From Leanne and Susie on The Nutrition Couch this episode:
- We discuss why (despite what the celebrities are saying) you definitely should eat more than 600 calories each day;
- We also look at how to use Ozempic to support weight loss;
- Our listener question is about what to eat on long runs or when prepping for a marathon.
So sit back, relax and enjoy this week’s episode!
Tune in on Wednesday for your mid-week motivation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you know how many calories you need or how
many of the body actually needs? Do we eat far
too many? Or should we consuming all of our calories
for survival mode only? This week, Rebel Wilson has had
a lot to say about calories in the media, and
as it turns out, we have a lot to say
about her claims as well. Hi, I'm Leanne Ward and
I'm Suzzi Burrow and welcome to the Nutrition Catch, the
(00:22):
bi weekly podcast that keeps you up to date on
everything that you need to know in the world of
nutrition as well as calories. Today we dive deeper into
using Ozenbeak to support weight loss and discuss the pros
and cons of this drug, and our listener question is
one for all the runners out there, particularly if you
like longer distance running. But to kick us off today, Susie,
(00:42):
there was a very interesting article in the Daily Mail
from an Aussie actress who I quite like Rebel Wilson,
but after reading this some of her articles and comments
around calories, I have to say I'm not really a fan.
So essentially the headline of the media article was Rebel
Wilson claims that people only need to eat six hundred
calories a day after following a week long detox at
(01:04):
a retreat. So I have quite a lot to say
about this, so bear with me. But we do know
that in the past year or so, Rebel Wilson has
lost quite a lot of weight. I think it's been
documented about thirty kilos to date, so she's lost a lot.
So why she's going and checking herself into a detox
facility is beyond me. But apparently this detox facility in
Austria taught Rebel Wilson that she only needed to consume
(01:28):
six hundred calories a day and it was more than
enough as opposed to what most people feel about. Fifteen
hundred to two thousand calories is what most people think
that they need. However, the comments were met with quite
a lot of backlash. As you can imagine, like six
hundred calories a day, most toddlers eat more than that,
most small children eat more than that. Adults, certainly from
a metabolic perspective, need to be eating more than that.
(01:49):
So the comments are met with quite a lot of backlash.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And then she did.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Clarify that this was for detox purposes only and she
doesn't calory count within her daily routine. So I don't
like how this some you know, really specific quotes in
this article, and Ian Rebel said, I just actually completed
a program where I learned all about food and they
taught me that I actually don't need as many calories
as you think. And I just think this is really
important as to like where you get your advice from.
(02:15):
Just because you check into what I'm Machininity is going
to be a very very expensive medical spa and retreat
in Austria, doesn't mean that the advice that they're giving
people is evidence based or based on science, which is
the scariest part. And then somebody as influencial as her
gets online and says that, you know, I don't need
to be consuming anywhere near as many calories as what
I thought, and consumes roughly what a quarter, a fifth
(02:38):
and eighth of what a standard adult should probably consume.
So it's pretty scary. And I mean, we don't need
to detox either. We have a healthy functioning kidney and liver.
The body will do all of the detoxing for us,
so there's no reason that we need to detox. We
need to cut significant things out of our diet or
drop our calories so low they were actually going to
(02:58):
do a disservice to our metabolism and long term So
I'm not a fan of this. I'm not a fan
that she's speaking like it was like medical advice or
anything like that, and I think that this article is
going to do far more harm than good. So I
wanted to call it out and just say, I really
hope that none of our listeners, after listening to us
for I'm sure quite some time, would ever do anything
like this at all. But I just think it's crazy
(03:20):
how in twenty twenty three it's still being spoken about
and publicized on like the front page of the Daily Mail.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
True, I'm like you, I have a fair bit to
say and to be honest, so I don't disagree with
her that we need far more, far less calories when
we think.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I kind of agree with that.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
But giving a specific measure of a grossly inadequate calorie
intake of six hundred per day is highly irresponsible. You
know how I feel about the eight hundred calorie diets
for a start, let alone six hundred. So to give
our listeners an idea of what six hundred calories is,
let's just double check the massly and just run your
eye over this. But it would be an egg in
(03:57):
the morning and maybe a small coffee. It would be
a plane salad for lunch, maybe with a small fifty
grand piece of chicken breast, and it would be a
veggie suit for dinner. Like we are talking about a
very very small amount of food. Now, someone who is
literally in a coma in the hospital, lying down at
a bare minimum will need a thousand, probably closer to
(04:19):
twelve hundred calories, So that is less than a half.
It's basically would be severe starvation. And indeed, diets like
the hCG diet is five hundred calories. Of course, we've
spoken before about the eight hundred calorie plants bruced around
the world, and I have nothing but issues with them,
because people who are able to follow them or restrict
(04:40):
calories to that extent inevitably lose the significant out of
muscle mass as soon as they eat normally. Again, they
tend to binge eat. It's not sustainable for the average
person because most importantly, and it forgets that people like
to eat, and it's okay to nourish your body and
enjoy food and not be kind of constantly restrict and
eat to the level. So, you know, I think it's
(05:02):
highly highly irresponsible and really important that people know that
calories are about fueling and nourishing the body to do
what it's meant to do. And when colories are grossly inadequate,
you are not getting the key nutrients. You'll be wasting
muscle mass, which is our metabolically active tissue. Inevitably when
clients are actively restricting calories, and we've spoken about that
(05:23):
in terms of general restriction of just you know, twelve
fourteen hundred, the mind games that can play when people
feel deprived, particularly when they've had a lifelong relationship with
diets and restriction, and as I said, it just constantly
makes people feel guilty about eating. That's what I took
from her article that we should all feel guilty about
eating it all, and if you want to eat more
than six hundred, you're just a pig and should feel
(05:46):
bad about it. So I think it's you know, of
course people click on it because it does well online,
but just six No one can survive on six hundred calories,
and overtime metabolic rate will reduce. And yeah, I think
it's a really really negative issue and it's really disappointing
to be honest, to see someone who's not qualified giving
such specific information. Now in defense of her she may
(06:10):
have been misquoted. You know, we can't always trust media
organizations to be claiming exactly what was set, but certainly
anything that's advising people that we only need six hundred
calories a day is scientifically incorrect and dangerous. I think
for the bulk of people, and I think in my
first comment, I find people have difficulty coming back from
(06:33):
two thousand calories a day. You know, in a previous episode,
we just talked about how a standard uber eats well
fourteen hundred galleries. Like, I find most of my clients
really struggle. They might be able to do low calorie
or even calorie controlled at twelve fourteen hundred for a
day or two, but most of us struggle to keep
it control in a life in which there's a lot
of food and large portions and alcohol and all the things,
(06:53):
because human beings do get great amount of satisfaction from
eating and food. So yeah, I'm with you. It's a
really bad message. And yeah, any diet for me that's
less than even a thousand, twelve hundred calories certainly for
the women that I'm working with. They need their energylyan
they are busy people, and they need to nourish their
body certainly.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And I mean, maybe that's why they check you into it.
