February 12, 2025 • 48 mins
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In this episode of The Optometry Money Podcast, host Evon Mendrin, CFP® sits down with Dr. Nick Lillie to discuss his journey of expanding his practice, hiring an associate OD, and restructuring his business to align with his lifestyle and personal values.
Dr. Lillie shares his insights on practice expansion, the importance of focusing on core services, and how financial and operational planning has helped him build a thriving practice that serves both his patients and his family. He also dives into how he approaches strategic planning for the new year, the role of key performance indicators (KPIs) in practice growth, and the mindset shifts that have fueled his success.
What You'll Learn:
- The process behind Dr. Lillie’s practice expansion and move to a new location.
- How he approached hiring and mentoring his first associate optometrist.
- The importance of focusing on core services like dry eye, ocular health, and optical.
- The impact of financial planning and profitability on sustainable business growth.
- How to structure your practice to support your ideal lifestyle.
- The power of tracking KPIs and using data to guide business decisions.
- Why mentorship plays a key role in onboarding a new associate.
- How to develop a vision for your practice and align it with your personal values.
Resources & Links:
- Connect with Dr. Nick Lillie: Email: drlillie@theultimateod.com
- Listen to Optometry: The Ultimate OD Podcast: Website
- Schedule a free consultation with Evon: Click here
- Sign up for the Eyes On The Money Newsletter: Click here
Follow Us:
- Facebook: Optometry Wealth Advisors
- LinkedIn: Evon Mendrin, CFP®
Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share it with a fellow optometrist!
The Optometry Money Podcast is dedicated to helping optometrists make better decisions around their money, careers, and practices. The show is hosted by Evon Mendrin, CFP®, CSLP®, owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, a financial planning firm just for optometrists nationwide.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Evon (00:04):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Optometry Money
Podcast, where we're helping ODsall over the country make better
and better decisions aroundtheir money, their careers, and
their practices.
I am your host, Evon Mendrin,Certified Financial Planner(TM)
Practitioner, and owner ofOptometry Wealth Advisors.
An independent financialplanning firm just for
(00:25):
optometrists nationwide.
And thank you so much forlistening today.
Really appreciate your time andyour attention.
And on today's podcast, I amexcited to bring back to the
podcast, Dr.
Nick Lilly and Dr.
Lilly and I dive into lessonshe's learned as he's moved from
one location to another expandedlarger location, we talk about
(00:49):
his approach to onboarding anassociate optometrist.
we talk about his approach toplanning for the new year.
And although we're already inFebruary, I think there's a lot
to learn and a lot to gain fromhearing his approach to having a
renewed focus on the practicefinancials and profitability to
having a renewed focus in thepractice on their core
(01:11):
competencies, the core servicesthey wanted to provide to
patients.
And then finally, his renewedfocus on building his business
to be in service of his ideallifestyle and his personal
values.
And I'll put all of Dr.
Lilly's contact information inthe show notes, which you can
find by just scrolling down inwhichever app you're using, or
(01:32):
at the education hub at mywebsite,
www.optometrywealth.Com.
And you're there, check out allthe other articles, blog posts,
episodes we've done.
And if you're curious about whatit's like to work with a
optometry specific financialplanning firm, feel free to
schedule a no commitmentintroductory call.
(01:53):
We can talk about what's on yourmind financially and how I help
optometrists navigate those samequestions, those same topic and
issues.
nationwide.
And without further ado, here ismy conversation with Dr.
Nick Lilly.
welcome back to the OptometryMoney Podcast.
(02:14):
I am your host, Evon Mendrin,and I am excited to welcome back
to the podcast once again, Dr.
Nick Lilley.
Dr.
Lilley, thanks for coming backon.
Nick (02:23):
Thanks for having me, man.
It's been, I think about two,three years.
It's crazy.
You were just starting.
I was like getting ready to goto the next level.
I think we're both, we both getto re regroup and see where
we're at, how we did.
Evon (02:36):
That's right.
Yeah.
I was looking back.
You were episode nine and we'reover a hundred episodes beyond
that.
So that, that early appearanceon my podcast didn't tank your
career.
So it looks like we ended up.
Okay.
Yeah.
Nick (02:48):
Right, how funny is it though?
Cause I started my podcast inabout 2020.
If you look back at some ofthose early episodes, it's like,
oh man.
What was I thinking?
Right.
But with like everything, it'sthe reps, it's the consistency,
and I'm sure you have adifferent flow and feel, and you
can just do this in your sleep.
Now that's, that's how I atleast feel.
(03:09):
It's, it's awesome to see thatthe work pays off.
Evon (03:12):
Yes, yeah, I cringe a little bit at my, at how I
handle those early episodes, butyou know what?
You learn, you get better, andthat's all a part of it, right?
Those reps are a big part ofanything.
I mean, you talk about maybe anoptometrist getting the reps of
working with patients for thefirst time coming out of
college, you know, those thereps in anything new are super
important.
And I think we're afraid of thata lot of times, right?
We don't want to put ourselvesout there.
(03:32):
We don't want to make mistakes,but you learn from those
mistakes.
You, you get through that.
So, and I see you're, you'redoing not only your own podcast,
the Ultimate OD Podcast, you'redoing YouTube videos now.
So you're really puttingyourself out there too, right?
In all these different ways.
Nick (03:47):
Absolutely.
It's, it's one of the thingsthat I looked at is that, that's
the evolution of what I've seeninfluencers or people do.
So it was like pulling teeth toget me to do the podcast and
then be in front of the camera.
I talk for a living.
I mean, that's literally what Ido.
But when you're in front of acamera, you just kind of freeze
(04:08):
up.
It's different.
But because I do that, on aweekly basis now, I can have a
conversation with anyone.
When I, when you look at myoutlines, I used to outline like
pages.
Now it's like five words and Iknow where to take it.
And it's made me not only betterwith speaking, but I'm better at
communicating with my patients.
That's one of the coolest thingsabout this is I, I take what I,
(04:32):
what I, I want to know and I putit in a podcast or I put it in a
YouTube video and now I have itSimplified down and that's my
conversation.
My talking points with mypatients.
It's really really cool.
It's been beneficial in thatsense
Evon (04:45):
So that's interesting.
I've noticed the same thing inthat the things I talk about,
things related to my work withoptometrists, you have to, you
have to think, how am I going toexplain this in a podcast?
And that experience of learningmore and boiling it down,
translates to the work that I dowith clients and I can explain
it a lot clearer as I'm goingthrough that with real people in
(05:07):
real time.
sometimes I go way too far orway too long in the podcast and
I learned from that too, becauseI know when I'm talking to
someone in real time, Ishouldn't do that.
So, so you learn from, fromeverything you're doing here
with all these bits of content,but, let's talk about some
changes and updates that you'veseen in your own practice.
I know last time we talked, Youwere thinking about, you had
(05:27):
goals of adding an associate,you had goals of expanding.
Talk to us about where yourpractice is at right now.
Nick (05:33):
Excellent, yeah when we talked last I was in the
original place I started we hadabout 1,600 square feet one exam
room, workup room.
And that was, that was theextent.
And I had like six or sevenstaff in that small of a space.
And it was crowded.
We were on top of each other.
And, thankfully through justsheer persistence, I'm like, we
(05:58):
have to grow.
And I just started callingeveryone I could, knocking on
doors.
And it was quite the adventure.
because what you realize is,just because you think you have
a successful thriving business,when you go to a location
looking to lease a space.
They have a different idea ofwhat they want, what they're
looking for.
And, I, I missed out on a coupleof spots and I thought I was
(06:19):
competitive.
I'm, I'm, I was shocked thatthey didn't want a stable
business to be there like myown, but it was the square
footage that I needed.
And when you do an optometrypractice, you can't just go into
like a medical office.
And use their rooms.
We are really unique in what youneed.
So that fell through and Icalled one of my, colleagues
(06:40):
that I've worked with on lookingat different real estate and he
was a developer and we, we had adeal fall through about two
years ago.
I'm like, Hey, is that stillopen?
And we just hashed it out, madeit work and.
a 3,500 square foot new build,which is awesome because when we
built the building, I got todesign the spot.
It wasn't even built.
So usually you have to conformyour business to the space
(07:03):
that's there.
I got to design my space and hebuilt the building around that.
So it's like starting your ownpractice.
Clean slate, it was, it wasawesome.
So we have that, we have 3, 500square feet.
So we have six exam lanes, twoof them are dedicated dry eye.
we have eight full time staffmembers and I added an associate
(07:24):
doctor, which is, that was thebiggest, am I ready to delegate?
Am I ready to have anotherdoctor in there?
Because I operated for 13 yearsanswering to no one but myself.
So that was a, that was a bigjump, but it's been, been
awesome.
Evon (07:37):
yeah.
Fascinating.
So you, what did you look for asyou looked for new spaces?
What were some of the criteriathat you were looking for?
Nick (07:47):
Yep, number one I wanted to be in a heavy traffic area.
I wanted high visibility.
The spot I was in now, I wasthere for 13 years and I'd say
people that would come in and belike we didn't even know you
were here and That's the mostfrustrating thing you can hear
as a business owner.
You're putting stuff out onsocial media You're marketing in
the community You're trying tobe active and present and people
(08:09):
still don't know that you'rethere.
That was that was justfrustrating to me so we got
Thankfully, we're not on ourbusiest street, but we are busy
A stones throw away, from the,one of the busiest intersections
in Allendale, Michigan, andthere's Walgreens right on the
corner.
So I'm right next to aWalgreens.
If you know anything about realestate, Walgreens knows where to
(08:31):
pick a location.
So that made me feel good.
And then the two, high schoolsand middle schools are.
Literally right down the street.
So it's very busy in themorning.
We got street frontage and welit up our signs so people can
see us from the road.
And one of the things we did, weused to be Allendale Family
Vision.
We renamed ourself to FamilyVision Optical because Allendale
(08:55):
Family Vision, one, was geospecific, it was specific to a
location, and then if you hearthat, you're not sure, are they
selling glasses, is it familyplanning, what is that?
So by putting the optical inthere, we changed our logo to
have a pair of glasses, theyknow what we do.
So if you see us from thestreet, that's an eye care
office.
So we did that and, It's reallybeen good.
(09:16):
People are like, oh, how longhave you been here?
Well, actually we've been herefor a while, but it's it's new.
and then as we grow and look toscale We're building a brand
that's not centered around alocation So that was one of the
things that we did to help and Iwanted that high traffic area.
I also wanted That was in aprofessional setting nothing
(09:38):
against these other businesses,but we were next to a
restaurant.
There was some smoke shopsroofing like Okay, it just was a
bunch of hodgepodge of thingsand it wasn't necessarily
helping us build each other up.
I wanted to have more of amedical field.
As I look at the landscape whereI think optometry is going, I
think we're going to more of amedical model.
(09:59):
So I want to be around moreprofessionals, whether it's an
insurance agent or, you know,other doctors, other
professionals in that sense.
That's the clientele I'm tryingto, trying to be around and
serve.
Evon (10:10):
Gotcha.
