsthat are out there and please
follow them and visit them.
Their website is the MusicalArts Institute in Chicago,
illinois.
Michael, great conversation.
(42:56):
You shared wisdom that extendsfar beyond music, whether it's
about discipline, businessleadership.
I just love the whole concept,the whole conversation we had.
I have one call to action formy listeners, and that is that
you follow me on my YouTubechannel at Keith D Terry and
please go and check out theMusical Arts Institute.
(43:18):
Thanks for listening to theNext Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry.
If you've enjoyed this episodeand you'd like to support this
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my
YouTube channel at Keith D Terry.
(43:40):
If you want to recommend aguest, please email me at info
at terryperformancegroupcom.
This has been produced by yourhost and Jade Productions.
Welcome to the podcast the Next Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry, aconsultant, a coach and a
serial entrepreneur.
The mission here is to teach,inspire and to motivate.
We're going to be talking aboutmusic.
You know, music is more thanjust sound.
It is a force for change, it'sa tool for education, it's a
(00:20):
getaway to success.
From classical composers tojazz legends, music has shaped
societies, broken barriers andtransformed lives.
Yet access to music educationis disappearing across many
communities.
Studies show that learningmusic develops discipline check
this out leadership andcreativity, traits that fuel
(00:42):
success in business and life.
Michael Manson, welcome to theNext Big Thing.
How are you doing, my friend?
I'm doing very well, brother.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's an honor to be here Well it's good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So let's start off by just telling the folks a little
bit about you.
You have such a long CV.
Tell the folks where do youcome from.
Have such a long CV?
Tell the folks where do youcome from.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So you are completely correct and my bio is way too
long, but I hail from the southside of Chicago, and
specifically south suburbs ofChicago and a small little
industrial town called Harvey,illinois.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So that's where it all started, but born in Chicago
, but essentially the fire gotlit in Harvey.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Okay, so what was the real connection?
How did it start?
Tell us how you ended up amusician.
Is there a journey?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So there was back in that time it was required in our
house that we all the kids takepiano.
So really, my mother had theforesight to know that music was
a fundamental thing that weneeded to have and, against my
better judgment, I had to takepiano.
I wanted to play baseball andfootball, but it was required
(02:06):
that we take music.
So we take piano and so I wastaking piano.
But it just so happens, at thepiano we went to the piano
teacher's house and there was abass guitar instrument there and
I kept begging my mother, youknow to, you know, I don't want
to play this piano thing, I wantto play that thing over in the
corner, the, the bass.
(02:26):
And uh, she's.
So she acquiesces and and shesaid, okay, if you keep taking
piano, I'll get you that, thatbass.
And uh, that's how the journeystarted.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Now did you take piano lessons?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I did.
Oh, wow, so you could readActually my mother-in-law.
Interesting fact mymother-in-law, my wife's mother,
was my first piano teacher.
Oh my yeah.
So I started out at the age ofnine and had to get it done,
okay, so let's navigate fromthere.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So when did you know music was a calling?
Because you've been on stagewith some of the biggest artists
in the world.
This is true.
This is true.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So I knew it was a calling, which is kind of full
circle.
Why I started this music school?
Because back in my youngeryears, when I started playing
the bass, there was a teacherthat was encouraging, who became
my mentor my first mentor, Ishould say and he showed a real
(03:35):
interest in me and he was thefirst one to tell me that look,
mike, you could do this for aliving.
You're that talented.
And he was the one who got meinto summer camp.
He was the one who my parentsdidn't really know much about
music, aside from giving mepiano lessons.
They didn't really know thatmuch about music.
So he convinced my parents thatmusic could be an integral part
(03:59):
of my life, and so he got meinto summer camp, got me into
extracurricular activities, gotme into all-state band and he
lit the fire.
He gave in seventh grade.
He gave me college brochuresand said you can go here, you
can go here, you can go here andthey will pay for you Now you
(04:21):
started out.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I thought you started reading your bio.
Sounds like you started out inguitar, but you actually started
out in piano.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I started out on piano but at the same time my
mother got my big brother aguitar and got me a bass.
