Scaling an Optometry Practice and Embracing Family Entrepreneurship with Tony and Kim Turin

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In this episode of The Optometry Money Podcast, Evon Mendrin sits down with Dr. Tony Turin and his wife, Kim Turin, to discuss how they intentionally built and scaled their optometry practice from a cold start to three thriving locations. As a husband-and-wife power team, they share the lessons they've learned along the way—balancing business and family, maintaining culture across multiple locations, and making strategic financial decisions that fueled their growth.

Tony and Kim talk about the challenges and rewards of practice ownership, how they divide roles to complement each other’s strengths, and what key financial and practice metrics they track to ensure their locations remain financially strong. Whether you're an OD considering practice ownership or already managing a growing business, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

Key Topics Discussed:
✅ The journey from a cold start to multiple locations
✅ How the Turins balance business, family, and personal time
✅ Strategic financial decisions that made their growth possible
✅ The importance of maintaining culture across multiple locations
✅ How they track key performance metrics to ensure long-term success
✅ Their biggest lessons learned from growing their practice

Resources & Links:
🔗 Learn more about Tony and Kim Turin’s practice
🔗 Connect with Tony on LinkedIn
🔗 Check out the Education Hub at www.optometrywealth.com for more resources

Want to Work with Evon?
Curious about how financial planning can help you make smarter decisions for your practice and personal finances? Schedule a free, no-pressure consultation with Evon Mendrin, CFP®, at www.optometrywealth.com.

Enjoy the episode?
👉 Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite podcast platform! It helps more ODs discover valuable financial and business insights.

The Optometry Money Podcast is dedicated to helping optometrists make better decisions around their money, careers, and practices. The show is hosted by Evon Mendrin, CFP®, CSLP®, owner of Optometry Wealth Advisors, a financial planning firm just for optometrists nationwide.

Episode Transcript

Evon (00:04):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the OptometryMoney Podcast, where we're
helping ODs all over the countrymake better and better decisions
around their money, theircareers, and their practices.
I am your host, Evon Mendrin,Certified Financial Planner(TM)
practitioner, and owner ofOptometry Wealth Advisors, an
independent financial planningfirm just for optometrists

(00:26):
nationwide.
And thank you so much forlistening.
Really appreciate your time.
On today's episode, I am soexcited to have onto the
podcast, Dr.
Tony Turin and his wife, Kim, inand we talk all about how this
phenomenal husband and wifeteam, so intentionally cold
started their first optometrypractice, eventually growing
from one location to three andall the different lessons they

(00:49):
learned through that process.
We talk about how they try tomaintain culture and consistent
patient experience across thedifferent locations, what
metrics they're watching to makesure that their practice
locations are financiallyhealthy, and how they maintain a
careful but important balancebetween business and family,
even including a separate shortterm real estate business, as

(01:13):
well as other franchises withtheir kids and so much more.
This was a super funconversation.
I'll put all of their contactinformation and resources and
links in the show notes, whichyou can find at the Education
Hub at my website,www.optometrywealth.com.
And while you're there, feelfree to check out all the other
articles, resources, episodeswe've done and if you're curious

(01:36):
to know what it's like to workwith an optometry focused
financial planner, you canschedule a no commitment, no
pressure introductory call andwe can talk about what's on your
mind financially and how we helpoptometrists all over the
country.
solve those same questions andmore.
And lastly, if you've enjoyedthe podcast, please leave a
review wherever you listen toyour podcasts, always enjoy

(02:00):
seeing that feedback on whatyou've enjoyed about the podcast
and where we can improve it tomake it a better resource for
you without further ado.
Here is my conversation withTony and Kim Turin.
Welcome back to The OptometryMoney Podcast.

(02:20):
I am your host, Evon Mendrin,and I'm excited to have onto the
podcast, Dr.
Tony Turin and his wife, KimTurin.
Thank you so much for coming on.

Tony (02:29):
Oh, yeah.
It's an honor.
We're excited to be here.

Evon (02:32):
I am, this is the first time I've been able to have both
husband and wife on together,both involved in the business,
both involved in family life.
So, this is a new format.
Hopefully it goes well.
Hopefully this isn't the lasttime, but, I appreciate both
your time.
This is fantastic.
And I want to learn today, andI, hopefully the listeners will
learn today about both of yourexperience.

(02:55):
growing your optometry practiceand from one location to
multiple and how your differentroles have changed and, all of
the different lessons you'velearned along the way.
I think your story is veryinteresting and I think there's
a lot to take away from.
So I, I'm excited to dive inwith both of you and, before we
get started or as we getstarted, give us a little bit of
a background, tell us aboutyourselves, your family and how

(03:18):
you both got into eye careoptometry and, and into
ownership.

Tony (03:22):
Yeah, I guess I'll go first.
I mean, I'm Tony.
obviously you introduced mywife, Kim.
So, I mean, our story started,we've been married 20 years now.
So we go way back.
So we actually met in highschool.
Started dating.
I proposed our, her senior yearor her senior trip.
And so we got married at 20 and19.

(03:45):
So there's not much individualstories between us.

Kim (03:50):
16.

Tony (03:51):
Yeah.

Kim (03:51):
When I was 15, we met him and then yeah, couldn't date
till I was 16.

Evon (03:55):
Okay.
Okay.

Kim (03:57):
Dated for three years.
He proposed my senior year and.
We waited and shortly after Iturned 19, we got married.

Evon (04:05):
So a, a, a separate podcast episode will be the
secret to

Kim (04:10):
yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Certainly.
Yeah.
No, we feel pretty fortunate,but

Tony (04:17):
yeah.
when I was an undergrad, I wasgoing to school, kind of just a
pre med route and didn't reallyknow exactly what specialty,
what I really wanted to getinto, but Kim got a job working
for an optometrist.
And she just told me she's like,I, I think this is a perfect
fit.
I think you'd really enjoymeeting this guy.
So why don't you just come inand I'll ask if you can job

(04:39):
shadow on the days that I work.
And so sure enough, I'd go in onSaturdays.
And just kind of observed whatthe optometrist was doing.
really, really liked him.
really enjoyed the professionalaspect of it.
And then he was prettyinstrumental in just helping me
find my way into PacificUniversity and started optometry
school right about a year afterthat.

(05:01):
So it was a pretty quickturnover.

Evon (05:04):
So Kim got you into optometry.
Kim, what, what got you intoeyecare?
What did you like about it?
What got you into it?

Kim (05:11):
Well, I mean, it was just an undergrad job at that point.
And Saturdays, at the.
It was a Walmart.
It was for, an eye doctor thereand yeah, just applied at work
with my schedule.
So that's kind of, Um, what gotus started, but in working for
him I really liked the doctor.
He was great.
And he, you know, just the, thehours that a doctor and

(05:35):
optometrist keeps is, I knew forTony, not wanting to be a
surgeon, but wanting to do premed, but not really wanting to
do dental, um, and not reallyknowing a whole lot about
optometry.
I was also working for anattorney at the time.
I was like, definitely.
We don't want to go that route.
So.
So yeah, the optometrist was,was great.

(05:56):
And then, you know, it kind ofcame right at a time for
applications.
And, so it was like, let's justthrow it in there.
He didn't have all of hisundergrad, credits, but Pacific
does a degree completion programwhere your first year of
optometry school, it will also,give you credits for your
undergrad to finish yourundergrad degree.