And you, you, that'sinteresting.
You, you were looking for thetraffic.
You obviously had plenty ofspace that you wanted to fill
what you, where you felt yourpractice was going.
you mentioned six lanes.
So are you and your associateboth working full doctor days?
How, how is that scheduleddivvied up?
Nick (10:26):
Yeah.
So, and that is one of thebiggest things that I've really
had to ask myself is what do Iwant?
Right?
I was working four and a halfdays.
So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,and we work nine to noon on
Fridays and I heard everyonetell you if you hear anyone
Talking about private practiceis you have to work on your
business not in your businessget out of the exam lane and
(10:49):
that's when you really grow andMy thought was, well, what am I
going to do with that time?
And the, the advisors, thepeople I've talked to said, you
just set that time aside and youwill find a way to fill it.
And I was like, okay, thatsounds good.
So the goal was that the newdoctor that came on, she did not
want to work full time.
So she works Tuesday, Wednesday,Thursday, full days.
(11:11):
And then she works the night andnoon on Fridays.
I started off Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday, and nothing on
Thursday and Friday.
And after about three weeks, itjust, I didn't like how it felt.
if I'm in the office and I'mgoing to show up, I want, I want
to see patients.
That's just kind of how, how Idid it.
So what I've done now, and thishas took some time, I work nine
(11:32):
to six on Mondays and I havefull days.
I mean, I booked myself out.
I see about 25 comprehensives.
Tuesday, Wednesday, andThursday, I work nine to three.
So a school day and then I getout and I saw patients and I get
out and I get to be with myfamily.
I saw a graphic that, the timeyou're going to spend with your
kids as they get to a certainage, it just drops off.
(11:54):
So I'm trying to take fulladvantage of that and still see
patients.
So it's been, it's been one ofthe most fulfilling things is I
get in, I get to see patientsand then I get to go home and
spend time with family.
And that one day on Friday withno patients, and no other
obligations is enough for me towork on the practice.
So it's been really a greatbalance, to have that.
And another thing I noticed waswhen you have an established
(12:16):
practice and you bring onsomeone new, my patients were
loyal to me.
I tried to block off that time.
So they scheduled with her.
They were just scheduling weeksout and I have higher overhead.
I have a higher staff.
I have a doctor that has to getpaid.
I'm like, I need to seepatients.
So we had to figure out a happymedium in that sense, because
(12:37):
they weren't, I was just goingto work less and not have the
revenue that I needed to be ableto see patients and still have
that cashflow coming in.
Evon (12:45):
Gotcha.
Going through that expansionphase now, and especially going
through the build out, designingthe new location.
Are there any lessons that youlearned that you can share with
the audience around, aroundbuilding out the location,
designing it, moving into it,marketing it?
Like what, what lessons have youlearned that maybe you didn't
know when you first started thatwould be helpful to share?
Nick (13:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Two, two things stand out rightaway.
Number one, Optometry is aunique profession.
Work with optometricprofessionals.
So I actually had a secondoffice.
I opened in 2011.
Okay.
2014 I opened a second officeand I designed this on my own
and I didn't maximize my spaceand then I had a couple of
(13:29):
opportunities where I was gonnahave another office and Went
through the design process withtheir people the people that
represented the the space and itjust it didn't flow It didn't
feel right So when I did this, Iworked with Optometric
Architects and iDesigns, twowell known people in the
industry, and I got amazingresults.
(13:50):
I, I wrote up my plan on a,piece of graph paper, sent it to
iDesigns, and what they did, ornot iDesigns, Optometric
Architects, and they made itfit, they made the flow so much
better, and I'm like, this isamazing.
They maximized the rooms,maximized the flow, thought it
all through, how doors open,where you're going to put
chairs, and it wasn't, it justmade sense.
(14:12):
And then in terms of design,iDesigns is amazing at optical.
I, I knew that they were goingto be more expensive.
but I wanted to invest insomething that provides 60
percent of my revenue.
So going with them was, I thinkwas awesome.
Like that, that really helpedmake it pop.
It gave me the feel that Iwanted and I had a vision.
(14:34):
I was able to express that tothem and they made it a reality.
So working with professionalsthat know your business, kind of
like when you're working withan, a CPA like yourself, I now
have so much more value inpeople that know what I do.
that understand optometry as awhole, it makes a huge
difference.
Evon (14:50):
Yeah.
Even like you said, you knew itwas more expensive going in, but
you knew the results.
Was probably gonna be higherquality.
It was gonna meet, it was gonnafit your business better because
they knew optometry.
Right?
They knew your, your businesseven better.
Yeah.
Nick (15:03):
hundred percent.
And, and, and the second thingthat I would say, if I, if I add
on is I knew that, we weremoving in, in October, whenever
you do anything like that, youwant your marketing, you want
everything set and planned.
So starting in March, I workwith a company called National
Strategic who knows again,optometry.
(15:23):
I said, Hey, we're moving here.
Where are my blind spots?
And then also we need to fillthis up as soon as we get in
there.
So we had a, PPC.
So paper, like Google ads,
Evon (15:33):
mm-hmm
Nick (15:35):
plan set in place.
We had a marketing plan.
We got in there and it wasn'tlike, okay, now what are we
going to do?
And it's going to take threemonths to get it.
We had a plan in place for,we're going to move in this day.
These are all the boxes we'regoing to check off and let's
market and build this out asquick as we possibly can.
And we've seen a great amount ofgrowth.
Right away because of havingthat plan in place.
Evon (15:56):
Very cool.
Very cool.
going back to spending more timeworking on the practice versus
in it.
I, I want to talk to you abouthow you've approached, you know,
cause I've heard recent podcastepisodes that you've done on
your podcast.
You have a lot of great episodesabout mentality and a goal
setting and preparation.
And I want to ask you a littlebit about how you prepare for
(16:17):
the new year.
We're in January, 2025.
So we've already gone throughthe New Year's Eve.
It's already 2025, but how didyou approach looking at this new
year and reviewing yourbusiness?
asking yourself questions, areasof improvement.
How did you approach that as youwent into the new year?
Nick (16:38):
Great question.
And that, that's something thatalso has evolved over the past
two years.
two years ago when I said we'regonna put this, this in motion
to get to where I'm at rightnow.
Profit First by MikeMichalowicz.
I read that book and I thoughtthat was amazing.
And I said, if I want to dothis, I need to start focusing
on the business side of things.
(16:58):
We need to make money.
So I was looking at all myrevenue, like what am I doing in
Optical?
What am I doing for my examfees?
And I revamped all that andsaid, if I'm going to do this,
I'm going to make money.
Like, let's get in there and getthat.
And.
What happened was my businessgrew.
We were more efficient.
(17:19):
It's that pumpkin principle like80 percent of your growth is
from 20 percent or you you knowthe the saying of that But so we
we got rid of the outliers Westopped trying to be the
Cheesecake Factory and haveeverything and we were gonna be
Ruth's Chris.
We have a great steak We don'thave a kid's menu.
We we do what we do when we doit.
Well, and we've we focused ourour goals on dry eye, ocular
(17:45):
health and wellness, and thenour optical.
Anything outside of that was notin our, in our, in our realm.
And then when it got to thisyear, I spent the past, you
know, 13 years trying to be thepractice that I think everyone
else would admire.
You know, I want to do this muchrevenue, I want to do the high
end optical, I want to do themedical stuff.
(18:07):
And it was great, it gave me agoal But at the end of the day,
I wasn't necessarily makingmyself happy.
I'm like, I'm checking out theseboxes.
I've got them and I still am notoverly fulfilled, right?
I have this hunger.
There's something missing.
So this year it was reallydifferent.
I really sat back and said,where do I want to go?
What do I want out of the nextdecade of my life?
(18:30):
And how do I want to practice?
What kind of patients do I wantto see?
Do I want to grow and expand?
And that's I kind of came to theconclusion of what I said to you
is I like seeing patients, but Ilike being home with my family.
I found a happy medium, a doctorthat works the hours that I
don't.
So by having an associate, I'veopened up my time.
(18:52):
And then the whole thought ofgrowing and expanding, that's
kind of my, how much of aheadache do I want?
If I do it, it's going to bemerely because it gives me joy,
not because I'm chasing amonetary goal.
And everything else previouslyused to be based on money.
And you have to make a living.
You have to be profitable, butwhat does your lifestyle mean?
(19:14):
What does that look like?
And, I've gotten really good atlooking at my personal finances,
what I want to accomplish withmy wife, with my kids.
And now I'm building my lifearound that versus.
building my life around thepractice that I'm running.
It's, it's kind of reversed inthat sense, but I really sat
down and thought, what do I wantthat gives me joy?
What makes me happy?
(19:34):
When do I come home and I had anamazing day?
How do I repeat that over andover again?
So it was more of a looking atwhat I wanted out of life versus
what I wanted the practice to doand reverse engineering that.
Does that, does that make sense?
Evon (19:47):
Yeah.
So to, to kind of break thatdown a little bit, number one is
you had a better focus on thefinancials of the business,
especially profit.
And what's great about thatProfit First book and sort of
mentality is that even if, evenif you don't go the full lengths
and dealing with the way thatthe accounts are set up and, and
all of that, the gist of the, ofwhat it should be giving you is
(20:11):
that you shouldn't be a slave toyour business.
You should be.
Drawing an income from yourbusiness.
Your business should beprofitable.
You should be enjoying thefruits of your labor.
you know, that's one of themajor takeaways of the book is
to focus on profit because youshould be enjoying the The
fruits of your labor.
And, and so it sounds like youhad a renewed focus on that.
What's happening in thebusiness.
(20:33):
Are we profitable?
Let's maintain that.
second thing it sounds like isthat you focused on your, your
best key core competencies.
Like what do we want to be thevery best at because they are
the most impactful.
And for you, it was dry eye.
It was, what
Nick (20:48):
I could help
Evon (20:48):
was dry eye.
and then what was the third?
Nick (20:51):
Optical.
Evon (20:52):
Optical.
Okay.
Yes, that's right.
Yes.
The optical.
So you, you honed in on theseother things on these, on these
key things.
What were some of the otherthings that you felt like were
taking resources from thebusiness or time or energy?
Like what, what were some ofthose other things that you
trimmed down?
Nick (21:09):
Yeah, two, two of the big things.
One was, scleral lenses.
I love the impact it had onpatients.
However, when I look at it, theamount of time it took to fit a
patient, their satisfaction washigh initially, but once they
saw what they saw, they justwanted that again and again, and
(21:30):
they weren't necessarily willingto pay for it.
They, they, they got it, and ifyou're good at what you do when
it comes to sclerals.
They just expect it to be thateasy every time.
And it's an art.
It really takes up a lot ofchair time, but in addition, it
takes up a lot of staff time.
And what I was seeing is mystaff only had so much
bandwidth.
I couldn't have dry eye,optical, them knowing about
(21:53):
macular degeneration and thesupplements we want to do, and
know about sclerals.
So where was our, where was mypassion and where was our
focus,and what moved the needlein terms of the business?
So, that's why we kind of cutsclerals.