Now I wanted to be like my bigbrother, so I started out with
that guitar.
I was like, oh, I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do this, I'm
going to do this.
And then I picked up bass and Iwas playing all these guitar
(04:54):
melodies on my bass.
So I was playing Jimi Hendrixand Led Zeppelin and all these
rock things, because my brotherwas really into rock and I
started playing that on my bassand he was like you really can
play this bass.
So that's where it took off.
Okay, but I'm a product of aschool band.
That's just real Okay.
(05:14):
So the absence of thoseprograms now is my catalyst to
try to capture it and get itback, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So we're going to get into that, we're going to.
We're going to get into that,we're going to have plenty of
time to get into that.
But I want to meander a littlebit here about, I mean, clearly,
music is a passion for you, anddo you sing?
No, I try, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I let you know a little.
Later I'll tell you about themost embarrassing moment that is
.
That is still out on YouTubewhere I am singing Okay, and I
can't speak.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, so now, as you were navigating your career, you
learned how to play.
Tell us about your biggestmoment that got you to become a
major recordings artist.
I mean, when did that happen?
What's that journey like?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So just kind of full circle.
When I was back startingplaying bass, I used to put on
records by Al Jarreau, put onrecords by George Shute, put on
records, and in my littlebasement in Harvey, illinois, I
used to practice and want to belike Stanley Clark, want to be
(06:21):
like those guys.
And then I had a bunch ofmusical experiences that went
before this.
But in 1997 is when I metGeorge, is when I met Kirk
Whalum, when I met Al Jarreau,joe Sapo, shah Khan, all these
people, and so that's whenthings kind of went full circle
(06:42):
and I was literally on stagewith the people I used to dream
about Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wow, pretty impressive.
And I guess was there a momentwhen you knew you belong.
Because you know, sometimeswhen it's your first time you're
like, oh, you might be a little, you might be a little
intimidated.
When did the intimidation turnto total confidence?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And that intimidation was real, like really real.
But I want to say around August2001, 2000, 2002, really really
long post on Facebook about myinteractions with George Duke.
That's the day that he passedaway in 2013.
(07:32):
I didn't know that and reallyrecount the time when I knew I
had arrived.
We had been touring Europe andby that time I had a master's
degree in music and studiedmusic, history and that type of
thing, right, and I was inVienna, austria, about to play
(07:53):
with Chaka Khan, george Duke andAl Jarreau, and we were about
to do the Vienna Opera House ohwow, and I was sitting in the
hotel night before the concert.
Actually, I was sitting not inthe hotel but on the street just
having a glass of wine, andthen George comes out and joins
me and I was like this issurreal, because I'm doing all
(08:16):
the stuff that I read about itin my history books.
And I mean I'd read about allthese things that are happening
in Vienna.
I had read about Chaka.
I are happening in vienna.
I had read about shock.
I had read, you know, I had allthis stuff in my head and I
said, okay, I'm actually doingthe stuff that I read about,
okay, and that was surreal forme and that was like I knew that
(08:39):
I had arrived at that pointokay.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So now let's, let's, let, let's, let's turn.
You know, many, many peoplethink that you know, talent is
the only thing that makes yousuccessful in the music industry
.
Um, and we're talking cause we,you know.
I want to shift it a little bitto the business.
At what point did you pivot orhave an understanding?
I'm a bad-ass bass player.
(09:03):
I can hold my own, but there'sa whole nother world to this in
terms of making money.
Did it come intuitively or wasthere something that you had to
do to learn that side of thebusiness?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, I'm a I am a student of of the hard knocks
university.
Uh um, it just so happened Igot in into the recording aspect
of music, aside from doing itwith other people.
My own projects happened ataround 2000 2001, and I was
(09:40):
encouraged by George, and I wasencouraged by this guy, Brian
Culberson love him too and SteveCole as well.
And I was encouraged by Georgeand I was encouraged by this guy
, brian Culberson Love him tooand Steve Cole as well to do my
own record.