(06:17):
So he had enough credits forthat.
But applied, got in, and yeah,it was pretty boom, boom, boom.
And I decided then when he gotin optometry school to, we, we
had to move a couple hours to,you know, the school, but I just
got another job, knowing that hewas going to be in optometry.
And I know not every husband andwife can get along in the

(06:40):
professional world too, but weget along really well.
And so, we knew that this wasgoing to be his life.

Tony (06:44):
Yeah.
So we kind of decided when Istarted school, she would learn
all she could about the businessside of optometry.
So she started working for areally good private practice
that was kind of in the localarea of where I was going to
school.
And so she learned tech side ofit.
She learned kind of some of thebilling and coding, the office
management.
That doctor still to this daysays that.

(07:07):
She was his number one employeeto this day, and he's probably
been in practice for like 40years.
So just a testament.
I mean, Kim is such a hardworker and very intelligent,
very savvy.
And so even when we started dayone of optometry school, we kind
of figured at some point wewould start our own practice.
And So we kind of learned, Ilearned the profession, she
learned the business.

(07:28):
And it worked out really

Evon (07:29):
from the beginning a little bit of divide and conquer
there and

Tony (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's a good way to put

Evon (07:34):
yeah, I do hear a lot whether it's in these
conversations or justconversations with clients.
The reasons for getting intooptometry and eye care is that,
it's healthcare.
It's fascinating, a fascinatingfield to work in, but without a
lot of the, the terrible hoursand the burnout of some other
professions, not to say there'sno challenges in optometry, but
there's more room I often hear.

(07:54):
There's just more room for lifeoutside of, outside of the
clinic.
and you have the opportunity toget into ownership and maybe
have more, more, control overyour, your time and, and the
career from there.
sometimes it's just they, it wasbetter than going to the dentist
as a kid, so they decided to gointo optometry and that's okay
too.
So you, you

Kim (08:15):
Tony had never been to an optometrist prior to school
though.
So it's just, he didn't evenknow what it was actually.
He has a few good stories about,misnaming.
We won't need to share the storyon, online, but, you know,
actually no, I don't know whatan optometrist was, but.

Tony (08:31):
Yeah, we'll say I messed up an obstetrician and an
optometrist.
It took me a while to kind offigure those two out.
And there's, yeah, put myself inan awkward conversation at one
point.
It

Evon (08:45):
right?
Right.
Right.
so it sounds like from thebeginning there was this
interest between the two of youof getting into ownership.
I mean, you could have gone allsorts of different directions
with both of your careers, evenseparately, whether it's working
as an associate, whether it'sworking as an office manager or
managing a location somewhere.

(09:06):
Why ownership?
Why was that something that youwere thinking about?
Why did you go that direction?
Mm.

Kim (09:12):
always actually on our.

Tony (09:15):
We weren't on the same page right off the bat.
I took a scholarship through thearmy.
So four years after optometryschool, I worked active duty
with the army.
And so during that time, Kim andI kind of would have pretty
candid conversations of what wasnext.
We moved

Kim (09:30):
from Oregon to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and that's where
he did it.
And so we knew coming back toOregon.
What was our, you know, what wasour plan for coming back to
Oregon when he got out of themilitary private or with

Tony (09:45):
So Kim had figured I'd kind of get on with a practice
and then maybe start somethingon the side.
Um, obviously just for thesecurity standpoint of having,
you know, somewhat of a secureincome, but

Kim (09:59):
We also had a one and three year old in the military and
knowing that I would help runthe business and I was being a
stay at home mom at the sametime.
The idea for me to come back andalso start and manage a business
while he was the doctor therewas a little over overwhelming
with a one and a three year oldat home as well.

(10:20):
So that was a primary factor incoming home, you know, working
for a doctor for two years orsomething while we kind of,
planted.
But he ended up deploying.

Tony (10:31):
Yeah.
So the last year I ended up,having to deploy to Kuwait.
And so we were separated forabout five months out of that
last year, five to six months.
And during that time, I was ablejust to skewer that they had a
library in a big businesssection.
And so for about six months, Ijust.
Put my mind to learning as muchas I could about business.

(10:54):
It was also pretty instrumental.
I guess Kim came back to Oregonduring that time and was able to
kind of, you know, peruse thelocal area of where we wanted to
be.
she actually found the locationif we were to start a practice.
And so it, it kind of juststarted this, Last year of kind

(11:15):
of discussing what it lookedlike if we were going to start
something cold and just go allin.
And I think it was on thatdeployment when Kim was home
that she also just got the urgeto just go for it.
So we started a cold practice.
fast forward, like when I gotback from deployment, we, that's
when we really had the candidconversation of just starting

(11:36):
our own business, going all in.
On a practice, it was prettymuch my hometown where I grew
up.
We decided to locate to, and soKim moved back two months early
before I got out of the militaryand just started the legwork of
the build out, gosh, all theequipment.
So we kind of, actually, it'snot even a joke.

(11:56):
So the day I got off of activeduty, moved back to Oregon, if I
wanted to, I could have startedseeing patients in my practice
like a day after just because ofthe work she had done.
So.
Yeah, she, like I said, I mean,she, she knows how to get things
done.
Chop, Chop, get to work, you

Evon (12:12):
that is incredible.
The intentionality you've bothput into it.
You're on deployment, you'relearning about business, you
know, preparing for this, Kim,you're doing all this legwork,
basically mapping out the, thebusiness.
So

Kim (12:26):
man.
We had to read all day.
The kids were, you know, buthonestly, I mean, deployment is
never fun.
And the, I have, we weremilitary, but not like true
military.
My best friend is in themilitary still.
Her husband has deployed 20 plustimes.
She has four kids, like thesepeople, like there is so much.

(12:48):
Like, I have so much respect forour military and what they go
through all the time, but ourdeployment, while it was not fun
to be with a one and three yearold, you know, without a spouse
and all the things was extremelydifficult, but it did allow for
The change of heart for me to beactually able to come back, kind
of plan and get ready and whathe could do in the library,

(13:12):
learning how to run the businessfrom the startup gave me a
little bit, actually a lot lessstress of having to do that
because that would have morenaturally in our relationship
fallen, you know, on me.
Um, but it just allowed forthat, like, okay, we have a
place, we have, I got acontractor, I got, you know, I

(13:33):
was able to do a lot in sixmonths here with, while he was
gone, while he was able tofigure out the business and
write a plan, applied forscholarship, like, there's this
whole Boots to Business programthat the military, You know, for
doctors or anyone actuallygetting out into the civilian
world to get, apply for thisreally cool scholarship.
He ended up taking third in thisbig old competition or second,

(13:55):
second, second, sorry, sorry,don't mean to discredit you,
second, you know, got, I think20 grand or something from the
military or the small businessadministration to help

Tony (14:04):
jumpstart

Kim (14:04):
it.
So there was just a lot that.
You know, we have a prettystrong faith, but felt that the
Lord just blessed us in, youknow, opening the doors to be
able to cold start our ownpractice that because of a
deployment, which wasn't fun,but allowed for, for that
process to start.

Evon (14:24):
so your faith was a big part of getting you through that
uncertainty, especially beingseparated at that time.