In addition, one of the hardestthings that we have in our
office is hiring new opticians.
Because it's a whole newlanguage, it's a whole new,
(22:14):
dealing with vision insurances.
We cut down our options in whatwe offer.
So we have basically threeoptions.
This is what we offer in termsof lenses.
And if you don't like that,great.
You don't have to get it fromus.
We're just not the office foryou.
We deal in high end stuff.
If you want cheap, totally fine.
You have to do what's best foryou and your family.
(22:35):
We're just not the office foryou.
So we, we raised our prices, butI said if we're gonna do that,
we're gonna give them value.
They're gonna get the bestquality they can and we're gonna
own it and we had a couplepatients that didn't like it
They they they said this is tooexpensive We don't see the value
in it and I just told my staffwe're not the office for them
(22:59):
trust Trust me We're gonna finda group of people that love what
we do and they're gonna be ourloyal followers And that's what
that's what we've done and it'sreally worked well for us
Evon (23:10):
Yeah, that's fascinating.
You, you focused in on who do weserve best and what do we do for
them and, and those highestimpact activities and focused in
on that.
And then lastly, you, you talkedabout, reviewing sort of what
the business means to yourfamily, right?
And sort of reviewing yourpersonal values and what you,
what you want your business todo for you rather than are you a
(23:33):
slave to your business andbecame more intentional about
building your business aroundthat.
And has that been something thatyou've struggled with before?
Have you felt like you werespending too much time in the
business.
Like your whole life was led bythe business instead of these
other things that you felt likevalue were more valuable to you.
(23:54):
Like, how did that suddenly comeup over the last year?
what, how have you, how have youplanned around that?
Nick (24:00):
One of the biggest things that I really thought about was
I had a really good job, but ifI wasn't there, we weren't
making money.
And that's a great job, but it'snot a business.
One of the things I wanted to dowas be able to be, go on
vacation with my, my kids andfamily because I only have a lot
(24:21):
of fixed time with them.
I'm going to take the vacationregardless, but I hated that I'd
leave and my patients weren'tbeing served.
There'd be a red eye or there'dbe something where they needed
help, and I wasn't there.
My staff, again, depends on me,and if I'm not there to drive
revenue, we're, we're payingthem money and they're sitting
there and doing nothing, right?
(24:42):
so I wanted to have a way thatwe, we could have a business in
that sense.
So that I, I just really focusedon how do I I practice the way I
want but also have it provideincome when I'm not there and it
really just came down to how doI want to spend my time in the
office and out and outside theoffice I know That when my kids
(25:05):
are playing sports, they'regoing to do things I can always
be there and it was it's fineIt's a sacrifice my wife
understands the kids get it dadhas to take care of the business
That's what he does, but it waskilling me inside that I'd
missed a an opportunity to bethere that's not going to always
be there.
I can work for the rest of mylife, but my time with my kids,
is fleeting.
(25:26):
How do I get so I can see them?
And it initially was, well, I'lljust, we'll, we'll lower our
lifestyle.
We'll get less money.
But when I talked to otherdoctors, other people that have
done what I want to do, theyfound a way to do both.
I'm like, I, I just got tochange my mindset, practice how
I want to practice, but set up.
(25:47):
the infrastructure to have anactual business.
And that's kind of what'sevolved is, EOS, the
entrepreneurial operatingsystem.
it is something that I'm reallygoing deep and hard into.
I'm hoping to implement in thenext, the first six months, the
first two quarters of the year.
And what I found there issystems scale.
Having systems will allow me tobe out of the office and not be
(26:08):
the sole reason that we're,we're successful.
Now, granted, I'm My managers,the other doctors, they're
probably going to be not quiteas good as I am, but there'll be
80 percent of it, and that'sgood enough.
And I had to just accept that mypatients will still show up,
they'll still come, even if theywere about 80 percent as good.
(26:29):
And that was a really, meletting my ego aside, right?
Letting things go and teachingand training them to handle
those, those things that Icouldn't.
Evon (26:39):
Yeah.
And so it took you to really sitdown and say, okay, what's most
important to me in my life andlet me adjust my business around
it.
And there are.
there are a few differentmotivations for hiring an
associate.
One of them is capacityconstraints.
So you want to get through thenext revenue band or, or
whatever it is, meet thatincreasing patient demand.
(26:59):
Part of it is wanting more timefreedom and allowing yourself to
step out of the practice,knowing that patients can still
be seen if you're not there,allowing you to do other things
that you want to do in yourlife.
And it sounds like you've done alittle bit of both.
You found ways to improve thebusiness as well as to buy
yourself some time, right?
Which is, which is interesting.
(27:20):
Sometimes those goals cancompete against one another.
And it sounds like you found away to do a little bit of both.
Nick (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely, and the beauty of it is, it's given me
more juice, because the doctorthat I brought in, loved her to
death, she's absolutely amazing,and one of the biggest things
that we connected on was, webelieve in practicing the same
way.
We believe in the dry eyeaspect, the ocular health and
(27:47):
wellness.
I can see her patients, she cansee mine, and we know we're not
going in different directions.
We're rowing in the samedirection.
That's been awesome, butthroughout this process, I
realized that a lot of what Ido, I just took it as like every
doctor does this, and I, I'vedeveloped some skills and
abilities over the past decadethat aren't just common sense,
(28:11):
which I, which I thought theywere, and I've been able to help
and mentor her a little bit tojust, see herself as a business.
How does this make sense?
And I love that aspect.
I really look forward to,eventually getting big enough
where either we can have externsor residents come if we grow and
expand.
I do like the idea of mentoringother doctors.
(28:31):
It's kind of what we do in ourpodcast is we have information
that we love to share.
I like applying it and helping,helping the, Other doctors be
better than they think they canbe or operate in a way that
they're still profitable.
They're still operating at ahigh level, but they're better
than they thought they could be.
It's really been fulfilling inthat sense.
(28:52):
So I gave myself another tool.
It's not just in the office orbusiness owner.
There's a mentorship aspect thatI really, really enjoy.
Evon (29:01):
That's, that's really cool because I feel like I hear a lot
where associate doctors wantthat mentorship, especially when
you compare it to higher, muchhigher paying, potentially much
higher paying corporate jobs.
The contrast is that in, in manyprivate practice settings are
able to get more of thatmentorship from, from the owning
doctor or other, other doctorsthere.
(29:22):
And I feel like that would be a,go a long way in terms of
Getting that associate onboardedand making that transition
really successful is giving themthat mentorship that they need.
But it also sounds like youfound a really good like culture
fit.
Like you found someone that seesthe way you practice or sees
optometry very similar to theway that you practice.
(29:44):
Was that a result of hiring?
Was that a result of training?
Like how, how did that comeabout?
Nick (29:49):
Yeah, so the Hardest part about this whole expansion thing
has been finding a doctor.
I've had opportunities to buyand acquire practices, but I
can't find a doctor to go there.
So it's really hard to grow andexpand.
So my mentality has been, I'drather have it all under one
roof because if Things get real.
(30:10):
And we had an instance where shewas sick for a couple days and I
was able, because we're soearly, to absorb her schedule.
And again, I was a little busyon certain areas, but I could
still handle it all, right?
Again, probably doing more thanI should, but I like it all
under one roof so I can have myhands in it kind of guide.
And what we did was, we just hadtons of conversations of, this
(30:33):
is what we believe in.
This is how we practice.
This is what we do.
And we just jived.
The thing I liked about her wasoutside of optometry or whatnot,
I could have a conversation.
We could go out to dinner andtalk about the same things.
We have a similar liking innutrition.
We like the You know, medicalside of dry eye, not the
(30:55):
aesthetic side.
So we're on the same page there.
And we could just riff off eachother for hours.
And it felt like I was reallyjust talking to a friend.
Whereas when I talked to some ofthe young doctors coming
straight out of school, it was alittle rough.
It was a little of like, theyare really, really fresh.
I couldn't trust them to justhandle their own schedule
(31:17):
without me really babysitting.
Now again, that's not everydoctor.
Some doctors are going to be alittle better than others, but
then you have to figure out, dothey want to work for what
you're willing to pay?
Do they like the area thatyou're at?
There's a lot more variables, sothe fact that we jived, she had
three years of experienceworking in other practices, I
(31:38):
could trust her to be a gooddoctor.
I've never once questioned her,performance.
Patient Care Aspect, there'sjust been some flow and
efficiency things that she's hadto learn.
And part of that is because whenyou're a private practice doctor
you always try to do things atthe least expensive way
possible.
So that means you put a lot ofit on your plate.
Well when she came in she wasused to having amazing techs,
(32:00):
amazing opticians, where shecould just kind of show up, do
her doctor thing, and all thebusiness side would be taken
care of.
Where I have just put it all onmy shoulders.
I, I sell from the chair.
I talk about the procedures.
I'm not afraid to talk about thecost of everything.
Where she can have thoseconversations, but she's not
used to having them.
(32:20):
Kind of like we were talkingabout, when I talk about the
podcast or, the YouTube videos,I'm having these conversations.
She's not used to doing it atthat capacity, so kind of, I I
literally, what we do once aweek, we have a one on one.
We have lunch together and I'lljust go through my schedule.
This is my patient.
This is what I did.
This is how I approached it andlet her ask me questions and I
(32:42):
go, what is your mindset?
What are you thinking?
All right, this is what I wasthinking and let her bounce
things off my head and I go, I'mnot the only way, but at least
see what I do and haveperspective.
And that's been a game changer.
She's now like seeing thingsfrom a different light and I've
helped focus her in on what canget you bogged down in an exam
(33:03):
and what, what's going to makeyou more efficient.
And now she's more efficient,but still providing that amazing
patient care and still beingauthentic and true to herself.
So it's, it's been a work, butmeeting weekly and just talking
about what we do has been veryhelpful as well.
Evon (33:19):
weekly meetings.
Yeah, it sounds like it's a,it's a mix of, the hiring
process, but it sounds like youdefinitely have a good, a good
regular cadence of, ofmentorship, like you talked
about of meeting and coachingthrough, learning new skills.
Right.
As you would expect, I guess,anytime any professional moves
to a new setting, there's goingto be some new skills, new
procedures, new systems tolearn.
(33:42):
And so going back to that sortof an original conversation of,
How do we plan for the new year?
You talked about reviewing andgetting more focused on the
financials, especiallyprofitability.
you talked about getting arenewed focus on your business
and what are the most impactfulthings that you do for patients
that you really want to focus inon.
You talked about a renewed focuson building your business around
(34:05):
your, the most important thingsin your life and making sure
that your business is servingthose things.
What else should the listenerthink about in terms of how you
approach planning for a newyear?
Nick (34:18):
Yeah.
I think the biggest thing, Iguess two things about that is,
You get, this is your business.
This is your life.
You have complete control andthat comes with a lot of
responsibility.
You have to own everything thatyou do, but that also means you
can practice how you want.
(34:38):
And one of the things that I, I,I always equate everything to
like sports.
And what you'll see is a newcoach gets hired and You know,
he's initially has this mindset,this is what he's going to do.