You know, I don't know how many days it is,
but you know, a medical spa retreat because there's literally
nothing else on officue. So because I really don't think
that most people could stick to anywhere close to six
hundred calories, myself included, i'd sneeze and inhale six hundred
calories and a heartbeat. But I think the funny part
about this article, well not the funny part, but the
serious part about this article I could, I should probably say,
(07:36):
is that Wilson was quoted saying that she has some
quite bad habits around eating, and she admitted that she
was a bit of an emotional eater, with her cheap
food being ice cream. So she struggles with emotional eating.
And I just think that's one way to really make
that so much worse is when you restrict yourself so
much more. A lot of the non hungry and the
emotional eating tends to be ten times more. So I
(07:56):
feel like when we're putting such low calorie advice out
there in the public. It's only going to feel things
like disordered eating. So we love your rebel, but it's
a not from us on the nutrition cash.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
All right.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Well, it leads into our next topic of the weekly
and it's not unrelated because if anyone has a history
of type two diabetes or instam resistance, or had been
previously prescribed or suggested that the medication ozen Peak may
be an option for them, you may have noticed it's
pretty freely available now. It sort of went from having
(08:30):
no availability back in February March and then every second
client is talking about it, they might have it now.
The first thing I will say is that ozen Peak
and the semi glue tide group of drugs which concludes
were GOV are very specific medications. So they're actually not
weight loss medications. They are glucose regulation medications, and we're
(08:51):
originally designed for people who had type two diabetes or
glucose regulation issues. So this is the group of people
whose blood glucose levels are elevated. They might have diabetes,
they might have prediabetes. And this new class of medication
is revolutionary because it encourages the pancreas to produce more insulince,
so targeting one of the underlying problems leading to diabetes
(09:12):
and secondary has a very strong appetite andhbitry effect through
the molecule itself, so it works in two ways. So
that is very different to met Foreman, which is a
medication that works in the cell as opposed to encouraging
the pancreas to work harder, so really change diabetes management
and even insulin resistant management. The reason that they work
and are associated with weight loss is the appetite and
(09:34):
hibertry effect is most for most people very strong. So
if you're someone who secondary to insulin resistance or PCOS
is constantly hungry and really struggles to stick to a
calorie controlled diet because you're constantly feeling like you're not
satisfied and searching for food, and anyone listening who has
that issue will straight away resonate because it's a very distinct,
(09:57):
just unsatisfied feeling. And basically these medications they make you
not hungry at all, you don't want to think about food,
but also they may even cause a bit like a
morning sickness nausea, so they really turn you off eating
for one of a better description, which is there's pros
and clons to that. Now, lean for every one client
of mine who has been on oz and peak, I
(10:18):
would have three or four for whom it does not work.
And I just wrote an article about this on news
dot com dot au. And the reason that it doesn't work,
there's probably what we'll find is there's genetic differences in
some people and for those people it may not just work.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Because that happens with medication. It works for some people
not for others.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
So I think we will find that and it will
become more specific as we advance in these medications. But
if you are a client who eats through regardless, So
for example, the typical client on ozen peak a low
dose point two five, very low, and I prefer to
start clients low and then use dart and exercise with them,
will have their appetite smashed by I reckon about half.
(11:00):
My average client would be eating about a thousand calories.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Now that's not a.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Prescription that is purely responding to the appetite and hebitsary
effect of the ozen peak. It's doing its job basically,
so all of a sudden they can be diet compliant.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
They can eat a very tight, calorie controlled diet.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
We really focus on it being high in protein, which
is really important. If you're on ozin Peak, you work
with a dietician to maximize its benefits, and you basically
exercise to improve metabolic efficiency, so you improve your body's
ability to burn calories long term. But people who get
the script online they might not have pre diabetes or
(11:35):
sugar regulation issues. They just want it follow the weight
loss effects, and certainly the es and suburb the Sydney
it's rife.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So they take the medication.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
They don't improve their exercise, so they're not improving metabolic efficiency.
They don't eat for a while, but then they still
go out on the weekend and binge wines, fast food
restaurant meals, and so whilst they might lose a little
bit of weight, it's not the twenty thirty kilos that
actually want to lose because they haven't improved their underlying habits.
And then they say the ozen Peak doesn't work, or
(12:04):
they keep putting the dose up.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's not targeting the issue.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
To get the most out of ozen Peak, you have
to commit just as equally to diet and exercised one
to make sure you're not losing a huge amount of
muscle mass, which is the other issue with losing weight quickly.
You will absolutely be wasting muscle mass and fat mass,
so you look saggy and you won't become metabolically fitched.
So you'll lose the weight, but as soon as you
(12:28):
eat normally again, you'll put it all back on plus
some because you're actually I don't want to swear badly
on here, but it's really stuffing around with your metabolism
long term.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And I see it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I see all these saggy people and they've lost all
the weight, but they've lost a huge amount of muscle mass,
and then they can't keep losing weight or the weight
goes on back quickly because you can't take ozen Peak forever.