And so I actually got signed bya record label it was in 2001.
And it was a Chicago-basedlabel and I was one of their
(10:01):
first artists.
And because I was one of theirfirst artists, and because I was
one of their first artists,they spent a lot of money on me,
marketing and doing a lot ofthings for me.
And CDs were still a thing then, and I sold a lot of CDs, okay,
realizing that I didn't makethat much money, but my name got
(10:23):
out there Gotcha, and thatrecord company actually went
bankrupt, okay, and I had to getmy master's back.
Okay, that was the beginning ofthe business side of me, gotcha
, because I knew I could donothing monetarily without
ownership of my own music.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Oh, you know I want to peel the onion back on that,
but before I go to the masters,you just said a lot of folks
like Brian Culberson and SteveCole suggest that you do an
album.
What's the thinking behind thatstatement?
Is it because you createcontent, create content.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Okay, you own your map.
I mean, they literally weresaying to me hey, man, you have
enough talent to do this byyourself.
I was really content to just bein the background bass player.
I was there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Well, can you make a living being a background
musician?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
You absolutely can, okay, you absolutely can, but to
me real wealth and realbusiness comes from ownership of
your own music.
Okay, real wealth and realbusiness comes from ownership of
your own music and being ableto market and sell your own
music that continues to pay youlong after the music has died
down.
Usually, there's a three monthto four month window where your
(11:43):
music is really hot and butspecifically in the genre that
I'm in, you can and I'm stillgetting royalties from music
that I did 25 years ago.
Well, that's excellent.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Or 23 years ago, and that's where the masters comes
in.
So, if you don't mind, let'stell us about that.
So you created your first album, but you did not own your
masters.
I did not own them.
Was that a business mistake, oris this just?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
No, it was the entryway.
It was what I had to do to getin Gotcha, and so they made
money off of me.
So I signed to a label and theyinvested in me and I made them
money.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
They went back bankrupt.
I had to go through at least ayear or a year and a half
litigation legally to get mymaster's back.
Once I did that, that wasnmaterial and leased my masters
to a record company.
And then, you know, for acouple of years or so and then
(12:53):
once the lease was over, thenthe rights and all the ownership
of the masters came back to me.
So I would lease them and doanother record.
Then after two years they comeback to me lease, do another
record.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Is that how it should be, or is that how it is now?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I don't know if it should be.
No, the model has changed now,so now you do not need a record
company period.
I'm just a witness of thatmyself, because I own my own
record label Okay good,Absolutely brilliant.
So the only thing that a recordlabel does that you can't do for
(13:34):
yourself right now, is justmarket you.
So the only thing they're goingto do is make sure that the
people that they know now theirdatabase and their marketing
base probably substantiallylarger than any one person, but
they just market.
They do the same thing to alarger database, they just
(13:56):
market.
You can get on YouTube henceyour podcast.
You can get on Spotify.
You can get on all thesestreaming platforms now and do
it yourself, gotcha, and receiveall the royalties Gotcha,
gotcha.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And so your talent took you to the world, and I
want to meander now to youcoming back to Chicago.
Or did you ever leave Chicago?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I never left Chicago, but I spent, so I would spend
so much time in LA.
I was almost thought of as anative Okay, okay, but no, I
never.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, it's interesting why.
Why is LA the music hub, or isthat?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Certainly.
Yeah, there's a.
Well, I don't know if this isstill true now, but certainly,
uh, covid LA was just bustling.
There were so manyopportunities and you almost had
to be there, so that you'd be aphone call away from an
opportunity, gotcha, gotcha.
But it just so happened thatthere were a number of people
(15:00):
who had faith in me to a pointwhere I did not have to be there
and I would just get on aflight and travel three and a
half hours and be there and takeadvantage of it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Now, michael, I'm curious.
So, as a musically trainedbassist, when people call you
I've played guitar before, butI'm curious, when people call,
are you reading the music fromthe notes or is it a feel, or
what's happening in the session?
I'm just curious.
Yes, take us all of the above.
(15:32):
So some of them are justcreative sessions, huh.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Correct, no, so that's it.