And if he's not quite assuccessful as he wants
initially, he'll start listeningto the outside noise and like
changing his way of doing,running an offense and doing it
(34:59):
to try to cater to make peoplehappy.
And at the day, he's going toget fired either way.
If you're going to do this, doit the way that you want,
because your passion, yourauthenticity cannot be
duplicated.
Right, I don't care how manypeople listen to my podcast, if
they are not passionate aboutdry eye, ocular health and
wellness, they don't have myenergy, you can't duplicate it.
(35:22):
And that's what patients feedoff of.
My patients that come in lovethat aspect.
So be true to yourself andpractice the way you want to.
I know you, when you first startout, it's really easy to say, I
just want people on theschedule.
What do you want?
I'll make it happen.
And that's how I started, but Iwas just finding that I was.
(35:42):
Busy, but unfulfilled, not happywith what I was doing.
But now that I put the people onthe schedule that I like to see,
I'm a better doctor.
I'm, I'm more energetic andit's, it's fun, right?
And that comes down to having avision.
You know, what do you want todo?
What's your goals for yourbusiness?
(36:02):
And that's where the EOS systemhas that, the VTO vision,
traction organizer, and you haveyour mission.
What's your, your, your.
your niche within that, yourfive year plan, your 10 year
targets, and that's amazingbecause when I had to sit down
and really think about that, youknow, what do you wanna do in
three words or three to fivewords?
(36:24):
You really are thinking aboutwhat, what gives you energy?
And my, my thing is I like togive people hope.
I like to give guidance andoffer solutions, right?
And if you hear what I talkabout, that's what I like about
having the associate like hopefor a better way of practicing.
You know, I like to guide andmentor.
And then if she has a issues, Ilike to give her solutions.
(36:44):
It applies to my patients.
It's who I am as person andthat's how I'm running my
business, how I live my life.
And our, our goal as a practiceis to optimize vision.
If we do anything, if we're notoptimizing vision, it's not what
we do in art.
My staff knows this.
We talk about it every meeting.
So just being true and knowingwhat you want.
(37:06):
And that that's a really big.
you know, existential question,but if you can narrow it down
and it can change over theseasons, it's not going to be
forever, but what do you reallywant out of life and how do you
live it?
And that VTO should, in myopinion, apply to everything you
do, right?
Inside and outside.
If I'm providing guidance, youknow, mentorship, giving people
(37:27):
hope, I'm happy.
So it's kind of applying that toyour business and life.
It's really cool.
Evon (37:34):
Yeah.
I, especially when so manypeople So often, the reason ODs
are going to go into privatepractice ownership is, is, that
freedom, freedom of choicearound how they practice, around
the patient experience, scope ofcare, freedom and flexibility
around their time eventually, tobe able to, like you mentioned,
build a business around theirlife, rather than the other way
(37:55):
around.
If you're not doing that, ifyou're not building towards
that, then you'll find what youmentioned earlier.
You have a really busy, youknow, high paying job
essentially, right?
And that's not a fulfilling wayto own a business.
that's probably the fast trackto burnout, right?
It's probably a lot of the timeswhere you hear doctors are
really unfulfilled as practiceowners.
(38:15):
it might be where theyaccidentally got into practice
ownership, really didn't have aclear vision around what they
wanted, or at least didn't buildtowards that vision.
They were building towardssomething else.
And so if you're going to go andtake on the work and stress and,
and the work that goes intoprivate practice ownership, you
might as well build towardssomething that you want to build
towards, something that'sfulfilling to you.
(38:37):
And, in one of the questionsyou've asked in some of your
episodes recently is, are youwilling to put in the work when
you're, you're not guaranteedthe outcome?
Right.
And that's, we don't know.
I mean, we can't control theoutcome.
We can't control patientdecisions.
We can't control.
There's a lot of the future inbusiness ownership we can't
control.
Are we willing to put in thework and get the right process
in place and do what needs to bedone knowing that there's that
(39:00):
uncertainty there.
Right.
And, and all of those consistentactions go a long way to, to at
least improving the probabilityof the outcome you want.
So I thought that was a really,really, compelling question.
Nick (39:12):
Yeah, it's, it's really fun, and at that point, you'll
figure out, are you a processdriven person or are you an
outcome driven person?
Because the process drivenperson loves the steps, loves
the off season, if you will, theplanning that goes into, what it
takes to get that goal.
Where if someone just wants theoutcome, they don't care how
(39:34):
they get there.
It's hard to find fulfillmentalong the way, but that's that's
why I like that.
That question is I'm willing toput in the work because I like
the journey, you know, I likethat, but I've set up my, my
environment to be enjoyable.
Like the people I work with, howI run my office, the way we
practice.
(39:54):
If I was doing someone else'sdream and practicing in a way
that I didn't find joy in.
I don't think, like, I don'tthink it'd be fun.
I'd have to leave.
I'd rather make less money, butbe going my own way.
It's just, that's, that's how Iam.
And knowing what you find joy inis really crucial to finding
(40:14):
happiness in this profession.
Evon (40:16):
Yeah.
And any last thoughts in termsof planning for the year,
business planning for the year,personal side?
what other things would you liketo leave or do you have in mind
in terms of reviewing your ownplanning and your practice for
the new year?
Nick (40:31):
Yeah, I think one of the most important things is Once
you set out a goal, you have tohave metrics, KPIs, something to
evaluate if you're makingprogress.
Because that's the hardest thingthat we come from an environment
where we get constant feedbackas students.
You did a good job, you get anA.
You do a bad job, you don't passthe practical, right?
(40:52):
You get in a private practiceand you're like, I showed up, I
saw patients, I don't know if Idid a good job, right?
You're really left wondering.
So, we've set up a lot ofmetrics where, The exam onlys,
the, our pre appointment rate,frame capture rate, lens capture
rate, and, just a couple, like,metrics that we track on a
(41:15):
weekly basis, we're constantlylooking at that, and having that
constant feedback lets us knowif we're going in the right
direction.
I think it's great to have avision, it's great to have
goals, but if you don't have away to get feedback on a, at
least a weekly basis You'regoing to be going in the wrong
direction and not realize ituntil it's too late and you're
never going to get there.
(41:35):
It's going to take you twice aslong.
So put guardrails in place andthey don't have to be like huge,
but just look at it.
And if the data, if you look atdata and you don't change
because of it or keep doingsomething because of it, if you
just look at it, it's a number.
It's not a good metric.
You have to be able to look atdata and say, based on this, I'm
(41:57):
going to keep doing what I'mdoing, or I'm going to make a
change.
You have to have KPIs that canmove the needle.
A lot of people love to collectdata, but they don't do anything
with it.
If this information doesn'tchange what you're going to do,
I don't think it's a goodmetric.
Right?
At least for you.
So, find metrics that match yourgoals.
And, like I said, the preappointment rate is important.
(42:17):
is one of the big things thatwill help us grow.
We're spending so much time inmarketing.
We're spending so much time inbuilding this practice.
You get that patient, you wantto keep them coming.
They're your bloodlines, right?
So we went from, I think we'reat 30 to 35 percent pre
appointment rate.
Well, we started tracking, we'reat over 75 percent now.
(42:37):
And it's because we've beenlooking at it.
I was asking my opticians, whatis your pain point?
Why is this not working?
Talk to the other doctor.
Why are we not getting thishappen?
And we've, I don't know how, butwe've honed our craft and now we
got down to a science and it'shelped us in all other aspects
of what we're doing.
How do we do the handoff to geta better frame capture rate?
How do we do the handoff to getmore of our supplements to get
(42:59):
them to follow the doctor's planof action?
And it's all because we hadmetrics that moved the needle
that made us Understand whetheror not we're moving towards our
goal for the for this year Sohave metrics that give you input
that you can adjust yourbusiness based on
Evon (43:15):
Hmm.
Interesting.
If anyone's listening has readthe book Atomic Habits by James
Clear, what he writes in thatbook is that you don't rise to
the, you don't rise to the levelof your goals, you fall to the
level of your systems.
And he even speculates you don'teven need goals because if
you're, if you're doing theprocesses and the habits, if
you're doing the actions on aconsistent basis, you're going
(43:38):
to eventually get to where youneed to go.
And, and those metrics, like youmentioned, are the scorecard for
those systems.
I mean, those metrics are thescorecard.
Hey, are we doing the actions weneed to be doing?
And are they working?
Or if not, let's adjust ouractions.
Let's adjust the inputs.
And, I like the way you focus onthese key metrics.
These are the things that youidentified that are most
(43:59):
impactful in your business.
And we are going to, we're goingto keep a heavy focus on these
and, the EOS operating system isreally good at that too, because
it, it starts you, you know, 10years down and it brings you
into shorter and shorter periodsof goals.
But the meat of it is it breaksthat down into shorter actions.
Like what do you need to do on,I think it's like a quarterly
(44:21):
basis, right?
The quarterly rocks.
Again, it really breaks thatdown into smaller chunks of
actions and it really bringsthat focus into, okay, what are
you accountable for?
What are the things you need tobe doing on a quarter, a
quarter, or a week to week basisin order to move things along?
So, love the focus in there onKPIs.
Any final thoughts?
Nick (44:42):
No, I mean just this is one of the most amazing
professions if you practice theway you want and I hear a lot of
doctors that are burned out orjust not finding fulfillment and
I challenge them to Really lookand see if they're practicing
the way they want to.
And if their, their goals lineup with their wants.
(45:03):
You know what I mean?
Like, I have a goal to do this,but I want to have more time.
It doesn't, doesn't line up.
Get those in alignment.
You should feel joy.
You shouldn't have the Sundayscaries where you're like, Oh,
no.
Gotta go in on Monday.
I'm excited to go in on Monday.
Mondays are my favorite days,which is ridiculous because
they're our busiest, but I'mpracticing, I get so much juice
(45:25):
from that.
So.
It can be the most fulfillingprofession, but you have to take
ownership of that.
Make this your dream.
Like, whatever that looks liketo you, you have that ability.
If you're in private practice,even if you're practicing for
someone else, find a way to makeit enjoyable because you have
that power.
We have the most amazingprofession in the world.
Evon (45:46):
When you think about the future of optometry, what
excites you the most?
Nick (45:51):
I think the most exciting thing for me is the way I see us
owning primary care.
I see the baby boomers gettingolder, there's not enough
ophthalmologists coming intopractice to be able to handle
all the surgical consults, allthe surgeries needed, we're in a
prime position and honestly whenI talk to the younger doctors,
(46:14):
the younger generation, theydon't want to own the practice,
they don't want thatresponsibility per se, so
people, old dogs like me thatwant to run businesses, that
want to mentor.
I am like a kid in the candystore.
There's an abundance of patientscoming in and there's abundance
of doctors looking for theenvironment.
(46:35):
I want to give them the bestenvironment that they can have
to work in and provide the bestpatient care.
I think it's going to be amazingbecause it's just, like you
said, putting in the effort, theopportunities are there.
So that has me very excited forthe future of optometry.
Evon (46:49):
Well, I, I love that, love that answer.