There's risks associated with that, you know. I've got some
GPS checking thyroids every six weeks on ozen Peak. We've
got to be really careful with these medications. There's always
pros and cons, so I am a fan of them
(12:57):
for the right kind of client, and I've got a
beautiful case study of this coming up where I really
show the right client.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's a godsend.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
But for people using it without making sure their protein
intake is adequate, without managing their calories, without increasing their activity,
it's going.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
To do more harm than good long term.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And as I said, for every one client who has
worked beautifully, I reckon, I've got three or four who
does it doesn't work because they eat anyway, it doesn't matter,
they're not hungry, they still eat their lunch because they're
cue to eat. They're scared not to eat. They don't
like the feeling of not eating. So it's complicated, but
it can be really successful for some, but not for everyone.
And it's not inexpensively and like it's a big commitment,
(13:39):
So if you're going to commit to it, you want
to make sure you're really committing to diet and exercise.
And I'm on one of the oz and Peak chat
groups on Facebook, and I reckon again, for everyone who's successful,
there's three or four complaining it doesn't work, because I
guarantee you they have not looked at their diet exercise
and they're just wanting it to be that magic pill,
and there is always no such thing.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So if you want to use it, you've got to
use it with.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Lifestyle change or eventually it will stop working at a
bit complete waste of money, and I promise you you'll
gain more weight and it will be harder next time
to get it off because you've mucked around with your metabolism.
Have you had many clients with it, because I see
them all the time, but you don't see any now,
is all I think?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
As my clients are, I don't know. Potentially a little
bit Therenger, I don't know. Resistency.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, they all come to me, come on, come on,
We're ready to see you and sort you out with
the open bank. But you've got to work with the
dietys shit or as I said, it would do more
harm than good.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And this affects me pretty nasty too. But it's trending
all you know, All online celebrities are taking it. They're
saying they're not, but they really are. Yes, it's a
huge range of issues, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I have concerns, Leanne, because it's working on an organ
like it's stimulating the pancreas now for someone who is
on the verge of getting type two diabetes, and it's
going to stop diabetes. Fantastic, but just overworking your pancreas.
When you don't have that, I have concerns, like I
wouldn't want to be targeting an organ unless I really
had to. Let's just physiologically, like you know what I mean,
(15:03):
we should be playing with some of that stuff. You
are targeting an organ to work as harder. Now there
are risks, you know what I mean? There are risks.
So if the pros outweigh the cons. But unless you
really needed to use it like anything, I wouldn't be
I wouldn't be using it because you're basically targeting an organ,
like you don't want to wreck your organs.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's complicated and as.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I said, I've got some GPS checking diros every six weeks,
So you've got to be careful with this stuff. When
you start to play with organs, etc. It's a big
deal and it's a big decision, and you don't want
to take it lightly, and you want to go in
one hundred percent committed to use it as it was
meant to and then ween off. That's why I'm so
against putting the dose up and up and ut what
for You're just overstimulating the pancreas. Where's the endpoint? So yeah,
(15:44):
I think the more we talk about it, the better.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, I totally agree, and I think that a lot
of people don't actually understand the basics of how it works,
and I think it's just promoted online for the appetites suppressions.
So I think a lot of people are being like, oh, great,
I'll take this druggle to help with weight lass because
I won't feel hungry. But as you mentioned earlier, it
can actually like if you eat through that, it's not
gonna work. And if you don't have the insulin resistance
that's needed for the drug to work properly, it's not
(16:07):
gonna work. It may work from an appetite it's a
present perspective, but it's not actually healthy long term, and
you're not taking it in the right manner either. So
lots of really important points that you know, a lot
of social media are failing to report on, all right,
And then that leads us into our final segment of
the show, Susie, where we look for listener questions generally
through our Instagram, So people send through a lot of
(16:29):
questions and if you have sent through questions, we haven't
gotten to them. We do apologize, but we I'm gonna
say Susie get probably fifty to one hundred questions every week,
so a lot of them are quite specific, a lot
of them are quite personalized, Like we can't actually provide
personalized nutrition advice in our Instagram dms obviously, so we
sort of take a couple of broader questions that we
think might help the most people, and there's sort of
ones we work on. So there was an interesting one
(16:51):
this week talking about what to eat on a longer run.
So a lady was preparing for a marathon and wanted
to know what she should be eating for longer ruts.
The first thing I would say is absolutely booking with
a sports side titian. If you're considering a marathon. People
have died from marathons from not training and fueling and
hydrating appropriately. It's worst case scenario, but it's a serious thing.
(17:11):
So you need to take your nutrition and your hydration
and your recovery seriously, particularly at that distance of running,
particularly if it's like an ultra marathon or something like that.