Tony (14:30):
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
for sure.

Evon (14:32):
So the, the decision to cold start, I mean, when you,
when you think about it and someof the conversations I have,
there's a lot of uncertaintythere with the cold start with
any new business.
There's a lot of uncertaintyaround, whether it will be
successful, although the bankswill lend you a hundred percent
financing.
So clearly there's statisticsare on your side, but, there are
stories where cold starts aren'tsuccessful or the uncertainty

(14:52):
around how long it takes to getcashflow positive and then to be
able to take an income fromthat.
Um, On top of that, you'remanaging a family and for many
ODs now, especially the comingout, they're managing a couple
hundred thousand dollars ofstudent loan debt and trying to
figure out what's the right wayto handle that debt in light of
that.
So when you think back to thattime, how did you both handle

(15:15):
all of that financial decisionmaking uncertainty around the
family?
What, what did that look likefrom your perspective?

Tony (15:22):
those were all questions we were kind of asking and
that's in a sense why, you know,the more secure route would have
been just to get a job workingfor an optometrist while
starting something on the side.
But we also, we've always been,we call ourselves very frugal,
but not cheap.
Like we're frugal in the factlike we only really tend to
spend on things that we find ofvalue.

(15:43):
And so even in college, youknow, we kept our debt as low as
possible, the military.
Obviously having thatscholarship helped.

Kim (15:51):
And so

Tony (15:52):
by the time we had taken a loan to start our practice, Our
business loan, honestly, wasprobably less than most of my
classmates student loans.
So

Evon (16:02):
Ah, wow.

Tony (16:03):
I think we, you know, even from undergrad, we were just
hard workers, like Kim said.
I mean, she worked two jobs inundergrad.
She was also a collegiatevolleyball player, All American,
so I lived off her scholarshipsfor undergrad.
So I would say we're, you know,we're hard workers, but we're
also just You know, have alwaysbeen able to live within our

(16:25):
means while trying to expand ourmeans.
And so we knew starting a coldpractice, like we didn't have a
guaranteed income.
And so we actually lived withKim's parents, which, you know,
how old were we?
26 at that time, 30, 26, 26.
So we lived with them for abouta year to save money.

(16:46):
and then at that point, youknow, the business did start to
take off pretty quickly, whichwe were very thankful for.

Kim (16:54):
Yeah, anything

Tony (16:54):
to add?

Kim (16:55):
Well, I just, yeah, there was all, all little things that
helped up, you know, getting thescholarship.
So no undergrad debt was huge.
No graduate debt was huge.
And then in the military, youcan save up, you know, paid
leave.
And so we took zero vacations,essentially for four years to
save up two months or so of, youknow, paid leave.

(17:16):
So when he got out, he had twomonths of pay still from the
military.
In his, you know, being in, inKuwait found out that Oregon
does, like for, again, servicemembers getting out, they will,
give you six months ofunemployment if you're starting
a new business within the state.
So there's just, a handful oflittle things that we were able

(17:39):
to find to help in, just stayingand then staying at my parents
house.
It just allowed for that firstreally eight months that we
didn't have to take an income.
So we could just put everythingback in to the business, pay the
staff, pay back the loans andeverything like that.
So it's, You know, we didn't,Tony drove the same Toyota Camry

(18:01):
he bought when he was 15 yearsold, all through up until really
five, six, seven years ago, Kindof thing.
So living, yeah.
And I would

Tony (18:09):
also, I mean, say we, we, we would seek out the right
people.
Like a good example is when wewent to purchase like all the
equipment, which is definitelyone of the biggest Biggest
purchases of a cold start, youknow, I sent off a few emails
and calls to like equipmentmanufacturers and just asked, if
they would have something thatwas very high end that patients

(18:33):
would notice, you know, at thetime, like automatic phoropters
were kind of new and upcomingand it could connect with the
lensometer and autorefractorlike OCT, like really high end
where patients actually willtake notice, but then ask behind
the scenes.
You know, the back office stuff.
If you could just, you know,create a list of used equipment.

(18:54):
Um, so even our purchase priceof things like that, we were
able to kind of balance out andfind the right person that
really worked well with us.
To kind of get us a blend ofreally nice new equipment for
upfront, and then help us tosave money on the back end with
things that just needed.
But no one really knows if it'sa$30,000 new, you know, security

(19:17):
system or if we're

Evon (19:18):
yeah.
So you, you spent up, you know,on equipment, for example, you
spent up where it would be mostimpactful.
And you were able, you werewilling to, to be a little bit
more frugal on the other partsof that.
and I would say it's notnecessarily frugal spending.
It's, it's just intentionalspending.
You're, you're spending dollarson where you most value it.
And, otherwise you're, you'renot.
And, you know, It sounds likeyou paired together your extreme

(19:42):
worth ethic, work ethic, and theexperience, especially Kim, the
work and experience you've builtup over the years with every
opportunity you can find to getgrants, to get scholarships, to,
find any little, littleadvantage you can get.
And you thought about the tradeoffs because not everyone would
live with their parents

Kim (20:01):
Yeah.
Or join the military.

Evon (20:02):
or join the military,

Kim (20:04):
the South, not my.

Evon (20:06):
I mean, one big trade off with a cold start or buying a
practice too, one big questionis should I, should I buy a cold
start or should I buy a house?
You know, that, that livingsituations often, a part of that
trade off is do you want toprioritize getting into practice
ownership first, building up thebusiness, knowing that you're
going to be a little bit morelean on the, on the, the living

(20:29):
expense side?
Or do you want to start with theliving side and then build a
practice when you can?
And so you, you thought aboutthe trade offs and were very
intentional about all of it.

Kim (20:39):
don't think there's a wrong answer.
I think that's just what fit us

Evon (20:42):
right, right, right.
So, you, you were crazy enoughto do a cold start, which is
Mount Hood Eye Care, correct?
And, and, and you got throughthat, and then eventually one
practice location became three.
Talk to me about that.
How did that transpire?
What, what became, you know, howdid you get to from one to

(21:04):
three?

Tony (21:05):
So, our practice in Sandy, Oregon, Sandy is a relatively
small community, small city.
And our practice grew to thepoint where we were losing
patients just because I wasbooked out.
Um, I was the only optometrist.
The footprint of our officewouldn't really allow us to
expand and run two doctors.

(21:26):
And so a big part of why wewanted to start a second one.
was just to kind of get selfreferrals out to like another
clinic and not necessarily losethat patient base.
And I had a classmate who was afriend of ours that lived in
probably the most adjacent townnear us or city.
And we had been on her foryears.

(21:48):
She worked kind of for acorporate entity, like a LASIK
center.
And we told her for probablythree years, like, if you ever
want to jump ship, you know, wewill start something with you.
We'll help.
You know, finance it will helpwith the business aspect.
You know, you just come in, seethe patients.
And we'll make it happen.
And so it was actually duringCOVID.

Kim (22:10):
Yeah.
She finally just, summer of2020, we said, why not now?
Broke the golden handcuffs

Tony (22:15):
of what they were offering her.
They were working her too hardat the time.
And so she finally said, let'sdo it.
So we started another coldpractice, probably 15 minutes
from our current, currentpractice.
And so, you know, it essentiallywas, We just tried to recreate
in a sense, kind of the same,structure and she would just

(22:38):
come in and see the patients,but we use the same server,
same, pretty much everything andtry to recreate it.
And so that was four years agoin April.