And I, I really appreciate yourtime here today.
for, for anyone listening,wanting to get in contact with
you, wanting to follow and learnmore about what you're doing,
where can people find, followand, and learn about you?
Nick (47:02):
Absolutely.
we're at Dr.
lilly@theultimateod.com.
That's, for our podcast.
You can find Optometry (47:07):
The Ultimate OD podcast on all your,
you know, iTunes, apple,Facebook, YouTube page.
We have stuff going out, so justhit me up.
I love to talk.
I talk to doctors all the time.
Send me a message, send me anemail, whatever it takes, and
I'll, I'll, I'll talk optometryfor hours, Evon.
Evon (47:26):
Well, we will put links to all that in the show notes
again, Dr.
Lilly, really appreciate yourtime.
For the listener, appreciateyour time and attention today.
We will catch you on the nextepisode.
In the meantime, take care.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Optometry Money
Podcast, where we're helping ODsall over the country make better
and better decisions aroundtheir money, their careers, and
their practices.
I am your host, Evon Mendrin,Certified Financial Planner(TM)
Practitioner, and owner ofOptometry Wealth Advisors.
An independent financialplanning firm just for
(00:25):
optometrists nationwide.
And thank you so much forlistening today.
Really appreciate your time andyour attention.
And on today's podcast, I amexcited to bring back to the
podcast, Dr.
Nick Lilly and Dr.
Lilly and I dive into lessonshe's learned as he's moved from
one location to another expandedlarger location, we talk about
(00:49):
his approach to onboarding anassociate optometrist.
we talk about his approach toplanning for the new year.
And although we're already inFebruary, I think there's a lot
to learn and a lot to gain fromhearing his approach to having a
renewed focus on the practicefinancials and profitability to
having a renewed focus in thepractice on their core
(01:11):
competencies, the core servicesthey wanted to provide to
patients.
And then finally, his renewedfocus on building his business
to be in service of his ideallifestyle and his personal
values.
And I'll put all of Dr.
Lilly's contact information inthe show notes, which you can
find by just scrolling down inwhichever app you're using, or
(01:32):
at the education hub at mywebsite,
www.optometrywealth.Com.
And you're there, check out allthe other articles, blog posts,
episodes we've done.
And if you're curious about whatit's like to work with a
optometry specific financialplanning firm, feel free to
schedule a no commitmentintroductory call.
(01:53):
We can talk about what's on yourmind financially and how I help
optometrists navigate those samequestions, those same topic and
issues.
nationwide.
And without further ado, here ismy conversation with Dr.
Nick Lilly.
welcome back to the OptometryMoney Podcast.
(02:14):
I am your host, Evon Mendrin,and I am excited to welcome back
to the podcast once again, Dr.
Nick Lilley.
Dr.
Lilley, thanks for coming backon.
Nick (02:23):
Thanks for having me, man.
It's been, I think about two,three years.
It's crazy.
You were just starting.
I was like getting ready to goto the next level.
I think we're both, we both getto re regroup and see where
we're at, how we did.
Evon (02:36):
That's right.
Yeah.
I was looking back.
You were episode nine and we'reover a hundred episodes beyond
that.
So that, that early appearanceon my podcast didn't tank your
career.
So it looks like we ended up.
Okay.
Yeah.
Nick (02:48):
Right, how funny is it though?
Cause I started my podcast inabout 2020.
If you look back at some ofthose early episodes, it's like,
oh man.
What was I thinking?
Right.
But with like everything, it'sthe reps, it's the consistency,
and I'm sure you have adifferent flow and feel, and you
can just do this in your sleep.
Now that's, that's how I atleast feel.
(03:09):
It's, it's awesome to see thatthe work pays off.
Evon (03:12):
Yes, yeah, I cringe a little bit at my, at how I
handle those early episodes, butyou know what?
You learn, you get better, andthat's all a part of it, right?
Those reps are a big part ofanything.
I mean, you talk about maybe anoptometrist getting the reps of
working with patients for thefirst time coming out of
college, you know, those thereps in anything new are super
important.
And I think we're afraid of thata lot of times, right?
We don't want to put ourselvesout there.
(03:32):
We don't want to make mistakes,but you learn from those
mistakes.
You, you get through that.
So, and I see you're, you'redoing not only your own podcast,
the Ultimate OD Podcast, you'redoing YouTube videos now.
So you're really puttingyourself out there too, right?
In all these different ways.
Nick (03:47):
Absolutely.
It's, it's one of the thingsthat I looked at is that, that's
the evolution of what I've seeninfluencers or people do.
So it was like pulling teeth toget me to do the podcast and
then be in front of the camera.
I talk for a living.
I mean, that's literally what Ido.
But when you're in front of acamera, you just kind of freeze
(04:08):
up.
It's different.
But because I do that, on aweekly basis now, I can have a
conversation with anyone.
When I, when you look at myoutlines, I used to outline like
pages.
Now it's like five words and Iknow where to take it.
And it's made me not only betterwith speaking, but I'm better at
communicating with my patients.
That's one of the coolest thingsabout this is I, I take what I,
(04:32):
what I, I want to know and I putit in a podcast or I put it in a
YouTube video and now I have itSimplified down and that's my
conversation.
My talking points with mypatients.
It's really really cool.
It's been beneficial in thatsense
Evon (04:45):
So that's interesting.
I've noticed the same thing inthat the things I talk about,
things related to my work withoptometrists, you have to, you
have to think, how am I going toexplain this in a podcast?
And that experience of learningmore and boiling it down,
translates to the work that I dowith clients and I can explain
it a lot clearer as I'm goingthrough that with real people in
(05:07):
real time.
sometimes I go way too far orway too long in the podcast and
I learned from that too, becauseI know when I'm talking to
someone in real time, Ishouldn't do that.
So, so you learn from, fromeverything you're doing here
with all these bits of content,but, let's talk about some
changes and updates that you'veseen in your own practice.
I know last time we talked, Youwere thinking about, you had
(05:27):
goals of adding an associate,you had goals of expanding.
Talk to us about where yourpractice is at right now.
Nick (05:33):
Excellent, yeah when we talked last I was in the
original place I started we hadabout 1,600 square feet one exam
room, workup room.
And that was, that was theextent.
And I had like six or sevenstaff in that small of a space.
And it was crowded.
We were on top of each other.
And, thankfully through justsheer persistence, I'm like, we
(05:58):
have to grow.
And I just started callingeveryone I could, knocking on
doors.
And it was quite the adventure.
because what you realize is,just because you think you have
a successful thriving business,when you go to a location
looking to lease a space.
They have a different idea ofwhat they want, what they're
looking for.
And, I, I missed out on a coupleof spots and I thought I was
(06:19):
competitive.
I'm, I'm, I was shocked thatthey didn't want a stable
business to be there like myown, but it was the square
footage that I needed.
And when you do an optometrypractice, you can't just go into
like a medical office.
And use their rooms.
We are really unique in what youneed.
So that fell through and Icalled one of my, colleagues
(06:40):
that I've worked with on lookingat different real estate and he
was a developer and we, we had adeal fall through about two
years ago.
I'm like, Hey, is that stillopen?
And we just hashed it out, madeit work and.
a 3,500 square foot new build,which is awesome because when we
built the building, I got todesign the spot.
It wasn't even built.
So usually you have to conformyour business to the space
(07:03):
that's there.
I got to design my space and hebuilt the building around that.
So it's like starting your ownpractice.
Clean slate, it was, it wasawesome.
So we have that, we have 3, 500square feet.
So we have six exam lanes, twoof them are dedicated dry eye.
we have eight full time staffmembers and I added an associate
(07:24):
doctor, which is, that was thebiggest, am I ready to delegate?
Am I ready to have anotherdoctor in there?
Because I operated for 13 yearsanswering to no one but myself.
So that was a, that was a bigjump, but it's been, been
awesome.
Evon (07:37):
yeah.
Fascinating.
So you, what did you look for asyou looked for new spaces?
What were some of the criteriathat you were looking for?
Nick (07:47):
Yep, number one I wanted to be in a heavy traffic area.
I wanted high visibility.
The spot I was in now, I wasthere for 13 years and I'd say
people that would come in and belike we didn't even know you
were here and That's the mostfrustrating thing you can hear
as a business owner.
You're putting stuff out onsocial media You're marketing in
the community You're trying tobe active and present and people
(08:09):
still don't know that you'rethere.
That was that was justfrustrating to me so we got
Thankfully, we're not on ourbusiest street, but we are busy
A stones throw away, from the,one of the busiest intersections
in Allendale, Michigan, andthere's Walgreens right on the
corner.
So I'm right next to aWalgreens.
If you know anything about realestate, Walgreens knows where to
(08:31):
pick a location.
So that made me feel good.
And then the two, high schoolsand middle schools are.
Literally right down the street.
So it's very busy in themorning.
We got street frontage and welit up our signs so people can
see us from the road.
And one of the things we did, weused to be Allendale Family
Vision.
We renamed ourself to FamilyVision Optical because Allendale
(08:55):
Family Vision, one, was geospecific, it was specific to a
location, and then if you hearthat, you're not sure, are they
selling glasses, is it familyplanning, what is that?
So by putting the optical inthere, we changed our logo to
have a pair of glasses, theyknow what we do.
So if you see us from thestreet, that's an eye care
office.
So we did that and, It's reallybeen good.
(09:16):
People are like, oh, how longhave you been here?
Well, actually we've been herefor a while, but it's it's new.
and then as we grow and look toscale We're building a brand
that's not centered around alocation So that was one of the
things that we did to help and Iwanted that high traffic area.
I also wanted That was in aprofessional setting nothing
(09:38):
against these other businesses,but we were next to a
restaurant.
There was some smoke shopsroofing like Okay, it just was a
bunch of hodgepodge of thingsand it wasn't necessarily
helping us build each other up.
I wanted to have more of amedical field.
As I look at the landscape whereI think optometry is going, I
think we're going to more of amedical model.
(09:59):
So I want to be around moreprofessionals, whether it's an
insurance agent or, you know,other doctors, other
professionals in that sense.
That's the clientele I'm tryingto, trying to be around and
serve.
Evon (10:10):
Gotcha.
And you, you, that'sinteresting.
You, you were looking for thetraffic.
You obviously had plenty ofspace that you wanted to fill
what you, where you felt yourpractice was going.
you mentioned six lanes.
So are you and your associateboth working full doctor days?
How, how is that scheduleddivvied up?
Nick (10:26):
Yeah.
So, and that is one of thebiggest things that I've really
had to ask myself is what do Iwant?
Right?
I was working four and a halfdays.
So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,and we work nine to noon on
Fridays and I heard everyonetell you if you hear anyone
Talking about private practiceis you have to work on your
business not in your businessget out of the exam lane and
(10:49):
that's when you really grow andMy thought was, well, what am I
going to do with that time?
And the, the advisors, thepeople I've talked to said, you
just set that time aside and youwill find a way to fill it.
And I was like, okay, thatsounds good.
So the goal was that the newdoctor that came on, she did not
want to work full time.