So I would absolutely say get some personalized advice in
terms of you're nutrition and hydration strategies, but for longer distances,
So if we're talking half marathons or longer, So you know,
anything above sort of that twenty kilometer mark, you need
(17:32):
to think about your nutrition in the one to two
days leading up to the event. So a lot of
people will carb load the night before. They'll have a big,
higher carb meal like a big pasta or a big
zotto or something like that, because the carbohydrates are then
stored in your muscles, and your muscles use that glycogen
stores for the energy throughout the race. But there's only
a certain amount of carbs that we can store in
our muscles. So generally speaking, anything over about that sixty
(17:56):
to ninety minute mark, if you're.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Going to continue to run, if you're tapping.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Out after ninety minutes, so you're tapping it out after
sixty minutes, you may or may not be okay. But
most people, generally, if you're still running after that sixty
in a ninety minute mark, will need a little top
up because the body is kind of depleted its stores
of carbohydrate. So thinking about sort of the day leading
up to the event, particularly if you have a more
sensitive tummy, you would want to reduce the fiber load
(18:20):
and reduce the fat load of things. So if you're
going to have a big passing meal the night before
and carb load, that's great. But if it's going to
be a heavy cream, bacon based pasta and you get
a little bit of sort of gas show or a
little bit of ibs or something like that, it's not
going to be a great meal to be running a
marathon with the next day. And I had a friend, Zuzi,
that signed up for her first marathon and her and
(18:41):
her family had tie the night before, and I was like, oh, man,
if you'd only just.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Talked to me.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
She had to stop six times in that marathon to
either go use a public toilet or just go in
the bush somewhere because it just went straight through her.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So it's awful.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So you don't want to fat, and you definitely don't
want anything that's like spicy or fully flavored or anything
like that the sort of the day before. I would say,
so in early morning race you want to be thinking
about you know, some of these marathons can start at
you know, six am or even before, so you want
to get your nutrition in the night before really have
a low fiber, low fat, high carb type meal, and
(19:15):
then about one to two hours before the race, you
want something light, So a light kind of carbohydrate based
snack plus or mine is just a very small amount
of fat. So think about like maybe a chocolate flavored
milk or a musli bar, a little bit of a
peanut butter or honey on toast, maybe a crumpet with
a banana, maybe a little bit of cream rice, whatever
you tend to tolerate. Don't eat new foods the day
(19:36):
before a race. And this is even with training as well.
Once you're training, probably past that kind of fifteen kilometer mark,
most people who are training for marathons will do one
long run a week. That's probably where you would want
to have something like a smaller sized snack about one
to two hours before you're racing. Now, if you're going
for your long run later in the afternoon, you'd probably
want a larger, more carb heavy meal about three to
(19:59):
five four hours. So it might be a big bowl
of pode with some milk and fruit. It might be
like a rice or a passa based dish. It might
be a big sandwich or a roll with a bit
of chicken and just a little bit of light salad,
or a big smoothie or something like that which is
gonna be really easy tolerated. So basically, the longer you
run for the sooner you'll have to kind of top
yourself up. Well, not the sooner, but the more you'll
(20:21):
have to top yourself up during that race. So you
kind of want roughly on average, about thirty to sixty
grams of carver hydrate per hour, and this helps to
prevent the muscle fatigue. It helps to top you up
in terms of the energy that's needed for the race,
and it also helps maintain things like cognition as well.
If you've ever seen those videos, I remember when I
did my sports scitetic degree City, they showed us it
(20:42):
must have been like a marathon sponsored by Gatorade or something,
because it came up with Gatorade or Powerade as a sponsor,
and it was like people who would like the finish
line was right there, and these people hadn't fueled appropriately,
hadn't eaten appropriately, and it was like they were drunk,
like they couldn't It was like they were crawling to
the finish line.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
They were wobble all.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Over the place like they just had absolutely nothing left
in the tank and whatever their last sort of bar
or jel or drink they just obviously couldn't get it
down for whatever reason, or they'd skip that last aid
station and they were so close to the line yet
they just couldn't make it. And that's where things can
go horribly wrong, particularly in the later parts of a marathon,
where you're so fatigued that actually getting down appropriate nutrition
(21:23):
and fluid can be really really difficult. So using things
like sports drinks like a proper Gatorade or Powerade or
something like that, not the low sugar varieties, like you
actually want the sugar in there to provide the carbohydrate,
that can be really helpful in the later stages of
runs as well. Sure, things like gels and shoes and
sports bars can be great, but if you're running a
fairly long distance and you're not conditioned to using those things,
(21:45):
they can actually be really, really difficult to get down.
I have a friend who has been running marathons for
a couple of years. In the first few that she did,
she never trained with bars and gels, yet her trainer
recommended that's what she have in the last fifteen kilometers,
and she couldn't get them down and she couldn't finish
the race. She just tapped out. Nothing left to give.
So it's really important that what you plan on using
in your race, you actually train with and make sure
(22:05):
you can tolerate as well.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, and I think you've described it really well. Even
for long chaining runs. Really it's what you've had the
night before is going to have the biggest benefit. So
making sure that's a higher car meal like a pasta, noodles,
you certainly don't want to go meet and veggies if
you're about to run twenty k's on Sunday morning, people
will differ, you know, if you can't tolerate a slice
of toast before you run, and then you get to
that sixty to ninety minute mark and you need to
(22:28):
top up.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Some of my.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Ghoshus will just be something like a sports drink, maybe
a plane kind of musically bar quite a process one
like a fruit type twist or a fruit roll up.
But in my experience with runners, a lot of it
is a prep time and you're much better to load
up the night before and sort of go light on
your tummy unless you get into two three hour runs
where you might sort of have factor in a whitebread
(22:51):
sandwich as you go.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
To do with that going in with plenty of fuel
on board, and if you can top it up before
you run or sort of by the time you get
to the ninety minutes, something very light and really sports
drinks should get you through unless you're running for another
couple of hours.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Absolutely, And if you're doing things like you know, triathlon,
where there's a run log and a swim leg and
a bike leg, it's the hardest to get stuff down
during the run leg. And obviously you're not going to
be eating a musically bike when you're swimming. So the
what's the old age saying, Susie nutrition is one on
the bike, so make sure you take the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I say nutritions and a triathon is one on the
bike one hundred.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, we actually take the opportunity on the bike to
really be fueling and hydrating appropriately because you just don't
have the opportunity obviously in the water, and the opportunity
while you're running is very minimal as well. It's a
lot harder to get things down. So if you're doing
an event where it's a longer duration event and you
are doing a combination of some legs, take the opportunity
in the bike to really get your nutrition right. And
if you are doing a marathon and your plan is
(23:46):
to have a couple of lollies or something like that,
always take a back up because when you're running in
your fatigue, it's so easy to drop your gel or
drop your lolly, and if you're only taken one, it
can be the difference between you actually finishing the.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Race or not.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
So a couple of little tips for around runners out there,
and that brings us to the end of the Nutrition
Couch for another week. If you haven't done so already,
we would love if you could subscribe to the podcast,
and just in case you missed it, the brand new
Periguide is available online at the Nutritioncouch dot com, as
is our Takeaway and our product supermarket guide as well.