Kim (22:49):
Yeah.

Tony (22:49):
And we

Kim (22:50):
started it five, yeah, five years ago.
Then, you know, six or sevenmonths build out and all that.
So, yeah.
Just, yeah, four months ago orfour years ago, April started.
That

Tony (23:00):
practice has just taken off.
And it was a, it was atestament, like Dr.
Annie, we knew one of thereasons why we were on her so
much.
It was, we knew if she ever didit, I mean, any patient that
would see.
Come to see her, would tell 10people, you gotta go and go to
that practice.
So she's just an a rock star.
Any friend of ours that went andvisited were just like, I don't

(23:20):
know how you guys found her, butgood job.
So she's actually a 50% owner inthat location.
That was also something we hadnever really thought we'd take
on another partner.
but she was just such a goodfit.
We trust her.
She trusts us.
and so yeah, that one, that onewas kind of a no brainer.
We just knew doing it once beingthat it's a cold start kind of

(23:42):
risky, but the benefits, we justthought outweighed all the
risks.
And then the third practice wasactually a lot different.
it was within the same year ofstarting that practice.
We got a call from actually thatvery first optometrist that Kim
worked for in undergrad.

(24:02):
He called, called us out of theblue and he became part of like
a, there's probably 40 partnersand a big entity down three
hours from us that wanted tobranch up into Portland and
bought a practice.
And all those partners weretrying to manage this solo
location from afar.
And it just started to trickleduring COVID.

(24:24):
And so he called us out of theblue and said, look, we're
probably just going to closethis down.
There's no such thing as a lowball offer.
If you and Kim want to come inand kind of, you know, pitch any
sort of offer to us, we might bewilling to kind of just part
ways.
And so we, just kind of

Kim (24:42):
offered for the inventory more or less.
And yeah, we kind of bought that

Tony (24:44):
practice just for the inventory of the glasses and the
doctor there wanted to stay on.
And so that was also a big keycomponent was.
You know, to have a, a goodstaff optometrist that wanted to
keep that job.
And we would just take overrunning the business kind of
made that one test, just kind ofa no brainer as well.

Evon (25:05):
So you, with the second one, you took basically the
blueprints of the currentpractice, knew you can apply all
the same systems, processes,maybe all the same technology,

Kim (25:16):
vendors, technology.
Yep.

Evon (25:19):
it to the next one, knowing, Tony, that you weren't
going to have to handle the fullbulk of the patient care in both
locations, and, you know, Talkto me about deciding the
location of that.
You mentioned it was, I think,15 minutes from the current
location.
Talk to me about that.
How did you plan where to settledown for that second location?

Kim (25:40):
Yeah.
So Sandy proper, Sandy as awhole is kind of a, secluded
community.
So

Tony (25:49):
it's a pass through city.
It's a

Kim (25:50):
pass through.
Yeah.
I don't know if you've ever beenup to Oregon or, you know, kind
of at the base amount hood, butHighway 26 goes through our town
and then basically there'snothing between our town and the
next town over which is Greshamand so within our community
there is another optometrist butthey're just very part time so
we're the pretty much the onlyoptometry in Sandy so we didn't

(26:12):
want to start anything again.
in Sandy because it would only,you know, we're already here,
but we knew we wanted, and thenthe Gresham, which is the next
town over, which kind of fadesinto Portland.
It's just this huge, you know,kind of conglomerate of all, all
cities, but we knew that wewanted to start branching into

(26:35):
Gresham, but not wanting to loseanyone in Sandy.
And so if someone can't get intoour office for six weeks.
The next closest optometrist tothem would be, you know, at the,
at the edge of the next town.
So our 15 minutes away is righton the border of the next town.

(26:55):
So all of our, you know,overflow, we could get them in
there a lot quicker.
If they can't get into ouroffice, they're going to find
out who's the next closest toour town.
And it's again, us.
but then also being able to drawfrom a whole new pool of, of,
you know, patients.
So that was really our, and thenwithin the research and looking

(27:19):
through, you know, city recordsand all the things in this
particular location, we learnedthat a Chick fil A was going to
be developed within the nextyear and a half, in our parking
lot of, and so that was, for me,You know, primary marketing
right there, you know, like freemarketing, they literally have
to drive by their store.
So that was the biggest thing.

(27:39):
And during COVID, while it wasnot ideal time, obviously, cause
you never know what the worldwas going to do,

Evon (27:45):
Yeah.

Kim (27:46):
you know, rent prices, like everything started, you know,
going down.
And so for us, we're like, well,let's.
Try and capitalize on thisbecause optometry seems to still
be holding steady.
Um, so we got rent for a greatdeal.
We could negotiate pretty low,um, for a longer term as well.

(28:08):
So I think all of that, while itwasn't, you know, like, yay,
things are flourishing rightnow.
We, we knew that COVID would endeventually,

Evon (28:17):
Yeah.

Kim (28:17):
try to get in at that right time.

Evon (28:19):
So you, it was far enough not to cannibalize the first
location, but you close enoughto still send overflow to the
other location and you knew youwere going to get access to the
other markets in the other cityor the other

Kim (28:33):
That was the plan.
Yep.

Evon (28:34):
And, How do you, so you've applied that template to the
second location, the price wasright by the third location,
right?
So you essentially can treatthat as a cold start or a fixer
upper depending on how you wantto look at it.
It sounds like they're separateentities but under the same
brand.
So all under the Mt.
Hood Eye Care branding.

(28:56):
How have you been able to makesure that the, the, the patient
experience is consistent acrossthese three locations?
Knowing you may not be able tospend time at each location all
the time, you're not, maybeyou're not there all day long.
How have you been able to makethat work?

Tony (29:15):
I think a big part is just the culture and the people
really, I mean the people wehire, you know, I always said
that we want the friendliest,You know, staff, the friendliest
practice you can have inoptometry.
And so I would say from any ofthe front desk receptionists,
all the way up to the doctors wehave, um, we really just try to

(29:37):
hire just on a very warmpersonality basis.
And so I think that's a keything.
you know, Dr.
Annie, Dr.
Bong, they work for us, Dr.
McAvoy, very patient centeredapproach to how they care for,
um, their patients.
So I think, I think that's a keyone is just the personnel and
then just the culture.

(29:58):
And I think that goes hand inhand with the people you hire is
again, we, you know, we alwaysfrom day one said like a motto
of ours is we'll never sacrificelong term relationships for
short term profit.
And I think that's just beenkind of key is if patients come
in, you know, be in privatepractice, we might charge a
little bit more, but that's notwhat we're about.

(30:19):
We're there to kind of make thepatient experience as best as it
can.
I think it hopefully shows.

Kim (30:25):
Yeah.
Not, not running patientsthrough super fast, but a little
bit slower pace, but it brings,you know, Tony.
So all, all doctors, we don't doany techs.
All the doctors see the patientfrom beginning till

Tony (30:41):
end.