So she works Tuesday, Wednesday,Thursday, full days.
(11:11):
And then she works the night andnoon on Fridays.
I started off Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday, and nothing on
Thursday and Friday.
And after about three weeks, itjust, I didn't like how it felt.
if I'm in the office and I'mgoing to show up, I want, I want
to see patients.
That's just kind of how, how Idid it.
So what I've done now, and thishas took some time, I work nine
(11:32):
to six on Mondays and I havefull days.
I mean, I booked myself out.
I see about 25 comprehensives.
Tuesday, Wednesday, andThursday, I work nine to three.
So a school day and then I getout and I saw patients and I get
out and I get to be with myfamily.
I saw a graphic that, the timeyou're going to spend with your
kids as they get to a certainage, it just drops off.
(11:54):
So I'm trying to take fulladvantage of that and still see
patients.
So it's been, it's been one ofthe most fulfilling things is I
get in, I get to see patientsand then I get to go home and
spend time with family.
And that one day on Friday withno patients, and no other
obligations is enough for me towork on the practice.
So it's been really a greatbalance, to have that.
And another thing I noticed waswhen you have an established
(12:16):
practice and you bring onsomeone new, my patients were
loyal to me.
I tried to block off that time.
So they scheduled with her.
They were just scheduling weeksout and I have higher overhead.
I have a higher staff.
I have a doctor that has to getpaid.
I'm like, I need to seepatients.
So we had to figure out a happymedium in that sense, because
(12:37):
they weren't, I was just goingto work less and not have the
revenue that I needed to be ableto see patients and still have
that cashflow coming in.
Evon (12:45):
Gotcha.
Going through that expansionphase now, and especially going
through the build out, designingthe new location.
Are there any lessons that youlearned that you can share with
the audience around, aroundbuilding out the location,
designing it, moving into it,marketing it?
Like what, what lessons have youlearned that maybe you didn't
know when you first started thatwould be helpful to share?
Nick (13:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Two, two things stand out rightaway.
Number one, Optometry is aunique profession.
Work with optometricprofessionals.
So I actually had a secondoffice.
I opened in 2011.
Okay.
2014 I opened a second officeand I designed this on my own
and I didn't maximize my spaceand then I had a couple of
(13:29):
opportunities where I was gonnahave another office and Went
through the design process withtheir people the people that
represented the the space and itjust it didn't flow It didn't
feel right So when I did this, Iworked with Optometric
Architects and iDesigns, twowell known people in the
industry, and I got amazingresults.
(13:50):
I, I wrote up my plan on a,piece of graph paper, sent it to
iDesigns, and what they did, ornot iDesigns, Optometric
Architects, and they made itfit, they made the flow so much
better, and I'm like, this isamazing.
They maximized the rooms,maximized the flow, thought it
all through, how doors open,where you're going to put
chairs, and it wasn't, it justmade sense.
(14:12):
And then in terms of design,iDesigns is amazing at optical.
I, I knew that they were goingto be more expensive.
but I wanted to invest insomething that provides 60
percent of my revenue.
So going with them was, I thinkwas awesome.
Like that, that really helpedmake it pop.
It gave me the feel that Iwanted and I had a vision.
(14:34):
I was able to express that tothem and they made it a reality.
So working with professionalsthat know your business, kind of
like when you're working withan, a CPA like yourself, I now
have so much more value inpeople that know what I do.
that understand optometry as awhole, it makes a huge
difference.
Evon (14:50):
Yeah.
Even like you said, you knew itwas more expensive going in, but
you knew the results.
Was probably gonna be higherquality.
It was gonna meet, it was gonnafit your business better because
they knew optometry.
Right?
They knew your, your businesseven better.
Yeah.
Nick (15:03):
hundred percent.
And, and, and the second thingthat I would say, if I, if I add
on is I knew that, we weremoving in, in October, whenever
you do anything like that, youwant your marketing, you want
everything set and planned.
So starting in March, I workwith a company called National
Strategic who knows again,optometry.
(15:23):
I said, Hey, we're moving here.
Where are my blind spots?
And then also we need to fillthis up as soon as we get in
there.
So we had a, PPC.
So paper, like Google ads,
Evon (15:33):
mm-hmm
Nick (15:35):
plan set in place.
We had a marketing plan.
We got in there and it wasn'tlike, okay, now what are we
going to do?
And it's going to take threemonths to get it.
We had a plan in place for,we're going to move in this day.
These are all the boxes we'regoing to check off and let's
market and build this out asquick as we possibly can.
And we've seen a great amount ofgrowth.
Right away because of havingthat plan in place.
Evon (15:56):
Very cool.
Very cool.
going back to spending more timeworking on the practice versus
in it.
I, I want to talk to you abouthow you've approached, you know,
cause I've heard recent podcastepisodes that you've done on
your podcast.
You have a lot of great episodesabout mentality and a goal
setting and preparation.
And I want to ask you a littlebit about how you prepare for
(16:17):
the new year.
We're in January, 2025.
So we've already gone throughthe New Year's Eve.
It's already 2025, but how didyou approach looking at this new
year and reviewing yourbusiness?
asking yourself questions, areasof improvement.
How did you approach that as youwent into the new year?
Nick (16:38):
Great question.
And that, that's something thatalso has evolved over the past
two years.
two years ago when I said we'regonna put this, this in motion
to get to where I'm at rightnow.
Profit First by MikeMichalowicz.
I read that book and I thoughtthat was amazing.
And I said, if I want to dothis, I need to start focusing
on the business side of things.
(16:58):
We need to make money.
So I was looking at all myrevenue, like what am I doing in
Optical?
What am I doing for my examfees?
And I revamped all that andsaid, if I'm going to do this,
I'm going to make money.
Like, let's get in there and getthat.
And.
What happened was my businessgrew.
We were more efficient.
(17:19):
It's that pumpkin principle like80 percent of your growth is
from 20 percent or you you knowthe the saying of that But so we
we got rid of the outliers Westopped trying to be the
Cheesecake Factory and haveeverything and we were gonna be
Ruth's Chris.
We have a great steak We don'thave a kid's menu.
We we do what we do when we doit.
Well, and we've we focused ourour goals on dry eye, ocular
(17:45):
health and wellness, and thenour optical.
Anything outside of that was notin our, in our, in our realm.
And then when it got to thisyear, I spent the past, you
know, 13 years trying to be thepractice that I think everyone
else would admire.
You know, I want to do this muchrevenue, I want to do the high
end optical, I want to do themedical stuff.
(18:07):
And it was great, it gave me agoal But at the end of the day,
I wasn't necessarily makingmyself happy.
I'm like, I'm checking out theseboxes.
I've got them and I still am notoverly fulfilled, right?
I have this hunger.
There's something missing.
So this year it was reallydifferent.
I really sat back and said,where do I want to go?
What do I want out of the nextdecade of my life?
(18:30):
And how do I want to practice?
What kind of patients do I wantto see?
Do I want to grow and expand?
And that's I kind of came to theconclusion of what I said to you
is I like seeing patients, but Ilike being home with my family.
I found a happy medium, a doctorthat works the hours that I
don't.
So by having an associate, I'veopened up my time.
(18:52):
And then the whole thought ofgrowing and expanding, that's
kind of my, how much of aheadache do I want?
If I do it, it's going to bemerely because it gives me joy,
not because I'm chasing amonetary goal.
And everything else previouslyused to be based on money.
And you have to make a living.
You have to be profitable, butwhat does your lifestyle mean?
(19:14):
What does that look like?
And, I've gotten really good atlooking at my personal finances,
what I want to accomplish withmy wife, with my kids.
And now I'm building my lifearound that versus.
building my life around thepractice that I'm running.
It's, it's kind of reversed inthat sense, but I really sat
down and thought, what do I wantthat gives me joy?
What makes me happy?
(19:34):
When do I come home and I had anamazing day?
How do I repeat that over andover again?
So it was more of a looking atwhat I wanted out of life versus
what I wanted the practice to doand reverse engineering that.
Does that, does that make sense?
Evon (19:47):
Yeah.
So to, to kind of break thatdown a little bit, number one is
you had a better focus on thefinancials of the business,
especially profit.
And what's great about thatProfit First book and sort of
mentality is that even if, evenif you don't go the full lengths
and dealing with the way thatthe accounts are set up and, and
all of that, the gist of the, ofwhat it should be giving you is
(20:11):
that you shouldn't be a slave toyour business.
You should be.
Drawing an income from yourbusiness.
Your business should beprofitable.
You should be enjoying thefruits of your labor.
you know, that's one of themajor takeaways of the book is
to focus on profit because youshould be enjoying the The
fruits of your labor.
And, and so it sounds like youhad a renewed focus on that.
What's happening in thebusiness.
(20:33):
Are we profitable?
Let's maintain that.
second thing it sounds like isthat you focused on your, your
best key core competencies.
Like what do we want to be thevery best at because they are
the most impactful.
And for you, it was dry eye.
It was, what
Nick (20:48):
I could help
Evon (20:48):
was dry eye.
and then what was the third?
Nick (20:51):
Optical.
Evon (20:52):
Optical.
Okay.
Yes, that's right.
Yes.
The optical.
So you, you honed in on theseother things on these, on these
key things.
What were some of the otherthings that you felt like were
taking resources from thebusiness or time or energy?
Like what, what were some ofthose other things that you
trimmed down?
Nick (21:09):
Yeah, two, two of the big things.
One was, scleral lenses.
I love the impact it had onpatients.
However, when I look at it, theamount of time it took to fit a
patient, their satisfaction washigh initially, but once they
saw what they saw, they justwanted that again and again, and
(21:30):
they weren't necessarily willingto pay for it.
They, they, they got it, and ifyou're good at what you do when
it comes to sclerals.
They just expect it to be thateasy every time.
And it's an art.
It really takes up a lot ofchair time, but in addition, it
takes up a lot of staff time.
And what I was seeing is mystaff only had so much
bandwidth.
I couldn't have dry eye,optical, them knowing about
(21:53):
macular degeneration and thesupplements we want to do, and
know about sclerals.
So where was our, where was mypassion and where was our
focus,and what moved the needlein terms of the business?
So, that's why we kind of cutsclerals.
In addition, one of the hardestthings that we have in our
office is hiring new opticians.
Because it's a whole newlanguage, it's a whole new,
(22:14):
dealing with vision insurances.
We cut down our options in whatwe offer.
So we have basically threeoptions.
This is what we offer in termsof lenses.
And if you don't like that,great.
You don't have to get it fromus.
We're just not the office foryou.
We deal in high end stuff.
If you want cheap, totally fine.
You have to do what's best foryou and your family.
(22:35):
We're just not the office foryou.
So we, we raised our prices, butI said if we're gonna do that,
we're gonna give them value.
They're gonna get the bestquality they can and we're gonna
own it and we had a couplepatients that didn't like it
They they they said this is tooexpensive We don't see the value
in it and I just told my staffwe're not the office for them
(22:59):
trust Trust me We're gonna finda group of people that love what
we do and they're gonna be ourloyal followers And that's what
that's what we've done and it'sreally worked well for us
Evon (23:10):
Yeah, that's fascinating.