Thanks for listening, have a great week everyone,
Do you know how many calories you need or how
many of the body actually needs? Do we eat far
too many? Or should we consuming all of our calories
for survival mode only? This week, Rebel Wilson has had
a lot to say about calories in the media, and
as it turns out, we have a lot to say
about her claims as well. Hi, I'm Leanne Ward and
I'm Suzzi Burrow and welcome to the Nutrition Catch, the
(00:22):
bi weekly podcast that keeps you up to date on
everything that you need to know in the world of
nutrition as well as calories. Today we dive deeper into
using Ozenbeak to support weight loss and discuss the pros
and cons of this drug, and our listener question is
one for all the runners out there, particularly if you
like longer distance running. But to kick us off today, Susie,
(00:42):
there was a very interesting article in the Daily Mail
from an Aussie actress who I quite like Rebel Wilson,
but after reading this some of her articles and comments
around calories, I have to say I'm not really a fan.
So essentially the headline of the media article was Rebel
Wilson claims that people only need to eat six hundred
calories a day after following a week long detox at
(01:04):
a retreat. So I have quite a lot to say
about this, so bear with me. But we do know
that in the past year or so, Rebel Wilson has
lost quite a lot of weight. I think it's been
documented about thirty kilos to date, so she's lost a lot.
So why she's going and checking herself into a detox
facility is beyond me. But apparently this detox facility in
Austria taught Rebel Wilson that she only needed to consume
(01:28):
six hundred calories a day and it was more than
enough as opposed to what most people feel about. Fifteen
hundred to two thousand calories is what most people think
that they need. However, the comments were met with quite
a lot of backlash. As you can imagine, like six
hundred calories a day, most toddlers eat more than that,
most small children eat more than that. Adults, certainly from
a metabolic perspective, need to be eating more than that.
(01:49):
So the comments are met with quite a lot of backlash.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And then she did.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Clarify that this was for detox purposes only and she
doesn't calory count within her daily routine. So I don't
like how this some you know, really specific quotes in
this article, and Ian Rebel said, I just actually completed
a program where I learned all about food and they
taught me that I actually don't need as many calories
as you think. And I just think this is really
important as to like where you get your advice from.
(02:15):
Just because you check into what I'm Machininity is going
to be a very very expensive medical spa and retreat
in Austria, doesn't mean that the advice that they're giving
people is evidence based or based on science, which is
the scariest part. And then somebody as influencial as her
gets online and says that, you know, I don't need
to be consuming anywhere near as many calories as what
I thought, and consumes roughly what a quarter, a fifth
(02:38):
and eighth of what a standard adult should probably consume.
So it's pretty scary. And I mean, we don't need
to detox either. We have a healthy functioning kidney and liver.
The body will do all of the detoxing for us,
so there's no reason that we need to detox. We
need to cut significant things out of our diet or
drop our calories so low they were actually going to
(02:58):
do a disservice to our metabolism and long term So
I'm not a fan of this. I'm not a fan
that she's speaking like it was like medical advice or
anything like that, and I think that this article is
going to do far more harm than good. So I
wanted to call it out and just say, I really
hope that none of our listeners, after listening to us
for I'm sure quite some time, would ever do anything
like this at all. But I just think it's crazy
(03:20):
how in twenty twenty three it's still being spoken about
and publicized on like the front page of the Daily Mail.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
True, I'm like you, I have a fair bit to
say and to be honest, so I don't disagree with
her that we need far more, far less calories when
we think.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I kind of agree with that.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
But giving a specific measure of a grossly inadequate calorie
intake of six hundred per day is highly irresponsible. You
know how I feel about the eight hundred calorie diets
for a start, let alone six hundred. So to give
our listeners an idea of what six hundred calories is,
let's just double check the massly and just run your
eye over this. But it would be an egg in
(03:57):
the morning and maybe a small coffee. It would be
a plane salad for lunch, maybe with a small fifty
grand piece of chicken breast, and it would be a
veggie suit for dinner. Like we are talking about a
very very small amount of food. Now, someone who is
literally in a coma in the hospital, lying down at
a bare minimum will need a thousand, probably closer to
(04:19):
twelve hundred calories, So that is less than a half.
It's basically would be severe starvation. And indeed, diets like
the hCG diet is five hundred calories. Of course, we've
spoken before about the eight hundred calorie plants bruced around
the world, and I have nothing but issues with them,
because people who are able to follow them or restrict
(04:40):
calories to that extent inevitably lose the significant out of
muscle mass as soon as they eat normally. Again, they
tend to binge eat. It's not sustainable for the average
person because most importantly, and it forgets that people like
to eat, and it's okay to nourish your body and
enjoy food and not be kind of constantly restrict and
eat to the level. So, you know, I think it's
(05:02):
highly highly irresponsible and really important that people know that
calories are about fueling and nourishing the body to do
what it's meant to do. And when colories are grossly inadequate,
you are not getting the key nutrients. You'll be wasting
muscle mass, which is our metabolically active tissue. Inevitably when
clients are actively restricting calories, and we've spoken about that
(05:23):
in terms of general restriction of just you know, twelve
fourteen hundred, the mind games that can play when people
feel deprived, particularly when they've had a lifelong relationship with
diets and restriction, and as I said, it just constantly
makes people feel guilty about eating. That's what I took
from her article that we should all feel guilty about
eating it all, and if you want to eat more
than six hundred, you're just a pig and should feel
(05:46):
bad about it. So I think it's you know, of
course people click on it because it does well online,
but just six No one can survive on six hundred calories,
and overtime metabolic rate will reduce. And yeah, I think
it's a really really negative issue and it's really disappointing
to be honest, to see someone who's not qualified giving
such specific information. Now in defense of her she may
(06:10):
have been misquoted. You know, we can't always trust media
organizations to be claiming exactly what was set, but certainly
anything that's advising people that we only need six hundred
calories a day is scientifically incorrect and dangerous. I think
for the bulk of people, and I think in my
first comment, I find people have difficulty coming back from
(06:33):
two thousand calories a day. You know, in a previous episode,
we just talked about how a standard uber eats well
fourteen hundred galleries. Like, I find most of my clients
really struggle. They might be able to do low calorie
or even calorie controlled at twelve fourteen hundred for a
day or two, but most of us struggle to keep
it control in a life in which there's a lot
of food and large portions and alcohol and all the things,
(06:53):
because human beings do get great amount of satisfaction from
eating and food. So yeah, I'm with you. It's a
really bad message. And yeah, any diet for me that's
less than even a thousand, twelve hundred calories certainly for
the women that I'm working with. They need their energylyan
they are busy people, and they need to nourish their
body certainly.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And I mean, maybe that's why they check you into it.