Sessions huh, correct, no, sothat's it.
I mean and there's still anargument out there now but there
are some very, very ubertalented musicians out there who
don't know how to readtraditional music at all and
make a really good living.
But I could safely say for myjourney, every great opportunity
(16:01):
that I've had, it's because Iwas trained and I know how to
read traditional music.
Wow, and that's a greatopportunity.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So this is, I hope, an interesting question for you.
Would you advise your youngstudents gifted?
Because I had a son who couldhear and play it?
Piano resisted reading.
Is it better to learn how toread music very well or not?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You should have both talents.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You should have the discipline enough to learn the
language of the written and thenlearn the language of the audio
.
Okay, the caveat is that ifyou're only doing just by ear,
or by rope, as it were, thenthere is a ceiling.
There is only so far you can go, specifically those recorded
(16:57):
sessions that you were aptlytalking about.
When you get into the studio.
Time is money and they don'thave time for you to sit there
and learn how learn the songs.
You have to.
You have to go in there andread it and be done.
They're not waiting on you.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
You know, musicians come into the studio, don't know
how to, don't know how to readit, and say, hey, can you play
it one time?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
nobody has time for that, because time is money got
you got you well, so then dothey send you the music
beforehand so you can practiceor no?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
yes, wow, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't
okay, sometimes they're makingchanges in the music five
minutes before you get there.
You know what I mean.
So again, there's argumentsback and forth.
You know, seemingly noweverybody has a studio but you
could send them files and peoplecould work on them and they
(17:55):
don't necessarily have to.
But if somebody the businessside of that if somebody sends
me files, okay, and I charge bythe hour, I'm going to charge
them for learning this song.
If you send me files or a song,I should say and you've got the
written music, you knock it outin 10-15 minutes and I don't
charge you anymore, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But if you send me a song, say, hey, figure this out
and send me files, yeah, I'mgonna charge you for, know, and
that's so, cause I want totransition a little bit to still
staying on the business sidebefore we get into talking about
the kids at the musical artInstitute is as you were
learning the business, what canyou?
How can you describe thedifferences between when you
(18:40):
were younger than than what'shappening now?
Cause things are very differentnow with AI, with Spotify,
apple, I mean, how has the musicbusiness side changed?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I see it this way and I don't see myself as any less
talented or any more talentedthan anybody else.
I'm just different.
I'm just me right.
That said, I've made thebusiness decision to invest in
myself and then receive thereturn on investment.
I want to say that most peoplethere are tons of talented
(19:18):
musicians who lack the impetus,the self-awareness of where you
are and to invest in themselvesand then market yourselves on
the business side to get areturn on investment.
Most not most, but a lot ofmusicians are looking to get
shows by some artists, to get apaycheck, get a good paycheck,
(19:42):
that type of thing.
But from an entrepreneurialside, just like any other
entrepreneurial, you have toinvest and you have to invest
wisely.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And what do you mean?
So peel back the onion on that.
When you say invest, you mean Idon't think you're talking just
equipment.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
No, not at all.
What do you mean, in fact?
What is the thing that sells inmusic?
The thing that sells in musicis songs, and yourself right.
So I write songs.
I'm actually working on a newproject right now.
I'm investing a lot of money inpeople recording songs or
recording tracks on my songs.
(20:21):
I'm going to finish the songthis week and I'm going to put
it out there in the marketplace.
I'm going to get it on radioeverywhere.
I'm going to put it on everyplace where music is sold.
I'm going to put it on everyplace where music is streamed
and two quarters from now, Iwill start to receive residual
(20:42):
royalties.
Oh is it.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You mathematically have it down to a science, don't
you?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's true.
Two quarters, two quarters Intwo quarters.
I will start to see so I keeptrack of all my expenses, so
that I always pay attention tomy, and I'm always looking for
28% to 34% profit margin, okay,of whatever I spent.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Well, in the stock market that's a pretty good
return.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's a pretty good return.