You, you focused in on who do weserve best and what do we do for
them and, and those highestimpact activities and focused in
on that.
And then lastly, you, you talkedabout, reviewing sort of what
the business means to yourfamily, right?
And sort of reviewing yourpersonal values and what you,
what you want your business todo for you rather than are you a
(23:33):
slave to your business andbecame more intentional about
building your business aroundthat.
And has that been something thatyou've struggled with before?
Have you felt like you werespending too much time in the
business.
Like your whole life was led bythe business instead of these
other things that you felt likevalue were more valuable to you.
(23:54):
Like, how did that suddenly comeup over the last year?
what, how have you, how have youplanned around that?
Nick (24:00):
One of the biggest things that I really thought about was
I had a really good job, but ifI wasn't there, we weren't
making money.
And that's a great job, but it'snot a business.
One of the things I wanted to dowas be able to be, go on
vacation with my, my kids andfamily because I only have a lot
(24:21):
of fixed time with them.
I'm going to take the vacationregardless, but I hated that I'd
leave and my patients weren'tbeing served.
There'd be a red eye or there'dbe something where they needed
help, and I wasn't there.
My staff, again, depends on me,and if I'm not there to drive
revenue, we're, we're payingthem money and they're sitting
there and doing nothing, right?
(24:42):
so I wanted to have a way thatwe, we could have a business in
that sense.
So that I, I just really focusedon how do I I practice the way I
want but also have it provideincome when I'm not there and it
really just came down to how doI want to spend my time in the
office and out and outside theoffice I know That when my kids
(25:05):
are playing sports, they'regoing to do things I can always
be there and it was it's fineIt's a sacrifice my wife
understands the kids get it dadhas to take care of the business
That's what he does, but it waskilling me inside that I'd
missed a an opportunity to bethere that's not going to always
be there.
I can work for the rest of mylife, but my time with my kids,
is fleeting.
(25:26):
How do I get so I can see them?
And it initially was, well, I'lljust, we'll, we'll lower our
lifestyle.
We'll get less money.
But when I talked to otherdoctors, other people that have
done what I want to do, theyfound a way to do both.
I'm like, I, I just got tochange my mindset, practice how
I want to practice, but set up.
(25:47):
the infrastructure to have anactual business.
And that's kind of what'sevolved is, EOS, the
entrepreneurial operatingsystem.
it is something that I'm reallygoing deep and hard into.
I'm hoping to implement in thenext, the first six months, the
first two quarters of the year.
And what I found there issystems scale.
Having systems will allow me tobe out of the office and not be
(26:08):
the sole reason that we're,we're successful.
Now, granted, I'm My managers,the other doctors, they're
probably going to be not quiteas good as I am, but there'll be
80 percent of it, and that'sgood enough.
And I had to just accept that mypatients will still show up,
they'll still come, even if theywere about 80 percent as good.
(26:29):
And that was a really, meletting my ego aside, right?
Letting things go and teachingand training them to handle
those, those things that Icouldn't.
Evon (26:39):
Yeah.
And so it took you to really sitdown and say, okay, what's most
important to me in my life andlet me adjust my business around
it.
And there are.
there are a few differentmotivations for hiring an
associate.
One of them is capacityconstraints.
So you want to get through thenext revenue band or, or
whatever it is, meet thatincreasing patient demand.
(26:59):
Part of it is wanting more timefreedom and allowing yourself to
step out of the practice,knowing that patients can still
be seen if you're not there,allowing you to do other things
that you want to do in yourlife.
And it sounds like you've done alittle bit of both.
You found ways to improve thebusiness as well as to buy
yourself some time, right?
Which is, which is interesting.
(27:20):
Sometimes those goals cancompete against one another.
And it sounds like you found away to do a little bit of both.
Nick (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely, and the beauty of it is, it's given me
more juice, because the doctorthat I brought in, loved her to
death, she's absolutely amazing,and one of the biggest things
that we connected on was, webelieve in practicing the same
way.
We believe in the dry eyeaspect, the ocular health and
(27:47):
wellness.
I can see her patients, she cansee mine, and we know we're not
going in different directions.
We're rowing in the samedirection.
That's been awesome, butthroughout this process, I
realized that a lot of what Ido, I just took it as like every
doctor does this, and I, I'vedeveloped some skills and
abilities over the past decadethat aren't just common sense,
(28:11):
which I, which I thought theywere, and I've been able to help
and mentor her a little bit tojust, see herself as a business.
How does this make sense?
And I love that aspect.
I really look forward to,eventually getting big enough
where either we can have externsor residents come if we grow and
expand.
I do like the idea of mentoringother doctors.
(28:31):
It's kind of what we do in ourpodcast is we have information
that we love to share.
I like applying it and helping,helping the, Other doctors be
better than they think they canbe or operate in a way that
they're still profitable.
They're still operating at ahigh level, but they're better
than they thought they could be.
It's really been fulfilling inthat sense.
(28:52):
So I gave myself another tool.
It's not just in the office orbusiness owner.
There's a mentorship aspect thatI really, really enjoy.
Evon (29:01):
That's, that's really cool because I feel like I hear a lot
where associate doctors wantthat mentorship, especially when
you compare it to higher, muchhigher paying, potentially much
higher paying corporate jobs.
The contrast is that in, in manyprivate practice settings are
able to get more of thatmentorship from, from the owning
doctor or other, other doctorsthere.
(29:22):
And I feel like that would be a,go a long way in terms of
Getting that associate onboardedand making that transition
really successful is giving themthat mentorship that they need.
But it also sounds like youfound a really good like culture
fit.
Like you found someone that seesthe way you practice or sees
optometry very similar to theway that you practice.
(29:44):
Was that a result of hiring?
Was that a result of training?
Like how, how did that comeabout?
Nick (29:49):
Yeah, so the Hardest part about this whole expansion thing
has been finding a doctor.
I've had opportunities to buyand acquire practices, but I
can't find a doctor to go there.
So it's really hard to grow andexpand.
So my mentality has been, I'drather have it all under one
roof because if Things get real.
(30:10):
And we had an instance where shewas sick for a couple days and I
was able, because we're soearly, to absorb her schedule.
And again, I was a little busyon certain areas, but I could
still handle it all, right?
Again, probably doing more thanI should, but I like it all
under one roof so I can have myhands in it kind of guide.
And what we did was, we just hadtons of conversations of, this
(30:33):
is what we believe in.
This is how we practice.
This is what we do.
And we just jived.
The thing I liked about her wasoutside of optometry or whatnot,
I could have a conversation.
We could go out to dinner andtalk about the same things.
We have a similar liking innutrition.
We like the You know, medicalside of dry eye, not the
(30:55):
aesthetic side.
So we're on the same page there.
And we could just riff off eachother for hours.
And it felt like I was reallyjust talking to a friend.
Whereas when I talked to some ofthe young doctors coming
straight out of school, it was alittle rough.
It was a little of like, theyare really, really fresh.
I couldn't trust them to justhandle their own schedule
(31:17):
without me really babysitting.
Now again, that's not everydoctor.
Some doctors are going to be alittle better than others, but
then you have to figure out, dothey want to work for what
you're willing to pay?
Do they like the area thatyou're at?
There's a lot more variables, sothe fact that we jived, she had
three years of experienceworking in other practices, I
(31:38):
could trust her to be a gooddoctor.
I've never once questioned her,performance.
Patient Care Aspect, there'sjust been some flow and
efficiency things that she's hadto learn.
And part of that is because whenyou're a private practice doctor
you always try to do things atthe least expensive way
possible.
So that means you put a lot ofit on your plate.
Well when she came in she wasused to having amazing techs,
(32:00):
amazing opticians, where shecould just kind of show up, do
her doctor thing, and all thebusiness side would be taken
care of.
Where I have just put it all onmy shoulders.
I, I sell from the chair.
I talk about the procedures.
I'm not afraid to talk about thecost of everything.
Where she can have thoseconversations, but she's not
used to having them.
(32:20):
Kind of like we were talkingabout, when I talk about the
podcast or, the YouTube videos,I'm having these conversations.
She's not used to doing it atthat capacity, so kind of, I I
literally, what we do once aweek, we have a one on one.
We have lunch together and I'lljust go through my schedule.
This is my patient.
This is what I did.
This is how I approached it andlet her ask me questions and I
(32:42):
go, what is your mindset?
What are you thinking?
All right, this is what I wasthinking and let her bounce
things off my head and I go, I'mnot the only way, but at least
see what I do and haveperspective.
And that's been a game changer.
She's now like seeing thingsfrom a different light and I've
helped focus her in on what canget you bogged down in an exam
(33:03):
and what, what's going to makeyou more efficient.
And now she's more efficient,but still providing that amazing
patient care and still beingauthentic and true to herself.
So it's, it's been a work, butmeeting weekly and just talking
about what we do has been veryhelpful as well.
Evon (33:19):
weekly meetings.
Yeah, it sounds like it's a,it's a mix of, the hiring
process, but it sounds like youdefinitely have a good, a good
regular cadence of, ofmentorship, like you talked
about of meeting and coachingthrough, learning new skills.
Right.
As you would expect, I guess,anytime any professional moves
to a new setting, there's goingto be some new skills, new
procedures, new systems tolearn.
(33:42):
And so going back to that sortof an original conversation of,
How do we plan for the new year?
You talked about reviewing andgetting more focused on the
financials, especiallyprofitability.
you talked about getting arenewed focus on your business
and what are the most impactfulthings that you do for patients
that you really want to focus inon.
You talked about a renewed focuson building your business around
(34:05):
your, the most important thingsin your life and making sure
that your business is servingthose things.
What else should the listenerthink about in terms of how you
approach planning for a newyear?
Nick (34:18):
Yeah.
I think the biggest thing, Iguess two things about that is,
You get, this is your business.
This is your life.
You have complete control andthat comes with a lot of
responsibility.
You have to own everything thatyou do, but that also means you
can practice how you want.
(34:38):
And one of the things that I, I,I always equate everything to
like sports.
And what you'll see is a newcoach gets hired and You know,
he's initially has this mindset,this is what he's going to do.
And if he's not quite assuccessful as he wants
initially, he'll start listeningto the outside noise and like
changing his way of doing,running an offense and doing it
(34:59):
to try to cater to make peoplehappy.
And at the day, he's going toget fired either way.
If you're going to do this, doit the way that you want,
because your passion, yourauthenticity cannot be
duplicated.
Right, I don't care how manypeople listen to my podcast, if
they are not passionate aboutdry eye, ocular health and
wellness, they don't have myenergy, you can't duplicate it.
(35:22):
And that's what patients feedoff of.
My patients that come in lovethat aspect.
So be true to yourself andpractice the way you want to.
I know you, when you first startout, it's really easy to say, I
just want people on theschedule.
What do you want?
I'll make it happen.
And that's how I started, but Iwas just finding that I was.
(35:42):
Busy, but unfulfilled, not happywith what I was doing.