You know, I don't know how many days it is,
but you know, a medical spa retreat because there's literally
nothing else on officue. So because I really don't think
that most people could stick to anywhere close to six
hundred calories, myself included, i'd sneeze and inhale six hundred
calories and a heartbeat. But I think the funny part
about this article, well not the funny part, but the
serious part about this article I could, I should probably say,
(07:36):
is that Wilson was quoted saying that she has some
quite bad habits around eating, and she admitted that she
was a bit of an emotional eater, with her cheap
food being ice cream. So she struggles with emotional eating.
And I just think that's one way to really make
that so much worse is when you restrict yourself so
much more. A lot of the non hungry and the
emotional eating tends to be ten times more. So I
(07:56):
feel like when we're putting such low calorie advice out
there in the public. It's only going to feel things
like disordered eating. So we love your rebel, but it's
a not from us on the nutrition cash.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
All right.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Well, it leads into our next topic of the weekly
and it's not unrelated because if anyone has a history
of type two diabetes or instam resistance, or had been
previously prescribed or suggested that the medication ozen Peak may
be an option for them, you may have noticed it's
pretty freely available now. It sort of went from having
(08:30):
no availability back in February March and then every second
client is talking about it, they might have it now.
The first thing I will say is that ozen Peak
and the semi glue tide group of drugs which concludes
were GOV are very specific medications. So they're actually not
weight loss medications. They are glucose regulation medications, and we're
(08:51):
originally designed for people who had type two diabetes or
glucose regulation issues. So this is the group of people
whose blood glucose levels are elevated. They might have diabetes,
they might have prediabetes. And this new class of medication
is revolutionary because it encourages the pancreas to produce more insulince,
so targeting one of the underlying problems leading to diabetes
(09:12):
and secondary has a very strong appetite andhbitry effect through
the molecule itself, so it works in two ways. So
that is very different to met Foreman, which is a
medication that works in the cell as opposed to encouraging
the pancreas to work harder, so really change diabetes management
and even insulin resistant management. The reason that they work
and are associated with weight loss is the appetite and
(09:34):
hibertry effect is most for most people very strong. So
if you're someone who secondary to insulin resistance or PCOS
is constantly hungry and really struggles to stick to a
calorie controlled diet because you're constantly feeling like you're not
satisfied and searching for food, and anyone listening who has
that issue will straight away resonate because it's a very distinct,
(09:57):
just unsatisfied feeling. And basically these medications they make you
not hungry at all, you don't want to think about food,
but also they may even cause a bit like a
morning sickness nausea, so they really turn you off eating
for one of a better description, which is there's pros
and clons to that. Now, lean for every one client
of mine who has been on oz and peak, I
(10:18):
would have three or four for whom it does not work.
And I just wrote an article about this on news
dot com dot au. And the reason that it doesn't work,
there's probably what we'll find is there's genetic differences in
some people and for those people it may not just work.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Because that happens with medication. It works for some people
not for others.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
So I think we will find that and it will
become more specific as we advance in these medications. But
if you are a client who eats through regardless, So
for example, the typical client on ozen peak a low
dose point two five, very low, and I prefer to
start clients low and then use dart and exercise with them,
will have their appetite smashed by I reckon about half.
(11:00):
My average client would be eating about a thousand calories.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Now that's not a.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Prescription that is purely responding to the appetite and hebitsary
effect of the ozen peak. It's doing its job basically,
so all of a sudden they can be diet compliant.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
They can eat a very tight, calorie controlled diet.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
We really focus on it being high in protein, which
is really important. If you're on ozin Peak, you work
with a dietician to maximize its benefits, and you basically
exercise to improve metabolic efficiency, so you improve your body's
ability to burn calories long term. But people who get
the script online they might not have pre diabetes or
(11:35):
sugar regulation issues. They just want it follow the weight
loss effects, and certainly the es and suburb the Sydney
it's rife.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So they take the medication.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
They don't improve their exercise, so they're not improving metabolic efficiency.
They don't eat for a while, but then they still
go out on the weekend and binge wines, fast food
restaurant meals, and so whilst they might lose a little
bit of weight, it's not the twenty thirty kilos that
actually want to lose because they haven't improved their underlying habits.
And then they say the ozen Peak doesn't work, or
(12:04):
they keep putting the dose up.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's not targeting the issue.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
To get the most out of ozen Peak, you have
to commit just as equally to diet and exercised one
to make sure you're not losing a huge amount of
muscle mass, which is the other issue with losing weight quickly.
You will absolutely be wasting muscle mass and fat mass,
so you look saggy and you won't become metabolically fitched.
So you'll lose the weight, but as soon as you
(12:28):
eat normally again, you'll put it all back on plus
some because you're actually I don't want to swear badly
on here, but it's really stuffing around with your metabolism
long term.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And I see it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I see all these saggy people and they've lost all
the weight, but they've lost a huge amount of muscle mass,
and then they can't keep losing weight or the weight
goes on back quickly because you can't take ozen Peak forever.