Especially, you can keep thatgoing in perpetuity too.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Wow, and if the song is good enough, like some of my
songs have been, they'll keepcoming.
Those royalties will keepcoming over years and sometimes
decades.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So let's talk domestically versus
international.
Is there a different way tooperate once you leave the
shores of the United States, oris this return a global return?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It's a global return and they are separate.
But this return a global return.
It's a global return and theyare separate, but it's a global
return.
I've tapped into theinternational market some, but
not nearly as much as I want to,but most of my returns come in
from domestic.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Now, with the emergence of AI and some of the
other things, of AI and some ofthe other things, what do you
think is what's going to be theimpact on the industry and
what's going to be the impact onthe business?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think, to be determined on the industry, and
here's why we just don't knowhow far AI is going to take over
, as it were, and to what extentit will be allowed to take over
, as it were, and to what extentit will be allowed to take over
.
I happen to be a purist insaying that there will always be
a human element that can beundeniable, I think the music
(22:38):
that I write.
I want to say, I don't know ifit's true or not, but I want to
say that the music I write fromthe heart reaches the heart of a
human.
See, I see, and my definitionof art is that the music that I
write and the art that I createenhances the quality of life of
(23:01):
those who listen, and so I wantto say that that can't be
replaced.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Is there a genre that you like best?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I don't know if I can say that either.
I know from a business model.
My genre is contemporary jazz.
Whether it's turntable, smokejazz, I don't know if I agree
with you.
That's my favorite, you know.
But I like contemporary jazz.
But I studied classical music.
My degrees are in classicalmusic.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Are they Really Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, my master's degree from Northwestern is in
classical orchestra conducting.
Wow, okay, I have a great lovefor classical music and of
course I'm a lover of gospelmusic as well, but so I don't
know if I can say I have afavorite.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't think I have one music as well, but so I
don't know if I can say I have afavorite.
I don't think I have one.
So you know, I want to get intothe kids now.
But I have one questionbeforehand, and it's so when you
hear the new music happening bythe new kids coming out now,
any thoughts on what you arehearing?
Do you like it, do you not?
For the?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
most part.
I like it because I believekids are expressing themselves
in the environment that they arein.
They're expressing themselvesas they see themselves at this
moment and I think every artistshould be allowed to do that.
My trepidation is that, becauseof some of the lack of
fundamental music training, someof it is pretty elementary,
(24:28):
shall we say, and some of it canbe quite vulgar and some of you
know, according to our socialstandards.
But they still should beallowed to express themselves as
part of their environment,where they are in their artistic
journey in life.
And that's everybody.
(24:49):
I know I don't write music, Iknow I don't play music like I
did when I was 20 years old, 30years old I'm older.
Now I express myselfdifferently.
I see, I see, I see where youare in your journey, in your
(25:27):
life's journey, and this is, youknow, kind of a snapshot Every
song is a snapshot of where theartist is at that time.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okay, and so how did you get from London to Chicago?
How did you get from London tothe Musical Arts Institute?
How did that gem of a placestart?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, I was portraying record deals one time
and uh, I, I, uh, uh.
I had just started therecording journey and I think I
was between my first record orthe second record, or maybe it
was one of the time when I waslitigating, um, getting my
(26:03):
master's back.
But I taught taught for a CPSschool, chicago Public School,
for a year, basically After Ireceived my master's degree back
in the early 80s, before Istarted touring and stuff like
that.
I taught in north suburbanschools very fluid, mostly
(26:23):
Caucasian demographic, and thenthat year I had taught in
Chicago Public Schools and thedemographic was mostly
African-American, limitedresources, but there was this
idea, or the light bulb momentthat happened is that our kids,
(26:44):
even through the lack ofresources, are no less talented
than any of these affluent kids.
What's missing?
Resources, mentorship,exploitation and motivation.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Well said, and I get you Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
So that was the impotence beyond starting school
.
That was like we've got to dothis and we've got to do this,
and we've got to do it in thetargeted demographic
neighborhood that we have in itright now so that we can bring
those north suburban resourcesto the south side of Chicago.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Because you know, I wonder, does CPS, have they
completely eliminated music?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
No, they haven't.