Kim (30:42):
And so

Tony (30:43):
for the most part.
Yeah.
Like I'll, I'll go up front andbring the patient back and just
start some of the pre testingwhile shooting the breeze.
And I think that, I mean, ittakes an extra minute, but it's
It's so valuable to the patient.
I think our biggest competitorsin the area are kind of MDOD
conglomerate practices where theopposite happens.
And it's, you know, there's areason for it when they have

(31:05):
five technicians and then Thedoctor spends, you know, all
three to five minutes with them.
We just tried to do it a littlebit different, where we, you
know, try to provide more timewith the doctor.
And I think all of us, you know,work pretty hard.
It does, you know, by the end ofthe day, you've spent a lot of
time talking.
And so it's kind of taxing, but

Kim (31:25):
it's also fulfilling.
Definitely things that some ofthe staff do, with some of the
pre testing for glaucoma workupsand stuff like that.
But for the most part, thedoctors are the primary with the
patient.
And again, it's not, it's notalways, we, we don't always say
like, we do it the right way orthe best way, but it, it works
for our town.
We're small, everybody talks,everybody knows each other, you

(31:47):
know, so it really helps in thelong term growth to have that
relational, part with all thepatients.

Evon (31:55):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I think you would hear a lotthe, the owner doctor especially
would want to delegate the nonessential tasks to a tech, you
know, so the optometrist canstep in and do the, whatever's
the highest and best use oftheir time.
But you're saying, no, you knowyour, your patient demographic,
you know who you're serving welland you want the optometrist to

(32:17):
spend more time with the patientand build, build a relationship
a little bit more and, and I'msure that extra time, even if
it's, if it's slight, compoundsover time, I mean that
relationship, is probablycritical.
You do a great job with thatpatient, that patient tells who
they know about your, yourpractice, new patients come in,
I, I'm sure it's a, a huge plusfor, for the patients that

(32:38):
you're serving.

Kim (32:39):
We consider it our marketing and advertising
expense.
You know, the little bit thedoctor spends every day because
we don't pay, we've

Evon (32:46):
Yeah,

Kim (32:47):
paid 0 for any of our practices in marketing or
advertising.
So, yeah, we rely heavily

Tony (32:53):
on word of mouth and that's a good way to put it is
that extra five minutes.
You either pay for it inmarketing or I hope that five
minutes buys you the marketingfrom that patient.
So,

Evon (33:03):
Yeah.
How, what is your, your current,what are your current roles in
the practice?
Sort of on a, like a day to day,week to week basis?
What, what does that look likeright now?

Tony (33:13):
so I just, hired basically out most of my patient care
days.
So we hired a really young, um,competent, awesome doctor that
works in our Sandy location.
Just this last summer.
We hit

Kim (33:27):
our 10 years mark.
And so, yeah, we hired a doctor.
So

Tony (33:32):
I'll see patients on Thursday and Friday and then the
rest of the days.
Just try to focus on more bigpicture kind of executive level
decision making.
Um, I heard a quote from JeffBezos basically stating that he
pays his executives to makethree or four key decisions a
year, not to make a thousanddecisions every day.

(33:53):
So I've tried to remove myselffrom kind of a lot of the day to
day decision making and put alot of that on, you know, either
the doctor and especially ourmanagers work in a niche
location.
And then just try to strategizefor, you know, should we get a
fourth practice?
Should

Kim (34:09):
we?

Tony (34:10):
Well, this last year we've completely pivoted and started a
whole different

Kim (34:15):
adventure.

Tony (34:16):
We started a franchise this last year.
So that was also, I kind ofneeded some bandwidth, but Kim
actually, she has more, youknow, I, I, I always say there's
like a, you also, you alwaysneed like a good leader and a
good manager in a business.
And a leader to me is.
You know, always looking at likea five year big picture kind of

(34:36):
sets the direction and then themanagers are, okay, how do we
implement this?
How do we do the day to daythings extremely well to get
there?
And I would say I'm much more ofa leader.
I don't like doing the day today things.
I'm not good at it.
I forget.
task after task.
If it's not right now, whereasKim is like, she can be so

(34:56):
methodical and her day to day isjust boom, boom, boom, boom.
And so efficient.
So she definitely has more onher plate day to day.

Kim (35:05):
If it was up to Tony, we would have about 2000
businesses.
I've shot down so many ideas,primarily because, yeah, I mean,
Tony is an awesome leader andthe big dreamer, like the big
aspect of, of everything.
So in everything, and I'mgrateful for it, we like make
decisions together because evenoptometry school, it's like,

(35:26):
you're doing the work, but like,you're going to school.
but I'm helping with the work,you know, like everything's been
a team aspect, but post school,you know, I've essentially
started the businesses with, youknow, the state, the feds, like
I've kind of have gone thatroad.
So he's like, let's see this.
I'm like, no,

Tony (35:47):
if it requires like a certain level of details, Kim's
definitely the one she was.
So she keeps our books.
She, you know, our, you know,every year our accountant just
mentions how much our books area dream to work with because
she's.
Again, she just kind of keepsthings in order and that makes
it, in my opinion, so mucheasier to scale as long as your
foundation is set and you kindof have a system that works.

(36:10):
It's so much easier to add on tosomething that's solid.
So I would say early on, likejust the work that she did and
kind of having a firmfoundation, it's just allowed us
to grow so much.
So.

Kim (36:22):
Yeah, I'm

Tony (36:22):
pretty thankful.

Kim (36:23):
And I think you need both.
Like he needs to dream, like,how do we want, he's like,
here's where we want thepractice.
So like, okay, I'll, I'll get usthere is kind of the, and of
course he helps in, in doingthat too.
But you know, usually there's alot of paperwork and admin that
get you to be where you need togo.

Evon (36:41):
yes.
There

Kim (36:41):
And so like when he, you know, all the staff gives him a
hard time.
So when we bought the thirdpractice, he'll like, he didn't
do a whole lot in the transitionat all.
And he's like, that was theeasiest one we did.
I'm like, okay.
Yeah, it really was, wasn't it?
You know, and all the staff, Ihad come over and like help move
and do all the things that paintand get all those systems or
like, you know, punch them inthe face because

Evon (37:03):
This is, this is why it's good to have both of you on,
because if it were just Tony,he'd be like, oh, it's the
easiest thing ever.

Kim (37:07):
Oh yeah, easy.
Anyone can do it, Yeah.

Evon (37:10):
Yeah.

Kim (37:11):
really, I mean.
All of our staff at alllocations.
And another key element that Ijust want to throw in here too,
is when he got into optometryschool, my little sister, um,
was also just going into herundergrad and all the things and
was like, what should I do inlife?
And I was like, well, here's ourlife.
You should get into the samelife.
So she, when Tony got intooptometry school for eight

(37:33):
years, got a job managing anoptometry practice.
And so then when we moved backfrom the military, she moved,
you know, to us and started ourpractice with us.
and really made that, that washuge.
She had eight years of allexperience of all things, all
the vendors, all the people.