But now that I put the people onthe schedule that I like to see,
I'm a better doctor.
I'm, I'm more energetic andit's, it's fun, right?
And that comes down to having avision.
You know, what do you want todo?
What's your goals for yourbusiness?
(36:02):
And that's where the EOS systemhas that, the VTO vision,
traction organizer, and you haveyour mission.
What's your, your, your.
your niche within that, yourfive year plan, your 10 year
targets, and that's amazingbecause when I had to sit down
and really think about that, youknow, what do you wanna do in
three words or three to fivewords?
(36:24):
You really are thinking aboutwhat, what gives you energy?
And my, my thing is I like togive people hope.
I like to give guidance andoffer solutions, right?
And if you hear what I talkabout, that's what I like about
having the associate like hopefor a better way of practicing.
You know, I like to guide andmentor.
And then if she has a issues, Ilike to give her solutions.
(36:44):
It applies to my patients.
It's who I am as person andthat's how I'm running my
business, how I live my life.
And our, our goal as a practiceis to optimize vision.
If we do anything, if we're notoptimizing vision, it's not what
we do in art.
My staff knows this.
We talk about it every meeting.
So just being true and knowingwhat you want.
(37:06):
And that that's a really big.
you know, existential question,but if you can narrow it down
and it can change over theseasons, it's not going to be
forever, but what do you reallywant out of life and how do you
live it?
And that VTO should, in myopinion, apply to everything you
do, right?
Inside and outside.
If I'm providing guidance, youknow, mentorship, giving people
(37:27):
hope, I'm happy.
So it's kind of applying that toyour business and life.
It's really cool.
Evon (37:34):
Yeah.
I, especially when so manypeople So often, the reason ODs
are going to go into privatepractice ownership is, is, that
freedom, freedom of choicearound how they practice, around
the patient experience, scope ofcare, freedom and flexibility
around their time eventually, tobe able to, like you mentioned,
build a business around theirlife, rather than the other way
(37:55):
around.
If you're not doing that, ifyou're not building towards
that, then you'll find what youmentioned earlier.
You have a really busy, youknow, high paying job
essentially, right?
And that's not a fulfilling wayto own a business.
that's probably the fast trackto burnout, right?
It's probably a lot of the timeswhere you hear doctors are
really unfulfilled as practiceowners.
(38:15):
it might be where theyaccidentally got into practice
ownership, really didn't have aclear vision around what they
wanted, or at least didn't buildtowards that vision.
They were building towardssomething else.
And so if you're going to go andtake on the work and stress and,
and the work that goes intoprivate practice ownership, you
might as well build towardssomething that you want to build
towards, something that'sfulfilling to you.
(38:37):
And, in one of the questionsyou've asked in some of your
episodes recently is, are youwilling to put in the work when
you're, you're not guaranteedthe outcome?
Right.
And that's, we don't know.
I mean, we can't control theoutcome.
We can't control patientdecisions.
We can't control.
There's a lot of the future inbusiness ownership we can't
control.
Are we willing to put in thework and get the right process
in place and do what needs to bedone knowing that there's that
(39:00):
uncertainty there.
Right.
And, and all of those consistentactions go a long way to, to at
least improving the probabilityof the outcome you want.
So I thought that was a really,really, compelling question.
Nick (39:12):
Yeah, it's, it's really fun, and at that point, you'll
figure out, are you a processdriven person or are you an
outcome driven person?
Because the process drivenperson loves the steps, loves
the off season, if you will, theplanning that goes into, what it
takes to get that goal.
Where if someone just wants theoutcome, they don't care how
(39:34):
they get there.
It's hard to find fulfillmentalong the way, but that's that's
why I like that.
That question is I'm willing toput in the work because I like
the journey, you know, I likethat, but I've set up my, my
environment to be enjoyable.
Like the people I work with, howI run my office, the way we
practice.
(39:54):
If I was doing someone else'sdream and practicing in a way
that I didn't find joy in.
I don't think, like, I don'tthink it'd be fun.
I'd have to leave.
I'd rather make less money, butbe going my own way.
It's just, that's, that's how Iam.
And knowing what you find joy inis really crucial to finding
(40:14):
happiness in this profession.
Evon (40:16):
Yeah.
And any last thoughts in termsof planning for the year,
business planning for the year,personal side?
what other things would you liketo leave or do you have in mind
in terms of reviewing your ownplanning and your practice for
the new year?
Nick (40:31):
Yeah, I think one of the most important things is Once
you set out a goal, you have tohave metrics, KPIs, something to
evaluate if you're makingprogress.
Because that's the hardest thingthat we come from an environment
where we get constant feedbackas students.
You did a good job, you get anA.
You do a bad job, you don't passthe practical, right?
(40:52):
You get in a private practiceand you're like, I showed up, I
saw patients, I don't know if Idid a good job, right?
You're really left wondering.
So, we've set up a lot ofmetrics where, The exam onlys,
the, our pre appointment rate,frame capture rate, lens capture
rate, and, just a couple, like,metrics that we track on a
(41:15):
weekly basis, we're constantlylooking at that, and having that
constant feedback lets us knowif we're going in the right
direction.
I think it's great to have avision, it's great to have
goals, but if you don't have away to get feedback on a, at
least a weekly basis You'regoing to be going in the wrong
direction and not realize ituntil it's too late and you're
never going to get there.
(41:35):
It's going to take you twice aslong.
So put guardrails in place andthey don't have to be like huge,
but just look at it.
And if the data, if you look atdata and you don't change
because of it or keep doingsomething because of it, if you
just look at it, it's a number.
It's not a good metric.
You have to be able to look atdata and say, based on this, I'm
(41:57):
going to keep doing what I'mdoing, or I'm going to make a
change.
You have to have KPIs that canmove the needle.
A lot of people love to collectdata, but they don't do anything
with it.
If this information doesn'tchange what you're going to do,
I don't think it's a goodmetric.
Right?
At least for you.
So, find metrics that match yourgoals.
And, like I said, the preappointment rate is important.
(42:17):
is one of the big things thatwill help us grow.
We're spending so much time inmarketing.
We're spending so much time inbuilding this practice.
You get that patient, you wantto keep them coming.
They're your bloodlines, right?
So we went from, I think we'reat 30 to 35 percent pre
appointment rate.
Well, we started tracking, we'reat over 75 percent now.
(42:37):
And it's because we've beenlooking at it.
I was asking my opticians, whatis your pain point?
Why is this not working?
Talk to the other doctor.
Why are we not getting thishappen?
And we've, I don't know how, butwe've honed our craft and now we
got down to a science and it'shelped us in all other aspects
of what we're doing.
How do we do the handoff to geta better frame capture rate?
How do we do the handoff to getmore of our supplements to get
(42:59):
them to follow the doctor's planof action?
And it's all because we hadmetrics that moved the needle
that made us Understand whetheror not we're moving towards our
goal for the for this year Sohave metrics that give you input
that you can adjust yourbusiness based on
Evon (43:15):
Hmm.
Interesting.
If anyone's listening has readthe book Atomic Habits by James
Clear, what he writes in thatbook is that you don't rise to
the, you don't rise to the levelof your goals, you fall to the
level of your systems.
And he even speculates you don'teven need goals because if
you're, if you're doing theprocesses and the habits, if
you're doing the actions on aconsistent basis, you're going
(43:38):
to eventually get to where youneed to go.
And, and those metrics, like youmentioned, are the scorecard for
those systems.
I mean, those metrics are thescorecard.
Hey, are we doing the actions weneed to be doing?
And are they working?
Or if not, let's adjust ouractions.
Let's adjust the inputs.
And, I like the way you focus onthese key metrics.
These are the things that youidentified that are most
(43:59):
impactful in your business.
And we are going to, we're goingto keep a heavy focus on these
and, the EOS operating system isreally good at that too, because
it, it starts you, you know, 10years down and it brings you
into shorter and shorter periodsof goals.
But the meat of it is it breaksthat down into shorter actions.
Like what do you need to do on,I think it's like a quarterly
(44:21):
basis, right?
The quarterly rocks.
Again, it really breaks thatdown into smaller chunks of
actions and it really bringsthat focus into, okay, what are
you accountable for?
What are the things you need tobe doing on a quarter, a
quarter, or a week to week basisin order to move things along?
So, love the focus in there onKPIs.
Any final thoughts?
Nick (44:42):
No, I mean just this is one of the most amazing
professions if you practice theway you want and I hear a lot of
doctors that are burned out orjust not finding fulfillment and
I challenge them to Really lookand see if they're practicing
the way they want to.
And if their, their goals lineup with their wants.
(45:03):
You know what I mean?
Like, I have a goal to do this,but I want to have more time.
It doesn't, doesn't line up.
Get those in alignment.
You should feel joy.
You shouldn't have the Sundayscaries where you're like, Oh,
no.
Gotta go in on Monday.
I'm excited to go in on Monday.
Mondays are my favorite days,which is ridiculous because
they're our busiest, but I'mpracticing, I get so much juice
(45:25):
from that.
So.
It can be the most fulfillingprofession, but you have to take
ownership of that.
Make this your dream.
Like, whatever that looks liketo you, you have that ability.
If you're in private practice,even if you're practicing for
someone else, find a way to makeit enjoyable because you have
that power.
We have the most amazingprofession in the world.
Evon (45:46):
When you think about the future of optometry, what
excites you the most?
Nick (45:51):
I think the most exciting thing for me is the way I see us
owning primary care.
I see the baby boomers gettingolder, there's not enough
ophthalmologists coming intopractice to be able to handle
all the surgical consults, allthe surgeries needed, we're in a
prime position and honestly whenI talk to the younger doctors,
(46:14):
the younger generation, theydon't want to own the practice,
they don't want thatresponsibility per se, so
people, old dogs like me thatwant to run businesses, that
want to mentor.
I am like a kid in the candystore.
There's an abundance of patientscoming in and there's abundance
of doctors looking for theenvironment.
(46:35):
I want to give them the bestenvironment that they can have
to work in and provide the bestpatient care.
I think it's going to be amazingbecause it's just, like you
said, putting in the effort, theopportunities are there.
So that has me very excited forthe future of optometry.
Evon (46:49):
Well, I, I love that, love that answer.
And I, I really appreciate yourtime here today.
for, for anyone listening,wanting to get in contact with
you, wanting to follow and learnmore about what you're doing,
where can people find, followand, and learn about you?
Nick (47:02):
Absolutely.
we're at Dr.
lilly@theultimateod.com.
That's, for our podcast.
You can find Optometry (47:07):
The Ultimate OD podcast on all your,
you know, iTunes, apple,Facebook, YouTube page.
We have stuff going out, so justhit me up.
I love to talk.
I talk to doctors all the time.
Send me a message, send me anemail, whatever it takes, and
I'll, I'll, I'll talk optometryfor hours, Evon.
Evon (47:26):
Well, we will put links to all that in the show notes
again, Dr.
Lilly, really appreciate yourtime.
For the listener, appreciateyour time and attention today.
We will catch you on the nextepisode.
In the meantime, take care.
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