That's a?
And what happened when I wasthere, because I was a music
teacher, right.
So oddly enough I was part oftheir resources, right.
But there were a number of kidsI mean, we were exposing music
to everybody but there were anumber of kids who expressed
immense talent but because ofthe social fabric of the school
(27:51):
and the school system, that theyhad no way to express it
without serious socialconsequences.
So the idea was to have a placethat those, you know, those
talents, those immense talents,could have a chance to be
expressed without the socialmores that accompany it, in CPS
(28:14):
schools, gotcha.
So that was the beginning.
That said, those resources,like I said, chicago Public
Schools has not totally gottenaway from arts education, but it
is certainly very, very limited.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Very limited.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's the impotence behind our school and our
initiative.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Okay, so tell us a little bit about the Musical Art
Institute.
When did you start?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So this is our 14th year in and I'm very, very
excited that we run two programs.
One is called the Chicago MusicReach Program, in which we go
into those CBS schools and theYMCA and Metro Family Services
and where there is no music, andwe go in there and expose those
(29:03):
kids to music.
So on average we reach about2,300 kids a week with music
education where there wasn't any.
So that's our Chicago MusicReach program.
We employ 22 teachers and astaff of six and these teachers,
who are basically musicians inthe marketplace but they go in
(29:27):
and believe in the same missionthat we have and they go in and
expose our children to musichave and they go in and expose
our children to music.
And then we have our musicconservatory program in which we
expose about well those kidsthat come out of the Chicago
Music Reach program and need aplace to really really express
(29:49):
their talent on college prep,pre-professional level.
We have about 92 kids that arein our environment.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Now, when you say exposed, are you teaching them
to read or and are they pickingan instrument to play?
And between the instruments toplay, how do you guide a child
on which one to play?
That's I'm, I'm, I'm fascinatedwith that.
That walk, I mean.
(30:18):
I remember, you know, theanalogy for me is when I went
out for baseball sorry folks, Ijust want to deviate for a
minute.
I didn't know which position toplay and luckily I went out
done, did a lot of differentthings that became a pitcher, um
and so.
But I also play guitar and Ilove guitar.
But when I think back, I wouldlove to learn how to play drums.
(30:40):
So a young kid comes in in yourREACH program.
How do you guys guide?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
them, all right.
So there are a couple of things.
We have a general music programwhich just kind of gives an
overview, and then some of theschools and some of the grades
have specific instruments thatwe offer, right.
And if the kid wants to learnhow to play something else, they
can go to tell the teacher.
Or they can indicate to theteacher hey, I would like to
(31:09):
learn something else.
What does our teacher do?
Our teacher points them towardsour music conservatory program,
where they're allowed to comein and try out just about
everything, wow, and see whatreally, really excites them,
right.
And then there's another partof that too, specifically for
(31:30):
some of our young, young kidsOnce they come to the
conservatory, we try to get theparents involved, right.
Okay, the biggest teacher andthe biggest motivator are not
the teachers, it's the parents.
It's the parents.
What six-year-old kid has avision for their lives?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
That's a good point.
I mean, you know, I'm sure theyhave a vision, but it's
short-lived, it's short-lived.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
It's like you know you see what you like and you
get excited about it and thatcould change, you know, by the
next piece of candy that's given.
You know that, you know thosethings change and so parents
need to have the foresight Right.
Say, I see my kid on the pianoat page at age 13 in somebody's
(32:16):
big church or somebody's concertstage or whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So no, even that could change.
Well, you know.
Here's my next question.
You are both a performer and aneducator and you know how, how.
How do they complement eachother as you've navigated the
creation of the Musical ArtsInstitute?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
How do they collaborate?
All right, so I mean from avery superficial level.
I get up every morning with therealization I get to share
music with both young and oldEvery day.
Okay, that's a huge, huge deal.