(37:53):
She did that.
She helped with the cold startof the second one and the third
one.
So without her, and now she'sour insurance biller and coder
from afar, because she has kidsand family and all that too, so.
You got to have some key,crucial people that are, and our
managers at each location arevery, you know, strategically

(38:16):
placed and we could not do itwithout them in any way either.
So I just want to make sure thatthey get

Evon (38:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if anyone's familiar withthe EOS operating system or the
book Traction or the book RocketFuel, like they call it a
visionary and integrator andthey're critical, critical to
the practice, right?
One person is looking into thefuture, thinking about good and
bad ideas and, and maintainingbig relationships.
The integrator is the glue ofthe business, the one that

(38:45):
actually puts things intopractice, executes, and whose
important job is to swat awaybad ideas.
And, and, it's, it's, it'scritical.
And both of those combined arewhere the magic happens.
And it sounds like you're bothvery aware of where your
strengths are and where yourweaknesses are and how you
complement them.
each other and how your, yourteam compliments you and all the

(39:08):
things that they do.
And a couple of questions onjust how you manage it all in a
number one, how do you maintain,you talk about this culture,
like how do you maintain thisculture across three locations?
What, what does that look likein interacting with the team
and, and keeping that culture inplace?
I

Kim (39:25):
what got a lot harder as you expand.
Like, that's the difficulty ofit.
And that's where I felt Tonystarted feeling the pressure as
being the primary doctor in one,but not being able to keep up
with the culture that we want.
Annie is awesome, and she, buteven with the, like, dynamics
between different offices, youdon't see each other every day,
how are things going, blah,blah, blah, like, it does get

(39:48):
really hard.
And so that has been Tony'sprimary role, probably in the
last six months, hiring a doctorso he can be at all of them.
To make sure that everyone'salways on the same page, because
when you're not, you're not, andyou know you're not, and things
start falling through the cracksand stuff, so he's really taken
an integral part in that aspectof the practice, just to kind of

(40:10):
be, not even an overseer, butlike, yeah, an integrator.
And,

Tony (40:16):
In no way would we say we've arrived at, like, the
perfect formula at this point.
We're still trying to navigateit.
but I would say one thing that'shard, but it's pretty key is,
being that our Sandy location is11 years in, you know, it's
pretty easy for us to kind of goin and try to implement
everything.
But also we want them to havesome autonomy and kind of make

(40:39):
their practice seem maybe alittle bit different.
so it's kind of that fine lineof, you know, you kind of want a
system that's, always going tobe repli,

Kim (40:49):
repli,

Tony (40:50):
replicatable, um, but not so, I guess, stagnant that they
can't implement like our, youknow, frame selection at our
Gresham location as higher end,more unique.
And therefore like it kind offits their demographic, but a
lot of the systems are the same.

(41:10):
So I guess it's kind of findingthe right trade off of like,
These things are non negotiable.
Like we're going to do them.
This is the reason why, becauseit just works very efficiently,
but yet you can be very free andyou can kind of make some
selections, the design, thedecor and that location is very
different.
but yeah, it's something we'rejust trying to figure out as

(41:32):
well ourselves.

Evon (41:33):
It sounds like it started with at least one of you freeing
up more of your time to spendmore time at each location and
to be more involved in the teamat each location.
And what metrics are youwatching and looking at to track
sort of the health and ongoinggrowth and performance of each
location?

Tony (41:54):
Yeah, so we just started quarterly we get together and
there's kind of three things Ilook at One is the amount of
just doctor hours seeingpatients at each location The
amount of paid patients per hourthat each doctor seeing And then
the third one is just theaverage revenue per patient at

(42:16):
each location.
Cause I think those are like keyrevenue drivers.
You know, if we're booked outsix weeks and we only have 20
hours of available doctor timeat that location, that's a huge
miss.
And so we try to like navigate,okay, if this practice doesn't
have as much, you know, patientsper, um, on their books, we'll

(42:39):
pull that doctor and maybe addmore hours at our Gresham
location So that's a big one.
The amount of patients, paidpatients per hour is kind of the
key one, because if you reallypush that, I feel like the
quality of care goes down.
But if you're only seeing onepatient an hour, you're not
going to pay the bills.
So we, we try to find that rightbalance.

(43:00):
And right now I'd say it's justat about, if you can see a
patient, you know, two paidpatients an hour, I would say
it's kind of our sweet spot.

Kim (43:09):
2.
4 or something like that.
That's getting up there.
2.
4.
Cause you

Tony (43:13):
got walk ins, you got a lot of stuff.
So,

Kim (43:15):
yeah.

Evon (43:16):
This is somewhere like 20 minutes or so.
per, per appointment andsomething like that.
Okay.
Yeah.

Kim (43:23):
Yep.

Evon (43:23):
that's, that's an important one.
What else are you looking at ona regular basis?
Yeah.

Kim (43:29):
cost of goods.

Tony (43:31):
We keep, you know, our opticians, I would say they keep
track more of sales.
we check what we call like thewalkout rate.
If a patient has just theirroutine eye exam, how often they
purchase their glasses and theircontacts from us.
Yeah.
that's a huge revenue driver andI, I would say ours is, you

(43:52):
know, well within the average ifnot better than the average,
which is awesome.
It's a huge testament to ouropticians and managers.
So that one's a, yeah, thatone's always a key one.
Um, but we don't track that asmuch.
We, we let our opticians, wekind of bonus them.
If they sell more than one pairof glasses, they get a bonus for

(44:13):
each second pair.
So that's, I think what youtrack you kind of, or what you
reward, hopefully you get moreof.

Evon (44:21):
It's interesting.
You're the first one that youmentioned.
It sounds like you are to try tomaintain a, like a, a good,
revenue per OD hour.
You're managing sort ofcapacity.
Like if you have too muchcapacity at one location, okay,
let's bring that doctor over to,the other location and free up
more capacity there becausethere's more patient demand.
There's more patients on thecalendar.
So it sounds like you're ableto, to move around doctor

(44:43):
capacity, doctor hours as neededto make sure that you're
maintaining a pretty reasonablerevenue per OD hour and meeting
the patients where they need tobe met.
That's, that's maybe a, a prettybig benefit to have multiple
locations all within an areathat doctors can travel, you
know, back and forth to eachlocation.

Kim (45:03):
Yep.
And it's, and it's helped alittle bit, even in the last six
months, With Tony having moretime off at our primary location
with other doctors that haveeither had to call in sick or
like family emergencies wherenormally we would have to have,
you know, canceled the wholeday, called patients out.
He's been able to, you know,bounce around and or go back
into our primary office to coverAnd stuff.

(45:25):
So that has helped a lot in thatway as well.
So we haven't really had to loseany patients in the last six
months.
We're in, you know, years pastthe era of Tony's sick, like no
doctor's cover kind of thing.
So.

Tony (45:38):
And it's been really helpful.
So like our Gresham location, webuilt that bigger than any of
the others.
knowing at some point we'll runat least two doctors
simultaneously.
And so I've been able to gothere and kind of test it out.
What does it feel like?
It's like

Kim (45:53):
once a week to get the staff

Tony (45:55):
prepped for

Kim (45:56):
it.
So

Tony (45:56):
how many staff do we need if we bring on two full time
doctors there?
So in a sense, like I can be theGuinea pig and, you know, get
bombarded with the equipment'snot working.
It's like, okay, we'll figurethis out before we hire someone
on full time.
So yeah, we really.
Like where we're at and the factthat we can, kind of be creative
and, um, it's, you know, I canfill in the time and it's not as

(46:20):
costly to, you know, try to findone doctor that's willing to
kind of grow with us.