There's risks associated with that, you know. I've got some
GPS checking thyroids every six weeks on ozen Peak. We've
got to be really careful with these medications. There's always
pros and cons, so I am a fan of them
(12:57):
for the right kind of client, and I've got a
beautiful case study of this coming up where I really
show the right client.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's a godsend.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
But for people using it without making sure their protein
intake is adequate, without managing their calories, without increasing their activity,
it's going.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
To do more harm than good long term.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And as I said, for every one client who has
worked beautifully, I reckon, I've got three or four who
does it doesn't work because they eat anyway, it doesn't matter,
they're not hungry, they still eat their lunch because they're
cue to eat. They're scared not to eat. They don't
like the feeling of not eating. So it's complicated, but
it can be really successful for some, but not for everyone.
And it's not inexpensively and like it's a big commitment,
(13:39):
So if you're going to commit to it, you want
to make sure you're really committing to diet and exercise.
And I'm on one of the oz and Peak chat
groups on Facebook, and I reckon again, for everyone who's successful,
there's three or four complaining it doesn't work, because I
guarantee you they have not looked at their diet exercise
and they're just wanting it to be that magic pill,
and there is always no such thing.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So if you want to use it, you've got to
use it with.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Lifestyle change or eventually it will stop working at a
bit complete waste of money, and I promise you you'll
gain more weight and it will be harder next time
to get it off because you've mucked around with your metabolism.
Have you had many clients with it, because I see
them all the time, but you don't see any now,
is all I think?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
As my clients are, I don't know. Potentially a little
bit Therenger, I don't know. Resistency.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, they all come to me, come on, come on,
We're ready to see you and sort you out with
the open bank. But you've got to work with the
dietys shit or as I said, it would do more
harm than good.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And this affects me pretty nasty too. But it's trending
all you know, All online celebrities are taking it. They're
saying they're not, but they really are. Yes, it's a
huge range of issues, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I have concerns, Leanne, because it's working on an organ
like it's stimulating the pancreas now for someone who is
on the verge of getting type two diabetes, and it's
going to stop diabetes. Fantastic, but just overworking your pancreas.
When you don't have that, I have concerns, like I
wouldn't want to be targeting an organ unless I really
had to. Let's just physiologically, like you know what I mean,
(15:03):
we should be playing with some of that stuff. You
are targeting an organ to work as harder. Now there
are risks, you know what I mean? There are risks.
So if the pros outweigh the cons. But unless you
really needed to use it like anything, I wouldn't be
I wouldn't be using it because you're basically targeting an organ,
like you don't want to wreck your organs.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's complicated and as.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I said, I've got some GPS checking diros every six weeks,
So you've got to be careful with this stuff. When
you start to play with organs, etc. It's a big
deal and it's a big decision, and you don't want
to take it lightly, and you want to go in
one hundred percent committed to use it as it was
meant to and then ween off. That's why I'm so
against putting the dose up and up and ut what
for You're just overstimulating the pancreas. Where's the endpoint? So yeah,
(15:44):
I think the more we talk about it, the better.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, I totally agree, and I think that a lot
of people don't actually understand the basics of how it works,
and I think it's just promoted online for the appetites suppressions.
So I think a lot of people are being like, oh, great,
I'll take this druggle to help with weight lass because
I won't feel hungry. But as you mentioned earlier, it
can actually like if you eat through that, it's not
gonna work. And if you don't have the insulin resistance
that's needed for the drug to work properly, it's not
(16:07):
gonna work. It may work from an appetite it's a
present perspective, but it's not actually healthy long term, and
you're not taking it in the right manner either. So
lots of really important points that you know, a lot
of social media are failing to report on, all right,
And then that leads us into our final segment of
the show, Susie, where we look for listener questions generally
through our Instagram, So people send through a lot of
(16:29):
questions and if you have sent through questions, we haven't
gotten to them. We do apologize, but we I'm gonna
say Susie get probably fifty to one hundred questions every week,
so a lot of them are quite specific, a lot
of them are quite personalized, Like we can't actually provide
personalized nutrition advice in our Instagram dms obviously, so we
sort of take a couple of broader questions that we
think might help the most people, and there's sort of
ones we work on. So there was an interesting one
(16:51):
this week talking about what to eat on a longer run.
So a lady was preparing for a marathon and wanted
to know what she should be eating for longer ruts.
The first thing I would say is absolutely booking with
a sports side titian. If you're considering a marathon. People
have died from marathons from not training and fueling and
hydrating appropriately. It's worst case scenario, but it's a serious thing.
(17:11):
So you need to take your nutrition and your hydration
and your recovery seriously, particularly at that distance of running,
particularly if it's like an ultra marathon or something like that.
So I would absolutely say get some personalized advice in
terms of you're nutrition and hydration strategies, but for longer distances,
So if we're talking half marathons or longer, So you know,
anything above sort of that twenty kilometer mark, you need
(17:32):
to think about your nutrition in the one to two
days leading up to the event. So a lot of
people will carb load the night before. They'll have a big,
higher carb meal like a big pasta or a big
zotto or something like that, because the carbohydrates are then
stored in your muscles, and your muscles use that glycogen
stores for the energy throughout the race. But there's only
a certain amount of carbs that we can store in
our muscles. So generally speaking, anything over about that sixty
(17:56):
to ninety minute mark, if you're.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Going to continue to run, if you're tapping.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Out after ninety minutes, so you're tapping it out after
sixty minutes, you may or may not be okay. But
most people, generally, if you're still running after that sixty
in a ninety minute mark, will need a little top
up because the body is kind of depleted its stores
of carbohydrate. So thinking about sort of the day leading
up to the event, particularly if you have a more
sensitive tummy, you would want to reduce the fiber load
(18:20):
and reduce the fat load of things. So if you're
going to have a big passing meal the night before
and carb load, that's great. But if it's going to
be a heavy cream, bacon based pasta and you get
a little bit of sort of gas show or a
little bit of ibs or something like that, it's not
going to be a great meal to be running a
marathon with the next day. And I had a friend, Zuzi,
that signed up for her first marathon and her and
(18:41):
her family had tie the night before, and I was like, oh, man,
if you'd only just.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Talked to me.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
She had to stop six times in that marathon to
either go use a public toilet or just go in
the bush somewhere because it just went straight through her.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So it's awful.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So you don't want to fat, and you definitely don't
want anything that's like spicy or fully flavored or anything
like that the sort of the day before. I would say,
so in early morning race you want to be thinking
about you know, some of these marathons can start at
you know, six am or even before, so you want
to get your nutrition in the night before really have
a low fiber, low fat, high carb type meal, and
(19:15):
then about one to two hours before the race, you
want something light, So a light kind of carbohydrate based
snack plus or mine is just a very small amount
of fat. So think about like maybe a chocolate flavored
milk or a musli bar, a little bit of a
peanut butter or honey on toast, maybe a crumpet with
a banana, maybe a little bit of cream rice, whatever
you tend to tolerate. Don't eat new foods the day
(19:36):
before a race. And this is even with training as well.