That said, because and I'm alittle squeamish about this my
(32:59):
board of directors are trying toget me out of this because I've
had so much success, I want ourkids to see that somebody who's
studying music and it's goalsabout it you know the
traditional way, as it were canhave success and make a living
at it and have some degree ofstardom.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
And you're a living walking example that they can
look towards, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
So I mean, I've got a jazz ensemble that if I didn't
have the stature that I do have,I don't know if they would.
I mean, I think they wouldfollow me, but they're like dude
, I want to go to everythingthat you're doing.
That's the way they feel aboutit.
They want to just follow mearound and just glean, and I'm
here for it.
(33:47):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Well, you know, I'm going to take a minute here to
give you a commercial there.
I'm going to take a minute hereto give you a commercial.
There are two things that I'vebeen to that you've done.
One I went out to Smooth Jazzout in Lowe's by El Hair and saw
you Phenomenal show.
I really, really enjoyed myself.
And then I also went to theMusical Arts Institute Gala that
you guys had last year, whereJeffrey Osborne was there and
(34:09):
man, did I have a good time?
And you got on stage and it was.
I mean, every artist that gotup there, every band that got up
there, was absolutelyphenomenal.
The venue itself was superb.
I mean to have you speak tofolks that might be thinking
(34:35):
about music as a, as a.
I mean I see it as more thanjust a play toy, but it has
impacted the way I think aboutlife and business and my year
stuff.
What's the future?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Well, I think you you mentioned this before that even
you know, uh, even if you don'tstudy music on a full-time
basis, you don't want to becomea musician, you want to become a
doctor or something like thatthe study of music and the
benefits there are so vast.
You mentioned Condoleezza Riceand her problem-solving skills.
Yes, the study of musicenhances your problem-solving
(35:11):
skills.
Being able to break somethingdown, break a problem down, your
discipline skills, timemanagement skills, being able to
work as a team collaborativelyyeah, all of those things make a
difference and whether you windup on the stage at Carnegie
Hall or if you wind up in yourbasement as you go to your job,
(35:33):
those skills transfer All ofthem.
So I encourage all the parentsspecifically for them to get
their kids into music so thatthey have those skills that they
transfer over.
I always like to say that oneof my favorite Bay students is
now going into chemicalengineering.
(35:54):
He's getting a doctorate inchemical engineering and
studying at University ofChicago.
Okay, but he plays bass.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Those skills transferred over.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And so, as you look into the future, you're seeing
this.
You don't know where AI isgoing to fit.
You don't know where AI isgoing to fit Any other comments
you may have about what you seecoming down the pipe, because
you're not done with performing.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
You got a whole lot more.
There's a whole lot more.
I think AI will make some ofthe menial tasks a lot easier.
I don't know if it'll ever takeover.
I mean and that said, or thatcan be said about anything like
even acting, or, you know, justabout anything specifically in
arts Will we ever go to atheater and see holograms
(36:45):
performing as opposed to actors?
We don't know.
But my point is that, even withall that change happening, I
still think there will be spacefor humans doing music.
And the business model haschanged and you know, there are
still major labels that makemoney off of young artists who
(37:06):
just want to get famous, as itwere, but by and large, people
are wising up and becoming theirown company and making their
own money.
I just saw, I just saw a duo onYouTube.
They've got thousands offollowers and they don't have a
record deal, but yet they go onthe YouTube and make these
(37:28):
videos and they've got thousandsof followers, thousands of
views, and they make their moneythat way.
So my point is that it'sevolving.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's interesting.
A few more questions.
You still have a few moreminutes.
Yeah, sure, okay, so it'sinteresting.
You talked about the businessof it.
I remember Prince being unhappybecause he didn't have his
master's and he refused to do afew things.
I recently went to a StevieWonder concert and I think
Stevie was having some issueswith some of his earlier work.
(38:00):
I could be wrong.
Tony Braxton's another one, andso you just mentioned there are
artists, there are still musicshops or music companies out
there, recording companies outthere, still music shops or
music companies out there,recording companies out there,
and these young artists want tobe famous.
Are you seeing some of thelarger stars make mistakes?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
That they don't own their masters.