Evon (46:26):
So you've, you've gone through this through, dividing
and conquering from the verybeginning.
You very intentionally coldstarted that first practice,
grew from one to threelocations, have adjusted your
own roles in the business to, tomeet basically to create the,
the life, the ownership life andthe family life.
I'm assuming that you want.
Yeah.

(46:46):
What has surprised you aboutgrowing from one practice to
three?
What's challenged you the most?

Tony (46:54):
What's interesting to me and I don't know if Kim would
agree, but I always feel like ittakes the same amount of effort
and energy to run somethingsmall as it does something big.
So I would look back even thefirst year or two in business
and even though we were seeing,you know, five patients a day
the first year, I would, I stillfeel like it was just as much

(47:16):
work as what we have now.
Um, and I think it's a testamentjust we've grown a team that I
think works extremely hard.
So not all of it falls obviouslyon our plate.
So I've been very surprisedthat, you know, growth done well
isn't doesn't need to be astaxing.

Kim (47:36):
No, I mean, I would agree.
I, I don't sit still veryeasily.
And so if I didn't have thingslike with kids and, you know,
all the things, like if I didn'thave stuff going on, I would be
very bored.
I don't sit very well, withouthaving something to do.
And so for me, it's alwayssomething, you know, new and

(47:59):
exciting.
There's always something,something to troubleshoot
something.
And so the more practices, Idon't know if we do, this third
one was not an intentional wewon't even pretend to be like,
we're going to go for more.
This one just, you know, kind ofFell into our laps.
Cause I mean, just as a littlebit of a side note too.

(48:20):
We also have another businesswhere we buy and sell real
estate and I own and manage, weown and manage for short term
rentals right now as well, buthave bought and sold within that
a couple times.
Like you mentioned, we Justfranchise this last summer with
our kids, a Jamba and AnnieAnne's here in our local town as

(48:43):
well too, just because it'ssomething new and exciting.
I don't know.
We're probably crazy, but welike to challenge ourselves, I
guess.
I like to

Evon (48:51):
So A practice with three locations, a separate business,
running short term rentals,which is enough work in itself.
And another franchise.
I, this is a lot

Kim (49:03):
it's a lot.

Evon (49:04):
a family and,

Kim (49:05):
and we have awesome kiddos that are, you know, my dad was
a, an accountant and a, for amajor company.
And I dunno, just, I grew upkind of with numbers and how to
manage it all.
And then Tony grew up in anentrepreneurial family as well.
And our kids have kind of taken,to liking it too.
So for the most part, Our kidshave been pretty involved in

(49:28):
our, our business ventures.
And so this franchise was ourson's idea.
Um, he took a business class in,you know, his freshman year of
high school and really wanted toopen a Jamba.
So we're like, okay, let's opena Jamba.
And so, involvement in thefamily, we would never do all
this without the right people,without our kids wanting to be
involved also.
Our son is very dynamic.

(49:49):
He actually at the school day,he would probably pop up in here
and chat with you the whole timeas well.

Tony (49:54):
yeah, cool example.
Like, just kinda, like she said,I was raised in an
entrepreneurial household.
Well, our son, he came to usprobably about two years ago, a
year and a half.
And he just at the dinner tablementioned, he told us how much
he appreciates Seeing where wewere at, you know, 10 years ago
to today and running our ownbusiness.

(50:17):
And he's like, but the problemwith you guys is you didn't
start anything until you were30.
So he started the conversationof like, well, I'm 15.
What's keeping me from doingsomething today.
So in another 10 years, I couldkind of be where you're at.
So we told him, I want to

Kim (50:32):
do what you've done by the time you guys were 35.
By the time I'm 25, I'm like,okay.
The fact that

Tony (50:37):
you're asking that question, we told him that's a
great start.
So

Evon (50:41):
What was I, what was I doing at 15?
I

Tony (50:43):
I know.
Yeah.
He's,

Kim (50:45):
but he's always out to make a buck for instance.
I mean, yesterday he was at theGoodwill bins all day.
Like.
Buying just stuff and then, buthe sells it all online.
Like he just, he is always, youknow, I don't know, figuring out
how to make, he's a fun kid.
Buy, he builds computers andsells'em.
He taught himself during Covidin sixth grade and he is bought,
built probably, I don't know,eight or so computers in the

(51:08):
last four or five years.
And so he just has that desiretoo, which kind of drives us to
be like, okay, I can't let my15-year-old son.
All right.
I'll let him

Tony (51:19):
surpass us.
That'd be cool.

Evon (51:21):
I think that's, that's such a cool idea.
There's a lot of ways to helpkids.
We talk, you know, just in myconversations with clients, you
go on any of the online forums,there's a lot of ways to help
kids, whether it's financiallythrough school, 529 accounts,
Roth IRAs, just building upinvestments for them, helping
them, buying real estate so theycan live in it and then renting.

(51:42):
I mean, there's all these sortsof ways, but, Man, the direct
experience of helping them toown a franchise and work through
that and the business ownerexperience is, is awesome.
I mean, that's such a cool wayto get them involved in, you
know, they're seeing everythingyou're doing, but for your son
to then get involved and get thehands on experience, I think is

(52:03):
so cool.
I'm going to keep that in mind.
That's, that's on my list ofthings to look out for, for my
kids.
that's a good transition.
I'd love to ask you about.
Family life.
I mean, you're both involved inyour businesses.
I mean, you're all involved inthe business in some way, right?
You're even, your son's involvedin the, in a business there.
Where do you draw the linebetween what are the boundaries
between business and familylife?

(52:26):
when you get home, do you drawthe line to say, okay, we're
only talking about personalfamily stuff, or is it, is just,
is it all intertwined in allyour conversations?
You know, what, what's that likemixing those two together?

Tony (52:38):
I would, I would definitely say for us it's
intertwined and I feel like noneof us have a problem with that.
Like we all kind of enjoy theconversation.
I would say we do draw the line.
If, if we're getting phone callsor getting text messages after
hours, we're not doing it right.
So most of the time I saydigitally, like the outside of

(52:59):
our core family dynamic, like wedon't really have after hour
business, unless there'ssomething like if there's a true
fire that's going on.
Which does happen in the

Kim (53:09):
NEN oven.

Tony (53:10):
Yeah.
So stuff like that, we will

Kim (53:12):
take

Tony (53:13):
on after hours.
but yeah, I would say just asmuch as we're intentional on,
you know, costs we talked about,I say we're just as intentional
on Keep in a balance like we allhave, I would say, particular
hobbies that we enjoy doing,whether it's together or
individually, and we support oneanother in those.

(53:33):
Our son is awesome at football.
that's is like, that's right upthere with just about everything
else.
So even when we, Mentionedstarting a business like, Hey,
you know, we kind of expect youto help run it.
He's like, I will, but notduring football season, like
come into summer, like mypriorities.

(53:53):
So we understand each other'spriorities, expectations, um,
and we try not to cross those.
So we supported him more infootball during the season than
we did his business venture.
Carry the weight of it duringthat time.