Once you're training, probably past that kind of fifteen kilometer mark,
most people who are training for marathons will do one
long run a week. That's probably where you would want
to have something like a smaller sized snack about one
to two hours before you're racing. Now, if you're going
for your long run later in the afternoon, you'd probably
want a larger, more carb heavy meal about three to
(19:59):
five four hours. So it might be a big bowl
of pode with some milk and fruit. It might be
like a rice or a passa based dish. It might
be a big sandwich or a roll with a bit
of chicken and just a little bit of light salad,
or a big smoothie or something like that which is
gonna be really easy tolerated. So basically, the longer you
run for the sooner you'll have to kind of top
yourself up. Well, not the sooner, but the more you'll
(20:21):
have to top yourself up during that race. So you
kind of want roughly on average, about thirty to sixty
grams of carver hydrate per hour, and this helps to
prevent the muscle fatigue. It helps to top you up
in terms of the energy that's needed for the race,
and it also helps maintain things like cognition as well.
If you've ever seen those videos, I remember when I
did my sports scitetic degree City, they showed us it
(20:42):
must have been like a marathon sponsored by Gatorade or something,
because it came up with Gatorade or Powerade as a sponsor,
and it was like people who would like the finish
line was right there, and these people hadn't fueled appropriately,
hadn't eaten appropriately, and it was like they were drunk,
like they couldn't It was like they were crawling to
the finish line.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
They were wobble all.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Over the place like they just had absolutely nothing left
in the tank and whatever their last sort of bar
or jel or drink they just obviously couldn't get it
down for whatever reason, or they'd skip that last aid
station and they were so close to the line yet
they just couldn't make it. And that's where things can
go horribly wrong, particularly in the later parts of a marathon,
where you're so fatigued that actually getting down appropriate nutrition
(21:23):
and fluid can be really really difficult. So using things
like sports drinks like a proper Gatorade or Powerade or
something like that, not the low sugar varieties, like you
actually want the sugar in there to provide the carbohydrate,
that can be really helpful in the later stages of
runs as well. Sure, things like gels and shoes and
sports bars can be great, but if you're running a
fairly long distance and you're not conditioned to using those things,
(21:45):
they can actually be really, really difficult to get down.
I have a friend who has been running marathons for
a couple of years. In the first few that she did,
she never trained with bars and gels, yet her trainer
recommended that's what she have in the last fifteen kilometers,
and she couldn't get them down and she couldn't finish
the race. She just tapped out. Nothing left to give.
So it's really important that what you plan on using
in your race, you actually train with and make sure
(22:05):
you can tolerate as well.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, and I think you've described it really well. Even
for long chaining runs. Really it's what you've had the
night before is going to have the biggest benefit. So
making sure that's a higher car meal like a pasta, noodles,
you certainly don't want to go meet and veggies if
you're about to run twenty k's on Sunday morning, people
will differ, you know, if you can't tolerate a slice
of toast before you run, and then you get to
that sixty to ninety minute mark and you need to
(22:28):
top up.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Some of my.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Ghoshus will just be something like a sports drink, maybe
a plane kind of musically bar quite a process one
like a fruit type twist or a fruit roll up.
But in my experience with runners, a lot of it
is a prep time and you're much better to load
up the night before and sort of go light on
your tummy unless you get into two three hour runs
where you might sort of have factor in a whitebread
(22:51):
sandwich as you go.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
To do with that going in with plenty of fuel
on board, and if you can top it up before
you run or sort of by the time you get
to the ninety minutes, something very light and really sports
drinks should get you through unless you're running for another
couple of hours.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Absolutely, And if you're doing things like you know, triathlon,
where there's a run log and a swim leg and
a bike leg, it's the hardest to get stuff down
during the run leg. And obviously you're not going to
be eating a musically bike when you're swimming. So the
what's the old age saying, Susie nutrition is one on
the bike, so make sure you take the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I say nutritions and a triathon is one on the
bike one hundred.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, we actually take the opportunity on the bike to
really be fueling and hydrating appropriately because you just don't
have the opportunity obviously in the water, and the opportunity
while you're running is very minimal as well. It's a
lot harder to get things down. So if you're doing
an event where it's a longer duration event and you
are doing a combination of some legs, take the opportunity
in the bike to really get your nutrition right. And
if you are doing a marathon and your plan is
(23:46):
to have a couple of lollies or something like that,
always take a back up because when you're running in
your fatigue, it's so easy to drop your gel or
drop your lolly, and if you're only taken one, it
can be the difference between you actually finishing the.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Race or not.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
So a couple of little tips for around runners out there,
and that brings us to the end of the Nutrition
Couch for another week. If you haven't done so already,
we would love if you could subscribe to the podcast,
and just in case you missed it, the brand new
Periguide is available online at the Nutritioncouch dot com, as
is our Takeaway and our product supermarket guide as well.
Thanks for listening, have a great week everyone,
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