They're famous, but they don'town their work Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Can you say a little bit?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
more about that.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I think it is always a mistake for anyone to
relinquish their intellectualproperty.
You should always have controlof your likeness, your recorded
master, because that's how youmake money.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Are there some artists that you can name that
are doing that?
Now I could, just being curious.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
But I think about all those people who were involved
with American Idol right whenthey got on right, they had to
sign long-term contracts, thatanything that they produce,
their image, their likeness, allof that was owned by American
Idol and they could not makemoney for years off of their.
(39:16):
And that's because, you know,American Idol was investing a
lot of money.
They wanted to see a return ontheir investment, right?
So if a guy like Ruben Sutteror you know, or people like that
, wanted to do other things, youknow, A, they had to get
(39:38):
permission.
B, they probably weren't theyhad to give up their royalties
and pay them first.
Wow, they didn't receive anymonies at all.
Okay, okay, wow, so my point is,is that you know if you're
going to do something now.
Ruben Studdard is famousbecause of American Idol and
he'd be just another guy who'dsing without them, right?
(39:58):
So that's just one example.
There's thousands of thoseactors.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
You know I can argue differently, right?
I mean absolutely.
Yes, he's Ruben Studdard,fantasia Clay Aikman, jennifer
Hudson, a lot of them.
But you had to have the talentto begin with.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
You had to have the talent to begin with, how many
people do we know that havetalent, that are working at?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
McDonald's Great pushback.
You know.
Great, great, great.
Oh, you know that's in therecording studio and on the
sports field as well.
Absolutely Well, michael, Ijust want to thank you for this,
and I just have one finalquestion, and that is when you
think of music, it seems to methat singers get famous quicker
(40:45):
than musicians.
And my wife and I have a debatewhen I hear a new song.
I don't know, you might thinkI'm crazy, but when I listen to
a song, I'm actually listeningto the music and I'm not
necessarily listening to thelyrics.
She will listen to the lyricsand not listen to the music.
And so, you know, when I flip,like you know, a whole lot of
(41:08):
songs are out here.
People are falling in love withthe lyrics.
How do you look at that?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
That is so funny.
All right, so we're about toembark upon Valentine's Day,
right?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
My wife is going to kill me.
But there is a gender gap.
Women want to hear what you'resaying to them, guys don't care
so much.
So it's the gender thing.
Okay, guys can get intocontemporary jazz where you
don't have a lyric and again,I'm being very stereotypical
(41:45):
because it's not black and whitebut by and large, the guys will
get into the music and who'splaying and what's going on with
the music, and the ladies arelike, well, what are they saying
?
Okay, okay, I'm going to goabout this as soon as my wife
and children are awake.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Well, michael, I just want tothank you for agreeing to join
me on my podcast.
It's been a delightfulconversation.
Yes, sir, and I don't know ifyou have any parting words you
want to say to my listeners, butI'll let you have the mic right
now.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Well, I would say if you're playing music, keep
playing your music, because it'sso therapeutic and it's so
light giving.
If you're just enjoying themusic, keep enjoying the music,
because it enhances your qualityof life.
We're better humans because ofarts and music, so keep
listening.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Okay.
Well, with that, michael, Ijust want to say thank you very
much.
Yes, sir, ladies and gentlemen,you've listened to Michael
Manson.
He's a legendary bassist.
Please go and buy his albumsthat are out there and please
follow them and visit them.
Their website is the MusicalArts Institute in Chicago,
illinois.
Michael, great conversation.
(42:56):
You shared wisdom that extendsfar beyond music, whether it's
about discipline, businessleadership.
I just love the whole concept,the whole conversation we had.
I have one call to action formy listeners, and that is that
you follow me on my YouTubechannel at Keith D Terry and
please go and check out theMusical Arts Institute.
(43:18):
Thanks for listening to theNext Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry.
If you've enjoyed this episodeand you'd like to support this
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my
YouTube channel at Keith D Terry.
(43:40):
If you want to recommend aguest, please email me at info
at terryperformancegroupcom.
This has been produced by yourhost and Jade Productions.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.