Kim (54:09):
Well, and the beauty of like my role in all the
businesses is that I can runpretty much everything.
from home and I can have a veryflexible schedule.
So I don't go in and work at anyof the offices of any kind.
I mean, like the Jamba and AnnieAnne's starting this last
summer, I did a lot for like twoweeks.
My son was there too, actuallytold me he was there washing

(54:30):
dishes very frequently.
I was like, forget your day job.
I need dishwasher over here.
Cause it was so busy, you know,starting out.
So, you know, his motto at thatpoint was like, you kids too
working here, you too can go getyour graduate degree and wash
dishes, you know, But, um, butI've been able to have a very,
very flexible schedule.

(54:51):
And even with starting thebusinesses, like the kids were
like my son, our son was atkindergarten age and our
daughter was at three.
So I was still home with them,but like work hours didn't start
until after school.
So he was in the, With themornings, you know, and then he
could drive them to school onhis way to work.
So we just made that a thing.
And it always has been a thing.

(55:12):
He has always been home in themorning and, you know, in the
afternoon I'm home, I'm pickingthe kids up from school.
So I've been able to, we havebeen able to be very involved
with the kids, like you said,for football, we're at every
game, we're at everything, youknow, so we, we've just, While
all the businesses do take uptime, it's not sacrificed time.

(55:36):
It's time, you know, utilizedwhen we're not doing stuff as a
family, I guess would be.
and of course there are thoseemergent times it's, it just
happens.
But, for the day to day, yeah,business discussion will always
be a topic, whether it's ourcurrent businesses or future
businesses or anything.

(55:56):
That's just the way our familykind of.
Our daughter is far less, caringabout any of the businesses, but
she's a different, yeah, shedoesn't quite have the desire to
yet.
She will eventually, but notyet.

Evon (56:12):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
And as we start to wrap up here,any final bits of advice you'd
like to leave for the listenerthat's either maybe considering
cold starting or Thank you veryThinking about that transition
from one location to, to thenext, anything you'd want to
leave with a listener there.

Tony (56:30):
I would say, you know, you brought up a question, if
anything has surprised us, Iwould say one of the surprises,
just the fact that optometryreally can be very lucrative.
I mean, whether it was.
One practice or three, or ifyou're an associate doctor, like
you're going to do well.
so I guess you got to find a wayto kind of enjoy the process as

(56:54):
well as the proceeds.
know, it's great having a,whether it's a really high
income, but if you're working 60hours a week, is it really going
to be worth it to you?
So it's kind of finding, youknow, You know, enjoying the
ride along the way, which Iwould say we always have,
whether it was, you know, thefirst few months of a cold

(57:14):
start, you know, if we're notmaking a single thing, were we
okay with that?
Were we still enjoying life?
And now with three practices,like, is it too much?
Are we still enjoying our timetogether?

Kim (57:28):
So

Tony (57:29):
yeah, I guess just find some checks and balances.

Kim (57:33):
Yeah.
And just to, to touch on that, Iknow not every like marriage
couple like could work togetherand that's fine, but we are also
huge advocates of marriagesworking.
and so if you're not incommunication with your spouse,
All the time, that would be mybiggest thing of advice, and for

(57:57):
every business we've started, oreverything, you know, whether
business or not, if we're not init together, then it's probably
not worth doing.
If he's like, I'm doing this,I'm like, I don't want to do
this, and he does it, then I'mgoing to hold a grudge against
him if it fails, you know, soevery business we've started,
or, or vice versa.

(58:18):
It's like we're in it together,we win together, or we fail
together, but it's alwaystogether, so.
Maybe aside from business, no,like just make sure you're right
with your spouse before you doanything.

Tony (58:32):
That's very true.
Yeah.

Evon (58:33):
No, I, I've always thought the same as well, whether it's
cold starting, whether it'sbuying in any, any form of
practice or business ownership,the spouse has to be on board.
I, I've felt that way, even formy own business, because there's
no quicker way to resentmentand, and not communicating when,
when both spouses aren't onboard.
Cause it's hard.
I mean, there, there's nothingeasy about it, especially when
you're starting from scratch.

(58:54):
And if everyone's not on board,that starts to compile and
compound that sort of difficultyand, and resentment.
So I, I think that's such goodadvice from both of you.
and, and now for the finalquestion, when you think about
the future of optometry and, andfor this conversation in the
context of, of, private practiceoptometry, what are you most
excited about?

Tony (59:15):
there's lots of things.
I don't know.
It's just, it seems like such agood time to be involved with
optometry.
I, I think.
past, you know, there's kind ofthe ODMD kind of dynamic.
How's it all going to fit in?
And right now I just feel likewe're positioned to just take
the bulk of eye care.
I think ophthalmologists reallyvalue just the surgery

(59:37):
component.
So there's more patients outthere than I think any of us
could handle.
And so therefore I think privatepractices.
really can just positionthemselves to be the go to
facilitator of good quality eyecare.
So I think as a, as aprofession, and then just also
from a business standpoint,yeah, I, I think it's a great

(01:00:00):
time to go into private practicefor yourself or.
There's also probably a lot ofolder ODs that have been in
practice for a while that mightbe looking for an exit, and so
come alongside them, you know,introduce yourself if you're a
young OD.
If you have any aspirations ofbuying into a practice, I think
it's also just a perfect time,as a lot of'em might just want

(01:00:22):
to transition out of it.

Kim (01:00:24):
Mm-hmm

Evon (01:00:25):
Well, I, I've really enjoyed this.
I love hearing the story.
I love hearing theintentionality from day one of
just what you're buildingtowards both of you together,
how you're spending your time,how you're creating your roles
in the business to, to meet thebusiness needs and family needs.
there's a lot that I've evenbeen able to take away from.
So I appreciate both of yourtime for coming on today.

(01:00:45):
Where can people find and followand just learn more about what
you're doing?

Kim (01:00:51):
that's him.
I don't do social media.
Yeah, we don't do much

Tony (01:00:53):
social media.
I think I have a, I have aLinkedIn profile.
You can look me up.
Um, that's why

Kim (01:00:57):
we have time for other things.
Yeah.
We don't do much.

Tony (01:01:00):
That's probably why we're happy too, is we don't spend a
whole lot of time.
Um, but no, I would, I, I thinkI would like to transition more
into kind of more of a digitalfootprint, so.
Yeah, if there's anyopportunities, if you have any
questions for us personally,LinkedIn, you could put my email
kind of in the comment sectionif you want.
That's a good way.

Kim (01:01:19):
He's also taken on, so part of this last year in
transitioning now of being theprimary doctor in the office,
uh, you know, PECAA you heardPECAA he's the regional rep now
for that as well and taking arole within VSP.
so trying to get

Tony (01:01:36):
Yeah, I'm a VSP ambassador, so you could kind of
look me up through there.
Or in PECAA as well.

Kim (01:01:42):
Kind of transitioning into like the bigger picture of
private practice optometry,optometry to make sure, things
stay and get better in some ofthose areas.
So you can find him, in thataspect as well.

Evon (01:01:56):
Well that I will put all that, links to all that in the
show notes.
So for the listener, scroll downon whatever app you're using or
go to the education of ourwebsite.
But again, I really appreciateboth of your time.
This was a lot of fun for

Kim (01:02:08):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Yeah,

Tony (01:02:09):
it was our pleasure.

Evon (01:02:10):
great.
And, for the listener, reallyappreciate your time.
We will catch you on the nextepisode.
In the meantime, take care.